peace through genocidal tendencies
#beta-ptr-spoilers
hollow dock
uncut vault
They implement the boxes before they implement the voice lines themselves
this is just a physical letter
foggy abyss
Ofc it'll get audio later
uncut vault
probably not going to voice full things for each allied race anymore
foggy abyss
Would be a shame
uncut vault
rest of sylvanas' dialogue for the patch is in
including the zandalari induction scenario
tulip sun
Either way, I honestly like what she says.
zealous basalt
wat
tulip sun
What language do you play in? French?
tulip sun
Ah, ok.
gilded forge
@uncut vault I cannot step into zone, it is saying that transfer is aborted
ionic terrace
this build is pretty fun
can see dead people whenever, same with spirit healers lol
zealous basalt
Your heart
ionic terrace
and new KT can go at war with the city factions
zealous basalt
wait rwat
ionic terrace
not that my level 20 stands a chance lmao
vestal otter
" Ironspine Protocol: Enhance Hati's size and constitution, allowing mounting. (1 Min Cooldown)"
uhhhh
ionic terrace
wat
zealous basalt
OBOI
ionic terrace
zealous basalt
hati as a mount
gilded forge
@mystic heart did you have the zone bug, when you cannot step into Tanaris ?
mystic heart
nope 😄
jade basalt
What the hell, why does Hati get so much customization and toys
Can even mount him ?
uncut vault
zandalari got a unique run
gilded forge
my ptr is kidding on me
mystic heart
@gilded forge not only u
i saw here have same problems
foggy abyss
Finally fixed
zealous basalt
are those new animations?
uncut vault
Yes
uncut vault
well, it was just a slowed down nelf sprint before
dont have the mount yet, but diving steed got updated
tulip sun
That looks -amazing-
dense plover
that was the datamined model right?
tulip sun
Yes, I believe so
jade basalt
Yup
Only gripe with it is that the Direhorn model is from MoP, meaning they have paper feet
dense plover
cool
jade basalt
But it's not very noticeable
dense plover
i mean
its not as bad as fucking banlu
i STILL feel shafted
only class that had a base mount model from several expacs ago
tulip sun
I KNOW
tulip sun
I hated that they didn't make an update dmodel
Who says that Makoe?
OH MY GOD
LEADER REACTIONS
zealous basalt
OOOF
dense plover
:"Garona:
"You see what happened to Baine? To Zelling? That's why we need to lay low, keep our heads down, follow the warchief's lead. At least for now.
Baine's mistake wasn't acting against Sylvanas. His mistake was acting too soon.""
zealous basalt
dense plover
god damn
uncut vault
Overlord Geyarah:
"She is no orc, but the warchief shows strength by punishing that tauren who deceived and betrayed her.
Those who lack loyalty also lack honor."
nice
I like that shes not just following what saurfang would do
tulip sun
I mean, her viewpoint is reasonable
dense plover
^
traitors made slaves of her people
twice
once with guldan
and another with the lightforged
uncut vault
Im glad theyre not pulling full garrosh with all the leaders.
dense plover
my guess is Ji is actually doing something
the fact that they CLEARLY chose to include EVERYONE here
uncut vault
Minus Mayla, Garona, and Eitrigg, a lot of them seem more skeptical about specifics than the act of imprisoning baine itself
like, Talanji wants to make sure he gets fair trial, Rokhan's more concerned with how it will split the Horde than the act itself
dense plover
yeah, each has a reasonable response
lorthemar is worried about hurting his people
not to mention splitting them further
dense plover
hopefully they develop more on that story
uncut vault
if only she lived five feet away from a convenient race that relates to her people and doesnt serve the Horde
sighs in night elf
tulip sun
Baine is the one who convinced her to join the Horde.
tulip sun
So this probably IS concerning and yes, I do wonder
dense plover
is he out recruiting a race for the horde?
is he on a secret mission?
is he trying to make peace with the alliance via aysa?
summer cobalt
Baine's Horde
zealous basalt
Is he on a date with Aysa
summer cobalt
The pandaren are joining up the ally and horde XD
dense plover
especially in wow
zealous basalt
Oh yes
tulip sun
This honestly is really fun
zealous basalt
inb4 "where is my boi ji"
zealous basalt
my heart
jade basalt
Dangit Mayla we could've told you that a year ago you dummy
dense plover
i expect the older races to get them first
zealous basalt
"Alexa play despacito"
tulip sun
We went over this- it does make sense
foggy abyss
Don't feel like it
foggy abyss
Obviously, doesn't makes total nonsense
uncut vault
not all orcs cry about honor like saurfang
foggy abyss
Guess she's really different from Thrall
uncut vault
her actions make sense with her backstory
foggy abyss
I mean Geyarah does
cries about honor
the first sentence when u create a mag'har is
"STRENGH AND HONOR"
"BLOOD AND THUNDER"
tulip sun
and she states
Those without loyalty are without honor
So in her view, Baine has no honor
zealous basalt
owo whats dis
foggy abyss
Well
uncut vault
defending honor and crying about honor arent the same thing
foggy abyss
He's a way better fighter and way wiser veteran than Geyarah
uncut vault
saurfang freezing up because he hit an enemy in active combat in the back instead of the front is crying about honor
foggy abyss
Honor could be the current fairplay
Let's say that i personnaly i'm siding against Sylvanas
She's just note meant to be warchief
she's terrible at that job
zealous basalt
Yes
foggy abyss
She brought a war
zealous basalt
I call that survive
foggy abyss
For no reasons
She destroyed teldrassil for no reasons
She destroyed Undercity for no reasons
zealous basalt
She destroyed Teldrassil due Saurfang
foggy abyss
She blighted her own troops
For no reasons
Yeah sure
Saurfang lighted the balls i'm sure
zealous basalt
Saurfang didn't kill Malfurion
foggy abyss
She put the flame to Teldrassil not saurfang
zealous basalt
Saurfang's orders were to kill Malfurion
uncut vault
did you not read a good war?
zealous basalt
Without Malfurion, the spirit of the elves would have (in theory) broken
foggy abyss
I did
zealous basalt
And allowed them to just climb the tree and take them all as hostages
uncut vault
the entire point of their attack was "a wound that cannot heal", that was supposed to be malfurion
saurfang didnt kill him, so she had to improvise
and get something successful out of the mission
uncut vault
No, it very specifically wasnt, teldrassil was a tool against the alliance
foggy abyss
A tool that wasn't supposed to burn
That burned under some crazy Rage that had no reasons
uncut vault
"Darnassus was never the prize. It was a wedge that would split the Alliance apart. It was the weapon that would destroy hope. And you, my master strategist, gave that up to spare an enemy you defeated. I have taken it back."
zealous basalt
What crazy rage dude
foggy abyss
"You made life your enemy"
zealous basalt
You read but didn't read
uncut vault
that wasnt why she burned the tree
foggy abyss
"hehexd burn it make it teldrassil so burned black i might turn moraly grey"
uncut vault
she was thinking up her plan before she even saw delaryn
zealous basalt
ah, he is memeing
zealous basalt
He is memeing porter
foggy abyss
Half saying the truth
uncut vault
"A wound that cannot heal. Sylvanas needed to think of a new way to inflict one. There was no turning back.
“Why?”"
foggy abyss
See if Sylvanas's action were legit
We would all follow her
Whether the burning of Teldrassil was planned or not
It was unecessary
Anduin is a merciful king and she knew it
Peace was litteraly at hand
uncut vault
leaving darkshore with nothing to show for it would have lost the horde far more than burning the tree
summer cobalt
she committed a war crime
foggy abyss
It was a war crime indeed
And don't start bullshitting me with that "Well it's a War"
"Well it's World of Warcraft"
zealous basalt
I mean, what if it was?
tulip sun
WoW probably doesn't have a proper definition of war crimes
zealous basalt
Morals never win a war
tulip sun
or Azeroth I mean
foggy abyss
Time to earn some well earned Godwin points
summer cobalt
There's a difference between war and annihilation
uncut vault
Im confused, is it bad because it had no reason, or is it bad because it was a war crime?
because you're right, it was bad
summer cobalt
Yes
foggy abyss
Why is Hitler considered the worst human being by our current society if he just commited a mass genocide to weaken ennemies and racial individual ?
uncut vault
but it had plenty of reasons
zealous basalt
Horde and Alliance won't ever be at peace
foggy abyss
He's just a poor lad that fought to win i guess then
Don't tell me "But WoW Is a game"
zealous basalt
Hitler is considered that because our society keeps devolving xD
summer cobalt
To capture and control the tree had reasons, to burn it didn't
You're standing up for hitler?
foggy abyss
Teldrassil was just a way for Sylvanas to show her angsty teen needs
zealous basalt
And in either way, Alliance and Horde will never be at peace
foggy abyss
Thanks for not answering
zealous basalt
You can have anduin as a good boy (because he is)
foggy abyss
Point proven
zealous basalt
And what if i do?
But people would remember what the Horde and Alliance did to each other
It's an endless cycle of hate that each individual has
foggy abyss
Doesn't matter
summer cobalt
Imagine if Azeroth had its own Geneva Convention
zealous basalt
But it doens't
foggy abyss
It had no reason to happen
Teldrassil was too much
Taking the control of a city would've been enough
zealous basalt
If you can't stand such maybe you shouldn't have seen it
foggy abyss
Sylvanas is at war against life itself
summer cobalt
But imagine
foggy abyss
It's said everywhere
and it is the case
She will die wether she is a raid boss or not
zealous basalt
She won't be replaced
foggy abyss
And even tho it'll be a bad death
zealous basalt
She won't be a raid boss
summer cobalt
b e t ?
foggy abyss
Medling with old gods stuff
zealous basalt
Yes bet
zealous basalt
Against other leaders?
foggy abyss
Supported by edgy teenagers and angsty teens
uncut vault
they literally directly said, she will not be a raid boss, the closest to that is the PvP achieve she has right now
summer cobalt
I'm sure the Horde would love to have a leader tempering with a vessel for an old god
foggy abyss
It has always been that way
Sylvanas has always been bad
And i liked her for that
Now she's on that Kerrigan mood that gives me Big yikkies
zealous basalt
That's up to you m8
zealous basalt
lol these guys
foggy abyss
it's all of her personnal Quarrels
summer cobalt
She literally only uses her allegiance to the Horde as an alibi
foggy abyss
Precisly she wants to dominate Azeroth
Why would she feel that ashamed to join Talanji on her throne ?
zealous basalt
I mean, she already said it
She will turn Stormwind into her undead factory and raise the boy king for her service
foggy abyss
She's a lich Queen
Nothing more
A mad character that wants to rule death
Even the incarnation of death wants her death
zealous basalt
Just because a character developed in a way you don't like, it doesn't mean it is bad, just letting you know
summer cobalt
zealous basalt
gods, all your whine above about she being all mad and such
zealous basalt
Is just a hidden way to say "i don't like it, its bad"
foggy abyss
I don't like her
she's bad to me
ofc
The only thing that i don't like about the story is how MoP like it currently is
zealous basalt
And yet you want to prove the people here that we have to share your views
foggy abyss
The ending matters little if the journey is similar
zealous basalt
Which is not going to happen
foggy abyss
It's the point of an argument Kid
Giving opinions
Arguments
Example
while still being opened to others
zealous basalt
You are making an 'argument' that only you support, and 'argument' where you are late for months
summer cobalt
A point of debate is to enlighten and inform to the opposition as to why you believe your point, not to convert the opposition.
zealous basalt
But no one here wants to debate something that has been debated a lot
Over and over
summer cobalt
Then explain politics
zealous basalt
This is not about politics
foggy abyss
Then don't answer it yikes
I just posted my point on Geyarah's point of view
How i am Disapointed in the old Shaman / wise / Honor ways
zealous basalt
She is not old
zealous basalt
She looks terribly young to be honest
summer cobalt
I'm not saying that this is about politics, I'm saying that politics is something people will argue about ad nauseum even though it seldom changes
zealous basalt
And do you think she has gone throught the same?
foggy abyss
I think
zealous basalt
Thrall would have said something else
foggy abyss
she has gone throught less
zealous basalt
But as the same as thrall, Kham?
foggy abyss
Thrall lost his father and mother too
He lost a lot of his people through corruption
he lost Grom his best friend against Mannoroth
Lost His mentor Orgrim doomhammer
He lived in Human camps
zealous basalt
Made a human friend that then became an enemy
foggy abyss
He faced the wrath of the elements
zealous basalt
Became a warchief
tulip sun
I mean, don't know about you, but fighting for your people's very survival and losing your entire tribe, mother, father and planet to an enemy that forcibly converts you or kills you is a lot worse then what Thrall did o.o
foggy abyss
Thrall's people commited attrocities
and he knows it
As saurfang does
Saurfang is a veteran
He knows more than Geyarah
that's an established facts
zealous basalt
Who
uncut vault
geyarah is as old as thrall is
her people literally had a shadow council too
and the lightbound
tulip sun
No, technically she is Alternate thrall?
Not even that though
They just share the same parents
zealous basalt
...That somehow came to existance without we knowing
summer cobalt
wait wut?
zealous basalt
Boy didn't you do that scenario?
summer cobalt
no, i don't play filthy horde
tulip sun
and just because Saurfang is a veteran does not mean her views and opinions are invalid. Age does not make your morally correct or factually correct.
foggy abyss
he sided with the light
foggy abyss
@tulip sun War does
foggy abyss
And Saurfang did many terrible things he is aware of
tulip sun
I find this argument pointless. Geyarah is valid in her sentiment, there is no reason for you to try and discredit her. This IS her truth.
summer cobalt
lucifer defied gravity and fell back up to heaven
summer cobalt
War is relative
terse patrol
@uncut vault I still suspect Thrall is returning, and Geyarah will be Sylvanas loyal until Thrall aka her sorta-brother intervenes and talks her out of it.
(or she'll die in the rebellion)
summer cobalt
Brother-in-time
tulip sun
Wow
The forums are...actually in agreement!?
THey are saying they love them and that this makes SoO less likely
summer cobalt
SoS: Siege of Silvermoon
zealous basalt
That was actually scrapped
summer cobalt
that was actually a thing?
terse patrol
Siege of Stormwind is more likely for the end of expac raid.
zealous basalt
2 many sieges
fervent bloom
AU Garrosh except the mother is completely different
and we're not sure he's named Garrosh
fervent bloom
but I imagine if he ever does appear Blizzard will make it so
summer cobalt
so High Exarch Hellscream is hypothetically Garrosh 2.0
summer cobalt
?
dense plover
Does the alliance run any dungeons in their war campaign?
summer cobalt
i don't remember
uncut vault
not in the war campaign itself, no
dense plover
Ok
jade basalt
So we'll definitely see Saffy again, and she's working on something apparently. May tie into Mekkatorque or Mechagon. Or probably Azerite/the planet as a whole.
zealous basalt
Inb4 those two help magni
gilded forge
uncut vault
the letter shown earlier, looks like the other languages have a bit of a bad translation
this is much more Sylvanas sounding
foggy abyss
Seems like it
uncut vault
Kul Tirans were added to the embassy, were worried theyd stop when we saw DID not get anyone
Proudmoore Hydromancers and Marine Cadets
meager zodiac
im realy realy happy water magic is a thing, i dont know man i just love sea/water stuff, having a faction whose magic is almost always water based is so cool
tulip sun
@uncut vault Were Zandalari added to the embassy?
strange falcon
dense plover
Ok
So apparently everyone thinks post-Baine being jailed Rexxar is seeking thrall
Wtf is with people wanting green Jesus
Like
Can we not?
Plz?
meager zodiac
i just wanna see any more clues towards the darkshore final phase
dense plover
Final phase?
You mean who wins?
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Probably horde just because they have the location advantage
It’s much easier for them to get troops there
Just like strongarde is almost definitely alliance
For the same reason
meager zodiac
no? there is a wow head quest that leads to them winning
and a cinematic with a victory speech by tyrande
dense plover
You mean in the lead up to the warfront?
From 8.1?
Like, there’s no victory speech cinematic
There’s the empowered by elune cinematic
If that’s what you’re talking about
But that’s not future lore
meager zodiac
meager zodiac
have you seen that anywhere?
meager zodiac
there is nothing that shows that
dense plover
When the alliance do the darkshore intro
meager zodiac
it doesnt?
dense plover
That’s before terror of darkshore
The horde doesn’t see her ascension
That’s why in terror of darkshore she already has her new model
meager zodiac
her ascension is another cinematic, this specific victory speech is nowhere to be seen
genn greymane and mia are also in the crowd
it hasnt shown anywhere
dense plover
Yeah, that last version replaced the other one
That old one and the new one share the same file name
There is no other cinematic
hollow dock
Hold up
meager zodiac
watch it
its a victory speech seen nowhere
and there is a newer version with music
meager zodiac
it is not pre warfront, in what part does this play in the questline?
i have seen everyone go trough the quests, the warfront
meager zodiac
the speech doesnt happen a single time
hollow dock
I can't even say if it is or isn't
meager zodiac
its the ascension, boat, terror of darkshore
then you do the warfront
this doesnt happen a single time in the pre warfront quesline
meager zodiac
i have to laugh
dense plover
Rumor is it was supposed to be tied to winning the warfront, but they cut it because it was weird
Alliance likely, long term, won’t win darkshore
It’s just statistically not in their favor
meager zodiac
where was it cut tho?
dense plover
No, because they have to send troops from the EK
hollow dock
Orcs gotta dominate the woman race
meager zodiac
its still in the files a "darkshore finale" phase
hollow dock
Ashenvale is their ancestral home Peach
it shows reallyhow little you actually know this race
dense plover
Ashenvale was fucked in darkshore intro during prepatch
meager zodiac
dense plover
Horde storms through with an army
Ok
What about fuck undead they don’t get their ancestral home? Do I get to say that?
hollow dock
Horde gotta just keep dominating thenight elves
dense plover
We lost lordaeron, which was our own fucking city
hollow dock
You guys took away your own Ancestral home
Literally
just you guys doing it to yourselves
The alliance didn't plague bomb it
The horde did
dense plover
I’m not gonna argue story
hollow dock
SO again
meager zodiac
hollow dock
Fuck the night elves they exist solely to be dominated by the horde
dense plover
Comments are your friend btw
“This quest does not seem to be live currently. It might pop up in the future but it's seemingly tied to the Night Warrior scenario and since it's not at the end of that.. Also the reward for this, the Nightwreathed Egg that turns into the Nightwreathed Watcher battlepet, now drops from Alliance and Horde rares in the Darkshore warfront zone.”
dense plover
Lots of quests aren’t removed
meager zodiac
because you didnt even see the cinematic i was linking
dense plover
I was mistaken
meager zodiac
because you are proven to kind of an hack
dense plover
People make mistakes
meager zodiac
sure thing
dense plover
I don’t have to argue with you
I have a rep here
You can ignore that
That’s your choice
I made a mistake
meager zodiac
i can say a thing or two that are mistakes
dense plover
But there is no evidence this quest will happen
meager zodiac
but i will refrain
dense plover
There’s nothing on 8.1.5 ptr
I’m just explaining my reasoning
You asked “where is this” I answered “I don’t think it’s going to happen”
Stuff gets cut all the time
Thrall was originally planned to be part of the war campaign for horde but they cut that
There’s still some dialogue in the files related to it I think
Also, disagreeing with someone doesn’t make them a hack
That makes them someone who disagrees with you
People have different opinions
My opinion is this cutscene is going to remain unused
Especially since the quest reward has been repurposed
It would also be pretty strange to have a darkshore finale cinematic but no stromgarde finale cinematic
meager zodiac
because stormgarde has no story value and people barely even know why we are fighting there in the first place?
hollow dock
to be fair, considering how much they already fucked up darkshore, they'd fuck up it's finale even more
zealous basalt
Stromgarde was supposed to tie all yhe way to Gilneas
dense plover
To add to this, the darkshore final phase map is just the current warfront map with half the structures missing
I can link it so you can see yourself
meager zodiac
i was aware of its current state? i wouldnt link something witout at least taking a look at it
dense plover
The final phase map hasn’t been updated since early 8.1
meager zodiac
something you should like, take notes upon before talking
dense plover
I mean, technically it’s been updated, but no changes
You linked it using it to back up your point
But the state of the map directly reinforces mine
dense plover
I don’t think it’s going to happen, and they think I’m various unsaid swear words because they think it will
meager zodiac
and thing can be updated, but the fact is even that cinematic was first seen with no music, and then suddenly with music and its going unused? things can change any time but the breadcrumbs are there
dense plover
And because I goofed early on because the video wouldn’t load, they’ve resorted to slight insults occasionally
Music is often reused
Does that cinematic music appear in the zone itself?
Or in another cinematic?
I can’t listen at the moment
meager zodiac
its one of the warfront tracks, but if it wasnt getting used it wouldnt have been updated from the previous state with no music
hollow dock
It is why I just put them on block tbh
jade basalt
So apparently everyone thinks post-Baine being jailed Rexxar is seeking thrall Wtf is with people wanting green Jesus
Well to be fair, Thrall was originally announced as one of the main characters in BFA at BlizzCon 2017, next to Anduin, Sylvanas and Jaina. He was seemingly going to be involved in the Vol'jin's Urn questline, but it looks like he was replaced by the player-character (and Talanji).
Then again at BlizzCon 2018, at the Q&A people asked when we would see Thrall, and Afrasiabi replied that we would probably see him return soon. And then he, in an amusing tone, spent 3 minutes talking about how the Horde needs its Warchief back and such. This was with Chris Metzen himself, who had showed up by surprise, and Afrasiabi said there might be a wanted-poster for "Warchief" soon, and that Chris might need to return for Voice Recording sessions.
So it looks like Thrall is definitely gonna get involved at some point, and this is probably why people thought about that when they saw Rexxar's datamined lines. 😛
dense plover
Super unlikely
tulip sun
Let me dream :/
tulip sun
Use Rexxars?
tulip sun
How so
dense plover
His mask is his hair
And the armor and stuff is custom places (I think)
Not to mention he lacks most animations
Custom placed, not places
hollow dock
I've learned to just block Kham so they can have fun with their random comments that serve no real purpose. You should as well Peach.
dense plover
I don’t think Kham is that bad
meager zodiac
dont you have some bootleg chronicles to read?
dense plover
Lol
zealous basalt
eats popcorn
tulip sun
The mask and clothes can be removed though can't they? What do you mean that it is the "hair". I don't know much about this stuff o.o
dense plover
Great insult bro
zealous basalt
Besides
zealous basalt
Who the fuck cares about night elves
hollow dock
What he means Kham is that
dense plover
🙄
meager zodiac
not at you @dense plover , des
hollow dock
the mask is apart of the hair on themodel
if you change the hair, the mask changes with it
tulip sun
Oh, your not ignoring me anymore?
hollow dock
No I still am, but I see peach wasn't answering your question.
dense plover
Also, moknathal are less numerous than void elves by far
There’s like, maybe 80-100 total
hollow dock
Numbers don'tmatter for allied race playability.
hollow dock
They literally just excused a plot hole in that other blood and high elves
becomevoid elves
and that's how we see so many
dense plover
Blood elves are in the 10s of thousands at least
zealous basalt
High elves should all become void elves
dense plover
High elves probably number in the low thousands
tulip sun
Maybe it is Thrall and Saurfang then?
dense plover
But yeah, numbers probably don’t matter
zealous basalt
In fsct they should just release the skin for void elves and be done with it
dense plover
I suspect it is saurfang in some way, yes
hollow dock
I can accept a lighter skinned void elf
zealous basalt
Also whay js the chance of
hollow dock
that has a face tone attached to it that gives them blue eyes.
zealous basalt
Thrallm comjng back
dense plover
Maybe Zekhan has been starting a new horde group and rexxar is helping?
zealous basalt
Aa chef
hollow dock
depends entirely on Metzen
dense plover
A storyline is a lot less than warchief
hollow dock
He doesn't work for story anymre
Even if thrall became warchief again
he'd just record lines
and that's it
dense plover
Warchief means he has to do lines for expansions, world quests, etc
dense plover
I still think Saurfang will be warchief
hollow dock
it's just voices to record
it's SIGNIFINCANTLY less work than the reason he retired from blizz
dense plover
Oh, for sure
hollow dock
Because beforehe was head of the story and art division of WoW. That's what got him retiring
dense plover
Saurfang is really reasonable
hollow dock
Going in to record some voice lines would be next to nothing for him to do. BUt it's entirely up to him on whether or nothe wants to do it
dense plover
Baine is a bit out there but definitely a possibility
Rokhan or Lorthemar are essentially 0
zealous basalt
Anduin as warchief
dense plover
I mean, some almost definitely won’t happen
hollow dock
Why's that?
dense plover
Nathanos, Lorthemar, and Rokhan would be extremely unlikely
hollow dock
I would say it's almost impossible for the horde to go commit genocide since they wanted to be founded on different ideals than the first orcish horde
dense plover
Nathanos because he works for sylvanas
hollow dock
owait
dense plover
Lorthemar is about blood elves, not the horde
And rokhan May or may not be official leader of the darkspewr
hollow dock
We said the same thing aobut Sylvanas
that she was about forsaken
not the horde
yet here she is.
dense plover
Not to mention he doesn’t exactly have leader experience
Not like she wanted to do it
hollow dock
No warchief wants todo it
dense plover
But the only leader she actually respected asked her to
hollow dock
Like
dense plover
One of the only
dense plover
Fair point
tulip sun
I don't know why but I just can't see Saurfang becoming Warchief.
hollow dock
The very sad thing with blizzards current philosophy of writing their story
it's just whatever they think is cooler
dense plover
I mean, I think Golden is trying to fix
hollow dock
She's but one woman.
dense plover
But it was probably mostly written
hollow dock
and sadly
dense plover
The further we get, the more influence she has had
hollow dock
I don't think she'll have much impact.
dense plover
I mean, in legion, could you have said wow would have story choice, even if it’s barely consequential
In legion, do you think the horde leaders would’ve even had different opinions about Baines imprisonment?
dense plover
Not to mention the story we have been getting with Brann and Magni in 8.1.5
Totally unnecessary
hollow dock
Yes but it was cool to do.
hollow dock
Like not sure why you're trying to discredit this practice.
dense plover
We just have to accept that it’s going to take more time than anyone wants it to
hollow dock
It's just whatever they think is cool. Absolutely nothing else matters in terms of history or the like other than
"Why are they there"
meager zodiac
well it makes sense magni would have a bit of spotlight when they said azerite problems would take the stage in 8.2
spice creek
How ironic. We've got Azerite problems now, and when it fixes for us they get trouble in Azeroth. 😏
jade basalt
While that's generally true, I think there's some noticeable differences between the last couple expansions, and those before.
And I think Golden is a great addition. Keep in mind Blizzard writing is always going to be cheesy, and obvious, that's a given. But an actual writer can probably only be a positive addition, and is bound to be better than random quest devs. (Hell, Golden is the one who wrote my favorite line of Sargeras' : "Rise, Argus, rise my broken world.") 😛
They've also tried to focus a lot on the narrative and on weaving-storylines together rather than just dumping stuff like that (remember Vanilla? "Oh, an old god showed up. Oh, a mean serpent god dude shows up. Oh, a floating undead citadel's there.") They did mess up with Uldir on the Alliance-side, for some reason, but otherwise it's not bad overall, and they're fixing it in Crucible.
Honestly the most impressive effort I've seen on their part is not even in the game iteself, but related to it. The way Before the Storm is handled in relation to Battle for Azeroth is, in my opinion, perfect. Expansion preludes/tie-in novels are a very, very complicated matter :
-
They can't have too much "oomf". If all the plot is self-contained within that novel, then the players don't get to see it. That's very bad storytelling.
For example : War Crimes. War Crimes explained the entirety of the transition between MoP and WoD (with the Hellscream short story). All of it was self-contained (people also pejoratively say "locked behind"). So what happened? Well, players didn't understand a thing. From the point of view of someone who didn't read the book and only played the game :
Garrosh is imprisoned at the end of Siege of Orgrimmar > a few months later, the Dark Portal opens > a bunch of orcs led by Garrosh are invading > what the hell? -
The opposite can be just as harmful : if the plot is not important, then what's the point of reading the novel ? You could just skip it. That's also bad storytelling.
So how does Before the Storm fit into this? Before the Storm is "skippable", but it's also important for BFA's (future) storytelling. I'm sure many here haven't read the novel, and they don't feel like they are missing much at all. That's because it's true, though not entirely. Before the Storm was an additional layer of storytelling on top of the game's. It delved into the main characters of this expansion (Anduin, Sylvanas, mainly). Sort of like Illidan, it gives them enormously more depth and you understand them much better
(instead of just seeing 3 seconds of Anduin yelling Lawful Good things in a cinematic). Moreover, the game actually incorporated elements from the novel, into the game. The new graveyard in Tirisfal, that's a direct consequence from the novel. Calia, she is a direct consequence from the novel. So on. The novel had consequences, and relevance, it did matter, it wasn't useless.
But more importantly, Before the Storm's purpose was not only to develop BFA's characters, but to seed important plotlines for BFA. That's the cool part. Calia won't be an ass-pull, because she was seeded long ago in BtS. Same for Sapphorneta and Grizzek, they're directly from the book, then they were teased in 8.1, and now they directly show up in 8.1.5, and then they're going to be involved again. (And you can bet Sapphie and Grizz are in the game because of Golden's influence btw.) That's extensive development and strong storytelling, instead of characters suddenly appearing out of nowhere with some random purpose.
Welp, this was a bit of tangent. TLDR : not everything's bad. 
tulip sun
👍
terse patrol
@jade basalt Wait, isn’t there supposed to be an Alliance version of the Rastakhan dialogue?
Wowhead only has the Horde one.
tulip sun
Alliance one never made it to live
jade basalt
There's supposed to be a different version for Alliance yeah, unless it was removed.
Did Alliance players get there this week yet ?
meager zodiac
i think it speaks more about how they are trying to find a way to make the horde feel more invested in this war and see the alliance as a danger
tulip sun
I don't know.
zinc charm
i don't get the story at all Sylvanas is mad cause she cant reproduce and she sees her death is coming. because of this she has this set the world on fire I'm bringing you all down with me type attitude . Jaina has unresolved daddy issues which now she regrets. Anduin seems like a ten year old whos doing what he thinks is right but isnt sure and somehow Sylvanas thinks its best to side with a faction of jungle trolls we killed for an entire expansion to save the pandas from the sha and the mogu.. did i miss anything?
hollow dock
So first off, Sylvanas only had one goal before Cataclysm, Kill Arthas.
Kill the prince that killed her.
She achieved this at the end of Wrath of the Lich Kingand went to go see the body, sadly she saw Fordragon sealed up in ice with the helm on. The Lich King was still alive but Arthas was dead. She was livid at this but saw that she had no reason to keep living here. Her quarry was dead. To this end she offed herself by jumping off of Icecrown Citadel and onto the spikes below
Her next experience horrified her. She was in hell, a place of pure torment and suffering. She saw arthas there, writhing in agony with her. She feared that this was all that awaited her.
She was rescued by the Val'kyr at this point which showed her that she still had the Forsaken to lead, that she had a people still that would be wiped out without her. The leader of these rebellious val'kyr took her place in hell to allow her to be revived. The other val'kyr swore loyalty to her and the Forsaken.
Start up with Cataclysm and her new reinvigoration to preserve her people, she uses the Val'kyr to raise more forsaken out of Lordaeron's crypts and surrounding lands. Taking only those that were willing to be revived and wanted to live again. She even sought to slaughter the gilnean's to raise as forsaken and Garrosh purposefully told her that she was doing bad things. She rebuked with something equally true: That this was the only way to make more forsaken.
So she's told not to use the plague, of course she doesn't listen, and to continue her assault on Gilneas. Which drives the Gilneans into the alliance oddly enough.
She continues with her campaign into Southshore, bombs the heck out of it.
And we jump forward to Stormhiem and Legion because there's really no other points worth bringing up so far.
Which is her continuing her quest to give the Forsaken preservation in death as eventually they'd all succumb to rot and no amount of magic willkeep them together.
Alliance stop her, she's mad at them but as Warchief she sees that the horde, or parts of it, want tog o to war with the alliance
and ofc parts of th alliance want to go to war with the horde
She doesn't believe Anduin can keep the peace and she isn't inclined on keeping it either so she does a very bold move that is a pretty common one in our history, a pre-emptive strike to try and win a war before it ever starts
It fails, see Burning of Teldrassil, and now we're here in Battle for Azeroth stuck with her
dense plover
Yeah she made a whole bunch of decisions to accomplish a goal that went completely wrong
zinc charm
holy crap Des you need to do youtube vids that makes more sense than anything i could research
hollow dock
Nope.
dense plover
The fact that instead of trying to fix her mistakes, she is trying to accomplish that goal still, that’s the bad part
That’s the reason the horde story feels forced
At least partially
There’s a whole bunch of other reasons
No one standing up to sylvanas, no explanation of her plans
hollow dock
Im not getting mixed up with the bullshit that is the Lore community on youtube :v
zinc charm
lol
hollow dock
but yea. As for Jaina
hollow dock
She's always been in conflict over whether or not siding with the horde was the right decision
dense plover
Don’t ever watch pyro
hollow dock
time and time again she's been forcibly shown that peace with the horde can't be attained and has been royally fucked by them ever since.
dense plover
Siding with the horde to kill her father? Honestly 50/50
Not sure her father would’ve lived either way
hollow dock
She knew that the horde, under Thrall at least, had a chance at really turning a new leaf
dense plover
But I think she made the right decision at the time
Yeah
It’s only when thrall abandoned the horde and shoved garrosh to the top
zinc charm
yeah see i played WoW before WotLK then my pc fried and i finally got one to play again,,, sadly i missed a lot and because of that i went to youtube to try n catch up and all i could find is what i posted
hollow dock
but at the same time, her fathers words keep getting proven right as Thrall leaves and the horde slowly reverts to what it knew.
hollow dock
When Garrosh nuked Theramore
dense plover
We get garrosh as Warchief who actually does a semi decent job in cata until moo
hollow dock
that was that. Jaina was done playing nice.
dense plover
Mop
I mean, garrosh has honor for a period
He was a good warchief for the majority of an expansion
hollow dock
Jaina went full war against the horde, but sadly
dense plover
And then he loses his fucking mind
hollow dock
this news never reaches her home
Not that her home of Kul Tiras would ever actually listen
to them, she killed their Lord Amdiral
admiral*
essentially their king
zinc charm
yeah i saw that part
hollow dock
For all that Daelin Proudmoore was, he was still a beloved leader. The Iron Heart of the Kul tiran fleet.
The Lord of the Sea. To them, the Daughter of the sea was a menace and these ghosts came back to truly haunt Jaina as history's course made the alliance require naval power.
And what better Naval power existed than the Kul Tiran fleet?
zinc charm
true
hollow dock
So she heads to Kul Tiras to finally and truly face the deeds laid out not 20 years prior.
dense plover
Ofc, stealing was the only real option
Considering the inherent horde bias from the first war
hollow dock
Now for Anduin, if he seems like a ten year old, it's because he is legitimately only 20ish years old.
dense plover
Isn’t he exactly 19?
hollow dock
He's very young and naïve in histhinking, but at the same time it's the only thinking that'll getthe alliance through this war intact.
hollow dock
Now as for the Zandalari, we actually find out that Rastakhan gave Zul his fleet specifically to shut Zul up
and Zul was just being a complete ass
but at the sametime
the Zandalari fleetin theory could stand up to the Kul Tiran fleet
so Sylvanas plays the ever so wonderful manipulator she is and sides with him
for now
dense plover
Zul believed he could save the zandalari - until he was corrupted by ghuun
He just didn’t think it could be done with Rastakhan in charge
Hence the whole thunderking storyline
hollow dock
Saving him from the alliance Stockade along with Princess Talanji they rush to Zandalar to save it from the Alliance who are just offshore at Kul Tiras
Anything else confusing so far? @zinc charm
zinc charm
ok so now it finally all makes sense lol
dense plover
There’s a bunch of inbetween lore bits, but they’re mostly irrelevant to the current storyline
Mostly
hollow dock
I only pinged the important bits.
dense plover
Thunderking storyline for example explains the presence of the mogu on zandalar
But it has no far reaching consequences
zinc charm
but i still have a few questions. What happened to Anduins father? Where is Thrall at the moment? Why does everyone hate Saurfang and The tauren Chief?
dense plover
It wasn’t filler, it was the obligatory troll raid
Honestly it was very fun
And the story was great
dense plover
I think it was to tie in the whole thunderking thing
dense plover
Oh boy
hollow dock
the Burning Legion invaded the broken Isle
The combined forces of the horde and alliance, relying solely on intelligence from SI:7, went to counter the invasion
without knowing it was a full scale invasion
But sadly they would find out they were infiltrated and betrayed far to late
Once on the beach, they couldn't turn back so they pushed forward.
tulip sun
Perhaps watch the Broken Shore cutscene as well
hollow dock
going towards the legion portal at the former Temple of Elune to seal it up
Sadly, it was all just a trap
dense plover
Didn’t nobbel do a story of legion video?
tulip sun
Probably
dense plover
That recaps the whole thing
hollow dock
the Legions forces began to circle around the alliance and horde and the current warchief at the time, Vol'jin, was gravely wounded
dense plover
Cuz a lot of the stuff from legion still matters
hollow dock
Sylvanas was nearby and covered for him and she got the orders to not let the horde die that day
So she issud a full retreat with Val'kyr carrying the wounded off as she hurried to her own ship
hollow dock
The alliance never knew what was coming at this point and while many believe it wasn't intentional, it kinda was considering it was Sylvanas. Varian ended up sacrificing himself to let the alliance escape
dense plover
tulip sun
dense plover
XD
hollow dock
He'd have to watch it twice to get the full story
tulip sun
Give him the one seeing both sides, may be better.
hollow dock
when words only require 1 reading
hollow dock
that's why I didn't link it
tulip sun
People have combined them
dense plover
It’s edited
hollow dock
Anyways.
jade basalt
Twitter
dense plover
Watch the one Kham shared
hollow dock
As for why people hate Saurfang and Baine right now is because the horde is in a small bit of a schism.
Sylvanas has tossed them into a war that they are now losing and is planning to brainwash and toss in a sleeper agent in an effort to gain ground and destroy the Kul Tiran royalty to the alliance and instil her own little puppet
hollow dock
Baine obviously is very against this
there's no honor in such dirty tricks
especially using a son to murder their family
dense plover
For the Thrall thing, during warlords of draenor he challenges garrosh to makgora and cheats by using his shaman powers. He ends up being shunned by the elements and following the legion invasion, he goes to figure out what is going on. Then his hammer gets knocked into deepholm by a demon. He goes to get it, can’t do it, player gets the hammer. At that point on, we kind of just get told that Thrall has gone to find himself and reconnect with the elements
hollow dock
He tries to warn the alliance, Sylvanas catches him and well.
He's imprisoned for it.
That's on the PTR though so we won't know the full story until it hits live.
Now do you remember us talking about the Burning of Teldrassil and the hordes failure to win their war before it started?
dense plover
For the Baine thing, what he did is against the oath horde members take, and usually end with death, so Sylvanas is following protocol
hollow dock
Well Saurfang is kinda the reason why the horde failed
The plan was to kill Malfurion and take Teldrassil unburned
jade basalt
Proof that the Horde are filthy liars 😛
hollow dock
Saurfang did not kill Malfurion as he was instructed
See Malfurion issued Mak'gora against Sylvanas
honorable oneon one combat for leadership
to the death
Malfurion was about to win when Saurfang threw his axe at him, gravely wounding him
Saurfang saw that he essentially tossed his honoraside, something that this orc holds asprecious to him as his sons life.
He let Malfurion go
which is what caused Sylvanas to burn down the tree
to try and break the night elf people and all that
didn't work.
dense plover
Honestly it made it worse for the horde, not better
uncut vault
There was no makgora in Darkshore
dense plover
Yeah that’s what I was gonna say
uncut vault
Saurfang just saw hitting an active combatant in the back as dishonorable
hollow dock
So skip forward a bit and we have Saurfang in Lordaeron as the alliance try to take it for the hordes genocide at Teldrassil. He gets captured by the alliance and when offered to return to the horde
uncut vault
She wasn’t, in game stuff just sucked
She was evenly matched throughout ashenvale and Darkshore, and got a big blow against Malfurion before Saurfang threw his axe
hollow dock
he politely declined. Well as politely as an orc can.
So now he's running traitor to the warchief.
Which people also see as him throwing away his honor
jade basalt
No, Thrall did not cheat
jade basalt
He did not. Magic ain't against the rules, and it's not the first time it's used.
hollow dock
The ethics of which Thrall cheated or not is hotly debated. You can say he cheated but you can also say he didn't cheat.
dense plover
He had doomhammer
jade basalt
Garrosh had his axe
dense plover
Isn’t Makgora fist to fist combat?
jade basalt
Not necessarily
dense plover
Oh
hollow dock
Mak'gora, as far as I'm aware, is one on one combat to the death between warriors
jade basalt
And the rules can be adapted to each combat/person separately
dense plover
And we don’t know the specifics of the rules for that fight
jade basalt
See here. 😛 https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mak'gora
A popular misconception among the fanbase is that Thrall cheated in his final mak'gora against Garrosh when he used elemental magic. However, there has never been any rule forbidding the use of magic and spells. Moreover, there is precedent for the use of magic in mak'gora, as both Shagara and Ashra made extensive use of it during their mak'gora. Thrall had also already used magic in the first mak'gora between him and Garrosh, by throwing lightning bolts.
uncut vault
It’s usually specified rules, they never really explained if he did cheat or not but he was in turmoil over it regardless
dense plover
So it’s debatable whether he cheated
uncut vault
And only he would know if he did
jade basalt
He feels like Garrosh is his fault. He is disappointed in himself.
dense plover
The rest tho
jade basalt
But he officially did not cheat in mak'gora, there has never been any rule banning that.
jade basalt
I haven't read the rest but give me 2 seconds 😛
dense plover
And we really don’t know what he is doing now right?
hollow dock
Other than the side tangent those three went off on, is there anything else you're confused on @zinc charm
dense plover
Sorry
jade basalt
Okay, so :
- Thrall didn't cheat against Garrosh. There's no debate to have on this matter, he officially did not. It's all a misconception created by the uninformed fanbase itself, but no mak'gora rule was broken (and as I said, rules change entirely based on circumstances, or on the people involved, anyway)
- Thrall wasn't shunned by the Elements, actually. His issue with the Elements come from within, from himself, from his self-doubts, not from the Elements. He blames himself so much he has lost all confidence in his abilities, and he feels the Doomhammer was a dead weight in his hands. You probably have heard his dialogue, but that was what he felt. The actual reason of things was explained in the Doomhammer artifact book.
- The rest is all right !
dense plover
👌
zinc charm
@hollow dock nah you guys did great at filling in the gaps. see i started back with bfa. i made a demon hunter after making a monk 110. i did some of the content but made lvl 110 so fast that i hit a wall. im too weak to solo the dungeons but too high lvl to use dungeon finder so now im slowly going through bfa content
dense plover
Just do quests
hollow dock
👌
dense plover
That’s what current expac is for
Just follow the zones and the war campaign and stuff
zinc charm
OH and who are the two guys thats in the cinematic after you defeat Arthas in ICC?
hollow dock
Tirion Fordring and Bolvar Fordragon
Bolvar is the dude from the Wrathgate Cinematic
Tirion is just an old Paladin who has the Ashbringer
dense plover
Idk how military ranks work
hollow dock
The full life and story of him is pretty long though