I hope they redo the models (they won’t.)
#beta-ptr-spoilers
zealous basalt
indie is the keyword
zinc sandal
Blizzard is a small indie company, didn't you know?
tulip sun
I don't see anything wrong with the updated looks
hollow dock
@terse patrol the only differenceis that one is nude
the other isn't
Don'tgo about pissing gnolls that decided to put on pants
Also, these look like they'd be what HD gnolls in WoW look
terse patrol
They look like plastic.
zealous basalt
looks like hammered shit
the wc3 now that we are honest and without the rose tinted glasses
hollow dock
Also, why is plastic so bad?
It's a game. These are our toys. We've played with plastic before.
zealous basalt
like age of empires with the chess
hollow dock
hell. AoE looks like small drawings that move slightly and it's hella beloved.
zealous basalt
I call double morale
vernal tartan
zealous basalt
Lazaeris by chance do you play in Moonguard
jade basalt
The Reforged model is great, but yeah there's an issue in the fact that it has literally no hair. Gnolls are hairy. I mean, they're hyenas, they're supposed to have fur, as you can see in the artwork above. But the new model only's got hair on the face and back, it's as if the rest of the body was.. "flesh", or I guess plastic yeah, looks like a Diablo 3 demon's skin, when it's supposed to be all fur. You can see that in the concept art, it does have hair, patches of fur on the shoulders, arms, feet, so on. It's when they did the model that something went wrong. But this is mostly nitpicking I guess.
hollow dock
It is also just a render from the game. So when it releases it may look like it actually has fur.
jade basalt
It's the model they came up with. Unless they decide to update it, which would be nice, it's going to look like that.
People have complained about the Human Footman unit so it's possible they may tweak that one.. I don't know if people have made a fuss about the Gnolls though. 😛
zinc sandal
@zealous basalt I do play in MG
zealous basalt
I think I have seen you
zinc sandal
Where?
zinc sandal
Last night?
zealous basalt
yeppity
zinc sandal
Yeah, probably!
plain vigil
Rip dwarf warfronts sets
uncut vault
probably RIP warfront sets in general
night swift
Sounds like theres either no other warfronts planned or theres one in the works not revealed yet
Either way oof
uncut vault
I'm betting on the former, as the feature hasn't gone over the best, and heroic warfronts will probably be enough to get out the rest of the gear
strange falcon
As to why; it's not an excuse or deflection, but the internet in general is polarized and prone to extreme viewpoints. It's easier to express anger and opinions, more prone to argumentation and less about finding common ground or places of agreement, which you can see across a wide range of subjects. That said, the developers are learning from mistakes made at the start of Battle for Azeroth, a lot of work to correct them has been done already, and more will follow. There's still a lot to be proud of in Battle for Azeroth; Battle of Dazar'alor has had a great reception so far, and the expansion has a bright future ahead of it, with the majority of BfA activity still to come.
ion says
limber mural
honestly I don't like bfa that much and I can wholly agree with that statement
muted canopy
hollow dock
I love that everyone is hating on Ion's pretentiousness now
but made fun of the people he was being pretentious to when it was high elves :v
zealous basalt
Just proves his point further
terse patrol
high elves band together
jade basalt
I must say it's not surprising that a Barrens Warfront isn't coming because both Dwarves and Tauren already got heritage armor. Just more evidence that they want to give racial sets (aka either warfront or heritage armor) to as many races as possible, instead of just giving everything to a few races. If this is really correct, then my prediction is that the next races to get either heritage or warfront armor are :
Worgen, Draenei, Goblin, and Troll.
Now, I personally think that warfront sets will be given to Draenei and Trolls, while Heritage sets will be given to Worgen and Goblins, because these last two were already involved to some extent in the Darkshore warfront already.
So I'm betting that there's at least 1 other warfront in the works. If it does involve Draenei and Trolls, or Worgen and Goblins (or another combination of those 4, though it sounds less likely), then we're left to wonder what zone it would be set in.
hollow dock
the only other hotspots for contest I can think of us Gilneas/Silverpine, Eversong/Silvermoon. Unless new hot spots will shoot up in the next two patches. We know they won't deal with Eversong/Silvermoon for a warfront so the only one really left is Gilneas.
In which it would be nice for both Trolls and Draenei to get a heritage questline to link up the multiple factions of their respective races within the Alliance and Horde.
dense plover
See, I’m not sure that was a true statement
8.1.5 has a crap load of modified barrens warfront files
They have clearly been doing some work
hollow dock
Which Ion did reference as just them playing around with the idea, but not making much of it
dense plover
My guess is the system is getting benched if heroic warfront don’t work out
Yeah
But he said they were playing around with it early on
We got edits and a bunch of new files as recently as 8.1.5
I actually like the system
hollow dock
Which I do have to point out might just be grandfathered edits from them working on other warfronts or maybe they have a bare bones prototype of the barrens warfront to test out the heroic warfront system
dense plover
It’s unfortunate that people are so vocal if content isn’t difficult
Which just punishes the people like me, who like stuff like warfront
hollow dock
Might be the bare bones one. Barrens warfront being a sort of "Dev room" warfront so they can ensure nothing leaks through darkshore or arathi
dense plover
Definitely possible
I hope it happens
Barrens could use a touch up
Especially south barrens
That jungle is awful
I really hope heroic warfronts work out so we don’t lose the system
Also, not too surprising we aren’t getting one in 8.2; there is a ton of content on 8.2 with 2 zones, working on redoing a zone on top of that might be too much
Assuming heroic warfronts work out, I bet we get a new one in 8.2.5
What really interests me is where they plan to put nazjatar on the map
They could do it like argus, but then it’s going to be on both maps, which is a bit weird
They could put it on the world map, but then it’s inconsistent with expansion map design
I have no idea how they plan to do it where it isn’t clunky
strange falcon
imo they could fit a magetower-esque thing in nazjatar,as by how ion described the requirements for it
it could fit into the story of the zone "defeating azshara's generals" just like how we "defeated legion's generals" in the original magetower
so yes,lot of content in 8.2
hollow dock
the only difference I see between the two is that unlike the mage tower, the nazjatar stuff sounds more story related
strange falcon
that was an idea,not how it's going to work
(unless they do it like that,which means i'm a prophet)
hollow dock
I don't quite understand.
strange falcon
ion has said that they really liked magetower,but dont want it to be "just there for no reason" as in it needs to make sense,and i proposed a way it could tie-in with the 8.2 zone @hollow dock
hollow dock
Right. and I pointed out that I don't think that would work to well.
zealous basalt
They are starting to put builds up and resolutions to things, it seems
dense plover
What do you mean @zealous basalt
zealous basalt
I have felt that some events before were just put without a 'real' ending
dense plover
Such as?
zealous basalt
The mage tower?
Besides just "congratulations for completing it, here is your new appearance"
jade basalt
Eh I disagree with that example, the Mage Tower had a huge narrative behind it, from the tower itself and its construction in Deliverance Point, to each individual questline tailored around a set of specs and that evolved through the patches.
But yes they are trying to narratively weave things together more, including expansions themselves.
night swift
Yeah technically each challenge was a story
Like how healers had that whole assault with jarod shadowsong and some people from the town
hollow dock
I think what Mak was more getting towards is how disjointed it felt
to the Broken Shore
Which I think they'll rectify with Nazajatar and making it more self-confined to the zone, which I am very happy for. WoW needs more self-containing stories and not 6 month pauses in the story.
terse patrol
^
I’d love for them to do small scale things, checking in with characters or factions that don’t get much screen time.
hollow dock
I just want substance that doesn'y rely on payoffs for something that happened six months prior.
terse patrol
“Help Archmage Mordent Evenshade return to Dire Maul and find <artifact thingy> that could help the Night Elf civilians.”
hollow dock
Develop the Zandalari or Kul Tiran people more in each patch.
terse patrol
Or something.
muted canopy
six month breaks in stories can be interesting as a build up, for example the death knight class campaign from legion. but, blizz needs to remember we're paying monthly for this and don't appreciate breaks in their story telling
zealous basalt
I mean you can quit the sub and come back later
No one is forcing people to remain subscribed
dense plover
Not to mention, that’s why they stagger content releases
muted canopy
i'm not part of that loud group of people that says they'll unsub for hundreds of reasons but never do, so calm yourself there. i'm saying that for the amount of money you pay initially (unless you started after they cut the price so you only have to buy the sub and base) along with a monthly sub, it's kinda shitty that they stagger content as much as they do when you could throw down $80 on witcher 3 when it first came out and get as much out of it.
it just makes for bad story telling when it is a monthly subbed game
i apologize for the reminder that money is changing hands on a monthly basis, which has an actual effect on how the game should be released and updated ¯_(ツ)_/¯
dense plover
It’s a completely different style of game
The Witcher three has years of work behind it
Wow is constantly having new content
They can’t release the same amount of content as a singleplayer game
That’s impossible
Also, content staggering now is so much better than it used to be
muted canopy
well not with that kind of attitude
dense plover
Patches are bigger than they used to be
No attitude
It’s physically impossible
The Witcher 3 was worked on for 6-8 years
Wow expansions release every 2 or so years
You can’t expect the same amount of content
It’s monetarily unfeasible
Not to mention, money is spent in completely different ways
It’s impossible to compare a singleplayer story rpg to an mmorpg
Wow has raids and dungeons, and classes and all of that has to be balanced
strange falcon
it's like saying "5+years of work on a SINGLEPLAYER GAME thats been polished to hell and back"
take the same amount of time
as 1 major patch
in an mmo
like cmon dude
dense plover
In a singleplayer game, you can more easily balance everything because it’s centered on the same set of stuff for every player
Person must be a troll
Or crazy
Because their logic is nonexistent
pulsar iris
i'm not one to criticize the game as i still play pretty much every day. but i think it's kinda non sense when they say "oh we put kul'tirans and zandalari in 8.1.5 because we didn't had resources for that" when they have 300+ working on the game
dense plover
The game is massive
Secondly, kul tirans weren’t originally planned
They have an entirely new skeleton, which means it needs a LOT more work
muted canopy
get him! he's criticizing the game and the sheer amount of resources that go into reskins and rep grinds!
dense plover
And because kul tirans are a new skeleton, they decided to go back to the zandalari and work on custom animations
pulsar iris
but peach, i mean. they have 300+ people working on the game. is it really that tough to do new skeletons?
dense plover
Yes
muted canopy
well when they havent made a new skeleton in probably years (even vulpera are a reskin)
dense plover
Skeletons have to not have armor clipping, they have to work on all mounts, they need animations for hundreds of activities while also avoiding clipping with their own model, custom weapon and spell attack animations (or at least modified), and plenty of other stuff
Not to mention both races have custom Druid forms which also have new animations
pulsar iris
well, then they're doing it all wrong about armor clipping. most my characters have clipping issues
but i get where you coming from
dense plover
There’s always clipping, but for example, right now kul tiran Helmets aren’t working at all
They sit on top or above their head
pulsar iris
i just imagine that in a team with a few dozen people working just on new skeletons, it would take what? a month to get it 100%?
dense plover
And while they are working on these, they are also balancing racials, all of the shit in 8.2, the road for 8.1.5
You seem to forget they are working on the next patch, the patch after that, and the patch after that
If they spent a month working on one thing, nothing else would get done
pulsar iris
yes. that's why they have lots and lots of people working
dense plover
Not to mention, different people contribute different skills
And ofc the common turn of phrase “too many cooks spoil the broth”
muted canopy
he's not saying that all 300 would need to work on kul tirans lol
dense plover
More people doesn’t mean faster release
They hired more people so they could work on a variety of things at once
Focusing in on something will only lead to conflict
muted canopy
mrpeach on payroll or something? lol
strange falcon
@pulsar iris if you were keeping up with the models during alpha/beta, kultirans were extremely barebones up until launch
pulsar iris
oh stop sandra. slimes dont get paid
strange falcon
which is when they started to work on them
muted canopy
i just love wow so much i can't sit idle while people criticize the game
strange falcon
in fact,all their kool stuff like druid forms was after launch
pulsar iris
jk peach :p
dense plover
I criticize plenty about the game Sandra
But there’s a difference between critique and being wrong
You, Sandra, are wrong about how games are developed
strange falcon
realistically,of those 300 ppl,only like 10-15 work on the models/skeletons
dense plover
The Witcher 3 had 6-8 years of development. They can’t spend that much time on a patch
So ofc there won’t be the same amount of content
Which is why it’s an mmo
pulsar iris
yes. and with 10-15 people working on a single skeleton, i just cant feel it would take more than a month to get it 100% done you know?
dense plover
MMOs provide a different type of gameplay
pulsar iris
they can delegate people to work on animations, on fixing clipping, etc. i bet they do. it makes things go faster
tulip sun
I don't think you understand the amount of work needed for this stuff
dense plover
Johann, for context, the kul tiran male and female both have over 150 (at least) animations each
pulsar iris
working on the same skeleton but on different parts of it
dense plover
The issue with doing that
Arises when you have conflicting ideas about a resolution
strange falcon
a good rule of thumb is,you cannot say "they shouldnt take this long" when you dont actually know how it fully works
dense plover
Oh the arm is clipping, so we should make it move this way
pulsar iris
you're right. i should not. i just try to imagine
dense plover
But then another person decided to fix a different issue by moving the arm another way
strange falcon
like,my brother,which is 1 person,spends 2 work days making 1 single animation
10 people making 300 animations(male female)
dense plover
You have a small team of animators working on each model, so that the design is consistent
strange falcon
now you can see how that doesnt take 1 month
dense plover
You then playtest, find problems, fix
Repeat
It takes time
Sometimes issues crop up when you fix something so you have to try again
And again, all the while they are working on tons of new things for 8.2
And 8.2.5
And 8.3
It seems simple
Until you realize it can be disastrous if done wrong
strange falcon
also,those 15 people are working on the entirety of 8.2/8.3/mechagon, kultirans are just one of the things they do
dense plover
Slow and steady wins the race
strange falcon
not their focus
everything related to what you see characters do that isnt a background or pretty sights
these bois are doin it
pulsar iris
i dont think the same team that works on character models work on maps
but i understand what you're saying
dense plover
No, but the one that does kul Tirans also does zandalari, and the naga, and the mechagnomes, and other enemies
tulip sun
There are a lot of animations that are needed each patch
dense plover
And the animation team and the model teams are separate
tulip sun
Alongside these
dense plover
So if animation team finds an issue with the model, it gets sent back and when it returns, a whole bunch of animations have to be reworked
It’s probably around 40-50 people just in animations and skeletons
Then a similar number on models
Those people also model doohickeys and objects
strange falcon
and you can even see how hard it is for these people to coordinate,with how ToS turned out,with every team not talking to each other,and ending up with soak mechanics for every boss
dense plover
And the art team is probably the largest, since they have to work with ALL of the other teams
Providing feedback and sending things back and forth
jade basalt
The issue with timegating is that most people see it in black and white. But timegating can be well done, or it can be badly done.
The very purpose of timegating was to counter content drought, and it was very well received when first implemented. The WoD legendary storyline or Legion's Suramar content were examples of mostly well-done timegating. The 7.2 Broken Shore was an example of badly-received timegating, as you only got one 2-minutes-long quest each week.
So this is a spectrum to consider. Timegating can be really great when it's well done and when it's used with massive content, or meaningful content. But it can also become annoying if it's just to unlock 1 quest every 2 weeks for example.
Nazjatar will definitely have timegating, but with the massive amount of content that I suspect will come (honestly 8.2 sounds like a freaking perfect patch and I'm really hyped for it) I believe it's bound to be well done.
dense plover
Like, for context, those 300 or however many people are working on; the environment of Nazjatar and mechagon, the environment of the raid and megadungeon, the models for all those places, the texture of all those things, armor and weapons from mechagon and Nazjatar, new islands for expeditions, heroic warfronts, heritage armor for gnomes and Tauren and probably future races, the redo of goblin and worgen models, class balance changes, enemy models, boss mechanics for the raid and megadungeon, new M+ mechanics and M+ tuning, storylines for Nazjatar for both factions, voice acting for all of that, and of course any bugs they find while also improving the engine however they can
All the while they are still finishing 8.1.5, and starting on 8.2.5 as well as 8.3
The amount of content in each patch is a lot of work
And the rate at which it releases is very impressive
If you compare the final product of legion, and any singleplayer game that was made in 2-3 years, the quantity and quality of stuff in legion, is similar, possibly even larger/higher quality
tranquil steeple
(I have a feeling one of the two "quantity"'s you typed was meant to be "quality")
tulip sun
I am excited to learn more story
dense plover
Again, as I’ve said before, BfA is not perfect, it has a lot of problems, but they’ve openly recognized most of those problems and are making improvements. They are also working hard to fix most of the issues that a majority of players are experiencing
Titanforging for example isn’t going anywhere
But most people aren’t complaining about that
It’s the vocal minority
tropic trail
Titanforging is trash
dense plover
It was already significantly changed in BfA
pulsar iris
i dont think most people even care about titanforging
tropic trail
In tbc if you wanted better gear you work for it, now you can do lfr and get better gear than a heroic
dense plover
People don’t have time like they did in TBC
Secondly, the percentage chance of getting an amazing titanforge is extremely low
tropic trail
If you want to be good in anything effort and time is required, titanforging takes that away
dense plover
It used to be much higher in legion, yet people are complaining louder now than they did then
pulsar iris
people who get that better gear usually dont even know how to use them (like me)
tranquil steeple
having high ilvl gear doesn't instantly equal that you're a good player
as I've said to a friend who I do m+ with
dense plover
No it doesn’t, you get one piece, which doesn’t make more than maybe a 5% difference, versus the person who does M+10 has a full set of great gear and is definitely a better player
tropic trail
Before mop it did mean that you're a good player
tranquil steeple
I'd rather take someone 350-360 for a +10 (before season 2), but knows what they're doing
tranquil steeple
than someone who are 370-380, and constantly dies/screws the group over
tropic trail
Or maybe your guild master favoured you
dense plover
If you were a player who had time to farm gold and payed for carries to get good gear
muted canopy
i dont mind titanforging and quests giving raid gear, it gets rid of that whole if you dont put 40+ hrs a week into this game we cant have you along for molten core attitude
strange falcon
@tropic trail now,sure titanforging isnt a great system,but i'll give you a comparison to real life,IRL everything needs work and time to get,now what if you win the lottery. extremely rare indeed,
dense plover
The people complaining are the people with that attitude
strange falcon
also i raided every single day since launch in legion
dense plover
And it’s not healthy for the game long term
dense plover
Players have less time to play, and more games to play
dense plover
So they need to have reasons to keep playing, even if it’s only in bursts
pulsar iris
having higher stats dont make you play well anyway
dense plover
Yep
tranquil steeple
titanforging is at worst a necessary evil so people don't fall behind because they can't play all day
strange falcon
the amount of people with very high gear in pugs thats actually good is incredibly low
tropic trail
Should wow be for veterans or everybody
dense plover
Everybody
muted canopy
^
tropic trail
I think that casual players can be veterans with effort
dense plover
Gate keeping is toxic and doesn’t help anyone. It is the “if you aren’t good you don’t deserve to play this game and have fun” attitude
muted canopy
also gear can be as important as choosing a certain class/spec because "that's the meta" i got people in the 370s doing better dps than those in the 380s.
strange falcon
"blizzard: hey dudes,we got this really amazing raid,best raid we ever made--players: but we need to have been playing since day 1 every single day 5 hours a day farming hard,or we can never realistically get there--blizz:you asked for it"
dense plover
You are using veteran wrong
The word you are looking for is hardcore
And I don’t want to
I don’t want to have to raid or do M+ to occasionally have the “holy shit I just got an awesome piece of gear” moment
Me getting one piece at 395 isn’t stopping others from playing
I’m not taking their slots in raids
I don’t affect hardcore players in any way
And yet people get upset, because 1. They didn’t get the high ilvl piece and since they are a ‘better player’ they deserve it more than I do (elitist attitude) or 2. They think only the people who play all the time should have access to all of the content (gate keeping)
Titanforging in its current form is a way to give casual players that moment of joy from getting cool gear, and give players who don’t raid or run M+ a reason to keep logging on
It doesn’t affect azerite gear, it doesn’t affect weapons
The only part I think is shitty about it, is that random upgrades are the main way to get sockets, which is stupid, since no sockets means jewel crafting is worthless
hollow dock
What I mean @muted canopy Is something like War of Thorns to Darkshore warfront. Everyone can agree it was handled horribly and half-assed on both ends. We waited six months to see a payoff for Teldrassil as alliance and a 5 minute questline that ended up in just more waiting for payoff. We need less of that in WoW.
@pulsar iris Just to clarify; More people working on one project slows the whole thing down when it comes to programming. Especially in model work.
dense plover
100% believe that darkshore warfront was planned for launch with the arathi warfront, but last minute they shifted the story because they wanted to switch away from darkshore for a bit
Or maybe because they felt arathi was more visually impressive
tulip sun
Seems we won't be getting one in 8.2, si we shall see
dense plover
We aren’t getting one in 8.2 because people have been shitting on them for being too easy
If heroic warfronts work out, I bet we get one in 8.2.5
tulip sun
I don't care about the difficulty, lol
tropic trail
Remember when possible warfront locations were datamined like aszhara, barrens and eversong
dense plover
Eversong wont happen
tulip sun
The story and armor is good enough for me
tropic trail
I thought so too
dense plover
Redoing that is way too much work
tropic trail
About aszhara
terse patrol
I doubt we’ll ever see Azuremyst or Eversong redone
terse patrol
Feralas
tropic trail
The silvermoon datamineing was probably the Heritage armour questline
dense plover
Probably
It was also probably testing
Redoing silvermoon and eversong is SO much work
terse patrol
A Bloodmyst Isle warfront would be cool.
hollow dock
Like I said earlier today
dense plover
If they are doing that, my guess is it would be background work they do in their free time, independent of other features
tropic trail
They'll have to add it to the map if they do
hollow dock
The most likely place in terms of hitbeds is gilmeas or Eversong.
dense plover
And gilneas is way easier
hollow dock
Theres no alliance presence or even plans to go for orgrimmar.
tropic trail
Gilneas needs a rework
dense plover
It already has two sides, it’s on the same map
hollow dock
So Azshara warfront makes no sense
dense plover
And it would give night elves and worgen a place to live outside of stormwind
But redoing gilneas to be an actual zone is a lot of work
hollow dock
It is. Itd have to be a major patch feature.
hollow dock
Like darkshore and Arathi
tropic trail
We lost 2 cities maybe they will release gilneas as a hub city for next expac
dense plover
Barrens is the one I could see in a x.x.5
Gilneas would be something that would be like 8.3
terse patrol
Barrens coulda been Tauren/Trolls vs Dwarves/Kul Tirans. 😦
zealous basalt
You have to redo the leveling experiences for that
hollow dock
I doubt we'll ever see a barrens one.
dense plover
No you wouldn’t
hollow dock
And no you dont mak
dense plover
The current warfronts are phased for max level
tropic trail
I don't think there will be a kul tiran themed warfront
hollow dock
Arathi and darkshore are phased for max.
tropic trail
They won't do another cata rework
zealous basalt
Then what do you think of slowly redoing and phasing them?
dense plover
I think it’s the smart move
Leads to less conflicting story lines
Since as you move through, the phased zones only phase at story appropriate moments
Hell, they’ve redone some of the worst zones
Silithus, arathi
Darkshore was okay
But I like new darkshore more
tropic trail
Low lvl lvling needs to be revised
dense plover
Could’ve used the full overhaul arathi got, but it’s a much bigger zone so that would’ve been a lot more work
It already has been
tropic trail
Not just exp and scaling
dense plover
What needs to happen is they need to add a leveling talent tree
tropic trail
Like eso?
dense plover
Like artifact weapons but for your class as you level
You get one point
And by 110, you have filled out the whole thing
zealous basalt
Like vanilla trees?
tropic trail
Was'nt vanilla like that?
dense plover
No
Vanilla was choices
This is temporary choice
At max level, every fire mage would have all their traits unlocked
zealous basalt
Well, like the artifact?
tropic trail
Maybe low lvl professions can be made relevant again
dense plover
This way you avoid creating a balancing nightmare
Yes
Like the artifact
Exactly like that
zealous basalt
Minus the concordance
hollow dock
I mean
zealous basalt
I suppose
dense plover
But distributed from level 1-110
hollow dock
it sounds like it's pretty tripe to do.
Very meaningless
when all of that can just be done passively behind the scenes
and lead to less power creep
which is why we are in the situation we are currently in
dense plover
100% meaningless, but it provides the rush of endorphins while leveling
inland sorrel
I like eso CP tree theres so many ways you can develop your toon.
dense plover
Wouldn’t lead to powercreap if it’s capped at 110
hollow dock
Yea they'll not be doing that
tropic trail
Ppl will still spam dungs
dense plover
It’s unlikely, yes
hollow dock
what about 110-120?
tropic trail
Maybe give a point for zone completions
hollow dock
You get nothing there.
dense plover
Azerite necklace new system
hollow dock
That's not going to become relevant until they already get to level 40ish
on the HoA
dense plover
Assuming they don’t tweak the old stuff
hollow dock
So mostly while leveling (as currently with all the stuff it takes you to a max of 16)
you'll have nothing
So you'll need to extend it every time you add in more levels
which is the issue with the old talent system
tropic trail
New heirloom upgrades are coming in 8.2?
hollow dock
there isn't one.
Each one shoots yourself in the foot
that's just how it is with old games.
dense plover
More abilities isn’t the answe
zealous basalt
More stuff in the abilities
tropic trail
If they made leveling fun would that bring more subs?
dense plover
I mean, I like the things where you get ability upgrades as you level
pulsar iris
@hollow dock just to address to what you quoted me for. i work with programming. if it isnt organized, it sure does slow down production. if it is organized, it cant slow down production
hollow dock
Either you extend power creep, remove power from the classes just to hand it back to them in very trivial stuff that gets forgotten at max, or you remove it later on
hollow dock
Even when organized and you have 2 different deparments working on each others work
constnatly sending bugged builds to each other
yes
it slows down work as more poeple get involved
as they have to then be brought up to speed
assuming this is the ONLY project they're working on
tropic trail
I wonder if classic lvling would be any fun
strange falcon
If you're a masochist,you'll like Classic leveling
dense plover
Being told the area of your quest, having necessary mobs highlighted, low level mounting, not having to eat after any mob kill
Not to mention the old quest log and minimal suck
And the old region maps are worthless
Not to mention no mob tagging
tropic trail
But that would feel more realistic
hollow dock
You don't play a game for the realism
dense plover
^
hollow dock
Red Dead II really fucking shows it
strange falcon
Not to mention completely unhelpful tradechat
zealous basalt
You have simulators for it
tropic trail
Ppl make immersion mods for a reason
zealous basalt
And barrens chat
dense plover
Immersion isn’t garbage tho
hollow dock
Because a game lacks immersion to begin with and they want just a smidge more of it
dense plover
Classic wasn’t immersive
strange falcon
I really dont like rd2 because of an excess in realism
dense plover
It was clunky
hollow dock
Which is the issue of RDR2
tropic trail
Kingdom Come: Deliverance
hollow dock
you're notplaying a game
dense plover
^
hollow dock
People hated and based that game Arcane
some praised it I'll give you that
but everyone panned the fuck out of it
tropic trail
I liked it
dense plover
Gameplay should never be tossed to the side for ‘immersion or realism’. It means you lose out on making things fun and interesting
If you can’t do both, you shouldn’t
Classic didn’t do both, so they changed stuff
hollow dock
I happen to like Cloverfield and other horrible found footage movies.
dense plover
Wow now is much more user friendly
hollow dock
doesn't make them less garbage
tropic trail
I think an RPG needs some level of immersion, not 100% but at least something
hollow dock
it's just garbage I like
hollow dock
WoW has it. But you have to suspend your disbelief
dense plover
Voice acting, the way npcs talk to each other
tropic trail
Skills magicly learned
hollow dock
like you do with every other game
dense plover
But as Des said
hollow dock
Yes like D&D
zealous basalt
Immersion in wow
hollow dock
the most immersive game out there
dense plover
Skills being learned at a trainer was clunky
zealous basalt
Like i said a lot
dense plover
You had to go back to your city
hollow dock
and that's it
tropic trail
We have class trainers who do nothing
dense plover
Which slowed down gameplay
zealous basalt
"When a wolf kills a bunny because'
hollow dock
in D&D they don't even exist
dense plover
We have them for quest reasons
hollow dock
and yet D&D is massively immersive
dense plover
But yes
hollow dock
why do you think that Arcane?
dense plover
Mostly worthless
I don’t want to go back to that
Auto learning skills and spells sped up gameplay and allowed you to actually finish zones instead of constantly going back and forth
Monk is the real way to do it
Have a teleport to where you learn skills, then a teleport back
tropic trail
But constanly going back and forth made you play for longer
hollow dock
Yea and it made you burn out quicker
strange falcon
🍿 mate,des and Peach Specialize in the forbidden arts of FACTS AND LOGIC they have a +15 buff to their Armor class
dense plover
With class halls, they 100% could re add some of that concept
dense plover
Flexes lore muscles
dense plover
More voice acting
hollow dock
and even your mind checmical trick
Is have the monk quest stuff
extended to everyone
dense plover
Yeah
tropic trail
Exp buff?
hollow dock
Where you go back, fight a master as training and "learn" your skills
get a bonus for a small amount of time
and bam
dense plover
Have you teleport to your class hall
hollow dock
that's actually what one of my DMs do everytime our party levels up
tropic trail
Use [Polymorph] on approaching target 10% exp buff for 1 hr
hollow dock
when we go to sleep we're ported into the Spirit Realm where a bunch of dead masters have trials set up for us to test our abilities
zealous basalt
Hu ha
tropic trail
So inns will have relevence?
tropic trail
Besides hearthstones
hollow dock
you can't get that anywhere else
tropic trail
Oh yeah, forgot about that
hollow dock
If you want to log off for the night, you're always rewarded for finding the inn and logging out there
you even skip the 10 seconds to wait for log off if you go there
tropic trail
Yes, by not waiting 10 seconds to switch alts
hollow dock
they'll always be relevant
pulsar iris
oh ptr is updating. new build incoming?
nvm. it was nothing
got trolled by the launcher
muted canopy
dense plover
It’s been updating daily
Lots of cdn updates
They’re essentially behind the scenes data stuff
mystic heart
@dense plover but we havent notification about this
probably they prepare smth tomorrow
i hope 😄
uncut vault
I’m just waiting for them to fix the “no realms available” problem, friend of mine has had it for a week
inner copper
any new mounts added to the ptr?
inner copper
cool
strange falcon
from only method streaming mythic prog in uldir,now EVERYONE is streaming it
oof people,have a bit more class in trend following
hollow dock
What are you complaining about exactly? :?
No one wanted to infear of giving advantages in the race, we now see it doesn't matter so people now stream it.
gilded forge
Did ptr get an update ?
mystic heart
@gilded forge nope
dense plover
Still really early
It’s not even noon pst, and builds usually go out around 3 at the earliest
inner copper
Anyone find the horde armor Stan Lee yet?
royal orchid
yeah, new build - 29220
vestal otter
going to assume servers are down right?
royal orchid
yes
ionic terrace
chonky, 1.15gb
royal orchid
hope we get some new kultiran faces
ionic terrace
Hope KT/Zand can use actual mounts lol
vestal otter
that^
ionic terrace
they said they fixed it with the last build but nooooo
vestal otter
they fixed it the Blizzard way
royal orchid
Hogrus, Swine of Good Fortune
Hogrus was first seen by Emperor Shaohao on the third day of his meditation, and is considered by the Pandaren to be a sign of good fortune to come to those who take action.
In-Game Shop
summer cobalt
zealous basalt
whats wrong?
royal orchid
wasn't this like the dog one, promotion in china and shop for the rest?
tulip sun
Ya
zealous basalt
Ye
tulip sun
I don't see anything wrong with it
zealous basalt
6 month stuff for china
ionic terrace
well if they keep doing this, here's what's next
royal orchid
would be happy to get it with 6 month but i would never pay for that
zealous basalt
fuck
ionic terrace
Starting from rat for 2020
zealous basalt
why can't we get the dragon
ionic terrace
I want my rabbit
royal orchid
rat, ox and tiger mounts are already ingame, so nothing that special with them, but rabbit, snake monkey mounts
zealous basalt
i want my drago
uncut vault
hopefully removing the zandalari and kul tiran borders from northrend
dense plover
But they did do some world map stuff
dense plover
Arathi, the two brawlers guilds, the other redone arena
Now get the brawlers guild ones
ionic terrace
ooh nice
mystic heart
Ah kk thanks I as always wanna go sleep and look in discord and here is update
dense plover
Bunch of items tagged plundered X for each slot
Creates gear
Island expedition loot)
?
zealous basalt
hax
dense plover
It’s in the db
There’s also a horde glider in the db
I assume alliance has one as well
Yep
New toy probably
Since we haven’t had a glider yet
Also a bunch of items for using with Hati
It’s not just the return of Hati, they are adding some new thingies
Kul Tiran flagship is officially Tiffins Melody
dense plover
GMOD is now a flying mount
It was just kul tiran flagship b4
Spirit of echero is now a flying mount
vestal otter
i wish lol
zealous basalt
NICE
vestal otter
spirit of echero flying mount..
vestal otter
WAIT WHAT
dense plover
Yeah, GMOD and echero are both flying mounts now
vestal otter
time to use that
uncut vault
oh if theyre renaming it, chances are thats for actually having the phase name change based on your choice
tulip sun
Raal DC location in zandalar? What is that
dense plover
The Kul tiran flagship is the one that goes from stormwind to stormsong?
When does that happen...
tulip sun
The end
dense plover
Oh
tulip sun
You go and present it to the alliance leadership
dense plover
Do you get to choose the name?
Because if so, yes they are probably making that a thing
uncut vault
yes, brother pike, katherine, tandred, and rosaline each offer a name
dense plover
Is one Tiffins Melody?
uncut vault
Dawnbreaker, Anduin's Wrath, Tiffin's Melody, and one other I cant remember
dense plover
Ah ok
zealous basalt
what are you talking about
dense plover
Yes it seems like that is what’s happening
tulip sun
Katherine offers Tiffin's Melody
dense plover
WIP
tulip sun
This must be an extremely powerful ship as well
zealous basalt
Whatchu all talkin bouut
tulip sun
Because they literally present it to the entire Alliance leadership
zealous basalt
Kham
tulip sun
The KT flagship thing
zealous basalt
Where do you name it?
uncut vault
stormsong
mystic heart
for unlock kul tirans
zealous basalt
Ohh
uncut vault
either right before or after brother pike blesses it
mystic heart
btw i think they added another languages for VO
dense plover
servers still down?
mystic heart
yea
tulip sun
That seems like an awful lot xD
dense plover
FYI loads of animations were edited this build
tulip sun
How do you get loremaster?
dense plover
do all the zone quests
its required for the end quest
with the cutscene
and scenario
not just zanda and KT anims
zealous basalt
basically both require to know the shit going on
dense plover
also female blood elves, female night elves, female gnomes, some forsaken dreadguard anims
tulip sun
Ya
uncut vault
minus the raid, weirdly. Which makes sense for kul tirans, not so much for zandalari.
I get why its not required from a "we dont want to require a raid" but
tulip sun
The achievments are fine.
dense plover
uncut vault
would have made up for the mythic requirement that kul tirans have
dense plover
zanda flight form has a modified model and skin
tulip sun
Mythic requirement?
tulip sun
NEW MODEL?
dense plover
[ADDED] creature/druidflightzandalaritroll_noarmor/druidflightzandalaritroll_noarmor.blp
so idk
tulip sun
Like a completely unique one?
dense plover
my guess is alt color
uncut vault
the zandalari storyline just requires completing the zone and doing a scenario
but the jaina story requires doing mythic dungeons
and 120
mystic heart
world/maps/2177/2177.tex???????
uncut vault
so requiring the horde to do at least LFR battle of dazaralor would have evened the playing field IMO
mystic heart
😄
uncut vault
because rastakhans death is pretty vital story
considering their recruitment scenario is talanjis coronation
dense plover
the kul tiras united thing
mystic heart
servers up
dense plover
that doesnt require rescuing jaina
ionic terrace
Didn't they add SoB heroic tho
uncut vault
a nation united is the end of the jaina story
zealous basalt
Seriously tho
uncut vault
the final quest is the turn in at unity square
zealous basalt
I don't think people would cry now about getting the reps
uncut vault
No, it isnt, thats part of leveling in tiragarde
zealous basalt
If you played regulary you should have them
uncut vault
zealous basalt
For alliance?
dense plover
zandalar forever just means doing the zones
uncut vault
Yes, they have to do four dungeons on mythic difficulty to unlock kul tirans
zealous basalt
Well
ionic terrace
It's not mythic
hollow dock
Just to let you know
zealous basalt
Only the last one is
tulip sun
No, I highly doubt it is intended to be biased.
hollow dock
Siege was mythic only
zealous basalt
Also
dense plover
it was
zealous basalt
people
uncut vault
last one specifically has mythic in the text
dense plover
it isnt now
hollow dock
and forthose of us who had to get it done ahead of time
uncut vault
its like with the balance of power questline in legion, specifically required mythic eye of azshara
dense plover
no home screen for zandalari yet
zealous basalt
Pride = Rescuing Jaina
hollow dock
Yea. Horde get the easier time with theirallied race
dense plover
yeah
hollow dock
More horde bias
zealous basalt
and a united nation is what happens after
hollow dock
Tough. You're the one that daddy blizzard coddles
zealous basalt
its not that hard tbh
tulip sun
Seriously, it is not like they are murdering someone. -they are dungeons-
dense plover
egregiously unfair
zealous basalt
And they are not hard either
dense plover
mythic dungeon vs just quests
hollow dock
Kham ofc wants to keep things imbalanced
zealous basalt
now that Siege is heroic
hollow dock
It has to be mythic Mak
it can't be done on heroic
no group finder forit.
The quest text specifically states "Mythic Siege of Boralus"
uncut vault
hence why IMO, zandalari should require at least LFR of Battle of Dazaralor, gives them the proper story like doing the dungeons for Alliance does
hollow dock
8.1 made heroic available
zealous basalt
King's rest in some part
zealous basalt
Can be changed at last moment
hollow dock
it can
zealous basalt
like that
ionic terrace
and it did
ionic terrace
I literally just linked the quest
hollow dock
sigh
To complete Jaina's story and get the part 1 achieve of Kul tiran humans, it's requiring a mythic dungeon. Zandalari on the other hand only require one thing: Complete the main story of the 3 horde zones
hollow dock
No you never ping the blizz dudes
uncut vault
honestly I think requiring the dungeon is fine, the story in Siege of Boralus, and the cinematic, are important
hollow dock
they are
uncut vault
Im more concerned as to why Zandalari are missing their second cinematic
dense plover
portals got new animation/look
ionic terrace
I know that, what i'm saying is that that's the quest that you need to do and it's been changed to only need to do SoB itself..
hollow dock
it's that the horde DOESN'T require the same hoops to hop through
uncut vault
not just for easier requirements, but missing the final cutscene
dense plover
its wobbly on the outside
tulip sun
That portal o.o
rough pollen
Ooh, new portals look niice
ionic terrace
lol ally side lost their portals 😛
hollow dock
Well fuck it then. Alliance gotta do moreleg work I guess.
uncut vault
yeah theyre really nice, but a bit too sped up IMO
zealous basalt
Just give the horde "Complete the Battle for Dazar' Alor"
uncut vault
they have a really cool anim where they shake out of focus, then stabilize
hollow dock
Just give the horde "Be a horde character" and be rewarded
dense plover
they broke some this build
uncut vault
dense plover
northrend one and shattrath and silvermoon are all broken
ionic terrace
dense plover
is that gilneas?
uncut vault
boralus
ionic terrace
they didn't update mage ones yet
dense plover
that tabard is so HD
vestal otter
still no Hati questline oh well
ionic terrace
Oh, that reminds me...
gilded forge
foggy abyss
Oh
isn't that the questline with that goblin / gnome couple on Tanaris
WE CAN NOW FLY AS ZANDALARI
ionic terrace
oh ouch
foggy abyss
Jesus 15k !
gilded forge
@mystic heart yes, its new
ionic terrace
wtf
dense plover
someone make a meme
take wilbur ross, the guy who said for govt employees to take out bank loans during the govt shutdown
tulip sun
No more stuff to datamine? 😦
foggy abyss
@tulip sun Patience
tulip sun
Don't need to tag me @foggy abyss
tulip sun
I am chill dude...just don't like being randomly pinged.
ionic terrace
he looks angery
tulip sun
Porter, is that the new zandalari flying form?
uncut vault
yeah, the level 60 one
tulip sun
Are the recruitment quests for Zandalari/KT up?
ionic terrace
I can't move
ionic terrace
LOL
uncut vault
they were supposed to be last week
tulip sun
Ya, and only a few got to do them before they vanished
uncut vault
noooooo blizzard
whyyyyy
they made the female belf golden eyes flashlights like the men
dense plover
confirmed
foggy abyss
What is confirmed
dense plover
echero is now a flying mount
foggy abyss
Oh mb didn't knew the mount
tulip sun
Ya, something is wrong with the Zandalari starting zone e.e
dense plover
zealous basalt
DiD and MgO get their armors at 120
tulip sun
I think they confirmed 110?
dense plover
uh
uncut vault
they changed DID and maghar to 110 in beta
dense plover
dont DI and Maghar get it at 110
zealous basalt
Ahh
zealous basalt
holy shit more nerfs to the monks?
dense plover
its the same stuff
uncut vault
no, just updating for the hotfixes
tulip sun
This Ptero is much smaller than the previous
dense plover
the flight master prompt is different
foggy abyss
Paku's Passiv has been nerfed
foggy abyss
Pirahna plant 
foggy abyss
Yikes
zealous basalt
derp
terse patrol
beautiful
tulip sun
Tbh I really like the Zandalari one better
foggy abyss
Same
hollow dock
well yea you're horde kham. That's to be expected. :v
tulip sun
I play both sides...just because I play horde characters doesn't mean I dislike alliance tabards
dense plover
i think its a fair critique - the KT one seems stretched
it should be edited to look less stretched on the race its made for
hollow dock
they didn't critique anything though
foggy abyss
hollow dock
they just stated they prefer their main thing over the other
foggy abyss
The current Zandalari Letter
dense plover
english plz
dense plover
it will have audio
its not done
VO is usually one of the last things in before launch
foggy abyss
"Ah, our young Zandalari "Jakkek" comes to serve the Horde.
The Zandalaris are a strong and fearless people. I am sure that the strengh they shown during the Battle of Dazar'alor might prove useful to our cause.
Standing alongside the horde is Standing with Strengh and honor (Funny from sylvanas). I'll keep notice of your progress, i expect of you to bring Glory to the horde, nothing but Glory.
In your future adventures, do not forget that you fight For the horde !
dense plover
oh
foggy abyss
- Lady Sylvanas winderunner
dense plover
this is gonna be good with audio
uncut vault
there is no audio
uncut vault
they just gave them a letter instead
dense plover
i bet there will be audio
hollow dock
She kept true to the hordes ideals