i liked that
#beta-ptr-spoilers
feral dune
feral dune
not everyone is supposed to be shiny good guys
hollow dock
that's actually the whole point of the Sunwell plataue
feral dune
you can be shiny and evil
hollow dock
Yea
and you don't have to be stealing light to be evil too
You can be a murderous asshole
and still be a paladin
all you need is faith
feral dune
well, if it fits with you mindset prob it will work
hollow dock
Literally. Scarlet Crusade
feral dune
I remember arthas and liadrin lost light powers when they lost their confidence in light and faith in it
hollow dock
Yup
When the faith wavers
the light abandons
Arthas wavered in his faith in the Light and it abandoned him. Liadrin too.
feral dune
thats why i liked this thing where they were just channeling it and using as a weapon
hollow dock
You weren't channeling it
feral dune
it fitted with their always mana seeking power source hungry thmere
feral dune
ye
hollow dock
Second off, you had to keep going back and eventually made a void entity next to the thing your people use to not have their addiction run rampant
feral dune
was it in bc?
feral dune
😉
hollow dock
If it wasn't for Velen, your people wouldn't be redeemed :v
nor have yellow eyes
or light for that matter
pulsar iris
I'm joking
tropic trail
The elves could always use the light even before the sunwell thing.
feral dune
I remember reading lyadrins short story, where I think it said that he (some elf dude) was only one high elf paladin who was part of Silver Hand
and maybe only high elf paladin at that time
not counting high elf priests tho
hollow dock
Liadrin is a she. and she wasn't the only one apart of the crusade, but most of the high elf priests and paladins that existed were slaughtered. the people lost their faith.
in turn, the light no longer obey'd them
until Kael'thas stole a Naaru for them and they made the blood knights
Knights who use light by just stealing it from M'uru
feral dune
I corrected des
one of the guys, who became one of the first blood knigths
I was talking about him
hollow dock
Liadrin was the first
hollow dock
She became the leader of the entire order. that's all we're told.
Numbers muddy things for blizzard in terms of story writing so they leave that vague
feral dune
they wrote it in her short story tho
number of people who first joined blood knight order after her
tulip sun
There were more than that in the silver hand
We see named npcs(not yo mention unnamed guards depending on your race)
But ya
We can assume there is a large amount
hollow dock
the numbers aren't canon then. Unless you can get me hard proof of it, cuz I'm not finding that information anywhere
tulip sun
Numbers honestly don't matter much, when no matter what more will appear
Especially if something is playable
hollow dock
yea as Kham said.
The numbers are only relevant when blizz wants them to be relevant
feral dune
ye
there is universal rule in fantasy: you always have as many elves, as plot demands
found it
it tells exactly who were first to join blood knight order after liadrin
also its full of Liadrin and Lor'themar ship
heh
even Liadrins adoptive father was shipping them
hollow dock
Galell found a chance for a better life in the Blood Knight order, founded by Liadrin herself. Galell was inducted into it by his old mentor, who believed that helping Galell find the Light again -- even if he had to force it to recognize him -- would do him some good.
he was not the second
feral dune
you mean the ship?
hollow dock
No the other bloodknights. There's nothign on the page to say who joined after Liadrin made it
or rather
the first
cuz that's not relevant
hollow dock
yea
I get that
I don't own the book
and am not buying it for one piece of information
feral dune
well, tbh sometimes you cant buy book properly here even if you wanted. You have to order it from another country
but anyway
can you tell me more about blood elves light dwelling?
like
hollow dock
What more do you need to know? o-o
pulsar iris
Removes cloak
Eeeeverything
feral dune
Do blood elves need sunwell to satisfy their magic hunger and thats how they got their golden eyes?
hollow dock
that's up in the air
feral dune
ye
hollow dock
I personally don't think so
once they draw on it, they don't need to anymore. their addicition is settled
pulsar iris
We discussed it recently right Des? That the golden eyes is like a radiation from the sunwell
hollow dock
Other way around
the Green eyes are radiation from the Fel Crystals
Cuz that's how fel works
pulsar iris
Oh yeah. That
feral dune
but their paladins only use faith to gain powers?
hollow dock
Now they use faith yes.
feral dune
shame shame
hollow dock
Again
feral dune
but at least they are clean now
feral dune
yep
hollow dock
you can still be an asshole paladin that steals light
pulsar iris
I'm curious about new Lor'themar model. He has closed eyes, so we don't know if his eyes are still green or if they turned golden
feral dune
lol
hollow dock
I imagine the only ones that have green eyes are warlocks
or blood elves that haven't made their journey to the sunwell since BC
since the golden eye thing was supposed to have been a thing since BC. but blizz just never put it in
pulsar iris
Would be cool if warlocks could have a few unique customization options
hollow dock
that removes the uniqueness of DHs tho
pulsar iris
A bit I think
But I imagine like those fel elves from TBC that had red or blue skin
But yeah, would be more like DH than lock things
hollow dock
yea that's from consuming so much fel that you become a demon. essentially.
pulsar iris
I just love that purple-ish skin tone from the eredar too
With the green eyes and the markings under the eyes
tulip sun
The eredar skin is great
jade basalt
As it should be
vernal tartan
I like how he has this cozzy giant pillow for a throne.
latent tulip
hey what changes are coming to grinding rep for the legion allied races?
and will it be 8.1 or 8.1.5
hollow dock
in 8.1 all rep gained for the allied races reps are doubled
that's the big ol' change
dense plover
from WQs only right?
dense plover
quest rewards are still the same amount i believe
latent tulip
whered you see it? would like to read
hollow dock
On the magical website of Wowhead.com
lemme go get the article from #latest-news-old
https://www.wowhead.com/news=287991/patch-8-1-ptr-argussian-reach-army-of-the-light-reputation-gains-doubled-from-wo @latent tulip
latent tulip
aha :D thank you
pulsar iris
Anyone knows if 8.1 will have a 7th Legion/Honorbound rep token? I know there will be for other BFA reps
dense plover
for what purpose?
uncut vault
I didnt see any rep token stuff for any rep
dense plover
because while i dont think there are tokens, there may be stuff related to why you want them maybe
also that
i havent seen any rep tokens in 8.1
i dont know where you got that info
hollow dock
They aren't tokens in the sense of you click it and it gives you rep
they're repeatable quest items
dense plover
are they BoA?
hollow dock
no
dense plover
yeah
so its just a way to convert doubloons to rep
and earn rep from island expeditions
hollow dock
It is another way to earn rep. Like a token, but it isn't a token
hollow dock
not entirely true O.o
not all tokens in Legion were accountwide to begin with. A lot were just BoP.
tulip sun
So, any predictions for these personal stories for those we meet in Nazjatar?
tulip sun
I mean any ideas on their story. But I honestly thought that too
hollow dock
stories won't matter
dense plover
they look like jinyu, but they arent jinyu - we actually dont have a model yet. what they used was just art
tulip sun
I wouldn't be mad about it
tulip sun
They are a different clan from the MoP ones
tulip sun
I like the idea of playable Jinyu and gilblins more than some
hollow dock
literally what I said
meager warren
jinyu allied races?
no
tulip sun
And this goes into a lot more detail than a lot of races
dense plover
the jinyu things dont have a model yet
tulip sun
Don't like Jinyu or something?
I don't know how this will work for giants and makrura
Like bodyguard wise
hollow dock
You recruit em
and they tell you their story
which we'll forget in an expansion or two
dense plover
so?
thats true of most character stories
nothing wrong with stuff being relevant in the moment
meager warren
why does it matter
zealous basalt
Des they already ditched anything to do with high elves for the rest of the xpac
hollow dock
Do I not sound like someone who knows that but still doesn't care?
meager warren
you sound like a dick
dense plover
thats unneccesary
just because someone has different opinions does not mean you should insult them
its uncouth
hollow dock
Oh who's insulting me I wonder
unique crag
I can see Jinyu becoming compromise for playable Naga
Tbf that ninja jinyu looks awesome
I'd take it if they become playable
zealous basalt
Something about the deeps?
tulip sun
Ankoran or something I thinm
dense plover
right
tulip sun
Think
meager warren
you insult me almost every time i comment, vris.
but you've got to be innocent 
hollow dock
Something weebish. Can relate
zealous basalt
I think he has you blocked
unique crag
Oh Ankoan
meager warren
calling people idiots, saying they know nothing, calling them trolls...
oh wait
that was me
hollow dock
Well when your attitude changes, mine will. It's all you ever do in the vain attempt to guise it as "just trying to learn"
meager warren
i don't guise it as anything.
you guise your pretention as knowing everything
north storm
terse patrol
Hope these fish dudes the Alliance help out are cool.
Watch the females be attractive while the males look like angler fish faces.
true blizzard fashion
uncut vault
true blizzard fashion is not making a female version at all
north storm
true
ogre females aren't sexy enough to be a part of wow
or maybe wow ogres do it through male pregnancy
pulsar iris
Actually it is said that female ogres look like female orcs. And female orcs look kinda sexy
pulsar iris
Really? Well, I must have been trolled then
But that looks cool as fuck. I don't mind an ugly fat ogre like that. I would even enjoy playing as one
jade basalt
@pulsar iris You have not been trolled. This is another canonical female ogre, and she looks quite like a female orc. It's just that ugliness probably comes with age or something.
tulip sun
That second one is likely a young female ogre
hollow dock
I always took that picture as "she's lying and saying she's an ogre"
cuz ogres are dumber than a sack of bricks
jade basalt
No no, she's an ogre. It's just that she's young
terse patrol
Ye. Something tells me Blizzard wouldn’t make all ogre females ugly if they added them in. It’s not Blizzard’s design philosophy. AKA: ugly man, attractive female.
tulip sun
I am sure they'd be considered ugly
hardy hedge
Even male ogres are not that ugly anymore
jade basalt
Cho'gall is a chap
hollow dock
Mar'gok too
hardy hedge
Like they are not dream daddies
hollow dock
speak for yourself
terse patrol
Thicc bois
hardy hedge
But they since they took away the "big, fat dumb ogres" they have got more aesthetically pleasing aswell as less ugly for some reason
I mean I know some girls who likes them round
hollow dock
they're still fat
they just don't look like they're made from an early 2000s 3D video game
strange falcon
that pic reminds me of ballas from warframe lul
hollow dock
yea. tis still fat, just not. blubber fat.
hardy hedge
Yeah thats who I was thinking about
hollow dock
it's muscle fat.
hardy hedge
^
zealous basalt
I dont think people recognize the difference between muscle fat and fat
hollow dock
I affectionately call them Muscle Men. massive dudes that can deadlift nearly a ton and are larger than body builders
strange falcon
F A T
terse patrol
Thicccc
But ye
Part of me thinks Kul Tiran females are likely closer to what female ogres will look like. Just add a heavy brow, more muscle, and tusks.
If ogres are added, I hope they have a cool leader
zealous basalt
Mod the shit out of it
terse patrol
I guess Rexxar would be fine
terse patrol
Hes a half ogre but I think leads the Stonemaul
hollow dock
when's he say that?
muted canopy
in hots he says he is 1/4 ogre at best
tranquil steeple
I mean.... isn't hots generally just... non-canon mish-mash of "go have fun as any Blizzard character"? (that they add - edit: missed the questionmark)
as far as characters from other games interacting with eachother goes, atleast
hollow dock
Yea i wouldnt take hots as hard canon.
Cuz thatd mean alexstrasza has a very booming voice. When she doesnt
Cant cherry pick canon and all that
dense plover
HoTS is non canon
pulsar iris
@hollow dock is Wilson Fisk a ogre?
pulsar iris
Oh you mean 181kg
hollow dock
yes. Like in legion
strange harbor
Hi I signed up for ptr but still have not gotten a email to be a beta tester.
uncut vault
PTR doesn’t get an email, you can download it any time
Emails only go out during alpha and beta testing phases
Which are just for xpacs
uncut vault
On the launcher, click your account name and a tab should pop up, click PTR and download it, should go fast, since it copies info from live
hollow dock
You have to manually copy the live folder onto the PTR folder for it to go fast.
otherwise it treats it as a fresh install
strange harbor
Okay thank you.
uncut vault
It does automatically now
I redownloaded PTR onto a new computer a few weeks ago, automatically copied live
hollow dock
:v didn't for me when I redownloaded the PTR some two months ago.
was doing a fresh install till I did the old 'beta' fix of fast downloading
uncut vault
Works for all Blizzard games now, happened with OW too this week for the redownload
Just copied all the PTR data, turned into a 500mb download
tranquil steeple
what if you Hero/Bloodlust before pulling to counter Jaina countering your Hero/Bloodlust?
zealous basalt
I think she ice blocks at the moment
ancient kraken
What a bitch lol
tranquil steeple
also, would that mean you can bloodlust at a specific time to interrupt a mechanic?
uncut vault
I think that’s the intended use
Because she has time warp
So you lust when she does
sullen dagger
'mornin yall
meager warren
And that's a surprise?
dense plover
Warfront WQs give 1 medal each
pulsar iris
They didn't make WQs for Arathi, did they?
uncut vault
They did, voiced by Shaw and I believe Nathanos
pulsar iris
Logged in PTR and didn't saw any for Arathi. Only for Darkshore
hollow dock
the only WQ for Arathi that exists is the world boss
pulsar iris
Would be good if they did a few just like they're doing on Darkshore
muted canopy
if they did that, they'd fuck up on their answers as always and have to retcon more
hollow dock
what do you mean Sandra? O.o
muted canopy
hollow dock
How would putting more WQs on darkshore for the warfront stuff mean they have to retcon?...
muted canopy
i meant them answering questions about lore in qnas
hollow dock
that's literally not a retcon and everyones misunderstanding what Afrasabi meant.
and also, their Lore Q&A's of the past have held up.
pulsar iris
Still kinda out of subject lol
hollow dock
and yea.
hardy hedge
Years after: HotS is canon to itself. And while in context it may be taken as a joke, it does make sense when you think about it. He can't be half-ogre if his dad was already a half-ogre
tulip sun
I am very interested in seeing the Mok'nathal expanded
and seeing a female model of Rexxar's updated one xD
dense plover
unlikely
pretty much all of the moknathal are dead
they are a rare occurence
and ostracized and, before draenor became outland, hunted
hollow dock
Uh
Wat
@dense plover You do realize that the clan Rexxar came from survived on Outland right? Hell their kore is after their rebellion on Gorgrond they got to live in peace in a small corner of it. Isolated away. Rexxar joining the orcish horde spared the ckan being wiped out and as Cycle of Hatred came out before BC, Rexxar likely believed he was the only one left with Draenors destruction into Outland.
hollow dock
numbers don't matter for an allied race
earnest violet
blood elf are supposed to be around 10% of the original high elf population before the third war.
so yeah, they don't bother with numbers
hollow dock
helves are supposed to be 10% of that 10% of the remaining blood elves. They're still an effective military force in Azeroth. Numbers don't matter
light bobcat
And velfs are an even smaller percent of belfs
tulip sun
Ya...
Void elves are a good example of a recent playable race that realistically shouldn't be that many
I don't think population is a problem
hollow dock
As much as I don't like em, they are right. and I'll defend em on their wants for a mok'nathal. As silly as it is.
tulip sun
I would be reasonably ok with any race, but I think Moknathal have a decent chance
hollow dock
I'd love to know how you rate the likelyness of allied races.
is it an equation or just a feelin like Honk?
meager zodiac
the only races im not a particular fan are races that step on the toes of already existing one, add nothing interesting or new to the faction, or have little potential for future stories
tulip sun
Whether they appear in the story, what their model is like...etc.
steel venture
give me my naga
there is LOBSTER NAGA NOW
legged naga isnt a stretch
I don't care if they end up using sethrak animations I want naga for their lore qqqqqq;;
gimme my snakefish
meager warren
lobster naga wot
tight widget
This is potentially a spoiler, but I'm really just seeking confirmation. Hence posting in the spoiler channel.
Someone mentioned Lightforged Undead... What?
meager zodiac
yeah basicaly its from before the storm
the book ends with calia menethil being raised into undeath
but no valkyr or necromancer in sight, non ono she is brought back as a light forsaken, with a ritual that involved alonsus faol, anduin and Saa'ra
tight widget
Interesting... Definitely interesting... But I think it sounds like a unique case, then again, so do Void Elves. So who knows. Definitely something to look out for, Thank you for the response. ^_^
meager zodiac
yeah, but she ended the book saying that she considers the forsaken her people, and she is learning how to adapt to her new state with alonsus faol
tight widget
Hmm, So potentially an escape for Forsaken who do not want to be under a warmonger and wish to be reunited with their loved ones who are still alive.
Opens up a lot of interesting philosophical choices for the forsaken! <3
hollow dock
Yea. She's not lightforged per-say, but people are interpreting it as that. She was resurrected with the light, but requested that she reflect her people as moon said, Which would be the forsaken.
Oh those already exist Tami.
hollow dock
Also covered in Before the Storm, an entire faction of them bound together to do just that: Reunite with their loved ones.
tight widget
Will post him in transmog in a bit.
I'm glad they are covering these things, they are what I'm most interested in.
hollow dock
It happened in Arathi. I forget the exact details but not a lot were accepting of the dead being their loved ones and Sylvanas allowed these now broken forsaken back in. If I remember right, when she saw that undead were starting to be accepted, she started to slaughter them all. Or something along those lines. At that point, she turned on not only those that ran back for her but also those that 'turned' on her and Calia was killed in the crossfire. Which is why she was resurrected.
Could have gotten a few details wrong but I'm 99% sure that's the gist of it
tight widget
Sylvanas is definitely becoming more unhinged and villainy. I imagine her end will come soon. ^_^
I need to see if these books exist as audiobooks., I'm unable to concentrate on walls of text for very long, so reading them has never been easy.
hollow dock
She's not unhinged. I can say that.
and yes they do, Before the Storm is even voiced by Anduins voice actor.
She's actually not changed that much in terms of her evil actions since WC3.
She'll do what she needs to in order to accomplish her goals. Whatever those means are.
tight widget
I dunno, I think it's very opinion based whether or not she's seen as an insane bitch or... what you said. XD
hollow dock
I have been following her very closely from WC3, like objectively she's always been willing to backstab, kill in the shadows or do what she needs to either keep her own power base in check or rid herself of competition. See Koltira in Cata where he was kidnapped by Sylvanas and tortured until Legion.
For making a truce with the Alliance forces at Andorhal.
tight widget
Her goals however, seem to be more lunatic directed each expansion. She definitely seems to hold a hatred for all life.
hollow dock
can you blame her? We even see the clues and hints as far back as wrath of the Lich King.
tight widget
I can, yes.
hollow dock
When fighting the undead, why make a plague v2.0 that can wipe out not only the dead, but the living as well? Almost like she was going to wipe out the alliance in a near genocide.
tight widget
I just really don't like her story, she comes back to life a few times, once after killing herself. She cannot accept death, fair enough... but she wants to wipe out the living? She's unhinged crazy crazy crazy.
meager zodiac
yeah i dont think calia will remain withe alliance, i think she will chose the whole forsaken and join the horde if it means she can help thm
hollow dock
When she first died, it was to arthas.
She was forced to watch the pain, suffering and genocide of her people after having been risen as a banshee.
As a sick joke by Arthas.
tight widget
Then posessed her own corpse eventually, then jumped off ICC (A while later I grant you.)
hollow dock
Very later. Before then she had to deal with her own people attempting to uproot her and watch the alliance nearly overtake her peoples homes.
tight widget
Everyone else was jumping off ICC because the mage forgot to open a portal... Okay I'm the mage... I said I'm sorry already! XD
hollow dock
and when she did kill her self, she welcomed death. She was plenty ready to just end it all.
tight widget
Eternity in purgatory with her BFF arthas.
hollow dock
But the Val'kyr, those enslaved by the Lich King, begged her to not go. Not only because it was their way out of the scourge, but also to lead the Forsaken.
Sylvanas agreed to it and then cata starts up.
Where her goals are no longer revenge, but preservation and expansion.
From here on out, that's the singular driving goal of her. To preserve and expand her people.
tight widget
I would like to let you know, just in case. I don't want to waste your time. I'm not going to change my opinion of her. I'm very stubborn on this. I hate her.
hollow dock
Oh that's fine
I absolutely despise her myself
but that does not mean you can't learn the full story so that you can correctly hate her.
tight widget
I mostly hate her for her immense plot armour.
hollow dock
Well you can blame Afrasabi on that one
tight widget
In that undercity cutscene, I honestly thought she was going to kiss Anduin, they were so close.
tight widget
When they busted into the throne room, Genn was getting mouthy. She walked right up face to face with Anduin. And I was just sighing... stab her, use some light or something.. grief.
tight widget
Can have a horde without Sylvanas.
tight widget
What?
tight widget
I expect Lilian voss or someone along those lines to lead the forsaken in her place. Or as you said, Calia might join the horde, Potentially being foisted into leadership of the Forsaken.
hollow dock
that's what I think will happen if we ever oust Sylvanas
tight widget
I think Orcs and Trolls can easily manage to be warmongering without Sylvanas. XD
hollow dock
No orc leaders will. Which so far is just Saurfang.
tight widget
Well, we've had plenty of opportunities for orcs to rise up.. :-(
tight widget
What about.. Forgot her name... Maghar titty thrall.
tight widget
Geya'rah
hollow dock
but a little communication would solve that up
tight widget
It would never be made that easy though.
hollow dock
In a time of peace with a warchief of one of the other actual leaders, it would
which is why we can't have that so Sylvie gets to keep living
tight widget
Have you seen American writing? It's never as easy as a quick conversation.
Also there's people that would inevitably cause trouble. Blizzard will pull anything out to keep the faction war going.
hollow dock
I'm apart of american writing. So yea. It only happens when it's convenient for the story or plot.
tight widget
Which happens fairly often.
Need to keep the war going, let's burn down a few trees.
Or one big tree. ^_^
The Horde and Alliance will always find reasons to fight. We don't need Sylvanas for that, is all I'm saying.
hollow dock
but tits
but yea. jokes aside, I getcha
But when the lead writers pet is at the helm
tight widget
The Horde and alliance will fight over tits.
hollow dock
kinda hard to wrestle it out of the focus
Which sucks
cuz.
Alliance gets no expansion
and when they do, it's only to push the hordes agenda
You know about 8.1 right? Darkshore and the Night Elf warfront and all that jazz?
tight widget
Looking forward to it, Hoping to see the Night Elves act more like WC3 Nelves.
hollow dock
Nope
Not even close
Granted that it's better now. But uh.
Take a look at what the original story was going to be.
http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/the-8-1-darkshore-quests-are-really-bad [Written by the ever so talented Ian Bates. Red Shirt Guy]
tight widget
Gives a couple seconds, Just posting that undead paladin I promised.
That's going to take me a good while to read... :-( Gives a while.
Up to "The Alliance Questline" So far I'm quite disappointed.
hollow dock
the team decided this was the iteration they wanted to put onto the PTR and get the VAs to voice up
tight widget
The story is a bit disappointing. To put it lightly.
Belmont Snicker
“Leave him to rot. He does not deserve a clean death,”
Yeah... I'm tired of that shit. Do blizzard realise that two major cities were destroyed and no important lore figures died?
tight widget
Oh well, guess that's another patch to be disappointed by. I'm really glad I don't play this game for the lore anymore. Haha.
hollow dock
Now they did improve some bits.
Like the raising of night elves sometimes fails.
Tyrande kills everyone but Belmont, he's still just frozen, and she no longer disappears against Nathanos
in fact, she can no longer be even damanged by Nathanos.
But everything else is pretty much the same. The night warrior empowered NPCs do....nothing really. Sira isn't threatening and falls over like a twig, and the horde are the big winning guys still. Alliance are still the guys that just eat shit.
tight widget
I hope, if Nathanos doesn't die, he at least loses a limb or something. He could use a cutting down.
hollow dock
He lost his face in Legion. temporarily
tight widget
Course if he loses an arm, and gets a fancy prosthetic one, then he risks looking like Stukov.
hollow dock
Stukov aint prosthetics tho
and also I'm fairly certain that if he loses an arm
they'd just sew it back on
tight widget
No, I know that... but we can't really infect Blightcaller with zerg.... can we? I mean... It'd... No... No... Sylvanas needs to stay as far away from the Kerrigan plot as is physically possible.
hollow dock
I mean.
After teldrassil in this chat
we were all sayin
"She's going to be Kerrigan 2.0"
which was a shit story in of itself
tight widget
Yeah, Kerrigan and Sylvanas are very similar. I often worry about this happening. And it still could.
meager zodiac
kerrigan at least had some remaining humanity and conscience
tight widget
The end result of the Kerrigan story was just.... awful... like... really poor.
A Scene with her dying in raynors arms and him looking into the sky as it rains and shouting "Noooo" Would've been less awful.
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I really liked Tychus... And Raynor fighting with Tychus... so him dying was bad for me. An acceptable ending if it ended there, but continuing without him.. Meh.
terse patrol
To a point, I didn’t mind Kerrigan being dezerged. But the fact she became Zerg AGAIN was stupid af.
Then became a Space Angel.
@hollow dock
urban raft
when are kul tiran humans gona be on ptr?
hollow dock
when they are ready for testing
urban raft
no exact date?
uncut vault
Assuming they do get tested like DID and Maghar did, whenever 8.1.5 PTR comes out, possibly a few patches in
muted canopy
8.1 is starting on december 11th, but they said the raid wont be available until january and those races wont be available until after that.
so probably february
dense plover
^
glad cedar
I dont know where to post this but anyone got the link for the updated BGs(I wanna see how they look) though, mgiht have been a blizzcon slide thing
crimson wasp
pulsar iris
I think there is no notice of it, but someone knows if are there plans to make transparent gloves for tmog?
hollow dock
there are none
pulsar iris
Kinda silly, but I think would be cool
hollow dock
it'd be nice aesthetically. but otherwise I don't see a reason to do that.
pulsar iris
Yeah, the only reason for tmog in general is aesthetics really
uncut vault
latest PTR build fixed the Dark Ranger arrow texture, and added it to the bows on the NPCs
it is glorious
tropic trail
omg yeeesss
tranquil steeple
Still pretty disappointed they just recolored WoD gear.. but hey, atleast that arrow texture's sweet as fuq.
tulip sun
Looks great
meager zodiac
the normal dark ranger gear and bow looks better to me than sylvannas brown and red gear
hardy hedge
Kill all traitors
misty blaze
sylvanas is so sexy and is my 2nd waifu behind lady jaina
meager warren
Still waiting for a scene in WoW to show something like this https://giphy.com/gifs/lz6cW7aZx9Ux7hRoF6
tight widget
WoW doesn't have tide, don't be silly. XD
meager warren
Don't remind me 
restive pasture
im getting sea sick just watching that gif
strange relic
I like that they added a choice to the Sira situation on PTR for Horde, even though it doesn't change the outcome any.
uncut vault
Choice has always been there, don’t know why people thought it was added in later
That choice is what sparked the idea to add a choice in the Saurfang quests
strange relic
Oh, huh, I wasnt aware it was there at first.
EIther way, that choice in particular i think is a good one. Probably better than the Saurfang one tbh.
lucid steeple
so are dark rangers gonna be a playable horde race?
if they plan to add a third faction they will fill it with more races that will be cool
uncut vault
The likely options with the systems we have now are a skin tone for blood elves like the Night Warrior skin tone, an Allied race, or a hero class
hollow dock
Wouldn't they have to gimp Marksman for the Dark Ranger to work?
uncut vault
Not particularly, all the old dark ranger elements have been removed from all the hunter specs
uncut vault
could make their stuff similar to old Survival with the stings and activating those
hollow dock
But those stings are already in hunter.
uncut vault
Old sting mechanics, I mean
hollow dock
Most of those mechanics are obsolete
unless you're saying dark rangers, for some odd reason, use mana
uncut vault
nowadays stings are just DoTs
hollow dock
Wyvern Sting and Scorpid are otherwise still used in hunter to this day.
uncut vault
But they have the banshee angle, and melee elements, and pet stuff that isnt just having one or not having one
hollow dock
the only sting that's ever been a dot is well.
Serpent
and the only sting just never used is viper. which is due ot the mana drain no longer being a requirement
but then if you're a banshee, why bother witht he ranger elements at all?
uncut vault
because this is a fantasy game, ask Sylvanas the same question
hollow dock
yea and all she does are: Things normal hunters already do but with shadow magic instead of nature
And all of this is made moot by the point of: Why is there a horde only hero class?
uncut vault
Im not even someone that wants the dark ranger class, but the only thing they have in common with hunters is shooting bows, theyve got a fantasy that can provide any kind of ranged class Blizzard wants, especially considering how many iterations hunter specs have gone through
hollow dock
Except that it's all shot based. Which is what Marksman already tackles. Like there's no way around that design.
outside of: not being a ranger
uncut vault
the marksman of MoP is not the same as the marksman of WoD is not the same as the marksman of Legion is not the same of Marksman of BfA
hollow dock
it's not the same you're 100% right
but
it's all designed in the same thematic
which dark ranger tramples onto
hollow dock
As seen with Demonology, it's thematic was eventually studying demons so much to become a demon
Which
absolutely no mage spec even comes close to being
so you can stop with that right away
uncut vault
its almost like they can make the different specs do different things and they dont all need to be ranged marksmen
hollow dock
To make Demon Hunters work in the proper fantasy as given by lore, they had to completely remake demonology from the ground up and toss out the becoming a demon part and made it a summoner class.
uncut vault
because they arent all ranged marksmen
uncut vault
That's what an archer is
hollow dock
Rangers
as defined
in WoW
are bow using people that use various types of magic, mostly arcane and nature and sometimes shadow, to kill other people
uncut vault
Except, Nathanos only used axes until Legion, and Dark Ranger Velonara exclusively uses swords
Sylvanas uses daggers and swords in multiple places
They're banshees inside a body, there's a lot more room for fantasy than shadowy bows
hollow dock
I don't see why you are fighting me on this. I'm asking the question of: How would you design a ranger to not be what two hunter specs already envelop as to not slap Marksman out of it
and yes
they use melee when melee is needed
however
Velonara is described as a marksman hunter
since we want to use in game comparisons
but you don't see Sylvanas charging the front line Sword and dagger in hand
do you?
No, you see her taking those out WHEN OTHERS GOT NEAR.
almost like the hunters did up until Cataclysm
and again
if you tackle it on Banshee
why not just make a banshee class
and forget the dark ranger motiff
uncut vault
So you're saying using a fantasy from hunters that they havent used for 6 years is stepping o nthe toes of marksmanship?
hollow dock
Legitimately ignoring me.
Alright
My point is this:
Sylvanas using a sword and dagger in some cases
does not mean dark rangers are suddenly hybrid melee ranged of a class.
the fantasy of a ranger is to use a bow but swap to melee when melee is needed
Dark rangers have almost always been exclusively archers. Marksman using shadow magic
and again, on velonara's case, she's depicted as a marksman hunter.
not just an exclusive sword wielding ranger.
uncut vault
"How would you design a ranger to not be what two hunter specs already envelop as to not slap Marksman out of it" I would mix in melee abilities, something that Marksmanship does not do, I would do a temporary pet system based on DoTs from enemies, something closer to Demo Lock than anything Hunter has, I would give them support abilities, which are demonstrably shown in the Darkshore warfront, I would give them sonic and disruption based abilities, I would use the old hunter system of applying and activating DoTs
none of those things are a part of current hunter
uncut vault
Chimaera shot
activated your sting for an effect
which is what I was referring to earlier
modern hunter doesnt do that
hollow dock
All that did was extend serpent shot
uncut vault
applying an effect of choice and using another ability to amplify it
hollow dock
In which Chimera shot is current in Marksman
uncut vault
it is in current beast mastery
and has no mechanics similar to original chimaera shot
it is a two target focus generator
hollow dock
Yes because the old effect became obsolete
uncut vault
I am referring to the old mechanics, not the visuals or name
hollow dock
as Serpent sting was rotated out to a talent
alright so
it's a melee ranged hybrid
uncut vault
Yeah I get that, no current spec of hunter uses that old system, it is open for use
hollow dock
which does more damage in that case?
Like how do you balance that? How does that work?
How do you have melee and ranged damaging abilities?
Do you just sit at range and do the shots as you imply or do they become what raptor strike was for old hunters and just something that was never used
uncut vault
Same way current Enhancement, or Survival, or certain builds of Unholy are balanced, if they make it its own spec, finishers require closer range,
hollow dock
So.
No legitmate range abilities
just melee abilities that have a lot of range due to a CD or a talent
uncut vault
Saying it couldnt happen because current hunters would need to be changed doesnt really work, because there are three iterations of marksmanship and survival that have happened before the current ones that can be drawn from to not step on the toes of the current iterations
hollow dock
But those iterations were removed because they didn't work
so why would they suddenly work for a horde only hero class?
uncut vault
I literally never said anything about horde hero class, nor did I say the entire spec needs to be reused
certain mechanics can be taken in isolation and be reused for other specs
hollow dock
Dark rangers are horde only
so
them being a hero class woul dmake them what again?
uncut vault
its almost like I brought up a hypothetical 🤔
hollow dock
Which I am challenging said hypothetical
cuz hypothetically
Jaina can be a dreadlord
and now you can't say anything against it because it's a hypothetical and thus is immune to any criticisms. yea?
uncut vault
Never once said that but k
Still waiting for an answer on how taking isolated mechanics from old specializations is stepping on the toes of current hunter
hollow dock
If you were to take solely old and unused mechanics, then sure.
Fine. That should work in theory
Im still waiting on how this horde only class becomes a hero class
uncut vault
Its almost like I said I dont actually want it as a class, and was just proposing the option
uncut vault
because me not liking it doesnt mean it isnt possible
hollow dock
So then I ask the possibilities and why it's possible
and the question gets dodged or reflected onto me
uncut vault
If they do end up making it a class, they can mirror a different look for a priestess of the moon style class for alliance, or have Delaryn betray sylvanas and rejoin her people in an xpac or two, who knows
Like I said, hypothetical
hollow dock
I doubt they'd make faction specific classes again. And if Delaryn betrays sylvanas, why did she ever join in the first place? she was willing to betray her people.
and why would her people ever accept her in that case?
it being a hypothetical doesn't mean I can't question it
uncut vault
it wouldnt actually be a faction specific class, it would be faction specific visuals
and delaryn changing her mind would come with further story advancements I dont know yet
hollow dock
So you're saying a priestess of the moon
is the direct equivalent
to a dark ranger
uncut vault
in terms of being a diverse ranger with magic that enhances their abilities and supporting capabilities, yes
hollow dock
So they'd function
the exact same
meaning that
they are supposed to be, for fantasy sake, the exact same
uncut vault
Mechanically, yes, they could be, a lot of class fantasy comes from visuals
an enhancement shaman without the elemental visuals is just a fancy warrior
hollow dock
If they wouldn't change the visuals from human paladins to anything the horde uses
uncut vault
with a rage generation and spender system
hollow dock
Yes and an enhance shaman does not at all play out like say
Fury warrior
or Arms warrior
uncut vault
Well, they did, and they changed mechanics too when they were first introduced, and still do that with bloodlust vs heroism, but neither shaman nor paladin are a hero class
we'd also never gotten entirely new customization for a class beyond some skin tones before demon hunter
hollow dock
Bloodlust and Heroism, and timewarp, are not really an excercise of "We want this class to feel different because its on the other faction"
uncut vault
theyre the same mechanic with different visuals to fit their faction
hollow dock
but
they don't
absolutely nothing else on a resto shaman
reflects the horde or alliance
it reflects a shaman
So if we use that same mentality onto say
Dark ranger and priestess of elune
uncut vault
yes, because theyre an old and regular class, I am talking about a mechanic specific to this hero class, like how horns, tattoos and blindfolds are specific to demon hunters
hollow dock
Except that, despite it being special for demon hunters, those same blindfolds horns and tattoos, are the same. Granted the colors of the tattoos do change on faction to fit the race
they are the same design
er
not tattoos
the blindfold colors
the belves get red ones on their fancy ones while nelves get the dark purple/grey
but otherwise, the exact same design
uncut vault
Yes, but they were a new mechanic blizzard introduced, having an entirely new customization options for a class, so hypothetically, they can make a new system of having the same mechanics with different visuals based on faction, and fulfill proper fantasy
hollow dock
which even that isn't actually reflective of the faction
that's reflective of the race
As remember, belves and nelves at the time of the demon hunter area are not apart of the horde or alliance. So it's just their racial flairs
and they weren't even a new mechanic as, when the actual class mechanics are tossed in
the blindfolds and all the extra customizations which are bound to the character
are tossed out
the only changes we actually see are the meta forms which just get a different tint based on being belf or nelf
which the forms themselves aren't actually different
they're just a different shading
Blizz did not go out of their way to make two sets of two meta forms to be completely unique
they just changed their tints
uncut vault
Im not referring to faction differences between demon hunters
Im referring to the fact that their new customization was a demon hunter specific thing, that hadnt been done before
this could be too
hollow dock
Yea they hadn't been done before. this is 100% absolutely true.
but it's also not done in a way that really gives way to it being "completely different and unique animations and spell effects based on the faction"
as they're just the same things tinted over
they could have just made the belf or nelf dhs first
copy pasted it for belves or nelves
and done
mortal zephyr
A faction specific class would ruin this game.
strange relic
Yeah, I have to agree - the only way you could add a 'faction specific class' these days would be to make it suck so much that nobody serious would play it.
uncut vault
Sounds like you didnt read anything about what we were talking about.
None of what we discussed involved faction specific mechanics or numbers.
pulsar iris
I'm all for race/faction specific FLAVOR aesthetics for the same class
Instead of playing a tauren paladin, you'll be playing a tauren sunwalker
I think it is the same thing for this Priestess of Elune VS Dark Ranger
Correct me if I'm saying bullshit @uncut vault
hollow dock
A priestess of elune
pulsar iris
From what I've read that is the idea
hollow dock
Is absolutely nothing like a dark ranger
Is the issue.
Just like a sunwalker is, by all intents and purposes of lore, absolutely nothing like a paladin
pulsar iris
But, Des. The class would be like "special magic ranger", and the special faction flavor would call them priestess of Elune or dark ranger
hollow dock
Yes and just like with the sunwalker
It destroys one fantasy
To push another
Which swings right back to my original point: you cant make the dark ranger without destroying something in the process.
pulsar iris
What would it destroy?
hollow dock
What a priestess of elune is
Which is a mixture of light duirism, priesthood, and ranger all mixed together.
Whereas dark rangers are just a necromatic take on the average ranger.
pulsar iris
I think that's where the faction flavor would kick in
hollow dock
Just as a sunwalker is not a legitmate paladin.
They are druids
But that has been destroyed
Why? The class design.
pulsar iris
Really? They are druids? I didn't knew that
pulsar iris
oh
hollow dock
They became paladins because well. Blizz couldnt make a light wirshipping druid class. So they just slapped the Paladin stuff over it, as what a Sunwalker is is as described by this conversation: a visually different but mechanically the same as paladin
And thus destroyed what the fantasy of a sunwalker is. So youre saying to do just that for the priestess of elune
Or vice versa for dark ranger.
pulsar iris
Well, they could do it correctly this time
hollow dock
Except they won't. They will never ahain make racial or faction based spells and abilities. The only time this is false is Bloodlust/heroism. Because this is the only spell that actually lends itself to be faction-based
As in vanilla they did make racial spells for the classes
It killed any sense of choice
If you were anything but dwarf priest for instance
You were playing priest wrong. Fear ward was op as all hell
pulsar iris
Well, I understand they usually don't do exactly what players ask. But would be nice to have faction/race specific effects
hollow dock
Oh absolutely
pulsar iris
I still feel bad that allied races are not just more customization options
hollow dock
In a perfect world I wouldnt feel bad for playing alliance. Or have to beg to feel some pride for my favorite races.
Or even to play them.
All that would be nice.
pulsar iris
Have been thinking with myself these days how could dark iron dwarf, lightforged draenei and other ARs that are pretty much the same just being a switch you would turn in the character creation
hollow dock
Its what they should have always been.
But sadly thats not what blizz wants. They want it to be different for the sake of choice. A sake we the playerbase demand for.
pulsar iris
I mean, there are some races that I totally get being a new entire race
hollow dock
So why would they make two classes the same thing. This seems rather counter productive.
pulsar iris
Void elves and nightborne? That is cool, because horde gets nelf lookalike and alliance gets belv lookalike
hollow dock
Even though neither wanted it
pulsar iris
But LF draenei and HM tauren... dude, that is just a waste
Just a random thing. Got a surf jelly from entering a IE and it ending 5 seconds after I got in lol
uncut vault
Totems are also race specific
hollow dock
But not faction. Which again, is the basis of the argument.
urban raft
any good spoiler?
terse patrol
@uncut vault whats the context of that
uncut vault
She borrowed a spider tank from a gnome friend, and is using it in the Voldun incursion
tulip sun
That's cool
jovial skiff
Sheandris is cool
terse patrol
I ship them
hollow dock
but Keeshan and Shandris are the ship
zealous basalt
Tri ship?
meager zodiac
doe shandris and keeshan compare knife collections?!!!!!
do they both like explosives???????????!!!!
no, they dont, kelsey x keeshan is THE ship
hollow dock
Someone didn' tplay the war campaign for the alliance then
where shandris and keeshan are literally flirting with each other
meager zodiac
i did play the war campaign, that is where we see kelsey and keeshan have sparkles of chemestry
they even end it with "we have to discuss our shared interests"
hollow dock
So did you ever go below deck to where Shandris and Keeshan are? Hear their talking?
meager zodiac
and shandris and jarod are already a premedited pair!
hollow dock
and yes Shandris called for Keeshan personally. They flirt. they are a ship.
steel venture
Jarod had a wife already and she's been dead for less than five years. :T
Blizzard aint rushing to pair him with anybody else.
gilded forge
steel venture
As much as I hate elf/human pairs it'll probably be shandris and keeshan as the next one.
gilded forge
jovial skiff
I think Keeshan is just a player trying to get some where he can
unique crag
When is the next build
unique crag
tight widget
I vote for Keeshan and Kelsey. Double K's. (Better than triple...) And Gnomes don't get much love.
tight widget
I hope not, lore is boring enough as is without another elf / human combo.
hollow dock
The campaign builds up a relationship between the two of them. They are a legitimate ship and there's no way to contest against it and say it's not
tight widget
It also builds up a relationship with all the others, you just notice between Shandris and Keeshan more because you're obsessed with elves. XD
Also, I'm not contesting against it and saying it's not. I'm saying I hope it's not. I'm allowed to hope.
hollow dock
Not true at all.
Shandris and keeshan both get more dialogue lines all together and interact more often than the 1 time Kelsey interacts with Keeshan
They have grounds to be a legitimate couple and their dialogue on the ship proves it with the trope of "Im just human, why pick me for this" and Shandris starts to list off all the flattering stuff about Keeshan :v
steel venture
Yea, I'll say it again. As much as I dislike elf/human ships, it still is probably very likely.
At least it's also actually grounded on more legitimate character reaction than "the elf is eye-candy for the human."
looks at vereesa and rhonin. squints.
steel venture
Well yeah.
But then they want us to be "emotional" over it when he dies ... when its like, we never saw them even interact really as a couple.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
hollow dock
I felt the emotion for Jaina losing Rhonin. Thats about it. And feel sorry for Vereesa, as without Knaak to muck it up, Blizz does make it feel like she was truly devastated by it
strange falcon
CITIZENSOFDALARAN left the game
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<3
hollow dock
Buncha babies :v
tight widget
I was in an RP guild that was in dalaran, so I've heard that way too many times.
limber mural
My mom reckons Keeshan and Shandris
I'm more inclined to Keeshan and kelsey personally
proven sequoia
I'm more of an Umbric x Shandris guy myself.
limber mural
My mom beat me to the later stages of war campaign cause I was too lazy to farm rep
hollow dock
they openly distrust one another
proven sequoia
Ah.
hollow dock
yea I too miss a time when the night elf race wasn't genocided
limber mural
I did read something funny
undead Hunters. please wait while they retrieve the arm their pet took and buried
hollow dock
that made me giggle
proven sequoia
I miss the times before Tyrande Slit-the-wrists' Nigt Warrior phase. I don't like the amount of edge I feel from her every time I see her.
frigid tartan
can all races be all classes now?
limber mural
no
limber mural
Cataclysm brought a few new combos
hollow dock
That is very concerning considering that's suicide
Do you think she's suicidal now? O.o
proven sequoia
I was referring to her edge. Should I remove the comment?
hollow dock
What edge does she have? She took on the other half of elune and started to slaughter forsaken in her rampage for revenge
zealous basalt
Why is it bad
hollow dock
She's not theatrical about it. She's not constantly screeching about her pain and loss.
She exhibits nothing that other 'edgy' characters exhibit
and hell she's talkative as if she were a military leader, which she is.
proven sequoia
I get that gods cannot simply be benevolent Infinite/7, and have wrath, but I just feel as if whenever I see her, she's going to grab a boombox and blast 'Wake me up Inside.'
It's just how I interpret things. Let's just leave it at that for now.
hollow dock
Oh well. that's just on you then.
I get that same feeling when I see literally anything undead.
proven sequoia
Yep.
hollow dock
Hell delaryn gives me that vibe anytime I see a picture of her in the warfront area
proven sequoia
Nathanos also, for me.
meager zodiac
what shandris and umbric have a nice talk lol
she asks his point of view on power and its abuse and she liked his answer
and umbric is under her orders in the voldun incursion
twin furnace
i give it a 10/10
hollow dock
Why does this sound like it was recorded in someones basement? @twin furnace
dense plover
what does this have to do with ptr spoilers?
twin furnace
I'm OfFeNdEd
tight widget
You should be. XD
north storm
Heavy Metal Poisoned Dwarf
lucid steeple
I think i saw a spoiler of a new seahorse mount that looked like the frount had hooves and the back was a normal seahorse tail im looking at wowhead mounts and im not seeing it?
tulip sun
Hippocampus
uncut vault
It was teased at a Blizzcon for 8.2, not in the files yet
lucid steeple
did they say how you would get it i would think run the raid on mythic.
tight widget
For some reason, this channel keeps telling me new messages, and clicking on and off the channel , doesn't fix anything.
hollow dock
its a discord bug
tight widget
I find scrolling up a bit and clicking on the blue bar gets rid of it, sometimes.
unique crag
I guess no new build until next Tuesday
uncut vault
Which is expected, but a bit worrying on the class side of things
hollow dock
its turkey week. The devs need a break for the family too :v
sullen dagger
i think it's my favvorite festivity in-game
the killstreak minigame is friggin awesome
dense plover
well remember port, we are going to have 8.1.5 before the next raid
so theres still MORE class changes that can be made post-8.1
uncut vault
We’re not getting 8.1.5 before Battle of Dazar’alor though, before Crucible, sure, but we don’t know if they’ll do any meaningful changes then if they didn’t now either
dense plover
uh
isnt 8.1.5 before raid release?
thats how nighthold worked
yes
that is how nighthold worked
and how this will probably work
raid is in january
they literally said so at blizzcon
"Raid Release Date
At BlizzCon 2018, Patch 8.1 was revealed to release on December 11th. The raid will come later in Patch 8.1, sometime after the holidays. No specific date has been given for the raid."
literally the earliest is january
this is essentially the same release schedule as 7.1, 7.1.5, and nighthold
uncut vault
8.1.5 hasn’t been tested or released in any way, and they’re not doing all that testing in less than a month after 8.1 launches
dense plover
8.1.5 even has timewalking
uncut vault
The raid is tied to 8.1, it’s just coming later
dense plover
porter
uncut vault
Same as the PvP and M+ season
dense plover
its literally one week behind the legion release schedule
7.1.5 went on ptr the week after 7.1
uncut vault
7.1 was also in October