Oh for azerite.
#beta-ptr-spoilers
hollow dock
grizzled sleet
tranquil steeple
oh, wow.. that's a lot of choices in the outermost ring
hollow dock
Confront Nathanos Blightcaller.```
Oh hey. That's his dagger/sword thing from the cinematic isn't it Port?also they changed one of the goals of the Alliance side of Darkshore.
tranquil steeple
the one when fighting Zul? yeah
hollow dock
it's no longer to stop the horde, just confront them
grizzled sleet
2 for each spec, but I'm a druid, 4 specs
tranquil steeple
well tbf, when you confront the horde, it is to stop them
horde/nathanos.. whatever
point is end objective is the same
hollow dock
Well the specific text was "Stop them from raising the night elves"
to "Go and fight them"
Is why I'm pointing it out, Sela.
tulip sun
Hm
hollow dock
at least they're just conceding on that point. Again I really want to meet the QA team who approved Darkshore's first iteration.
ionic terrace
I uh think darkshore WF is bugged
uncut vault
it was lilian, not garona thats fine with it
curious what the Hall of Ritual is, cant recall where its from
tulip sun
Interesting
tulip sun
I like Garona's dialogue
royal orchid
tulip sun
Porter, what about the others?
tranquil steeple
ooooo
tulip sun
Does Lasan for example have anything
hollow dock
Oh that looks nice!
meager zodiac
so i assume the voldun incursion alliance side is mostly complete and stable
tulip sun
Ya
uncut vault
No others got new dialogue
tulip sun
I am sorry but I doubt Sethrak got new stuff
hollow dock
So they aren't twisting his mind as they raise him, but afterwords, Port?
meager zodiac
yeah but its good to see it fixed
grizzled sleet
Sethrak will choose a side a the end of the expansion, they will feel the need to bring help to fight old gods and stuff
uncut vault
Yes, we've known that for a while
hollow dock
Alrighty. Thanks port.
hollow dock
So they're going to try and assassinate Kathy and Jaina with Derek.
tulip sun
Aiding their allies
hollow dock
Wait. Didn't Garona get this same treatment?
how come I feel like Katherine is going to die on the next patch but Jaina be spared
terse patrol
@tulip sun whats that from
terse patrol
ugh
Katherine’s VA even said she wanted to play her for a long time, if I recall
That’d suck if she’s offed
hollow dock
You're famous for these sort of feelings Honk, really not getting those vibes about this one huh
terse patrol
hush up
hollow dock
I'm being sincere D=
tulip sun
Honk
I believe that was Talanji
But still
I don't want Katherine's VA to go. I liked her on GoT...
I know she killed innocents but that ending for her was so cruel v.v
terse patrol
Whys there a map of azuremyst
hollow dock
It is an alliance island
terse patrol
inb4 azuremyst warfront
hollow dock
would complete the Silvermoon warfront if that ever happens
terse patrol
I mean
unique crag
Are PTR Servers up?
terse patrol
That would solidify Kalimdor being the Hordes basically
hollow dock
Yes they are
terse patrol
And Eastern Kingdoms the Alliance’s
unique crag
oh ok
hollow dock
RIP Old maraad
uncut vault
baine doesnt actually stand up to sylvanas
just says the "this is wrong" stuff to the playert
grizzled sleet
NEW Taste of Victory Experience gained in Kul Tiras and Zandalar is increased by 10%. Does not work above level 120.
A new item
uncut vault
yet another place with a bunch of dark rangers
meager zodiac
new gear and skin tones right?
grizzled sleet
Vantus Rune is for each boss seperatly now instead of 1 Vantus for the whole raid
hollow dock
Rip. So not even baine is standing up to Sylvanas?
uncut vault
Nope, just the player in front of derek
hollow dock
sigh Well.
It at least proves more on what blizzard keeps saying.
Morally, this is corrupt. But ultimately, this benefits the horde.
sudden oak
tbh atleast its better than the hive mind thinks of "SYLVANAS IS GOING TO MAKE EVERYONE UNDEAD REEEE"
meager zodiac
dakrshore warfront right?
unique crag
Oooo Velonara
hollow dock
At least it's not as sour a feeling seeing him alive
unique crag
Yay
meager zodiac
ohhhhh i remember her now, she is a nice characther
hollow dock
all my toons that completed part 1 but not 2 still get the dialogue to play
uncut vault
We see her and a few new characters die in the blood elf heritage armor
unique crag
Velonara is like most prominent Dark Ranger other than Sylv
hollow dock
consistency, nice.
uncut vault
Im assuming we'll see the other defenders as forsaken some time soon
mystic heart
tyrande VO updated
hollow dock
wait what
uncut vault
more?
mystic heart
yea they add in this build
hollow dock
Update as in more is added or update as in replacement lines?
mystic heart
idk maybe replace or new
sudden oak
tbh I wonder why didnt Thalanor join her after he got free of the LK
hollow dock
can't wait for your youtube video on it Noone
and that's the ritual chamber
where they brainwash Derek
mystic heart
new questline?
mystic heart
wow
war campaign?
meager zodiac
but i expected that those new assets
uncut vault
nah just post-war campaign stuff
uncut vault
can talk to all the NPCs, derek included
meager zodiac
so auberbine wont be rebuilt?
meager zodiac
like how stormgard is rebuilt and serves as a hub
mystic heart
so it's new
meager zodiac
i was expecting auberbine to be rebuilt
sudden oak
oh
meager zodiac
so all those new assets are for lordanel :/
uncut vault
its for both
sudden oak
I saw the yellow name and I thought it was an npc
unique crag
@uncut vault a DH appears?
meager zodiac
oh its just lovely
unique crag
@mystic heart what is it
mystic heart
cutscene
sudden oak
omfg that ship is amazing
mystic heart
wait guys 😄
hollow dock
can't wait to see the Kul Tiran counterparts
meager zodiac
that is great to see
so i have a question, so when alliance has control of the warfront
will auberbine be rebuilt? or will we chill in bashal aran?
im curious
or will lordanel be cleaned up?
dense plover
have they gone through and replaced more of the old trees yet?
uncut vault
only around the important areas
dense plover
ugh
dense plover
i want that zone fully updated like arathi
dense plover
no
uncut vault
No, still just a model
hollow dock
fuck
hollow dock
and what's changed
uncut vault
all night elves, for one
uncut vault
Lorna and Thisalee are in velonara and Belmonts places
meager zodiac
no because auberbine looks ruined like the stormgard fortress
so i wanted to knwo if it was gonna be rebuilt
and then destroyed, and then rebuilt etc etc
uncut vault
the actual models havent changed, just the NPCs
I think its a bug
still in horde control mode
meager zodiac
i guess we still have to wait, but i realy whould like to have all those new buildings and assets as a hub like stormgard
meager zodiac
so that means its on horde control?
unique crag
Green to Horde?
ionic terrace
Ivus world boss 
uncut vault
Its the alliance world boss when alliance owns the area
grizzled sleet
@mystic heart soon?
mystic heart
where i can find the ritual chamber
uncut vault
its still in the horde phase
mystic heart
yea soon
meager zodiac
ahhhh
uncut vault
just all alliance NPCs
meager zodiac
that makes more sense, oaky
grizzled sleet
Oki 
ionic terrace
NO
zealous basalt
What's a buzzbox
ionic terrace
and some of Cata darkshore
grizzled sleet
and some of BFA darkshore
ionic terrace
lol
grizzled sleet
they will update player nightsabers the night before NPC nightsabers go live
uncut vault
but we are getting them
hollow dock
we are?
uncut vault
four of them
hollow dock
Oh well the drop mounts
talking about the ones we already have
those still haven't been updated.
reeee
hollow dock
the cult never died IIRC. just went into hiding.
uncut vault
freshly summoned
meager zodiac
very interesting, darkshore is already more interesting
uncut vault
found a bug, the skybox is only an overlay and the default is westfall
the twilights hammer has taken over most of southern darkshore
dense plover
assault WQs finally have unique icons
uncut vault
have had em for bout four builds lol
uncut vault
Yes
uncut vault
they have, Ive been doing them all over and over
dense plover
i literally checked the last build
they used the swords
or the green legion invasion bits
also, they give a new currency
uncut vault
I put in feedback that the red ones are harder to read in some areas than alliance ones, currency was added this build
uncut vault
the furbolg den is a full on horde area now
dense plover
island expedition icon changed from a boat to a treasure map
uncut vault
Kor'gar, filled with orc warriors and shamans
dense plover
5 trait azerite gear is in
meager zodiac
interesting
any other races besides night elfs and worgen? perhaps the elusive regular draenei
dense plover
the treasure boss is now named opulence
dense plover
5 trait ring example
zealous basalt
Wtb usage of all
uncut vault
Opulence was also a few builds ago
tulip sun
I am veryyyyy exciteddddd
uncut vault
didnt use the toy, looks like the spirit healer in darkshore is brynja no matter what
tulip sun
She ded tho
uncut vault
ya, and this is the shadowlands
mystic heart
tranquil steeple
meager zodiac
so tyrandes voice files changed?
mystic heart
@meager zodiac idk
but they add
sudden oak
im really diggin the new efects the val'kyr have
ionic terrace
All I know is that I was fighting the Twilights, one of them summoned a small whirlwind and then everything went to shit
sudden oak
they look awesome
mystic heart
dark rangers
sudden oak
oh god those bows
zealous basalt
Inb4 alliance only
tulip sun
I wanna play an undead elf soooooooo bad
tulip sun
O.O
zealous basalt
Wow
zealous basalt
If only they could
dense plover
zealous basalt
Give them maxed
tropic trail
A haste vers cloak?
dense plover
ring is the teleport to bfa capital ring
gaunt helm
Is this stuff on PTR?
tropic trail
Outlaw rogues leveling everywhere simultaneously cheer
hollow dock
no
uncut vault
peach, these have all been in for two builds lol
hollow dock
we're making it ourselves
hollow dock
the answer is blatently obvious. I'll have my fun.
gaunt helm
lol
zealous basalt
Inb4 mods
unique crag
@uncut vault Wait really!?
tulip sun
Darkshore is filled with so many goodies
dense plover
i played last build
unique crag
Darkshore becomes sunny?
dense plover
well
uncut vault
wowhead literally reported all of this
unique crag
Again?
unique crag
@uncut vault pls port, does Darkshore become sunny again?
dense plover
porter
dense plover
you arent looking at the image
i was showing the cost for song of the sea
which was added last build
but now has a purchase location
uncut vault
yes theyre literally in the first link
dense plover
thats not what im talking about
read what i wrote
im not saying the vendor is new
what they are selling has changed
they have new items
heirlooms, the teleport ring that was datamined a while ago, etc
zealous basalt
munches popcorn
dense plover
and the doubloon vendor has the flight whistle upgrade now
uncut vault
have been on the warfront vendor for the last two builds
uncut vault
They have
dense plover
song of the sea was added last build
and last build wasnt playable
same with the teleport rings
and why arent those items on the page you linked if thats the case?
hollow dock
He's got ya there port.
meager warren
please tell me sylvanas is a boss too in that dungeon/ raid
uncut vault
only new one from last build was song of the sea
tulip sun
Christie Golden wrote the Rastakhan's rumble song
dense plover
were the heirlooms added last build?
also
bridge is now broken
area still has an invisble wall
it isnt finished
meager warren
oh no 
zealous basalt
No she wont be a raid boss
meager warren
damnit
uncut vault
@hollow dock darkshore got more changes
hollow dock
The scenario?
uncut vault
some night elves now have can fail
wisps pop and and attack you instead
only 6 rangers are raised down from 10
uncut vault
so they are willing, they dont become wisps and choose to become dark rangers
hollow dock
Alright that's good. Do the Army of the Dark Moon still fall over like wet cardboard?
meager zodiac
perfect, better to kill them
zealous basalt
Ye
uncut vault
No, they have abilities now
zealous basalt
Those night elves are idiots
uncut vault
void empowerment and throwing their glaives
hollow dock
Oh thank god
tulip sun
So if they are not willing they become wisps
zealous basalt
Time to.kill them
tulip sun
Huh
zealous basalt
SAYS YOU YOU PIECE OF LIGHT CREATURE
hollow dock
Oh hey a male sentinel
meager zodiac
interesting, but then again only recently did the darkshore scenario get a light animation for the tyrande ritual
zealous basalt
Those are rare
uncut vault
also nightsabers around
meager zodiac
since they are empowered by the dark moon
uncut vault
they are very deadly
hollow dock
Alright then. It's decided.
dense plover
that zone be glitching
hollow dock
They do care. I'm coming back to WoW.
dense plover
i phased into regular darkshore than back to new than stuck in regular
tulip sun
People just judge too quickly.
dense plover
its very buggy still
hollow dock
yea it's that glitchy on live.
tulip sun
I am really excited though, for this choosing to come back part
hollow dock
Hell half the time my alts that did part 1 but not 2 are still getting hte dialogue triggers
tulip sun
Is it only elves? Kinda has to right?
zealous basalt
Fuck
meager zodiac
a shadow empowerement and they still become wisps of light
hollow dock
Like. Everytime I go back to Darkshore I hear Saurfang scream out "FOR THE HORDE"
tulip sun
Because I don't think Derek willingly comes back based on his reaction
meager zodiac
it seems some do, others dont
uncut vault
chances are if Sylvanas really needs to, like in an important political case of derek
she makes exceptions
tulip sun
Makes sense
meager zodiac
if the wisps return and fight back
meager zodiac
thats great actualy
uncut vault
brynja refuses
tulip sun
I love that
meager zodiac
that is a realy great detail
tulip sun
Now we just gotta examine the reasons behind Sira and Delaryn
I can't wait to learn more
meager zodiac
so its a question of choice, and now all those night elf forsaken are stupid and into the list of "kill with no remorse" of naga and saytyr
perfect!
sudden oak
@uncut vault does she give a clear answer or she just says I wont do it or something like that
hollow dock
It proves the val'kyr don't force undead alive.
the whisps made their choice
they'll respect that
tulip sun
I don't know why it would be like this
But
It might be only elves.
The choice thing?
terse patrol
why did Ivus teleport to Darkshore
uncut vault
"there are no willing souls nearby"
meager zodiac
now that its clear, im happy to anounce they are dumb and i cannot wait to see them killed, im talking about sira and delaryn
but that is great to make it clear
uncut vault
quite a few of them refuse
meager zodiac
its still something new since nathanos does note at the start that it is possible to raise night elfs, like you are supposed to be surprised
uncut vault
he no longer notes that
meager zodiac
realy, in the quest text?
tulip sun
Now my only question that remains:
meager zodiac
with "the banshee queen has plans"
meager zodiac
it still kinda implies it with "did i not make myself clear"
uncut vault
also, seems like the void thing is due to being willing, not an empowerment
so only tyrande is using void so far
zealous basalt
Only for Horde tho?
hollow dock
Ah ok. So, the void stuff is still horde only.
While the alliance never sees an ounce of void being used still?
zealous basalt
Boring
uncut vault
also a bit of a general quality of life change, the forces are closer to tyrande
hollow dock
So what's the real picture I wonder. Is Tyrande using void energies and is elune legitimately drawing from the void itself or is it something more? Elune being one of the few real gods, they can muddy the waters on what's happening.
uncut vault
not just clumped up in one area
zealous basalt
Perhaps Elune is an exception of the rule and she can have both light and shadow in her heart without forcefully being good or bad?
mystic heart
guys when u log out or exit from game
do u have a freeze of game?
hollow dock
Well we already know Light and Void aren't explicitly good or evil. They're just energies.
But we had that patch in for the Night Warrior ritual to not be of actual void we know of.
meager zodiac
like i think the sisters of the moon fight in the tomb, ilustrates her nature well. its both, its also nature and arcane and its harmony and balance
hollow dock
It's just an inky blackness. Which is nothing like any other void magic we see being used, even from the Void Elves updated spells.
zealous basalt
Again this could prove
hollow dock
Gah I hate it when companies do this thinking they're clever @_@ Different perspectives are great and all but there needs to be an underlying truth to it all. Not two completely different events.
zealous basalt
That Elune is just
Far away from the levels of a normal void being or light being
hollow dock
that could be it Mak.
meager zodiac
i wouldnt be surprised if the "dark side of the moon " ability is going to be updated to look more like the moon in the sky
and less purple void
hollow dock
Just wish blizz was more clear on it.
uncut vault
tyrande is going hard into void stuff
first is Dark of the Moon, second is Eclipse
tulip sun
Hm...
Is it biased perspectives? Or is it actually something void-like
Porter, is Delaryn in the warfront?
uncut vault
mind control was removed on Tyrande
brynja now uses an Umbral Bind, which pulls her away from the ritual
tyrande is lagging my game with how much void shes using
dense plover
am i missing something with the tol dagor scenario? it says to speak with the warden
but i cant
meager zodiac
its purple, if it was dark blue like the moon
dense plover
its the wrong type of purple
they have a palette for designing effects
this is not from the void palette
uncut vault
its the pre-BfA effects
her orbs were used by shadow priests all through legion
summoned one every void form
meager zodiac
so it can change right? there was recently new particles for her ritual
the dark moonwell
dense plover
it probably will
meager zodiac
dense plover
lots of stuff is still in transition
meager zodiac
if they did the same effect on the ground
as the moonwell has, a dark blue mist, it would be perfect to me
weak lagoon
The mythic mail set still desperately needs thigh/hip geosets.
Looks so incomplete without.
Also it's strange... in Darkshore the zone, even under Alliance control, instead of seeing the Emerald Islet, you see the Goblin platform and stuff off the coast.
And Lor'danel is still blighted.
ETc.
The zone is so ugly now, even if the graphical fidelity is updated.
uncut vault
its a bug, they swapped the NPCs but didnt swap the assets
weak lagoon
So sad. 8(
Oh really>
?
Makes sense.
But yeah so much of the zone is clear-cut now.
uncut vault
there are restored versions of the assets for both lordanel and auberdine
meager zodiac
in restropective a month of testing seems wise in their part
weak lagoon
The plate set is still fugly.
Mail has potential.
It just needs the hip 3D pieces.
tulip sun
I love the forsaken mail
meager zodiac
if they update those shadow powers to look more elune like its going to be an epic fight imo
weak lagoon
I am also just so, so, so annoyed they made male and female versions of melee and priest units.
Sigh.
I mean I know canonically males have been able to be Sentinels and stuff for awhile now.
But at least in-game it wasn't really represented.
That was nice.
Why would Blizzard change the absolute COOLEST thing about Night Elf culture?
It's like they systematically go down the list of "stuff that made Night Elves cool" and make it their job to cross out every one of those things.
meager zodiac
of the list of things that made night elfs cool, honestly the gender divide was the one I always less cared about
weak lagoon
It was one of my favorites.
The whole "badass female warriors" trope is one of my favorite things.
meager zodiac
even story wise, after teldrassil, and their culture being in true danger
weak lagoon
I guess the only positive is you don't see hardly any Mages in Darkshore. At least I haven't found any.
meager zodiac
i would assume keeping the sentinel army running and other institutions alive is more important than the traditional roles
weak lagoon
I mean being "undermanned" doesn't seem to stop them from sending a huge squad of Sentinels to die in Nazmir.
tulip sun
I love that the coat hangs down
weak lagoon
It's still dumb though, @meager zodiac
meager zodiac
yeah a bit, but its rule of cool
they dont realy think about stuff as deeply as we do sometimes
weak lagoon
Like that's not a "suicide squad" that's a huge army being thrown away when like... right before that chronologically, you've got Genn saying "That's the last of the soldiers, we'll be calling up farmers next".
meager zodiac
🤷
weak lagoon
Like you can't turn war losses into drama one moment and then the next moment make it clear the losses are irrelevant. It takes the wind out of the sails of the drama you just made.
hollow dock
I mean
tulip sun
Well they need a believable distraction
hollow dock
All war losses are irrelevant
Remember the Scourge war?
and the "devastating" results of the Wrath gate?
weak lagoon
@hollow dock The problem comes when the story ALSO tries to use those losses as a plot point / drama moment.
See: the cinematic.
Either they don't matter or they matter. They can't not matter AND matter at the same time.
hollow dock
I mean. Again. Wrath did it as well.
weak lagoon
Wrath didn't ever really have the story beats hang off of it though.
Yes a lot of people died but it was never used to tug at heart strings or be relevant.
weak lagoon
Of course I did.
hollow dock
made specifically for that oneevent?
Where it's a shocking betrayal and death of a beloved alliance hero and an aspiring hordehero?
hollow dock
but turns out the losses at the Wrath gate ended up not mattering at all as the war continued?
since we also saw horde warriors literally melting into goop
weak lagoon
But the story generally never cares about soldier losses.
hollow dock
and being burned alive.
weak lagoon
You don't get it at all do you?
hollow dock
Wrath gate showed that with blight.
tulip sun
It was a simple sentence in a cinematic
weak lagoon
Like there have to be stakes, right? Without stakes there's no drama.
tulip sun
Wouldn't call it a huge plot point
unique crag
Wooo Lor'themar is using the new model
weak lagoon
So when it one moment there's stakes, you can't then remove those stakes in the next story beat because it pulls the legs out from under the drama you just made.
meager warren
would you say the kul'tiran humans are obese?
weak lagoon
This is like storytelling 101.
hollow dock
yea. and wrath gate was a highstakes thing as it was supposedly the majority of the 7th legion's push, as well as the horde equivalent, into northrend. Lost there, but then completely ignored everywhere else and the war continues like normal.
weak lagoon
Right. And that's how they ALWAYS do it, Des. It's fine there because it's a huge loss but you're not at the same time trying to hang other things off of the deaths.
Like if you're going to say losses are irrelevant, they have to ALWAYS be irrelevant.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
hollow dock
and they are?
meager warren
what
hollow dock
Like. Apparently Lordaeron wasn't as much of a loss either
because despite it
the 7th legion still has a huge presence everywhere else. As do the alliance.
zealous basalt
That was a bad analogy
weak lagoon
@hollow dock Are you really this obtuse?
meager warren
yes he is
hollow dock
I'm either mentally retarded or you're explaining it really poorly.
meager warren
how's it feel, des
zealous basalt
What is the issue tho
hollow dock
I don't see the issue of the one line about sending in farmers when that's always been an implied thing when they keep losing so many soldiers
zealous basalt
This reminds me back then when people
Were complaining on an unfinished scenario that got heavy feedback and boom
weak lagoon
Okay. Look. Here's how this works from a storytelling perspective.
In order to create engagement in a story, you have to have stakes, right?
If the characters don't care and the writers don't care, why should we care?
So.
zealous basalt
Because we are paying for it you dolt
mystic heart
all what i find mroe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzScPjI0MUA
weak lagoon
This is the primary issue with the whole "numbers don't matter" situation. Because to make defeats in war have weight, the story will want to try and call attention to deaths and the like.
So you care.
mystic heart
@uncut vault do u find any cutscenes on this questlines?
hollow dock
Right. That's why the whole thing of Teldrassil hit hard.
uncut vault
in darkshore, none other than the previous two, which still arent implemented
hollow dock
It greatly reduced, or at least in theory, the fighting power of the night elves.
uncut vault
but we've seen both of them
through datamining of the tyrande one, and the blizzcon preview of the cineamtic
weak lagoon
@hollow dock Not the fighting power necessarily. The vast majority of the army was away and everyone who died at Teldrassil was civillian.
hollow dock
So then what's the big sin they committed?
meager warren
"because we are paying for it you dolt"
wow, great answer. 10/10 would recommend
people paying for something doesn't make that something interesting, you dolt
zealous basalt
Shut the fuck up
meager warren
after you, love
hollow dock
Was it that they say the farmer line but have shown everywhere else (prior to this line being said canonically) that it's not really the case?
zealous basalt
After you provide something constructive and just try to put your opinions as facts without knowing lore
weak lagoon
@hollow dock Okay so. Take the cinematic. The mood in the beginning is supposed to be solemn. You've got the view from the docks, the bodies lined up, the line about "we'll be calling up farmers next". It's sullen and dark and is what leads Anduin to go to Saurfang's cell. It's good drama.
terse patrol
@uncut vault btw did the Alliance incursions in Voldun get added in?
meager warren
when did i say anything about my opinions as facts?
uncut vault
Yes, theyre back
meager warren
you seem to do that a lot more than i do
uncut vault
currently active
zealous basalt
Everytine you speak
meager warren
wow, nice
hollow dock
Right. It built up nicely and fits in with what's going on in Kul Tiras and Zuldazar.
terse patrol
Anything new?
meager warren
and everytime i comment, you're there to be a total ass
hollow dock
Which I have to note, this is the first time in 14 years they've ever acknowledged that they are running out of an army.
zealous basalt
Better an ass than an ignorant
meager warren
just for you, bb
weak lagoon
Exactly. It's great. But the problem comes when 5 minutes later you go back to the way things are presented in-game. The problem is you've got the storytellers on one side dealing with heavy emotional stuff but they're being undercut by the way the game presents that story in a totally different manner that cuts everything the storytellers are trying to do off at the knees.
It's like in that one novel.
hollow dock
Ah ok. Right. I get ya now.
weak lagoon
When Thrall is lamenting how the wars have "hollowed out" the Orcs.
Everyone's either young or old.
zealous basalt
So you want changes reflected in game?
hollow dock
yea andthe orcs in game are all prideful and strapping young lads ready to die for the horde.
weak lagoon
Which is a great moment!
hollow dock
which absolutely doesn't reflect what they're supposed to be according tothe story
weak lagoon
The problem is that the game then instantly invalidates that moment by paying it no mind because numbers are irrelevant.
meager zodiac
So i want to share those new pictures the new shadow abilities that tyrande uses in the darkshore questline, but i wann know how likely it is of it beign a place holder for new particles?
zealous basalt
But I think that's the issue with the game itself limitations
And its*
Man I'm so hungry I ate those
weak lagoon
Of course, the storytellers KNOW numbers are irrelevant. So it's kind of irresponsible to try and write these powerful moments relating to losses and death and whatnot when they know it will never be backed up.
meager zodiac
cause i wanna know if its probable those shadow particles are just a place holder or simply the effects present
hollow dock
The disconnect between the story and the game is like saying apples are really great red oranges.
hollow dock
or like how Pre-patch was supposed to be this horrible war that Elegy/A Good War showed, but clearly wasn't.
zealous basalt
Remember the burning when we had to save everyone and the number we were aiming was 900?
sudden oak
982 to be exact if im not mistaken
zealous basalt
Ye, like that?
weak lagoon
The other problem is that when you do keep writing these storytelling moments about sadness and death and whatnot and then nothing comes of it, players/readers will become numb to it because they know it doesn't matter. Why should you care about a moment of drama relating to loss when you know the next time a massive horde of Orcish soldiers are required, they'll be there! The drama is meaningless.
hollow dock
Yea, but sadly. Thanks to them not having really cared or tried to make the story cinematic-like, really until MoP, people had already kinda stopped caring and just accepted that both sides have a factory to make all the soldiers.
Or grow them from the ground like saibamen.
sudden oak
I still wonder how am I able to remember this kind of things but not what i had for dinner yesterday
zealous basalt
Lol
But you know how do I think they could solve it?
New azeroth revamp and have the new quests caring about those numbers
hollow dock
Noooooooooooooooo
No no no no no
No more massive revamps
it's to much time, money and energy
sudden oak
someone said new azeroth revamp? 
zealous basalt
So just new ways to storytelling?
hollow dock
The only way to absolutely fix this right
is to stop making WoW.
and move it solely into comics and books.
that is how you fix the storytelling
zealous basalt
I think that's the issue with this kind of game
hollow dock
MMOs are terrible for trying to tell a story. Unless built from the very start, it's so hard to get it across.
zealous basalt
At cata quests number dont care
hollow dock
Like Total had just pointed out.
zealous basalt
And I mean
We kinda do that rule when raiding
Unless something like chronicles says how many people were needed for that feat
The issue is that they cant rwally do that because the PC exists
But ye, I kinda agree with both of you
zealous basalt
Think the twilight hammer would explain the twilight dragonflight?
meager zodiac
that tyrande/anduin cinematic style of ingame stuff is always so wonky to me
sudden oak
im sure its wonky for everyone
zealous basalt
lol
zealous basalt
I SWEAR
IF WE DON'T GET A TERMINATOR AND ROBOCOP REFERENCE IN MECHAGON
I WILL RIOT
fierce crane
Well it is accurate
knotty parcel
so actually at the final patches of BfA there will be siege of orgrimmar 2? (or something like this)
feral dune
hollow dock
They didnt deny the tree would burn
They misled people on whether or not it was a morally grey act
tulip sun
I was totally convinced it was not Sylvanas by the way they were talking
hollow dock
Indeed. and I called it would be the horde as the event revealed no other members involved in the war. Just alliance and horde. and nothingon the alliance gave any hints towards them going at the tree.
knotty parcel
@tulip sun if saurfang was not captured he might do this
hollow dock
The issue is: No other horde leader seems to want to rebel against sylvanas.
While baine has his moral outcry's against her, there's nothing really that she's legitimately doing that's wronging the horde.
If this changes in 8.2, then sure. A second siege might happen, but unlike Garrosh, Sylvanas has further unified the horde. Not driven it apart.
sullen dagger
^
i think that the alliance will kill sylvannas
as the horde r/n cant
excep if they rebel with saurfang, but alas, that would betray the horde itself
knotty parcel
she's partly banshee
hollow dock
While I'll concede that yes, the structure of BFA's story so far has been similar to MoP, it's really not leading the same direction.
knotty parcel
maybe she'll also revive herself
hollow dock
Oh she absolutely can. She has 3 val'kyr left
sullen dagger
not without her valkyrs
hollow dock
3 lives, unless the writing team wants to use up all 3 val'kyr in one go like they did in Silverpine for some reason
knotty parcel
and blizzard can't do it
there are people that main undead from before BC
so they maybe like her
idk
hollow dock
there were people that main'd human since Vanilla and they killed Varian
people playing undead or liking her as a character doesn't protect her
hollow dock
What protects her is the usefulness to the story. I personally do not believe she will die this expac, at least. Not permanently.
I feel they'll use up the last of her val'kyr in this last one, or two new ones will be added in specifically to raise Sylvanas. As a theory of mine is that it took 1 val'kyr to raise her in Edge of Night. 3 to raise her again in Silverpine. so 5 the next time?
knotty parcel
what do you mean
frozen dust
That would make sense if it gets more difficult each time, yeah
hollow dock
and when she runs out of prime val'kyr, faced with imminent, permanent, death: She surrenders.
knotty parcel
soo what about her "champion"
hollow dock
Nathanos? Mhmm.
He's a bit tricky.
While he's shown instances of a bit wavering of faith towards her, he still keeps it.
So I think if Sylvanas continues down this "arthas-like" path
he'll eventually stop believing in her.
hollow dock
Well he was a lover of Sylvanas.
knotty parcel
i only knows that sylvanas really goes like arthas
hollow dock
The first ranger inducted into the Farstriders that was a human, at behest of Sylvanas that is.
He also died in defense of Quel'thalas.
knotty parcel
same as sylvanas did?
hollow dock
Sylvanas sought him out specifically in the ghostlands when she broke free and captured his cousin to give Nathanos a new body.
as Nathanos didn't entirely break free.
knotty parcel
got it
sullen dagger
fun fact: hes' actually called morris
hollow dock
Nathanos denied the idea that Sylvanas still loved him. undead, and by extension Forsaken, don't have that sort of capacity he says, but the Val'kyr simply laughed at him fo rbeing so naive.
sullen dagger
or marris?
knotty parcel
morris sounds better for me
he was called nathanos marris
@sullen dagger
also i'm wondering another thing
what will happen with the night elves?
hollow dock
Now in Before the Storm, he notes that Sylvanas might be going a bit warmongerish in wanting to eradicate stormwind and raise them as undead. She admits he's right, how we take it is really up to us.
In her warbringers, Nathanos doesn't give the signal to burn the tree immediately and hesitates.
after she ordered him, it took her doing it twice.
knotty parcel
yeah i remember
hollow dock
The night elves will fight in darkshore to take their home back. Those with Tyrande get empowered by the Night Warrior she has become and getting those inky black eyes.
knotty parcel
so teldrassil will no longer be their home?
hollow dock
No.
sullen dagger
well, it's burnt to the ground
hollow dock
It's a burnt husk
sullen dagger
i doubt it could be nothink akin to a home for nelves
sullen dagger
honestly? they should retake gilneas and stablish there with worgen
hollow dock
Just like Vordrassil was abandoned up in Northrend, they have to abandon this one.
hollow dock
Either taking up in the cleansed Shaladrassil or Gilneas.
knotty parcel
so they might plant another one?
hollow dock
Grizzly Hills
sullen dagger
or out of bounds?
hollow dock
and nah. They won't plant a new World Tree.
The massive toppled over tree in Grizzly Hills is Vordrassil.
A world tree.
hollow dock
unless they can get the aspectsto bless it so that it doesn't corrupt the land, a new world tree won't be planted.
sullen dagger
but there's no aspects anymore
hollow dock
exactly
sullen dagger
so no more world tree
eh
idiot idea
but very blizzard
what of the clense teldrassil with azerite
knotty parcel
so what happens with the aspects
knotty parcel
i mean what happens after defeating death wing
hollow dock
Ysera's dead, Nozdormu is going to die eventually, Kalecgos is in Dalaran and Alextrasza is overlooking Wyrmrest tower.
and deafwin is deafwin.
and ded
knotty parcel
oof.
hollow dock
They don't hold the titanic power to watch over azeroth now so they're just normal dragons at this point
They live their lives and wait for the inevitability of being hunted into extinction. As the flights can no longer breed.
knotty parcel
but the thing with siege of zandalar
hollow dock
Maybe Azerite changes this as seen with the Black Dragons but we'll have to wait for blizzard to update us on that.
Right, what about it?
knotty parcel
it will be alliance raid right?
hollow dock
It's an alliance and horde raid.
knotty parcel
because i've head that zandalari will be allied race because of this
hollow dock
Horde plays out the alliance part after they reach Rastakhan.
Alliance plays out the horde side after beating Rastakhan.
and the Zandalari were always going to be an allied race, it's just with this siege they solidify it.
hollow dock
So far that seems false. People said that based on the alpha and beta builds.
Kul Tirans will also join after the siege is done.
knotty parcel
yeah ik
tropic trail
They also change our races when we do the other parts of the Zuldazar raid.
knotty parcel
but they're not as "good upgrade" as zandalari
kul tiran humas are a little bit tall and more plump
while zandalari trolls are better looking of the blackspear trolls
hollow dock
They have really good passives.
knotty parcel
idk their passives
hollow dock
Kul Tirans get a small hot for taking damage, (heal over time) reduce damage on frost and nature(I think it was frost and nature anyways), and have a knockback that also stuns after the knockback.
tropic trail
I find it funny that people cry about elves, but we have just as many human races.
tropic trail
4 humans, 4 elves
hollow dock
What are the other two humans?
tropic trail
Which 2 did you count?
hollow dock
Kul tirans and Humans.
tropic trail
Gilneans/worgen
hollow dock
Gilneans are worgen.
tropic trail
Lordaeronians/undead.
hollow dock
and Worgen aren't human. they're worgen.
tropic trail
Technically human
tranquil steeple
as far as playable character/races go, Worgen and Undead are exactly that; Worgen and Undead
not humans
sullen dagger
by the same system
hollow dock
they shapeshift into human form, but they are still Worgen.
tropic trail
Lorewise still human-ish.
hollow dock
Even by lore they are not human, they are worgen.
When Genn is addressed, it is as the Worgen king.
Not human.
sullen dagger
elves are devolved trolls, fite me
tropic trail
King of Gilneas, the human kingdom.
tropic trail
Some still are, but they are minority.
tropic trail
Worgen
hollow dock
Worgen
knotty parcel
humanish or wolvish?
sullen dagger
worgen.
hollow dock
Which is why they are Worgen and not Human
man
Worgen sounds weird now
we've said it to many times
it stopped sounding like a word
tropic trail
Lol
hollow dock
anways. 4 elf races. 2 human races. 1 undead race. 1 wolf race.
that's how the player races got divvied up
tropic trail
2 Orcs 
hollow dock
technically 6 trolls if we want to use technicalities.
knotty parcel
it depends how you look it
hollow dock
and by that logic we do have playable Vrykul
knotty parcel
if you look it in azeroth
hollow dock
since that's what the humans are.
tropic trail
Do you think any of the other trolls will become playable?
tropic trail
Amani is the forest trolls
The current trolls are physically the same as the Gurubashi
hollow dock
No they aren't
different societies, different outlooks on life, different people.
Physically they look the same
Kinda like humans
tropic trail
The high elves care not for all the people who got murdered by the scourge, Starts playing "Lament of the Highborne"
hollow dock
Yes they do
What they didn't care for was killing living things to sate their addiction
Which is what the blood elves wanted to do.
knotty parcel
they had no choice
tropic trail
Did'nt most of them become withered?
knotty parcel
they are hungry for magic
hollow dock
No
and yes
they did have a choice
they chose to kill living things to sate their addiction
tropic trail
Become withered or use fel magic to sate your mana addiction.
hollow dock
Withered isnt' what the High Elves became
Withered only was a product from the NIght Well
NOT the Sunwell
knotty parcel
that's why malfurion (if i'm right) kicked them as night elves
hollow dock
The High Elves never withered.
tropic trail
The withered in the starting zone are what then?
hollow dock
Those are Wretched
which is draining to much magic
the complete opposite of the Withered
tropic trail
Sorry, wrong teminology.
hollow dock
which is draining no magic
tropic trail
But their eyes are blue.