also where's alliances choice quest??? Horde bias!
#beta-ptr-spoilers
jovial skiff
hardy hedge
"You and 66.6% other players decided to side with Sylvanas."
zealous basalt
You understimate it
uncut vault
Way more people I know just dislike Saurfang, regardless of their opinion on Sylvanas
zealous basalt
I as alliance support Syl more than Saurf tbh
uncut vault
They really didn’t paint him in a good light, especially not after these quests
hardy hedge
I am going to be honest. Unless Saurfang eats puppies, there is no way people would side with Sylvanas
Liek why would you not side with Saurfang? What has he done? :l
zealous basalt
Being the one responsible of all the madness of the plan?
hardy hedge
But Sylvanas is the one that convinces him to it o_O
zealous basalt
She says "lets do it"
He gets hyped and puts plan on table
And everything goes super for him
until he loses the mak'gora with Malfurion
hardy hedge
That's not true. Saurfang initially is slightly retinicent to the idea, Sylvanas convinces him and then they go on
Things like Teldrassil's burning were not Saurfang's plan. It was literally something Sylvanas did on the spot
zealous basalt
Because there was nothing else left to do after he left Malfurion alive?
hardy hedge
That's not true. Sylvanas didn't do that because of Malfurion. The original plan was occupy Teldrassil. But Delaryn's words changed Sylvanas's mind and she decided to make an example of Teldrassil.
In fact Saurfang tries to call down the siege but by the time he does the tree is already burning
zealous basalt
Because with Malfurion still alive the elves would still put a fight against them
With Malfurion dead they would at least (in theory) surrender easily
hardy hedge
That's not true. The original plan was to, again, invade Teldrassil and occupy it
zealous basalt
And kill Malfurion
hardy hedge
Malfurion was too injuried to put on a fight
zealous basalt
Check it again
hardy hedge
Again, Sylvanas's didn't change her mind because of Malfurion. She changed her mind after speaking with Delaryn.
hollow dock
Chara
zealous basalt
The original plan was killing Malfurion to crush the hopes of the Night elves
hollow dock
Chara
Chara
The original plan was kill Malfurion and take the tree
demoralize the elves
that failed
Saurfang didn't kill Malfurion
the elves have hope
zealous basalt
With Malfurion alive they would be still strong
And that would mean a big waste of resources for horde
hollow dock
Delaryn's words about hope in spite of so much death gave her the idea to set the tree ablaze
and have the horde commit another genocide
hardy hedge
Yes, then again we go back to the point that the original plan was never to burn Teldrassil. Sylvanas came with that idea on the spot, not Saurfang. That isn't to say that he is not guilty of helping and going on with all of it. But then again every Horde soldier is guilty of that.
zealous basalt
You aren't understanding what I mean to say
hollow dock
we aren't saying saurfang came up with it either
hardy hedge
Then what are you saying?
zealous basalt
But if Saurfang would have obeyed the instructions
zealous basalt
The tree might be still there
zealous basalt
In control of the Horde
terse patrol
thralls prolly got his shaman magic back
hollow dock
the tree and hundreds of thousands of innocents would be alive
terse patrol
yall saw what he did to durnholde
zealous basalt
And Alliance maybe
terse patrol
I doubt Sylvanas could face him
hollow dock
that is why Saurfang, not directly, caused the burning of the tree
zealous basalt
For Saurfang to act like that
And then try to make him a war hero for being regretful
hardy hedge
That logic train is completely irrational.
zealous basalt
But that's what would have really happened
hollow dock
it's not
Saurfang didn't kill Malfurion
He made the original plan fail
which made Delaryn's speech more relevant
which made Sylvanas burn the three
hardy hedge
Like it's the exact same example that I get in my law classes of how culpability does not work.
hollow dock
That's literally how it unfolds in the game
zealous basalt
rather than have the fight on it
hardy hedge
You can't accuse someone of something they had no direct participation or intention
zealous basalt
Indirect
hardy hedge
Yes but the important part in culpability is the intention
hollow dock
The cause? Saurfang doesn't kill Malfurion.
We're not speaking in a court of law
this is a direct
line
of effects
with 1 cause
zealous basalt
From the book too
hollow dock
Saurfang not following orders
hardy hedge
Saurfang never, at any point, decided to burn the tree. His actions caused it to burn but he was not the one to give the order, hell he didn't even wanted that to happen
hollow dock
He never did
jade basalt
I'm not sure Delaryn knew about Malfurion's fate, so she would have said the same speech to Sylvanas either way, getting her triggered and making her snap into burning the tree
hardy hedge
It's completely irrational to call him out for that
terse patrol
I for one am looking forwards to Warchief Thrall. Time to return to a sane Horde.
hollow dock
BUT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T FOLLOW THE ORIGINAL PLAN THUS MAKING SLVANAS HAVE TO THINK OF A NEW ONE
zealous basalt
Didn't know about Malfurion being alive either
zealous basalt
Oh wait
hollow dock
a cause
hardy hedge
Then it's also Delaryn's fault that Sylvanas's burned the tree? What kind of logic is that?
zealous basalt
She knew
hollow dock
Yes
zealous basalt
...
hollow dock
It is
zealous basalt
Indirect action
hollow dock
Literally. The burning would havebeen avoided had 1 of 2 things happen
Saurfang kill Malf
and bring the head
or
Had saurfang not intervene
andkill Syvlanas
hardy hedge
Yes but no character knew about it. It's absurd to call them out for that.
zealous basalt
About what?
ancient forge
hollow dock
Hindsight is always 20/20
ancient forge
talked with this guy few min ago 😄
hollow dock
However, when a building falls
hardy hedge
Saying that Saurfang is guilty of the burning of Teldrassil and that it is hypocrital for him to be put as a war hero now
hollow dock
Do you not blame the engineer who forgot the one screw?
How did he know that screw would make the building falland kill all those people?
zealous basalt
But Chara
hollow dock
he'd still be guilty for killing everyone even though he had no intentions of doing it.
zealous basalt
you are forgetting that Saurfang
hardy hedge
Yes, but you can't say he murdered those people. Because there is no direct intention of it.
zealous basalt
Realized that was his fault too
hollow dock
We never said he did
but his actions
got people killed
That is what we are saying
Saurfang realizes this
his actions, and inaction, caused people to get killed
hollow dock
It is because of his inaction and actions that innocents.
Children.
Civilians
burned alive.
zealous basalt
He feels responsible
And again, that's why he doesn't
want to make a mak'gora
with Sylvanas
hollow dock
Just like with Peter Parker in the Spiderman comics
Peter feels guilty for Uncle Ben
zealous basalt
Like
zealous basalt
what I am saying is not my own words
hollow dock
But because of his inaction to stop someone with a gun
that led to Ben getting shot
Peter is the reason why Ben got shot
Do you understand that now?
zealous basalt
Indirect
meager warren
what is this argument about
hardy hedge
I get your point. But you are trying to put it as if it was hypocrital of Saurfang to actually realise he fucked up and try to undo Sylvanas's Horde. My whole point was that there is no moral reasonw hy anybody would side with Sylvanas.
zealous basalt
And there is no reason someone would side with Saurfang either
terse patrol
Anyone else annoyed the Horde get two special scenarios/questlines in 8.1 and the Alliance dont?
hollow dock
there's hundreds of reasons to be loyal to Sylvanas
meager warren
no, they're suck ups
hardy hedge
I said moral reasons.
zealous basalt
It's a war
hollow dock
Is it not moral to be loyal?
hollow dock
Is that not a moral people have?
hardy hedge
You can't claim that loyalty is a virtue when it causes evil.
hollow dock
It is a vritue. Of evil.
hardy hedge
It's like saying obedience is moral when it's evil.
zealous basalt
You shut up and be nice
hardy hedge
In our world
hollow dock
In this world
zealous basalt
Azeroth isn't our world
hardy hedge
But we are not in Azeroth, are we?
hardy hedge
That doesn't mean their actions are moral from our point of view.
zealous basalt
They don't realize it though
hardy hedge
Even then. We had the clear example of Garrosh, who was considered evil by everyone's standard in universe (Except his)
hollow dock
except
he wasn't
Zaela fell in love with him.
Grommash approved of him.
The orcs on Draenor respected him
jade basalt
@uncut vault Were the Voidlike effect from Tyrande only for Horde ? On Alliance it looks like a generic moon crash
hollow dock
the orcs loyal to him respected and loved him
hardy hedge
Yes but the Horde as a whole denied him and his moral compass
hollow dock
The rest of the horde that he left saw him as evil, yes this is true.
but again
that's one side ofit
hollow dock
It doesn't make Vol'jin and his rebels right and Garrosh Wrong. It just makes two opposing of a conflict.
hardy hedge
Yes but we are playing with the same Horde that left him
zealous basalt
those fps
hollow dock
Where this a single player game, I'm certain we would have been with him or against him
like any other RPG
but to make a raid work, you need to be against the enemies
hardy hedge
That wouldn't have made him good.
uncut vault
She doesn’t have her new abilities on A side, just uses Starfall @jade basalt
hardy hedge
Just because someone thinks killing dogs is good, for example, doesn't make it good.
uncut vault
Which. Her starfall is old starfall
hollow dock
it doesn't make it evil as again. It's subjective.
zealous basalt
Seems more incomplete alliance part
hardy hedge
There are no viewpoints in animals. They don't have rationale. But evil and good have absolutes.
hollow dock
Except when they don't. As again, we make them. They are not natural. A chimp feels no remorse in killing others of its kind.
nor do other prime apes.
meager warren
animals don't have any idea what evil is so they can't be, by definition. Either way, they're not hostile with intention. They kill stuff to eat them.
Humans (and orcs, gnomes, etc in wow) know what evil is, since they've created the concept of evil.
hollow dock
thank you arson. that goes to further prove my point
meager warren
no it doesn't?
hardy hedge
You can't use animals as example of any rational behavior because they can't think in the same level as humans. However, most human beings have at least traces of empathy that show them at some level that what they do is wrong. Regardless of whatever they choose to follow them or not.
hollow dock
we created the notion of what is good and what is evil
it's not something thats actually natural.
Except that they can. I'm using animals that have been shown to match human levels of intelligence.
hardy hedge
No, those animals don't have human levels of intelligence.
zealous basalt
pst
meager warren
oh yes, because flies match human levels of intelligence
zealous basalt
hollow dock
Regardless. Let's finish this up.
Saurfang is no more good or evil than Sylvanas is in terms of this story. There's perfect reason within the universe to follow either.
hardy hedge
Please if someone ever calls you on court don't say this is stuff.
zealous basalt
That was uncalled for
hollow dock
be respectful, yea?
hardy hedge
I don't say it in an insultive way. I mean it because that's not how morality really works. You can't just say "Evil and good don't exist" to showcaste the idea that any moral action is subjective.
meager warren
well maybe, but Sylvanas is much more stupid
zealous basalt
People have different views of morals
hollow dock
I knwo that's yhow morality works in the real world you dolt
zealous basalt
What is bad for you I could find it normal
hollow dock
This isn't the real world
we're speaking about a fictional world where people can be loyal to a genocidal monster and it's perfectly reasonable
meager warren
<@&299347348847329281> name-calling
hollow dock
^
meager warren
that's not nice
hollow dock
Anything to stab away at me, ey Arson?
meager warren
yes
zealous basalt
Gods
meager warren
just like you get anything to stab away at me 
hollow dock
I tried to end it.
meager warren
right
hollow dock
If I were ever playing Horde, I'd most certainly stay with my warchief.
zealous basalt
Why, because I would get pissed if we were to change again
And honestly, removing morality
She is doing a good job
hollow dock
I'm lawful when evil. Warchief is law.
west relic
hollow dock
heya Thulm. Arson was trying to get me in trouble.
zealous basalt
Thulm atm : "Isn't that every day"
hollow dock
hey now
meager warren
you literally called someone a dolt
hollow dock
it's been at least a week since the last time
zealous basalt
Honestly
Your issues
Are worse than marital issues
It's that bad its getting pathetic
Next time you are going to tag mods because someone said dick
meager warren
what
zealous basalt
Have some decency and grow up
meager warren
wow, okay
zealous basalt
People have namecalled worse here
meager warren
yeah, and i call them out for it everytime
because, guess what?
it's against the rules
hollow dock
No you don't
meager warren
i do when i see it
hollow dock
You're not even here most of the time
meager warren
maybe because i have a life
zealous basalt
Not your job
west relic
A dolt is far from an insult worthy of a ping @meager warren
meager warren
alright
zealous basalt
Tell him Thulm
hardy hedge
I play a Forsaken, and honestly, I would side with Sylvanas. Even if I get the message "Sylvanas will remember this" lol
zealous basalt
There is a third option too
hollow dock
oh yea you can just fuck off
hollow dock
and not do anything
hollow dock
that's a legitimate choice
meager warren
you're trolling now
zealous basalt
because too much bs for you
hardy hedge
"You and 1% of players did not choose side."
hollow dock
We're not
meager warren
you literally are
hollow dock
that's a legitimate quest you can choose
hollow dock
It involves you heading off to the beach.
west relic
@meager warren drop it and move on.
hollow dock
because I was describing the action Arson
zealous basalt
You are followign
marsh bloom
hollow dock
Nery posted the quest but was unable to find it.
west relic
zealous basalt
You literally say
"Know what, you kill eachother"
Wtb this as canon choice pls
Kinda funny how today
We got
Choices
and a night warrior scenario being reworked
jade basalt
None of the choices are mutually exclusive technically, all three choices can happen canonically. It's just that your character only picks one.
zealous basalt
So
there are a bunch
that are sylv followers
a bunch that go with zappyboy
and then
a bunch that go party hard at Steam Pools?
jade basalt
Basically.
jade basalt
Some clearly have their priorities straight
uncut vault
This most recent patch, and 8.1 in general, kinda just feels like Blizz catching up on rounding the xpac. Between islands actually having something tangible to world towards, azerite having short, mid, and long term goals instead of all RNG, and warfronts now having a cycle that means both sides have something going on
zealous basalt
an event in the steam pool?
uncut vault
8.1 pleases me
hollow dock
8.1 is starting to please me.
meager zodiac
im happy they changed tyrande's story!
hollow dock
I still want the rest of the scenario fixed before I resub
meager zodiac
tbh only those 2 last parts need fixing
hollow dock
Not really.
meager zodiac
the rest of thee scenario with maiev and shandris is great
hollow dock
The horde side is still unchanged.
Which means that, while sure Tyrande feels powerful, none of her army does.
uncut vault
We aren’t sure if the first few quests are
hollow dock
Sira hunting you still means nothing
meager zodiac
horde side doesnt make sense because maiev only told her to scout
what is sira doing hunting the horde?
is she doing it of her own acord?
hollow dock
That's how the horde scenario went by beforehand
meager zodiac
why was she waiting for tyrande? did they meet before hand
meager zodiac
i think sira make's malfurion in valsharah look brave and noble
hollow dock
and that's why to me, the scenario still needs work before its done and acceptable in my view.
meager zodiac
"immaaggoo an fugt this dude!!!!! alone1!!!?"
hollow dock
^
meager zodiac
"aw shieeettttt
hollow dock
all of this is a good step in the right direction
meager zodiac
"im almost deeed,, hulp meee turhaaaraanda"
hollow dock
but one step is not all that needs to happen
meager zodiac
sira is just real fucking dumbass tbh
hollow dock
She isn't. But you generally don't agree with my words.
meager zodiac
she got herself killed for no reason, maiev told you to "scout!!!" honey
zealous basalt
lets remember
jovial coral
You know what would be interesting, Wrathion cinematic.
zealous basalt
that maiev made her very dirty
boi
we don't know
if they are going to touch dragon isles soon
meager zodiac
yeah, but maiev told her to scout the shore line
zealous basalt
for all I can guess
meager zodiac
not go alone into the chamption of the horde and nathanos blightcaller
zealous basalt
We aren't going to have isle expedition stuff
there is a much from the isle expeditions
that can be used
the vrykuls, the mogu
mantid
and their new empress
the dragon isles
oof
what chu think @uncut vault
zealous basalt
ye
hardy hedge
meager zodiac
im kinda laughing at the fact nathanos needs such a huge buff from the valkyr to survive tyrande
meager zodiac
nathanial the hedgehog needs a wopping 200 % extra damage and 100 % health from the flying thotys to survive
uncut vault
blizz is damned if they do, damned if they dont I guess
make him able to hold his own, hes a self insert, make him empowered by valkyr to survive, hes a wimp
meager zodiac
no im okay with this !
it makes sense
he holds himself enough, since nathanos is not a push over, but before it made tyrande look more stupid, i think this is a good middle ground
mystic heart
someone take Wisdom of the Warchief questline?
strange falcon
sullen dagger
wat
tranquil steeple
sullen dagger
@hollow dock
jovial coral
Rip
jade basalt
@hollow dock This quest says that Grong 'and his kind' were empowered by Kaja'mite too
heavy cairn
yea there's a horde side quest about that
and a world quest based on the side quest
on live
hollow dock
thats weird
on live the debuff says azerite @jade basalt
while all the hostile ones say kajamite
belmont has death sounds as well @sullen dagger @strange falcon doesn't mean they die.
hollow dock
uh huh. sure she does.
hardy hedge
Yeah. Honestly I will drop the expansion after that death
zealous basalt
I will tbag
hollow dock
oh yea no I'm sure she dies
whole cedar
people were discussing the possibility of kaja'mite actually being a subproduct of azerite
hollow dock
It was more so confusion.
As on live right now, when you see the peaceful gorillas, they have an azerite buff
while the hostile ones have a kajamite buff
So I always took it as a typo that they all are empowered by Kajamite
zealous basalt
Perhaps some were empowered by Kaja, and others by azerite?
zealous basalt
The agressive being kaja
hollow dock
while the others are hostile cuz of Kaja
zealous basalt
Ye
whole cedar
tbh knowing Grong's fate that questline made me so sad
hollow dock
Grong is a more fleshed out and developed character than most of the BFA roster tbh
jade basalt
It's not the only quest, there are others that reiterate all the gorillas were made by Kaja'mite
hollow dock
is it possible the gorillas don't know of azerite and call it Kajamite? Cuz otherwise why are the buffs there.
which is what caused my initial confusion
whole cedar
the goblins named it kaja'mite
sudden oak
maybe the kaja'mite gave them intelligence but the azerite gave them peace?
whole cedar
there were a bunch of mines on their starting area
calm hawk
kaja'mite makes things smarter azerite does not
jade basalt
This is how it went :
- all the Da'kani, aka the smart gorillas, were made smart by Kaja'mite (like goblins, thousands of years ago)
- recently, with the spring of Azerite, some were empowered by Azerite
It's not an either/or situation
hollow dock
ah alright.
Still confusing on why the peaceful ones were azerite empowered by none of the others were.
jade basalt
I haven't checked up on that yet but if that's the case, maybe Azerite made them calmer
Fun fact : even bananas can get Kaja'mite-ified !
zealous basalt
Tel'abin?
hollow dock
you knw that tel'abim isn't the only source of bananas on azeroth right, mak?
zealous basalt
I'm memeing
Like back in Warcraft channel
When everyone was making jokes
Hmm
I wonder if goblins could change with Azerite
jade basalt
The updated Tirasian heritage set looks much better than the preview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWAlHqlIkyY&feature=youtu.be
It received a collar, wooden bracers, more 3D parts on boots, etc.
Unfortunately some pieces like the boots seem rather low rez. Maybe they'll update them.
sullen dagger
wassat?
terse patrol
god fucking damn it
sullen dagger
oooh
zealous basalt
Okay
sullen dagger
but open on the front
zealous basalt
Inb4 someone puts a cloak on the coat
dense plover
Kul tiran heritage still isnt finished
It still has missing pieces according to the files
Same witht blood elf heritage
distant folio
Im sorry but which ones are missing? They seem complete from what I can tell @dense plover
dense plover
Theres some empty blps in the files
3D bits are missing
Blood elf armor is missing shoulder tassels and some boot stuff
Kul tirans have empty files
Dont know which parts off the top of my head
hollow dock
who is?
sudden oak
the rogue you go with to take over Astranaar I think it was called
hollow dock
Which is who?
zinc sandal
Is he dead now?
sudden oak
he died in a good war
hollow dock
who
tulip sun
Lorash
sudden oak
you know the rogues that made ambushes to different kaldorei outposts at the same time
hollow dock
No I don't play horde.
sudden oak
I think it was in the novelas if im not mistaken
hollow dock
again. who
zinc sandal
@hollow dock Lorash is the guy who helps Horde players kill Astranaar's guards
hollow dock
ah ok.
So he helps you in committing the genocide. neat.
Looks like he's dead too and denied an afterlife.
great.
zinc sandal
Yep.
sudden oak
how is attacking sentinels and armed warriors genocide?
hollow dock
Because that enables the horde to slaughter the civilians in Astranaar as well as burn down the tree.
Which was genocide.
Don't deny what you all did. Thrive on it
terse patrol
p sure Lorash is a baaad egg.
zealous basalt
Tho I was expecting them to give him a line of you killed everyone in Astranaar
Something like with the Lich King
terse patrol
It is funny though that Saurfang considers poisoning sentinels to be honorable tho. As well as using assassins. @hollow dock
sudden oak
also wasnt the Astranaar stuff a masive lore mess up?
hollow dock
the hordes filled with monsters (2)
Nope.
Sylvanas slaughters em all. Even if you choose to tie em up.
Forsaken assassins come by and blight the bodies
stay behind and all that
hollow dock
yes. that's before all of the invasion happening Verial
The civvies got massacred in Astranaar by the horde. Under Sylvanas' orders. Cuz you guys killed off the guards and let the banshee queen who's main tactic is assassination and blight use take care of the town.
sudden oak
you go with Lorash to kill the guards then Delaryn arrives and makes the ambush with the corpses and then Saurfang arrives
hollow dock
Except that delaryn doesn't arrive in astranaar until everyones already dead?
tulip sun
I am pretty sure it is just poison
sudden oak
arent those the same corpses the night elves gathered to make the ambush?
hollow dock
nope
The alliance arrives and everyone is dead
Guards, civilians, it didn't matter.
Forsaken assassins are everywhere. We dispatch them and run to the entrance of darkshore to erect the barrier
sudden oak
yeah but the problem is that Delaryn reached Astranaar to make the ambush to Saurfang how would she make the ambush if there were horde forces already there
hollow dock
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sudden oak
thats why I said it was a lore mess up
hollow dock
When she arrives there saurfang already moved on too.
he was in felwood by the time that the barrier is erected crossing over the Mountains
And since the game came out after A Good War/Elegy was written
which is the canon material and which was retconned?
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sudden oak
thats why I said it is a lore mess up des
hollow dock
Until then, I'm going to stick on what's in game.
sudden oak
other says delaryn helped ambushing him
hollow dock
that's what they wanted to show us.
If they wanted A Good War/Elegy to be the canon, why wouldn't they design, since it was certainly written before pre-patch came out and had PTR iterations done, with that in mind? Other than they just didn't hand the design team a copy of the novellas.
meager zodiac
then i ask you, what is the piece of content available right now?
can you go ingame and do the war of thorns? no you cant, but you can go an read the novels
that should telll you their stance on it.
hollow dock
and yet one came out before the other when both pieces were made.
Like all in game events that shouldn't be canon since you can't do them as you so claim, you can still view them on youtube
So that argument doesn't really work
hardy hedge
I am pretty sure its for the same reason quests sometimes dont match the actual lore
Its because the team has no cooperation with each other
They may all know the basics but not the specifics
deft umbra
Hello, do we have any news of the Pathfinder achievement part two?
sudden oak
sadly nope
sudden oak
also isnt that nazmir?
tulip sun
Ya
Mistitled
I didn't make it
And Des blocked me so he can't see what I linked
I love the blood elf presence though
night swift
Are there more besides the panda 7th legion guards?
hollow dock
who's loss?
zealous basalt
It's a huojin panda
zealous basalt
Aysa is in Boralus
terse patrol
Ji just...
zealous basalt
But she is meditating
uncut vault
Ji's also on Zuldazar
terse patrol
punches things off screen.
jade basalt
@hollow dock I wasn't sure it was appropriate for this channel, but yeah https://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2018/october/emissaryHotfix.png
That's a huge, huge boost
People seem happy
hollow dock
oof
jovial skiff
wow
Ill actually do them now
tulip sun
@zealous basalt
Generic huojin
And there is a female rare Huojin I can't find the model to
tulip sun
They look great in red
zealous basalt
Is that a monk
tulip sun
And ya, I assume so
tulip sun
I think red just generally looks sweet on em e.e
uncut vault
got a link to the actual NPC?
hollow dock
link to what actual NPC?
zealous basalt
Get the link m8
tulip sun
I will search for that female- but she supposedly duel wields Sethrak blades
tulip sun
?
zealous basalt
The sethrak blades
hollow dock
what link and what npc
zealous basalt
The Huojin disciple
zealous basalt
...
Oh I'm silly
Thought it was MoP challenge mode armor
It's just Nighthold tier
tulip sun
Ya
calm plank
I feel like Sylvanas rezzing blood elves won't put Lor'Themar in a very happy mood
zealous basalt
"From today's raid testing, we learned that when in the Flashback Events, Alliance and Horde will be completely turned into the opposite faction during this time. It's not a costume, but in fact, a full race change which comes complete with new racial abilities and preventing you from using your old racial abilities.
It doesn't seem to be a 1-to-1 race conversion and more based on class with the majority of classes being converted to Human for Horde and classes like Druid turned into Night Elves."
Rest in pastaroni
calm plank
I feel like some day there's a guy who will find a way to keep the race change out of the raid
calm plank
also yeah giga oof for em
jovial skiff
hmm
I was really hoping it would be a 1-1, so that human pallys would become orc pallys
there could have been neat combos
for example, blood elf would have became draenei
so you would finally have draenei demon hunters
zealous basalt
Paladins would be surely turned into blood elves
jovial skiff
I know, but it would have been fun the other way
zealous basalt
Fr?
hollow dock
You'd be forced to Night Elf Skylor
zealous basalt
So i am supposing
jovial skiff
yeah
I know
zealous basalt
Shamans become Dwarves?
tulip sun
Or draenei
jovial skiff
What im saying
is that it could have just swapped you with whatever race is opposite yours on the character creation screen, regardless of class availability
zealous basalt
Ah, random?
jovial skiff
could have been cool, if it were just a costume change
zealous basalt
Sadly
Due how whining the people are atm
It will be changed into a costume perhaps
zealous basalt
F
hollow dock
F for what?
zealous basalt
It's future pay of respects
hollow dock
well not many zandalari will be left to do those respects
tulip sun
Des didn't see my picture @zealous basalt
zealous basalt
nope
tulip sun
Maybe post it so he understands.
hollow dock
nope what?
zealous basalt
hollow dock
Oh cool. the whole trll race (except amani and gurubashi oddly enough. and the drakari. huh) is mourning their king
zealous basalt
"F"
tulip sun
It would be such a failure of the alliance if this truly led to those tribes joining the horde.
zealous basalt
Such like how a failure the Teldrassil burn was?
sudden oak
I mean the Burning of Teldrassil wasnt that much of a failure
it made the alliance rush without thinking into a trap
zealous basalt
If Sylvanas wanted to shatter the Alliance, it made the bond stronger
sudden oak
that would have killed most of the alliance leadership if not cause jaina
I mean the burning wasnt the original plan
zealous basalt
And I don't think the other trol tribes would join the Horde, remember that Horde and Alliance have killed lots of them
hollow dock
It didn't Veri. The alliance didn't rush into a trap.
The horde ambushed
massacred
and then ended up burning a bunch of night elves
they didn't target any other alliancemembers besides them
all cuz Sylvanas thought killing malf and capturing the tree would break the alliance out of the war she was starting
zealous basalt
I think he meant the Lordaeron raid
hollow dock
Ala Japanese circa 1941.
sudden oak
what makore said
hollow dock
Where was Lordaeron mentioned in any of this? O.o
sudden oak
I said the burning of the tree made the alliance rush into a trap that would have destroyed the alliance leadership if not because of jaina
hollow dock
yea where in there is lordaeorn
when the topic is the burnign
of a tree
In which the burning is a failure
in that they didn't do their original goal
which is break the alliance and toss em out of the war
that the horde was starting
which honestly
now that I think of it
how would that have broken the alliance?
if teldrassil didn't burn
they'd still have laid siege to lordaeron
so many horde resources are across the sea
zealous basalt
I don't think they were going to r--
hollow dock
and a massive kingdom is left wide open
sudden oak
if Teldrassil got captured by the horde they would have hostages to make sure the alliance wouldnt retaliate
hollow dock
and the horde can't do anything
but lose their only bargaining chip
the alliance gains all of Lordaeron
and boots the horde out of the eastern kingdom
terse patrol
Lordaeron is Alliance territory now, which has lots of resources.
hollow dock
and all the horde lost
zealous basalt
You are forgetting that if
zealous basalt
Anduin retalliates with Lordaeron
Sylvanas would just kill the people in Darnassus
junior prairie
I puked in my mouth when I saw they are rezzing lor'ash 🤢
zealous basalt
THAT'S THE THING
zealous basalt
Tyrande only well
hollow dock
so it doesn't matter
sudden oak
Sylvanas ordered the burning because with malf alive the night elves wouldnt surrender
sudden oak
and knowing that the alliance would retalliate to lordaeron Sylvanas made a trap
hollow dock
We're talking about the hypothetical situation of the horde has teldrassil already.
sudden oak
then the alliance cant retalliate to lordaeron
sudden oak
cause they have hostages
hollow dock
They can move onto lordaeron a lot faster than they can kill hostages
since there's no defending force in the city
sudden oak
not really?
hollow dock
and then the alliance has hostages
Again so many horde resources are focused on teldrassil it weakens everywhere else.
that's how occupations work
tulip sun
Eh, you may be right Makore
hollow dock
that's why occupations never end up working
junior prairie
... but night elves did keep fighting though even with tree burnt, I feel everything tied to darkshore lore and night elves right now is like a pile of shit shifting through to find some gold in it lol
tulip sun
But it still makes me feel good to see a good bit of tribes at least respected Rasta.
zealous basalt
The
hollow dock
also, Hi lyris
hollow dock
shouldn't you be asleep right now?
sudden oak
how are you going to siege a city before they can kill civilians on a place you control
zealous basalt
Was making Anduin decide
if attacking Lordaeron
or try to defend Darnassus
which would make Genn jealous of him not deciding that for gilneas
junior prairie
I should... but..stuff glare happened and now I can't
terse patrol
If Lor’themar doesnt get pissed about raised blood elves, I’m gunna be mad.
hollow dock
You can lay siege to a city with little to no defenders at it because so many of the hordes resources are focused onto taking Teldrassil into complete subjugation
zealous basalt
And probably start an argument that would end relations with Night elves and Gilneas if that was the case
hollow dock
great
junior prairie
@terse patrol He won't care..or if he cares over lorash I think I'll officially puke XD, he's such a lore-breaking character
sudden oak
still is not faster than axing the head of a night elf you have 3 steps at your side
hollow dock
that means conflict
that means everything we want to happen for the alliance
an interesting story
terse patrol
Lor’themar threatened to kill Sylvanas if she raised his rangers so
hollow dock
do you all want an interesting story to happen with the alliance or for nothing to actually test their mettle as a unified front
sudden oak
how is lorash a lore breaking character?
terse patrol
It’s a matter of principle.
zealous basalt
I don't think Lorash is a ranger tbh
sudden oak
Lorash is a random rogue
zealous basalt
He seems to be just that there fuck
terse patrol
Pretty sure he meant blood elves in general.
zealous basalt
You say ranger
junior prairie
Because he's apparently older than what 6'800 basically from what's been told.. is he was an original highborne night elf who ended up living all this time
terse patrol
He was mad when Sylvanas wiped out a camp full of high elves.
zealous basalt
Decide already
hollow dock
that's apart of the highborne Verial
sudden oak
it wasnt that much time between the high elves moved from lordaeron to quel'thalas
terse patrol
High Elves were still Highborne when they landed in Lordaeron
hollow dock
they arrived in lordaeron roughly 7000 years ago
hollow dock
he's just somehow lived that long.
terse patrol
But within their lifetime
hollow dock
which is unknown how they lived that long since other media states high elves don't have the lengthy life span that night elves had.
terse patrol
Blizzard has done this in multiple places. @hollow dock
Like with Areiel being thousands of years old
junior prairie
he was in the first batch..or so it makes it seem's before they founded Quel'thalas which Dath'remar was even still alive, and dath'remar never..well "devolved" as in sunnier skin/smaller etc, so he would of been born more night elf, than blood elf
terse patrol
And having known Shandris Feathermoon during the Troll Wars.
junior prairie
Oh don't you dare even get me started on Areiel, that stuff bangs head
hollow dock
that's a blood elf you're tlakin about
nvm
and that's still in BFA's stuff Honk
so
terse patrol
Ye
junior prairie
how did she fight in the troll wars a secluded thing which the belves had to ask HUMANS to aid..if they got night elf aid I don't think they'd need humans
hollow dock
where helves had the life span of a few hundred years
compared to their night elf cousins that numbered in the tens of thousands
terse patrol
They seem to be retconning high/belf lifespans in BFA.
hollow dock
thanks to the well of eternity and world tree
terse patrol
Wanna know for what reason, at least imo?
zealous basalt
🅱 ?
terse patrol
So Alleria would survive the Thousand Years War without being Lightforged.
They changed the lore for her.
hollow dock
I really doubt that
zealous basalt
Oh ye
junior prairie
I think the reason she hasn't gone grey is because she was in a statis cell for ages right?
junior prairie
Sure the jail cell was like a statis pod
zealous basalt
So Alleria could be like the oldest of the Helves?
jade basalt
Alleria fighting in the Troll Wars is a very, very old reference that didn't even make much sense back then, and was probably referring to just generic troll wars/skirmishes, not the 'Troll Wars'
junior prairie
@zealous basalt Oh no that downright goes to Lorash now apparently XD
terse patrol
That “honor” seems to be speshul Lorash still
hollow dock
thank you, Quiet
junior prairie
Yeah isn't Alleria roughly 250 years old by WC1?
terse patrol
@jade basalt We were talking specifically about Areiel before in regards to the Troll Wars.
jade basalt
We even wondered whether we should use it on Wowpedia or not but, recording everything is kind of the point of the wiki, but yeah it's a flimsy reference
zealous basalt
me thinks hes edgy
jade basalt
Areiel is apparently 2000-3000 years old yeah, which is within the high/blood elf life span. There's also no 'Elder blood elf' model so keep that in mind, the young and the old will just look the same.
junior prairie
See this is what annoys me so much about BFA story-telling right now I know blizz retcons/changes stuff but it's never been this blunt like a mace smack. everything just throws you off...also I'm forgetting lots of stuff too tonight...headache is killing me 😭
zealous basalt
its called bias
junior prairie
@jade basalt Anasterian is 3,300 or roughly lived to that right?
terse patrol
Anasterian only died due to Arthas tho
terse patrol
His soul didnt get taken thankfully
hollow dock
he was an old man at that time Honk