beta-ptr-spoilers

[dense plover]

plz take more screenshots

[zealous basalt]

y u no do it

[dense plover]

i dont have a 120 alliance to use to test

[zealous basalt]

boi

o

HAH

[dense plover]

mine is 110

[zealous basalt]

wait

[dense plover]

i havent had time to level

[zealous basalt]

i think i can do it

....

but

[ionic terrace]

idk if you could faction change

[zealous basalt]

the question is

do i really want

[dense plover]

you cant

they didnt enable faction change on ptr

[zealous basalt]

I wouldn't mind streaming for yall

[dense plover]

unless that changed too

[ionic terrace]

it did

[dense plover]

oh damn

[ionic terrace]

it's random though

[dense plover]

#accessibleptr2018

[ionic terrace]

you might have to keep copying

[zealous basalt]

do it peach

do it and tell us

[dense plover]

ill do it in a bit

doing a fuck load of homework

[ionic terrace]

oops

[zealous basalt]

dont do it

[dense plover]

oh damn

[dense plover]

so sira is fully involved in the other half of the story

[ionic terrace]

this is the weird part

[dense plover]

not that weird

they are trying to get azerite and defend stromgarde

[ionic terrace]

True yeah

[dense plover]

kalimdor is far from their thoughts

[ionic terrace]

There's a cinematic

but ofc not in

[dense plover]

ok

[ionic terrace]

either that or an in-game cutscene

[dense plover]

so thats probably the cinematic the horde sees from the wisp

maybe

is the skybox all weird and dark in darkshore when you get there?

[ionic terrace]

Yes

[dense plover]

hmmm

yeah

im guessing thats the cutscene

and the wisp cutscene for horde

it might be a full on cutscene

considering they change the skybox, it would certainly be easier

[zealous basalt]

those are 3 cutcenes

[sudden oak]

I think its a cutscene for the tyrande/anduin thing

and the wisp cutscene is the same as the tyrande night warrior ritual cutscene

[dense plover]

i dont think they will have a fully faction exclusive cutscene

but its possible

i imagine that means horde gets something exclusive as well

maybe

[ionic terrace]

they do

there's another at the end

well

both get it

So it's actually Zuldazar that's taking the resources

[zealous basalt]

mad waffle

[ionic terrace]

lol

[zealous basalt]

YOU RUIN MY IMMERSION BOI

[ionic terrace]

😃

[dense plover]

ah

so it gives story order

while horde is prepping darkshore

the alliance assaults zuldazar

so thats probably the post-scenario cinematic

horde returns, alliance is assaulting, RAID

so that likely means this quest line either wont be there on launch

[zealous basalt]

So...whats the pace?

[dense plover]

or will be staggered

[zealous basalt]

I bambozzled myself

[dense plover]

horde goes to darkshore -> tyrande goes to stop them -> player and nathanos do horde questline -> tyrande pushes horde away after they lose a valkyr and raise sira and delaryn -> zuldazar is raided/cutscene

[ionic terrace]

there was some other text with genn sending some forces but I can't seem to trigger it again

[dense plover]

that makes sense

we do see a few worgen scattered around

[zealous basalt]

...

wait so you are telling me that

[midnight bloom]

Still butt mad, we the Alliance, don't help the Night Elves after they've been helping us for decades

[zealous basalt]

Zuldazar raid is before the

the

the

that thing, the warfront

[midnight bloom]

Whoa, wait, it is?

[zealous basalt]

or after

[midnight bloom]

Thats weird

[zealous basalt]

seems to be immediatly after

[ionic terrace]

some text missing but yeah

[zealous basalt]

wat

[ionic terrace]

Genn talking to himself again 😛

[zealous basalt]

Genn

I think its time to sleep

[ionic terrace]

it's supposed to be Anduin

[sudden oak]

the old wolf is going senile

[zealous basalt]

What if Genn is like that Troll from Nazmir?

[sudden oak]

[ionic terrace]

and you actually go to Zoram Strand first

ooh that burn

[zealous basalt]

Elves be pissed

[ionic terrace]

Oh, and i'm pretty sure there's a cinematic when she becomes the Night Warrior

because there was a placeholder iirc

[dense plover]

wait

take pics of the south side of the zone

we couldnt access that as horde

[sudden oak]

tbh I congratulate the night elves for being the first to defy the rule of their humans overlords

[ionic terrace]

Yeah give me a bit

need to do a bit more first

[zealous basalt]

Well

They are the only ones the Alliance doesn't help

[sudden oak]

because why the hell everyone listens to the 19 year old boy

when they have velen/tyrande/malf

[midnight bloom]

We should just kill off Anduin and have Genn as Leader

Tbh

[zealous basalt]

No

[zinc sandal]

LMAO No.

[midnight bloom]

😄

[zealous basalt]

Maybe we should go into the Warhammer 40k direction

And kill any race that isn't human

Well

Purge

[midnight bloom]

That's one thing I am curious about, are Humans in WoW still racist af about all the other beings in their cities and towns? I know in WC RTS's they absolutely hated elves and to a lesser extent dwarves and gnomes.

[zealous basalt]

No

[sudden oak]

that was garithos

[zealous basalt]

The only racist they are to

Are towards Orcs

[sudden oak]

and undead

[zealous basalt]

And that's is a well earned hate tho

[midnight bloom]

Well in the REALLY old PnP book Warcraft released it did have some exerts that stated a large chunk of humans really hated their allies and wish it was only humans

[zealous basalt]

PnP?

Aren't those non canon anymore?

[midnight bloom]

Pen and Paper/Dungeons & Dragons

I haven't the faintest clue if it is

[sudden oak]

and trolls too

[zealous basalt]

Yeah

I think it's not canon anymore

Oh yeah

And trolls too

Just like Thalassian elves should be btw

Thalassian and Humans would be really racist towards trolls almost wanting to genocide them

Well

Alleria is the only one with genocidal traits only with orcs tho

[dense plover]

yep

PnP isnt canon

the old RTS sort of itsnt canon either

the most canon stuff is Warlords->BfA, and chronicles and any of the newer books

though most of old wow and the rts games are canon

[zealous basalt]

no

[sudden oak]

thalassian elves still see trolls a bit bad

[dense plover]

well

[zealous basalt]

"After arriving in Lor'danel's Landing, Tyrande petrifies all forsaken there, while stating Nathanos is not there. Malfurion arrives and aids her with cleaning camp."

[dense plover]

#latest-news-old

[zealous basalt]

...

Wow

[dense plover]

@ionic terrace you dont need to take pics anymore

[sudden oak]

just see Sylvanas on SoO

but still they are able to understand that the amani are not the same as the darkspear or the zandalari

[ionic terrace]

Yeah I saw lol

[dense plover]

i suspect a lot of this questline will be voiced

theres a fuck ton of audio files for all of the involved characters that is currently empty

i hope night elf heritage armor is warden armor

i want that cloak

ok

so its clearly a bit buggy

theres phasing issues within the scenario

[zealous basalt]

So

Just as the valkyr tries to mc tyrande

everything goes dark?

[dense plover]

oh

nvm

im a dumby

theyre stealthed

no

tyrande casts a spell

[ionic terrace]

God I want to kill Nathanos so badly

[zealous basalt]

O

ass

I told Des that they weren't going to make a new model for the normal tyrande

This is kinda

[dense plover]

so clearly

[zealous basalt]

giving me

[dense plover]

part of what happened here

is tyrande left alone

[zealous basalt]

Sira

[dense plover]

and her forces arrive after

which partially explains how she doesnt beat the horde

she is disorganized

and emotional

[zealous basalt]

I think

She overhyped herself

[ionic terrace]

and sira was already kinda tired of elune it seems

[zealous basalt]

Ye

And from Maiev's bs more

[dense plover]

damn

auberdine is just gone

[zealous basalt]

i mean

it has been always gone

or like

no ruins?

"Wait for my signal"

So

[dense plover]

theyre fancy new ruins

that replace an actual place

[zealous basalt]

She let herself do that?

[dense plover]

that existed prior to burning of teldrassil

i guess

whats interesting

[zealous basalt]

" No. Wait for my signal before you attack"

[dense plover]

it that for every npc we raised as a dark ranger

it seems we lost several members of the horde

[zealous basalt]

So I think I understand from pure reading

I think

Tyrande let the rage control her, because it doens't seem that she would give Malf the signal normally

So the moment she started to get submitted

She casted the spell, which was the signal

[dense plover]

yes

[zealous basalt]

...So she had the upper hand in every moment

[dense plover]

she knew she was losing

so she stopped losing

[zealous basalt]

Damn

that makes everything different

wtb better textures

[dense plover]

its darkness

[coral kayak]

sp00ky

[dense plover]

and a vignette

for like 5 sec

no one is going to waste texture time on that

[terse patrol]

tyrande welcomes them back

“NO WE ARE FORSAKEN, OUR PEOPLE HATE US”

“i am literally telling you to come back”

[zealous basalt]

Not that

[dense plover]

@hollow dock you might like the scenario

[zealous basalt]

Don't be a liar

[terse patrol]

“NO, ELUNE HAS FORSAKEN US”

[dense plover]

horde loses a lot of forces on the alliance side

[zealous basalt]

Either that

They are pissed with Tyrande mostly

[dense plover]

i think them feeling that way is somewhat feasible. Tyrande ran off, abandoning her people, and they died as a result

[zealous basalt]

I mean, now seeing this

It seems like she abandoned everything

Just to make herself op

[dense plover]

just to get revenge

and she lost two of her commanders as a result

[zealous basalt]

Well

One

The other was already dead

[dense plover]

Dat new nightsaber model tho

[zealous basalt]

I could feel Sira feeling hate for just leaving

[dense plover]

since Sira dies before night warrior tyrande shows up

[zealous basalt]

Someone about Nathanos

[dense plover]

its possible that in her scouting, sira thinks tyrande is dead

[zealous basalt]

ncredible amount of plot armor of nathanos, such a generic,thrash,1 dimensional villain who never grow or change or face consequences for his actions and who has been the same dude for like more than a decade? and why he is so OP?
he make look medan like a character written by g.r.r martin.
and also, he is a self insert, so not real surprises here.

[dense plover]

and combined with the burning of teldrassil

she might just have lost all hope

and charged nathanos and the player in a rage

dying

losing all hope in elune

[zealous basalt]

Did she just

Charged without an order?

[dense plover]

sira goes off to scout ahead of the player and maiev

she ends up stalking the player

i wouldnt be surprised if she couldnt find tyrande or thought tyrande would save her

and when she dies, she loses all hope

[zealous basalt]

peech

check the thing bout nathanos they posted

that big insult calling him med'an

[dense plover]

holy shit the amount of horde troops killed

[terse patrol]

This just seems WAY too convenient.

[dense plover]

like, numbers to numbers, alliance does way more damage

[midnight bloom]

Man, Malfurion better watch out. If he has to do dishes after dinner one night and forgets, he best watch his ass, his wife will go Dark Warrior on his ass

[terse patrol]

Even if she was mad at Tyrande, why the fuck would she side with her murderers, and the people who genocided her people?

Like, what the fuck?

“REEEEE I AM FORSAKEN”

[zealous basalt]

I should have to play more to see

[dense plover]

thats not what im saying

[midnight bloom]

I'm on your side about that Honkerton, majority here in chat are ok with that :V

[dense plover]

honk

follow me here for a sec ok?

[terse patrol]

If you can’t see the cognitive dissonance in this writing, you need to get a book.

And read.

[dense plover]

Sira already has doubts about elune

she says as much at the start of the alliance side

[terse patrol]

So this makes her want to KILL HER OWN PEOPLE

lmao

Right.

[dense plover]

she does

she literally does

[terse patrol]

It’s stupid, sorry.

[dense plover]

"Sira Moonwarden says: Elune... was she watching over us as Teldrassil burned?
Shandris Feathermoon says: We must not lose faith in the goddess. That is just what the Horde wants.
Maiev Shadowsong says: Sira, you scout the shoreline while the rest of us head inland. We will find Tyrande and meet you at Lor'danel.
Maiev Shadowsong says: Elune be with you, sister.
Sira Moonwarden says: ... As you command."

we dont know the rest of what happens between her having those doubts and her death

[terse patrol]

When I became an atheist, I didn’t decide to gut my family. @dense plover

[dense plover]

"Sira and Delaryn are then raised as forsaken.
Tyrande Whisperwind says: You must fight the shadow in your hearts, sisters!
Sira Moonwarden says: We placed our faith in you.
Delaryn Summermoon says: And you abandoned us. Elune abandoned us!
Delaryn Summermoon says: We have nothing left. We are forsaken.
Tyrande Whisperwind says: Never again. Ash thoribas!"

the curse of undeath corrupts your mind and soul

[terse patrol]

So you’re saying its...

[dense plover]

whether they would feel that way in life is different

[terse patrol]

Mind control? 🤔

[dense plover]

im saying its corrupting

if i resurrected you, but emphasized the worst parts, all of the doubts and hates

[zealous basalt]

You would be away from the good feelings

[dense plover]

would you act the same as you did in life?

[tranquil steeple]

as I see it, being raised into Undeath strengthens negative emotions, thus corrupting the raised person (based on Sira and Delaryn)

[zealous basalt]

So the curse of undead lowers all the bits of goodness you have

[dense plover]

thats what becoming forsaken does to you

thats what it does almost always

[zealous basalt]

And pulls out the negative emotions

[dense plover]

this was emphasized in before the storm

and with amalia stone

and with the tidesage

[terse patrol]

Blizzard had best explain that then, rather than making Forsaken players feel good, as if newly risen Forsaken have true agency.

[midnight bloom]

You're filling in those blanks though, to justify poor writing.

[dense plover]

some parts stay

but your mind gets corrupted

im not filling in the blanks

they fucking lay it out in before the storm

[terse patrol]

If Sira and Delaryn don’t betray Sylvanas, I’ll lose all faith in the writing.

[midnight bloom]

There needed to be a refresher or something prior to the events that leaded up to what transpired on that beach, anything, something to justify such a quick change in persona.

[terse patrol]

Same with Derek.

[zealous basalt]

Derek

Was confused

When he got revived

That's how it seems in the datamined text

Scared too

Delaryn seems to be depressed

What it needs there is voice

[terse patrol]

I hope Calia saves Derek.

[zealous basalt]

Because we can't really see what is happening

[midnight bloom]

I know you guys here are alright with them explaining it away at a later date but given that this is Blizzard we don't know when that explanation will happen and to the degree we're all hoping. I very much so expect them to forget about it completely

[zealous basalt]

Like

Those words of both

[midnight bloom]

I really wish the events that transpired with Arthas's sister in the books happened in the actual game.

[zealous basalt]

Sira Moonwarden says: We placed our faith in you.
Delaryn Summermoon says: And you abandoned us. Elune abandoned us!
Delaryn Summermoon says: We have nothing left. We are forsaken.

It would be better if they added voiceovers

[dense plover]

"Forsaken who have been raised into undeath or "awoken" as the Forsaken call it, may be terrified, confused, or disoriented by the experience. Part of this stems from being traumatized by witnessing their own skin and body decaying for the first time. Other times, it may be because they were raised with some sort of terrible malady like having only half a brain.[100] Some don't survive the shock, turning into zombies or ghouls. Others retain just enough humanity to seem normal on the outside... but they're sick inside"

[zealous basalt]

Just for us to hear how they feel

[midnight bloom]

I think it would solidfy a lot of the issues we seem to argue with here and on other platforms about the capacity and evolution of being resurrected by Sylvanas Powers

[zealous basalt]

Or after

Tie it to be the victory of the Warfront

[midnight bloom]

@dense plover That is not a good excuse for what happened on that beach. Their bodies, brains, heart, blood flow were still warm and moving when they were resurrected from a realistic/RL standpoint and probably even more so in the Fantasy Genre -- majority of the corpses she's risen and the players own Undead characters are suggested to have been in the ground for a long amount of time

[dense plover]

why would they go against sylvanas? they accepted undeath. They have lost their hope in elune

that doesnt matter

[midnight bloom]

Where as in Sira and Daedryns case it's been in mere seconds.

[dense plover]

its about their souls

not their bodies

and no

its over several minutes for sira

for delaryn, its weeks

[midnight bloom]

We don't know that though mrpeach774, you're filling in the blanks to justify the poor writing Blizzard did

[dense plover]

no

we fight tyrande

[terse patrol]

@dense plover Why did whats his face and his friends shoot her in the back then.

Riddle me that.

[dense plover]

could you give me the details here?

what specifically are you talking about?

[zealous basalt]

Do you remember

Lord

Erm

this fucker

[dense plover]

oh

godfrey?

[sudden oak]

godfrey?

[terse patrol]

Godfrey

[zealous basalt]

Lord fucker with balls on air

[dense plover]

because he was an evil motherfucker

he wasnt siding with the alliance

did you run that dungeon?

[sudden oak]

and wanted to rule gilneas

[dense plover]

he wanted to kill everyone

[sudden oak]

and shadowfang

[dense plover]

^

[zealous basalt]

And the undead

[dense plover]

^

he was maliciously evil

he wasnt doublecrossing

he was a monster

[sudden oak]

he is a mix of putress and varimathras when the coup at undecity

[zealous basalt]

and waifu

[sudden oak]

putress wanted to kill and vari wanted to rule

[dense plover]

they didnt accept undeath to backstab sylvanas and go work for the alliance

they didnt like the alliance before

[sudden oak]

godfrey wanted both

[dense plover]

^

[zealous basalt]

That was some nice villain

[dense plover]

also, after watching, Sira doesnt actually find tyrande

and just sees the horde raising delaryn and other night elves

so i think she might have though tyrande was dead

[zealous basalt]

Or that she left them forever

[sudden oak]

Sira is tired of maievs bs and of Elune

[dense plover]

also

its confirmed that the ONLY nightwarrior is elune

no one else undergoes the ceremony

[zealous basalt]

And why would they give us the night warrior thing

[sudden oak]

and by relation she also hates Tyrande

[midnight bloom]

If that's the case does that mean player character "Night Warriors" (the new eye costmetics) are non-canon, in-game cosmetics?

[zealous basalt]

Seems like so

Just like the Highborne skin

[midnight bloom]

Highborne skin?

[zealous basalt]

Ye

The more paler skin from elves

[dense plover]

because the PC is strong enough to undergo the ritual

[zealous basalt]

ass

[midnight bloom]

Oh that's actually "new"

[dense plover]

and maybe more do after

[midnight bloom]

I thought that was in canon though

[dense plover]

but during the scenario, only tyrande has done it so far

[zealous basalt]

wut

No

you be refered as nelf

[dense plover]

also, it seems tyrande planned to kill both valkyr while malf killed nathanos

bit overconfident

maybe they didnt expect the horde champion?

[zealous basalt]

Well

I could guess why

No fucking scouts

If Sira would have limited herself to follow orders

[dense plover]

https://youtu.be/_-ulUjXyVsU?t=1008

[zealous basalt]

and go back to Maiev

[dense plover]

tyrande arrives as sira is killed

so yeah

she couldnt find her

probably thinks of herself as a failure

[zealous basalt]

Well

She never gave me enough epics or the mount

[dense plover]

also yes

they might be mind controlled

sometimes forsaken are influenced at least slightly for a short while after being raised

[zealous basalt]

okay now i want to do a nelf and a forsaken

[uncut vault]

theyre not influenced, theyre directed

being raised puts you in a bit of a stupor

hard to see what's what

[zealous basalt]

So its

[uncut vault]

seems Sira gets out of it pretty quickly, like Zelling did

[zealous basalt]

Free Will but with some details regarding their feelings that aim them towards joining or not?

[uncut vault]

Delaryn is still in it for a bit

[zealous basalt]

I wonder if Sira could regret it

[sudden oak]

I think Sira has enough hatred to drown her regret

[uncut vault]

well, by the time the Horde player ends the questline, she is in control and talking coherently about accepting Sylvanas' gift

[sudden oak]

Delaryn is the one I think she could regret it

[uncut vault]

havent done the alliance stuff yet so I dont know, but as far as I can tell, Delaryn hasnt done anything beyond say a few sentences to tyrande about elune

doesnt have much to regret yet

also, was Tyrande considered a queen before this?

maiev calls her one in the starting quests, nathanos references it

[zealous basalt]

well

I suppose...

Queen of...

Something?

[sudden oak]

Queen of the tree elves :^)

[uncut vault]

cause before now, she always explicitly didnt want to be queen of the night elves

because that was azshara

[zealous basalt]

maybe it's a tease?

[uncut vault]

Id agree if she didnt deny it in the final quest

[zealous basalt]

idk then

[sudden oak]

maybe its the usual "we see you as our queen even if you dont want to"

[uncut vault]

well, maiev's a bitch but shes not that much of a bitch, she seems to have gotten over her dislike of Tyrande

[zealous basalt]

But

That is assy

[uncut vault]

(still salty maiev didnt get a message from illidan)

[sudden oak]

lol

[zealous basalt]

OH I KNOW WHAT SHOULD SHE SAY

[uncut vault]

not even as a shipping thing, I dont really ship it

just as an acceptance of maiev doing her duty

and doing it well

give maiev some closure on the literal basis of her entire story

[sudden oak]

I AM GOING TO STAB THAT FEL SON OF A BITCH

• surely maiev

[zealous basalt]

Probably she just

Sighing and being like

"Now you will feel what I suffered with you"

[uncut vault]

dunno if it was mentioned, but regular kaldorei sentinels using what were DH only glaives from Legion

please let more classes use glaives blizz

[zealous basalt]

noes

Well

Tyrande uses a dh animation, rite?

[uncut vault]

Yeah, with her new glaive

[meager warren]

nice

[dense plover]

delaryn is the one who died at teldrassil

with sylvanas holding her face

she has EVERY reason to lose faith in elune

her home burned

and she was forced to watch it

[zealous basalt]

And left to die

[uncut vault]

its another issue the novellas are running into, great reasoning and story

not shown to most of the playerbase

[dense plover]

we got that shit in a cutscene

[zealous basalt]

Yes

But there was still

More to show

[uncut vault]

which didnt show her hatred of elune

at all

[sudden oak]

and now the chosen of Elune tells you to fight the darkness in your heart

sure as hell she is going back to her

right

:^)

[zealous basalt]

Better shit on their faces shittalking their whole family

[dense plover]

did she hate elune in the novella?

i dont need the book to figure that out

[uncut vault]

yes, her last moments were of hatred and rage

[sudden oak]

when she is dying she is hateful of her

[dense plover]

you can see it in her face in the cutscene

and again

[sudden oak]

and says she let her children die

[dense plover]

being forced to watch everyone you love die as you cant stop it

[uncut vault]

Above the canopy, above the burning tree, above all the trials and torments of this world, hung two moons, the White Lady and the Blue Child, Mother and infant, Elune and her people. The night skies once offered such comfort and balm. Now they were cold, the stars as hard as the diamonds they resembled.

Where are you, Elune? How could you abandon your children to fire? We gave all we had. For what?

She was lucky. Arrows would claim her life. But the children whose cradle had been the boughs of the World Tree would die in agony and, worse, in utter innocense.

Turn your face from Azeroth in shame, Elune. Her thoughts were daggers. You have abandoned us. We tried so hard...We believed in your love, in your protection...

Her mouth was too dry, her body too weak, to even spit in contempt.

Her pain grew, even as the coldness seeped into her heart.

Soon, it will not hurt at all, the ghostly shape of her beloved had assured her. Would it still hurt when she passed into oblivion?

[dense plover]

that would 100% make me lose faith in my god

delaryn when you talk to her after she is risen actually lets you rewatch the burning cutscene

[uncut vault]

and then to see Elune only bless her chosen champion after letting all those people burn

would be more a reason to hate elune and tyrande, not less IMO

[zealous basalt]

Again

It would beb etter if someone shat on you while trashtalking your ancestors

[dense plover]

tyrande, by becoming a night warrior, allows sira to die, and allows both sira and delaryn to be raised

she chose to sacrifice sira

she watches

she chose not to interfere in order to stop nathanos

and allow malfurion to prepare

she was hungry for revenge

[zealous basalt]

And the Undead curse just filled that gauge to heavens

[uncut vault]

thats a lot better than "oh she was late"

Im so glad the community waited to see the other half of the story before kneejerk reacting

🙄

[zealous basalt]

Porter

You kinda struck almost everyone in this DC

If only they would take the hit with dignity

[sudden oak]

"but night elves are the best and they have no reason to turn against their people"

looks at cordana who sold her warden sisters to the legion for power

[uncut vault]

setting up sira losing faith in elune at the beginning of the quests was good

[zealous basalt]

BUT HEY

Its poor writting

[sudden oak]

yeah also zelling and amalia ofc dont have free will

and derek proudmoore is in a blood rage and follows Sylvanas willingly

[zealous basalt]

Even if he is scared af

iT's AlL pOoR wRiTtiNg

[tranquil steeple]

Wasn't the Cordana stuff related to WoD legendary ring story or something?

[zealous basalt]

Ye

Which means no one can see it

Anymore that is

[sudden oak]

yeah we left her the shadow orb the shadow council used

[zealous basalt]

honestly

[sudden oak]

and gul'dan started to promise her power if she joined the legion

[zealous basalt]

whoever thought that was a good idea

[sudden oak]

guess what she did

[tranquil steeple]

Yeah so not just suddenly doing a 180 and selling fellow Wardens out to the Legion for power, but... it wasn't brought up properly so it seemed random

[zealous basalt]

Well

that was kinda personal

and mostly because she was getting tired of Khadgar's shite

[dense plover]

dont they give a review of that cutscene

in game?

[zealous basalt]

It wasn't a cutcene

[sudden oak]

tbh

[dense plover]

of her taking the power of the legion and becoming evil?

[zealous basalt]

nope that happened in game

Like

she stuns us

[sudden oak]

Sira has more reason than cordana ever had to betray the night elves

[zealous basalt]

make her villain monolgue

Takes the orb

and the fucking

32 tones

that i wasted

7 weeks for

[uncut vault]

Derek hasnt even started following Sylvanas yet, neither has delaryn by the end of the horde stuff

[zealous basalt]

Because it is incomplete

AND PEOPLE DONT' UNDERSTAND THAT WORD

which is what triggers me

[sudden oak]

Derek is in trauma and I dont believe he will do anything for most of the time

so I believe he will be amalia 2.0

except from her accepting the forsaken

and Delaryn is doing "normal stuff" like training the rangers

[dense plover]

stuff isnt implemented

we dont know

[uncut vault]

I like that more than the playable forsaken are being used in this

risen skeletons, geists, aboms

man, people wanted badass Tyrande

that glaive toss was amazing

[zealous basalt]

"ow the edge"

[tulip sun]

I am kinda....contested.

I am disappointed Belmont died. He was kinda, a prominent Forsaken lorewise. Captain of the Deathstalkers, and we need more original, loyal forsaken.

But people die in war so.

[uncut vault]

Did he actually die? He seems to have been left there

[dense plover]

i mean

[uncut vault]

could get out

[dense plover]

sira is also prominent

[tulip sun]

I am pretty sure he dies.

[zealous basalt]

He seems to have died)

[tulip sun]

and Sira is not an original, forsaken.

Like, human.

[uncut vault]

Tyrande said to leave him

[tulip sun]

Not kul tiran

[zealous basalt]

We don't know if

Malf killed him offscreen

against Tyrande's order

[uncut vault]

malfurion walks away before we do so

[tulip sun]

I wonder if the alliance side will help things at all regarding forsaken nelves for people.

Also

I hope a lot, if not all Alliance leaders are in this cinematic

[uncut vault]

which?

[tulip sun]

WoWhead mentions a cutscene when you first enter the room to start the questline

With the alliance leaders.

[uncut vault]

oh, I think its just an explanation between tyrande and anduin

[sudden oak]

@tulip sun belmont gets petrified but he can still talk

[uncut vault]

maybe velen and genn will be in it

[sudden oak]

maybe we are able to save him later

[uncut vault]

https://i.gyazo.com/37c62e20eb4c3d7aabb765412411242e.jpg

I really like this look

[tranquil steeple]

Night Warrior eyes with DK Glow... looks nice

[zealous basalt]

DK Night warrior

is the ch--

OI

WHAT ABOUT DH?

[tranquil steeple]

[uncut vault]

https://i.gyazo.com/263f1e8599f88fa7ff44e8d0a02824e5.jpg

also works, though isnt as visible

[zealous basalt]

....

I somehow expected that

WAIT

DOES THAT REMOVES ALL SCARS?

[tulip sun]

DH and DK may not be permanent options, who knows.

Golden eyes are not for DK and DH

[zealous basalt]

no u

[tulip sun]

Hmm

Genn and Shaw appear to be int eh raid as NPCs

[sudden oak]

I love how people are going insane about nathanos being a self-insert when he is still very much in character of old vanilla nathanos

when we have anduin with the holy moral compass and golden "anduin is the best"

[zealous basalt]

At least Anduin has his ass kicked

[sudden oak]

"my broken bones tell me this is bad"
-probably anduin

didnt nathanos get his throat ripped by genn in stormheim in the alliance airship and he got it replaced

[zealous basalt]

Anduin is far cooler than Nathanos anyways

[sudden oak]

yeah but thats not the point here

[uncut vault]

I mean, according to people, if tyrande doesnt kill him, nathanos doesnt lose in any form

[sudden oak]

^

[uncut vault]

peers at the dead valkyr

[sudden oak]

also the point here is people screaming of bias and playing favorites with nathanos

meanwhile golden just gave anduin a moral compass that doesnt get mentioned anywhere except in the book it happens

the reason

being smashed by a bell

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[zealous basalt]

A holy bell

[unique crag]

Wait so, Night Warrior is skin color

[zealous basalt]

Ye

Just like the golden eyes

[unique crag]

Golden eyes were faces

[zealous basalt]

oof

[sudden oak]

the bell was a mogu artifact and the mace was a pandaren artifact

how is that holy in any form

[zealous basalt]

because

something something plot that horde always has

[sudden oak]

In the one-hundred-and-seventieth year of the Thunder King's reign, the Korune spellweavers came to Lei Shen with their greatest creation. A bell cast from the maker's flesh, shaped by stars' fire, and bound by the breath of darkest shadow. This bell, when rung, could shake the world and call to the heavens. Taken to war, the bell's cacophonous tones stirred the hearts of Lei Shen's warriors. It fueled their hatred and anger, lending them strength on the field of battle. The bell’s screaming voice struck fear and doubt into the hearts of the Emperor's enemies, sending them fleeing in his path. Awed by its power, the Thunder King described the instrument as "the voice of the gods," and named it Shenqing, the Divine Bell

[unique crag]

bell was made from breath of Y'Shaarj

[zealous basalt]

You can't speak of plot

[unique crag]

Mace could be something related to holy, I forgot it's origin

[sudden oak]

its of pandaren origin

so I dont think so

since the pandaren know nothing of the light

[unique crag]

Anyway it was the Bell that broke on Anduin

[sudden oak]

see aisha in the pandaren introduction to the alliance

where she ask what the hell is the light

[unique crag]

But it would be awkward if Anduin is listening to some Old God related thing

It actually communicates with Anduin in BtS before Calia dies in Arathi

Something like "Protect and Mourn"

[sudden oak]

that would actually be something interesting rather than I can never be wrong since I have a moral compass

[unique crag]

I'm not sure if it was Bell or sentient Light(?) never figured it out

Some scroll up and I read Belmont gets frozen Night Elves surely won't let him go

[sudden oak]

I mean a big group of forsaken gets petrified and Tyrande says to ignore them and to leave them rot since they dont deserve a clean death

Also this is WoW unless there is a corpse no one is truly dead

And even when they are truly dead they still come back looks at vol'jin

Same can be said about mekkatorque

Or Rastakhan

Since I believe he will appear at least once or twice as a spirit

[meager warren]

Wait, Rasta's ded?

[dense plover]

he dies in the raid

[zealous basalt]

he was kinda ded already

[hollow dock]

He made a deal with a death god

[uncut vault]

ooh damn, Frida Ironbellow has a really cool consecration look

https://i.gyazo.com/2d95ca1c7b183ad9c464d736b4da686d.jpg

[zealous basalt]

wtb

[uncut vault]

trying to find footage of the zandalari paladin, see if she has a special one too

[sudden oak]

I think they have the same

[tulip sun]

I didn't really pay attention to the spells

But Shaw is very surprised at seeing a troll paladin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpVGnzRjYLg

@uncut vault

[sudden oak]

https://youtu.be/TpVGnzRjYLg

[uncut vault]

Theyre the same, it seems

which might mean thats gonna be the new consecration look in general

[sudden oak]

Oops

[uncut vault]

https://i.gyazo.com/0fa5ead081b6220a7eee7fb525fcb9a7.jpg

[zealous basalt]

gfdi

[tulip sun]

@uncut vault What/who is that?

[uncut vault]

just three NPCs from a world quest

[tulip sun]

Oh really?

Maybe that is what I saw

I saw a dead troll and nightborne boss while exploring on my Horde

Didn't see the Highmountain

That is cool though, shows them being involved

[uncut vault]

hes a highmountain paladin too

[tulip sun]

Your joking

[uncut vault]

https://i.gyazo.com/c61d2325c15ddc8dc05e94922efc8982.jpg

[tulip sun]

Think it is a mistake?

Maybe he is suppose to be a regular taure

n

[zealous basalt]

or blizz likes to tease us

[tulip sun]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sunwalkers and Seers expanded to them.

I honestly would like to see the growth in-game though

[uncut vault]

would be nice to see each of the original 4 allied races getting a new class, though I cant imagine what void elves would get

[tulip sun]

Like Aponi or Dezco teaching them, or a highmountain NPC voicing interest in the Sunawlker ways.

[uncut vault]

since Im betting next xpac we'll get a cata-style class/race combo addition drop

[tulip sun]

Do the Highmountain and regular tauren have different VO?

[night swift]

Yes

Highmountain males have deeper voices

[tulip sun]

Motega uses normal Tauren @uncut vault

[night swift]

while normal tauren have their voices that sound kinda strained

[uncut vault]

he seems to use the old highmountain model

which was just normal tauren, with antlers added

[zealous basalt]

explain urself

[tulip sun]

I hope this is not just a mistake

[uncut vault]

doesnt have the extra furry look or HD braids that the highmountain have

[night swift]

or war paint

[tulip sun]

I am worried it is not intentional now e.e

[zealous basalt]

spook

[jovial skiff]

idk if anybody on ptr can confirm, but I have an idea for how theyll do warfronts
I think that the available warfronts will be offset so that once all the warfronts are released each faction will basically always have one up to do and another to donate to and maybe more

[dense plover]

We don’t know

2nd one isn’t open

[night swift]

I think ion said that was the plan

While one is up for one, another one will be up for the other side

So that no one is without a warfront to do

[uncut vault]

well, based on the PTR, the way they're doing it is splitting the war effort contributions

each one only has 3 or 4 people up for contribution

and when it swaps/the odd chance one faction owns both, the other ones will come up

[steel venture]

SCREAMS LOUDLY.
OUR ""QUEEN?""

MAIEV.
CALLING.
TYRANDE.
A QUEEN?!!!!

[tropic trail]

Drama Queen.

[tranquil steeple]

[sudden oak]

[frozen dust]

[feral dune]

I am surprised they remember that Maiev even exists, not even talking that they will do something with her in bfa

[hollow dock]

I mean. They remembered her last expansion?...

[feral dune]

They didn't include her anywhere after 7.2.5

I think its because her voice actress had surgery

[winged heron]

so that means they cant now??????

[feral dune]

If they remembered her thats good

[hollow dock]

My question is why forget her?...

[feral dune]

Her voice actress had surgery on throat, so she couldn't speak

Even tho they could have used unvoiced text with her quests

[steel venture]

medical issues with a VA tend to take priority over putting the character as a cameo.

typically a developer may avoid it out of respect for their employed VA ... ? :/

[zealous basalt]

Yo nile

Why queen

Is it due respect or teasing?

[hollow dock]

I take it as respect

considering Tyrande is all but Queen

in title

[zealous basalt]

Man

I kinda want to see the cinematic of Tyrande and Anduin

Oi, does this means that the Horde half succeded in making the Alliance ties weaker?

[sudden oak]

it kinda did just that instead of greymane being angry it was Tyrande

[ruby star]

Though Anduin made the right choice not sending help in my opinion.

[hollow dock]

It didn't Mak.

Tyrande isn't angry at the horde or the alliances response at them, she's angry at the lack of alliance support in taking back her homeland.

[unique crag]

So it did 😆

[hollow dock]

No?

She's angry at anduin for things not relating to the horde. She states this in the datamined dialogue of the cinematic. She's going to go and take Darkshore with or without alliance help as the alliance does not give aid to her.

[unique crag]

which implies there's less unity

with or without alliance help

[hollow dock]

Not at all? She's still apart of the alliance, she hasn't left it, she's going there with or without their help, they end up helping her in the end.

Where's the shaken unity?

[unique crag]

Both Shandris, Maiev and Tyrande's lines shows it

like

start of Alliance scenario is basically all about it

[hollow dock]

Despite the fact that the alliance has actually shown up?...Which further strengthens the Unity of the alliance.

[unique crag]

Shandris going "We were Alliance for so long, but now we're to fend for ourselves..."

Alliance doesn't, only Genn and PC

[hollow dock]

Yes because alliance support didn't arrive yet.

[unique crag]

Anduin doesnt send help

[hollow dock]

Genn is apart of the alliance as is the Lightforged. Which do end up going over there as seen with the Warfront.

[zealous basalt]

Honestly tho

It is acceptable for the human boy

To be between two sides

I dont think he has ever been in that dilema, like, if the scenario is before the siege, he gets focused in one thing

[hollow dock]

Like. There isn't anything showing they suddenly no longer believe in the alliance. They're doing their own thing because alliance couldn't give support. And even then, the other alliance members end up sending support.

[zealous basalt]

Tho I wonder if Anduin had a plan for Darkshore after Zandalar or something of sorts

[unique crag]

I don't know how you're interpreting Anduin, the High king of Alliance, not sending help as sign of Unity

[hollow dock]

possibly but Tyrande has always been a bit impatient.

Because the alliance isn't solely King Anduin

[unique crag]

High King*

[zealous basalt]

I dont think he has forgotten

It is more like

Priorities

[hollow dock]

High King of the Alliance only really means he controls the alliance military forces as a bulk. The other members are still independent in how they perform their duties.

[unique crag]

Ok I said it first, you're going to see internal conflict within Alliance in further patches. They're obviously setting it up because players asked it

[hollow dock]

Which a lot of people forget when it comes to the alliance. Unlike the horde, the alliance stands unified in its independence.

[zealous basalt]

Hmm

This reminds me to that pandaria scenario

Where Tyrande acts really impatient against Varian

[hollow dock]

See Jaina, whom while she is an alliance leader, has still been capable of being a member of the alliance without having to answer to Anduin directly.

See Tyrande who defended her home for ages and through most of these years without other alliance members outside of the Draenei every now and then.

There is no shaken unity unless suddenly this isn't how the alliance works.

[zealous basalt]

Yeah, I forgot about those moments

Des, I think we can see the warfront as alliance sending their troops to aid them

[unique crag]

https://i.imgur.com/M1dDrfi.png

https://i.imgur.com/eUEjaOr.png

Definitely not shaken

[hollow dock]

Except, as I already retorted, this is before OTHER ALLIANCE MEMEBRS give their support and aid.

[zealous basalt]

Elves arent really patient

[hollow dock]

See the warfront, Genn appearing.

[zealous basalt]

Or that's how it looks like here

[unique crag]

Genn helps them independently without representing Alliance

because he owes her personnally

[zealous basalt]

Except he represents Alliance too

[hollow dock]

He's still an alliance member giving aid, he's still a diplomat and leader of the alliance

Again

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE SENT BY ANDUIN TO BE ALLIANCE AID

jesus christo

[unique crag]

I'm really confused why you see Internal Conflict in the Alliance like a bad thing lol

[hollow dock]

I don't

[unique crag]

It's what Alliance players asked for years

[hollow dock]

Where does it state I see it as a bad thing?

[zealous basalt]

I never asked for internal conflict tho

[hollow dock]

This isn't a representation of alliance conflict. It's literally just Tyrande going off on her own, which is the right of all alliance leaders as seen in the past.

[zealous basalt]

Like

[hollow dock]

Now if Tyrande THREATENED to LEAVE

Alright that's shaken unity, shaken faith in the alliance.

[zealous basalt]

The ones that do that seem to be Horde > Alliance players

[terse patrol]

That fuzzy feeling when Hordies can’t whine about Rastakhan, when the Alliance loses Sira and Delaryn, and nearly lose Mekkatorque.

uwu

[unique crag]

It doesn't have to be to the point "I'm going to leave Alliance" to show internal conflict lol

[zealous basalt]

Although

[hollow dock]

Otherwise there is no real internal conflict.

[unique crag]

Those Shandris, Maiev, Tyrande being pissed at Anduin is already enough and I see Night Elf players being happy about it

[zealous basalt]

If the Cinematic says

[hollow dock]

It's about as conflicting as Jaina's views on the alliance during Legion

which despite her going off on her own

she's still a member

[zealous basalt]

Anduin saying that the time for aiding will be later

[hollow dock]

and comes to it's aid

there's literallyno reason to believe otherwise in this scenario

[zealous basalt]

It will make Night elves as really impatient beings

And honestly I believe it from Maiev

Wait

MAIEV DOESNT HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY IN THE MATTER

Ms "I left all my sentinels to hunt someone and almost takes my life"

[hollow dock]

Also got my sister killed

[zealous basalt]

That's really hypocrite coming from her

From shandris I take it

But Maiev?

Heck

[hollow dock]

Like sure. If this was an isolated incident and no history existed of similar events happening in the past

I'd accept that this is conflict

but otherwise

it's just for show

[unique crag]

Maiev literally becomes the commander when Shandris is literally there

Tyrande acknowledges her skill

[terse patrol]

Maiev is kooler tho

😉

[hollow dock]

cuz this isn't an isolated incident with no history saying otherwise.

[zealous basalt]

Doesnt mean she isnt a hypocrite

I just have something to say to Maiev

[terse patrol]

Des, do you remember who it was who was saying that the Wardens were neutral? @hollow dock

[hollow dock]

I'd imagine port

but the wardens have never been neutral

lol

[terse patrol]

lol

That was a painful argument.

Wonder what they think now

[zealous basalt]

And honestly Des

Tyrande calling bs for Anduin is bs

She leaves her peebs and things behind later in the scenario

You gotta have some dignity later, Tyrande

[terse patrol]

where was tyrande and malfurion at the broken shore 🤔

[zealous basalt]

OOF

Wait

Actually

:C

[unique crag]

Tyrande defying Anduin in not BS, he could've ended the war given the chance but pussies out even though Horde literally genocided one of their races.

[zealous basalt]

And how could he?

Like

Isnt what he is trying to do?

The moment she calls him out?

[unique crag]

Datamined strings shows Anduin could've ended Horde after Burning of Zuldazar

But he doesn't

because he didn't want to be Sylvanas whatever that means

[zealous basalt]

Do you think Sylvanas would end the war after the burning of zuldazar?

Honestly

Read what you just wrote

And think on it

[unique crag]

No, Anduin.

[zealous basalt]

...

I'm done with this convo

[unique crag]

Lol, i didn't even get what point you were trying to make

[zealous basalt]

Dude

Honestly

How can you end a war when the other side wont?

Sylvanas is not going to stop until she sees all the members of the Alliance dead

[unique crag]

I'm saying Tyrande calling out BS on Anduinhas a precedence

[zealous basalt]

She made it very clear

[hollow dock]

Doesn't understand that Anduin doesn't want to slaughter millions.

[zealous basalt]

And now how can you call it out

When Tyrande herself is making her fight?

And that is before siege

Now if Sylvanas somehow wanted to end the war after the Burning of Zuldazar

Then maybe he would call all his armies back

[terse patrol]

I’d be hella bummed if the Horde deposes Sylvanas, and just to make them feel better, has Saurfang the Tactical Genius force the Alliance to surrender.

[frozen dust]

"What's our strategy"
"Idk yell about honor and then get butthurt over it"
"Genius"

[unique crag]

Anduin pussying out after Burning of Zuldazar is totally in-character and makes sense for his character but Tyrande calling out BS on Anduin (who didn't even lived the duration of single breath of Tyrande's lifetime) has precedence when he's being naive

[zealous basalt]

Being more older doesnt mean less wise

Varian was wiser than her and we saw it on the scenario

[unique crag]

Anduin is anything but wise, at least for the moment

[zealous basalt]

And again, Tyrande and us dont know if Anduin was going to focus on Darkshore after Zuldazar

Which is a probability

And if he says that he was going to

Its impatience by the elves part

Velen said it once

It is a bad idea to fight two wars at the same time

[unique crag]

That's if Anduin actually says he'll help, guess we'll have to wait and see

[zealous basalt]

Yes

Anduin is all but a perfect tactician

[zinc sandal]

Anduin would've had spare forces if he hadn't decided to go to Lordaeron and show Sylvanas who had the bigger dick (Sylvanas did) instead of actually helping his allies in Darkshore when they were trying to push the Horde out.

[zealous basalt]

The original plan was going all in

But well

Blight

[zinc sandal]

I'm unaware of all the details, but I'm sure it was Genn who convinced him to attack Lordaeron.

All in all, hoomans are dumb. Tyrande should be High Queen. There, I said it.

[meager warren]

Why?

[hollow dock]

It wasn't Genn who convinced him mess

It wasn't Genn who convinced him mess

Anduin is the one who convinced Anduin to go to Lordaeron.

Cuz that's the horde'scapital.

where Sylvanas is. and to end the war, you capture or kill Sylvanas.

[zinc sandal]

The Horde's capital isn't Lordaeron.

That's the whole point of Sylvanas having been away from the Undercity.

And now the elves have no home of their own because of the Boy King's boy brain.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow dock]

Yes it was? that's why Sylvanas fled to Lordaeron

otherwise the attack would havebeen ya know.

Orgrimmar

[zinc sandal]

Was the Horde's capital the Echo Isles when Vol'jin was warchief?

[hollow dock]

No because Vol'jin was respectful of the Warchief'sthrone

However, Sylvanas does not share this respect.

[zealous basalt]

Vol'jin's home was always Orgrimmar in his heart

[hollow dock]

^ that too

[zinc sandal]

Sylvanas tried to be, too. Did you miss the whole parade part and the feast and everything?

[zealous basalt]

Sylvanas doesnt care about the mantle of the warchief

[leaden garden]

Sylvanas doesn't care about anything that's not Sylvanus

[hollow dock]

Then why would she flee to Lordaeron andnot Orgrimmar?

[leaden garden]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[zealous basalt]

She only wants the pros of being a warchief

[hollow dock]

Wouldn't being at the horde capital offer more defense and guards?

[zinc sandal]

How am I supposed to know that? o_o

[leaden garden]

Yes, but then she couldn't use the plague

[zealous basalt]

Sylvanas' home has been always

Lordaeron

[leaden garden]

Sylvy has had Undercity rigged to blow for decades

[zealous basalt]

Like

Heck she wouldnt care for orgrimmar

Because she has lordaeron

Why do you think she protected Lordaeron enough to blight it so no one could take it?

[hollow dock]

In which for rigging Lordaeron, onecan just as easily rig Orgrimmar is just as much time. In fact, it'd have been better to rig it that way

because once the alliance floods the city

you just cave in the canyon that orgrimmar is in

on top of them

[zealous basalt]

And that means no more home for Orcs and trolls

[hollow dock]

There's no home for the undead and the Trolls have the Echo Isle's back

So only orcs would be homeless.

[zealous basalt]

But Alliance didnt want that

[terse patrol]

Imagine if Sylvanas blighted Orgrimmar lol

[leaden garden]

She's not stupid enough to suicide-kamakaze orgimmar. That would be a bone-head move on her part

[zealous basalt]

It's not being stupid

[leaden garden]

The Horde is already on the verge of lynching her

[hollow dock]

except that's exactly what she did with Lordaeron?...

No they aren't lol

[zealous basalt]

Horde is loving her

[hollow dock]

Unlike Garrosh, Sylvanas has not alienated any of the horde.

[zealous basalt]

The NPCs

PCs do too

[hollow dock]

Baine is suspicious of her, but has no evidence against her.

Gallywix's pockets are lined

so he doesn't care

[zealous basalt]

Baine is just pissed

[terse patrol]

Baine is pretty alienated

[hollow dock]

Lor'themar respects her.

[zealous basalt]

But he kinda eats that hate

[hollow dock]

Saurfang follows the warchief until he was denied his honorable death

Baine isn't being forced or bodied out of official horde stuff

so no

he's not alienated

¯_(ツ)_/¯

All in all, Sylvanas to the horde's majority is a war hero and fantastic warchief that's putting down the alliance threat.

[jovial skiff]

Ok just waiting for saurfang to get an honorable death and have sylvanas bring him back to deny it

[terse patrol]

Baine: “i will be really grumpy about this but do nothing”

[zealous basalt]

I mean

Sylvanas did tell him that he could have his honorable death

And that's mostly a snap towards him

[jovial skiff]

You can't have your honorable death ad eat it too

Wait