#beta-ptr-spoilers | Wowhead: World of Warcraft (WoW) | Page 421

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:27 PM

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they clearly thought cata was better than vanilla history

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:27 PM

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Are you really going to try and toss that

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have you no other arguements

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OK. let me tell you why that arguement is bullshit.

zealous basalt Sep 30, 2018, 10:27 PM

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catfite

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:27 PM

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Back during Wrath of the Lich King

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do you remember what was the number 1 thing the community asked for?

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:28 PM

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I know why cata came to be

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:28 PM

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Asnwer

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don't dodge

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:28 PM

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people wanted the whole world to be affected by the events of later expansions

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:28 PM

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Exactly

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People wanted the world to be fluid

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and flexible

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they didn't want each expansion to be in its own little bubble

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little did people realize, that means leaving behind certain things for good

zealous basalt Sep 30, 2018, 10:29 PM

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like past expacs

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:29 PM

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as, at the time, we didn't have the bronze dragon NPCs

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:29 PM

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it certainly doesn't feel like that anymore, and since TBC and wrath are in bubbles of their own, why force us to go through them when they are outdated and irrelevant

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:29 PM

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Blizzard gave us what we wanted

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Why bother have a leveling experience to begin with by that logic Akr

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all leveling is irrelevant

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and outdated

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except legion and BFA

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:30 PM

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yeah hes right tbh just delete old expansions the moment a new one comes out

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:30 PM

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^

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:30 PM

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pandaria and wod are in bubbles, fuck em

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:30 PM

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remove em

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they're outdated

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irrelevant

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:30 PM

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"the moment a new one comes out"
it's been more time since cata came out, than the time between vanilla and cata

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1-90 would be a lot more fluid if cata started at 60

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:31 PM

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no it wouldnt

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:31 PM

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It wouldn't. It'd go the same

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but people mmiss out on 2 expacs of story

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:32 PM

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the difference is that those 2 expacs would still be accessible

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just not recommended in the guide

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:32 PM

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and ignored

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which means

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no ones going to even know it exists

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they'll just skip it and go forward on the path given

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You're effectively removing those 2 expansions

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so why not just admit that you'd want them removed?

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:33 PM

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Personally i think we should get another cata esque revamp
for ALL the older expansions

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:33 PM

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I don't want them removed, I want them out of the leveling experience

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:34 PM

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Like, new stuff is still happening in northrend
lets see it!

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:34 PM

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Considering they only exist for 2 things, leveling and farming by people who are aware theye xist

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:34 PM

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What happened to Outland after Legion?

hollow dock Sep 30, 2018, 10:34 PM

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you remove half of it

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and the people who are aware it exists dwindles

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You've done what reddit likes to call "Quarantine"

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a slow and horrid death.

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:34 PM

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reddit

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:35 PM

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it's in its own bubble anyway

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it's already dead once you outlevel it

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:35 PM

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well all of wow is in a bubble since its a video game
delete the whole thing

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:36 PM

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people who boost probably don't know outland exists

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northrend, possibly, if they get their artifact and are of a certain class & spec

(and getting artifact is probable thanks to annoying, pestering NPC that pops into existence in dalaran)

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:37 PM

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Well
tbh imo desu ka outland is boring to level through, at least hellfire
but hellfire is all you need to do so you can skip to wratch

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:37 PM

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well technically you could do boring tundra or howling fjord

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but I greatly dislike those zones, even compared to hellfire peninsula

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:38 PM

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I havent done either in a hot minute
will be quite soon though
So we'll see!

zealous basalt Sep 30, 2018, 10:38 PM

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Hellfire will put you in the lvl 73-4 range

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:38 PM

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Boring Tundra might just be an accurate name though >.>

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:38 PM

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it really is

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:38 PM

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yeah, hellfire got me to lvl 601 or so and the game then told me to go to northrend

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on that character

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:39 PM

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you can go to northrend at 58 (boring tundra or howling fjord)

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:39 PM

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and im like less than 5% through that xpac

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see, and I ignored it then

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and now its telling me to go to dragonblight

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which is enticing

zealous basalt Sep 30, 2018, 10:39 PM

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Thats the good part

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:39 PM

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the zones in Northrend are all just as empty as Boring Tundra; it's just that the landscapes of the rest of them make it more interesting

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for example, most have trees and mountains

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:40 PM

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I feel like every xpac except legion have empty zones

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and I guess bfas are kinda compact

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Legion just feels so dense though
maybe since I got to it late

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:40 PM

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Draenor zones are indeed pretty empty, except for Gorgrond and Tanaan Jungle.
it does a good job of masking the emptiness except for Shadowmoon Valley.

zealous basalt Sep 30, 2018, 10:40 PM

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Mop has pretty zones

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:41 PM

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MoP is very pretty, even if I dont like it much i'll give it that

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I'd love to take a walk there
maybe with a guard

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:41 PM

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ye it's pretty and all the zones do well at looking like they aren't empty

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:42 PM

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haha

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:42 PM

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legion and bfa zones are legitimately packed tho

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:42 PM

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bringing back memories

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I remember thinking abouth ow cool world bosses sounded

zealous basalt Sep 30, 2018, 10:42 PM

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BC is supposed to be empty tho

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WotLK is too, considering you are in a hostile land

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:43 PM

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I think world bosses should have a few here and there that are more complex
like, more of a world dungeon or mini raid

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:43 PM

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in outland, emptiness helps Hellfire Peninsula's atmosphere, Netherstorm cheats because there's a big void throughout it, the rest are good at covering it up

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:44 PM

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I dont like hellfire
zangar is cool though

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and what else
nagrand? and tanaan right?

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:44 PM

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tanaan = alternate hellfire

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:44 PM

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i dont even think I can name anything in those zones at all

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ah yeah thats wod

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whats the

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the other one

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:44 PM

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terrokar

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:44 PM

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terrokar

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:44 PM

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blade's edge

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:44 PM

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yep

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and shadowmoon

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I know blades edge

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Ive been there

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once or twice maybe

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:45 PM

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not a big fan of blade's edge

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:45 PM

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It's empty
except for all the spikes

heavy cairn Sep 30, 2018, 10:46 PM

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ye it's empty and IIRC it has several quests that have you kill an unreasonable amount of mobs

jovial skiff Sep 30, 2018, 10:46 PM

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go get me 50 bear asses!

gilded drum Oct 1, 2018, 1:06 AM

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Terrokar Forest was my favorite WoD zone. Simply because that’s the zone I was in when I dinged 98

dense plover Oct 1, 2018, 1:11 AM

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you mean talador?

lucid tree Oct 1, 2018, 9:52 AM

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does wowhead have the 3D viewers for any of the transmog from tides of vengeance

calm plank Oct 1, 2018, 10:14 AM

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not yet

native seal Oct 1, 2018, 11:28 AM

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Where is the BElf heritage armor >.<

dense plover Oct 1, 2018, 12:42 PM

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Not in the game yet

languid yoke Oct 1, 2018, 1:43 PM

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why is ptr updating like once every hour

high tinsel Oct 1, 2018, 1:59 PM

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I'd guess adding new stuff checking if the game still lives and then add more stuff

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but idk the exact procedure :- )

proud dome Oct 1, 2018, 2:06 PM

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Hey mrpeach

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Is des desmephisto?

dense plover Oct 1, 2018, 2:13 PM

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Ptr updating is a bug

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I recommend setting updates to manual until tomorrow or whenever the next build is pushed

ruby star Oct 1, 2018, 3:29 PM

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📎 unknown.png

zealous basalt Oct 1, 2018, 3:31 PM

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oof

ruby star Oct 1, 2018, 3:37 PM

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THe new guard armour looks great

high tinsel Oct 1, 2018, 3:41 PM

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cries in blood elf

hollow dock Oct 1, 2018, 3:41 PM

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ehhhhhhhhhhh

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Their other set looked much better

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can we get a portrait shot @ruby star ? So that we can see their weapons and shield.

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Can't tell if they changed or not

ruby star Oct 1, 2018, 3:42 PM

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I can try, but it keeps crashing, you gotta walk backwards and if you look outside it @hollow dock

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📎 unknown.png

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@hollow dock This a better shot?

hollow dock Oct 1, 2018, 3:53 PM

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Much better thanks <3

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OK so they lost their dual-blades

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the HD shields look nice

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also, female guards

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how progressive

ruby star Oct 1, 2018, 3:54 PM

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Yeah, it looks great

zealous basalt Oct 1, 2018, 3:56 PM

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Did they lose them? the weapons in the datamining stuff seemed to be dual edged

ruby star Oct 1, 2018, 3:56 PM

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I can look behind her if you want, but game is a 50-50 if it will crash or not, perhaps skybox is causing issues, outside crashes game

high tinsel Oct 1, 2018, 3:57 PM

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You can see a little of the other edge of the weapon on the first picture

zealous basalt Oct 1, 2018, 3:57 PM

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ye

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try a bit

hollow dock Oct 1, 2018, 4:01 PM

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No idea if it's the second blade of if it's like the alliance weapons where it has a small dagger at the bottom

zealous basalt Oct 1, 2018, 4:02 PM

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let me find da weapon again

calm plank Oct 1, 2018, 4:02 PM

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on the datamined models it had a second blade

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I remember it

terse patrol Oct 1, 2018, 4:03 PM

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They still have dual blades @hollow dock

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You just cant see the other blade from the front

zealous basalt Oct 1, 2018, 4:04 PM

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📎 790324.png

ruby star Oct 1, 2018, 4:04 PM

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Furthest people have got is too the flightmaster

hollow dock Oct 1, 2018, 4:04 PM

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ah ok

zealous basalt Oct 1, 2018, 4:06 PM

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its like the game is like "oh no bois, you can't come here yet"

calm plank Oct 1, 2018, 4:55 PM

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and the players are like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWULCfJ2PGA

YouTube

Cave Rave

how bout i do anyway

▶ Play video

zinc sandal Oct 1, 2018, 5:35 PM

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PTR still buggy or?

whole cedar Oct 1, 2018, 5:47 PM

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it should be -mostly- fine if you use DX11 but it still crashes in a couple places

dense plover Oct 1, 2018, 6:03 PM

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It’s a mess overall. It should get better next build

heavy cairn Oct 1, 2018, 6:42 PM

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I hope so

zealous basalt Oct 1, 2018, 8:44 PM

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Oh

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so it will be the burning of zuldazar

uncut vault Oct 1, 2018, 10:15 PM

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been burning since the first ptr build

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dunno why wowhead didnt catch on to that

zealous basalt Oct 1, 2018, 10:18 PM

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time to riot?

dense plover Oct 1, 2018, 11:49 PM

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dont think burning zuldazar = it burns down forever

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especially since its made of gold and brick

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two things that generally dont burn well

zealous basalt Oct 1, 2018, 11:53 PM

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What if it gets melt

jovial skiff Oct 1, 2018, 11:55 PM

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Yeah we don't know how hot Azerite burns

uncut vault Oct 1, 2018, 11:57 PM

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probably going to be burning part of the jungle

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because its burning of zuldazar

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not dazar'alor

zealous basalt Oct 2, 2018, 12:01 AM

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Burning of Zandalar

plain vigil Oct 2, 2018, 12:05 AM

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@ruby star ThE nEW ARmoUr LoOkS gOoD

uncut vault Oct 2, 2018, 12:29 AM

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Oh, they added gloves to the guard set, thank god

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that was the one thing missing

jade basalt Oct 2, 2018, 12:37 AM

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It mainly means that Silvermoon guards can finally be females as well.

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They were all male previously because the shield and spear etc. were all part of the same model, which was male.

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Now they're equippable items, given to both male and female NPCS.

uncut vault Oct 2, 2018, 12:43 AM

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@ruby star any idea what's up in SMC? seems to be something near Lor'themar, breaks the game when you get near court of the sun

plain vigil Oct 2, 2018, 2:14 AM

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Silly MindWont, women can’t gaurd. /s

uncut vault Oct 2, 2018, 2:16 AM

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you say /s, but Ive seen unironic posts saying that female guards in stormwind need to be given guns, because they wouldnt be able to guard as well as men with swords

zealous basalt Oct 2, 2018, 2:16 AM

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Nani

uncut vault Oct 2, 2018, 2:16 AM

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forums know no bounds

zealous basalt Oct 2, 2018, 2:43 AM

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Poor CMs

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I wonder if the payment is worth the neurones lost

meager warren Oct 2, 2018, 2:44 AM

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I think the answer to that is a no

zealous basalt Oct 2, 2018, 2:51 AM

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Can figure it

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I mean even thulm may lose some of his neurones reading certain individuals that come and go in this discord

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 7:08 AM

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I mean, I'm prob gonna get hate for this, but objectively speaking, the average man is better suited for physical tasks than the average women

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please don't kill me

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Now, this is a game, obviously

heavy cairn Oct 2, 2018, 7:37 AM

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but the trained guards of a city are not "average" in any way

calm plank Oct 2, 2018, 7:56 AM

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^

jovial skiff Oct 2, 2018, 8:05 AM

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Yeah, wow certainly isn't going for any kind of historical realism
Would women have often been knights or guards in medieval times? No
But would an orc death knight ever even exist?

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Anyways, I want to make a kul Tirana and a dark iron character but idk what classes to do for each of them
Not really interested in playing Druid at all tbh despite the cool models kul Tirans get, or shamans for dark iron
Really I think I just need to decide which one to make the hunter and what to do with the other

heavy cairn Oct 2, 2018, 8:10 AM

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I think Dark Iron hunter makes more sense than Kul Tiran

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honestly, for a Kul Tiran, I've no clue what makes sense (other than a druid of course). a warrior, maybe? lol

jovial skiff Oct 2, 2018, 9:03 AM

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I already have a warrior and a monk
And I plan to do a gnome/void elf mage or warlock but not sure which of those will do which class

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 11:45 AM

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You do realize that women weren't knights and warriors at the time due to sexism that you're spouting right now right? @native seal @jovial skiff

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 11:46 AM

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Is not sexism, is realism

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 11:46 AM

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It absolutely is sexism

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saying a women is not as capable as a man is blatant sexism

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 11:47 AM

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Give me 5 minutes, I'm buying food and I'll explain

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 11:47 AM

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No need

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You're informed

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Women were put to death and tried as witches and pagans for trying to be what men were. It was blatant sexism.See Joan of Arc

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 11:48 AM

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Nobody is talking about that

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 11:51 AM

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We're no longer talking about anything. It was sexism. It's still sexism.

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 11:53 AM

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What I was trying to say is the following

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Women are not as physically strong as men, by biology

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If you're a guard, you're trying to protect stuff from something

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That something doesn't care if you're a man or a woman,and the labor to stop someone, specially in the middle age where no guns are involved, required physical strength

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That's why a man was a better guard than a woman. If you want to call it se ism, go ahead

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 11:55 AM

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that's again sexism

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you're saying that our current day soldiers

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aren't equal

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 11:56 AM

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If biology is sexist, then yes lmao

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 11:56 AM

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That mymother, who lost an arm

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saving two men

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 11:56 AM

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I said middle age if you can read

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 11:56 AM

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isn't as strong as those she saved

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 11:56 AM

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But yeah, women are not strong as men and that's a fact, blame biology

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There's a reason 95% of fireman are men

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 11:57 AM

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No

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it isn't

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Soare you saying that the female firefighters are bad attheir job?

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 11:57 AM

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They're worse than in average yes, because they have less strength and fire gives no fuck about your gender

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 11:58 AM

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<@&299347348847329281> can we get this to stop.

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 11:58 AM

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Lmao, OK dude, think whatever you want

rotund sorrel Oct 2, 2018, 11:58 AM

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Yeah cuz this isn’t even the right place for this

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 11:59 AM

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I'll stop but I wasn't the one that brought this up

rotund sorrel Oct 2, 2018, 11:59 AM

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You were the one who brought up the example

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 11:59 AM

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Yeah cause he called me sexist outta nowhere and I proved my point

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Shouldn't I defend myself?

rotund sorrel Oct 2, 2018, 11:59 AM

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Not the place.

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And as a female, I’m not a huge fan of your comments

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 12:00 PM

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Two things, one. I was being objective in all my points and using facts.

rotund sorrel Oct 2, 2018, 12:01 PM

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Now if you want to continue that conversation, you can do so in dms but seeing as this is for the ptr, I’m going to have to ask you to stop

native seal Oct 2, 2018, 12:01 PM

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Fine I'll stop, but I don't think we're stopping for the right reasons. Have a nice day

heavy cairn Oct 2, 2018, 4:55 PM

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🤔

zealous basalt Oct 2, 2018, 4:58 PM

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insert thonk here

sullen dagger Oct 2, 2018, 4:59 PM

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banhammer incoming

dense plover Oct 2, 2018, 5:15 PM

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Right reasons to stop - 1. Wrong channel

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Mod said to stop

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That’s the only reasons you need

meager warren Oct 2, 2018, 5:23 PM

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Wtf was that convo

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Smh, anyway..

About ptr

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What's new

karmic copper Oct 2, 2018, 5:25 PM

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lots of crashing and glitches

zealous basalt Oct 2, 2018, 5:26 PM

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waiting for the belf heritage armor

karmic copper Oct 2, 2018, 5:27 PM

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the usual things that happen in ptrs

calm plank Oct 2, 2018, 5:39 PM

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I hope the armor is not a robe tho

static yarrow Oct 2, 2018, 6:07 PM

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The armor is going to be a robe

calm plank Oct 2, 2018, 6:07 PM

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cease

jovial skiff Oct 2, 2018, 6:08 PM

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But what if I wear
Plate

calm plank Oct 2, 2018, 6:08 PM

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nightborne don't care if you wear plate

meager warren Oct 2, 2018, 6:12 PM

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Nightborne don't judge

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 6:21 PM

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Robes dont care if youre plate

jovial skiff Oct 2, 2018, 7:32 PM

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Hey anybody know more info on the night elves new customization stuff? If I unlock it how do I apply it? Do you have to make a new character entirely?
I assume nobody knows yet tbh but it's worth asking to me

strange falcon Oct 2, 2018, 7:55 PM

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https://i.imgur.com/iyL39cJ.gifv
Ion on the state of wow

Imgur

Time to buy a Lottery ticket...

▶ Play video

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 8:25 PM

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@jovial skiff in every single Wowheadpost that mentions it links to the full scenario

uncut vault Oct 2, 2018, 8:30 PM

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It’s unlocked by completing the Tyrande scenario, which is likely a post-war campaign thing

granite heart Oct 2, 2018, 8:30 PM

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anything about prot warrior buffs?

uncut vault Oct 2, 2018, 8:30 PM

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They’re a skin option, which you can now change in the barber on any character

dense plover Oct 2, 2018, 9:09 PM

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literally we have had 1 patch of extremely preliminary changes

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we know pretty much nothing about forthcoming class changes

frozen adder Oct 2, 2018, 9:10 PM

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@jovial skiff There are kilts that come down to your feet for paladins so robes can be plate sometimes.

zealous basalt Oct 2, 2018, 9:10 PM

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They are supposed to have someeg armor below

jovial skiff Oct 2, 2018, 9:33 PM

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@frozen adder yeah, the paladin set from forelands was basically cloth

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 10:01 PM

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Do you think Judgement is cloth then?

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just cuz its a robe. Ignoring the fact that plate robes exist for Crusaders and Paladins

jovial skiff Oct 2, 2018, 10:13 PM

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What?

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 10:16 PM

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Firelands tier was a plate robe set.

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Oneof many that paladins have

jovial skiff Oct 2, 2018, 10:16 PM

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Yeah

tranquil steeple Oct 2, 2018, 10:16 PM

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[stares at Lightsworn set from ICC]

jovial skiff Oct 2, 2018, 10:17 PM

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It's cool but it's has a ton of cloth
Could easily be a set for a mage too
Especially since the line on cloth and leather and plate seems to blur often

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Oh and mail, I forget that one

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 10:17 PM

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Not entirely? It's a plate robe.

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It being a robe doesn't mean itgoes onto a mage. As seen with the Judgement set, tier 2 I think it is for paladins.

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Which was the firstplate robe set.

jovial skiff Oct 2, 2018, 10:25 PM

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I didn't say it should be mage because of robe, but because of a lot of cloth and also because mage gear has a lot of extra stuff on it too sometimes

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And the fire theme I guess

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 10:48 PM

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But nothing on there is cloth. It's all plate. O.o

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the only thing that looks like cloth is the chest plate.

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which is the robe

heavy cairn Oct 2, 2018, 10:49 PM

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I think skylor's point is that plenty of cloth does not look like cloth

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which I disagree with

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it's only little things on the cloth armor that doesn't look like cloth

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not the whole set

hollow dock Oct 2, 2018, 11:01 PM

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we're talking about the firelands paladin tier set. he is claiming it looks like it's mostly cloth and thus fits on a mage

jovial skiff Oct 2, 2018, 11:34 PM

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Yes, I think the firelands paladin ties set would fit a mage just fine and I stand by that

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 12:20 AM

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Try that set with a different chest piece and then say that

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Because if that’s still the case, you might need to get your vision inspected

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 12:27 AM

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/496784270283505675/496836620448825357/alidcnpt.png

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@dense plover @hollow dock

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Had to share this

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I really like this

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 12:30 AM

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wat dis

uncut vault Oct 3, 2018, 12:30 AM

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A concept

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 12:30 AM

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a koncept

heavy cairn Oct 3, 2018, 12:31 AM

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we don't need san'layn

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give us sethrak

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not the alliance scum

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 12:31 AM

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Sethrak is Alliance

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you deaf beast

heavy cairn Oct 3, 2018, 12:31 AM

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how about sethrak is just neutral

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then we both get it

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 12:31 AM

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no

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you want sneks

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go alliance you filthy horde trash

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Horde doesn't deserve anything else

heavy cairn Oct 3, 2018, 12:32 AM

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I'm already satisfied with what alliance has/is getting

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I'm satisifed with horde too, but alliance doesn't deserve sneks

#

not more than horde

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 12:33 AM

#

And you think Horde deserve it?

#

HAH

heavy cairn Oct 3, 2018, 12:33 AM

#

well

#

you want high elves

#

go horde you filthy alliance trash

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 12:33 AM

#

The first part of the war campaign is helping the sneks

#

so

#

SO

jovial skiff Oct 3, 2018, 12:34 AM

#

Same, we didn't even need void elves tbh but I'm not complaining

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 12:34 AM

#

have fun with your furries

jovial skiff Oct 3, 2018, 12:35 AM

#

No thanks, vulpera can go away

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 12:35 AM

#

Nah m8, horde will get them

#

and we are going to get sneks

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 12:50 AM

#

I'd rather get blood trolls than vulpera

#

But just to spite vris, i'm happy to get more furries

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 1:40 AM

#

Vris don't like em?

#

They honestly are really cool. Kiro, etc.

#

Bloodthirsty little savages

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 1:41 AM

#

gently touches ground

#

Something terrible happened here

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 1:45 AM

#

DIdya see this?

#

📎 cxqvptdw9up11.png

#

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9kurfk/future_of_azeroth_post_bfa_speculationhopesideas/

r/wow - Future of Azeroth post BFA speculation/hopes/ideas

49 votes and 48 comments so far on Reddit

#

Thought it was a neat idea

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 1:46 AM

#

i can't see things

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 1:46 AM

#

Follow the link

#

you can zoom in on that one

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 1:47 AM

#

I can see it now

#

Hmm

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 1:49 AM

#

I don't like it blobdenypeek

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 1:50 AM

#

Why not

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 1:52 AM

#

It makes whole point of Tyrande and Night Elves going Night Warrior and fighting to reclaim Darkshore a futile tragic event.

Especially when you consider Tyrande's "I'm going to fight with or without Alliance" was one of best moments of Night Elves post bfa after their unending tragedies

#

Nope, let's just keep losing!

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 1:54 AM

#

Imo, anything that knocks tyrande off her high horse is a plus

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 1:55 AM

#

I never got the appeal of Tyrande but Night Elves need their fistbump moment that can make up for Burning of Teldrasill

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 1:55 AM

#

dey will have one

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 1:56 AM

#

Well

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 1:56 AM

#

Losing to Forsaken is gonna be great moment for Night Warriors

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 1:56 AM

#

Having a single town in a sea of horde is not gonna go well

#

And horde can't be losing everything, lol. I am not saying they'll win, but it is possible

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 1:57 AM

#

Idk about The Horde but the true loser is Sylvanas

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 1:59 AM

#

Most players I know that main Night Elf gave up on story and some unsubbed, they seemed to hate losing Teldrasill but they'd be ok if it portrayed Night Elves as at least competent but sadly it kinda didn't

#

And kick in the gut was Night Elves/Tyrande not trying to fight back in 8.0 which actually seems to be coming in 8.1

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:01 AM

#

Honestly

#

Those posts were really sad

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:01 AM

#

Night Elves are doing just fine storywise.

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:01 AM

#

What in tarnation are you on

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:01 AM

#

They are getting development and spotlight

#

Motivation for the war, back to their roots like wc3

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:02 AM

#

Kham

#

As a night elf

#

You get through the prepatch

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:02 AM

#

Burning of Teldrasill's entire purpose was just to be used for Humans to get motivation to fight and reclaim Lordaeron and it sucks

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 2:02 AM

#

I wonder if i can paint tyrande as a hypocrite about her and nightborne and teldrassil

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:02 AM

#

With no real retallation

#

Like

#

They fought for Lordaeron, but not really for the Night elves

#

Or did you read a "this be for Teldrassil"?

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 2:02 AM

#

This'a be for Teldrassil'a

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:03 AM

#

Genn says something like that it's retaliation for Teldrasill in BfL event

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:03 AM

#

It seems that Alliance honestly forgot them, which is why Tyrande talked like that in the datamined text

#

And that hurts

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:04 AM

#

Exactly. They may have been cast out of their home. But they are getting good development.

#

Tyrande becoming this vengeful leader

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:04 AM

#

How?

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:04 AM

#

Would you rather them not get anything? e.e Any development is good.

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:04 AM

#

That's not gonna be enjoyable story for Night Elves if they get beaten by Horde again

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:05 AM

#

It doesn't seem like they are going to be beaten

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:05 AM

#

Dawn, we don't know what is happening

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:05 AM

#

Yeah I hope so, they should win Darkshore

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:05 AM

#

That is jumping to conclusions

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:05 AM

#

They should

#

And maybe will push back again

#

Maybe

#

I haven't seen the power of the Night Warrior still

#

If Tyrande as a night warrior kicks everyone's ass

#

They its a sure win

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:06 AM

#

Yeah Khamnin I was just explaining why I didn't like that map with Nelves losing everything

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:06 AM

#

You know what's kinda funny

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:06 AM

#

But not an alliance win

#

A Night elf win

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 2:06 AM

#

Maybe now Tyrande knows how the Nightborne feel

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:06 AM

#

Nightborne say that Elune's wisdom guided then away eme

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 2:06 AM

#

Wat

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:06 AM

#

Where's Elune's wisdom now Tyrande?

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:06 AM

#

@zealous basalt Night Warrior should be extremely powerful, it's Warrior side of Elune

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:07 AM

#

Delaryn forsakes Elune

#

It is interesting

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:07 AM

#

Kham

#

If you didn't put attention

#

Tyrande calls it on Elune

#

She starts calling her bullshit

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:08 AM

#

That's my point

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:09 AM

#

I think Elune did to every night elf...maybe in order for they to archieve the night warrior form

#

idk how gods act

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:11 AM

#

Like...they are all about elune in legion

#

Tyrande says they will see where Elune's wisdom guided them

#

-fast forward to now-

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:12 AM

#

8.1 is going to be so nice

#

In terms of story that is

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 2:13 AM

#

Yup

#

I am excited

#

I hope we see more of these maghar

#

I just unlocked them

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:14 AM

#

Prolly

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 3:19 AM

#

https://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=145674/uraka-wildthunder#modelviewer:10+0

Wowhead

Uraka Wildthunder

The location of this NPC is unknown. In the NPCs category. Added in World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth. Always up to date with the latest patch.

#

New blackrock orc

#

She is in charge of creating Iron Stars apparently

#

"Whoo! Your iron star made my post shake all the way from the front gates, Uraka!
Uraka smiles.
I knew you'd appreciate my genius eventually.
We gotta make more of them. Hundreds of them... Millions of them... Bomb-billions of them!
Heh. You bring the Azerite, and I'll bring the boom, lil' one.
Deal! That's a binding contract!"

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:33 AM

#

...Wasn't the creator...

#

nah

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 3:34 AM

#

What?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:41 AM

#

oh shit

#

iron stars and a goblin

#

i hope we get iron stars in a warfront or something

#

or a mount

#

😛

uncut vault Oct 3, 2018, 3:43 AM

#

theyre a part of the incursions

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 AM

#

That’s cool

#

I approve

#

So I assume alliance incursions use mole machines?

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 3:55 AM

#

How do you know? @uncut vault

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 4:04 AM

#

khadgarface

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 4:06 AM

#

Did I miss something

uncut vault Oct 3, 2018, 4:08 AM

#

alliance defense in tiragarde involves the horde using iron stars

tulip sun Oct 3, 2018, 4:09 AM

#

Hm, ok.

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 4:25 AM

#

neat

plain vigil Oct 3, 2018, 5:23 AM

#

So

#

I did some research on Gnolls

#

Apparently the redridge gnolls are under the service of a warlock who was looking for the scythe of Elune and was reasercging dragons

#

If he isn't already a black dragon, he may have something to do with a Dragon isles patch

#

Thus Horde would get Gnolls for after that patch

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 5:25 AM

#

Where is your source?

plain vigil Oct 3, 2018, 5:40 AM

#

Questing in redridge mountains...

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 5:40 AM

#

that happened ages ago

#

Like canonically

plain vigil Oct 3, 2018, 5:41 AM

#

The npc never died, and was replaced post cata.

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 5:41 AM

#

The warlock

#

was the dragon

#

We kill him

plain vigil Oct 3, 2018, 5:43 AM

#

Was it or was that the replacement

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 5:43 AM

#

Was it

#

Like anything that happened in those areas just ended there

#

The scythe was recovered by druids later

#

And most of the gnolls were killed

plain vigil Oct 3, 2018, 5:45 AM

#

Morganth was replaced when cata hit meaning Morganth is still out there.

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 5:48 AM

#

People pre cata killed Morganth

#

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Morganth_(quest)

Wowpedia

Morganth (quest)

plain vigil Oct 3, 2018, 5:49 AM

#

Nope he teleopts away

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 5:50 AM

#

"You have done well, <name>. In defeating the warlock Morganth, Stormwind is saved from a grave peril. I offer you this reward most humbly. And I would bid you peace, if these were peaceful times. But instead, I will bid you luck with your trials, and victory in the conflicts ahead."

#

Doesn't look like so

#

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Pendant_of_Shadow

Wowpedia

Pendant of Shadow

plain vigil Oct 3, 2018, 5:51 AM

#

Deafeated doesn't equal kill

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 5:51 AM

#

Is a drop from him too so

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 6:21 AM

#

defeated doesn't equal kill

plain vigil Oct 3, 2018, 6:37 AM

#

He tps away and it drops from his minnion

limber mural Oct 3, 2018, 11:09 AM

#

well based on datamined voicelines

#

zandalari paladins as NPCs for sure is almost certain

#

as playable, idk maybe

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 11:11 AM

#

Keep as a reminder that we have no idea what happens to the prelates post recruitment. For now, the Loa at the top is Bwonsamdi.

#

And unless we're betraying him, well.

strange falcon Oct 3, 2018, 2:31 PM

#

well,there are prelates in the raid

#

so they have to be getting their powers

#

from SOMEWHERE

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:32 PM

#

not really

#

Prelates didn't get power from Rezan - he wasn't related to Light at all, they get their holy power from devotion/faith etc

#

but Rezan's death might've killed their spirit and weakened them but enough to make a raid boss

strange falcon Oct 3, 2018, 2:34 PM

#

then why are prelates being regarded "out of the question" with rezan's death

#

if they dont get their powers from him

#

o.o

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:35 PM

#

Because only Rezan had prelates and without it, Prelates doesn't have a Loa to revere/devote and wouldn't be able to channel Holy Power

#

They just need another Loa to revere, doesn't have to be Light related

#

I'm like 100% sure Zandalari Paladins will be a thing

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 2:40 PM

#

A god of death gives you faith int he light

#

🤔 🤔 🤔

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 2:49 PM

#

Rezan is not the only one who had prelates lol

#

The dialogue with the Prelates of Rezan says "the highest order of holy warriors", meaning there are others. They're simply the most notable

#

That said, I agree that Zanda Paladins are going to become a thing eventually. Potentially, Voljin could be our new loa. Eyir called him a "Force of Valor" which sounds awful Paladin-esque imo

#

But there's also An'she, who could potentially imbue them again, and the Sunwell (though that's unlikely since the Belves are suuuuuuuper protective of it)

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 2:51 PM

#

Paladins at the servise of voljin

#

I don't mind them at all

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 2:52 PM

#

^ Right? I would 100% be on board with Voljin, Loa of Valor

#

I mean, I'm gonna be faction changing to a zandalari paladin one way or another, but I'd be doing it with 1000% more gusto for Voljin lol

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 2:54 PM

#

I don't quite understand why. It's the same paladin stuff. You're just a genocider at that point

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 2:55 PM

#

huh?

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:55 PM

#

Yeah Zanda's should get new loa - not anshe or sunwell lol and be their own thing

#

That's how Horde Paladins should be, each different groups unlike Alliance ones

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 2:55 PM

#

Unlike? Well technically only 2 (3 I guess with Dark Iron) races are actual "Paladins" nad that's Humans and Dwarves

#

Draenei are technically Vindicators and function a little differently

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:56 PM

#

They're all clumped under "Silver Hand" though

#

and Night Elf Paladins seems like they'll be clumped too when they're playable, one arc of Legion Order Hall is dedicated to it

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 2:56 PM

#

Well technically so are some Blood Knights and Sunwalkers per Legion

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 2:57 PM

#

Nelf paladins dont exist as their own independant group

#

so you can't really speak on that

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 2:57 PM

#

Also didn't Blizz say the order-class-hall stuff is non-cannon?

#

canon*

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:57 PM

#

Blood Knights and Sunwalkers are no longer part of Silver Hand

#

in BfA

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 2:57 PM

#

Now if you want to legitimately look at all the paladin groups

#

There are two sects of the Silver Hand that exist now. Ironforge and Stormwind. The Draenei vindicators are their own independant group.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 2:57 PM

#

^

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:58 PM

#

I kinda meant that Zandalari should be their own thing in how they get their power - in their case "devoted to Loa"

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 2:58 PM

#

And the LF Draenei Paladins are all like Arch-Vindicators

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 2:58 PM

#

The Order of the Silver Hand that exists right now is the leftovers of the Argent Dawn and Crusade banding together with the other paladin orders like the Sunwalkers, Blood Knights, Vindicators, etc to fight the Legion.

#

Lorewise they will

#

gameplay wise

#

they wont

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 2:58 PM

#

I think we're all saying the same thing here lol

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 2:58 PM

#

they never will. cuz that's how the classes work

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 2:59 PM

#

And all Alliance Paladins get their power from Light in same way afaik

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 2:59 PM

#

Ehhh not really

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 2:59 PM

#

Only the humans and Dwarves.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 2:59 PM

#

Dwarves/Humans get it via Faith and Conviction

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 2:59 PM

#

and even then, Dwarf paladins don't technically exist as of Cataclysm

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

Hence why the Scarlet Crusde, being batshit crazy, can still weild it

#

wield*

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

as their own order of people

#

It's a bit of both spider

#

the Light is neutral

#

it does not care what you're doing it for

#

massacre of a village or crusade against the demons

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

What makes Draenei Paladin and Human Paladin different

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

Vindicators wield it as a direct empowerment via the Naaru

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

if you're righteous and have the faith and vindication, the light answers your call

#

whcih is why it left Arthas.

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

they don't have Naaru now though

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

He lost that faith and conviction.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

....

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

Yes they do Dawn. There are more Naaru out there.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

^

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

Oro wasn't their only Naaru

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:01 PM

#

There's several, quite a few in fact lol

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:01 PM

#

it was just the last descendant of the Prime Naaru

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 3:01 PM

#

And Vindicators can get their holy power from any Naaru they want from any part of Cosmos?

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:01 PM

#

This is also why Vindicators tend to be more aggressive in their use of the light

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:01 PM

#

Yes. That's how magic works

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:01 PM

#

Since their power doesn't come from faith/conviction but rather as empowerment

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:02 PM

#

Which is also why you see Maarad go angel form in WoD's opening

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:02 PM

#

I miss Maarad

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:02 PM

#

We all miss Maarad

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:02 PM

#

Shouldn't have killed him off for Yrel

#

That opening scene in WoD ❤

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:02 PM

#

if they didn't fucking cut the content that sacrifice would have made sense

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

I still think, when they changed the "Judgement" animation for pally, they should've changed it to that light-beam Maarad did with his hammer

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

originally Yrel was supposed to be the AU of Maarad's wife. The woman holding the child in his warbringers short

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

.........Oh damn

#

I didn't know that

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

The one he let die.

#

But then they had to cut all sorts of stuff out for time

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

That short was awesome

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

The shorts were epic af

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

If you listen to that woman, it's Yrel's voice actress too.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

No lie, WoD made me love Draenei

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

WoD shorts were indeed epic

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:04 PM

#

Say what you want about the xpac, but it made me like Draenei

#

And then Legion came along and gave me Lightforged Draenei 🤤

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:04 PM

#

It angers me that WoD was so gimped

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 3:04 PM

#

I mean some characters were cool but as a race, it didnt feel that much different than MU ones

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:04 PM

#

they weren't supposed to

#

just like the Mag'har orcs the horde just got

#

they are almost no different to the current ones

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:05 PM

#

Idk, I felt the "Draenor" Draenei were a little more bamf than the Exodar ones, personally

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:05 PM

#

They got more fleshed out than the ones on Azeroth

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:05 PM

#

True

#

That's probably it

#

Also seeing pre-Broken Akama was epic

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:05 PM

#

Velen takes no shit in the Rise of the Horde book

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:05 PM

#

VELEN

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:06 PM

#

WoD was a potential good expac

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:06 PM

#

Yeh

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:07 PM

#

it infuriates me the more I think of it

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:07 PM

#

Admittedly, I enjoyed it. I liked Ashran and Tanaan and Ret Paladin felt epic in WoD

#

And I still had my seals in WoD -_-

#

And exorcism..

#

Final Verdict too

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:07 PM

#

seals didnt add much for me tbh

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:07 PM

#

We had the best content patch too

#

8.1

#

heaviest of all+

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:07 PM

#

it was just an arbitrary buff I had to keep up

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:08 PM

#

I felt seals were part of the class fantasy. It made us less shiny-arms-warrior and more like a Holy Knight

#

And they did cool things, and had different uses/utility

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:09 PM

#

Now granted

#

I played PVE

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:09 PM

#

I didn't mind the upkeep, also because I've played Ret for over a decade and it was just part of the class

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:09 PM

#

so

#

not really for me

#

I used 1 seal and that was it

#

it was just a buff I had to hit.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:09 PM

#

...How?

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:09 PM

#

I only dungeoned and raided.

#

So whichever gave me the most DPS

#

and that was it

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:09 PM

#

There were at least 2 seals you could've/should've used, especially for dungeons

#

One gave you more AoE, one was for single target

#

w/e, personal preference I suppose. I liked it. I liked Blessing of Might too ---

#

-_-*

#

Heh, remember back in.... BC I think it was, we had Blessings and GREATER Blessings

#

Regular Blessing was on one person, Greaters hit the whole raid/party

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:11 PM

#

And they fused them both

#

that was a good change tbh

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:11 PM

#

Oh God yes

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:12 PM

#

Well, raid wide buff were a great change

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:12 PM

#

Won't debate that at all, just remembered it and chuckled to myself

#

100% raid-wide buffs > singular buffs. I wish I could at least put wisdom on the whole raid

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:13 PM

#

Also someone that gets my share on the Final Verdict

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:14 PM

#

Yuh dude, I loved it. The over-head-smash animation, the DAMAGE

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:15 PM

#

and the "clink"

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:15 PM

#

First time I saw it I was in-love, especially cause I was reppin' the Hammer of the Naaru and getting a "Hammer on the nail" animation made me sooooo happy

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:16 PM

#

The 8.0 verdict is godd

#

good

#

better than the legion one

#

Legion's verdict was just

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:19 PM

#

I've never been a huge fan of TV or the "combo-points" system for us in general

#

It was a botchy mechanic in Warhammer Online for Warpriests that feels botchy and clunky in WoW too

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:21 PM

#

I like them, like, its a good side resource

jade basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:29 PM

#

So they just finished recording Sylvanas and Jaina's voice lines for 8.1

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:29 PM

#

Annnd?

#

Something good to hear?

jade basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:30 PM

#

We'll see in future builds. 😛

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:30 PM

#

Are they both dead? Please say they're both dead

jade basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:30 PM

#

Nah. We already had the text anyway, it was just missing the voice.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:30 PM

#

Oh

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:34 PM

#

why kill Jaina?

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:37 PM

#

She's annoying and I'm tired of Mary-Sue's dominating WoW

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:38 PM

#

I don't think Jaina is a Mary Sue...

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:39 PM

#

She's not a mary sue hwat

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:40 PM

#

She would be like...the counterpart of a Mary Sue?

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:40 PM

#

esplain yourself Spiderdad.

#

also how is she annoying?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:43 PM

#

She is literally the opposite of a Mary Sue. Yrel is a Mary Sue

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

^

#

Jaina's had what. 5 expacs of build up, three books, a comic and an animated short?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

A Mary Sue is a character that is as generic as possible

#

Jaina is the opposite of generic

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

Jaina is a frost mage who showed up at the perfect moment with a magical ship to magically dispel the poison about to kill the alliance and then knocked down the walls with said magic ship

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

hwat

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

She's a deus-ex Mary Sue if there ever was one

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

First up, she didn't dispel the poison.

#

She froze a gas

unique crag Oct 3, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

just something to we talked back earlier

#

about vindicators

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

she used chemistry HORRORIBLE CHARACTER SHE IS

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

A Mary Sue can’t be a deus ex machine

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

in which case

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

She froze the gas temporarily

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

the PLAGUE is a deus-ex machina in of itself

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

^

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

Didn't say it wasn't

#

Didn't like that either

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

So Jaina was brought in to counter it. A deus-ex machina to counter a deus-ex machina.

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

Can't see why are you trying to argue there for a character that stopped a deus ex

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

Deus ex machina =/= Mary Sue

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

^

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

They aren’t even related

#

A Mary Sue has a boring backstory that could be written by a shitty novelist

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:47 PM

#

Now granted that Mary Sue's also describe characters that are powerful and beloved for no reason.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:47 PM

#

Jainas backstory is closer to Shakespeare, not in quality, but in type

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:47 PM

#

Which also doesn't fit Jaina as a character for she has a lot of build up over multiple different expansions, books, a comic or two, and an animated short.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:47 PM

#

A mary sue is someone who has powers convenient for the plot. IE SUperman back in the "golden age" developing a new super power for every circumstance or Batman haviing shark repellent

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:47 PM

#

and also warcraft 3. that happened too.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:47 PM

#

There’s tragedy, comedie, resolution, impending resolution, internal and external conflict

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

Jaina still doesn't fit that Spiderdad.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

She doesn’t fit that

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

She's a frost mage, she's always been a frost mage.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

She only has two big powers

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

Chemistry dictates you can freeze a gas into a solid.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

Teleport and ice

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

and the books shows she has all the same abilities a PC frost mage would have

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

Actually, she moreso incapsulated the gas within ice

#

Freezing a gas to a solid is very difficult

#

Freezing the water around it is not

#

That’s how permafrost works partially

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

there was no water around the gas. It was simply a gas spread out onto the battlefield that even the Light, a force of the cosmos, couldn't stop

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

She quite literally displayed exactly what I described with that magical ship she showed up with

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

Water is in the air

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

That wasn't a magical ship

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

^

#

She was using arcane magic to float it

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

Did you not watch Warbringers: Jaina?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

The same way dalaran can float

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

Did

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

It’s not a magic city

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

She rose it out of the sea.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

It’s magic cast on the city

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

the same boat she has was the one she floated to Lordaeron.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

It’s magic cast on the boat

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

Yes

#

I know

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

It’s just a normal boat

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

She used magic to float it

#

Sorry THE BOAT ITSELF IS NOT MAGIC ffs

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

She showed up in a cinematic way

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

that's not a new thing in WoW either. Nor is it something Jaina doesn't have access too.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

There’s nothing wrong with cinematic moments

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

So how is it she developed a new power to combat this scenario?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:51 PM

#

And ofc she has been prominent, this expansion is focused on her story

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:51 PM

#

She's become Blizzard's alliance golden child with a lot of story focus on her for 2 expacs as well.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:52 PM

#

The same happened with thrall

#

Focusing on a character is important to make it easier to create a consistent story

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 3:53 PM

#

Hope she doesnt turn into blonde jesus or some shit liek that

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 3:53 PM

#

Horde sort of has a problem on that front since it’s split between several characters

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 3:55 PM

#

She won't become white haired jesus

#

Thrall became jesus cuz Metzen.

strange falcon Oct 3, 2018, 3:58 PM

#

*green jesus

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:00 PM

#

I’m really hoping we just never hear from thrall until his son is an adult in a few expansions

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:00 PM

#

Spider's been typing for a while. can't wait to see it.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:02 PM

#

No need to be condescending Des, it IS possible to have disagreement without it :P

Her showing up with a power she's never shown before, completely dispelling (not in the sense of the actual spell, but in the sense of REMOVING IT from play) the Horde's trap, to then turn said flying ship on it's side by herself and make it blow a hole in Lordaeron's walls, all BY HERSELF, a level of power that hasn't been seen from Jaina in game, in WC3, or in the shorts, feels like Mary Sue/Deus Ex shit and yes while they are 2 different, separate things, they can both apply at the same time. A Mary Sue can have a Deus Ex and a Deus Ex can be the result of a Mary Sue. For simplicity's sake I'll just call it Plot-Armor.

A group of mages causing Dalaran to float, somethign that required an immense amount of power, doesn't mean any mage cna do it on their own even with Jaina not just being "any mage." Her showing up at the precise moment she's needed: deus ex. Her having the perfect powers and abilities for the exact situation at hand, mary-sue

Same shit goes for Sylvanas' plague, even with it being a failsafe she's had installed in Undercity for a long time. It's obnoxious and bad writing

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:02 PM

#

I wasn't 0=

#

I'm excited to see peoples large responses.

#

Legitimately exciting.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:02 PM

#

Then my apologies

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:02 PM

#

Dude, a boat is very small

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:02 PM

#

Now to break apart your argument here.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:02 PM

#

She is one of the strongest mages on azeroth, and even then we see her struggle

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:02 PM

#

Peach if I may

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:02 PM

#

Compared to a city? Sure, but a galleon is most certainly not small

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:03 PM

#

8 mages teleported dalaran

#

For context

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:03 PM

#

It's not, BUT. there are certain elements of Jaina you are absolutely ignoring that has happened to her in the course of 5 expansions, three books, a comic or two and an animated short.

#

So if I may, I have a lot to type and bring up.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:03 PM

#

Yep. Took 8 mages to teleport a whole city and they were exhausted afterwards

#

I'm hardpressed to say whether or not the books count. Canonically sure, but for those of us who haven't read them we only have whats in game and the shorts on youtube

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:04 PM

#

Now first up: Floating a galleon. A galleon that is empty. It does not have its own canons, it does not have other people on board, it is just a large pile of wood and bolts. While a galleon is HUGE and HEAVY, it's significantly lighter when there's several tons of supplies not on it.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:04 PM

#

A galleon is way less than 1/8 the size of a city

#

Waaaaay less

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:05 PM

#

What city? Stormwind or Dalaran? Cause Dalaran isn't that big

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:07 PM

#

Second: Jaina is not your average mage. This can't be stressed enough. Jaina has Antonidas' staff, yes Archmage Antonidas the mage that faced down Arthas and the scourge, shielded the city of dalaran before it fell etc. Every mages staff carries their essence and powers within it as it's their focus. A larger focus means that you get to channel more power and ability through it.

Another thing is that Aegwynn gave Jaina a portion of her power. Aegwynn. The Guardian of Azeroth. Medivh's mother. She has guardian power within her.

A third thing is that she has the remnants of Aman'thul within her staff thanks to the Pandaria campaign against Lei Shen. She absorbed Lei Shen's storm machine essence, which Keeper Ra'den used to store Aman'thul's essence he got from when the Pantheon perished to the Mad Titan and Lei Shen stole.

#

Also Dalaran is A LOT LARGER than you give it credit

#

cuz. everything is shrunk down in WoW itself

#

Now her showing up at the last minute was done more so for cinematic effect and the whole "Second Wind" aspect

#

much like Gandalf coming in at the last moment to Hell's Gate

#

It's meant to be an inspiring moment for the defenders to charge back down.

#

Could it be done better? yea probably.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:10 PM

#

Scale in game is not accurate

#

Dalaran is huge

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:10 PM

#

Blizz has only really started doing this cinematic story telling en mass very recently

#

so it's certainly going to be rough around the edges.

#

Now there is another aspect of all this to focus on: Neither side can win this conflict.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:11 PM

#

Fair enough. It's still a deus ex and like you said could have been done a lot better. There are ways of telling things like that that make them significantly less "plot-armory." I'll retract my claim of her being a mary-sue, I was wrong there. But I standby the Deus ex bit.

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:11 PM

#

Oh absolutely.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:11 PM

#

And Gandalf showing up was the same lol

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:11 PM

#

Indeed it was.

#

It being a deus-ex machina isn't necessarily a bad thing though.

#

and still hold that having tropes, cliche's etc

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:12 PM

#

Personally, I thought the same about Alleria and Mechatorque. They could've implemented it better than just "oh thank god you arrived just in the nick of time!"

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:12 PM

#

aren't bad inherently

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:12 PM

#

No, but they can be handled better

#

IE

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:12 PM

#

just they're bad when handled bad.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:13 PM

#

I'd be less annoyed if, at the release of the plague and Jaina had already been there fighting along side them, Anduin called to her for help. Her showing up with perfect timing made it a DE. Then the same inside Lordaeron if, when they were surrounded and Lorthemar was taunting them, Genn/Anduin shouted "Mechatorque, NOW!" or somethign like that

#

Implementing it as a strategy of a well-prepared Siege makes it more believable and makes it feel less like Blizzard is giving the Alliance plot armor and DE saves

#

Also makes it better writing

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:14 PM

#

Indeed. but as I said, theyve only started doing this indepth scenario writing as their main storytelling very recently.

#

Which was Legion.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:15 PM

#

They had it in WoD and MoP too, didn't they?

#

I seem to recall a few of these in WoD

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:15 PM

#

Not to the size Legion and BFA had.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:15 PM

#

Fair enough

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:15 PM

#

There's a lot more to do in both of these expacs and because of that, there's more workload to get through.

#

So things end up being less refined, is my thinking.

#

Another thing is this: Neither side can win this faction.

#

So the writers are pretty much fucked by all ways.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:16 PM

#

True

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:16 PM

#

How do you write a conflict that neither side can win but make people care about it?

#

Rhetorical is that question, but it makes you wonder.

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:18 PM

#

You make it not about the factions, which people don't seem to like. It would behoove them, in my opinion, to set it up so that the Horde and Alliance are more like America and Britain. Tentative allies that have fought in the past, are willing to fight again, but have a peace with some rogue-exceptions and are separate.

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:18 PM

#

Well that's what we had in Vanilla to Wrath.

#

But now, how do you hold all of that with characters that want to push for all out war no matter what?

#

and as this is only 1 plot point out of WoW's 20 or so, you'd have tp balance it out with everything else.

#

With all of that in sight, I can excuse some of the lighter things like Jaina or Sylvanas' deus ex machinas but will not excuse character assassinations like the Mag'har scenario

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:21 PM

#

Meaning? Are you talking about Yrel going from Paladin to spanish-inquisition zealot?

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:21 PM

#

Hell no that would need more explaining

#

what Im talking about is a bronze dragon willingly helping the horde break their own rules

#

and how Ettrig somehow has a part of Garroshs' hour glass

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:22 PM

#

Oh yeah lol

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:22 PM

#

Also another thing to note is that Yrel in there was trying for peace.

#

but Grom wasn't having it.

#

and with Orcs beign Orcs

#

when they get zealous, they get violent

#

cuz otherwise, I do not think yrel would actively try and kill Durotan.

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:26 PM

#

inb4 garrosh did

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:26 PM

#

Garrosh is an orc

#

so it'd make sense

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:29 PM

#

Seemed the other way around from what I recall. Yrel was being zealous and both were trying for Peace, but Yrel was saying "my way or death" and the orcs didn't want to kowtow or fall in line

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:29 PM

#

Uh no she didn't.

#

O.o

#

Unless the dialogue was changed, Yrel's words to Grom was "Very well. We'll do it your way." after handing him a last chance.

gilded drum Oct 3, 2018, 4:30 PM

#

Is this discussion about the Mag’har recruitment scenario or something else?

leaden garden Oct 3, 2018, 4:30 PM

#

The mood felt that way. And I think blizz was doing that on purpose as a "flip" of the original universe draenor where the fel drove them from draenor

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:30 PM

#

Yrel wanted to bring everyone to the light, possibly because the Prime Naaru that fell down onto Draenor was getting her to, but she was doing it peacefully. until the orcs decided to ya know

#

go insane

#

as orcs do when given godly magic

#

It's a nice flip on Ghoulish Daniel's fel horde going insane and converting orcs into fel orcs

gilded drum Oct 3, 2018, 4:31 PM

#

If y’all are talking about the Mag’har recruitment scenario story, then yeah, Yrel is a bad guy.

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

We just discussed how she wasn't but sure.

gilded drum Oct 3, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

I mean in my opinion she comes across as a bad guy, and I don’t see anything in your discussion that changes my opinion.

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

Alright

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

Did you read the book?

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

enjoy thinking that.

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

Like

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

A small book in that scenario?

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

clearly they hadn't

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:33 PM

#

Because that's where it says how Yrel was doing everything peacefully

gilded drum Oct 3, 2018, 4:33 PM

#

Alright I’ll leave sorry for having an opinion

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:33 PM

#

Until some of the lightbound orcs started forcing

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:33 PM

#

hwat

#

I said enjoy thinking it

#

What's the reason for being so passive aggressive @gilded drum

gilded drum Oct 3, 2018, 4:34 PM

#

I don’t know I just felt like I was trying to bring up my opinion and it got shot down right out of the gate. Also no, I didn’t read the book in the scenario.

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:35 PM

#

I certainly didn't shoot it down

gilded drum Oct 3, 2018, 4:35 PM

#

And I think it’s much more interesting to have Yrel be an overzealous leader forcing people to follow the light, or killing them

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:35 PM

#

I mean.

gilded drum Oct 3, 2018, 4:36 PM

#

Rather than it being “oh look at those orcs! Being evil again!”

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:36 PM

#

It'd be character assassination

#

in the tenth degree

#

Orcs are a savage people. Always are and always will be

gilded drum Oct 3, 2018, 4:36 PM

#

I don’t doubt that

#

And a lot of time passed since we left AU Draenor, shit could have changed.

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:36 PM

#

That shit being the Naaru

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:36 PM

#

It did.

#

A prime naaru landed and created Lightforged draenei leading their own army of the light

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:37 PM

#

Yrel isn't Velen

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:37 PM

#

for what reason we are still unknown for.

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:37 PM

#

She didn't know what Velen told us in Argus about the sides of the light

gilded drum Oct 3, 2018, 4:37 PM

#

Anyways I do actually have to go now, got to drive to work.

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:37 PM

#

Like, she is unaware that Light can be used for evil things

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:37 PM

#

but all of that doesn't mean Yrel is suddenly going to be happy to go commit genocide

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:38 PM

#

Des you got this story wrong

#

The reason the orcs are resisting is because Yrel is forcibly converting them

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:38 PM

#

So then did they change the dialogue or not?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:38 PM

#

She said join me, they said no thanks

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:38 PM

#

cuz I asked that a lot of times

#

and no ones ever fucking answered it

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:38 PM

#

The part where she says we will do it your way is at the end of the scenario

#

She says they can join willingly, or be forced

#

So the maghar flee with us

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:39 PM

#

alright great it's character assassination.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:39 PM

#

No

#

It’s actually explained decently

#

Let me explain

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:39 PM

#

So suddenly she's OK with doing what the Iron Horde AND Legion did

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:39 PM

#

It’s Draenei are trapped on draenor

#

The legion is gone

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:40 PM

#

How is that explained

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:40 PM

#

They begin to rebuild with the orcs

#

Everything is going well

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:40 PM

#

How are they trapped

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:40 PM

#

let him talk

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:40 PM

#

But one day Yrel goes to talk with the naaru and they tell her something different - the orcs are inherently bad and need to be converted or they will eat away at draenor until it dies along with the Draenei

#

This isn’t completely wrong

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:41 PM

#

so no prime naaru crash landed onto Draenor?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:41 PM

#

The resources of gorgrond have been heavily stripped

#

No

#

Lemme finish ok?

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:41 PM

#

OK SO the answer to my question was Yes. they did change up a lot of stuff

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:41 PM

#

I’m only about forty percent don’t

#

Done

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:41 PM

#

What part of let him finish can't you understand

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:42 PM

#

So Yrel begins offering orcs a path to the light - join us so that the world can be saved

#

Some orcs join, but part of lightforging means they aren’t quite themselves anymore

#

Orcs like their individuality, and this scares them

#

They begin to refuse, and at this point, Yrel becomes similar to turalyon

#

She sees only one future - the one presented by the light

#

There is no other path

#

She is told to convert them by force if necessary to save the light and the world

#

Ofc the light only sees a future of complete order, so while it might not actually be accurate, she is convinced into believing this is the only way

#

As she coverts the orcs by force, the clans join together to try and save themselves

#

The Draenei continue to slowly pick them off

#

By the time we arrive, all of the remaining unconverted orcs are in gorgrond

#

Draining all of its resources to defend themselves, thus affirming the visions of the naaru that Yrel has been receiving

#

These are savages who will destroy the world to save themselves, they are dangerous

#

Again, like with turalyon, it’s partially correct

#

But the light makes her believe that it’s fully correct

#

It pushes her to make, unfortunately, bad decisions

#

This is where we arrive

#

There is a final stand

#

Yrel offers a choice

#

Join us by choice, by force, or die resisting

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:46 PM

#

I already had my question answered. that yes. they changed a lot from the beta we datamined out.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

Gromm lantressor and a few others stay behind in order to defend the rest as they flee with us

#

This is exactly the same as what was datamined

#

Nothing changed

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

No?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

We just didn’t know the order

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

Beta datamined that the HONORBOUND did the converting after yrel PEACEFULLY converted some orcs

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

Oh

#

Then yes

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

and that they killed Durotan up in Frostfire Ridge

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

Totally changed

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

ALL without implementing Yrel

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:47 PM

#

They did do that I think

#

Oh

#

Then yes, it was definitely changed

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:48 PM

#

They never once said Yrel did any of this

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:48 PM

#

Lightbound did bad things

#

Yrel led them

#

Because she was lightforged and brainwashed by a naaru

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:48 PM

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And it was unknown if she was against this, but it had already happened so what the hell is she going to do about it, and just went forward with it

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but I guess they tossed out all the potential complexity and just said "Yea no she's just OK with genocide now."

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:49 PM

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The point of the scenario is mainly further emphasizing that pure order is just as bad as pure chaos

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She isn’t genociding

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She doesn’t kill them

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Most of the orcs are captured and converted to lightbound

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For all we know that might be grommashs fate

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:49 PM

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Cultural genocide then

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regardles

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:50 PM

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Yes

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Because she was brainwashed

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:50 PM

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she's OK with doing what the Iron Horde and Legion did

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:50 PM

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By a being that is so good it’s evil

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:50 PM

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and she just ignores it

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:50 PM

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She doesn’t see it

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:50 PM

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cuz plot needs her to

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:50 PM

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She is brainwashed

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:50 PM

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Leading up she's brainwashed all the way through?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:50 PM

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The naaru make her believe she is doing the right thing

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Yes

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:50 PM

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just first time she's brainwashed and no longer yrel

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:50 PM

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When she is lightforged she is brainwashed

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:51 PM

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Naaru just decided one day to brain wash yrel

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and force her into going out

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:51 PM

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She was a good ally until she was lightforged

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Yes

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The naaru are the true bad Guys in the scenario

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It’s the same thing we saw with illidan and argus

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And xera

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The naaru are beings of order

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Pure order means no free will

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No choice

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No differences

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Pure order is equally evil when compared to pure chaos

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:52 PM

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Well, it doesnt help that in that universe there isn't chaos anymore as the Legion got defeated, or well, at least in argus

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draenor*

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:52 PM

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Both states of being are untenable

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Exactly

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That’s the point makore

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:52 PM

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it's defeated everywhere Mak

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:52 PM

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No chaos means order is outweighing chaos

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:52 PM

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Legion is in all timelines

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so there's no legion to fight in the Alternate Universe that draenor sits in

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:52 PM

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^

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:52 PM

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I was talking about other risks out there like void

meager warren Oct 3, 2018, 4:52 PM

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Is blizzard taking some inspiration from The Shivering isles expansion of Oblivion?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:53 PM

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The naaru want to order the universe

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:53 PM

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Because it seems that all is light with no void

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:53 PM

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void still exists

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:53 PM

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There is no void on alternate draenor because it exists in a bubble

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:53 PM

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but there's no void presence on Draenor

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:53 PM

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It could get there theoretically

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:53 PM

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again peach Blizz did say there's an AU azeroth

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:53 PM

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I know

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:53 PM

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the void was there

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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It exists

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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when we went there.

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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But seems to be separated somehow

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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But it isn’t attached to draenor

manic horizon Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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There was with the Shadowmoon Orcs.

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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it's the one paired with Draenor

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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Alt draenor was kind of moved into a bubble

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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the orcs on AU draenor were to invade AU Azeroth.

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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Because the artifact paired it to our azeroth

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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So basically it made a time bubble just for us?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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Kind of

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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Like "borrowed" AU draenor?

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:54 PM

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Yes

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That’s a better term

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It’s borrowed

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:55 PM

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so now

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you said the draenei are trapped there

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:55 PM

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It went back when we closed t

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:55 PM

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How?

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Our Draenor had a fully functional Naaru ship in one of its mountains

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:55 PM

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I suppose we were the anchors

dense plover Oct 3, 2018, 4:55 PM

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They might not be trapped

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I think I misspoke

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I more so meant that they aren’t going to leave until they bring order to draenor as the naaru directed

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I misspoke and I apologize for that

hollow dock Oct 3, 2018, 4:56 PM

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Which was another thing changed from the beta. Cuz a prime was supposed to have landed and that's what started up the whole "We have to get the band back together." thing.

zealous basalt Oct 3, 2018, 4:56 PM

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First Draenor