if it wasn't a greater
#beta-ptr-spoilers
tulip sun
So three are left; two unnamed?
tulip sun
One of the three are in Zuldazar
zealous basalt
Do you think they will continue the stories left from the isle expedition thingies?
hollow dock
Maybe
heavy cairn
ye
zealous basalt
The hydraxis part
hollow dock
as side small stories
tulip sun
I mean, I am guessing they used that to set up future storylines to delve into
hollow dock
prolly just more text
zealous basalt
slams hands I need more
hollow dock
to bad
zealous basalt
Okay you want to tone down that
tulip sun
PLACEHOLDER - Cutscene of Derek Proudmoore being revived, Baine getting angry about it.
zealous basalt
OH BOY
strange falcon
there is a forsaken derek model
tulip sun
"The bravery, and sacrifice, of people like Blademaster Telaamon will not be forgotten by the Alliance."
zealous basalt
Well, he was a man of few words
hollow dock
who was?
hollow dock
Oh. The guy who was saying all of Chirrut's lines from Rogue One?
hollow dock
Oh wow.
tulip sun
Copy the link and quote
hollow dock
what a shocker
tulip sun
SO he can see it
zealous basalt
Nah
He needs to stop being a brat and learn to live with all the people here
Getting tired of your bs boi
hollow dock
I do live with the people here
zealous basalt
"The bravery, and sacrifice, of people like Blademaster Telaamon will not be forgotten by the Alliance."
hollow dock
But use the mechanics of Discord to avoid starting fights with those I keep fighting with
zealous basalt
It's called being mature
Even if I want to send hammers towards everyone I know how to control myself
Well
Everyone but porter
Port is a good boy
You should all learn from him
strange falcon
i didnt know makore was a paladin
tulip sun
Poor Telaamon
zealous basalt
Now that's being classist
zealous basalt
I prefered when it threw your damn weapon
hollow dock
like ravager does
zealous basalt
But ye
Rest in pasta draenei
Another innocent victim from the Filthy horde
And
hollow dock
rest in peperoni's WoW Chirrut
hollow dock
he better go out like hedid
tulip sun
All cause Tyrande's stupid plan
zealous basalt
:B:ias
tulip sun
A draenei has to die e.e
zealous basalt
Draenei X Tyrande cuntfirmed
tulip sun
Draenei, Worgen and Night Elves it seems are mainly helping her
and it causes a general to die
Poor draenei
hollow dock
Tyrande's stupid plan
zealous basalt
Seems like
hollow dock
it's her 'stupid' plan that gets Darkshore back into contestion
zealous basalt
Stupid plan for the horde
Come on vris
But you know
Seems like a shitty way to go
tulip sun
Wait
zealous basalt
Rather than killing one super demon
hollow dock
How is liberation of invaded lands a stupid way to go?
tulip sun
Did you unmute me or something? o.o
zealous basalt
He gets rekt by Horde
hollow dock
that's a hero's death full and full
zealous basalt
BOI WHEN WILL YOU LEARN TO BE PATIENT
hollow dock
He still goes out as he always was. Fighting an army with nothing but his sword.
tulip sun
I like how GEnn is remaining loyal and aiding the Kal'dorei, no matter what.
hollow dock
It'd be really hypocritcal of Genn to not do it
zealous basalt
Debts are mean to be paid
tulip sun
it seems mainly Draenei, Worgen and Night Elves in Darkshore.
hollow dock
and genn's not much of a hypocrit
grave fog
What I do get is once the horde finds out about sylvannas why don’t we kill her
hollow dock
Because she's warchief
tulip sun
That wouldn't really, help anything.
zealous basalt
And because plot
hollow dock
and made his own horde
zealous basalt
Nahx she is loyal to Horde
grave fog
And she isn’t that powerful
zealous basalt
Because
hollow dock
She has three lives still.
hollow dock
She's a banshee, has most of the forsaken and the general horde believing in her
grave fog
Eh our character can kill her three times
hollow dock
she's manipulated herself into a perfect web.
tulip sun
So ya.
zealous basalt
Like, we are the 1% of Horde that dont believe her
hollow dock
^
tulip sun
It defiantly seems like Maiev and Sira are warfront commanders.
zealous basalt
And 99% of the Horde are entirely loyal/blind
hollow dock
this is the first piece of evidence that you all as horde champions see that Sylvanas is actually corrupt
tulip sun
and with Telaamon appearing, I would wager a Lightforged or Draenei commander
for alliance
hollow dock
and even then
grave fog
I am pretty sure the orcs and taurens and blood elf’s would vote against her
uncut vault
Khamnin, you’ve done it a lot, I think the word you mean is definitely
zealous basalt
CROWLEY
hollow dock
it's technically well within her right
uncut vault
Defiantly is very different
hollow dock
to order Saurfang's death
cuz he did disobey the warchief
and that's an act of treason worthy of death
zealous basalt
But zappyboy
tulip sun
-don't hate my spelling-
uncut vault
And is conspiring with Anduin, according to Lyana
hollow dock
cuz the warchief is the horde and the horde serves the warchief.
zealous basalt
So he got released from Prison?
royal orchid
There seems to be some new spell effects on ptr. My Paladin got a whole new animation for Avenging Wrath
zealous basalt
Talk about 🅱 ias
hollow dock
Yup
uncut vault
Like, on the surface this is another dagger in the dark, but it really doesn’t paint saurfang in a very good light
hollow dock
It's almost like
hollow dock
Saurfang's trying to cause a revolution
zealous basalt
He would get rekt instantly
hollow dock
to remove sylvanas from warchief
zealous basalt
And put the orcs into depression
hollow dock
and restore the horde back to thrall's glory
meager warren
Wdym he'd get rekt
tulip sun
Lor'themar and Liadrin text...
It seems they take us on a walk and speak about the scourge invasion
tulip sun
Probably involving heritage armor
zealous basalt
SHARE
tulip sun
zealous basalt
Oof
Where is malfurion
I honestly like how Tyrande gets like
All enraged and being like "I wont be ur servant anymore unless you give me something to purify the filth of the horde"
tranquil steeple
Knaifu stuff let'sgo
zealous basalt
Not Horde
strange falcon
POGCHAMP
hollow dock
guys
GUYS
This blade is more than a dagger. It is a torch that shall light our path forward.
tulip sun
"Captain Madison! Shall we keep those ships busy while $p stops their sapper teams?
Aye, Lord Admiral! The Outriggers never back down from a good hunt.
Glad to hear it! What's the status of the weapon emplacements on the battlements?
Between the zeppelins and the ships we were taking too much fire so I pulled my people back. But if they could get there quickly we could lay into those ships with harpoons.
I can help with that, Captain. Hold on!
Let us strike as one.
No. Wait for my signal before you attack.
Take Blightcaller. The val'kyr are mine."
hollow dock
five keys to open the way, five torches to light our path.
It's five old god relics, not the titan artifacts
uncut vault
I’m happy the “world trees are the torches” theory is dead
heavy cairn
five keys still could be titan
five torches are old god
opening the way is different from lighting the path
tulip sun
No clue
hollow dock
three. that's three now.
uncut vault
Ghanir via the dream/Nightmare
hollow dock
The keys are the Pillars of creation, but the torches might be the old god touched artifacts from legion.
that's 4.
zealous basalt
And the fifth
dense plover
I hope he breaks free and this shit goes crazy
zealous basalt
Which other artifact do we find in tyrs tomb
tulip sun
I love this text for belves
It seems we get to witness what Liadrin and Lor'themar did during the invasion
zealous basalt
No
uncut vault
Tyrs tomb was spriest, arms, and hpally, then ghanir via the void flower, fifth could be scale
heavy cairn
neltharion's scale was pre-old god corruption
uncut vault
It just came out physically in war of the ancients
tulip sun
Sylvanas
tulip sun
"Thank you for coming, $n. Zuldazar is still reeling from de Alliance attack. De faith of my people has been shaken... as has my own.
I too know the pain of losing a father. If there is anything I can do, please do not hesitate to ask.
You have seen firsthand the treachery of the Alliance. Let your grief be sated by vengeance against them.
This is not the time to speak of revenge, Blightcaller!
Enough! The warchief has arrived.
My condolences on your loss, princess. Excuse me... Queen Talanji.
Titles mean little to me now. I must know... with the Zandalari navy in ruins, does the Horde intend to abandon us?
We do not turn our back on our allies, Talanji. The war campaign has taken an unfortunate turn, to be certain... but our cause is not lost.
My queen... reports are coming in from all outposts. The Alliance is tightening its grip. Victory is within their grasp.
Perhaps we can open negotiations--
The Alliance slays the leader of the Zandalari, and you speak of negotiations?
No. This war will not end until we stand victorious. Until the Little Lion kneels before my throne.
Come to the Banshee's Wail. I have a plan to ensure the Proudmoore family pays dearly for Rastakhan's death."
tulip sun
Sylvanas seems almost likable in this portion of the text.
jade basalt
Neltharion wasn't corrupted "since" he became an Aspect, it took a lot of time to corrupt him, but since he spent his time under the mountains and the earth, this is what made him more vulnerable to the Old Gods apparently.
hollow dock
Do we know when the scale was made into a shield?
jade basalt
It became a shield before Neltharion was corrupted.
heavy cairn
I am still thinking there's a fifth old god, don't really believe chronicle to be more immune to retcons than anything else in the game
zealous basalt
pat
tulip sun
Hm..
jade basalt
Technically Chronicle never said there was "only" 4 Old Gods. But when I say "Oh you'd love my brothers, John is a physicist and Harry is a teacher, you'd love them!" it.. heavily implies "my brothers" is only = to "John and Harry"
Not that there's a secret unmentioned brother called Bob
tulip sun
Perhaps this text leads into that invasion we know happens
we have text of the kul tirans scrambling to defend
zealous basalt
And after that
Kt and Zt go to their factions
I buy it
So we gonna have a 8.1.5?
heavy cairn
despite what people say I've never been able to find in chronicle where it says there are only 4 on azeroth. it mentions that four landed on the largest continent (kalimdor, when it was whole) and shows where they are, but each time I read over that chapter I was unable to dismiss the possibility of another landmass that a fifth may have landed on.
jade basalt
8.1.5 is going to be the Crucible of Storms raid.
hollow dock
4 landed on Azeroth.
one was made after this.
There is no mentions of any old gods landing prior or after this
heavy cairn
G'huun is artificial, not going to count him in because we're talking about old god artifacts
don't think he really played much of a part in anything
zealous basalt
How do gods land?
jade basalt
@heavy cairn My sentence was missing a word, I meant to say "Chronicle never said there was "only" 4 Old Gods", not "Chronicle said".
jade basalt
But it's still heavily implied.
tulip sun
MMO Champ has more text
zealous basalt
Oh, like Leviathans in MP
hollow dock
Yea
heavy cairn
heavily implied indeed, but the wording only states 4 land on largest continent (i.e. Kalimdor)
IIRC
tulip sun
"You will not live to see the sunrise.
How uncouth, your majesty. Who taught you your manners?
I am no queen. I am the kaldorei's vengeance.
You are nothing! Raise them.
Rise! In the name of Sylvanas, the Banshee Queen, I bestow this gift upon you!
"
zealous basalt
I blame you
tulip sun
"You are too late. Behold!
You must fight the shadow in your hearts, sisters!
We placed our faith in you.
And you abandoned us. Elune abandoned us!
We have nothing left. We are forsaken."
heavy cairn
it doesn't say the total number that landed on Azeroth
zealous basalt
Thsts sira
hollow dock
Indeed akr. Only 4.
tulip sun
Eh
hollow dock
that's sira and delaryn Kham
zealous basalt
The last part
hollow dock
It only makes privy that 4 landed
Old Gods are not natural
they need to be created
zealous basalt
What now
hollow dock
As we see that Old Gods exist in mulitple sizes and flavors
even 'minor' ones are still considered old gods
tulip sun
"The treasury is heavily protected, but Magister Umbric and I have worked out how to get the team in without raising an alarm.
We can call upon the Void to conceal the magic Lady Jaina will use to open the portal. We believe we have eliminated any potential... side effects.
Well, as long as I don't need to worry about shadowy tentacles being rude, I'm fine with a bit of experimental magic.
This is a serious mission, Fairwind.
I am being serious. Nothing with tentacles has ever been polite to me.
While our primary target is the Abyssal Scepter, High Tinker Mekkatorque has also given us a secondary objective.
We hope you can gather information on the pyramid to support a future assault. Mekkatorque has provided you with a Gnomish Positioning Gizmo, or G.P.G., to take readings.
Captain Fairwind--
Magister, I think we're ready to start.
Give me a moment to shroud our actions from their wards... I have it.
I have to find the path through.... Get ready... There it is. Go and good luck!"
hollow dock
The context is very very important in sitautions like this
hollow dock
taking into full account, while it's not 100% absolutely proven, there's enough evidence for it that it greatly outweighs anything against it
zealous basalt
Flynn you nasty boy
heavy cairn
we hardly know anything about the black empire
hollow dock
That is very true. We know very little of it.
However, we do know it didn't exist on Azeroth prior to the old gods landing
heavy cairn
and we know nothing about continents / islands not derived from pangea-kalimdor
(and that's where all 4 known space old gods landed)
hollow dock
We also do know from Blizzard that the largest continent is Kalmindor, and that spans most of the planet. While the titans have never documented the other side of Azeroth, they did track all the old god activity on the planet
zealous basalt
What do you mean
hollow dock
as seen with their orbital facilities
tulip sun
"Our scouts have spotted Alliance forces marching through Nazmir. Dey have taken de Blood Gate!
Dey mean to establish a staging ground for an assault on Zuldazar. No doubt de Kul Tiran fleet is positioned off de coast.
Dere, to de west of de Necropolis. Dat shore would make an ideal location to land a large fleet.
Our forces have come to know the wilds of Nazmir. We can rout the Alliance, so long as we fight together with the Zandalari.
Agreed. We must coordinate a unified strike on all fronts. Talanji, lend your aid at the Blood Gate while we prepare our armies.
I will rally the Horde's forces. This is our chance to end this war... on our terms.
We will fight as one on the battlefield. Your people have been valuable allies, King Rastakhan. We will not let them stand alone.
$n, we need you to mobilize our forces while I head to de Blood Gate.
What were de Alliance thinking, trying to attack us through Nazmir? It is a desperate move.
Dis fog... it be even worse in Nazmir. De Alliance must be trying to hide de location of dere main fleet!
A foolish move, we already know dey be off Nazmir's coach. It only be a matter of reaching dem.
At de very least, de Alliance wiped out many blood trolls in dere assault.
The southern gate has been breached!
Face me, cowards! Boralus stands strong!
Explain yourselves. We have two armies sitting around instead of attacking de Alliance.
We cannot fly through dis fog, we've already suffered some casualties. De Alliance are tryin' to delay our attack!
And the Alliance dogs have the area trapped. We cannot march our army through here.
We got a way to solve all of this, Princess. The A.F.M.O.D! ... but the Alliance roughed it up and stole a bunch of its parts.
But if you can rescue my crew and get the parts back, I can have this thing fixed in no time to take back our stuff!
Where is the G.M.O.D?
... Yeah, well, turns out the Alliance totaled the thing and took a bunch of its parts. And the Gob Squad!"
jade basalt
@heavy cairn Nah it does not say "4 landed on Kalimdor", it just says "They slammed into Azeroth's surface, embedding themselves in different locations across the world." and then says that the greatest bastion was built around Y'Shaarj. The next time they are mentioned is when the titans arrive, and the titan-forged armies one by one imprison the Old Gods in that order : Y'Shaarj > N'Zoth > C'Thun > Yogg-Saron.
So if there was a fifth, it would've had to have been killed by the others before the titans came. Even then, it's still just really weird to do this.
zealous basalt
Gmod
tulip sun
But poor gob squad
hollow dock
So the theory that Xal was an old god could be correct, but there's very little evidence to actually support it.
Could just as easily say she was a void lord at one point.
heavy cairn
hmm, what if a fifth old god simply landed in the ocean and drowned?
zealous basalt
Hah
hollow dock
That'd be very hard to do
considering N'zoth is depicted as the one that's underwater and he's fine
there's also the fact that most of the old gods themselves are underground
not the specs of flesh we fight
And don't forget that they survive the trips through space
zealous basalt
How 2 really kill an old god?
heavy cairn
fine, but what would he do in the middle of the forbidding/veiled sea?
nothing's there lol
hollow dock
Doesn't matter if theres nothing there
zealous basalt
That we know
hollow dock
their plan isn't to corrupt the planet
it's to corrupt the core
If they can get ont he solid ground, that's what matters.
jade basalt
Xal'atath's actual lore suggests two theories.
- she's the remnant of an Old God (that was turned into a dagger, so maybe a tooth or claw or something)
- she used to be an Old God herself, but was consumed by the others
Now, she has an artifact skin themed after N'Zoth (Claw of N'Zoth) so the base/normal skin can't be (related to) N'Zoth. She also has a quote backing up the second theory (something about her "brothers" turning on her, something like that). However she is also named similarly as Xal'atoh, Garrosh's weapon made from Y'Shaarj's essence, which backs up the first theory.
I would personally prefer if she was a claw of Y'Shaarj : Chronicle mentions his remains fell back on Azeroth in what became Pandaria, and his heart was found and locked up by the titan-forged. Maybe they missed a few other parts, and notably one that would become this black dagger. But yeah it's also suggested she's an Old God herself entirely.
heavy cairn
but if an old god is embedded at the bottom of the ocean, would those orbital things see him?
zealous basalt
What orbital things
hollow dock
Yes. They certianly would
jade basalt
And we would most likely be aware if there had been a completely free Old God since the dawn of time on Azeroth.
hollow dock
As seen with the other titan facilities, they are able to scan for break outs. they know the old god signatures.
and with orbital platforms around Azeroth, more than likely they know what's in the full planet and only focus on where the old gods are
heavy cairn
in the middle of the ocean, there's not much to corrupt; the only thing they could scan for is core corruption
heavy cairn
ik
hollow dock
And since Azeroth herself isn't corrupt
see Azerite
we can infer that there isn't an old god running around free
yet
heavy cairn
alright
sudden oak
with the other quotes that show that Sira is a warfront commander there is no way she dies
tulip sun
Perhaps in this warfront we can kill the commanders(obviously not canonicly)
terse patrol
I heard Sira pocket-sands us to escape
hollow dock
We kill the warfront commander in our current one Kham
hollow dock
they fall dead.
tulip sun
I have yet to do one
tulip sun
Hm. well. Then she must escape somehow
terse patrol
Warfront commanders do not die. That'd be stupid.
hollow dock
in game they do
but its not canon
sot hey can do whatever the hell they want in the warfront itself
tulip sun
I kinda like the idea of Delaryn and Sira being new forsaken characters. I like unique characters like that
hollow dock
its not unique
tulip sun
I want Lothraxion and some other unique ones to show up mre.
hollow dock
its just more spitting in the alliance face
Know what'd be unique?
A forsaken orc.
or tauren
the races you don't see undead often
tulip sun
That would be interesting
But they are already Horde
So not really unique in that aspect.
hollow dock
you have the nightborne
stop stealing the alliance shit
if you won't have the alliance have horde shit
tulip sun
There is nothing wrong with alliance having horde shit e.e
zealous basalt
Well
tulip sun
But rezzing undead is kinda their thing
I just like how diverse the forsaken have become.
zealous basalt
Technically Thalassian elves are rightfully part of the Alliance
tulip sun
I like seeing different types of troops
zealous basalt
So
coughs
You know
What could be unique and cruel?
Undead children from all the races
sudden pollen
Druid possibly.
zealous basalt
That is doing a really bad job as monking
sudden pollen
Communing instead of meditating
zealous basalt
Going back to Ulduar it seems
zealous basalt
And besides
uncut vault
sounds a bit like the maghar voiceover
zealous basalt
She would be a bad monk not able to control herself
hollow dock
Yup the damage buffs are coming in
Elemental nearly gets a full 15% increase to their damage
Fury got nothing tho. made me sad.
uncut vault
yah, pretty sure theyre better than arms on some fights now
hollow dock
I mean
prior they always beat out arms
cuz arms in the long run always ran out of fury
tulip sun
Don't need to change it
uncut vault
they did it the opposite way, allied races are referred to as their general moniker in game
zealous basalt
Bias
uncut vault
dark iron as dwarves, lightforged as draenei
zealous basalt
Oh so they shorted it?
tulip sun
Forest Troll....then Troll would be weird
uncut vault
Is there something up with the PTR for Dx11?
oh, PTR is defaulting to Dx12, thats why
zealous basalt
Is it?
heavy cairn
Ingame, you are called "orc" by an NPC if you are a Mag'har Orc
in normal conversation
heavy cairn
but there is clearly a different race variable that uses the full name, twice during Mount Hyjal I was called "Mag'har Orc", but all other times "orc"
tulip sun
Generalize or specify, lol.
zealous basalt
My character specifies with elves :p
Generalized as Knife ears
And mana chuggers
And blueberries or cucumbers if they are void elves
heavy cairn
an interesting note is that during lorewalker cho ancestors quest in jade forest, for a mag'har orc, he says the placeholder thing he always does for allied races, but additionally says the thing for orc. still shows placeholder pitch black humans walking around.
zealous basalt
Yeah
meager warren
Humans to Idiot Humans
heavy cairn
I don't think he says the thing for orc to everything tho
he said I came from a different world, great warriors, something like that
(same thing as he says to Green Orcs)
heavy cairn
he says something generic for every other allied race
uncut vault
what do you mean?
strange falcon
maybe he wants to see what classes they have?
uncut vault
not in yet
zealous basalt
Dang bananas
midnight bloom
I'm not happy the with the story revovling around Sira
sudden oak
she hates maiev to no end and becoming undead makes her even more resentful towards her
and she gets an army to kill her
midnight bloom
I think the reasoning is flimsy tbh
Also
Lets kill every hero character we ever liked Blizz - thanks
sudden oak
cordana changed sides just because of power
midnight bloom
True!
sudden oak
yeah because horde characters dont get killed every 2 seconds
hollow dock
they don't.
they either leave the horde first
or were never apart of the horde in the first place
midnight bloom
*See Thrall and his wife
zealous basalt
And kiddo
midnight bloom
And the Blood Elf leaders
Can't kill off all the Blood Elf or Sylvanas! That'd hurt sales
Everyone loves their blonde, orange eyed elves
tulip sun
Screen shots
midnight bloom
I can't get my PTR to work
sudden oak
and the dark ranger next to lillian
midnight bloom
Gives me no option Porter
meager warren
rip lillian voss
tulip sun
The dark ranger is probably Lyana
uncut vault
Dedicated Embalmers
tulip sun
The one who dies later
sudden oak
why rip lillian?
sudden oak
^
tulip sun
Die
uncut vault
seems she survived the warden towers
meager warren
because lillian voss is fighting for the horde now
when she was against it since her inception
sudden oak
she was never against fighting for the horde???
tranquil steeple
I thought the only thing Lillian was against was... Undead. Not the Horde, not the Alliance, but the Undead
sudden oak
she had her own stuff to settle like killing the scarlet crusade and scourge necromancer
tranquil steeple
Yeah but initially, atleast
tulip sun
Now she is aiding those she knows will inevitably be raosed
sudden oak
then she went neutral with the order hall stuff
tulip sun
Because it is fight or die?
sudden oak
mainly because she got conscripted?
tulip sun
And that
jade basalt
She was against all necromancers, that included Sylvanas
meager warren
what quiet said
tulip sun
Many to choose from
uncut vault
its a ptr bug but damn
tranquil steeple
Ask Blizzard, or go to her as a Horde character and talk to her
uncut vault
the white warhorse is nice
meager warren
blizzard would give me a half-assed excuse
meager warren
and lillian wouldn't be lillian anymore
sudden oak
she is very much lillian
meager warren
not as much lillian
sudden oak
she is still 100% lillian
meager warren
since she's fighting for someone who is against everything she stands for
jade basalt
And there's a difference between helping some Forsaken get better and say stuff like 'The Forsaken are my family' and saying Sylvanas is good and understanding and being okay with killing and raising folks just before killing them right after, while watching Nathanos do this.
meager warren
^
sudden oak
she never said that Sylvanas was good
zealous basalt
A bug?
sudden oak
and she is still goddamn conscripted
jade basalt
She did, she says her word is true and whatever.
Lilian in the past :
Hates necromancers, despises people raising the undead
Lilian now :
Instead of fighting against Sylvanas who does literally only that since the beginning of BFA to now, helps Nathanos kill and raise people.
The saving light is that she has secret dialogue for Rogue players implying she is being forced to, like Garona. It's possible all her dialogue is a play and not truly meant. But still, if we're talking about the behavior alone, it's not Lilian-like at all, literally the opposite. But that's because she is being forced.
midnight bloom
If Sylvanas doesnt die by the end of this expansion I'm dropping it
uncut vault
bye then
midnight bloom
Ahahaha
jade basalt
Sylvanas is going to get Kerrigan-ed.
midnight bloom
Pls no
uncut vault
Damn, PTR is insta crashing again
sudden oak
the first time you speak with her she tells you she is conscripted
uncut vault
thats garona
Lilian is there willingly, Voss is there to observe Sylvanas and her people's actions
and help those raised as best she can to adjust
meager warren
sudden oak
We need to show the Kul Tirans what it means to make an enemy of the Horde.
Gossip You seem to have embraced the Horde.
It seems my skills drew the attention of the powers that be. My servises were... "requested."
Did you catch the hidden meaning there? Sorry. Despite my profession, I'm not the best at subtlety.
Regardless, I know how to recognize an opportunity when I see one.
Gossip What sort of opportunity?
It doesn't take a prophet to see that Sylvanas will use this war as a means of bringing more Forsaken into the world.
My own conversion was... difficult. I had a lot to work through. Many scores to settle.
I haven't let go of all that. But I also feel an obligation to help the newly risen adapt to their situation. Perhaps I can spare them the sort of pain I endured.
Gossip And what of the Alliance?
In life, I was raised to hate the undead. Trained to destroy them.
When I became Forsaken, I hated myself most of all.
But now I see it is the Alliance that fosters this malice. The human kingdoms shun their former brothers and sisters because we remind them what's lurking beneath the facade of flesh.
It's time to end their cycle of hatred. The Alliance deserves to fall.
and how is it wrong?
meager warren
The Alliance mostly just wants peace.
Genn is the worst of the Alliance and even he has barely done anything to match even a fraction of what Sylvanas has done
uncut vault
it isnt out of line with Lilian's story, she very much experiences humans shunning her just for existing
she more than most can sympathize with it, her own father tried to kill her for it
meager warren
but the only reason they shun her and others is because the forsaken are shits
sudden oak
that doesnt mean 90% of the human population doesnt hate them just for what they are
which they do
meager warren
uh no
sudden oak
uh yes
meager warren
a minority of them hate her, realistically.
if a majority hate her, that is bad writing
but now they have reason to hate her since she's fighting against them and for a fucking tyrant
uncut vault
so anyone in zandalar/kul tiras cant log in
zealous basalt
God damn it brozzard
stiff vector
jade basalt
Lilian's dialogue here is for Horde players
But she also has dialogue for Horde players who are Rogues
And thus part of the Uncrowned
jade basalt
Suggesting that like Garona she's being kind of forced to do this. So what she says to the non-rogue player is lies and 4thehorde crap.
uncut vault
I think Lilian and Garona are both in a place where its half lies, half their own feelings
theyre sucking up to nathanos to keep on his good side
but some of the stuff, like wanting to soothe newly risen undead, and the "vengeance fuels you! I can appreciate that!" are genuine
tulip sun
"
Please... help me. I... I don't know what's happened. What's been done to me.
I remember the battle. Orcish dragon riders. Our decks consumed by flame. I felt a blaze of agony, and then... darkness.
I was... dead, wasn't I? For how long? I am not quite alive, and yet... I don't understand this. Please... PLEASE... how is this possible?
Where is my father? My mother? Jaina... Tandred... please... I'm so alone. Don't leave me alone...
This is wrong. There is no honor in it.
Her deeds disgrace us all. We must set things right... before the Horde loses everything that made us strong."
meager warren
@uncut vault maybe you should replay the undead starting area and every other zone in which lillian plays a part.
then play bfa and notice the difference
tulip sun
Rexxar seems to be a prisoner of war
"We've been huntin' for this one. A prize indeed!
Officer! This is the infamous Horde criminal Rexxar. He belongs in the deepest, darkest corner of this dungeon!
Taking this a bit far, are you not?
Watch that jawin' back there, prisoner!
We'll take ya to the brig. You're on your own from there.
Maybe afterwards, we'll give ya a proper tour. It's a lovely place!"
meager warren
oof
uncut vault
so, war campaign testing is stalled
clearly there to be tested
but ptr accounts azerite unlock gets removed
and the uncharted island map crashes you
so you cant test
tulip sun
Hm...
zealous basalt
Oof
tulip sun
This text is interesting indeed
sudden oak
lillian was traumatized when she became undead and she killed her father for trying to execute her and swore to wipe out the scarlet crusade and the scourge
zealous basalt
I blame you kahm
sudden oak
now she is trying to help other forsaken from suffering like her
meanwhile she is attacking humans that foster the same hatred for undeads as the scarlet crusade
tulip sun
Blame me? xD
hybrid kettle
meager warren
@sudden oak she can do that without fighting for someone who's everything that lillian is against
sudden oak
1 no she can't fight the Kul'tirans if she isn't with the horde 2 she is still consprited 3 how is she going to help the forsaken that the horde is resurrecting if she isn't with the horde
The "" in requested are there for a reason
meager warren
- why do the kul'tirans hate the forsaken?
- what does that have anything to do with this
- by not helping sylvanas indirectly?
sudden oak
Because 90% of human population hates undead from just tales of the scourge?
meager warren
80% of the human population are smart enough to realize they're clearly different from the scourge
and that the problem is sylvanas, not the forsaken
if a majority hates them for no reason, that's bad writing
sudden oak
If she is conscripted it's not like she can easily refuse just like with garona
meager warren
that has happened a lot in the past?
a lot of former soldiers of the forsaken and the horde have refused
sudden oak
That's why only a small group went to the gathering in Bts and even them not all of them ended well
One thing is joining the military and then leaving and other is being conscripted into it
meager warren
what
jade basalt
sudden oak
Joining the army willingly because you want to is not the same as Joining the army because there is a rule or law that forces you to do it
The latter is called conscription
Not everyone in the army is conscripted
meager warren
if i recall, lillian would rather die than be forced to fight for sylvanas
so no, there's not
sudden oak
Then you recall wrong :^)
uncut vault
Seems like its just a few select maps that work on the ptr
DCing going into silvermoon too
wooden topaz
you know reading some of the ptr spoilers makes me kind of upset
with how they carry it out
jade basalt
Like how Muradin goes 'oh by the Makers, this is the ancient, famous armor of my ancestor, the heritage of the Bronzebeard.. Well here you go random dude'
sudden oak
I mean you are the chosen of azeroth and you are part of the bronzebeard clan
Its not like we are a random in this expansion like in others like say vanilla or burning
wooden topaz
this game is becoming game of thrones
hollow dock
more like A song of Fire and Ice is becoming this game
Considering it came out way after.
zealous basalt
Well, considering you are part of the bronze beard clan...
And a known champion by this point
wooden topaz
why would they kill off king rastakahn
wooden topaz
well thats true lol
hollow dock
Death will eventually claim him, his kingdom, and his line
wooden topaz
but think of the potential !
wooden topaz
stop
hollow dock
no
meager warren
don't you hate the cliche of playing as "The Chosen One" or whatever?
why can't we play as a virtual nobody every expac
someone who nobody cares about
wooden topaz
thats quite true
wooden topaz
what about fable ?
meager warren
"Well i guess wait till classic ?"
but there are no benefits to playing classic
hollow dock
but become the sombody
and you can't play as a nobody because then
there's no story
go play Albion online
where htere is no story
hollow dock
but then you're not anobody
if you win a critical victory or hold a line
you become a hero
thus a sombody
meager warren
kill a small amount of demons and report to a low-ranking officer of the horde/ alliance
hollow dock
You've now ruined the whole reason you wanted to be a nobody in the first place.
zealous basalt
I mean, it's not like we arent that advanced in story as every character
hollow dock
As you keep repeating that exact same thing you just said arson
wooden topaz
why can't we play a mmo where if you die as a soldier your character gets deleted ?
meager warren
meager warren
what the fuck did i say
hollow dock
You can't be a nobody.
meager warren
why not
hollow dock
That's litearlly how RPGs work.
You start off as the nobody
and then you become somebody
that's not erased from 1 expac to the next
hollow dock
that's not how stories work
zealous basalt
Personal development
meager warren
it's a cliche for a reason, des
zealous basalt
Which is what everyone has
meager warren
a nobody who becomes a somebody for no reason is a bad cliche
hollow dock
they are NOT inherently bad
wooden topaz
I do say my favorite thing about fnv is you are a nobody on a quest for revenge
hollow dock
IT'S NOT FOR NO REASON IS THE POINT
Like you can't be this dense
every quest you do, every boss you kill
meager warren
WHAT REASON COULD HE POSSIBLY BECOME A SOMEBODY
hollow dock
that's something to gain notoriety for
LITERALLY
KILL NEFARIAN
END THE SUFFERING OF WESTFALL
ANY OF THAT RING A BELL?
zealous basalt
Even protecting northshire
meager warren
OH YES BECAUSE A NOBODY IS GOING TO HAVE THE POWER THAT SOMEBODIES CAN'T
hollow dock
SOLVE MURDERS, PROTECT NORTHSHIRE, DRIVE OFF THE HORDE FROM THE BADLANDS
THOSE ARE ALL THINGS YOU DO
wooden topaz
i think this is getting off topic
hollow dock
it's not
meager warren
smh
hollow dock
YOU'RE LITERALLY A NOBODY SOLDIER
1-60
just a merc
a dude with a blade lookin for work
and people hand it to you
you gain a lot of traction in the alliance
they send you to outland
you gain MORE traction
and it keeps going
and going
and going
hollow dock
until they give you General status in this army you serve
zealous basalt
Then Northrend
hollow dock
and then you leave
but your accomplisments stay
so they give you the black ops jobs
zealous basalt
Which is where all people there got a lot of fame (See garrosh)
meager warren
with all that accomplishment, why aren't they the leaders? 
hollow dock
All of WoW's history is literally nobody becoming somebody
That's not how leaderships work within the alliance.
For the horde, sure
have your character become leader if you want
meager warren
it's how it works for the horde
hollow dock
So then go and do it in the horde
meager warren
the option isn't even there
zealous basalt
But even in the Horde tou are bond to your warchief
hollow dock
^As mak points out
The most you can do is challenge the warchief for their position
and possibly lose
zealous basalt
You can dare a mak gora
meager warren
if i had the choice, i would have stabbed sylvanas in the back in cataclysm
hollow dock
So then you did it. You now live in a timeline without Sylvanas in it
congratz
now write out what happens
meager warren
but i don't
hollow dock
but you do.
meager warren
she's still here
zealous basalt
Your non canon fantasy
hollow dock
she's not
zealous basalt
Its all about morality
meager warren
🤦
hollow dock
For me, I live in a future with Teldrassil occupied by the horde because Tyrande didn't save Malfurion fast enough.
meager warren
we're not even talking about RPs
meager warren
hollow dock
Indeed. The alliance is fractured and is rebuilding itself.
meager warren
i said, "why can't we play nobody" and that turned into this
hollow dock
Because RPGs
zealous basalt
You asked that
hollow dock
that's litearlly what an RPG is.
meager warren
BECAUSE BLIZZARD DOESN'T WANT THAT
zealous basalt
You know the answer
hollow dock
I then gave EXAMPLES of why this exists
zealous basalt
That's pure whine coming from you
meager warren
wow isn't a choice based rpg
hollow dock
No one ever said it was LOL
meager warren
it's "do this or don't progress in the story"
meager warren
🤦
hollow dock
If you want a pure choice based RPG
zealous basalt
I mean
hollow dock
go and play Albion Online
zealous basalt
If you didn't want to be someone
hollow dock
you can sit and be a blacksmith for hours and hours. be a nobody forever.
meager warren
i bet albion online has a better story than wow so maybe i will
zealous basalt
But even that Des
hollow dock
It ahs 0 story
meager warren
wow has shit story
hollow dock
If you dont move. You get nothing
zealous basalt
You will he a known blacksmith
zealous basalt
He doesnt
meager warren
i did :)
hollow dock
so why are you even bitching
zealous basalt
He is just whining
hollow dock
Yea. he is
zealous basalt
Its like back with the lilian Voss issue
meager warren
i asked why we can't play a nobody
hollow dock
Was a long time coming
zealous basalt
You are stuck in Cata
uncut vault
His old name fit better
hollow dock
But man it feels good.
meager warren
i started in legion
hollow dock
Now to see the blocked text roll through
meager warren
ya know what, if ya'll are just gonna use ad hominem, i'm done
manic horizon
meager warren
you always do this
tulip sun
Seriously guys?
zealous basalt
Seriously what
hollow dock
I just slapped him on ignore and moved on
like demonte and the other whiners of the server
meager warren
"whiner"
ha
zealous basalt
Demonto
meager warren
that's funny coming from you, vris
zealous basalt
Ei, any words of the elven heritage armor?
hollow dock
Is it just WC3 retelling number 354?
zealous basalt
May I ask waht is the issue?
hollow dock
or does it expand upon that at all?
zealous basalt
It seems to expand dong
tulip sun
I think it is unique- telling it through the eyes of Lor'themar and Liadrin
hollow dock
I dont really care about dong. I care about details.
tulip sun
Learning their experiences a bit.
hollow dock
That doesn't make it unique for me
are the events different. Do we learn any new things that we couldn't learn from playing WC3
tulip sun
-didn't play WC3 so I can't honestly respond to that-
zealous basalt
I MEAN BOI
hollow dock
sack silvermoon
tulip sun
I mean, it goes into a lot more detail then?
zealous basalt
You have the news there
tulip sun
Something about defending magisters
dense plover
new wq reward
hollow dock
Alright nothing that actually changes what we learn in wc3
tulip sun
You see the sunwell get corrupted, don't know if that is in WC3
zealous basalt
Ye
hollow dock
yes it was
hollow dock
that's Kel'thuzad's resurrection
zealous basalt
Peach, is that live or ptr
hollow dock
Arthas book went into great detail of what happened through Eversong
tulip sun
Eh, I still like it tbh. Mostly because Lor'themar speaking about it and such.
Gives us some insight into his thinking
zealous basalt
We see anasterian I think
tulip sun
We do
hollow dock
So he has an actual m odel?
that's nice. still not different from wc3 but it's nice to see a model from him in WoW.
zealous basalt
No idea
tulip sun
Well, he has dialogue, but no model seen as of yet.
Unless I read wrong
-which could be the case-
zealous basalt
Ye
tulip sun
I am really happy with all the story goodies we got today
hollow dock
Oh yea that's covered in the arthas book
so nothing new
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
hollow dock
never been happierto not play horde
terse patrol
The heritage quest for Belves is rather... biased. :p. “We lived in idyllic peace... because we refused to help the humans with the scourge.” Then acted surprised when the Scourge came for them next.
tulip sun
I still like lorthemar and Liadrin telling the tale and such
zealous basalt
Well
hollow dock
but it more and more sounds like they just took that part of the campaign, added in the parts missing from the book, and bam.
that's your heritage quest.
but it changes nothing Kham
is my point
zealous basalt
They should have put when they dissed the humans and left them to their demise
But that would be anti bias
hollow dock
Looking at the battle from Sylvanas gives the exact same story as from Liadrin and Lor'themar
outside of their own personal reactions
and even then, that's pretty easy to guess
zealous basalt
At least now we arent fighting that dumb hoe every step
tulip sun
I suppose.
hollow dock
"Oh god. there's scourge everywhere. Everyones dying. Ahhhhhh. Poor us."
zealous basalt
Y u no stay dead