oh wait
#beta-ptr-spoilers
slate ingot
She'll be garrosh 2.0 escape via return of I finite dragon flight
Die in a field
Next expansion
Because plot armor
zealous basalt
sigh
grizzled sleet
Sylvanas won't be a raid boss, they already said that the story will progress and we may see ther from another pespective
ruby star
Wrath 2.0 will be WoD 2.0 😉
slate ingot
The joke writing seems like an attempt to get people to go alliance
zealous basalt
Lol
true matrix
you can't paint something like this as sympathetic. I don't think there's any turning around at this point
zealous basalt
Only stupid people would turn alliance because of this
exotic mason
Actually you should try to use arguments instead of shittalking all the time
slate ingot
What the hell are you on about
true matrix
answers on a postcard
slate ingot
People already dislike the direction sylvannas is going
zealous basalt
I mained Alliance since WotlK
slate ingot
Cool?
exotic mason
@slate ingot you act like an 12 year old kid
zealous basalt
Went horde after seeing how Sylvanas turned
Well not main
But she is preferebly less boring than the other warchief
true matrix
you can be interesting without being genocidal brent
terse patrol
It’s going to be interesting to see Sylvanas apologists work after this.
zealous basalt
Someone pulled Malfurion away from the questzone
hollow dock
@tulip sun I called it btw
grizzled sleet
Imagine, living on X country, your president burn a tree (or a city), you don't like it, but you can do nothing about it
hollow dock
Thats the horde atm
solar vapor
I wonder how Sylvanas apologists are going to work when she's their raid boss
solar vapor
Horde is getting seriously screwed
is this blizzard's attempt at balancing the factions?
make horde so evil they transfer alliance?
hollow dock
Nope
zealous basalt
Again
hollow dock
This is literally the horde being the horde its always been
hollow dock
If you hopped on the train under thrall, tough
mint arch
HAHAHAAHAHA
HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
HAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA
morally grey
i actually didnt think they'd have sylvanas do it, i legit thought it would be azshara
ruby prawn
Why would Sylvanas want to burn the tree
solar vapor
I knew it was sylvanas from the start.
restive sage
i wanna pway wow 2.0
solar vapor
"you can't kill hope!"
restive sage
C:
mint arch
i thought blizzard was being coy for a reason
solar vapor
"hold my beer"
strange falcon
^
mint arch
strange falcon
she didnt intend to burn the tree at first,then an elf on the shore told her "you cant kill hope" and she went "oh really?,fuck you"
mint arch
oh man, i need to see sylvanas fanboi defenders now, the pure gold we'll get from em now
she's a petty child
ruby prawn
The warbrjngers is the only cinematic?
solar vapor
"THE ELF ANTAGONISED HER IT'S THE ELF'S FAULT FOR DRIVING HER TO THE EDGE"
restive sage
uh
solar vapor
"REEE STUPID ELVES MAKING MY PURE FRAGILE SYLVANAS EVIL"
you know that's the argument they're going to make.
ruby prawn
I don't think anyone would want to defend d Sylvanas
ruby prawn
As a Hordie, I hate her
solar vapor
It's rated T
zealous basalt
"Fuck it"
solar vapor
isn't it
zealous basalt
REST IN PEACE I SAVED 1
solar vapor
It should be M but meh
uncut vault
I think whats worse than her pulling an arthas
is that they dont address that shes pulling an arthas
at all
solar vapor
"you can't kill hope"
clever oriole
teldrassil 🅱roke
hollow dock
Shes made it full circle
uncut vault
flashbacks served no purpose, sylvanas failing to recognize that delaryn is in the same situation she was is so idiotic
grizzled sleet
CONFIRMED ARTHAS IS STILL ALIVE. He's living inside Sylvanas
mint arch
HAHA, like/dislike ratio disabled for the cinematic vide 
jade basalt
When you realize Deathwing could have one shot that tree by sneezing. There isn't even magic or some mcguffin like Azerite involved, Sylvanas just destroys Teldrassil with some demolishers.
solar vapor
she TOTALLY understands
hollow dock
Thats how unempatheitc she is tho.
hollow dock
Just to further prove what I keep saying
mint arch
was it demolishers?
solar vapor
for being "naive and weak" or some shit
hollow dock
SHE DOESNT FEEL EMOTIONS
solar vapor
She would probably thank arthas for making her a banshee
just so she got more powerful
grizzled sleet
That's why you don't live on trees nowadays... oh wait..... think about Zul and Stormwind
solar vapor
she's going FULL garrosh.
slate ingot
morally grey
solar vapor
"Morally Grey"
burn it.
uncut vault
this isnt a garrosh, but it is pretty horrid
tulip sun
You did in fact call it Vris.
solar vapor
You're right this is worse than garrosh
tulip sun
That was unexpected
hollow dock
It was 100% expected
solar vapor
garrosh thought he was doing good and was steadfast in his beliefs
solar vapor
sylvanas just did a total 180 from when she was alive
zealous basalt
Since the beginning?
solar vapor
and essentially just killed someone in the same situation she was in
tulip sun
A lot of people thought it would be something else, at the least unintentional
mint arch
she did a total 180 after wrath
even before cata she wasnt this lich queen death bitch
solar vapor
it's like a fucking mirror image of arthas killing his inner good self when he became the LK
hollow dock
They were very wrong and didnt read into before the storm well enough then
mint arch
now its just "life is a curse"
solar vapor
They read it
and tried to rationalize hitler strategies
"well she just killed the betrayers!"
five second in the novel before "I'm going to murder all of them"
hollow dock
The queldorei BETRAYED THEM
mint arch
the only reason i thought it would be aszhara was cause blizzard were hiding this cinematic so much
solar vapor
"Because they question my authority"
mint arch
i legit thought they'd have some twist
zealous basalt
Blizz
mint arch
but nah xD
mint arch
ya
grizzled sleet
They were not hiding this cinematic so much, all cinematics are hidden in beta / ptr
mint arch
i thought they were doing this as they had some twist in mind
zealous basalt
Next time blame the dataminers for not doing their job
mint arch
hmm, well
jade basalt
"Should I
- Make some night elves even more sad
- Harvest the fruit of my strategic victory and enjoy ten times the benefit of plan 1) ?"
- Sylvanas
solar vapor
I can't wait to see the lordaeron cinematic.
jade basalt
'Did you lose hope yet ?!'
solar vapor
Watch as Sylvanas plagues undercity with troops still inside
and then blows up brill
MARK MY WORDS
CALLING IT NOW
SEE YOU IN A WEEK
hollow dock
Brill explodes before we get there grimm
north raptor
Isn't that confirmed kind of?
hollow dock
Like the scenario starts with the alliance at their bulkhead
uncut vault
its already plainly obvious she blows up the city
goblins setting up bombs everywhere
zealous basalt
Ahh
uncut vault
plague canisters across the city
solar vapor
jesus christ
grizzled sleet
one of the cinematics is about Jaina
zealous basalt
The people of the non-spoiler are fun to read
grizzled sleet
but not warbringer
hollow dock
She fills the back end with plague
solar vapor
she's blowing up her own cities now?
fuckin brill and lorderon both get the plague treatment
watch in a BFA raid to kill Sylvanas
she'll plague bomb orgramar
and flee
mint arch
nah mate, she has purple boob plot armor
watch how she gets "redemption" or some shit
-_-
solar vapor
INB4 the battle for azeroth ends with all the horde cities get destroyed and the alliance wins wow
grizzled sleet
8.4 Redemption arc
exotic mason
Cant wait to see you guys telling better storys lmao - it was obviously not the plan to burn the tree. The Elve should have just be quiet and dont challenge her
zealous basalt
Like people
I swear, you need a big slap on da face, not everyone need redemption
solar vapor
is that sarcasm or a literal sylvanas defender?
hollow dock
@mint arch @terse patrol SYLVIE APOLOGIST FOUND
solar vapor
"you said you can't kill hope so it's totally justified I commit genocide"
zealous basalt
Come at me
zealous basalt
Wait
solar vapor
AND IT IS TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE
zealous basalt
r u talkin bout him or me
north raptor
One legit question
solar vapor
The entire fucking idea that sylvanas has any redeeming qualities is laughable at best
grizzled sleet
MALFURION STORMRAGE MUST DIE
solar vapor
it's downright insulting to our species that you can possibly be that dumb
hollow dock
This is pretty clear she has no redeemable qualities
north raptor
Gameplay one kind of, is the mount obtainable during the siege of undercity
solar vapor
it's gotten after the burning
north raptor
like pre 15th of August
solar vapor
anduin gives it to you
hollow dock
Yes it'll be obtainable in prepatch kod
zealous basalt
She is good as evil
hollow dock
During the whole prepatch
grizzled sleet
Killing malfurion would have been worse than burning Teldrassil, at least she didn't do it
hollow dock
August 14th itll stop being available
north raptor
ahh thanks
solar vapor
inb4 90% of players get the mount
zealous basalt
Mig
solar vapor
honestly
zealous basalt
That was Saurfang
solar vapor
killing malfurion would have been preferable
exotic mason
Actually she will do something way more worse then Garrosh 2.0
zealous basalt
She could have totally murderized him
solar vapor
She already has
zealous basalt
oof
solar vapor
the fuck you talkin bout
solar vapor
talking to asci
hollow dock
Lose*
hollow dock
Oh.
solar vapor
HOW MANY RACIAL CAPITALS HAS GARROSH BLOWN UP?
hollow dock
Rip not following well on the phone
exotic mason
Brah
solar vapor
she blows up lorderon
we already know that to be true
she's basically fantasy hitler at this point.
hollow dock
All thats missing is the camps
solar vapor
no she isn't
exotic mason
Dude i didnt meant it in that way - she wont become "just" Garrosh 2.0
zealous basalt
You are looking to this in an alliance standpoint, which is the point of what she does this
grizzled sleet
She just wanted to make sure it inhabitable, for gameplay purposes it has to be done, otherwise alliance will get lordaron while horde get nothing
solar vapor
go spend a day in the forsaken starting zone
she already has camps for humans she has experimented on
zealous basalt
Ye
solar vapor
she also kills a fuck ton of horde soldiers in making it uninhabitable
you can see that cinimatic now
solar vapor
yeah
grizzled sleet
You can't, what are you talking about?
zealous basalt
Oh
solar vapor
beta showed her releasing plague on alliance and horde soldiers
zealous basalt
I thought you meant the other cinematic
solar vapor
I wonder if we're going to get another half baked flashback to give sylvanas "relatability" before she bombs two cities and hundreds more civilians
in battle for lorderon
grizzled sleet
there is 2 cinematics I think, I don't think thay are about Sylvanas
one of them is about Jaina
solar vapor
so after we follow Sylvanas
we get two random custscenes unrelated to the incident
then we get told by an npc
"Oh yeah while you were on your acid trip sylvanas bombed brill and undercity for plot reasons TM and we'll never see any of that happen."
I don't buy it
right after Saurfang get's captured you bet your ass there is going to be a cinematic involving what syvlanas does and how brill and undercity get plauge bombed
It's just going to be her saying "I CAN'T LET THEM HAVE IT. RELEASE THE PLAUGE" and then watching both cities burn with biological warfare as we get allusions to the wrath gate
tropic trail
Accidentally invades Undercity
solar vapor
Honestly at this point I wouldn't be surprised if Sylvanas put putriss up to the wrath gate
just because it's more convenient for her.
hollow dock
She didnt
tropic trail
That was his own accord
solar vapor
so basically putress jumped the gun
hollow dock
Yup
solar vapor
I mean she DID develop a plague that killed both the living and undead
probably to kill off the horde
I wonder
did Voljin make her warchief because the spirits knew, that if she weren't warchief
she'd go unnoticed until she just straight up murdered the horde into the forsaken horde?
solar vapor
"step out of the shadows, and lead"
the way he says it
it almost sounds like an accusation
he KNOWS she's going to try and kill everyone
but he's so weak and dying that he can't rally troops to do it
so he decided to put her on the spotlight so she wouldn't be able to do it.
subtle, just like the darkspear we know and love
calm plank
that would be interesting
solar vapor
Vol'Jin comes back
zealous basalt
@hollow dock
tropic trail
#NotMyVol'Jin
solar vapor
"I had to do something, I couldn't defeat her there, but I knew, if she were warchief, you'd see dis, and stop her.."
tropic trail
Not really hesitated
calm plank
at least he was kinda surprised
solar vapor
INB4 SYLVANAS DIES AND NATHANOS BECOMES FORSAKEN'S NEW RACIAL LEADER
tropic trail
Fire fetish? Check.
solar vapor
CALLING IT
tropic trail
I thought you said Thanos tbh
zealous basalt
Thanos?
solar vapor
I gotta go to work
zealous basalt
But why is Gamora?
solar vapor
You mean garona?
Wait
did blizz just rip off marvel comic names?
HOLY SHIT GARNOA IS A GAMORA REFERENCE
GREEN, ALIEN ASSASSINS THAT FALL IN LOVE WITH A MYSTERIOUS HUMAN !?
solar vapor
holy shit gamora is just Garona.
two dual daggers
yep
new headcanon
Anyway
REMEMBER EVERYONE
Burn it.
calm plank
woke af
zealous basalt
who is gamora
uncut vault
why is gamora
tropic trail
Where is Gamora?
mint arch
when is gamora?
hollow dock
What is Gamora
forest tartan
triangle faced monkey
mint arch
ruined >:
zealous basalt
:C
mint arch
hollow dock
Also I gotta point out
Sylvanas wanted to invade teldrassil
Why would she say invade?
zealous basalt
10/10 invasions
hollow dock
Why not prepare for the occupation?
mint arch
11/10 invasion
tropic trail
To ruin hope
zealous basalt
VRIS
restive sage
mint arch
zealous basalt
Ah nvm
You said it already
I was going to ask if you saw that Nathanos hesitated
sharp bluff
Well, that was just as disappointing as expected sigh.... well at least we get a mount today....
zealous basalt
Honestly
We saw how temperamental she is in the comic of the three sisters
When she went Reeee
hollow dock
This isnt even her temperment
This isnt her going ree.
This is her being spiteful.
And its glorious
zealous basalt
But she even says how the burning wasnt something she planned
Whst is that banshee hidding
hollow dock
She may not have planned to burn, but she planned to slaughter everyone. Probably wanted to use the tree as a port
worthy tartan
Holy shit the new cinematic
mint arch
ud think saurfang would say something as well
zealous basalt
He says something
worthy tartan
Syl went garrosh 2.0
zealous basalt
In the siege
mint arch
hmm
i would of hoped he'd be like, "wait, warchief" or something in the cinematic
i doubt its honourable to burn down a world tree for no reason
lean sable
she said to occupy the tree, ie take it over without having to kill civilians
then she got triggered and burned the tree
end of
mint arch
she "loves" nathanos
chrome compass
I mean... Saurfang lost like 30% of his honor when he attacked Malfurion from behind.
lean sable
nah, its either you have honor or you lost all of it
mint arch
well sure, but he regretted the coward attack
hollow dock
He does
and he's without honor now
he sees that in hismelf now
that's why he charges off to die in battle
mint arch
like in GoT, jaimie gets pissed when one of his guards attacks ned behind his back
mint arch
its a thing of honour that when ur dueling someone 1v1, u dont attack em from behind out of the blue
lean sable
yea then pruddy boi is like "naaah like take you to stormwind"
hollow dock
No no void
remember
this is betweenMalf
and Sylv
Saurfang interupts with a cowardly attack
hollow dock
yup
mint arch
hollow dock
cuz Malf was about to win
lean sable
Yeeeee
hollow dock
Nothings changed from datamining bois
mint arch
"blizzard are hiding the REAL story behind these fake datamined text"
lean sable
more like they tried to imply its not her
untill they released the warbringers vid
but honestly
i am not suprised it was her
i just kinda expected it to be something that wasnt her acting like a teenage girl cause some one said something
lean sable
by being triggered by a dying nelf
cause again, she originally just wanted to occupy the tree
thats it
then she does this
zealous basalt
And she realizes that she fucked her plans
autumn dagger
Is it too far fetched to think that maybe she knows about teldrassil being corrupted? And she's trying to stop the old gods?
hollow dock
you're evacuating civilains right
and theyre all dressed like sentinels
LOL
Here's the thing Sir
that doesn't matter
Teldrassil isn't corrupt as of Cataclysm
@lean sable She says to prepare aninvasion force
she wanted to kill
not occupy
the Burning may not be apart of that plan, but she did not plan on keeping those elves alive
tropic trail
I'm tempted to do a fake video commercial with two horde players greeting each pther and being buddies. Then suddenly, one of those goes disappionted and turns away, showing his Saurfang-Orc-Backside of the shirt. Than the camera pans over to the Sylvannas shirt on the other one. Que the "It matters"-Phrase
hollow dock
You honestly still want to take her at face value
even though she's a pathological lier
uncut vault
her literally saying she wants to occupy it and keep the civilians hostage is a lot more proof than "well she could be lying!!!"
mint arch
that is a dumb plan
mint arch
killing malf is incredibly dumb
mint arch
her entire reasoning was beyond dumb
hollow dock
there's no military in Teldrassil. Delaryn confirms this
tropic trail
I mean, she herself aknowledges it's dumb:
No reason to make it out as a stroke of plan
She had an psychotic episode
tropic trail
And did something idiotic
zealous basalt
That's what she wanted
mint arch
and occupying teldrassil would do nothing
inflict a wound that would bleed alliance dry 
and ive seen sylvanas fanbois be like "but Anduin cant control genn and jaina, see stormheim"
ignore that anduin was BARELY king at that point of time, was still conflicted and sad about his father's death, genn was basically leading the alliance army at that point, so on
Anduin: "hey, lets have peace"
Sylvanas: "OH BOY, he's gonna start a war!"
zealous basalt
If you think about it
Sylvanas didnt do anything this event
She didnt kill malf
She didnt capture Tree
mint arch
aye, her incredibly stupid "plan" failed in all points
"we partially succeeded"
though i guess if she meant succeeded in that she did start the war
zealous basalt
She failed the moment she started calling winning
zealous basalt
Undercity Plaguebat
hollow dock
Alright can confirm you get both for playing 1 side
zealous basalt
Ye
calm plank
ye boi
mint arch
oh baby, sylvanas fancucks are using real world war to try and justify the tree burning
uncut vault
thats not how trees work
zealous basalt
Oof
mint arch
Premptive strike against your enemy? Pearl Harbor, Israel's Six Day War
Hell, the alliance's attack on the horde fleet in stormheim? Midway.
Burning of Teldrassil? Hiroshima```i mean, u can make real world parallels
tranquil steeple
I can't see that as "justification", sounds more like "real life comparisons" to me.
mint arch
No army wants their enemy to have any hope. You defeat your enemy before they can defeat you. Period. WoW does not sit in the 21st century. Everything in the game thus far has parallels to the real world.
???
hollow dock
LOL
mint arch
oops
hollow dock
someone else got hit by the spam bot
mint arch
tranquil steeple
mint arch
mint arch
forums yup
hollow dock
both sides wouldn't know balance or character progression if it slapped them in the face
mint arch
all the EDGE going on btw
#ImWithHer
#ForTheHorde
#ForTheBansheeQueen
#VictoryForSylvanas
hollow dock
People built up Sylvanas as this 'Anti-hero'
when she's never been that
so now that their own construction of Sylvanas burns with Teldrassil
they get mad
¯_(ツ)_/¯
mint arch
We did nothing wrong, bad or evil.
The Horde is on the brink of invading Darnassus and Tyrande chooses to save Malfurion rather than Darnassus.
The Horde has been in Darkshore for a week if Tyrande did not evacuate the civilians from Darnassus that is on her...not us.```
hollow dock
LOL
jade basalt
hollow dock
he didn't read Teldrassil lore then
zealous basalt
Kek
calm plank
so to sum it up she burned the tree because she was angry
calm plank
legitimate reasons
hollow dock
She a thot
jade basalt
And then she's like 'We've only partially succeeded'.. well yes. because of your dumb ass.
sullen dagger
Oh mam o man
Can we forget about the morally grey shit about sylvannas now?
Im hyped
She's so dead this or the next xpac
calm plank
either she dead or she not part of the horde
sullen dagger
Ooooh how I'm gonna enjoy the purge of the banshee queen
cinder knoll
there is nothing like "morally gray" now
sullen dagger
Hehehehehhehehehehe
cinder knoll
I guess none eats that s**t any longer
I was hoping till the last moment Blizz really has something...
no they didn't
sullen dagger
Nope
She burned
And she's batshit crazy
And rotten evil
And the worst part is
She's the warchief of the horde
cinder knoll
the only reason I'm staying Horde right now is my guild
my hope for story is already lost
hollow dock
SHE HAS BEEN THIS WAY SINCE WE FIRST MEET HER DARK RANGER SELF IN WC3
cinder knoll
on the other hand, I can be only possitively surprised at some moment
hollow dock
WHY WAS THIS IN ANY DOUBT
sullen dagger
But now there's no grey shit horde can cling on
hollow dock
C=
Ironically Sylvanas did what Garrosh set out to do
make the horde like it's original invasion inception
cinder knoll
I don't think ppl who dont like Sylvanas liked Garrosh
tranquil steeple
I don't like either 🤷
hollow dock
I love Sylvanas
zealous basalt
Why are you in Horde if you dont like being genocidal
hollow dock
hate Garrosh for his wasted potential
restive sage
yea
hollow dock
Why play horde if you know what they've done 🤔
restive sage
horde isnt for u
dusky ginkgo
Hey, I signed in when it was still "The monstrous looking races are not actually monstrous".
restive sage
who r we talking about btw
monstrous looking on horde side?
have you seen worgen?
zealous basalt
You seem to play with a belf
hollow dock
If you knew their history you got no excuses. Even you inay :p
zealous basalt
So...
restive sage
draenai
dusky ginkgo
I have all the excuse 'cause you love me @hollow dock
hollow dock
Listen
languid yoke
worgen are cute boys
hollow dock
Listen Lucy
restive sage
uh lets see here
hollow dock
You're not wrong but you aren't right
dusky ginkgo
But more seriously, I liked the "We're monstrous looking and we did lot of shit but we're kinda trying to get a redemption of some kind right now".
hollow dock
yea its not been that way since cata.
zealous basalt
I dont get why would Horde like redemption
restive sage
me neither
dusky ginkgo
I can still be sad about it!
tranquil steeple
imagine playing a game not for the story but the people you play it with
hollow dock
then you shouldn't at all be bothered by this
stable basin
Why would I play an MMORPG if I didn't care about the story?
tranquil steeple
I'm not saying there should be no care for the story, but making every decision purely based on the story... ehhhhh.
hollow dock
that's what I did in only playing nelves with 1 human
stable basin
It's an RPG?
dusky ginkgo
I'm staying for the RP. <shrug> I don't have much hopes for the bigger story of that expansion
tranquil steeple
(was missing a word, so edited)
zealous basalt
Story for BfA looks good so far
But people dont like their "For Glorious Horde, we are good people"
tranquil steeple
Which again is understandable, but play the game for the game itself, and immerse in the story on the side, and don't let it make you view other people as "lesser" or "evil" just because they're painted as such in the story, when the players IN THE GAME did nothing in the story itself.
hollow dock
Oh I dont view the people
just the factions
and I point out to the players that if they dont want to play the bad guys
hollow dock
why pick the faction that's had trouble with being hte bad guys in the first place
zealous basalt
And think they are goos
mint arch
Don't antagonize the Warchief! If you had just kept your cool, you'd still have a tree. But NOOOOOO! You wanted to poke the undead bear. This is why we cant have nice things.
tranquil steeple
Because I play with people, not "bad" or "good" guys.
hollow dock
again
Not saying
They're actually bad people
or good people
I dont care about the player
I am pointing out to the players who have an issue playing the bad faction
why pick the faction that started out bad in the first place
I can't spell this out any more clear Sela
sullen dagger
I think that maybe this is a meta move by blizzard
To make more people play alliance
Call me crazy but...
zealous basalt
You dont know Horde at all
mint arch
make love, not war~
zealous basalt
Horde has done worse things in the past
sullen dagger
Cause they fucked up with the passives
vocal sinew
zealous basalt
...
tropic trail
This bad boy can fit so many fires in it
zealous basalt
Bad meme
vocal sinew
limber mural
so
warbringers
looks like we're having another 'unanimously evil horde' expac again lads
zealous basalt
Implying they were good guys all over
mint arch
^
ruby star
I just hope Blizzard doesn't try redeem her, because that would be terrible. She can't be redeemed after what she did. Evil
limber mural
I groaned alongside everyone else memeing 'SoO 2.0'
but
can it really go any other way now
the alliance just have total moral clearness to retaliate in kind
hollow dock
Yes
It can
Because this doesnt hurt the horde
Unlike garrosh
Jesus
Like. Do people forget that all horde vets fought in the second war
Where they commited genocide of the high elves with the amani?
limber mural
as I see it, the ideal writing doesn't paint the Horde as the objective 'bad guys'
which this is
entirely
so what are they gonna do to resolve it
'redeeming' her is idiotic at this point
limber mural
yeah but they've always been better than straight unarguable 'good v evil' with the faction war
A large percentage of horde players will not consider themselves 'the bad guys'
I just can't believe they're going down the 'unarguably good and moral' vs 'unarguably bad and evil' route
hollow dock
Uh
Garrosh
That happened
Second war
Fjrst war
First*
The Draenei genocide
The hordes been the objective bad guy for a really long time
ruby star
I would not compare horde vs alliance to Void vs Light
hollow dock
Thrall changed it but put Garrosh in charge
ruby star
Alliance has void and light races
limber mural
But there's always been an excuse for them to either take a moral high ground or just feel 'downtrodden'
hollow dock
No there was no excuse for the second war
That was Doomhammer doing what orcs were promised
Conquest
limber mural
Garrosh saw quite a few NPCs objecting from the get go, you didn't feel alone in hating him and the narrative supported you
Sorry, correction - can't believe they're going down this route still
hollow dock
First War was them satiating their bloodlust that they drove mad by drinking dekons blood.
So you can argue theres the excuse
Garrosh had none. But he was acitvely harming and breaking the horde
Sylvanas isnt
limber mural
ingame yes, the narrative means that the Horde would probably support Sylvanas, mostly
but players would be, and are, 'wtf why do I have to be evil now'
hollow dock
Tough shit IMO
limber mural
Just the sudden change of tack seems to scream 'sub loss and faction transfers' and I'm confused why Blizz would do it
hollow dock
I did a bit of reading when i first played and saw the horde in first and second wars
So i picked alliance
limber mural
honestly I might've picked horde had the races looked a little more appealing to me
and if I had I'd be vexed now
zealous basalt
SADLY YU PICKED THE WRONG RACE FOO
limber mural
prepares reeeee
hollow dock
If you played through WoW and just turned a blind eye to everything the hordes done in the past up to Wrath
alright. Understandable
limber mural
prepares opinions bell
hollow dock
the horde was trying to redeem itself and make peace.
But if you turned a blind eye STILL in cata, just ousting Garrosh as a maniac and nothing more
You're the one at honest fault. The horde as a machination. The horde bred Garrosh into what he became. Not thrall and not even Garrosh himself
Garrosh was a good kid before joining the horde
zealous basalt
Ashamed of his name
limber mural
that's the thing though, the horde has modernised and I think some players' expectations have changed. NPCs were like 'wtf garros', Vol'jin was morally sound, Thrall is morally sound, Sylvanas in Legion was eh kinda chaotic but sort of moral but Sylvanas now is unarguably evil
limber mural
sure they were all 'we dislike the alliance' but
hollow dock
Sylvanas' first diplomatic action as a leader
hollow dock
was backstabbing her allies
Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it
History is what builds us up
languid yoke
I never liked sylvanas anyway
hollow dock
History is what makes us who we are
History made Sylvanas a backstabbing cunt in WC3
languid yoke
should've stayed dead after wotlk
hollow dock
no one wanted to learn that when Legion came around. No one wanted to learn that when cata came around
when she directly defied the warchief
languid yoke
instead of forcing me to see her face and hear her awful voice
limber mural
Frankly if this is what Sylvanas wanted all along
Why haven't we heard more
Vol'jin was quite happy to be chill
mint arch
btw, u see how sylvanas dies in the cinematic? XD
SLIIIIIIIDE, oh wait ur there
stab
limber mural
reeeeee increased reeeeee SERIOUSLY REEEEEE
hollow dock
But yea.
Honestly
play the faction with a history of being evil
you should expect that
if you don't
tough shit when it happens
limber mural
It's a matter of 'if this was a book it'd make sense;
but if blizzard are out to please the fanbase, which obviously they will cause subs
it's a serious head scratcher
hollow dock
Maybe because they're not. They wanted to drive this story forward
not betray Sylvanas' character
which is a backstabbing cunt
limber mural
We've seen for months the 'remind me why I associate with this bitch and her shit'
hollow dock
and you should. Because guess what
for all of WoW
this is what she's been
but she's been off to the side
never to be put on the spotlight
now she is and everyone wants to complain and bitch and moan about it
sage kestrel
she still wouldn't be the type to give in to an injured dying elf provoking though thats the only issue ive had with it personally
hollow dock
That's why i dont think she did
limber mural
she gave in to a few bois walking off in a field
hollow dock
and that's why I think she did it purposefully
sage kestrel
you can tell though where the fell for it the moment the elf said she pitied her you could literally see the snap
limber mural
That's really where I think sylvanas will fall. She is provokable when people call her bluff
limber mural
but it's a weakness
hollow dock
so?
mint arch
i mean, u see the amount of EDGY horde kids
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and considering characters like Saurfang are just waiting for her to slip
mint arch
going all "formyqueen, burnthetree" and so on
hollow dock
Baine is
Saurfang's just chilling in his cell like a grumpy kid
not wanting to deal with Sylvanas' shit
tropic trail
You act like thats a bad thing though
limber mural
There's a line from the book saying that she knows Saurfang is watching her, to see if she puts one foot out of line
I reckon if Saurfang emerges in like idk patch 8.2 he's going to be morally immaculate
and save the fckin horde
mint arch
he's gonna SMACK that bitch in 8.2
hollow dock
Hordes nothing more than a bunch of warmongering curs that need to be put down
limber mural
Warlike but with sound honor
hollow dock
like Daelin said
mint arch
he just is planning with anduin on how to cease the war between A and H and focus on old gods
limber mural
And honor opens up to reasonability when he respects the other side, which he does
hollow dock
he sits in his cell now
mint arch
coid
hollow dock
not going to anduin
tropic trail
I hope we don't see a SoO 2
tranquil trout
love complexe
sullen dagger
Lich queen incomong
She even use the scourge on the third week of the prepatch no?
And bolvar becoming good again
I see that
grizzled sleet
Quoting this from someone else :
Did you skip the purging of Dalaran during MoP? And I expect the reason you started with MoP was because in Cataclysm, it wasn't the Horde that was infiltrated by the Twilight Cult at high levels. It was Green Jesus who saved the world. In the SoO patch, sure Garrosh was the villain, but Vol'jin was the Hero. If everything about orcs in WoD make horde the villains, then wouldn't everything about the Eredar make the alliance villains?
Sure, Sylvanas carries the villain stick a lot. Garrosh did to. Garrosh's villainy was pretty interesting, it was born from his inferiority complex, which we saw the different ways it manifested over time. It made his character more interesting. "Bad guy" is kind of reductive.
I totally agree
I read some people saying they will switch to alliance after warching the Sylvanas cinematic. Seems like fake horde members 
sharp bluff
Probably, I may hate the way thy made her seem like "you said I can't kill hope, so I will burn your tree"
but I am still staying horde
sullen dagger
Again
hollow dock
Uh
sullen dagger
Purge of dalaran was the purge of a faction
grizzled sleet
It was a response to the question "Why Horde always must be the bad guys?"
OP said WoD:Everything about orcs (Orcs=horde) super hero khadgar
hollow dock
But thats literally also in our timeline
Before the orcs drank the demon blood
They massacred the draenei
Drove them from Shattrath
steel venture
This is so fucking stupid that Sylvanas burns it.
hollow dock
I called it btw
grizzled sleet
But those orcs aren't actual horde
steel venture
How did DEATHWING'S FLAMING WINGS NOT BURN IT DOWN IN CATA THEN?
hollow dock
Yes they are.
The orcs from first war
From the draenei genocide
From the second qar
War
Are all still in the hord
They didnt leave
They werent executed
grizzled sleet
🤔
hollow dock
Thrall didnt suddenly make them not genocidal orcs.
steel venture
I fucking hate that Teldrassil is basically as flamable as literally any tree. I'm sorry for interrupting but AAAAAAUUUGHH.
THIS IS SO STUPID.
hollow dock
Just like on the alliance, the kids that got orphaned by the second war are
Gonna hate the horde
Heck even by the first war
In total what. Thirty years has passed since then?
Thats not even a full generation
lone marten
Hey @hollow dock II play horde not because of the violent tendencies of SOME of the races in it but because of the lore of other races like troll and tauren!!
hollow dock
Then enjoy it
But I dont want to hear bitching about being the bad guys. You joined for the lore
You know the hordes lore going in
grizzled sleet
Instead of Lok'tar Ogar you can say Vok'shar Ogar
hollow dock
Like. Going by events, being the 'good horde' is releatively short in historical terms.
grizzled sleet
About orcs, I don't see them as bad for what they did, they didn't evolve the same way as humans for example. It's like Present Humans vs "Savage" humans from the past, like gladiators or something like that
lone marten
haha @grizzled sleet Cringy tho
zealous basalt
And not
zealous basalt
"What are we if not slaves of this torment"
hollow dock
even opening trade between them
grizzled sleet
hollow dock
If you don't then sure I guess
lone marten
Gul Dan set that up Vris
hollow dock
Just ignore that the orc clans MOSTLY knew not to war with each other
and no
Ghoulish Daniel DIDN'T set that up
Ner'zhul did.
lone marten
Silly Ner zhul
hollow dock
rather than questioning it like any rational person
he just said "Well OK then."
made the hordeand attacked
grizzled sleet
I don't defend them, I play only alliance, I just accept them as they are, so I don't see them as "bad", just "savage" like humans have been in the past (real life)
hollow dock
I dont see hte orcs as bad objectively
I don't even see the horde as bad objectively
but
Sylvanas is making them the bad guys
theyre doing bad guy things
they are the baddies
Hell Lords of War enforces this idea that yes they know they are a violent race and being violent
is
bad
grizzled sleet
hollow dock
IMo playing only 1 side
doesn't matter
the information is available to both sides.
I love nobbel
grizzled sleet
An interesting post about Sylvanas burning the tree : https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/93g48v/on_second_thought_it_makes_sense/
So... My first reaction was dissapointment. For obvious reasons.
But then someone brought up a very valid point.
With Malf alive, Sylvanas really would struggle to hold Darnassus. And as the elf said, as long as the Teldrassil stood, the elves would have hope of retaking it. It wasn't "hope" in general that she was talking about, it was the hope of victory in that specific battle.
So she acted like a real military general would. If you cant hold a strategic objective, destroy it. Just like how in 1812 the Russian army set Moscow aflame as they abandoned it due to Napoleon's advance, knowing they couldn't stop him at the time).
By burning down Teldrassil not only does she accomplish her original goal of cleansing Kalimdor (thus securing Azerite), but also showing Alliance that she is nobody to mess with. Remember, she's still quite pissed at them for the whole "undead defecting & Calia Menethil" thing.
So yes. As weird as it sounds, if you THINK about it, the burning down makes sense.
I know not many people will read this or care, but to me, that actually makes me feel much better about this whole thing. I am all up for all-out war on Alliance, and burning down one of the capitals is a-ok in my book. I just wanted not to have lazy writing - and it seems we dont. At least not from my point of view right now.
For the Horde!
zealous basalt
....
mint arch
she didnt burn down buildings
mint arch
she burnt down a fcking WORLD TREE
zealous basalt
Whatshisname
mint arch
jesus christ with ppl continuously making real world comparisons to the shit horde are doing
as if it justifies anything
zealous basalt
Saurfang
mint arch
or is relevant
limber mural
I like how Nobbel just laughs his head off
lone marten
I play Horde AND Alliance but mainly Horde. Anyway, I want Sylvanas to die a thousand deaths
Then we can get Baine as the Warchief
zealous basalt
Why tho
grizzled sleet
And She will come back to life thousand times
zealous basalt
She solved the problem with Night elves
lone marten
Shhhhh
zealous basalt
As an orc you should be happy for it
sharp bluff
I like Baine Vok, but I don't think he would make a good warchief