And I can't get any more quests
#beta-ptr-spoilers
lone charm
uncut vault
are you friendly with all factions?
lone charm
Yes
restive sage
are you exalted with all factions
lone charm
No...?
restive sage
see
uncut vault
Huh, dunno then, should report it as a bug, tied to the world quest stuff
dense plover
Have you done all of the zone’s starter stories @lone charm
You have to complete the stories of the 4 main zones
lone charm
4?
dense plover
Stormheim highmountain valsharah and azsuna
uncut vault
theyre talking BfA
uncut vault
we are in the BfA chat, lol
dense plover
You still need to complete zone stories tho
At least the first time
And might need to have established footholds via war campaign
lone charm
I can't do war compaign
lone charm
Cose after 112 lvl quest they disappeared
dense plover
Did you go to the relevant zone to do the quest?
Then you need to reach 114 I think for the next one
The war quests have you set up a base camp in a zone of the enemy factiob
You need to select the zone on the bowy
lone charm
I did nazmir first, and then they stopped
dense plover
Did you finish Nazmir? Also, what lvl are you?
ruby star
Btw Is Allied races ( the 7.3.5 ones) heritage armour locked at unlocking at 110, or will it change to 120 in BFA pre patch or launch?
lone charm
I already lvl up 120, but no more quests
dense plover
Hmmmmmm
I’m gonna guess you didn’t finish Nazmir
Try going back there
And see if there are any quests
ruby star
Peach? do you know
west relic
It could bugged/broken.
It is a pre-release build after all.
That’s why they exist.
ruby star
Thulm do you know Is Allied races ( the 7.3.5 ones) heritage armour locked at unlocking at 110, or will it change to 120 in BFA pre patch or launch
west relic
Yes, all heritage armor will unlock at 120 in BFA.
ruby star
Thank you! So If I don't get to level 110 by the 18th, then I have to wait till BFA? to be able to get heritage armour
west relic
Yes, if you don’t hit 110 and unlock it by 8.0, then you’ll have to level to 120.
west relic
No problem.
uncut vault
wait, were the other four changed?
zealous basalt
Wait, wat
uncut vault
I only saw maghar and dark iron put to 120
ruby star
I'm a little disappointed blizzard has made 7.3.5 allied races requirement for armour going up to level 120
uncut vault
Im wondering where that was
restive sage
hopefully they take off the rep requirement
restive sage
yea
restive sage
-_-
viscid bobcat
Thank goodness, I'm level 100 HM tauren and was worried I'd have to wait lol
dense plover
Yeah they’re still 110
Essentially I think the decision is you have to reach max level of the expansion the race is from
I’m hoping they start at 30 instead of 20
But probably not
ruby star
I wonder if they'll remove the rep for the 7.3.5 ones? I won;t mind if they don't because I have them all apart from the cows
dense plover
I hope they remove the rep requirement but keep the story requirement
restive sage
yea the rep requirement on the ptr is gone
ruby star
agreed Peach
dense plover
I mean, aren’t they auto unlocked on ptr?
dense plover
Yeah then that’s not accurate
restive sage
it mite be
restive sage
maybe
hollow dock
But they didn't auto unlock the mag'har and DID
dense plover
They’re unlocked
restive sage
yea
hollow dock
Not on the PTR
restive sage
no they arent
dense plover
They’re just locked behind bfa not being unlocked on ptr
uncut vault
yeah because theyre not going to be out during the stuff tested on the ptr
they will be out during bfa
dense plover
^
hollow dock
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dense plover
they are unlocked requirement wise, but they’re locked expansion wise
hollow dock
As I said, wasn't sure if it was a PTR only thing
dense plover
Best way to check if it’s changing is to check the text for the banners and see if it’s changed
ruby star
So allied race rep requirement for 7.3.5 is not removed?
restive sage
we dont know yet
dense plover
Unknown
My guess is it won’t be removed with 8.0, but will be removed when bfa launches
But I imagine the story requirement will stay
ruby star
Let's hope so, for those who join in BFA
dense plover
It’s possible. If it doesn’t happen with bfa launch it could always arrive with a patch
ruby star
true
viral terrace
@dense plover Story requirement?
You mean doing that long ass Suramar quest chain?
rich apex
The only indication of requirements being removed is wishful thinking, so
jovial coral
Neat
dense plover
It’s not that long anymore tbh
It no longer requires rep
I’m only talking about the first part ofc
clever ember
I don’t think they’re going to remove the rep requirement for the legion allied races. Just like old school mounts that are locked behind rep. You gotta go back and grind out the rep if you want it. If people want it bad enough they’ll do it. The rep grinds aren’t that hard. Annoying, yes but not hard.
But we’ll see what BfA brings.
uncut vault
I think the problem is less that the reps are bad as a whole, more that the first two alliance ones are really goddamn annoying to get post-relevance
nightborne and highmountain rep are very easy to get nowadays
ruby star
^
uncut vault
as is 7th legion/honorbound in BfA
As well as Zandalari Empire and Proudmoore Admiralty, the likely zandalari/kul tiran reps, being built into the entire main zone
rich apex
I mean Army/Argussian gets like 3 or 4k per week just from the weekly invasion/argunite
Sure easier than farming ogre beads if they'd forced the TBC Nagrand rep to be relevant for the theoretical Outland Broken/Mag'har Allied Race 😛
restive sage
are they adding more genders in bfa
ruby star
No?
ruby star
There is only 2 genders
ruby star
^
uncut vault
Lets not get into that here
restive sage
they should add
zealous basalt
No need
restive sage
transgender guy and transgender girl as an option
zealous basalt
No fucking need
restive sage
what about
zealous basalt
The people of Azeroth don't have mental issues
restive sage
attack helicopter
uncut vault
<@&299347348847329281> please stop it before it starts
restive sage
😦
ruby star
Thats a SJW move
rotund sorrel
what
rotund sorrel
I think that if you want to think of a character in a certain way, you should be free to do so.
rotund sorrel
I'm reading the convo from above
restive sage
why it get so quiet
zealous basalt
Let's not head into that an switch topic right now
restive sage
im offended by the fact that you keep calling me someone im not
ive been in this discord server since before i got the game
rotund sorrel
I'm going to agree with the switch topic notion
terse patrol
@rotund sorrel This guy keeps making new accounts just to bring up controversial topics.
ruby star
^
terse patrol
Only to cause shitstorms.
restive sage
onyx can you tell him to stop calling me rys
rotund sorrel
I'd like both parties to stop and move on
restive sage
thnk u
grizzled sleet
@restive sage I know how you can get WoW 2
grizzled sleet
You can get it if you sleep on Nyalotha
restive sage
nyalotha?
grizzled sleet
hollow dock
It's the sleeping place of mad things. A city of old, terrible and unnumbered crimes.
restive sage
can you even go there in wow
grizzled sleet
Not yet
modest berry
So it's going to have a bunch of monsters we have already seen?
agile token
The city of nightmares
agile token
Things people get nightmares about
restive sage
you would have a nightmare if you saw this convo im having with someone on the ptr
hollow dock
Judging by the arguments you normally wage here, I feel for that perosn
zealous basalt
Topkek
night swift
🤔
restive sage
no
zealous basalt
So it's like erp
hollow dock
So if its like erp
zealous basalt
In the damn ptr
restive sage
somewhat
hollow dock
you're confirming this yourself
restive sage
no w8
hollow dock
so you're erping
zealous basalt
dab
hollow dock
PRIVATE SERVER DABS
restive sage
atleast ur not dabbing with fidget spinners in your hands
restive sage
OH GOD
hollow dock
Dabs with fidget spinners in their hands, and on their hat and glasses while screaming out Private server
restive sage
jeez
hollow dock
at least we're not erping on the ptr
restive sage
no
dense plover
You posted about this in multiple channels
restive sage
its not even rp
restive sage
what?
hollow dock
can we use this as evidence that they are intentionally attempting to start an argument?
dense plover
Stop talking to them vris
hollow dock
so they can be removed
dense plover
Maybe?
restive sage
all i said was i had a weird convo in wow in that channel
dense plover
I’m not gonna ping
restive sage
yes you did
dense plover
I’m not the one who said ‘I just had a weird wow convo’ in two separate channels in order to seek attention
restive sage
you came in here acting all serious
in order to seek attention???
Vris - Today at 9:43 PM
Judging by the arguments you normally wage here, I feel for that perosn
this is what was said after i said that
hollow dock
right Ima ping
<@&299347348847329281> Slayer has intentionally been posting around to get some reactions and is now causing some trouble. This is not the first time they've done this.
restive sage
lol
i litteraly just said that i had a weird convo on the ptr
and apparently theyre saying that i started an argument with that
when i said nothing after
thatis a complete assumption
rotund sorrel
hi guys, let's just keep this related to bfa
and related topics included in the title and channel description
thanks
restive sage
c:
tulip sun
I am so....i dont even know
limber vortex
Hey does anyone know if the Underlight Angler traits are still available to get on PTR/Prepatch? Not sure if its worth doing now or that I wont be able to get the traits before prepatch,
tulip sun
Reading some people in the forums
This orc complaining about the forsaken focused story, lol.
And not letting any other race have splotlight...
Uhhh, ya ok, sure
night swift
Lol go back to draenor then
tulip sun
Lets ignore the entire Zandalar island
And the nightborne/belf archaelogy quests
And the goblin focused azerite storyline
Orcs are still prominent in the War of Thorns
Undead in undercity
So....ya
But
These people make me feel bad for them
night swift
I’m surprised people aren’t like that with pandaren
They don’t show up a lot post MoP
night swift
Most pandaren also keep away from the main factions
Since most of them are from the turtle
tulip sun
Huojin and Tushui are small in the larger schemes of factions
But they still have appeared in roles somewhat, not forgotten
In BfA, Aysa and Ji are in their ports
night swift
Yeah Aysa and Ji are still relevant to the factions. They hang out in the embassy
tulip sun
And monks are in table mission troops
tulip sun
Pandaren also appear as generic faction warriors
night swift
Yep
tulip sun
They did get an entire expansion
night swift
Honestly I think the pandaren fans just take whatever rep they can get lol
tulip sun
More than most
night swift
Yeah I’m more talking about Post MoP though, so WoD and Legion
Then again Legion had some pandaren stuff. The whole monk class hall and story
And the troops for the mission table had pandaren, even guards on Broken Shore can be pandaren
tulip sun
In BfA, Huojin and Tushui monks are in their respective mission tables
night swift
Huh, they actually get more rep than I thought lol
night swift
Yeah all races are getting decent rep
tulip sun
As of San'lyn, i honestly see it happening
night swift
High Elves are inevitable
night swift
Either way one faction is gonna get another blood elf skeleton race
uncut vault
There could be others
As of now there aren’t
And the sanlayn have no impact besides killing three night elves
You can’t go saying high elves aren’t happening then say “those undead elves who are literally just a moral plot device for night elven Justice are totally an allied race”
tulip sun
I can say high elves are not happening because of what the head game developer or qhatever his title is, clearly stated: NO HIGH ELVES.
Sanlayn on the other hand had no such thing said about them, are relevant in the story and already work with the Horde.
They have a decent chance of being an allied race.
uncut vault
I mean. Aside the fact that at no point, literally ever, did Ion say no high elves, and in fact was the one to originally spark the idea for the system in WoD, there have been hard no’s and firm denials before.
Same guy that makes up the bulk of the Wall of No presented classic WoW
Vulpera still currently have a post addressing them saying that their customization is just for a more fleshed out npc race
tulip sun
I dont know how you heard what he said, but it sure was that high elves are not being added to the alliance to me. Want high elves go horde.
So as of now, no high elves.
uncut vault
Few key words you’re neglecting
But I’ve had this conversation of hypocrisy way too many times so I’m just gonna stop
urban dew
I mean, they also said no classic servers, no flying in WoD
tulip sun
HoA?
urban dew
Heart of Azeroth
dense plover
Yeah it’s a really high level cap
255 I think
Can’t be realistically grinder out though
zinc sandal
Is it purely for ilvl or? From what I've seen in beta, the max needed for traits is about 10? But idk
dense plover
Also, can we as a server decide to call is the heart instead of hoa? It’s less susceptible to autocorrect and easier to understand at a glance
Max needed for raids and stuff is 34
That’s the final tier cost for mythic raids or m+15
zinc sandal
Ahh okay
dense plover
For first patch
zinc sandal
So the other 200+ levels are purely for ilvl?
zinc sandal
Oh okay for first patch
dense plover
As patches go on, you’ll need higher level
zinc sandal
Mhm. Thank you!
zinc sandal
Sure
dense plover
HoA gets hurt by autocorrect and requires more brain power to identify
zinc sandal
Yes
dense plover
Maybe even start a shitty grassroots campaign
dense plover
A meme dispenser?
zinc sandal
Imagine "Serious game, Serious players" on top of a pic of Red Shirt Guy
is that fucked up?
Or maybe a female nelf dancing on top of a mailbox as the background
zinc sandal
I like it. Looks classy.
zinc sandal
fony
dense plover
Fony
zinc sandal
"But this... This is fony. You will die here."
dense plover
XD
tropic trail
I wonder about the Nightborne, what's the chance that they killed children?
junior geyser
Anyone know how war mode is going to be in BFA? does that mean no more ganking?
especially if people arent swtiched on for warmode
uncut vault
if the low level doesnt switch on war mode, they wont be ganked
junior geyser
jesus, there goes ganking in general
mint arch
not really
there is incentive to use war mode for leveling
the bonus
and with how SHIT level 60-80 is, u bet ppl are gonna use war mode while leveling
especially after the kara lvl 72-80 nerf -_-
terse patrol
60-80 is the literal worst
mint arch
indeed
terse patrol
Because nothing is balanced
terse patrol
struggle to kill a normal mob
mint arch
sigh
logic . gg
if ppl wanna level slower and experience the world, let em but dont punish those who want to fast level alts
heirlooms are a CHOICE
not forced, so why nerf em
terse patrol
i’ll tell you why
junior geyser
whats the benefits of war mode?
terse patrol
they’re selling boosts
junior geyser
do you get bonus exp or something
terse patrol
it wasnt a balance issue, it was a money gouge issue
mint arch
but thing is, why force allied races to have to level?
junior geyser
is that the only incentive? exp gain?
mint arch
ud think they'd let allied races boost and get the armor
ya, xp
of course
war mode allows u to use PvP talents in open world
terse patrol
Yes
mint arch
and remember, the buff
also means ull get 10% increased rewards from world quests as well
so more gold/AP
mint arch
- +10% experience boost while leveling.
- +10% World Quest reward bonuses at max level.
- Ability to earn Conquest Points, which count towards a weekly progress bar for special gear rewards.
Completion of PvP achievements.```ya, ganking
but if ur being camped or w/e
Bounty Hunting
is there
terse patrol
You also get a net gun to shoot players off mounts if theyre in war mode
mint arch
lol, ya
terse patrol
So that’ll be amusing
mint arch
and the air drops
gotta have teh battle royale feature~
but the drops should incentivize grouped pvp
and Dueler's Guild sounds cool
dense plover
Air drops only in BfA zones
mint arch
wish it was entire azeroth zones
mint arch
sure, but for the duration of BFA expansion
u can do it
and then next expansion just gotta change the crate loot
modest berry
Yes, it's an evergreen system, as blizzard would put it.
oak wraith
There is also the Warmode level scaling, so no idea if ganking lowbies will be a walk in the park 😋
zealous basalt
So?
dense plover
Which is nonsense
zealous basalt
Why do you want to gank a low level?
dense plover
Just disable war mode if you don’t want to be ganked
zealous basalt
Unless you are mentally brain, i can give you it
dense plover
I’m not promoting ganking
dense plover
Nope
Don’t play pvp at all
I just think the scaling pvp implementation was shitty
uncut vault
the scaling was fine, they just likely didnt have the time to fix the issues with it
zealous basalt
Then don't say anything, let the low levels be able to defend themselvse
dense plover
And their decision to remove it until they have something better was smart
Makore
I’m fine if they re add it eventually
It just sucked how it was implemented in beta
Blizz agreed
And scrapped it to continue working on it for the future
zealous basalt
I just want gankers to pay
dense plover
When that future implementation comes, I will be all for it
But I would rather wait to have a abalanced system instead of pushing out something shitty and frustrating
zealous basalt
You know what grind my gears
Those people that think that they know the game better than the developers themselves
zealous basalt
Says who
mint arch
lul, well lets point to wow devs here
and look at the legendary system of legion
and this is just one example
in many games, devs can make stupid decisions/wrong decisions
of course, majority of the time they do know what they are doing and are correct
but it is wrong to assume devs are 100% correct and fans are all dumb
Ion, game director, used to be such a fan
now he's game director
u just gotta ignore that spam and whiners/trolls
zealous basalt
My co guild master calls bullshit on some lore, ie the black dragon lore after I showed him the black dragon scale
sayying that blizzard doesn't know their own lore
uncut vault
I mean a lot of the time they dont know their existing lore
they remake it to suit the current story
uncut vault
most of legion was made out of a retcon. Doesnt mean it was bad, but it was the devs backtracking on existing lore for rule of cool
zealous basalt
I mean, if we were to remade the original lore
The nether wouldn't exist and instead there would be a hell
uncut vault
darkshore world quests is a 110 only thing
oak wraith
The tree is only going to burn for lvl 110+ characters
Lowbie Nelves and Forsaken will still level in Teldrassil/Undercity
tropic trail
too bad...
gaunt helm
Tmrw is Patch YAY
ruby star
UK is 6:00am, so I'd assume the EU it would be 7:00am or something
I believe france etc is 1hr ahead of us
but I'm not sure about EU people
tropic trail
how did you find info time?
craggy hearth
maintenance for live-realms is 2 am til 10 am servertime - talking bout pre-patch release
white turtle
How hard is it to switch between say a DH tank and a DH DPS in BFA? I know in Legion it took leveling up a whole artifact weapon and wasn't very easy early on. How is the gearing between tank and dps now?
ruby star
easy
I believe they made that much easier
as heart of azeroth stays the same level when you switch specs
unlike the legion artifact weapons
so it's quite spec friendly
white turtle
Thats quite nice to hear, thanks Drorith.
hollow dock
Yes it will drag
whenever they add in allied races, they add in that many slots.
2 more for Mag'har and DID, 2 more for KT and Zanda
hollow dock
and @white turtle we can't say the specific gearing paths just yet. Since tuning is still underway, I imagine that it won't be that much different from Legion's gearing
Again no official allied races after KT and Zandalar yet
just keep that in mind
ruby star
Ik, however we can assume they plan for a lot, I think @urban dew has a good theory on why
mint arch
🐍
urban dew
What's up? Was trying to fall asleep.
urban dew
Ah, yeah. Just a crazy speculation from me
ruby star
I mean it makes sense
urban dew
Yeah, it does to us. Others might see it otherwise.
hollow dock
Ion already made his stance on it
Feasibly, you aren't actually playing 50 characters. If you are, Ion would love to hear how you're pulling that off, and what not about extending the character slots
mint arch
ya
terse patrol
I think BFA will end with us getting an allied race for all of the base races.
hollow dock
I'm very doubtful of that.
mint arch
that might be too much
this isnt the "allied race" expansion per say
they can always add more allied races in other expansions
maybe one day we'll get a real proper race
or a new class
but thats dreaming too big, i know
cant even have a new talent row
urban dew
Kind of is the allied race expansion as they said they're going to slow way down after BfA
terse patrol
Well, I at least think we’ll get junker gnomes and san’layn maybe. They are both hinted at. But if we do get Vulpera, I think it’ll be the end of the expac
urban dew
I don't know why people keep saying that about Vulpera and Sethrak
Why do they have to be end of xpac?
Who said that we only get one AR pair per major content patch?
Because I doubt it was said anywhere, and the reason why KTs/Zanda release time is unknown is because they don't need to tell us about when ARs come out
ruby star
I mean we can assume each leader jn embassy is bringing in an allied race though they could easily add new leaders or change them
Or remove them
strange falcon
also San layn are unlikely because their blood prince dreven literally killed forsaken right after
ruby star
Didn't the alliance kill dreven?
strange falcon
still,goes to show they aren't trustworthy
tropic trail
i never understand why blizz keep new allied races to come. looks like they just copy of MOBA. many ppl love new races.
white turtle
Did I read it correctly that there will not be any random legendries in BFA?
hollow dock
The thing is
San'layn
aren't hinted at
for playability
just that they're in the horde.
Junker gnomes don't actually exist and are a fanmade idea based on the disappearance of some Kul Tiran gnomes and have used unused map tiles called 'Junker Gnome' as the moniker for them.
hollow dock
and yes Typed, there won't be random legendaries in BFA. they are replaced by Azerite armor pieces, which are basically legendaries, which can drop randomly from the emissary caches, but will also drop from specific dungeon and raid bosses as well as certain quests while leveling reward them
ruby star
Tbh High Elves are hinted at being playable sort of.
terse patrol
gnome junkyard, kul tiran gnomes mysteriously missing, haywire robots, preliminary quest looking for them
jade basalt
I think there's definitely something going on with a certain gnome population, whether they are actually called "junker gnomes" or something else. Dozens upon dozens of new assets, doodads and textures were made.. and they are only used in 1 place. That one place was the location of a former gnome facility, which you investigate thanks to another gnome. You find out the entire gnome population.. is gone. They all vanished. All that's left behind is their stuff, and a giant, locked door. The questline ends with him telling you he'll contact you when he finds more info.
The only other place these new gnome stuff is used is on a scrapped (apparently) island expedition called MechaGnomeIsland. Also another fun nod is that gnome dudette in Voldun saying it'd be nice if she could be half-mecha.
terse patrol
Totally, no reason to think this isn’t a build up for their introduction in another patch.
hollow dock
Now that I can concede to, Quiet.
ruby star
Perhaps they are all behind the locked door
terse patrol
And if we -do- get junker gnomes, the Horde needs a cooresponding race.
ruby star
Perhaps someone locked them in and genocided the gnomes
mint arch
speaking of gnomes, i like how sylvanas fanbois bring up "alliance attack goblin miners" ignoring how these "miners" attacked and killed the initial alliance expedition to silithus to learn about the giant fcking sword annnd kidnapped a gnome to design weapons for the horde
terse patrol
^
hollow dock
So very much, the horde instigated this war.
mint arch
and watch how if sylvanas wasnt responsible for world tree burning = forgives ALL her actions and past stuff
ruby star
What if the gnomes are actually Vault Tec 
and they are locked inside a vault and gnomergon was one the vaults
terse patrol
Thats why I suspect Sanlayn though, because they’d be a good allied race to correspond with Forsaken, if the alliance get junker gnomes
jade basalt
Regarding the San'layn, I guess it's a bit up in the air for the moment. When you look at it from a meta perspective : Legion had a short questline with a vampire vrykul turning people into vampires. Then BFA has the san'layn trying to join the Horde, and what is an allied race if not "a race that wants to join your faction" ? On the other end, the questline ends with.. their leader getting killed. So not sure how it could go from there, unless there's yet another bunch of San'layn guys who want to join 'because they heard of this guy's attempt" or whatever.. But also Sylvanas needs to stop allying with vampires, be they undead or demons, dang it. Also if she gets her own San'layn, that'd bring her one more step closer to the Lich Queen meme. So yeah, could go either way.
The only mystery in BFA really is Sylvanas, we already know everything that is going on and where they can lead, but Sylvanas' fate ? Unsure where they're taking her. Everything, literally everything, points to her being Garrosh 2.0. Even down to Horde leaders allying with the Alliance and stuff, or watching over her actions. But I can't believe we're just going to raid Orgrimmar again and depose yet another warchief. So I have to think they'll take her some place else (ascending into Kerrigan 2.0 ? getting redeemed ? dies in combat ? who knows !)
mint arch
here's the wall
imo, san'layn works for a 3rd faction
forsaken leave horde, go north
san'layn works there
jade basalt
The concept of Allied Race destroys the 3rd faction idea, really
mint arch
not really
ruby star
Theres Only one allied race I need
jade basalt
It entirely does. The point of a 3rd faction was to be able to play races that are not affiliated with either faction, or can't be. Instead they decided to make these races still playable, by having them join one of two factions.
mint arch
again, not really
ruby star
High Elves though Wildhammer and Broken and Frost Dwarves etc would be cool
jade basalt
We'll just "ally" with everybody so they can be playable.
The neutral Nightborne who were saved by both factions (the armies of which were 2/3 Alliance, 1/3 Horde) ? Well they were crammed into one of two factions because they needed to be playable, meaning they had to join either the Alliance or the Horde.
mint arch
you can make other races form a third faction
other allied races can join that faction
its not hard to make a 3rd faction work
jade basalt
There is no longer a need to. You can take any race and have them join a faction as an allied race.
mint arch
...
hollow dock
Well Quiet, I just have to point out that I don't think anything like that will happen to her.
mint arch
u get the point of a 3rd faction right?
jade basalt
Even if they're from an alternate dimension.
mint arch
its a faction of races that dont want to be horde/alliance
again, not hard to make work
jade basalt
The point of a 3rd faction was to be able to play races that are not affiliated with either faction, or can't be. Instead they decided to make these races still playable, by having them join one of two factions.
strange falcon
high elves In 2k18 🤔
hollow dock
If Before the Storm is any indication, she's ruling the horde as a totalitarian warchief.
mint arch
that is not the point of a third faction
hollow dock
Like garrosh, but unlike Garrosh, she's not pushing everyone out of orgrimmar.
mint arch
sure it may have been one part of it, but it wasnt just tht
jade basalt
It is.
Design > lore
The goal is to have playable races.
They no longer a 3rd faction for that.
They can just have any race become "playable" by turning them into "allied races"
jade basalt
What
ruby star
A 3 faction would require a lot of work to fit into the game
jade basalt
It's a game.. decisions are made for the game..
mint arch
design speculation
jade basalt
"game design"
mint arch
u can make w/e speculation u want
we wont ever know
point is, LORE wise, 3rd faction works and can be made to work
and hell, allied races design wise does not invalidate a 3rd faction
ruby star
Lore wise sure but you gotta think gameplay wise
mint arch
blizzard can make full races for the 3rd faction
terse patrol
Anyhow, its interesting that if they DO give Horde San’layn as a playable race, they just cement that the Horde is evil.
ruby star
Its too much work For Blizz
jade basalt
If decisions were driven by lore, we wouldn't have had allied races. And we wouldn't have had the Horde as an equal to the Alliance. And the Alliance would have wiped out the Horde long ago. And the infinite army of demons led by titans and possessing thousands of space-travelling spaceships wouldn't have been destroyed by 1 draenei ship.
mint arch
example: forsaken leave horde, form new faction and san'layn join em as a full race
there, design idea
mint arch
im not saying if that will happen
jade basalt
Huh.
mint arch
im giving u an example
jade basalt
I don't think you understand what any of this means.
mint arch
no mate
u dont
¯_(ツ)_/¯
ur acting like allied races means having a 3rd faction is impossible
im pointing out how lore wise and design wise, a 3rd faction can work
not that it will happen or w/e
jade basalt
You really don't have any grasp of the subject, that is made clear by this one sentence alone : "point is, LORE wise, 3rd faction works and can be made to work"
A faction is a gameplay element. You're saying that "lorewise, a third faction would work", but a third faction is a game design element.
And it's made even clearer with your "example" of having the Forsaken leave the Horde and join a 3rd faction..
ruby star
A new faction would mean revamping all the content and quests a lot of work
Too much work for blizzard
mint arch
jesus dude, im giving u an example on the spot of how a 3rd faction can work
jade basalt
That example fails at doing what it's supposed to do..
mint arch
what?
jade basalt
It's a very bad example that does not even work or help your point..
mint arch
in what way?
hollow dock
Saying what can work from a story perspective
doesn't mean it's a 1:1 ratio to what can work in game
mint arch
a faction, btw, is not just a design choice, it is also a lore choice
hollow dock
is what Quiet is saying. Your example is about the story.
mint arch
just fyi
hollow dock
Which isn't what drives WoW
mint arch
i know its BOTH
hollow dock
Gameplay drives WoW
mint arch
i said i know its both
mint arch
it is
hollow dock
it's not
terse patrol
Its totally not
mint arch
u need a 3rd faction to make sense in the story
jade basalt
We're talking about playable races, and thus playable factions, which is the entire idea behind the third faction that refers to a third playable faction not just some random lore faction like the Vulpera or Anglers or whatever.
This is a design decision.
mint arch
u cant just make up a 3rd faction out of the blue
hollow dock
You can though
mint arch
u will have to create a story
jade basalt
Lore may influence it. But it's a decision for the game.
mint arch
jesus, i know design choice, but again, how does allied races invalidate a 3rd faction?
terse patrol
You realize a Undead faction would just composed of recolors right
jade basalt
The point of a 3rd faction was to be able to play races that are not affiliated with either faction, or can't be. Instead they decided to make these races still playable, by having them join one of two factions.
terse patrol
“cool i get to play a zombie orc”
mint arch
instead of joining the horde/alliance, were made into a new faction
terse patrol
Stupid
mint arch
again, this is an example on the spot
jade basalt
Vulpera and Sethrak if they become playable will join the Alliance or the Horde. There is no need to join a third faction anymore, you can play them without a third faction.
mint arch
im just sayin,g ur acting like its impossible to have a 3rd faction
who cares about the need mate
jade basalt
It would be redundant and useless from a design perspective
jade basalt
No..
mint arch
yes, u are
u are denying the fact it could work as a 3rd faction
cause "useless"
im not saying its a GOOD example
jade basalt
It would be redundant and useless.
jade basalt
I guess we don't have the same definition of "work"
mint arch
we dont, clearly
terse patrol
You don’t understand the amount of time and money needed to do that would be way too much
Plus it would just sap membership numbers from the Horde.
terse patrol
It wont happen.
mint arch
not saying its perfect
but u cant deny the fact the a 3rd faction is entirely possible
lore wise and design wise
strange falcon
voidox has been corrupted and is trying to force his way into void lord faction
terse patrol
Possible maybe. Will it happen? No.
mint arch
who knows about happen
hollow dock
Did I read that right
mint arch
likely wont
hollow dock
what point is there to having a third faction if I may ask?
strange falcon
name something redundant and useless that worked and wasn't a failire
mint arch
sigh... my point is not the why
quiet was denying any possibility of a 3rd faction due to allied races, my point is that no, thats not true, its entirely possible to have a 3rd faction
would it make sense? who knows
terse patrol
Why are you arguing so hard for this.
hollow dock
It's also possible the game ends tomorrow
terse patrol
It will -never- happen.
hollow dock
Possibilities aren't a reason to argue
terse patrol
Don’t bother.
mint arch
lol
hollow dock
unless you have a point to argue
hollow dock
no one said that
terse patrol
Voidox is turning into Rys
hollow dock
You just said the point is that it's possible
but
that is completely irrelevant
Because anything is possible
jade basalt
A third faction would have been useful in order to play races that are not part of the Alliance and the Horde. Blizzard instead decided that they would just cram these playable races into these factions anyway. You can now play giant humans, orcs from another universe and night elves bis and void baelves without the need for a third faction. Hell, Blizzard had even tried a prototype of a "third faction" with Neutral Races (Pandaren.. who ended up joining one of two factions anyway), and didn't like it.
terse patrol
Lol
mint arch
lul
hollow dock
That's why a third faction is redundant and useless in the grand scheme of the game.
you can just consolidate it into the two factions. Because the game is driven by design, not lore.
Lore comes second
mint arch
sure
never said anything otherwise
but to act like its literally impossible (design wise) for a 3rd faction to happen xD
jade basalt
It's highly unlikely..
hollow dock
You had said not five minutes ago that it's driven by lore and design even though me and honk told you it's driven solely by what the developers want to do. (Game design) not what hte writers want to do. (lore)
mint arch
"Because the game is driven by design, not lore."
strange falcon
delusional voidox strikes again 
mint arch
i said lore and design are both involved
u need design choice
but u also need lore to make a BRAND new faction work
this is not an allied race
hollow dock
We had never said it's impossible. We said multiple times that sure it's possible. But it's also possible that WoW ends tomorrow
mint arch
quiet was saying that no, allied races makes it impossbile
hollow dock
and you said that's not the point
mint arch
to have 3rd faction
hollow dock
Allied races make having a third faction redundant and useless
the point of having a third faction would be
you play races not alliance or horde
hollow dock
that's the whole point of playing a third faction
playing races not horde or alliance
jade basalt
It's a design decision. Lore only supports/influences it.
You want a third faction, the question is not "does lore support it ?" Because 1) lore can be made up or modified on the spot 2) it's a game decision.
The question is. "do we have the resources ?" or "is it useful, why do we want that, why pour resources into that ?"
jade basalt
From a dev's pov.
hollow dock
but allied races kill that notion with the idea that you CAN make races that aren't aligned, aligned with one of the two factions
mint arch
and the answer to those questions, is not a 100% no
no one knows cept blizzard
just sayin~
tranquil steeple
of course they can, but do they benefit from it?
hollow dock
Of which, they really don't. They have teh allied race system which solves thsi idea of the third faction conundrum
jade basalt
They could do anything. But they won't do something pointless and/or redundant.
jade basalt
Why bother revamping the entire faction system when you can just have that race join the Alliance/Horde as an allied race ?
mint arch
¯_(ツ)_/¯
jade basalt
..
hollow dock
literally ANYTHING falls under these guidelines void
so why are you arguing so heavily for it
mint arch
allied races do not mean 100% 3rd faction is useless
hollow dock
Except that yes it does. We've shown you multiple times
mint arch
sigh
hollow dock
the point of having a third playable faction
mint arch
-_-
hollow dock
is to play races, not in the A or H
mint arch
do u read what i write? or just gonna repeat the "whats the point" part
hollow dock
Your point is that it could happen
it's possible
sure. w/e
anything falls under that
that's not really valid to push an argument
strange falcon
voidox last stand
jade basalt
Easy : why should Blizzard pour their resources into making a third game faction ?
strange falcon
his mind is clouded by the VOIDox and he fails to see the truth
hollow dock
I've said your point multiple times.
ruby star
A 3rd faction would spread the player base out too much
hollow dock
Not even Dror
Players and the willingless to play this third faction are irrelevant to this discussion
mint arch
indeed
jade basalt
Hell Blizzard will even tell you that Warcraft is about the Alliance and the Horde, not some random. 😛
And they sure won't take the Forsaken out of the Horde and into a third faction !
strange falcon
the only plausible reason for a third faction would be if they did a WoW 2
leaden bloom
I hope in reality when you boost a char it does more damage. I took a warlock and my max damage is 80 ilvl 185 but lvl 110 . 😃 lol
tranquil steeple
WoW at this point is so established as "Horde and/or Alliance vs bad guys, or eachother" that a 3rd faction would essentially be... the bad guys.
hollow dock
it doesn't Norie. You just need gear.
mint arch
get the evil faction some ppl want
hollow dock
Horde already is that faction
mint arch
horde can go back to what it was with thrall
mint arch
its why i brought up the forsaken example, forsaken are evil and never really worked as a horde race
tranquil steeple
Horde bias btw
mint arch
then the vampire elves
jade basalt
No, you see, the bad guys will (optional : redeem themselves first) join one of two factions in order to fight against the other one. Because everything needs to fit into either the Alliance or Horde boxes !
Example : eredar
Blood elves kind of
Worgen !
terse patrol
Can’t see how they’d make the San’layn redeemed.
mint arch
they cant
hollow dock
they can
terse patrol
They’re worse than Forsaken.
jade basalt
Worgen have always been hostile mobs. Hey but what if these worgen were not. Boom, new race.
hollow dock
that's the point of game design over lore.
mint arch
good game design though?
terse patrol
@jade basalt The difference was, old worgen were feral
mint arch
no
terse patrol
Not evil
hollow dock
Yes because blizzard does good game design
jade basalt
Yes.
mint arch
forcing shit is bad game design
terse patrol
San’layn are straight evil.
jade basalt
Worgen have always been hostile mobs. Hey but what if these worgen were not. Boom, new race.
hollow dock
Worgen are bad game design 🤔 Blood elves are bad game design 🤔 Night Elves are bad game design 🤔
mint arch
blizzard does not always make good game design
ruby star
Blood Elves are the worst
hollow dock
There's so many forced things in the game Void. WoW by definition is just forced.
tropic trail
well it seems like blizzard designs wow been update. i mean looks like they hired overwatch deisgner into WoW
mint arch
sure
ruby star
Blood elves were forced into the hord3
mint arch
doesnt make that shit good design
hollow dock
So WoW is bad game deisgn by your logic 🤔
jade basalt
San'layn have always been bad guys. Hey, but what if these ones were not ? (they were enslaved, or they fled the Lich King long ago and only dared venture into the world now, or they were recently created : some San'layn recently turned humans into vampires, like how that vrykul turned pirates into vampires, whatever really) Boom, new race.
tropic trail
well it is too much better design than SWTOR 😛
mint arch
game design is a broad ass term
hollow dock
It's not
mint arch
and i didnt go into any detail
hollow dock
There really aren't
mint arch
doing one bad decision in one particular thing
does not mean the ENTIRE game design is bad
jade basalt
You think about the game first :
- Devs decide they want to have playable vampires.
- Then some people make up some (usually flimsy and unsatisfying) reason why they joined [faction name].
hollow dock
Since yoru topic was specifically on forced races are bad game design
I listed off three races
that are forced into factions
strange falcon
is that void elves @jade basalt
jade basalt
@strange falcon I would have taken San'layn over Void elves any time..
terse patrol
Except we see how the San’layn operate under Sylvanas in BFA. They’re cut throat, brutal creatures.
Completely evil.
jade basalt
Like the Forsaken ?
jade basalt
Good fit !
hollow dock
that's the point of WoW
terse patrol
They’re worse than the Forsaken.
jade basalt
Not really
terse patrol
San’layn require harming others, thus their main drive is to consume blood.
mint arch
ya, they could do that vris
terse patrol
Forsaken don’t.
jade basalt
And Forsaken don't require harming others ?
mint arch
that would be a poor game design choice
terse patrol
They don’t.
hollow dock
It'd be a bad STORY CHOICE but the game design would be pretty damn solid
ruby star
High Elves are the supreme elf race
hollow dock
Implimenting and designing the race would be quality.
It's not
it's really not
the devs choose first
mint arch
its one part of game design
hollow dock
not the writers
hollow dock
It really isn't
hollow dock
Again
if it were
How would 1 draenei ship
take down an infinite army
Riddle me that batman
mint arch
why are u talking in-game lore?
jade basalt
Honestly Honk, I won't argue over this. Sylvanas didn't seem to have much qualms with recruiting San'layn to serve her. She did not think they were "too evil". Having to drink blood is not as big a flaw as you make it seem to be specially from the point of view of people who need to enslave or raise dead people for their population to grow or even just to remain constant.