it was slow
#beta-ptr-spoilers
jade basalt
Yes.
frozen dust
If they're feeling kinky
jade basalt
Well, the AU ones.
Lightbound Warpriest, Lightbound Vigilant, Lightbound Warframe, Lightbound Dragoon, etc. All draenei.
Lightbound = orcs and draenei, not just orcs.
http://bfa.wowhead.com/npc=141167/lightbound-dragoon#modelviewer:10+0
sharp bluff
Lightforged are those who havn't gone crazy yet, Lightbound are crazy with light (power) and no one to use it on
š¤·š» at least that is how I see it
jade basalt
Nah they are just separate organizations, they are not "stages of evolution". One group is cool, the other group thinks they have to convert the orcs in order to stop them from ruining the planet.
sharp bluff
If you say so
mint arch
@hollow dock ur being challenged
jade basalt
Yeah but it was confusing, the dialogue kind of sounded like "Lightbound" only referred to the orcs, but the truth is that it refers to the entire organization, including Yrel, the draenei, and the orcs.
hollow dock
Yea. That's what I thought as well. O.o especially since they look like Lightforged and all that goodness.
jade basalt
Blizzard just is not subtle in their endeavor. In order to make the Light and the Void grey, they need to show the Void can be (used for) good (Void elves, Alleria), and that the Light can be (used for) bad. The thing is that they're really hammering the latter in. Now suddenly we only encounter crazy zealot naaru instead of, you know, every single other naaru we have ever met that has only acted for good. Unless the AU naaru are/is just AU Xe'ra, in which case it'd still be only 1 naaru that is zealotous, but I'm not sure we have a name for the naaru behind the Lightbound yet ?
uncut vault
There are multiple
jade basalt
Yeah. I think I heard O'ros once, but I'm not sure.
uncut vault
Orcs talk about how more naaru came to Draenor
jade basalt
They said "their naaru masters".
uncut vault
So itās more than Kāara
Which, even if it was just Kāara, not unreasonable for her to want to convert the orcs
frozen dust
SoA?
mint arch
@jade basalt completely agree
frozen dust
Also Grom says something about how the Light is killing Draenor, right?
Do we actually see that happening?
uncut vault
Both sides believe the other is killing the planet
frozen dust
And one has precedence for doing it
zealous basalt
I think he meant like
frozen dust
Sooooo... sorry Hellscream
zealous basalt
In a spiritual way
hollow dock
whoever was responsible for that, either side blames the other.
The duality I see is that the Lightbound are essentially what the Horde was in our timeline. (Even with the Lightbound Orcs acting like the Fel Orcs)
jade basalt
I don't remember the orcs blaming the draenei for the death of life, I think it was the other way around
There's even dialogue from Mag'har NPCs about how the orcs killed all the [either Primals or Breakers, can't recall]
hollow dock
Oh I was right in my original theory then
the Botani are hunted down by the Orcs
Draenei wipe out the Gronn
sharp bluff
think of it like this, know what fell did to Argus turned it green? AU Dreanor is gonna become a bright starlike thing (probably)
zealous basalt
...I didnt expect this but it is really interesting
mint arch
why would light destroy a planet?
sharp bluff
Light, Fel, Void, they infect, yes they can be used for both good and evil, but when it comes down to it, they consume hosts and turn them
zealous basalt
This is to show us
hollow dock
If you change something, you 'destroy' it from the perspective of those who hate the change
I.E. the orcs
mint arch
ur ignoring the nature of the thing, good and bad is fine and all
mint arch
fel, as a force, is destructive and corrupting
hollow dock
it can be focused for good or evil. Destroy or healing
languid yoke
the same way void infuses a planet with void energy and essentially turns the planet into void, the light turns a planet into a barren clump of light metal
mint arch
so itd make sense to do the same to a planet's surface
frozen dust
So Life would just be, like, cancerous? Making everything grow until it's completely unsustainable?
That'd be interesting
zealous basalt
It happened with Draenor
languid yoke
^
zealous basalt
Until Aggramar landed and was like
hollow dock
Light as a force is just as destructive and addicted.
zealous basalt
"Hold up what the heck is going on"
And that was because Draenor doesnt have a titan
hollow dock
And just like fel can heal at a price, Light can as well. So can void.
zealous basalt
So the element Spirit grew out of bonds along death
hollow dock
Again, the equalizing of these powers has always been in this lore
hollow dock
just now they're focusing and clarifying it
zealous basalt
Balance
mint arch
light, by nature, is not corrupting or destructive in a physical sense, u can say its blinding and changing
zealous basalt
Blinding until it turns you into a zealot
mint arch
but to say that light would make a planet a barren... w/e is wrong
hollow dock
We're not tho
mint arch
someone did
hollow dock
you're making that assumption
mint arch
the same way void infuses a planet with void energy and essentially turns the planet into void, the light turns a planet into a barren clump of light metal
hollow dock
I mean
zealous basalt
Never seen what could Light at high amounts can do
frozen dust
Because it's too bright to see WAKA WAKA
hollow dock
that is destroying the planet
sharp bluff
Fel breaks planets, Void breaks planets, light breaks planets (probably), we have seen the void and fel planets, but only Alleria has seen the light one
zealous basalt
They are energies
From their own stuff
But the 'nature' we are talking about
Might be the personalities behind
Void lords and naaru
sharp bluff
And nature, uh, finds a way ( š )
mint arch
the beings of light, void, fel, arcane, w/e
ya, they can use that force for good or evil
hollow dock
so can the energy itself void
mint arch
but i still disagree with ppl who say that light itself, the force/energy, is corrupting or destructive
hollow dock
You admitted yourself that it is
Blinding, turning you into a zealot
hyes
that's corruptive
mint arch
i was just looking for words
i meant blinding as in literally blinding
xD
i was talking in physical sense
zealous basalt
We saw Turalyon getting blinded by light
mint arch
not by light, by the naaru
hollow dock
Light can corrupt just as Fel, Void, even Arcane can.
mint arch
naaru used the light
zealous basalt
(The golden eyes when Xera appear)
mint arch
one sec, phone, brb 2 min
hollow dock
Yes by the Light void. The Light is an ENERGY. it has no mind of its own.
It has no feelings, thoughts or emotions
it is a tool
jade basalt
Honestly, any force/magic can be corruptive and destructive. You can use magic for good, or for evil. You can do good stuff with Arcane, or bomb Stormwind. You can serve the Light in a good way, or enslave people. You can use the Void to blow people's minds and rip them apart, or save your friends. So on.
hollow dock
that's it
zealous basalt
Balance is the keyword
hollow dock
Light, Void, Arcane, Death, Life, Fel. These are all just magic energies of the universe. It doesn't choose how to affect you
You choose how it affects you
jade basalt
So the Light is not inherently bad, or good. It does tend to be used for good. But you can also use it for bad. It's just that people usually have different perspectives on good and bad (see Scarlet Crusade for ex.).
grizzled sleet
As a guardian druid, using a staff or double fist weapons on BFA is giving the same stats numbers. But using double fists allow me to use 2 weapons enchants right?
grizzled sleet
Okay
hollow dock
You're only using a staff. For now and forever.
grizzled sleet
hollow dock
also
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FOR USING A BASE NAARU SKIN AND NOT TELLING US WHICH NAARU THIS IS BLIZZARD
grizzled sleet
Do you guys want fel exposed elves ?
Well if you want fel elves, the Demon Hunters are waiting for you
jade basalt
Dang it
grizzled sleet
grizzled sleet
frozen dust
grizzled sleet
Corrected 
hollow dock
elfs
frozen dust
Around elfs watch yourselfs
pallid trellis
Hi guys, I just saw that the Mole Machine of the Dark Irons was modified and can now transport you to the Shadowforge ciry, but don't remember seeing news about it, was it added in the last patch ?
tulip sun
Yya
mint arch
Light, Void, Arcane, Death, Life, Fel. These are all just magic energies of the universe. It doesn't choose how to affect you
ahhhh, but its not about choice
of course the energies themselves aren't sentient
but u do know how death or fel will affect you
and ya, u can use any energy how u want to an extent
but my point is, if u had a handful of fel and "used it" = ur gonna be negatively affected it w/e way
mint arch
lol, no its not
hollow dock
Yes it is
mint arch
u think having a handful of "death" energy is somehow good?
that itll be positive reaction?
mint arch
lol, no
raw trail
what is good or bad depends on the point of view
hollow dock
that's literally what necromancers are
mint arch
if u saw at energy bolt made of DEATH = its gonna fck u up
hollow dock
Yes because objectively IT IS ENERGY BEING USED TO ATTACK.
That's good for who was using it
bad for who it was used against
frozen dust
If there was something inside of me what needed getting out I wouldn't mind having some death energy pointed at it
mint arch
death lazor
hollow dock
Our point is that Light, just like any other energy in the universe, can be corruptive to its users
mint arch
i disagree with that
i agree that u can use the light to corrupt ppl
use of light for bad has been done
ppl use the light to brainwash or w/e ppl to follow them
mint arch
let me finish pls
hollow dock
[10:55 AM] voidox: i agree that u can use the light to corrupt ppl
this is literally
hollow dock
all we have been saying
mint arch
im saying is that while you can USE the light to corrupt ppl, the light ITSELF is not a force of corruption... im talking about the energy light
the VOID as an energy is corruptive
hollow dock
No energy is a force of corruption. =/ It cannot choose how it affects you. YOU choose how it affects you
Look at Alleria. She absorbed a void being
but she is uncorrupted
Hell her eyes didn't even change to purple
mint arch
cause she is resisting the corruption
but the void as an energy, when u absorb it, it wants to corrupt you
mint arch
we have seen on argus, beings that used the void and led to madness and w/e
you cant control/resist
u fall
hollow dock
We've seen that since cataclysm
mint arch
to the void
hollow dock
if you can't resist the VOID LORDS you fall to the Void
hollow dock
As again, we keep saying this time and time again, VOID IS JUST AN ENERGY
mint arch
just an energy -_-
hollow dock
Like any other, it can be harnassed to do anything.
mint arch
so the energy has no theme or power or nature or anything
all the forces of energy are just... out there
waiting for beings to use them
hollow dock
No energy does. They await usage of us or other beings as the conduits.
mint arch
lol, wut?
hollow dock
Light cannot heal by simply existing
it requires someone to focus it into a heal
Void cannot corrupt, that's the void lords extending their influence outwards towards those that dabble in void
mint arch
thing is, we dont know anything about the void lords
so we cant say if they are just the void itself or beings using void or what
mint arch
well, ya
hollow dock
trying to corrupt our universe
that they are ACTIVE in trying to corrupt us
So yes
we know its them
mint arch
sure
tulip sun
Is this the same argument as yesterday, lol?
mint arch
the Light and the Void, they are simply primal forces with their morality characterized by how they are wielded
i agree with this, and i know its part of ur point
BUT (let me finish pls)
mint arch
im trying to break it up
ah fck it, ill just type a paragraph
The Light is the source of all life in the cosmos, its positive energies, residing in every living being, in every heart and soul, is everywhere, binding all sentient beings together as one - from the wiki so imma just use it
its been hinted (in the past) at thriving on healing, benevolence and compassion
the light itself, will never corrupt
as a force, its has a "theme"
that is the light, same as the void has a "theme", fel, death, arcane, so on
NOW
yes, beings can USE the light to do bad shit, im not disagreeing
but i find that ppl saying light = corruption/zealots/w.e is just wrong
tulip sparrow
can someone point me to an article that lists the possible azerite sources?
still lily
Light = Anduin baby face
mint arch
some ppl are saying, the light "demands obedience/w.e"
still lily
O3O
mint arch
again, ignoring its the BEING using the light demanding that
still lily
A being of pure light demanded it from Illidan
Just uh
Pointing that out
The embodiment of light demanded it
mint arch
no
mint arch
ok, so we're changing the subject here, but fine, the naaru are BEINGS of light
they are not the light itself
hollow dock
Just like the Void Lords are manifestations and embodiments of the Void Energies they control, the Naaru are manifestations and embodiments ofLight
mint arch
and this was ONE naaru showing this behaviour
still lily
The very literal definition of living light*
hollow dock
One more:
still lily
Light personified
hollow dock
Locus Walker
sharp bluff
I'm not saying I disagree with you voidox, but that leaves me with a question for you then, The curse of flesh was created by an old god which turned constructs to living flesh beings, but the old gods are not beings of light, how would that work
mint arch
The naaru (pronounced ['na:ru]) are a race of living, sentient energy beings[1] made up of shards of fractured Light. They are perhaps the purest expression of the Holy Light that exists in the Great Dark Beyond, and have vowed to bring peace and hope to all mortal civilizations and waylay the forces of the Void.
the are beings
hollow dock
"The Light sees 1 path and sees all others as lies, the void sees all paths as possible truths."
mint arch
yes, they represent the purest form of light
mint arch
and we see how naaru are GOOD
hollow dock
THAT'S EMBODIMENT
mint arch
true
still lily
Just straight dicks
hollow dock
Fallen naaru are just void lords waiting to happen
mint arch
the naaru are not the embodiment of the light, the light is not a thought/feeling/idea or w.e
hollow dock
and dont forget the naaru that spurred
ya know
the lightbound movement
wanting to convert everyone
mint arch
Not all naaru necessarily have the same motives. They have their own personalities and own goals. Xe'ra and her difference from other naaru the players have met is an example of this.
hollow dock
that the players have met
mint arch
we dont know any real details about the lightbound movement
hollow dock
we have distinct evidence that there are others, maybe multiples, that send the Draenei onto their conversion spree. Which got the orcs and that stuff
mint arch
which naaru? why? how?
still lily
Let's also be aware that the light doesn't have a binary spectrum within itself either*
hollow dock
We know it was more than 1 Naaru that started the movement
mint arch
thats fine
someone mentioned before in the chat
blizzard are using the AU draenor to show the "greyness"
hollow dock
As again. Light is, and always has been, about control. We constantly get reaffirmations of this.
hollow dock
facedesk
mint arch
facedesk
mint arch
LOL
tulip sun
Guys
hollow dock
there's no telling you how the canon has been going
mint arch
fck it
tulip sun
Is this teldrassil stuff on PTR or beta?
hollow dock
Im not
I'm
really
not
I am speaking of the Light. The energy. the force. The naaru are the REPRESENTATIONS of that.
We've actually argued about this before. On if more naaru exist that share Xe'ras philosophy
mint arch
i dont care about the naaru, the naaru can be evil beings that corrupt the world, so be it
mint arch
-_-
...They are perhaps the purest expression of the Holy Light that exists in the Great Dark Beyond...
there do not represent the light
hollow dock
EMBODIMENT. Expression. all of this is to REPRESENT the light
Do you not understand
how english works
mint arch
they are beings of light that use the light however they want
still lily
Uhh I think you might be twisting meaning simply because it's not entirely hamfisted void
Although it's pretty hamfisted rn
terse patrol
p sure weāre going to see Yrel and crew arrive on Azeroth in a similar ship to Tempest Keep and be like āthis titans ours now the naaru said soā
hollow dock
Are the naaru even aware of the titans?
terse patrol
yes
hollow dock
when they'd interact cuz that's news to me
wait no
sargeras
nevermind
Im retarded
hollow dock
Brains a little short cuz of Void
hollow dock
My question will be restated then:
hollow dock
Are the naaru aware of Azeroth's titan soul?
mint arch
Expression
means
representing```
lol, no expression does not literally mean representwat
zealous basalt
Gfdi gamma
hollow dock
Where is that said/eluded to?
For reference in future arguments
Yes it does void
To express something
to show an expression of something
hollow dock
is to represent it through symbols
mint arch
look it up
the naaru express the light != represent the light
cause represent also has meanings
u refuse to separate the naaru from the light itself
and are saying that the naaru ARE the light itself
therefor if the naaru are corrupting = light is corrupting
terse patrol
Anyhow. I think once the Light vs Shadow stuff really starts kicking off, Yrel and crew will arrive.
Mrpeach seems to think weāll never see them again.
Which imo is nonsense.
mint arch
?
hollow dock
An expression is an act, process, or instance of REPRESENTING in a medium (such as words): utterance, something that manifests, EMBODIES, or SYMBOLIZES something else
uncut vault
New stalemate duel in BfA, disc priest vs fury warrior
hollow dock
Oh god really?
uncut vault
Neither of us went below 60% health before we healed to full
hollow dock
is disc that self-sufficient now?
tranquil steeple
terse patrol
Disc is kindA OP
uncut vault
Damn impossible to break through absorbs without cds
terse patrol
I only level as disc
terse patrol
The damage is good, and the self heals are better
hollow dock
thank god I don't PVP
uncut vault
Fury does a crazy amount of healing
hollow dock
its the new Blood vs Vengence
terse patrol
Weird that warrior has self heals
hollow dock
bloodthirst has always been the bread and butter of self heals Honk o;
terse patrol
just feels weird
still lily
Man when can we get a class that just eats people
I mean feral bites and scratches
But I want to eat people
mint arch
alright, so "something that manifests, embodies, or symbolizes something else" fair enough, we can say that naaru represent the light
terse patrol
but ye, they added Yrel as a HOTS hero, so sheās clearly in Blizzās mind. Sheāll probably return at some point, and theyāll release a Lightforged skin for her to match.
Also can we stop talking about representation and the light, that shits boring
frozen dust
As long as it's better than her fucking Harley Quinn skin
zealous basalt
Unique and different girl*
frozen dust
You're right that was silly of me
terse patrol
mfw yrel wont be as thicc as she is in HOTS
zealous basalt
Meh
zealous basalt
Just like Alexstrasza
hollow dock
since theyre basically tieflings
zealous basalt
The long tails?
terse patrol
Yes
mint arch
lol, but my point still stands in that naaru are not the light itself, what beings that represent the light can do does not reflect what the light itself is
zealous basalt
Think they forgot the on switch?
tulip sun
I WANT MY LONG TAILS
zealous basalt
We Spanish people have the RAE
mint arch
sigh.... light and naaru are separate, you can say the naaru "speaks for the light" but again, naaru can think for themselves and do what they want
i understand what represent means, i get it
strange falcon
@zealous basalt we also have something like that in italy š¤
mint arch
but the naaru are not the light itself, the force/energy has the traits and nature i detailed before.... corruption is not one of them
near cosmos
"represent" can have multiple meanings
A congressman can represent their constituents, but they are not their constituents
terse patrol
ahem
mint arch
it references the chronicle, but imma have to get my volume to see the exact words
terse patrol
The Void Lords represent the Void just as the Naaru represent the Light.
Naaru become Void Lords, Void Lords become Naaru.
Some Void Lords are stronger than others.
near cosmos
but I mean, if every single naaru in the cosmos was destroyed same way Xe'ra was, the Light itself wouldn't die I don't think
zealous basalt
Vicious cycle you can say.
terse patrol
I assume Dimensius used to be a Prime Naaru.
near cosmos
If the Light is a force in the cosmos then even destroying embodiments of it wouldn't remove the force from existence
mint arch
the light and void are the two opposing energies of the universe
one cannot exist without the other
terse patrol
Imo, this is how it works.
mint arch
the beings that represent them can all die
but the light/void itself wont
ever
we dont really know if the void lords ARE the void itself, or beings of the void
The void lords are monstrous entities composed of pure shadow energy who dwell within the Void, outside the borders of reality.
dwell within is vague as hell
near cosmos
if they dwell within the void they cannot possibly be the void itself
as you don't live within yourself
mint arch
i agree
terse patrol
Quiet a sec
mint arch
sry
near cosmos
ur not my mum
terse patrol
The Light spreads itself across the cosmos, expending energy in the process like a lightbulb. When it runs out of energy like we see with Naaru, they become Void.
However
Void consumes, gaining energy in the process. Once it reaches a certain point, it becomes Light again.
And the cycle continues.
tulip sun
Guys, stop. New topic please
terse patrol
We see it firsthand.
mint arch
The Void (also referred to as Shadow)[1][2][3] and the Light are the most fundamental forces in existence. Although contradictory by their very nature, they are bound together on a cosmic scale. One cannot exist without the other. Pure Light and Shadow dwell in realms outside the borders of reality.
terse patrol
The Conclave pumps Saraka full of Light, turning her back into a Naaru.
terse patrol
I think that Sargeras, in a way, was simply halting the natural cycle.
hollow dock
The cycle of nature.
mint arch
.....Void, which was born from the absence of the former.
hollow dock
Light destroys the shadow only to fall and be consumed by it only to break free once more.
near cosmos
I don't really believe the void "gains energy", as the only time Ive ever seen a naaru turn back to the light was when it was filled not with any energy, but specifically light energy
hollow dock
but his actions were placing a halt to the cycle
terse patrol
Sargeras thinks heās doing the right thing.
mint arch
void is the "absence" of light
zealous basalt
The first sin
mint arch
i dont think the void lords using old gods to corrupt a titan/planet is part of a cycle of some kind
hollow dock
it is. The cycle is that they keep beating each other for all eternity.
terse patrol
Iām just curious what Blizzard wants to achieve with the ending of WoW though. If this cycle is inevitable, everyone dies, and then the universe is reborn.
hollow dock
Shadow consumes everything only to clash with Light once more
mint arch
the void lords vs naaru is a cycle of fighting and w/e
hollow dock
and thus create a new universe
hollow dock
that's the basic concept of the 'Light vs Darkness' trope
terse patrol
So, maybe using Time magic, the people of Azeroth can be transported to a safe point after the next culmination of the Cycle.
mint arch
but ya, its a cycle of without light = void, with light = light
still lily
That sounds reasonable
terse patrol
(Kinda like what happens in Warhammer End Times lmao)
mint arch
oh pls no
near cosmos
or FFXIV
terse patrol
haha
mint arch
though age of sigmar is better now
near cosmos
they also did some time magic teleportation shit
mint arch
i still prefer the old world lore
zealous basalt
So
hollow dock
or mass effect. or dark souls. or any fantasy/sci-fi setting that uses this trope
terse patrol
I think weāre going to see the loss of the planet of Azeroth eventually.
zealous basalt
Killing Dankegeras is the key to link the fire?
hollow dock
no
zealous basalt
Or come with the dark age?
near cosmos
I wouldn't mind a WoW 2 with all your characters and progress continued, with a brand new engine and a brand new world or even a brand new timeline
mint arch
they'll never do WoW 2
hollow dock
they wouldn't transition your characters into a new game Bel
terse patrol
Not unless MMOs become a big thing again*
mint arch
too much time/money/resources to justify in a dead market
WoW survives cause we are around for so many years
near cosmos
the only real reason I say that is because Im a graphics whore to the point where I'll probably make warlock my caster main in bfa because shiny
zealous basalt
Ng+
terse patrol
Blizzard will always make new Warcraft games though
zealous basalt
Without Ring of Artorias
hollow dock
yea theyre called expansions
terse patrol
I mean post-WoW
near cosmos
in reality its unlike to be such a thing as post wow, isnt EQ1 still getting expansions
and half of you fucking nerds werent even alive when that game launched
mint arch
wow will go on as long as ppl buy it
mint arch
i can only hope there will be an expansion where the fundamental basics of wow be changed up
for example, adding in combo skill system
near cosmos
Ill accept that only if they go the GW2 route and not the FFXIV route, I fucking hate combo skills in XIV
mint arch
i hope that next xpac after BFA, we get smart A.I everywhere
and dynamic content of islands for questing and leveling
mint arch
u can tune the A.I
mint arch
but imagine dungeons and raids with smarter bosses
mint arch
and smarter trash
hollow dock
that's not how the AI works. All that really happens is that the NPCs move out of AOEs and
interupt every now and then
zealous basalt
Imagine
near cosmos
heres a radical idea; how about normal/heroic difficulty for the entire world
so if you turn on heroic difficulty for the open world, the smart AI engages when you're about doing WQs and shit
mint arch
the challenge for tank would be to regain focus
hollow dock
to much is out of the players control
hollow dock
tho
zealous basalt
Give him a PvP AI
near cosmos
but the most radical feature they could ever add: have casters use their weapons for casting
hollow dock
You'd have to make it like it is now
you can't have it randomly swapping aggro without a mechanic
Like they do for artifact abilities
?
mint arch
aggro is just one thing, its not the only thing u can improve on
hollow dock
ignoring that most casters in WoW generally don't actually use it
mint arch
and u can give players the tools to handle it
still lily
That annoys me so much
hollow dock
cuz you're just saying a lot of vague ifs
near cosmos
Ive not played every class extensively but aye, I mean if you had fireballs coming out of your staff instead of hand wiggling Id be happy
still lily
They just have a staff on their backs
still lily
For the sake of having a staff
mint arch
well, im not a game designer, i was just throwing out ideas as examples
hollow dock
how the boss focuses the group
that's it.
Im no game designer either, I just know how blizzard designs their game
I think fireballs coming out of the staff is stupid looking
mint arch
which is why i said: "i hope blizzard makes changes in future expansions"
hollow dock
But which ones Void
near cosmos
ur face
hollow dock
because I might just go and suggest them onto the forums
zealous basalt
KEK
hollow dock
cmon elaborate D=
near cosmos
I want to use weapons when casting
mint arch
i mentioned island tech for normal questing, leveling.... dynamic content like open-world group content that scales to player numbers
near cosmos
you mean Sass Elemental?
hollow dock
They did try that second bit actually, Void.
near cosmos
every world boss scales to player number
hollow dock
Scaling world content was heavily disliked.
mint arch
smart A.I in the sense of say: "if boss had a mechanic to interrupt key player abilities, so u have to co-ordinate cd"
hollow dock
Bosses already have that at times Void. o;
mint arch
was it?
hollow dock
Like shouts would interrupt
mint arch
scaling world content i mean, that say 5 ppl are around
hollow dock
so you'd have the raid stop casting
mint arch
then the mobs scale to 5, if 10 are around, scale to 10
hollow dock
right I know what you're meaning. Just people didn't like that they weren't three shotting things
that were like
around Highmountain
mint arch
in open-world content i mean
hollow dock
in Argus gear
mint arch
hmm
zealous basalt
No plox
mint arch
anyone played warhammer online? they had a grouping open world system
zealous basalt
Hogger was a bitch
mint arch
that scaled to number of players around it
i think that's a great idea that blizzard can use
hollow dock
When thinking of the scaling, one has to consider how the power creep works.
bad internet
don't send my messages all mixed up
mint arch
i mean, open world content is always gonna be easier
and the warhammer system scaled down to 1 player as well i believe
so if 1 dude was around, it was like a normal quest
with rares
and a boss at end
zealous basalt
Unless you want it to be like Dark Souls
hollow dock
I've never played Warhammer
so
I don't know what its designed for
in terms of end game
is open world its end game?
zealous basalt
Where open world content is unfair
hollow dock
are raids or dungeons?
mint arch
leveling and open-world quests
mint arch
like there would be a quest: "go liberate that windmill"
hollow dock
So that's why they have that system in place, Void.
mint arch
and the windmill would have buncha mods, the number, hp, dmg of the mods scaled to the number of players at the zone
hollow dock
For WoW, while I do like this idea, it wouldn't fit that well. At least, not as group scaling world content.
since. ya know. We group up to farm things nice and quick
and slowing that down harms it
mint arch
i guess
terse patrol
Apparently Hogger is still alive out there tho
mint arch
i just hate how stale and static leveling is
terse patrol
@hollow dock The Hogger in the Stockades, turns out, was just someone in a suit lol
jade basalt
zealous basalt
But
mint arch
PLS
hollow dock
The whole world now scales to you*
terse patrol
Nop
zealous basalt
Yeah
hollow dock
with the exception of the starting areas (Elywnn forest and those like it only scale to level 20) and everything else scales up to 60 for vanilla
80 for BC and WotLK
terse patrol
You find the suit in the Stockades in BFA
zealous basalt
Andromath sent him there
hollow dock
90 for Cata and Pandaria
zealous basalt
Probably is someone doing a prank later
hollow dock
they also nerfed the power of Heirlooms
terse patrol
Hogger will return... or at least I hope
zealous basalt
She is a Easter egg too
still lily
Which makes no sense
Nobody likes the leveling experience after they've done it more than 3 times
And mostly the only people that have heirlooms have like
3 characters
Or 2
hollow dock
I love the levelign changes
its no longer mindless
and I enjoy leveling my characters so I welcome the old world scaling
since now I don't outlevel areas
Feels a lot better
ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
still lily
I mean
I like the scaling
But I don't understand the heirloom nerf
Then again I don't like tedious bullshit
zealous basalt
I mean
Gamma
You could reach 20
Ask someone to lower level you through Stockades
If you are horde
hollow dock
doesnt work anymore
hollow dock
The moment a high level is in group, your XP is ground to nothing
mint arch
isnt it about the bonus objectives now?
hollow dock
for 90-110 yea
mint arch
this is the only guide thats good
Level 37-60 Stratholme Carry
ah
then there is the solo karazhan strat at 72 or something
till 80
then just pandaria into draenor
hollow dock
yea no. the carry/PL thing was hotfixed
people did the same with the dungeon carrying prior to the changes in 7.3
where they'd have 2 characters, a high level and a low level, swap around. The XP you now gain is nothing
mint arch
the carry here is that u have the low level at entrance, and high level gives u the kills for the bonus objectives in strath
then u zone out and reset
hollow dock
Oh the bonus obs. OK yea then. That works still. nevermind me
zealous basalt
So...
Wait
What if the titans knew that Void had to happen and that's why they didnt care for dankgeras?
hollow dock
They didn't
that's why Sargeras attacked them
the titans in the pantheon had only seen the old gods on Azeroth and cleansed it
they didn't see what Sargeras saw
they were unaware of the monsters beyond the veil
they didn't believe Sargeras and weren't willing to kill Azeroth over it
zealous basalt
Well, going back to the cycle we talked about
Would it be possible that it had happened before?
hollow dock
It would, but it' salso possible that these titans are only native to this cycle
thus would have no idea about it. As said in Chronicles, Aman'thul was alone and unaware of a lot in his travels to find others like him
zealous basalt
Seems like a sad fate for the Warcraft universe
hollow dock
Sort of. They represent Order in the cosmos.
Not directly arcane beings themselves, but close enough.
mint arch
but the "big" 2 forces are light/void
hollow dock
yea.
grizzled sleet
By the way, how could Xylem try to drain arcane energy from Azeroth ? what would have happened if he did?
mint arch
hm, so it'd make sense if titans didnt know of the light/void
hollow dock
The focusing Iris
If you remember, Malygos direct all the leylines to Coldarra. To the Eye.
Using the Iris as its focus, he was draining all arcane magic from Azeroth
that has never been dismantled, for no one but an aspect of magic can even attempt to dismantle what he did.
and even then, that risks creating a black hole.
Like the rift that's in the Nexus
grizzled sleet
Hummm
strange falcon
hollow dock
^
zealous basalt
You know
All these discrepancies of lore could disappear
If blizzard hired a lore expert to explain
terse patrol
funny thing
According to blizzard, they have āhistoriansā on staff for that stuff
something tells me though that they basically ask them stuff, then go āeh, iām doing what i want anywaysā
@hollow dock
hollow dock
Yup
terse patrol
Being a blizzard historians gotta suck
Getting ignored half the time
then again, you get paid to get ignored
jade basalt
No
zealous basalt
No what
mint arch
No
jade basalt
It's not really a part of a Blizz historian's job, they do not fact-check quests at all, that's the quest designer's job. They don't get "ignored half the time". Historians do not even make rule rulings (like.. establishing that an event took place in Year X, or that character Y did Z, etc.).
Some knowledge bomb !
-
Common misconception one often sees everywhere on the net, but there is no "lore team". There's just quest designers, environment designers, concept/model artists, etc. WoW is a video game, made by game designers and game people. Most people forget that.
-
Fun fact, knowing the lore is not quite a requirement for writing quests or doing anything within the game. And consulting historians is not one either.
-
Then, there's Historians. They are technically not part of the WoW team, aka Team 2. They are part of Creative Development, which takes care of all games/franchises, not just WoW. Historians are baiscally "living databases", they are supposed to compile the "lore" and info from each game. That lore and info (quests..) is created by the game team, not the historians, or sometimes by CDev (books, animations like Shao-Hao's burdens..) normally with Team 2 higher ups 's involvement. They help out when writing novels and stuff like that, and game people can go to them. For example you're a game designer and you want to make a cool questline about Illidan's past or demon hunter stuff, you could ask the historians to tell you a bit about them, then you can do whatever you want with that info. Historians also occasionally give "classes" though, mainly regarding specific stuff, for example for Legion they gave a demon hunter class so people had at least some knowledge of the concept.
sage night
terse patrol
Would be nice if they tried harder on the lore front though
uncut vault
I just realized, Kul Tiran humans are the first Druid race to not have pointy ears
jade basalt
There's no "Order plane"
uncut vault
All the forms are gonna be off
sharp bluff
š¤ Worgens in human form? I suppose they only count half the time though
tulip sun
When they transform they technically are worgen? Hmmm
Since when in battle they automatically become worgen
and you fight in druid form
zealous basalt
Isn't the great dark beyond part of the order plane?
jade basalt
The Great Dark Beyond is the name of our universe
It's got a twin brother called the Twisting Nether
restive sage
do they have internet in azeroth
jade basalt
Both were created after a series of cataclysmic interactions between the Light and Void. The most chaotic energies formed the Twisting Nether, and the rest and more calm/orderly ones the GDB.
zealous basalt
Oh
jade basalt
There isn't a separate, "Order" plane. There's just the Great Dark Beyond, the Twisting Nether, and the realm shared by the Light and Void. Then you have sub-dimensions like the Shadowlands (the afterlife, part of the GDB), the Emerald Dream (created for Azeroth by Freya), etc.
zealous basalt
Light and Void share the same realm?
jade basalt
Yeah they're in the same "realm", dimension, universe, whatever you want to call it. They're both constantly expanding and clashing against each other.
zealous basalt
I didn't know about it, can I have a source?
jade basalt
Some of the chaotic energies released by this clashing seeps into the Twisting Nether, in the form of Fel.
Chronicle explains the creation of everything and the general cosmology of Warcraft https://wow.gamepedia.com/Chronicle_Volume_1
uncut vault
Down goes the servers
zealous basalt
Betas?
tropic trail
yep
tulip sun
hollow dock
that's not entirely true Kham? the horde and alliance are constnatly fighting and killing each other
in legion
the truce they had was with Vol'jin but with no Vol'jin
hollow dock
and with Sylvanas actively ordering the mop up of the alliance troops *or maybe it was her subordinates, in Stormhiem
and with the fact
that Anduin had to send a letter
asking for peach
tulip sun
I can't really discuss right now
hollow dock
peace*
tulip sun
Gotta go to work
tulip sun
I will address what you said about stormheim lol. She was bombarded, and you think she will not give orders to retaliate? xD
zealous basalt
peach
zealous basalt
i think you are getting close there vris
uncut vault
āPointlessly vengefulā I agree with some of those points, but those words donāt go together
Especially for Tyrande
hollow dock
tyrande is well within her rights to act as she does
tulip sun
Vris, the horde soldiers and civilians would -not- know that
tulip sun
But in-game, to the Horde, they are in the right. People don't seem to understand that and the different views.
But I seriously must go
hollow dock
Oh hey it didn't delete my messages
tulip sun
I simply shared a link I found on the forums that was causing discussion
No need to get pissy
hollow dock
Im not pissy
jade basalt
I mean the Horde and Alliance are constantly battling against each other, in literally every expansion, even if officially they might not call it a "war" occasionally. The events of Stormheim are not much different than those of Ashran or whatever. They're both used to that, we fight all the time, for resources, for relics, when Horde see Alliance they usually kill them, and vice versa. We just usually don't decimate capital cities.
hollow dock
In which people call the attack unprovoked, for all intents and purposes, it is. Since we are third party omniscient viewers and all
tulip sun
But if you have a brain and look, you can see why it isnt.
jade basalt
Which one are you guys talking about ?
tulip sun
I assumed teldrassil. The hprde had reasons
grizzled sleet
If the horde wanted to remove Teldrassil for reasons, why those reasons don't apply to Exodar too ?
hollow dock
thus
there's no reason
Because they can't write the story to include workspace they're not willing to dedicate
Exodar is off the main map, and safe until blizzard desides to redesign it
jade basalt
I guess it depends on what you guys understand by "provocation". Technically, there's always a "provocation", neither faction attacks the other for 0 reason. But, technically still, there was no direct "provocation", it was a pre-emptive strike from Sylvanas, she feared that the Alliance may use Azerite to wipe out the Horde and since Teldrassil was one of the main points of their travel routes for Azerite, they decided to conquer it.
hollow dock
Thank you Quiet. Which is why I'd consider this act that Sylvanas is doing as slightly illogical were it not for Before the Storm where it shows she's thinking anduin would act like her.
jade basalt
There's a tiny bit of disconnect as well since in Before the Storm, Sylvanas sees Anduin as an incapable peace-loving child who doesn't have what people usually call "balls", but then in BFA she's afraid the High King will wipe out the Horde, so Teldrassil needs to burn !
hollow dock
Indeed.
which is what me and Honk were refering to earlier on the whole inconsistencies thing they could really fix up
terse patrol
Sylvanas acknowledges that Anduin wasnāt dumb enough to bring Calia out on the field, if I recall.
Which makes it more glaring that she lies about the Alliances intentions.
hollow dock
Since Sylvanas is also hugely manipulating the horde, and very possibly all information coming in,
she is certainly forcing Teldrassil to happen
terse patrol
I know 100% that Baine will be pissed when he learns what really went down in Arathi
tropic trail
do we actually manage to kill malfurion?
terse patrol
No.
hollow dock
and I mean VERY large chance
tropic trail
fuck
hollow dock
that she intended this
zealous basalt
He bubbleshields
hollow dock
to burn the tree down
tropic trail
he's not a paladin
hollow dock
Because to be fair
terse patrol
He doesnt
tropic trail
i know druids are stupid but this is ridiculous
terse patrol
Makoreās memeing
hollow dock
She says she wants to break the spirit of the Kaldorei people
terse patrol
He gets struck in the back when Saurfang for whatever reason schucks his axe at him while fighting Sylvanas.
hollow dock
and then states separately that they need to destroy one of their pillars.
What pillar is more important to their people than their own home?
terse patrol
He would have killed Sylvanas otherwise. Who, btw, says she would have killed Malfurion either way which was BS.
hollow dock
That line just reminded me of like
that dude who tripped up
was saved
and said
"Oh thanks, but I didn't need your help. I would have caught myself."
terse patrol
Anyways, Tyrande arrives and tells Saurfang to fuck off or die, then hearths to Stormwind with Malfurion who is dying. @tropic trail
hollow dock
gotta get that epeen
tropic trail
laaaaam
hollow dock
we sorta do.
terse patrol
He was about to ye
Then
Blizzard conveniently had Saurfang throw away his values for a split second
why the hell would he sacrifice his honor in order to save Sylvanas of all people
hollow dock
I think
zealous basalt
He might be forced by the same honor
hollow dock
and this is just my thoughts
tropic trail
saving sylvanas
zealous basalt
Internal conflict?
hollow dock
His reflexes
tropic trail
wrong think
hollow dock
immediate response
tropic trail
could be ye
hollow dock
to protect his warchief
tropic trail
but wouldn't that have applied to garrosh?