beta-ptr-spoilers

[dense plover]

but it should feel a lot less shit

honestly fixes a lot of actual issues instead of just covering them up with full moon

now all they need to fix it arcane mage

because holy shit does that spec feel like shit

[meager warren]

100% no random drops
Does that mean there's no "Collect 20-30 of [these things]" quests?

[uncut vault]

I found my favorite pose

https://gyazo.com/8169adc4f06ca7bb91da9438064853d8

[terse patrol]

noic

Blackrock waifu

[meager warren]

it looks like the only thing keeping that orc from tipping over, because of the gun, is those boots

[terse patrol]

junker gnomes when reeeee

[meager warren]

reeeee

[terse patrol]

prolly wont hear about them until 8.1

[meager warren]

hopefully never

[terse patrol]

fug u

[meager warren]

<3

[uncut vault]

https://gyazo.com/2603689e06c8ec6b3357ce85499f633c

[terse patrol]

terrifying

I like it

[uncut vault]

https://gyazo.com/2d8d2f00aa3e5ddc0649c3139f1ef07d

https://gyazo.com/72ab8d2b84760699847e6ca7be04d734

very WIP

https://gyazo.com/b0553c466498e3fef506349445cc78b4

[meager warren]

that bow is huge af

[misty blaze]

they need to stick character copy over already i wanna have my good toon on beta

[split valley]

Would make testing that new brontosaurus mount easier - make tons of money on your main then copy it enough times 😃

[umbral fiber]

https://i.imgur.com/MXzTcCk.png?1

[dense plover]

anyone know how useful my "hole in the world" bug reports are

i just find a hole

and then say that since it has my current location

[uncut vault]

boomkins after the new post:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/205417430921510912/446906542852407307/YQ0AMbR.png

[elder otter]

you're*

[meager warren]

Rekt

[elder otter]

😄

Plus, as a boomkin, I'm tilted.

[cinder knoll]

@dense plover I think shadow priest discord wouldnt agree with you that only spec remaining is arcane mage

[mint arch]

Sylvanas then suffers from a sudden onset of mental retardation

lawl

love this description of why sylvanas suddenly went crazy and thought betrayal

[tropic trail]

@split valley about the money part. Make a premade character, send the money to your main, delete the premade character

And repeat

Over and over again

If it works

😂

[mint arch]

premade meaning trial?

[tropic trail]

No on beta

[mint arch]

oh

k

[tropic trail]

You make premade chars

If you send the money over

It should work

[mint arch]

boy oh boy, ppl defending sylvanas's actions even after she just guns down her own ppl

some seriously impressive gymnastics being shown~

[rich ocean]

But they are defectors!

But it was a coup!

[mint arch]

oh, and all the E D G Y bois saying "kill all the coup"

also

Sylvanas is a T A C T I C A L G E N I U S

the amazing tactic of *squints at notes* ....murdering your own people

wants to leave the forsaken to go live with their families as non combatants = traitors, how dare they go against the lich queen >:3

Sylvanus "I value free will" Windrunner xD

[heavy cairn]

if I had to guess she's jealous if anything

[mint arch]

hmm, that could be part of it

but we know she's scared of loosing her forsaken and power

cause of the whole death stuff

[heavy cairn]

her last time with vereesa didn't go so well, and alleria got all the info about sylvanas from vereesa. she doesn't really have a family to go to, alive or dead

[mint arch]

so she's gone hella paranoid

well, sylvanas has always been an asshole

so hard to get ppl to like her xD

putting aside the in-lore stuff

i do blame much of all this shit on terrible writing and blizzard forcing this whole war

-_-

sylvanas may have become evil after her suicide, but there were so many great ways to explore that arc

[heavy cairn]

I'm not going to be thrilled if this is garrosh 2.0, but knowing blizzard I highly doubt they will do something so predictable.

[mint arch]

it's 100% garrosh 2.0 now

or they do some stupid "redemption" shit

[heavy cairn]

I don't think it'll be either

unless you consider illidan "redeemed"? I certainly don't, ask malfurion or tyrande too

[mint arch]

its why i put the quotes on redemption

cause ya, illidan and "redeemed"

fck that shit

illidan arc was so fcking dumb

[heavy cairn]

I thought it was dumb for a while but in 7.2 and 7.3 he seemed alright

definitely not redeemed, with or without quotes

[mint arch]

his personal interactions with chars and stuff was fine

but the overall thing of "i did it all to defeat the legion!"

as if that excuses all the shit he did

-_-

[heavy cairn]

well every villain (not sure if that's the right word in this case) has their own personal justification for things. illidan does like to rub his own justification in everyone's faces, but himself being redeemed in his eyes does not reflect the actual fact that blizzard is communicating through his interactions with the story.

[mint arch]

then his "sacrifice" at the end of legion.... like what sacrifice? to just stand and watch sargeras?

thing is

illidan was originally meant to be a villain

and he was written like that in BC

but then blizzard wanted him to be all anti-hero for legion

and xera didnt help with her prophecy shit

[tropic trail]

I am pretty sure the original idea for Illidans story was quite a bit different

[mint arch]

anti-hero i guess in warcaft

[tropic trail]

But there was so much outcry after the Xe'ra-Licght-and-Shadow-Quest (and the golden illidan reveal), that they changed it up in a hurry

[heavy cairn]

nah I don't think so

[mint arch]

i think blizzard never intended for illidan to become light infused

they want to push the whole "light is grey"

as u know, the warcraft universe is now G R E Y

wont be long before we see the void lords have some good thing about em

[vale idol]

the original Illidian was not a plain villain though. just like Kael wasn't. but hey, BC needed raid bosses, so

[tropic trail]

I even don't think of BC-Kael as a plain villain as far as the storstelling from then goes

the problem is (and will just forever be) that an MMORPG is just a difficult medium for storytelling

I mean, for the last few expansions they try to get around it by pretending to be a single-player RPG most of the time

[mint arch]

nah, MMO's are no more harder to write for than an RPG

there have been MMO's with great writings and stories

its just that blizzard have shit writers now

[hollow dock]

Christine Golden is a shit writer?

When was this?

[mint arch]

i didnt specify anyone

[tropic trail]

Golden is pretty decent, imho. But she has to work in the confines of what she gets.

[mint arch]

and i mean blizzard shit writers cause its blizzard in charge of the overall narrative

[hollow dock]

And Swtor does have a good time writing a great story for itself

Granted its treated its storyline like a normal rpg.

[mint arch]

aye, thats one way of going about it

and i think thats a fine way as long as u dont treat the player as some sort of prophesized god

[vale idol]

I don't believe it hard tbh. It's just the 2 factions and their impact on storytelling is a complete mess. Also the power levels of main characters is all over the place.

[hollow dock]

Thats every rpg out there tho.

[tropic trail]

The main problem is that blizzard seems to see the story more as a tool to accomodate the gameplay then as an essential part of the experience at times

[mint arch]

single player RPG's can do the whole "u are the one" thing

but MMO's need to make the distinction

[hollow dock]

Thats what I mean when I said SWTOR made itself a great story

But it treats it like a normal rpg

[mint arch]

i see

[tropic trail]

I mean, that's what blizzard is doing also. Like at least since WoD

"YOU are the commander of the expedition. Just ignore that everyone else is also"

[hollow dock]

WoWs story has always had the MCs being fantastic murder hobos. Thats just how rpgs end up being.

[mint arch]

sigh, blizzard could've kept the players as soldiers

even soldiers of renown

[vale idol]

Like, how can you write a good story when you have Malf on one side? Considering you have half of the playerbase on the other one.

[mint arch]

but then we had to be "commanders" and "order leaders" and -_-

[hollow dock]

The issue for storytelling now is that theyre trying their best to make both factions equal in a war.

It just doesnt work.

[mint arch]

^

indeed

im still wondering how the fck order halls suddenly all disbanded and are like, "ya we're done" -_-

the same orders halls that defeated the legion

[hollow dock]

The order halls and the garrisons were perfectly fine from the RPG stprytelling aspect.

Uts the aftermath that ruins it

Where we abandom it for no gold reason

Good*

[mint arch]

aye

[tropic trail]

As I said, to much writing the story for the sake of gameplay.

[hollow dock]

Yup

[vale idol]

But the problem is, if they sacrificed the gameplay for the story there would be no horde.

[tropic trail]

I mean one of the foremost examples are forsaken priests. You could a) Respect the story in the gameplay and disallow them to be holy (or don't give Forsakenpriests in the first place) b) Respect the story and just tell the players "Hey, i the engine, Forsaken can use holy for balancing and technical purposes. They can't do it in the lore" or c) Pull two 180s and just cobble together any explanation why Forsaken can now use light

[hollow dock]

They dint have to nuo.

Right think it this way

[tropic trail]

And Blizzard consistently goes with c) on any of these questions

[hollow dock]

In SWTOR the base factions of repub and imp

Are basically dissolved

In story

Gameplay wise they function normally everywhere else

[tropic trail]

I also think two rigid factions are a bad number.

three works so much better.

BEcause whenever one faction get's to strong the other two will nearly automatically team up

[ruby star]

I liked SWTOR, until them two eternal empire expansions came out, didn't like them

[hollow dock]

In the story you arent apart of either side and are instead in charge of the Eternal Empire. But gameplay wise youre still am imp or a repub

[dawn wolf]

yeah but swtor is terrible

and eternal empire killed the game

[hollow dock]

Its an example to show that WoW doesnt need to write the story for the sake of gameplay guys

[ruby star]

Yeah I hated the Eternal empire stuff

[dawn wolf]

yeah but

dissolving the two factions is what killed swtor

so why would wow do it?

[hollow dock]

SWTOR was D.O.A. EE didnt do the killing

[dawn wolf]

nah

it wasnt DOA

it was quite good till shadow of revan

then it started to drop off

[vale idol]

Right, I know that. I mostly meant that warcraft already had so many moments in the alliance horde conflict where the horde could be dissolved and was left solely for gameplay reasons. But they can't do that because they need this conflict for gameplay reasons and half of the playerbase is on horde.

[dawn wolf]

EE struck the final blow

[hollow dock]

I whole heartily disagree but thats just opinions

[ruby star]

EE was horrible like honestly, It kinda ruined the star wars feels. but thats my thoughs.

xD

[tropic trail]

I mean, EVE online does show how you can make the story and gameplay elements match up a good bit. But it results in a very different type of game.

[hollow dock]

Its not what we are discussing but good for you dror.

Yea EVEs story and even map are in complete control of the players

Not the devs

[vale idol]

Eh, there is practically no developer driven story in eve though :p

[hollow dock]

Never was and never will be.

[tropic trail]

Exactly. That's what I mean when I say "very different type of game"

The story matches what happens ingame, because player actions form the story

Wait I thought undead could use the light cause some were still in touch with it even after death?

[dawn wolf]

here's what blizzard should do to fix the story

[tropic trail]

Or am I remembering that wrong

[dawn wolf]

kill every member of the alliance

problem solved

[tropic trail]

No, that's the official explanation.

[hollow dock]

Or just wipe out the horde

[tropic trail]

@tropic trail

Ah okay

[hollow dock]

But then again Gley, that dissolves the factions. :p

[tropic trail]

I just complained about the need for an explanation in the first place (instead of just not giving forsaken the ability to use light in the lore)

^^

I see

[hollow dock]

I dont mind things like that. Because of how they have the powers from above seem sentient.

[tropic trail]

Well. Granted alonsus is a big priest figure

[hollow dock]

But when you have things like teldrassil and Undercity happen solely to move the games plot along and nothing else, theres an issue.

[tropic trail]

Well, at least this time they go through with changing the world up a bit.

Not like SoO where the end result was to say "oh, yes, here, have your town back, nothing changes"

[hollow dock]

To be fair, a lot of SoO above ground stuff is easily cleaned up.

Since its scaffolding or spikes/barricades

The rest was all underground.

[tropic trail]

And underground you cant even access lol

[hollow dock]

I guess they could have left the beach head in.

[tropic trail]

That woulda been dope

Well, what I want to say is, I like it when the world changes to reflect the story

Instead of being eternally frozen

[hollow dock]

Thats fair.

I too like it, but also like to revert it every now and then.

Or perminately for Teld/UC

[tropic trail]

well, you always have the bronze dragons if you wish to go back

I think it's a good solution as it allows them to change the status qu every now and then

[hollow dock]

Yup.

[dawn wolf]

didn't the dragonflight lose all their power at the end of cata

[tropic trail]

Not all.

Most of it, but they are still pretty powerful

[mint arch]

cata ending and aspects 🤢

sigh

old wounds~

[deft escarp]

I think the idea of Garrosh returning as an undead Lightforged paladin might be worse...

[mortal pewter]

i pray the thing about Calia isn't true, wayched a youtub vid last night about the "Real Reason" for the war

[deft escarp]

Yea I read the novel preview

Still don't get it why the call her an undead

She just got resurrected by the light

[mint arch]

it wasnt just the light though

[mortal pewter]

so she shouldn't be a walking bag of bones

[mint arch]

she asked to be raised as a forsaken/undead

[mortal pewter]

what?!

[mint arch]

but the light prevents her from rotting and cursed

[deft escarp]

Why the hell would she do that?

[mint arch]

ill have to find the exact text

but im sure others here know

[mortal pewter]

she was the last remaining heir to the Lordaeron Throne for Light's sake 😦

[deft escarp]

Is it so she can rule the Forsaken?

[mint arch]

well, sylvanas kills her

so i guess she decided might as well raise as forsaken

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[deft escarp]

But is it the light's doing that she's an undead?

Because that would 0 sense

[hollow dock]

She asked to be 'Forsaken' undead.

It was her decision to come back as an undead.

[deft escarp]

But only a Valkyr can do that

[hollow dock]

Who said?

[deft escarp]

Eh, Sylvanas?

[hollow dock]

Sylvanas has never stated that only val'kyr can create more undead.

The legion creates undead daily. they're the reason we even have necromancy in the first place. The void binds the dead as well. The light does so too. There's nothing to say Saa'ra wouldn't give Calia a form she requested for.

[limber mural]

incidentally sylvanas would say only she can do it if she even had, to stop people trying

[twin remnant]

i just hope the forsaken get a new leader.

[mint arch]

we all do

[tropic trail]

They will get.

I dont know.

Someone.

[twin remnant]

probably Celia

since she literally is the Heir to Lordareon

[deft escarp]

But would Celia join the Horde?

[mint arch]

^

thats the thing for me

would she join the horde

[twin remnant]

i dont think the horde and alliance will be a thing in future expansions.

we're starting to intermingle so much

faction lines are blurring

just look at the order halls.

[deft escarp]

So many things must be removed from the game if that were to happen

The game is designed around two factions

[mint arch]

ya, only thing blizzard can do is create a new faction

but they wont since they are dead set on 2 factions -_-

[twin remnant]

yes but the horde and alliance arent really factions anymore

im thinking its gonna be a shadow and light thing instead

idk.

[deft escarp]

Would be weird to have a Lightforged Draenei on the void side and a Void Elf on the light side

[twin remnant]

most races of Azeroth are very capable of living together

friends even

the tauren being allied with the night elves due to their druidic nature was the start

now its just gonna keep ramping up

[mint arch]

battle for(ced) azeroth

[twin remnant]

its not forced bruv

the entirety of the war is Sylvanus's fault

[mint arch]

true

but whats forced is rest of horde following her

[twin remnant]

she's literally fucking insane

[deft escarp]

the war itself doesn't seem very forced

[twin remnant]

well yeah

[mint arch]

cause she said "for the horde" in a cinematic

[twin remnant]

shes your warchief.

[deft escarp]

but the whole ''morally grey'' part is

[twin remnant]

you follow your king or queen

[mint arch]

it is incredibly forced

broken shore misunderstanding is SO DUMBN

fighting for azerite?

[twin remnant]

you know whats also dumb

Sylvanus

[mint arch]

why are allied races so okay with suddenly going "death to other faction"

?

ud think nightborne and lightforged would wanna rest/rebuild

and so on

Sylvanus indeed

[twin remnant]

i would of loved if high mountain and nightbourne were neutral.

[mint arch]

^

indeed

why are high mountain fighting this war?

sigh

[split valley]

@tropic trail sorry at work so couldn’t check mentions till now. On beta you only get 5k gold on a template toon so that would take 1000 template toons. Which could take some time as generally you don’t spawn near a mailbox on an alliance toon so would need to factor in time to get to mailbox ....1000 times

[deft escarp]

Blizzard has stated that they won't do anymore neutral races I'm afraid

[split valley]

Could be viable on a horde toon as they start in ogrimmaar near a mailbox

[deft escarp]

But then again, anything can change

[dawn wolf]

bring back vol'jin

[floral nacelle]

Bruh I heard discussions about the Novel?

Sylvanas truly showing her evil colours by slaughtering her own citizens. Gotta say it's nice they finally made her go for the full evil shit that even her own right hand is questioning her.

[mint arch]

forsaken and sylv have been evil for many years now

this is just sylv going overdrive with a war

but hey

tooootaly not evil

just misunderstood

G R E Y

[dawn wolf]

to be fair

varimathras warned us

[vale idol]

what's exactly nice about another horde leader going overdrive evil? you truly believe this is good storytelling or good char development?

[tranquil steeple]

I don't think anyone's saying it's nice.

Besides to trigger the Sylvanas fanboys

[vale idol]

Gotta say it's nice they finally made her go for the full evil shit

[dawn wolf]

here's a question

if sylvanas gets uh

rekilled

who replaces her?

[limber mural]

baine or saurfang

nathanos possibly assuming he has a change of mind

[vale idol]

assuming they all have a change of mind tbh

[limber mural]

Well saurfang isn't happy

Baine cannot possibly be happy

Gallywix will just go for the fairest weather

[vale idol]

yeah, but do they want to be a warchief? fairly sure when vol'jin died his glorious death after an expansion of doing fuck all none on the horde side wanted to be a warchief

[limber mural]

Nathanos atm is the one who waves his 'for the dark lady' flag

[clever ember]

I think if she dies. It is time for the Tauren to lead the horde 😁

[limber mural]

Well nobody probably wants to be warchief but they probably would step up if required

and then have an Anduin-esque subplot of insecurity

Tbh Thrall is gonna come back like that guy with the pizzas in that one .gif

where the house is on fire

you know the one I mean

[hollow dock]

btw

Has anyonenoticed

that no one is calling Anduin; "Genn's Bitch" anymore?

[limber mural]

manduin

[dawn wolf]

i mean

vol'jin could be revived

[heavy cairn]

to be fair not much content has made it to live involving anduin since patch 7.3.5

[hollow dock]

He is in loa form. supposedly.

[limber mural]

his kinda ascendance in that little questline kinda implies he's his own man now

[hollow dock]

and the book OSX.

The book is chalked full of him

he's even on the cover

[limber mural]

Anduin I think has a nice balance between influences, having Genn on one side and Velen on the other

[dawn wolf]

can you become corporeal again after becoming a loa

[heavy cairn]

well, I have hope for genn given an isolated spoiler I heard from the book; something about genn realizing not all forsaken are bad

[limber mural]

(aysa would be nice if she hadn't been forgotten for years but hey)

[hollow dock]

Spoiler chat OSX

Weve gone over it already

Yea

[limber mural]

Basically Anduin is I think in the right place

[heavy cairn]

I know it's spoiler chat, I just didn't remember full details because I don't want to think of book spoilers until I get the book

[limber mural]

He has confidence in leadership now

Which is more than he had at the start of Legion

And as a personality he is a product and an evolution of Varian

[hollow dock]

I kinda wish yrel got this treatment in WoD.

[dawn wolf]

oh

zandalari as paladins

[limber mural]

Wait are you serious

[dawn wolf]

is it like... reasonably confirmed?

[heavy cairn]

no it's not reasonably confirmed

[dawn wolf]

i've seen a lot of people going OMG ZANDALARI CAN BE PALADINS

[heavy cairn]

it's a possibility but not confirmed in any way

[limber mural]

We already got fuckin moocows clogging up the doorways in the Sanctum of Light

[heavy cairn]

however them giving kultirans druids gives hope for zandalari paladins if you ask me gley

[limber mural]

what lore grounding does it have

[dawn wolf]

Zandalari Trolls
The story of BfA details Zandalari Paladins and this arc could lead to Zandalari Paladins. We have to wait and see.

from a q&a

[limber mural]

I cannot think of any

[dawn wolf]

so

[heavy cairn]

brass, there are zandalari prelates from ToT and they've been seen in bfa beta. those equal paladins

[dawn wolf]

i guess we'll have to see

[limber mural]

fair enough I guess, maybe they'll be along a blood knight sorta line

same methods different means

[heavy cairn]

the problem is that their power relied on that loa of kings, whatever his name is dino, so IDK how they would get it back since dino was killed

rezan

[limber mural]

Rezan

Well that didn't stop the blood knights kinda so

[hollow dock]

Well the blood knights draw lightfromt he sunwell

[limber mural]

eh guess we'll wait and see

[hollow dock]

not M'uru

anymore anyways

[limber mural]

now they do, yes

just saying, they lost their source of power and found a new one

[heavy cairn]

since zandalaris aren't in 8.0, there's definitely time for that to happen ^

[hollow dock]

Whichmay or may nothappen forthe zandalari. Just keep a grain of salt at all times @dawn wolf because people love to take shit out of context

[dawn wolf]

i do hope we get zandalari paladins

like

[limber mural]

I'm enthusiastic for them as a race, I always wanted to make a troll but couldn't really find the time/will

[dawn wolf]

horde choices are blood elf or moocow

[limber mural]

mhm

[hollow dock]

if you want beautiful paladins, the alliance is waiting for you :ionsmug:

[dawn wolf]

i'd rather hang myself

[limber mural]

and tauren like

the Sanctum of Light looks lit

And then there's a tauren filling the entire room

[hollow dock]

I just want my night elf paladins already

[dawn wolf]

taurens are just so awkward

[twin remnant]

you know what i want.

worgen monks

gimme dat shit

i also want worgen model updates

ffs.

[hollow dock]

Worgen update is coming

but Worgen physically can't become monks becausethey're worgen.

[twin remnant]

?

[hollow dock]

They barely have control over their wolf form

[twin remnant]

...

[hollow dock]

Which monks are all about balance. Worgen aren't capable of findingthat balance

[twin remnant]

you're wrong my friend

the entirety of the gilnean race is about finding balance.

[hollow dock]

It's not.

[twin remnant]

oh yeah?

[hollow dock]

That'sa misconception. They're about finding control.

They sooth the beast, but they do not make peace with it.

[twin remnant]

then why do they undergo a ritual, to balance both the wolf and the man of their psyche?

[hollow dock]

It's a soothing ritual.Not a balancing one..

[twin remnant]

same shit

different smell

[hollow dock]

Very different actually.

AS if worgen were at balanceof their curse, they'd be able to choose when and when not to shapeshift

but they aren't. You even see this in Genn

who takes multiple shouts to call him back from mauling people

[twin remnant]

i think thats just in battle

obviously the furiosity would come out

but as monks, they would even have greater controll

[hollow dock]

Which is uncontrollable. Which is why worgen formcomes out immediately

in combat

[limber mural]

Monks battle though

They'd be a failure in practice

[hollow dock]

and they keep serenity in battle

Worgen are incapable of doing so

[vale idol]

re Anduin & the book. imo it's because he makes a very good epic/high fantasy character, where he (and the alliance) is a paragon of light and all good in the darkness that sylv brings. him being a pawn of Genn doesn't fit this narrative. hell, they even make Genn be suddenly ok with forsaken to fit.
don't get me wrong, the book and the story it tells may be good (it looks like it is). alone. if you couldn't actually play as 'the bad guys'. right now it just furthers this morally grey/evil circlejerk and railroads us into another cartoon villain 'evil horde warchief'

[twin remnant]

you guys are mean.

[hollow dock]

We're not. That's sadly the lore. =/

[limber mural]

at the end of the day it just comes down to I want Vrykul as an allied race but we can't all have nice things

[hollow dock]

Idont

I want vrykul as a full

dedicated race

[limber mural]

like they're perfect candidates

in every way

they should've been in in wrath

[vale idol]

it currently looks like that for some reason they are against adding allied races (or whatever you wanna call them) that are already part of the respective faction

[limber mural]

But Vrykul are just them

[vale idol]

I know vrykul aren't in the alliance, I just mean in general

[deft escarp]

The Broken on Argus and the Vrykul were very obvious choices for Blizzard

They were unique, they had lore behind them

even their own rep factions

but nah

lets add a darker/lighter shades of already existing races

[sharp bluff]

No female broken models I think is the thing

They like to make them look a bit different between genders

[mint arch]

make them fat draenei

boom, new allied race

worked for humans

-_-

[deft escarp]

haha

[sharp bluff]

Humans made sense that way though, seafaring people need some fat to stay healthy at sea

[deft escarp]

My fat uncle isn't a human apparently

[sharp bluff]

Broken, like ogres, no females

[deft escarp]

That's so hard to add? We didn't see any worgen females untill they announced them as a race

[sharp bluff]

Time

About it

Time and resources

[deft escarp]

Which is why they should've went with the already existing races x)

[sharp bluff]

They probably exist, makes little sense for all broken to be male, but would take time to make them models, and resources they have elsewhere, as for Vrykul they would need to make player models for that also

[hollow dock]

theyve had the groundwork for a femalemodel in

sincelike BC

they just never made em

[sharp bluff]

And make them shorter

Player Vrykul would be shorter

Look at zandalari

A big difference

[deft escarp]

They can make them the same height as Tauren

I've seen Vrykuls that aren't crazy tall

[sharp bluff]

Also spirit healers are from the shadowlands, as far as I know Vrykul don’t go there on death

On helheim or sky place

Correct me if I am wrong Vris, Vrykul are not my area

Of knowledge

But with Helya dead who knows how that works now

[hollow dock]

Helhiem is in the shadowlands

[sharp bluff]

Just a weird section of it?

[hollow dock]

Yup. Specifically the sea portion of it

[deft escarp]

I don't think Blizzard has fleshed out the story behind different races' afterlife

[sharp bluff]

Only a few

[hollow dock]

They have somewhat

[sharp bluff]

Nelfs turn into wisps

Most bound by flesh go to shadowlands

[deft escarp]

and wisps are tied to the Emerald Dream if I'm not mistaken

[sharp bluff]

Trolls go to Bonies domain

[hollow dock]

Because night elves are tied to the dream yes

[deft escarp]

So the Emerald Dream is some sort of afterlife?

[sharp bluff]

An alternate version of Azeroth sorta

[hollow dock]

Its azeroth

Without

[hollow badger]

a dream of what a perfect azeroth would be, something like that right?

[hollow dock]

Any interference on our behalf

Yea

Nature flourishes without the mortal races

Thats what the dream is.

[hollow badger]

i thought wisps go there too, but im not sure

[hollow dock]

They do and they dont

They slip between the dream and reality on their own

[deft escarp]

So what about the Shadowlands? Is that like the opposite of the Emerald Dream?

Like one is a realm of life n such and the other is a realm of death?

[hollow dock]

Basically.

Its a form of purgatory that we are pulled from essentially.

Its an incorrect desceiption but its the best one I can figure out

[sharp bluff]

It is weird

[hollow dock]

^

[sharp bluff]

We know little about it in all honesty

We know it exists across the whole universe

Prime Naaru and spirit healers are there

There is a creepy forest where a little girl got dragged to

Boneswami has power there

[hollow dock]

there's multiple layers there to be sure

[sharp bluff]

Death Knights can go into it

[hollow dock]

But from everything, the best I can see is that it's a "purgatory" that we sit in for the worlds forces to use at their whims

[sharp bluff]

^

[hollow dock]

Bwonsambdi doesn't pull every soul of the dead, just those he canfind in the shadowlands. Same with Helya, the Val'kyr, etc.

Where-as deathknights head into areasof theshadowlands where the darkriders are to steal their horses

[deft escarp]

I wonder if all these ''pocket-realms'' connects

[sharp bluff]

They do

[hollow dock]

they are.

[deft escarp]

Some speculate that Rift of Aln is a gateway to the Shadowlands

[hollow dock]

It's a trifecta gateway

It goes into theGreat Dark (Space), the Twisting Nether, and the Shadowlands.

all from the dream. It's been in there since its creator

creation*

[deft escarp]

Cool

If you look at the cosmology chart, the Emerald Dream is on the opposite side of the Shadowlands

[hollow dock]

Yup. they're opposites.

[deft escarp]

Same with Order and Chaos, Void and Light

[hollow dock]

The emerald dreamisa realm complete of light

life*

notlight

the shadowlands is of complete death

[deft escarp]

Holy moly...

[hollow dock]

The next tos aren't really meaning anything. It's just to show the opposites of the universe.

[deft escarp]

What if it's the same case for them though

[hollow dock]

that'd mean Void means Order :p

[deft escarp]

Like didn't we see void abberations emerge from the Sunwell?

[hollow dock]

Not at all.

The whole sunwell thing is a Nether Princetracking down Alleria

[deft escarp]

But do we know if they came through the Sunwell or not?

[hollow dock]

Yes

they came from the void

notthe sunwell itself

the Sunwell is of pure light

[terse patrol]

I am curious to see how this expac ends. I’m actually semi-certain we might not even fight Nzoth in BFA, and this may or may not end up being a “trilogy” story centered on the Old Gods.

And from what it sounds like, we “lose” this expac.

[mint arch]

[deft escarp]

The Well of Eternity was pure arcane, yet it turned green and demons came swarming through it

[hollow dock]

Because they opened a portal

of fel

right over it

[terse patrol]

My guess is, Azshara is the big bad and we don’t know the big twist yet.

[hollow dock]

Azshara is this expacs gul'dan tho honk

[terse patrol]

I mean, they -say- that, but I can’t see the much hyped Azshara being only a Gul’dan.

[hollow dock]

I can't see Gul'dan being legion's Gul'dan

it still happened

[mint arch]

evil lore characters are just raid bosses waiting to happen

[hollow dock]

^

just waiting for the Azura's Wrath boss that is Sargeras

[lyric pebble]

next exp azhara will cast a powerful spell that converts all the land into water and all water into land and we will have everything new to explore \o

[hollow dock]

sadly that doesn'thappen :p

[strange falcon]

inb4 it justs cuts to another game entirely,and you are fighting sargeras in a streetfigther-ish style

[lyric pebble]

but it would be cool to see all the ancient times structures submerged after the sundering u.u

[terse patrol]

idk we got Kratos Orc in game now @hollow dock

[strange falcon]

and you punch him to death

[hollow dock]

Yea =D

andwe did that in CataGarg

fuckin everyone hated it

[terse patrol]

Thats why they’re 100% going to raise Nazja’tar out of the ocean.

[lyric pebble]

i didn't hated it u.u

[hollow dock]

I didn't either but it did cause a lot of health issues.

[lyric pebble]

i find cata quest really nice

[hollow dock]

so theyre not doing that again.

[lyric pebble]

they might do it again in reality

but like they are doing for silithus, theramore

a way to "switch back"

so no one can complain

[hollow dock]

They won't doit to thewholeworld

becauseSilithus/Theramore are lockedto zones

[hollow badger]

Vashj'ir is somehow my least favourite zone of all time..

[lyric pebble]

well theramore and silithus aren't locked, they are part of the world

not instanced

[hollow badger]

well for that reason i havent been there for a long time, so i don't know how bad it truly is

[hollow dock]

the changed versions are in fact instanced.

[sharp bluff]

I think Vris means that it is just that zone changed

[hollow dock]

that's how you swap between them to and from.

[lyric pebble]

no they are phased i think

not instanced

[sharp bluff]

it does not effect any othe r zones

[lyric pebble]

it is different

[hollow dock]

wellphased yea. instancedis thewrong word

they're not going to phase the entire world

that causes way to many issues

[lyric pebble]

why not

there are already tons of phases in the world

[hollow dock]

and do you knowjusthow much doing that fucked over the entire world?

For the longest time spawns -didn't work-.

heck to this day

[lyric pebble]

well i'm not saying that they will

[strange falcon]

@hollow badger is that a phantom thieves logo i see

[lyric pebble]

just that they can

[hollow dock]

there are spawns thatsimply dont work

Oh they can do anything Garg

ability is never in question.

[umbral fiber]

So with the undercity and teldrasil having the bronze dragon person there, nothing really changes? i mean it does but you can always go back like if in Cataclysm deathwings destroyed zones could always be changed back if you wanted... so...

[terse patrol]

I do think thought that if all this speculation is right, we’ll see more old world edits over time. Especially if the rumors that we’re going to fail against the Old Gods in this expac are true.

[lyric pebble]

they have so much responsabilities lol

[terse patrol]

@hollow dock

[umbral fiber]

its up to the player if they want the changes to be permanent?

[hollow dock]

Yup

which is what they learned from cata

[umbral fiber]

Sweet

[hollow dock]

Maybe

[terse patrol]

Right now, I think we’re reaching the culmination of the Old Gods plans.

And it won’t be pretty.

8.0 alone is full of all sorts of depressing war stuff. It can only go downhill.

[sharp bluff]

all that Blood for the Blood god stuff seems fun

though not sure why the alliance thought trying to bargain with them was a good idea yet

[hollow dock]

I hope it isnt

I -want- them to burst out of the ground

I want the news that Azeroth is nearly dead. I want our hubris to finally bite us in the ass

[deft escarp]

I want to see Ny'alotha

[hollow dock]

same

andI hope its as horrific as R'lyeh is

[near cosmos]

So guys, what do you think about High Elves as a possible future allied race?

[hollow dock]

it's possible.

[deft escarp]

It is very possible seeing how it's the most discussed topic on the forums

[near cosmos]

I demand more nerd rage than this, if I don't meet my quota I will be fired from my position as Chief Shitposting Officer 😦

[hollow dock]

We're not shitpostingatm?

[near cosmos]

hahah

[terse patrol]

wont happen this expac

[hollow dock]

that'sjust 1 forumpost btw Happy.

On just the US wowforums:p

there's more on MMO-C, EU forumsand countless other capped threads on all three.

[deft escarp]

Yea, so I don't think Blizzard can ignore that great part of their community anymore

[sharp bluff]

Apparently you have not watched the Overwatch team and what they did to Mercy

[hollow dock]

nerfed her very overpowered team ult and then furthernerfed her overpowered solo ult as per the community's demandsoutsideof the smallmargin of mercy mains

?

[sharp bluff]

oh god

that shield

finally a nice tower shield I have a chance of getting

[terse patrol]

I want that dark iron hammer

[ruby star]

Did someone say High Elves? ❤

[tranquil steeple]

Oh no not again

[near cosmos]

Yess... yeeeessss... Dance for me, my minions...

[hollow dock]

Dont worry sela

[deft escarp]

''Blood Elves ARE High Elves hurr durrrr!''

[hollow dock]

We didn'tfall for the troll

[near cosmos]

that's Chief Shitposting Officer to you!

[lavish pawn]

smh

if the game gets more elves. we need more trolls

[hollow dock]

elves are just another flavor of trolls

[sharp bluff]

🤔

Well your not wrong

[hollow dock]

in which, I say we go to AU Azeroth, pick up the high elves for the alliance and amani for the horde

Bam.

Both sides satisfied

[deft escarp]

Ugh! No more time traveling, please!

[hollow dock]

Its not timetraveling

its dimension hopping

Remember

AU Draenor never touched AU Azeroth

[deft escarp]

I'm gonna get a migraine

[hollow dock]

So theres no horde there

there's never a first, second or thirdwar. There's no scourge there.There's no horde there

[deft escarp]

But can't we just do that now? I mean the Amani Trolls are still around and so are the High Elves

[hollow dock]

Yea but people bitch about numbers

and our Amani trolls kindahatethe horde

[deft escarp]

If that's the case then what about Void Elves and Lightforged Draenei? xD

[hollow dock]

the horde abandoned them inthe secondwar andthenallied with the elves.

Yea they ignore them conviently and only apply those arguments to high elves

[deft escarp]

and that they aren't unique enough

[hollow dock]

Oh they were plenty unique in the second war.

[deft escarp]

All the counter-arguments against High Elves kinda neglects 80% of the allied races

[hollow dock]

Yup.

Inwhich on uniqueness: Highmountain tauren are only different

through tattoos

and horns

[lavish pawn]

stop using AU. that is bad for your health

[hollow dock]

tell that to the horde

that's literally doing the exactsame I am suggesting

[terse patrol]

https://i.redditmedia.com/0qQrrmUVAl04PjcJcfj_HXnu5_qIh2ekak98Imyngkc.jpg?w=1024&s=d121fc6537ca1de51515ef46d92b8c32

I want

Apparently its classified as a staff

I hope so

I want to use a fuck off big hammer as my mage

[hollow dock]

I mean

have you see the weapons clericsuse?

theyre big fuckoff hammers

[terse patrol]

“That’s not a staff, Hefka, that’s just a big hammer.” “It’s a feckin’ staff, are ‘ye blind mate?”

[dawn wolf]

the 2h swords look great

[hollow dock]

Something did occur to me.

[terse patrol]

“Why do you yell ‘taste my hammer’ when you hit things, then?”

[hollow dock]

What ifthey want to release cosmetic weapons?

[terse patrol]

“It’s a metaphor.”

I think they will eventually. @hollow dock

Allied race weapons specifically

[hollow dock]

And they're just makingthese andholding ontothem

[deft escarp]

i want this animation for maces

[hollow dock]

I want that animation for swords and axes

I want that animation for all massive 2h weapons

[deft escarp]

yea basically all 2h weapons

[lavish pawn]

Battle staff?

[terse patrol]

Yeah I suspect the dark iron hammer will be a cosmetic weapon

[deft escarp]

ok maybe not staff

[terse patrol]

it’d be super sick to use as a mage tho

[hollow dock]

or a priest!

and actually bea cleric for once

[terse patrol]

Now that they have ranged weapon idle stances

I wish they had two hander idle stances

I wanna hold my hammer all menacing like

[hollow dock]

I mean. they do? Select an enemy and just never deselectthem

that's all the ranger idle is

[deft escarp]

What we want is a non-combat idle animation for 2h weapons

[hollow dock]

yea but honk got the new hunteranimation with the monks shoulderanimation

[sharp bluff]

I don't care either way about alliance getting more elfs, but I have one question for those saying AU elfs would join:
A:since the invasion never happened who is to say that Helfs and humans are friendly enough they would send help?
B: since the invasion never happened, what if AU Azeroth is in a peaceful bliss, would you bring them into war?
C: who is to say that a bigger threat has not popped up on it?
D: other

just a couple questions to think on

first things that came to my mind, don't personally care either way

Still waiting on a Death Knight ❤

[hollow dock]

A: WE tell them the crimes of the blood elves in our timeline and save them from the Amani that's now horde backed.
B: Azeroth wasn't in blissful peace before the horde what
C: We help them with said bigger threat or they write it like the Mag'har where Azeroth is being lost.

D: other

[sullen dagger]

au?

[sharp bluff]

Alternate Universe

Basically people hated it for WoD, but then realized they could get an AU Azeroth where there is no horde

because they really want elves

[tulip sun]

Getting them from the AU wouldnt fix any of the problems with making them playable

[sharp bluff]

I think they will say "but that is how it worked for the orcs"

[dense plover]

but there is no AU azeroth

AU draenor was created by that bronze dragon

we would need a different bronze dragon to create an AU azeroth

and to my knowledge, there isnt one willing to do that

there arent that many bronze dragons left

[sharp bluff]

and some die in BFA....

[dense plover]

no they dont?

what bronze dragons die in BfA?

[tulip sun]

Orcs physically were different before turning green

Helves are....helvesq

[sharp bluff]

Chromie scenario was 112 I think Peach

[dense plover]

Yeah we stop chromie from dying

That’s the entire point of the scenario

[sharp bluff]

but that would cause her to turn into an infinite Dragon would it not?

[dense plover]

No

[sharp bluff]

because she wasnt the one to do it?

[dense plover]

She would have to stop her intended death

And again

[sharp bluff]

ahh and this one was not intended?

[dense plover]

Exactly

[hollow dock]

the explination isthat AU Draenor is itsown timeline

[dense plover]

She isn’t supposed to die yet

[hollow dock]

It was supposed to collapse and stop existingbut we stabilized it

[dense plover]

All bronze dragons know when they will die

[tropic trail]

AU-stuff ruins stories, period. There are a few exceptions that make a multiverse work with very good world building and rules.

But WoW is definitely not one of those.

[hollow dock]

It worked perfectly fine in Cata

but they had to do the 1 legion schtick

and ruined it

[tropic trail]

Well, as long as the idea is "There is one main timeline and all we do is making sure it stays how it is supposed to", the damage is a bit limited

[hollow dock]

Back in cata there was an indefinite amount of timelines. They just existed. Bronze dragons just had to keep our timeline secure and the rest unfold as they please, without infinite interference that is.

[tropic trail]

Well, in the end is the question how you interact with it.

If you have no possibility for interconnection it doesn't matter

[hollow dock]

theidea was the 'hub'is the caverns itself

[tropic trail]

Although I think Blizz started playing it really loose in the CoT-instances after the first two (where you at least try to hide your identity and cleanse minds after the fact)

[hollow dock]

They kept that in the last three they made

Like when you go back tothe well to sneak the DragonSoul out

you're always a night elf

[tropic trail]

I mean, even in Hiyal all those stuff got out of the window and you just played the raid without ever having infinite swarm anywhere

[hollow dock]

I think that was justa 'fun'thing they did

as its noteven mentioned in chronicles

[tropic trail]

going back to my point about them writing story to satisfy gameplay^^

[hollow dock]

well to be fair for blizz

[tropic trail]

But well, pet peeves

[hollow dock]

there's no story to be had there

it was just something they did. For fun

there's not evena quest sending you there or anything

it just exists in game

[tropic trail]

Oh, that's quite a bit wrong. I remember the quest for getting in there vividly

and it was not fun in any way or form

[hollow dock]

There was an attunement quest for it

[tropic trail]

"oh, you want in this raid? better do the two hardest raidbosses in the other two raids"

[hollow dock]

but nothing in terms of a questlineorstory

[tropic trail]

brrr

Yeah, probably.

Whih I don't think is good storytelling

I mean, WoD is also more done form the end of "we want to have the original horde back for cool scenes" and than writing around to make it possible (and making some very questionable writing choices)

[dawn wolf]

god forbid you have to kill raidbosses to unlock other raids

[hollow dock]

I mean. there's no storytelling tobe had? It's literally just a raid they made. For fun. About a game everyone loved.

[tropic trail]

They could have at least made the effort to have some Infinite flight interference there.

Let it be the last boss or the second to last or something that tries to stop Malf from blowing up Archi with the wisps

[hollow dock]

Yea. But at the same time, not every gameplay element needs a story excuse IMO. Especially when its just making fun raids out of timetraveling.

[tropic trail]

And maybe one or two trashgroups that transform betwwen the major cties or something

[hollow dock]

Like imagine if they let us experience the first war

through CoT

[tropic trail]

Mhm, I prefer having an actual war that moves the story forward

[hollow dock]

You can have both. Shocking,Im sure :p

[tropic trail]

well, as blizzard has limited ressources an First War-Raid/zone whatever is one raid/zone or whatever that cannot be something actual ^^"

But I don't want to complain to much, in the end I like the game still

[strange falcon]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=284496/new-combat-ready-animations-for-hunters-in-battle-for-azeroth-build-26624

[hollow dock]

Ye we saw already fire

[strange falcon]

i scrolled up but i didnt see any post

i am greatly sorry for this repost

[rich ocean]

Forsaken have free will. But at the same time any who wish to leave the forsaken are slaughtered. Also Fenris isle.

[sudden oak]

if you try to defect to the alliance as a member of the horde no matter the race surely you will die

if that were true the argent dawn would have no forsaken member in their ranks

[rich ocean]

The fact they try to shame one of the neutral undead for bringing a letter to the horde from the alliance, and the fact nathanos does not agree with what sylvanas does says otherwise.

[sullen dagger]

eh

i just read the preview of the amazon book

just wtf

did they just killed another menethil and turned her into an undead

a friggin naaru doing necromancy shit?

[strange falcon]

we did it bois

[sullen dagger]

i'm seriously mindfucked

welp

tmi for today

[sharp bluff]

Omake, basically if your horde, don't read the previews

[sullen dagger]

why?

[sharp bluff]

it may be better in full, but the previews did it no good

Horde is bad

[sullen dagger]

i'm alliance alltheway, but the silvannas actions are form a insane person

[sharp bluff]

Previews give Genn a redemption arc

Alliance can do not evil

[wild pewter]

Not really a Redemption arc.

[sharp bluff]

close enough to it

[wild pewter]

Genn has always been a very good boy.

...No. Not really. xD

[sullen dagger]

dunno man, i'll wait for the full book, but genn is a honest man

simple as a bag of hammers, but eh

but that phrase sylvannas said when the massacre it's quite dark man

"kill them all, we cant allow these feelings of hope to spread, it's a disease"

just wtf

^those werent the exact words, but close

[sharp bluff]

well ok

Dwarven Exorcists

this was unexpected

[wild pewter]

She's totally not evil guys.

[sharp bluff]

I mean makes sense, but Dwarven Exorcists

[sullen dagger]

NOT EVEN A BITTTT

i bet my right nut she's going to be garrosh 2.0

[sharp bluff]

which is shit writing, and why i am predicting SoO 2 as a big option at this point

[sullen dagger]

another warmonger leador of the horde giong insane, by nzorth or whatever

[sharp bluff]

it porbably won't happen

but they sure as hell make it sound like it will

[sullen dagger]

what i do expect

is the black empire will show up this xpac

[sharp bluff]

oh this looks nice

[sullen dagger]

later on, mmaybe 8.2 - 8.3

[sharp bluff]

http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/734710.jpg

[sullen dagger]

warfronts?

[sharp bluff]

a full picture of the table stuff

http://www.wowhead.com/news=284410/the-story-from-the-follower-missions-in-battle-for-azeroth-spoilers?webhook/the-story-from-the-follower-missions-in-battle-for-azeroth-spoilers

[sullen dagger]

huh

[sharp bluff]

follower table story, stuff we don't see

but is going on

[terse patrol]

Genn is a good boy.

[sharp bluff]

Alliance leaders can't be evil post W3, so yes he is

he had so much potential to to be a bad guy you could relate to

[terse patrol]

Meh. I’m personally glad, because Horde players had such a hard on against him.

[sharp bluff]

but alliance still gets their hard on on the horde leader being evil

[terse patrol]

Apparently Genn is some super subversive closet evil guy.

Despite all evidence saying otherwise

Sylvanas has evidence against her though.

Lots of it.

[sharp bluff]

Way i saw it was he would not stop till the forsaken were all re-dead

that was good, i could understand that

this, all it took was seeing a single forsaken not stab someone in the back?

All it took was one person not stabbing another?

[terse patrol]

It wasn’t a single forsaken.

That was just one example.

He was watching the whole event.

[sharp bluff]

at this point it is very obvious why the his people were in a civil war

he didnt get out much

Well at least Vul'jin is coming back, I guess we at least have that going for us

[wild pewter]

Genn is just a good dude.

He wasn't the best, but that was sorted ages ago.

[rich apex]

I mean he was a raging asshole in older lore

But he got better

Mostly

[terse patrol]

Vol’jin

idk why people have such a hard time with his name

“Sylvanus!!”

[rich ocean]

Sylv anus.

[strange falcon]

inb4 sylvanas is a trap

[sharp bluff]

mainly because I think of Zul'jin

and just kinda spell it wrong from there

[karmic copper]

Oooh.. http://www.wowhead.com/news=284410/the-story-from-the-follower-missions-in-battle-for-azeroth-spoilers

So I guess Gilneas is still sort of relevant for alliance

[dense plover]

I hope they refurbish it in the long term

[karmic copper]

Hope so too

[dense plover]

Night elves could help the land regrow around there and live there

[karmic copper]

Varain said that he'd clean the plague from it

So i guess in bfa timeline its been cleaned

And ready for use and i guess, hopefully also they rebuilt the wall

[terse patrol]

Apparently the Blight can be cleansed by paladins

and by priests i assume

[dense plover]

Blight also fades over time

[karmic copper]

Hopefully they do remove the plague from there in bfa

they havent done anything with gilneas in beta last time i checked

plague still there

and no npcs still

[hollow dock]

I mean

Bronze dragons there

To reverse it apl

All*

[karmic copper]

are there?

[hollow dock]

Ye

Ziridormi. Same one thats everywhere

[karmic copper]

So the plague cleaned up?

In the city?

and outside?

[hollow dock]

The whole areas reversed?...

She winds back time for you

[karmic copper]

Before duskhaven sunk?

[hollow dock]

Which is you just get dephased into the actual tirisfall

[karmic copper]

Oh thought you were talking about Gilneas

[sharp bluff]

Doubt before duskhaven

[hollow dock]

Oh we're talking about gilneas

Nah thats not getting cleaned up. Or no plans released about doing so

[karmic copper]

They could always get those dark iron shamans to rise it up again

[dense plover]

They should clean it

[karmic copper]

They keep doing minor things with it but not including the zone

[dense plover]

It would be a good place to put the night elves

[karmic copper]

YEa

It is used for rp too on rp servers

[sharp bluff]

Gilneas does feel like it could be used, remake a few houses for stuff like a barber and AH

Would be nice

[karmic copper]

Im thinkin that at some point they might make a gilneas patch

and thered be a pre-patch thing with outside greymane wall

horde attacking from shadowfang and alliance defending at the wall

[dense plover]

It wouldn’t be a patch on its own

It would have to be expac relevant

And it’s only kind of relevant at the moment

[karmic copper]

The patch would be a big patch

Not entireally expansion big

1 new dungeon and a bg

and a campaign

worgen + goblin model updates

and some more stuff

maybe some multiplayer ship wars on the seas

could be interesting

[uncut vault]

https://youtu.be/lhM4-nxeq3I

[rich apex]

oh snap

[karmic copper]

gilneas the zone would not be big enough for an expansion

even if they split it into diffrent "zones"

[rich apex]

But no commentary on the Horde, rip

[sharp bluff]

Ok that

That reassures me

Maybe they are setting her up to kill blood blob

If voljin is still saying that even in death

I have some faith restored

[dense plover]

look

they said they want to make both sides morally grey

to do that

sylvanas has to look bad

and then turn out to have helped

[dense plover]

thus making anduin and greymane look like the bad guys

for persecuting sylvanas

[rich apex]

On the other hand

[dense plover]

thats likely the basic idea here

[rich apex]

I'll believe Anduin looking bad when I see it

[dense plover]

greymane more likely

anduin has plot armor

[sharp bluff]

they won't kill Anduin, I know it was rewritten, but he was old in the comics at one point

[dense plover]

it wasnt rewritten

thats still going to happen

as far as we know

aka plot armor

[sharp bluff]

indeed, him and old goat won't die

only 2 for sure

So I showed a buddy of mine the Voljin thing, he pointed out that it sounds like Voljin is talking to the princess

[dense plover]

no

rastakahan

he says king

talks about how the people need him

[sharp bluff]

you brought these champions to this land against your fathers will

[dense plover]

ddefinitely rastakhan

[sharp bluff]

she brought the champions not him

[dense plover]

huh

it does say that