yea they dont hit Darkshore first.
#beta-ptr-spoilers
hollow dock
mint arch
sylvanas empowered her forsaken with the power of undead waifu~
sharp bluff
follow the rivers
hollow dock
Rivers are waist deep
sharp bluff
only in game
wheat wolf
XD
sharp bluff
but yes it makes little sense, I agree there
hollow dock
They purposefully make the night elves incompetent just so the horde gets their victories
pale badger
Its not like botani will come out in Ashenvale and help them
hollow dock
and refuse to just write the horde better
hollow dock
Botani aren't nature. They're titan constructs.
The forces of nature itself are, and always have been, on the side of the night elves. They have druids that live their lives in the water for the most part. You're telling me that some Night elves didn't notice their pristine waters being tainted by some rot?
wheat wolf
I wish I could be a true neutral without staying on the wandering isle forever...
hollow dock
sadly the games built on the two faction system.
mint arch
sigh
gotta wonder, how did horde manage to get to night elf land... without being seen
wheat wolf
I know.... But still.... Alliance players often think Alliance does no wrong.... And says the Horde is evil.
Horde... Vice versa.....
I wanna be... Like the Pandaren and not be forced to choose because they both do shit I hate.
hollow dock
Here's the thing though. Alliance doesn't go willingly slaughtering civilians
the horde does
wheat wolf
Not that difficult.... You can fly from Darkshore too Teld easy...
hollow dock
So it's pretty hard to say the horde -isn't- evil
sharp bluff
to be fair Vris, Blizz hasn't wrote druids to well outside their class story and malf, remember the seal in Dalaran?
mint arch
so the horde army flew?
wheat wolf
Well... You sure about that Vris?
wheat wolf
Void... Horde has Zeps...
sharp bluff
yep, Horde has me (Zep)
hollow dock
but Night elves have Hippogryphs
mint arch
my point is, im sure someone would've seen the horde army advance
hollow dock
So air superiority is safely again in the night elves.
wheat wolf
Vris, I have seen Alliance NPCs kill unarmed Horde NPCs....
mint arch
and like vris points out... nature itself should have warned night elves
hollow dock
Oh yea? When?
Only time I can think of is that Tauren camp in the barrens, and that's explained as not alliance troops but mercenaries hired to aid in the camps attack.
wheat wolf
Beginnings of going to Pandaria as Alliance side... For one.
wheat wolf
Tauren camp for another. "Not Alliance bit mercenaries" who paid the mercs?
I'm not saying that the Horde is Rosy and innocent.
hollow dock
The alliance had paid the mercs and gave them orders to set fire to the camp. Mercs wentinto their own hands and started killing cows.
wheat wolf
But neither is the Alliance.
hollow dock
Which again WOULD HAVE ALETERD SOMEONE
terse patrol
Idk where they were housing all those giant bats though
mint arch
to argue that the alliance = horde in terms of evil shit they've done.... is really dumb
alliance have done bad shit, but not in any way as much as horde
wheat wolf
The forsaken.... Are a different matter... They were once human and once part of the alliance.
pale badger
Instead of making up how OP NE would be think out why they lost
hollow dock
They were once human and became scourge then are freed from arthas to be enslaved by Sylvanas
They lost just because the horde needed a win
that's
it
pale badger
NE aren't some omnipotent force either
hollow dock
I never said they are
but all their defenses
all their forces
Which include nature itself
the animals
wheat wolf
Then again ... So were the Belfs... Until the Alliance decided they wouldn't help as they were supposed to when the Belfs needed their aid.
terse patrol
@wheat wolf wait wat
mint arch
ya, its like the night elves have nothing
hollow dock
You're a bit behind on lore there Rhys
Lor'themar never went to the alliance or horde
He never sent out anyone to let them know they were alive post-arthas
wheat wolf
The Blood Elves were once Alliance... before Lor'themar.
hollow dock
Out of fear that because of Kael'thas, they'd want to go conqureing
and no they weren't
wheat wolf
Oh?
hollow dock
Blood elves were created post-Arthas.
After the high elves had already left the alliance
abandoning the alliance in the second war.
hollow dock
Which also involved Garithos' family. Which is why he hated elves so much
wheat wolf
Perhaps you are behind on lore.... How were Blood Elves post Arthas?
hollow dock
The blood elves were only created
terse patrol
The High Elves abandoned the Alliance at the end of the Second War.
hollow dock
BECAUSE arthas killed the majority of high elves
Do you know why they call themselves Sin'dorei in the first place?
terse patrol
After the Alliance saved them.
hollow dock
it's to honor their fallen. TO ARTHAS.
terse patrol
Because the High Elves were stuck up assholes
wheat wolf
Blood Elves were called High Elves... The High Elves were Blood Elves.
They are still stuck up assholes but besides that.
hollow dock
The blood elves left the name high elves after arthas and called themselves blood elves.
To honor their fallen. that is their name.
However there are still high elves that ran back to the alliance after arthas
wheat wolf
That doesn't change that they were who they were.
wheat wolf
They were Alliance...
wheat wolf
Actually... No it isn't.
hollow dock
Yes it is
wheat wolf
How?
hollow dock
Blood elves did not call themselves as such
terse patrol
The High Elves who are in the Alliance now are the ones who ignored the orders of King Anasterian, and went south to help the Alliance during the Second and Third War.
wheat wolf
You are splitting hairs.
hollow dock
until AFTER they pulled away from the alliance as HIGH ELVES and renamed themselves to honor their fallen
No Im stating the lore
wheat wolf
They are the same Elves.
hollow dock
Physically yes they are the same
wheat wolf
What they call themselves doesn't matter.
hollow dock
Yes it does. To the race.
that's why they called themselves a different name to begin with
wheat wolf
They WERE a part of the Alliance... The Alliance failed them. They then went to the Horde.
wheat wolf
You need to go back to your lore.
terse patrol
^
terse patrol
^
wheat wolf
-.- you missed a good chunk of lore there...
terse patrol
Ok, it’s stop talking a moment. I’ll post the basic timeline of how the High Elves ignored their ancient promises to humanity.
hollow dock
No I hadn't.
terse patrol
Let’s stop*
Ok. Troll Wars. Humanity saves the elves’ asses from being troll food. The elves promise to aid humanity if they ever come into danger. Fast forward three thousand years. First War. Orcs attack. I’ll give them a pass here, because this was wholey unexpected. Nobody expected fel infused barbarians from a giant portal.
Second War. The FIRST time the elves abandoned humanity.
terse patrol
The Orcs invade Lordaeron. This was bad shit. They asked the elves to help, but they refuse.
Alleria says fuck that.
Takes a bunch of elves south to help. King Anasterian is super butthurt.
hollow dock
Don't forget the bit where the orcs managed to get up to Quel'thalas and then that's when the high elves join in larger force.
terse patrol
The Elves are then FORCED to join when the Orcs and Trolls invade them. Lord Garithos (THAT Garithos) comes to their aid and helps drive them out of Quel’thalas. In the process, his family is wiped out.
hollow dock
the elves refused to help his family from being wiped out btw*
that's an important footnote
terse patrol
Ye
Third War:
Wait
Ok.
Post-Second War
Elves abandon the Alliance after they were saved by them.
Third War.
Some priests from Quel’thalas go south to help. King Anasterian decides to be an isolationist dick again. They then act surprised when the Scourge invades Quel’thalas.
Later, the Blood Elves blame all their woes on humans because Garithos.
@wheat wolf Simple enough?
Scroll up to the top of my posts, because I was pretty comprehensive.
Basically, Quel’thalas is unreliable as fuck.
hollow dock
something to note that Garithos is such a dick because of how the high elves treated him
So really it's not even his fault in full. (even though yes he did just hate all non-humans)
harsh canyon
Garithos was a dick still besides ruining shit
hollow dock
yea and we did note that.
harsh canyon
Dude hated on Dwarves and Gnomes as well
terse patrol
Yes.
hollow dock
Yup but as did say, most of their mistreatement was due to the whole "Letting his family die" thing
hollow dock
they can scroll up
terse patrol
People conveniently disappear when I explain shit, it feels like.
vale idol
can you do the same for Gilneas?
terse patrol
Gilneas was in the wrong.
Well, more specifically, Genn was.
He split Gilneas in half.
vale idol
not trying to stir smth up, I just genuinely know fuck all about Gilneas and dunno where to read up on that
terse patrol
Wowpedia
harsh canyon
Okay. So. Went up to read and I have to agree, Blood Elves are mostly isolated unless there is rewards for them. Why in Mists they were tempted to leave until Jaina Proudmoore does what she does best and screws things over
harsh canyon
No, I would argue the issue would still exist. With the Horde, They don't need to do fuck except show up and talk.
The only time they were really called to pick up there weight was Pandaria
hollow dock
Essentially Garrosh was showing that he was pretty hostile to non-orcs
So teh blood elves wanted to cut their losses
but then garrosh forces them to break the treaty of dalaran
and the rest is history
also blood elves did a lot in BC.
harsh canyon
True, But that was their focus and the Horde wanted them as Allies
So the Horde willing lent aid to them due to Sylvanas having a deep connection with her homeland before she changed after throwing herself off Icecrown
hollow dock
yup pretty much
harsh canyon
After that Blood Elves were mostly focused on home until Sylvanas asked for aid in what few Blood Elves they could spare to represent the Horde in Dalaran and in the Northrend Offensive
hollow dock
and Lor'themar never was the one to send out aid. Cuz he thought Kael'thas just made things to bad for them
wel dalaran was themselves. not Syvlanas
harsh canyon
I would check my lore book, but it's propping my TV at the moment
hollow dock
the sunreaver leader asked for more blood elves to fight against the blue dragons and no one believed they'd be an issue
until they became an issue
fuckin no one has any foresight I swear
harsh canyon
To be fair, Dragons are a bunch of dicks who never explain things outright until shit is bad
pale badger
On Azeroth almost everyone thinks "Nah, I can handle it"
harsh canyon
"You mortals will never understand"
I understand that I am a bajillion years younger and more mature then you
pale badger
Well I still do not Understand deal with Bolvar but k, I am not Dragon
hollow dock
Essentially
Bolvar dies
but the dragons fire kept him alive
as red dragons fire also heals/creates life
harsh canyon
Dragonfire + Plague = Eternal Life
hollow dock
so bolvar is in this perpetual state of agony and purgatory in the living world
pale badger
Why only him?
harsh canyon
Because he is a great warrior the Lich King tried to turn into a DK
hollow dock
it's assumed that it'sbecause hewas the only one dying as the flames hit him
rather than being completely dead and gone
So that spark was preserved by the red dragons fire. Alexstrasza even notes it in draconic when you revisit the area.
pale badger
Bolvar will bring little sake Lich King 2.0 to force us to end Gis suffering?
pale badger
Wrathion vs Bolvar brawl for who will screw Alex
hollow dock
wrathion hates alex what
ruby star
Wrathion will probs support the Alliance or do nothing at all
pale badger
Wrathion is salty about attempts of playing with his egg
ruby star
cause I mean he was in the alliance embassy then got removed
harsh canyon
I hate it
pale badger
Not really
hollow dock
just not on screen
ruby star
Not sure in his rule in BFA
harsh canyon
He PREDICTED Legion
ruby star
maybe he supports Anduin? maybe not who knows
harsh canyon
He gained POWER for Legion
In Mists, we gave him power so he could start protecting the world against the Legion
Legion invades
HE DOES FUCK ALL
ruby star
xD
pale badger
I am sure most ppl forgot
hollow dock
He was also in WoD. Where he was at taylors garrison and warned em of the necromancer. Then he shows up at Khadgar's tower as a whelp flying around but doesn't talk to us and then he appears to show up in legion as Ebonhorn goes to deal with a 'family matter' while we trudge through the dungeon
pale badger
8n scenario of Highmountain?
terse patrol
Its funny though how the Sunreavers had yet another traitor in Legion, and Dalaran chose to hide that information to prevent internal issues
hollow dock
modera wats that dik
harsh canyon
I see the WoD one. But Legion just states
Durning the third invasion of the Burning Legion, Wrathion wandered around Azeroth.
terse patrol
Modera gots that guilt
harsh canyon
I am pretty sure Ebonhorne was dealing with reinforcements or something
hollow dock
If you do the dungeon, Neltharion's later, Ebonhorn goes off to deal with a "Family matter".
terse patrol
She did nothing to stop Garithos from trying to kill the Belves
wheat wolf
https://youtu.be/fEi0z3Bdd8M
About the 25 minute mark... To save you the time.
harsh canyon
Unless we get text saying Wrathion was the one pulling Darguls Strings
steel venture
wrathion doesnt really actually hate alexstasza in specific
he hates that many red dragons wanted to kep him as a trophy and "keep an eye on him"
steel venture
rheastrasza LITERALLY was performing immoral experiments in the name of "cleansing the black dragonflight"
hollow dock
Consdering that wrathion is cousins with Ebonhorn and all that.
All at the behest of Alex mind you
steel venture
she was kind of acting no better than nefarian, when you think about it.
she was forcing wrathion's mother to lay eggs so that she could havest them and study them / experiment on them
sharp bluff
🍿 now this is the info I like, don't forget all those new datamined black dragons
hollow dock
yea wrathion didn't wipe em all out.
harsh canyon
Actually, I would say that I would buy it if Dargul was working for Wrathion for the hammer since the Hammer can uncorrupt eggs and is super powerful.
Which sounds like something Wrathion would wnat
hollow dock
He just killed the ones that he knewabout
steel venture
wrathion is LITERALLY a chimera
as he is created from one of those harvested eggs, one of nyxondria's wild eggs, and one of nyxondria's wild whelps
all spliced together with that titanic device
like, no wonder he's fucked up in the head
hollow dock
he's also like
steel venture
despite being "uncorrupted"
steel venture
would be turning 5 in BFA now
terse patrol
tbh, I think if Kael’thas wanted, he could have taken Garithos out and lead the remnants of the Alliance in Lordaeron.
hollow dock
most certainly
terse patrol
Buuuut
terse patrol
Eh
Most of his soldiers didnt like him, they followed him because they felt they didnt have much else.
harsh canyon
To be fair, Sylvanas was freed because Kael'thas helped Illidan
terse patrol
lets be 100% real
If Burning Crusade was well written
Kael’thas would still be with us today.
hollow dock
oh hey rhys is back
harsh canyon
How is Kil'jaeden deleting Kael's emails "Poor writing"
wheat wolf
Was finding the lore that I know of, backed by streamed evidence.
harsh canyon
Because of lack of communication and answers to a problem
And Illidan being a withdrawn dick with his ideas and schemes
terse patrol
Kael’thas would never have turned to the Legion.
harsh canyon
Kael'thas went with the 'last resort' in his mind because he is a druggie
terse patrol
bruh
harsh canyon
ALL BLOOD ELVES WERE ADDICTS
terse patrol
Kael’thas has a vial from the Well of Eternity. He could have made a new Sunwell.
Had*
wheat wolf
Druggie... Snorts
That's like calling people with pale skin "weak" because they sunburn easily.
terse patrol
Instead, Blizzard carved out his character in favor of “WE NEED A RAID BOSS”
wheat wolf
10,000 years of evolution.
harsh canyon
10,000 years of snorting manawater
wheat wolf
Made the Blood Elves dependant upon magic.
terse patrol
Instead, Blizzard had him go
wheat wolf
As if you could write it better? Funny.
terse patrol
“I’m going to turn on my convictions and the entirety of the character they’d written for me, and become a cliche bad guy insane boi.”
Yes.
harsh canyon
The fall of Kael'thas is tragic and is one of the things most Blood Elves hurt for and I like that.
terse patrol
I could absolutely write it better.
hollow dock
It wasnt anywhere near 10,000
Tw
Btw*
The exiling of the highborne came in around 7000 and they didnt become high elves until the 6900-6800 time frame.
harsh canyon
Gonna look into that 'Sunwell water' he had since the only vial on hand was of before
When the Sunwell was made
terse patrol
Not Sunwell water
harsh canyon
What was on hand was a human girl made from the Sunwell that NO ONE REALLY KNEW ABOUT
hollow dock
Korial made Aveena to perserve what little of the well was left uncorrupted
hollow dock
Anveena*
terse patrol
He totally had the means to make a brand new Sunwell.
wheat wolf
Well of Eternity, the High Elves (later Blood Elves) only had ONE vial that had been in Illidan's possession. They used it to make the Sunwell.
Meaning... There wasn't any more to make another.
terse patrol
ARE YOU
hollow dock
Illidan gave kael another
terse patrol
KIDDING ME
wheat wolf
When?
terse patrol
Read what I am saying.
terse patrol
In Outland, as a reward for aiding him.
wheat wolf
I have read what you are saying.
And you are getting your timelines so mixed up.
terse patrol
No.
terse patrol
You’re being willfully ignorant.
wheat wolf
Says you, who, is acting like a know-it-all ass.
mint arch
loool
wheat wolf
Watch this, and get your timeline straight.
https://youtu.be/fEi0z3Bdd8M
mint arch
that nobbel vid is from 2015
wheat wolf
Don't need it updated to now.
We aren't talking about now... We aren't even talking about Pandaria.
wheat wolf
Right...
Because streamed vid of the actual game is not accurate?
terse patrol
Also.
hollow dock
CHRONICLES REWROTE A LOT OF THE LORE M8
terse patrol
Do yourself a favor Rhys.
And go real the page on Wowpedia for Kael’thas.
Read*
Nobbel is good at lore, but he makes a fair few mistakes too.
wheat wolf
Streamed vid of the LORE of the GAME as it is being played... Is not accurate? You resort to rewritten books?
Wowpedia.... Where anyone can change it? Sure.
tropic trail
anyone know if there's an update due for beta today/tomorrow?
hollow dock
YES THE UPDATED BOOKS
wheat wolf
Funny idiots you are.
terse patrol
THE VIAL LITERALLY DROPS OFF OF HIM.
hollow dock
THAT OWNS THE GAMES LORE
terse patrol
You fucking idiot.
wheat wolf
The game hasn't changed its lore.
sharp bluff
@wheat wolf Chronicles is the confirmed canon now, a lot of old lore has been updated
wheat wolf
And the books and the game aren't meshing.
hollow dock
YES THEY DO
wheat wolf
I'll stick with the game. It came first.
hollow dock
BLIZZARD STATED CHRONICLES IS FULLY CANON TO EVERYTHING
Ok fine
Be ignorant as fuck
sharp bluff
Rhy seriously, Chronicles is blizz official, they came out with it to explain ALL canon
to ignore it means you dont care about the lore
wheat wolf
The name is Rhys, not Rhy.
Not everyone is able to access the books.
But access to the game is easier in video streaming.
sharp bluff
the book was basically out on wowhead months ago
harsh canyon
And I'm Zydormi, so what Reeses Peanut Butter Cup
sharp bluff
they covered half the books
tranquil steeple
Doesn't make Chronicles invalid, because you can't access them.
sharp bluff
your not looking that hard
wheat wolf
Oh sure, like I hadn't heard that one before, what are you, 2?
But that is my favourite candy.
sharp bluff
true
harsh canyon
Infinite Dragon, So who knows when
sharp bluff
one last thing Vris
steel venture
Nobbel isn't a lore god.
We ... actually have one of the primary Wowpedia moderators in here that actually is a far better source on lore help than Nobbel's videos.
And thats MyMindWontQuiet.
mint arch
lawl, ignoring the chronicle
hollow dock
Yea most of those retcons arent actually retcons
terse patrol
He had a vial of Well of Eternity waters. And instead, Blizzard had him turn on ALL of his convictions.
Because they needed a raid boss.
Rather than make a new character.
sharp bluff
steel venture
most of the retcons aren't full on retcons because they're mostly things we already knew were retconned already, for a little while
sharp bluff
I wonder when The fat prince will be a raid boss... I can't wait to kill him
terse patrol
Burning Crusade as an expansion was literally just " GUIZ REMEMBER FROZEN THRONE?" the expansion.
hollow dock
So was WotLK
harsh canyon
loot Kiljaedens bedroom
find crossdressing Kael mind controlled in a cage acting like a bimbo
Solved
wheat wolf
I don't know if there is an update 410rn, I can ask a friend of mine for ya. She might know.
hollow dock
I think the only in game thing that doesnt mesh is two quests in the belf starting area
steel venture
Honestly the treatment of Kael'thas wasn't as dreadful as other antagonists tbh.
Need I remind y'all that Neltharion was a tactful, analytical individual that typically pulled the strings from the shadows or used blatant intimidation to get what he wanted.
Instead of "RAAAAAAAAR RAAAAAAAAAR I AM DEAAAAATH!!!!"
harsh canyon
Is it the ones modified for Cata?
terse patrol
I'll agree, but Kael was more important imo.
hollow dock
How abkut arthas not killing Tirion
harsh canyon
Deathwing
Less important then an elf
steel venture
lmao yeah arthas taunting and letting "tiron watch the heros die" makes
No sense
if his plan was
"if these heros got to me, i'm killing all of them and raising them into my most powerful undead"
which would've
obviously included the highlord too, wouldn't it? eAe
harsh canyon
🤔
terse patrol
Deathwing is technically more important, but he has much less story impact overall than Kael'thas did. Kael'thas also had a fan base.
Deathwing did not.
steel venture
Deathwing did have a fanbase too, how they made him enter WoW's story was really really bad tbh.
mint arch
🐉
terse patrol
A lot of people wanted to see Kael'thas return. Instead, they got psycho crack addict Kael'thas who is nothing like he was in Warcraft 3.
hollow dock
The initial trailwr was fantastical.
sharp bluff
I think he planned on having the Heroes kil Tiron, as a plan to break his mind, making him easier to turn @steel venture
hollow dock
But then the rest of cata happened
steel venture
It was ... really slapped on without much thought, and he was dumbed down ridiculously to make him "easier to understand" for newer players.
harsh canyon
Infinite expansion where we change the Third War
steel venture
So instead of horrifying black dragon we got a stupid molten husk screaming every five seconds.
hollow dock
Giving us
harsh canyon
Sylvanas on Sylvanas catfight
hollow dock
HIGH ELVWS
terse patrol
lmao, alt Sylvanas joining the Alliance.
harsh canyon
I gotta stop me
ruby star
did someone say HIGH ELVES
harsh canyon
Just make Blood Elves a neutral faction with a human disguised as a tree offer to steal you away to Stormwind to report as a Spy
wild pewter
Tbh Nobbel near reads WoWHead/WoWWiki word for word, even the dungeon journal ingame
terse patrol
Nobbel isn’t some lore god like people thinks he is.
ruby star
@harsh canyon worst idea
terse patrol
I’m an autist who’s been deep in it since before he even had a Youtube channel. I’m not famous, but I know my shit.
ruby star
Blood Elves don;t need to be neutral they are horde
While High ELves are already alliance xD
ruby star
We don't want comprimisng
thats the problem
giving us more comprises is just gonna make it worse
terse plank
I wouldn't mind if Blizzard made Blood Elves / High Elves "neutral" like Pandaren and you just chose a faction with unique customisation options for each one so that alliance had optional void aligned and horde were Light aligned (golden eyes)
wild pewter
Anyway is there meant to be some big build today?
sharp bluff
Ok ok, troll elfs
hollow dock
Thats night elves zep
harsh canyon
Mecha Elves
terse plank
Don't Zandalari call themselves the "elves" of trolls or something lol
hollow dock
Sadly neutrals wont happen.
terse plank
What would be be horde? 🤔
harsh canyon
Forsaken Elf varient for Dark Rangers
terse plank
Aren't "most elves" the Kaldorei?
sharp bluff
Most variants
harsh canyon
Actually, Since my daily blood gifts to Blizz dont work
Is there Drahonmaw option for Maghar?
Simce no Beta
terse plank
Uhhh there's blackrock which have semi glowy eyes but not like dragonmaw do
sharp bluff
Laughing skull
harsh canyon
Bah
harsh canyon
Warsong
hollow dock
Wait were dragonmaw apart of the clans inDraenor?
sharp bluff
Not that I can remember
steel venture
dragonmaw did exist but they were called something else
hollow dock
Like I know they were here on Azeroth
harsh canyon
Dragonmaw is a dialect change and formed later I think
terse plank
Frostwolf and warsong are kinda under the same thing aesthetically since frostwolf are the same tone but without tattoos or something
hollow dock
but I dont recall them being on Draenor.
terse plank
Also dragons are native to Azeroth
harsh canyon
Dialect
steel venture
they were called Nelghor-shomash on Draenor as per Chronicle II
hollow dock
I know the blood orc tribe. Forgot its called.
steel venture
Which meant "Cry of the Beasts" and they rode on rylaks.
hollow dock
Rylaks. Dreanor's shitty dragons
steel venture
so its a translation thing
to them rylak was parallel enough to "dragon"
so they ended up changing "Cry of the Beasts" to
"Dragonmaw"
you can see where the translation change shifts then
harsh canyon
Frostwolf probably means "Breath of Dog"
steel venture
for common
hollow dock
or cold wold
wolf*
or they're just named after the actual Frost Wolves in the area.
ruby star
AU were murlocs rule Azeroth
steel venture
hollow dock
Right I gotcha Nile
harsh canyon
Anyway, Shower for this Dragon
I will share my thoughts on how to make AU Yrel scary
Later
hollow dock
Are people angry with it? Are they excited? I dont understand
terse plank
I'm not even mad I just find it hilarious they're switching talents around like that in circles
terse patrol
Don’t worry.
In an expansion or two, everyone will be “neutral” Alliance/Horde wise.
We Light followers will be killing your Void followers though.
terse plank
"are we the bad guys?"
Obviously to make things "morally grey" blizzard will make both factions commit war crimes or something so everyone is a bad guy 
harsh canyon
Back
Anyway, To make Yrel threatening
Make it that she and her followers never killed anyone
They drag corpses back to ress and indoctornate them
hollow dock
I dont feel like resurrection is a fully canon/easy thing to do
hollow dock
Shes converting. Not killing if she can help iirc
sharp bluff
Light is obviously the wrong side to be on Honk, I mean honestly 😉 Void is so in right now
sharp bluff
Meanwhile us in camp f-undead refuse both 😄
mint arch
speaking of Yrel, if she isnt massacring orcs, lol to the ppl crying about the whole story in AU draenor
the same orcs from the iron horde
and i think ppl are confusing that the lightbound (or w/e they're called) = orcs, not the draenei
sharp bluff
well most of the iron horde orcs are dead, we know that
hollow dock
Gotta react rather than look at the source and realize it's a whole lotta nothing
sharp bluff
since only the living clans are allied with the horde as skins
er well, the iron horde that did not join Guldan that is
like Blackrock
I would think after, what 30 years on AU?, that the only orcs left to kill are the "good" ones
notice I said good in quotes
terse patrol
Yrel’s Draenei and Orc friends are Lightforging the Draenor Orcs. By force or by choice.
Some will die by necessity/accident, and I’m sure Yrel hates that.
sharp bluff
You mean the light hates that she could not convert them?
hollow dock
Do we know its legitimate lightforging?
all we know is that they're becoming Lightbound (which is a faction)
terse patrol
It’s like Lothraxion. He was a demon, but he was Lightforged and “shown the Light.”
Yes. @hollow dock
steel venture
its lightforging.
terse patrol
We saw one of the Draenei NPCs
sharp bluff
At this point the "by force" part seems unlike her, I am thinking the light does the thinking for her now
terse patrol
They have the golden eyes.
steel venture
the lightbound wear the argus gear for lack of "lightforged" options for mag'har
terse patrol
And golden armor
hollow dock
Im holding judgement until it's explicitly said or we see the tats.
sharp bluff
The light corrupts all that it touches, join the lightbound now!
mint arch
i really dont like how blizzard are making the light :/
sharp bluff
do you mean making the light grey void?
hollow dock
It's what the light has always been.
terse patrol
@hollow dock
hollow dock
A force to use
People, turalyon, clerics, etc
have used it for good
That does not make it inherently good
sharp bluff
do we have any lighbound orcs yet?
terse patrol
mint arch
but the naaru have done good things
terse patrol
What he used to look like
mint arch
ive yet to see any void lords do good things
hollow dock
Why did his head crest disappear?
sharp bluff
Naaru also turn to the void
mint arch
so i dunno why blizzard want the light to be "grey"
hollow dock
and the void lords aren't the only shadow users out there.
steel venture
yeah he's bugged rn
hollow dock
the naaru have done good by us and with us because we've aligned with them. Not once have we actually gone against a non-corrupt Naaru to face their wrath
terse patrol
But yeah. It seems a new Prime Naaru might have arrived on Draenor to interfere.
hollow dock
So how can you judge what they'd do to you if you only see their rewards and none of the punishments?
sharp bluff
Let me put it this way, undeath is considered "evil" yes?
light battles undeath, that makes them consider light "good",
Light also heals, which is "good"
terse patrol
Showing the Orcs the LIGHT
mint arch
im not saying using the light for evil doesnt happen
thats fine
im saying the light itself, the naaru
blizzard want to make them grey
tropic trail
I'm honestly curious if there was any light worshipping orcs in our Draenor.
sharp bluff
Well the light does Corupt, we saw it in legion
steel venture
just like the void itself does not care about you
terse patrol
Eh. False.
mint arch
its never been about spreading light
hollow dock
The naaru isn't the light
sharp bluff
it tries to assimilate Illidan
steel venture
it is now
hollow dock
The Light is it's own force
mint arch
thats the new "grey" shit blizzrar are adding
steel venture
that is the canon for it now
mint arch
and i find that really meh
hollow dock
It never was the Naaru were the light
steel venture
so its canon now
cant do much else to fight against it
hollow dock
they were embodiments of Light
mint arch
u dont need to make the naaru grey
tropic trail
The light is it's own entity though.
terse patrol
The Light loves. The Light feeds on compassion, love, etc. But its love is blind, commanding.
hollow dock
They aren't grey
mint arch
u have the void lords
hollow dock
they are doing good
tropic trail
So the naaru can't be the light.
hollow dock
for themselves
sharp bluff
they have always been grey though void, they turn into void in a cycle
mint arch
why forced? why would the naaru force?
hollow dock
Like I dont see how that's hard to understand that good/evil are completely perspective based
Xe'ra
terse patrol
^
mint arch
its never forced before
hollow dock
Xe'ra literally tried to FORCE illidan to join the light
steel venture
that it does
terse patrol
Naaru aren’t Prime Naaru.
steel venture
theres nothing we can do about it.
terse patrol
A’dal is not a Prime Naaru.
steel venture
this is the story direction now
sharp bluff
Priest order hall shows Naaru are also void lords
mint arch
yes, its canon NOW because blizzard have made it canon in their attempt to make the light "grey"
sharp bluff
so...
terse patrol
Prime Naaru are much more convicted in their pursuit of the Light.
sharp bluff
^
tropic trail
And the fact that Xe'ra tried to force Alleria to come back to the light after discovering the forces of the void
terse patrol
Lesser Naaru have a more nuanced view.
hollow dock
just as much for good
steel venture
okay but seriously voidox think about this
why would the Light taking over the universe be a GOOD THING?
how could it be any less worse than the Void taking over?
hollow dock
and it was in the Scarlet Crusade
steel venture
BOTH would upset the balance of the universe
terse patrol
I mean, to be fair.
hollow dock
^
tropic trail
I'm honestly curious is someone could wield both powers at once though
hollow dock
They've been pushing tha tsince pandaria
terse patrol
A universe ruled by Light would be its own fascism, but everyone would be happy (forcibly), and alive.
tropic trail
True.
terse patrol
A universe filled with Void would be empty, and full of death. But yeah, total freedom. But you’re dead.
Hence why people want a balance.
mint arch
meh, the lore is now light = fascism
sharp bluff
the light only cares for those it can turn to its cause, your welcome to correct me if I am wrong here, a good example of this is with the forsaken, notice how some still praise the light? but the light forsakes them? yes it is based on faith, but if the light can not USE the person praising it, it throws them away
hollow dock
Light has always been that though.
tropic trail
Light does not equal fascism.
hollow dock
Again I show you the scarlets who made their light usage to be just that
mint arch
usage of light =/= light itself
hollow dock
Light's always been a neutral, non-sentient, force of the universe. Just like shadow.
mint arch
i agree ppl have used light in all ways
hollow dock
It doesn't choose who it answers too
mint arch
and thats fine
tropic trail
My question is
tropic trail
Do the elements work in the same way?
steel venture
it doesnt really care what you fully use it for either as long as you're still using it
hollow dock
the elements are all sentient
steel venture
and no the elements are sapient
hollow dock
a Shaman can lose his connection to the elements if they choose
steel venture
and can actively reject or accept people
hollow dock
which is what happens in Rise of the Horde
steel venture
and what happened to thrall now
sharp bluff
Speaking of the light... I wonder if troll paladins can teach forsaken how to be paladins again?
hollow dock
The shaman turn on the draenei and the elements abandon them
Forsaken can always be paladins
just none of them are crazy enough to do it
tropic trail
I mean, it'd be extremely painful for forsaken to be paladins though.
sharp bluff
I mean as a player class
hollow dock
that's up to blizzard
steel venture
why would troll paladins teach forsaken???
hollow dock
not lore
sharp bluff
I would totally be crazy enough to be one 😄
hollow dock
lore already states they can be
terse patrol
Forsaken can’t be paladins because it doesn’t fit the current faction motif.
sharp bluff
well Troll paladins pull strength from loa
terse patrol
Because a Forsaken paladin would hate Sylvanas.
steel venture
like how by lore, trolls having priests is more yknow
"loa priest" than "holy priest"
tropic trail
Not always.
terse patrol
^
sharp bluff
so why not have forsaken pull strength from idk, a loa?
tropic trail
I still think Night Elves need to become paladins
steel venture
doesn't thematically fit
hollow dock
Why would a loa give them their strength Zep?
terse patrol
That would be stupid as fuck
hollow dock
Which?
tropic trail
I think the loa are the counter to wild gods aren't they?
hollow dock
Oh bwonsomdi?
hollow dock
He wouldn't really be giving them light
steel venture
bwonsamdi doesnt
like undead creatures
hollow dock
^
terse patrol
Forsaken holy priests exist. But they follow Alonsus Faol, who. . . guess what.
Isn’t in the Horde.
steel venture
if its undead he cant reap its soul
hollow dock
There's also a Duke that's forsaken
sharp bluff
he rezs us Nile
steel venture
and that makes him very salty
sharp bluff
he is the Spirit guide on Zandalar
tropic trail
I mean, the remaining forsaken that are in the Scarlet Crusade use the light too.
sharp bluff
he also summons undead at least once himself
hollow dock
Yes they do which is why I say
steel venture
"Whatchu doin' here mon? It ain't your time---<snickers> yet."
hollow dock
the lore doesn't give any possible reasons for forsaken to not be paladins
it's all up to blizz
sharp bluff
back when the trolls retake their island, he summons ghouls
terse patrol
Sylvanas would need redemption to allow Forsaken paladins.
hollow dock
at an instant
steel venture
he summons spirit champions i thought?
terse patrol
Or she’d need to die.
steel venture
last time i saw that it was spirit champs and not legit undead
as in like shambling ghouls or zombies or anything
sharp bluff
which is why i could see him ofering his help to gather souls of forsaken, think about it, he controls dead, he can take their spirits
instead of
forsaken going to hell
Yes a stretch
but would be cool
steel venture
yeah but
once again
doesnt thematically fit
terse patrol
It’s dumb.
steel venture
forsaken dont worship loa
terse patrol
Forsaken are still humans.
sharp bluff
he has non trolls in his underworld
terse patrol
And the Loa do not care much for humans.
steel venture
yeah, the non-trolls are other loa-worshipers
sharp bluff
is faith
hollow dock
actually doing
steel venture
if i recall its just tortollans and minor things
terse patrol
^
sharp bluff
I thought there was a tuskar in there from the datamining?
steel venture
EX: Zandalari, Sethrak, Tortollans and Vulpera would be all 'fair game' to Bwonsamdi because they worship loa.
sharp bluff
and didn't he try to take a human? and voljin bargained with him
terse patrol
Sethrak worship Sethraliss specifically.
sharp bluff
or was that someone else
hollow dock
He tried to take that hunter meng because of Vol'jin and spared him.
cuz Vol'jins marked
steel venture
Vol'jin owes Bwonsamdi, a LOT.
So anybody who dies around Vol'jin is fair game in his book too.
hollow dock
In which we also know that Bwon isn'tgetting every single soul that dies
Otherwise the Vrykul would wide up there.
instead of Helheim and HoV
steel venture
Loa can owe other loa.
terse patrol
o
hollow dock
he still owes a lot
that whole thing with Bwon getting him back the echo isles
and sparing his friend
steel venture
Gonk tricked the other loa for example and basically forced 'em to allow Darkspear to be druids.
Loa are, little shits.
hollow dock
They're like the ancestors from Mulan essentially.
terse patrol
hollow dock
basically the loa and how they act.
terse patrol
sharp bluff
Makes sense loa are largely unexplored this players
woeful sandal
Guys, I need to get something cleared. We used to have 12 character slots, now 16. We will get 2 more when the Dwarves and Zandalari come out in BFA. But... will we get an additional 2 for Kul'tiran and Maghar (meaning 20 slots), or are we just going to have 18 still?
hollow dock
I dont actually think we're getting more.
More so I dont remember them tleling us we're getting more slots
sharp bluff
Idk actually, they said we will get more at some point I thought, but Vris remembers better then me
woeful sandal
I was thinking we would get 1 more for each additional allied races added. Would make sense.. but never know..
rich apex
Could've sworn they specifically said a new server slot for each Allied Race
BUT
Still not raising the 50 cap for accounts
sharp bluff
Well we were always one short for base races so idk
woeful sandal
So that would make it 20 with Mag'har and Kul"tirans
sharp bluff
If they do that maybe
woeful sandal
It would make no sense if they didn't. Adding more races only for people not to be able to play them because they're already playing earlier allied races
hollow dock
I just want fun races to play
to be fair, outside of roleplayers, ther'es no way you dont have space on most servers for more characters.
Like I'm on a server that is tripple linked, so I have 30+ slots open.
steel venture
even if you're a roleplayer you figure out how to bind several RP characters to a single character too >> to save on space
terse patrol
They’ll add new slots. They said they would.
sharp bluff
just not when?
mint arch
i wish the kul'tirans were proper muscle thicc and not.... fat :/
terse patrol
When the new races are added.
steel venture
but yeah
new slots per race added
but no increasing the 50 cap
sharp bluff
that um, that is proper muscle
oak wraith
I'm on one of the big EU RP servers. It's not linked. And yeah, there will be slots added (per server, not total) for more chars when the races get released.
terse patrol
Kul Tiran males look fine.
mint arch
^
sharp bluff
the body builders? that is unhealthy muscle
mint arch
males are aite
terse patrol
The females kinda look like stay at home moms
mint arch
^
steel venture
well, kul tiran women not so much :c
they're too mom-like
mint arch
aye
steel venture
they need those BEEFY ARMS too
sharp bluff
ok I can agre with that
oak wraith
The males look like stay at home dads?
sharp bluff
lumberjacks
terse patrol
The females look ok in the new armor
hollow dock
Not into muscles.
steel venture
👏 where's 👏 the 👏 beef 👏
sharp bluff
muscle head
mint arch
better than fat
sharp bluff
Zarya is a bodybuilder, a whole race of body builders? yuck
steel venture
^ if your girl cant crush you with her thighs whats the point
mint arch
combine em
steel venture
zarya's really not a bodybuilder lmao
mint arch
give them fat but they need some muscle
steel venture
she's not that ridiculously muscled
hollow dock
That is her lore?...
sharp bluff
yes
terse patrol
Zarya is hot af tho @hollow dock
mint arch
overwatch lore 
hollow dock
She is a body builder that fought for her homeland during the omnic crisis
terse patrol
Zarya is waifu
steel venture
olympic bodybuilder =/= show bodybuilder
sharp bluff
so yes, her body is unrealistic for a whole race
steel venture
olympic athletes have to be actually healthily muscular, not steroid induced messes.
terse patrol
But ye
hollow dock
We didn't say or elude to that Nile
mint arch
even the males have too much of a belly, but they are overall fine
the females, there was that post with changes to their faces
make it more... rugged or w/e
looked a lot better
terse patrol
I do wish the Kul Tiran females looked less pudgy. It’s their belly that’s the issue
terse patrol
More muscle tone too
mint arch
cause females right now just look like normal female model... stretched out
terse patrol
sharp bluff
One eyed wanda
steel venture
ugh yeah seriously though
allied race faces are
pretty bad thus far
void elf female ""faces"" are just really "how much makeup?"
sharp bluff
Not on horde side
hollow dock
I like em.
terse patrol
I was hoping we’d get some black faces.
terse patrol
Because its weird af seeing humans with dark skin but white facial features
steel venture
I was hoping we'd get some black faces / black hairstyles due to the skintone options for once, yeah.
sharp bluff
Stranglethorn
steel venture
and the fact that the updated kid models have the proper hairstyles for the black skintones but not ... the adults?...
its jarring
sharp bluff
Kid forsaken when?
steel venture
even bigger than how big the human ones were
hollow dock
Why would kid forsaken even exist
The forsaken don't raise people for shits and giggles
terse patrol
Night elves dont even have a kid model
steel venture
they do....
like god remember the one who's supposed to be like what
12-13
but she's just a scaled down adult model
from ashenvale
terse patrol
lol
hollow dock
I think she's also in Stormwind
that night elf that's eternally sitting on one of the bridges
steel venture
shes the kid that always gets sick, thats not her
white hair + ...FOR SOME REASON FACIAL TATS?
despite
being a kid
but ok
like blizz seriously just does not care about the story they've given to nelves lmao
kids with facial tats... despite it being canon (and not only from the RPG) that the facial tatts = rite of passage for female nelves.
terse patrol
Thats not the best thing
woeful sandal
inb4 Murloc allied race
terse patrol
Night Elves are neglected as hell
split valley
I forgot. When is BfA launch date ?
terse patrol
August 14 atm
split valley
Thank you.
terse patrol
That might change again
steel venture
imo i feel like it definitely might get bumped back to an early september release
jade basalt
So the ending of the Vol'jin quest chain so far has you bring his urn to Bwonsamdi's Necropolis so they can have a "chat"
hollow dock
interesting
steel venture
inb4 bownsamdi told vol'jin to make sylvanas warchief so he could actually deliver on his debt because he was sucking at it
hollow dock
that'd be comical
jade basalt
Have you guys talked about the Vol'jin questline at all or should I link the pics ?
hollow dock
We talked about it when the dialogue was first datamined
haven't heard of any updates to it
ivory palm
Huge content patch today in the beta, is it true ?
jade basalt
I'm going to have to link the pics this way or they'll clog the entire channel.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445652329195241473/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445653189891457044/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445653370020036609/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445654377814949888/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445656205743095813/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445657296627040256/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445657884945154059/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445658116353294336/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445658185186017291/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445660112212983809/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445660231255588865/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445660412537602049/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445660672286523412/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445661524527284224/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445661930187653131/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445834806106914816/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411187738520322050/445837861724356618/unknown.png
(not my pics)
^ Vol'jin questline
steel venture
... imgur album?
hollow dock
Oh cool Zen'tabra is back
jade basalt
She's also part of the druid campaign in Legion as a champion and showed up in the G'Hanir questline
steel venture
zen'tabra is ❤
hollow dock
thats a bit odd that the Princess would note that her father was tempted by Zul.
jade basalt
No no, she's talking about Cata/MoP, where he convinced him to send the fleet and recruit the other trolls into 1 empire and everything, but Vol'jin was the only one who refused
hollow dock
Right, where Zul tried to. but Talanji said her father was also tempted by Zul into joining. But the story we got is that he gave Zul the token forces to be rid of him.
or am I misreading that screenshot