like no matter what side you're on, using "kid" as an insult for wanting something is really dumb
#beta-ptr-spoilers
ruby star
Yess! Nice one Wowhead ❤ 
tropic trail
honestly, as much as I want them, and I really really want them, I don't think they should be added, all other arguments aside, it would so greatly hurt the horde population that it's just not worth it.
ruby star
No it wouldn't hurt horde pop massively
People have guilds and friends on horde + OP raciels etc 😛
I'm surprised Wowhead made an article on it though but it was nice
wheat wolf
Unless they act like an adult... I will call them "kid".... That includes all those "let's try to beat every dungeon in record time even if the healer is only a little slower than everyone and hasn't been to this dungeon yet" and then "oh let's kick the healer because we wiped because we didn't wait for them." People.... Yeah those I will call "kid" and that IS me being nice.
frigid umbra
plus... lets say they make high elfs for alliance... what would be the dif between them and blood elfs phisicaly as race customization?? dif shade of eyes? really? go on your blood elfs female next to vareesa and tell me what is the dif, if any? it does not make any sense game wise. high elfs are just a portion of blood elfs that could be called a group of rebels.
wheat wolf
Blood elves are High elves.... They were part of the Alliance...
wheat wolf
And then when they needed the help most. Alliance wasn't there. Didn't help them. So they went Horde.
frigid umbra
yup
wheat wolf
I love my Horde. I just wish it were as easy to level as the Alliance is.
ruby star
The Alliance is great
wheat wolf
Only because it's so quick and easy to level.
Horde... I love the Horde better.
I use the Alliance side to get rep and other achieves to make things easier for my Horde toons.
ruby star
I love Alliance cause faction Pride and lore 😃 and that
wheat wolf
Pft.... Faction Pride and Lore is rich on the Horde side too.
I like playing both sides to get both sides of the story....
If I could....
I would remain in Pandaland and be Neutral.
frigid umbra
i dont see a big dif between them lvling wise
dapper sedge
Yea no biggie u can gain 10 minutes the most
wheat wolf
I can level an Alliance toon up to 90 in 2 months.
It takes me around twice that on a Horde toon. And that is me grinding everything.
strange falcon
wat
true matrix
that sounds like you're doing something wrong
strange falcon
how do you take a char up to 90 in 2 months?
like literally
how
the only possible explanation is if you play 1 hour a day
frigid umbra
yeah... 90 in 2 months is really long... it would take 1 month to lvl to 60 back in the day of vanilla times.. cant take 2 months to 90 now for sure. depends really as dafire said how much u play daily really...
could be dif now with the lvling revamp... who knows
those who lvled an allied race to 110 should know best i guess
strange falcon
i lvled a nightborne to 110
took around 2 weeks
it took specifically "2and a half days of playtime" on the character itself
terse patrol
Perhaps “Horde kiddies” can stop bitching about being the “bad guys”. 
Or can I only call Alliance players “kiddies”?
strange falcon
you can only call alliance players kiddies,also i have not seen many horde saying we're the bad guys,i've actually seen some alliance say "if only ally were the bad guys for once"
lavish pawn
I like playing as a bad guy ~Horde players
sharp bluff
except Blizz doesn't write good evil stories for pc
lavish pawn
Yeah
rich apex
The thing is if Blizz has suddenly decided the Horde is evil
They forgot to add that to literally the entire Zandalar storyline
Because there the Horde PC is the same hero they've been for the last 13 years
hollow dock
I think its less 'the horde is evil' and more 'Sylvanas is making the horde do evil things'.
cuz she's evil.
rich apex
Oh for sure
But everyone's still crying 'omg the horde is evil!'
Because of like two or three events out of an entire launch storyline
ruby star
I mean its also perspective right? I as an alliance player will alway view horde as evil
rich apex
And there is that, yes
Alliance Jade Forest literally starts with the Horde using panda children as hostages
clever ember
Horde jade forest does the same thing. As a horde character you have to go free the panda adults and children that are basically being used as slaves by the alliance.
mortal pewter
i think the Horde is more misunderstood, and i'm an alliance player
dense plover
horde is a disorganized non-centralized structure
as a result, there are tons of subgroups
so saying 'THE HORDE DID X THING"
is difficult to say accurately
steel venture
Basically: Blizzard isn't good at representing diversity.
dense plover
^^^
clever ember
I am horde at heart. But I play alliance too. I like playing through the stories of Both factions.
steel venture
the most "evil" set of horde members right now are the Forsaken.
dense plover
blizzard is struggling to write several small stories together with one overarching arc
hopefully golden can actually pull it off
steel venture
And they have been since Cataclysm where they stopped being more of the victim and more of the aggressors.
dense plover
im pretty sure they have left a lot of the central story out right now
so we cant say conclusively
but once it goes live
if the story stays in its current state
thats bad
clever ember
People are being quick to pass judgement right now. We don’t know how the story is actually going to play out. Or why the hero’s are doing what they are doing.
steel venture
"yes it is I, wrathion. i have fooled these native people into making me their spiritwalker, WoD was a mistake. i am sorry. please don't kill me. and let help me get these time-lost eggs to turn any female whelpling into my future consort?"
blizzard stared at that
"Wow, this is ... stupid."
makes ebyssian instead.
dense plover
it was dumb
so glad they dropped the wrathion story
but im disappointed in the change they made to the intro
steel venture
the wrathion story had so many bad implications alllll around tbh lmao
also... yeah i kinda wish the old intro stayed more.
dense plover
you used to fly in at the checkpoint near the harpy shrine
then go to the little village
steel venture
and dargul fucked shit up as you were heading up to give you an immediate "OH SHIT"
dense plover
and you would arrive as dargrul steals the hammer
claims the mountain
and destroys the village
it was an exciting intro
but then they made that comic
and changed the story
steel venture
which sucks because they could've reworked ebyssian without needing that shoved into the comic
dense plover
yep
mortal pewter
nile, is your avatar Princess Zelda? sure looks like her
dense plover
i think they had plans for more story
steel venture
lmao no its my naga siren
dense plover
but when they decided to have argus happen
mortal pewter
ok since when do naga have blond hair? lol
dense plover
i think thats when they decided to cut more highmountain story
because i imagine there was going to be bloodtotem fel story
and that never happened
mortal pewter
you would think the Bloodtotem would have stayed loyal with the rest of the tribes
dense plover
well, they were always more combat focused
guldan made a deal
they accepted
then nothing happens after
you go and kill the guy
but thats the end of it
even though theres that whole fel bloodtotem area at 110
not to mention the lack of followup on the drogbar story
i still want to know where they came from
what made them?
were they titanic creations?
mutated troggs?
so little lore on them
sethrakk and vulpera both have more cumulative story in voldun than drogbar
steel venture
god seriously
my own crackpot theory is that they're the ancient, ancient ancestors to trolls given the similar appearance.
but theres really
nothing for them
at all
dense plover
hopefully when they eventually release the next chronicles
to complete the story in legion
and explain the origins of drogbar
strange falcon
"these are drogbar rocks!,drogbar stones!" best quote
sharp bluff
They will save it for later, fel totem rejoin Highmountain and we get Tauren warlocks and DH lol
steel venture
xal'atath also never says "failed titanic creations" to drogbar specifically, she's talking about kobold
steel venture
yeah bloodtotem apparently had druids, but we only saw the fel-corrupted ones during legion
dense plover
in the allied race version of thundertotem you can see bloodtotems who didnt drink the fel being healed
sharp bluff
Darn there goes the warlocks
terse patrol
@dense plover ye, the Bloodtotem were the ones that I preferred over the others
kinda wish Tauren could get Grimtotem tattoos for the black furred tauren
By tattoos, I mean body paint
sharp bluff
might down the road, Grimtotem was in the Shaman campaign from what I heard
didn't start that one yet myself though so idk
terse patrol
I still think they’re prepping for the Shadow vs Light stuff, with Magatha, to give Shadow aligned Tauren a leader.
sharp bluff
wasn't she quote unquote "good" in legion?
sharp bluff
ah
steel venture
""good"" more like ""literally why the fuck are we not killing you.""
her return made no sense.
and how she wasnt killed by literally every bloodhoof shaman in the earthen ring also makes no sense
hollow dock
Essentially she came with an olive branch
stating that she would promise her strengths in a temporary truce against the legion
sudden pollen
"I have the doomstone, only I know how to use it. Fuck off, I'm staying." - Essentially Magatha
terse patrol
thats why I think she’ll be the Tauren shadow leader. IF they put aside Horde vs Alliance pvp, and reorient things to Shadow vs Light (I doubt it, but maybe), they need “light” and “shadow” leaders for each race.
hollow dock
why would each race need a light and dark leader?
Why not just make some dark and some light?
sudden pollen
I don't think we need Shadow and Light leader for each race. For some of the races, the dynamic makes no sense.
Considering MAgatha was responsible for Cairne's death, I highly doubt Baine would ever let her side with the Bloodhoof Tauren.
He nearly lost his city to her once before, I doubt he'll want to risk that again.
near cosmos
WoW 2: Shadow vs Light
Choose to play as either a void lord or a naaru
hollow dock
Void Lords and Naaru are not on the same power level D=
sudden pollen
you have to have the "good guys" be the underdog though.
terse patrol
Nah, I think it’d moreso be Azeroth vs an empowered Argus.
sharp bluff
actually it is Naaru vs Naaru, the cycle repeats
near cosmos
Pirate Thinky Bro to the rescue
terse patrol
Azeroth being Light.
hollow dock
Argus is dead tho
terse patrol
(We think he’s dead)
sudden pollen
We thought the Pantheon was dead until Antorus, too.
near cosmos
It was only a setback, etc
hollow dock
We're fairly certain he's dead since he didn't get Aman'thuls immortality thing.
No we didn't Do
In chronicles it states they were saved
terse patrol
I really doubt the Titan of Death, who looks like the grim reaper, and has a dang skull face and a scythe, is that easy to kill.
hollow dock
That's not canon and you know that it's not canon Honk. he's a titan, that's it.
terse patrol
Especially since we’re likely going to the Shadowlands soon
hollow dock
We even had a war campaign against a master of the shadowlands if you don't recall
terse patrol
Tell me what Thros, is, if not a part of the Shadowlands we have not gone to?
Who’s to say that we haven’t just scratched the surface of the realm of the dead?
sudden pollen
I just want my black empire expansion.
hollow dock
Because the realm of the dead is 1 realm. There aren't any layers to it. It's a reality where the dead reside. We visit it regularly. There are inbetweens like the Dark Forest that Uuna is found in
but otherwise, there's nothing that is really relevant for the Shadowlands that we haven't already explored
sudden pollen
the most i could see the shadowlands used for is a raid.
terse patrol
aight fine. We’ll agree to disagree until we finally get some answers on the Drust, and some clarification on all these connections to the Shadowlands in BFA.
hollow dock
at best. Maybe even an Argus situation.
where the shadowlands becomes a small hub.
Nothing that we can focus on for an expansion sadly.
Unless blizzard just pulls something out of their dusty shelf
terse patrol
My guess is, a bunch of people are going to die, and have to fight their way through the Shadowlands to escape/take out N’zoth or something.
I doubt we’ve seen the last of Arthas in that respect.
hollow dock
How would he have gotten into the shadowlands? He may be the smallest of the old gods, but that mass of flesh isn't moving off of Azeroth anytime soon
terse patrol
And we know Kel’thuzad’s soul is lost in the Shadowlands.
hollow dock
with his soul shattered everywhere, I do think the last of Arthas is used up
sudden pollen
In the sylvanas short story it's implied Arthas' spirit is roaming that realm that she went to when she killed herself.
Cause she saw Arthas there, if I'm remembering it correctly.
terse patrol
Eh. With the new Lich King likely going to rear his head, I think he’s almost certain to return as at least a ghost in the Shadowlands.
hollow dock
Not only is he there
but a part of him is within the helm of domination, apart of him is within the shards of frostmourne
He's splintered
terse patrol
I get a gut feeling that we’re going to have to put Arthas back in charge as the Lich King.
sudden pollen
I'm hoping not because it's bad writing to keep reusing villains.
terse patrol
^
hollow dock
How would he get put back in charge when his soul is shattered everywhere and as he's not part demon, we don't really know how to fix that
terse patrol
But this is Blizzard.
@hollow dock You act like Blizzard isn’t 100% willing to bring people back with any reasoning.
points at Illidan
hollow dock
They had a reason for bringing him back.
terse patrol
Rule of cool.
hollow dock
Fans and metzen wanted to give him the redemption story
terse patrol
And you wanna know what people think is cool? Arthas.
hollow dock
Fans been asking for him to come back, and they've been hinting at it for a while that he would be coming back in game.
terse patrol
i’m already calling them saying that Arthas was fighting the influence of Ner’zhul and the Old Gods/Void, and is the reason the world wasn’t consumed by the Scourge.
Warlords even blatantly says it.
Ner’zhul serves the Void.
hollow dock
That ner'zhul does
specifically because they broke the pact
our ner'zhul that made the Lich King never did it
terse patrol
Who’s to say he isn’t now?
hollow dock
Because he's not on Draenor to break the stone
terse patrol
Why is he using a bunch of Saronite to build his fortress?
terse patrol
Who’s to say Yogg Saron didn’t whisper to him while he sat up there? Offering vengeance against the Legion?
hollow dock
Because he was plotting it
while serving the legion
since day 1
before he got put in the crown
terse patrol
You really doubt the sort of lengths Blizzard is willing to go to tie things together.
hollow dock
Because blizzard has never gone that far as to -rewrite an entire book- just to excuse a storyline.
tulip sun
Uh
tulip sun
Killing magatha would mean no grimtotem support against the legion
mint arch
we can kill her now though
uncut vault
They just need to have magatha ally with the Alliance
Grimtotems never broke their alliance from stonetalon
hollow dock
but port that blurs faction lines!!1111
strange falcon
!1!1!1!
steel venture
Honestly still most valid point I've seen on the high-elf "debate."
Any customization option you give to a high elf has no explaination as to why blood elves couldn't have it too. The only thing blood elves couldn't have would be those untainted blue eyes.
steel venture
High elf tattoos? Rommath has armband tattoos, and has since BC.
High elf skintones, unless you make belf skintones more unnatural like felbloods that's not gonna work either.
But---but magical runes? Almost every damn concept art of blood elves has runes around their eyes.
It is probably why we're getting Dark Iron instead of Wildhammer, as Wildhammer look functionally the same as Bronzebeards outside of blue tattoos.
hollow dock
technically all three clans are sub-races of dwarves
but we dont actually have a base dwarf to go off of
steel venture
Technically yes, but Bronzebeards and Wildhammers always have looked very similar as well to begin with.
And base "dwarf" would be Earthen I guess?
hollow dock
Like if we look at it in a timeline standard, there's Earthen, whatever the earthen turn into before the three main clans of dwarves arise, and then the three main clans
steel venture
Fair point.
ruby star
fingers crossed we get a build tonight
steel venture
Either today or tomorrow, prob.
strange falcon
spoiler alert,highelves are not going to be in it
ruby star
I never said they would be
hollow dock
Yea we know that.
terse patrol
hollow dock
What are we not allowed to still talk about them?
ruby star
We're allowed to still talk about them
hollow dock
The game acknowledges they exist.
ruby star
Wowhead even made a pro High ELf article
hollow dock
even if Ion doesn't
ruby star
If you see this Perculia, loved the article ❤
terse patrol
Ion isnt great at PR lol
hollow dock
ofc they see this stuff. They sit and laugh at us.
hollow dock
I already had my crying done at Pax when Ion answered it with Jesse.
terse patrol
I still have hope for ogres
ruby star
I still have high hopes for High Elves 😛
hollow dock
I have slight hopes for them as a fully reworked race.
ruby star
Wowheads article gave me a boost 😄
hollow dock
Not an allied race though.
terse patrol
I mean, ogres are the same height lorewise as tauren
hollow dock
Height isn't the issue
ruby star
Spoiler Ogres are just another flavour of Blood Elf!
uncut vault
I mean, that doesn't really matter when allied races already have more customization than their counterparts
ruby star
xD
strange falcon
i think mok'nathal(rexxar like ppl) are more likely than ogres,as it could be a way to give the horde the kultiran skeleton
hollow dock
oright. Dont have that emote anymore
ruby star
We don't have the Ion emote here lol
uncut vault
Lightforged have customizable tattoos and head runes, which Draenei should also have
hollow dock
Aren't those apart of the lightforging process tho?
How would normal draenei have it when they didn't go through the lightforging process?
uncut vault
High mountain and nightborne have customizable tattoos and jewelry, which Tauren and night elves should have
All Draenei have a head marking
terse patrol
They’re not going to make an allied race/full race for a half breed
hollow dock
that weird plate thing on their head?
uncut vault
The floaty rune
terse patrol
So no moknathal
hollow dock
As I understand it, normal Draenei are tied with the Naaru and can call upon their service and that of the light temporarily but Lightforged have that connection at all times
and since it's a spell and not apart of the model, that'd get limited pretty hard on the customizaiton
uncut vault
The only argument against it is that the Naaru that blessed the normal Draenei are dead, but same for lightforged since xera is dead
hollow dock
that wouldn't work because Oros has been around since BC when they were introduced.
uncut vault
But the point is, unique racial traits that apply to their counterpart aren't something that hold back allied races
hollow dock
Which apparently it does for High elves and blood elves.
Gotta remember Port, every other allied race can never be used as an example because people just hate elves
uncut vault
If you want to play a tall blue skinned elf with tattoos, the alliance is there waiting for y- wait...
ruby star
Lol yeah that contradicted Ion statement xD
near cosmos
I bet perculia cackled manically while writing that article, knowing what it would do to this channel 😛
near cosmos
gr8 b8 perculia m8 i r8 8/8
hollow dock
I dont understand the context. Is she against High Elves or something or was she seeking to just stir people who are against it?
terse patrol
Perculia, pictured here.
hollow dock
I'm not getting any context am I
hollow dock
I know where that's from Zep
sharp bluff
that dang face...
terse patrol
Except with Honkerton Brand Smiles
hollow dock
I don't understand how it pretains to Perculia
terse patrol
She’s using her writing magic to burn down the beta discord.
hollow dock
How? Is this discord against high elves or something?
near cosmos
no, but it's just been discussed to death
and then she wrote an article about it and I found it funny considering the first thing I saw in this channel is more nerd rage for and against it, the whole topic reset from zero
😛
uncut vault
I think it's more people thought the discussion would die down now
hollow dock
Why? Blizz said no to Classic.
uncut vault
Then wowhead comes out with an article that has a "why high elves work" section
hollow dock
Look at where it's at now
sharp bluff
development hell?
bronze condor
hot take i think murlocs should be an allied race
hollow dock
it's being developed when Blizzard had said multiple times on the topic: "No, you don't know what you want."
tropic trail
Blizz has been shown to cave into the community before, such as flying, and classic
sharp bluff
also while I am against Helfs, for my own reasons , they do have one thing going for them,
They only said no to Helfs as an ALLIED race, not as a full race
so maybe they will happen down the line
terse patrol
They’ll play it, MAYBE do a couple raids, then never play it again.
hollow dock
^
that's what'll happen for the majority.
Maybe like a couple thousand stay consistent
terse patrol
Because they realize that it’s the same fucking old game, and that all they saw was nostalgia.
tropic trail
well, yeah I'm pretty sure classic will die after a few months, they still caved into the community and are now developing it
hollow dock
Yea. Which is why I have no idea why people think that just because Ion said no that the conversation or movement dies.
bronze condor
oh wait they are?
tropic trail
I want high elves, I'm just worried what it would do to the horde pop
hollow dock
yea
bronze condor
weird
hollow dock
they hired most of the nost team to do so.
bronze condor
oh well that's cool of them
it's nice to know they're going to get to professionally work on something they're passionate about
tropic trail
We really haven't gotten any info on classic yet tho, probably not until blizzcon
bronze condor
although i myself am not particularly interested in playing classic, tbh.
hollow dock
A very small but vocal minority is interestedin playing Classic
tropic trail
I think it could be fun to mess around on for a month or 2, but I don't see me playing it for very long
hollow dock
I highly doubt it
terse patrol
I still want them 
ruby star
I don't think they'd make the whole BE pop leave
hollow dock
Maybe like 5-6% of the current blood elf population
ruby star
cause people have friends and guilds and Op raciels 😛
hollow dock
^
strange falcon
cough they nerfed arcane torrent cough
terse patrol
tru
bronze condor
i don't think it'd affect the pop very much at all. alts exist for a reason lmao
hollow dock
Yea.
Maybe like a very small portion of the blood elves left are playing cuz sexy elves
but most are playing because of horde and friends and guilds. and op racial
which thankfully is getting removed
hollow dock
Is it an AOE silence?
strange falcon
if you say removed,it means that the ability in itself is no longer in the game
no matter what it did
hollow dock
Arcane torrent- AOE silence
is no longer in BFA
Just like Volley was removed. Replaced with a much weaker version of volley.
terse patrol
Well, if you want to play an ancient, tall, blue elf the Horde is waiting for you.
uncut vault
Rip legion volley, gonna miss my permanent arrow rain
hollow dock
Im not. Shits so annoying in M+ when people break CC
terse patrol
tbh maghar for alliance 
hollow dock
TBH. Saurfang for the alliance temporarily until Sylvanas is removed
tulip sun
Nah
tropic trail
what if saurfang realizes that living in stormwind, and not mud huts in orgrimmar is better and stays alliance?
terse patrol
i mean horde got the highly desired alliance race of the blood elves in BC. We should get their highly desired race
hollow dock
oh shit
tulip sun
Blood elves were not desired by the alliance
hollow dock
gotta go
tulip sun
High Elves were
tulip sun
Saurfang I am predicting rejoins the Horde
rich apex
top kek
terse patrol
you clearly werent around for vanilla
rich apex
Of course Saurfang's going to rejoin the Horde
People can't exist outside of their race-faction allegiances, unless they become a neutral character
sharp bluff
or are goblins
tulip sun
I meant in BfA
tulip sun
I feel like he will rejoin Sylvanas' horde(despite feeling that she will step down)
Maybe she won't
rich apex
Something will happen before Sylvanas can try to plague Stormwind, I'm sure
Like, say
N'zoth bursting out of the ground
tulip sun
I may be in the minority
tropic trail
isn't valeera alliance tho?
tulip sun
But I think I would like a fully faction-based expansion
rich apex
When was the last time Valeera was relevant? 😛
tropic trail
fair enough
tulip sun
100% war
rich apex
The only time she shows up in WoW is part of a neutral class order
terse patrol
Tbh, my assumption? Saurfang is going to lead the forces who take on Azshara and N’zoth. The Might of Azeroth.
uncut vault
The Saurfang edits get worse every time I see them
rich apex
Lok'tar for the Alliance baby
sharp bluff
I think the best thing they could have happen to him, is that he gets his warriors death BUT
rich apex
But yeah
tropic trail
I think he's going to end up dying to save sylvanas
sharp bluff
as soon as he dies he sees countless other orcs getting killed in non honorable ways
rich apex
And then Saurfang can come back
sharp bluff
and regrets it
sage tapir
if he dies to save sylvanas im going to be disappointed
uncut vault
But really, I doubt sylv will be deposed at this point. They'll do a wrynn style story with them
tulip sun
I fully expect Sylvanas will go through some sort of change
rich apex
Sylvie isn't going Full Garrosh for sure
Exactly
Some kind of change will happen
But it won't be a raid
terse patrol
Saurfang lead the armies to kill C’thun. So.
rich apex
And they wouldn't kill Sylvanas Windrunner in a Horde only story scenario
uncut vault
Come to a healthy medium between their extremes like anduin and varian did
rich apex
Exactly
terse patrol
He’s the obvious option for the leader of the joint forces to take N’zoth.
tulip sun
I feel like she and the forsaken will become closer to the Horde.
rich apex
Ugh, hopefully
uncut vault
I can see Saurfang becoming the leader of the united forces after the faction conflict inevitably ends in 8.2
rich apex
They've only been members for the last 13 years or so
terse patrol
So, that’s my assumption. He leaves Sylvanas’ Horde to build the A-Team.
uncut vault
Nzoth will absolutely be the argus of BfA
terse patrol
Azeroth Team.
terse patrol
I’m calling the name Might of Azeroth.
tulip sun
or stepping down at the very least.
terse patrol
Blizzard loves referencing Vanilla lately.
uncut vault
Even though I don't see her dying or being deposed, I also don't see her continuing as warcheif. I can see a more council style leadership so warchief roulette can end
rich apex
N'zoth is 100% the finale, yes
tulip sun
I would like a council-like leadership
But that feels like what the alliance should be, or be shown more off.
rich apex
I'm happy with any Sylvie ending that doesn't involve a Full Garrosh
uncut vault
They're gonna have 8.1 or 8.2 be a landfall style patch, full out faction war, with the end being nzoth revealing himself
terse patrol
The only way Sylvanas can be redeemed is if she realizes that all of her actions were due to Yogg’s influence when she impaled herself on Saronite.
rich apex
Yeeep
And that is also a distinct possibility
Like I 100% expect that Alliance purists will still be crying about a lack of justice
terse patrol
She’s going to realize she became the monster that killed her in the first place.
rich apex
Given that it first formed from the shattered prison of C'thun 🤔
uncut vault
Have we ever actually gotten sylvanas' in head perspective on the plague/blight?
tulip sun
I mean, it is literally called World of Warcraft
uncut vault
Would be interesting to see her have distaste for it, but use it out of need
uncut vault
Yeah I'm hoping we get it in BtS
terse patrol
We can’t go to war with other factions except the Horde/Alliance?
We have the Void, and the Legion’s remnants.
uncut vault
This xpac is only stated to resolve the old tensions
rich apex
We're getting Sylvie's POV i the novel
tulip sun
Maybe go the Star Trek Online route
rich apex
Which will hopefully provide a good bit of context
uncut vault
Not end the war fully or stop all wars (though I do think the factions will unite finally)
tulip sun
But there are some DEEP hatreds in both factions
terse patrol
^
tulip sun
Like...I can't see Genn going for this idea.
terse patrol
Genn isn’t a villain, sorry.
uncut vault
I mean, there's always the possibility they kill genn and Nathanos in the 8.2 raid
terse patrol
I know the Horde is desperate to make him one.
tulip sun
No leader is a villain, and no one said he was Honker.
uncut vault
They'd make for great identical faction bosses
rich apex
genn is justified for everything he does
omg why are the horde pillaging kul'tiras what did they ever do
uncut vault
Very similar abilities
tulip sun
But I highly doubt Genn would want peace
sharp bluff
From what I have seen from the beta, it is the orcs and trolls attacking Kul'Tiras for revenge
rich apex
It would be nice if they actually forced Genn and Jaina to confront how far they'd go to end the Horde
tulip sun
^^
sharp bluff
so that makes sense
uncut vault
Genn and Nathanos dying to us murder hobos would be a good "oh shit what are we doing" moment for Sylvanas and anduin
rich apex
But it's within reason
rich apex
There's a giant statue of Daelin in Boralus
tulip sun
Genn too
sharp bluff
which part Khamnin? orcs and trolls attacking?
tulip sun
They are arguably the most....war hungry characters.
rich apex
Well
tulip sun
Ya Zep
uncut vault
I just really want a faction specific raid
rich apex
No one in the Horde is going to shed a tear over Nathanos 😛
uncut vault
Same encounters, different ability effects and rooms
terse patrol
I think BFA will be the Infinity War of WoW.
rich apex
I just saw Infinity War an hour ago
terse patrol
lmao
rich apex
I hope they put a -little- more thought into BFA >_>
tulip sun
I would love something like infinity wars
rich apex
But ayyyy spoilers
tulip sun
Where we team up against say the void lords
rich apex
I mean
uncut vault
So two parter xpac? Let's go
tulip sun
and a shitton of lore characters die in the fights
rich apex
That's what we do every expansion
uncut vault
Inb4 the Titan inside Azeroth is thanos
rich apex
I mean
uncut vault
Takes the five pillars of creation and recreates Azeroth
rich apex
I wouldn't blame Azeroth for trying to wipe us out
(either that or Azeroth's 'birth' eradicates the surface as they transform from a planet to a full bodied Titan)
Buuuut given Chronicles is pretty clear about the Titans' value of life
Probably less likely 😛
tulip sun
It feels like the Horde allied races are a lot more....
uhh whats the word
integrated
with the Horde
rich apex
Well it's sure nice to see non-orcs still being counted as proud members of the Horde
Play a nightborne in a Horde tabard, make an orc purist cry
tulip sun
-looks at Centurion Kaga Warmstone-
terse patrol
Nightborne like Orcs for other reasons.
uncut vault
Well horde ones had the benefit of an entire xpac of us saving them
terse patrol
tulip sun
I love seeing characters like this already
uncut vault
Lightforged got one patch and void elves got half a minute
rich apex
I can also appreciate elves who aren't snobby at 'savage' races
tulip sun
That doesn't really matter Porter
rich apex
Thalryssa asks whether the Horde needs Zandalar more than Zandalar needs the Horde
It's great
sharp bluff
so true, I saw Velfs and lightforged for the allied races on allaince, and all i could think was... what? who are those guys again?
rich apex
Of course, then you have the belves taking a picture in front of the big ugly pyramid, but at least that's more of a meme than character moment
terse patrol
Tbh they should have made Lightforged beefier and more rugged.
Imagine Draenei with scars like the Kul Tirans
rich apex
Blessing of the Light, baby
tulip sun
That should be available for all races
rich apex
That's the point of Allied Races
uncut vault
Tfw high elves aren't snobby at the more savage races
terse patrol
yes, but it’s clear they have very little work put into them
rich apex
I mean
uncut vault
Living in tandem with wildhammer nowadays
rich apex
High elves aren't in a position to be snobby at anyone
(except their own blood elf people)
tulip sun
The highmountain are recolored tauren pretty much -shrug-
But they are unique enough to be playable
terse patrol
Well, whats her face taunts the High Elves by saying they sully their bloodlines with lesser blood.
rich apex
That's why we're getting 8-10 Allied Races
Instead of 1 neutral race or 2 base faction races
terse patrol
So ye
tulip sun
That is the point of allied races, they are unique enough from the other races, but don't require much edits
terse patrol
S E T H R A K
rich apex
(assuming sethrak are coming)
uncut vault
I mean minus antlers highmountain are Tauren, it's the tats and extra fluff stuff that makes them different
rich apex
I aggressively like the Lightforged
tropic trail
I just think it's odd to have both a shadow themed and light themed race on the same faction
especially when the lightforged previous leader was adamantly against shadow
tulip sun
Well
tropic trail
they seem to be pretty ok with Xe'ra dying
tulip sun
His wife leads the other faction xD
tropic trail
but she's not actually the leader of the velves, that's umbris or whatever his name is. but he'll probably be pushed to the sidelines
also, just nitpicking now, but why tf is his name umbris? did his parents know he would become a void elf when they named him?
rich apex
They seem okay because god forbid Illidan face any consequences
The void elves don't exactly have a lot of commentary about fighting against their own people
That's how it goes 😛
tropic trail
I mean, we did kill illidan for what he did, I'd assume that would be punishment enough for his previous actions
balmy heart
I like to think that the reason they seem okay with Xe'ra's death is because we managed to kick major Legion butt.
rich apex
And they are smartly focused on the Legion despite their personal losses
Unlike some wolf people
tranquil steeple
Well to balance it out, Sylvanas wasn't really doing something that would help the fight against the Legion, herself.
tropic trail
yeah, stormheim was weird, even if they were ultimately right to attack the forsaken.
at the time they had no reason to attack tho
rich apex
True
tulip sun
Sylvanas was not exactly putting anything in danger either
rich apex
But Sylvie didn't hijack the Horde PC's support force to do so
tropic trail
Legions story was good, but there were definitely issues as well
tulip sun
and his name is Umbric
rich apex
Anduin: champion, i need you to go with genn and rogers to find the Aegis
Genn: lol forget that, let's hunt sylvanas down
tulip sun
He is planned to be part of the war campaign
ruby star
Umbric 🤢
tropic trail
umbric, ok, I couldn't remember it off the top of my head
rich apex
He's a mission table follower
terse patrol
tulip sun
All mission table followers have done something so far
balmy heart
"That's my fetish" face
strange falcon
faceapp is too OP @terse patrol
tropic trail
her ears pointed down just makes it look awkward
uncut vault
Also what kind of mean ass parents did he have for them to name him after the shadow of the moon as high elf
tulip sun
or have a piece of dialogue
distant folio
do the kul tirans get their fleet back? i heard it was kept "away" by the stormsong but i believe in the dungeon the stormsong become our friends again
meager warren
tropic trail
that's not varian, that's marry poppins
sharp bluff
Honk, you are the treasure of this chat
meager warren
Honk is the treasure of every chat
rich apex
Honk no
It's pretty clearly being held by Azshara
Also the Tidesages have been worshipping N'zoth from the start
'let me, a 100% good Tidesage, commit these souls to the sea, at this perfectly innocent shrine'
sharp bluff
Honk no? Honk YES
uncut vault
Tidesages have not been worshipping N’Zoth
dense plover
Not nzoth
uncut vault
That’s a shrine to the Tidemother.
uncut vault
Who, as far as we can see, is not only an opposite of N’Zoth, but opposes Azshara
uncut vault
She’s still out there, N’Zoth/Azshara replaced her voice in their heads
rich apex
rich apex
I mean, yeah, I guess there could be an Octopus Goddess
uncut vault
She’s got the same eyes and head shape of a kraken
rich apex
Who looks awkwardly like N'zoth
uncut vault
Wouldn’t be the first kraken wild god
meager warren
there's also ozumat
dense plover
So you can argue all you want
meager warren
tho that's probably a stretch
dense plover
But those are facts
uncut vault
I mean my theory is that she and ozumat are the first kraken
rich apex
Noted by who
uncut vault
Because there are servants of neptulon on Kul Tiras
rich apex
🤔
dense plover
^
rich apex
That was nice of the devs to not give a blatant answer to a plot twist story point
uncut vault
Also it is different because a lot of the tidesages still hear the Tidemother, and still use non-void magic
dense plover
^
Most of them don’t follow the crazy old god tentacle shit
But stormsong does
And so do his higher ups
ruby star
i thought the sea priests worshipped krakans?
meager warren
stormsong knows how to have fun 😉 😜
uncut vault
The tidesages are basically shamans, they ask the sea and sky for aid, and worship a big ass being who lives in it
rich apex
Welp, out of the Stormsong content I did so far, I haven't seen much of any kraken goddess 😛
terse patrol
My guess is
Similar to how Zandalari won’t have Paladins lorewise in 8.0
Thats why Kul Tirans wont have tidesages.
rich apex
in before the Zandalari recruitment quest is to rez Rezan
terse patrol
Until in 7.1 or something, they both get to have their paladins and shamans respectively
terse patrol
I no
rich apex
Oh good 😛
terse patrol
I wonder if Kul Tirans wont be getting paladins
rich apex
Welp
terse patrol
In exchange for shaman
rich apex
Haven't seen any Light churches so far
In Kul'tiras
Priest is still up in the air, given half of the Tidesages fall to the Void Side
terse patrol
makes sense
rich apex
And no KT totems datamined so far
terse patrol
They’d have a cathedral otherwise
rich apex
I like to think any Kul'tiran or Gilnaen paladins told their respective kings to fuck off after they left the Alliance
So no one left to teach new ones 😛
terse patrol
I doubt they’ll get Warlock
terse patrol
Maybe we’ll get a datamined boomkin with this build
ruby star
Looking forward to see what new stuff gets datamined 😄
wild pewter
Any idea when we'll get a new build?
hollow dock
Wait didn't Gilneas lock itself off before paladins were a thing?
rich apex
No
wild pewter
They locked themselves off after the 2nd war I believe
rich apex
Yes
uncut vault
I mean, Hyper, have you not seen the shrine? lol
dense plover
ehhhh
there isnt that much left to add before release
some work is needed on all the zones
the last 2 dungeons
more world quests
pvp testing and more warfront testing
but thats about it
distant folio
Regarding Light worship on Kultiras, I believe some NPCs greet you or say thanks using formulations like "Light bless you" or "Thank the Light". Also the "crown of light" on Kultira's flag is meant to represent the Light. It's also on the helm of that paladin boss guy from Siege of Boralus
wild pewter
I'm excited for all of the finishing touches, all the small world-building things are my jam
meager warren
"Thank the Light"
great way to brush off all the hard work that we did for you
dense plover
yeah, most of the npcs still have base VO
meager warren
sucks
dense plover
so unless its text, dont take it as canon
they wont stay with base vo edgy
its just not done yet
uncut vault
there is basically no light worship on kul tiras, pretty plainly stated
meager warren
but what about the text that says "Thank the light"?
rich apex
Taelia literally says that some Kul'tirans worship the sea like mainlanders worship the Light
uncut vault
tidesages replaced it a long time go
rich apex
I mean it's possible some still do
But
Enough to justify playable pallies seems slim
meager warren
they should make a hero class that's connected to the sea for Kul'tirans
sharp bluff
Chances are they will get druid but not paladin
tropic trail
who would get said class on the horde tho?
uncut vault
note that they specifically changed any mention of "sea priest" and changed it to tidesage
rich apex
Druid's already confirmed
uncut vault
Id just love for them to get druids and shamans as replacement for paladins and priests
rich apex
It's priests and paladins and shamans that are up in the air
sharp bluff
did they confirm Troll Paladins yet? I know it is happening but just wondering if confirmed yet
tropic trail
doesn't that give them every class?
meager warren
wdym you know it's happening?
The only people who know is Bliz
sharp bluff
so yep then lol, good
meager warren
Zep is a bliz dev confirmed
tropic trail
except the hero classes
sharp bluff
I wish, I'm more of a physical labor type
meager warren
what's your profile pic of, Zep?
sharp bluff
Sith Marauder, from a game I used to enjoy, that used to be good
hollow dock
(The game is actually a lot better gameplay wise now than it was prior but people like nostalgia.)
sudden oak
people love to jerk off nostalgia
sharp bluff
Swtor? did they separate the classes again?
hollow dock
The classes have always been seperate?
sharp bluff
I stopped playing when they streamlined it in fallen empire
and made you just the commander
rich apex
Shame Bioware had this massive budget for a SWTOR expansion
hollow dock
The warrior, Inquis, Bounty hunter and Agent all still exist.
uncut vault
if you want to play a horde paladin, the sunwalkers are there waiting for you 😉
meager warren
?
rich apex
And just tossed it in the furnace and made only a single class/faction neutral story
🤔
meager warren
Belfs can be paladins too
uncut vault
Spoilers guys, blood elf paladins ARE tauren paladins. There just arent that many examples of blood elf paladins out there in the world
sharp bluff
now the only question should I make my paladin a Troll or lightforged, and should i make my druid KT or troll
meager warren
Blood elf paladins ARE Tauren paladins
what are you smoking and where can i get it
uncut vault
there isnt one yet, but if Talanji is any indication, rezan can still give his power
Im smoking a resoundingly obvious mocking of Ion
hollow dock
The same ganja that Ion is smoking Murderous
meager warren
lool
rich apex
And the turtle loa gets resurrected, so
hollow dock
Lightforged are just another flavor of Draenei :ionface:
sharp bluff
Alliance has at least one of every class (non heroic) allied race, that and Ion answering vaguely
based on that troll paladins are happening lol
rich apex
Or the Prelates just start getting power from Loa'Vol'jin
Who knows
Given, as people, have noted
sharp bluff
Vol'jin as a loa of light?
hollow dock
I dont think its right to plan around soemthing that blizz can pull back on last minute
sharp bluff
what
sharp bluff
Vol'jin would be a shadow loa lol
rich apex
And then not have trolladins
meager warren
all the allied races can play the class that the original race can play.
regular trolls can't be paladins so
hollow dock
Yea but at the same time Nightborne can't be druids.
hollow dock
Lightforged only dont get shamans and DKs I thought
rich apex
But yeah, it's -likely-. Just not confirmed.
I mean in regards to Allied Races getting a -new- class that their origin race doesn't have
Like Mag'har priests and KT druids
meager warren
Void Elf and Nightborne Elf DH when
rich apex
When they bother to remake the DH scenario to not explicitly be about the night/blood elf followers of Illidan
So uh
hollow dock
never. (2)
uncut vault
in at least a decade, if DKs are any indication
whenever illidan comes out of the plot box
hollow dock
What races are getting DKs?
uncut vault
none, ion just gave another maybe at the QnA last week
hollow dock
At pax he said a very hard no to forbes.
meager warren
but paladins are hero classes.
and DID and HM Tauren are getting that
uncut vault
for the current ones yeah
hollow dock
Paladins aren't hero classes
rich apex
Paladins aren't hero classes by WoW's definition
hollow dock
A hero class is a class that starts you at a higher level than 1
uncut vault
he said after BfA they might add it, but its a maybe
lore kinda joked about a revamp for DKs not from wrath era
hollow dock
WoW's version of prestige classes for the D&D players out there
rich apex
Admittedly, that higher level start and intro scenario is really the only thing that makes them a hero class
meager warren
so, DK and DH?
hollow dock
Yup
meager warren
that's all?
sharp bluff
Only hero classes are the one that don’t start at a races base level
rich apex
Until we get Tinkers
hollow dock
As in WotLK stated: Deathknights are the first HERO class.
rich apex
rich apex
Bah
hollow dock
They won't make tinkerer or anything engineering related as long as the profession exists
rich apex
Engineers haven't had combat-relevant gadgets in years
rich apex
Could you use Reeves in PVP or dungeons?
sharp bluff
Yep lol
meager warren
DKs and DHs are technically a new race.
So are Paladins.
uncut vault
I mean if first aid is any indication
theyre willing to do major profession overhauls
hollow dock
First aid's been obsolete since Wrath :L
uncut vault
I mean engineerings been obsolete since forever
rich apex
But nothing you actually use in combat
hollow dock
You can't use guns in combat what
hollow dock
WoD was the last time Engineering could make a weapon
rich apex
Equippable weapons are different 😛
hollow dock
Legion skipped all that because of artifact weapons
uncut vault
I more meant engineering in combat
rich apex
You don't need engineering to equip a crafted gun
uncut vault
I love me my engineering gadgets
hollow dock
In which you still use Goggles in engineering
uncut vault
but for what actually matters for getting i nthe way of tinkers, the combat part
hollow dock
You need engineering to make the gun Hyper
uncut vault
engineering has always been pretty bad
hollow dock
Lulwhat
Engineering and blacksmithing were the two required professions before WoD stripped the extra sockets
uncut vault
I thnik the last time I used a bomb was as a joke in wrath
Im not talking about the utility part
rich apex
Well yeah you need engineering to make it
uncut vault
im talking about the combat part
rich apex
I mean to equip it
uncut vault
the bombs, the buildables, the activatables
hollow dock
Yea so am I. The belt enchant for engineering was nuts back in Mop.
uncut vault
I dont think nitro boots are gonna mean we're never getting tinkers lol
hollow dock
Like. I -have- to use Engineering on my DK
Cuz DKs have 0 mobility and engineering fills that.
uncut vault
again, Im talking about the combat stuff. Nitro and glider are still utility items, just utility that can be used in combat
rich apex
A tinker class and an engineering profession are two wholly different things
No more related than a warrior and blacksmithing
hollow dock
Id say that nitro is a heavy combat item as it allows you to upkeep DPS for longer
sharp bluff
Gun boots on a DK = sweet sweet speed
rich apex
And tinkers aren't about making things
hollow dock
A tinker makes gadgets just like an engineer would
hollow dock
Which is what Reeves is
meager warren
if DKs have 0 mobility, you wouldn't be able to move
rich apex
Reeves is a gimmick
hollow dock
It is. A gimmick of engineering
rich apex
And an outdated one now
meager warren
Reeves is amazing, you heretic
rich apex
Blizz has scrapped all sorts of engineering gimmicks in the past
hollow dock
Tinkerers are just another flavor of Engineering :ion:
rich apex
(it's better than bards or necromancer hero class either way)
meager warren
Tinkerers would be another flavor of engineering tho
rich apex
screams internally
meager warren
would the bards just sing the enemies to death?
"These people are so bad at singing, we die of boredom"
or
they die of bleeding ears
seems legit
hollow dock
A bard can debuff an enemy and make them vulnerable, they could also hire them into his service to fight others for a short time, he could also do what other classes that haven't been capable of soloing do: Be social and find some people.
Designing a Bard has a very large amount of freedom in WoW as it wouldn't step on anyones toes.
meager warren
so in other words, they'd be useless?
hollow dock
About as useless as priest yea
meager warren
:thonk:
uncut vault
with the loss of WoD disc we dont really have quite as much of a support healer
could fit that niche nicely
rich apex
Wowhead will post updates when they have updated
jade basalt
rich apex
I want one
ruby star
travel form
rich apex
Vulpera druid travel form
sharp bluff
Mmmm alpaca
meager warren
alplaca?
Something ain't right...
sharp bluff
Oh my
strange falcon
drorith,i think the rastakhan one is for a buff
like in one of the scenarios maybe
rich apex
ooooooh snap
sharp bluff
Just need boomkin and I am making a pirate druid
sharp bluff
Same, the zandalari boomkin is amazing, it will be a close call
Watch it be a bone harpy
sharp bluff
Has to flap though
rich apex
Bah
uncut vault
damn Im so excited for all the cloth now
rich apex
Presumably, yes
uncut vault
the warfront armor wasnt just a fluke, theyre really designing robe and no robe options
rich apex
Just not thrilled with the notion of a feathery wicker man 😛
meager warren
that kul'tiran druid travel form looks weird af
ruby star
meager warren
a deer with a human skull? :thonk: