well defeated usually means killed in war
#beta-ptr-spoilers
olive mirage
meager warren
Talk to sas about that
stoic vortex
@elder otter
meager warren
anyway,back to thetopic at hand
@jade basalt is teaching other races to be DH/ DK do-able?
elder otter
Random ping received. Someone care to summarize or do I need to actually read through everything?
stoic vortex
Read through the stuff about Kek and Bur voice emotes till now
olive mirage
its not simply teaching, demon hunters have to consume a demon soul to actually become a demon hunter
stoic vortex
And?
wild moss
DH maybe, DK no i don't think so.
wild moss
i mean....no not that easy but ok sure.
meager warren
you're saying the lich king can't do that?
wild moss
i'm not saying the lich king can't, i'm saying why would the lich king do it for us
meager warren
because, more fodder?
stoic vortex
He'd do it for himself. EZ
olive mirage
WotLK 2: electric boogaloo
meager warren
being a DK is a curse
wild moss
Why would the lich king, the current lich king, want to raise more DKs.
meager warren
because after all the current ones rot away, what's the point of him
he has a job
he's got to do it
wild moss
Why would the current ones 'rot away'?
meager warren
they're literal zombies?
stoic vortex
@elder otter so you going to tell me about Kek and Bur emotes?
olive mirage
arnt they basically immortal due to the curse of undeath or w/e
elder otter
What am I supposed to tell you about them?
stoic vortex
I asked about Kek and Bur emotes, and was told to ask you about them, Sas
meager warren
i told Lilith to ask you if they want them to be added to wowhead server
elder otter
Ah, I see. Unfortunately I'd have to delete existing ones to add anymore, there's a limit. Also, I don't have a "kek" or "bur" emoji to add anyhow.
meager warren
oh rip :(
stoic vortex
We don't actually know how long a DK lifespan is
olive mirage
"All that I am: anger, cruelty, vengeance - I bestow upon you, my chosen knight. I have granted you immortality so that you may herald in a new, dark age for the Scourge."
—The Lich King's first words to a new death knight.
meager warren
The Lich King telling us that we're immortal doesn't mean shit
olive mirage
thats why im not sure
meager warren
he could have been lying
also, they're quite obviously not immortal either.
they can still die a true death
olive mirage
well they are most likely immune to death from age/disease
stoic vortex
Impervious =/= immortal
meager warren
impervious? wot
stoic vortex
Immortal means immune to age/disease
olive mirage
which they are
meager warren
but are they immune to rot
stoic vortex
Impervious means Achilles
stoic vortex
Greek myth. Read up on him.
olive mirage
achilles, he had only one weakness, his heel
meager warren
he was still vulnerable in his heel though so not really totally invulnerable
stoic vortex
Invincible people can die of old age or disease
olive mirage
well im pretty sure a dead person cant die of old age
stoic vortex
You have to be immortal AND invincible to be impervious.
meager warren
my claim was that Death Knights can rot, not that they can age
stoic vortex
Rotting would be the undead form of aging
stoic vortex
Seeing as DKs are "immortal" they can't rot
olive mirage
pretty sure the scourge would stop a corpse rotting
stoic vortex
^
olive mirage
cause then the armies wouldnt last that long
meager warren
If they're constantly moving, it takes more time to rot but idk either tbh
i could be wrong
however
being undead is a curse.
they still feel pain, can still bleed and die
stoic vortex
FDKs would never rot because cold, UDKs would never rot because necromancy, BDKs would never rot because vampirism
meager warren
stoic vortex
Posting a long since retconned item proves what?
meager warren
nothing.
however, DKs have been stagnating just as long and didn't get any new content until legion
so we don't know about the side effects of reanimation nowadays
olive mirage
there was a GM playing as a vulpera 
stoic vortex
As I said before, DKs can reverse rotting anyhow.
meager warren
care to share a source?
stoic vortex
don't need to, the nature of their specs reveals all.
meager warren
...not really, no
stoic vortex
Frost DKs would be below 0C in temp
Therefore impossible to rot
UDKs are expert necromancers
therefore capable of preventing rot
meager warren
what does them being expert necromancers imply?
stoic vortex
BDKs are literal vampires
meager warren
so, they can't prevent themselves from rotting?
stoic vortex
Where did I say anything of the sort?
meager warren
i'm not sure what you're referring to the meatwagons for
stoic vortex
Don't you remember the whole Kel'thuzad in a meat wagon thing in WC3?
olive mirage
so i saw someones argument on why they dont want vulpera to be an allied race
meager warren
olive mirage
"And being a playable race would mean they'd need a faction leader that is somewhat relevant"
cries in mekkatorque
meager warren
"recently"
stoic vortex
Mekkatorque was literally present at Broken Shore
He's even in the cinematic
That qualifies as somewhat relevant
meager warren
yes but aside from that, he's not given any screentime in legion whatsoever
stoic vortex
He probably repaired the Skyfire before Genn and Rogers got it shot down
meager warren
if he did, he's probably going to be reluctant to repair any ships from now on
stoic vortex
That he is
meager warren
stoic vortex
Or he blames Genn and Rogers for being stupid AF
meager warren
well, he's got a reason to
stoic vortex
^
terse patrol
wish they’d do something with him
ruby star
tbh as much as I hate to say it, Blizzard take Gnomes as a joke sadly xD
jade basalt
@meager warren The Illidari actually do train new demon hunters during the order campaign. Regarding "other races" there's no reason only elves could go through the training. And yes other races can become death knights as well, not just the playable ones. In WoD you have a pandaren death knight follower, Gravewalker Gie, and in Northrend there were even vrykul death knights. The only "problem" is from a gameplay standpoint since the starting zone is set in the past, so you can't have Lightforged death knights for example since they only showed up years later, and same for DH since their starting zone takes place during TBC. Unless you revamp the starting zone of course.
strange falcon
inb4 bolvar lich king expac 2.0 gives all allied races dks
uncut vault
I mean I kinda wish they'd revamp DK starting zone and level stuff, either make them a higher hero class, or make them start at 20 so races that make sense can be DKs
tulip sun
All races except lightforged and void elves I think make sense. The Death Knights raised many new DKs from fallen soldiers on the broken shore.
Lightforged obviously wouldn't have gotten to Azeroth until after the Legion was defeated
and Void Elves were not a thing.
Zandalari could be DKs, Dark Iron could. Kul'tirans I imagine, they were found on the shores
Mag'har wouldn't make sense, being AU and all
uncut vault
I think you forgot nightborne lol
hollow dock
Its not about lore tho.
Like. Lorewise -anyone- canbe anything. It's the logitistcs behind it
tulip sun
Ya, nightborne lol
They can be dks too
Vris, not DKs. They are not always raising new soldiers, and some races were not around when they were in legion
Highmountain also could be dks
tulip sun
Ha. That is cool
uncut vault
I like that theyre actually modeling armor around the allied race, instead of around a human skeleton
tulip sun
I cant stop thinking about rexar, lol
I love hoe his 2nd in command is a Highmountain too
I like seeing the nee races
Nee
New
Centurion Kaga Warmstone
How..
I need to just stop using my phone
hollow dock
I hope you know it only takes a powerful lich to make DKs
anyone for any reason can become a DK fi ya write it.
tulip sun
We are talking about archerus drsth knights
And you fought with me earlier about this even being possible
mint arch
F I G H T
hollow dock
Idd. Cuz no deathknights we make from here on out will be the same deathknights that made us in WoTLK. Cuz that was arthas. Different source for different DKs.
narrow rose
hey guys what you need to have before acces Lordareon scenario ?
strange falcon
i think it pops up as soon as you create a new char
uncut vault
its all characters now, but best to do on a new one to get the full intro
ruby star
Does anyone know why lightForged Draeni were not at the battle for Lorderaon?
I would of thought Turalyon would of been there
uncut vault
plot didnt demand them
dense plover
maybe theyre defending home because the burning of teldrassil scared the draenei?
maybe they dont believe in retaliation?
hollow dock
or maybe blizzard just isnt using them
dense plover
tbh, they havent given a reason
hollow dock
which makes a lot more sense.
hollow dock
I mean if your leader pledges the service of the army of the light. To the alliance. You'd think they'd show up when their allies are attacked and slaughtered.
ruby star
^
It's like Blizzard are just gonna ignore the Vindicaar which would win the Alliance the war if used
dim flower
terse patrol
👌
tulip sun
But you camt bring everyone to one battle and place
hollow dock
Unless theyre lore characters
then you should make every attempt to drag them into 1 spot
uncut vault
<@&299347348847329281> guy keeps spamming his server in channels
barren latch
Thanks you
jade basalt
And the other could be at the heart of the planet, for the world-soul. Kind of like Antorus. Since the other one is called "Uldorus".
If that wasn't meant to be just a funny reference to Antorus of course.
I wonder where Uld, Uld, Uld, and Uld are situated though
I noticed it's also missing the most important facility, Ulduld.
hollow dock
These are all Facilities right? They'd all be here on Azeroth then.
rich apex
🤔
jade basalt
I was kidding, I doubt there are 4 different facilities called Uld. It's just the Watcher bugging.
hollow dock
Uldorus and Uldazi.
And at least 1 other unknown facility that follows the same nameculture.
jade basalt
They also forgot Uldis.
You could argue it's not really a facility on par with the others.
Ahn'Qiraj too is missing.
hollow dock
Was AQ named AQ by the titans or the bugs that inhabit it?
jade basalt
It's got a bit of a confusing name, but it was actually named Ahn'Qiraj by the titan-forged yes.
Which is presumably why the Aqir that settled there (and evolved) would later be named the Qiraji.
hollow dock
So AQ is a facility that did not obey this supposed name culture of the other facilities but it's not listed on the facilities that have containment breaches.
jade basalt
Yeah. Presumably the watcher didn't have time to finish to list all the facilities, since it's bugging on "Uld.. Uld.. Uld.."
hollow dock
So Ahn'qiraji is the whole thing with Keepr Ra and the hive of Qiraji. What if its an offline facility and wouldn't be listed?
jade basalt
What do you mean by offline ?
uncut vault
not online, duh
hollow dock
As in, we wiped out Ra and we destroyed the facility did we not? Back in Vanilla?
Maybe not destroyed the facility, but there's certainly no one to check in with the rest of the facilities.
jade basalt
Ra was introduced (and "defeated", didn't kill him, he leaves at the end) in MoP
jade basalt
The titan facilities can be monitored from afar, from Ulduar which is the "main" one
Ya
hollow dock
I was thinkign of Osiris
jade basalt
Ossirian ?
hollow dock
yes. it's been a while since I've looked at AQ
jade basalt
All good. Ossirian isn't actually a Keeper or even a Watcher, he's an anubisath that had surgery was "blessed" by the Emperors , and as a result got a hawk head, for some reason.
hollow dock
Ah OK. Well there goes that theory.
jade basalt
I guess it is a bit confusing retro-actively if you didn't know that since Cata then introduced Rahj, a guy that looks quite like Ossirian because of the hawk head and all but who's actually a Watcher
hollow dock
jeez that's confusing. Well I still have to think that AQ is considerd an 'offline' facility as we dont actually see much in the ways of titan architecture that's everywhere else. Possibly overgrown by the Silithid hive that was built around C'thun.
gaunt helm
@everyone Anything new Coming to PTR?
gaunt helm
whats july gonna have?
hollow dock
Possibly prepatch at some point.
This is currently the beta/alpha chat as that's the current spot of the game
gaunt helm
is it hard to get alpha?
hollow dock
it's random
gaunt helm
Did u now that Ghuun is a old god?
hollow dock
G'huun is confirmed to not be an old god.
He is a titan experiment to study the old gods and was sealed away.
hollow dock
Not a confirmed last boss. But he is a boss.
strange falcon
@hollow dock he IS the last boss of uldir,if that's what you meant
distant folio
Ghuun is an Old God. He was created as the result of titan experiments on the Old Gods yes, but thats not exclusive with the fact that he is an Old God, thats mentioned all throughout Nazmir.
The titans basically created an Old God by accident
hollow dock
Except for the fact that the devs have stated he's not an old god, he is a titan experiment. He is no where on the same level as C'thun, Yogg or N'zoth.
An artificial old god, but very much a shadow of the real thing.
the reason people do call him an old god in game is because well. It acts very similarly to one, but it very much isn't one. Most of the world hasn't seen what the players have and so wouldn't make the distinction that we are able to make between them. They know old gods are blobs of flesh that control peoples minds and this thing is a blob of flesh that's controlling peoples minds so it must be an old god.
meager warren
@hollow dock, wdym by "logistics" when we're talking about other races being death knight or demon hunter? And for that matter, other classes
distant folio
Except for the fact that the devs have stated he's not an old god, he is a titan experiment.
No, what the devs said was that he was created as the result of titan experiments. They didnt say he was not an Old God. Hopefully you understand that Muffinus saying "G'Huun is the result of a titan experiment" and literally everybody in the game (including Titan Keepers, so not just your random goblin or troll making assumptions, but actual Titan constructs who have been watching over and studying him for millenia) saying "G'Huun is an Old God" are not mutually exclusive, right ? He can be both a failed experiment and an Old God. The Titans messed up and created G'Huun, another Old God. Its very simple. He's not on the same level as the other Old Gods either, no, but that doesn't make him not an Old God.
The titans just created a (weaker than the other 4) Old God by inadvertence, and locked it up in Uldir.
hollow dock
I only remember those outside of Uldir referring to G'huun as an old god, which are the random trolls or goblins, and the Titan keepers referring to him as an experiment. @jade basalt Any insight on this?
jade basalt
Ya the watchers call him an Old God as well, Keeper Hezrel is supposed to reveal it to you in a cutscene
PLACEHOLDER SCENE - Hezrel reveals G'huun being an old god, being experimented upon, and reveals blood trolls want to destroy Zuldazar in order to free G'huun. No way of fixing current containment, must protect Zuldazar.
I would prefer if he wasn't called an Old God but I don't really mind if that's what they go with, he's not really on the same level on the others so it's less awkward if adventurers kill him
Plus apparently we use a re-origination device to blast his face multiple times so
hollow dock
Oh that's interesting.
So wait the Temple of Re-origination wasn't the only weapon capable of destroying Azeroth?
jade basalt
It is, but the devs took a liking to the word so you find re-origination [something] a bit everywhere now, for example in the Argus fight there are "Re-origination Modules" and against G'Huun there's a "Reorigination Drive" which you charge up by placing Power Matrices in it and that triggers a Reorigination Blast to be unleashed on G'Huun
It doesn't actually re-originate crap, they just like the term. It does increase the damage he receives by a certain % for a few seconds.
hollow dock
re-origination is fun to say
meager warren
vris
hollow dock
when I speak of the logistics behind something, I am speaking of the behind the scenes stuff. Programming, setting it up, if it makes sense for the society to accept it, etc.
meager warren
i think making allied races hero classes would be a cake-walk for them in terms of programming.
Wdym by setting it up?
What society?
hollow dock
The races society.
uncut vault
Reprogramming entire classes to be dozens of levels lower would not be a cakewalk
hollow dock
and never assume programming is easy. It never is.
May I point you to our base bags. Adding 4 slots back in pandaria broke the game. It took em years to get it right.
meager warren
no need to make the classes lower leveled.
Just do the texture changes on their models, maybe make the horns bigger on trolls, add horns above the ears, add new tattoos and skin changes, make it fit lore, etc
Not like they didn't fix it and realized their mistake either way or anything
hollow dock
at that point they've put more work than an allied race actually needs/gets. Hence why it's better for them to just not do it.
distant folio
"Just do the texture changes on their models, maybe make the horns bigger on trolls, add horns above the ears, add new tattoos and skin changes, make it fit lore, etc"
I don't think thats the "cake walk" you mentioned
meager warren
Every race in the game can be Death Knights but allied races. 🤔
And if they're not going to work on allied races,then they're not getting enough work done on them.
hollow dock
and pandaren
meager warren
it's definitely a cake walk
distant folio
that is not a cake walk
meager warren
yes it is
hollow dock
The only reason Goblins and Worgen got it was because of one reason and one reason only. WoW was a lot easier to edit and alter.
distant folio
"Just do the texture changes on their models, maybe make the horns bigger on trolls, add horns above the ears, add new tattoos and skin changes, make it fit lore, etc"
uncut vault
They won’t do it the other way because dk allied races would have a clear advantage over other classes for leveling
distant folio
that does not sound like a cake walk
you're asking them to redo entire races
models*
hollow dock
which is again more work than allied races actually get
distant folio
yeah
meager warren
compared to the work done in BfA, Legion, and WoD, that is definitely more than a cake walk
distant folio
wrong
hollow dock
All the work they've done in Legion, WoD and BFA is the culmination of years of constantly working on it
meager warren
and why not?
every other race got it so it kinda seems stupid not to give it to them
distant folio
no other allied race got as much work as what you're asking for
hollow dock
Again not every race. p
misty blaze
i wonder what the pathfinder critieria is gonna be in bfa this time round
hollow dock
Pandaren still don't have the capability of being player DKs.
meager warren
every race except pandaren
river dirge
Blizz already explained that for now the DK starting experience is tied to a specific point in time in WotLK, so chances are that unless Bolvar makes a move and starts a new generation of DKs we won't be seeing many new races having access to DKs.
meager warren
same thing
distant folio
arent you talking about demon hunters?
"add horns above the ears, add new tattoos and skin changes"
sounds like demon hunter
meager warren
yes
misty blaze
watch them make pathfindcer level every allied race toi level 110 or something
hollow dock
And the only reason for that is because Goblins and Worgen got the in at cataclysm
close enough to WotLK to actually get legacy carried into DKs.
distant folio
yeah, so no. no other allied race got as much work as what you're asking for. demon hunters are actually (and ironically) more complexe than (some) allied races.
hollow dock
Not to mention Goblin and worgen are full races
distant folio
specially since they also need entirely new animations, wings, etc.
meager warren
obviously no allied race got as much work as that
hollow dock
not allied races. Allied races get a massivly less amount of work
meager warren
that's because no allied race can be hero classes
hollow dock
that's the point of allied races.
distant folio
except you said "compared to the work done in BfA, Legion, and WoD, that is definitely more than a cake walk" but then "obviously no allied race got as much work as that"
its not a cake walk.
river dirge
Also the fact that they had to juggle the lore to make Worgen DKs a possibility, for example.
meager warren
smh
hollow dock
It's not jus tbecause allied races don't get hero classes that they get less work on them, they get less work on them because they're just allied races.
river dirge
Pretty much. The way I see it, Allied Races are just... mini races, so to speak.
jade basalt
Demon hunters are sort of allied races of their own, which I always found funny. They're really more than a class, they're basically a (allied) race. They have custom voice overs and voice lines, tailored animations, and customization, and by "customization" I actually mean "literally twice as much customization options as any allied race has".
hollow dock
theyre basically the closest we'll have to playable demons tbh.
Why do people keep making Deathknights Koko?
jade basalt
Same reason we train death knights
hollow dock
Because the powers of said class are very much worth it.
jade basalt
We have playable night elves, nighter elves, blood elves, void elves, and fel elves. It's just that the latter also count as a class at the same time.
hollow dock
Demons still exist. The Burning Legion has basically disbanded, but demons are still an issue.
meager warren
and because demons will always exist
jade basalt
I think it's actually because they look pretty cool.
Who wouldn't want these tattoos
river dirge
But we're talking about a class that mingles with demonic energies, is very vulnerable to corruption, is taboo to at least one of the factions, and with a training that only... 1 in 5? actually survive.
hollow dock
Warlocks exist
meager warren
^
hollow dock
they've been doing it arguably for longer
jade basalt
You might argue that following the Legion's invasion would've also increased the amount of people willing to go through the "training", imagine having just lost your entire family to demons.
meager warren
^
river dirge
Of course, but the general idea is that the Burning Crusade is over.
Even if there's still demons.
hollow dock
Demon Hunters exist to protect Azeroth from demons. Just like the Ebon Blade exists to protect from the Scourge.
meager warren
you'd be surprised the lengths people would go when they want something, Koko
jade basalt
The Legion's invasion would also have made more people more familiar with the demons and their magic, which means more people taking up their power for themselves
hollow dock
Just because it disbands or is no longer a threat doesn't mean the organization disbands.
meager warren
^
hollow dock
As such, The Silver Hand is staying around. We revived that.
jade basalt
But really it's because the tattoos look cool.
river dirge
@meager warren, why would a large number of a race go through the process of becoming acquainted with the path of the Demon Hunter to justify its addition as a class choice, when we're just in the post-war triumphant moment of cheering about the end of the Burning Crusade?
hollow dock
That's why no other races are actually getting hte player class option Koko
that and the whole logistics of the starting area
meager warren
because they're always going to exist and wars are still going to happen
river dirge
Idk, assuming the sheer price there is to pay in becoming a demon hunter, this is arguably the worst point in history to argue for the creation of more demon hunters, the way I see it.
jade basalt
If we're talking within the context of "its addition as a class choice", I think agree. I'm not sure (m)any race will get demon hunter in the future. Even beyond the lore or gameplay or technical reasons, it'd just have to look cool. Devs do things that look/are cool. A pandaren demon hunter just doesn't feel right.
hollow dock
Whether or not these are large enough to excuse say
humans getting it
that's on the table for discussion.
river dirge
Of course, but I'd consider those folks would be an exceptional minority.
hollow dock
Exactly. and that's what the Devs do touch upon.
meager warren
tbh, the DHs thing is they'll do anything to save Azeroth.
Whether that be from demons or not is irrelevant
river dirge
Also, fundamentally for me the issue lies with the fact that Demon Hunters are very elven, part of their essence is the fact that they're a part of elven culture. I feel that widening the race spectrum for the class beats the point of the class fantasy for me.
meager warren
the class fantasy is fucking elven?
ha no
hollow dock
Then again this might be because I have been exposed to communities of the RP variety that have made their own DHs from run-a-way ex-illidari that taught them.
river dirge
idk, I'd find it hard to believe that a majority of people wouldn't associate "Demon Hunter" with "elf".
meager warren
tons of people don't play Demon Hunters because they're elf
the only thing about DH that is elven is they're illidari
hollow dock
Id say its harder to find people who can't associate it with Illidan. Him being an elf, as far as I've always felt, was irrelevant.
river dirge
If only because the classic portrayal of a Demon Hunter is part of Night Elf culture.
(Coming from WC3)
hollow dock
I dont know where you've seen that they're a part of Night Elven Culture
meager warren
we're not in classic anymore tho are we?
hollow dock
because Illidan is the only one and all night elves hated him
meager warren
^
river dirge
Yes, but in their inception they were a night elf "hero".
hollow dock
Well yea because Illidan was a 'hero' for the game itself. But that's where mechanics aren't really reflective of the lore itself.
As Illidan had been the only DH and been locked away and hated for it
uncut vault
The wc3/vanilla demon hunters were also shunned from society, and created a ritual based loosely off of Illidan. Definitely weren’t liked by night elven society but wc3 was a time of peril situation
meager warren
and anything in wc3 isn't relevant anymore since it happened 10+ years ago and it's been heavily retconned since
river dirge
That's right. They were outcasts, and arguably they're still not something that either faction has accepted with open arms to begin with in Legion.
meager warren
o rly?
not like they become champions of both factions or anything
hollow dock
But no where in there does that indicate its apart of the culture of Night Elves. That's where my confusion comes from. Where you had gotten that indication.
river dirge
And still all they have to show for it is a little camp in the capitals of the factions and being specifically called allies in this particular conflict.
hollow dock
Which they've only gotten because of the Legion Invasions across azeroth and their 'acceptance' in a time of dire need.
river dirge
Exactly.
uncut vault
Warcraft 3 demon hunter lore is still canon in legion so
hollow dock
Like we're not denying that it's a stretch and even agree with you Koko that the other races most likely are -not- getting DHs.
Edgy just like to complain for stuff he can't get.
meager warren
that's all?
they also have to show that their leader sacrificed himself to save the world, their soldiers helped kill Argus himself, and thus paved the way for the titans capturing Sargeras.
But no, apparently that's all irrelevant and all they have is a camp
hollow dock
You know Illidan didn't sacrifice garbage
meager warren
he gave himself to the titans
hollow dock
Just to escape our judgement
meager warren
he's literally Sargeras'sjailer
hollow dock
and you know that
meager warren
no i don't
river dirge
Sacrifice in a conflict you wanted to be a part of doesn't instantly make your faction a part of the greater factions.
meager warren
it does actually
river dirge
No it doesn't.
meager warren
yes it does
hollow dock
The Illidari are their own faction Edgy
river dirge
Politics do that.
hollow dock
but the Illidari aren't apart of teh Horde or Alliance
meager warren
but they're also a part of the Horde and Alliance
hollow dock
their DHs, which are the PCs, will -leave- the Illidari
river dirge
They're allied with the factions.
hollow dock
and join their respective factions
river dirge
Not part of them.
hollow dock
like we do with the Ebon Blade as DKs
and Silver Hand with Paladins
so on so forth
meager warren
are the death knights not part of the Horde/ Alliance then?
Are the Paladins?
Monks?
hollow dock
They are
meager warren
literally every hero class
hollow dock
but the EBON BLADe
isnt
the EBON BLADE is not all deathknights
the EBON BLADE is the faction of death knights
meager warren
well then how are the DH not
hollow dock
Just like the ILLIDARI are a faction of Demon Hunters
river dirge
Not the same. Read the quest text for the DH starting experience and you'll see that at least for the Alliance they're never included in it.
river dirge
The thing is that the vast majority of demon hunters are Illidari. Of course you can play a DH in RP that is not an Illidari.
hollow dock
and the PC Demon Hunters are apart of the Illidari, but they are also apart of the Horde and Alliance
hollow dock
same thing for the PC Deathknights
river dirge
Yes, by virtue of their race maybe they're part of it. Or maybe not since they joined a new faction: the Illidari.
hollow dock
While they are apart of the Ebon Blade, they are also in the Alliance and Horde. There's even induction quests specifically for us.
We represent the Ebon Blade/Illidari's interests within the respective factions
but that does not in any case make the Ebon Blade or Illidari apart of the Horde or Alliance.
river dirge
Agreed, but the thing is that to my knowledge the Illidari never officially became part of the factions because they never advanced from their exceptional alliance forged from dire need.
hollow dock
It is yet to be seen if the Illidari will be treated like the Ebon Blade but I think we can safely assume that a similar deal is struck
as Maeiv has not sealed us all back up in the vault
river dirge
I'm leaning for that option myself since of course they're not going to delete the DH characters.
But... well, we don't know how they'll go about it.
hollow dock
Personally I thinkthat because of the PC DHs work in the Legion campaign they will be rewarded their freedom and have eyes kept closely on them
river dirge
idk, I'd love the possibility of having say the NE DHs be pretty much controlled by the Sentinels/Wardens, with their other option being returning to their imprisonment. I think that'd be interesting.
But that's -very- unlikely.
hollow dock
in lore anything goes
but we're talking stricktly the gameplay so I think it'll be something like that.
river dirge
Knowing Blizzard I'm not even counting on that. Chances are we just get some obscure quote explaining that this agreement already happened and DHs are essentially pardoned or something.
But I really would love for something interesting to happen rather than "you earned this place now, you're free".
hollow dock
yea but its gameplay man. They're not going to write out a full interesting subplot taht'll get ignored
river dirge
A man can dream.
meager warren
maybe in TBC3.0, we'll get DHs of other races
jovial coral
Nah TBC can't happen again, again
meager warren
Legion was TBC 2.0
rich apex
muffled Bolvar-Scourge expansion looming in the background
And BFA is faction war and Old Gods
Much like Cata
🤔
zinc cave
WotLK 2.0 FTW!
quick quail
Mop was faction war with old gods
tropic trail
Nah BfA is if the south sea expansion rumors had a baby with MoP, and then they defurred all the pandas and called them human.
tropic trail
Sup everyone
distant folio
someone who has done or watched the Stormwind scenario from BFA
was rescuing Talanji and Zul the goal from the start, or did the Horde come for Saurfang (but he said no, and they left with the trolls instead)?
sharp bluff
Probably Suarfang, Trolls just kinda happened i think, but I do not know since I am not in the alpha
hollow dock
They did not come for Saurfang as far as I am aware
the Trolls were the objective. Saurfang was on the side.
sharp bluff
realy? did they know suarfang was captured?
dense plover
maybe?
they didnt care though
they go to get zul and talanji
Saurfang ignored the orders of Sylvanas, and she is warchief
she doesnt care to save him
sharp bluff
Well I mean that part makes sense, all the past warchiefs have a history of being betrayed
distant folio
@hollow dock wait so the Trolls were the objective from the start? how come, did they know each other?
sharp bluff
look at what happened last time someone ignored her, she died for a few minutes
hollow dock
Zul is the worlds representative of the Zandalari
the Horde wants the Zandalari
The horde is unaware of Zul's abuse of his power nor the status of Zandalar. So it's a pretty easy thing to muck up.
rich apex
The goal was to rescue Zul and the princess
I just did the quest earlier
Everyone refers to 'the prisoners'
plural
And Saurfang literally goes 'the people you are looking for are down the hall'
distant folio
So Saurfang wasnt even the goal
dense plover
nope
rich apex
I would think Saurfang was presumed dead
hollow dock
Considering the Hordes oath
rich apex
Given Sylvie goes 'have fun dying, loser'
hollow dock
that's basically a death sentence
rich apex
But the Undercity scenario is missing a -lot- of context without any of the cutscenes
dense plover
yep
sharp bluff
so its 50/50 probably they knew/did not know
rich apex
Maybe a bit more, but yeah
distant folio
Thanks everyone
meager warren
i'm honestly surprised that the Horde cares more for Sylvanas than Saurfang
wtf
Baine, where are you
hollow dock
Do you not know the horde mantra?
meager warren
Lok'tar Ogar?
hollow dock
it's much more than that.
meager warren
in that case no
hollow dock
Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde. I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command. From this moment until the end of days I live and die - FOR THE HORDE!
The blood oath of the horde.
meager warren
Wasn't it Saurfang who said that though
hollow dock
All members of the horde take that oath when they join.
meager warren
I don't remember taking any oath upon making new characters, or even Pandaren
dense plover
pandaren fight in the arena
tulip sun
^^^
dense plover
all the other races joined the horde prior to wow
tulip sun
You see the taunka saying it
dense plover
^^^^
tulip sun
I love that oath
meager warren
what arena
sharp bluff
Two zugs enter, one zug leaves
tulip sun
The arena uh, near where Ji sets up camp
Garrosh forces us to battle in it
To prove ourselves
tulip sun
It has not been used recently, most likely depending on warchief
But it is still valid
meager warren
oh. the brawl'gar arena?
tulip sun
Yya, i think
meager warren
the place where Garrosh cheated in Mak'gora against Cairne?
tulip sun
Ya
meager warren
👌
tropic trail
garry didn't cheat, he had no clue his axe was poisoned
tulip sun
If they had the cinematic capabilities they have now....that battle would be grest
Would have been great
tropic trail
The garrosh v thrall battle was awesome
hollow dock
yea where thrall cheated.
tropic trail
would've loved to see cairne thrashing him, until he got poisoned
hollow dock
it was great seeing him cheat in full HD CGI.
tulip sun
Ya, it was lol
meager warren
they can always re-do the fight-scene with anotherAU
hollow dock
AU azeroth with no horde on it when
meager warren
but this time, make Cairne the winner
hollow dock
cuz the legion isn't invading them for the third war anytime soon
since we broke them apart
and theres only 1 legion
So I wanna see that azeroth now
meager warren
can't have the alliance with no horde
hollow dock
alliance of human kingdoms formed before the horde.
meager warren
well yes but they were always fightingbefore the horde.
the horde brought them together
as ironic as that is
tropic trail
wouldn't AU azeroth have fallen during the war of the ancients since broxigar would've never shown up?
since the orcs never went to azeroth
in the AU timeline
tropic trail
alternate timelines are weird
hollow dock
Even without Brox, the WotA would have been won as it was the Demon Soul, later named Dragon Soul, that ensured the victory.
tulip sun
-really wants playable taunka-
rich burrow
that would be a weird azeroth without NE, orcs or tauren, many races that exist now... until we show up and are like, "ery, there is a whole nother continent." And then they would be, "wow, minds blown." lol
meager warren
-really wants playable everything-
NE, Orcs, and Tauren would still exist on AU Azeroth tho
tropic trail
watch, if blizzard ever gives us playable high elves, they're gonna be AU azeroth high elves or something
hollow dock
I wouldn't mind
Have Anastaerian come back
slap the shit out of Lor'themar
for betraying his own people
meager warren
maybe AU Azeroth is one in which the Horde and Alliance got through their shit and become friends?
hollow dock
AU Azeroth never had the horde invade
meager warren
another AU Azeroth then
rich burrow
Orcs and Forsaken no.
tropic trail
I'd assume sargeras would've still infested medivh, wonder what he chose to do instead
hollow dock
here's the issue with that green
theres only 1 sargeras
so the moment we seal him in the seat, when he's out of the nether, all other universes with him kinda falls flat
tropic trail
true, but medivh/aegwynn would've been corrupted by the time of WoD on AU azeroth
There only being 1 legion was a dumb plot point
hollow dock
In all fairness, in the Chronicles, it does state that Aegwynn was never actually corrupted by Sargeras. It was her own violition that she did all that she did. Medivh was still corrupted.
meager warren
AU means Alternate Universe.
Alternate as in different rules, characters, and stories
hollow dock
they dont have to be wildly different
AU Grom and our Grom are essentially the same Grom
meager warren
but yeah, there only being one Sargeras/ Legion is stupid
hollow dock
just 1 lost his wife early and the other didn't
meager warren
So in other words, they were wildly different
tropic trail
thought the biggest difference was Garrosh not being born. And an entire island missing of course
meager warren
whatisland?
hollow dock
If I recall right it was the place the Ogres came from
tropic trail
I thought that was where a bunch of draenei lived
isn't the ogre continent teased on the draenor would map to the south?
sharp bluff
SW is the ogre "Island" plenty of loose lore in WoD about it
tropic trail
here's I think an alpha WoD map https://cdn1.sbnation.com/assets/3538641/Warlords_of_Draenor_map.png
that large land mass in the southwest is smaller on the current map, but it's still there
isn't that the ogre land?
sharp bluff
Ogre place is the greyed out landmass in the SW, yes
meager warren
Spires ofArak is missing in outland
hollow dock
Spires of Arak had halfway fallen out.
Talador mixed with Spires made Terrokar Forest
That island to the Northeast is Farahlon which apparently was rumored to be a time spliced zone. The south was ogre lands.
sharp bluff
meager warren
Frosfire Ridge isalso missing in Outland. 🤔
hollow dock
it's almost like the landmass that is Draenor was breaking apart or something
and half of it has just gone missing
rich burrow
from what i can tell it looks like spires became terrokar forest shadowmoon valley is still shadowmoon valley, nagrand stayed relatively the same, gorgrond became Bladespire mountains, tanaan became hellfire, and that north easter island is the netherstorm region which means Frostfire Ridge was obliterated pretty much
hollow dock
Half of Spires broke off of the world. It's borders getting re-written to be half ofTalador to become Terrorkar while most of nagrand falls out and the other half of Talador becomes nagrand
oh and the ocean between Nagrand and Frostfire becomes ZAangarmarsh as the seas withdraw
rich burrow
pretty much lols forgot zangarmarsh lols
tropic trail
so what's the difference between garry recruiting the draenorcs to take over the world, and sylvanas recruiting them to?
tulip sun
She is not doing it to take over the world?
tulip sun
You apparently dont pay attention
tropic trail
I must have missed the part where they decided to stop fighting now that each faction has its own continent
meager warren
she's doibg it to raise more forsaken. that's the whole point of who she is.
winged heron
Ugh I hate that direction of her character
tulip sun
The reasoning she at least says
Is to drive the alliance from kalimdor do the horde is safer
winged heron
They are beating the shit up each other because someone burned down teldtassil
tulip sun
Lets be fair, she has reasons
winged heron
It’s a Misunderstanding
rich apex
It's not like Sylvie is expecting someone like Genn to just leave her in peace
tulip sun
The devs already said we wont know exactly who does it
winged heron
She was more unique and compelling before she went all predictably genocidal
tulip sun
I wouldnt say she is genocidal tbh
winged heron
Lol
winged heron
Sorry I’m just salty
rich apex
Remember The Golden Rule
meager warren
we're all salty here
rich apex
tulip sun
Goldie link
tulip sun
As a horde player
winged heron
Ahaha ha okie😢
tulip sun
I am satisfied woth what they are doing
I honestly dont particularly like what saurfang is deciding to do
winged heron
I just want All Hallows in Brill bavk
winged heron
I’m intrigued by what’s going on for sure
Less green projectile would be appreciated
meager warren
wdym u don't like what saurfang's trying to do?
why not?
winged heron
That makes a lot of sense
rich apex
TFW Undercity is pretty much Theramore 2.0 but garrosh did nuffing wrong
(unless you're Alliance, anyways)
meager warren
Garrosh did everything wrong.
And that'scoming from a Horde player
rich apex
Oh for sure he did
But half of the horde purists still whine about him because he's a REAL ORC
and not some thot being mean to poor, defenseless saurfang
🤔
meager warren
i don't seeSylvanas as a thot tbh.
maybe a hag
sharp bluff
She prefers banshee 😆
rich apex
There -is- a good conflict between Saurfang's 'honor or death' and Sylvie 'there is no honor in death if that death abandons your people'
But
Everyone reduces it to Saurfang is good and Sylvie is Evil
Of course, Sylvie -is- Not Nice
100%
tulip sun
Ya, but she is not completely evil. Despite what people think....she is doing what she can for her people
Saurfang would rather die in battle, which would kill off the horde quickly
tulip sun
And sylvanas straight up tells him to screw off lol
meager warren
we need a Horde 3.0
rich apex
Which is where 80% of the story is happening
tulip sun
True
rich apex
And the dialogue
But yeah
Original point was that Garrosh lures the Alliance forces into Theramore and uses the mana nuke
Sylvie lures the Alliance army into Undercity and blights it
tulip sun
But even the tauren realize that, sure, the blight is bad, but it is the only way to win the battle- save horde lives. Putting their own men infront of the enemies. That is the bad thing about war, but without yhe blight a lot more horde would have died
And sylvanas uses it as they are invading her city..which is a large difference
rich apex
Bonus points that Saurfang and the PCs are specifically ordered to evacuate the civilians before she blights everything
You know, for someone who doesn't care about anyone but herself
🤔
tropic trail
why are they still developing blight that kills undead?
rich apex
Side eyes Bolvar
sharp bluff
^
rich apex
Or all the DKs, after Koltira 😛
sharp bluff
🤷 it is a (un)living
rich apex
Why is she bothering to lead the Horde at all if she doesn't care
Not in an empathetic, nice sense
But something probably mildly obsessive and unhealthy
Because that's undeath for you
meager warren
power?
influence?
Wealth?
rich apex
What does any of that matter to the undead
meager warren
what does any ofthat matter to the living
rich apex
Bonus points that the novel prologue specifically notes she doesn't even want to or like being warchief
Which is before everything goes down in BFA, of course, but still
Being rich and alive is a pretty nice combo
Given various pleasures that go hand in hand with that
sharp bluff
Undead feel no pleasure, so not those
meager warren
Undead can feel painthough
meager warren
?
tropic trail
I assume they were talking about the rampant erp on moonguard and about how undead don't feel pleasure
but most of the erp on moonguard happens in goldshire
and undead aren't allowed there
mint arch
sylvanas, while evil, is not dumb... she knows success of the horde = success of the undead = more undead from the war = she is further awy from death
its all she cares about
tropic trail
I don't think thats true tho, she sacrificed a valkyr just for nathanos, basically giving him one of her 1ups
she does still care for people
mint arch
cause she "loves" nathanos
tropic trail
just not in such a touchy feely way
Yeah, but would she do the same to any other undead?
tropic trail
like, if she had to choose between her life and all the other forsakens, I think she'd sacrifice herself
mint arch
i disagree there
tropic trail
Unlikely.
meager warren
^
mint arch
she would sacrifice the forsaken before herself, every time
meager warren
^
mint arch
her new goal after wrath = don't die
its her only real goal and care
not to die
and she will do w/e she possibly can to not die
tropic trail
I'm not so sure
mint arch
ends justifying her means
tropic trail
but we'll have to wait for BfA to see
mint arch
she has not shown she cares for the forsaken to the level that she would sacrifice herself
her goal in stormheim was for herself, not her ppl
meager warren
i bet if that choice comes to pass, blizz is actually going tosacrifice the forsaken for her
tropic trail
Well, when Sylvanas kermit'd she realized what death was really like after the fact so she's been trying to keep herself alive ever since
winged heron
The problem is
She is now creating “her people” so she will have more justification to use questionable means to protect/raise more of “her people”, which had been just those who died under the Scourge in the beginning. And the banshee queen was sympathetic because she provided unity and shelter for those corpses
mint arch
imo, what she saw in her death was old god stuff
tropic trail
what's the point of her keeping the forsaken alive now tho? she has the whole rest of the horde to use as a shield
but she's still trying to save the forsaken
tropic trail
Because the forsaken are more disposable
mint arch
she cant use the rest of horde like she can undead
tropic trail
One can die and she can easily raise 6 more
mint arch
its why she wanted more valkyr
and she went ahead made a deal with helya and tried to enslave Eir
winged heron
But wouldn’t those she kills to raise just resent her
tropic trail
Not quite.
mint arch
they may resent her, but they don't have a choice once ur undead
winged heron
I thought the whole point of the forsaken is that they finally have free will
tropic trail
Forsaken don't entirely have a mind of their own, hence mentioning the death knights.
mint arch
its questionable to say they have complete free will
there is some free will, but i doubt it's absolute
tropic trail
They have "Free will" but not free will, if that makes sensr
winged heron
Then she’s just like arthas then :/
winged heron
sigh
tropic trail
Mhm. Though not on the same scale as he was
winged heron
Ofc not but the same where it matters
I just wish blizzard didn’t make her this way
tropic trail
Either way, #SaurfangForWarchief
mint arch
blizzard should never have made her warchief
tropic trail
literally no one else they could have made warchief
mint arch
disagree
tropic trail
I think Saurfang would've been a better warchief if he would've been used in MoP
except saurfang
who doesn't want warchief
winged heron
I loved leveling up as a undead and finding solidarity with fellow undead a following our cool lady
mint arch
imo, she shouldve been made a general of the horde against the legion
tropic trail
That's where you're wrong Green.
mint arch
and then warchief matter settled after legion
tropic trail
It never states he never wanted it.
sudden oak
in the cannon rn the forsaken do have full free will but those that are risen just before dying or that died under a lot of stress enter in a kind of blood lust haze
tropic trail
Thrall never gave it to him because it was right after his son died, so he thought he wouldn't be able to handle it
mint arch
well, sylvanas doesnt want the warchief mantle either
meager warren
In the Forsaken storyline, they have free will but apparently that's different now
winged heron
The question should be directed to the loa that spoke to zuljin
Yes edgy I hate that retcon
mint arch
i mean, we know there is old god meddling with this whole thing
mint arch
its an old god expansion, there is meddling going on on both sides
this whole AvH shit is just for the start
winged heron
Ahh the whole crazy bitch ultimately under influencence plot
mint arch
and promo
tropic trail
No it's not.
sudden oak
edgy do you mean the questlines in silverpine and the plaguelands?
tropic trail
thought you meant with voljins vision
mint arch
imo, voljin's vision was.... i dunno
winged heron
Summon him to Explain
mint arch
well, we'll probably get to talk to him and ask this xpac
tropic trail
^^
mint arch
voljin's ashes, the new warchief!
sudden oak
@EdgyTroll#9235 are you talking about the questlines in silverpine and plaguelands?
wtf
why cant I tag him
winged heron
I still don’t want sappy boi to die
sudden oak
@meager warren
winged heron
Zappy
mint arch
did he leave server?
sudden oak
now
mint arch
ah
sudden oak
no just discord being retard
meager warren
i'm talking about both
mint arch
zappy new troll leader
meager warren
the only way you're going to get rid of me is if the mods ban me
mint arch
wow's final xpac
tropic trail
I'm sure that could be arranged.
mint arch
we become the new titans
sudden oak
as I said the forsaken risen in silverpine and the plaguelands questline where resurrected as soon as they died
and they were in a blood lust haze
therefore not giving a shit about anything
mint arch
hmm, raising undead is another whole can of worms
tropic trail
In their case, a skull of worms.
winged heron
LET ME DIE IN PEACE
sudden oak
as soon as the blood lust haze is gone they have 100% free will
winged heron
“Hi there welcome to the skeleton war”
tropic trail
Garrosh wanted an orcish horde.
mint arch
the skelly wars
just get baine on the warchief role pls
baine and anduin
two young
tropic trail
The Great Emu war
mint arch
baine and anduin, both will grow into the roles, its a nice parallel
tropic trail
I feel like Baine would be a decent chieftain
winged heron
Sylvie can just sit and raise more undead it’s not like we are in shortage of dead people in azeroth
meager warren
if our PCs had actual choice, i'd raise hell for the Horde and Sylvanas until she kills me for betraying her
winged heron
Baine gets overlooked by the writers
Most of the time now it feels like he’s just there along for the ride
mint arch
its dumb... our PCs have to go along with w/e sylvanas is demanding -_-
meager warren
"The dead always outnumber the living."
winged heron
And then the soil will become malnourished :/
mint arch
honestly, come join the void people! our lord and saviour nzoth will accept you all! :D
meager warren
Baine agrees with Saurfang, according to the pre- Wound in the World cinematic
mint arch
we dont care for the stupid squabblings of the alliance and horde!
winged heron
What it all comes down to is that they should make the whole raising dead mechanic clearer
meager warren
Void Elvesare in Alliance tho
tropic trail
I feel like we need more neutral races
meager warren
^
winged heron
Yes
tropic trail
Nightborne and/or Void elves would've been a decent choice
meager warren
wild moss
If everyone is dead it doesn't matter if the soil is malnurished
winged heron
I want the wardens to leave nelves and be like a rogue navy seals
mint arch
honestly neutral races needs to happen at some point
only so much forced AvH
we can have
-_-
wild moss
Truth.
mint arch
then the pandaren can go to what they should've been, neutral
winged heron
Yes I get they want the nostalgia but at this point wow story is just miring itself
meager warren
The neutral faction should be called the Shado Pan
mint arch
#saurfang'svoiceforwarchief
meager warren
would have been nice if Saurfang challenged Sylvanas to Mak'gora instead
of being emo
tulip sun
In the middle of a battle? Lol
meager warren
yes
it's not really Mak'gora if you're safe
That reminds me
Mak'gora 2.0: Whoever dies first is the loser but in battle against other people
tropic trail
There needs to be a male vulpera dressed like robin somewhere
solely because they share a voice actor
ruby prawn
They can't participate in mak'gora because Sylvanas is dead already
I don't think she is legal anymore
Do undead ever get tired?
Undead don't get tired so it's not fair for Saurfang
hollow dock
Undead do not tire, they do not require food, water, rest. Anything. They dont even properly feel pain like we would since most of the nerves are rotten out.
Not to mention killing an undead can be either very easy or deceptively difficult. Thankfully Sylvanas has chosen the former.
tulip sun
You can chop arms off abd they are still good lol
But Sylvanas still has one life guys
So any of you wishing she dies, sorry
hollow dock
She still has at least what. 4 lives left?
hollow dock
She started with 9 Valkyr right? 9 primes
zinc sandal
She’s got around 4, yeah
hollow dock
It has only taken one as far as I remmeber. since they're only taking her place in the shadowlands
tulip sun
IlI may be remembering wrong
sharp bluff
It takes more then 1 Valk to Rez her now I think
hollow dock
https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/wowpedia/d/d8/Manga_Sylvanas.jpg While we're talking about Sylvanas, her representation of the Sunwell magna series was.....weird.
hollow dock
According to Dungeons and Dragons, yea.
tulip sun
So still, she is not leaving us in bfa
sharp bluff
1 Valk at Icecrown, 3 in Silverpine
It is based on the strength of the Valkyr from what I can find
So she may have 2 lives left
Icecrown was the eldest Valkyr, silverpine was the youngest and 2 others
hollow dock
and we ended up killing 1 of the prime valkyr in Andorhal and then another one has been weakened giving Nathanos a new bod
winged heron
I’m so depressed about the horde. I know they said many things are yet to be revealed but idk I’m sad Kermit in the tub
terse patrol
Sylvanas’ face when her sister is totally cooler than her now. 
uncut vault
There's no real basis for the whole "its takes progressively more valkyr to bring her back" stuff
all three being sacrificed was just to wrap up loose ends in the zone
terse patrol
“we dont like being the aggressors, but we want to have warmongering leaders in power T^T”
hollow dock
its almost like being a warchief either makes you or tries to make you into a warmonger.
hollow dock
whaaa
no
Warchief is clearly
CLEARLY
a peaceful sounding position
it has 0 ties to barbaric tendancies
terse patrol
It’s not like any historic society who’s king level title is called ”warchief” was warlike in any fashion.
winged heron
“Why are you sad when *lists reasons to be sad about *” let me die
hollow dock
Exactly honk
sharp bluff
Horde respects strength at this point 🤷 , at the moment she is the one doing what needs to be done. : Saurfang refuses to lead, never trust a goblin leader, I doubt the belf guy wants to leave Silvermoon, pandas won’t lead, who leads Darkspear again now?, and nothing against Tauren guy, but he really hasn’t done much other then recruit Highmountain at the moment : I don’t like or hate her as warchief, but at this point we kind of need it
Survival
hollow dock
She's made you guys need her tho
sharp bluff
Saurfang won’t help
hollow dock
Like. Anduin was happy to put down the sword and extend a hand
She wants to wipe out the alliance
sharp bluff
Most of the datamined text has her wanting to separate the two correct? Not kill
sharp bluff
Everyone knows the gnome would lead better
hollow dock
she 100% states that she believes the horde cannot exist with the alliance in peace
and tells Nathanos she plans on attacking Stormwind as soon as possible
She never wants peace. She wants death. It's what fuels her.
sharp bluff
And they are rewriting it now judging by the datamined stuff
sharp bluff
Yep, and game trumps book in WoW
hollow dock
it was an excerpt of the book.
winged heron
They retcon things all th le time
hollow dock
The book is an expansion
of the game
You can't ignore hte book
it is apart of the lore
ruby star
Dw Slyvanas would fail attacking stormwind
winged heron
Eh books can suck sometimes
hollow dock
Also Friendly, they aren't retconning more stuff. that's the point of Chronicles
and all of Golden's books are top tier and beloved by the community. She knows how to write.
winged heron
Yea I know I’m just sad
ruby star
Yeah Golden is great
winged heron
Yea I like the latest chronicle too
They actually putting foot down clearing things up
hollow dock
and you can argue that they escalated it because she retreated and got Varian killed but then you can argue that some event BEFORE that is why they did that so on so forth so on so forth somethingsomething no one learned a god damn thing from Pandaria
tulip sun
They gave her a good reason to declare wae, lol. The horde follows her now. If they would have held off, and she attacked dirst, the horde would have rebelled again