Our classes still kinda rely on them. Unless they completely fix all the reliance issues in Prepatch then I dont see why you'd heavily nerf all the classes by removing them
#beta-ptr-spoilers
hollow dock
heavy cairn
they are fixing the issues, that's the whole justification for artifacts going away past 110
hollow dock
Yea I know. But I dont think it'll get removed in prepatch because of the reliance. Plus it'd remove a lot of the reason people do keep playing which is grinding out AP. It's a lot for blizzard to handle and IMO the easiest way to fix it is to not push in all the changes until BFA hits.
heavy cairn
prepatch is when the ability changes come, there's no reason for it to wait
prepatch will have other activities to do à la legion invasions, AP grinding going isn't a valid response
dense plover
uh
dude
the question is literally about after Legion
if i was a gambling man, i would place money
heavy cairn
and I'd laugh when you lost it
tulip sun
Hmm
dense plover
except i wont
tulip sun
I wonder if maghar will be a part of the war campaign like dark iron
dense plover
zero evidence for what you describe
theyve been very clear that the after legion is part of heading in to BfA
also khammin
yes they will
they are for horde
DI are for alliance
mental kite
@dense plover
It would make no sense to burn out everything until BfA
Because everyone's stats and abilities would be massively reduced during Legion
with no counterbalance or stat changes
hollow dock
We were told that yes theyre coming together @tulip sun
a good example is Helya onmythic
she is specifically designed to have the 5% damage buff from the artifacts
If that gets removed, that would make her very difficult to kill on mythic
hollow dock
theyre coming together
tulip sun
They appear s lot
hollow dock
Frostwolves for Horde.
tulip sun
Will maghar characters appear
tulip sun
I mean, I have not seen anyone. We know a name for their leader but that's all
hollow dock
theres even a joke that as she arrives the orcs straighten their back
in game representation means nothing to blizz Kham
tulip sun
I don't care if it does or not
That was my question
Does it look like they are taking part in the campaign, as the dark iron do
hollow dock
No
meager warren
i think the answer to that question is obvious, kham
hollow dock
I like how that was obvious to edgy but almost nothing else I imply is
tulip sun
I guess I was hoping it was not added yet
hollow dock
Like I said. Blizzard uses their lore characters as theyre relevant to the story and dont just toss em in for no real reason.
tulip sun
Mag'har are literally the reward for the war campaign
How does it not make sense to have them appear
hollow dock
Because we might just go and recruit em and that's it?
tulip sun
Look at dark iron though o.o
hollow dock
The dark iron are in a position where Moira's dark irons are already in the alliance
meager warren
because the mag'har has no business in a pointless faction war.
the dark iron have already participated in the war.
AU mag'har haven't
hollow dock
So they'll be present no matter what.
Where as Mag'har the horde go out of their way to recruit
so for launch, they're not really present. Maybe that changes in the future, maybe it never does
tropic trail
Looks pretty good for heritage armor
except the way it hugs the females breasts in that picture, looks really weird.
but other than that, KT heritage armor is amazing
tulip sun
It seems ok nice enough for me
tropic trail
Still not a fan of the KT body types, but I think I'd play one for this armor.
hollow dock
hats are nice. I hope the Kul Tirans get a hat
tropic trail
you change your pic to a high elf?
terse patrol
gotta rep the one true alliance master race
ruby star
^
strange falcon
i liked the previous vris profile pic more o.o
tulip sun
Guess no build today
hollow dock
new build with the raid probably
dense plover
^
usually tuesday is expected
but it seems reasonable to wait for right before the raid
especially since they want to wait until everything is stable
pallid coral
@main urchin looks like FinalBoss posted his interview with Morgan Day & Daniel Stahl from Pax East.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ0BvSsdZeY
tulip sun
When is the raid releasing?
strange falcon
yes ^
uncut vault
for the heritage set, I think they might go with the variant they originally teased, since it has a matching hat and proudmoore colors
tropic trail
they could just start having color variants of the heritage armor, since a few others also have different colors that are unusable.
dense plover
its very possible
wild pewter
Twitter
dense plover
guess theyre trying to get a patch ready and running into issues
maybe we will see one tomorrow
yeah
this makes it seem likely
Twitter
they might actually be trying to get it out tonight
uncut vault
would be nice
dense plover
my guess is they are having issues
or they want to get ALL the things they added in there
this is supposed to be the warfront build
so thats a lot of things that could go wrong
wild pewter
Plus raid testing on Friday
dense plover
yep
though its tech testing
so its not about balance as much as it is framerate and glitches
dense plover
unlikely
its really late
but they are probably going to do as much as possible
and get it out ASAP tomorrow
tropic trail
That'll make 2 blizzard game updates I'll be excited for tomorrow
uncut vault
what else updates tomorrow?
hollow dock
EU updates tomorrow.
tulip sun
What do you mean EU
uncut vault
I mean its already tomorrow in EU
hollow dock
meaning its not updated yet
He could also be refering to Hearthstone which has its new expansion launching tomorrow
tropic trail
I'm waiting for the HotS balance update tomorrow, that's what updates tomorrow
uncut vault
heres hoping they also buff some supports instead of nerfing malf and stukov
tropic trail
but maybe they're not releasing anything today so they don't overshadow overwatches events
not overshadow
detract from
uncut vault
HotS PTR usually releases on mondays anyways
probably just part of the slowed hero release schedule
tropic trail
does it? I thought it was usually tuesdays, but either way, looks like we're not testing him until next week
it feels a lot later than it actually is here, I thought it was like 10, but it's only 7:30
hollow dock
is the balance notes up yet?
tropic trail
for Hots? no not yet, but most people assume they'll have a balance patch tomorrow
ruby prawn
Is it true that there might be black dragons involved in BfA?
rich apex
In an Island Expedition, apparently
ruby prawn
That sounds weird
rich apex
Unless this one tinfoil 'leak' post I saw way back was actually right about Wrathion showing up with some kind of dragon-related Allied Race 😛
Ehh
They just added a bunch of variety to Island NPCs
Saurok and hozen and so on
It's not exactly a major story point
(regardless of what Wrathion says about being the last one)
ruby prawn
And what about the dks and the red dragonflight
rich apex
Well
ruby prawn
Why are the dks going to them
ruby prawn
The four horsemen want cool dragons as us?
tropic trail
when the devs said that we'd be running into more black dragons, they definitely made it sound like it was an actual story point
And with ebonhorn showing up, it's a bit hard for there to not be more story with wrathion, even if he's not directly involved with the main plot anymore
rich apex
Welp, if they do, it'll sure be in something besides the Island Expedition
uncut vault
heres hoping hes a part of before the storm
I really cant see who else could make anduins story interesting in it
rich apex
in before Wrathion did Teldrassil
'the alliance must destroy the horde so they'll be ready to defeat the void lords'
'so get cracking on that mass murder anduin'
'orgrimmar won't raze itself'
tropic trail
Turalyons interaction with anduin could be interesting
Wrathion is probably going to become medan 2.0
unfortunately.
uncut vault
Eh, Me'dan was a flawless character thats widely hated
people have asked for wrathion back for years
tropic trail
I meant in terms of being retconned out, he's been cut out of every storyline he was meant to play a role in
even the ones he foreshadowed
anyway, I'm getting a headache from losing to fenix, time for sleep.
uncut vault
being cut from stories =/= being rectonned out, wrathion has just been missing, medan no longer exists
meager warren
how is me'dan relevant?
jovial coral
Do you think the Titans could be trapped in the emerald dream somehow
meager warren
no
cinder knoll
last time I checked, they were in Seat of the Pantheon
jovial coral
Are they sleeping
cinder knoll
no
they just sit on their chairs 😄
btw didnt you selected wrong discord server? I'm used to hear questions like this on Pyros discord 😄
meager warren
?
cinder knoll
it looks like a lore-newbie trying to come with some cool theory, thats common on Pyros discord, not on BFA wowhead channel
but Im just guessing based on few things he wrote
meager warren
it's definitely common here
cinder knoll
rly? I hear that more often on Pyros discord, but Im online not that often, so its biased
meager warren
i don't remember that specific question being asked but there's a lot of conjecture here.
Mostly about old gods and titans
cinder knoll
ye why not, everyone can ask, but its different when you ask something what doesnt really make sense in a specific way
like when he asked if Titans could be in Emerald Dream, what the hell they would do there? 😄
unless he just didnt wrote clearly what he asked
nevermind
jovial coral
I said trapped though not just "be in"
cinder knoll
I think I overlooked that one, but it doesnt really change the result does it? they are in Seat, not in ED
hollow dock
its more so they sealed themselves in the Seat to trap sargeras.
The emerald dream specifically is only on Azeroth so no way for them to be there.
tulip torrent
its better than the last version
i know its a xmas hat if someone who hasnt seen your previous avatars may not recognize it as such
meager warren
what do those two things have to do with each other
hollow dock
none what so ever
we believe it'll be tomorrow or friday before the raid testing starts
dim flower
Oooh raid testing soon?
Fun
How’s the pvp look so far?
I’ve been wanting to have fun in pvp ever since very recently, but I still have been.
strange falcon
well i dont think war mode is implemented yet
dim flower
War mode sounds fun though
heavy cairn
I think war mode is implemented, actually
heavy cairn
let me check..
heavy cairn
I saw the button but I didn't bother going to org to activate it
uncut vault
basically everyone will level with it
heavy cairn
nevermind--no war mode on the alpha
dim flower
Rip
uncut vault
cause basically nobody will be on the opposite continent week 1
dim flower
Everyone’s going to try it, then all the casuals will spec out once they die once.
I think that was an image showing it’s existence.
Datamined?
uncut vault
I mean on Moon Guard I know a looooot of people will stay in it permanently
heavy cairn
but that's ingame
heavy cairn
I'm guessing it was available in an earlier build but not anymore ¯_(ツ)_/¯
dim flower
Maybeee
I think it was just hinted at
Since I’ve only heard rumors of things being put in, like Ion mentioning a crate that people will flock to, making a PvP flashpoint.
I heard that in a Bellular video though
strange falcon
that was an example
dim flower
Yeah
heavy cairn
the only copy I see of that image is on Wowhead or sites that copied wowhead, so I still think they found it somewhere on the alpha 🤔
hollow dock
Blizz hasnt announced testing for it yet. Surely it'll be up on beta.
Im also thinking that the 'extra rewards' will be for PVP only. So those wanting to stay in it get rewarded for it as Blizz is looking to make PVP gear for PVP again.
strange falcon
basically from what we know,when you activate war mode,yes you are flagged for pvp,but you get 4 extra talents,and get "extra rewards" which could be exp,azerite or whatever
dim flower
I would’ve thought the ability to use honor talents was the reward
But the extra rewards might be honor and stuff
hollow dock
I personally think those extra rewards are pvp based.
Like gaining honor and normal xp at the same time
dim flower
I doubt conquest unless war mode brings in those example flash points
Maybe elite flash points could reward conquest?
tulip torrent
that icon
is probably a placeholder
because its the icon of one of the skills of the holy paladin
Vris
they confirmed in one of the interviews
that war more will give you extra exp
but i doubt that it would be a significant amount
heavy cairn
war mode probably not going to be used by people for levelling except for a short time after launch when there won't be level 120s running around in war mode
I highly doubt the XP amount will be significant (if that is indeed the "reward")
hollow dock
IMO they should just make it to where youre gaining Honor for PVP ranks with normal XP
heavy cairn
now that would be great
at level 120, would be a nice touch to get honor for every WQ done
hollow dock
That way those thay do want to PVP can earn thise levels early, those that need to catch up can level alts in War Mode
Etc
And it doesnt force PVErs to PVP for sone extra xp to make leveling faster
ruby star
hopefully a new build will be out tonight 😄 and Warfront
The warfronts do generally look like a lot of fun
heavy cairn
I'm hoping they decide to let us get to level 120 -_-
ruby star
They might hopefully, I mean Beta is very soon, so I wouldn't be surprised
heavy cairn
well I suppose for the testing that matters, we are already scaled to level 120
ruby star
Yeah I know, but you can't play them officially on alpha
heavy cairn
wouldn't mind if level 120 was only available after beta I guess
hollow dock
I dont see why youd need to reach 120
you're there to test what's available. Theylll scale you up as required.
heavy cairn
yes, but I need level 120 to test the level 120 storylines that unlock after completing the continent's quests 😉
hollow dock
How do you know they're actually on there for you to test?
ruby star
wouldn't be surprised if they are on the beta builds instead
heavy cairn
I doubt they are there in their entirety, but I'm sure the non-scenario parts are there
tulip sun
Was the stormwind scenario ever readded?
hollow dock
If you aren't testing it, Im fairly certain its somewhat safe to say you're not meant to test it
and yes it was Kham. People already tested through it.
Was like one of the first things to get processed through.
hollow dock
because it was tested through
tulip sun
I am just going to stop talking.
grand grail
have the class trials been changed for the beta
like instead of being on a boat to the broken shore are you now on a boat to darnassus or undercity
hollow dock
We dont know. Probably something to test in beta and not in alpha atm
ruby star
^
dense plover
it looks like, from the map files
you are at the silithus battleground
but not the actual battleground, just the map
and are doing something with azerite
that boost then probably leads you to the azerite necklace
and from there the experience is the same as everyone else
ruby star
btw Peach, good luck for tonight 😄 ( assuming another build + wave of invites go out)
wild pewter
Good luck!
ruby star
hopefully warfronts are added officially for testing, I'd love to get an invite and test them, so fingers crossed 😄
tulip torrent
gl
dim flower
Dude
I’ve wanted to see warfronts for so long
Still hoping we get the PvP version of warfronts
They don’t have plans for it but fingers crossed
ruby star
@dim flower Theres gameplay of it on Twitch (VOD)/Youtube (Towelliee) but yeah Warfronts look soo good! 😄
dense plover
very likely warfronts are today
ruby star
Yess hopefully! 😄
ruby star
^
dense plover
but considering they delayed until today?
or later
it makes sense
maybe theyll finally add some of the azerite stuff from dungeons
add some more of the dungeons
etc
ruby star
Yeah, looking forward to them! 😄 (hopefully we'll get invites peach 😄 ) and yeaa!
I mean beta is also very soon 😄
dim flower
Yo if anyone gets an extra alpha like Evitel (or however you spell her name) can ya pass me the key? Lmao
Kidding but damn
I’ve been craving alpha play
ruby star
It's not possible to give people alpha if you got an extra alpha, as it's put onto your account I believe
rich apex
It is
dense plover
beta has keys
rich apex
Er, yeah, I meant that it is put onto your account
dim flower
Toss me a key if anyone gets an extra
dim flower
Ik
dense plover
and you have just as high a key chance as we do 😭
rich apex
^
dim flower
Peach has been crazy active in this server
hollow dock
that's on blizzes good side
dense plover
well, keys can also be won through giveaways
dim flower
Maybe he has a higher chance
dense plover
nope
dim flower
.1% higher
dense plover
nope
hollow dock
This server isn't a blizz server
dense plover
this server doesnt give keys
dense plover
wowhead does key giveaways
hollow dock
We being active here has nothing to do with blizzard giving us keys
meager warren
i'm also crazy active but i doubt bliz gives a shit
dense plover
and those are won through contests
hollow dock
and WoWhead is 100% going to do it randomly
dim flower
Yeh but like mrpeach is level 2 active
dense plover
sometimes they do talent contests
rich apex
Just get a 100k subscribers on your youtube channel and you're good
hollow dock
^
meager warren
lvl 2 active?
dense plover
i wont a beta key for a piece of music i wrote for Legion
dim flower
Mhm
meager warren
wat
dense plover
which is why im working on a similar thing for BfA
dim flower
Then there’s level 3 but nobody but bots are level 3
And only Hogger is level 4
Hogger confirmed final boss for BFA!
dense plover
not without a new model
hollow dock
Hogger is stronger than N'zoth confirmed
dense plover
though i was actually thinking about that recently
they need to give gnolls a new model
dim flower
Still waiting for those new plainstrider models Blizz
hollow dock
I think its gnolls are the only ones without a new model
dense plover
those too
dim flower
Or do we have them now
dim flower
Everyone did
dense plover
gnolls, plainstriders, giraffe things
hollow dock
Zebras
dim flower
Even though crendor made a whole documentary on them
hollow dock
they thought of everything but Gnolls, Plainstriders and Giraffes
dense plover
they need to update the base cat/cheetah/lion model too
dim flower
You can’t forget the plainstrider
hollow dock
they should just extend the 'Legion' bat to the rest.
Like theyre doing with the Forsaken Bat
dense plover
the felbat?
hollow dock
yea.
dense plover
no
the forsaken one makes sense
but the base bat has a newer model
it was added in Cata or MoP
its used in nazmir
hollow dock
Oh its like the store mount one right?
sharp bluff
Love that mount, still hoping for a Troll Bat mount
hollow dock
yea they should back port it.
meager warren
i'm kinda disappointed that the DH class hall bat mount is basically the same as the new forsaken mount
sharp bluff
Kinda expected though, look at some of the others, Warrior and DK being the big offenders there
meager warren
i don't know what the warrior and DK mounts are
sharp bluff
Warrior one is a ironbound drake recolor with armor
meager warren
oh.
well that's another disappointment
sharp bluff
you exalted with the Valajar Saeris?
sharp bluff
exalted then hope for their daily to be up
dim flower
After exalted
sharp bluff
ya
dim flower
Damn
sharp bluff
same as fox
dim flower
AW DAMN
sharp bluff
rare chance
dim flower
Those are both hot mounts
meager warren
define hot in this context
dim flower
Uhhh really good looking
sharp bluff
shocking I would say
dim flower
I like their models
sharp bluff
dim flower
I saw that bee mount
sharp bluff
I could also say paladin's is nothing special
dim flower
I need it
Lmao
Shaman’s was the coolest imo
And Priest
But Druid’s was overall the best
Two person mount
sharp bluff
But ya 4 of the classes just got reskins mostly (Warrior, DK, Pally, Lock)
if you add the new bat thing that would be 5 (DH)
Ya, the druids, shamans, and hunters, at least imo, got the best ones ( I am counting hunters since you can make it seem like you are just hoping on your pet)
though the Monk, Rogue, and Priest all have decent ones
Mage one is ok, but compared to most of the others kinda bland
dense plover
lol
monk one is shit af
its an old tiger from mop
all of the other mounts at least use new models
misty blaze
i wanna see a mount that can carry 5+ people
dense plover
monk is literally the only one that uses a 6 year old model
hollow dock
so the Hive Mind?
atomic thistle
The monk one actually looks good, it's the only classmount I use...I hate the added class specific stuff on most of them. Why is there a throne and coffin on the dk mount?
dense plover
because its a DK mount
i main monk
hate the mount
why couldnt they make a new model?
why did they reuse the old tiger from mop?
it LOOKs old
atomic thistle
I like it, even if it looks old...I boosted a monk partially because of it
Some of the new models they made don't work for me, I don't particularly like the priest/druid mounts. I like the owl glyph though
sour obsidian
Doesn’t the mage one use a 6 year old model? If you even consider the red flying cloud a model... 🤔
atomic thistle
Yeah mages got screwed...
hollow dock
Mages get a full new mount what
When did that cloud have arcane runes and symbols all over it and have frost/fire trails?
The monks mount legitimately uses an armored tiger from Pandaria. Every other mount at least gets dome form of an upgrade in some capacity to its model to make it feel more unique.
sour obsidian
Still the same model, even if they add glowy stuff to it 
hollow dock
The cloud looks nothing like the fidget spinner that is the Mage mount
atomic thistle
I like the mage mount too, but it doesn't feel new to me...kinda like the pally/warlock mounts
sour obsidian
Swapping between the two on my mage...same exact thing except crystals in the shape of a triangle
Difference of opinion I suppose
dense plover
the mage mount is brand new
its a model from the ground up
its based on an old model
but its a brand new model
atomic thistle
I don't play horde but really like the new clefthoof model that was linked, I'm super jealous
sour obsidian
The new Viscious saddle mount? It looks pretty cool
hollow dock
The mount is the exact same thing except for its model. 🤔
meager warren
what's the mag'har class mount
hollow dock
I guess sabers and horses are the same since I sit in em the same way
atomic thistle
I like the barbed wire? Like the elephaunts from lotr
hollow dock
We dont know what the mag'har racial mpunt is yet. I assume it'll be a wolf or clefthoof.
dense plover
no, its literally the same model as the one from warlords
its a wolf
the wolf is tagged as the racial mount
sour obsidian
The Mag'har wolf is the racial mount
hollow dock
Oh neat.
atomic thistle
Like the frostwolf mount?
rich apex
It's a wolf, it's somewhere on Wowhead
dense plover
sabers and horses dont even share a skeleton vris
the clefthoof mount from warlords makes sense
it doesnt bother me
im just stating a fact
hollow dock
Apparently cuz ya sit on em the same way theyre the same mount.
tulip sun
Wolf is racial
dense plover
what makes them the same is them literally being the same
hollow dock
Thats the logic applied to the mage and cloud.
tulip sun
Clefthoof vicious
dense plover
im not agreeing with that logic
those share skeletons
its different
its okay for things to share skeletons
model sharing is lame
but for non-unique mounts, its fine
hollow dock
But we're not saying the skeletons. We're talking the mounts themselves. Yang says the the same mount except for the added crystals.
hollow dock
Thats what I was making fun of.
dense plover
why to me though?
hollow dock
Not to you specifically.
sour obsidian
In my opinion, that's what it looks like. Extra glowy stuff. Even if they built it from the ground up, or redesigned it, still think its bad. But like I said, just my opinion.
hollow dock
If you think its a bad mount thats all fine and dandy. I dont remember that even coming up, just that you claimed a cloud is the same as a fidget spinner.
dense plover
models arent opinions
it can look the same to you
but factually, the mage discs are completely new models inspired by the old dalaran disc npc mount
you can dislike a mount, thats fine
calling it the same model is factually incorrect
uncut vault
Fidget spinner > all other inferior mounts
sour obsidian
Looking at images from an aerial PoV, I now see what you mean. Never saw the divisions in the disc with my toon always in the way
uncut vault
The questline was all about getting all three pieces lol
sour obsidian
Tbh...I wasnt paying attention to the three pieces part, just wanted it for my mount counter...
tulip torrent
can you paste the quest for this mount you are talking about ?
dense plover
its a class mount
atomic thistle
I really liked the quest for the DK mount, it's a shame I don't like the models
hollow dock
its the mage mount
tulip torrent
oh
i saw quest and mount in a sentence and i didnt read the rest
i thought there is a quest with reward mount in bfa
:/
atomic thistle
The quest for the warrior mount was... lazy
hollow dock
I feel like all the work went into the HUnter and DK ones.
atomic thistle
Was there a mention of the dks/red dragons getting back together in bfa?
tulip torrent
the hunter pet was easy
hollow dock
Yea. Essentially there was a DK who wanted to copy you
and you gotta go stop em
and depending on how you handled your own quest the dragons treat you differently.
hollow dock
The dragon you save thanks you for saving her life and for the restraint you showed getting the information.
atomic thistle
Maybe their dragon looks better...
hollow dock
If you didn't kill any of em
If you happened to kill em all then she screams at you to leave for what you've done.
tulip torrent
there is a youtube video about the dk quest chain
hollow dock
there's youtube videos about each one arg.
atomic thistle
I didn't kill anything, I think
hollow dock
Yea?
The Lich King even tells ya
"kill them all or let them live. These are the last reds that will ever have been born. the choice is yours"
atomic thistle
Except for vaelstraz, the red dragons were pretty okay and it wasnt his fault
meager warren
The New Lich King should help us bring down Sylvanas in Wrath 2.0
hollow dock
The reds in general are the good guys.
atomic thistle
I really want one of her sisters or both to take her down a peg
meager warren
something like...
"Let's go meet Sylvanas to make her think we're trying to help her but then kill her 'cause we're all as insane as she is and we're so much better than she is despite"
though if that happens, it'd be like Batman and Joker and Sylvanas is probably not going to die because well, ya know
atomic thistle
No the horde only sacrifices trolls for the troll throne
meager warren
?
tulip torrent
its very interesting how batman joker and sylvanas end up in the same sentence
terse patrol
I kinda think Bolvar’s using Sylvanas but ye.
meager warren
using her for cannon fodder?
hollow dock
How do you get to that one Honk?
terse patrol
sec
uncut vault
They set him up as wary and opposed to her in Chronicles, not controlling her
hollow dock
remember Port
meager warren
he doesn't need to be controlling her to be using her
meager warren
they retcon a lot of stuff in chronicles tho, right?
sharp bluff
@meager warren yes, basically if you kill all the dragons in the red sanctum LK says you are as cold hearted as he is
hollow dock
they still haven't fully retconned anything in them
sharp bluff
complements you
meager warren
fully implies they has
sharp bluff
he does not control her, since he has to raise them again to control them (that is why he does not control the player or that Belf guy we save)
meager warren
i would kill all the dragons if i were pro-sylvanas but considering she does stuff like that all the time, nah
sharp bluff
the horsemen are totally under his control though
hollow dock
absolutely.
And we are too if Arthas is to be believed.
We think ourselves free, but when he called; we answered.
sharp bluff
ghost arthas chats?
I didn't main frost
I really should try frost out since it is the end of the xpac though
terse patrol
Alright, so we start with the presumption that the new Lich King (Bolvar) is a servant or ally of Yogg Saron. We’re uncertain what happened between his “death”, his torture in Icecrown, and his crowning. But we know Yogg’s theme plays when he’s crowned. Yogg himself alludes to Terenas’ line: There must always be a Lich King. Second: Sylvanas kills herself by falling on a spike of Saronite, and sees a vision of hell. She’s then raised by the Val’kyr, who suddenly are her best buddies. Third: It’s in Bolvar’s interest to keep the public of Azeroth from knowing the Lich King still exists. Fourth: Needing to rebuild an army, he uses the Val’kyr to do so, under the guise of creating an army for Sylvanas. Sylvanas is none the wiser.
sharp bluff
I know I missed some lore from Arthas talking to me
meager warren
and when we're called by our faction leaders, we answer that as well.
we're definitely not free because we rely on warcraft govts to tell us we're free
hollow dock
First sentence ya lost me
meager warren
Bolvar is a servant of Yog?
terse patrol
I think so.
sharp bluff
I see one problem with that though
sharp bluff
if LK is a servant of the old gods, all DK's are also, we use his blood for our armor
sharp bluff
We should be hearing his voice and such
tulip torrent
LK is not servant of anyone
hollow dock
That's why we dont actually get influenced by the Old Gods
tulip torrent
he was just corrupted by the sword
hollow dock
that's why there are no whispers in Icecrown
terse patrol
We’ll see.
hollow dock
Refining saronite and the fact that we're undead is why we just aren't affected by Yogg or any of the old gods whispers.
tulip torrent
now when i think of it
terse patrol
Bolvar isn’t undead.
tulip torrent
i think that the lk sword talked to him
hollow dock
Bolvar is certainly undead
frigid umbra
Lk is not a servant of the old gods... he was a servent of the legion
terse patrol
He isn’t undead in the Scourge sense.
hollow dock
Undead is undead. He wasn't risen by a necromancer, but at the same time
neither was arthas
and he is undead.
terse patrol
He “lives” due to Alextrasza’s flame.
hollow dock
He lives due to red dragon flame. Not alex specifically.
terse patrol
Which may have meant he’s open to corruption still.
frigid umbra
Bolvar died at the wrarh gate so he is undead
tulip torrent
now that the aspects lost their power
hollow dock
He died to the blight
tulip torrent
maybe he will become permanently dead
hollow dock
but the flames of the reds 'healed' his dead self
So he is in every traditional sense of the word: Undead.
Resurrected improperly is what we call it over in Dungeons and Dragons
terse patrol
Discounting the fact that Yogg’s theme plays is unwise imo
The crowning of the new Lich King benefits them, as Arthas was against Yogg.
frigid umbra
Not really... the dragon flames neutralized the plague... arthas resurected him but was not fully under his control.. thats why he was torchuring him
hollow dock
Bolvar tells you how he still 'lives'
on the throne. The dragons flame is what brought him back.
frigid umbra
When?
terse patrol
He even says “the dragons flame sealed his fate.”
frigid umbra
How is that him being heaked? That... his body is distroyed by the flame
hollow dock
Improperly locking his soul to his burnt and charred corpse. Arthas saw he was still 'living' but not dead.
frigid umbra
Healed*
hollow dock
Do you not know the properties of red dragon fire?
Red dragons are the guardians of life. the custodians of it. Their fire heals the land while burning away corruption.
sharp bluff
burninating
frigid umbra
Sure dude... but he was not healded... you can planly see in his body. If it really healed him, he would look normal
hollow dock
That's the thing Alex
frigid umbra
At least from my point of view...
hollow dock
he was filled and infected with Corruption
the Blight
which the dragons were burning away
His body being covered and dosed in Blight makes the fire destroy it, but leave behind whatever wasn't Blighted
hence his burned corpse
The fire kept him alive
meager warren
Bolvar isn't undead wat
hollow dock
He died to Blight edgy, dragons fire brought him back
sharp bluff
basically Bolv is in a sense 'Deadpool', the red flame (regen) keeps the plague (cancer) in check
terse patrol
He’s a weird dragon fire undead.
sharp bluff
And he hears voices
hollow dock
Oh OK
terse patrol
Oh yeah, there’s also that
meager warren
i feel like him being undead is kinda a job requirement
terse patrol
Bolvar is getting visions in Legion
frigid umbra
I guess the removed the plague from his body... but he was already dead by the time the dragona got there... you see him giving his last breath at the wrath gate cinematix
terse patrol
@hollow dock
hollow dock
Yup you do.
frigid umbra
So arthas is the one that resurected him really
hollow dock
But this is where i call it 'Improper resurrection'
frigid umbra
Not the reds
hollow dock
The red dragons fire brought him back and sustained him
terse patrol
So, I’m pretty sure Yoggy boy is helping Bolvar out.
sharp bluff
It is, the crown takes your life (sorta), see Arthas
hollow dock
And what visions Honk?
frigid umbra
Yogg is dead
hollow dock
Yogg isnt dead
dense plover
yogg isnt dead
hollow dock
The only old god that is dead is Y'shaarj
dense plover
he was pushed back
frigid umbra
Only nzoth is still alive
dense plover
no
hollow dock
That is false
dense plover
thats factually incorrect
hollow dock
C'thun and Yogg are still alive
dense plover
^
hollow dock
There is no way we can kill an Old God in the full flesh
hollow dock
We've only 'killed' Y'shaarj because of 1 thing and 1 thing only.
frigid umbra
Did you read cronicles? Cuz i just finished it and it said killed
hollow dock
We've re-sealed and pushed them back but they are not dead.
dense plover
it says defeated
frigid umbra
Or distroyes... both cthun and yogg
dense plover
it specifically uses the word defeated
hollow dock
Defeated.
dense plover
defeated isnt dead
hollow dock
Defeated is not dead or destroyed
dense plover
chronicles one made that very clear
hollow dock
We've defeated the horde multiple times and they the alliance
does not mean either side is gone
sharp bluff
I just thought of something, in the last chronicles about the 'fifth' old god, what if that fifth one (since it was on the border ABOVE) the rest, what if another will fall? waking them up?
frigid umbra
Ok.. i need to recheck that then
dense plover
there is no fifth old god
hollow dock
^
hollow dock
There's only 4
dense plover
chronicles one made it clear there are only 4
hollow dock
Only 4 landed. Only 4 are ever present. The titans fine combed Azeroth when they arrived. There's only 4.
dense plover
one was killed
sharp bluff
4 on Az
hollow dock
^
sharp bluff
what if one more is on its way? that would be a nice set up for an old god xpac
dense plover
nope
hollow dock
If there are -more- coming
dense plover
one landing would wipe out all life
hollow dock
yea
dense plover
theyre the size of a continent
something that big would wipe all life from the surface
hollow dock
Unless, peach
what if they're like actual parasites
Small.
Like maybe no bigger than a small rock.
dense plover
also, all the old gods from volume one were created during the initial conflict of light and dark
tropic trail
what makes you think they're the size of continents?
hollow dock
Or maybe even attached to a rock
dense plover
their current size
hollow dock
Yogg-saron is canonically the size of Northrend
hollow dock
Y'shaarj's wound that he left made the Well of Eternity.
dense plover
we actually dont know for any other than those two
sharp bluff
their current size is big, it was never said how big they were when they landed, or have they?
dense plover
no
tropic trail
The well was not the size of a continent tho
hollow dock
Which you can judge to be only slightly smaller than the actual Well
hollow dock
Personally i like teasing the idea that they land on rocks. Liek actual alien parasites
dense plover
old gods canonically are only marked as being sent out right after the formation of the twisting nether
if they are sending them
they wouldnt be a threat for thousands of years
after landing
hollow dock
That is true.
hollow dock
I really think it was just Blizz going 'Rule of Cool'
sharp bluff
but sounds fun
sharp bluff
well they will lol
dense plover
then have a full blown old god expac
uncut vault
I mean I think the fifth thing on the outline thing is the tidemother, looks exactly like her temple
dense plover
similar to WoD-->Legion
uncut vault
Four eyed tentacle beast
hollow dock
I think its honestly an Ancient One.
hollow dock
Maybe like an ancient Kthraxxi that gained so much mass it became a blob?
dense plover
they kind of do that
the big one in zandalar
prior to it being an island and all that
the one that i think became mythraxx now that it is named
and that we will fight in the first raid
hollow dock
Mhmm that could definately be a possibility.
dense plover
i mean
grand grail
i hope we get to rebuild darkshore and theldrassil near the end o fthe xpac
grand grail
seeing darkshore all ruined like that is breaking my heart 😢
dense plover
i hope they bring back gilneas
hollow dock
Maybe that's what the Tide Mother is then, a very ancient Kthraxxi that's just stuck down in the ocean. Since they can breath underwater and do have abilities similar to the Old Gods.
grand grail
gilneas is defeintly gonna be a new hub but i wouldnt be surprised if a new world tree gets planted where teldrassil was at the end of the xpac
grand grail
and then when they redo the world cat style a small barebones vilalge is set up outside
hollow dock
I dont think we're planting any more World Trees
dense plover
the dragons dont have power
hollow dock
Us doing that causes a lot of issues
dense plover
we cant plant one
hollow dock
and yea. No titan blessings
dense plover
if we do that
grand grail
most likely the forsaken is gonna take theldrassil
dense plover
old god shit
grand grail
and its gonna replace undercity
dense plover
each faction gets a new capital on their island
grand grail
yeah the forsaken might start a city on the stump
dense plover
no way
grand grail
as a f-u to the night elfs
dense plover
nope
hollow dock
Forsaken aren't that petty tho
dense plover
^
sharp bluff
I would be interested if they rebuilt Stormgarde, Undercity, and Gilneas in all honesty
Since we will NEVER see Exodar and Silvermoon rebuilt EVER
dense plover
sadly
hollow dock
Like maybe
grand grail
I wonder where the forsaken are gonna take them
dense plover
well, stromgarde is getting rebuilt
grand grail
hopefully they all just launch themselves into space
dense plover
undercity will probably be left there for at least a while
hollow dock
Blight and all that jazz
sharp bluff
did they blight just the undercity part? or the topside also?
grand grail
theyre defiently gonna do both
grand grail
if you dont do the top then the farmland wont be blighted
uncut vault
Blight doesn’t fade, it is cleansed, we just never got on screen follow up to varian wanting to cleanse Gilneas after SoO
tropic trail
Wasn't gilnease blight free back in cata tho also? because don't the rogues go there for a legendary, and they seemed fine
dense plover
destroy the only nearby fortification
sharp bluff
Well I was wondering, it would make sense to blight undercity, but not really much up top worth blighting since we have troops topside
and we know Suarfang is up in the topside
sharp bluff
got you
dense plover
to have time to evacuate all of the citizens
grand grail
Theyre gonna blight up top since its a retreat
I wonder if the horde actually burnt teldrassil
tropic trail
They're attacking it, so that seems likely
grand grail
i hope it turns out they did since it makes the politics seem complicated and realistic
rather then just the old gods mind controlling people
grand grail
What even sparks them to attack the night elfs like that
sharp bluff
You thought it was the horde that burnt your tree, but it was I Graymane the whole time!
grand grail
we had a mildy stable peace
tropic trail
They want control of kalimdor so they can live in peace
dense plover
if the forsaken council burns the tree, and the horde has to take the blame?
sharp bluff
It was probably the horde sadly that burnt it
grand grail
greymane is chill he wouldnt do that
dense plover
there has been no stable peace
tropic trail
and then they seek out a navy to wage war
atomic thistle
If there's a plague bat from undecity, will we get a burnt nightsabre, or hipposgyph from teladrassil?
sharp bluff
Greymane is far from chill, but I know he wouldn't burn the tree
grand grail
I honestly agree with him on the forsaken
dense plover
the factions dont trust each other with azerite
uncut vault
The “we want peace on Kalimdor” line was removed
grand grail
greymane would probably just fake an attack on stormwind
sharp bluff
@atomic thistle hippo, both sides get flying one i think
grand grail
he dosent have the ruthlessness to kill thousands of innocents
tropic trail
I doubt greymane would cause harm to the alliance to trick them to go to war
grand grail
Theres probably gonna be a civil war brewing
since the xpac is probably gonna end with forced peace with the horde and greymane isnt gonna like slyv getting off scot free
tropic trail
I really don't like greymane, but I just don't see him doing something dumb like that
grand grail
I kinda hope anduin dies and we get king greymane tbh
sharp bluff
no one really likes him, but he is in the limelight, so we have no choice XD
uncut vault
Anduin and velen are the two characters that cannot die
tropic trail
unless the same thing happens to him that happened to khadgar and he's magically aged
sharp bluff
Anduin wont die lol, Greymane might though since we have his daughter still
atomic thistle
Maybe queen tess
sharp bluff
Anduin X Tess I could see
tropic trail
I can see greymane and sylv killing eachother
grand grail
I think greymanes hatred of the forsaken is gonna consume him
and hes eventually gonna end up a villian
sharp bluff
Graymane kills Sylv and himself, and the last Valks give themselves up to save her, dooming the forsaken, I CAN see Blizz maybe doing that
she gets depressed after that
atomic thistle
I'd rather they kill off tyrande after they burn her tree
sharp bluff
That would be a good plot, no more Valk
grand grail
I dont think slyv is gonna die any time soon
tropic trail
TBH tho, I think sylv would win in a real fight against greymane
grand grail
but she is probably gonna end up stepping down as warchief
sharp bluff
She won't, at least not a final time
grand grail
Shes gonna end up a super controvesail figure in the horde and to avoid civil war she will step down and baine or saurfang will be warchief
(or maye gallywix )
sharp bluff
Baine won't be warchief, he can't be
uncut vault
Or they go the reasonable route and just have a council of leaders like the alliance used to
grand grail
A council would be best
tropic trail
a "war council" if you will
grand grail
i think eventually the horde and alliance are gonna merge
sharp bluff
@uncut vault you mean before the humans ruled them all?
grand grail
like not anytime soon
rich apex
It'd probably be a logistical nigthmare
atomic thistle
World of friendcraft?
rich apex
(tho it would solve the apparent issue of Horde bias in pro raiding)
tropic trail
I can see crossfaction grouping eventually tho
rich apex
I mean
sharp bluff
But Hype so did the fat goblin, doesn't mean he will be warcheif lol
rich apex
Considering there's an apocalyptic level event in Azeroth every year
Literally every year
tulip sun
Just want to say something to someone earlier that mentioned the valks
rich apex
Its' make friends or die
grand grail
they might have something like the factions merge but then the people who dont like the decison split off into their own faction
sharp bluff
it will take all that she has left to save her next time @grand grail
takes more each time
grand grail
If she dies its probabl gonna be in a litch king xpac
sharp bluff
she is to powerful for only one to save her anymore
last time it took multiple Valks
grand grail
I think when we kill bolvar we are gonna have to destroy the crown or else the forsaken are gonna try use it "BECAUSE MUH RACE IS DYING 😭"
uncut vault
It took multiple Valkyr in silverpine because they wanted to kill all three
tulip sun
I mean, thats a good reason
sharp bluff
CAn't destroy the crown though? I don't think at least
grand grail
They shouldnt have even existed
and being a forsaken is horrible
yet they willingly force the fate onto others
tulip sun
That doesn't mean lets let them slowly die off
and some people would LOVE to be alive again
grand grail
Well we shuldnt force unwilling people to become undead monsters
tulip sun
If they don't want it they can kill themselves
or get someone to kill them
easy enough
sharp bluff
There was at least one case of a forsaken being returned to life if I remember correctly?
rich apex
Unless Sylvanas's vision of a nightmarish hell was only induced by the Old Gods because she was impaled on saronite 🤔
tropic trail
so even if you did kill yourself, you're still worse off
grand grail
dosent it also make you a psychopath?
misty blaze
i dont want tyrande or sylvanas or jaina to die they are all super sexy lore characters
sharp bluff
and the fosaken priests that still use the light I think are slowly being healed? if i remember right they start to regain their 5 senses
but go crazy because of it
rich apex
They gain their -senses-
sharp bluff
so idk
rich apex
Including the sense of 'maggot crawling through your flesh'