hypothetically
#beta-ptr-spoilers
stoic vortex
Sylvanas IS a fucking racist fuck @dense plover
meager warren
she's in the horde
hollow dock
destrying the weapon
dense plover
she is pro-forsaken
hollow dock
and leaving
meager warren
she hates humans
dense plover
who goes somewhere, destroys a weapon, then leaves?
hollow dock
WE DO
meager warren
war is p
meager warren
ointless
stoic vortex
Sylv hates humans. She hates Nelves. She hates anyone who wants to get in the way of her staying out of hell.
hollow dock
WE THE HEROES. SPECIFICALLY GO TO DESTROY A WEAPON TO LET CHROMIE RUN
karmic ridge
look i was a sylvanas apologist before this in that a lot of the evil shit she did was at least understandable in a 'the forsaken must survive at all costs' kinda way but she's 100% dumping her shades of grey here
hollow dock
WE DONT WIPE OUT ANDORHAL TO DESTORY THAT WEAPON
dense plover
im not going to argue here anymore. literally from the limited stuff we know, it is possible that the townsfolk have mobilized and attacked the horde base in stormsong, and this is retaliation
we dont know
we have no horde perspective of that zone's story
we have one note
hollow dock
How does that justify anything she's doing
meager warren
what is retaliation, peach?
hollow dock
How does that justify the slaughter of children?
What did the children call her bad names?
karmic ridge
i would have preferred if the horde just revelled in its villainy from the beginning instead of gaslighting us into thinking that we might actually be good people before the next random guy with a ! makes us warcrime
dense plover
maybe they slaughtered children
you do know the kul tirans killed orc children in the third war right?
theyre awful
the horde literally hates their guts
karmic ridge
sylvanas is not an orc
dense plover
they took orc slaves
karmic ridge
she doesn't get to inherit the orc's grudges for kul'tiras
dense plover
kul tiras didnt help against the scourge
hollow dock
Sylv isnt an orc. So that excuse doesn't really work.
dense plover
book
meager warren
we're not even talking about Horde vs Alliance here.
We're saying it's not okay to kill children
hollow dock
She orders them all to slaughter everyone
dense plover
in the book
hollow dock
for no reason
dense plover
she needs the orcs to like her
fighting your mortal enemies
people who tried to wipe you out?
meager warren
Kul'tiras helped against the orcs though
hollow dock
The orcs mortal enemy is the alliance. Kul'tiras is not apart of the alliance
dense plover
thats one way to get orcs to help you
kul tiras chased the orcs across the great sea
karmic ridge
pretty sure enough orcs just like fighting and strong leaders and honorable combat that she's winning people over anyway probably
dense plover
and then daelinn tried to wipe them out
hollow dock
and Orcs wiped out Daelin
karmic ridge
orcs are, to be frank
dense plover
yeah
hollow dock
so what more hate is there to be had
dense plover
but you dont think they still hold a grudge?
karmic ridge
with zero complaint
hollow dock
So wait
dense plover
the kul tirans took orc slaves
karmic ridge
it's kind of embarassing byn ow
hollow dock
but we are allowed to assume nothing changed for the orcs
hollow dock
Just to be clear
karmic ridge
the orcs frustrate me
dense plover
but if my son was killed 8 years ago or whatever, i would still be fucking pissed
hollow dock
because this is starting to sound Hypocritical
dense plover
you dont get over the death of a child
karmic ridge
i thought we killed all the orc murderboner racist types that'd listen to an order to purge civilians in SoO
so i'm annoyed that sylvanas magically turned the orc rank and file evil again
meager warren
if my son was killed 8 years ago and other people lead the group that killed him, i'd request an alliance with them
because that's how defense diplomacy works
stoic vortex
Yes it is Peach
karmic ridge
look kul'tiras was incredibly minor in the grnad scheme of things
there's not some great orcish grudge against kul'tiras
dense plover
you are 100% incorrect about how a dying child affects you
stoic vortex
It is how it works peach
dense plover
you dont give a fuck about diplomacy
karmic ridge
especially since we totally stomped them and made their leader's daughter murder him
i mean you can't have more total revenge than that
meager warren
yes it bloody is, peach
dense plover
you want to kill the fuckers that killed your child
hollow dock
I personally do know someone who lost children in the holocaust. She is still angry at the Nazi's who killed her babies but she forgave them all the same.
stoic vortex
You're very wrong peach
dense plover
except they arent gone
only daelinn is gone
plenty of kul tirans returned to KT
plenty didnt follow across the sea and killed orcs near KT
hollow dock
and so what. You just said that losing a child changes you.
karmic ridge
you're REALLY reaching here for some imaginary KT orc holocaust
meager warren
i'm not going to be bigotted to them for something that happened in the past.
even if the same people lead them, no i wouldn't be pissed because forgiveness is a thing
dense plover
its not that bad
hollow dock
but
dense plover
but it did happen
hollow dock
as long as its a long period of time?
stoic vortex
Peach, that was like 60 years ago. Everyone is probably retired from then
karmic ridge
the horde dislikes them
dense plover
third war was not 60 years ago
karmic ridge
but not so much that this group of orcs that JUST DEALT with garrosh
and was lead by give peace a chance thrall for years
hollow dock
the first war was like. 20 years ago by now. third war was like. 7 or 8.
dense plover
^
karmic ridge
that you'd murder a town entirely to get, i don't know, good PR with orcs?
that's the dumbest reason to murder a town ever
dense plover
no
stoic vortex
First war was 38 years ago exactly
meager warren
you're a dumbass, peach
karmic ridge
it's 100% not what happened
dense plover
warcraft 3 was when the kul tirans fought the orcs
hollow dock
Is that to the accordance of the new wow timeline Lilith?
dense plover
not warcraft 1
stoic vortex
Yes @hollow dock
hollow dock
its not year 38
karmic ridge
this is the weirdest shit because im usually on team sylvanas
meager warren
i'm on team Taran Zhu usually
karmic ridge
oh same
dense plover
look
hollow dock
15 years haven't passed since WC3. and WC3 ended sorta at year 15/16.
karmic ridge
but usually 'the sylvanas and the undead are all 100% pure evil and should be exterminated' camp was massively irritating for years
karmic ridge
but i mean we're approaching the point where even i have to concede the point
stoic vortex
I'm on team get the fuck along you dumb pieces of shit usually
dense plover
i dont mind being the villain
i just want to know why she is doing it
it isnt in character for her to just do something to kill people
karmic ridge
dude, sylvanas has stated many times
dense plover
she has to have an ulterior motive
meager warren
that's team Taran Zhu/ Shado-Pan, lilith
hollow dock
To raise more forsaken, to gain whatever resources she can and deny the alliance whatever she can.
hollow dock
Do you need more?
karmic ridge
this is her goal
dense plover
yes i need more. i need the horde questline in that zone
where we get orders
that are above the orders peons are given
hollow dock
they are at war. there doesn't need to be more reason than what I've already stated
dense plover
there doesnt HAVE to be
stoic vortex
@meager warren it's also team Draenei/non-Forsaken Elves
dense plover
but that doesnt mean there isnt
meager warren
and how would the horde questline make it ANY better, whatsoever?
hollow dock
yesterday when we debated this
karmic ridge
a fresh, undefended continent full of forsaken that just don't know it yet
karmic ridge
so she has three goals
stone raven
dense plover
^
karmic ridge
- win the war, destroy the alliance 2. get azerite and 3. raise forsaken
karmic ridge
look this isn't going to be a broken shore situation
stoic vortex
Just block Peach.
karmic ridge
sylvanas was 100% in the right there
dense plover
vris and i argue like this all the time lilith
stone raven
Look, I get that you all have sides, and opinions. And speculations, but this is the second day in a row that you guys have gone at it in BFA spoilers, and I'm just asking you guys to be civil or change the subject. Please.
hollow dock
We're not stating whether or not we like or dislike the story
dense plover
we dont block each other
meager warren
yet you blocked me
hollow dock
I personally LOVE this new outlook on Sylvanas being a true evil character she has meant to be
dense plover
im not against it either
but she isnt suddenly an idiot
she plans ahead
very far ahead
hollow dock
That's debatable
karmic ridge
this isn't an idiot move
dense plover
she has plans for plans
hollow dock
considering what they did to the Night elves
karmic ridge
i mean you're imagining that she needs more complex reasons than
hollow dock
Theyre now grossly incompetent
dense plover
we have a piece of a short story
stoic vortex
Sylv burning the tree was intentional genocide.
karmic ridge
'by killing this town i turn enemies into allies and instantly massively expand my army'
this is like
dense plover
and datamined dialogue and stuff
karmic ridge
an incredibly advantageous move if you're willing to raise the dead
dense plover
we are missing so much
karmic ridge
necromancers kill people and raise zombies
why would you need more than this as a reason
dense plover
we dont even know if sylvanas actually burns the tree lilith
hollow dock
because peach is a horde player
karmic ridge
i'm a horde player
hollow dock
so he wants to know why his horde is being evil
hollow dock
instead of just accepting theyre evil and moving on.
hollow dock
The alliance and horde are at war peach.
meager warren
i'm a horde player too but i also hate that Sylvanas was turned into a flat villain
karmic ridge
i want to know why my horde is just rolling over for sylvanas
dense plover
we have only the alliance side of the story
karmic ridge
i liked ambiguous, ruthless, machiavellian sylvanas
ruby star
I'm pro Alliance, and Will always view Horde as evil xD (Alliance Pride)
dense plover
and bits and pieces of the war campaign
dense plover
we dont fully know what happens at siege of lordaeron or at the tree
hollow dock
Now she doesn't have to tip toe Wolp
dense plover
we know so little
hollow dock
she's just in charge
meager warren
who gives a shit about the horde side when fucking children are being killed for no reason?
hollow dock
she can do whatever
dense plover
i just want to know what happens
and i dislike the conclusions being drawn from having maybe 20% of the full story
maybe
stoic vortex
@rapid python seeing as you are literally god when it comes to Warcraft, what's your side on this?
dense plover
we probably have less
ruby star
If only the Alliance could take Silvermoon as well that would be pretty dank
dense plover
dont ping ornyx
hollow dock
If its only the alliance side of the story Peach
dense plover
we dont ping ornyx
karmic ridge
like i honestly think that everyone overreacts about sylvanas's plague
dense plover
its rude
hollow dock
then its a flat 50% of the story
dense plover
that quest is
karmic ridge
but this is a world where we all set people on fire
and steal their souls
casually
hollow dock
then for this one particular area
we know 50% of whats happening
Which is the only area we're caring about atm
meager warren
everyone ping peach over and over
dense plover
but we still dont even know why the horde built this big base in stormsong
meager warren
@dense plover
dense plover
why not in drustvar
karmic ridge
we know that the horde starts the war with the alliance
dense plover
edgy
karmic ridge
we know that the horde wants to win the war with the alliance
dense plover
pings dont work when blocked
meager warren
no shit
dense plover
yeah
karmic ridge
we know that kul'tiras and zandalar are the focus points of this war
dense plover
we know general thoughts
hollow dock
Probably because the Drustvar would prove to costly to horde supplies and just muscling in on territory that's already pretty conflict free which also gets you more forsaken is much better
karmic ridge
therefore the horde wants to take over kul tiras
or destroyer it
not that hard to figure out
dense plover
except horde does go to drustvar
vris
just like alliance goes to nazmir
and zuldazar
stoic vortex
@dense plover
karmic ridge
so obviously having a massive horde invasion of a town
dense plover
you go to all the zones as part of the war campaign
hollow dock
they do but for what reason they are going to Drustvar? pretty unclear on that as far as I know
karmic ridge
is just part of the bigger goal of.. conquering KT
i don't know what's so hard to accept about this peach
dense plover
if you are going to ping me pointlessly @stoic vortex you will be blocked
hollow dock
but since theyre building a base on Stormsong. and assaulting alliance.
dense plover
also mods might ban for that
because its harrassment for sure
yes
it is part of the war campaign vris
hollow dock
@hollow dock OH YEA WELL I'LL PING MYSELF
meager warren
really, peach?
meager warren
who's the rude one now
hollow dock
can't ban me for harrassing myself
dense plover
she talks about wanting to just conquer kalimdor
and have the alliance stay on the EK
so what changes
or does it not matter
or is the writing just bad again
stoic vortex
Can't really ban people for pinging someone once, Peach. Doesn't really constitute anything bannable anywhere
dense plover
im saying if you continue
you did it just to do it
its clearly pointless
which means you did it to harass me
hollow dock
@stoic vortex exactly
karmic ridge
it was 1 ping in a conversation we were already having
dense plover
yes
karmic ridge
it's not like he was spamming it
dense plover
which is why i said if they did
hollow dock
@hollow dock yea like if I spam ping myself can I be banned for harassing myself?
dense plover
back to the conversation at hand?
meager warren
really?
stoic vortex
Peach just keeps digging itself into a deeper hole at this point
dense plover
the kill people in brennadam
what next?
what is the goal of being their?
yes they raise more forsaken
but what else?
meager warren
slaughtering innocent children, maybe?
dense plover
the rest of the horde has to have a reason to be there too though
orcs might follow
but blood elves and trolls will want other reasons outside more forsaken and resources
hollow dock
The forsaken are the main driving force for the horde in the game I bet
dense plover
there has to be something there
hollow dock
Elves and Trolls dont have to follow.
dense plover
but they arent trying to conquer
karmic ridge
this is a given
dense plover
they are killing
hollow dock
Look at Garrosh and his rampage into Ashenvale
dense plover
they arent trying to claim the town
karmic ridge
you conquer first by killing the enemies
meager warren
^
hollow dock
only goblinsand orcs because those are the ones that care about it
karmic ridge
orcs and undead don't want human slaves
dense plover
yeah there are a lot of goblins
karmic ridge
esp whe nyou can kill them and get willing friends
dense plover
do you think maybe the horde knows about some azerite there?
hypothetically
it would just help explain the heavy goblin prescence
hollow dock
maybe they do suspect there could be Azerite there. Maybe there isn't any and the goblins are just working on the forsaken siege weapons
who knows
dense plover
yeah
thats my point
we dont know
i want to know before i draw story conclusions
hollow dock
I mean
meager warren
your point is it's okay to kill children
hollow dock
theyre killing a town
dense plover
and i think you should wait before drawing conclusions too
hollow dock
muscling in on a territory
dense plover
they are wiping out a town
hollow dock
its pretty clear what's happening
hollow dock
the horde does
dense plover
but she is also sylvanas
hollow dock
that's specufucally why she attacks and destroys Teldrassil.
meager warren
yes she does.
when did she ever kill for anything else?
dense plover
we dont know she burns it down
there are bombs
but we dont know she burns it
she probably does
but we still dont know
meager warren
we know the Alliance attacked Undercity.
So it follows that the Horde attacked Teldrassil
the funny thing is, you are drawing conclusions, peach
dense plover
no im not
hollow dock
He's stating possibilities
that's different than say what I am doing
which is just writing off the horde
dense plover
we know for a fact the alliance retaliates by attacking lordaeron
^^
thank you vris
meager warren
it wouldn't be retaliating if the Horde didn't burn down Teldrassil 🤔
hollow dock
Now to be fair
while I do strongly believe it is the horde doing it
it could still be a number of other factions doing it
and just framing the horde for it
dense plover
^
hollow dock
that's not as likely thanks to the Horde attacking Darkshore, but the possibility still exists.
dense plover
the new forsaken council still seems like a good suspect
the horde may plan to attack and take the tree
but the council burns the tree
hollow dock
they may have planned to never even take the tree
hollow dock
and just put a bloackade around it
tulip sun
Even if they don't burn it doen
Down
The horde invades to at least the shores of darkshore
hollow dock
Yes indeed.
tulip sun
So there is something to retaliate for
dense plover
somewhat
hollow dock
Which is why I say its not as likely prior to this knowledge that the horde didn't burn it down
but the possibility still exists that they didn't do it
dense plover
definitely different levels of retaliation though
hollow dock
and this is coming from a bigot against the horde
dense plover
and right now it seems like she is planning to attack the tree at least
but its very clear the bare minimum goal is to get rid of the night elves in ashenvale
which makes sense
an alliance prescence right next door it dangerous
karmic ridge
honestly if you're already going to kill all the elves
who cares about teldrassil
it's an eye sore and an abomination against nature
dense plover
its not an eye sore anymore
meager warren
oh wonderful.
Sylvanas attacking Ashenvale.
She's turning into Garrosh
karmic ridge
they should be thanking you
dense plover
it got cleaned up
karmic ridge
teldrassil is the last legacy of staghelm
dense plover
attacking ashenvale is logical to the extreme
hollow dock
because Exodar is literally right next door to Teldrassil
hollow dock
and the horde is leaving it alone
dense plover
exodar is weird
meager warren
it's not an abomination against nature.
It's beautiful.
and it's a world tree
dense plover
i think they would attack if it wasnt in the outland instance
karmic ridge
i feel like the horde has a much bigger grudge against the nelves
than the draenei
in fact they're probably a little embarassed about the draenei
hollow dock
The orcs?
Probably not
it was their glorious battle
their glorious attempt at genocide
hollow dock
That's why the horde attacked int he first place
To have their glorious battle
and to the horde, they had it
but they wanted more. they started to turn on each other. Legion unleashes them onto Azeroth
meager warren
Legion the expac or Legion the faction
dense plover
faction
hollow dock
When did the Legion expansion unleash the orcs on Azeroth?
meager warren
ok
hollow dock
Let me ask you that
dense plover
^
hollow dock
the context clues kinda indicates the Burning Legion
meager warren
not really
hollow dock
I ask you again.
When or How did the Legion expansion unleash the orcish horde onto Azeroth after wiping out hte draenei they could find?
dense plover
^
meager warren
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dense plover
read any lore edgy
meager warren
yes
karmic ridge
this is like orcs 101
dense plover
you are making yourself look bad
karmic ridge
they kill the draenei then invade azeroth
meager warren
you mean, i'm starting to look like you?
or better?
hollow dock
because of the Legion
karmic ridge
honestly it's amazing the draenei seem to have so little bad blood with the orcs
meager warren
but tbf, Vris that was pretty vague
hollow dock
I wasn't?
karmic ridge
they have a worse relationship with blood elves at first even
hollow dock
I was talking about the Orcish Horde on Dreanor
wiping out the draenei
you know that's becaus eof the Burning Legion
karmic ridge
though the liadrin faction of belves and the draenei are BFF now
meager warren
"they wanted more. they started to turn on each other"
hollow dock
Yes
because that's how the story kept going
the orcs wanted more war. more deaht. more killing.
so they started to turn on each other
That's when the legion gets the plan to unleash them on Azeroth through the dark portal
clearly Im talking about the expansion
meager warren
you said that after you said the horde attacked ashenvale.
even though the horde as a faction existed before ashenvale
hollow dock
I didn't?
[3:15 PM] Vris: Probably not [3:15 PM] Vris: it was their glorious battle [3:15 PM] Vris: their glorious attempt at genocide [3:15 PM] Wolpertinger: the draenei was not the glorious battle [3:15 PM] Wolpertinger: the humans were [3:15 PM] Vris: uh [3:15 PM] Vris: yes it was. [3:15 PM] Wolpertinger: the draenei were totally stomped [3:15 PM] Wolpertinger: there was no glorious battle [3:15 PM] Wolpertinger: it was effortless [3:15 PM] Vris: That's why the horde attacked int he first place [3:16 PM] Vris: To have their glorious battle [3:16 PM] Vris: and to the horde, they had it [3:16 PM] Vris: but they wanted more. they started to turn on each other. Legion unleashes them onto Azeroth
meager warren
meager warren
"it" refers to Ashenvale, right?
hollow dock
No
meager warren
o
hollow dock
No you completely tunneled on my words
meager warren
nvm then
hollow dock
and ignored all the words around it
[3:15 PM] Wolpertinger: the draenei was not the glorious battle [3:15 PM] Wolpertinger: the humans were
right after that last line you Screenshotted
meager warren
mb.
carry on
wild pewter
Sylvannas is worst girl.
hollow dock
In what context? The worst villain, worst warchief, worst elf, worst undead?
meager warren
second to worst warchief at least
stoic vortex
Worst girl, Worst elf, Worst undead, etc
hollow dock
Worst warchielf girl? Nah.
Worst girl? Nah.
Worst elf girl? Maybe.
Worst undead girl? Nah.
stoic vortex
I thought you hated Sylv
hollow dock
Hated her? Nah I love this new direction Blizzard is taking her
I absolutely love great female villains.
I hate it when people defend them and say they aren't villains :p
meager warren
she's not a "great" villain but she's not a bad one imo
hollow dock
I didn't say she's a great villain, I said she's a great female villain.
meager warren
what's the difference?
hollow dock
There's a much smaller pool of female villains and thus the labeling her of one is much easier to plaster 'great' onto.
stoic vortex
Are you applying a double standard?
meager warren
^
hollow dock
How is it a double standard?
meager warren
implying that "great villains" are mostly if not always males when females can be so as well
hollow dock
Because most of the great villains are male. That's not an implication, that's a fact.
meager warren
o rly
wild pewter
She is just worst girl. That's all there is to it. 😄
tropic trail
doesn't look like anyone posted this yet, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ydF8or4FTM
they don't have a random accent like void elves do
hollow dock
why would they? theyre normal dwarves. Sorta.
uncut vault
The guard ladies actually have a more natural Scottish accent and I love it
tropic trail
void elves are just blood elves that ate some void
dense plover
lol
tropic trail
blood elves didn't get a new accent when they ate fel
tropic trail
so them being in ungoro is canon then? since they were first introduced in the HS xpac
dense plover
ehhh
tropic trail
or used to be in ungoro
tropic trail
true
meager warren
who left Un'goro?
tropic trail
Tortollians first appeared in the hearthstone expansion "journey to ungoro"
so we're not sure if it's canon that they were ever in ungoro or not
since hearthstone isn't canon
plain vigil
So peach, I thought about that argument we had like months ago, about if kul tirans are french. And your rebuttal was that the suramaren are french, but they’re Italian, not french. So Kul’tiras are deff French German combo :3
dense plover
kul tirans are german
uncut vault
I mean they have straight bristolian accents on the alpha
dense plover
dazar line though
hollow dock
A british friend of mine is saying theyre properly modern biriths. not german.
dense plover
"I spent my life resisting your master only for you to bind me to his will in Death" - this is talking to Zul
from Dazar
hollow dock
Or are we talking archetecture?
hollow dock
Ah OK.
dense plover
which led to english coastal architecture
so really its kind of a moot point
they are definitely british voice and name wise
like southern, coastal town brits
seriously though
big lore point
who the hell is Zul's master?
Hakkar?
hollow dock
I place my bets on the Old Gods. My reasoning for this is him getting a vision of the Cataclysm
its never stated where he got that vision is it?
hollow dock
Let's keep the jokes at bay for now.
meager warren
that may not have been a joke
tropic trail
but it actually could be something like elune.
hollow dock
Why would Elune care for Zul whom has never shown any worship to her?
dense plover
it definitely isnt
meager warren
why do the warcraft gods do anything
dense plover
Zul is super evil
hollow dock
They protect those that worship them
Look at Bwonsamdi. He only helps because he gets tribute.
tropic trail
Maybe it's G'huun?
meager warren
someone told Vol'jin to make Sylvanas leader and she's super evil too
plain vigil
Architecture is a blend between industrial germany, and Gothic France
hollow dock
That's a good possibility.
hollow dock
Not really a relevant point at the moment Gandem.
dense plover
especially considering the klaxxi there
hollow dock
As I check it up, Zul was just given a vision of the coming cataclysm.
meager warren
🍍 🍕
hopefully the zandalari trolls like this
hollow dock
The Old Gods did share their visions with those they were recruiting in.
Pineapples and pizza? Maybe.
Does pizza even exist in WoW?
hollow dock
that is a pineapple and a pizza.
meager warren
someone just has to invent it
tropic trail
isn't there a pineapple pizza food item coming in BfA?
plain vigil
G’huun isnt an old god :3 confirmed by bliz btw
tropic trail
meager warren
yum
hollow dock
He's just an experiment, something created from the old gods to study them. Inevitably becoming an artificial old god himself.
dense plover
ah, it seems that gallywix will be coming with us to the MOTHERLODE
based on the VO
so its possible that the dungeon is going to have machines and stuff to use
lol
star trek reference from Gallywix
tropic trail
Wonder who will be assisting the alliance in the dungeon then
hollow dock
I hope its Mekkatorque
tropic trail
would love to see mekkatorque play a part, especially since the goblins are participating in BfA
tulip sun
I believe it is still Gallywix with the alliance
At the end he has dialogue where he kicks them off
It is supposedly Kezan
hollow dock
there is 0 proof that the fifth being shown is an Old God Gandem
plain vigil
What else is it?
hollow dock
It could be an Ancient One
It could also jus tbe hte artist putting it in because it was cool
Chronicles clearly states 4 landed on Azeroth before the titans came and none others have landed. Chronicles has not been retconned yet.
tropic trail
any chance the picture in question could be linked?
hollow dock
theres a 50/50 chance for anything to ahppen.
How liikely? not very. Blizzard has made it clear in the past that art is not always canon.
they do operate on 'Rule of Cool' and will just toss stuff in just because it looks cool. Like the snake in Zul'drak.
plain vigil
Unless the titans didn’t know about the 5th... or 4 did land and n’zoth isnt on azeroth, he’s in the shadowlands...
hollow dock
Or the chronicles didn't lie in stating all the old gods are contained on Azeroth and that the Titans have been on Azeroth since the four old gods have been here and that chronicles ISNT WRITTEN IN THE VIEW OF THE TITANS
Seriously. Stop fueling the idiocy that is Pyromancer.
plain vigil
Chronicle is wayyyyyy too thought out though. The old god placement was intentional.
hollow dock
Its almost like CHRONICLES IS MEANT TO SOLIDIFY THE WARCRAFT UNIVERSE OR SOMETHING
WOW
WHAT AN AMAZING REVELATION
plain vigil
So n’zoth can still be in the shadowlands....
hollow dock
I dont see how. He's been in containment this whole time until the end of Legion
Even Xalatath tell us this
and even then
there's no garuntee that he's actually broken free.
it's just another theory
plain vigil
There are so many hints though!
hollow dock
There's 0 hints. 0 credible hints versus what is actually said in game.
meager warren
which chronicle are you talking about?
All of them?
wild pewter
Thank you for all of the VO!
hollow dock
Chronicles vol 1.
plain vigil
Chronicle 1 and 3 specifically
hollow dock
Vol 3 has a picture with an unknown Old God-like being in the corner.
plain vigil
There are also hints in game with the whispers
hollow dock
Pyromancer flat out states, that's an Old God.
plain vigil
Not talking about pyro here’ my opinions are my own.
hollow dock
When theres no credibility to this claim other than his other claim that the Chronicles are only written by the titans
dense plover
vris
its gandem
just ignore them
they said the same thing last time
"its my own opinion not pyro"
"i came up with it on my own"
etc
meager warren
no need to be a dick, peach
plain vigil
There are specific quotes in chron 3 hinting it that tie them to hp lovecraft’s writing, as well as hints in game about n’zoth being in the shadowlands
hollow dock
Gandem
meager warren
"it's possible to be honest without being brutal"
dense plover
he is sitting at the bottom of the ocean somewhere
hollow dock
THE OLD GODS WERE INSPIRED BY HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE ;3;
dense plover
unchained from his prison, like cthuun or yogg were, not free, but free-ish
old gods dont like in the shadowlands
they are on the same plane as we are
hollow dock
Possibly unchained. We dont know the exact state of his prison, all we know is what was told to us by Xala'tath
plain vigil
Which is what i’m trying to say. There is a specific chron 3 quote that eerily ties to a specific hp lovecraftian god
hollow dock
that he was writhing in his prison. Almost free.
dense plover
no there isnt
it coincides with lovecraft lore
which you then extrapolate to be a theory
which is nonsense
hollow dock
it's almost like its a homage to Lovecraft or something
dense plover
you cant extrapolate one thing and then say "hey look, theres this source thats similar and it says this, so that must be what that quote is talking about"
which is not how anything works
also
chronicles isnt from a titans pov or anything
its a fourth wall breaking book
that explains the canon lore
no tricks involved
hollow dock
it ties it all together nice and neatly so we dont have what we used to have
dense plover
thats the entire premise they sold those books to us on
hollow dock
every other year another portion retconned
dense plover
to do otherwise is actually false advertising
plain vigil
You’re saying that things need to be 100% clearly stated... writers don’t do that. Writers hint things.
dense plover
because that is how they literally advertised it
hollow dock
Gandem
hollow dock
you're 100% right in EVERY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE BUT THIS ONE
dense plover
^
plain vigil
No lmao
hollow dock
Chronicles serves 1 purpose
and 1 purpose only
Tying together the entire Warcraft universe into 1 cohesive storyline so we stop retconning.
dense plover
chronicles does give some hints in some ways
like it described a structure beneath the tomb
a titan structure
but we ran into it in ToS
hollow dock
which I firmly believe is the area that the Avatar was imprisoned in.
hollow dock
so the chamber had some other use
dense plover
what was its intended purpose
exactly
i think its one of the things holding nzoth in
hollow dock
It could have been the original pen for him.
dense plover
it matches up with a large chunk of their territory
hollow dock
it's certainly large enough
dense plover
and it fits the five keys line
which may be why all this old god stuff is going on that wasnt
maybe we loosened the bonds when we went and beat ToS
hollow dock
In some universe where the Avatar wasn't placed in there and N'zoth was kept there. It would certainly match up
plain vigil
Chron 3 quote:
Shrouded in an ocean of fevered dreams, among the bones of nameless horrors, N'Zoth remained untouched by the blade of mortals.
hollow dock
What's the full paragraph ey?
plain vigil
Untouched by the blade of mortals...
hollow dock
Yes because we have never harmed him
Like ever
he's been kept in containment this whole time
He's the only old god that's still somewhat in his prison.
dense plover
i think one of the chains holding nzoth (obviously not literal chains), but essentially one of the seals of his prison
hollow dock
Cho'gall never found him.
dense plover
is what the titan structure there was for
hollow dock
Remember, Cho'gall is what stirred up C'thun and Yogg-saron. It was all him.
But no one has stirred up N'zoth, because no ones found his priosn
prison*
dense plover
^
Vris
what im suggesting is that ToS was one of Nzoth's prison seals
at least the titan part at the bottom
plain vigil
The only places a mortal’s blade can’t touch is the emerald dream and the shadowlands, unless we enter the realm completely, which has only happened in a few circumstances.
dense plover
and that ties into the 5 keys bit
hollow dock
no one has harmed N'zoth
dense plover
^
hollow dock
because no one has found him
dense plover
its very literal
hollow dock
You can't harm something you haven't found
dense plover
no blade has ever cut him
he lies at the bottom of the ocean
along with nyalotha
maybe
hollow dock
Our blades have harmed Yogg-saron, Our blades have harmed C'thun
dense plover
^
hollow dock
but our blades haven't yet touched N'zoth
dense plover
Vris, what do you think of my ToS theory?
hollow dock
I rather like. But there's no way they'd leave only 1 seal for N'zoth. So many there's other titan facilities that act as his seal?
plain vigil
Where in chronicle does it specifically state his location then?
dense plover
oh absolutely
hollow dock
Chronicles vol 1
plain vigil
Quote it please 😉
hollow dock
There is a map of the Old God lands pre and post titan cleansing
dense plover
maybe that was why azshara was pushing for stuff in vashjir?
i mean
elves generally seem to build near titan architecture
same with trolls
at least they did before the sundering
hollow dock
plain vigil
The other idea i had is that n’zoth is two separate entities.
hollow dock
ordering of Kalmindor
This is when the titans have cleansed out of the Old Gods corruption and wiped out the Black Empire
this is when they sealed away the Old Gods
plain vigil
So one could have landed on azeroth, the other in the shadowlands
dense plover
nzoth is one old god
meager warren
is Pandaria in there
dense plover
not two
hollow dock
this is all of their positions.
Yes it is Edgy
Look at where the Vale is
that's where Pandaria's center is
dense plover
thats not how things work gundem
plain vigil
Vape of eternal memes
dense plover
the void lords sent out the old gods from the great dark
plain vigil
What about Varian then peach?
meager warren
o nvm
dense plover
what?
dense plover
what does that have to do with varian?
hollow dock
a spell made him split in two
plain vigil
Varian was split
dense plover
he wasnt created by a void lord
plain vigil
EXACTLY
hollow dock
There is no spell that can split an OLD GOD IN TITAN CONTAINMENT GANDEM
dense plover
your theories are just nonsense
hollow dock
BECAUSE NO ONE HAS FOUND HIM
plain vigil
HE COULD HAVE BEEN SPLIT INTO TO ENTITIES!
meager warren
wot
plain vigil
How do you know all of him is in containemnt...
meager warren
varian is an old god wat
dense plover
also chronicles 1
and the devs
and all other lore
he may have broken out partially by now
hollow dock
She specifically tells us to hurry and defeat the fallen titan. He is almost free and preparations must be made.
meager warren
the old gods seek chaos and destruction and varian was one of the people who pushed for peace
dense plover
which is where my theory of ToS being a seal for his prison comes from
hollow dock
Varian never pushed for peace.
plain vigil
But how do the titans know all of him is in there?
hollow dock
until ending of MoP
dense plover
especially since Chonicles 1 says there is a titan structure under the tomb
meager warren
so, he did?
dense plover
that is much older
hollow dock
BECAUSE THEY HAVE MAPPED THE ENTIRE PLANET
hollow dock
They've peered DEEP INTO AZEROTH THEY SAW THE OLD GODS AROUND HER. THEY HAVE SEEN IT ALL.
dense plover
they physically structured the planet
and trapped the old gods
all 3 remaining ones
plain vigil
But if n’zoth split himself in two, the titans may be unaware
hollow dock
AMAN'THULS HAND IS LARGE ENOUGH TO PICK UP Y'SHAARJ FOR PETES SAKE
dense plover
after attempting to remove yshaarj, which created the well of eternity
old gods cant split themselves
they can do very little in prison
plain vigil
Like if N’zoth split himself and half got contained, then n’zoth plotted
dense plover
they can spend power
hollow dock
There is no instance in which an Old God has phsically split himself
meager warren
discourse is juicy today
plain vigil
Doesnt mean it cant or hasnt happened...
hollow dock
ONLY BORDERLINE PROOF
Is the Ancient Ones
which are pieces of the Old Gods that gain sentience
plain vigil
And the black dragonflight specifically onyxia has split someone before. The black dragonflight can do it, why can’t the old gods?
hollow dock
None of them are able to enter the shadow lands. N'zoth was placed under full containment.
dense plover
^
hollow dock
BECAUSE DRAGONS ARE NOT OLD GODS
hollow dock
that's like saying WELL THIS SOLDIER CAN TAKE DOWN AN ENTIRE COMPOUND BLINDFOLDED
WHY CANT THIS BABY
plain vigil
The black dragons are weaker, and serve n’zoth...
hollow dock
the black dragons serve THE OLD GODS.
dense plover
its like saying that ice cream tastes good so why cant brussel sprouts?
hollow dock
they are SERVANTS
plain vigil
If the weaker ones can split things in two why couldnt the more powerful being 😂
dense plover
seriously?
plain vigil
Yea
hollow dock
because the dragons learned magic, ARCANE MAGIC, that is what they use to make these spells.
plain vigil
Okay i’ll move on to a different idea then. Sonce yall won’t even concider it
hollow dock
The Old Gods have never shown any indication of doing it.
dense plover
that laugh emoji was a giveaway
dense plover
vris
meager warren
that analogy is dumb, vris because that's implying the old gods are weaker than the dragons.
unless that's what you meant by comparing soldiers with babies?
dense plover
dont
hollow dock
WHY CAN'T THE OLD GODS USE PORTALS
dense plover
no
hollow dock
answer me that one Gandem
dense plover
and
plain vigil
I’m not a troll because you disagree with me peach lmao
dense plover
no
you are trolling because you dont listen
and say the same thing
and then laugh
thats literally trolling
hollow dock
The old god servants can open up portals to stormwind
why can't the old gods?
Mhmm?
plain vigil
Uhhh the old gods are too large, they can partially use portals...
hollow dock
Oh yea? Why haven't they just opened bigger portals?
Where is their use of arcane magic?
dense plover
^
hollow dock
which is how we use portals btw
dense plover
old gods are uber powerful
if they are so strong
they should be able to open big portals
meager warren
okay now the discourse is getting retarded
dense plover
because splitting a person in to two halves takes way more power than a portal
plain vigil
Btw peach that’s not trolling. Trolling is saying stupid shit to ge a rise out of people. I’m stating a theory that you disagree with, not trying to piss you off.
dense plover
its getting dumb because the theory is fucking dumb
plain vigil
Vris they use void portals, not arcane portals
meager warren
and ur fucking dumb
hollow dock
Jaina's able to teleport entire armies at a time
dense plover
its garbage nonsense
meager warren
ur garbage nonsense
hollow dock
Why can't the old gods just teleport themselves out of their prisons?
meager warren
because it's a prison?
hollow dock
But their servants are able to do it Edgy
so they should be more than capable of doing it
dense plover
if its a prison and they cant use portals
meager warren
their servants aren't the ones the prison was built for
dense plover
why would they be able to split themselves while in prison
hollow dock
So?
meager warren
so in this case, the babies in your analogy can use the portals but the soldiers can't
hollow dock
They should be able to teleport out. Because their servants are capable of doing it
dense plover
especially when splitting someone into two personalities takes way more magic
plain vigil
The old god’s that we’ve seen have themselves tied around azeroth. It’s stated in chronicle. That’s why they don’t teleport. But we Havent seen n’zoth so we can’t say that he’s tied through azeroth
dense plover
they are big huge fleshy monster parasites
hollow dock
it's stated
dense plover
all four of them
plain vigil
Quote it vris
hollow dock
ALL 4 OLD GODS ARE TIED INTO AZEROTH
dense plover
1 sec
plain vigil
Quote it
dense plover
lemme fetch my book
hollow dock
You want to fight lore
plain vigil
The full paragraph as you like to say
plain vigil
Quote it
hollow dock
Peach is going to do you bette.r He's going to show you the physical page
plain vigil
Perfect
dense plover
Quote
"After Overwhelming the old god [Nzoth], the keepers used their powers to encase the creature in an underground prison"
hollow dock
N'Zoth
Main article: N'Zoth
N'Zoth was the first Old God to be neutralized by the titan-forged. He was imprisoned in an underground prison some distance west of Uldaman, [9] but has since notably been responsible for the formidable growth of the Emerald Nightmare.[10] During the Cataclysm, N'Zoth was a driving force behind the actions of Deathwing.[11]
Four Old Gods — Y'Shaarj, C'Thun, Yogg-Saron and N'Zoth — ruled the planet of Azeroth during its primordial age, forming what would become known as the Black Empire. When the Pantheon arrived, they sent their armies, the titan-forged, to shatter the Old Gods' citadels and crumble their empire. The first Old God, Y'Shaarj, proved much too strong for the titan-forged to defeat, however, which prompted the titan leader Aman'Thul to reach down his arm and tear Y'Shaarj apart.
In doing so, he had unintentionally created a giant gaping wound in the planet's crust from which the arcane lifeblood of the nascent titan was hemorrhaging. The titans thus realized that the Old Gods had embedded themselves too deep in the world's surface to be removed without destroying Azeroth itself. They instead decided to imprison the Old Gods deep below the surface of the world and contain their evil forever.[4]
Though incapacitated and, until recently, forgotten, the Old Gods still to this day influence the very people and events of Azeroth. Along with the Burning Legion, they are one of the most powerful and reoccurring threats found in the Warcraft series of games and books, especially in World of Warcraft: Cataclysm where they attempted to bring about the end of the world, the Hour of Twilight.
Do you honestly want to keep fighting the god damn canon