@hollow dock https://i.imgur.com/AwAOOFd.jpg
#beta-ptr-spoilers
terse patrol
terse patrol
ours is a cycle of memes
That’s all I got left atm
Need the cinematics to come out
hollow dock
Inb4 jaina and wolf-genn get them too
rich apex
Someone find the Evil Shaw Grin
hollow dock
Git outta here wit dat weeb shit
hollow dock
tropic trail
Hearing someone call Jaina "Jaina-Chan", well I guess I'm not allowed to like that character anymore.
ruby star
but Saurfang turned away, roaring, “Malfurion Stormrage! I challenge you to mak’gora!”
Oh my
Saurfang opened his eyes. Malfurion was not looking at him. His arms were crossed in front of his face as an arrow, wreathed in shades of violet smoke, exploded just before him. Emerald light rose against the darkness, and Malfurion charged to fight Sylvanas Windrunner, who had another arrow nocked and drawn at point-blank range.
Oh no Sylv will probs kill Malfurion 😦
jade basalt
Pretty sure he shows up in Darkshore later, so no
Also why does Sylvie insist on firing arrows in melee (point-blank) range
tropic trail
because not using both melee and ranged weapons at the same time is part of the hunter class fantasy
sudden oak
I mean its not like you can do other thing when the enemy is runing at you
that too
also burn the one that said Jaina-chan @tropic trail
jade basalt
Yes, it is "like you can do other things".
First instinct when you're fighting at point-blank range is not to fire arrows.
tropic trail
she's been shown to be pretty good with duel swords
but I have to admit, dancing around your enemy shooting them with arrows is a lot more badass
meager warren
JAINA-CHAN
tropic trail
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
meager warren
i don't like or dislike her tbh
tropic trail
I like her, her actions, although a little extreme, were fairly justified
mint arch
she elsa now~
tropic trail
and she's one of the few surviving wc3 characters
meager warren
though it's more on the side of dislike because the writers don't give her a personality of her own.
She's pretty much anti-Horde because PIS
mint arch
blizzard have writers?
meager warren
"Forgiveness is taking the knife out of your own back and not using it to hurt anyone else."
tropic trail
They do have a real writer now
meager warren
Christie should have written both the Horde-side book and Alliance-side book
strange falcon
did she write only the horde book?
meager warren
she wrote only the alliance book
yep. the bot just put it in #latest-news-old
more info about that
tropic trail
aight, ill take a look
also, that female mag'har orc jewelry
that necklace is awesome
strange falcon
he may not be,but we know of saurfang in bfa,while malf in bfa is nowhere to be seen
so something happened
rich apex
Depends on if Saurfang can hit the interrupt before Malf can cast 😛
hollow dock
Or they just dont use malfurion
rich apex
I mean
hollow dock
That could also be it Dafire
mint arch
many chars pop up in and out of xpac lifetime
hollow dock
Going by Blizzards track record
mint arch
he may not be around in the beginning
hollow dock
If its not relevant
mint arch
doenst meant he cant show up later
hollow dock
Its not used
tropic trail
Malf would probably beat saurfang tbh, 'cause magic usually trumps physical prowess
see thrall v garrosh as an example
mint arch
in a forest environment especially
rich apex
I am certainly hoping Mal goes Full Force of Nature
tropic trail
and I kinda find it hard to believe they'd kill malf, he's kinda really important to druid lore.
mint arch
the first druid
sudden oak
lets hope the Sylvanas VS Malfurion fight is a good one
mint arch
sylvanas
pls
but itll be that elf
whoever she is
malf prob gets injured or some shit
mint arch
maybe he tries saving the tree
and shit goes wrong or he over-exerts himself
and ya, nightmare fcks him up
tropic trail
or maybe he does die
but then, something something, elune brings him back
probably one of the worst theories I've ever come up with lol
misty blaze
i just hope none of my female wow waifus die in bfa or ill be super saiyan ultra instinct mastered pissed off
hollow dock
Git outta here wit dat weeb shit
mint arch
cept sylvanas, u can kill her
sudden oak
they could also kill malfurion then :^)
mint arch
if that's the price for sylvanas's death, then by all means
sudden oak
nah the price for Sylvanas death is quite higher 
strange falcon
i need dat emote
mint arch
GW emotes
sudden oak
let me search the channel
https://discord.gg/qlabs @strange falcon
here you go child
strange falcon
i appreciate this
strange falcon
we got saurfang's bizarre adventure here https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/419976727700307988/431897044748075018/Saurfangs_Bizzaar_Adventure.png
meager warren
what's JOjo
mint arch
malf-sama laying it out~
strange falcon
@meager warren best anime that has ever been made
mint arch
dense plover
well shit
now i see why saurfang is so pissed
sylvanas didnt let him die with honor
yeah she saved his life
but she dishonored him
twin chasm
Can someone tell me: zandalari will be playable in 8.1 or something? 😦
mint arch
and the pillar men theme was playing
dense plover
we dont know
mint arch
so ever more pissed
dense plover
just not in 8.0
mint arch
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dense plover
we just know they arent in at launch
mint arch
aye
mint arch
expect the rep grind for them to be ... fun -_-
twin chasm
wanted to play main-zandalari, but blizzard ruined my dream
dense plover
maybe
it might just be that they require a finished war campaign
and instead of rep
mint arch
itll be rep
mint arch
all the others have rep
mint arch
cant have fun mister peach >:
strange falcon
we know they're ""later""
dense plover
where it isnt awful to do it assuming you are active
strange falcon
we dont know if 8.0.5 or 8.1
mint arch
8.0.5 seems early
dense plover
for all we know they could be 8.3
sudden oak
zandalari will be 
mint arch
🔜
strange falcon
makes no sense for them to be 8.3
dense plover
we dont know the full story
we clearly arent getting them in 8.0
so they have more story plans
ruby star
Lol I just spent £89.99 on the collectors edition (Will be my first collectors edition I've bought)
dense plover
b/c we dont know what 8.3 is
strange falcon
their story ends with the uldir raid
dense plover
you cant be sure
strange falcon
which is the first raid
dense plover
its literally impossible to be sure at this point
strange falcon
so it makes no sense to release them on the third raid
dense plover
we have 0 clue about patch content
and only know the plan for the 2nd raid
8.3 would be the fourth raid
just to be clear
just like in legion
where 7.3 was argus
strange falcon
ye
dense plover
and Antorus is the 4th raid
strange falcon
and it makes no sense at all for them to be released in the 4th raid,when their story ends in the first raid
dense plover
except their story doesnt end there
we dont know what the plan is post-8.0
but we do know that they arent going to discard the entire continent
strange falcon
i always forget how pointless it is to talk to you everytime
dense plover
the 2nd raid of legion was also on the main land
only the 3rd raid added a new area
the broken shore
assuming the pattern follows
we will have new content in 8.1 in zandalar and kul tiras
which means the raid would be in 8.1.5
and then we may get zandalari either at the end of that or at the start of 8.2
assuming we are following logic
what i was saying is we dont know blizzard's plans, so while unlikely, it is entirely possible for zandalari to come out at the end of the expac. again, very unlikely, improbably even, but technically possible
strange falcon
i will personally buy you the next expansion after bfa is zandalari are released in 8.3
mark my words
dense plover
oh
mint arch
^
strange falcon
that is incredibly unlikely
mint arch
quote
dense plover
im saying its unlikely
again
its more likely they will join after the 2nd raid
or possibly in the same patch as it
but its possible
strange falcon
the most likely is they will join after first raid
dense plover
no it isnt
that would be the same patch as the other allied races
essentially
that would be a waste
strange falcon
not really
ruby star
i think we'll get at least anothor batch of Allied races after Mag'har,DID,Zand and kul'tirans
dense plover
you need to keep players subbed
if you blow all four allied races in the first raid, you wasted your efforts
why not spread them out over more than 6 months or so
ruby star
we'll probably get a new batch of races not announced yet in 8.3
tulip sun
Just read the exerts from the text...
dense plover
but the content in x.x.5 patches are mostly non-sequitors
tulip sun
Oh my o.o
tulip sun
and Sylvanas saved him :ooo
dense plover
he must think sylvanas doesnt understand what orcs are about
which is sort of true
she saved him during makgora
she dishonored him
tulip sun
Sylvanas is totally against the mak'gora and dieing for honor thing
dense plover
at least for saurfang
tulip sun
Ya, I suppose.
dense plover
which is bad for the horde tbh
tulip sun
She must realize she needs him
dense plover
orcs believe in honor
she knows she needs him
thats why she doesnt want him to kill himself
but he has to in order to regain his honor
dense plover
unless he comes to some kind of internal realization
tulip sun
I wanna see how that fight ends.
tulip sun
I remember sometime back a few weeks someone said Sylvanas is weak and lets her people die for her.
I hope they realize they are wrong now.
tulip sun
My point is she does fight and get her hands dirty.
dense plover
she believes different lives have different values
absolutely
but she would rather not
tulip sun
I am looking up these named characters if they have actually appeared.
dense plover
dont think so
tulip sun
Nah, Morka is a no one.
meager warren
but she does let her people die for her.
She's warchief. She's supposed to do that
tulip sun
I love when battles like this happen-
dense plover
but different people should and shouldnt die
tulip sun
and all leaders let their soldiers die in battles.
tulip sun
But I was just refering to the past when someone said she never gets her hands dirty.
hollow dock
her generals are only important to her if theyre loyal
tulip sun
She knows Saurfang would kill her if she does anything wrong though.
meager warren
she only gets her hands dirty if it's absolutely necessary and even then she'd rather send fodder in
tulip sun
He is loyal to the Horde, not her
hollow dock
When Sylvy gets her hands dirty, you dont know its her
tulip sun
I am feeling that elf in the art is this new sentinel we are reading about
hollow dock
It does make more sense since the armor in the Teldrassil picture and the new Sentinel we see are simialr
just, what purpose does sylvanas have to keep her close?
tulip sun
But why would anyone heal a sentinel?
hollow dock
That's not her style
hollow dock
Like. Even if we look at her in a 'Oh she's just being evil way'
She doesn't rub it into peoples faces. She does the deed and moves on.
She's not a gloater
meager warren
In sAurfang's case, she is a gloater
hollow dock
She tells him to either retreat with her or die alone.
Then leaves.
That's not gloating
tulip sun
So I am assuming Before the Storm takes place before these novels
meager warren
but then she tells him if he dies, she'll just raise him up again
hollow dock
You dont have to assume that
We were told at blizzcon that Before the Storm happens before teldrassil
Again Edgy, that's not really gloating. She doesn't stick around to rub it into Saurfangs face. That's just not her style.
tulip sun
I think that was more of a bluff Edgy.
hollow dock
Yet she does it here with this sentinel.
hollow dock
It could be ceremonial.
tulip sun
I have no clue now, lol. But wow
Reading those got me excited.
Malfurion is finally doing some neat stuff.
tropic trail
"TYRANDE I NEED U"
dense plover
weve gone over this
mint arch
TYRANDE-CHAAAAN
dense plover
that was xavius
meager warren
Tyrande is a little shit
dense plover
and it was the fact that tyrande was seriously distressed that she believed them
mint arch
nah peach, its just cool to blindly hate on tyrande
tropic trail
probably, but it's still funny
mint arch
she should've insta forgiven illidan and sucked his dick for his greaaaaat "sacrifice"
meager warren
blindly?
she rejected the nightborne because of something that happened in the past.
and that's on top of other stuff
tropic trail
she looked down her nose at them, I don't think she ever actually did anything to them
mint arch
loooool
wut
tyrande bullied the nightborne! DAT BITCH
like of all things to point out, this is what u chose?
xD
tyrande ain't a good char cause blizzard writing
meager warren
well it's a pretty good thing imo
mint arch
she had perfectly fine reason to distrust the nightborne and hell, be angry with em
¯_(ツ)_/¯
but hey, at least ur not using the illidan msg and her reaction to it
ppl who go that far are just -_-
i can agree she handled the nightborne poorly
hollow dock
She didn't handle it as best she could, but she handled it as best as Tyrande could handle working with backstabbers.
after being backstabbed by a backstabber and trusting them again.
But nah let's forget that little tidbit that Tyrande did trust Illidan for a moment before getting betrayed by him. Again.
meager warren
Illidan chose to sacrifice
mint arch
he's given up everything to ..... look at sargeras!
hollow dock
The only thing Illidan sacrificed was his chance at true redemption and facing the consequences of his actions
meager warren
^
hollow dock
Like I'd love the guy if they went full circle and completely treated him like 343 treats Doctor Halsey
mint arch
343 have shit on halsey
hollow dock
They made the smart move in her getting arrested for her war crimes during the Human-Covenant war and then escaping to find the Forerunners Library. It perfectly fit her character.
mint arch
they've gone too far
imo
they are making her out to be a monster
now she DID do bad things
i wont deny that
hollow dock
She is though. It doesn't change that she did basically single-handedly save the human race.
but she still committed the crimes. And she's still held accountable for them.
rich apex
illidan laughs from the Seat of the Pantheon
meager warren
This reminds me of a quote,
"You know, you tell yourself: I'll just do this one bad thing and all the good things i'll do later will make up for it. But they don't. There's still that bad thing."
hollow dock
I wouldn't say that. They make her out to be far more intelligent than most of ONI that's hunting her, she's using Jul 'Mdama as a means to the end.
tulip sun
When was she arrested or whatever about her war crimes?
hollow dock
Yup
She created the Spartan IIs by experimenting on children. Kidnapping them, replacing them with flash clones, and killing over half the batch she got. She then trained them into true soldiers. They only know war and fighting. The perfect soldiers.
mint arch
tbh, with 343's track record
hollow dock
those are her crimes.
hollow dock
Though, despite her cold exterior, she does care for the Spartans she's turned into killing machines.
mint arch
but 343 are making her out to be a monster for what she did
hollow dock
If you saw the crimes she's done here in our world, you'd be saying the same thing.
mint arch
hell, the Spartan 3 program is arguably worse than spartan 2
at least Halsey has shown remorse and deep care for her spartans
and she has helped humanity
greatly
hollow dock
She basically saved humanity from extinction.
But, the ends do not justify the means.
hollow dock
I mean. ONI goes on a smear campaign of anyone they want gone.
Look at what they did to Chief.
mint arch
i really dont get what 343 want to do with the story
they've fcked things SO BAD with halo 5
honestly, ive fallen off halo lore
hollow dock
they're just trying to hard to 'Impress' the fanbase.
meager warren
she did horrible illegal experiments on children.
how is she not a monster?
hollow dock
They weren't necessarily illegal just she wasn't supposed to have done them on children.
Halsey kept ONI in the dark on a lot of what she did.
mint arch
which is what they hate
ONI*
and the spartan III program was worse
cause the orphans used there
hollow dock
Oh yea. and they were flash trained to die.
mint arch
" create Spartans out of 6-year-olds with pretty much the deliberate up-front intention of having them all killed. "
meager warren
and the people who created the spartan IIIs were also shitty
mint arch
and Parangosky sanctioned that spartan III shit
the ppl behind spartan III were worse
Halsey cared for her spartans
and she showed remorse for what she had to do
and hell, she supported them throughtout their lives
"Parangosky was responsible for approving the killing of nearly 600 12-year-old orphans in the the III program"
meager warren
but she didn't care for the people behind her spartan outfits
tulip sun
What the he'll are we talking about
meager warren
halo 4
hollow dock
Halo lore and its correlation of Doctor Halsey to Illidan
hollow dock
She cared deeply for all the surviving spartans.
mint arch
^
hollow dock
She knew all their names by heart, even the ones that died.
mint arch
halsey was like a mother for all the spartan II's
hollow dock
Not just their assigned names, their first names. Their real names.
meager warren
maybe but she didn't care about who they really were
hollow dock
Oh no she did. She 100% cared if they lived or died.
mint arch
um, yes she did
hollow dock
Just see how she treats Jorge in halo Reach to the rest of Noble team
meager warren
did she care about the children she kidnapped, experimented on? Practically tortured?
hollow dock
Yup
meager warren
Turned into monsters?
mint arch
monsters?
hollow dock
She cared and carries that guilt with her.
mint arch
spartan II's are not monsters
hollow dock
She's just convinced herself that it was necessary
hollow dock
I mean
starving Outland of water
is torturing everyone. Including kids
Dehydration is no joke
meager warren
but that was Kil'jaedon's fault
and Sargeras's fault
and Grom's
and Illidan probably played a part but eh
hollow dock
Outland was doing fine until Illidan was tryign to strongarm it into joining him
meager warren
okay, maybe.
But Illidan also has a demon inside him so it may not have been totally his fault
mint arch
...
hollow dock
Actually he doesn't. He's the only demon hunter that did not seal a demon inside him to gain his demonic power.
meager warren
?
hollow dock
Sargeras granted him all his abilities.
meager warren
how tf is he a DH then
mint arch
didnt sarg give him his demon powers?
hollow dock
Yup.
meager warren
wat
hollow dock
When Sarg burned out his eyes
meager warren
why would Sargeras do that
hollow dock
that's when he became a demon hunter
because Illidan joined the legion with the intent on backstabbing them all
fallen valley
^
hollow dock
"Oh yea bro. Pump me up with that fel shit. I'll totally join you" -Illidan to Sargeras
fallen valley
He deceived the deceiver
meager warren
u weeb
hollow dock
ur a fkin weeb
meager warren
no u
hollow dock
nost u
meager warren
nostst u
mint arch
vris is a confirmed weeb
hollow dock
noststst u
mint arch
its fact now
meager warren
yep
hollow dock
Where's your proof?
hollow dock
if you remember to =^)
meager warren
tru
strange falcon
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/419964841361539073/431923541685043210/Cattura.PNG helping out ppl for buggy quests,
meager warren
what am i looking at
hollow dock
that orcs face is: "God damn it blizzard I just wanted to ride my mammoth"
strange falcon
@meager warren there's a quest item right where the mammoth's face is,and the structure has no collision,so you have to glitch in,mount a big mount and then grab it
but you can only glitch in from a certain angle
hollow dock
that's alpha for ya
strange falcon
👍
meager warren
where's the mamoth's face tho
it looks like leaves and bones
and some yellow thing
hollow dock
It's in the ground
Like he said, there's no collision.
meaning he walks into it like it's not there
meager warren
oh! nvm
hollow dock
Like the noclip cheat in Gmod/Half life
strange falcon
did i mention that if you walk just a tiny bit farther than where i am
you fall through the ground
and have to relog
meager warren
hollow dock
Yup
meager warren
why couldn't you have done up close
hollow dock
Noclip
He is following the natural ground
not the structure, as it has no collision attached to it
meager warren
is that a new mammoth model?
hollow dock
Nope. just hte horde variant
meager warren
ok
meager warren
hey, peach. 😘
hollow dock
Oh good. it wont be like the relic paths in the Forge
tropic trail
did he confirm that we'll be killing azshara this xpac?
Q: What can you tell us about the raid release?
A: The structure they had for Legion launch was a good amount of time. Possible they do something like that in the future. Queen Azshara will be the "Gul'dan" of the Nighthold.
meager warren
i hope we get to kill Sylvanas this expac but honestly, i doubt it
dense plover
We are fighting her as a raid boss
tropic trail
gul'dans death was really anticlimactic imo, hope she gets more screen time
hollow dock
I mean. We do kill Gul'dan
dense plover
Killing is never confirmed until cutscene
tropic trail
true
hollow dock
and if they say she's the 'Gul'dan' of this expac
and Gul'dan died.
rather early on
dense plover
I don’t think that’s what that means
hollow dock
and only really served to kick off the expac
hollow dock
He was not the main antagonist of Legion
dense plover
Early on?
dense plover
He wasn’t fought until more than a year into the expac
And he was definitely the main antagonist until KJ showed up
hollow dock
and he hadn't had any real impact. Anywhere than the broken shore.
tropic trail
but he also had no screen time the entire xpac up to that point
dense plover
Uh
The entire Illidan storyline was a result of him
All of the suramar story
Like
hollow dock
And he's no where to be seen
tropic trail
but HE had no screen time
hollow dock
its all consequence of him showing up
dense plover
Yeah
hollow dock
not him actually doing anything
dense plover
Neither did Illidan in BC
tropic trail
fair enough
hollow dock
Illidan was seen though. You can see him and his influence everywhere.
You can't say the same for Gul'dan
dense plover
Where do you actually see Illidan outside the black temple
meager warren
just like you can see Gul'dan's influence everywhere?
tropic trail
but bc was also an older expansion with less cohesive questing, you'd expect gul'dan to show up in the story more in legion, instead of "gul'dan did this off camera, go deal with it"
dense plover
Highmountain bloodtotem, suramar, broken shore (pre-nighthold), vault of the wardens
All of the Illidan storyline
The Illidari being released
Fuck he started the event for Pete’s sake
His influence is fucking everywhere up until his death
He is the one who gave god king Skovald his power
Yes it wasn’t on screen
hollow dock
If you do go and do Shadowmoon Valley, he personally appears in several quests. Gul'dan hasn't.
tropic trail
but a lot of that was him doing stuff off screen, not us encountering him during questing, I agree that he did do a lot of stuff in legion, we just don't actually see him doing it
tropic trail
vault is true, and some of the artifacts
hollow dock
In which most of what 'Guldan' did is really just attributed to the Legion.
meager warren
The best villains are those who work in the shadows
dense plover
It wasn’t a great use of him I agree
hollow dock
Except in a visual medium Edgy
dense plover
But you can’t say he is nonexistent
hollow dock
I didn't? I said he just can't be attributed as a main antagonist
when he hasn't done anything
dense plover
I think if they had done him like arthas in wrath that would’ve been much better
tropic trail
but take wrath for example, arthas showed up every once in awhile to come and laugh at us, woulda been nice to see gul'daniel do something similar
dense plover
But they didnt
meager warren
even more in a visual medium, Vris
tropic trail
beat me to it
dense plover
It seems like they are doing a good job with Zul in that way
hollow dock
Ghoulish daniel is his full name Green
dense plover
But we fight him in the first raid
Though I’m unsure if he dies
If he lives, we might get the hakkar story we deserve
meager warren
first raid of legion or wod?
hollow dock
I think it implies he does.
meager warren
oh so you didn't block me
dense plover
Yes I did
meager warren
:sad:
dense plover
I can just click a box to view your messages
meager warren
i thought you were talking about Gul'dan
dense plover
When you get too obnoxious, I just don’t open them
tropic trail
there were a lot of mythic+ questions in that interview, mostly answered with "almost nothing is changing"
meager warren
"if you are agitated and confused, my work here is done."
dense plover
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it
tropic trail
true
hollow dock
I just hope that they fix around the affixes.
meager warren
they need to fix how hard they are
dense plover
Obviously they will
hollow dock
The weeks are starting to become 'Piss easy' or 'Punishingly difficult'
meager warren
^
tropic trail
but it kinda feels like a waste of questions, especially since it seems like it's the same questions asked in every interview
dense plover
They are changing tyrannical and that other one to level 2
And it wasn’t a waste
Knowing nothing is changing is still knowing
hollow dock
People have selective reading
and only read every other interview
so they ask the same questions
over and over and over and over and over and over and over
dense plover
Well
hollow dock
honestly I dont know how the CMs do it
meager warren
i just want to know if Sylvanas is gonna die
dense plover
I’m fairly sure he had no time to read previous interviews
Sylvanas isn’t going to die
Fairly sure
Like 99.9999999999%
dense plover
They aren’t going to kill another warchief
tropic trail
I'd be willing to bet genn might die, along with someone like saurfang for the horde
hollow dock
I hope what they do is remove Sylvanas from warchief, hand it to someone else, THEN kill her
There ya go. they didn' tkill another warchief
:v
dense plover
Nobody I can think of
hollow dock
anyone blizz wants
dense plover
Baine has no experience
Lorthemar is power mad
Power hungry
Thalyssra is too new
Mayla is too new
tropic trail
I think you meant galleywix
hollow dock
or whatever his name is spelt
meager warren
Let's seee....
Saurfang, Lor'themar, Baine, Alternate Grom, Vol'jin's spirit,
Gallywix dying? Ha
hollow dock
Eagle rider man
tropic trail
alternate grom really wouldn't help their case of "we're not evil"
ruby star
tbh Alternate Grom would be pretty bad ass
tropic trail
Thrall should just go back to being warchief
tropic trail
but with metzen retired, probably won't happen
meager warren
Yeah, well... Grom would be a better warchief than the Lich Queen
hollow dock
he just can't handle his old job
hollow dock
but he's a war vet. He's got the charisma, the leadership skills.
tulip sun
Jasan is his name Vris
hollow dock
Lasan is his name.
dense plover
^
tulip sun
I am confused now v.v
dense plover
Lasan Skyhorn
hollow dock
tulip sun
Jale.....jale is the one with a j
tulip sun
He even bombs the alliance, lol
tulip sun
I wonder if the bloodtotem will get a new chieftain, etc.
hollow dock
What more do you need in a warchief?
tropic trail
Baine is probably the most likely, even if he has no experience, anduin really didn't either
rigid furnace
Didn't stop the Tauren Paladin leader from losing his whole family (forcefully given away for adoption, literally crushed, or murdered) and becoming an apexis addict within two expansions. lol
hollow dock
wat.jpg @rigid furnace
the Tauren Paladin leader is a she. First off. Her family wasn't crushed. She wasn't given away for adoption.
meager warren
tbh, i feel like saying that getting Grom as warchief wouldn't help the horde's "we're not evil" vibe is kinda ironic since Sylvanas is warchief and she's pretty much a villain as it is
rigid furnace
Let's see, where is he...
hollow dock
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Aponi_Brightmane this is your first Sunwalker and its Chieftan
tropic trail
sylvy doesn't go around committing genocide because a hooded stranger told her to.
I'd argue that she's less evil than AU gromm
hollow dock
No she does it when a non-hooded stranger does
meager warren
no but she does go around comitting genocide because apparently it helps her war efforts.
but it doesn't
rigid furnace
Ah, my bad. Wasn't their leader. Just a prominent Sunwalker.
tulip sun
Dezco?
rigid furnace
Yeah, Dezco.
dense plover
its not genocide to attack the humans
rigid furnace
Introduced in Panda and his life just went to crap right quick.
hollow dock
Mercilessly slaughtering them without even using them as more forsaken kinda seems like Genocide to me
tropic trail
I mean, the HvA wars are kinda race wars
dense plover
she is using them as forsaken
the whole reason she is killing humans is to make more forsaken
hollow dock
Blight kills undead and living alike. Those that die to the blight, as far as I can tell through its use and the effects it has, can't be re-risen.
dense plover
yeah
meager warren
she's using the blight that kills both forsaken and humans, making the humans she kills worthless
hollow dock
and Southshore
dense plover
yeah
hollow dock
she's not attacking to raise more forsaken if she's using blight
dense plover
strategic locations
she is wiping the population
to gain the location for the horde
hollow dock
but not for more forsaken
dense plover
although gilneas is still a weird point
hollow dock
which is the original argument
dense plover
but its still not genocide
hollow dock
Slaughtering out a population of people is genocide
dense plover
killing people for a strategic location isnt genocide
"the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation."
deliberate killing would mean
you are killing them to kill them
hollow dock
She is deliberately killing people
dense plover
not for another reason
hollow dock
of Gileas and Southshore
dense plover
she has another reason
hollow dock
Deliberately means
that you mean to do it
That its not 'accidental'
or 'collateral damage'
meager warren
deliberate killing doesn't mean you're killing them to kill them.
it means you fully intend to kill them.
dense plover
So, what is special about genocide, and what separates genocide from war crimes, is not the acts in itself (both can be killing of individuals or even large groups of individuals) but its the intent of the perpetrators and the context in which these acts occur. When during a war civilians are killed this would constitute a war crime. However when these groups are killed with the intent to destroy the group or part of the group because of certain ethical, national, racial or religious characteristics of the individuals in this group, it constitutes genocide.
its a war crime
not genocide
they are different
hollow dock
That's what Sylvanas is doing then. Not genocide, but commited war crimes.
dense plover
yes
hollow dock
that slightly lessens her evil I guess?
hollow dock
War crimes are War crimes
tulip sun
So uh, did anduin commit a war crime killing this goblin miners?
meager warren
it doesn't lessen her evil at all imo
dense plover
yes
hollow dock
Those goblin miners were militarized
tulip sun
OF course your going to fight this
hollow dock
Their shredders were military grade and pickaxes are weapons.
dense plover
thats PR bullshit at its finest
hollow dock
Says the person protecting Syvlanas
ruby star
Yeah the Goblin miners deserved to killed, if they are helping the horde
tulip sun
Those civilians on kul tiras were farmers. They had rakes and such, aka militarized apparently
dense plover
im eplaining that viewpoints are viewpoints
from the horde PoV, sylvanas' actions are good for the horde
yeah they arent honorable
hollow dock
From the hordes side: She's killing Civilians of the enemy faction. i guess that's OK now. To kill innocents
tulip sun
He is, the same is said to alliancr
dense plover
there was military shit there
hollow dock
jus tbecause they live in southshore
hollow dock
So again I ask you
dense plover
when you place military leaders in a place with civilians they become vulnerable
hollow dock
those three children that were running around South Shore are not innocents?
tulip sun
Vris, your using arguments to insult the horde, but try to ignore it when the same is applied to alliance
dense plover
no war in history has civilians as fully innocent, at least not from a military persopective
hollow dock
When as the Alliance wiped out little wee baby orcs?
tulip sun
I am talking about silithus
meager warren
"helpful for the Horde"
"they arent innocent"
really? So if Sylvanas or Anduin were to kill the pandaren because they helped the other side, that wouldn't be wrong?
dense plover
using civilians to say you are innocent when you have war machines or generals discussing military stuff there is bullshit
tropic trail
Keeshan is said to have kiled baby orcs
hollow dock
We're talking about the war crimes Sylvanas commited Khamnin
dense plover
by putting the military leaders there, the alliance knew the innocents might be at risk
they took that risk
tulip sun
In an just stating apparently even anduin committed war crimes
tropic trail
not horde orcs tho
dense plover
that is not sylvanas' fault
she didnt make the decision to mix military personnel with innocents
hollow dock
Except it was her order to slaughter everyone indiscriminately
dense plover
yeah
hollow dock
But thats OK
dense plover
yes
hollow dock
cuz they wear the other colors flag
dense plover
its a war crime
meager warren
how is that okay
hollow dock
Its OK to slaughter children
meager warren
^
hollow dock
as long as their the enemies faction
meager warren
mrpeach, you must be fun at parties
hollow dock
Yea and I remember my grandpa saving german kids
dense plover
we, the US, did this to Japan
dense plover
we bombed plenty of families because there were factoriews in the cities
hollow dock
alright I'll give you that.
meager warren
oh and the US is totally free of fault, innit?
dense plover
its war
war is hell
if you want innocents to be safe
then dont mix them with military stuff
meager warren
bad shit happens in wars, perpetrated by all sides
meager warren
killing children is never okay
dense plover
until then
hollow dock
Except for the fact that because of those bombings we had a global neutering of nuclear arms against one another.
dense plover
its just war
before nukes
we bombed japan with regular bombs
we carpet bombed any factory cities
all of them
tons of children and families murdered
not considered a war crime though
know why?
they were the enemy
dense plover
and the miltary was active there
hollow dock
So again its just OK to kill kids. Alright.
dense plover
its not okay
meager warren
you just said it's okay
dense plover
but it happens during war
hollow dock
You just said it was
dense plover
no
meager warren
yes you did
dense plover
i said it isnt a war crime
meager warren
how isn't it
hollow dock
[6:00 PM] Vris: Except it was her order to slaughter everyone indiscriminately [6:00 PM] mrpeach774: yeah [6:00 PM] Vris: But thats OK [6:00 PM] mrpeach774: yes
everyone includes kids
dense plover
by the legal definition in times of war in locations where there is military activity
killing everyone indiscriminately is not a war crime
¯_(ツ)_/¯
not my definition
thats just how it is
dense plover
morals shmorals
hollow dock
again, its perfectly Ok to kill kids, women, injured and elderly
hollow dock
as long as they wear the other sides color
dense plover
if they are there to protect the military
meager warren
have you been to war, peach?
hollow dock
You're saying its OK to kill em
hollow dock
You just said it yourself
dense plover
but if there are military personnel there?
dense plover
YES
hollow dock
No I didn't make that
you had.
I ask again: If they are wearing hte other sides color; is it OK to kill them?
dense plover
im clarifying
tulip sun
He is saying that they are ok to kill if they are with military.
dense plover
not just the other siedes colors
hollow dock
Because that's what you've been saying yes to
dense plover
but if there is military activity in the area and the opposite side knows there are civvies and thats why they are there?
yes
tulip sun
You can't just randomly kill a villahe
dense plover
^
hollow dock
So if they have lets say
dense plover
but if it isnt random
dense plover
militia =/= military
hollow dock
and the enemy can make advantage
dense plover
militia is organized on a local level
military is organized on a kingdom level
they are not the same
hollow dock
So a militia of alliance troops
meager warren
killing indiscriminately is okay but killing militia is not/
hollow dock
is not OK to kill
meager warren
right. got it
dense plover
not unless they were given orders by an alliance general
dense plover
then they become soldiers of the alliance
and are ok to kill
or if it is self defenser
vris
you arent fucking reading
meager warren
you're not fucking reading either, asshole
hollow dock
You just said its war and it doesn't matter
dense plover
civvies are okay to kill if and only if they are in an area associated with military activity
fuck
you are reading each sentence as an individual thought
its one coherent idea
hollow dock
That its war and it doesn't matter.
dense plover
stop picking and choosing what i said
meager warren
maybe stop thinking about different things. be consistent
dense plover
you are being a fucking dick
hollow dock
They wear the other color and happen to date/marry into military families.
So theyre OK to kill
hollow dock
Yea it is military activity
dense plover
military general as job =/= activity
hollow dock
they are married to a man in the military
meager warren
"killing indiscriminately is okay but killing militia is not"
meager warren
orly
dense plover
but giving that as a reason to wipe out a town isnt
tulip sun
No need for insults
tulip sun
I am talking to edgy
dense plover
im so sick of vris nitpicking half of my sentences
tulip sun
I may have missed peach, but ya
meager warren
peach insults me all the time, Khamnin
dense plover
read the whole thing
hollow dock
hey man you're the one that's stated that it doesn't matter. its war.
hollow dock
owie my feewings
dense plover
not just one sentence
meager warren
you've been saying nothing but killing indiscrimately is okay
dense plover
in war it does matter
hollow dock
But you just said it doesnt
hollow dock
So now you clarify to cover yourself?
stone raven
I think you guys should change the subject. This is BFA spoilers and the wrong place for this sort of conversation.
dense plover
if the city is a staging area for military recruitment it doesnt
im not clarifying to cover myself
meager warren
peach has a stick up his ass about war
dense plover
im clarifying because a blanket statement is a general concept
hollow dock
So then why not say that before hand?
dense plover
and clarification is needed
because we hadnt gotten there yet
you hadnt asked specifics
meager warren
Vris did ask specifics though
dense plover
then you chose to ask specifics using my general statement as evidence
which is fucked up
because its twisting my words
to fit your narrative
if someone asks me what my favorite ice cream flavor is and i say coffee
then you say my favorite food is coffee ice cream
thats wrong
thats what you are doing
extrapolating my general concepts
meager warren
Says killing children because military is nearby is okay
Says that's just a general statement
You're 110% right, peach
dense plover
for specific questions
you are doing it to edgy
look
im gonna eat now
but basics here is both sides are absolutely awful
neither side is the good guy
hollow dock
So bombing lets say. A military stronghold and then the nearby commune
meager warren
when did i do that, peach?
hollow dock
is that OK?
meager warren
are you serious
hollow dock
It' snearby. No other specifics.
hollow dock
its ok to kill soldiers families but when I said its OK to kill some military dudes family you said no that's not OK if their job is just general military stuff.
dense plover
their family if they live there
because what if the soldiers are home
if you dont kill them, now you have a small army after you
im not saying a city where one military guy lives there
im saying a nearby city, and the nearby stronghold
hollow dock
so anger an entire nation. cuz a few armed soldiers might try and kill ya.
dense plover
no