i've never used heirlooms before 😬 how much does one set cost?
#beta-ptr-spoilers
torpid patio
hollow dock
looms cost like a few hundred gold each
and to upgrade to tier 1 is 1k, tier 2 is 5k and tier 3 is 10k I think.
torpid patio
so im good with ca. 20k for each set?
hollow dock
Id guess? I havent' had to buy looms or upgrades for a while so you're better off jus theading to ironforge and checking out for yourself
torpid patio
ok, im glad i havent bought much in this game, i think i saved up enough for just 1 set
does it matter which pieces i buy? it seems like there are 4 diffrent ones, is it just for style?
dense plover
what class and spec?
hollow dock
If you're planning on leveling up a leather wearer after the DH, buy a full leather set.
hollow dock
If you're planning on only buying 1 set, get the cloth set.
dense plover
cloth cant be worn for stats
hollow dock
Not wearing it for stats.
dense plover
then they will die
being 110 but essentially being half geared?
regular quest trash will murder you
hollow dock
It's for the XP m8. Once you hit 110, it's so easy to get a full set of 880 gear.
dense plover
yeah
dense plover
but getting to 110 will take way more time with no stats
hollow dock
That's why grouping exists.
rich apex
True
dense plover
your dmg will suck
terse plank
Unless you're getting carried, you'll be crushed in your cloth gear because cloth doesn't have the agility portion.
hollow dock
I've leveled a DK, warrior and hunter all perfectly fine in the cloth set lol
hollow dock
Why not ask instead of assuming?
I've given a suggestion and you've just tried to shoot it down.
dense plover
i just dont understand why
more classes use leather than any other type of gear
so why cloth?
hollow dock
that's perfectly fine.
dense plover
b/c in all liklihood, having the correct armor type makes it faster
terse plank
The problem is that scaling is reworked. You'll be crushed in the open world if you're levelling alone. Unless you're being carried the whole way through without having to lift a finger, cloth really isn't going to be the way for you.
Especially if they can't benefit from the stats. Like you can't even benefit from intellect at all on a demon hunter. At least a monk could, or a druid.
hollow dock
I've been leveling a monk with the full cloth set. (DPS) and I've not really had an issue killing stuff. I just am pacing myself a bit more.
terse plank
You could be doing so much better off by speccing MW and DPSing in MW spec at that point lol
hollow dock
Hierlooms just makes leveling faster. Which it does. Per quest Im getting more XP than normal.
dense plover
if your armor gives you nothing, the time you are taking is longer than using the correct type
sharp bluff
Cloth heirloom set was what I got first, I don’t regret it, all classes can wear it, so that priest I hate playing still can use it, where if I got plate it could not
hollow dock
^ that's the understanding I use.
terse plank
That's actually very arguable. IF you're killing things at a much slower rate because you're wearing inferior gear, the rate - especially now that things take longer to kill and actually require effort - you're massively slowing the speed you level.
hollow dock
and that could be true, but that's not what I am currently feeling.
dense plover
have you finished an allied race yet?
hollow dock
I feel I am leveling at a still faster pace than normal (having only had to do 2 and a half legion zones to get 110)
dense plover
gotten it to 110?
terse plank
You could just be killing things faster with superior gear AND still gaining the same XP boost. There's no reason to hurt yourself in this fashion.
tulip sun
Why do I only lag on my demon hunter
hollow dock
Mayhaps I am stingy because I dont have an infinite amount of gold to constantly spend on all my sets. Al the gold I make is towards getting the next month of gametime.
sharp bluff
I don’t use my heirlooms post 90 ( only upgraded them once) but up to 90 cloth for all is my idea
tulip sun
Like, not even doing anything lol. Just walking and trying to do a story mission
sharp bluff
I have all the heirloom armor though so idk
hollow dock
I always do. Otherwise I can't play the game (:
dense plover
i own all of the heirlooms that are purchasable
tulip sun
Vris
dense plover
one of each set is upgraded to 100
tulip sun
How
sharp bluff
Same Peach
hollow dock
So I stick with my cloth set.
dense plover
i dont even run raids
tulip sun
Gold is hard to get xD
hollow dock
I just run the cata raids. Makes 200k gold a month for me.
tulip sun
I still only get a few thousand at most a day
dense plover
if you craft the right version of the argus JC crown, you can charge 30-70k gold
sharp bluff
Mission table daily 200% success chance @tulip sun
tulip sun
I dont know anything about professions
hollow dock
I used to own the Obliterum market but sadly that's been botched.
sharp bluff
Do gold missions only
terse plank
I have like 500k just by selling junk I never needed on the AH
tulip sun
I have been trying to get all my alts to have their champs maxxed
But that is a tad difficult as well
terse plank
I'm not even trying to flip things or craft materials, just selling stuff
sharp bluff
I got the transmog Yak from mission table alone
hollow dock
If you have multiple 110s like me that are decently geared, have them run four of the six cata raids. its like 5-6k per character. Takes like a day or two to do for the ten characters I run them through.
meager warren
orly
torpid patio
sorry, i was busy finding the heirloom vendor, i bought the leather set for now, but i might get the cloth set too and upgrade it to 90-100 because i've never played a cloth class too
meager warren
cloth classes suck if you don't know how to play them
meager warren
topkek
tropic trail
cloth classes aren't that hard to learn as long as you aren't boosting
hollow dock
IMO the best cloth class is Arcane mage. In terms of leveling since mana regen is so fast at lower levels and you can just one shot stuff with a super charged arcane blast.
torpid patio
I think my future void elf & nightborn are both going to be a cloth class
thinking about mage and pries
priest
torpid patio
thats good to know, next char is a void elf mage
torpid patio
is it super strong or super wrong (lore wise?)
meager warren
super wrong all the way
terse patrol
@hollow dock I’m playing one while leveling 😛
because dps is a pain to get into dungeons with
hollow dock
Essentially Dek, Light and Shadow cannot touch or mix
so having a Void infused being using Light magic makes people cry
sharp bluff
Think holy forsaken, but worse
hollow dock
Except holy forsaken makes sense
terse patrol
^
sharp bluff
I mean pain wise
hollow dock
cuz masochism exists.
terse patrol
Alonsus Faol blessed be his name
hollow dock
but yea. the Void elves shouldnt be able to use Light magic at all. Which is the joke
hollow dock
Like the Lightforged being Shadow Priests.
terse patrol
I still wish they made Lightforged a bit more unique
gusty scaffold
But tbh. the whole priest subject is off hand. Shadow then holy etc.
terse patrol
Make Lightforged a bit rougher looking. Scars. Different, more aggressive stance/animations.
hollow dock
enter Voidform from casting Holy spells
monkAS
terse patrol
dat extra healing tho @hollow dock
torpid patio
i have to go, unfortunally, thanks for all the great help and have a good night
hollow dock
have a great night
meager warren
"cuz masochism exists"
which is why i want to see undead paladins
also, on that topic, it's kinda ironic that lightforged draenei and void elves are on the same faction since they should, lore wise, hate each other
hollow dock
technically speaking Edgy, Lightforged don't actually -hate- void themselves.
hollow dock
They aren't, but as seen in the Stormwind Church, they tolerate their existence. Doesn't mean they have to like it
sharp bluff
Ahh yes forsaken Paladins.... my dream since vanilla
meager warren
someone should make a rp featuring tolerance between LF draenei and void elves and potentially all the faction races as well
hollow dock
Im already doing that with some friends in my guild. Lightforged Goat Mage woman befriending a Void Elf Mage woman who saved her life. It's very fun to have these sort of interactions.
meager warren
"why would you save me?"
"What, are you offended?"
"Yes"
hollow dock
Basically
meager warren
topkek
hollow dock
Yea already covered. There's nothing specifically stating its Elune, but it very well could be. Though elune is noted -seperate- from the rest of the Loa.
meager warren
Is Elune nature-related?
uncut vault
if balance druids are any indication, yes
plus their name translates to moon devoted
hollow dock
She's both. The balance of it all and that junk. The only reason why Im on the fence is because of the ceremonial robes that we find in Legion that specifically denotes Elune differently to other Loa.
meager warren
what's the difference between a loa and other gods tho
serious question btw
hollow dock
Well loa is a more blanket term to anything the Trolls worship
They -can- be gods but they could also just be Ancients like the Celestials or Malorne.
Even the Wisps in Ashenvale are considered Loa to the Trolls
meager warren
wouldn't Elune be a loa then
hollow dock
Yea like I said. Loa is just a general term.
Honestly Im more excited atm for the implications the Uuna questline.
has.
meager warren
has?
hollow dock
Yea! Do you remember the Puzzlebox of Yogg-saron?
hollow dock
it's an archeology artifact that is credited with predicting Y'shaarj, N'zoths location, N'yalotha, etc.
It has this one line that is seemingly unconnected to anything until now. There is a little lamb lost in the dark woods.
I believe that line references Uuna. As the 'dark place' we go to is a small clearing. Surrounded by what appears to be black colored Teldrassil/Darkshore trees.
meager warren
is Uuna a lamb tho
rich apex
I will be -highly- impressed if they were thinking of Uuna that early
Isn't the puzzle box from Wrath?
meager warren
¯_(ツ)_/¯
hollow dock
I think its more coincidences than anything Hyper
rich apex
Oh XD
hollow dock
but you can't deny that this Puzzle Box has had a LOT of lines that link up nearly perfectly with future events
Y'shaarj in Pandaria, N'zoth in the sea, N'yalotha, and now Uuna.
rich apex
Also fair
uncut vault
I mean of all the kids in azeroth to call a little lamb
draenei kids are the most fitting
gusty scaffold
wait a min. who`s uuna? 😛
hollow dock
Uuna is a small child that you can save from the 'Many Faced Devourer'.
She was used in its creation and her souls not resting properly. So you can go ahead and save her.
For nothing but the satisfaction of putting a childs soul to rest and all that. It's real wholesome.
terse patrol
@Healiux#6332 might want to get her now
tropic trail
don't you get her spirit as a pet?
terse patrol
before Legion ends
hollow dock
A non-combat battle pet yes.
tulip sun
Where is this quest
hollow dock
Its completely unmarked.
You have to get Uuna's doll from the Many Faced Devourer rarespawn and do emotes at her.
Not sure how you guys ended up missing it. o= Wowhead released a guide and it was all over the Secrets discord a few months back.
tulip sun
Ya
gusty scaffold
I havent been active lately so I missed alot of things :p
gusty scaffold
If people whine alot it will stay. The only aspect i really mislike about blizzard. They shouldnt allow complaints about rare unique stuff to go trough
dense plover
its not rare though
it just takes time
the mage tower appearances are rare
they make sense as limited
secrets that just take time shouldnt be limited
that just punishes people who have limited gameplay time
gusty scaffold
Yeah but it takes a certain effort. I got limited playtime. I find it cool to see armors or something ive never seen before because u got them from a card game :p
They make em cool because not everone gets them
dense plover
the point of uuna isnt the reward though
its the journey
thats the cool part
if the cool part for you is that only some people have it, thats not good
gusty scaffold
But hey. Not gonna argue. I do see ur point about uuna. That last didnt serve the topic right
dense plover
a thing should be cool because of how it works or looks
like the riddler's mindworm
its a cool mount
but its not rare
and i dont think its going away either
gusty scaffold
True
Well. The most rare thing in my life atm is sleep. So im gonna farm that. Gn peeps
tulip sun
Realms down for anyone else?
heavy cairn
neither alpha nor live realms are down for me
tropic trail
why are worgen and velf doing bad things?
stray anchor
GREYMANE'S FORCES HELD THOSE WARDEN TOWERS. WE BROKE THEIR RANKS, SHOWED NO MERCY.
sharp bluff
Well I don’t see gnomes doing bad things
uncut vault
so far voldun is just horde doing more bad stuff
and vulpera being fine with it
though we dont have a lot of info
rich apex
broken laugh track
I mean
The Dark Irons summon a giant fireball
And use it to streamroll a hundred goblins in minutes
terse patrol
The Forsaken are also polymorphing tortured villagers into fish, just so they die of suffocation in the air.
but Sylvanas is just misunderstood guys
rich apex
terse patrol
Clearly this sadism is just the cost of war right
hollow dock
Clearly this is all required to win the war
The unforgiving slaughter of innocent civilians
dense plover
these are from mmo-champ, but they are too cool not to share
the second one is bad ass af
rich apex
'hello would you like to know more about our glorious tentacle god that definitely isn't n'zoth'
tulip sun
Guys
rich apex
'we are definitely not looking for a new sacrifice which ensures n'zoth's blessing to protect our ships at sea'
tulip sun
Why are you blaming the horrific ways the soldiers are killing civilians on Sylvanas?
It is not like she said give them terrible deaths
She just says kill them all
rich apex
in before N'zoth cultist infiltrators
tulip sun
These are orcs, trolls, etc., willingly doing this, not ordered to kill them brutally.
uncut vault
not pinning them to a wall, playing target practice, choking the life out of them slowly, or bombing children is a start
rich apex
Saurfang: we must fight our enemies with HONOR
saurfang: steps up to a human that's half his size and reduces his skull to jelly
hollow dock
Because war crimes are war crimes
General of the army, the one who gives the orders, is just as guilty as the soldiers
Sylvanas is a shitty person. She's a villain. She's evil. We're fine with that. People don't like the horde being painted as savage barbarians though. For whatever reason
uncut vault
tfw been the literal noble savage analogy for 20 years, "whaaa why are we so savage?"
rich apex
Admittedly, I'm a little salty that Blizz seems to forget the noble bit
And Thrall's entire arc that parallel's the redemption of the orcs
But
Then I remember it's a dumb video game
And also The Golden Rule
get it
golden
sudden oak
that gave me a headache
terse patrol
Issue is
Horde players keep asking for warmongering leaders because it “feels cool.”
But then they cry when the Horde starts wars
They need to embrace being the asshole faction, or start asking for Baine.
tropic trail
Baine would make a good warchief tbh
And I also don't see where you see people complain about a warmongering leader, everyone I know has lived Sylvanas thus far
baine hasn't done anything ever tho.
rich apex
Give him time
tropic trail
like the only notable thing I can think of off the top of my head is that he warned jaina about the attack on theramore and told her to evacuate
rich apex
Shiny new model
tropic trail
true, maybe he'll do something
tropic trail
I mean, the horde is kinda about orcs, "the horde" is an orc faction, the other races joined later
but yeah, kinda disappointed with the horde warfront armor, with sylv in charge they could've experimented with some cool forsaken armor styles, but instead we get spikes
tropic trail
yeah true
but with heritage armor for allied races and the warfronts being basically the human and orc equivalent, would be awesome to see racial armors for everyone
rich apex
Ion did say It Would Be Cool (TM)
wooden topaz
how to start a heated argument about allied races on the forums
say that horde are getting vulpera
restive axle
YES -
wooden topaz
or say alliance are getting vulpera
tropic trail
if they become an allied race, odds are they'll be horde, no matter how much I want them on alliance
restive axle
I'd love them to be horde qwq
sudden oak
since they are using the blight im quite sure they are horde aligned
uncut vault
give the conventional bodied one to horde, give alliance the monstrous race for once
tropic trail
but doesn't giving us kul tirans already do that?
uncut vault
I want alliance to have a fully monster race, not "oh btw i can be human any time I want lol"
kul tirans are bulky, but theyre certainly not monstrous
wooden topaz
what about draenai
rich apex
Sounds like they're the monstrous ones 😛
sudden oak
also if vulpera join the horde
sethrak are going to the alliance
sethrak are quite monstrous
tropic trail
I don't think sethrak will be playable, their heads are way too odly shaped, even by tauren standards
rich apex
I'm still iffy on Alliance sneks
Thematically and the lack of female models, etc
But who knows
Next alpha build could add something to suggest it more strongly
wooden topaz
I loved how alliance players when there was little data mined for them going to the horde area they said they were getting blood trolls
tropic trail
female snakes lol, what would that look like
rich apex
Not too different from male snakes, hopefully :|a
But
There'd still be a specific label in the files
Then again
tropic trail
that's my point, would be the first androgynous
rich apex
-Has- the base snek model been datamined?
I don'
Don't remember seeing it on the Wowhead posts
tropic trail
they hang out with the horde mostly I think
rich apex
Tortollan
tropic trail
or rather the trolls
restive axle
came across this
https://i.redd.it/s17yqd2hwte01.jpg
tropic trail
but I want to make ratchet in wow on alliance tho, stoopid jaina
restive axle
there are a lot of fan-pictures drawn with the sneks and alliance races
tropic trail
what if they threw a curve ball, and gave alliance an undead race as the vulpera counterpart? a faction of x race undead sent by bolvar to help his former faction
in the war to end all wars
restive axle
wherever the little foxies end up, definitely gonna make one :')
rich apex
I will laugh if Bolvar rejoined the Alliance
restive axle
i'd need to level an alli :'D
tropic trail
I doubt he would, but I also doubt he's forgotten all loyalty to them
just baseless speculation tho that probably doesn't belong in the spoiler channel
restive axle
xD
tropic trail
darkfallen are the vampire belves right?
uncut vault
ya
tropic trail
I wouldn't hate it, but I see them being too visually similar to velfs
any non-playable race that shares a skeleton with an existing race is the limit right now it seems tho, so anything is possible
rich apex
oh lawlz
oh man
so much salt
vampire
elves
Either faction, really. Endless salt.
uncut vault
deprive the alliance of yet another helf chance, deprive horde of their not-sylvanas elves
tropic trail
I've seen some requests for undead elves horde side
there's no way we get through BfA without another undead race on horde tho
restive axle
world of elf-craft much? O.o
tropic trail
we're going to have 3 races of humans soon, elves will only have 1 more playable race
tropic trail
what about banshee or something? would be unconventional, but would also be interesting
instead of just pale, red eyed belves
uncut vault
I mean, banshees could be a worgen/void elf style thing
undead elf race with the ability to go into their banshee form
sudden oak
something like the entropic embrace racial?
steel venture
uncut vault
rich apex
👌
sudden oak
I found this on the wow reddit and I love it https://i.imgur.com/QFE37Xb.jpg
tropic trail
looks incomplete, missing a pic for the naaru, and the draenei aren't up there as well
jk
just realized its about elves
uncut vault
texture also isnt applied but the mesh is amazing
uncut vault
tfw pyromancer actually puts out a good, solid theory
strange falcon
stray anchor
@uncut vault which vid Porter?
uncut vault
most recent one on the fifth old god in chronicles margins
hollow dock
No pyro theory is ever good imo
frigid umbra
How are the textures not applied? Do you know wow is a low poly game? Tou would not understand anything from just the mesh
You*
uncut vault
it doesnt have the intended texture, just a basic blue one
frigid umbra
No textures means the mesh is bright green... do you see any of that... sure texture might not be finished but its mostly there
uncut vault
so it looks odd
frigid umbra
You talking about the cape?
uncut vault
Yes
frigid umbra
Ooo i see my bad
stray anchor
It has a texture but it can be an incomplete/temp version
stray anchor
At some point in legion I found a cloak on which the transparency map didnt show up
stray anchor
so even though it was clearly supposed to be clipped, it looked horrid
stray grove
Guys what class do you think will be good for raid and m+ in bfa?
strange falcon
its alpha still we can't really say
cinder knoll
@P A W#1122 you should play what you like, never go with FOTM because you will be disappointed sooner or later
bad idea to have name with spaces 😄
strange falcon
I've played druid since tbc,flavor of the month only gets you so far before they nerf it 👌
uncut vault
good thing about druid is they always have at least one good spec
hollow dock
@stray grove There is no true absolute top dog these days. If legions any indication, all specs will be viable within a few percents of each other.
cinder knoll
I have heard that locks are now kind of FOTM, but basicly what you said applies, there are no huge differences, typically if you get a bit better gear, you will overcome that
uncut vault
locks are the same as every xpac, insane scaling
tulip torrent
ruby star
From what I've seen so far, Stormsong environment looks ❤ (Asmongolds stream, haven't got alpha)
tulip sun
It seems the horde is only in part of the zon
e
Naga and Quillboar are attacking the other sides
hollow dock
I gotta say. The shoulders and helmet look like the art team took our memes and made them reality.
plain vigil
There’s a fifth old god shown in chronicle prove me wrong
N’zoth has a twin prove me wrong
cinder knoll
why proof something not proven is wrong?
hollow dock
So what's this fifth old gods name then?
cinder knoll
he has no name, its just an image in Chronicle, Pyro found it
hollow dock
Any of you have a link to said image?
cinder knoll
there is an art and there are all 4 old gods... and suddenly also 1 additional creature which looks like it belongs there
will link you a video sec
hollow dock
can I get a timestamp?
cinder knoll
ye sec
from here he start to show all 5 on the image
Cthun, Yogg, Y'saarj, NZoth and that 5. which look similar to NZoth
hollow dock
That looks like one of the Ancient Ones.
Certainly not an old god. Blizzard wouldn't re-write what they -just- put to canon a few months ago.
cinder knoll
Ye its possible its just some high rated minion, anyway, its interesting that it made an appearance on an art with all other old gods and no other minions
definitely a creature of high significance
hollow dock
IMO it's either an ancient one or they just drew it in so the corners wouldn't be empty.
cinder knoll
in that case I would rather take Cthun from the middle and put him also into the corner, so you have 4 corners and 4 old gods, so rather the ancient one or maybe Nzoth have more forms?
I guess we must wait, but its interesting
hollow dock
I really wish he didn't do it clickbaity
cuz now we're going to have -everyone- come in here with misleading information
cinder knoll
ye he just makes his titles look clickbaity, but the theories and explanations actually make sense, its interesting, even if most of it isnt true
hollow dock
he didn't even say it as a theory or speculation
he just flat out said 'Yea that's an Old God prove me wrong'
cinder knoll
well, all he does are theories
his channel is full of that, so he probably takes it as a premise
hollow dock
Have you scrolled down to the comments? People are ignoring that chronicles already canonized 4 old gods hitting Azeroth.
cinder knoll
well this guy here just came with idea you know 😄
strange falcon
that's an old god in the corner...... change my mind meme
cinder knoll
and ye, some of his followeres are taking his theories too seriously
some even as a fact
but thats not Pyros fault to be honest
hollow dock
Yes the people could be more responsible, but he could take a little more care and say 'heres what I think is an Old God, what do you guys think?' like every other good lore talker out there
cinder knoll
Im kind of person who likes theories, but I dont like when people try to present them like a fact
ye thats the way he use, all the hype about his every theory etc, hes really passionate about them
not the standard lore talker
strange falcon
Nobbel is the stereotypical lore talkers,then you have the enthusiastic speculation talker,and the calm speculation talker
hollow dock
I never said average or stereotypical. I said good.
cinder knoll
I think he didnt meant it offensively
terse patrol
@hollow dock I talk to him occasionally. He gets excited about his theories, but I don’t think he comes about it from a place of superiority.
hollow dock
I never said he did.
I just wish he would better emphasize rather than let people believe his word is gospel.
cinder knoll
I think this is up to people, if they look at the theorycrafter videos and suddenly start to think its no longer theories... its not the theorycrafters fault, he just wants to make good videos, to entertain people
hollow dock
It is when they dont say its a theory
cinder knoll
cmon, everyone who watches Pyro more than once knows everything he says are theories
hollow dock
That's not the point Max.
New people comign in and seeing it hear him just say 'Yea thats a fifth old god'
and then spread that
cinder knoll
you are right about this
terse patrol
I personally think there’s a fifth Old God, but I don’t think it’s G’huun. I’m still on the Xal’atath bandwagon, though I could very well be wrong.
hollow dock
and that's fine. I personally don't think there's a fifth natural old god because of what they just put into Chronicle. Even though Blizzard was known to rewrite lore, Chronicles was made -specifically- to stop that.
hollow dock
The five torches -Light their path-
Because Chronicles volume 1 specifically states 4 old gods arrived on Azeroth
cinder knoll
why not four? the fact that door has 5 locks doesnt mean there must be 5 treasures behind
hollow dock
Not 5.
terse patrol
Torches are made of wood, I personally think there’s five world trees, and the final one sunk with the Sundering.
hollow dock
The 5 keys/torches is most likely the 5 artifacts we get.
The tears of elune
The eye of aman'thul
The hammer of Khazgaroth
The shield
cinder knoll
Im with Vris on this one
terse patrol
Eh, we’ll see. I almost feel like the artifacts were a red herring.
hollow dock
Considering it lit the path to another sundering of Azeroth
which is what's enabled N'zoth to free himself from his prison
which if you remember from Xalatath, as we head into ToS, he's nearly free
cinder knoll
yeah thats what I was telling long time 😃
terse patrol
I think they five keys are the Dragon Aspects.
hollow dock
How do you think this?
terse patrol
The lord of ravens turning they key. Odyn never liked the Dragon Aspects being created.
terse patrol
Let me explain.
hollow dock
Then type it all out don't just say bits and bobs
terse patrol
Alright, fine.
So, in short. I think the creation of the dragon aspects had a dual purpose. Yes, they govern spheres of influence. But I think they also serve as parts of the prison system of the Old Gods. Each world tree except Teldrassil received the blessings of all five aspects. I think each tree that is destroyed loosens the chains on the old gods. As we stand, Malygos, Neltharion, and Ysera are dead. Nozdormu is likely soon to become Murozond. That means all that’s left is Alextrasza. Notice how during the End Times raid, the old gods have Deathwing impale himself on Wyrmsrest Temple. That wasn’t out of spite. That was because he was the last thing standing in their way from true release, now that the rest of the Aspects were dead. Thirdly, Odyn disagreed with the Aspects creation entirely. Now that he is free from the Halls of Valor, I think he’ll take his position back as Prime Designate, and upon learning of how every single Dragon Aspect save Alextrasza went insane, or will go insane, I think Odyn will “turn the key”, by killing Alextrasza in the hopes of pre-empting her (in his mind) inevitable fall to madness.
@hollow dock
hollow dock
My first issue is that only 2 of the 5 world trees were ever actually blessed.
dense plover
^
hollow dock
Secondly, Deathwing's impaling is described in the books. But his twilight dragons are free to roam. Neltharion is a tool, a means to an end. As I see it, and as its described, all the non-void creations must die.
dense plover
most of them were placed by fandral staghelm
and led to the emerald nightmare
the one in grizzly hills and the one in crystal song are the two biggest failures
hollow dock
Odyn didn't like the idea of leaving Azeroth's protection to the dragons. He didn't believe they were up to it or deserved it.
In which, Alexstrasza no longer is an aspect.
None of the aspects are.
terse patrol
Just because they lost their power, doesn’t mean their existence doesn’t still serve a purpose.
hollow dock
Theyre just normal dragons with only a shimmer of the titans power. She doesn't hold any more relevance as she sacrificed it to destroy deathwing.
In which this would mean Kalecgos is still relevant Honk
since he was the new Aspect of Magic
and Thrall
since he was the stand in of the aspect of earth
plain vigil
@hollow dock i can link the image
terse patrol
anyways
plain vigil
Sorry i’m juggling this discussion on 5 disc atm 😂
hollow dock
In which, since there are no more aspects, because mind you
The Aspects were -not- titan creation
they were empowered by the titans. Not created.
terse patrol
There’s a reason the Red Dragonflight has some focus in BFA imo, and Odyn’s back as well. I sincerely doubt the lord of ravens is Khadgar.
hollow dock
The reason is because the reds had a powerful red dragon.
that was dead.
and deathknights wanted it
that's the only reason they're even referenced
plain vigil
5 keys are the 5 old gods :3
hollow dock
I personally believe the Lord of ravens is Illidan.
plain vigil
Illidad is a hawk not a raven
And sargeras is an eagle
In Norse mythology, Veðrfölnir (Old Norse "storm pale," "wind bleached", or "wind-witherer") is a hawk sitting between the eyes of an unnamed eagle that is perched on top of the world tree Yggdrasil. Veðrfölnir is sometimes modernly anglicized as Vedrfolnir, Vedfolnir or Vethrfolnir.
hollow dock
Ravens have been used to symbolize Light and Dark in our mythology. The good and the evil. The anti-hero essentially.
plain vigil
The hawk watches over the gods and is named closely to stormrage
In literature the raven is the embodiment of death
My theory is the key turning will be an entrance to the shadowlands
hollow dock
In Literature yes. In Mythology, not so much. Crows have been the embodiment of death, but Ravens have been both.
We can already enter the shadowlands Gand
terse patrol
odyn keeps pet ravens
hollow dock
Helheim is apart of the Shadowlands.
hollow dock
Helheim is open perminately. When we die
plain vigil
Only the areas controlled by hel
terse patrol
Odyn sees into the Shadowlands after sacrificing his eye.
terse patrol
If you can’t see that Odyn’s going to be really relevant next expansion idk what to tell ya
hollow dock
I never said he won't
plain vigil
Yes and dk’s have two quests in the shadowlands, but we’ve barely scratched the surface
hollow dock
There's nothing -to- the shadowlands. It's literally a greyscale version of Azeroth
Instead of the living, it has the dead wandering about
terse patrol
actually no
The Spirit Healer you meet in Legion says that the greyscale world is only CLOSE to the Shadowlands.
hollow dock
The Shadowlands (also called spirit world,[1][2][3] Shadow Lands,[4] ghost world,[5] spirit realm,[6] astral realm,[7] world of spirits,[8] world of spirit,[9] Other Side[10] spirit void[11] and underworld[12]) is the place where the spirits of some creatures go when they die,[13] and are nightmarish realms of decay between life and death.
plain vigil
No you’re wrong... the shadowlands is equal to the emerald dream, and those are trapped souls. The true dead just sease to exist
plain vigil
That’s from pre chronicle 3 text...
terse patrol
Stop ignoring the Uuna questline
In game trumps old lore.
The greyscale world is simply a limbo state between life and the Shadowlands.
hollow dock
In World of Warcraft, the Shadowlands is identical to the material plane, with the only difference that in the Shadowlands the character can only be seen by other spirits.[13] The Spirit of Tony Two-Tusk describes the Shadowlands as all grey and dark, swirling clouds. While Uuna was in the Shadowlands,[15] she described it as dark and she was unable to see anything, though she could hear people interacting with her in the physical world. From within the Shadowlands she could see the light of the naaru A'dal who was in the physical world, but it was so bright that it scared her. The moonlight at Lake Falathim allowed her to see a friend in the physical world.
Stop ignoring lore.
terse patrol
Spirit Healers guide spirits to the Shadowlands.
plain vigil
Chronicle 2 and 3 set the emerald dream as equadisten to the shadowlands. The shadowlands is a realm that living creatures can visit. It’s not just greyscale wow...
terse patrol
No. Play the Uuna scenario.
hollow dock
I did
terse patrol
You clearly didn’t.
hollow dock
It's a different part of the Shadowlands.
terse patrol
If you did, you’d remember what the Spirit Healer said.
plain vigil
Again... Chronicle 3 guys....
hollow dock
But this is what the realm is.
hollow dock
The shadowlands is identical to the material plane.
N'zoth is on Azeroth
in a titan prison
plain vigil
No N’zoth’s twin is on Azeroth, free...
hollow dock
We dont know what that is
plain vigil
Not even joking
terse patrol
hollow dock
Yes I theroize those are the dark woods.
the same dark woods the Puzzle Box references. A part of the shadowlands.
plain vigil
Basically in HP Lovecraft’s books, The Shub-Niggurath births two twins. Nug and Yeb... Nug Birthed Cthulu. They are both described as black and red. They’re connected to two egyptian gods, one represents sky/space and the other earth/underworld. According to the lore, yeb would be the one involved with earth and the underworld, while nug, or n’zoth would be involved with pretty much the void. Nug is a god among ghouls, and chron3 describes nzoth to be amoung unnamed horrors... nug and Yeb were meant to prepair the way for the old ones, in wow’s case N’zoth and his twin preparing for the void lords arrival. Just a lot of connections. Not to mention their similarities in appearance to the emerald nightmare and the new drustivar and blood troll bfa zones... (red, black, tentacles) also it’s worth mentioning that they have shrines throughout the oceans. Thus i would say a connection to the relationship between n’zoth and the naga. (Gmorning)
Here you go vris
cinder knoll
but that doesnt prove anything man
cinder knoll
that can just suggest what COULD be... but it doesnt have to be
hollow dock
To you.
cinder knoll
@plain vigil
plain vigil
You didnt even read it lmao
hollow dock
We did.
plain vigil
When?
cinder knoll
ofc I read it, I already did when you posted it on Pyro discord and I replied you... arent you a golden fish?
hollow dock
I just did.
cinder knoll
its cool ye, but you cant take it as a fact
hollow dock
I'm a very fast reader
here lemme disect it
First off, yes the Old Gods have their origins within Lovecraftian mythos
plain vigil
Do it please
hollow dock
But, they are not direct parallels
plain vigil
I’m here to be disected
hollow dock
This text block is stating they are direct parallels
which isn't true
Secondly
The Old Gods are not here to prepare for the Void Lords. None of them are.
The Old Gods purpose is to corrupt planets and hope to get a Titan Soul
plain vigil
For the void lords...
plain vigil
Btw you know cata was litterally n’zoth trying to make a rift to escape the shadowlands right?
hollow dock
they are incapable of doing so
plain vigil
I agree the part about prepping the arrival wasnt very connonicle
hollow dock
N'zoth was trying to free all the old gods and break open Azeroth. not make a rift.
plain vigil
No
hollow dock
The whole point of Hour of Twilight was kill everything so they could rise up from the ashes.
hollow dock
That's the whole plan
plain vigil
He literally made a rift to allow the elemental lords and himself out
It’s stated in chronicle 3
plain vigil
Correct
hollow dock
but somehow the elemental lords
that are summoned from the elemental planes
went into the shadowlands
Right
plain vigil
Because we used the dragons oul to kill deathwing
No, they didnt go into the shadowlands lmao
hollow dock
You just said he did it so they could escape.
plain vigil
They were let out of their little elemental pocket dimensions
hollow dock
They could already get summoned out. Deathwing summons Ragnaros and creates a portal-keep to the Firelands.
hollow dock
When they were summoned out they had free will what
Look at what Ragnaros did to the Dark Iron Dwarves
hollow dock
He was bound to the plane of fire. Which he still -is- in cata.
Hence why he got sent back there and had to be killed there
plain vigil
It’s like summoning a demon into a pentagram. They are confined to that space only
Correct that’s my point
The fissure was supposed to open the elemental plains
And it was sucessful
But the shadowlands wasnt opened up well enough
hollow dock
So then if they were free of the elemental planes
plain vigil
Hense the skybox in the shaman order hall
hollow dock
Why did Ragnaros not appear anywhere?
If hecould roam freely out of the planes, wouldn't he I dunno
plain vigil
Because he knew he was “safe “ in his throne
hollow dock
be burning down hyjal?
hollow dock
and what about the other elemental lords? Why had they never left the planes knowing if they got killed there, they're dead for good?
Why would they sit in the one place theyre weakest?
plain vigil
They were just as trapped, and they were strongest in their plane, not weakest
plain vigil
Hense why neptulon can roam free now in legion
N’zoth tried to free himself, it didnt work well enough, but he continues his plan using the elemental lords...
The wind and fire lords to be exact
So no, n’zoth is not on our plane of azeroth
And in response to parallels between the twins and n’zoth and the new guy? Well, the black goat on azeroth, Xavus, was directly influenced by N’zoth, meaning N’zoth has similarities to the mother of Nug. Not to mention Nug represents sky/space, and if N’zoth dwells in the shadowlands, that can be seen as sky/space/void. He’s the Old god of void. And then you have the twin Yeb, who is the old god of earth/ the underworld, which fits with N’zoth. So there’s two options, N’zoth could be seperated to a physical body, and a shadowland body, kinda like how onyxia split varian. Or N’zoth has a twin, or similar sibling that is of the earth and has influence in kul tiras. One is influencing the events of the drust, while the other is influencing the events of the sea priests...
Also, from the WC2 cover , of which this expansion get’s it’a name, the battle continues on land, on sea, then on air.
Air being the shadowlands, thus N’zoth
@hollow dock dissect this if you wouldn’t mind.
It also could be said that if wow does run on dualities, illidad and momfurion are the twins born of light. So having two twins of the void would make sense? No?
dense plover
To be clear
They were trapped
Then they were freed
But only rag and al akir went after the mortals at the old gods behest
Therazane just wanted to protect deep holm after deathwing almost destroyed it
And neptulon was busy dealing with the naga
Air is not the shadowlands
The shadowlands is the undeath version of the emerald dream
It is an alternate plane
The plane of air already exists
It’s a dungeon and raid above uldum
sharp bluff
Don’t the monks visit the air plane? To get the dps artifact?
hollow dock
Alrightlets get to disecting.
The Black Goat was another name for the Great Old One that Y'shaarj is based off of and is infact referenced to be Y'shaarj through the Puzzle Box of Yogg-saron. Have you had the dream again? The black goat with seven eyes watches from outside
All the old gods are of the Void. They are born of it. The Old Gods themselves do not actually hold any reigns, it's just their preference for corruption. N'zoth is about mental anguish (Deathwing, Azshara, etc) Y'shaarj is about emotional Anguish (The Sha, Pandaren, Mogu, Mantid etc) C'thun actually hasnt been touched enough to see what he prefers to corrupt and Yogg-saron is about physical anguish (Saronite, the Saronite Mines, touch makes one go insane etc.) If anything, Yogg-saron peers through timelines and is just about everywhere.
Secondly, the Sea Priests. N'zoth wouldn't attack itself. They did so during the Black Empire but now they'd see each other as distractions, not open war targets. The sea priests worship something similar to N'zoth but isn't actually N'zoth. It looks lovecraftian in nature like the Old Gods, but it also somewhat resembles those ancient snail-like creatures from Vash'jir.
All the Old Gods are seperate from their physical bodies. They exist in many different parts, failsafes if you will, to continue their corruption. Yogg-saron wasn't pushed back successfully until we destroyed its mind and forced it back that way. C'thun wasn't pushed back until the shell that erupted was defeated. Y'shaarj was finally killed when his heart was exausted. So on so fourth.
Malfurion and Illidan were not twins born of Light. They weren't even twins. They were brothers. Illidan's birth was special, solely because he was blessed with golden eyes. Nothing about the Light there other than his eyes, which many others had but had great destinies to attain. Malfurion was born without these features.
@plain vigil
plain vigil
@dense plover shadowlands are litterally right next to air on the cosmology map.
hollow dock
@terse patrol
I have heard the cries of the child you speak of. I shall mark you, that you may pass into this realm and seek her out. She resides in a place where the barrier between the realms of life and death are thin, and spill over into your world. Be warned, you have no power in this place, it's denizens cannot be harmed by mortals. Try as you might, you may not be able to aid your friend.
No where does it state that the place we go to when we die -isnt- the shadowlands.
And the cosmology map is not a direct representation of the ordering of the universe Gandem
it's just a picture to show us everything
plain vigil
Vris you litterally said the seapriests worship something similar, but different to n'zoth, which was my whole point, that they worship the 5th old god, not n'zoth
hollow dock
There is no where stating that
We know its not N'zoth they're worshiping as N'zoth is assaulting the temple
but
plain vigil
" The sea priests worship something similar to N'zoth but isn't actually N'zoth. It looks lovecraftian in nature like the Old Gods, but it also somewhat resembles those ancient snail-like creatures from Vash'jir. " from you
hollow dock
Yes. Because thats canon fact.
they don't worship n'zoth. That is a hard canon fact. N'zoth isn't attacking his own Worshipers.
plain vigil
"One is influencing the events of the drust, while the other is influencing the events of the sea priests..." from me
Right i agree with you XD
hollow dock
ASSUMING theres 2 N'zoths
plain vigil
my point is that the 5th old god is what the sea priests worship
cinder knoll
IF it is an old god
hollow dock
Except that there's no basis to that statement
^
As again, G'huun is called an Old God but we know it isn't. It has the same characteristics of an old god but isn't one.
plain vigil
uhhmy basis is chronicle cover art... and the similarities between n/zoth and nug*
hollow dock
Art. An interpretation of an interpretation.
plain vigil
So would you then say that the cosmology map isnt cannonicle because it's art? XD
hollow dock
Yes
that's all we've ever said
Because also according to that -same map-
Disorder
is next to light
and order is next to shadow
plain vigil
the map is the cycle of life
hollow dock
That makes zero sense.
It doesn't move in a cycle
Life happens and then death follows.
Light and Shadow are at odds. Never actually moving over one or another.
plain vigil
Starts as nothingness, things are created and ordered, those things lead to life, then religion, then wars over those religions, thus chaos, then death, then back to nothingness....
hollow dock
You're not putting our real world stuff onto a piece of art. this is the issue with an interpretation. It's just that. An interpretation.
plain vigil
the idea is that it's a repeating cycle.... thgat's happened mannnny times aaccordeing to the void lorda and old gods. those "whispers" are memories of the past, not visions of the future...
hollow dock
In which how do you know the cycle isn't going backwards?
plain vigil
the cycle repeastes over and over again, it's in cannon, it's in game, and it's uin chronicle
plain vigil
no, its cannon XD
hollow dock
Show me in chronicles where it says this cosmology map is a representation of the cycle.
and that it goes in the exact order you just said.
Because Fel is suddenly apart of religion but Light isn't.
cinder knoll
also religion doesnt really have anything to do with Light...
plain vigil
explain what the light is then?
stray anchor
more like creation -> destruction?
plain vigil
@cinder knoll
hollow dock
Light is a force in the universe that combats the Shadow
that's it
that's all it is
We built a religion -around- it
cinder knoll
well, Light is a force... problem is with religion, it tries to explain Light with some stories and "Gods"
plain vigil
what's the leading cause of wars?
cinder knoll
but in the end, everything is just some creature or force
plain vigil
in azeroth and the world...
plain vigil
and what is that racism based off of?
hollow dock
Greed.
plain vigil
no
plain vigil
divine supremacy, the idea that your god made you to be better than the rest....
hollow dock
Except that's not what the Light is
nor is why there's a galactic war in the firstplace
plain vigil
the light is a force
cinder knoll
what Draenei have is not religion, yet they are very light sensitive and cooperate with Naaru
hollow dock
^
plain vigil
worshiped in different ways by many cultures
cinder knoll
and thats the reason why they dont need religion, they know Naaru and how things work
cinder knoll
religion is a stupid explanation of something you dont understand
plain vigil
draenai are not of azeroth though, they are mono cultured
hollow dock
none of them war.
The draenei do not fight the Legion because they think their religion is superior
they war with the Legion to -save the universe-
We do not fight the horde because we think we're better, we do it for -survival-
plain vigil
lol exactly you think the dezidens of azeroth understand the light?from what we saw on argus they obviously dont...
the drenai fight for survival
the legion gives the guise of superiority
hollow dock
They fought to save the universe. They ran for survival.
cinder knoll
Just remember what happened when Velen suggested that Elune could be a Naaru, some creature, Tyrande went nuts because it would ruin their religion about a Goddes
plain vigil
its the very reason why kiljaden join, they wanted divine superiority...
hollow dock
It doesn't. It's not even a religious base group
its a MILITARY.
Kil'jaeden and Archimonde joined for POWER
not RELIGION
plain vigil
divine power.... fel power.... a power greater than what they previosuly knew... they wanted to be divine.
they wante to rule over all
plain vigil
thus divinity
hollow dock
that's G R E E D
Wanting to do anything is G R E E D. It has nothing to do with religious beliefs
plain vigil
greed is a part of it... but it was the need to be more powerful than others...
plain vigil
they wanted to be the best, the most divine
stray anchor
Hunger for power
plain vigil
empowerd by sargeras himself
hollow dock
it does not state this ANYWHERE. WHERE are you getting this?
plain vigil
the argus campaigne...
hollow dock
I am stating what has already been stated in the canon multiple times. Archimonde and Kil'jaeden joined hte Burning Legion for MORE POWER. Because they were PROMMISED SO MUCH POWER.
plain vigil
when they discuss why and how archimonde and kiljaiden accepted the fel
hollow dock
NOT to out do Velen or the Light
stray anchor
So are the old gods divinely powerful in that sense?
(I disagree that power = divinity)
plain vigil
what @stray anchor XD
hollow dock
Like. Apply this thought process to the rest of Warcraft then Gandem
Did the orcs want divine power over everything?
Did the Shivarra? The doomguards?
How about Illidan? Did he want Divine power?
stray anchor
"I. AM. A. GOD." <- elf from Magister's Terrace as he embraces fel magic for power. Power doesn't mean divinity, it just means might.
plain vigil
no, the orcs wanted survival. they were also cursed with bloodlust.
cinder knoll
also, you are missing the point of what divine power is...
hollow dock
Because in each instance it is 'HUNGER AND GREED FOR POWER'
cinder knoll
plain vigil
illidan literally wanted to not be divine
hollow dock
So then
Why would he join Sargeras? If he didn't want divine power?
He was promised the exact same things as Archimonde and kil'jaeden
stray anchor
Cross out divine from that question
hollow dock
and accepted it faking for those reasons
stray anchor
He wanted power
plain vigil
because the light was trying to make him divine, and thus a war tool
hollow dock
Yes
LATER
IN LEGION
TEN THOUSAND YEARS LATER
Also maxi don't use wowwiki
it is horribly out of date.
plain vigil
litterally the whole point of this theory is that because sargeras saw the past atemps at azeroth, and the titan's constant loss, he created the burning legion SO illidad wouldnt become the divine power of light, thus braking the cycle and putting balance to the world.
look at the whyspers./ they talk of things as if they've happened before... because they have
plain vigil
nothing is 100% love
hollow dock
He made the burning legion CANONICALLY because of the VOID LORDS.
that is 100% fact
He wanted to wipe out the universe to prevent it from being claimed by the Void Lords.
plain vigil
-_- you're litterally stating my points an d saying im wrong
THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY
hollow dock
: litterally the whole point of this theory is that because sargeras saw the past atemps at azeroth, and the titan's constant loss, he created the burning legion SO illidad wouldnt become the divine power of light, thus braking the cycle and putting balance to the world.
what you have stated here
is wrong
he did not create the burning legion for these reasons
The titans did not constantly lose.
plain vigil
in the past cycles of the universe the vpoid always wins... he created the burning legion to attempt at stopping it
hollow dock
He had 0 knowledge of the Light's doings. He had only known of the Void and the horrors in it
Again Gandem, there's nothing stating that
plain vigil
why do you think we always seem to win? why dont the heroes of azeroth ever fail? we have... and the universe has reset everytime
hollow dock
because this universe hasn't actually 'completed' a cycle that we know of
Because we have something called PLOT ARMOR
plain vigil
but it has, the old gods state that....
hollow dock
we -can't- lose because if we ever lose, we dont have a game
strange falcon
PLOT ARMOR WOOOOOOOOO
hollow dock
I garuntee if this universe was solely existing in book or comic form
plain vigil
we have lost thats my point
hollow dock
We'd be losing -at all-.
Like in Marvel or DC. Where universes are constantly wiped out and created over and over and over again.
plain vigil
it's like the matirix
the ending
you see how many times neo has failed
until eventually he gets it right
hollow dock
That's not how Matrix ends.
strange falcon
you can see how many times you have failed in bioshock infinite's opening too 😄
hollow dock
that's not even how their cycle ends.
dense plover
vris
dont argue with this person
just block and move on
also
there are only 4
hollow dock
Pyro stated theres 5 because of the art in Vol 3.
Since there's an unknown tentacly being in the top corner.
dense plover
according to several interviews and the blizzcon announcement ghuun is an experiment gone wrong
and the art is just that
hollow dock
so its got everyone in a fizz.
dense plover
art
lemme guess
you got this "idea" from the same youtuber who said argus is the titan of death right?
just a wild guess
hollow dock
Yes that's Pyro.
dense plover
we should have that pinned
plain vigil
this is waht i'm talking about
hollow dock
He showed the art in Vol 3 right Peach
dense plover
yeah
hollow dock
and in the top corner, there's a new tentacly and he openly stated 'thats a fifth old god'
and now everyones believin him
dense plover
Pyro is a lore noob, he makes inferences as fact and bases his "knowledge" on art and other nothings
plain vigil
peach blocking doesnt solve anything XD we can have a stable oconvo without having later issues
dense plover
everything he says is wrong
arguing anything by agreeing with pyro's predictions is factually wrong
pyro is wrong
strange falcon
m8,arguing with preach is worse
plain vigil
lol
dense plover
he doesnt make predictions he makes clickbait that seriously hinders the lore community
look
if you want lore
listen to nobbel
plain vigil
this isnt even an argument about pyro
dense plover
he is the only large youtuber with credibility
pyro has negative credibility
its the source of the argument
plain vigil
we know 100% that ther e IS a 5th old god, and it's either g'huun or another unseen one
dense plover
your knowledge is based on his bullshit
cinder knoll
oh god 😄
hollow dock
Ghuun isn't a true old god.
dense plover
no
cinder knoll
we know for 100% that there is a tentacly creature on the art with 4 other old gods, THATS ALL WE KNOW
hollow dock
Chronicles vol 1 specifically states that 4(four) landed on Azeroth
dense plover
there is no 5th old god
rustic mountain
@hollow dock you still have a Santa hat on your image, does that not bother you every time you see your avatar image? 😅
plain vigil
man the wow lore community is just as toxic as christian demoniations at this point XD
hollow dock
I use IRC mode
dense plover
you are saying art = fact
the lore community is fine
as long as bullshit isnt stated as fact
plain vigil
art in a book of lore = fact yess....
dense plover
then we get hostile
hollow dock
Art isn't fact or truth
dense plover
because people who state lore as fact are stubborn as mules
hollow dock
it's expression. Interpretation.
dense plover
art isnt fact
hollow dock
That isn't truth.
plain vigil
mr peach speculation isnt stating facts...
cinder knoll
ye but you have no description what is on that art...
dense plover
the art interpretations are literally specified as not fact
plain vigil
speculation is for fun
hollow dock
Fine speculate
dense plover
it was stated by a dev
hollow dock
but dont state it as fact.
dense plover
^
you said and i quote "we know for a fact there is a fifth old god"
when we know for a fact there are only 4
plain vigil
it may appear as if i'm stating facts, but it's all speculatiuon. yall should know that by now
hollow dock
We don't.
rustic mountain
I thought there was only 4?
dense plover
there are only 4
hollow dock
Exactly Bow. there is only 4.
dense plover
factually
hollow dock
The '5th' is 100% speculated.
plain vigil
and yes we do know there is a 5th old god, it's stated in bfa questingh
dense plover
ghuun is stated as an old god in cutscenes