I'm now a warlock main, but unfortunately missed the supposed golden age during mop
#beta-ptr-spoilers
tropic trail
hollow dock
Warlocks were dumb in Pandaria
tropic trail
feels bad
meager warren
Warlocks are dumb now.
meager warren
they're one of the best classes in pvp, how aren't they
hollow dock
They dont have access to Dark Soul. Arguably the strongest CD Warlocks have ever had.
meager warren
they're OP as shit
hollow dock
They were far worse in MoP
meager warren
still pretty bad
hollow dock
Like, far more OP in MoP
hollow dock
indeed. Im tellin ya theyre no where near as dumb as back then
tropic trail
isn't it really only aff that's strong in pvp right now? I don't pvp at all
hollow dock
You couldn't kill a warlock, any warlock spec, back then
meager warren
and i'm tellin' ya they're still dumb now, regardless
hollow dock
Chaos bolt in destroy would 1-2 shot you
meager warren
hot
hollow dock
and it had a DOT that always crit when it ticked
meager warren
u mad that you never played Warlock in mop?
hollow dock
No I played the shit out of my lock back then
meager warren
ok.
u mad that you found it too easy?
hollow dock
Nope.
meager warren
;-;
hollow dock
They were literally the best at everything back then
They could kite better than hunters
heal better than healers
tank better than tanks
They were the PVP gods
tropic trail
I hear they could tank some dungeons
hollow dock
if you saw a grevious warlock in any PVP setting
meager warren
but could they out-murloc the murlocs?
hollow dock
you ran
meager warren
only to get sniped
hollow dock
Only to die tired yes
tropic trail
I wonder if BfA demo is going to play
meager warren
you tellin' me the warlocks couldn't snipe?
also, which is better nowadays, warlock or shadow priest?
hollow dock
go warlock then
tropic trail
isn't aff pretty good in both rn?
meager warren
ok
hollow dock
Affliction specifically
DOT people, run around, be annoying, CC people.
Launch all your stacked up stuff at one person
rinse repeat
tropic trail
can you still dot training dummies in enemy cities and become unkillable?
hollow dock
Fairly certain that bugs been fixed
meager warren
i saw an image on reddit in which a nub undead lvl 10 was tanking hits from a dozen or so max-lvls at the time. Maybe about lvl 60?
And the undead was stuck at 1 health and wasn't dying.
No wonder they call them undead
river rapids
The reason to play a boomkin Zandi is stated right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYrHM-uAzC0&feature=youtu.be&t=1m37s
meager warren
cute
jade basalt
She also has some great arguments. Such as "look at that butt", "it's not a bear", and "this looks like a penis".
meager warren
none of that is "good."
It's just opinionated nonsense
uncut totem
long wyvern
Keep in mind that it's just an opinion from one person, she ofcourse followed by alot of people. Some disagreee on that and some agree. I've watched it as well and have to agree on her with the moonkin form, it's more like an arakkoa and balance is based on lunar etc. (so an owl makes sence). But could people allaborate why these forms are fitting for zandalari trolls, maybe something with their lore? I'm with travel and flying form 😄
jade basalt
The druid forms so far have been dictated by the night elves and their culture, because they're basically a decade old now. It's why everybody gets bear and cats and owls. Now, it still makes some sense for tauren and worgen to share similar forms with night elves, because they were both taught druidism by night elves.
But not Zandalari. Zandalari have their own [druidic] culture, they were taught "druidism" by the raptor Loa Gonk, have been druids for a long while now, and they have their own Loa (equivalent of the night elves' Ancients if you want), dinosaur Loa to be more specific.
It wouldn't make any sense for a Zandalari to turn into a friggen owl or bear, that's why they get a pterrordax flight form for example, likely because of the loa Pa'ku.
One could make a similar argument for Darkspear, though even if they were technically taught by Gonk, it was only 4 years ago, and they were also influenced by the Cenarion Circle, but they do already get a bat flight form. One could also imagine Blizzard might want to go back and tailor the existing druids' forms to be more racial-themed.
Also it's technically not an arakkoa, it uses the arakkoa model/skeleton but it's more of a feathered dinosaur hybrid thing. Like how the Guardian form is more of an ankylosaurus/turtle hybrid thing.
So yeah, they get forms appropriate for their culture and instead of being happy about it, people are trashing Blizzard.
At worst people could see that as a first step : maybe Blizzard will do something for other races too, I mean they already updated druid forms 3-4 times so it's not like they don't get love either.
tropic trail
If only they had their own tree form.. sigh
long wyvern
@jade basalt Thanks for the explanation! Makes sense! I like the models very much, however it felt weird because of the other druid forms.
jade basalt
We just have to wait for the Feral one now !
tropic trail
People should atleast give props to Blizzard though for making their forms a bit more unique, rather than having the normal cat, bear, and boomchicken with a different color
jade basalt
Agreed. Though it does feel weird that Highmountain tauren Moonkin form didn't even get antlers, meanwhile Zandalari get brand new forms. All the other forms have antlers !
tropic trail
And a fockin MOOSE form
jade basalt
I believe it's just a function of them needing to ship the first 4 allied races rapidly, which is why they seem so half-done. They could have put more work into them.
Looking at you, Nightborne.
Meanwhile they had all the time in the world to work on Zandalari & future allied races, which is why they seem to have gotten so much love.
tropic trail
But sure, people can their collective dumps on the forms and say that they look like the abused pet you left out in the woods because you though they were dead when you were young (because they do, but that's not the point). Sure, The H-Tauren may have not gotten that much of a change, but it still follows the design of the original tauren which makes sense.
And the whole loved bit, well, it could also be because theyre the more unique race coming into the new expansion
jade basalt
Yes, something that people forget is that Allied Races are the main (racial) feature of the expansion, so Blizzard should make them awesome and put work into them. The people being mad at Zandalari getting new forms thus make even less sense for that reason. Imagine if people back during Cataclysm said "no Blizzard, Worgen should be less unique, don't work on them too much ! In fact, don't give them a new unique Worgen form, just re-color the old one !", it would've been weird.
steel venture
The only reason Highmountain Tauren didn't get special cat and bear forms is because both bears and large cats live in highmountain.
It's similar enough for Blizzard to just modify the existing models for "Guardian" form and "Feral" form.
tropic trail
Agreed. But also think back to the architecture of the Nightborne and the highmountain, their stuff is basically copy and pasted from other places and recolored and touched up to make it distinctively different from where they pick it off from, whilst with Zandalari, you can easily use the whole "City of Gold" and the Mayan inspirations and dark iron live in a heckin volcano, easily to make them stand out, to make them the outliers of the races
steel venture
But they are literally changing how the forms are labled, due to Zandalari and possible other future druids.
jade basalt
And that's good. Like, "Flight" form can be either an owl, an eagle or a bat, nobody bats an eye. "Balance" form is not an owlbear, everybody loses their mind.
tropic trail
(Hopefully that pun was not intended) But it's good to see their flight form is a pterodactyl based product
Anyways, I'm heading off for the night, got a long day ahead of me, ciao~
it's a little odd that an allied race (a race that isn't a full fledged race) has more racial flair to their classes than the base races.
I like the look of it, but why does a zandalari get all these unique options while all the other full races are stuck with cat bear and chicken?
rich apex
To be fair, it's not like there was obvious alternatives for highmountain
Compared to how much of a thing dinosaurs are for Zandalari
tropic trail
it's awesome that zandalari are getting such cool options, but we've yet to see anything as cool coming for the darkirons, their supposed equivalent.
I suppose zandalari are a very prevalent race in BfA o it makes sense to flesh them out a bit more, but it just kinda feels like they're leaving alliance in the dust.
jade basalt
It doesn't feel that, no. Because we don't know anything yet.
tropic trail
don't we? we have the dark iron model and their racials, I'm not sure how much more there is to know, I mean, it's still alpha so things could change.
jade basalt
I mean what else do you expect from Dark Irons ? They sure won't get druid forms.
I was more talking generally, we have only had 1 month of alpha, BFA is still 6-8 months away
I'm sure you'll get cool stuff for Alliance as well, one way or another
cinder knoll
they are for sure working on something for alliance as Horde has 1 more race now
but they will maybe go with this retro "Orcs vs humans" theme and give them Kul'Tiran humans / Thin humans
maybe both as a single race
I always thought broken draenei would be cool, but not sure if they already dont have too many Draenei 😄
vast roost
Doesn't really seem like the scales are even right now.
Dark Iron Dwarves aren't nearly as fleshed out as Zandalari, to be honest.
Perhaps that's to come.
I guess we'll see 
hollow dock
@tropic trail the zandalari 'options' aren't actually options. theyre the forms their druids will be using. Dark Iron dont have druids and thus dont get these 'options' as you call em.
brave cypress
I think alliance should have kultirans as new unnanounced allied race, would be a better equivalent to Zandalari trolls since they have a different model, culture, mounts and city
dark irons are as maghar orcs, a recolor which city/culture we've already seen
cinder knoll
sounds logic
vast roost
Makes sense.
Could just be that they announced Dark Iron Dwarves together with Zandalari because they were closer to being finished.
Because they don't really feel equal.
vast roost
Yeah, definitely.
vast roost
You could make the same argument with Zandalari.
What's so different, they're both trolls.
cinder knoll
and whats so different about zandalari and darkspear?
vast roost
Ayy lmao.
jade basalt
Tirasian have armor in the files that has the same naming convention as all the other allied races' heritage armor sets, so it's fair to say they will be an allied race
vast mirage
humans are just humans but fatter or thinner
whats so special
also zandalari have different druid forms and stuff
cinder knoll
so standing pose is a major change while body shape isnt? ok
cinder knoll
btw did you see Kul Tiran females hairs? pretty awesome work
vast mirage
if i want to play a human but fat version i can play dwarfs.
if i want to play a human but thinner i can play gnome
cinder knoll
eh 😄 no
and if you want to play right standing troll, I guess you can play night elf right?
vast roost
Height =/= body-shape.
You can share your opinion, I'm literally just using your own argument against you.
It's nothing personal lol 
They're both different, in their own ways.
Also we don't know nearly as much about Tirasians yet, as we do about Zandalari.
So lets not jump the gun
cinder knoll
I think that people started caring too much about faction while still caring too much about races... if you want play something what is different faction, just switch or stop complaining, faction will never be the same
vast roost
I play both Horde and Alliance
cinder knoll
me too, more horde due to raiding guild
vast roost
Also the argument as been made for Harvest Witches.
Tirasian Druids are a possibility.
Zandalari use Dinomancy, so I don't see why Tirasians can't have Harvest Witches
vast roost
Isn't there a dude in Drustvar that goes into feral form, or something like that.
hollow dock
there is an NPC that describes the Harvest Witch as the Old Ways. While channeling nature in a forest.
I think we can safely say, they do have druids
vast roost
Good.
Because honestly we need more Alliance Druid representation.
I'm guessing we'll probably get another Allied Race other than Kul Tiran humans that can be druids.
Considering it's 2 to 4 right now.
Well 3 to 4 if you count Kul Tiran humans.
cinder knoll
you cant just compare druids by numbers
if you want, please also compare paladins, shamans and other classes
vast roost
Pfft.
fair owl
@vast roost 👋
fair owl
Kek
vast roost
@cinder knoll, ok. Well Alliance has the one-up on Paladin, and Horde has the one-up on Shaman.
But Horde has two races more than Alliance that can be Druids.
cinder knoll
how did you get to ali 1 up on paladin? 😄
vast roost
Human, Dwarf, Draenei, Lightforged? 🤔
cinder knoll
horde has only BE and Taurens... ali has human, dwarf, draenei and LF draenei
vast roost
Eh, true enough.
cinder knoll
so its already unbalanced enough, no reason to balance druid count
vast roost
I don't agree, but eh.
Zandalari Druids are getting these fancy new models, I think alliance druids should get some love too.
Either that, or just re-do all the original models.
That'd be fine
cinder knoll
Im sure they will if there is something fitting
adding something just for sake of "balance" doesnt make sense
vast roost
Fair enough.
vast roost
Still, if you put a lets say Night Elf Moonkin and Zandalari Moonkin next to each other, hardly seems fair, does it?
hollow dock
they were originally meant to be the counters for each other
since the start of this game
sharp bluff
Shaman tank when?
hollow dock
Blue gets holy light, red gets elements
cinder knoll
I think people forget that faction additions are not a race... if you like horde race, go play horde
thats a bit different from story
vast roost
What 
cinder knoll
ye but thats not the case now, ali has druids
hollow dock
wasn't until BC that it was changed because people demanded it
and then again in cata when people hated the idea of forcibly playing goats for blue shamans and elves for red paladins
vast roost
I think that Horde always having Shaman priority is fine, and vice versa for Paladin for Alliance.
Druid should be more equal though.
hollow dock
Theyre still equal until Zandalari are added in.
Oh wait highmountain can be druids.
vast roost
Yeah.
cinder knoll
man I'm already alergic to phrases like "should be more equal"
cinder knoll
not superiority, but pretending that equality is possible and right is stupid
vast roost
Uhm.
cinder knoll
every person is different
cinder knoll
no
hollow dock
there isnt an inbetween
cinder knoll
different doesnt mean superior
hollow dock
different doesnt mean not equal either
hollow dock
the movement of equality we see in the world today is to balance out the very clear inbalance of people.
vast roost
What the fuck does this have to do with believing that there should be an equal amount of races that can be druids, on either side.
hollow dock
Whites are certainly not treated equally to say. african-americans in the law.
vast roost
vast roost
Furries aren't equal.
hollow dock
nahtheyre not even people
cinder knoll
what you mean by equal then?
vast roost
Exile the Tauren and Worgen.
cinder knoll
thats different than equal
hollow dock
Equal in the eyes of the law
cinder knoll
sry Im a programmer maybe I understand that word differently
vast roost
My dude, you're aware a word can have multiple meanings, right?
hollow dock
Not everything is math man
cinder knoll
yes I'm thats why I said what I said
hollow dock
especially when dealing with peoples lives
two nurses, a man and a woman, should be payed equally. their both nurses right?
cinder knoll
if their skill is the same yes, otherwise no
hollow dock
They're in the exact same job, doing the exact same things
womans paid more because she's a woman
cinder knoll
2 people doing the same is not the same
hollow dock
that's what people are fighting against
cinder knoll
student rated 4 shouldnt get the same job as student rated 1
vast roost
This is getting awfully political for something that's not really political.
cinder knoll
no matter if they are blue or black or woman or nongender
hollow dock
You haven't been in a hospital have you
where they dont have just 1 nurse
they have multiple per shift
hollow dock
two nurses in hte same hospital
1 man 1 woman
doing the exact same things on their shift
aren't paid the same. despite both doing the same jobs.
cinder knoll
I already answered this
MaXi - dnes v 13:49
if their skill is the same yes, otherwise no
people doing same job doesnt mean they have the same quality
cinder knoll
ye, but hourly salary is based on the contract and more qualified person should get better contract
hollow dock
theyre at the same contract, but the woman is offered more because she's a woman.
that's the inequality people fight against
cinder knoll
in that case its not right ofc
hollow dock
because Maxi applied math to an ideology that has nothing to do with math.
cinder knoll
that you said something "should be equal" for no reason
hollow dock
What Shumle is saying is that druids, whom have ALWAYS been at an equal participation in the factions, should stay equal
until legion, it was 2 and 2.
hollow dock
Its not a rule. But, blizzard has always strived for it
vast roost
Horde players are being paid more, inequality!
cinder knoll
druids are balancing that out
hollow dock
Druids aren't the same dynamic as Paladin/shaman
thats what I tried to get across on what I had mentioned
cinder knoll
because forms?
vast roost
What.
hollow dock
the vanilla state of Paladin vs Shaman
tulip sun
Alliance will get druids when a race fits it
hollow dock
Kul'tirans fit it.
tulip sun
Until then, play horde if they want a nr3 druid
New
Kul'Tirans are likely, but not confirmed
hollow dock
The horde alliance stuff of Paladins vs Shamans is currnetly imbalanced. Alliance and horde have 1 more race that can do both respectively.
vast roost
We're literally just discussing it, there's no outcry.
Nobody is throwing a hissy fit over it.
hollow dock
We're trying to get maxi on the same page
vast roost
This isn't the forums.
hollow dock
as me and Shumle
fair owl
More furries for alliance?
vast roost
Naked furries.
fair owl
hollow dock
unless its snitties
vast roost
By that I mean Kul Tirans.
hollow dock
snitties stay
vast roost
Well that's that.
I don't think we succeeded in our mission.
But there was an attempt.
hollow dock
no we didn't
cuz people gotta butt in and give their two cents unaware of the conversations purpose
cinder knoll
just to make you more happy, you couldnt succeed 😃
hollow dock
sucks thatthey threw out their own balance. Zandalari and Highmountain getting druids unless normal stormwind humans get druidism with kul'tirans.
cinder knoll
the only argument I can accept is that druid requires more art work due to forms, so its a "special" class which, maybe, should be represented equally... but thats not a rule and we already agreed that Blizz will for sure add something also for ali when it fits 😃 I dont see any problem
hollow dock
Before that argument wouldn't work Max
cuz they just got slightly altered forms with different horns/antlers
but now zandalari tossing in dino forms
cinder knoll
maybe you should scroll up... I said " due to forms?" and you didnt reply to that
you missed your chance
hollow dock
??
cinder knoll
nevermind
hollow dock
You had asked that to me when I spoke of the dynamic of paladins/shamans
druids dont share the same dynamic
not due to class design
cinder knoll
sry I dont have time to talk about dynamics of vanilla classes
hollow dock
We just did?...
cinder knoll
I didnt refer to vanilla
hollow dock
Where you just glossing over everything I was telling you
hollow dock
And I was as well. I told you the reason Paladins/Shamans being at an imbalance is OK
but druids aren't
hollow dock
it wasn't
hollow dock
because forms didn't have ANY relevance to ANYTHING I was talking about
cinder knoll
ok then I dont really care 😃
hollow dock
which is why I asked, if you just glossed over EVERYTHING I just said
cinder knoll
just let it be
hollow dock
now you done wasted my time so now Im a bit peeved
cinder knoll
whats means glossed?
hollow dock
Passed over, dismissed, didn't read.
languid yoke
there might be plans for future alliance allied races that will bring back druid balance, who knows
doesn't need that "balance" anyway tho
hollow dock
There might, and that'd be great.It fits blizzards design that theyve kept for the entire 13 years of this game
cinder knoll
I think I've read everything, probably didnt consider it important, sry
questions is, was that design or just an accident?
hollow dock
yes it was purely by design that they kept the classes in balance.
cinder knoll
this general statement doesnt work sry
hollow dock
In cata when horde got another paladin using race, alliance got another shaman using race.
cinder knoll
there was always imbalance of classes
hollow dock
In terms of druids, when trolls got druids
worgen got introduced, which are also druids
keeping the count 2-2
cinder knoll
yes in terms of druids... but was that a design or the fact that no other races fit?
languid yoke
think it's the other way around, worgen introduced, trolls added
hollow dock
same time Wolf. Same time.
languid yoke
I know it was the same time
hollow dock
When one gets one, the other has always gotten something to balance it out. Until legion with allied races. Which is why people are questioning and wanting that balance to return. I, like so many others, dont see and haven't been given a reason for them to suddenly toss this design philosophy out the window.
tulip sun
What's the reason to keep it though
hollow dock
consistency. Faith.
If you have no faith in a developer, you tend to not give them money
tulip sun
Just because it was like that in the past? Really?
hollow dock
Yes. that's how it's worked for any company.
cinder knoll
hehe, finally Im not alone
hollow dock
Khamnin is not on your side Max. He's questioning my words.
tulip sun
Things change
hollow dock
Things do change, but blizzard has been incredibly transparent on everything so far.
Why change that now so suddenly?
cinder knoll
because some races fit and some not?
and there is no real reason for forced balance
tulip sun
Because no alliance races fit it so far
hollow dock
Which it would in Kul'tirans if its added in, which is fine.
tulip sun
Ya, if.
hollow dock
But at the moment, it looks like theyre not adding in anymore.
hence why people are putting it into question
because its something that's never been changed until now with no indications of a why despite blizzard always giving us a reason why
cinder knoll
those circles...
tulip sun
I see no problem with it. You want void druids or something???
hollow dock
because you two seem to just ignore what I say.
I never said that? No one has ever said that
cinder knoll
no you ignore our opinion and still repeat the same hoping we will get to your side
hollow dock
Your opinion is that there is no issue.
cinder knoll
yes
hollow dock
Yet despite everything I've told you to explain my side
hollow dock
And that's fine but you've given no indication of understanding
hence why I keep going
cinder knoll
ah, sorry then
tulip sun
They don't need to explain why there are no alliance druids
hollow dock
if you had said earlier, 'I see where you're coming from and I understand the confusion but dont see a reason to keep to it' then alright. That's fine.
cinder knoll
I didnt think it has to be said explicitly, sorry 😃
hollow dock
Over text when you can't see the thinking face, the head nodding, any physical indications of understanding, I do believe its needed.
cinder knoll
nevermind, maybe it will be better next time
hollow dock
I miss thonking
vast roost
cinder knoll
@vast roost please dont start a flame war
vast roost
Assuming I was referring to you.
cinder knoll
ye, so not assuming
cinder knoll
no, its a logical thinking and context
cinder knoll
something you probably lack
vast roost
Logical thinking and context 
hollow dock
Shumle, enough memeing. Maxi aint in on the joke.
cinder knoll
please just return to where you were when me and Vris talked, it was better
vast roost
Ok, fine I won't meme.
hollow dock
I dont mind memeing onto people or me, just make sure theyre in on the joke
cinder knoll
maybe I need jokes to be more obvious to be taken as jokes
vast roost
This specimen clearly lacks the ability to comprehend my incredibly intelligent humour
cinder knoll
ye I also did that when I was younger, people complained that I'm offending them
hollow dock
You normally you do when you do it to people who aren't in on it
or are just normies
cinder knoll
the space beween inteligent humour and straight offending is quite thin
hollow dock
it is
hollow dock
that's why I say; Dont do it to people who aren't in on the jokes.
cinder knoll
ye
vast roost
Good grief, it was clearly sarcastic. Pull the stick out of your ass.
vast roost
I'm aware.
cinder knoll
ye maybe I was expecting an adult behavior from some kid, not gonna happen again
hollow dock
and you maxi stop being passive aggressive
vast roost
Oof, he pulled the kid card.
cinder knoll
just an appropriate response
hollow dock
you both are acting like children
vast roost
I'm aware, I'm doing so intentionally. He's just a man-child
Unironically calling people "kid"
Good grief
We've crossed a threshold that one does not come back from. I do not have it in me to take this man seriously. 
hollow dock
You're can't do it, you're not strong enough?
vast roost
I'm in a weakened state.
My power is waning.
Help me Obi-Vris, you're my only hope.
tulip sun
New topic...
vast roost
So how about those Zandalari Druids.
strange falcon
spoiled
vast roost
Ohmygawd.
strange falcon
i think the head designer is zandalari bias,and FORCED the art team to make new forms
that's the only possible way
because after 13 years+ without a new boomkin form
this is the only excuse
vast roost
I wholeheartedly agree.
Someone is being held at gunpoint.
This is all a marketing ploy to sell BfA pre-orders.
strange falcon
it's like the conspiracy theories
vast roost
Dinomancy? Pfft, heresy. Never heard of it.
strange falcon
that nerfs to mythic bosses
hollow dock
I agree as well.
strange falcon
happen ONLY when Ion's guild reaches them
vast roost
We've cracked the code.
hollow dock
Ion clearly isnt apart of the internatl team
strange falcon
ion's character is an orc resto sham lul
hollow dock
its a farce, a fake.
THATS WHY THEYRE GETTING STRAIGHT BACKS
We've done it bois. We've uncovered Ion's pl
vast roost
Shocking.
hollow dock
Theres no plot guys. Just some coincidences. the horde and zandalari aren't being favored. Theyre just being shown the love they deserve.
hollow dock
Of course the beautiful orcs of teh horde deserve love. The whole horde does.
hollow dock
the beautiful orcs, specially handsome orc shamans, deserve their straight backs.
vast roost
I see what you're doing, reverse psychology for the Blizzard spy watching our conversation.
I see.
vast roost
Yes, indeed. The Horde very much deserves all of this love that they're being shown in Battle for Azeroth™.
Dafire you absolute mongoloid.
hollow dock
We should buy more Battle For Azeroth™ copies for all our friends.
hollow dock
So that Blizzard Entertainment™ can keep delivering all this beautiful horde love.
vast roost
Get your copy of World of Warcraft™ Battle for Azeroth™ now. At the low-low price of €44.99.
strange falcon
exactly
hollow dock
We're all horde lovers here.
strange falcon
you will find no allies here alliance main
vast roost
Yes we love the Horde, screw those filthy Alliance dogs.
hollow dock
What are you talking about? I've never touched an alliance character.
strange falcon
not talking to you vris omegalul
vast roost
What's this? Alleria and Turalyon supports the Alliance? Bah.
Screw those two as well.
Filthy Alliance dogs.
hollow dock
Indeed.
hollow dock
Exactly.
strange falcon
what do alliance get? slums with rusted rooftops, and scrap metal with narrow backstreets and filthy alleyways
what do horde get
giant spacious pyramid
full of gold
and with a ton of dinosaurs going around
hollow dock
Stop what? Just showing our horde lo
vast roost
This is too much sarcasm and irony for like, the entire week.
vast roost
I've had my fill.
vast roost
Long live the Arakkoa.
tulip sun
That was terrible to witness
hollow dock
I could feel the gaze of the blizzards here looking at us as we discovered Ions plot
strange falcon
if you love arakkoa just go zandalari druid and never come out of boomkin lul
also yeah
the blizzard gaze was heavy
strange falcon
thanks for the constructive insults
hollow dock
What can you expect from a disgusting hutt dweller
vast roost
Ornyx will never believe us now.
strange falcon
"hut dweller",we got the biggest city on azeroth,another giant city,a former alliance city that will get bombed next expac,a giant pyramid full of gold
just because orgrimmar is full of huts
doesnt mean we are hut dwellers
hollow dock
Actually the biggest city on Azeroth is Teldrassil
And arguable, Dalaran is second largest along with places like Stormwind in contestion.
strange falcon
well teldrassil is getting burnt, and dalaran is nowhere close,and btw the blizzard devs themselves said this was the biggest ingame city atm lul,but you're missing what city i'm talking about
also shumle that's a common misconception of a mysoginistic alliance main
if huts were really made of that
they would even stand up right
hollow dock
Not if theyre hardened like clay
strange falcon
there are no clay-poop huts
vast roost
Of course there are.
hollow dock
In which the largest city on Azeroth is actually under the oceans
and called Zin'azshari
strange falcon
vris zin-ashari is in game atm
OMEGALUL
also if you're tagged both sides, your opinion doesnt count
vast roost
Cunt.
hollow dock
It is not actually. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Zin-Azshari
The very -edge- of it is in the zone Azshara
but the entire city is not in game
strange falcon
obviously it's in the game's lore,but it's not a physical place you can go to as of right now inside world of warcraft
maybe mid bfa tho
hollow dock
[9:02 AM] Dafire: "hut dweller",we got the biggest city on azeroth,another giant city,a former alliance city that will get bombed next expac,a giant pyramid full of gold
nice try guy
vast roost
I would link you a website that sells stools and ropes, but it was shut down unfortunately.
strange falcon
"said this was the biggest ingame city atm lul,but you're missing what city i'm talking about" scroll up vris
lul
hollow dock
Your original comment is on azeroth
that's what Ive been contesting
you changing it midway doesn't change what I've been talking about though.
vast roost
Gottem.
I've actually lost the ability to perceive what is and what isn't sarcasm at this point.
I can't tell if Dafire is a genuine degenerate, because he shows no emotion whatsoever.
hollow dock
that's my intention
strange falcon
wild pewter
This chat is so toxic 😂
vast roost
I mean, it's mild toxicity.
But still toxicity.
Hardly rivals that of League, but still.
honest ledge
csgo is included yes
vast roost
Russians don't count.
If we don't understand what they're saying, we cannot determine whether or not it's toxic.
honest ledge
LMAO have you played cs like ever its so toxic anywhere
strange falcon
cs is so old
hollow dock
Well. We can't tell if theyre aggressively loving us
or hating us
cuz its in another language
and we dont want to be assholes and assume the latter.
honest ledge
the latter is them loving us wym
hollow dock
I dont know what you're talking about.
honest ledge
im sorry. im tired
hollow dock
Actually no it is the later. Latter is second, former is first.
dense plover
Don’t think this was noticed, but there was another build late last night
131 -> 141
hollow dock
whats in it
dense plover
No clu
honest ledge
latter could also refer to the more negative of two items
dense plover
I just know it updated
honest ledge
nvm idk where i got that info
hollow dock
I've only ever heard former and latter refered to the first or second decisions.
honest ledge
i mustve been high
hollow dock
Like 'I'll bring you in dead or alive and I hope its the former"
honest ledge
or someone told me incorrect info. hmmmm i rescind my statement.
honest ledge
OOF
strange falcon
any of you bois using the new bfa ui to play wow?
there's an addon that gives u the new bfa ui instead of the current default one in case you didnt know
hollow dock
what's changed for the base UI?
olive mirage
they just moved a few minor things
hollow dock
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/418828164316397568/418828229441486848/WoWScrnShot_030118_185204.jpg thats a tad more than you say.
strange falcon
there's few of us defaulters
hollow dock
that's four different things
strange falcon
and i'm sure someone will make an old UI addon lul
olive mirage
and what does a few mean
hollow dock
3 or less.
I cna only assume the rep bar is also put onto the bottom.
also
Fire
why do you have a whole slot dedicated to auto attack?
meager warren
http://prntscr.com/iljryc
i never thought i'd see this day
meager warren
hollow dock
Ye. Who cares about context?
meager warren
have u met me, Vris?
hollow dock
I've said multiple times that I adore Sylvanas in her current state. I simply oppose that she is being painted as any sort of hero.
meager warren
actually, i feel like Nathanos is Sylvanas's reluctant servant
hollow dock
Despite the fact that theres a very real possibility that Nathanos and Sylvanas have fucked and had relations before goin all undead.
meager warren
pics or it didn't happen
hollow dock
SHall we bring up the origin story of them meeting and spending a lot of time together out in a little farmhouse inLorderon?
meager warren
yes
hollow dock
Nathanos was a ranger of the Farstriders prior to Arthas' invasion despite written protests from Kael'thas and other striders to have him removed for him not being an elf
meager warren
but if they have fucked, that probably makes it more likely he's reluctant
hollow dock
The only person who protected him: Ranger General Sylvanas.
They are being painted in that same story as comrades, friends, and hinting at possibly having more feelings.
While undead don't feel these emotions as strongly anymore, even less for Sylvanas, they are still present.
meager warren
he's a human undead with a unique model.
Sylvanas probably regrets fucking him now
hollow dock
She's the one who gave him that body
meager warren
hot
meager warren
Nathanos doesn't know what's good for him.
He could do so much better
meager warren
or a troll feast
uncut vault
do you want to see how shitty that hood looks on non human males
vast roost
It'd be still be better than that
uncut vault
sorry for your wrong opinion
(also the hood in that pic is literally a dark ranger lookalike from nighthold)
vast roost
uncut vault
random ass tree tabard with grass outline
hollow dock
green text arrows in 2018
vast roost
Taking shit seriously in 2018.
uncut vault
Eh, at least Im not tryna be a horde leader on alliance 🤷
fallen solar
uncut vault
hollow dock
also that's not a hood most dark rangers wear. nathanos wears the hood from the leather questing set.
uncut vault
😩 quality helmet
vast roost
It's almost like humans match more than any other race, for this transmog.
It's almost like it's completely ironic.
vast roost
Shame.
hollow dock
tight wagon
Thank god they made her less slutty
uncut vault
that is a really bad statue, wow.
tight wagon
Yeah lol look at her face
hollow dock
I dont know how or why but people have always drawn her without her leggings on
vast roost
Less slutty? Check.
Still Warchief? Check, that's a shame.
Remind me when she's getting killed off again? 
uncut vault
she dies when wow does
tranquil steeple
Some point in the future.
tight wagon
I really think forsaken should just be a different faction
hollow dock
I too think the horde should be a different faction
tight wagon
I mean I love sylvannas and I love the forsaken but they don't fit the horde at alll
tulip sun
If there was a new build, why no datamining!?
vast roost
I mean, I'd be ok with them leaving the Horde.
hollow dock
maybe there was just nothingin the build
vast roost
Perhaps then I would get less Horde elitists flaming me for not liking them.
hollow dock
Yes please let the forsaken leave
vast roost
tight wagon
They will never leave the horde because of gameplay
steel venture
Issue is, Sylvanas won't get killed because she is the most profilic, most discussion-causing character.
rich apex
What Mord said
They -could- have fit the Horde if Blizz could write them as something besides petty villains
steel venture
She's either someone's fan favorite, or who someone considers the most infamous character.
dense plover
what do you mean they dont fit the horde?
tight wagon
True
rich apex
But they're ugly corpse people!
hollow dock
Theyre not orcs
dense plover
only 3 horde races are about honor
steel venture
There's that much of a split on her it's kind of similar to how Illidan is.
dense plover
the point of the horde isnt honor
its about second chances
its about not being a reject
steel venture
Some people absolutely despise Illidan, others would sing praises about him.
vast roost
Sylvanas has had like, 4 chances.
hollow dock
She's had 3 so far.
dense plover
why?
rich apex
She ain't dying in BFA
leaden garden
With the rest of the Angstsaken
dense plover
shes an interesting character
rich apex
Can't go Full Garrosh if N'zoth is the finale
dense plover
yes she is
leaden garden
A long time ago
dense plover
im sorry if youre blind
steel venture
She's not going Garrosh.
dense plover
but she most definitely is an interesting character
hollow dock
I'll admit I've lost interest in Sylvanas as the game has focused more around her.
steel venture
Even if she's no longer very sympathetic she is not anything like Garrosh.
dense plover
especially with the upcoming novel
dense plover
no
hollow dock
or raise the dead of his enemies
dense plover
instead garrosh would commit genocide
vast roost
Garrosh was a better Warchief.
hollow dock
either way its genocide
dense plover
he would use the power of the sha
steel venture
She's been 100% IC thus far. She is cruel, harsh, and persuses her own goals. If nobody actually paid attention to her originally they don't know who she was.
lmao
dense plover
murdering an army isnt genocide
leaden garden
But she want from a struggling character with a lot of depth to the Queen of Angst with a blackbelt in Angst-Fu yelling "MUH PEOPLE" despite the fact her people are a bunch of rotting corpses who like plagues and cannabalise their own
uncut vault
I mean, with his MoP character he prolly would
dense plover
trying to create a pure horde is genocide
hollow dock
Oh so Gilneas and Soutshore are armies now?
dense plover
i give you gilneas
steel venture
She literally created the Forsaken as a faction out of vengence. And then to be a weapon post Arthas's death.
dense plover
southshore sort of was
hollow dock
it was an alliance port three quarters smaller than theramore with just as much to protect itself
vast roost
"My people! 
"
hollow dock
More innocents died in Gilneas and Southshore than actual combatants
vast roost
"My brainwashed army! 
"
steel venture
coughcough southshore is way bigger than that by lore coughcough
steel venture
literally just because its like 2 buildings in game doesnt mean it's pathetically small by lore
hollow dock
I never said that Xan
dense plover
forsaken literally are their own people shumle
hollow dock
I had said its three quarters smaller than Theramore. Which is true
dense plover
but that doesnt make it not a threat
steel venture
Southshore is a military port.
By lore.
It WAS just a village, but then it expanded when people fled to it and fortified it.
hollow dock
It is an alliance port yes. But with hardly enough forces to actually challenge Sylvanas when she expanded. She used the plague to avoid having mass conflict that would be dragged on beacuse humans are very hard to kill it seems.
steel venture
So it was more akin to an actual y'know, portside stronghold in lore.
Hence why it always clashed with the Forsaken within Tarren Mill
hollow dock
So liquidation is better.
hollow dock
I can say the exact same thing against your points against garrosh peach
dense plover
except garrosh attacked the horde too
hollow dock
its war. they planned on betraying him
uncut vault
I mean, tbh, Sylvanas is probably more merciful to blight towns than burn them like teldrassil
dense plover
sylvanas hasnt fought the horde
steel venture
TBH: The plague is shitty to use, but at the same time ... It isn't like other races would be much better.
It's liquid mustard gas.
uncut vault
fire takes a while to kill you, blight just liquidizes you instantly
steel venture
If I had to make a comparison.
hollow dock
^@xan
heavy cairn
the problem I see is that garrosh (before MoP) still wanted "honor" (though in a pretty inconsistent way)
if southshore wasn't a military port, then he wouldn't be too happy with what sylvanas did. but if it is, she did what had to be done IMO.
hollow dock
Its chemical warfare. Granted that Garrosh is willing to use almost any weapon he can to win, he refuses to use blight.
steel venture
It's painful, but a very quick death. Most blighted humans won't even be risen into undeath.
It's liiiiiterally like how we dropped chemical warfare in trenches and shit.
But then couldn't even go into those areas ourselves.
Hell, even if undead can be just rezzed again they STILL wont go into blighted areas without a mask on!
hollow dock
He even refuses to raise the dead as he marches on as that's exactly what Arthas had done.
dense plover
yeah
heavy cairn
the blight is meant to kill humans and undead, right?
hollow dock
Yup
dense plover
sylvanas definitely doesnt have hnor
hollow dock
Blight's meant to wipe out both sides and leave nothing to be raised.
dense plover
but that doesnt make her decisions irrational
vast roost
Baine for Warchief 
steel venture
garrosh's character during MoP was gutted tbh
heavy cairn
sylvanas is definitely not honorable, but sometimes her goals align in a way that seem honorable (but let's be honest she's not doing it for honor)
hollow dock
Its literally scorched earth
uncut vault
Cata garrosh was actually the misstep
steel venture
i wish they kept the parallel of him using mogu stuff.
versus him going extra evil and using sha
uncut vault
MoP was always intended to be his character
dense plover
i dont think baine has enough experience with war to be warchief yet
steel venture
no port thats not what i meant
dense plover
after BfA? sure
steel venture
i meant the whole
"lemme use SHA MAGIC!! but fel is stinky and kill all warlocks."
hollow dock
Again, I just want her removed from the seat of Warchief.
heavy cairn
I think cata was just trying to change garrosh's character based on events in Wrath, but MoP was like, "nah"
uncut vault
I mean, hes a hypocrite. People are hypocrites.
vast roost
Or you know, he could initiate peace-talks in the face of the threat that is the Old Gods and the Void.
heavy cairn
I don't think the world really knew about the void being a threat until pretty recently. as for old gods, they've never really cared until it's almost too late
uncut vault
He obviously has a lot more aversion to fel magic than old god magic because old god magic didnt ruin his people
hollow dock
Despite the fact that Anduin has always pushed for peace. It's not like she wouldn't be aware of that.
steel venture
when garrosh using mogu artifacts and tactics would've been more in character and a better parallel. though--- it's gutted. imo.
it was stupid, stupid writing.
vast roost
You don't need experience with war to be Warchief if there is no war 
hollow dock
^
steel venture
and it was the parallel of
"Oh.He's becoming a tyrant just LIKE the mogu" and made it far less ham-fisted than "LOL LOOK, EVIL. EVIL EEEEVIL!!!!!"
uncut vault
Sylvanas for Peacechief confirmed
hollow dock
Wish she would
so I'd have no issue with her character and actually be interested in her again
steel venture
TBH she's trying to aim for peace-through-annihilation, in short.
that's her thing with trying to take over kalimdor
heavy cairn
well, she claimed that before, pretty sure the datamined text was changed
hollow dock
Peace through superior firepower
hollow dock
She hasn't. in the book she outright says 'There can beno peace with the alliance' and plans to attack stormwind
vast roost
I wonder when the realisation is going to hit her.
heavy cairn
ah, the book
steel venture
Also, to be honest? Given that the Alliance actually clearly strikes first pre-BFA she's got a point.
heavy cairn
I was under the impression that the peace-from-annihilation came from the datamining though, saying "there can be no peace" doesn't mean that's her plan
hollow dock
nah
tulip sun
I agree Xan
hollow dock
she's always been a warmonger
vast roost
"Genn ruined my quest for immortality "
tulip sun
It was not just for her though
hollow dock
They strike first because they know hte horde can't be trusted
uncut vault
The prequel chapter has interesting implications. She obviously doesnt assault SW, and opts for Teldrassil instead, so something in the book incentivizes her to prioritize her people in the Horde over her personal goals.
tulip sun
It was to give her people a future, a life without damnation at the end
heavy cairn
"Given that the Alliance actually clearly strikes first pre-BFA she's got a point."
well, the alliance doesn't think they striked first--genn says horde abandoned them for no reason
hollow dock
and think she just attacks Teld as step 1
steel venture
No, no OSX.
hollow dock
to ensure theres no retaliationon Orgrimmar
steel venture
I mean Silithus.
heavy cairn
ah, silithus
steel venture
Alliance is killing Horde RIGHT after the sword hits.
heavy cairn
well, at that point, they think the horde "can't be trusted" because they "betrayed" them earlier
hollow dock
Because the horde was already mining the crystals there
heavy cairn
that's why I was saying that
uncut vault
as much as I love sylvanas, I still laugh at her "the Hordes SELFLESS leadership during the war against the legion" line
hollow dock
Its not like they randomly just do it. There's a very long line of justifications for it all
heavy cairn
👆 of course
steel venture
Though it still is on the whole assumption of: "Goblins are being drawn to this and clearly they're never stupid and wrong about get rich schemes. So it MUST!! BE!!! BAD!!!"
tulip sun
There is obviously legion events we don't see.
such as defending everywhere we don't see
steel venture
goblins are known for making stupid decisons, hence why 90% of their inventions eventually blow up
tulip sun
Like in the pre-event
hollow dock
after the sword that pierces through Azeroth, strange POWER crystals pop up
steel venture
the SI:7 could've bought information
hollow dock
after knowing there is a titan spirit down there
heavy cairn
some of the justifications are pretty weak, but the decisions of the alliance are not liable to that, only genn is
steel venture
instead of just outright slaughter them
steel venture
and the horde/alliance doesn't care.
tulip sun
SI:7 and Rogers also attack Sylvanas..so
hollow dock
there's no reason to assumethey aren't knowledgable at all that these crystals are very clearly from Azeroth herself
steel venture
hence why khadgar's bouncing out lmao
uncut vault
I mean, for a speaker, Magnis pretty shit at speaking.
comic had him go out to warn kingdoms, khadgar got there first
not communicating with anduin very well
hollow dock
Which is why when the Alliance sees HORDE goblins mining them
heavy cairn
did the horde/alliance leaders ever know that it's a titan? I was under the impression that we had to tell some random person who said they would pass the news on. but we don't know that the news ever made it
steel venture
and magni's like "... can you please fucking stop these idiots ... please?"
you tell them
"NOPE. ORDERS!"
"wow okay our planet is dying asshole"
hollow dock
Magni tells us to pass on the information we learn from him
steel venture
"BUT MUH ORDERS"
hollow dock
we pass on the message Xan
heavy cairn
we pass the message on to the commander at the camp, but not to the leaders
hollow dock
they pass it up and up and up until it hits anduin
vast roost
I see nothing wrong with mining the life-blood of Azeroth for our own benefit 
hollow dock
whatever happens from here on out is them just ignoring it
heavy cairn
I'm pretty certain there's no guarantee the info made it there
steel venture
yeah we never know if its passed on that azerite = azeroth is literally DYING please stop fighting gets to anduin or not
heavy cairn
someone higher up might say, "bah, I don't care" (probably more likely to happen on horde side)
hollow dock
Considering how chain of command works
and it comes from Silithus
about the alliance horde war effort
Yes the High King of the Alliance will get notified
steel venture
IMO. it probably got dropped once it got to the House of Nobles in SW.
hollow dock
because he's aware of the mining operation in Silithus
cuz that's what we're shown in the cinematic
steel venture
On the plea to stop and save the planet.
hollow dock
its not like Anduin is completely oblivious
he knows and most likely is waiting for it
steel venture
He's not, but he probably doesn't understand fully what Azerite is at the moment.
steel venture
...and the conversation goes around again
vast roost
Do either faction fully understand what it is?
hollow dock
because we dont know what it is and if the hordes after it, we better learn it and just hinder them in the process
Not so far
tulip sun
No
vast roost
steel venture
literally magni's message hasn't gone up the chain of commmand yet
when magni SHOULD just walk up to anduin like
tulip sun
Yet somehow people still blame the horde.
steel venture
"tell them to sTOP"
hollow dock
We dont know if it HAS OR HASN'T yet
there hasn't been ANY progression on the story yet
heavy cairn
so, I know it's likely the alliance knows about it (velen witnessed the events and plus they are "noble")
but horde probably doesn't. they don't really care about this type of message
uncut vault
heres hoping the cultist countdown actually gives us more silithus story
tulip sun
That kinda makes the Alliance seem awful