i mean allied races didnt exist for 13 years but eventually it did happen
#beta-ptr-spoilers
median halo
steel venture
Ogre nearly made it, but goblin ended up being the better route.
median halo
People HAVE been asking for allied races
mellow pasture
Subraces*
median halo
people have been asking to play as brown orcs since they were first shown
hollow dock
When did someone in the past come up with the concept of allied races?
mellow pasture
pretyt much the same thing
steel venture
Allied races =/= subrace customization for existing races.
median halo
and iron dwarves
uncut vault
Blizz changing the terminology doesnt mean people havent been asking for subraces.
they CAN be more but right now they are subraces.
hollow dock
They aren't subraces though. They're apart of the main race.
median halo
They ARE subraces
uncut vault
thats literally what subrace means
median halo
like portergauge is saying, its just different terminology
hollow dock
So then are Bronzebeard Dwarves
the main dwarf
a subrace?
Because the PC dwarve we've had is Bronzebeard.
steel venture
Mountain dwarves =/= Hill dwarves =/= Dark dwarves.
uncut vault
yes, they are. Theyre just the original dwarf we got to play.
steel venture
They all have different physiologies and if you want to be TECHNICAL? They're actually all subspecies of Earthen.
mellow pasture
the curse of flesh, aren't we all coming from it?
hollow dock
Not everyone
median halo
nelves are a subrace of trolls aylma
hollow dock
Just the dwarves, humans and gnomes.
mellow pasture
obviously not everything
hollow dock
Orcs are just a subspecies of the Gronn.
mellow pasture
they're not eve nfrom azeroth
hollow dock
Neither are ogres or Gronn
median halo
draenei are a subspecies of mountain goats
mellow pasture
the black empire adn the curse of flesh happened on azeroth
vale sedge
Mhm. Considering "Uldir" is gonna be in the troll zone, I'm willing to bet trolls were also victims to the Curse of Flesh at some point, we just didn't find evidence yet.
steel venture
Ew. no.
hollow dock
Uldir isnt a troll zone.
mellow pasture
so the gronn is just an alien race on draenor and the orcs came from them
hollow dock
and no they aren't Erotic
steel venture
Trolls are and always have been a native race.
vale sedge
Uldir is in Nazmir which is a region of Zandalar.
hollow dock
Trolls have been around since before the Black empire and have fought them.
vale sedge
Troll zone.
steel venture
Just because there is a titan facility in Zandalar doesn't mean they are titanic.
hollow dock
Uldir is a Titan zone
vale sedge
Alright. Fair enough.
median halo
my perfect horde would be Trolls, Orcs, Goblins, Ogres and Undead
steel venture
Otherwise that'd mean pandaren are titanic by that logic.
median halo
none of these dirty elves
uncut vault
I mean, I'd be totally fine with getting the elves back in the Alliance
median halo
I would just forget that they exist
steel venture
#ElvenEmpire2.0
hollow dock
ALL elves on Azeroth descend from the Trolls
median halo
exile them to some long forgotten questline you breeze through at a low level
hollow dock
No can do, Arthas did irreparable damage.
mellow pasture
adn bring vengeance upon the scourge and sylvanas
hollow dock
Arthas' scourge has been dismantled.
mellow pasture
sylvanas is alive
hollow dock
Sylvanas died protecting silvermoon
steel venture
... fun fact on grond's children though before i forget. (draenor giants, magnagron, gronn, orgron, ogres, orcs)
mellow pasture
dead* alive*
hollow dock
Why is she being targeted?
steel venture
they had a curse-of-flesh like aliment
due to the sporemound releasing it and slowly weakening their stone bodies
mellow pasture
sure she was forced into a banshee by arthas but still
hollow dock
Again why vengence against her? She's done nothing to harm Silvermoon and has only helped it
median halo
when blood elves came out people were shitting on them for not fitting the horde thematically at all but of course people feel that they do fit nowadays after expansions of retconning
now they give us nightelves and nobody bats an eye
steel venture
Oh boy.
You're going to use that argument.
hollow dock
Yet you dont answer the questions?
median halo
It's because I am just stirring the shitpot for no good reason
hollow dock
What was retconned about the belves?
mellow pasture
i dont mind the belfs being horde
median halo
I don't mind the elves, I am just longing for the day we get ogres that might never come
hollow dock
I know the Draenei had their race retconned so they could go player
but what about the elves were changed?
mellow pasture
would it be better if they joined the alliance?
steel venture
Blood elves were turned away from the Alliance, rejected by a percentage of their own people that abanoned them and did not take up the politics or methods, they had nothing left.
Sylvanas is the very reason they were accepted into the Horde. She still has sympathy for her people.
So why in the fuck would blood elves as a whole spit on her and turn their backs to her?
hollow dock
And that's been the story since BC. What's been changed?
steel venture
The only thing that has changed really is that Lor'themar and Sylvanas argue with one another more than you'd expect.
median halo
There's an entire wiki article on the subject http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_elf_controversy
steel venture
Wowwiki.
vale sedge
Weren't Blood Elves considering joining the Alliance back in MoP until Aethas screwed it up by working with Garrosh on some horrible treachery? Very thought out observation, I know, but still.
hollow dock
Idgaf about their controversy on being added
steel venture
GIT THAT OUT.
dusky ginkgo
There's nothing about retcon in this article?
hollow dock
Varian was in talks with Lorth to get em back in the alliance, but garrosh pulled the Bell stunt which forced Jaina's hand to punish the blood elves of dalaran with exile.
steel venture
Varian was trying to send emissaries and offer diplomacy yes, So Lor'themar was considering it.
vale sedge
So, then the question "So why in the fuck would blood elves as a whole spit on her and turn their backs to her?" is kinda unwarranted, is it? They were already thinking about it.
hollow dock
They weren't doing it to get away from Sylvanas
uncut vault
sylvanas was not warchief in MoP
hollow dock
they were considering it for Garrosh
steel venture
That isn't attacking her like Mer was suggesting.
uncut vault
she was barely a Horde leader up till Legion
hollow dock
Im still waiting on what was retconned about the blood elves @median halo
uncut vault
the most that got retconned about them was them being made more buff from alpha to beta of TBC lol
steel venture
Nothing was retconned really about them.
They were just no longer run by martial law post-BC.
dusky ginkgo
They added the warrior class. Think that's all
uncut vault
which really shoulda been a baseline class, same with human/undead hunters
hollow dock
Thankfully they rectified it in cata
median halo
@hollow dock I said I am just shitstirring
steel venture
Which Blizzard finally made them baseline in Cata, yeah.
Because it was kind of stupid to have paladins but no generic warriors?
vale sedge
I dunno, I thought it made the race unique.
steel venture
Exactly.
hollow dock
Can't have no uniqueness Erotic
vale sedge
They're really not, they're spellbreakers, a mage in plate armor. Not just a warrior.
hollow dock
They are not spellbreakers actually
it's not until MoP that spellbreakers are retrained.
median halo
So if we are getting Mag'har Orcs, what else is the alliance possibly getting?
steel venture
Kul tirans.
vale sedge
So what, they just use the spellbreaker armor? Now THAT'S goddamn stupid and a retcon.
hollow dock
Kul'tiran humans
uncut vault
prot warriors are basically spellbreakers
hollow dock
yes
median halo
Those skinny human models?
hollow dock
And its not a retcon
uncut vault
or at least were till legion
steel venture
noooo.
hollow dock
they were made to look like Spellbreakers
steel venture
the husky models.
hollow dock
no one has ever claimed they were but the community
median halo
do we have any model leaks on them?
mellow pasture
If vrykuls were to be added as an allied race would they join the alliance or would you be able to choose?
hollow dock
Thin/Fat humans Mesh
median halo
Reminds me of the slender defias models from vanilla
steel venture
More likely the fat human mesh will be used for Kul Tirans.
hollow dock
Oh I hope so
steel venture
We've yet to have a model toggle added to a race.
hollow dock
I wanna be a fat human leaping around with superhuman strength and speed
median halo
I really hate the base male human model
steel venture
And Kul Tiran concept art always makes them more on the hefty side.
hollow dock
I hate all the male models tbh
steel venture
If your Kul Tiran doesn't look like they could wrestle a bear and win what is the point.
vale sedge
By "retcon" I mean this armor was specifically spellbreaker armor back in WC3. Regular Blood Elf soldiers used different armor. And now in WoW suddenly regular guards wear spellbreaker armor? Or am I mistaken and it was never said in lore that the armor of Spell Breakers is Spellbreaker-only and can't be worn by other soldiers?
hollow dock
Male tauren forme.
median halo
then the zandalari do AWAY with the slouch
hollow dock
You are heavily mistaken by that second bit Erotic.
median halo
the one amazing quality i love about the darkspear
i mean it makes sense, but i really hate the male nelf skeleton
steel venture
Zandalari need to be TALLER
vale sedge
I'm really interested in Vris' explanation, no sarcasm. Takes so long to type. 😦
hollow dock
The armor and weapons are inspired from the Spellbreakers, but they are not spellbreakers themselves. From BC to MoP, with Kaelthas and all that junk, the blood elves hadn't made Spellbreakers on fear of another KT being made. By the time MoP comes around and Lorth has proven himself for his people, they start to make spellbreakers for the Shieldbreaker event.
median halo
they should be taller than taurens really
but in game wise they already have problems with doorways
steel venture
Zandalari are so short right now it's disapppointing.
They should be at least the height of taurens and yet the current males are shorter than DARKSPEAR WOMEN.
vale sedge
By "KT" you just shortened "Kael'thas" or did you mean something I'm unaware of?
uncut vault
alpha also doesnt have model scaling right yet
hollow dock
yes its just a shortened Kael'thas.
vale sedge
Hmmm. Alright.
uncut vault
dont be too worried about the heights of the models
steel venture
I'd hope they bump up the height. People are complaining on the forums about it given that Zandalari are described as being the tallest troll race.
... Outside of dark trolls I mean.
median halo
consider that the darkspear would be really tall if they unslouched
steel venture
But we only just got confirmation that dark trolls are still alive.
hollow dock
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Spellbreaker more information on them here.
uncut vault
a lot of models, even player ones, have passive scaling
all normal tauren models are set at a 1.3 scale
steel venture
ye. they base the scale 1 of all models off of humans, then modify it to bump them up for each race
uncut vault
most likely, they need to add something to bump upp zandalari, and bump down kul tiran humans
steel venture
and then lock that new number in place
which is why the larger in scale you go, the slower the animations feel
median halo
so if we get kultiras humans, maghar orcs, then the dark iron dwarves and zandalari
you think thats it?
ruby prawn
Vris, why did you change your profile pic
steel venture
Probably not.
Vulpera will be likely added with something.
median halo
I don't think vulpera will be playable
uncut vault
for 8.0/8.1, those will probably be the only four
but I suspect we'll get more at the end of BfA like we did in legion
proud karma
Is that why animations feel so slow!
steel venture
Outside of that. I feel like the only other possiblity would be Naga as a fully fledged race during BFA. Instead of an Allied race.
median halo
If they add nagas they better fucking add ogres
steel venture
And yes, it is!
That's why tauren and pandaren can feel weirdly slow at times.
median halo
nagas would be more of a logistical nightmare than ogres
proud karma
I knew I wasn't imagining that
steel venture
Yeah, the smaller your character is the faster their animations are. Which is why gnomes look like they're zipping around all over the place.
median halo
gnome sprinting is the best animation in the game
vale sedge
Wait, I'm confused. Dark trolls were neutral NPC's in WC3 (I know I'm yet again using a game from 16 years ago, but the old age doesn't make it non-canon). When did they suddenly disappear? And they were hunched. Why are they the tallest race all of a sudden?
dusky ginkgo
I can't play tauren because of that. uuugh, so sloow
proud karma
Yeah my main is a dwarf and even making an elf for the first time I was like "uh"
hollow dock
With the resurgence of the Twilight's Hammer and the Legionf orces that marched through Hyjal, it was simply assumed that they were all wiped out as Brann never encountered any new ones.
steel venture
Dark trolls were described as the tallest during Cataclysm-based material.
So they are taller than Zandalari.
steel venture
Outside of in-game material though, like the magazines and such.
hollow dock
I thought you were extinct. who said you could exist?!
uncut vault
other trolls*
hollow dock
Did you shave yer beard?
proud karma
No zan are huge
steel venture
a female zandalari stood over vol'jin when he was standing UPRIGHT. in his novel
uncut vault
voljins also a cuck so
vale sedge
Cataclysm is still newer than WC3. So if we're talking about retcons: here we have a factual one. I don't care to judge if it's good or bad, but it is a retroactive change. The disappearance is not a retcon, it's fine.
steel venture
a whole head taller than him, whilst upright
proud karma
Yeah they're suuupeer tall
uncut vault
but who knows. guess thats what island inbreeding does to a tribe
proud karma
?
Bigger than gilneas
steel venture
Actually to be honest it makes sense they're probably huge due to their isolation.
proud karma
Hehe
steel venture
Two things happen when something is on an island.
hollow dock
Its not a retcon as again,
uncut vault
I more meant the darkspears island
vale sedge
"Huge due to their isolation." wish it worked like that in real life.
steel venture
Island gigantism, or island dwarfism.
uncut vault
a lot smaller than zandalar
hollow dock
no informationw as actually given and only canon infrences by Brann were made.
inner belfry
its cause their mothers were hamsters and their fathers smelled of elderberries
steel venture
Given the MASSIVE wildlife on Zandalar, it only makes sense that Zandalari are huge as well.
hollow dock
As I said, between the Third War and The Hammers attack, no others had appeared anywhere else on Azeroth. So Brann assumed they must have been wiped out, now its possible they simply sailed for Zandalar.
steel venture
And why something as tiny as the vulpera are getting their shit kicked in.
hollow dock
My own theory was that they dug deep underground and have become a new subspecies of troll corrupted by the Old Gods.
proud karma
If you want me to be a stickler, nothing happened to the zan at all
All other trolls and elves came from them
terse patrol
i want my playable ogres reeee
dusky ginkgo
Eh Xanu, do you remember real life example of Island gigantism? I remember the tiny island elephant but I don't remember the giants ones
hollow dock
Well the Zandalari, Amani, Gurubashi, and all the other troll species weren't all Zandalari at one point IIRC.
vale sedge
I said that disappearance was not a retcon. What I did categorize as retcon is their height as "the tallest of the trolls" When it comes to the height of the Dark Trolls we have the information, it's the in-game models from the Third War. If we're gonna go only by texts and ignore the in-game information, then why care to make events for the game at all or care to make them fit the lore? If the in-game appearances don't matter and in-game events don't affect lore then why bother?
hollow dock
They were just conquered as by the time the Titans got there
it was just the Zandalari empire
and it comprised of all the troll tribes
Anything predating the Black Empire is pure speculation as there are no records since reorigination happened.
proud karma
Zan empire
Old god general woken up
Zan leaders told everyone that they could settle a place they saved from old god nonsense
Everyone did
25 thousand years later, they're different folk
steel venture
@dusky ginkgo Galapagos tortoises. //sagenod.
Their ancestors were smaller than they are.
hollow dock
Oh yea so they were. The zandalari empire didn't come up until after the Reorigination process happened and the Aqir were swarming about.
steel venture
The giant moa also are an example, although they were hunted to extinction during say the 1300s / 1400s by the Maori.
hollow dock
But yea they were all the same race.
dusky ginkgo
@steel venture I forgot them. Thank you!
steel venture
❤
raw sorrelBOT
steel venture
Oh! Also fossa. Their closest relatives are mongoose and yet they're the size of large dogs.
vale sedge
Eh.
hollow dock
yea hatbot at work
strong python
guys?
hollow dock
CHRISTMAS HATS 24/7
vale sedge
I wonder when we'll get Night Elf paladins since they've introduced two of them in Legion.
uncut vault
I mean, I expect a combo dump in 9.0, but the classes on the alpha arent final
vague igloo
well they are confirmed to exist at least
proud karma
Undead too why not
vale sedge
Sir Zeliek my favorite of the Four Horsemen, don't @ me.
vague igloo
but Blizzard wont give us the paladins because we somehow need to keep some kind of Paladin to Druid to Shaman ratio between the factions even though they aren't exclusive anymore
steel venture
Except they broke that in BFA already.
Highmountain and Zandalari get druids, alliance gets none.
vague igloo
I couldn't care less if the alliance got 5 new druids races or paladins, even though I play mostly horde
all this bickering is idiotic
proud karma
Prelates are as close or even closer to pallies than sunwalkers are in some ways
uncut vault
well, if Alliance gets kul tirans, they get druids with it probably
proud karma
Oh yeah
hollow dock
@vale sedge so then Whitemane is your new favorite horseman right?
median halo
kul tiran druid doesnt sound right though
steel venture
nah.
uncut vault
theyre a thing
vale sedge
I want a Silver Covenant High elf paladin. Wanted since BC because I never wanted to join the Horde as a blood elf. But it won't happen because we got Void Elves.
hollow dock
Neither does Troll Paladin.
steel venture
kul tirans are the descendants of gilneans fam.
proud karma
and anyway, belf pallies mean there's tons of horde pallies so
uncut vault
hollow dock
Where does it say that Xan? O.o
median halo
Yeah but I thought gilneans didnt get close to nature stuff until their curse
vague igloo
I think Dark Irons should be shamans since they had shamans as NPCs before, just like the Paladin for the Zandalari
vale sedge
@hollow dock I honestly never played through DK campaign, but considering she's former Scarlet Priest — sure. That sounds rad.
proud karma
They've lost their separation
hollow dock
Oh shit
vague igloo
they exist in the lore, no need to stretch anything like they have done in the past
hollow dock
yea they are
steel venture
Oh. That's always been a thing. Hang on lemme find it---Oh lol, you found it already?
steel venture
So yeah.
It explains why the architecture looks like a navy-based gilneas.
And the similar theme with witches and monsters.
vague igloo
I also don't get the "if you like Pandaren and Vulperas you are a furry", but Taurens and Worgen are fine
vale sedge
^^^
hollow dock
And Erotic, Whitemane uses the Light in death. She's the better Zelike.
If you like any furry race
you're a furry and a weebin my book
proud karma
Oh worgen are furries
vague igloo
lol
proud karma
Tauren too
uncut vault
Id understand not giving us zandalari paladins if they just left prelates in ToT, or even if they just added some prelates to Zandalar and left it at that
steel venture
Sethrak / Naga / Saurok > All.
vale sedge
@hollow dock Zeliek uses the Light in death too, she's just the same then. I'm confused.
proud karma
Fur? Furry
vague igloo
I like Trolls/Orcs/Goblins the most
hollow dock
She's the new Zeliek
uncut vault
but they made them prelates of Rezan, who troll priest draw their light from
and called them holy warriors
hollow dock
The replacement
vale sedge
Cool. Whitemane ftw then.
steel venture
Scaled monsters are just cooler than furry ones TBH.
vale sedge
Go radical religious fanatic ressurected as the thing she hates the most.
Love the irony, love it.
hollow dock
3/4 horsemen are just replacements for the originals
Darion is just a horseman again.
vague igloo
but I don't really dislike any of the other races
echo dock
the beta is out??? or is it still alpha, sorry for coming in suddenly
steel venture
and then you have nazgrim
uncut vault
darion was never a horseman
hollow dock
Yes he was.
steel venture
his father was
uncut vault
alexandros was
vague igloo
wasn't it his father?
hollow dock
He took his place as the horseman didn't he?
uncut vault
Yeah, in Legion
steel venture
No, he was always a DK. He took his father's place during Legion.
hollow dock
When he stabbed himself with the Ashbringer to free his daddy?
uncut vault
but baron rivendare took his place in the scourge
vale sedge
He replaced his father. That's how he took the Corrupted Ashbringer. So at one point he was a horseman, IIRC.
hollow dock
Like as far as I remember, that's the story
vague igloo
don't remember my lore correctly anymore 😛
vale sedge
Even if for a short time.
steel venture
... bleh. i didn't much care for that story so i may be wrong
hollow dock
He stabs himself, takes his dads place, gets sent to Hearthglen
vale sedge
So yeah, Darion is just a horseman again.
hollow dock
thenRivendare takes his place after that
uncut vault
he was never made a horseman. He was just the Highlord of Acherus
steel venture
I think it was that he was GOING to be one, but the whole ... stabbing himself with Ashbringer made Arthas use Rivendare instead.
strong python
I still have fate we will have Zandalari Paladins and Dark Iron Shamans
vale sedge
Anyway, I checked Wowpedia and I got it. Portergauge is right, he was never made a Horseman, however stabbing himself with the Corrupted Ashbringer is what made him a death knight in the first place, not what prompted Arthas to choose Rivendare instead. What did prompt Arthas to choose Rivendare is the fact that Darion freaking threw Ashbringer into Tirion's face (still don't understand how it didn't cut Tirion in half) thus allowing him to cleanse it and make it Holy again.
hollow dock
which is one of the few things that always bothered me.
vale sedge
Fun fact: Tirion in ICC still uses old Ashbringer model, they didn't replace it with the Legion one, the old model is still in-game and is used throughout the whole WotLK expansion content. I mention it because that's not how they always do it, sometimes they replace the old models completely, like with ghouls, abominations, worgens, etc. I know those are NPC models and not weapon models, but still.
hollow dock
Granted that it isn't canon, but the Corrupted Ashbringer event in BC and Vanilla gave us an indication that nothing could clean it to the legendary status
uncut vault
if Im honest, the old model has a better design. New one is obviously HD, but the old one looked at least somewhat like a real sword
hollow dock
because most swords have a floating disc
vale sedge
Most swords are not one and a half hands wide with no indication of being sharp whatsoever. 😃
hollow dock
TBH, all the weapons in the game look fake.
that's the point of it being in a video game
uncut vault
yes but aside from that, the blade length and width were somewhat close to a real sword. New one looks like a person sized slab of metal
hollow dock
Like Armageddon, the dragon axe in Nefarions,
vale sedge
I honestly like anime-like big weapons. Remember Armaggeddon? But even Armaggeddon was sharp. You could see an unrealistically strong person (say, an orc) cutting someone with it, instead of using it as just a very strange mace.
hollow dock
It's not meant to look real, its meant to look cool and a sword made of fire looks hella cool.
On everything but an orc
vale sedge
New Ashbringer is nothing like it. It's practically flat on the "cutting" edge.
hollow dock
the weapon clipped into the ground
vale sedge
YES, and it was the BEST thing about it.
mellow pasture
The big weapons likes Ashkandi and Armaggedon just looks silly , sure the weapons itself looks nice tho
hollow dock
that's all that theyre meant to do. Look hella cool
uncut vault
Im not even saying it needs to look realistic. Obviously a blade with a floaty disk isnt realistic. But it at least looked like something you'd use in a fight, even if you need to be an eleven foot man
mellow pasture
cliping through the floor as well
hollow dock
You'd use a stick tied to a rock in a fight port? How about an axe that's twice the size of your body? A sword you can't actually swing?
Like, I think its silly to judge Ashbringer on looking unrealistic
vale sedge
There's a difference. When it comes to clipping, you understand that it's an in-game bug, and that ruins the immersion, sure, but you understand the reason. With the sharpness, it's a whole different thing. If a sword is not sharp and looks like a plastic toy, you don't believe it's a sword. Armageddon was believable despite the size because you knew that even humans in WoW are stupidly strong and probably not even close anatomically to humans on Earth. But sharpness of weapons still adhered to the same rules in WoW as it did in real life.
hollow dock
against all the other weapons in the game that are just as, if not MORE, unrealistic
uncut vault
huh, interesting, looks like blizz is actually making zandalari paladins no longer a thing in canon
"We are broken.
The light of Rezan has left us. Only a handful of those that followed the great king of the loa will have any sort of power, and even they are suspect.
Our life was devotion itself. Now who do we become?"
hollow dock
It stopped doing that at the first raid tho Erotic
mellow pasture
So when Rezan dies they lose the connection?
tulip sun
Ya
mellow pasture
Blizzatd just don't want zandalari paladins :c
tulip sun
He dies during questing
hollow dock
Ha.
mellow pasture
What about Zaurfang btw? doesn't he want to talk to Anduin about something?
rich apex
still doesn't get why paladins are apparently central to Zandalari racial themes
hollow dock
Because they're cool and appear in Tot
wet dune
they ware sacred warriors of the Loa
hollow dock
and we players are spoiled brats
rich apex
Okay, that is fair 😛
uncut vault
its weird, cause this will also mean no zandalari priests
uncut vault
That troll priests get their light from rezan too
hollow dock
Well not entirely Port
tulip sun
They can get it from others
hollow dock
you can argue that troll priests can draw from more than 1 source.
uncut vault
I mean, same should apply for paladins then too
mellow pasture
Can't they tap from the source that Rezan get's his power from?
hollow dock
Indeed,but these paladins had just lost their god they drew from, unlike others who worship other loa
and it doesn't seem like there are other Zandalari paladins like there are priests.
strange falcon
blizz could pull it like this,there are no zandalari paladins at launch,but after we resolve all the stuff on zandalar in like 8.2 or whatever
we get zandalari paladins
proud karma
There are a lot of loas
rich apex
We'll know when they actually put player Zandalari on the beta~
proud karma
And if you please one enough they will help you in whatever way they can
steel venture
Yeah, the classes RN are likely not final yet.
like, lets be honest here.
if they were
vulpera would have freaking paladins and DKs.
they're toggled on for the animations right now.
rich apex
It's almost like datamined file labels of an alpha aren't a final confirmation for a race that hasn't even been implemented as playable in said alpha
olive mirage
pretty sure they just have most class specific animations for most skeletons because of transformation items
like when i turn into a Dwarf, my druid casting animations still work
uncut vault
Well, thats more because basically every skeleton gets new anims
just look at vulpera, mix of panda and worgen, can also use player anims
mellow pasture
The vulpera is using the same rig as the goblins
lol
even has the same default stance
strange falcon
i'm starting to think that vulpera are hopelessly going to be cursed to be alliance
what a shame
mellow pasture
The models are even almost the same, just change the head
hollow dock
'Heres this race that's mostly interacting with the horde and is saved by them. They'll turn their backs and go to the other side garunteed'.
uncut vault
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIRX_D57QgE This shows the mix of animations best
mellow pasture
nice
olive mirage
i can def see the worgen idle you were talking about
uncut vault
also look, snitties
hollow dock
SNITTIES
I wonder if theyre going to use the Sethrakk rigging with the Worgen stuff in their rework.
steel venture
NO SNITTIES.
hollow dock
YES SNITTIES
tropic trail
From what I'm seeing the zandalari male troll straight back?
steel venture
Yes.
tropic trail
For players?
steel venture
Night elf male skeleton, so yes.
proud karma
orcs will also be getting the option to change posture!
hollow dock
I'm amazed that information has eluded people at this point
tropic trail
Awesome
hollow dock
Because its been 4 months since blizzcon when all of this was public knowledge.
tropic trail
^^
proud karma
sorry if that seemed flippant btw
hollow dock
Im just amazed at how much it was pushed in the battle.net app, since theyre in this discord they clearly do see the latest-news posts.
dense plover
i mean wowhead also has a big post with all of the info
hollow dock
I honestly think it'd be pretty funny if the Zandalari, that's also showcased on the battle for azeroth website as straight backed, were hunched over for players but all the NPCs had their straight back.
tropic trail
Well you know never know bliz logic
terse patrol
rip no zandalari paladins
tropic trail
That's really sad how they lost the connection to the holy light as holy warriors :<
hollow dock
Well to their diety that gave them their link to the light
tropic trail
Don't know the lore if it haha
hollow dock
Honestly most of the 'stupid blizz logic' is explained in the lore.
tropic trail
Yes? Imma have to find a video of it
hollow dock
Well that depends on the lore you're wanting to learn.
steel venture
Rezan can come back though.
hollow dock
Nobbel over on youtube and twitch is your best bet for video format.
steel venture
There's the issue.
tropic trail
Zandalari and their purpose
hollow dock
Purpose? what do you mean.
steel venture
Wild gods are eternal.
Wild gods thus can come back from the dead time and time again.
tropic trail
Nobble**
hollow dock
Nope he spells his name Nobbel.
uncut vault
rezan even comes back in the dungeon
proud karma
is he inaccurate?
tropic trail
My keyboard on phone is different layout
uncut vault
but I suspect theyll set up the zandalari either transitioning to another loa, or to the light itself
tropic trail
Ragnaros keeps coming back
tropic trail
Twice
hollow dock
once.
tropic trail
Molten core
hollow dock
When he was summoned here, we pushed himback into the Firelands.
hollow dock
He never officially died.
tropic trail
Too much for me.
hollow dock
Hence why he had said too soon to executus. He wasn't powerful enough when he was rush summoned in.
proud karma
I don't mind accents as long as I understand a person
hollow dock
Well I find it charming.
Kinda like Kil'jaeden. We just weakened him at the Sunwell for him to get sucked back into the portal he had made.
hollow dock
Yup as with any demon, they perminately die in the Nether.
Otherwise, they're just sent back there if we kill them here.
tropic trail
He is doing weird stuff with his voice making everything sound draggy and stuff. LokoTV got a better accent, but he's a Starcraft content creator.
Think we should find a way to blow up the twisted nether so they can't come back 😂😂
hollow dock
well. We sorta did find a way to do that.
hollow dock
We defeated Argus, the titan shoved into a titan keeper body, which was the Legions Battery to rush revive everyone.
steel venture
Argus was being used to accelerate demon regeneration.
Think of Argus being the quick-respawn point for most demons.
hollow dock
So while demons will never fully be wiped out, their numbers are far more finite.
steel venture
As now it should return to how it was before Sargeras created the Burning Legion.
Demons are endless in number, but they can be culled to spend decades if not centuries regenerating.
tropic trail
I see so if I'm reading this right if we destroy Argus some what stop some demons?
steel venture
And if they die in the Nether, they're done for.
hollow dock
We dont fully stop them, but we greatly slow them down.
tropic trail
Ooh interesting
steel venture
The titan, Argus, is now dead. The Legion is no longer a "Legion" because of this now.
hollow dock
With Sargeras now gone though, the Burning Legion is in shatters.
steel venture
It was being used as fuel for the fel for 25,000 years.
And thus why the Burning Crusade could spread over the cosmos.
tropic trail
Interesting
steel venture
Now they're in utter and complete disarray and embody chaos. Just as they originally had.
Sargeras turned demons into a weapon because of the fact he unified them beneath his control.
tropic trail
Ooh that true I remember reading that
steel venture
Now without it it's kind of going to be like how Satyr are on Azeroth right now.
Most Satyr have their own groups and goals, are scattered around, and an overall nusiance that can be a major threat if not culled.
It's a nice little parallel to use as an example.
uncut vault
I suspect in the future we'll see malganis with a band of demons following him, but otherthan that they wont be a major threat
still a threat and scattered around azeroth but not an invasion
hollow dock
Yup. And with the remants constantly doing powergrabs, I reckon most of the demons will be to busy with themselves to care about their 'grand crusade' anymore.
steel venture
We might see a flow of demons willingly joining the Illidari and Black Harvest now.
TBH.
hollow dock
The Council of the Black Harvest.
tropic trail
Warlock.
hollow dock
They're the higher ups of the Warlocks, the best of the best.
tropic trail
Ooh duh
steel venture
If Matron Mother Malevolence willingly joined the Illidari, I see many other demons doing the same now.
And she only did so because she found Sargeras was "boring." ffs.
hollow dock
Well, they'd have to get cured of their Fel craze before that happens
which Illidan only did because of the Black Temple
Remember, he did make his own mini-WoE where the three faced boss is. That's how he got so many demons to his side.
jade basalt
Not necessarily, there's a man'ari eredar seemingly "helping" us in Dalaran, and that mo'arg dude in Shattrath from TBC.
hollow dock
Assuming that's not obsolete, since that was in the Warlocks quest to get the Green Fire.
For em to go to the Illidari in droves I'd imagine such.
steel venture
I assume most intelligent demons would realize if they wish for self-preservation they should submit to the Illidari or Council of the Black Harvest though.
hollow dock
Indeed.
steel venture
As they no longer are protected by the Burning Legion.
tropic trail
It was not mentioned in World of Warcraft: Illidan book tho', so I think they kinda forgot.
hollow dock
I imagine though this situation is like the Covenant in Halo. No leadership, but still armed with ships and weapons far to powerful for themselves so they start to war with each other for control and supremecy.
uncut vault
we also see that during the 7.2 campaign, the illidari managed to win some of the eredar they imprisoned to their side
terse patrol
Kil’jaeden was killed in the nether. Archimonde was not, so he’s out there somewhere.
uncut vault
(and also reunited kayn and altruis as lovers)
hollow dock
Canonically he was Honk
tropic trail
wait a min
steel venture
No, Archimonde was cannonically killed in the Nether.
tropic trail
if the titan was suppose to protect the universe how come they let argus the unmaker live?
terse patrol
And considering Archimonde had a piece of corruption from the Rift of Aln, that means he may be working for the Void in secret. He was always about power.
hollow dock
Mythic difficulty version of all the raid fights is the canon way they go and Archimonde pulls everyone into the Nether and he dies there
jade basalt
He was working with Xavius. Xavius "officially" helped the Legion, but his true allegiances lay with the Old Gods.
hollow dock
^
steel venture
Argus the Unmaker wasn't found by the rest of the Pantheon.
uncut vault
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yatQxUDi1I&t=4m6s As of now Archimonde is dead
steel venture
Sargeras had already KILLED the Pantheon when he found Argus.
hollow dock
Xavius and his old god forces worked with the Legion, assumidly under the guise of 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'.
uncut vault
"maybe we'll change the canon but archimonde is dead dead" is basically what he says
hollow dock
So they just agreed to not mess with each other and take out their common enemy.
I can't get over how Cox's little avatar looks like Honeydews.
tropic trail
i see
I think Archimonde is permanently dead, but if he isn't. He could create a potential threat. And eveeenn theeenn.. it's highly unlikely because Argus was the one pulling the Legion out of the Twisting Nether.
Archimonde is permantely dead
hollow dock
Yea. It's pretty clear they're keeping him and the Legion's leadership dead or out of the way.
tropic trail
He got mass dispelled x1 000 000
hollow dock
What I can't wait for is people to start saying 'Sargeras was right'
#SargerasDidNothingWrong
tropic trail
Sargeras' solution was to kill everything though
I don't understand why Sargeras just didn't activate the world reorganisation protocol on all the worlds that were ordered by the Pantheon.
hollow dock
When hedestroyed the pantheon, he severed himself from it
steel venture
Basically I can see it that the Shivarra that remain will likely split away, the Mo'arg will fight amongst themselves, the Eredar will try to form a chain of command amongst themselves and attack other demons, Sayaad will split ... Observers and beholders will return to what they were prior to their allegience to the Legion
etc etc
tropic trail
He could still access the controls.
steel venture
Nope. He had to make a new prison for Argus.
hollow dock
He couldn't actually. When he severed himself, he lost all the pantheon once had.
steel venture
Remember, he's fel now. Not arcane.
Titans represent order, Sargeras became chaos.
hollow dock
Yup. Even if he gave the order, the constructs on Azeroth all knew what happened.
steel venture
So he couldn't speak with Agalon to reoriginate the planet.
Nor would any of the Keepers trust him.
Especially not Ra. Ra got the clearest picture of his betrayal.
hollow dock
Yup.
steel venture
It's why the legion had to subtly corrupt titanic races.
No titanic race would respond to or respect Sargeras anymore.
tropic trail
He wouldn't be able to get there to begin with. Could have used legion to fel corrupt them all like the maidens of virtue
hollow dock
Yup. Which is why it took so long for him to get anything done. He has to physically move through space and the nether to get around hte universe, unless summoned.
Its why the Legionwas trying so hard for so many times to open a portal for Sargeras.
steel venture
Which is why he used the bigass portal Illidan made to get to Azeroth finally and at least be able to STAB it out of spite
hollow dock
Yup. And left his sword behind.
uncut vault
slightly off topic, but I wish they emphasized the whole corruption stuff, all that red dark titany building stuff looked amazing
steel venture
He was the fel cloud that was gathering around Azeroth during the raid.
uncut vault
but we only really get to see it for two and a half bosses
jade basalt
There is literally no indication that Sargeras was unable to use titan machinery controls, that's a huge conjecture. But he would probably have to get there himself and access them, which he couldn't. And Ra had no idea what happened with the Pantheon, all he had figured was that they were dead, not the how or why or when.
tropic trail
Pretty sure the cloud around azeroth was a protective shroud
steel venture
Titans can zoop their souls all over the place, but physical forms have to literally run across the Great Beyond to get anywhere.
... it was fel green fam
and sargeras popped out of it.
uncut vault
the cloud around azeroth in antorus was sargeras
hollow dock
Elera Sargeras came from that same cloud.
jade basalt
The cloud was Sargeras himself. You can pause the video after he is grabbed by the Pantheon and you'll see that all his lower half is just a cloud, he has no legs.
uncut vault
titans can turn into celestial dust when descending on planets
hollow dock
You could say theyre cleeple
steel venture
Hence why all of the Chroncile artwork represented them like that, they could look more physical or they could be stardust.
tropic trail
Mhmm.
And even on the planet map ingame you've got Aman'thul hover over Azeroth while half of him is a cloud.
Much like Sargeras did in the cinematic.
steel venture
Which is why Azeroth was having nightmares, she might be asleep still but she still KNOWS what is going on.
And her freakout over Sargeras arriving, sands, blood, etc.
She predicted him stabbing her.
hollow dock
She knew what was coming.
steel venture
If he couldn't corrupt her he'd kill the poor girl in her sleep.
But he got pulled away so she's basically fatally bleeding to death, slowly and agonizingly.
hollow dock
I'd make a very inappropriate joke, but I dont think this is the right crowd for it.
steel venture
And we fight over her blood.
tropic trail
We can conclude.. Sargeras is a pedophile.
hollow dock
AS I think Hyper had said,
"Magni why are you fighting to save Azeroth instead of fighting the horde?!"
http://78.media.tumblr.com/f0a1660f74d8b1da60ef2ff83b1677dd/tumblr_n8dp3740lZ1tec4rjo3_r1_500.gif
steel venture
HONESTLY THAT.
I WOULD HOPE WE GET PEOPLE THAT SABATOGE THIS CRAZINESS.
BECAUSE ITS LIKE GUYS AZREOTH IS DYING
hollow dock
the planet is literally dying
and we care more about the fact that some dude is wearing red or blue
steel venture
she is literally screaming so loudly it's even causing magni pain
meager warren
no, i think it was "Why aren't you fighting the Horde instead of fighting to save Azeroth?"
and then that image
tropic trail
Wouldn't Alleria feel it too? She had this connection with Argus.
meager warren
BfA is gonna be like Corporate America
hollow dock
She didn't have the connection with Azeroth.
steel venture
No, she would've felt Argus's death. But not Azeroth's screams of pain.
tropic trail
Magni doesn't have a connection with Argus either, but he could still feel him.
steel venture
Magni is very different too.
hollow dock
Because he reached out for him
tropic trail
So we can conclude that once you sense a titan, you become attuned in a way.
steel venture
Magni literally has become titanforged diamond.
hollow dock
Alleria could reach out for Azeroth in theory like she did with Argus
jade basalt
It was more Argus reaching out to her (because Argus had literally been tortured for 25 000 years so when some random show up you bet he's gonna scream for help), than Alleria having some divine gift that allows her to sense world-souls.
steel venture
She could, but it isn't going to be as easy as Magni doing it.
Yeah exactly.
If Azeroth senses Alleria could maybe help she might.
But now that Alleria is void she probably will not.
jade basalt
She will avoid her.
steel venture
Since y'know.
hollow dock
all things considering when we go down into that titan chamber
steel venture
She's covered in parasites that are trying to take over her mind that ALSO use void.
hollow dock
@jade basalt Was that a fkin pun
inner belfry
@jade basalt i se what u did there
tropic trail
Covered in parasites wha'?
hollow dock
The Old Gods.
steel venture
old gods are parasites
tropic trail
Ah, Azeroth yes.
hollow dock
The four that are left are essentially overgrown parasites.
steel venture
and its likely the titants wanted a parasite that eats parasites in g'huun but it failed
titans*
hollow dock
Who knew that using old god blood in a titan construct would give it old god powers and sentience?
tropic trail
I just hope we can heal Azeroth.
meager warren
obviously that was a pun.
they italicized avoid
steel venture
Who knew!!!
Literally not like it sounded like the worst idea ever to begin with!
hollow dock
"What could possibly go wrong?" - Famous Last Words.
steel venture
no wonder xal'atah mocks the titans
(also if anything i still want her to "convinently" get into Azshara's hands.)
that she just gets... an OVERLOAD of power, and its like "lol welp. bye buddy. remember how i said I was very easy to lose? //BAILS"
hollow dock
I just want it to be confirmed which old god she came from.
tropic trail
The tentacle hentai one D:
steel venture
i 100% feel like the only reason xal'atath is midly salty over the naga is because her owners beneath the see were probably everyone BUT Queen Azshara herself
sea**** ugh
laggy af discord moments
meager warren
"What could possibly go wrong"
"Well, Azeroth could be consumed by the Void,
The Legion could return in greater strength and since we were stupid enough to get rid of our artifacts, it wouldn't be difficult for them to take over,
Zandalar could ally with Isle of Thunder and take the Horde out, leaving the Alliance to do everything alone,
Return of Garrosh,
Return of Arthas and Nerzhul"
tropic trail
If Azeroth gets taken over we lose.
meager warren
shut up
tropic trail
It's /game over/
meager warren
ye
hollow dock
I kinda want us to fail savingAzeroth
inner belfry
arthas is dead.... there is another one in place of LK.... legion is done with... no sargeras = no legion
meager warren
Bronze Dragonflight, mah dude
hollow dock
Theyre not allowed to change the main timeline anymore
tropic trail
Bad dragons!
meager warren
The Infinite Dragonflight doesn't care about the rules tho
tropic trail
What about the violet dragonflight?!
hollow dock
its not a rule
inner belfry
i dont think even they can return sargeras xD
hollow dock
its a specific state the timeline is in
tropic trail
Or the Nether dragonflight.
meager warren
basically, 30% of the dragons can manipulate time
hollow dock
Nozdormu used up all his titan energy within the Dragon Soul to bind our main timeline together, knowing he wouldn't be able to fix it should something break post deathwing.
There's no dragon here or in the future that can break that until maybe Chromatus. But blizz is never bringing back that OPPOS
meager warren
Bliz will do whatever is "convenient" if not consistent to do whatever it takes to progress in what amounts to a bizarre story that oddly mirrors the bible
tropic trail
Oh my.
inner belfry
come on guys... chromatus has ben with us always lol..... CHROMIE
uncut vault
warcraft in spaaaaaaace
tropic trail
Azeroth gets destroyed, Chromatus breaks free and whooppssyy daisy.
World of Warcraft 2: The Beginning
meager warren
well, there IS scifi in Warcraft. :murloc:
tropic trail
#LightforgedDraenei ❤
hollow dock
this games had sci-fi elements since day 1.
tropic trail
Gnomes.
inner belfry
gnomes and their engeneering as well
meager warren
wonder if we'll ever explore the stars.
GOBLIN AND GNOMES WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE AN EPIC SPACE STATION THAT PLAYERS CAN EXPLORE
hollow dock
Theres not much left to explore tbh
meager warren
that we know of
hollow dock
Legions kinda burned over everything or was in the process of burning over everything.
uncut vault
we'll go find subject nine on a different planet
hollow dock
An entity in the marvel universe that devours plants.
I dont think those raptors made it to the moon, Port
rich apex
Ugh I wish we could lose Azeroth
meager warren
planets.
Galactus has devoured thousands, if not millions of planets in every Marvel universe.
Yet, there are still billions left
rich apex
Have something actually change beyond the occasional lore hero death
And losing a couple cities
tropic trail
There's a raptor on the moon, isn't there?
hollow dock
Well yea because Marvel has a similar universe to our own.
terse patrol
inner belfry
galactus was a pu**y
hollow dock
However, we don't really know the state of Azeroth's universe.
meager warren
who's to say that Warcraft isn't a similar universe to our own?
tropic trail
Portergauge is right tho', let's visit Subject 9!
hollow dock
Because the legion flat out tell us that we're the last ones left to join or burn
meager warren
the legion is infamous for lying
hollow dock
Ethereals aren't on any specific planet. Outland's already burned over and crumbled into just a bunch of floating rocks.
inner belfry
i want ethereals as a playable race!!!!!
uncut vault
inb4 ethereal empire
hollow dock
they have trade empires but theyre about as stable as the goblin cartels.
uncut vault
we meet the nether-king somewhere
hollow dock
We meet several nether princes.
meager warren
Ethereals are the remnants of lost civilizations that fucked with one of the elements
uncut vault
though really, I honestly speculate that locus walker used to be the leader of the ethereals, before they were ethereals
hollow dock
they lost their planet to a void lord.
meager warren
i.e, they lost it to Void
hollow dock
it literally just devoured the planet
meager warren
and left them alive?
uncut vault
also nether prince haramad is friendly
hollow dock
the resulting explosion turned them into what they are now.
meager warren
can we talk about how Azeroth's universe is just like our's?
hollow dock
We can't cuz there's a very large likely hood that it isnt.
E-sports time boys. Smell ya nerds later.
inner belfry
yea ... same chance as me marrying Kate Upton 😛
meager warren
who?
misty blaze
Jaina is best waifu in game 😃
meager warren
hey, you're the one who calls the warlock artifact knaifu
hollow dock
yea and that's not weebish.
hollow dock
Yes but the Knaifu is perfection and not related to anime. Waifus are though. Knives aren't. Fit me 1v1 rust. no quickscopes.
meager warren
ha, ur weebin.
disqualified
tropic trail
Is there any link to see the new sets in 3D? http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/697550.jpg
rich apex
New items aren't in the dressing room yet
zinc sandal
hollow dock
Boobs in the thumbnail
bitter ibex
not my proudest fap
hollow dock
Why wouldn't it? It's tyrande.
hollow dock
tyrande in a sexy santa suit.
sudden oak
also its not the lock artifact you uncultured swine its the shadow priest one
and knaifu is perfection
her whispers only wants to make us powerful
meager warren
ye, guess who doesn't care
slate ingot
well rip zandalari paladins
plain vigil
Nah Rip Dark Iron Shaman
gilded drum
I despise Tyrande, personally.
meager warren
same.
it's because of her the Nightborne are Horde-only
uncut vault
I mean, not really. It's because of Blizzard, and from a canon standpoint, Thalyssra, that theyre Horde only
meager warren
o.
mb
jade basalt
Yea, the most logical choice would've been to.. not jump head first into a global conflict that does not concern or affect you and turn against 2/3 of the people who literally freed your city and your people from the Legion, and remain neutral, and develop friendly relationships with the blood elves, sure, but without submitting yourself to a "Horde" led by a "Warchief" because visibly these are not peaceful terms.
But, they needed to be playable, and thus had to be forced into a faction, and the Horde made more sense than the Alliance because they were friends with the belves and Tyrande didn't really want to be BFF.
meager warren
The most logical choice is allowing individual Nightborne, not Nightborne as a whole, to choose which faction they wanted to be. The Alliance also helped them and how do they repay them?
steel venture
More like half of the people TBH.
Because what did Veressa even really do?
In the camps she hardly even had any troops with her and was bumming in the corner of the Kaldorei side.
rich apex
It's almost like Liadrin sold her a hilariously biased depiction of the Horde and Alliance
(Tho the blood elves -are- the ones who actually share a similar culture)
meager warren
I also don't really see how the blood elves and Nightborne are "BFFs" after what little time it was that the events of Legion took place.
rich apex
Magic bros
meager warren
they're similar in that the Nightborne were "corrupted" by the Nightwell and the Blood Elves were "corrupted" by the sun well, but... that's basically it.
And wouldn't it take more than that for them to be BFFs?
rich apex
The blood elves are the successors of the highborne culture that the nightborne have managed to preserve for the last ten thousand years
And Blizz decided to do something with the nightborne instead of having them disappear from the plot like neutral factions usually do at the end of their expansion, so gotta start somewhere
meager warren
so the Blood elves are basically the younger sibling of the Nightborne.
Got it.
Still doesn't really answer how they're BFFs tho
rich apex
Because the nightboren are looking for a place in the world and the blood elves are the most familiar and welcoming people they've met so far
If Thal had checked out the world for longer than five minutes, maybe she'd have reconsidered
But that's the tragedy of Allied Races being recruited solely for fresh bodies for the meat grinder of war
meager warren
ok. that makes more sense.
and ye
rich apex
Bonus points that it's a war that they have minimal to no stake in
meager warren
Even with that though, I think it'd make more sense for all the Allied Races aside from Zandalari Trolls, Dark Iron Dwarves, and Mag'har Orcs to be neutral.
In that, players could choose what faction they want them to join
maybe that's just me tho
frosty matrix
It'd make the most sense, but I get the feeling that Blizz doesn't really want to do a "pick your own faction" race again
steel venture
wasn't going to work with fucking happy pandas
meager warren
Bliz doesn't want to do that, sure.
But i think it'd be better if they did that
Because, if all the races became "Pick your own faction" races, the Horde and Alliance would become more ideologies than they would be groups of specific races, which is what they are now kinda.
Sure, they also are ideologies but you're not going to see a race that is considered of the Alliance embody any Horde traits and vice versa
rich apex
but then they would actually have to make the Alliance and Horde stand for some kind of ideaology beyond 'we're humans/orcs + pals and we don't like orcs/humans'
meager warren
yeah.
and it'd be worth it.
because then the Horde/ Alliance wouldn't be so bland
rich apex
'oh god our faction war unleashed n'zoth, now we have to fight with the humans/orcs to defend azeroth'
'but we're going to forget this lesson in the following expansion'
Because then they'd actually have to come up with justifications for the faction war beyond 'flagrant misunderstanding', 'i must seek vengeance for past crimes', and 'we have to wipe them out before they wipe us out, but we'll never actually be forced to face the moral dilemma of actually coming close to wiping them out'
meager warren
Says stuff like "We can't do this without the other faction" or "For Azeroth!"
Also says stuff like "Die, Horde Scum!" and justifies murder with racism
Feelsbadman.jpeg
frosty matrix
I think you guys are expecting more from Warcraft writers than they've really ever lived up to
rich apex
Faction leaders character develop into wise, level headed leaders who won't rush into a pointless war in the face of a greater threat
Immediately get killed off
Well
There was once a nuanced story
About how the orcs weren't actually just mindless savages
And, given the opportunity to determine their own fate, they were able to play a vital part in saving the world, and established their own society
meager warren
after 20 years, i feel like expecting them to do better is kinda beneficial
They've had 20 YEARS to do it right and nope
rich apex
And when a biased, ignorant human tried to destroy that, despite the pleas of his own daughter who knew them better, he was rightfully killed because he was Super Wrong
(in before BfA makes Daelin a martyr instead of an attempted mass murderer)
frosty matrix
How is that being contradicted though? The orcs haven't exactly regressed all of a sudden
frosty matrix
Garrosh is an outlier
meager warren
Is Grom also an outlier?
Thrall?
Durotan?
They've all done shitty shit
rich apex
But Blizz doesn't know how to write the faction war without the Horde being horrific aggresors
meager warren
Bliz doesn't know how to write. Period
rich apex
Murdering a few goblin miners doesn't count for shit if Sylvanas lights a city on fire
(Assuming she did do it, anyways)
meager warren
it does though.
if you think you're better than these other people but then go ahead and do the exact same thing that they did, you don't get to say you're better
rich apex
And when Genn runs off after his grudge like a jackass, he trips over a (relatively) evil scheme by sheer dumb luck
meager warren
kek
rich apex
It should, yes
But Genn and Rodgers sure never get called out by the narrative for being jackasses
frosty matrix
I think hoping that the writing team will do better is kind of like Cubs fans waiting for a pennant; yes, it's theoretically possible
But like it did for them, it's prolly gonna take a longass time
rich apex
Didn't the Cubs win a World Series a couple years ago? 😛
frosty matrix
Yeah, but it was like a century since their last, which was my point
meager warren
20 years is a longass time.
They've had 20 years to do better.
At this rate though, i'mma chalk it up to Bliz can't write
rich apex
But yeah. Point is Blizz keeps forgetting the noble part of the noble savages that the Horde are supposed to be.
frosty matrix
They cut certain corners with writing based on what they feel will sell
rich apex
So they can have a convenient excuse for PVP
frosty matrix
Also the Orcs were really the only "noble savage" race
meager warren
i feel like "noble savage" is contradictory
rich apex
Sylvanas -used- to be all 'what are we if not slaves to this curse'
frosty matrix
I mean, I suppose, but none of those races have really stopped being altogether noble
It's kinda really only the Forsaken
rich apex
Well, savage as in how they live as a tribal hunter society
frosty matrix
coughSylvanascough
meager warren
What are Draenei and Night Elves, if not savage, by that logic
rich apex
Well, night elves used to be
frosty matrix
Draenei had a pretty advanced society
rich apex
Draenei are too civilized
meager warren
had being the key-word
rich apex
Still built pretty impressive cities on Draenor
Considering Draenor is a horrific Warhammer 40k Death World
meager warren
didn't you just say WoD was irrelevant
frosty matrix
I think the implication was more wanting to pretend that aspects of the story/lore during that expac didn't happen
rich apex
My beef is with the orc bits of WoD 😛
frosty matrix
i.e: wod
meager warren
Orcs did what they had to do to survive in WoD until Garrosh showed up
rich apex
Oh for sure
It's just trampling on the thematic thrust of the orc story
That they were an honorable, if savage, people, until KJ started dicking around with them
(Of course, by the time Garrosh intervenes, they were already well down a dark path, but everyone ignores that point)
frosty matrix
My guild had a joke all throughout WoD; if we had gripes with anything about the Orcs, we'd just say "Chris 1k"
From a gag someone once made calling Metzen Chris "One thousand orc dicks in my mouth" Metzen
Simpler times
meager warren
lol
rich apex
If Metzen was working on it, he wouldn't have made the orcs into petty villain caricactures
Maybe
uncut vault
I mean, I highly doubt anyone really worked on the lore of the orcs
probably just got abandoned for Legion and the dungeon designers figured "hey these are enemies, lets stick em somewhere"
"whats a lich king btw"
rich apex
The lore didn't exactly extend much beyond 'what different aesthetics can we give to the orc clans'
'okay uhh'
meager warren
they were probably just, like...
"Hmm, how can we make the story not make sense in any way and make everyone just be dicks?"
that is, if they thought that far ahead
rich apex
'we got smith orcs, bdsm orcs, extra savage orcs, void orcs, garrosh orcs...'
meager warren
lol
subtle flower
Did I see someone say Draenei are TOO civilized? O_o
spiral harbor
lol
cinder knoll
Orcs went to dark path not since Garrosh, but since Gul'dan
and maybe even since Ner'zhul, who was Gul'dans master
not sure if this applies to both our and WOD timeline though... but I guess it should, as timeline changes mainly with Garrosh
because if I remember, it was Archimonde (or KJ? not sure) who took form of some orc ancestor (I think Ner'zhuls dead wife?) and manipulated Ner'zhul against Draenei, later when he realized, he got betrayed by Gul'dan, who took his place
so, not really orc fault
now when I think about it, it was most likely KJ as he was the one who had personal problems with Draenei
sullen dagger
afaik the demon who corrupted the orcs was mannoroth
cinder knoll
not really, he was just the liutenant responsible for last phase
when they got really corrupted by demon blood
previously they were just manipulated to think Draenei are their enemies, not really corrupted
tropic trail
In the book the use of warlocks, aggression against the draenei and industrialization all seem to be connected to the turning away of the ancestors and furies , and as the green grass went brown the brown orcs went green. The blood of Mannaroth resulted in bloodlust, increased strength, and made the orcs that drank it like slaves
cinder knoll
yes but thats what happen after what I was talking about
frigid umbra
It was kj that messed with nerzul and guldan, and sent manaroth to give them his blood to fully control them... in both scenarious... dif is grommash did not drink the blood in wod version
cinder knoll
ye so what I thought 😃
frigid umbra
Yup
hollow dock
Ye. tho they've always been ruthless savages suffering from bloodlust. Legion just took advantage of it because the Draenei were found there.
cinder knoll
but maybe they wouldn't war against them as much
hollow dock
Nah they hardly cared, and in fact traded with the Draenei. They were at relative peace before the legion.
misty blaze
yrel had big boobs i hop she returns 😃
hollow dock
Can we not do that?
mint arch
