fan paintover edit on left, offical on right.
#beta-ptr-spoilers
meager warren
I LIKE THAT ONE
uncut vault
now thats just a fat wolf
meager warren
ur a fat wolf
steel venture
still better than a braindead chihuahua
meager warren
ye
steel venture
and MOAR edits
this round is "give them actual faces with varied geosets if they're gonna go HD"
rustic mountain
I just think the model in general just isn’t appealing lol
steel venture
which is why blizzard is going to actually take their time with it this round
zinc sandal
I'd like it to be more "wolf" and less "hairy woman"
rustic mountain
Don’t hold your breath tho on it
meager warren
right? i wanna see a female werewolf. not a cavewoman
jovial coral
They should just looked like males
Like how dogs or wolves are but I guess a little smaller with boobs
hollow dock
or just remove the boobs
steel venture
arenanet still and will always put blizzard to shame with how they handled their beast race
hollow dock
and leave little 'humps' like everyone else.
hollow dock
why do they have horns
meager warren
the one on the left looks like the thing from Fallout
strange falcon
steel venture
Tyria's kind of a place of mish-mashed animals, so Charr are minotaur-cats. It's Anet's stylistic choice to try and prevent things from being too earth-like.
Also, pretty fine. Their most recent expac brought in a lot of folks again.
Anyway though literally when they were designing playable charr.
dusky ginkgo
That's a female charr with the nicer head possible too
steel venture
One of the developers stood up and gave an ultimatium.
Charr are felid.
So if you're going to make females, no breasts---or you HAVE to put six.
dusky ginkgo
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7b_t7QBjDn0/maxresdefault.jpg This is also a female charr
steel venture
So they went with no breasts.
The toga sash covering the chest literally is just a cultural thing versus a censorship thing.
dusky ginkgo
Honestly, the only way ingame to make the distinction between a female and male charr is to look at their tail
steel venture
nah. female charr do get less snarly appearances most of the time
but the tail is the actual giveaway yeah
since male ones have lion tails and female ones have cat tails
dusky ginkgo
Well, you have the choice. They have snarly appearances too, it's just that players don't always use it
steel venture
Ye, no. I know. I have one on GW2 lmao.
They get marginally less snarly faces than males though overall.
A handful compared to the mostly gruff male ones.
hollow dock
their horns
steel venture
I doooo think though now it'd be a better time to move to #no-wow-discussion
dusky ginkgo
I'll stop flooding here, I was rping and abandonning my partner there
crystal forum
Plz dear lord let blizzard realize how fucking broken half the models are
meager warren
but they've not talked about fixing orc female models, goblin female models, gnome female models, etc.
i think the only female races that are good are undead, dwarf and tauren
tulip sun
What is wrong with the gnomes and orcs?....
They said the goblins are getting new ones already
hollow dock
Goblings are getting tweaks
steel venture
HD model is still an HD model.
meager warren
orcs just look like human female models with bodypaint and fake tusks.
gnomes look like tiny human female models with a mask.
steel venture
that's literally always how they both have been
since vanilla.
blizzard's sexual dimorphism is awful.
tulip sun
....what do you expect?
meager warren
you seem to be either confused or you're not reading what i'm saying
tulip sun
Your saying you just have a personal opinion on not liking how the models are. There is no actual problem with them
Therefore nothing is going to be fixed.
steel venture
if you actually look back to the vanilla ones
orc females always looked like bodypaint humans with a gruffer face and features
meager warren
oh yeah.
because Tolkien totally wouldn't be shocked at how Blizzard destroyed female trolls and orcs
steel venture
and gnome females always were micro-human female models
tulip sun
Tolkien has nothing to really do with anything.
meager warren
gnome males look a lot less "sexy"
meager warren
WoW is based heavily on Tolkien's literature
steel venture
all of fantasy is based on tolkien's literature.
hollow dock
arguable
tulip sun
There is no reason to bring him up though
steel venture
all of fantasy is based on sterotypes and hollow shells of tolkien's literature*
better?
most if not all.
hell literally the generic fantasy elf is based only on legolas versus the entire race that tolkien created
meager warren
fine.
anyway, they should stop worrying about making their races "sexy" and make them look "good"
jade basalt
Hey Wildhammer dwarf females do have beards, in fact the males find full, voluptuous beards more attractive
meager warren
^
tulip sun
In reality, no one would play females. Or at least a majority wouldn't, if they made them fugly.
jade basalt
I didn't follow the conversation, just dropping female beard facts.
meager warren
well then, those people shouldn't be playing WoW
steel venture
Player models are based on what will sell.
tulip sun
^^
steel venture
The art team get's minimal influence otherwise.
Do not blame the art team, blame the higher ups shilling out the same crap.
Which is why female worgen ended up so awful.
the lead developers didnt like the alpha model. told everyone else to scrap it
and then we got the travesty that is the live model
its also why female draenei have scoliosis and look like an entirely different species
compared to the males.
meager warren
i'm not blaming the art team.
i'm blaming whoever thought it was a good idea to make all the races' female appearance look like human models irl
steel venture
tfw the joke model had a better face than the first round of the actual dranei update though
terse patrol
<_€
terse patrol
steel venture
and then the actual release was sameface.
hollow dock
that's me right now Honk
steel venture
that had to be fixed in 6.1
y'all don't seriously think i prefer the joke model right?
if so y'all are high.
but literally they were told to waste model time on a joke
terse patrol
dude you can never tell with this chat
dense plover
you mean the dadloc?
with the momloc?
and its just the story of murmeo and julieloc
hollow dock
ITS A BEAUTIFUL LOVE STORY AND I WANT TO DO IT MORE
terse patrol
where is this at
steel venture
southern suramar by the beach before you get into val'sharah
hollow dock
My hat stays.
rich apex
laugh track
mental onyx
which is the joke model?
tulip sun
I love that all races are now there
rich apex
I am highly amused by panda Kor'kron, but yes ,it is great that they are hiring other races now
Now give me a buddy cop comedy between a grouchy old old who's super annoyed that a cheerful panda is his new partner in the Kor'kron
haughty trail
steel pawn
mint arch
@hollow dock with dat anime avatar~ 👌
meager warren
that's a void elf, i think
tropic trail
looks more like a nightelf, void elves don't have pink skin and blue/teal hair
meager warren
o right. touche
hollow dock
This is an artists depiction of tyrande.
mint arch
tyrande-chan
sullen dagger
so, the horde is getting the orcs, what will the aliiance get? the mechanognomes?
THE INJUSTICE IS REAL
TIME TO PUT THE TINFOIL HAT ON AND THEORIZE, MY BOIS
also, g'morning
cloud fossil
I’m thinking it will be Kul Tirians
cloud fossil
I’m thinking at some point, maybe the last patch, Alliance will get Vrykul and Horde will get Drust. Beards for all
hollow dock
There arent any friendly Vrykul left, as much as id want them in.
cloud fossil
There will be Vrykul in BfA, they might be friendly lol
sullen dagger
way too much warmongers
hollow dock
If theyre not serving odyn, they'll be hostile to us.
cloud fossil
Idk, Blizzard has just been throwing a lot of Vrykul at us lately and it seems like a good playable race, though I have no idea what existing character rig would work on them
languid yoke
horde gets orcs, alliance gets the hidden orca race
cloud fossil
Can’t lie I’ve wanted Vrykul since wotlk lol
hollow dock
Yea because theyve just been relevant. An entire ancestral home will have a lot of em.
If we ever do get them, allied race is not the right way. A full functional race is the proper way as Vrykul would need new models to fit properly on mounts, get proper animations, etc.
meager warren
The lich king can summon Vrykul.
After Wotlk, a good Lich King was anointed.
hollow dock
Undead Vrykul*
meager warren
o. well, close enough
hollow dock
https://i.imgur.com/hclQXC1.jpg
Allied races in 2019 if yall had your way.
meager warren
pls no
steel venture
Can we like not link that due to the transphobic joke?
Everyone forgets the apache thing literally was designed to belittle trans folk.
uncut vault
Oh I didn’t even notice that, yikes
hollow dock
(It was actually made to belittle the people who made hundreds of new sexualities in an effort to label themselves differently and be special snowflakes)
meager warren
that still doesn't mean it's not LGBT+ phobic.
Every one of those "new sexualities" like Wolfkin, Dragonkin, [whatever the fuck] is LGBT+ phobic as well.
When one stoops to the level of another to let the latter know it sucks, it is shown that the former is no btter
hollow dock
Lemme ask ya this arson before I take it to the PMs: are you LGBTQ+?
meager warren
no but what i am, is empathic
i don't need to experience something to respect that something
hollow dock
Glad we cleared that up, Arson.
meager warren
👌
steel venture
PSA: It wasn't a sexuality it was literally.
"I sexually identify as <xyz>"
Which is a horribly transphobic mention stemming from the EXTREMELY out dated term of "transexual."
And made to compare trans issues to a "huge reach" to shut down threads by spamming said copypasta.
hollow dock
Yea people are assholes and take jokes to far on the internet. What else is new?
meager warren
in general, but not in this case
hollow dock
Unless approached by the party supposedly being offended, I do not take down or rescind jokes.
hollow dock
Interesting, rather than a talent tree it'll be a glyph system for PVP talents.
jovial coral
Sounds good to me
jovial coral
There's jokes in wow
hollow dock
Sanic isnt Ugandan Knuckles.
sullen dagger
i'd go with the same race
uncut vault
I mean, the game names are usually "Sonic the hedgehog" and knuckles is an echidna so
hollow dock
Normies not knowing basics reeeeeeeeeeeee
crystal forum
Gotta love scrolling through and seeing mean "jokes" about LGBT+ people
hollow dock
It's LGBTQ+ actually.
marsh star
It's either, but the plus implies everything that isn't directly included.
willow frost
Any one on the BFA alpha mind answering a question ? :<
brisk remnant
Any hints of optimization yet with the current announced system specs for BFA-Alpha? The specs seem higher then they should be; considering these are much higher then the Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt- which is our current visual bentchmark in PC gaming.
willow frost
.< they're two completely different games tho???!?!?
brisk remnant
You mean the Engines.
They are two completely different Game Engines. My curiousity is from a Gaming Engine point-of-view.
uncut vault
the announced specs are recommended, not required
brisk remnant
The Minimum is higher though. which makes me wonder about the alpha's current state of optimization
September is still far out though. xD i'm just wondering if anyone knows Alpha's current state spec-wise.
willow frost
If you can load into dalaran quickly on a high pop server you'll be fine XD
brisk remnant
@willow frost I probably will be. 😃
brisk remnant
I think a big part of me just wants to know what crazy stuff blizzard is doing this time. The system specs scream "VR-support" to me currently, but VR seems super far-fetched. xD
The new Coloring and gradient techniques are already inuse for Legion.
So i'm just wondering what crazy stuff BFA will be doing. 😮
hollow dock
Edgys emote privalges are back
hollow dock
Oh good continuity
meager warren
At this point, i don't think continuity is high on Bliz's priority list
rich apex
hollow dock
What's not consistent? Other than character actions. It's pretty consistent to show the mummified trolls considering the Sandfury is around here.
rich apex
I'm worried people are missing the joke because I had to cover up Fonzie's head with Grom's, but I couldn't find a pic of him actually jumping the shark
uncut vault
I didnt see that model datamined, are those wrapping NPC armor?
hollow dock
Nah that's not wrapped armor. The wrapped armor model isn't as dingy.
terse patrol
@rich apex Seeing my warchief waterski is a privilege
rich apex
😐
terse patrol
he will thot slap sylvanas and take her place
rich apex
screams internally
Saurfang: sylvanas is destroying the integrity of the horde with her warmongering
Also Saurfang: only orc warchiefs are allowed to do that
sudden oak
you are saying it like the only individual that wants to fight is Sylvanas
rich apex
Saurfang wishes he could be as honorable as Dadghar
And that is kind of how half the internet is interpreting it
Big bad Sylvanas is dragging poor, innocent orcs into a war against their will
sudden oak
the horde and the orcs were going into a war either way Sylvanas just decided to strike first
frosty matrix
I mean, datamined broadcast text shows without a lot of doubt that Saurfang, at least, isn't happy with the way things are going to start with.
sudden oak
Saurfang is not happy because 1 Sylvanas is using the plague and 2 he doesnt care what happens as long as he and his people die with honor meanwhile Sylvanas wants to keep the horde alive no matter what
frosty matrix
Yeah, exactly. I'm not saying that there wouldn't have been a war either way at some point, but there's a huge disparity in the Horde leaders' preferences for how to go about it, and in that way, Sylvanas is definitely in her own camp, at least to some degree.
sullen dagger
she wants to keep the undead akive
rich apex
The datamined text shows Saurfang's only concern is the blight and the tactical sacrifice of Horde warriors
frosty matrix
Which is the main reason, I think, that people are seeing her as the primary, individual instigator. Whether that's technically true or not, she's certainly her own.
undone wasp
who trynna boost me im lvl 103
hollow dock
"I wanna keep the horde alive. BY SLAUGHTERING ALL OF MY OWN PEOPLE."
frosty matrix
Oh, no doubt. Like I say, the reason that people are seeing Sylvanas as the main "villain" of the piece isn't necessarily because she's dragging the Horde along, but the fundamental disagreements about how those sacrifices should be treated and undertaken kind of paint the other leaders (however accurately or inaccurately) as somewhat unwilling or begrudging.
sudden oak
the alliance is sieging undercity and sylvanas is trying to evacuate undercity of civilians and they are short in time
also since when is Sylvanas slaughtering all of the horde?
hollow dock
I mean. I see her as a villain because she's willing to do whatever it takes to get her way. Whatever that way is, if she has to sacrifice her own people to get it, she's more than willing to do so.
I was making a joke about how you said sacrifies are needed in war
sullen dagger
'xcep ther valkyries, cause muh lives
rich apex
Sylvanas isn't a -nice- leader, but she's not a dumb one
hollow dock
and sylvanas wants to save everyone
rich apex
Aside from being obliged to start a war
Because of course the Horde starts the war
If Sylvanas didn't care about anyone, why sacrifice much more useful warriors for the sake of saving civilians in the Undercity?
sullen dagger
sylvannas cares about the undead
sudden oak
Sylvanas clearly says this horde is worth saving when saurfang starts to speak about "honorable death"
Sylvanas cares about the horde
sullen dagger
stop cpunting
hollow dock
I never said she didn't care about anyone Hyper.
rich apex
Fair enough. Meant that in general. 😛
uncut vault
I mean, I thought it was obvious something in Before the Storm will shift her ideology from caring about just her forsaken, to caring about all of her people
hollow dock
If she had to use her people to buy time, she does so without a second thought.
sudden oak
she is using soldiers to save lives of civilians
rich apex
Ugh, I can dream that the novel will be used as the opprotunity to have Sylvanas really care about teh Horde
hollow dock
Because its what she wants.
rich apex
And the whole Horde, not just her own people
Oh she'll absolutely sacrifice people if she feels it's necessary
hollow dock
Again, like I said, if its a way she wants; she'll make whatever sacrifices she needs to without a second thought. Which is why I believe her words ring very hollow on wanting to save the horde.
To her, there's no consequences for dying.
uncut vault
wot
rich apex
She's inevitably going to say 'the only way to save the horde is to cripple the alliance'
It's not like she's shedding tears over the deaths of those people
And, of course, gotta have dat faction war
hollow dock
If they die, they get risen as undead. If they're alive, then they keep fighting for her. Its a win win for her no matter what.
sudden oak
since when can she rise as undead other races that are not humans?
hollow dock
Any race can be risen into undeath, except the Gilneas worgen due to their ritual.
Elves, Orcs, Tauren, trolls, none of them are safe from being risen.
rich apex
But val'kyr can only raise humans so they don't have to make an undead model for other races >_>
terse patrol
Sylvanas has already said she’d raise blood elves as Forsaken.
hollow dock
all forsaken share the human undead model, despite some being elves before Cata, because its easier that way
terse patrol
And if the datamined text is right, she threatened Saurfang with undeath.
rich apex
Totally expecting Sylvanas to start raising fallen blood elves when we get Undead Elf Allied Race
And then tell Loth off when he complains
uncut vault
undead elf would have to be like, being risen very shortly after dying
hollow dock
Her word is law in the Horde
sudden oak
I mean we can always have san'layn remnants from wrath as allied race
terse patrol
Lor’themar threatened to have Sylvanas killed if she so much as touched his dead rangers.
uncut vault
sanlayn remnants arent really a thing
terse patrol
So
hollow dock
unfortunately all the San'layn were wiped out in the ICC siege (As far as I remember from WotLK)
terse patrol
Looking forward to seeing how that transpires
hollow dock
He made that threat when they were on equal ground
terse patrol
I know
hollow dock
but now Sylvanas rules over Lorth
sudden oak
If some Val'kyr survived the ICC siege why not san'layn?
terse patrol
But I foresee “Im thinking about going Alliance again” electric boogaloo 2
rich apex
Lorth ain't got shit on Sylvanas
uncut vault
sanlayn were wiped out at ICC. Im sure darkfallen elves are still possible, what with all the vrykul vampyrs
but the san'layn are gone
hollow dock
Because the Val'kyr purposefully broke off from the Scourge and joined the forsaken
meager warren
he'd probably rather join the Alliance than let her take his rangers
rich apex
'i'm thinking about going Alliance but the plot will come up with fresh contrived reasons for me not to because game structures can't change'
terse patrol
^
rich apex
But oh man
I will -laugh- if we get vampire elves
On the bright side, that will distract from the 'fox people ruining RP' bit
terse patrol
hisss
rich apex
Because clearly vampire elves will ruin RP
uncut vault
I mean, if we ever get undead elves, that basically fills the looks for vampyr elves
sudden oak
I doubt lorthemar will try to go alliance again after the dalaran purge
uncut vault
the red eyes and grey skin are kinda their thing
terse patrol
They can’t laugh at Alliance getting emo elves then
hollow dock
Hyper
rich apex
I would bet on stock undead elves before sanlayn, yes 😛
terse patrol
Because the Horde would have Advanced Emo Elves.
hollow dock
vampire elves have existed since WotLK
in RP
and its been cringe the whole trainride out of that expac
uncut vault
cant tell you how many secret sanlayn princes Ive seen in stormwind
sudden oak
also san'layn are undead elves
rich apex
I meant Dark Ranger undead elves 😛
sudden oak
oh
rich apex
Which are different from undead vampire elves
hollow dock
San'layn are actually the specific group of scourgified undead elves whom drink blood to sustain themselves.
uncut vault
vampiric undead are different from normal undead, anyways, but Horde undead elves are typically banshees bound to their body
rich apex
Normal undead elves seem a pretty obvious Allied Race choice
hollow dock
They all happen to be undead elves.
rich apex
Probably not soon, but if the system continues into 9.0
So they can give us all the elves, again
uncut vault
still betting high elves and undead elves will go together
cause who doesnt need more elves
sudden oak
also what is the problem with people thinking vulpera are going to be an alliance allied race?
uncut vault
especially if Quel'thalas becomes a relevant faction battle area, both are probably the best choice for either side
hollow dock
Because we hate repition
hollow dock
and weebs are illegal
rich apex
Etc
meager warren
Sylvannas is more powerful than a mere undead or vampire
uncut vault
tbf DKs did ruin RP for a while
rich apex
-if- Quel'thalas becomes relevant
uncut vault
DKs were a fucking mess
hollow dock
Oh god the edge lords
sullen dagger
still are
uncut vault
I mean, blizzard writing isnt subtle
hollow dock
claiming to be arthas' pupil
rich apex
Wow i can't believe DKs invented edge lording
sudden oak
I really hope the exodar and silvermoon get a revamp
uncut vault
if they have Alleria outright say she wants quelthalas back for the alliance
rich apex
I would not bet on it fam
uncut vault
chances are shes gonna try to get it back for the alliance
rich apex
Ehhh
uncut vault
fail, most likely
sudden oak
Alleria can go die in a pit
uncut vault
but try
hollow dock
I dont think Alleria wants it back
meager warren
i mean, the DKs during the DK starter quest, were Arthas's pupil
rich apex
I doubt Alleria was thinking of siegeing her own city
sudden oak
yes she does
rich apex
She wants the blood elves to defect
She doesn't want to murder them for choosing the Horde
uncut vault
she says it in the embassy
hollow dock
Alleria knows the dangers of her and the Void Elves to exist at the Sunwell
sudden oak
she wants quel'thalas back for the alliance
meager warren
why does Alleria hate the horde?
sudden oak
even when she doesnt know what happened to the high now blood elves to join the horde
because orcs
rich apex
It would certainly be interesting to see her actually face the consequences of everything and be forced to directly go to war against her own people
hollow dock
She was around for the first and second wars Arson
rich apex
But I don't think Alleria's jumping at the chance to attack her own people
hollow dock
when the orcish horde went on an utter rampage of Azeroth, slaughtering, raping and pillaging her people and others of the alliance.
rich apex
Alleria missed the entirety of the Horde's character development
rich apex
And the current status isn't exactly helping
hollow dock
^^
uncut vault
shes been repeatedly very scornful towards the Horde and Sylvanas
rich apex
Ain't like Jaina's telling her 'oh yeah the orcs redeemed themselves'
uncut vault
on the Vindicaar and in the Nightborne induction
sudden oak
nor her dear sister Vereesa
rich apex
Alleria went to Silvermoon in the first place to try and convince Lorth to defect
hollow dock
See the Sunwell all that good stuff
rich apex
Not to threaten him
hollow dock
then void shit happens.
sudden oak
no one gave her a memo of what happened with the horde meanwhile she was gone
rich apex
And Lorth was frosty to her even before the void shit
hollow dock
She gets kicked out and insert 'THIS. MEANS. WAR.' line.
meager warren
but the original Horde doesn't exist now.
It's gotten a lot better. Except, Garrosh and Sylvannas have brought back how it used to be
hollow dock
It doesn't matter Arson
You dont forgive a thousand years of festering hatred
just because they're slightly less like the dicks they originally were
sudden oak
Garrosh brought it back Sylvanas is fighting to keep all the horde alive
rich apex
Who would ever do that
sudden oak
not just orcs
meager warren
i would if the descendants of the people i hate are better
hollow dock
But she doesn't -know- they'r ebetter
that's what you keep missing. She's unaware completely and is fed very biased information on them
meager warren
ye, because she doesn't possess any manner of common sense.
what else is new?
rich apex
c y c l e o f h a t r e d
uncut vault
bias is very intentionally being written into characters
hollow dock
It has nothing to do with common sense.
rich apex
No one ever has common sense in the faction war
meager warren
it has everything to do with common sense
sudden oak
no one in the alliance is going to tell her how the horde is better than the old horde
hollow dock
If she's told absolutely, the horde are warmongers
uncut vault
rich apex
Until the last ten minutes when N'zoth shows up
hollow dock
and the horde are WARMONGERING
opaque sentinel
There's no common sense, and there's no sort of inter-faction communication.
hollow dock
She doesn't need much more than that
uncut vault
thats alleria's post nightborne induction line
hollow dock
she's a soldier
rich apex
'one day Silvermoon will stand with the Alliance'
Not 'i will burn Silvermoon for the Alliance'
frosty matrix
Exactly. She's missed the entire space between the second war, and now. The Horde's current actions aren't exactly stellar, and nobody is telling Alleria otherwise. She's got a lot of reasons to despise the Horde from personal experience, and there has been ZERO INDICATION that she's borne witness to that has reversed any of them.
uncut vault
she does want Quel'thalas back for the alliance.
Never said she was going to burn it
rich apex
She's deluding herself into thinking she can still get the blood elves to defect
hollow dock
If Garrosh didn't force Jaina's hand, they would have.
opaque sentinel
They very nearly did till Jaina went all thermonuclear on Belf civilians.
meager warren
she'd deluding herself into thinking she has any control over anything but herself
uncut vault
she wants it back, and the current leaders clearly ally with the Horde. I doubt all the blood elves are unanimously in support of Lorthemar
rich apex
In theory, considering game mechanics won't let them 😛
frosty matrix
I think it's less that she thinks she can do it, personally, and more than she honestly believes that the Sin'dorei will defect from the Horde of their own volition.
sudden oak
if Garrosh wasnt an asshole to the belves they would think of deflecting either
rich apex
They're not going to let blood elves defect beyond the void elves
sudden oak
^
uncut vault
I dont think theyre going to defect, or even that alleria will win
but I do think she will try to take back Quelthalas with the Alliance
hollow dock
No one's ever going to win this very pointless war.
rich apex
Can't let someone exist beyond their racial-faction ties, after all, unless they join a neutral faction
sudden oak
most of the blood elves will go with lorthermar
hollow dock
It's just going to be the Jade Forest cinematic
hollow dock
That's literally the summeration of every HvA story in Warcraft history
rich apex
But I can't imagine Alleria's going to be leaping to besiege Silvermoon at the first opprotunity
proud karma
Yeah I was gonna add the purge
rich apex
Because then Silvermoon gets burned to the ground
sudden oak
I mean Vereesa jumped at the first opportunity to kill blood elves in the purge of dalaran
frosty matrix
I think it's unlikely she intends or wants to raise arms against Silvermoon
hollow dock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVZNbmWnWHY Every HvA storyline.
proud karma
The horde goblins renounced the alliance for even less
uncut vault
I mean, MoP shows you can siege a city while doing minimal damage
opaque sentinel
If not for game mechanics and Blizz keeping the faction conflict around for all the "It's WARcraft, no PEACEcraft".
We've had like 6 expansions now where we've gone from: "WAR, Oh shit - there's something bigger than us, Uneasy peace, GOTTA HAVE SOMEONE IN CHARGE DO SOMETHING BAD, WAR."
meager warren
you guys take Alleria and the Horde will take Sylvannas.
The end of the Windrunners (At least, the relevant ones) would make Azeroth a better place
uncut vault
Goblins arent really renouncing the alliance
proud karma
the horde ones are
uncut vault
in fact, gallywix seems to be making a deal with them with islands
frosty matrix
It's not really comparable though; Vereesa has been around to see everything the Horde has done, and the Sin'dorei as part of them along with that
proud karma
harry, you're so right
frosty matrix
Alleria's seen none of it
sudden oak
the goblins went to the horde because an alliance ship attacked them at first sight
because they didnt want witnesses of the attack to a horde ship
meager warren
"It's WARcraft, not PEACEcraft" is a shitty argument since we've been at war with other factions in legit every expac but the expac which the HvA war was relevant
proud karma
"oh we didnt know -insert fact that would have stopped this current issue if it weren't for parody-levels of non-communication here-
uncut vault
I mean, in the end, Alleria is getting her advice on the Horde/blood elves from her anti-horde sister, first and foremost. No doubt she's gonna keep her anti-horde ideals from WC2
frosty matrix
At the end of the day, high fantasy conflict is, by its very essence, always somewhat hamfisted.
hollow dock
Which I dont understand how people don't know she's been out of the loop and is fed biased information
frosty matrix
^
proud karma
"what do you mean voljin was stabbed? oops" and such
rich apex
At least all our prior conflicts actually end, hamfisted or not
sudden oak
also in Legion the alliance attacked twice to the horde without any reason
rich apex
The faction war literally can't end because they can't tell half the player base they lost
And there was nothing tehy could do to stop that
hollow dock
Well. To be fair on the alliances side
proud karma
we all win
opaque sentinel
.. Uhm.
proud karma
pvp everywhere with everyone
opaque sentinel
Why does there have to be a loser?
proud karma
runescape now
rich apex
Because that's how wars usually work
hollow dock
The horde was a sitting target, Genn wanted revenge for Syvlanas attempting genocide on his people and killing his son.
uncut vault
they just need to end it with both sides losing, disbanding the factions and scattering us to our race stuff
hollow dock
Or just do what games like SWTOR did
frosty matrix
The story is always going to seem kind of dumb to some people, because there's no way to end the factions without clearing the table of a huge part of the game's identity and gameplay.
opaque sentinel
We're about to have Azshara and N'zoth in the next X-pac, WE JUST HAD MOTHER FLUBBING SARGARES for pete's ssake!
hollow dock
Ignore the faction stuff for the sake of the story
sudden oak
Anduin told greymane to go on a scout mission
proud karma
zombies fight zombies, gnomes fight gnomes, you name it
rich apex
SWTOR did good
(Of course, SWTOR couldn't afford to make faction specific quests anymore)
But at least SWTOR was willing to actually change the power balance of the setting
sudden oak
and greymane said "lets attack the horde even when we are at war with a demon army what could go wrong"
opaque sentinel
We have known since the Night Hold about Void Lords and Void Planets, and that we have to keep Azeroth safe from them.
But we're still all "LOL, ARMS RACE FOR NO REASON!"
meager warren
"Is the war over, [warchief's name]?"
"The war is never over! We didn't lose, it was merely a setback! For the [faction]!"
hollow dock
Technically Inferos
uncut vault
greymane didnt order the attack, rogers did
proud karma
Harry i so agree
uncut vault
greymane was just happy to go along
hollow dock
Sylvanas reinstigated the war by retreating and leaving the alliance to die
frosty matrix
Yeah, because Sylvanas was totally behaving by trying to take control of Eyir
proud karma
sylvanas "raid boss" windrunner was a plot device
sudden oak
if the horde didnt retreat they were the ones going to die
opaque sentinel
There should have been SOME COMMUNICATION.
hollow dock
So what did the alliance see?
sudden oak
and what about the horn sounding the retreat?
hollow dock
the horde leaving them in a gultch
meager warren
no.
she retreated, for the aim of not getting themselves killed.
The Alliance was too stupid to realize they should've retreated as well and so they blame the Horde for being smart
opaque sentinel
Why did they suddenly go from being on each other's side and planning assaults together to "Sylvanas retreats without reason!"
frosty matrix
The fact is that BOTH factions have done some seriously shitty things, and poor communication, pride, ego, and selfishness are all major factors to the Horde and Alliance not being able to get along.
opaque sentinel
Why did no side hash things out?
This is just cruddy writing to justify contrived conflict.
hollow dock
No one on the alliance wanted to trust a horde that got their beloved King Varian killed
uncut vault
blizz have been writing miscommunication and personal biases in. Not everyone is all knowing of everything that goes on. From Genn's view, Sylvanas abandoned them
proud karma
wait, yeah. thats what i mean. the alliance has nothing if they aren't "AHOY BROTHERS LET'S FIGHT THESE SAVAGE BEASTS" -human pally waves a shiny gold sword-. thus the miscommunication
meager warren
King Varian got himself killed
uncut vault
Genn has no reason to think Sylvanas wouldnt abandon them
proud karma
yeah uh
frosty matrix
Not to mention, Genn was already biased against Sylvanas because of that whole thing where she killed his only son.
proud karma
vris im talking about the writers
hollow dock
I'm talking with Arson
frosty matrix
The problem is that people expect the characters to be reasonable, sensible, and objective.
uncut vault
tfw you yell cover da flank but down cover ya own flank 
hollow dock
^
proud karma
in real life. they can't write anything for the alliance that isn't "the horde is bad!" or "the horde looked bad"
frosty matrix
No human (or elf, or what have you) alive is actually capable of that when there are personal stakes or biases of any kind involved.
uncut vault
I mean, IRL we threaten to go to war over placing defenses slightly near a base of ours
terse patrol
Nobody’s going to win the war. Azshara will show up, and the war will end with the borders we started with at the start of the expac
proud karma
so you get super silly miscommunication, like how not one of them yelled "AH THE CHIEF'S BEEN STABBED" as they ran off
opaque sentinel
Well, true. But I'm fairly certain it's HIGH KING ANDUIN who's in charge now, and supersedes Genn in matters of state. And up until BfA, he's been a big proponent of peace, so they should have got together to meet. Especially after the Broken Shore cinematic where he gets back Shalamane.
uncut vault
threatening war over leaving your troops to die is plenty reasonable
meager warren
"Yeah, i'mma just insult and be an otherwise dipshit to these people for something they did because of me"
hollow dock
Anduins not cared about the horde during all of Legion
frosty matrix
Point of fact, we don't actually know the full story of what's going on with Anudin between the end of Legion (which is yet to completely happen) and the start of BfA
Before the Storm could well have content revolving around that fact
hollow dock
Until Genn and Rogers went and shot at em, which I can 100% tell you wasn't what Anduin was told, theres been no reason to go and reopen dialogue with them
meager warren
Anduin's feelings on the horde weren't shared because Varian was getting all the attention. What with him being dead
opaque sentinel
Except, y'know, the big glaring issue of trying to find out why the Horde pulled back.
uncut vault
Anduin gave them permissions in case of unfortunate events, rogers and genn twisted those permissions. Anduins not exactly gonna kill or exile either of them for attacking Sylvanas, then saving a titan keeper
meager warren
The Horde pulled back for survival
hollow dock
and didn't communicate it
frosty matrix
Anduin was too busy grieving and stressing about not being able to be as good a king as his father to really lay blame anywhere, and that's never been his style anyway.
opaque sentinel
The Alliance doesn't know that though.
meager warren
they yelled "retreat!"
hollow dock
instead they let themselves get painted as abandoning theconflict
they didn't
They never once said it
uncut vault
The main surviving eye witness was genn
do y ou think genn is going to advocate for sylvanas' well being?
sudden oak
no they used a big fucking horn
opaque sentinel
You can't hear them call for retreat, you can only hear the war horn in the Alliance cinematic.
sudden oak
that means "retreat" quite well tbh
meager warren
ye. she blew her horn.
thereby communicating it
hollow dock
Yes indeed. FOR HER TROOPS
opaque sentinel
The Alliance doesn't know why they retreated though.
hollow dock
She didn't send word that she was calling a retreat and that there was more demons coming
that's the lack of communication that you all want to ignore
proud karma
you IC blaming them is surreal im sorry, it's hilarious. it's like i'm talking to genn
opaque sentinel
Because until the Bats started swarming, the Alliance had their half of the conflic under control.
hollow dock
In character I hella blame them for pulling out and not covering our flank
as a player, I know better.
uncut vault
Horde werent at fault there, we know that. But the Alliance dont.
proud karma
it was bad writing because they CAN'T write an alli conflict where the alliance isn't in the right or convinced they are
uncut vault
Thats the point we're making
proud karma
im talking about writers not the bad thing they wrote
frosty matrix
The Alliance doesn't know WHY they retreated, and they aren't exactly familiar with the sound of a giant goddamn horn and what that might mean, especially in the midst of full fledged combat. It's not to say the Horde didn't have reason to retreat, but the point is the Alliance have no idea why they retreated.
hollow dock
Everyone else but you is talking about the bad thing they wrote Barach
meager warren
any reasons the Alliance can think of for blaming the Horde for retreating when doing so obviously helped them and it was clear they were retreating as soon as she blew her horn, is inherently biased
hollow dock
It really isn't
uncut vault
I mean, why would someone fight for something they dont think theyre right on
proud karma
the alliance needs to be -human pally waves shiny sword- so they wrote it that way
uncut vault
do you know how basic human motivation works
proud karma
(poorly)
hollow dock
Yes barach
opaque sentinel
Which is why I'm upset at the writers. Because it makes no sense that everyone would just go back to Stormwind/Orgrimmar and just never speak to one another again.
hollow dock
we all know that
proud karma
so why bother "great game"-ing it
opaque sentinel
There should have been messengers or envoys to try and clear up this nonsense.
But no.
hollow dock
Because Arson and the rest only want to see it from the hordes side
meager warren
how isn't it, Vris?
The Horde retreated for survival.
Any military that retreats does it for survival of either themselves or another party
frosty matrix
So you're telling me that if you were in a life or death situation, and the people who you don't really like but are counting on to help you, suddenly leave without a reason and put your life at risk, you'd just shrug like "welp, guess they had a good reason"
hollow dock
then call us biased for telling them the alliance see it differently
opaque sentinel
We have Faction Conflict, on top of THE BURNING GODDAMN LEGION returning.
proud karma
or someone shoulda yelled, like they were all the instance
meager warren
The alliance see it differently because they're trained to hate the Horde.
Just as the Horde is trained to hate the Alliance
opaque sentinel
Like, I don't give a damn about arguing about who stole what from my wallet while the house is burning down.
proud karma
anyone coulda gone "VOLJINS DEAD AHHH" at any point. even a frightened grunt. but it's silly writing with level 2340372402 coincidences
hollow dock
Because what physically happened was this: The horde left the alliance behind so they could retreat and survive. The alliance is caught unawares by their retreat until its to late for them to pull back.
proud karma
yeah i kno
hollow dock
Im not talking to you barach :v
proud karma
oops
frosty matrix
It's not "training" so much as experience, and a degree of most Alliance/Horde members being in something of an echo chamber.
meager warren
tbh, the fact that the Alliance didn't hear Sylvannas's horn somehow is shitty writing, imo
hollow dock
They did hear the horn
but the horde get to fly out without the need of an airship
the alliance doesn't
proud karma
but if you wanna talk human motivation, some scared person would have screamed "VOLJIN". Heck, like half the foot soldiers would have
frosty matrix
They did hear it, but they didn't know the reason, and didn't realize it was the Horde signaling retreat for just a few moments too long
uncut vault
voljin wasnt dead, but he was hurt, as were almost all of the Horde
proud karma
it's next level silly writing
uncut vault
something the Alliance couldnt see over the ridge
gusty scaffold
Where Jaina could`ve popped in and say: Use my portal and lets get outta here
uncut vault
cause thats how cliffsides work
meager warren
well then, you can't say they "were caught unawares by their retreat until it's too late to pull back."
proud karma
they were talking and bantering the whole time
hollow dock
THEY WERE
frosty matrix
And most people aren't going to be screaming OH NO at someone else injured when they, too, are fighting for their lives.
opaque sentinel
The faction leaders had been yelling to each other over the span of chasms.
hollow dock
They were still FIGHTING WHILE THE HORDE RETREATED
by the time they HEAR the horn and look over
the rangers are gone
meager warren
IF THEY HEARD THE HORDE'S HORN, THEY NOTICED THEIR RETREAT
frosty matrix
They WERE though. They heard the horn and didn't realize it was signaling a retreat until the Horde are basically halfway out the door
hollow dock
^
opaque sentinel
THEY DON'T KNOW WHY THEY RETREATED.
frosty matrix
They didn't know what the horn was indicating yet,
hollow dock
^
proud karma
they were in the arms of the valkyrs! oh my goodness yall. someone is trolling me here i think
frosty matrix
AND they don't know the REASON for the retreat
hollow dock
All they do is hear a horn that's it
they dont evensee the Valkyr carrying the injured away
proud karma
yeah!!! they didn't know!
opaque sentinel
WE AS PLAYERS KNOW IT WAS BECAUSE VOL'JIN AND OTHER PEOPLE WERE HURT OR DYING.
hollow dock
they just hear a horn, look over, the rangers LEAVE
proud karma
that's the whole and only point!
uncut vault
the Alliance knew about their retreat. They didnt know why they were retreating. Just horn, rangers moving away, then nothing until Varian glances over (and probably realizes the truth) before he dies
opaque sentinel
THE IN-GAME CHARACTERS DO NOT KNOW.
hollow dock
^
hollow dock
Yes its stupid
proud karma
ok! cool lol
uncut vault
"characters arent omnicient so its bad writing"
hollow dock
but Arson here doesn't seem to comprehend that
uncut vault
??
opaque sentinel
There -should- have been some sort of communication like "We're all dying up here, Varian! We have to pull back!"
proud karma
Porter one sec
meager warren
if i were Varian or Anduin or Jaina or other Alliance leaders, i would realize that people such as the Horde don't retreat unless it is strictly necessary
opaque sentinel
But no.
frosty matrix
We have a wide-frame and more objective view of events. If you use your imagination and watch the cutscene for the Alliance, you realize that there's no way that most could remain objective about what happened.
opaque sentinel
We didn't get anything.
hollow dock
If I were Varian or Jaina, I'd be to busy worrying about LIVING IN A SWARM OF DEMONS to realize what's going on at this moment with a horde that's MORE THAN WILLING to BACKSTAB the alliance after doing so MULTIPLE TIMES IN THE PAST 2 YEARS
rich apex
TFW Sylvanas retreated out of concern for the survival of the Horde and their leaders
meager warren
well then, Seb, it's good that i don't rely on my emotions for anything
uncut vault
if anything the only bad writing there is that gelbin was completely irrelevant in the aftermath, despite being right there and probably less biased than genn
frosty matrix
When you have huge-as-all-fuck-out demons trying to rip your insides out, taking the time to put the adrenaline aside and calmly reason that the Horde wouldn't retreat unless necessary is kind of on the back burner
rich apex
(But she can't tell the Alliance that, because gotta have PVP)
meager warren
The alliance has backstabbed the horde just as much
proud karma
"Them writing a whole scenario of the horde and alliance leaders bantering, talking even while fighting that huge demon, and then suddenly ceasing any and all talking just only at the point where it would cause rom-com levels of misunderstanding" is stupid
is what i meant
opaque sentinel
(Tfw she just wants more bodies between her and death)
proud karma
they made it possible, then didnt
hollow dock
PLEASE INFORM ME
hollow dock
Horde betrayed the alliance first with the purge
uncut vault
I didnt know yelling from 20 feet away and yelling from hundreds of yards away through a cliff were the same thing
frosty matrix
The purge was, by and large, revenge for the bombing of Theramore
hollow dock
It wasn't
frosty matrix
Or, rather, it justified it in Jaina's mind
hollow dock
the Purge was strickly because garrosh used Dalaran to launch an attack on Darnassus to steal the Bell of Divining
uncut vault
purge was for Aethas and the Sunreavers betraying jaina and using Dalaran to help the Horde
proud karma
porter. bless your heart. I hope you have a really nice day and a tasty dinner
hollow dock
nothing else.
proud karma
ok!
hollow dock
Literally moments before she does it
frosty matrix
Yeah, I misspoke; I didn't mean to say it was the REASON, but I meant that what happened in Theramore would have been something of a motivator
proud karma
ok!
hollow dock
she tells the alliance PC she's starting to come around
proud karma
sure
hollow dock
She believes in peace again and all that good old jaina jazz
opaque sentinel
They didn't betray her, they didn't know what Garrosh was going to do, but as members of the Horde where Garrosh was Warchief and made it clear "If you don't serve a purpose, you're not a part of MY HORDE" they turned a blind eye as to not put the Belf people in danger.
frosty matrix
Oh yeah, nobody's saying the whole Horde is responsible; it's all on Garrosh
hollow dock
SUnreavers are the only ones that could let it happen.
meager warren
Vris, considering both factions are at war with each other, they're both guilty of everything going on between both of them.
You can't blame the Horde for everything in the war
hollow dock
Sunreavers are horde: So what needs to happen?
If they start it
yes I can blame them
uncut vault
Might just be me, but I definitely prefer personal biases and struggles in writing over everyone just knowing everything, but hating each other for reasons. Faction conflict might be dumb, but at least they put in the effort to make the characters initiating it somewhat flawed and biased
frosty matrix
Nobody is blaming them for everything but they've certainly been the instigators more often.
proud karma
i will not say it's interesting
meager warren
The Old Horde started it.
The new Horde is still fighting it.
And no, you kinda can't because that's illogical
proud karma
thats one thing i wont "ok" about
hollow dock
Old Horde didn't go into Dal and force the Sunreavers to BREAK THE NUETRALITY OF DALARAN
uncut vault
everything working out fine and dandy at the broken shore is boring. And even if Sylvanas did communicate to them that they were retreating, and varian still had to sacrifice himself, I bet he'd still tell his initial reaction of Sylvanas retreating to Anduin.
hollow dock
This horde did.
uncut vault
Cause thats who Genn is.
frosty matrix
The problem is that you're assuming that characters with personal bias and negative experiences are going to be entirely logical and objective in their judgements.
pallid wraith
You can't really blame the Sunreavers when they're threatened with death ^^;
opaque sentinel
At this point, I have an 85% chance that: Sylvanas will Die or Nathanos will sacrifice himself for her but she'll have to go underground.
Baine will become warchief of the Horde and will open communications with Anduin because they're bro's. We'll unite once again, and Blizz will find some way to have the two most chill dudes go to war once again by the time of the next Xpac.
meager warren
i like to give the benefit of a doubt to most everyone, Seb
hollow dock
That's great for you
frosty matrix
That's not how people work though, especially in fiction.
uncut vault
But most people dont, and most characters dont
frosty matrix
Humans (and other races, per Warcraft) are highly emotive beings
uncut vault
Especially in Genns case
proud karma
like, they've never ever ever written the alliance any different. I like the lore of both factions, but not where they conflict. At the start, the alliance was made when everyone went "let's fight these horrible orcs!", and it's never changed ever. so they're always either right or they're hilariously misunderstanding
meager warren
certainly not.
But not everyone is entirely irrational at all times
hollow dock
For them, they live in war.
proud karma
and it's sooooooo boring
pallid wraith
At least your name fits you EdgyTroll.
hollow dock
When you live in War arson, your outlook on life changes drastically
uncut vault
I mean, Alliance hasnt been about just fighting the orcs for a while. Certainly wasnt for Legion.
meager warren
But has anyone not had the thought that maybe the war between the Horde and Alliance is pointless and everyone is dying for an obsolete reason?
proud karma
pardon, i should say "let's fight and defend from these horrible beasts!"
meager warren
Jaina and Anduin are still kinda racist
pallid wraith
I would like to see Baine become warchief, make peace with anduin, and since those two are friend's of Jaina she chills and gets the healing she needs
proud karma
you know, that level of shiny boring righteous crusade stuff
pallid wraith
Anduin?! ANDUIN????
frosty matrix
In what world is ANDUIN racist? Jaina I accept, but Anduin????
hollow dock
yews
meager warren
and they shout "For the Alliance" just as much as the Horde shouts "For the Horde"
pallid wraith
Have you played any of the alliance side? At all?
proud karma
who said that? too fast, i missed it
meager warren
"the deepest circle of hell belongs to those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis"
hollow dock
He very much hates the horde clearly. shows constant disdain
uncut vault
I mean, if you think Alliance is all about righteousness, you clearly havent been paying attention to like, any of the faction conflict in Legion
hollow dock
Anduin @proud karma
proud karma
nope saw it oops
frosty matrix
If you're referring to the BfA cutscene, remember that the Battle for Lordaeron seems to take place after the Horde has burned Teldrassil.
proud karma
ok, no, for real, im not fighting you port, im really really asking
pallid wraith
'anduin is a racist' is fucking hilarious
proud karma
when have they written the alliance as the instigators
have they?
please tell me they have
because im saying they NEVER do
frosty matrix
Also? Being for the Alliance =/= being a racist
hollow dock
Stormhiem is the only time in which the alliance has ever shot first.
uncut vault
I mean, thats literally Stormheim
proud karma
see? boring and awful
pallid wraith
Barachiel- Camp Tu'ajo? Sorta? Ish?
sudden oak
im horde and im not letting anyone call that cinnamon roll racist
opaque sentinel
Outside Stormheim, that's the only time.
But that's Genn getting revenge for Varian and Gilneas.
meager warren
i've leveled both Alliance and Horde.
Anduin maintains his neutrality in the face of evil.
He allows his "underlings" so to speak to commit terrorism for the "cause" of the Alliance
hollow dock
Well Tu'ajo was destroyed and the alliance moved in on it
opaque sentinel
And Southern Barrens, yeah.
proud karma
yeah tu'ajo was sorta dead
pallid wraith
.... You aren't playing the same game as us then.
frosty matrix
Where the hell are you getting this from? What underlings? What terrorism? I'm legitimately confused.
meager warren
are you going to provide any argument, Vris?
frosty matrix
I can only assume you're trolling at this point.
hollow dock
You're the one who said anduins racist meng
opaque sentinel
I'm confused.
uncut vault
So if the Alliance strikes first, its boring righteousness crusade stuff, and if they react, its boring righteousness crusade stuff
terse patrol
“anduin is a racist”
proud karma
i am too
pallid wraith
Also that's why I said -ish- for tu'ajo. Even Baine was like 'meh its fine'
uncut vault
taurajo
terse patrol
anduin literally is only interested in non human girls lmao
uncut vault
please stop calling it whateverthat butchery is
proud karma
yeah. if they were ever the baddies it'd be better
pallid wraith
*taurajo, ty
hollow dock
He's only shown interest in draenei
meager warren
anduin is the king of the Alliance.
Therefore, it's kinda his job to control the workings of the Alliance.
Yet the Alliance is still just as guilty of stupidity as the Horde is
proud karma
i copied it bc i couldnt remember, sorry
sudden oak
the alliance also attacked the horde in silithus with the only reason of " they are mining ore lets kill them"
hollow dock
Not that he hasn't shown interest in anything else.
pallid wraith
Anduin hasn't shown interest in human girls because he's in love with Wrathion and I cannot be convinced out of that ship
sudden oak
same inganni
proud karma
;-;
hollow dock
old gods come out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVZNbmWnWHY this all over again. Every single time we have a HvA conflict for an expac
meager warren
Legion is MoP 2.0 since, ya know, Garrosh and Sylvannas
hollow dock
that's exactly how it'll go down.
proud karma
no no the "oh the horde has an eeeeeeevillllllllllll leader again oh nooo" part is what i'm praying they don't do
opaque sentinel
BfA will be MoP 2.0.
opaque sentinel
Legion was their chance to end the Faction conflict.
uncut vault
Still predicting its going to be Sylvanas getting the realization somehow that her vision of hell was a lie, then some random reason for Alliance and Horde to work together to fight nzoth, happy fun times with factions united.
hollow dock
Sylvanas is evil. She's been evil
pallid wraith
who was the moron that went 'lets have sylvanus be warchief" --_-- who wrote that?
meager warren
Thrall, i think
hollow dock
the marketing team
opaque sentinel
^^
proud karma
the "oh sh*t we need conflict" guy
uncut vault
I mean, Vol'jins that moron
meager warren
o
hollow dock
Hey now
pallid wraith
I meant ooc XD
meager warren
then Vol'jin
opaque sentinel
The Writer -behind- that stupid bullshit.
proud karma
i adore voljin dont test me
uncut vault
cant even covah da flank, makes sylv warchief
hollow dock
You don't FUCK against the Loa.
frosty matrix
Loa? More like OLD GOD
proud karma
yeah
uncut vault
only act is making a murder hobo a general
proud karma
OR THAT
uncut vault
horrible warchief
pallid wraith
Which Loa because I need to yell at that Loa
proud karma
see they didnt say
opaque sentinel
It was obviously Ion.
uncut vault
So far Sylv has been a way better warchief, much better diversity quota
proud karma
which is suspect. bwon loves and adores having his name everywhere
meager warren
Chris-something Golden should get rid of Sylvannas during the early stages of BfA and make Baine warchief
uncut vault
alternatively: bwonsamdi is just a fucking dick
hollow dock
Golden adores sylvanas wtf
uncut vault
and wants more conflict from sylvanas
hollow dock
LOL
meager warren
wot
uncut vault
cause more conflict = more souls
frosty matrix
A lot of people think that Azurite is fucking with people's heads and that the Old Gods are manipulating the faction conflict by using it as a catalyst.
hollow dock
But its not
meager warren
how could she adore that piece of shit writing
uncut vault
we're trying to make him a Horde ally in BfA
proud karma
see, the one thing i think is that they won't kill sylv. she's the Only Hot Lady, they profit off of her
uncut vault
give him a million souls, he helps out the horde
hollow dock
Because she didn'twriter her so shittily.
meager warren
Sylvannas is the epitome of flat villain
uncut vault
idk jainas pretty hot
hollow dock
In warcrimes Sylvanas was written pretty well.
proud karma
she's not horde
meager warren
there's Jaina.
Tyrande.
Garona
And dozens others.
Have you been paying attention, Bara?
uncut vault
yet
hollow dock
Have you SEEN Garona?
opaque sentinel
TBH, Sylvanas should have been done after ICC with her suicide, like a proper Greek Tragedy.
proud karma
i have, and i love her. but people would make orc jokes
opaque sentinel
Now she's full GOW3 Parody mode.
pallid wraith
Garona is neutral isn't she?
hollow dock
Same Harry.
proud karma
no 300$ garona statue im afraid
hollow dock
Same.
uncut vault
end of BfA, Jaina standing over Sylvanas' corpse, looks down to her plate bra
meager warren
people make undead jokes about Sylvannas.
I don't see a difference
uncut vault
"there must always be... a warchief"
hollow dock
Garona is with the horde. theres 2 Garonas running aroundAzeroth atm.
meager warren
Jaina, the new warchief of the Horde.
Seems legit
pallid wraith
And Horde has a gideon emery voiced Belf Hotty. They are -set-, he just needs skimpy clothes
hollow dock
Like Jaina's Angels?
uncut vault
they just need to make a goblin that looks like Mama Hong from OW
make her warchief
meager warren
cringe
hollow dock
Yea that looks like a woman who'd carve up a lot of dudes.
uncut vault
her only talent is manslaughter
meager warren
no, no.
she looks like a pancake who'd smack a bunch of dudes
opaque sentinel
We just need Baine w/ Saurfang as an Advisor.
And Anduin w/ A mellowed out Genn.
And there should be no more faction conflict.
People found breaking the peace will be delivered to the offended party for fitting punishments.
hollow dock
WE CAN HAVE PVP IN PEACE THO
rich apex
Nope
hollow dock
LIKE EVERY OTHER MMO
rich apex
Blizz can't hear you
uncut vault
if anything christie golden will somehow mellow out jaina, again, then she'll be anduins advisor
hollow dock
THAT'S HOW YOU EXCUSE IT
opaque sentinel
NO.
rich apex
Ignore the entirety of vanilla and TBC where PVP never affected the plot
hollow dock
PRACTICE
opaque sentinel
I will not see Jaina sit there next to him.
meager warren
WE CAN LITERALLY HAVE WAR WITHOUT THE POINTLESS DRIVEL THAT IS HvA
proud karma
yea
frosty matrix
Honestly, the faction conflict is too profitable from a marketing standpoint for Blizzard to ever remove it.
hollow dock
I can and will see her do that eventually.
rich apex
faction priiiiide
hollow dock
Her time in Kul'tiras is going to mellow her out
uncut vault
I mean, in vanilla, faction conflict basically was the story, and it got resolved with Silithus
frosty matrix
As a business, it's the kind of risk that you seldom, if ever, take.
uncut vault
then randomly opened up again for TBC
proud karma
it's just so.... i just don't like it for the reasons i've tortured you with by repeating so much already haha
opaque sentinel
If she does, I'm packing up and going back to Horde.
rich apex
Horde continues to commit atrocities to restart the war
hollow dock
YOU CAN STILL HAVE FACTION PRIDE IN PEACE
proud karma
YA
uncut vault
just make BG's practice rounds
meager warren
at some point, they're gonna have to remove it unless people love fighting each other for no reason
hollow dock
Why harry?
meager warren
then again
rich apex
Considering all the BGs take place in the past
pallid wraith
Jaina wouldn't, she needs a break.
rich apex
Drek'thar's in a wheelchair now, after all
hollow dock
She's not commited any crimes other than killing her daddy to save a bunch of innocents.
uncut vault
you're saying we havent been fighting for AV for 14 years?
proud karma
it would be profitable to let everyone fight EVERYONE
frosty matrix
Honestly, I think WoW with 0 faction conflict would be boring. I just wish it was written better.
proud karma
imagine the commercials
hollow dock
It wouldn't be Seb!
pallid wraith
I want to see her fly away with her blue dragon boyfriend for vacations
proud karma
"you can fight EVERYONE"
meager warren
it wouldn't be boring
hollow dock
there's literally a huge slew of expacs where we dont fight each other
uncut vault
I mean, it wouldnt be 0 factions, it would be like 16
rich apex
Blizz can't figure out how to write the Alliance as anything but goody two shoes, minus Genn and Jaina occasioanlyl dicking around
meager warren
it'd be the opposite
proud karma
"NO MORE WAR WHEN THERES NO MORE NOT-WAR"
hollow dock
and fight actual dangers of the world
rich apex
So the Horde has to be bad, because they're ugly so of course they are
opaque sentinel
At least the Orcs like Saurfang were basically under mind-control and many of them turned to Suicide when confronting the horrors they'd committed.
Jaina just went on a full-on murder spree out of anger and kept up that kick for the rest of MoP with contstant hostility even with people who are ON HER SIDE, fighting against Garrosh.
meager warren
there'd still be war without the Horde vs Alliance stupidity
frosty matrix
I mean, with no tensions though. And if there's no faction segregation, what's the point in restricting races?
pallid wraith
That's kinda the point though isn't it? If they want the Horde to be evil just go whole hog
uncut vault
I think the point is that there wouldnt be faction restrictions
hollow dock
she didn't do it out of want