i think Anduin would rather have Saurfang killed than let him join them tho
#beta-ptr-spoilers
meager warren
hollow dock
Night elves went horde. Blood elves went alliance. how is that already not pissing on it?
sage tapir
orcs in a faction led by humans
tropic trail
I don't think anduin would have saurfang killed
genn and jaina might want him to tho
hollow dock
Remove sylvybae. Restore proper orc leadership to the Horde.
sage tapir
genn would kill him without a second thought
hollow dock
Not really.
meager warren
Nightborne =/= Night Elves.
Void Elves =/= Blood Elves.
They're both entirely (Or almost entirely, in the case of velves) different races
olive mirage
void elves are literally blood elves
tropic trail
no they're pretty much the same races
meager warren
Genn, the new Manduin
olive mirage
like, they are the same exact race
meager warren
no
olive mirage
yes
hollow dock
I wouldn't say that Slayer
meager warren
shush ur face
olive mirage
Void Elves are exiled blood elves that learned to harness the void
hollow dock
Well
olive mirage
they even speak the same language
hollow dock
not harnssed Slayer
sage tapir
you wouldn't say anything that is sensible
hollow dock
forced to go void*
sage tapir
who forced them
olive mirage
they are not almost, they are the same
hollow dock
I mean.
olive mirage
they are blood elves
hollow dock
Blood elves are light blessed
tropic trail
I kinda breezed through the scenario, weren't they just trying to use the void, but then the ethereals forced them to become part of the void?
hollow dock
void elves aren't
meager warren
oh yeah, because blood elves have dark skin and worship the fucking void
olive mirage
why not just go and say High Elves and Blood Elves are also different races
hollow dock
Sunwell m8
tropic trail
sunwell is arcane not light
meager warren
Belves are sun based.
Sun = light pretty much
tropic trail
well actually
hollow dock
You didn't play BC then
tropic trail
it mgiht be now
hollow dock
it is now
tropic trail
forgot about the naaru
hollow dock
Heart of M'uru was placed in there to purify it
It's a font of Light to feed the Blood and High elven people
tropic trail
but still, they're not light blessed, still got those fel green eyes
sage tapir
idk when the void elves were forced to do anything
olive mirage
thats been there for like a week now Mane
hollow dock
The fel green eyes don't represent fel corruption anymore, and lorewise they are starting to dim and turn gold
olive mirage
the first void elves were forcefully transformed by an ethereal trapped in a box
hollow dock
Fel is like radiation. It takes ages to fade, but it eventually does fade.
olive mirage
the rest were taught to control the void
sage tapir
but this is like arguing with a brick wall so if you'll excuse me
olive mirage
it happens in the unlock scenario
tropic trail
not really, orcs seem to be perma green
hollow dock
With the new Sunwell, in a few more generations, the blood elves will no longer have their green eyes.
meager warren
the first velf, i assume, was alleria.
she was corrupted with the Void by a Void Corrupted naaru
olive mirage
she wasnt corrupted, she accepted it
hollow dock
She absorbed it
meager warren
she had no choice but to accept it or die
hollow dock
She wasn't forced onto it though
tropic trail
I thought they were claiming that they guy that betrayed the elves to arthas was a void elf in the scenario
meager warren
no, but after she touched it, game over for who she was before
hollow dock
He is.
Not really Edgy
she loves Turalyon
she hates the horde
she loves her son
Did you not listen to the audio drama?
the whole point of it was to show she didn't lose herself when dealing with the void
meager warren
smh. i mean, she's obviously different.
"who she was before" refers to Sun-blessed belf
hollow dock
Physically yes, she absorbed the heart of a dark naaru, but she's still Alleria.
tropic trail
nah, the void changed her, now she's british
hollow dock
She's always been a Brit
meager warren
yes.
Just like Tyrant Garrosh was still that little boy we saw in Northrend. They were the same by name and other stuff but they were still different, either personality wise or appearance
hollow dock
I mean
tropic trail
garry didn't change because of outside powers tho
hollow dock
Garrosh was a tyrant in the making in Northrend
meager warren
ehh
tropic trail
that was just character development
hollow dock
So he didn't change much
meager warren
Garry changed because of his own volition just like Alleria.
Alleria changed because she chose to touch the Dark Naaru
Garrosh changed because he chose to go insane
or rather, sane
hollow dock
For alleria, she was trained to resist the void corrupting her being. She took its power and has stayed Alleria. She's still her.
hollow dock
But she's still Alleria.
meager warren
and?
hollow dock
So how is she different if she hasn't changed?
meager warren
she's different.
she's no longer sun-based
hollow dock
She was never sun-blessed to begin with
olive mirage
and what does that have to do with being a different race
hollow dock
She left before the Sunwell was purified
tropic trail
she was never sun based, that didn't happen until a few decades after she left
meager warren
ok, well whatever High Elves are blessed with, she's not that anymore
olive mirage
high elves = blood elves
meager warren
wtf was Alleria then
hollow dock
God and y'all call me an ignorant racist.
tropic trail
arcane
olive mirage
blood elves are just high elves who decided they didnt want to be high elves anymore
its weird and confusing
hollow dock
Blood elves took in fel
tropic trail
the main distinction is their power source
meager warren
Blood Trolls are just devolved Blood Elves, plot twist
olive mirage
where the fuck did fel come from
olive mirage
blood elves are just the remains of the decimated high elf population
tropic trail
fel is a mix of light and shadow I thought, don't quote me on that
hollow dock
They used to be until Kael struck a deal with the Legion and Illidunk
to start powering up their race with fel rather than cleaning out hte Sunwell
Hence the green eyes on blood elves but not High elves
meager warren
Fel is one of the great elements.
Fel, Death, Disorder, Order, Life, Nature, Light, Void; are the elements
olive mirage
His son and heir, Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider, was thankfully studying magic in Dalaran at the time of the disaster and quickly rushed to his people's aid. He returned to find Quel'Thalas in ruins, and thirsting for vengeance, gathered the survivors and renamed them "blood elves" in honor of their fallen kin.
tropic trail
and I thought they were just using fel magic to suck the lifeforce out of living things, and that turned their eyes green, we even see them do that in the BC cinematic
hollow dock
Yes. And look after that when they started drinking fel
hollow dock
The blood elves started out as a noble thing, but it quickly turned into a badge of shame when they started working with demons
Yup it is Sela
olive mirage
there is not one mention of fel in this entire section
Rommath has made great progress in teaching the blood elves advanced techniques to manipulate arcane energies, although unlike their brethren on Outland, the blood elves of Azeroth employed this technique only on mana crystals and small mana-bearing vermin, and attributed these teachings to Kael'thas alone - most were unaware of their prince's alliance with Illidan.
hollow dock
The blood elves strove to rebuild Quel'Thalas, and reclaimed much of their land from the Scourge. Kael'thas had assured his people that one day he would return to Quel'Thalas and lead them to paradise, yet time revealed that his promises were nothing more than lies. On Outland, the prince became twisted due to his reliance on fel energy, the dark and corrupting essence wielded by the demonic Burning Legion itself. Unbeknownst to his ally, Illidan Stormrage, Kael'thas also came under the sway of the Legion's commander, Kil'jaeden. The prince ultimately returned to Quel'Thalas, seeking to usher his new master into Azeroth through the defiled Sunwell, though was killed for his treachery before his cataclysmic ambitions could be fulfilled. The draenei prophet, Velen, then used the essence of a darkened naaru to restore the Sunwell as a fount of both arcane and holy energy.
literally the paragraph after.
meager warren
https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/wowpedia/thumb/7/72/WoW_Chronicle_Magic.jpg/1200px-WoW_Chronicle_Magic.jpg
Here's the map of elements
tropic trail
the mana draining techniques are fel based
meager warren
it may not say that everyone used fel but it's kinda obvious since, ya know, their eyes are green and all that
meager warren
fel-energy is green.
Mana is blue, purple, or some other colors
tropic trail
you asked why their eyes were green
olive mirage
Invigorated by the formidable new techniques at their disposal, such as forcibly taking the magic and power of arcane-bearing creatures
meager warren
that spell was removed in Cata
hollow dock
This query was addressed in the third round of Ask CDev:
How did the blood elven fel eye glint become so widespread? The Warcraft Encyclopedia suggests that Rommath only taught the blood elves of Azeroth about how to siphon arcane magic, as most of the populace would likely be "horrified" if they knew the true extent of Kael’s dealings with Illidan.
The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel’Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs’ skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way.
they took in fel. their eyes went green.
olive mirage
thats like saying a person exposed to 2nd hand smoke is a heavy smoker
meager warren
smoke is a shitton different than fucking fel
tropic trail
why didn't allerias eyes turn green from her time on argus then?
hollow dock
Alleria's eyes were originally green to start with
but they retconned it to blue. ;3; In which
She wasn't around fel as long as the other elves in Quel'thas
olive mirage
Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption
jade basalt
They allegedly consumed fel. They imprisoned demons into crystals and siphoned them. And just all around used fel. But that was retconned by Micky Neilson, now they still did use fel but they weren't aware it was fel. Yes because the millenia old foremost expert on magic who were about 3-5 lifetimes away from the War of the Ancients and who formed a Council of Tirisfal to fight demons didn't know what fel was.
tropic trail
she was around fel for 1k years tho
tranquil steeple
I just wanna say it's kinda amusing this is BfA spoiler based channel, and we're going over lore regarding magic & elves
meager warren
Again, radiation isn't anything like smoke
tropic trail
when her and turalyon were fighting demons
olive mirage
what if
the green eyes are just a thing
and has nothing to do with anything at all
hollow dock
Plus with her knowing how to wield light and being around a Prime Naaru
meager warren
@tranquil steeple this happens almost every day in the spoilers channel
hollow dock
It's easy to get that cleaned off.
In which Slayer, its been said canonically that's why the blood elves have green eyes
olive mirage
In classic World of Warcraft, blood elves had normal white eyes with pupils. The Sunwell Trilogy also depicted them with this appearance. A possible explanation is that all blood elves having green eyes in World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade is simply an exaggeration by Blizzard to help differentiate blood and high elf NPCs, or it's simply a mistake or retcon by Blizzard.
hollow dock
I dont remember Blood elves being in Vanilla
olive mirage
i mean... they were playable in vanilla?
hollow dock
I remember the high elves being there and they had white eyes. along with syvlanas. and they looking like night elves.
No?
They weren't introduced to the game until BC
tranquil steeple
Only "almost" every day? Well, still, even though it is off-topic as per the channel, it's nice to get to know some minor things about lore I didn't know about before.
meager warren
what if
This is the spoilers channel, not conjectures channel
the green eyes are just a thing
I mean, they kinda are?
and has nothing to do with anything at all
We've given you information that kinda goes against that
tropic trail
how 'bout them moose cows?
tranquil steeple
Got milk?
tropic trail
and their moosey horns
meager warren
and those travel forms
meager warren
murlocs aren't fish. they're some kind of reptile, i think
hollow dock
Theyre fish people
jade basalt
hollow dock
Theyre not lizard, or any other type of reptile or amphibian. theyre fish people.
hollow dock
They are what the Jinyu evolved from.
meager warren
http://prntscr.com/ihldej the only thing on that that looks like a fish is the eye
jade basalt
They are called fishmen. But yes they also resemble frogs and might possibly descend from a frog Ancient.
They resemble both fish and frogs.
meager warren
frogs more imo
hollow dock
So are they cannibals for eating fish and frogs?
what about the Jinyu? They fish a lot. Despite also being fish people.
meager warren
Jinyu are definitely reptiles
jade basalt
@meager warren Eh, depends on the variety. https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/wowpedia/b/b4/Gobbler_TCG.jpg?version=e13558fbc4d952267ae374a166fc345d
jade basalt
Jinyu are fish people.
hollow dock
So are they cannibals because they eat fish?
meager warren
jade basalt
Depends, would a human be considered a cannibal for eating [the common ancestor between humans and apes] ?
jade basalt
Then I'd say no.
meager warren
because they're different species
jade basalt
Murlocs & jinyu are quite widely different than my golden fish.
hollow dock
great then my trolls aren't cannibals for eating elves.
jade basalt
Nope.
tranquil steeple
Unless they're eating fellow trolls, they're not cannibals
jade basalt
But would your troll eat @meager warren ?
meager warren
If they ever make Zandalari Troll DHs, i'm race-switching my DH
me
i'mma win
"Last one standing wins"
hollow dock
removes herself from the area so that you're the last one standing
meager warren
💔
tranquil steeple
how can one say they love their partner if they won't let them eat your body
#brokenheartedtrollcannibals
meager warren
lul
hollow dock
please dont start the vore train again
meager warren
did i?
tranquil steeple
nope™
meager warren
😋
tranquil steeple
or better represented by this
fine, link will have to do
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15697457/images/1311602195613.png
tranquil steeple
I usually just right click and click "copy picture" then paste it where I want to post it, or use program to crop out everything but the pic itself
but pasting wouldn't work
meager warren
tru
tranquil steeple
The end justify the means
wild pewter
Would love to see the Jinyu as an Allied Race
zinc sandal
Why did Cordana betray us? I never really got that.
tranquil steeple
Sounds like something that happened during Legendary Ring quest in WoD, that then went off-screen until Legion pre-patch and/or Beta
tranquil steeple
Assuming, atleast, going by this player-made comment:
(https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/15161302361#post-6)
Honestly, what did you expect? After the player's done retrieving the Orb of Dominion during the legendary quest line, she took it and is seen handling the damn thing despite having said she'd destroy it. Of course she was going to turn evil! As soon as Cordana touched it, Gul'dan was able to speak to her directly through it and convert her to the Legion's cause.
oh jeez that wall of text pre-view
zinc sandal
Poor Cordana
tranquil steeple
tl;dr - Gul'dan/Legion influence and seemingly desire for more power
So the somewhat typical reason that one of the good guys we do quests and such for, and fight alongside, turn evil.
zinc sandal
Smh
merry briar
hhh
split valley
WTB new alpha build with loot tables for mobs added. ESP Elite Mobs
dense plover
not gonna happen
thats one of the last things to add
more zones first probably
which is why we didnt get a build today
flat mango
No damn wonder we had to kill her in Vault of the Wardens. She betrayed us. What a bitch.
cinder knoll
if I remember the legendary quest correctly, there was a point where you needed to destroy some powerful artifact you stole from Gul'dan... and you handle it to Cordana, she already behave wierd when touching it, it had strong influence on her... I dont think it was pure betrayal, she got corrupted by Gul'dan slowly using that artifact...
flat mango
Hmmmm, you have a point there. Still, Cordana meets her end in the Vault of the Wardens.
cinder knoll
ye 😃
hollow dock
TBH its probably good that Cordana took the hit
imagine if she didn't and let Khadgar handle it
shudder
tranquil steeple
As seen in the Return to Kara cinematic, I'd imagine Khadgar would resist.. could also not be able to, but guess we won't find out anytime soon, if so.
hollow dock
Saberon reside in the beach or desert areas.
they're also deep in the jungles of Tanaan
Yea that's one tribe of them
A tribe that we slaughtered but a tribe.
they never asked you to care about it o=
warped wing
hollow dock
I was talking about the Saberon
warped wing
hollow dock
hollow dock
I thought it gave some nice personality.
languid yoke
sure, armor sometimes looks bad, but having invisble chest mog would solve that B)
hollow dock
Unless we're suddenly just hunch hating for no reason.
languid yoke
only hunch that I think is meh is Orcs
hollow dock
I thought that was the only hunch everyone hated.
languid yoke
apparently some people dislike Troll and Worgen hunch but I can't see why
upright Troll would be a tall elf with tusks
hollow dock
Upright trolls would actually be the tallest player race.
languid yoke
upright worgen would be generic and might make running wild impossible posture-wise
doesn't look deformed either, they just have a wider chest
spine/back is kinda straight
hollow dock
Yea. I always took the hunch as what most modern werewolves use it for: a deformity. The first thing that pops up in the transformation is the arching back as the wolf tries to molt the human part off.
and the jungle troll hunch was just because they'd sit in trees, hunched over and eventually it just gets bred in.
uncut vault
Pretty sure the hunch, lore wise, is to hide their true height from their enemies. Zandalari dont hunch over because of pride
terse patrol
jungle trolls are hunched because they’re an inbred, inferior species next to the Zandalari master race. 😉
hollow dock
zandalari dont hunch because theyre not jungle trolls :v
willow frost
I like the OG trolls
leaden garden
You mean the ones in WC2 that didn't have tusks until a goblin alchemist fucked with them and made them hulking berserkers
?
uncut vault
Being a jungle troll has nothing to do with the hunch. Forest trolls hunch too.
willow frost
They hunch so that they can fit in doors :p
proud karma
well, the differences between jungle and forest trolls are rather small; same models used frequently and everything
leaden garden
I'm just excited to have Zandalari. Their models are awesome and their lore is even more bamf
hollow dock
They were cool until Cataclysm.
ruby prawn
Why only until Cata?
hollow dock
They tried to use Hakkar to wipe out the world. :v
proud karma
that was only a few!
ruby prawn
They will be an interesting race
ruby prawn
It's weird when you think that trolls are actually everywhere
leaden garden
Also that was the Gurubashi not the Zandalari
In fact it was the Zandalari who were trying to prevent it, and who were contracting mercenaries/heroes to kill Gurubashi
Ot
ruby prawn
Not to mention the tribes that are not part of the Horde or Alliance
leaden garden
It's* from the Zandalari we first heard about the Freethinkers
proud karma
yep!
leaden garden
And I'm sad Blizzard isn't looking like they're going to give us Freethinkers, IE Zandalari pallies
hollow dock
No benj that was the Zandalari
leaden garden
That... that's what I just said
hollow dock
9:05 AM] Benju: Also that was the Gurubashi not the Zandalari
hollow dock
The zandalari was the ones behind Hakkar in Cataclysm.
The Zandalari reinforced Zul'gurub and Zul'aman, making sure the Gurubashi and Amani trolls were brought back to power as they tried to harness the power of the loa to take back the mainland
leaden garden
"Hakkar the Soulflayer, the Blood God[2] is a malevolent and destructive loa notably worshipped by the Gurubashi trolls, at one point even controlling the Gurubashi Empire's fallen capital of Zul'Gurub. He is known in the troll pantheon as the Loa of Blood.[3][4]
Hakkar the Soulflayer was the final boss of the Zul'Gurub raid"
hollow dock
Patch 4.1, the Zandalari team up with the remains of all the troll tribes to reconquer Azeroth.
leaden garden
Yeah that was the Prophet Zul, who was exiled from Zandalar by King Rhastakhan. He's technically a Zandalari but wasn't acting on behalf of the Zandalari Empire
He had a small contingent of Zandalari who followed him when they tried to reunite the Troll tribes, not the might of the Zandalari army. He was very much NOT apart of them anymore becuase he decided he wanted to do things his way
hollow dock
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Zul he was not exiled by Rasta
steel venture
Zul acts without Rastakhan's consent though.
He also is literally betraying us in BFA.
leaden garden
^
hollow dock
Zul is with the Zandalari and representing them up until he betrays us all in BFA
steel venture
And there's civil unrest in Zandalar due to people backing Zul or people backing Rastakhan.
It is literally a key part of Zandalar's storyline.
hollow dock
So during cata, he very much was representing the Zandalari.
rare abyss
Phophet Zul... Phophet Velen... Velen betrayal confirmed? :P
hollow dock
Led by Zul, the Zandalari have issued a call to Azeroth's embattled troll populations: unite into a single mighty empire and save their race from extinction.[6] Zul was the leader of the Zandalari delegation that appeared at the meeting of the troll tribes, inviting them to join the Zandalari at Rastakhan's proposal.[7] When Vol'jin refused, Zul threatened him that against the powers they would soon unleash, none would stand against them for long.[8]
leaden garden
He's really not though, Vris. I misspoke about him being exiled, but even the link you provided says Rhasta waved him off and said "fine just go away." He's not acting on Zandalar's behalf
compact merlin
they are just prophets, not a secret illuminati order
velen will keep doing velen things
hollow dock
the powers btw is referencing Hakkar
rare abyss
Prophets are the illuminati of azeroth, spread it
leaden garden
And it's highly doubtful the majority of the Zandalari would encourage his actions, as they don't approve of blood worship. That's the Gurubashi thing that Zul attempted to take advantage of
hollow dock
They weren't doing blood worship in Zul'gurub
they were enslaving Hakkar to wipe out the world
leaden garden
Even the Zandalari know virtually nothing good happens with Hakkar
hollow dock
The Gurubashi had no strength to challenge Hakkar until Zul and the Zandalari came in to assist them
leaden garden
They worshipped Hakkar and gave themselves willingly to him, they were just on the brink of extinction till the Zan came.
hollow dock
Yes. And when Zan came, they turned on Hakkar in an attempt to enslave his power for the Zandalari empire and wipe out the world. To retake it from the ruins of Zandalar. That is why theyre no longer cool in my book.
steel venture
Y'know Zul is literally a manipulative douchebag that would sooner kill the Horde than join it?
Rastakhan can be reasoned with.
leaden garden
Again you're taking Zul's actions as representing the entire Zandalari Empire. They don't
hollow dock
they do.
steel venture
Even Blizzard has stated those that support Zul are a fraction of the population.
leaden garden
^
steel venture
New lore > Old lore.
hollow dock
What new lore?! This is the past not the current present the fuck
leaden garden
Your opinion is noted, but the canon states otherwise. The Zandalari have remained a neutral force the entire game up until BfA
steel venture
If it's been rewritten that Zul is an outlier and not a representation, it's the new direction.
hollow dock
King Rastakhan tired of Zul and his troubling nightmares. To be rid of the prophet, he granted Zul the use of his largest ships, so that he and his followers could seek a new land if his visions came to pass.[4] They scoffed as he and his followers began assembling a war fleet and reaching out to the lesser troll races.[3] The old prophet sailed all around the oceans, meeting with the other tribes like the Sandfury trolls or the Drakkari.[5]
But Zul's vision were visions of the truth. Deathwing's Cataclysm rocked Zandalar to its foundation. The spine of the land broke in two, and soon, the city and all its riches began to slide into the hungry sea. The Zandalari people turned to their King for help, but there was only one Zandalari equipped to help them: The prophet Zul. Even now the mighty and enigmatic troll empire slides into the sea, and Zandalari peasants and warriors alike flock to Zul for guidance on what to do next.[3]
None of this has changed.
steel venture
He was written in line with the empire prior to BFA. Now he's acting as his own thing.
leaden garden
"To be rid of the prophet.... so that he and his followers could seek a new land"
Translation:
"Fine, go away, get out of my city"
He sent Zul and his followers A W A Y from Zandalar, most likely under the impression he wasn't coming back
hollow dock
It's a token to keep him quiet yes
leaden garden
It's a token to get. Rid. Of. Him.
hollow dock
But that doesn't say he's perminately exiled
leaden garden
Again, I misspoke about the Exile. It wasn't an exile, but it was a sending-off.
Zul decided to go off and do his own thing
Those loyal to Rhasta stayed
hollow dock
The zandalari people flocked to him in cataclysm. He used his representation of the Zandalari people to go and enslave hakkar with the Gurubashi and return the Loa.
leaden garden
No they didn't. NOW they're flocking to him as the above paragraph says "Even now" IE the present talking about BfA
He used his fame as a prophet to entice the other tribes
And with their combined might decided to try and enslave the blood loa
Something the Zandalari would not condone
hollow dock
After the mists of Pandaria collapsed, the Zandalari were intensely curious about Pandaria, even more so perhaps than the Horde and Alliance were.[10] Even with their defeat in Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub the Zandalari have decided to continue their war efforts and appear in the Kun-Lai Summit of Pandaria. Having set up their base of operations on the island north of the mainland, they now pour down the shores of the region, attacking the denizens. They also hired and brought the gnolls of Blackmane.
And what about this?
and no Benj
that was post WotLK
when Deathwing awoke
leaden garden
The Kun-Lai shit is also Zul! Not the Zandalari empire
hollow dock
https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Dark_Prophet_Zul this is where that second paragraph camefrom
leaden garden
All this stuff is ZUL
hollow dock
Zul wasn't present in Pandaria
leaden garden
" Zul has sent Zandalari scouts under the command of Prophet Khar'zul and Gara'jal the Spiritbinder to find out information about their ancient mogu allies."
ZUL
ZUL
ZUL
steel venture
... You don't have to be present to lead the forces. Just what?
leaden garden
Not Rhastakhan, not Zandalar
steel venture
Most people leading a unit will hang back whilst the unit takes care of their duties. I...
leaden garden
You can dislike them that's fine, but you're cherrypicking lore and claiming it presides over the entire Kingdom / race that your examples are clearly not parts of
steel venture
It's literally Blizzard now saying, "Hey. So we know Zul and the Zandalari did a lot of bad stuff. But they were HIS followers. Not Rastakhan's. The rest of the Zandalari can actually join us."
leaden garden
^
hollow dock
And all ofthis is still under Rast's token forces to head off into the world.
steel venture
Did you even pay attention at BlizzCon? Or any other QnA's?
leaden garden
"Lei Shen returns to his island citadel with the majority of Zul's Zandalari army and along with the Mogu, forms then into an enormous army which is bent on reclaiming Pandaria for the Mogu and Lei Shen. Zul orders the Zandalari to immediately begin land assaults on the continent itself."
steel venture
"Zul's Zandalari army."
ZUL.
Not Rastakhan.
I seriously don't understand how you're failing to connect this.
Blizzard has readjusted how they're handling it so we have to look at the lore in that light now. Although it was always hinted that Zul wasn't acting under Rastakhan's will.
hollow dock
and its still from Rasta's orders to head off into the world. He's the one that started the Zandalari incursion by giving Zul the power he currently has.
leaden garden
"Orders"
he didn't give Zul orders to go out and conquer
He said "Fine, shutup, take a few ships, go find this new land you're talking about, leave me alone"
Rhastakhan VERY clearly gave him the ships to shut him up, not to go out and do what he's doing
hollow dock
And that was his mistake. His problem that hegave the world.
steel venture
Rastakhan literally isn't a good leader, so it was easy for Zul to stage a coup and try to take more power. That's a character flaw, yes. But that still doesn't damn the ENTIRETY OF THE ZANDALARI PEOPLE.
hollow dock
Had he never done so and Zul broke off on his own then OK. But Rasta let go of the leash and even gave the deranged prophet the weaponsneeded.
steel venture
"Lorewalker Cho says: King Rastakhan tired of Zul and his troubling nightmares. To be rid of the prophet, he granted Zul the use of his largest ships, so that he and his followers could seek a new land if his visions came to pass.
Lorewalker Cho says: And his visions DID come to pass.
Lorewalker Cho says: When Deathwing rose from the Maelstrom, dark, angry waves crashed onto the Zandalari capital. The spine of the land broke in two, and soon, the city and all its riches began to slide into the hungry sea.
Lorewalker Cho says: The Zandalari people turned to their King for help, but there was only one Zandalari equipped to help them: the prophet Zul. The prophet, and the mighty warfleet he had assembled while his King sat idle."
It's a typical asshole king story.
leaden garden
Lazy king story lol
steel venture
Sitting on his throne and letting others take care of it, which makes it easy for his words to get overthrown.
Princess Telanji will be calling her father out REPEATEDLY during BFA.
leaden garden
So you're blaming the entire Zandalari empire because their king was annoyed and sent Zul away and Zul decided to use that to be a giant dick in Azeroth... that holds together
hollow dock
His problems that we have to deal with. Had Zul taken all of it by force then sure. But this is still a problem the world has dealt with that he created.
leaden garden
That's like hating the entire nation of Ireland because the IRA were dicks
steel venture
Because not only did he dismiss the fact that Zul was an issue.
He dismissed the fact that Telanji was right about the blood trolls and thus why they're such a problem now.
Bad leaders don't condem an entire nation though.
Like, seriously.
It's not a fucking hivemind.
hollow dock
Yes Im blaming an entire nation on their bad leader. That's what a leader does. Represent their people.
steel venture
its 👏 not 👏 a 👏 hivemind 👏
hollow dock
doesn't 👏 matter 👏
steel venture
That'd literally be like saying all orcs are like Garrosh when MoP happened.
hollow dock
The majority were wtf
steel venture
When there was a fucking civil war for that goddamn reason.
leaden garden
So all Germans are still Nazis, the Irish are a bunch of Drunkard farmers who bomb people with nailbombs, and all Africans live in huts.
On that same note: all Dwarves are drunkards incapable of holding back in a fight, all Draenei are pompous assholes who run from their problems, all Worgen are savage monsters that eat children, all orcs are bloodthirsty mongoloids, all Tauren are peaceful, all undead are plague-doctors
steel venture
.......EXCEPT THERE WERE MULTIPLE THAT HELPED THE OTHER RACES WHAT?
hollow dock
The minority broke off from the True horde yes, but the majority created it.
steel venture
The Kor'kron =/= the entire orcish poplation what in the fuck dude.
hollow dock
and yes Benj I agree with all of those statements
steel venture
Sorry that Blizzard's writing hasn't been entirely black and white for a while now?
leaden garden
Xan, it's useless at this point. She's just gonna continue going "nuh uh" at all the lore
leaden garden
And apparently in real life too lol
hollow dock
Who said my views on the horde reflect real life?
leaden garden
You did. You said you agreed to all those statements
That includes the ones about the Irish and Africans lol
hollow dock
Ah I shot myself in the foot there.
hollow dock
No clearly I dont mean real fucking people
leaden garden
Mmhm
hollow dock
When I'm talking about fictional characters
leaden garden
Not sure I believe that to be honest. Lol
hollow dock
Fine then. Believe whatever you want. But I've stated multiple times my views on the horde and its races.
steel venture
I mean in my experience, coming from an RP server, the people who REALLY loved Garrosh and the whole "True Horde" thing ended up being actual supremacists IRL and out-of-character. So... Fiction does effect reality.
hollow dock
I never liked -any- of the horde.
leaden garden
Then just say that. Just say you don't like the Horde and their races. Arguing the lore with cherrypicking just makes you look ignorant
hollow dock
I have. You guys wanted to keep it going despite what I've said multiple times in the past.
leaden garden
You saying it in the past doesn't necessarily pertain to NOW when you're trying to post lore and we call you out for cherrypicking without context. There's a big difference between "I don't like trolls" and "All trolls are evil and here's cherrypicked lore that supports that"
hollow dock
I dont like horde races feeds into why I cherrypick against them
I do the same with Orcs and the other races.
leaden garden
Which, again, just makes you look illiterate and ignorant. Cherrypicking shouldn't be something you brag about or are proud of.
hollow dock
Who said Im proud of it? I hate the horde and alliance. I happen to hate the horde more.
and clearly Im not illiterate if I'm able to respond to you.
leaden garden
When you say "well thats why I cherrypick cuz reasons" sure looks like you're proud of it from here. As opposed to saying "okay I was wrong" you justify ignoring everything you chose not to read
hollow dock
Yes I hate the horde. I hate the alliance. am I wrong for it? Probably. I have my fun with it in this isolated fictional world where it doesn't matter if I do or don't.
leaden garden
But who cares at this point, you've basically admitted that you don't actually care about the lore, you just care about the parts you like and ignore the rest so w/e
hollow dock
It's almost as if I have preferences for what I like and don't like
leaden garden
Which is very different from what you've been trying to do. Again, if you had just said "I just don't like trolls" at the beginning, we wouldn't be in a conversation about lore which you also don't care about, which you also could have said but chose to keep arguing it
hollow dock
takes 2, or in our case 3, to keep the argument going.
leaden garden
Because some of us like the lore and thought we were actually having a discussion about the lore and not talking to a wall
Some of us are also bored at work and have nothing better to do currently
lol
hollow dock
You two seemed to have just been yelling at me the whole time.
that's not really a discussion.
leaden garden
Oh for christ's sake
@steel venture I swear it's like she reads only the last 5 words of what I say and nothing else.
hollow dock
[9:48 AM] Benju: Because some of us like the lore and thought we were actually having a discussion about the lore and not talking to a wall
You two were just yelling 'YOURE WRONG WER'RE RIGHT' the whole time while I was saying Rasta is just as much at fault for Zul and his actions.
leaden garden
Actually we were posting lore and adding context/other lore to the cherrypicked lore you provided to prove our point and you just sat there going "nuh uh"
steel venture
... What?
You continuously claimed that Zul was representative of the entirety of the Zandalari.
And I even mentioned that Rastakhan was a bad leader. But neither of them equal the entire people.
hollow dock
You said Rasta's not to blame for it. The Zandalari empire wasn't being represented. But it clearly was by Rasta giving him their biggest warships to go and colonize the world.
leaden garden
And there it is. Coming full circle back to the point we already debunked with lore, canon, and official Blizzard statements to disprove.
I'm out, no use at this point.
hollow dock
So rastakhan never gave him warships to go colonize the world
and zul just stole them?
leaden garden
He gave him warships and said go away, no official order was given to colonize and raid, certainly not to go enslave a loa. The lore provided proves this and so did Blizzard. Good day
hollow dock
the reason he gave the ships was to go away and colonize these lands Zul was prophesizing.
You can't just pick off the half you want from what Rasta did
steel venture
That is correct that he gave the warships, but you realize it was a mockery of Zul, right?
It was in context to get rid of him and stop his whining complaints. Yes, it totally bit him in the ass later. There's no denial of that on my end. :T
But none of this represents the Zandalari as a whole.
hollow dock
It's Rastakhans will was it not?
steel venture
Or was every night elf at fault for Queen Azshara's actions? If we're going to blame the entire race for one person.
hollow dock
We did blame all of teh Highborne for Queen Azshara.
That's why they got exiled in the first place to create the High elves and Silvermoon :v why the remaining Highborne were exiled until Cataclysm
steel venture
Dath'remar and his followers were apart of the Kaldorei Resistance. The manastorm came far after Queen Azshara and was retaliation for not being allowed access to the second Well of Eternity despite their pain and withdrawls.
War of the Ancients > Sundering > War of the Satyr > Exile of the Highborne.
There is a long period between Azshara's events and the actual exile.
The exile is completely unrelated to any "Azshara loyalism."
hollow dock
Ah, that I didn't know.
As I always read it, the war of the ancients was won and then the Highborne got exiled.
steel venture
An interesting fact is that really, Illidan wasn't actually imprisoned for ten-thousand years, lol.
He was imprisoned the same time around when the Highborne were exiled, because that's what sparked the whole issue.
So that was actually seven thousand years ago, Blizzard not readin' their own timeline much.
leaden garden
That or Illidan just being so salty he rounds up to be dramatic lol
steel venture
Basically.
tranquil steeple
To be fair on that part, a lot of stuff is just said as ten-thousand years ago.
hollow dock
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dath'Remar_Sunstrider#Aftermath also. here. This is what was said to have happened.
It was right after the War of the Ancients
jade basalt
Illidan was imprisoned 10 000 years ago and freed for the Third War. The Highborne/future high elves were exiled 7 300 years ago.
So no, Illidan was indeed imprisoned for 10 000 years.
hollow dock
Man that timeline makes no sense or this is misleading. As the wording eludes to Illidan making the well right after the War and the Highborne being exiled from it at the same time.
jade basalt
Wording of what ? The Wowpedia article ?
steel venture
Ah. Yeah, that's what tripped me up. It's early, lol. I forgot that Chonicle also has the awkward wording in it too.
hollow dock
the whole aftermath section yes.
jade basalt
Lemme check.
hollow dock
It doesn't indicate at all that there was a 3,000 year gap
steel venture
Due to the fact that the writing implies they happened one after the other, but oftentimes with elven lore it's all muttled.
And Blizzard likes to smoosh together several thousand years at a time.
jade basalt
Chronicle has no awkward wording, it explicitly puts the chapter about Illidan's imprisonment at 10 000 years ago and the Exile of the Highborne chapter at 7000y ago
You might be misremembering
@hollow dock Yea the wording of the article is odd, I'll fix
hollow dock
thanks
steel venture
Probably. Nix my mention of his imprisonment length being mixed up then.
Although the point still stands that it was around three-thousand years before the Exile and thus it wasn't caused by Azshara loyalism.
hollow dock
I never said it was blamed on Loyalism. Until this, I thought they were being exiled out because of the fear of another Azshara rising to power amongst the Highborne
jade basalt
Illidan's imprisonment ? No it was just because the guy literally re-opened a potential door to the Legion when they had just closed the other
@hollow dock Not exactly, it was because they just couldn't give up magic, tensions rose, and they decided to banish them
hollow dock
well that and the manastorm in Ashenvale
steel venture
The context of me bringing this up at all is that individuals don't represent an entire population. As a counterpoint to the Rastakhan and Zul discussion.
Azshara =/= Every night elf, nor every highborne on that note. Given that Dath'remar did fight for the Kaldorei Resistance.
The manastorm was a terrible decision and a stupid retallation, but that wasn't really "Azshara-like" that was "We're desperate and angry."
hollow dock
I mean. I'll use a magic to crush my opposition does sound like what Azshara would have done. not personally, she'd have ordered someone else to do it for her, but still.
Regardless, Rasta is just at much at fault for what Zul had done. Zul has been parading with the guise of Rastakhans authority. This is at fault of him. Apathy is just at much a fault as the actions taken. I have worded this wrong the entire discussion and I'm sorry for that.
steel venture
Thank you, that's a far more consice and clear point that dismisses the confusion and doesn't paint it as if you were blaming every Zandalari for their actions. ❤
And I apologize for the aggression, it just got frustrating that it seemed like you were repeating the misworded point over and over.
hollow dock
It's fine. I tend to be very hard headed.
When my mind makes the words my hands dont, I tend to get lost in translation
jade basalt
My memory might be a little fuzzy but I think on Alpha it is implied that Rastakhan is poisoned and it is why he is so apathetic, he is ill.
hollow dock
Well this was a discussion of his actions during cata. Has he really been ill since then? O.o
steel venture
Mm, that would explain a lot.
jade basalt
He can't reign properly and that also causes more Zandalari to defame him, though they aren't aware of that.
I'm not sure we know the exact timeline yet
steel venture
Remember that in WoW, illnesses can incapacitate people for quite a long time.
Malfurion did not wake up because he was being poisoned by Fandral.
hollow dock
I suppose.
steel venture
It doesn't even have to be a fatal posion to be fair.
hollow dock
Oh yea btw on the whole 'fiction vs reality' thing, I play an insane cultist that murders anyone and everything she can. I am not one in real life. .-.
steel venture
If it can cause hallucinations, drowsiness, exhaustion, etc. Those can incapacitate someone enough to manipulate them easily.
Annnnd yeah, sorry about that one again. It's that the subbornness on the misworded point reminded me of some distasteful folk. ;;'
But it's all good. ❤
hollow dock
ye <3
Also I just realized that Dath'remar and the high elves just willed all of their structures into existance.
leaden garden
OG green lanterns lol
hollow dock
magics OP
steel venture
Basically.
Honestly, my favorite little tidbit though with Dath'remar is that he implies that highborne did have distinct hair colors outside of arcane white.
Auburn hair wasn't odd. His golden highlighted streaks were.
So, at some point night elves still had the possibility to have red hair, similarly to trolls.
uncut vault
"I am not one in real life. .-." debatable
hollow dock
Hey now just because I roleplay an insane cultist obsessed with the old gods and slaughtering anything that disagrees with her does not make me one in real life.
Oh so like the night elf DKs do Xan?
steel venture
Yeah, we've had the DK hair colors then reused for regular night elves. So it's still present just ... hella uncommon now.
Makes sense too, since most kaldorei would be younger than 10,000 years now and those older traits would be fading out in the population.
//nodnod
(I still say they should just edit one of the female night elf DK colors to an actual red though.)
Versus yknow.
pink.
steel venture
YES.
hollow dock
Don't skirt it like ya did with the blood elves :v
steel venture
I've edited that before just to see how it would look on a night elf.
It doesn't actually look bad, but aaa. I lost the edit now. 💔
steel venture
I still really like Vaanel's version of highborne Dath'remar honestly.
It's good. 👌
hollow dock
I feel bad for Vaanel. He's done so much work for it all to cave in. :c
steel venture
I know :c
His highborne models especially were an amazing represenation of them TBH.
Most of the supporting characters that weren't Azshara but still nobiilty all had distinctive looks that separated them from folks like Tyrande, Malfurion, Illidan, Jarod, etc.
hollow dock
yea. He has a passion for it
If blizz ever does revisit WOTA they should bring him in
true matrix
those are some hella yaoi hands
hollow dock
I believe these are WC3 models or models made to be compatible with WC3s engine if I remember right
steel venture
Custom WoW models converted to function in the WC3 engine.
hollow dock
his Azshara is fantastic
steel venture
SERIOUSLY THOUGH.
uncut vault
What happened to Vaanel?
hollow dock
I'mnot sure. Last I ever heard of him was that his WOTA project caved in with costs and pressures and just haven't heard anything since.
steel venture
As far as I know, hiatus that's taken him off the net.
They were going to do Dragon Soul, but it caved in on them.
--Demon Soul.
asdf
hollow dock
He got part 1 of WOTA up, it was OK. VA wasn't the best but it wasn't bad for a first time machinima.
https://vaanel.deviantart.com/art/Detail-on-Azshara-6-316127891 His azshara is BOOTIFUL
steel venture
Not to mention how LONG the machinma was kinda made it impressive for a book adaptation.
THE DEMON SOUL TRAILER WAS COOL TOO 💔 Sucks that it fell apart on them.
hollow dock
It was. I was so excited to see it but then he just had to drop it and I was so sad ;3;
steel venture
The utilization of the Cataclysm theme and keeping Neltharion's words almost paralleling his Cataclysm Trailer commentary.
On the topic of Deathwing though.
HONESTLY?
I still say they should've saved him for like.
Now.
Actually directly dealing with N'zoth and his two most powerful corrupted lieutenants, Neltharion and Azshara would've made more sense. 💔
They wasted him too early in an expansion that was too ambitious for the time.
And then just turned him into a big dumb dragon when he was a terrifying.
hollow dock
ever since cata
I've been saying they shouldn't have used the Dragon Soul
just push him back into Deepholm
or do what they did with Chromatus
steel venture
They really screwed up with dragons, honestly.
hollow dock
sleep himfor later
NO I HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN CHROMATUS BLIZZARD, GIVE ME MY TIAMAT RIP OFF
steel venture
However with how Sinestra was apparently talking to twilight dragons from beyond the grave, perhaps Deathwing's void-wracked spirit rests in Ny'alotha? 🤔
hollow dock
I hope so.
steel venture
also
here is how i say we bring "back" deathwing.
if he's a spirit and his body can never be returned due to how the aspects made it a fixed point across all realities---
use. chromatus. as. a. vessel.
that body needs a large power source to function
and also literally cannot be destroyed.
hollow dock
Why stop it there? Have all of the aspects inhabit Chromatus.
uncut vault
Man, Blizzard are cowards for making the Silvermoon Mage couple straight
hollow dock
theyre closeted gay
uncut vault
You had the perfect opportunity to give us lesbian blood elves Blizz
hollow dock
its just a cover up
steel venture
#allelvesarequeer
hollow dock
#allofwarcraftisqueer
steel venture
yes
...
also blizzard needs to stop being cowards and make stellagosa and valtrios an offical thing
aLL OF THOSE DAMN INNUENDOS
hollow dock
the quest designer reblogged a post with them as a couple
that's about as canon as we're gonna get
steel venture
yaaaaas questifer?
i love her
she's the best
hollow dock
Yes. She did!
steel venture
I still love the fact that literally since she's an RPer she went out of her way to make sure there were some spots that were void of NPCs and tucked away for people to use.
It's adorable.
hollow dock
she understands us and our issues
steel venture
yes
glad edge
this isnt bfa spoilers
sullen dagger
this is mainly shiposting, with a pinch of lore theory 401
steel venture
Now all we need is Xal'atath to just "convinently" end up in Azshara's possesion. >>
hollow dock
OZUMATS COMIN BACK
steel venture
GOOD.
glad edge
nzoths projection?
steel venture
I HATED HOW IT WAS UNEXPLAINED ON HOW NEPTULON ESCAPED AND "TAMED" OZUMAT
steel venture
I still seriously want Azshara to take over at as Waterlord.
glad edge
where are you guys seeing it?
steel venture
Make her harder to kill, make her more terrifying, please Blizzard.
hollow dock
steel venture
If you're going to kill her at least give her a DAMN amazing sendoff.
hollow dock
and you say you care about BFA spoilers
I still hope for god she doesn't get the Xavius treatment
steel venture
Cause if Azshara is a Deathwing 2.0 I will be VERY upset.
hollow dock
at least Deathwing got to survive all expac
steel venture
Where her amazing manipulation, tact, and EVERYTHING is thrown out the window to be a loot piñata
steel venture
-----!!!!!!!!
Highborne NPC using a Nightborne model?! AAAAAAAA
BLESS.
BLIZZARD ACKNOWLEDGING THE FACT THAT NIGHTBORNE SHOULD BE CLOSER TO WHAT HIGHBORNE LOOK LIKE THAN THE NELF MOELS.
FINALLY.
Please tell me she's form Suramar ... Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee. That'd like confirm my headcanons hardcore.
I have multiple highborne that came from Suramar that had similar dark skin tones and pale hair colors long before Legion came out, basically.
And then Nightborne were revealed to be a thing and i was like "YOOOOOOO"
hollow dock
the Nightwells always been there right?
steel venture
Yeah, it was always powered by the Eye of Aman'thul, that's how they kept it locked away.
They turned to the Nightwell exclusively when the Shield went up though.
Which is why I personally say the highborne-like appearances ended up appearing in the entire population due to the arcane from the Nightwell.
Since pale hair, arcane-laced skin, etc. Those were old nobility-exclusive traits.
So ever since Nightborne were revealed I thought it just sounds possible that they mimic what the empire used to be like Pre-Sundering almost exactly. Minus some minor details.
jade basalt
Nightwell wasn't always there, they made it right before sealing Suramar with a magic bubble
hollow dock
How would the Nightwell be affecting the elves on the other side of the empire though?
jade basalt
It's not ?
hollow dock
Or those already in Zin'azshari.
steel venture
Mm? Thought it was implied that it was, a'ight. Nevermind though.
hollow dock
I'm asking Xan, Quiet.
jade basalt
You might be thinking of the Well of Eternity, it affected the whole of Kalimdor
Well the elves at least
steel venture
Oh, nono. I mean just.
Arcane changes people heavily, so it just makes sense that Highborne should look weird by comparison to regular night elves.
And, in case of the novels. They do.
It's rarely represented in game though.
jade basalt
They looked just like normal night elves.
hollow dock
In the novels they were always shown to be really pale or light blue by comparison to the other night elves that were more normally purple.
steel venture
Lady Vashj has cat eyes prior to being a naga though? Literal, cat eyes.
jade basalt
Not really, no.
steel venture
As in they were described as containing slits.
hollow dock
It wasn't until the game that it kinda just got ignored. Like Alleria's and the High elven eyes being capable of more colors than just blue
jade basalt
No they weren't literal cat eyes.
In truth, the only thing that stood out were her eyes—silver as with most night elves, but with an exotic, feline curve to them
That's literally just it.
High elves =/= Highborne. High elves are Highborne that became high elves. Ancient Highborne didn't look like modern high elves, that's because they were cut off from the Well and they started changing : they became shorter, their skin became pink-er, their hair blonde.
hollow dock
We weren't comparing their looks? Just the situation
jade basalt
Highborne wasn't a race or subspecies, it was a social caste. The nobles (most of them). Nobles looked just like the pleb. Highborne looked just like night elves;
steel venture
In game models don't always represent the actual lore, that was Vris's point.
Hell, Azshara is actually supposed to be darker than what her in game model is.
jade basalt
My point is that there is no contradiction between the game and the lore.
Highborne always looked like night elves.
steel venture
They originally based her off of fanart and then hastily redid it at the outcry.
proud karma
I'm sure there were some transitional ones in terms of looks
steel venture
Which, it's still actually wrong.
Azshara has deep violet skin. Closer to something that a Nightborne model would have. Instead of the blue that she has right now.
Similarly to how Velen is supposed to be ablaster, but they made him purple in game.
jade basalt
I'm talking about Highborne in general. Yes Azshara was supposed to have violet skin but that's one character or one retcon. There was never any statement about Highborne being widely different than other night elves, that is something fans came up with and spread the misconception.
They are literally just night elf nobles.
Not a subrace or anything.
steel venture
It'd make sense if they exhibited traits that are no longer in the majority of the population though, that doesn't make them a subrace nor was I claiming they were. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Just because redheads are uncommon, doesn't make them a new type of human or anything, for example.
jade basalt
My point is that the claim that the Highborne are supposed to look widely different than other night elves and that Blizzard messed up, is wrong. They were never supposed to. It's a common misconception, that is my point. They look just like night elves.
hollow dock
My point is that in game normally never properly represents the lore ¯_(ツ)_/¯
jade basalt
No one disagrees with that.
hollow dock
anways. N'zoth, Yoggy, the old gods are comin back
but remember folks: this is a Horde vs alliance expac
leaden garden
I think they're starting it like that, but its going to very quickly become an Old God xpac
We still have N'zoth to deal with and possible C'thun with Sargeras' sword reinvigorating Silithus
hollow dock
yea pandaria 2.0
leaden garden
Plus G'huun, the old god found in Nazir
jade basalt
I know it's a joke but to be fair "Battle for Azeroth" is quite an obviously ambiguous phrasing that is indeed intended to refer to both fighting for the factions and for the literal world
hollow dock
Yea but the blizzard guys say its nothing to do with old gods =^)
leaden garden
Cause Blizz never lies to do dramatic reveals lol
Which I think you were sarcastically implicating, but yeah we'll see
jade basalt
Not really, I was paraphrasing Afrasiabi himself who said yea yea factions and all but Battle for Azeroth also means battle for the literal world, and people forget that, that the world itself is now a character and it needs saving and blabla
leaden garden
I find it hard to believe we'll have an entire Xpac dedicated to Alli v Horde
They'd run out of content really quick, or we'd all just be dead at the end
hollow dock
what?! are you implying blizz is trying to mislead us to get more hype going for BFA so they'd possible sell more as we spread the word for them that the old gods are coming?!
that's pure evil and they'd never do that!
uncut vault
That shirtless high elf in Jainas angels is 👌👌👌
hollow dock
Jaina's Angels being all men 👌 👌 👌 👌
steel venture
I think Jaina's Angels is going to be a 3-man team that will be on the islands tbh.
They did mention they wanted the AI to feel more like players.
steel venture
... Also god, biggest prayer is that we get more skin tones during BFA, if they are enhancing customizations like they wished to. 🙏
Something other than 50 shades of paste + one spray tan for belves would be nice.
hollow dock
Please no. The memers will start becoming him and I'd like my Warcraft to not involve such politics
steel venture
Easy bans then. NBD.
leaden garden
Him?
hollow dock
him.
leaden garden
...Who's him?
uncut vault
Darker high/blood elf skin tones would be my dream tbh. Last real straw connecting them to Tolkien elves, and it’s the dumbest one
true matrix
god please
uncut vault
Let me have my elf be darker in game Blizz. I’ve been RPing it for years anyways
hollow dock
I refuse to say his name.
steel venture
Honestly every WoW race is stupidly pale when you think about it.
hollow dock
All wow races are stupid when you think about it
jade basalt
Pale orcs are too pale !
steel venture
Even if orcs are green they're all roughly the same shade of green but different hues.
And it doesn't match the mag'har shade at all.
Because it's distinctly lighter when you compare the values.
leaden garden
I'm guessing she means Trump lol
hollow dock
that name is cursed. Do not say it.
steel venture
And it takes us getting nightborne to get an elf with an actual dark tone.
Not even night elves get that dark without being a DK or a DH.
Desptie the lore saying they totally could.
uncut vault
I mean, when I say dark elves I mean like, actual dark elves. Not just pale and slightly less pale. 7k years in a land of eternal sunlight, someone’s got to have the proper skin.
steel venture
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
hollow dock
the lore also says high elves have a wide range of eyes including red and green.
leaden garden
You mean Drow?
leaden garden
I know, I'm asking if thats the kind of "dark" he's referring to
steel venture
No.
uncut vault
Not fake dark elves, naturally dark elves. Like black and brown skin tones.
true matrix
@uncut vault melanin? don't know her
leaden garden
Offering a comparison not suggesting there's actual drow lol
hollow dock
Ah, 'like the Drow' would have gotten that across. No worries.
steel venture
Honestly even if people claim that blood elves wouldn't get dark skin because it's technically always autumn in Eversong + it's in the north---
leaden garden
^ fair 'nuff lol
steel venture
They're surrounded by water.
which means their diet should have a TON of fish
fish produces melanin proteins in high concentrations
hollow dock
I mean. Their diet can be anything Xan
true matrix
I think it's canonically summer, actually (though it looks like autumn >:V)
hollow dock
they can conjure food out of nothing.
vEersong Woods stand in perpetual spring, with some elements of autumn, with golden leaves falling from the trees.
true matrix
they have a large number of well-crafted ships and sizeable harbours, I'd say they're nothing if not a sea-faring nation
leaden garden
Using that logic though, Night Elves should be paler than a Twilight Vampire's ass on the beach
atomic thistle
But can they conjure melanin?
true matrix
a fish-based diet makes a lot of sense, really
solid sparrow
Someone mentioned a drow and now I am thinking Neverwinter Nights
hollow dock
TBH they can make any food they want. They dont have to go out and get the food from the land.
leaden garden
@solid sparrow good game
steel venture
Not really though, because night elves already came from dark trolls.
It's harder to lose melanin than gain it.
And a sun tan is different than actually being dark skinned.
leaden garden
True
hollow dock
We're also assuming that biology is anywhere close to what reality is. Considering that we have walking and talking cows, bears and wolves.
leaden garden
Also true lol
steel venture
^ Which basically is like: Why NOT darker skin tones then though.
true matrix
^
steel venture
If a dragon and talking cow accepted.
hollow dock
Because the devs dont want it
true matrix
if someone can suspend their disbelief for talking cows and dragons but not dark-skinned elves or a gay couple, then that says a lot more about them than the media they're consuming.
hollow dock
If the devs dont want to put it in then they wont put it in :v
uncut vault
I more argue for darker high elves and not night elves because the tirisfal stuff plus new climates are specifically what turned them from dark troll and nelf skin tones to human like ones
hollow dock
Plus I'd wager they have much more pressing concerns than adding new skin tones to the races.
true matrix
if the devs won't put it in that's their right, just as it's the fans' right to criticise it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
uncut vault
Hence why I totally want a high elf allied race :p would be a perfect chance to both diversify thalassian elves, and give high elves something unique from blood elves, game wise.
hollow dock
Unless those high elves all turn void elf
uncut vault
I doubt it’ll happen now, but if it does ever it’s certainly what I’d love to see
hollow dock
Theres a lot of stuff I'd love to see in the game, but realistically speaking, none of it will really happen.
steel venture
TBH: Given what they did to dark iron they sort of shot themselves in the foot on their "high elves are too similar" comments.
hollow dock
blizz shoots themselves in the foot plenty of times
steel venture
They took what basically were just gray skin tones and red eyes and turned it into a masterpiece for Dark Irons.
uncut vault
I’m just waiting for them to release wildhammer someday, then there will be literally no excuse against high elves
hollow dock
I'd want all the ignored characters in lore to get added in before any more allied race junk
leaden garden
Wildhammer Druids would fit pretty well, so would Draenei druids
true matrix
I mean there is that one NPC in warspear
hollow dock
High elf druids too. Just every race is a druid now.
true matrix
dusky ginkgo
Belf druid ! /o/
true matrix
\o\
hollow dock
Fuck exclusivity just everything is everything now
steel venture
TBH Wildhammer and high elves would work, it'd just be calling back to RPG lore and making it canon.
true matrix
I mean, why not?
steel venture
Which they've done before.
dusky ginkgo
Am I falling in the middle of a rant? I just read high elf druid
true matrix
any race can be any class in D&D, it'd be fun to see what people come up with
hollow dock
why bother having classes. My warlock and mage both use magic, so they can both cast pyroblast and shadow bolt
dusky ginkgo
Yep, middle of a rant
steady rover
I wouldn't mind class-race restrictions being lifted. I could finally live my dream of being a Pandaren Warlock.
uncut vault
I mean, really, any race with arcane abilities and some kind of nature affinity could be in game druids. There have been worse offenses
hollow dock
everythings now a druid
uncut vault
There is that belf in the Botanica that turns into a treant
hollow dock
everything is everything and there's just no more exclusivity
true matrix
you're saying it like it's a bad thing
hollow dock
Ive had the chance to play with absolutely 0 restrictions on anything. It was a private server and it allowed you to have all three old WotLK talent trees filled
it was a terrible shitshow
uncut vault
It would take way too much work on Blizz‘s end, but adding visuals for different classes to actually match what the class means for that race would be great. Light that actually looks like the light of Elune for nelf priests would be wonderful
steady rover
Letting any race be any class is a bit different from letting everyone have all the talents at the same time.
uncut vault
They already do race specific forms and totems for druids and shamans, other classes really should get it too
hollow dock
paladins with the troll racial is absolutely fine, fair and balanced.
steady rover
Considering how nerfed the racials have become over the years, yes. It seems fine to me.
hollow dock
they haven' tnerfed the troll racial
its a mini-blood lust on a 2 min CD
In fact, the only racial that's been severely nerfed is the human racial as far as I know.
uncut vault
Belf is in BfA
tranquil steeple
1 min longer cd + shorter silence
hollow dock
Unless they remove racials all together, it's a terrible idea to give everyone every race.
tranquil steeple
wasn't it?
steady rover
Most of the racials have had number tweaks over the course of all the expansions. CD's increased. Durations changed. Etc. Most aren't very big but they've been there in the patch notes for each expac.
Either way, last I checked, the racials rarely account for more than a couple percentage points of dps increase at best.
hollow dock
that's all tha tneeds to be done to create an imbalance that blizzard doesnt want
true matrix
only if everyone cares about minmaxing
steady rover
Right...
hollow dock
I care about gameplay and not causing more issues and work for blizzard than is already presented. Adding more chaos into that mix is always a bad sign. It'd be nice, but I always take the side of realism.
steady rover
You do you.
sullen dagger
dude, placing a copule that is homosexual for the plot is aok. putting a homosexual copule beacuse LGBT reasons isnt
terse patrol
^
steady rover
Where did that come from?
terse patrol
idk
hollow dock
At Ports sadness of the Silvermoon Mage couple not being gay
that's what that was at Bjorn
proud karma
im just confused, how is a romance plot not a plot
proud karma
90% of the npcs are like that?
steady rover
Ah I see. -shrugs- Far as I'm concerned, you can make any NPC homosexual for no reason at all and its fine. Cause ya know, people are different.
proud karma
they gotta be doing something
strange falcon
omg,there's a charlie's angels reference in bfa alpha xD "jaina's angels"
proud karma
omg
hollow dock
N'zoth and Yogg-saron, Ozumat as well
Theyre comin boys.
And I can't wait to happily flip the script and lend my aid to the Black Empire
dense plover
im hoping the ridlah thing is just jokes upon jokes
misty blaze
im gonna be sure to keep jaina safe the majority of the expansion cause cant let her ever die
strange falcon
playing both factions 
hollow dock
What if Jaina and Sylvanas attack each other?
Who do you protect and who do you attack?
misty blaze
i have a plan for that.. ill step in between and say ladies lets be loving and not fighting 😃
hollow dock
and if they still attack each other regardless?
strange falcon
thats why you dont play 2 factions
misty blaze
my delima is this i like both of them cause they sexy 😃
strange falcon
**dilemma
misty blaze
🤷
strange falcon
how is an edgy elf that has anemia sexy
misty blaze
she has big booobs/breast does it matter to any guy <.<
hollow dock
I know plenty of guys who see a corpse on her despite the boobs
misty blaze
eye candy is eye candy what can i say 😃
hollow dock
How is a corpse eye candy!?
misty blaze
idk i just dont think any other lore characters on horde side pass the test
hollow dock
Thrall, Garrosh, freakin Lor'themar are all great eye candy.
misty blaze
yeah maybe if you liked men i only like women
hollow dock
Hell Liadrin would be better eye candy :v
true matrix
^
misty blaze
yea shes ok i suppose
misty blaze
i would love tois ee vanessa and andruin hook up would be nice for alliance
prolly too late for that now
hollow dock
Valeera isn't to interested. Anduin neither. he likes the goat ladies.
misty blaze
andruin needs a queen consort i dont know why blizzard never pursued that route yet
true matrix
I think he meant vancleef
hollow dock
Because he's 17 years old?
true matrix
which is even more dull
misty blaze
vanessa is older now is she not
hollow dock
Oh yea no VanCleef absolutely has no interest in him.
His father got her father killed
true matrix
oh boy, sounds like an ideal romance :|a
hollow dock
Im not sure what Vanessas actual age is.
I think she'd be older than Anduin
by like maybe 3 years?
strange falcon
imo she's around 22ish
hollow dock
sounds about right. 21-22 when we see her in Legion
misty blaze
i wonder if we will hear any storyline of thralls kid aggra and him had any time soon
hollow dock
misty blaze
id like to see vanessa as hero on heroes of the storm
true matrix
the rubber spine... the disproportionate legs... the bizarre arm posing... 😹
hollow dock
why is her butt so unnaturally to us
Her face looks photoshopped on
was this a professionally done picture?!
Blizzard better demand their money back
true matrix
IT'S SO BAD I'M SOBBING
hollow dock
LOOK AT HER KNEES
THEYRE SO TINY
ITS LIKE GARROSHS' HEAD ALL OVER AGAIN
this is Lucio and Hanzo's legs all over again
honest wraith
She broke her arms?
misty blaze
leveling allied races is kinda fun im seeing lore i missed out on when i was speed leveling all those years ago
true matrix
TWO (2) DISLOCATED SHOULDERS
hollow dock
https://crystal-cdn4.crystalcommerce.com/photos/852872/DungeonTreasure_US_33.jpg thank god they redid it
thorny urchin
Those boobs defy gravity
misty blaze
thats nothing look at ysera or alexs boobs they very godly
true matrix
@hollow dock I still have my qualms but at least she doesn't look like an eldritch abomination made manifest in a vaguely humanoid shape
true matrix
it's a lot better yes
on that note I really liked how they updated alex's look for HotS
true matrix
I like it personally
I also like that they gave her some goddamn trousers jesus christ
hollow dock
because she's not a corpse I appreciate how she is designed.
uncut vault
She'll probably never be a hero in HotS, simply because her dad is more iconic
And Valeera took a lot of the rogue stuff she would have
hollow dock
I can see VanCleef being focused more on posions but Lunara kinda took that spot with Ana. )
uncut vault
Daddy VanCleef will probably take the combat/outlaw rogue spot