I am exalted with everything at least 5, times over
#beta-ptr-spoilers
tidal mauve
hollow dock
where in the embassy?
My bet is that its leftover resource from the garrison.
That looks like the horde one.
In reused assets from WoD yes.
jade basalt
Blizz whom has a reputable track-record of never placing things without ulterior motives
Are we talking about the same Blizz
hollow dock
You'd be amazed at how much they reuse and just leave stuff behind when they reuse buildings
hollow dock
Oh yea when they had to redesign the area.
but if theyre just plopping down a reused building
theyre not going to be a stickler to detail there
jade basalt
They literally take any NPC or doodad that might remotely fit and use it, no matter the context (temporal or spatial). "care to detail" come on, some fish are labeled as Humanoid.
hollow dock
also the garrison building was put in before Ion gave that passing one off statement
Id be fine in that.
jade basalt
Nope because that's not what I'm debating.
Just Blizz whom has a reputable track-record of never placing things without ulterior motives
hollow dock
OK?
What can you buy stuff with credibility?
when blizz updates them
that's when we should expect them to get updated
yup
Its an alpha, things get put on there when theyre ready. Theres no schedule.
leaden garden
^
jade basalt
You guys will get great news this week about both WC3 and BFA.
hollow dock
Im doubtful
Unless its to announce Vulpera never get allied race, or Sethrakk go alliance, it'll never be great news about BFA
leaden garden
My mind what news?
WHAT NEWS DAMN YUUU
Dunno, what news?
Should'a changed it to "Nobody" so that it says "Nobody is typing..."
hollow dock
its another 'leak' I bet
steel venture
I for one welcome our snake overlords if thats the news
true matrix
snake gays (snays),
hollow dock
THE SNAYS
true matrix
no they're just emo
strange falcon
sneks
steel venture
Naga definitely.
Sethrak probably
hollow dock
THE SNAY SNEEPLE
hollow dock
that you know of Mane
strong python
sorry guys
hollow dock
Female Arakkoa exist but theres no defining features between male and female
leaden garden
Worgen didn't have a female model until Cata either
hollow dock
^
leaden garden
Admittedly the female model wasn't a huge improvement though....
hollow dock
the alpha female model was
leaden garden
I don't think I saw that
hollow dock
They not having a female model means nothing
leaden garden
Oh dang, yeah that does look way better, why did they do away with that?
true matrix
androgynous player races pls and thank you
hollow dock
All never meant to be player characters.
I only want Sethrakk if theyre adding in the veeple.
So I can lead a proper extermination of the veeple
they haven't but you should see people vehemetly say theyre being added in cuz they got some extra details other NPCs dont have
apparently some face stuff as well
Oh who was it that was advocating the feeple here.
Which is something theyve done in the past but ya know
Because it was this way with the Lightforged and Velves
clearly the feeple are being added in
strange falcon
imo for april fools they should put in sheeple as a playable race,and they can only be mages,and the entirety of their kit is polymorph with 0 cooldown
hollow dock
Which is why I want sneeple pu tin. to hunt down the feeple
The feeple will be hunted down by the sneeple in the grandest crusade since the scourge war!
horde
cuz theyre labeled horde
Oh I fully believe they wont get added in
But I willadmit, I think theyre just goblins in the same situation as the Gilbin
Lorewise I mean
strange falcon
mane,the alliance already has their own furrybois
hollow dock
Meaning how they came to be fox people.
I do.
Keep the furries away. furries attract the weebs
Oh Im sorry are the moving rocks, space goats, british werewolves, amazon warriors, and walking footballs boring just because humans exist?
meager warren
"moving rocks"?
strange falcon
vris now imagine a sneeple rogue with the rapiers(outlaw mage tower)
meager warren
orcs aren't rocks.
they're descended from rocks. learn the difference
hollow dock
Dwarves are rocks
meager warren
dwarves aren't rocks
hollow dock
yes they are
meager warren
^
strange falcon
saying diamonds are rocks 
meager warren
does Magni, a single rock/ mineral dwarf existing, suddenly mean they're all that?
hollow dock
yes
meager warren
smh
meager warren
i mean, at least try to have some sort of logic, Vris
meager warren
I thought you liked the alliance, Vris
hollow dock
When did I ever say that?
meager warren
when you called the Horde "barbarians" a while back
meager warren
and the alliance aren't?
meager warren
i rest my case
hollow dock
theyre stuffed up bigots who hide behind big ol' walls
horde are barbaric monstrosities that need to be put down
and he chose the wrong side.
meager warren
every military structure needs walls to protect themselves.
The Horde and Alliance are military structures
Close enough.
The Tauren, Orcs, and Trolls had an agreement which allowed them to form the modern Horde
hollow dock
Yea and they ought to be wiped out. Alliance needs to be broken.
Remove factions, save the world
mild current
Honestly, I have more sympathy for the Horde.
leaden garden
#weareazeroth
meager warren
I agree with that but I don't agree that the Horde, in its entirety, are barbarians
hollow dock
they rape, pillage and plunder since day one.
mild current
The Orcs were tricked by the Legion to kill their planet, forcing them to migrate to Azeroth in droves, not in a safe way, and the races of the Kingdoms never quite forgave them for what the Legion ordered them to do.
leaden garden
There's actually a lot of Horde that aren't really barbarians and don't do the whole rape and pillage thing
meager warren
pillage and plunder, sure.
but rape? since when?
hollow dock
Legion didn't order them to slaughter the people of Azeroth. they did that on their own violition.
leaden garden
In fact I'd say most of the horde is beyond that at this point, it's been a couple decades since the events of WC3
hollow dock
Remember Garona?
You think her Draenei mother wanted that orc willingly?
its not been a couple decades since then Benj
strange falcon
since the medieval age
meager warren
The Legion ordered the Horde to conquer Azeroth.
They couldn't do that with the Alliance in their way.
So, out with the Alliance and in with Legion Azeroth
hollow dock
it's been less than ten years since then
leaden garden
Well given that WoW came out in 2004 and WC3 came out in the.... late 90s? Like 99 or something, and WoW has largely been chronological with no determined "game time" differentiation
meager warren
@strange falcon the medieval age is a historical thing and not a fantastical thing.
WoW is based on Fantasy and very little of it is based on History.
I have no memories of the Horde raping anyone.
If the Horde did do that however, then the Alliance probably did too.
leaden garden
I'd say no it hasn't been less than a decade lol
hollow dock
WC3 happens, four years later Vanillas events happen one year later BCs events happen, one year later WotLK, one year later cata, two years later pandaria, one year later WoD right after is Legion.
That's the WoW timeline
leaden garden
Where is that timeline?
strange falcon
i'm all for horde,so i wasnt saying that the horde raped anyone(which they didnt) actually it's the alliance that raped a lot of people,as in with all the crusade cults that pop around
like the scarlet crusade
leaden garden
Like where does it specifically give those numbers? I'm curious
strange falcon
and all that
mild current
The blood elves were outcasts from the Alliance, painted as villains because of the good ol' Sunwell and Arthas' rise to power. The Tauren weren't any kind of villains. They allied to the Orcs on Kalimdor due to the mutually beneficial pact, and they were already peaceful towards the night elves. Thrall understood that peace, and cultivated it, but Thrall didn't have all orcs and trolls under his banners. The Gurubashi trolls and the Dragonmaw orcs were more than capable of making the more influencial Alliance races consider the entire species horrible. The Undead... well, just wanted to live in peace, which Sylvanas ruined in Cataclysm.
Honestly, out of the Horde races, I can't see anyone except Sylvanas as a real villain.
Yep.
mild current
Who needs visual guides LUL
meager warren
"I can't see anyone except Sylvanas as a real villain"
Spot. On.
hollow dock
Theyre all barbarians.
hollow dock
Every last one of em. Slaughter em all, let god sort em out
mild current
Because we as humanity are so much better.
leaden garden
According to that the fall of Stormwind was year 3-5 and the events of WoD are year 31
mild current
I still play Horde quite willingly. I love Sylvanas, I think she's a great character, but I don't think she's a hero. I think she's incredibly selfish. And I'm excited to see that in BFA.
hollow dock
Yup. and right after WoD is Legion.
leaden garden
So that right there is almost 20 years between WoD and the Orcs pouring into Azeroth
Actually that's more than 20 years
hollow dock
WC3 isn't when orcs poured into azeroth
mild current
WC3 isn't the fall of Stormwind either.
hollow dock
That's WC1
leaden garden
The New Horde was formed in Year 18 with Thrall as the Warchief
So still 13 years to WoD
And then another couple of years to Legion
meager warren
Humans send soldiers in to way just to die.
They rape and murder innocents to gain land and resources instead of asking them.
They're bigotted towards each other.
So how are humans any better, Vris?
hollow dock
Warcraft 3 is Hyjal and the rise of Arthas
Why are you all assuming Im saying the otehr side is better?
leaden garden
Yes and WC3 is when the Orcs are no longer doing the Viking thing
Thrall is leading them and getting them away from the Viking thing
Trying to, at least
meager warren
because you keep saying that one side is horrible without referencing the attrocities of the other side as well
leaden garden
According to the timeline you posted, yes it has been over a decade
hollow dock
So? I hate one side more than the other.
meager warren
and, why do you hate one side more than the other?
leaden garden
Okay not decades, plural, but it's definitely not less than 10 like you suggested either
hollow dock
WC3 ends in year 22. Its now year 32. that's not over 10 years.
Maybe year 33 now with the end of legion.
leaden garden
WC3 begins in 18
mild current
But, hey, Vris, I ask you this, what place remains the same for 20 years? During warfare? During trials of will? I tell you, no place remains the same. And that's why you can't call out an orc for what happened during the first invasion of Azeroth. Some of them are decendants of the ones who initially came to Azeroth. Of course, the invasions were fueled by a will to keep the orcish young safe from a dying world, but I hardly think you can give offspring the blame for what happened.
leaden garden
Which is the timeline where the orcs stop being Viking like
Also according to this timeline: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_(unofficial)
mild current
As for the rise of Arthas and the invasion of Hyjal, need I remind you that Elves, Humans and the new Horde all banded together to stop Archimonde?
leaden garden
Legion begins in year 43
leaden garden
Which is.... 25 years after WC3 begins
hollow dock
Its not the blizzard canon. :v
meager warren
Nothing on Gamepedia is the blizzard "canon" if u want to view it that way.
but people still use Gamepedia
mild current
Did you know that the blizzard canon also is that orcs aren't a savage, bloodthirsty race, but a proud and honorable people?
hollow dock
Gamepedia labels what is canon and what isnt
leaden garden
Blizzard cannon doesn't seem to have any official timeline, this is mostly what people are determining from various novels and timelines
canon*
meager warren
They were a savage, bloodthirsty race, under the command of Blackhand.
But Blackhand is fucking dead
hollow dock
Did you know that's completely false and theyve always been before the legion
so you're both wrong on that
hollow dock
and Benj, the Ultimate Visual Guide is where this timeline is from. Something blizzard had printed out. that is the timeline.
hollow dock
You really didn't watch the Lords of War stuff huh?
Their blood rage has always been in the race.
meager warren
How is what i just said wrong?
Blackhand was a shitty person.
He commanded a shitty army.
Then he died and the army got better
hollow dock
: They were a savage, bloodthirsty race, under the command of Blackhand.
That is false as they were a savage bloodthirsty race before the Legion or Blackhand
mild current
Vris is deranged, he'll believe they're horrible because he doesn't like their skin tone or posture. It really doesn't go deeper than that.
meager warren
Sources?
hollow dock
Lords of War: Durotan.
leaden garden
hollow dock
I told you all before y'all went on this that I was a racist bigot
And you all didn't believe me
now you believe it?
meager warren
Lords of War isn't canon either because that's from WoD.
mild current
WoD being an alternate dimension.
uncut gorge
Never judge a person (or orc) by their ancestors. Thrall is a good example of that.
meager warren
^
hollow dock
LoW is canon. It's not an alternate dimension, its an alternate timeline. What happens there has nearly mimiced our timeline with the exception of several key events that turn certain people to do certain things
mild current
To be fair, Thrall's bloodline was pretty damn great.
hollow dock
Like Ner'zhuls wife not having perished, Garroshs' mother dying early, etc.
mild current
If it's a timeline, then that means that the Outland we know shouldn't actually exist, but it still does.
hollow dock
You dont know what 'alternate timeline' means do you?
This is far from the first time blizz has had us go into a different timeline to our own.
One such example is Twilight of the Aspects, Thrall goes to another timeline where he perished as a baby and Blackmoore attacked the alliance with his own Orcish horde.
meager warren
"alternate timeline" being,
an "alternate universe" basically.
Have you seen "Crisis on Infinite Earths" directed by Sam Liu and Lauren Montgomery?
Alternate Timelines are different. They're alternate from the main timeline
hollow dock
Arthas and Jaina had married and fled into Theramore, Arthas never became Lich King.
meager warren
You can't cite WoD lore as evidence for your presumptions
hollow dock
It's an alternate timeline as it does alternate from our timeline.
mild current
On a completely different note, I'm amazed that someone names edgy troll isn't trolling.
hollow dock
I dont think anyone here is actually trolling atm.
hollow dock
I really am not.
mild current
+1
hollow dock
WoD, and Lords of War is canon, whether you want it to be or not.
meager warren
well, i reiterate, can't cite WoD lore as evidence for your presumptions.
Especially not if you want to be taken seriously
hollow dock
It is an alternate timeline, whether you want it to be or not.
Everything that's happened in WoD, except a few key events like Hellscreams wife dying and Ner'zhuls wife surviving, is canon to our timeline as depicted in Vol. 2 of Chronicles.
mild current
And that's exactly why wo isn't Canon to the base Azerothian timeline.
hollow dock
Yet it is? Outland used to be Draenor
meager warren
When an alternate timeline is created, it alters not only the present but the past and the future
hollow dock
And it did alter.
mild current
He's using future events to justify his hatred for orcs in the past. See the loophole? It's literally a paradox.
hollow dock
Ner'zhuls wife had not perished, thus he never became the sad orc he is in Golden's book Rise of the Horde.
Garrosh's mother had perished, thus he'll never be born in that timeline.
Durotan and Draka, as well as the Orcs in that timeline, do not venture to Azeroth
These are all massive deviations from our timeline
meager warren
everything aside from a few minor details isn't the same in the main timeline as it is in WoD's
hollow dock
These details are minor to what is being talked about: Orc biology.
meager warren
and them being massive deviations, is my point.
Again, cite the main timeline for evidence if there actually is evidence for what you're saying. Not the alt timeline
hollow dock
In which, in Rise of the Horde, orcs are also described to still be bloodthirsty warmongers. Those like the Frostwolves weren't and actively repressed it.
Rise of the Horde, as written by Chrstine golden, takes place during our timeline in our draenor.
meager warren
so, you admit that there are exceptions because orcs is an entire race of people?
hollow dock
Yes? I generalize. Now we're getting specific and thus require the specification.
Not to mention:
meager warren
this entire conversation has been about generalizations
hollow dock
Lords of war was being told FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF MARAAD IN OUR TIMELINE. HIS EXPERIENCES WHILE HE WAS ON OUR DRAENOR
So yes
theyre canon to our timeline
mild current
I thought you sad Lords of War was about Draenor, not Outland.
hollow dock
Because of what happened to it
however
it was Draenor in the past when the orcs left it
mild current
You dont call Europe the Roman Empire even though it used to be
meager warren
no
hollow dock
so you dont call the Roman Empire the Roman Empire when talking about the Roman Empire
mild current
Ah, screw it, I literally can't drill through that skull.
meager warren
you refer to the Roman Empire when referring to the Roman Empire, not Europe.
meager warren
Present day europe /=/ the Roman Empire
Vris, that video was presented around 2014.
It's likely not relevant now and everything in it will at some point be refuted if it hasn't already
hollow dock
Yes it is relevant to OUR conversation about this being canon to OUR timeline and the events of WoD having happened within our own.
It being 4 years old, and having been reinforced in the Chronicles volume about Draenor, makes it canon.
meager warren
we've also had conversations about how Blizzard's word isn't reliable so
tulip torrent
hollow dock
never
dense plover
yeah, the draenor we went to and outland were approximately the same up until right before we show up
grom was going to drink the fel
then he didnt
hollow dock
a little bit before then it started to deviate as well.
dense plover
changing all of the consequences that wouldve followed over the next several months
a bit
but in general
all of the warlord backstories are exactly the same
lords of war is canon to the main timeline
thats the entire purpose
hollow dock
@mild current
dense plover
maraad explaining the walords from outland draenor
and how they are probably the same people on draenor draenor
which they were
hollow dock
ty peach.
dense plover
np
hollow dock
Theres a very small chance it'll happen.
It could always get added in later, but for now it doesn't seem likely.
odd aspen
I believe
terse patrol
bring maraad back via AU Draenor pls
hollow dock
He had already died in AT Draenor didn't he?
wild pewter
Doesn't mean he doesn't have an AU version of himself, like Romuul
jovial coral
Will those heritage armor sets only be obtainable during the bfa expac
hollow dock
That's an odd question to ask Brown. Considering BFA isnt out yet we can attain the heritage armor sets for these allied races.
jovial coral
Well when bfa is over and the the xpac after that begins
hollow dock
The heritage armor is here to stay. We have never been told its expac exclusive, just race exclusive and you can't earn it if you Race change or Boost it.
We will be told if things are getting removed or will become unattainable, so keep a close ear to Blizzard or WoWhead.
jovial coral
To make them xpac exclusive would add that little something extra down the line
But if blizzard told people it was they'd be like 6?!!
hollow dock
Not really?
The only thing they make 'expac exclusive' are expac specific legendary questlines. Like the cloak and the ring from Pandaria and WoD. That's about it for expac exclusivity.
strange falcon
**mage tower and pvp skins
hollow dock
Oh wai tno there are acheivments that are expac exclusive.
Actually Dafire, you can still attain all of those skins post Legion
you simply wont attain them as transmoggable skins.
strange falcon
i heard you cant attain the magetower or prestige skins altogether
not the prestige colorations
the prestige 2 one
hollow dock
Is it? Have they updated their information somewhere?
sage tapir
it's been like that since they announced bfa
strange falcon
i think they said "you can do it if its up after bfa,but it wont give any appearances
hollow dock
^
sage tapir
yes
hollow dock
that's what I remember hearing at the QnA
strange falcon
when i say it wont give any appearances,it means you dont even get the one on your artifact wep neither the trasmoggable one
so it's literally unobtainable
hollow dock
The mage tower and its challenge aren't getting removed, you just wont earn the transmog skin. You can still obtain the skin itself as far as I'm aware and no new information, to my knowledge, conflicts with this.
strange falcon
well afaik you cant get the skin itself either
hollow dock
I ask for where you heard differently.
sage tapir
wowhead
hollow dock
Please link me that article as the 7.3 QnA has differing information.
sage tapir
just dig through it a bit
hollow dock
or better yet,
sage tapir
the 7.3 qna is outdated info
strange falcon
the QnA has vague information as they always do,they always clarify later
sage tapir
idk why it even matters
strange falcon
on wow forums
hollow dock
@jade basalt Have you heard anything about the Mage tower challenge being fully removed from the game? Last I heard you simply won't unlock the transmog apperance.
sage tapir
like if you dont get it for mogs whats the point
hollow dock
its still something to earn and have.
Why do you think people grind out old legendaries to this day?
sage tapir
yeah but it's pointless
hollow dock
It's something to earn and have.
sage tapir
old legendaries actually give you something you can use
strange falcon
vris,the magetower can be done and completed after bfa,but you get ABSOLUTELY NOTHING,not the trasmog,not the skin on your artifact,NOTHING
hollow dock
But its pointless because you'll never use it anyways
sage tapir
yes but the item itself is there
hollow dock
So are the artifact weapons
hollow dock
Customizable in the idea that you won't get any new relics from BFA onwards. Because its meant specifically for Legion.
strange falcon
yeah
jade basalt
@hollow dock They didn't precise, just said the appearances won't be unlockable anymore
sage tapir
you also don't get appearances and don't get to change anything about the weapon
hollow dock
thank you Quiet.
strange falcon
the leveling in legion will go the same as it is now,there are no changes to artifact weapons other than the fact you're not using them past 110(bfa)
hollow dock
My case stands. As far as we know, the apperance can still be unlocked you just won't earn the transmog apperance.
hollow dock
They will be. you won't earn them as transmog
hollow dock
Guys, unlocking them for your specific artifact and then unlocking them for transmog are 2 seperate things
hollow dock
Sak, they intend for all the skins for our artifacts to be transmog
strange falcon
since blizz is lazy bastards they'll do the same code,it will check if you have it unlocked then make you able to trasmog
sage tapir
i know that
jade basalt
I meant in terms of transmog, I think.
"All Artifact appearancesโwith the exception of the Mage Tower and Mythic Keystone 15 challenge appearancesโcan be obtained after Legion ends."
hollow dock
Certain skins like our Challenge mode and PVP skins won't be earned as transmog post Legion.
Thank you Quiet, that's what I knew as well.
strange falcon
after bfa the mage tower one will be like the secret appearance,it will outright not show up at all on the appearance tab for your artifact
sage tapir
with the EXCEPTION of the mage tower and keystone 15
which mean
s
they won't be obtainable
at all
because that content is going away
jade basalt
And also
UPDATE: If you unlock the Mage Tower's base appearance before the end of the expansion, you can obtain the color variants for that appearance post-Legion.
sage tapir
yes
strange falcon
the same goes for the pvp one
jade basalt
So pretty vague on the wording, that's all I know.
hollow dock
That line is speaking of their transmog is it not Quiet?
jade basalt
Don't know, wording is rather vague.
sage tapir
it's not talking about transmog it's about the appearances themselves
strange falcon
"the color variations" is clearly the artifact itself
jade basalt
"Unlocking an appearance" would normally refer the skin in your artifact forge
sage tapir
yes
strange falcon
exactly
hollow dock
Someone should tweet to the devs then. Just to be sure.
sage tapir
i'll do it when i can be arsed to change my pass on twitter
hollow dock
So never then? Great.
sage tapir
probably
jade basalt
It might be odd to let you get the actual skin but not be able to transmog it one might argue
sage tapir
it makes no sense
jade basalt
There was also a forum post, if I can find it
hollow dock
I can argue that its odd to allow us to earn old legendaries that are useless.
strange falcon
old legendaries are there for the questline
the legion legos
are just random drops
hollow dock
Sulfuras doesn't.
hollow dock
Thori'dal doesn't.
sage tapir
yes it does
hollow dock
Both are drops.
sage tapir
both have shitloads of lore behind them
hollow dock
So do the artifacts if you take a moment to actually read.
sage tapir
which cant be said about artifact skins
crystal forum
hold on
sage tapir
artifacts do have lore
hollow dock
[7:13 PM] Saksija: none of the artifact crap has that
crystal forum
you cant tmog ur new stuff into artifacts? what about druid cat forms??
hollow dock
You can Shant if you earn it pre-BFA
strange falcon
@crystal forum you're missing context,we're saying that after legion you cant get the magetower stuff anymore
crystal forum
ohhhhh okay
sage tapir
so arguing that artifact skins and old legendaries are the same is quite odd
crystal forum
sorry >.< i misunderstood
hollow dock
They both are old things in the game that aren't relevant to the current standing of anything other than something personal that you can flaunt for having gone and gotten in a community that would rather sit AFK on a flying mount in the expacs hub city.
sage tapir
and here you are completely dodging the fact that legendaries have lore and interesting story while artifact skins have none
jade basalt
Same similar wording on the forum post
Regarding the Mage Tower appearance. If you unlock your Mage Tower appearance before Legion is over, you will still be able to earn the colour variants of it post-Legion.
Likewise the colour variants of the Balance of Power appearance will still be obtainable post-Legion, with the exception of the Mythic +15 variant which needs to be obtained before Legion ends.
Prestige appearances will still be obtainable after Legion, though the exact manner in which they are earned may change.
sage tapir
i didn't go through the trouble of getting thunderfury and shadowmourne to sit afk and show it off, i went through it for the story of those items
hollow dock
Story's not really relevant to it staying? They pulled the cape and ring despite them having a very long and extensive story.
So much more than most of the old legendaries we currently have in the game.
sage tapir
they had very little story outside of "the celestials kinda made this crap" and "khadgar likes rings so he made this"
they're shoved into the game with no prior lore
strange falcon
they said shortly after release they were expac specific
hollow dock
Sulfuras has very little story outside of 'its Ragnaros' hammer'
Thori'dal has little to no story tied to it.
sage tapir
certainly still more than the craptastic mop and wod ones
hollow dock
Yet they don't? It took 2 years for us to earn the cape and ring. Yet it takes what. 2 mnths to get a bow and a little bit longer for a hammer?
strange falcon
arguing with vris is like trying to teach a monkey how to solve equations
sage tapir
that's just gameplay mechanics
hollow dock
Hammers not even actually Ragnaros'. It's just a facimily you make with his essence.
dark current
Essence? So it's not Ragnos' Hammer, it is literally Ragnaros the hammer! ^^
hollow dock
yea pretty much
wooden topaz
What is gโhuun Iโm doing this for opinions
steel venture
IMO: Artifical Old God, created for research purposes by the Titans.
wooden topaz
How is it artificial if in the Warcraft 3 manual for the ordering of Azeroth it talks about five old gods
steel venture
The five old god statement has not been canon since. Blizzard has refuted it multiple times, G'huun has been experimented on and is locked away in a titan facility.
G'huun's theme is also blood.
We know that Titans use Anima, a blood-like substance, to fleshshape creatures into existance.
wooden topaz
Where is it retconned in
steel venture
Chronicle, CDevs, Interviews, etc.
wooden topaz
Also in the text in the bfa alpha currently it calls him an old god
steel venture
Until G'huun is 100% explained, it doesn't matter.
There is one reference to it, and it is in an incomplete cutscene during BFA alpha.
meager warren
who's more powerful, on average? Titans or Old Gods?
wooden topaz
How do we know it was created by the titans
steel venture
Titans.
meager warren
ty
wooden topaz
Void lords
meager warren
aren't Void Lords just warlock minions
steel venture
Also, the plotline may change and it may even become just a construct gone wrong. BFA is still in development. @wooden topaz
Do not take alpha lore as 100% factual at this current point in time.
wooden topaz
Doesnโt mean anything blizzard can keep ret conning but Iโm going to keep following Warcraft 3 lore since it started something for world of Warcraft
steel venture
... Okay? So you're following mostly non-canon material.
๐ค That's really uh ... sticking it to the man? Material that they've scrapped and tossed out?
meager warren
Warcraft 3 lore is pretty much obsolete.
Pretty much the only lore you should be reading to keep up to date is the lore volumes that are released during the latest expac
steel venture
You must also ignore what Draenei are now then too, because they were basically ALL severely mutated during WC3.
meager warren
and "doesn't mean anything" is a great refutation. Really
jade basalt
Huge majority of WC3 is still canon. But yea sticking just to WC3 and ignoring 15 years of story development is a weird choice
meager warren
^
wooden topaz
How about we follow our own opinions until the new expansion comes out
steel venture
You must also ignore the fact that Malfurion, Illidan and Tyrande's ages from the WC3 manual make absolutely no sense given that they supposedly grew up together but... the Stormrage brothers are three-thousand years OLDER than Tyrande in the WC3 manual.
New lore > Old lore. Every time, it's not really a choice. :T
meager warren
but when we follow "our own opinions", we're not following what we know
true matrix
"there are four old gods" isn't an opinion, it's factually correct
steel venture
^
jovial coral
I'm jealous of how knowledgeable some of you guys are on the WOW universe
meager warren
well hey, some of us probably spend too much time reading and re-reading lore text for stuff.
My specialty in that case, is MARVEL more or less
oh, and Joker
true matrix
I'm autistic, hyperfocussing on specific interests is what I do best
zinc sandal
Same
dense plover
that also
meager warren
i rped on a forum once.
that kinda died down tho and now i do it a lot less.
never rped with other non-AI people in games tho
ruby prawn
What do rp-ers want as a new race?
meager warren
vermin
ruby prawn
Sounds like a great addition
I think Blizzard is gonna add those bodyguards that the goblins have instead of ogres
Do they get new textures?
meager warren
wut bodyguards? goblins have anything but money? since when
ruby prawn
The ogre looking guys
From Kezan
You sneaked past them to retrieve some jewelry or something before escaping on that boat
forest lynx
The big dumb goblin ogre oaf things?
forest lynx
I doubt it, they seem to just be using races that share a basic model with existing races
ruby prawn
No, they aren't
meager warren
i just want to get the race that Rexxar belongs to
meager warren
why not?
Rexxar shares the orc model, just bigger and different color skin
ruby prawn
Unless we get a rexxar model for the horde and a Kalec model for alliance
meager warren
it's do-able
forest lynx
There totally are smart ogres
ruby prawn
It's a combo between an ogre and an orc
meager warren
and..? i never said it wasn't.
that's precisely why i want to see them
ruby prawn
It's do able
I was thinking maybe they aren't very unique, but I remembered the allied races in bfa
The Zandalari are probably the only new models
meager warren
None of the allied races, but the Void Elves, could be considered unique
ruby prawn
The male Zandalari that is
meager warren
wut?
as a race, the zandalari trolls have already existed.
The model of the troll was used in MoP.
The species of the troll has been used in Classic and, i think, cata?
ruby prawn
Yeah, but the model we get as a playable race is different from these allied races. New casting animations and stuff like that
meager warren
yes but the model isn't new.
still osprey
I think the zandalari male share the nightelf male skeleton
uncut vault
Their skeleton mixes night elf and troll anims on the alpha
ruby prawn
I hope they don't have the nelf skeleton
I am bored of that
I wanna see the casting animations
If they are the same as the nelf ones, I am gonna go to Hazzikostas himself and tell him to change the animations while slipping 50 bucks in his pocket
meager warren
he's not gonna give u the time of day for just 50 bucks
ruby prawn
I'm gonna give him 50 euros and tell him it's exotic money and it's worth thousands in Us Dollars
meager warren
and he's likely gonna laugh at u
and have you forcefully removed from the premises
meager warren
unless you can provide something beneficial to the Blizzard team, why would they do that
ruby prawn
I did provide them with sth beneficial. A GREAT idea related to their game.
It's important feedback
meager warren
if they want ideas, they can go look at minecraft suggestions
dense plover
actually zandalari have a mix of troll, and nightelf animations
along with some unique casting animations and emote animations
ruby prawn
I hate the nelf animations
uncut vault
Zandalari in ToT use em too
ruby prawn
ToT stands for?
jovial coral
Throne of thunder
odd aspen
Ye but what about zandalari with monk animations
uncut vault
Same as any other race, just using the monk animation rig
hollow dock
Personally Exso, Id want an androgynous race added in. Itd never happen because sales but I think itd go a long way for the rp community.
ruby prawn
Why would you want that
There already are androgynous draenei and nelves in Goldshire
hollow dock
That isn't androgynous.
ruby prawn
Yeah, but they roleplay as one
uncut vault
Thats not what androgynous means.
subtle flower
Ooh, yeah, that'd be really cool to have.
Even if there is still a male/female choice, they could make the differences between them subtle.
ruby prawn
Why would it be cool
subtle flower
It'd be completely different than anything we have already.
subtle flower
I can't think of any really gender ambiguous race.
ruby prawn
We actually have an androgynous race
The dwarves
There is no difference between male and female
Only the beards
subtle flower
That is false.
ruby prawn
Just as you said, slight differences
subtle flower
Their body types are quite different.
ruby prawn
:P
subtle flower
Their faces are quite different.
ruby prawn
It was a joke
subtle flower
I imagine their voices are also quite different.
You... did not make that very apparent.
ruby prawn
It's a stereotype
long wyvern
Wait, there are female dwarves?
long wyvern
subtle flower
Ah, sorry, I haven't been introduced to that meme yet.
mild current
I've heard of female dwarves in long lost folktales.
Recent theories suggest that dwarves simply spawn from stone, though.
subtle flower
I do wanna say that Blizzard does a good job in general of avoiding http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/124/167/adf.jpg
At least in their Warcraft properties.
ruby prawn
Actually the orc females look horrible
ruby prawn
I can't wait for the Zandalari
I will do anything to unlock them unless they cost money
uncut vault
Yes, thats my point, female orcs already look great to me, straight backed males will make them look better too
ruby prawn
Why did they not add the straight orcs in the latest patch along with the new races
uncut vault
didnt want to distract from the allied races probably
ruby prawn
Yeah, everyone would have rolled an orc xD
But what's the story behind it? Why were they not made straight from the beginning?
subtle flower
WoWHead mentions stuff like "Mythic Recolor Lookalike" as a set. Does that means there's ways to get those things without doing a mythic?
ruby prawn
Maybe yes, but that would be stupid. I hope they don't do that
subtle flower
None I'm after, but I was curious.
ruby prawn
Or there will be vendors for such gear just for a tmog
uncut vault
There's probably no story, just adding something that always should have been in
orcs being hunched over in the first place was dumb, only peons were ever hunched
tropic trail
@subtle flower I think that means it's a set that looks like a Tier set, but is available to everyone through non-set pieces.
hollow dock
@ruby prawn the reason the orcs had their hunch back is because of their forced growth through fel magic. They were made to look that way as heavier warriors to do more killing. Hunched backs were a sode effect of the sudden muscle gain on their upper body but no where near as much om the lower. Current generatioms of orcs shouldnt have the hunched back, the older generations should be evening out as fel fades and the Draenor orcs should never have had the hunched backs.
steel venture
@hollow dock .... Source? No, seriously. Only grunts and peons should have hunched backs. They were created out of need for the war machine. Average orcs would not have the back issues.
Especially when you have Saurfang as a blatant example now that's .. actually 100% wrong.
Since he's fel effected but still completely straight backed. That's how he's supposed to be by lore, and now its finally reflected.
hollow dock
My source is Rise of the Horde when it was described that Guldan made orcs that way though fel magic rushing their agimg
steel venture
except mag'har also have the hunch due to the model. :T
it was never supposed to be canon for all orcs to hunch
ruby prawn
But shouldn't they be straight if they had more muscle on the upper body?
steel venture
not to mention we've seen even BC red fel orcs represented in artwork and comics with straight backs.
fel mutation doesn't hunch you.
ruby prawn
Yeah, Blizzard should get their writing in check
steel venture
the model literally is hunched because during vanilla you're basically
a newbie grunt
that wouldn't have meant much
since that was the original writing.
ruby prawn
Thanks Vris for explaining though
If our orcs are grunts, then humans should be all peons as well
But why did they update thralls model only to a straight back?
In Cata?
ruby prawn
Oh, no
It's not thay
That
It's the fact that the alliance already had some special models
And they needed them to be equal
steel venture
By lore though, most orcs do actually stand straight.
And honestly, it is. They were going to use a hunched model for his Cata version, but they scrapped it and made him upright because of how dumb his robes looked on the hunched version.
ruby prawn
Can you find a link to the hunched Thrall with robes?
hollow dock
its probably an internal model as I dont remember ever seeing his model hunched over with the robes.
ruby prawn
I found a pic
uncut vault
pretty sure it was his beta model
hollow dock
Also Xan, I believe the Mag'har and all orcs have hte model not due to lore accuracy, but due to resource managment.
It was, at the time, cheaper to make orcs look familiar than make an entire new model for them at the time.
ruby prawn
How many employees does The WoW department have?
hollow dock
Doesn't matter how many they have.
ruby prawn
It does
hollow dock
What matters is the timeframe they have.
And they are always working half on the current stuff, half on the new stuff.
Its why blizzard reuses assets so very often.
ruby prawn
What about now
hollow dock
More employees just cranks it out faster, not easier to make new stuff.
ruby prawn
The new X-Pac is huge imo
hollow dock
If anything, more employees is actually worse for making new stuff as its more people all this stuff has to cycle through.
ruby prawn
Yeah... I guess you are right...
hollow dock
They did have a surge of recruitment, but that was more towards Classic than BFA this round. They did huge recruitment for Legion though so the team is probably almost filling a room in Blizz HQ.
languid yoke
yeah the female vulpera quickly got replaced with updated texture/model (and eyes!) while the male are broken for now
yeah as said, male weren't really updated yet
split valley
Afflication locks = bugged as all hell on alpha right now
selecting certain talents means it does save the talent tree
they get randomly unset , all talents doo
hollow dock
its almost like this is an alpha and need work.
polar mango
Them arms.
hollow dock
Clearly theyre the next allied race.
zinc sandal
The furries will go nuts
languid yoke
you realize the arms are like goblin arms
hollow dock
I think gnomes are the only ones that are proportionately correctly.
olive mirage
people are acting like vulpera are the first "furry" race, tauren have been there since vanilla, and worgen since cata
hollow dock
A few days ago we had a big ol' arugment about that one Sir Dude.
languid yoke
I think there were way too many arguments about that already
hollow dock
Next allied race: Anthropomorphic sharks
tender cradle
I'd pay for that :D Like their racial be faster swim speed and underwater breathing. But that would be kinda week xD
paper sequoia
Do ya guys think they'll add upright orcs at the start of the expansion? They never mentioned when they will implement them I believe
languid yoke
it's ok Vris we already know you're salty about vulpera
leaden garden
I think Vris is just salty, period
hollow dock
I exude salt.
I believe they will add in the upright orcs at the startof the expac. Its already in game for Legion so I see no reason to delay it.
steel venture
upright orcs probably will be prepatch IMO
it's just not ready yet thus not reflected in alpha.
leaden garden
I might actually play an orc when they get to be upright
solid sparrow
I still want playable ogres.
willow frost
I love vulpera, just hope they don't have gay lore
true matrix
what is "gay lore" supposed to mean
true matrix
bad habit
willow frost
aaaa
ruby prawn
There is absolutely NO reason for the Mag'har orcs to join the alliance @sullen dagger
sullen dagger
there is, in fact
saurfang stuff indicate that
anyhow it's a long LONG longshot
but well see
ruby prawn
Please explain?
sullen dagger
dim flower
#MakeTheHordeGreatAgain
sullen dagger
just that
waved together it's a reasobale fact
the video has spoiler on datamined things, be warned
true matrix
that's a hell of a tinfoil hat
sullen dagger
yep
but i f*love that tinfoil hat
and it's goping to be a blast if this happens
i'm SO going to enjoy it
anyway i know it's not certain
BUT not impossible
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
sullen dagger
the facts are there
and the shitshow it would creatw would be epic
like when in mop changed the talent system, more or less
hollow dock
Hordes always sucked.
sullen dagger
^this
dim flower
Thrall ;-;
willow frost
horde was great before green Jesus stepped down and made the worst decision ever made by him
sullen dagger
wanyway watch the video and create your own theory
hollow dock
Sucks. He's green jesus who cheats when he can't win legitimately.
tranquil steeple
We learn from the best; the opposing faction - the Alliance.
sullen dagger
putting sylvannas in charge oif the horde is a dick move
hollow dock
Pre-mop garrosh is the same as post-MOP garrosh.
willow frost
cata garrosh was gross
sullen dagger
the tauren leader would be neato aswell
dim flower
But but
hollow dock
I could never take Garrosh seriously.
dim flower
Stonetalon
sullen dagger
but not that edgy bitch
hollow dock
His head was always so feckin small
sullen dagger
muh undead
dim flower
lmao to his pauldrons
hollow dock
HIS HEAD WAS SO TINY
languid yoke
his head was tinier than his chest, shoulders, everything
willow frost
ji for warchief
languid yoke
he probably had bigger toes
hollow dock
It looked like he had a blow up suit on
sullen dagger
zappy boy for warchief
hollow dock
its zappy boi*
hollow dock
Lor'themar for warchief so the horde can finally become gayer than the alliance.
willow frost
I think the only person who would make the horde the aggressor but not fucking evil would have been sylv
sullen dagger
why?
hollow dock
Anduins the only person who'll actually fight for peace.
sullen dagger
i think saurfang would have done the thrick way better
dim flower
well yeah
dim flower
he's the only guy that's true to the original horde layout imo
hollow dock
Have you seen him just one hit a dreadlord?
ruby prawn
Actually Baine wants peace as well
sullen dagger
yeah he saw bad shit, but i thik he's way softher that he needs to be to fight aganist the horde
hollow dock
We haven't even seen him actually fight other than him actually being a human being, unsure of himself to measure up to the legend that is his father.
sullen dagger
it's easier to fight (as a priest) the "great evil" than his previous comrades
because at the end we're all l living in azeroth
ruby prawn
Saurfang took 3 arrows to the chest, while Anduin cried when he was knocked over
(it's a joke comment btw)
sullen dagger
also, agree with exosdar baine would have been great asl horde leader
hollow dock
I hate that I can't tell if we're just joking or having a legitimate character discussion of anduin
sullen dagger
but alas, we wouldnt have the spark for conflict we have with sylvannas
some of both?
i do thend to diress and say stupid shit, as a joke, but i'm seriously discussing the capabilities of anduin as a leader of the alliance
digress*
or it is egress?
hollow dock
Digress is right.
sullen dagger
ty
hollow dock
I think he has it in him, we just need to give him a chance. Again, he's going through an entire arc of becoming sure of himself because of how legendary Varian was. It's a huge act to follow and a lot of pressure to put on the shoulders of a 17 year old boy.
sullen dagger
yep, totally agree
but still think that there are alliance races that dont have enough representation for the weight they had
like dwarfs
hollow dock
I do agree on that. The three hammers should be, THREE HAMMERS. not one and a half hammers.
hollow dock
Gelbin should get some more interactions, even as a science advisor or something. Tyrande should get written properly and Velen. Well. tbh Velen can stay where he is.
sullen dagger
i hope through the expansion we can sort some kind of treaty
hollow dock
Put an end to this stupid war and let's fight the real enemy.
sullen dagger
yep
voidlords here we come
(first old gods and let azeroth wake up or recover tho)
anyway they have been hinting us with void stuff since illgonoth
the huge eye in emerald nightmare
split valley
HAHAHAHAHA. This quest NPC that accompanies you on this one quest on BfA mounts her horse by standing on top of it
hollow dock
They've been hinting at void stuff since Xala'tath.
split valley
That's not how you ride a horse!
hollow dock
Yup its an alpha.
sullen dagger
ah the priest weapon
split valley
its how pros ride horses
hollow dock
I just can't wait to actually see N'zoth.
in all his tentacly glory
Oh hey, WC3 might actually get remastered.
mint arch
MANDUIN
daring jasper
I think you will see G'huun before N'zoth
hollow dock
I mean. thats pretty obvious?
G'huun has to be dealt with and is apart of the blood troll quests.
dense plover
^
but ghuun isnt an old god
weve gone over this
they have no reason to retcon chronicles
the theory is that the blood trolls think it is an old god
but it actually isnt
jovial coral
Hmm
dense plover
its some kind of old god thing that was made by the titans and corrupted then locked away
sage tapir
oh thats going to be an interesting thing to murder
ruby prawn
How can an artificial loa be created
steel venture
Anima.
Nalak is an example of Lei Shen shaping something very similar to a wild god with his magic.
uncut vault
Ghuun is an old god tho
hollow dock
Indeed. He could be an artifical loa or old god, one the titans attempted to make thinking fighting fire with fire is a good idea. Peach and I agree that a very likely story is that he was created to devour the Old Gods, a parasite for the parasites, and it used their blood as the base. Which is how he has these old god abilities without actually being an old god.
uncut vault
System restoration in progress. Data recovered. Source of corruption is from an old god entity. Multiple entities detected nearby, blocking goal of analyzing and containing corruption in Nazmir. Entities appear to be from the Void. Drawn here from old god corruption. Request to destroy void entities. Void presence inhibiting repair of systems.
Scans indicate errors in reality surrounding nearby structure. Portals directly to the void. Current theory, corruption has old god as source. Void attracted to old god corruption. Portals must be sealed to contain entities lured here by old god corruption. Take this device. Titan Keeper Hezrel has forged it thanks to help in powering up systems. Use device to seal void portals, prevent more void entities from entering area.
Must scan interior of structure for damage and determine best course for repairs. Have limited time before old god corruption lures more forces. Inform me when you are ready to proceed with operation to restore containment.
PLACEHOLDER SCENE - Hezrel reveals G'huun being an old god, being experimented upon, and reveals blood trolls want to destroy Zuldazar in order to free G'huun. No way of fixing current containment, must protect Zuldazar. Ateena, blood troll matriarch, arrives, badly damages Hezrel, and prepares to strike.
Return to Gloom Hollow
Old god G'huun behind destruction of containment structure. Commanding blood trolls to destroy final one in location, Zuldazar. Titan Keeper Hezrel must aid in destruction of blood trolls. Cannot allow G'huun to be freed. Must leave interior of Atul'nazman. Meet Titan Keeper Hezrel outside of temple, will help return to Gloom Hollow.
steel venture
There's a lot of context that points to the fact that G'huun could be artifical though.
Blizzard said he was created.
uncut vault
He probably is, but he is an old god
hollow dock
An old god yes, but not a true one like N'zoth or C'thun.
Artifically created by the titans for some unknown reason.
glad edge
if azeroth wakes up wouldnt the planet be destroyed?
hollow dock
We dont know.
steel venture
We have no idea.
uncut vault
Not that we know of. Argus did fine (as fine as Argus can do)
hollow dock
Its still up in the air of what exactly happens to the shell once a titan wakes up.
steel venture
But given the fact we could kill Argus without destroying the planet Argus, we'll probably be fine.
hollow dock
I would argue that Argus was quite possibly severed from the planet prematurely.
steel venture
More than likely, although given that titan souls are nebulae. I believe Azeroth can emerge without destroying her shell.
glad edge
so what shattered the planet argus?
steel venture
It would probably drastically remove the amount of magic on Azeroth though when she does wake up.
The Legion destroyed Argus.
hollow dock
Sargeras getting to Argus more than likely
steel venture
And plunged it into the Nether.
uncut vault
Had to test his soul groping on Argus so he wouldnโt damage Azeroth, clearly.
hollow dock
absolutely
zinc sandal
Azeroth: โBe gentle. Itโs my first time.โ
Sargeras: โDonโt worry, I have practice.โ
meager warren
Azeroth does the hanky panky with the old gods every few expacs
true matrix
the hokey cokey
hollow dock
Why did the UT fandom get here
hollow dock
Undertale.
meager warren
cute
true matrix
what does undertale have to do with any of this?
meager warren
^
hollow dock
Soul groping. Its their version of the s word.
meager warren
Portergauge is probably an undertale fan
and, doesn't that make u an undertale fan if you got a vague reference to a vague theme?
hollow dock
Yea.
meager warren
why not then
tidal mauve
Are all of you beta testers right now?
olive mirage
nope just people reading the data mine stuff 
zinc sandal
Weโre a bunch of losers
rich apex
^
hollow dock
^
hollow dock
We're just people who dont mind spoilers and have nothing else better to do but sit here
olive mirage
somebody got an alpha invite on an account they have no characters on created like 7 years ago for RaF
the only thing on that account is 2 months of sub time for the RaF stuff
hollow dock
Yea its called 'random invites' and they mean it
hollow dock
Clearly this means they are the next allied race.
sage tapir
i honestly hope not
hollow dock
everyone but the weebs are hoping they aren't allied races.
sage tapir
I don't want fucking zootopia animals in my warcraft
olive mirage
i mean, you already have cows and wolves in your warcraft
hollow dock
Quiet you'll start a howl!
meager warren
Oh yeah, WoW is Zootopia
sage tapir
I suffer those unwillingly
meager warren
All the furries
olive mirage
this is nothing new
rich apex
Unfortunately, Zootopia didn't have fish people or I'd link that too
Or lobster people
olive mirage
CRAB PEOPLE
meager warren
yes it does. it just never honed in on them
hollow dock
We're left to assume Zootopia's society only had mammals evolve to become people.
meager warren
it's a world of animal people. the ocean is in there. why would the ocean be empty?
hollow dock
because they do have a fish market.
meager warren
^
hollow dock
Oh I dont mind the furries
meager warren
i've nothing against furries btw
hollow dock
I mind when theyre shoving their tails in my face
sage tapir
I said I don't suffer them willingly
olive mirage
just dont play on moonguard 
sage tapir
but I have more reasons to play wow than I have not to
meager warren
i want to see a Shark People race in WoW.
that'd be cool
Sharks are one of my top-10 favorite animals too ;3
hollow dock
I want to see Sethrakk become the next allied race so I may create a grand crusade against the Vulpera.
meager warren
wut
olive mirage
you dont know that questline?
hollow dock
Oh yea that was a quest wasn't it
meager warren
no
rich apex
wat
olive mirage
you help sentient raptors build a rocket, and launch it to the moon
rich apex
w a t
hollow dock
I dont remember where. But you help out hyper intelligent raptors make a rocket to the moon
no theyre normal raptors that are just hyper intelligent
meager warren
lame
olive mirage
its in Azshara
hollow dock
I'd think so
olive mirage
oh it seems so
meager warren
Azshara is probably mostly Horde focused because it centers on goblins and trolls (Both of which has neutral members, ik but eh)
meager warren
tfw
hollow dock
yea it is.
An expac of Orcs and Humans as the cover gives us more orcs and more humans?
olive mirage
but what if, draenor orcs go to the alliance, and kul tiras humans go to horde 
hollow dock
blasphemy
meager warren
if the Kul'Tirans are alliance counterpart to Dorcs, how is the Alliance getting Dorcs?
meager warren
wat
hollow dock
[7:08 PM] SirSlayerDude: but what if, draenor orcs go to the alliance, and kul tiras humans go to horde :rooW:
sage tapir
kul tiras is one of the greatest human kingdoms
meager warren
nooo, keep humans out of the Horde.
Filthy hoomans
hollow dock
keep ur filthy orcs out of our already filthy alliance
sage tapir
them going horde would be the same as draenor orcs going alliance
pissing on the very idea of warcraft
meager warren
hey, the Mag'har aren't filthy.
They're just... complicated
hollow dock
I dont see how.
theyre at war
its still orcs vs humans
what exactly is being pissed on?
tropic trail
draenor orcs aren't going alliance, but saurfang might
meager warren
Saurfang in Stormwind would be trippy af
hollow dock
How again?