thats not a subgroup
#beta-ptr-spoilers
meager warren
where were the zandalari trolls that we're eventually going to play as? If they were us, they're obviously powerful but they weren't significant enough to make a name for themselves. Gee, i wonder why
dense plover
uh
doesnt matter
culturally they have been taught about this war
so they have no reason to like the pandaren
jovial coral
Cinematics of that would be dope
meager warren
^
odd aspen
nah
Rastakhan's Zandalari are not the ones who tried to take over Pandaria, Prophet Zul is the one who tried to.
also technically every Pandaren should hate the Orcs for what Garrosh did to the Vale
and orcs wouldnt be monks xd
dense plover
no
thats in pandaria
the troll wars were before that
12k years ago
Zul and Rastakhan werent leaders yet (i think)
odd aspen
they were
meager warren
12k years ago is a long time.
Why would the zandalari trolls give it much thought on deciding whether to become monks?
meager warren
so, they're grouchy over losing a war 12000 years ago, a war in which most of them (i assume, don't know how long trolls live), didn't participate?
jade basalt
A few hundred years.
meager warren
ah
jade basalt
But they visibly are still mad about it, or at least recently about not getting the lands they were promised (haven't followed the conversation, just answering your question)
meager warren
so, no. most didn't participate in the war then
jade basalt
Nope.
odd aspen
a tribe doesnt represent a race
hollow dock
Proud people.
The zandalari tribe kinda does represent most of their people at this point
the only people they dont represent are the Darkspear
meager warren
in every case of any races fitting any description, there's always exceptions.
Which is why, generalizing anything about a race is racist
hollow dock
are you saying the human race makes generalizations about other races?
meager warren
in WoW, yes
jovial coral
Troll lives matter
polar mango
hollow dock
Racist.
meager warren
that coming from you?
lol
tranquil steeple
What's a troll's favorite day?
jade basalt
hollow dock
Im not saying I'm not racist am I?
tired otter
Elven superiority?
hollow dock
Elven superiority. All the other races are inferior.
tired otter
Exactly
Meant to serve the elves
Finally some one who knows what’s the real deal
No really I only play elves and dranei tbh
hollow dock
I don't but I like to play the part in discord to mess with people
tired otter
Lol
It’s fun
To trigger ppl sometimes
I bet after bfa we will be working together again prolly
meager warren
Vris, u remind me of the Altmer from Skyrim
hollow dock
No idea who that is
hollow dock
I haven't actually played Skyrim. :v Don't like the Elder Scrolls series. at all really.
meager warren
it's ok with mods
odd aspen
Zandalari monks confirmed
meager warren
same.
Even tho i haven't played ESO, i feel like it's probably not worth it because... it's online and It's not developed by Bethesda
hollow dock
An elder scrolls game not developed by bethesda? horrible. simply horrible.
meager warren
hey, what can i say. i'm a bethesda fan
tulip sun
ESO is amazing
willow frost
^
balmy heart
ESO has greatly improved since beta (& launch)
pine bluff
Has anybody cracked the Expac any further? I wanna see the cool Pirate Mogs for Rogues... because I HATE the Mage Tower Challenge right now.
dense plover
There isn’t anymore
We need a new patch for new content
They have to add more stuff before we can find more stuff
subtle flower
I just want them to add the warfront alliance plate already. >____>
cinder knoll
@subtle flower if it will really have that awesome cloak as it had on some images, wow...
subtle flower
omg I can't wait for bfa ._. or the next big pre-patch if that's the one with the new wpvp system, I just want it here already so these massive wastes of oxygen can't kill me.
hollow dock
I can happily wait for it.
subtle flower
Oh?
hollow dock
Idd. I want nothing rushed out to me. I dont want another Pandaria or Warlords launch. Or another Warlords or Cata expac.
subtle flower
True, that's a good point. Hopefully that this'll be a pre-patch thing then.
hollow dock
It could, but I think the world changing systems will be implemented for BFAs launch.
subtle flower
I just want these douchebags not to be able to treat me as their plaything.
strange falcon
cata wasnt as bad as warlords,and i played cata but not warlords
also i think pandaria doesnt get enough praise,while it wasnt the best it's still better than wod and cata xd
hollow dock
Cata got pretty bad real quick. Maybe not from a casual raiders perspective, but coming off the heels of WotLK it was a huge let down to see everything getting slashed by 20-25% and then Dragon Soul happened with the LFR stuff.
Pandarias launch was horrible. Just flat out unplayable like warlords was for its first few months. Warlords had the excuse of new tech being used on the servers.
strange falcon
you're correct i was a casual raider back in cata :p
mint arch
hollow dock
I dont see avatars. I use the IRC mode of Discord.
but uh. gets out sheet of paper ur an illegal weeb, stop bein a weeb ya weeb. tosses paper to the side.
languid yoke
uwu
merry briar
which is best/ which should i roll in bfa?
guardian druid : 
shadow/disc priest: 
survival hunter: 
react or respond with what you want
think*
lol
hollow dock
Personally I think whichever fits your playstyle the most. Or just play all four.
odd aspen
servers merging is what I wanna hear
subtle flower
You think they're gonna do a merge?
strange falcon
@merry briar remember that you can only get steroidbear in legion,once legion's over,you're going to be a normal bear pleb like everyone else
cinder knoll
I think I missed the start, what you want to solve with server merge?
subtle flower
They're already doing a similar connecting thing.
There is no start, they just said they want a server merge.
cinder knoll
oh... but thats not a general thing, they usually merge small realms
odd aspen
Mmm still too many dead ones
cinder knoll
just hope you wont get merged to Drak'thul 😄
daring jasper
I think they should really merge low pop realms, it's a waste of resources
odd aspen
The italians/french/spanish ones are fukin dead
They dont even reach Ravencrest+TarrenMill pop all combined
They should just merge all the non-english ones into one only just like the portuguese
daring jasper
I'm in Aggra, but I don't mind playing in a international realm
odd aspen
I've been playing on Ravencrest/Sylvanas/TwistingNether since wod cause my native languages server barely reach 3k pop during raid days
dark current
RPPvP (EU) servers here. Used due to the unhealthy number of alts I have. RP is dead. PvP is dying.
hollow dock
RP is far from dead.
hollow dock
Apparently.
uncut vault
RP servers probably have more community than any other server
willow frost
^
hollow dock
Indeed they do. Sure there are the usual trolls and such, but it goes to the extent, on some of them, that horde and alliance players actually get along.
wind rune
yep yep! I can agree with that completely... specially after last night XD .... was flagged over at Black Rook Hold due to the FFA world quest and shortly after I ran out of the arena (evil geared players showed up and I took no chances) ... like 15 horde players flew in ... a couple of the DH stopped by me and started talking to me....
I can't remember what server but it was one of the US RP servers
hollow dock
Ye. happens all over. On my server that happened and we organized a fight club through DHs and Pandas carrying over the language barrier.
wind rune
HAHA
hollow dock
It was pretty fun to see and be apart of.
wind rune
that sounds awesome ^_^ .... I wish the language thing was more of a known feature in the game... it's definitely awesome
hollow dock
It props up when Horde and Alliance have to clash. It happened during the Kosumoth uncovering for the orbs.
wind rune
one of the DH stayed after the others left and we were talking about random stuff while watching other people show up and try to find the rogue that was hiding in the ring
oh?
hollow dock
ye. some horde were trying to make things difficult so some DHs started tallking demonic and then passed around for what was happening with the orbs.
wind rune
oh that's freaking awesome
zinc sandal
Well, I just unlocked all 4 allied races. I'm proud of myself.
wind rune
lucky!
I probably could unlock them easier with my other DH.... but lazy and better geared with my new one XD
zinc sandal
I also got all three Warlock mounts today 😄
wind rune
3??
zinc sandal
Yeah
You only get 1 from the quest. Then the second one from an achievement, and the third from a rare on the Broken Shore.
Same model, different colors.
wind rune
oh wow
leaden garden
Anyone know anything about Zandalari Paladins yet? Are we really not getting them? Q_Q
zinc sandal
We're apparently not.
uncut vault
As of now its a no, but the class combos on the alpha arent final or finished.
leaden garden
Well, keeping my fingers crossed I guess
ocean tulip
can someone buy me bfa so i can level void elf 
jovial coral
Spoiler: no
hollow dock
begging is just as illegal as weebism!
zinc sandal
Highmountain Tauren probably have the best unlock scenario
sage tapir
lightforged have the best one imo
I used to hate them as a race but tpaartos changed my opinion
zinc sandal
For me, it's Highmountain > Lightforged = Void Elf > Nightborne
sage tapir
the nightborne one is only redeemed by lorthemar's dialogue
hollow dock
Void elf, Lightforged. That's its. the rest are garbage. <3
odd aspen
I quit ally because of this void elf garbage
hollow dock
Yet you want their progenitors, the blood elves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mSI6upU_V0 a very interesting look to WoW's tech and art upgrades.
leaden garden
Blood Elves at least make sense. At the end of the Velf scenario there's maybe 15-20 of them still alive, and there were only a handful who followed Umbric anyways
uncut vault
none of the void elves died in the scenario. The bubbles they were in are what turned them into void elves
leaden garden
We see that they're fighting void creatures as soon as the box opens, theyn we're teleported to where a few are being kept prisoner. Hard to believe some of them didn't die
And even if they all survived, there's still only a handful who followed Umbric in general.
uncut vault
I mean, some to the creatures, sure. But they made a point of more elves joining them after the scenario
subtle flower
I love Jaina's new outfit.
leaden garden
Which again, seems weak. That the Sin'dorei, after banishing Umbric's followers, seeing his transformation would go "ooh let's go get mutated by the void and abandon the Horde with the outcast!"
uncut vault
almost like it shows that not all of a population holds the exact same beliefs
leaden garden
shrug in comparison to the other starter/intro scenarios it was my least favorite IMO
subtle flower
Aren't the Void Elves Alliance because their leader is?
Isn't that how it goes in this game?
Races automatically just join the faction their leader does?
leaden garden
Umbric, yes he went Alliance because the Horde likely wouldn't allow them to return
Lorthemar definitely wouldn't after the shenanigans with Alleria at the Sunwell
hollow dock
there's also the idea that some of the high elves that are in the alliance turn void as well by choice.
Also
uncut vault
From how I see it, and from the dialogue with the wayfarers, the elves that willingly joined the void elves did it because they wanted power.
hollow dock
don't take whats shown in game for the actual size in lore
leaden garden
But even Alleria says "Umbric and a handful of his followers"
hollow dock
'handful' just means not a lot. A handful of the elven population was left after Arthas cleansed their lands
leaden garden
And from the conversation with whats-his-face at the Sunwell, it was implied that Umbric didn't have a bunch with him when banished
hollow dock
Yet thats still hundreds of thousands
leaden garden
True, Blizz retcons whatever they want
cloud solstice
Portergauge!
hollow dock
Not as of recent but. alright.
cloud solstice
And yes. Supposedly the sin'dorei population is like, a very small percent of the actual populatin
hollow dock
A handful in any writing means a small portion of a whole. :v A handful of followers can still mean thousands of elves. Clearly you can't show that in game because ya know. Engine can't show that much for a small scenario.
cloud solstice
Haha
Would lag pretty terribly
Swaths of Velves just flooding the gates of undercity Zerg style
I can picture that
hollow dock
We see just how horrible the current engine shows during things like Running of the Gnomes and such
leaden garden
I might just be being picky, but I feel there's other words that could have portrayed that better. But oh well
hollow dock
Yes the writing can always be better in WoW
leaden garden
Hehe
hollow dock
But, you still gotta give them a few breaks. :v Theyre not here to write up Tolkien works, just give us a fun story with enough open interpretation for us to have our fun with.
leaden garden
Fair enough. I'm going to maintain that I think their story was the weakest of the 4, though lol
hollow dock
that's fair.
leaden garden
Lightforged was fun to see, but I think that the Nightborne had the best, which pains me to say
sullen dagger
T'partos disagree
hollow dock
I accept it a bit more because of my time within the Lore and RP community. A lot of the time, as Blood/High elves are the most popular, its a common occurance to see one absorb to much magical juice and transform.
sullen dagger
the best allied race intro imho is the velf one
sullen dagger
kinda like leeroy?
hollow dock
I just liked the Lightforged cuz explanation..
uncut vault
Eh, I think Nightborne was the worst, not because of any politics stuff, just because of the four, the conflict was pretty generic. Highmountain had a massive questline learning about the threat before facing it, void elf had us learning about umbric, lightforged had us learning about lightforging and tpaartos, but Nightbornes was kind of just an "oops, baddie, kill it and show how cool we are."
leaden garden
The Nightborne actually had a fleshed out reason for going Horde though
uncut vault
Not the race itself, just the scenario
leaden garden
And seeing Lorthemar deliberately schedule Thalyssra and Alleria's meetings so he could chew out Alleria in front of the Nightborne was hilarious
uncut vault
I think the race's reasons are alright (thalyssra and liadrin nonsense aside), the induction scenario was just meh
hollow dock
TBH I kinda wish they did allied races differently. Some stay neutral while the rest go pick a side.
uncut vault
Alleria and Rommath were the best parts of it
sullen dagger
i think alleria is going to be a major force in the next xpac
hollow dock
Oh really?
I dont think so
the Void elf leader that absorbed a naaru is just gonna sit in the side lines
leaden garden
Also, Tyrande was a huge bitch to them lol she treated them like garbage despite clear efforts to change things for the better. It made sense that given that reaction and the welcoming given to them by the Sin'dorei their choice was clear
Also, it's possible she could get benched. Vol'jin did
hollow dock
10k years of festering betrayl does that to ya
uncut vault
She was a bitch and had full reason to be
sullen dagger
and i pray to god she's going to spank so hard her sister
leaden garden
Shit, Vol'jin's been on the bench forever
sullen dagger
it gonna be heard from outland even
uncut vault
I would have been more mad if she DID trust thalyssra and welcome her
hollow dock
^
Like. I dont understand why people think long living races forgive transgressions. The time passing with no resolution actually makes it worse
sullen dagger
^this
one thing tho
i saw a video from evitel and co
theorizing about draenor orcs coming to the alliance
uncut vault
I still hold to the opinion that thalyssras reasoning would have been 100% more sound if she used like
sullen dagger
and that could be
uncut vault
any quote from tyrande other than the one she did
leaden garden
Because as you get older you stop holding grudges as easily/at all. Maturing even over the course of a decade or two or 3 creates experience that shows holding a grudge is almost pointless. Put that in the scope of 10,000 years and its hard to see
hollow dock
We do yea. but in 10k years after only knowing one thing: Your family, your home turned its back on you when you needed it most.
uncut vault
you're implying she spent all 10k years maturing
sullen dagger
brooding*
hollow dock
Do you really just let that go after ten thousand years?
and then
they have the gall to ask for your help
because its your home and family
uncut vault
things are a bit different when you take petty grudges and put them to world ending conflicts
leaden garden
I think 10 years ago someone was a huge dick to me and caused me a lot of suffering and now I can have a conversation with them without being angry at them because I moved on and so has the world
sullen dagger
dude this was quite over being a dick
leaden garden
So yeah, her still being salty 10k years later is hard to believe. That's a LOT of time
I know, I'm just giving an example
sullen dagger
like a huge treason
uncut vault
theres a difference between being a dick, and helping a world destroying faction then cutting the rest of the world off for thousands of years, then expecting happy help
hollow dock
^
sullen dagger
+1
leaden garden
Again, i know I under-shot the example but small-scope vs. big-scope, 10k is a LOT of time. More than most people can probably even really fathom
Personal opinion, it's hard for me to grasp and relate to that's all
hollow dock
Like with Illidan, he was a little more than just a dick. He joined the legion, helped Azshara, then drank from the well and started to become a demon itself. He turned his back on Tyrande and Malfurion. He never regretted doing it either.
sullen dagger
he's cool af tho
hollow dock
He really isnt. He's a slimeball that evades any and all consequence while forcing everyone else to sacrifice for him.
uncut vault
I mean, I doubt she ever really thought about suramar in those 10k years. Assuming her memory stretches all 10k years, it would have been her suddenly finding her home again after that long, and finding the traitors she assumed had died perfectly alive, and suddenly asking her for help
Whats her reason for helping them?
hollow dock
She does so at the alliances bidding. If it were purely up to her, she wouldn't have lended a hand at all I bet.
uncut vault
Thalyssra, from what she knows, served two women who have joined the Legion's cause, shut herself off from the world when it needed her, and is suddenly asking for help. Why would she trust or happily help that?
leaden garden
Illidan: You don't sacrifice enough! You don't go far enough!
X'era: Here, have the mother of all powerups!
Illidan: Nuuuuuu mi scarz
hollow dock
"Here, have the mother of all power ups and become our servant and weapon"
"No fuck you I aint sacrificing shit"
sullen dagger
well, at the end he died
leaden garden
I don't get where people are saying "become our servant" no part of what she said implied serviturde
hollow dock
we dont even know if he did
sullen dagger
with that explosion...
leaden garden
She offered healing and Lightforging and he threw a tantrum
hollow dock
Because of what we were shown prior with what Illidan says to Velen; Faith blinds.
sullen dagger
anyway there's something that doesent click with that
hollow dock
Couple that with the Audio drama and what Locus Walker shows
And then you toss in the fact that Lorthraxion certainly was forced into his Lightforging
sullen dagger
fact 1 -> demons are born in the void, near the void (or in)
which, inherently, isnt evil per se
hollow dock
It's pretty clear the Light wants obedient servants that follow it.
uncut vault
I more took it as Illidan not wanting to be chained to some prophecy
sullen dagger
fact 2-> illidan drank from the well and started to become a demon
hollow dock
It wants to consume everything and bathe itin light. Much like how the void wants to consume everything and bathe it in shadow.
leaden garden
We don't know what led to Lothraxion's lightforging, we barely know anything about him period
sullen dagger
why or how?
uncut vault
He kind of warped himself into the mentality that the only thing he needed was the Legion's end. Xe'ra clearly wanted him for more than that.
hollow dock
Again told through the same audio drama. We're shown a very different look into it. With Turalyon being OK that Illidan killed Xe'ra, his lights flaring up with Gold, there's subtle little hints that I take for a form of indoctrination through the Light. It wants you to be obedient and follow its every word.
jade basalt
Looks like MrGM won't get alpha ever. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/284589334135570432/415162224068395018/image.png
uncut vault
Oof.
hollow dock
Well hey
leaden garden
Well if you believe that Xe'ra's presence empowered the Lightforged as it seems to do, then his eyes flaring upon her being resurrected makes sense and doesn't really lend itself to any kind of brain washing. Also, what audio/different look? I'd very much like to see this other look
hollow dock
what do you expect showing off private servers :v
The audio drama that blizzard released with 7.3.
sullen dagger
?
hollow dock
Detailing what Turalyon and Alleria have been up to. Locus Walker and Alleria's history, Xe'ra's vindictiveness, a bit of a shine into Lorthraxion's background
leaden garden
Any chance there's a readable version? I'm at work, sadly
sullen dagger
+1
sullen dagger
that's neato
leaden garden
Gonna read this and will come back with a more informed opinion on the subject
hollow dock
We discussed this in depth in the PTR spoilers chat.
leaden garden
When everythign happened I saw Xe'ra as a parent, being one myself. She seemed ot be offering healing for all the pain and suffering and, again, the mother of all powerups, but because it wasn't how Illidan WANTED to do it, and everything has to be his way, he threw a tantrum. Xe'ra's light tethers were less manacles of oppression and more a parent reaching out saying "Stop fighting me ya little shit, I'm trying to change your diaper"
And if he hadn't been throwing a tantrum he might've gone "Oh wait, yeah this does feel better, thanks" instead of judging everyone around him.
jade basalt
A bit of both.
You're mostly right, but her focing this onto him without his consent and the prophecy that had to be fulfilled this way in her eyes, that's not okay.
leaden garden
Depends on your point of view and how you're viewing Xe'ra. Again, from the parent angle, he's angry because he's in pain and is trying to do things his way and no one else. She's trying to heal him and give him the means to do what he wants but he only sees his own pain.
Again, I correlate this to the diaper thing. Toddler is angry because his bum is poopy, might have a rash, feels uncomfortable for a myriad of reasons and doesn't calm down until the diaper is changed and hit butt is cleaned/wiped at which point he goes "oh wait, yeah that's better thanks." lol
Only toddler doesn't have eyebeams on steroids to fight back with
Sure from illidan's perspective it's just another super-power offering power in one hand and a bitch slap in the other
jade basalt
Except nobody said Illidan had a problem. You're comparing this to a child not wanting to be taken care of but nobody except Xe'ra thought he needed to be fixed. Only in her eyes was he flawed.
hollow dock
She doesn't care about what you feel or if its actually good for you
If its in her path to do it
she does it.
leaden garden
Oh I think in a lot of people's eyes he was flawed. Even before Xe'ra I thought he was whiny and hypocritical
jade basalt
Xe'ra wasn't fixing his whiny-ness.
She was changing him into something she preferred.
The way it had to be, for her.
Without his consent.
hollow dock
Into something she prophesized he'd become. It was her path to do it.
leaden garden
Or the way it might've benefited everyone, including Illidan. We won't know now
hollow dock
So she did it, and he saying no he didn't want it didn't matter to her. He would become Lightforged if he wanted it or not.
You'll see what we're talking about when you read the ending to that audio drama
leaden garden
Noted^
jade basalt
I'm not saying Xe'ra can't be compared to a mother figure, don't misunderstand me. She did have that sort of relationship with Turalyon to some extent, and she is after all called the Mother of Light. But what she was doing to Illidan wasn't okay. She made her own prophecy and wanted to fulfill it, forcefully. She may have been right, or not. But she was still forcing this onto Illidan without his consent. And the cinematic was definitely giving a creepy vibe with the echos, her size "increasing" and "engulfing" him, and her robotic, emotion-less voice. The devs themselves said that the goal with Xe'ra was to show that even the naaru, even the Light, could be that way. Xe'ra certainly had good intentions, but what she may consider good might not be good for us, from our point of view.
hollow dock
A thing you have to remember Benj is that the Light and Void are cosmic forces. They dont give a rats ass about you or I in that world. Everything is a means to beat the other.
Blizz loves playing with this idea that Light and Dark don't mean good and evil.
jade basalt
Imagine a demon forcefully corrupting you because it believes it's best for you, or for others. Why would that not be okay but what Xe'ra did is ?
hollow dock
WoD was a perfect example where the shadow users, the Arakkoa, were the good guys against the Adherents, the Light users.
leaden garden
Which I personally find boring. It's been a cliche for over a decade now, especially in Hollywood and shows like Supernatural, where "Angels" and things like them are just dicks with holy powers vs. dicks with hell powers.
jade basalt
Though the naaru are, in majority at least, good-aligned. Xe'ra is the only "exception" so far (as in the good she wants to do might not really be good for us individually), but she definitely sets a precedent.
leaden garden
Also, Mymind: as far as that goes there is a difference between what the demon is trying to do and what a naaru is trying to do.
hollow dock
blizz has been doing it just as long. Take a look at Diablo.
Id say blizz actually did it first before Supernatural did :v
leaden garden
When the shadow/void/demons take over things they corrupt, warp, mutate, and destroy
hollow dock
So does the Light
leaden garden
Even in Blizzard Lore, the light illumines, heals, and empowers
jade basalt
there is a difference between what the demon is trying to do and what a naaru is trying to do
Is there ? Forcefully infusing magic into someone ? Warping them with energy ? Changing them ? Without consent ?
hollow dock
So does the shadow Benj.
Light and Shadow are two sides of the same coin in the universe.
gilded drum
The shadow can heal and empower just as much as the light
leaden garden
Where is shadow magic used to heal, illumine, and create?
gilded drum
And the light can harm and corrupt just as much as the shadow.
hollow dock
Shadow priests. Discipline priests.
Theres even a spell called 'Shadow Mend'
it's not the heavenly creatures the Light makes, but it still mimics everything the Light does. Theyre equals in every sense.
gilded drum
Discipline Priests and Ret Paladins are the ‘shining light’ for how the light can be used for harm.
jade basalt
Though the comparison here was with a Demon, and Fel can definitely heal and empower. But you consider that doing it with the Light is okay but with other types of magic it isn't. That sounds biased. Plus the vision of the future Illidan received in the novel was basically the same thing : he had angel wings, a halo of Light, and radiated with Holy magic. So the Light does "change" and "transform". And so Xe'ra forcefully doing that to him is not more okay than a demon doing that to someone else.
hollow dock
In that same audio drama, Alleria peers to see a world infused with the Light. It was a mutated world much like Void worlds we've seen.
But because of our predisposition to think Light=Good we accept one but not the other.
jade basalt
Though to be fair Vris that vision was a lie from the Void. But yea.
hollow dock
We dont actually know if that's true. As again, the void sees everything as a possible truth.
jade basalt
It was explicitly called a lie, yea.
gilded drum
🍿
hollow dock
Was it? Huh.
jade basalt
[vision of the Light-crystallized mountains and stuff]
"Lies," she whispered. "These are all lies."
"Sear that into your heart," the Locus-Walker said. "Know that, and never forget it."
And then
As she swam in the Shadow, all these visions seemed true. At first.
Slowly she began to see the difference between the Shadow's memories… the Shadow's plans… and the
Shadow's desires. And from that…
[...] The lies of the Void were strong, intoxicating, but they quickly collapsed.
uncut vault
It's called a lie before saying that both the visions of the light and the visions of the void are wrong.
locus walkers point was to say that both sides are wrong in their extremes
jade basalt
I copy pasted the stuff in order.
uncut vault
you cut out locus walkers lines between those two
jade basalt
Locus also explains that neither viewpoint is true, yes. He's making his case, not contradicting himself.
uncut vault
"You have known the Shadow as nothing but horrors. The
Shadow sees the Light in the same way. Neither viewpoint is true. Neither is wrong."
thats the most important part
jade basalt
Alleria says "lies, these are lies" and Locus responds wtih "yea, never forget that. Also neither viewpoint is true and blabla". There is no contradiction here.
He's just adding to his point.
hollow dock
Neither is true, but neither is wrong.
uncut vault
But his point isnt that the void is all lies. The point is that theyre just point of views.
hollow dock
That's what I took from it.
jade basalt
You're mixing everything up. He says the visions she received were lies. That's fact. The viewpoint thing concerns this sentence "You have known the Shadow as nothing but horrors. The Shadow sees the Light in the same way." Not the fact that the visions were lies.
The visions were lies, and neither side is right or wrong about the other being horrors.
hollow dock
and his talks before when he said that the Light sees only one truth but the void sees everything as a possible truth?
jade basalt
In order :
- The visions you got were lies. Don't forget that.
- By the way, the Shadow considers the Light as horrors, but the Light also considers Shadow as horrors. Neither is right, neither is wrong.
@hollow dock That comes after the 2 points I highlighted here. "The Light seeks one path and shuns all others as lies. The Shadow seeks every possible path and sees them all as truth."
And then a few lines later :
As she swam in the Shadow, all these visions seemed true. At first. Slowly she began to see the difference between the Shadow's memories… the Shadow's plans… and the Shadow's desires. And from that…
So they are still lies. There is no contradiction. The visions she got were lies.
uncut vault
I interpreted that very different
jade basalt
And among all of that, she saw countless events that would never happen. The lies of the Void were strong, intoxicating, but they quickly collapsed.
hollow dock
Same. :v
I saw it more as they seek out every possible path, meaning all the branching timelines we have.
Every possible event that could happen is shown to us
Its what drives us insane
uncut vault
the way I see it, its neither a lie or a truth. Thats the point of his last line, the void sees it as truth, the light sees it as a lie. Neither are right or wrong right now because the future isnt here yet
hollow dock
Alleria believes it to be a lie because she doesn't believe she could do any of those things
that's what I got from it
jade basalt
There is no interpretation here, it literally states so.
"Lies," she whispered. "These are all lies."
"Sear that into your heart," the Locus-Walker said. "Know that, and never forget it."
and
"all these visions seemed true. At first. Slowly she began to see the difference between the Shadow's memories… the Shadow's plans… and the Shadow's desires"
and
"And among all of that, she saw countless events that would never happen. The lies of the Void were strong, intoxicating, but they quickly collapsed."
It's all lies, until she starts discerning between them.
hollow dock
Well hey. No opinions or interpretations can ever be done.
jade basalt
No.
- Alleria calls them lies
- Locus confirms they are lies, and that she should not forget it
- the narrator itself states "Slowly she began to see the difference between the Shadow's memories… the Shadow's plans… and the Shadow's desires" and "she saw countless events that would never happen. The lies of the Void were strong, intoxicating, but they quickly collapsed."
jade basalt
It's not my way, it's the literal story that calls them all lies and you saying no they aren't lies.
uncut vault
The story is also saying that its a point of view
thats kinda the whole point of the light vs void story lately
perspective
jade basalt
the narrator itself states "Slowly she began to see the difference between the Shadow's memories… the Shadow's plans… and the Shadow's desires" and "she saw countless events that would never happen. The lies of the Void were strong, intoxicating, but they quickly collapsed."
The entire point is that you can't just rely on the Shadow, or on the Light, to get the truth. You gotta use both.
uncut vault
thats called a limited third person PoV
leaden garden
Speaking from a writer's perspective, this is all written in 3rd person limited, especially the scene with Alleria and Locus Walker. As such, the narration is going to be more focused towards what she interprets vs. the actual truth of the cosmos
hollow dock
^ that's what I got from it
leaden garden
Were it 3rd person omniscient, you'd be more correct, Quiet
jade basalt
So when Alleria says it's lies, it's not lies. When Locus too says it's lies, it's not lies. But yet you're still clinging to Locus' other statement. You're accepting one but not the other.
hollow dock
We're accepting that they PRECIEVE IT as lies.
If you were told that in a timeline you'd kill your own kid, would you call it a lie?
leaden garden
Also, Locus never specifically says "yes they are lies." He says "sear that into your heart and know it always. The shadow seeks every path as truth"
hollow dock
He tells her, again as Im reading it, to solidify who you are in the torrent of messages.
Its how people go insane/lose themselves.
uncut vault
I kinda just saw it as "seeing the voids whispers as all lies is how you resist giving in"
leaden garden
^
Also, in regards to the point of view I still don't see the maliciousness of Xe'ra. Give me a moment to type it all out
jade basalt
Read again Benju. Alleria says "it's lies" and Locus adds "Sear that into your heart," the Locus-Walker said. "Know that, and never forget it."
This literally means "yes". If you say "so this is chicken" and I say "Sear that into your heart, know that, and never forget it." it doesn't mean "no it's not chicken", it means "yes it is chicken."
hollow dock
We didn't say she was Malicious. I think. That wasn't my intention. My intention is to show that Xe'ra doesn't care for Illidan. She only cares about her path.
Which is shown off in the end of this audio drama
uncut vault
cause the void is bound to have at least one truth. If it's all lies, Locus Walker lied to Alleria, meaning anything he says is in question
jade basalt
No Locus didn't lie to Alleria. I think I'm done with this discussion.
hollow dock
We're the ones just speaking form a different perspective and that we're wrong for reading between the lines.
jade basalt
Alleria says it's lies, Locus says it's lies. So I'm going to stick with what these experts in Void know rather you saying that no they weren't lies. All the visions she received were lies. " she saw countless events that would never happen. The lies of the Void werestrong, intoxicating, but they quickly collapsed. "
But the Shadow messed up when it showed her vision of her killing her own son, because that triggered Alleria. She understood it was all lies, and rejected it. That's when "she could feel the Shadow's confusion. It did not understand the bonds between mortals. It did not understand that there were some things that could not be corrupted." The Shadow was trying to corrupt her and make her insane with all these false visions, but it failed at that point, and got confused.
hollow dock
Alleria doesn't know shite. Locus walker told Alleria to keep that in mind as she shifts through them to make sure not to lose herself like so many in the past have.
uncut vault
I think the point is that theyre not particularily lies. They're possibilities. In some distant timeline, the visions she say could happen. Alleria even admits it.
jade basalt
Again, I prefer to stick with what the story states rather than what you get from reading between the lines.
hollow dock
that's fine. We're not wrong and you're not wrong either.
leaden garden
So being that it is 3rd limited, we're seeing this in Turalyon's perspective. At the time Xe'ra shows up, he's afraid for Alleria, he's a little traumatized from nearly dying, and is disoriented from her transformation and new ability. Primarily, he is scared FOR Alleria, which presents itself as "A great and terrible presence" as well as when he opens his heart to her and her "Merciless regard examined his soul." The harsh adjectives show HIS fear for his lover, not necessarily the actual being before them.
At the same time, I also still see the parent angle. The shadow/void is a thing that perverts, destroys, corrupts, and enslaves most. Even Locus shows Alleria that it lies, twists, and warps to slither it's way into the minds of others to control and subjugate them. Xe'ra, barely knowing Alleria, but seeing her "corrupted" (her perspective) by the void sees one thing: a spy, an agent of the void who, despite what her intentions may be, risks succumbing to the void/shadow and causing severe damage to her agents and her army. Someone who has tremendous power, but in a field that is known across the cosmos for causing devastation and destruction. The kind that puts even the Legion to shame. Her reaction, again speaking from the parent angle, is that of telling her kids to "stop hanging out with the kid who snorts cocaine I don't want any of you getting addicted to that shit and ruining your lives" and bans the kid from coming to her house.
I see more what you're talking about, however, and I do think you're right in Blizzard's intent with all of this. Continuing the cliche of "Even the 'light' can be ebil"
hollow dock
Light does the same thing :v
leaden garden
I don't have speakers atm
jade basalt
@uncut vault "the visions she say could happen. Alleria even admits it."
The short story disagrees.
she saw countless events that would never happen. The lies of the Void were strong, intoxicating, but they quickly collapsed.
Perhaps one day she would fall to madness. Perhaps one day she would betray her allies. She was capable of it. But she would never, not in any possibility, not in any circumstance, harm her son. She would never lift a finger against Arator. Even if he killed her for what she had become, she would accept it gladly. The weight of that truth kept her afloat.
hollow dock
Again to her they'd never happen
uncut vault
"Perhaps one day she would fall to madness. Perhaps one day she would betray her allies. She was capable of it."
hollow dock
because what fucked up parent sees themselves killing their children and saying 'Yea I could do that'
jade basalt
Vris you're reading out of context. My answer was to Porter who said Alleria admits they could happen, when it explicitly states she " would never, not in any possibility, not in any circumstance" harm her son
hollow dock
Yes because that's what a mother says about a child they love
jade basalt
Yes, so Alleria does not admit it could happen as Porter said.
uncut vault
"And she could feel the Shadow's confusion. It did not
understand the bonds between mortals. It did not understand that there were some things that could
not be corrupted." This is the line that made me believe that theyre possibilities. THe void is showing her everything that could happen. Because they could. But in allerias heart and mind, they wont. because this is from the perspective of Alleria
hollow dock
In countless timelines however, they CAN happen. It showed her every possible outcome.
She knows that SHE in that spatial moment, would never do that. That' show she stays sane
jade basalt
The Void is bombarding her with lies, it repeatedly states so. Until it messed up by suggesting she would kill her own son, and that triggered Alleria who saw their lies, and that confused the Void.
uncut vault
SHE repeatedly states so. Because again, we're reading this from Alleria's mind
hollow dock
Yes because SHE knows that SHE, in that specific moment, would never do it. But that doesn't mean the vision itself is a lie, just that its a lie that this Alleria would ever do that.
jade basalt
She, and Locus.
hollow dock
It is my interpretation. thank you for admitting it
jade basalt
But that doesn't mean the vision itself is a lie, just that its a lie that this Alleria would ever do that.
I'm not sure there is a distinction between what you said here. If it's a lie that she would do that then the vision is a lie.
uncut vault
Alleria's state of mind as of the audio drama wouldnt kill Arator
hollow dock
Because Quiet if 2 allerias exist
uncut vault
that doesnt speak for Alleria when shes fully void corrupted
hollow dock
one is evil, one isn't
and one does kill their child and the other does it
its a lie to one, but not the other
Timelines.
jade basalt
Wait why are you bringing alternate timelines into this ?
hollow dock
I said at the very start
uncut vault
cause thats what the void sees. Every possibility as a truth, because somehow, somewhere, it is.
Especially since the void exists outside of time
hollow dock
"the void sees EVERY PATH as a possible truth" I take that as the void seeing all possible timelines at once. Peering everywhere and showing you every single possibility that exists.
jade basalt
That's a reach though.
hollow dock
Its what me and Port, and a number of others, are interpreting.
As we know alternate timelines exist and we know that places like the Nether and possibly the void interact with all of them.
jade basalt
But yea this is getting too deep into headcanons/theories so I'm off.
uncut vault
I mean, your perspective is as much a theory as ours. Taking certain facts and interpreting them as most important
jade basalt
Again, you are interpreting. I'm taking what the story itself states. As Vris already said.
hollow dock
Quiet takes it at flat front face value while you and I are just reading inbetween the lines
uncut vault
We're also taking what the story itself states. We're just taking different lines.
hollow dock
Both views aren't wrong, but both aren't necessarily right.
zinc sandal
Neither the Void or the Light can see the whole truth, however. So both of them will tell half-truths. The way they deliver is just different.
Void: "Look at all these possibilities!"
Light: "This is the only path. ONLY this one."
jade basalt
@uncut vault No, both Alleria & Locus call them lies, but you say they aren't lies. And you bring alternate timelines into this. So you are interpreting. Not that it's a bad thing, I'm just saying I'd rather take what the story itself states rather than read between the lines and find one interpretation. Just different approaches.
jade basalt
both Alleria & Locus call them lies
hollow dock
Yes. We are saying they are lies to Alleria as well. As I was sayign in my earlier mini-rant about how from this Alleria's perspective, she could never do these things and thus they are lies to ehr.
But the visions themselves, aren't. Theyre happening in some far off timeline in the future as one of the many possibilities that exist.
rich apex
hollow dock
Right. What about it Hyper?
rich apex
Seems pretty explicit in 'void lords are bad'
leaden garden
And it does show a very clear differentiation between the Naaru and Void Lords. One brings peace, hope, and healing, the other utter destruction.
hollow dock
in which that is th void lords themselves
zinc sandal
Things are not black and white.
hollow dock
Not the Void and Light
Void and Light are just forces. Their manifestations aren't entirely representative of them. Xe'ra is cold, calculating and uncaring while say things like Anzu are sympathetic.
leaden garden
That's the thing, the void lords ARE the void, whereas the Naaru are basically the "old god" variants of the Light. We don't really know what the Void Lord equivalent for the Light is yet
hollow dock
Well not entirely Benj. The void lords are entities in the Void.
Theyre not the void itself
zinc sandal
Xe'ra is definitely not Lawful Good.
hollow dock
She's true neutral.
leaden garden
Chaotic Good more like
hollow dock
Light Lord is the Void Lord equivalent kappa
leaden garden
I haven't seen any mention of "light lords" yet, granted I don't always get to follow the lore as closely as I'd like
hollow dock
it was a joke. I assume you dont use twitch often.
zinc sandal
lmao
leaden garden
Nope
hollow dock
Kappa means 'joking'
leaden garden
Ah
also means joking
leaden garden
There's a Dadgar emote? xD
hollow dock
Yes there is
hollow dock
If its that stupid one from Pyro, I can break it apart with one sentence.
leaden garden
Idr who came up with it
hollow dock
Blizzard reused art assets to make Eonar's 'boss room'
Not to mention Elune resides on the White moon. Eonar's boss room is lacking a lot of white and Azeroth in the sky.
tropic trail
Will Legion-daries be removed once BfA launches?
hollow dock
Nope! Legiondaries will remain in the game perminat for now.
tropic trail
Awesome
hollow dock
They're just getting replaced as a drop system in BFA
leaden garden
Well, there's a big ol' moon in the sky when you're with Eonar between her planet, called ELUNaria, and all the keys in Legion are items from the Titans (Aegis of Aggramar etc) except for one: The Tears of Elune, found is Val'sharah (a very lifey place with the world tree at it's peak).
hollow dock
Theyre not dead. they're alive.
sullen dagger
arent they old gods and void lords?
hollow dock
Theyre old gods. not void lords.
leaden garden
Void Lords created the old gods as their agents
hollow dock
Void lords can't exist in our reality.
sullen dagger
hm
hollow dock
And really, the Old Gods are FF missles sent into our reality.
leaden garden
They can, but it takes a lot of effort and they have to consume massive amounts of matter and energy to remain
hollow dock
The void lords make em, shoot em out. They do their thing here or not to planets hoping to get a titan.
Kinda makes me think of all the old gods that never hit a planet and are just hurtling through space.
leaden garden
hehe
zinc sandal
That must be disgusting
leaden garden
Giant balls of teeth and tentacles floating in the nothingness of space
hollow dock
theyre not even floating. theyre in constant perpetual movement
zinc sandal
So... Starcraft's leviathans?
uncut vault
I imagine them flying through the air like the air drops from the Heart of the Swarm cinematic
hollow dock
STARCRAFT IS THE FUTURE OF WARCRAFT CONFIRMED
zinc sandal
^
uncut vault
Swelling SC music and everything
hollow dock
Zerg are just old god remnants
zinc sandal
YUP
hollow dock
IT MAKES SENSE IF YOU DONT THINK ABOUT IT
zinc sandal
XD
uncut vault
See, that’s the best future because it means all Azeroth races except humans and Draenei are dead
zinc sandal
Draenei become Protoss
leaden garden
YESSSSSSSSSSS
zinc sandal
Kerrigan is one of Alleria's descendants
leaden garden
I always compared Draenei to the Protoss anyways lol
hollow dock
PSIONICS ARE JUST MAGES
leaden garden
Or would the Protoss be more akin to the Broken?
zinc sandal
The Naaru are actually the Xel'naga
hollow dock
Protoss are the Broken and Draenei that kept evolving
uncut vault
What if irl is actually Warcraft, just the point between the end of WoW and the beginning of SC 🤔
zinc sandal
Then why am I not a walking chandelier?
leaden garden
lol
hollow dock
Why am I not a beautiful gay elf?
zinc sandal
You're beautiful and gay, though
uncut vault
You might not be but I am
leaden garden
Well you can get 2/3 if you want
zinc sandal
Just...not an elf
hollow dock
thanks Mess.
leaden garden
Get some prosthetic ears and say "I identify as Elfkin"
zinc sandal
Weebism? IN MY SERVER?!
hollow dock
I can't be elfkin
leaden garden
Sorry, "I SELF-identify as Elfkin"
It got quiet real quick.................. Change of topic!: Anything think Broken are gonna go Horde?
sage tapir
they're already part of the alliance
leaden garden
I thought the same, but now I'm hearing Draenor orcs might go Alli?
hollow dock
Theyre already in the alliance. How would they defect? Why? 🤔
sage tapir
i'd sooner jump off a bridge than live to see orcs on alliance
jovial coral
Is there a list of races that are "already" in horde or alliance
uncut vault
Mr. Draenor is free seems like just the kind of stand up guy to join the boys in blue
zinc sandal
I don't think brown orcs will join the Alliance, but I do believe there can be some sort of agreement to overthrow Sylvanas
leaden garden
@hollow dock idk, thinking about it my mind drifts to Broken chilling on the Exodar/minding their own business and a couple assholes walk by and cough out "Lightless" like its a racial slur at them, and eventually the Broken deciding to go over to the side of the already shamanistic Horde
sage tapir
sylvanas can go, idgaf about her
but having orcs on alliance would be shitting on the entirety of warcraft
the very core of the franchise
zinc sandal
^
leaden garden
^ I agree, I doesn't even really make sense from what I can tell
Just seems like the kinda thing they'd do just to do
Also yeah, fuck Sylvannas
And fuck Genn too
uncut vault
Broken are kinda just the same situation as dark irons. Some are in the Alliance, most of them aren’t. King Andy just needs to put in a bit of effort to bring them all in
sage tapir
genn is like a fart in a tornado compared to sylvanas
she's ruining the horde
to save her own ass
uncut vault
I mean they seem to be doin pretty nice so far, and Sylv seems to care about saving the Horde too.
sage tapir
the moment she sees an opportunity to further her own goals she's going to ditch the horde
uncut vault
She’s certainly done better as diversifying the Horde than Garrosh or Vol’jin
leaden garden
Pretty nice? The Horde are on the ropes and Sylvannas is the kinda person to implement kamikaze soldiers to win out of desparation
sage tapir
as proven in stormheim
uncut vault
Her goals seem to involve the Horde too, assuming the datamined lines are from her
zinc sandal
Sylvanas never wanted to be Warchief. She's all about subtlety and working from the shadows. Being Warchief makes that extremely difficult.
leaden garden
Idk about that. I think Sunwalkers were pretty stupid
uncut vault
The way I see it, her character post-Arthas is about survival. From then to now, her development has been learning to care about the survival of not just herself and her forsaken, but everyone she leads.
zinc sandal
The only reason Vol'jin died was because Alliance players were whining about Varian being killed. Nothing else.
leaden garden
^
and he died like a bitch too... like... ugh
Got shanked from behind and then died in a chair
We got to see Varian do cool shit, why can't we once see a troll kick some ass
uncut vault
I think from what we’ve seen of Before the Storm to BfA dialogue, she does get proper development
jovial coral
His spirit lives on
sage tapir
i think a bigger reason was to put sylvanas in charge and satisfy her horny teenager fanbase
uncut vault
We’ll definitely see trolls kick ass in BfA
uncut vault
I just wish they’d give Rokhan a unique model
hollow dock
maybe they will
leaden garden
I wish they'd give us a troll leader with some importance and give him some screen time
My warrior is 100% going zandalari
hollow dock
Like the zandalari leaders?
uncut vault
He’s getting a lot in BfA
leaden garden
And my paladin too, maybe, hopefully
uncut vault
We quest with him and Talanji all through Nazmir
He’s great in the stormwind extraction too
leaden garden
Who? Volj or Rokhan?
uncut vault
Rokhan
uncut vault
Sadly no, just seen footage
leaden garden
ah
hollow dock
He should be getting his own model.
jovial coral
Sylvanas should bring Vol'jin back as undead he'd be like "oh wtf Mon?!"
hollow dock
even if its just an altered zandalari model.
uncut vault
I like the direction they seem to be going with his character. He seems skeptical of loa that aren’t his own
hollow dock
I dont think Sylvanas is stupid enough to mess with the Loa like that Brown.
zinc sandal
I'd love to get a beta key but only to try out the class changes. I would not be doing any content.
leaden garden
That would likely piss off the entire Darkspear tribe and wouild not be a good move for her
leaden garden
All the people who respected and liked Vol'jin, yeah
uncut vault
I mean the Horde is trying to get Bwonsamdi on sylvanas’ side
leaden garden
Wut?
uncut vault
He wants a million souls in exchange for helping them
hollow dock
I mean.
zinc sandal
Bwonsamdi would NOT be happy if Sylvanas raises Vol'jin.
hollow dock
Sylvanas isn't the smartest lady
leaden garden
LOL right
uncut vault
More likely Bwonsamdi will raise him in exchange for more war, which is exactly what he wants for more souls
hollow dock
I can see Bwonsamdi just backstabbing Sylvybae tho
uncut vault
That’s the whole reason he kept Vol’jin alive in the first place iirc
Cause Vol’jin would kill more people for Bwonsamdi
Same can apply to Sylv and the Horde. Give them aid, they give him souls
zinc sandal
Maybe
sullen dagger
regarding the alliance orcs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvcdQqt_-bI
the reasons they give are feasible ones
it's theorycrafting and a long shot
but it's POSSIBLE
and hinted for saurfang
uncut vault
It’s a possibility, sure. Could even make sense story wise
rich apex
Tinfoil theory man
jovial coral
If it were to happen it wouldn't happen in bfa
rich apex
(a -great- tinfoil theory tho)
hollow dock
I think we're just going to pull a pandaria
uncut vault
Just not probable because orcs are pretty definitely Horde
rich apex
We're absolutely pulling a Pandaria
hollow dock
and Saurfang and the Horde will lead a campaign against Sylvanas and the Forsaken Loyalist.
rich apex
Well
sullen dagger
not the un touched by fel
rich apex
Minus Garroshing
uncut vault
And hordies have been asking for brown orcs since forever
rich apex
I can desperately dream that Sylvie won't just be Garrosh 2.0
hollow dock
she's not gonna be garrosh 2.0
rich apex
But otherwise Alliance and Horde are forced to unite against Old God shenanigans
sullen dagger
i just hope sylvannas dont hot the seat of the horde much time
sick pecan
rich apex
Sylvie becoming a third party threat with her loyalists is 100% Garrosh 2.0
uncut vault
I mean, as of now she seems to have good intentions, that’s something Garrosh never had
hollow dock
we're fighting her in a three phase fight to burn her last three Valkyr
and then kill her for good.
sullen dagger
hog*
hollow dock
Garrosh wanted Azeroth for the HOrde.
rich apex
The 'true' Horde
sullen dagger
sylvannas? good intentions? for who?
royal nacelle
Hold on did you say were killing Sylvanas
rich apex
Sylvie has good intentions in a ruthless undead logic
rich apex
But finale boss will be N'zoth, so
royal nacelle
Why are we fighting Sylvanas
hollow dock
We dont know that for certain Hypre
rich apex
True
hollow dock
Because we're doing Pandaria 2.0 Icarus
royal nacelle
And why N'Zoth
rich apex
We could fight Sylvie because BLizz doesn't know how to write the Horde except as villains, apparently
uncut vault
I mean, while we shouldn’t take her word as fact, she does seem to say she wants peace, and Kalimdor isolated for the Horde. We really just need Before the Storm to see what shifted Sylvanas so much
rich apex
But we're more likely fighting N'zoth because they're been foreshadowing void stuff for the entirety of Legion
royal nacelle
I trust Sylvanas
rich apex
Also because Azshara is the second raid tier
rich apex
#reelectthrall2020
jovial coral
Wait so who will we actually kill
uncut vault
I trust Sylvanas, don’t trust the possible tricks that have been played on her. But in terms of BfA stuff, I think she’s got the best possible reasons in a world where the conflict is forced by Blizz.
hollow dock
She's really not Icarus. She's working for her best intentions and that of the forsaken.
royal nacelle
Just out of curiosity
Who do you think would be better suited as of right now
Besides thrall
hollow dock
She's really not Icarus. She's working for her best intentions and that of the forsaken.
Anduin has been promoting for peace since he had a voice in the alliance :v
uncut vault
Saurfang
hollow dock
Saurfang, Lor'themar, Baine, a resurrected Vol'jin.
hollow dock
It really isnt. Thrall took the helm after an orcish warchief.
after a particularly bad one at that
uncut vault
But the question isn’t who needs story relevance, it’s who would be most fitting. In a world for peace, Saurfang would be the best, even over thrall imo
royal nacelle
Saurfang seems too... angry to me
hollow dock
Saurfangs been through the thick of it, has seen the alliance's kindness.
He knows they will go for peace if theyre given the chance.
royal nacelle
Hmmm
hollow dock
Icecrown, Silithus, Broken Shore.
uncut vault
He’s got the most experience with the Wrynns, and certainly isn’t an angry dude in terms of orcs
In his old age he’s one of the calmer ones
hollow dock
He's just a disgruntled dad.
royal nacelle
I'd accept him, you're right. He isn't all that bad
uncut vault
Delivers some amazing speeches
royal nacelle
What about Bloodhoof?
uncut vault
He’s not all that experienced
royal nacelle
He is green, yes. And he was vengeful in the tauren starting zone against that traitor guy
uncut vault
But in terms of peace with the current alliance, he would be the best choice
As he and Anduin are friends
hollow dock
traitor lady* in which a small civil scuffle is a far cry from end of the world stuff.
royal nacelle
Tauren are the closest race the horde have to the alliance
uncut vault
Plus it seems Anduin gave fearbreaker to him once again at some point between war crimes and BfA
royal nacelle
What do you think would happen if Lor'Themar came into power?
true matrix
some dumb people would get mad about it probably
rich apex
The general forums riot
royal nacelle
I'm not super familiar with his character but he's a blood elf
true matrix
he's actually one of my favourite characters in the game
royal nacelle
Ha fair point
hollow dock
there is still PVP!
uncut vault
They hinted at it a bit in MoP, I think current lor’themar wouldn’t do too well, developed a bit of Alliance disdain, with decent reason
hollow dock
Wargames, skirmishes! Practice matches!
hollow dock
WE ARE ALWAYS AT WAR BLIZZARD!
royal nacelle
Always
rich apex
But yeah they'll never make a blood elf warchief
hollow dock
they will make an undead HIGH elf warchief though
royal nacelle
Sadness
uncut vault
They made a high elf one :^)
royal nacelle
Kek
rich apex
Sylvanas is a ruthless undead killing machine
hollow dock
she's still an undead high elf
rich apex
She doesn't have the faux baggage of prissy, weak blood elves
(Despite what the blood elves actually do in canon)
true matrix
lor'themar doesn't appeal to the Straight Dude Masses™
uncut vault
Btw, I love the double symbolism of the starter quest in BfA, Tides of War
hollow dock
Ha.
uncut vault
I mean, lorthemar appeals to certain masses of mine
true matrix
he's not a girl and also not buff enough to be a decent power fantasy character
uncut vault
I’d be fine with him as warchief
royal nacelle
Same
rich apex
In universe, sure he'd be great
true matrix
yeah I know I'm just talking about the general populace
rich apex
But it's an out of universe decision
uncut vault
I’m certain RP servers would love it
rich apex
Every orc RPer will piss themselves
(more than they already are because Sylvanas is going to tell off poor, innocent Saurfang)
uncut vault
He and Moira both need unique models where they have muscle tees and beefy arms
true matrix
he did throw a bench in a fountain
rich apex
No unique model 😛
hollow dock
Yea that's something Sylvanas can't do
royal nacelle
Sylvanas is chill though
hollow dock
and unlike Sylvybae, Lor'themar has all the fangirls.
rich apex
Next Warchief is a tossup between Saurfang, Baine, Thrall, and Vol'jin
royal nacelle
I still believe in her
uncut vault
That’s how the expansion ends, Moira and Lorthemar sit at a table and arm wrestle
hollow dock
That's a real bad move.
rich apex
Most likely Saufang or Baine
hollow dock
Never trust the witch
true matrix
@uncut vault god I wish
hollow dock
and whoever wins
royal nacelle
Why not?
true matrix
they finally gave baine a unique model and his own VA so
rich apex
So Baine might actually do something
royal nacelle
Deception isn't too bad
It's better than warmongering
rich apex
It's a miracle
uncut vault
Moira would totally win. Have you seen the arms on female dwarves? I’m not into girls but ho boy.
hollow dock
Except that's why you shouldn't trust her
royal nacelle
I still think she wants what's best for the horde
true matrix
I heard moira thaurissan had an eight pack. that moira thaurissan was shredded...,
hollow dock
I heard that Moira crushed three Frost troll skulls at the same time
uncut vault
Faction leader gym AU when
royal nacelle
WoW dating sim pls
royal nacelle
Kekekekekek
true matrix
hey dating sims aren't necessarily weeb shit
hollow dock
Theyre all weeb shit. Show me 1 non-weeby dating sim.
true matrix
dream daddy?
uncut vault
The bara ones usually aren’t
true matrix
developed by a western company at least :V
uncut vault
But they’re usually also really sexual
royal nacelle
I just want opportunity to have relations with Liadrin
hollow dock
thats weeby as all heck
true matrix
liadrin is a wonderful character, I'm glad she's had more relevance lately
hollow dock
Oh Ic, I have the perfect pic for you then
uncut vault
Liadrin just need to join Silvermoon as one of lorthemars advisors
true matrix
I mean she's essentially the city's ambassador at this point
uncut vault
Have her stand in their little circle in sunfury spire and bicker with them
true matrix
that's a pretty significant role
hollow dock
Liadrin just needs tofollow the Windrunners and get a human arm candy
true matrix
god no
uncut vault
Concept: Liadrin and Calia
royal nacelle
Yes
uncut vault
She’s Lordaeron nobility, she’s a skilled combatant
hollow dock
and I mean everyone
uncut vault
Fits the bill for elven arm candy
royal nacelle
I know little to nothing about alliance characters
hollow dock
Calia is the sister to Arthas
uncut vault
But really Legion did have a lot of good gay hinting content
true matrix
oh calia would... I wouldn't say no to that...
uncut vault
Aponi and Delas is my favorite crack ship
hollow dock
the last surviving member of the Menethil bloodline and rightful owner of the lands.
true matrix
I liked liadrin and yrel but sadly the latter is probably not coming back so... alas
Gal Paladins™
uncut vault
You mean Yrel and Yrel with a lower pitched voice?
true matrix
OH SHIT U RIGHT
royal nacelle
Kek
hollow dock
Yrel can only be shipped with herself
true matrix
liadrin and thalyssra... excellent, high quality, very good
and then valtrois with stellagosa
rich apex
'i hope we can discuss things in more comfortable circumstances 😘 '
uncut vault
See that ones just barely not canon
uncut vault
The gal that wrote those quests wholly ships it
uncut vault
Blizz knows that dragon x mortal ships are everyone’s secret kink
true matrix
leaden garden
ships?
leaden garden
l;ol
lol*
I left a discussion about Broken/Draenor orcs and returned to lesbian fan-theories?
hollow dock
They've been reading the transcripts from the RP servers. they know what we want.
rich apex
It's better that way
true matrix
yeah that happens don't worry about it
leaden garden
this is what I get for going to lunch lol
hollow dock
Yea. we prove the youtube theory exists.
leaden garden
I didn't see anything of the sort (in regards to Thalyssra and Liadrin)
uncut vault
This is the person that wrote the quests
hollow dock
The unlock questline for the Nightborne
hollow dock
theyre so gay for each other
leaden garden
Didn't get that vibe at all
true matrix
@uncut vault dude holy shit thank you for linking this
uncut vault
Questifer is an amazing Warcraft blog to follow, has ton of insights on Suramar and what went into making it so lively
- they love nightborne
true matrix
I'm glad WoW quests are in good hands
hollow dock
it needs to be gayer
leaden garden
Silvermoon isn't gay enough?
zinc sandal
Is there a way to play the Vindicaar music ingame without being there?
sage tapir
there's probably a script you can run via a macro
zinc sandal
Which though?
strange falcon
you could also just pick it from youtube
sage tapir
i don't know
sage tapir
but i know that it can be done with lament of the highborne
hollow dock
Tbf Dafire, thats not what mess asked for
zinc sandal
I'd rather play it in-game so I don't have to open another window and constantly press play after it's over
hollow dock
If yoyre inable to find a way to play it in game, I do know a way for youtube videos to constantly repeat with little to no break
hollow dock
Youtuberepeat is also a thing
sage tapir
yeah but there's no need for it really
unless you want to replay a specific part of a video
zinc sandal
Oh! I didn't know about either of those.
hollow dock
The website? It repeats the entire video for you. Automatically.
sage tapir
yes but youtube does that too so
strange falcon
listenonrepeat is what i use
hollow dock
Thats the website Im talking about. Typing repeat I think before or agter youtube links you directly to a mirror where it just loops the video youre on.
zinc sandal
Thank you, guys. I'll try to find a way to play it in-game, but for now this is great.
hollow dock
Ill help when I get home.
tidal mauve
Is the new bfa gonna let us fly?
strange falcon
99% chance you'll have to do pathfinder like legion
hollow dock
100% its not going to let you skip new content day 1.
tidal mauve
Will the early release ones count towards that pathfinder?
hollow dock
early release what?
tidal mauve
The factions we are lvling now
hollow dock
no.
strange falcon
ye,one of the reasons for pathfinder is the artists actually wanting their work recognized instead of zooming through watching the skybox
hollow dock
If anything, look at our current two part pathfinder for Legion
that'll tell you what's going to be needed more or less for BFA
hollow dock
or in simple terms play the game, get flying
zinc sandal
Wasn't it Exalted at first? It might be the same.
strange falcon
it was always revered
zinc sandal
It was? nvm then
hollow dock
it was exalted for the Mounts.
strange falcon
nightfallen just REQUIRED you to be exalted to finish the questline(which got removed in like 7.3)