me, kinkshaming?
pfffffff
#beta-ptr-spoilers
meager warren
steel venture
and somehow we still dont have indoor plumbing.
clever ember
There be a croc roaming those canals.
tropic trail
sewer beast
meager warren
the only kink i shame is either vore or literal food porn
clever ember
Same thing xD
zinc sandal
VORE
meager warren
definitely not the same thing
glad ether
I have met many people online, and witnessed some genuine stomach churning degeneracy, some kinks should be shamed
meager warren
agreed
clever ember
It’s still a crocolisk. Even if it’s called a sewer beast.
tropic trail
not that anime girls with cat ears shit, I mean fursuit furries
meager warren
like, if ya want to flap around like flamingos while giving blowjobs, all the best.
But if you get horny by fucking food, that's a little over the line
glad ether
Vulpera incoming
tropic trail
vulpera are fine imo, it's only bad if you're attracted to them
or are wearing a fursuit
meager warren
oh wait, bestiality is fucking gross too
glad ether
Wanna know whats worse than that? Lalafells
glad ether
Yeah
Look like literal toddlers
People playing them is fine, but i have met people who fetishize them, scary
tropic trail
sometimes I wonder if that's why gnomes get no love, blizzard is scared they'll gain a similar rep
meager warren
i bet they have already
tropic trail
they're short, but they're not really childlike
meager warren
but, like children, they're ugly af
tropic trail
yeah, those faces didn't translate well into the HD models
glad ether
Vulpera will be popular though, would make sense to add them
meager warren
and i wanna make Davy Jones but the chances of that happening is slim to nil
glad ether
Playable faceless ones
tropic trail
literally 0 face customization options
glad ether
Only way to talk to them in /say is as a shadow priest in void form
meager warren
if they make Faceless Ones playable, they better make the body-types customizable
glad ether
Im sad void elves cant talk the mad ravings language that shadow priests do
tropic trail
it's sad warlocks can't talk demonic anymore also
glad ether
Then again their entire theme and story is about not giving in and going mad
tropic trail
Languages need an overhaul I think, who gets what language and so on
meager warren
it's sad that there's not a universal language for Horde and Alliance
uncut vault
Canonically it’s Common
meager warren
Factions need to be removed.
Give me neutral factions and i'll be happy, maybe
glad ether
Well, if you play a void elf, use thalassian to speak to any blood elf/DH/Horde mage
hollow dock
You'll still complain about the neutral factions :v
meager warren
nah
hollow dock
its in a WoW players blood to just complain
meager warren
as long as they allow me total choice in neutral factions, i'd be content
tropic trail
what if they added coop realms where you could group crossfaction
how fast do you think those would fill
hollow dock
They'd be almost always maxed with PVErs
tropic trail
if the pop ever drops low enough, I'd bet they'd enable crossfaction play
meager warren
If neutral factions became a thing, i'd have my worgen druid, tauren paladin, and troll DK DK team up together
glad ether
WoWs core playerbase who will never leave is likely too big for that to have to happen
meager warren
pat no
glad ether
Are there any real good estimates as to how the game is doing subs wise atm?
glad ether
Still massive when compared with its closest competition
tropic trail
ff14 is at like 2 or 3 I think
it's catching up, but still a ways behind
but it's interesting, the two subscription mmos are arguably the most succesful
hollow dock
most F2P MMOs just dont get the funding needed for production quality
glad ether
People will pay for quality content updates and development
tropic trail
I think the big 4 that aren't wanna be mmos like destiny are ESO GW FF14 and wow
none others really come to mind that are super big
hollow dock
SWTOR is starting to get there
tropic trail
I thought that was mostly dead
glad ether
BDO 
hollow dock
Archeage 
meager warren
ESO isn't p2p
tropic trail
its b2p
meager warren
not the same thing
tropic trail
it's better than f2p at least
hollow dock
However its not a f2p MMO. Its just not subscription based either. as far as I know
glad ether
Is Warframe an mmo? Thats f2p and doing really well
tropic trail
it used to be sub based, but its rough launched killed that plan
meager warren
Minecraft is doing pretty okay, imo.
That's b2p
meager warren
eh
hollow dock
technically
tropic trail
"PUBG"
hollow dock
Speaking of Warframe, its RNG is kicking me on the farm for the new stuff they rotated back into the game ;3;
tropic trail
too grindy for my tastes
glad ether
Im yet to try for them
hollow dock
its grindy but sorta the fun grindy.
The timegating is annoying but everything about this game is so damn fun. :v
hollow dock
Id compare it to Vanillas grindy
glad ether
I have more money than time or sense atm so might get the unvault pack
tropic trail
freemium player spits
glad ether
Yeah Warframe has always been a game i can fall back on when im bored of other games
meager warren
Warframe is too grindy, yet you play WoW.
tropic trail
yeah?
polar mango
WoW really isn't grindy lol
meager warren
it kinda is
polar mango
Not really, everything is time-gated. Eliminates the grind.
glad ether
Usually of nothing is happening in WoW or XIV i endup on warframe, its great like that
meager warren
yes, really
tropic trail
if you're pushing the bleeding edge of mythics then sure
polar mango
Ragnarok Online is a fucking grind.
tropic trail
but i play casually
polar mango
WoW is ez-mode handed to you.
If raids weren't locked and droprates were less than half a percent, then it would be a grind.
Until then? Nah. Just lots and lots of time-gating.
hollow dock
Clearly a player that doesn't play through the chunk of the expac logs in at the end when blizzard is pushing you to complete everything
Thusly removing all sense of grind
meager warren
not really?
you need to grind to shit to get even 100k gold. Much less the max of gold.
Need to grind to shit to get exalted on every faction.
Need to grind to shit to get all mounts, all pets, all achieves, etc
polar mango
No you don't lol
meager warren
yes
tropic trail
im exalted and I can promise you I don't grind
glad ether
Mind numbing boring grinds arent a good thing, i dont know why some people seem to think theg are
polar mango
RO isn't boring.
meager warren
i haven't played Vanilla.
Today's grind may not be as bad but that doesn't mean there's no grind
tropic trail
I was like 8 during vanilla, I remember playing on my brothers account
zinc sandal
If you stay up to date with content you don't need to grind
polar mango
There are a few small farms in the game, but other than that no biggie.
tropic trail
and getting messed up in the cave full of spiders on my night elf
zinc sandal
XD
glad ether
That also sounds awful
polar mango
It's fun though.
Pure stat builds, totally interchangable.
Tons and tons of classes/jobs.
If I had to do that in WoW I would be sooooo bored.
glad ether
Like, "I give up fuck this game" awful
hollow dock
See where I come from that's called Nightengale Syndrome
zinc sandal
WoW action combat when pls Blizz
polar mango
Grind applied to that would drive me nuts.
hollow dock
Never happen.
zinc sandal
It should
tropic trail
I'm not so sure about that, we're seeing more and more hybrid moves, like a lot of demon hunter stuff
zinc sandal
But it should
tropic trail
wow could end up having combat akin to wildstar eventually
hollow dock
Blizzard has always kept 1 philosophy that stops that from ever happening
polar mango
The combat is fun for what it is.
hollow dock
accessibility. which is the only reason WoW has stayed alive for so long
polar mango
But sitting in a raid and hitting the same button for 12 minutes until the boss dies is well...
Boring.
glad ether
Then being so open to mods helps too tbh
meager warren
i mean, "stand and click" sounds pretty fucking grindy
polar mango
Oh yeah, WoW crushes that game.
hollow dock
the fact that you can raid, PVP and such on a PC 5+ years old is a testament to that philosophy
glad ether
WoWs default ui is garbage
polar mango
Haha totally.
tropic trail
I like the default ui
polar mango
At the same time, they also have the best UI in the world because it's so customizable.
tropic trail
it's simple and really isn't missing anything I need
polar mango
No one comes close.
glad ether
I likes me stuff much more central and to have more tools
tropic trail
all the raid footage I've seen always looks cluttered because of all the hotbars and frames they move to the middle of their screens
polar mango
Some people have crazy UI's for raids.
I don't need that much info lol
Move out of stuff, kill stuff, read the adventure guide... seems to work for me.
tropic trail
to each their own I guess, I also don't like games with super flashy effects constantly being spat at you
like why do my basic abilities look so flashy? it was just a sword hit
glad ether
I just have an elvui custom setup and some other stuff like weakauras, details and angry assignments
glad ether
Immersion for questing too
polar mango
EVE Online is all slow combat and spreadsheets, nothing 'flashy' there. XD
hollow dock
Oh god Eve is so dull though
tropic trail
anyway, I gotta go get food before the cafeteria closes
polar mango
I like the flashy stuff because without it I get bored.
zinc sandal
I use default UI, Skada, DBM, and some RP addons
polar mango
That's why I was so happy with the changes to Frost Mage.
So crunchy now. It's awesome.
glad ether
I hate the rng tho, standing there spamming frost bolt with no procs waiting for ebon bolt makes me sad
tropic trail
I'm fine with some flash, but not when every attack looks like a finishing super combo move
glad ether
Ebon bolt is gone in BFA too, 5/5
zinc sandal
I like SPriest. It's flashy enough w/o being overwhelming.
polar mango
Yeah, proc based rotations are pretty obnoxious.
Frost Mage is pretty much in perfect cycle now though with the big icecicle talent.
I can rely on the procs.
Frost DK though lol.
That's a game of whack-a-mole.
WW Monk is absolutely perfect.
hollow dock
When played properly it really isnt
zinc sandal
WW right now is clunky
polar mango
WW has always felt amazing to me.
The 'zen' thing is on point.
It just has such a nice flow.
I love my AFFLOCK too but damn if it isn't dead boring.
Not sure there is any way to 'spice up' dots.
zinc sandal
I love DoTs. I'm that kind of player.
zinc sandal
Not to me, tbh.
polar mango
They were like "We nerfed locks 6%"
Didn't feel it.
Nerf my feral and I'll notice right away.
Like MoP and WoD. 😦
It's like they forgot the spec existed lol.
zinc sandal
Heard Feral sucks
polar mango
Feral is not for the light hearted.
It's much better now though but MoP and WoD feral was trash.
I had to quit playing him.
Feral is pretty much OP as shit right now though. So much heal, great bleeds, great burst, great AoE.
Self-buffs, speed, stealth.
hollow dock
Im wondering if all of thsi is fromPVP or PVEs standpoint
I think that context needs to be adressed
zinc sandal
I don't PvP so...
polar mango
That's PvE.
Extremely versatile spec.
That's not including the 2 interupts, the AoE stun, and the roots. lol
bitter quarry
i'm pretty damn Excited with These Demo Changes for BFA
hollow dock
Eh. Maybe my guilds feral is just that good of a player. MoP, WoD, Legion he's either near the top or middle of the pack always.
zinc sandal
Same, Spectag
polar mango
I don't play Demo, they looking good though eh?
bitter quarry
yeah it's not just Imp spamming now
polar mango
I rarely come across anyone but Afflocks.
zinc sandal
Demo's rotation in Legion is so circular.
bitter quarry
i Main Demo
zinc sandal
Hand, Empowerment, Dread, Empowerment, Bolt to build up shards.
strange falcon
@hollow dock he should be happy,they're indirectly buffing feral in bfa
hollow dock
Theyve done nothing but buff feral. IMO I dont see the reason for it as people have been doing fine without these buffs.
polar mango
Feral getting a buff?
zinc sandal
Yeah, haste will affect poison and bleeds in BfA
strange falcon
assass rogue will also benefit greatly from this change
polar mango
Oh yeah, probably more than Feral.
zinc sandal
Yup
strange falcon
it may be the boost it needs to get on top of sub too
polar mango
That's awesome, can't wait to see Feral get the nerf bat on day 1.
zinc sandal
Spriest will now focus on Mastery.
strange falcon
also death from above is now a sub ONLY talent
polar mango
You're def gonna have people farming gear to switch stats so they go into the expansion with their new best stats.
I'll have to start working on a haste build.
zinc sandal
And I on mastery lol xD
polar mango
😄
I main WW Monk, it looks fabs in BfA too. So. Yeah. Expansion is just sounding more and more awesome every day.
The new gear/slot system looks confusing as hell though.
strange falcon
I may be a good mythic raider,but I don't care more than that much about stats o.o
polar mango
I'm sure it will make sense once we use it but I didn't understand the sphere tree.
Rotating slots to empower or something? Weird stuff.
hollow dock
Are spriests no longer a dot class?
strange falcon
hence why I won't make an effort to purposely grind gear that I'll be changing in less than a day
polar mango
What else am I gonna do?
strange falcon
idk find something else to do
polar mango
That 910 gear is so easy it's not even a grind.
strange falcon
I'm going to do loremaster on nightborne,level HM for heritage,get all prelegion legendaries,do all world events like winters veil,finish other games I have on the shelf
I'll be busy 😉
polar mango
I absolutely despise the legendary system so I have no interest in that, and I have my Void Elf at 95 or something so I'm pretty good in that dept.
Loremaster is dope though.
They made it a ton easier.
strange falcon
@polar mango I said PRE-LEGION,aka sulfuras,thunderfury etc
zinc sandal
@hollow dock They are a dot class, but with the changes to our mastery, it’ll be more important
strange falcon
I have no intent of grinding current legos
polar mango
OH
zinc sandal
Afflock is a dot class and they proritize mastery, too
hollow dock
So does their damage notfocus on the dots?
zinc sandal
Mastery empowers the dots
polar mango
Enjoy farming Firelands.
hollow dock
Does it give more insanity?
polar mango
loves firelands
zinc sandal
Consequently
strange falcon
also from wowheads last post,it seems first aids achievs are going legacy
polar mango
Only thing I need out of there is the Sack of Seeds from Majordomo who refuses to drop that shit lol
zinc sandal
I’ve no idea, Vris. It’s what the guys from the priest server are saying. They’re the ones who raid hardcore and shit.
But it does look like haste will not be a priority anymore.
In fact, they’re saying it might be Mastery > Haste = Crit
hollow dock
Well ask em. Only reason haste is any form of priority is because faster ticks=more void form which is just more damage.
zinc sandal
We’ll have to wait and see. They’re taking strange directions with a few specs.
strange falcon
yeah,its alpha,its way too early to freak out about stuff
strange falcon
oh god
zinc sandal
I want it
strange falcon
I'm sure I've seen a very similar model from cata or pandaria
high crag
The whispers are telling me to put out the fire!
tropic trail
the fire is telling me to make more fire
tropic trail
I think it's new
zinc sandal
@hollow dock If you go with a spirit build, Mastery is second best after Crit. If not, Mastery is best.
tropic trail
fits too well with the new stuff
zinc sandal
Crits generate spirits, and spirits generate insanity
strange falcon
I could swear its a staff from firelands
I think its the staff from Firelands just the wood part is now metal
boom new model
tropic trail
I can't believe how much I missed weapon drops
dense plover
new shield?
tropic trail
artifacts are cool and all, but there's something about getting that new staff each raid tier that just feels good
zinc sandal
That’s not new
tropic trail
gross wands
zinc sandal
Not new wand
tropic trail
looks like a wand maybe from wod
bitter quarry
wow Wands, weird there were no Artifact Wands in Legion
zinc sandal
IIRC wands were a joke weapon added at some point
tropic trail
I don't understand how wands stayed in, but throwing weapons were removed
zinc sandal
We’re getting ‘Shoot’ back, though
dense plover
well the glaive is new
theres a few new models
lots of placeholders
which means new models are on the way
zinc sandal
Yep
dense plover
New Keystone Affix - Blight: Damage and healing done increased when injured, and reduced when healthy.
interesting
zinc sandal
meager warren
hot
zinc sandal
You’re hot.
dense plover
likely tied to the dungeon i guess
unless Dazar is also tied to Uldir
mounts have been available from dungeons before right?
like from achievements or rare drops?
high crag
Yeah they have, just look at raven lord and swift white hawkstrider.
dense plover
then i think thats what this will be for
tropic trail
waited 15 years for a diffrent moonkin form, one allot smaller 😦
something they should start consider imo
ruby prawn
I hope they will update the moonkin form as well
The current one looks very bad
The animations at least should be changed
dry hatch
There's always the astral glyph appearance
ruby prawn
Yeah, at least we have that
merry briar
what a great spoiler
ruby prawn
Actually if they remove the moonkin form the worgen will have to put up with the ugliest animations in the game
merry briar
yep
ruby prawn
I think they would rather have the moonkin
subtle flower
Is the alteration to jewelcrafting, the new colored gems specifically, an addition, or also a squish? Since this many gems is ridiculous to look through and scroll by.
tropic trail
Meh worgen better than boomy for imo
tacit vine
waddup m'duds
gusty wolf
Hallo boiz
merry briar
bello hoiz
true matrix
hoilo baz
merry briar
no
mint arch
soooo
"So die your warrior's death, High Overlord Saurfang. It means little to me. Perhaps I will raise your broken body to serve me once more."
"Or perhaps you will have a chance to say hello to your son."
uncut vault
sylvanas is a bit of a bitch sometimes: news at 11
mint arch
and intentionally burning the tree
cant wait for the sylvanas kids to defend this
gonna be fun~
merry briar
lol
uncut vault
true sylvanas fan boys recognize that shes kind of a piece of shit
just a piece of shit with some reasons
glad ether
Wonder if Saurfang will defect over this
merry briar
fuck yes
dude apparently some people think that saurfang is going to join the alliance
mint arch
wut, no
mint arch
he is the REAL warchief
merry briar
have you seen the horde scenario
mint arch
like he is what horde is supposed to be
merry briar
?
glad ether
They cant have Saurfang or Baine as warchief or the petty faction war would end pretty soonish
merry briar
in the horde scenario saurfang is just like yo i surrender take me to anduin
glad ether
Yeah
merry briar
some people are sayin yoo what if he rolls ally
glad ether
That all happens after his big fallout with Sylvanas
Then someone betrays the horde rescue party
And informs Genn and Anduin that the Horde are in the city
So in true Horde fashion they set fire to the homes of civilians on their way out in the middle of the night
Forcing Jaina to let them go so she can get the firea under control
They are setting up the Horde as bad guys again :L
mint arch
yup
hey, we escaping so lets just burn innocents
das all cool`
for the banshee queeeeennnn, hehe
glad ether
Maybe they did it because they knew it would keep Jaina and the mages off their back as they delt with the fire, had they not Jaina woulda killed them all on the docks
glad ether
Setting a fire that big going in a city with alot of wooden houses will only end one way, London had a similar issue a while back :P
mint arch
im pretty sure lotsa buildings were on fire, not just storage
uncut vault
plus, it wasnt the Horde, it was Zul.
glad ether
All subject to change too
I wonder if they plan to keep Sylvanas as warchief, afterall she is much more marketable than an orc or troll
uncut vault
More than likely Saurfang will be used to garner actual lasting peace between the factions
but I highly doubt theyre going to change leaders again
mint arch
so bitch queen's plan is to conquer all of kalimdor for the horde....
so what? gonna just leave the blood elfs and sunwell
and how is she gonna deal with the druids? cenarion? velen and exodar?
uncut vault
hey, her sisters want it, just give that as a peace offering
shove all the elves there
glad ether
Now that Lordaeron has fallen the alliance could march right up to Silvermoon, hence warfronts
The Exodar and Silvermoon are gonna be left as footholds on the opposite factions continent, both would be real hard to take
mint arch
well
Exodar = no land border with Kalimdor. Silvermoon = land border with the rest of the mainland...
gusty wolf
But loading screen > sea.
mint arch
"The plan makes even less sense when you realize the Alliance capitals on Kalimdor are both located on some small islands and the Horde capitals on the Eastern Kingdoms are both firmly on the mainland. Hell, it would have made more sense for her to just leave Kalimdor to the Alliance and conquer the other continent"
^
xD
glad ether
Marching armies of living through the ghostlands would be rough
Also Id imagine itd be real hard to beat the spacegoats in their own ship
glad ether
Phaha
Shoulda be a sad orc and a really sad Tauren on there too
What do the Tauren think of burning Teldrassil, surely that wont go over well with them
glad ether
I want the nelves to go savage as a result, skinning orcs and hanging them from trees predator style n shizz
ruby prawn
Hamuul won't be pleased
@glad ether all nelves are going to say what demon hunters say
" I sacrificed everything" and all else
glad ether
Oh god
tropic trail
I want a World of Peacecraft :3
true matrix
you only just noticed? 😸
jovial coral
You'd think cause they tinker so much they'd have more
dusky ginkgo
Wait what?
subtle flower
I wonder how high you can level without killing a single thing.
dusky ginkgo
Gnomes don't have five fingers?
strange falcon
i think someone got to lvl 90 back in mists
by not killing anything
there was another guy who hit lvl 90 without ever leaving the starting zone
dusky ginkgo
The panda? Yeah, they're 110 now
merry briar
yeah he does it by mining and herbing
long wyvern
Curious if that would be easier now since everything scales now
hollow dock
Nah it doesn't scale that far.
daring venture
Nice to know that we get to burn stormwind as horde😎 
hollow dock
The starting zones allscale up to 20. At his stage of 110, it's still takes a few months of just grinding to get to max. Though I wouldn't be surprised if he was at gold cap by now
ruby prawn
@daring venture Stormwind???
daring venture
Yup
ruby prawn
Teldrasil burned
Sylvanas wanted to burn Stormwind
But didn't get to do so
Not really burn, but conquer it
ruby prawn
Only a few buildings were set on fire by the Zandalari, not the horde
daring venture
Yea but zandalari joins horde
ruby prawn
They burned it before they joined the horde
daring venture
Yup
ruby prawn
They were on a trip to Orgrimmar to Ally with them, but got captured by alliance (dogs) before that
daring venture
I think they went there to rescue saurfang
Then met the 2 zandalari
Broke em out
Slayed some guards
Sneaked out and got ambushef
Fought n ran
Then prophet zul torched it
hollow dock
the city is hardly razed
daring venture
And they ran for the ship
uncut vault
Prophet Zul, who never joins the Horde, burns three dock buildings
hollow dock
^
daring venture
He never joined how
The zandalar r supposed to join horde
Thats why we hv them as a race
hollow dock
Zul is one of our enemies when we arrive at Zandalar.
daring venture
Ohh
hollow dock
The zandalari=/=zul
hollow dock
which btw. what happened to rasty? Did he kick the bucket or did someone make him do it?
terse patrol
We arent there to save Saurfang. The Horde doesnt know hes alive.
ruby prawn
Why was Zul on a ship to Orgrimmar then?
hollow dock
Because he was being broken out by the horde.
strange falcon
Zul is bad news
hollow dock
Is he the one behind all the zandalari incursions?
terse patrol
Yes
daring venture
Why does zul hate us
ruby prawn
Why do we break him out if he is evil?
terse patrol
ruby prawn
Oh
He hates us because Vol'jin fought against his warriors
But why was he heading to Orgrimmar
daring venture
Ohh
terse patrol
Anyone who thinks Zul is gunna be the Horde’s new buddy is retarded
daring venture
Its this guy
terse patrol
Lmao
daring venture
😂
No wonder he hates us
We destroyed his plans
Zul vs rastakhan
Zandalar civil war
terse patrol
Who’s to say they arent working together
quartz gull
lol
dense plover
I mean
That is the story
It is a zandalari civil war
Or at least a coup
Essentially Talanji is seen as a good leader by Zul
And Talanji sees her father as a fool of a leader
She begins the Nazmir story talking about how foolish her father is for ignoring the blood trolls - there’s also a bit of I told you so from her there. I imagine the story is going to end with Talanji being in charge of Zandalar. Rastakhan probably dead by Zul’s hands, and us going after Zul because while Talanji wanted her father deposed, she didn’t want him killed
This is my story theory from what has been data mined and what we have seen in game
hollow dock
I can see that.
terse patrol
I get the feeling Rastakhan may have finally been convinced of Zul’s plans. I think the plan was to sacrifice Talanji to G’huun.
hollow dock
I can also see Rastakhan being uprooted from the seat by Zul only to try and betray our dear princess.
dense plover
Definitely not. It’s hinted heavily that Zul will be killed
dense plover
And Zul is with Talanji - he likely wants her in charge
terse patrol
Zul is a follower of Hakkar.
dense plover
No he isn’t
terse patrol
dense plover
He is not a dungeon boss
He is the reason we go to Atal Dazar
He wants to Rez Dazar - return zandalar to the glory days
terse patrol
I still think G’huun is going to birth Hakkar.
dense plover
That would make no sense
terse patrol
how would it not
hollow dock
or G'huun was made to be a new physical body for Hakkar.
dense plover
Ghuun is a corrupted titan construct
strange falcon
imo the blood trolls ress hakkar,but he's in his skeletal form like in sunken temple
dense plover
Made by the titans
strange falcon
and then he absorbs all the blood that's bloated ghuun
dense plover
And then locked away because it was a mistake
hollow dock
I thought the blood trolls made him
strange falcon
and we fight him
dense plover
No
hollow dock
Man theres a lot of misinformation going around
terse patrol
I personally thing that Hakkar is a part of Y’shraaj that was separated from the body torn out by Aman’thul.
dense plover
Before the sundering
hollow dock
Wait that doesn't make sense Honk
strange falcon
@hollow dock GHUUN was the result of experimenting with an old god
strange falcon
and is locked away in a titan facility called ULDIR
dense plover
Loa are animals that gain enough power to become like gods. Usually they gain some kind of blessing from a titan or titan keeper
hollow dock
and beaten them down. In which without the heart, the sha is all but gone at this point.
terse patrol
Hakkar is literally called the Blood God. Funny thing: Y’shraaj’s blood was splattered across southern Azeroth.
strange falcon
even IF y'shaarj was to still be alive,you cant do much without any head or heart
dense plover
Read his backstory
hollow dock
Hakkars origins are unknown. But we know he is a full blown loa.
terse patrol
I think Hakkar is literally the manifestation of Y’shraaj’s blood.
hollow dock
He couldn't be Honk. The heart of Y'shaarj is destroyed
hollow dock
all his manifestations are gone
terse patrol
His heart is gone, yes.
dense plover
Yshaarj blood also was not scattered all over Azeroth
terse patrol
But the lore states his blood covered the regions of Un’goro, Stranglethorn, etc
dense plover
Where does it say this?
terse patrol
Chronicle
dense plover
Uh
hollow dock
The sha is all but gone. The land theyve destroyed will eventually heal over. Y'shaarj has no more influence on Azeroth.
terse patrol
We don’t KNOW this.
dense plover
The sha we kill
strange falcon
relying on chronicle
terse patrol
You forget that the Old Gods are outside of the cycle.
hollow dock
Shao Hao tells us this as well as Cho.
terse patrol
They do not live or die.
hollow dock
He's the only old god we've managed to kill. and it was by accident :v
dense plover
That is the only way we know that can actually kill an old god
terse patrol
I believe Y’shraaj is ”dead”, in the sense that his body has been split apart. And part of it was used to create G’huun.
hollow dock
The body has been split apart but he's lived through the Sha honk
dense plover
^
strange falcon
y'shaarj has had his heart and 7 heads destroyed,so the only thing left would be the body,
hollow dock
Which only exist because of his Heart still being around
terse patrol
We’ll see. But if you think Y’shraaj is gone entirely, you’re wrong. Just sayin’.
hollow dock
Y'shaarj's body was removed from Azeroth. Probably still hurtling through open space.
dense plover
Especially considering hakkar didn’t show up until much later
terse patrol
Ask them. They won’t tell you a definitive answer. If anything, they’ll ignore the question or shoot something cryptic back.
strange falcon
to put a nail in the coffin,in the datamined boss abilities,y'shaarj isnt there,but all the other old gods are
hollow dock
yet they've answered truthfully on old lore?
When asked about even recent events, such as the Dragons going sterile during 4.3, they answered truthfully.
If its a spoiler then OK they'll do that Honk, but for shit thats already happened they certainly dont do that.
dense plover
The purpose of Ghuun was to try and get rid of the old gods - this was almost certainly a follow up to removing yshaarj from Azeroth. I guarantee that they didn’t use yshaarj to make ghuun. The titans are not dumb enough to use an old god to make something to stop old gods
Also, it wouldn’t be a titan construct if that was the case
hollow dock
they arent Illidan
dense plover
When the first cutscene clearly describes it as a titan construct
hollow dock
They know fighting fire with fire is to dangerous for the planet.
dense plover
A corrupt titan construct
terse patrol
We don’t know what G’huun is, or isn’t right now.
dense plover
If anything, this construct was probably too difficult to control, or after consuming old god stuff, which was it’s intended purpose, it was corrupted and became dangerous
Yes we fucking do
The fucking placeholder cutscene text
It says ghuun - a corrupted Tiran construct
terse patrol
It also says a blood god
dense plover
That’s not lore
terse patrol
lmao
hollow dock
the model is named blood god. o=
terse patrol
btw, Hakkar is called the Blood God too.
hollow dock
Yea. Yea he is.
dense plover
One is ingame VO and character beliefs the other is story stuff for the dev team
The dev team stuff is guaranteed to be true
They wouldn’t put placeholder text if they didn’t plan to use it
terse patrol
bs
terse patrol
Don’t take datamined text for granted.
dense plover
Something you seem to have trouble with
terse patrol
Blizzard always throws shit to throw people off in there.
dense plover
It’s not datamined text
It’s in the fucking game
It’s placeholder cutscene text
It’s what the cutscene team will use to make a cutscene
terse patrol
It’s also in the Alpha. You don’t think they won’t change shit?
You remember Baine in Highmountain’s Alpha?
You remember Wrathion?
dense plover
That was not a cutscene
jade basalt
Just chiming in to say that I remember Bwonsamdi mentioning during his first quests that there were several blood gods, not sure if that made it to alpha though.
dense plover
Yeah
As in will be replaced with a cutscene
Holding the place
Ghuun is not a piece of yshaarj
It looks nothing like yshaarj
It doesn’t act like yshaarj
I’d say if any old god
strange falcon
honkerton seriously,you're being skeptical just for the sake of denying evidence
dense plover
It would be tied to nzoth
strange falcon
it's pointless to talk anymore about it
dense plover
Considering that’s the old god we will be dealing with
jade basalt
To be fair we don't know exactly how G'Huun was created. The red may indicate N'Zoth. Or maybe it's a mix of all the different Old Gods' DNA. It doesn't look like any of them anyway, it's a slug and has no tentacles.
dense plover
All we know
jade basalt
Is that they experimented on "the Old Gods", and that resulted in the creation of G'Huun
So of course the best solution was to lock him up and forget about him, bravo Pantheon.
hollow dock
Hey Quiet, do you remember if the writers ever mentioned Y'shaarj actually being gone gone?
jade basalt
Yup. "dead dead" they said. But to be fair even if "Y'Shaarj" is dead, parts of him still "live on" in a form or another, for example his heart whispered, there's also the Echo of Y'Shaarj, and there's Xal'atoh.
Old Gods aren't fun to deal with, you wreck 'em, but their toenail develops its own personality and becomes just as dangerous.
hollow dock
indeed, but post the heart being drained into nothing by Garrosh that is how the Sha and his influences kept their hold right?
jade basalt
I'm not sure I got the question, but basically at the end of SoO the "last breath of Y'Sshaarj" (direct quote) was snuffed out. But the sha are still a thing as of Legion.
zinc sandal
Not for long, though, most likely.
hollow dock
With the heart gone, the seven sha are gone or fading* I really am bad with typing
dense plover
I thought we killed the 7 big sha and all that was left was the little bits
zinc sandal
Yes
jade basalt
When he "died", his pieces fell back on the region that would later be known as Pandaria, and his essence seeped into the ground. That was the "curse" pandaren legends mention. This caused negative emotions to manifest as living things, the "sha". The big ones you mention should be gone for good, normally.
dense plover
And yeah, ghuun was probably supposed to consume the old gods, store them inside its belly - which is why it can grow so big
But when it did, it was probably corrupted
hollow dock
So with his heart gone, does he still hold any grasp on the world? I know the heart was the most dangerous and thus vaulted away.
dense plover
So they locked it up
frigid umbra
Please let bfa be an old god exp... we really need one of those
dense plover
That’s what the titans do when something scares them
Lock it up
It is an old god expac
hollow dock
There isn't a timeline where BFA isn't an old god expac tbh
dense plover
For sure
jade basalt
His influence is still a thing to this day since the sha still exist, but I wouldn't say "he" holds a grasp on the world, since "he" is technically gone, if you know what I mean. Like how Sethe is dead, but his blood still is dangerous.
dense plover
Nzoth is heavily hinted at
hollow dock
if there is, truly that is the darkest timeline.
hollow dock
Right I getcha. The hand has gained sentience sorta and is dangerous but isnt Y'shaarj himself.
dense plover
Or island storyline
strange falcon
@jade basalt dont remind me of how we lost those majestic arakkoa for the handicapped ones we have now
jade basalt
@dense plover What's the "belly" thing ? Theory ?
hollow dock
thanks for the clarification. Now ot hope Honk reads over it.
dense plover
Well ghuun is a big worm
jade basalt
Yea it's more like an "echo" of Y'Shaarj of sorts, hard to describe.
dense plover
Expandable gut from what we have seen of various images and models
So my theory is that since ghuun is a corrupted titan construct
jade basalt
No I mean him putting the other Old Gods in his belly, that's just your theory right ? Cause I don't remember reading about this
dense plover
Originally the purpose was to eat away at the old gods
Since you can’t tear them out
hollow dock
Like a parasite.
hollow dock
A parasite that eats parasites
dense plover
But the old gods corrupted ghuun from the inside
jade basalt
ghuun is a corrupted titan construct
wait, I don't remember that either. Or are you confusing the corrupted titan construct that is to show up in a cinematic, with G'Huun himself ?
dense plover
A parasite in a parasite in a parasite
hollow dock
A parasites parasite.
dense plover
I thought it said ghuun - a corrupted titan construct
hollow dock
god parasites a weird word to say now.
strange falcon
might i mention how the guards inside uldir,looks extremely similar to the mogu?
jade basalt
No no
hollow dock
I thought I saw somewhere that Ghuun was made by the blood trolls. owo
jade basalt
I believe the "corrupted titan superconstruct" is supposed to be Tlaloc.
Taloc.
However it's spelled.
Last boss of Underrot
jade basalt
@hollow dock G'Huun was made by the Pantheon.
hollow dock
Ah.
jade basalt
We have written this so far. https://wow.gamepedia.com/G'huun
hollow dock
Gah he's so disgusting
jade basalt
Though we're not too keen on using alpha information which is why the BFA section isn't that filled.
hollow dock
Triggering my nausa of looking at holes.
"Trivia
In Battle for Azeroth's alpha, G'huun is referred to multiple times as an old god. That would mean that the titans inadvertently created a fifth old god by experimenting on the others. "
Where was this mentioned? O.o
jade basalt
It's mentioned by the Horde and goblins and Zandalari a few times
And with the last build they changed "old god" to "Old God"
Though it's still alpha so, who knows.
It's odd because it wasn't even mentioned once at Blizzcon or any other interview that he was an old god
Just a creature created by the titans by experimenting on the old gods
dense plover
as i was saying though
ghuun is locked inside that titan structure in nazmir
3 seal hold it in
2 are broken
one in nazmir, one in voldun
the palace in zuldazar is the third
dense plover
from them, paths lead off towards each of the major continents, and possibly the locations of major titan facilities
the one in voldun seems to be somewhat angled towards silithus/uldum is you take into account the shifting of zandalar with the cataclysm
the one in zuldazar probably was pointed towards pandaria
and somehow the one in nazmir points towards the eastern kingdoms, or maybe even the broken shore, considering a titan facility was there
in all likelihood, ghuun was an experiment to create something to remove the old gods
and considering its form, probably through consuming and storing it inside them
they would then remove ghuun
and problem solved
hollow dock
Like a big ol' vacuum cleaner
dense plover
the issue lies in the fact that ghuun clearly didnt work
got a mind of its own
and has been whispering to the blood trolls
strange falcon
well technically the lower part of the tomb of sargeras was a titan facility
so it wouldnt be wrong
hollow dock
which makes me think they might have used old god blood in the experiments.
dense plover
this has allowed two of the three seals to be broken
that is entirely possible
they gave it blood
it seemed to work
it went rogue
they locked it up
because thats how you solve problems as a titan
lock it up
hollow dock
It gained Sentience. The machine tried to turn on its creator.
strange falcon
yup
dense plover
pretty much
and now our job is to stop it
final boss of the first raid, probably
so we probably do
BUT
as has been pointed out, Zul supports Hakkar, and the old gods
his coup is most likely an attempt to break the third seal
which maybe succeeds and is why we go to uldir
hollow dock
We should embrace it :v allow it to devour N'zoth and the other remaining old gods. Let them conquer the world in a new massive worm that brings out the end of times! JORMUNGADR!
dense plover
but after that
Zul fails because ghuun is defeated
so he probably wants to free nzoth
but the best way to do that isnt on his own
cue my previous hakkar theory
hollow dock
An idea: what if people believe this is an avatar of N'zoth and thus refer to it as an Old God?
strange falcon
and says "ghuun was just a setback,mon,nzoth be the true plan"
dense plover
thats been my theory from the beginning
it isnt actually an old god
but it whispers like one
and probably calls itself one
hollow dock
A weak artifically created one that's been mistaken for the real thing.
dense plover
so people believe it
considering the blood trolls havent dealt with an actual old god
and the fact that ghuun could destroy the world on its own
hollow dock
its not like the people on Azeroth know what an old god actually looks like ortheir true size.
dense plover
exactly
hollow dock
they just know it corrupts and whispers.
dense plover
yep
it isnt an old god
they arent going to retcon that lore when they have been so specific
they created that old god map with this expac in mind
hollow dock
but people are led to believe it is because that information isnta vailable to them but it is to us.
dense plover
exactly
it creates an interesting story
while still having a credible threat
and it isnt impossible to defeat since it isnt an old god
this way you dont jump straight to the super unrealistic fight
hollow dock
and it finally makes a lesser known, and often just flat out ignored point. The world doesn't know what we do.
dense plover
its like how we worked up to fighting a weakened and corrupted titan with the help of titans
you dont start out there
you work your way up
hollow dock
Yup. Free them and then they aid you in the battle to come
dense plover
ghuun, azshara +- hakkar, and then nzoth
maybe another raid before that
im just hoping for a new quilboar dungeon
i love them so much
strange falcon
imo hakkar appears in the mythic only phase of ghuun
dense plover
maybe some aggamagon story
that wouldnt make much sense
hakkar needs to be summoned purposefully
jade basalt
The Nazmir disc-temple is called Naz'watha.
The Zuldazar one is Dazar'alor (it's also Rastakhan's palace and the Horde Embassy).
All three disc-temples point to a central location, which is the Underrot (and I presume, Uldir, which would be underground), also called Altar of Rot, and Heart of Darkness (different subzones as you fly over/around it). https://i.imgur.com/xlHiR4g.jpg
strange falcon
as i said before,imo the blood trolls summon hakkar,but he's all skeletal and weak
dense plover
thats what i was tlaking about
jade basalt
Picture of Uldir's inside by the way (unfinished). https://i.imgur.com/U25i8hR.png
dense plover
those are the 3 seals
strange falcon
and in mythic phase,he absorbs the blood from ghuun
dense plover
each seal temple also has a large road behind it
strange falcon
and we get to fight him again
dense plover
similar to the road in wyrmrest
hollow dock
Nah they aren't pulling another Cho'gall Dafire.
jade basalt
I think it's just the Nazmir one
dense plover
^
voldun has one
buried in the sand
you can see the bits as a shattered island to the south west
its a bit more obvious in game
hollow dock
A long 10 minute fight followed by a longer 10 minute fourth phase is unhealthy it turns out ;p
dense plover
and the only one im unsure of is zuldazar
but they could have built over that
considering zandalar is very old
or it could even be the basis for some of the roads there
but there are two large roads
hollow dock
If anything, that could happen if its like BoT and Hakkar's a mythic only fight, but they haven't done one of those since Heroic ToT.
dense plover
each in significantly different directions
yeah
mythic only phases with new npcs are very dead
they realized that putting lore behind mythic is bad
considering the small percentage of players that do it
and those guys dont neccesarily care about lore
jade basalt
As far as I can see it's only Nazmir that has one http://marlamin.com/minimaps/maps/8.0.1.26032/Zandalar.png
hollow dock
Hey now. The fatbois have been slowly starting to care about the story
jade basalt
It's called the "Sundered Span" btw (Nazmir's path of the titans-like road)
dense plover
zoom into the voldun corner
jade basalt
Wait are you talking about the roads between the disc-temples and Uldir ? Because I'm talking about the ones from the temples to the outside
dense plover
look see?
big path
heading out into the ocean
its been retrofitted into a dock
jade basalt
That's a harbor
dense plover
but its clearly part of the ruins surrounding the temple
also
above the dock
right next to the temple
strange falcon
@hollow dock well,maybe they could also pull a gul'dan,where you fight the same boss,it just changes
dense plover
see the rock that looks like a tetris piece?
strange falcon
in mythic
dense plover
its hard to see on the map, but covered in a layer of sand is a large road just like the one in nazmir
goes straight towards the dock
jade basalt
I'm talking about something like this. https://i.imgur.com/m5ifCkh.png
jade basalt
All those ruins in Vol'dun are a former troll city built around the central temple
jade basalt
Can you take a screen on the map I linked ?
dense plover
strange falcon
and farsight
jade basalt
I do have a sandbox
jade basalt
What, I don't see anything
dense plover
and as a result looks the same color
jade basalt
I could check later
dense plover
theres a big ass road
strange falcon
well,it could be like the "path of the titans" in wrat
strange falcon
where there's a giant road crossing a ton of zones
dense plover
again
totally unsure about zuldazar
thats my theory dafire
its the same road
it used to cross all of azeroth
then the sundering happened
hollow dock
Nah that's unfufilling for a Hakkar fight
dense plover
it was how the keepers moved between the different facilities
strange falcon
it was all across azeroth? i didnt know that
hollow dock
Well yea. How else do you think they got around?
strange falcon
they needed a road to go around? they couldnt just go to places normally
jade basalt
I went to the one in Nazmir, the Sundered Span it's called, it actually looks nothing like the Northrend one, it's entirely Troll architecture. However, who knows. Maybe it was built later by titan-forged with a different culture, like how the tol'vir are Egyptian and how Hezrel, Shavra and Bolcan are Incan.
hollow dock
You've seen the size of them. They're supposed to reconstruct azeroth not trample all over it.
strange falcon
maybe the molten span is related to the sundered span?
dense plover
one of the working theories ive read is that troll architecture is inspired by the structures in zandalar
not the other way around
and its possible that the corrupt titan construct was the one who made these facilities
they each seem to have a slightly different exterior flavor
so it might be personality based
i mean, look at odyn's structures
versus lokens
both titan
both different
in a way, odyns probably inspired vrykul architecture
jade basalt
@strange falcon Chronicle mentions roads connecting the Well of Eternity, which was surrounded by a bunch of titan artifacts (which is how the dark trolls discovered the name "Kalimdor") and tons of titan facilities and structures all around the world. You actually visit one of those in-game during the priest class mount questline, the Primordial Observatory, not far from the Maelstrom/former Well of Eternity.
jade basalt
Ulduar was actually built by Odyn, with the other keepers. A better example would be Uldum's Egyptian structures.
Though the funny thing is that Ra made both the Forge of Origination, which is Egyptian, and the Pandaria stuff, which are Chinese.
strange falcon
highkeeper ra 😄
jade basalt
One could argue that the tol'vir aiding him for the former influenced the design, while the mogu influenced the latter.
strange falcon
my ele sham knows all about it 😛
dense plover
maybe they got some input?
maybe he was in a different mood?
idk
i gotta go
constructive theorycrafting though
bbl
hollow dock
"NO I DONTWANT MORE BIRD PEOPLE. MAKE ME DOG PEOPLE STUFF." - Ra having a bad day inPandaria
solid sparrow
We are still missing ogres.
ruby prawn
They will never add ogres
solid sparrow
They must.
solid sparrow
Because they were part of the horde to begin with and I surely would play one.
ruby prawn
Full body rework