you're not
#beta-ptr-spoilers
true matrix
zinc sandal
T-T
meager warren
i stole the 5th spot 
true matrix
sorry mess, you weren't here in The Old Days
meager warren
The old days of Nifleheim
zinc sandal
You will regret this.
meager warren
i regret waking up this morning. that is all
true matrix
I regret my general state of existence
meager warren
same
true matrix
hey, I'm the horseman of depression here
meager warren
and i'm the one of Deliberate Trouble!
solid sparrow
Well, I'm the horseman of bad jokes.
jade basalt
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DV8SNHoVwAALYxL.jpg:large "Native to Draenor, these wolves are preferred by the Mag'har for their ferocity, loyalty, and for something to snuggle on those cool winter nights." Source: PH
zinc sandal
It's happening!
sand holly
git hype
languid yoke
oh shit
Keystone Affixes
Blight (New) - Damage and healing done increased when injured, and reduced when healthy.
sand holly
red tearstone ring, the affix
languid yoke
except it doesn't make you weaker if at full health
interesting affix though, curious to see how it plays
if it stays
agile token
So it's (kinda)confirmed
We're getting mag'har orcs as an allied race
There's a new mount called mag'har direwolf
"Native to Draenor, these wolves are preferred by the Mag'har for their ferocity, loyalty, and for something to snuggle on those cool winter nights."
meager warren
sounds cool, blizz.
But there's an error in it!
terse patrol
Weird that we got a datamined Gorgrond pic, but they call it a Mag’har direwolf.
meager warren
because Mag'har are originally from Draenor. Outland used to be Draenor
languid yoke
maybe draenor orcs are actually the Outland Mag'har
wait then gorgrond doesn't make sense nvm
meager warren
Draenor Brown Orcs are the Outland Mag'har.
They're literally the same thing.
Just alternate versions of each other
terse patrol
It means Uncorrupted, however, so they could just be rehashing it so they’re not just called “Orcs.”
jade basalt
From my source (don't have to believe me, take it or leave it)
"My internal source actually told me yesterday we would be getting non Garadar Mag'har, with clans that were not present among the Garadar Mag'har (Thunderlords, Blackrocks, Shadowmoons) among them. I wasn't sure if to share that, but now, it seems it might be true indeed."
"another group of our Mag'har, not part of the Horde, different clans, strong identity remained among them, their scenario set in the past to explain the origin."
meager warren
well, because the corrupted orcs are called "Orcs" and this way, it's more convenient, i guess
terse patrol
It just muddies the waters. But I think they’ll be AU Orcs, just called Mag’har to not confuse the plebians.
meager warren
the plebians will be confused regardless
terse patrol
Outland Orcs haven’t been relevant in years.
meager warren
also,
Zandalari Trolls and Dark Iron Dwarves haven't been relevant in years but we're getting that
no, i don't know exactly what you mean
jade basalt
rich apex
Someone in another channel suggested the Gorgrond map is something that takes place in the past as part of recruiting Outland orcs
Cause mag'har sure ain't mentioned anywhere in Warlords
Other Warlords related issues aside
meager warren
They're not mentioned obviously.
But did you not see any brown orcs in Warlords?
uncut vault
The map is probably like all the others, the place where we actually help out the allied race, with the starter zone being in the open world Draenor
meager warren
The brown orcs are the mag'har
rich apex
wat
uncut vault
Pretty sure they’re just making the old system achieves legacy
rich apex
Yes, there are brown orcs in Dreanor
But mag'har specifically refers to brown orcs of Outland, who are a lot different than all the green orcs
And red orcs
agile token
All first aid achievements have been moved to legacy and all first aid abillites and things have either been removed or moved to another proffession
meager warren
WoD is just a younger version of Outland
hollow dock
but that's not garunteed
meager warren
Mag'har = Brown Orcs
hollow dock
cuz. the sword you get from ZF got made legacy
like ages ago
and is still attainable
uncut vault
Maghar will probably still be the AU orcs, simply because the players know what maghar orcs implies more than draenor orcs.
terse patrol
tbh, Mag’har is likely just the word they’re using because they aren’t going to just label them ”orc” in the database.
So they’ll be labeled Maghar in the database, for namesake.
terse patrol
tbh
meager warren
why would they label them orc when "orc" is already used as a race-name and the two races are clearly different?
rich apex
(which still seems infitely easier from a writing perspective, given The Grom Question)
terse patrol
The Mag’har from Outland are few in number. Just seems weird to bring them back.
rich apex
Void elves
hollow dock
I mean. Representation of the racial numbers aren't really representitive of how many there actually are
and why not name them Draenor orcs
if they are just Draenor orcs
terse patrol
Correct. But uprezzing old BC textures to do a questline there is harder than just
Reusing Gorgrond assets.
hollow dock
Why not do both?
rich apex
It seems odd to tell the Iron Horde 'yeah, you were actually right to want to conquer and war, as long as you do it for us'
hollow dock
Reuse gorgrond and still use BC npcs
terse patrol
idk sylvanas is in charge @rich apex
rich apex
Truuuue
But I technically meant from a writer's perspective, not in character 😛
But that is fair
meager warren
Because "Draenor Orc" sounds odd.
And why not name the Highmountain Tauren and Thunder Bluff Tauren Azeorth Tauren?
That's the same thing
hollow dock
They did name the Highmountain Tauren, Highmountain Tauren
rich apex
They do need some kind of separate label
hollow dock
The Tauren don't get renamed because theyre the base race. same with orcs.
rich apex
Even if it is a bit weird when the quest giver goes 'Greetings, Lightforged draenei!'
hollow dock
Please tell me they do that andnot just call you 'Draenei'
terse patrol
I’m hoping for AU Orcs. Main universe Mag’har are sad hut dwellers in a broken Nagrand.
hollow dock
Sounds like they'd be right at home in the horde
jade basalt
In an effort to clarify the lore,
- Tauren have been renamed Mulgore Tauren
- Orcs have been renamed Draenor Orcs
- Humans have been renamed Stormwind Humans
Allowing us to add the following Allied Races ™,
- Highmountain Tauren
- Outland Orcs
- Kul Tiras Humans
rich apex
They do call you Lightforged draenei
Because that's your racial label
And the NPC is set to say 'Greetings [race]'
jade basalt
You're right.
Draenei > Exodar Draenei
-> Lightforged Draenei
hollow dock
I actually am going to level a Lightforged then
uncut vault
The ogres in duskwood yell “ME SMASH Lightforged draenei!”
hollow dock
That'll give me endless entertainment
rich apex
I was just about to say that XD
hollow dock
I just imagine the normal Ogre voice and then going to like. Microsoft Samsvoice as they say the allied races longer names
jade basalt
New class a bilities, a half-Hati and a sort of Rift Portal for hunters & warlocks respectively https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/282770114724495360/413083290875199490/Untitled.png https://i.imgur.com/mfyXSox.png
And Demon Commander ability for locks https://gyazo.com/f0055f4b86b0fc7e956ba44531662dc9
uncut vault
I thought you meant hunters were getting a rift portal for a sec and I was very excited
hollow dock
Ey fuck off to anyone who said our hati petition wouldn't do squat
jade basalt
"Kalimdor Darkshore Phase", Teldrassil scenario probably https://i.imgur.com/h88jZvH.png
jade basalt
Yea there were already lines datamined about Sylvanas sending the other leaders to Darkshore, with Saurfang cutting through Felwood and surprising Malfurion from behind while the rest of the Horde came by sea and sandwich'd him
rich apex
True. Was just a curious thing that a lot of the Siege stuff had been datamined already, but not much from Teldrassil
Also in before Mal kicks the bucket there
hollow dock
So this invasion is Sylvanas' doing
rich apex
Saurfang going to meet Anduin like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g
(blizz plz tell us if she did or not already)
zinc sandal
I like where they’re going with Demonology
And I think they’re trying to make Mastery more important for SPriests
zinc sandal
^
hollow dock
I did see the mention of the felbats
Any other uncommon demons being thrown in there?
tropic trail
give them more permanent demon options aswell
zinc sandal
Demo will be the new Sargeras
dense plover
imp swarm
it finally makes implosion decent
assuming its on a different row
nvm
its fucking baseline!!!!
YES
maniacal laughter
zinc sandal
It says ‘Removed’
tropic trail
is that the talent that the one that spawns an imp every 10 secs?
dense plover
no
implosion used to suck your imps in and cause them to explode
now its a baseline ability called mastery
essentially wild imps just have a passive chance to explode when they time out
but they dont deal dmg
they decrease the cast time of soulfire by 75%
which is a meteor that summons imps
its so great
so many imps
dense plover
thank god
soul harvest is gone
im so sick of the - lets give every class a temporary empowerment ability
and bilescourge bombers is cool
that animation is probably badass af
dense plover
holy shit
Nether Portal
Tear open a portal to the Twisting Nether for 20 sec. Every time you spend Soul Shards, you will also command demons from the Nether to come out and fight for you.
that is cool AF
zinc sandal
Let’s see if Bellular makes a video about it soon
dense plover
probably
hollow dock
?
hollow dock
yea the blues on reddit said so :v
So wheres these n'zoth abilities
what are they, what do they do, etc etc etc. You can't just say they exist and give nothing else
rich apex
Apparently Wowhead can 😛
zinc sandal
They're on WoWhead
clever oriole
jade basalt
Yes
zinc sandal
I'm totally trying Demo. It looks like so much fun.
jade basalt
rich apex
Honorable is bashing someone's skull in yourself
Make sure their comrades see those brains splatter
jade basalt
- We're moving to Kalimdor, Lor'themar
- But, Sylvie, the Sunwell ?
- Take it with you
wild pewter
So I'm expecting Saurfang to betray Sylvanas, by how she treats him.
tulip sun
That is a big F U to horde players though, especially orcs
rich apex
Saurfang defects to the Alliance and recruits the Mag'har, the last honorable true orcs
polar mango
Fucking EVIL ass horde.
rich apex
Blizz just admits teh Horde are villains
zinc sandal
^
polar mango
What an evil bitch.
tulip sun
I honestly think Saurfang is not seeing the bigger picture
polar mango
I thought like it was gonna burn because of something that was half-assed like the elves did something first. This is outright 3rd Reich style shit.
Then again, this is also the plague girl.
I am not surprised.
rich apex
Well, bashing someone's skull open is super honorable
wild pewter
I would be stunned if Orcs joined the Alliance in any fashion, let alone Saurfang
wild pewter
I'm expecting a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" type deal
polar mango
Or Goblins for money.
So with Teldrassill burning how does that change the starting area and all that?
I don't even know what to think about this.
wild pewter
It will be phased for people who have done the content, lowbies won't be affected
zinc sandal
Phased
wild pewter
Like Theramore
zinc sandal
^
zinc sandal
Once it burns, probably.
polar mango
They will have to move the holiday locations lol
wild pewter
I expect they'll add a bronze dragonflight npc like in Silithus
polar mango
Just amazing though.
There can't be any justification for the burn unless the Night Elves did something first.
wild pewter
I'm hoping as part of the "total control" aspect that Gilneas comes into play somehow.
polar mango
I've never cared much about the changes in WoW but that one sits with me. Makes me actually hate the Horde.
wild pewter
Yeah I'm surprised they're going all out like that for the Horde
zinc sandal
As an RPer, my Nelf character had mostly remained neutral. But after this? Hell no. Death to the Horde.
polar mango
Fuck yeah!
I hope there is something there. ANYTHING to give even the slightest justification.
zinc sandal
This kinda makes me hope to see Elune do something again
Or maybe after it's all over
polar mango
She talks about War as if it's the only options but whines about being left alone in peace.
Man, this bitch off the chain.
wild pewter
I want to see the Nelves go on a War Path after this.
polar mango
Oh they will.
wild pewter
If the nelves just get forgotten about I will be really disappointed
polar mango
My Druid will not forget.
zinc sandal
Neither will my priest.
wild pewter
I like the small details you know? Would like to see npcs who have been displaced by the tragedy in SW or wherever
polar mango
She never talks about peace. Always war.
It's not even an option with her.
She is delirious if she thinks Kalimdor will be left alone by the Alliance. Jaina sure as hell ain't having that.
Theramore, Vale, now Teldrasill. Everywhere they go they destroy entire histories.
zinc sandal
They want war? We will give them war.
wild pewter
polar mango
Blight Throwers. Nasty.
She's back on that plague shit.
Lol, why is Kobolds and Catacombs and listed on the same page?
That's pretty random.
tulip sun
You guys seem to forget
Genn tried to assassinate her.
Her goblin miners were ruthlessly killed in Silithus
Should she just let that all go?
polar mango
I'm still pissed about the plague so she can suck it.
Genn had every reason to come after her.
ALSO, taking over Kalimindor isn't really 'revenge' on a personal level. What she's doing here seems over the top.
Desperate and evil.
zinc sandal
Genn disobeyed direct orders when he went after her.
He got LUCKY. Otherwise, he'd be in trouble.
clever ember
“The Horde's children, and their children's children, will curse our memories as they burn.
If life had any mercy at all, you and I would exist in peace for the rest of our days. We have both seen enough of war, but neither of us has seen the last of it.
The Horde and the Alliance have been at a stalemate. Both of our armies have been exhausted against the Legion.
But therein, I see an opportunity."
"We take this azerite and use it to conquer Kalimdor.
We build the greatest empire ever known; one that is untouchable against the Alliance.
With the seas parting our lands, rather than mere borders, we can live and prosper without conflict.
That is how you ensure the survival of the Horde for the next hundred years, $n."
She wants the horde to live In peace. By taking over the whole continent. The horde won’t have to worry about boarder wars with the alliance. They can be left alone to prosper in peace. At least that’s what I gather from the tidbit I just posted.
terse patrol
tbh guys
I think a lot of this is Blizzard memes
I called it memes as soon as I saw "The Void Elves... they just... their numbers are endless..."
It's a reference to the fact that everyone's playing a void elf.
terse patrol
This broadcast text was clearly inserted into the BFA Alpha just to fuck with people.
jade basalt
Other theory : its some designer's fan fiction
zinc sandal
Crazy theory: Bwonsamdi asked Vol'jin to make Sylvanas Warchief. He foresaw her death and wanted her soul. She's not a troll, but perhaps he feels like someone who spits on the face of death like she has (thrice) cannot go unpunished.
clever ember
Maybe
zinc sandal
It's somewhat unprobable, but it'd be kinda cool
jade basalt
I think that Bwonsamdi could have found better ways to kill her than by making her Warchief
clever ember
Isn’t there a prophecy that says her third death will basically pave the way for the void lords or something like that.
jade basalt
It's not about a modus operandi, more about efficience
tropic trail
we aren't sure if that refers to sylvanas per say
clever ember
Yeah
tropic trail
azeroth is a key candidate for that prophecy aswell
zinc sandal
Sylvanas has already died 3 times
clever ember
It’s her or Alleria.
tropic trail
since with the sundering, then the shattering, and now sargeras sword
jade basalt
Alleria said she feels like she already died two times
zinc sandal
What was that, Quiet? XD
clever ember
Ah I didn’t even think that Azeroth could be an option for that prophecy
zinc sandal
That mega typo
jade basalt
Yeah autocorrect doesn't like me much
tropic trail
yeah i saw that too lol
basically there's a number of things all of the prophecies from legion could be tho
clever ember
Hopefully BfA will tell us more
tropic trail
there's some more obvious ones tho, like "the king of diamonds has been made a pawn", but there's a good chance a few were thrown in just to confuse us and throw us off track
zinc sandal
There is some debate about the king of diamonds. Some people say it's Magni, others say it's Gallywix.
tropic trail
I can see magni, the heart of azeroth (the new necklace) might not be what we think it is
jade basalt
Maybe it's not really her heart, but her spleen or something
tropic trail
plot twist intensifies
zinc sandal
lol
glad ether
So based on that new text Saurfang isnt getting along too well with Sylvanas, might explain why upon being released he immediately demands to speak to Anduin
final vault
Has anyone new been invited since the first wave? 🤔
glad ether
We know draenor orcs will be an allied race, if Saurfang will be involved in recruiting them and he really has it out for Sylvanas, could the draenor orcs be an alliance allied race?
zinc sandal
Crazy theory #2: faction of orcs, and Saurfang, leave the Horde and join the Alliance.
Sylvanas' Horde has no honor.
glad ether
Yeah she straight up attacks Teldrassil just as part of her conquest of Kalimdor
They are really setting up the Horde as "bad guys" again
glad ether
Thats an edit im guessing? :o
rich apex
Yes
If this was datamined, you'd hear it from Wowhead
And everyoen else
Because every WoW forum/discord chat/guild would be on fire
glad ether
Was gonna say lol
zinc sandal
I'm calling at least a truce of sorts.
glad ether
Ngl i was hoping some 3rd party possibly working for the old gods had burned Teldrassil and framed the Horde to kick off a war
rich apex
It's still possible
tulip sun
I still support attacking teld o.o
hollow dock
sadly hordes just a bunch of honorless barbarians attacking the innocents.
hollow dock
Those miners are horde soldiers. Far from innocent.
hollow dock
Unless you're comparing those miners to the children and non-combatants in Teldrassil.
glad ether
Miners were likely mercs tbh
hollow dock
Gallywix employs any and all. They brought weapons for war. They got a war
tulip sun
Miners are non combatants vris. You seem to be ignoring everything the alliance has done
He'll, they tried to assinate s ylvanas. Until said otherwise, MINERS are civilians
hollow dock
Not my fault that alliance has only ever defended themselves or stopped evil from taking root.
tulip sun
You are too blind to see what stupid crap the alliance has done
hollow dock
So then the horde has been slaughtering the innocent miners of Venture Co. 🤔
glad ether
I do wonder if something else burned Teldrassil as or just before Sylvanas attacked it
tulip sun
That is a possibility Tyra, but it is obvious they attack at least darkshore.
polar mango
RIGHT. The ALLIANCE are the bad guys for DEFENDING their homes against people who constantly declare war on them.
And attack their cities.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
The invading ORCS aren't the bad guys.
The people use PLAGUE aren't the bad guys.
Please.
hollow dock
Someone tell formal theyre agreeing with me
clever ember
The Azerite could be corrupt. Bringing out the worse in Sylvanis and Anduin. I mean they are handling it before we purify the sword. So the old gods could be whispering to them.
polar mango
If Blizzard tried to make Horde and Alliance balanced in the War - they failed.
Horde is trippin'
glad ether
The alliance didnt kill them though, we did, and we are pretty much just mercs
tulip sun
I am talking about this war cloud, and that was a corrupt warchief we helped eliminate
polar mango
No I don't.
No one is innocent in war.
That's the shitty part of War.
But Horde? Come on. Now Teldrasill? Wtf.
Taking over Kalimindor? How many innocent lives will be lost.
Evil.
tulip sun
I am just trying to say the alliance has done things too recently.
glad ether
They are clearly setting up the Horde as the aggressors in BFA based on what we see so far, which is a shame
polar mango
Did the alliance NUKE a city?
hollow dock
Oh we're not denying it. But the horde are still very clearly worse.
polar mango
Did the Alliance destroy the Vale in Pandaria?
clever ember
We’ll find out more about that come the opening scenario for BfA.
tulip sun
There was a truce after pandaria.
hollow dock
very light truce that was hardly enforced
polar mango
Anduin is easily manipulated by Greymanes lust for revenge, I give you that. It's something we need to deal with.
Sorry, I hold grudges.
tulip sun
Alliance broke it after they attacked forsaken and goblins.
polar mango
Yall fucked up my Pandaland.
hollow dock
Not really.
tulip sun
I see it as justified.
hollow dock
The 'truce' was broken during the constant skirmishes over Ashran
polar mango
The Vale was justified?
tulip sun
Not the vale, lol
polar mango
Theramore?
tulip sun
We are talking bfa.
tulip sun
Your naming things garrosh did
polar mango
THE HORDE.
hollow dock
Theramore was the Horde while Garrosh was acting Warchief.
As was the Vale.
It was with the act of the vale that he left the horde and made his own
polar mango
You gotta take responsibility for your leadership.
That's like supporting Nazis after the fact because Hitler isn't in power anymore.
Wrong answer.
Horde should have been wiped from the planet.
hollow dock
probably not the best comparison formal
tulip sun
You all are clearly very alliance biased and too blind to have a discussion
hollow dock
You've yet to actually name something bad the alliance has done
glad ether
Also did you see the talk about Sylvanas and her new "Azerite weapon"? Sounds like she has already made Azerite into a WMD
zinc sandal
Kll them all.
polar mango
It means nothing but it's fun to play the role.
zinc sandal
N'Zoth will rule.
hollow dock
Yes horde and alliance
polar mango
eyeballs suspiciously
hollow dock
All yoru fighting only makes the true masters more powerful
polar mango
Honestly though I hope the burning of Teldrasill has any kind of justification because I hate to think that Blizzard is writing the horde into the 'evil side' this far.
I like the back and forth of it.
tulip sun
Cloud, your not even contributing to the current discussion...and there are two obvious things the alliance have done badly to the horde recently in legion.
hollow dock
The unwarrented attack on the Horde fleet whilst they were at war?
hollow dock
in all honesty had the horde had the common deceny to open a dialogue we'd be fine
polar mango
I never said Alliance were perfect, but you can't justify the stuff Horde have done and the people who choose to still follow that banner are just as guilty.
Once Garrosh nuked Theramore yall should have just disbanded and made a new group.
hollow dock
Sadly at the time, Garrosh controlled to much and was beloved by the largest race in the horde: The Orcs.
polar mango
If you don't think that the past expansions don't count towards what is going on in Legion or BFA then I mean, none of this works anyway becuase you're blanking out decades of history.
hollow dock
With control of the Korkron in the perfect Waffen SS fashion, no one could fight him without themselves dying to fast for nothing.
tulip sun
The alliance attacked without even trying to talk though
polar mango
Wot.
hollow dock
They were not.
tulip sun
Their warchief was stabbed
hollow dock
They were literally on the ridge right above the alliance forces.
polar mango
All I know is Jaina ain't letting that shit go, she's coming will full fury.
Better hope your Bloodlust is off CD.
tulip sun
Vris, your just trying to do what you stated a week ago, trying to get me mad like the troll you are.
glad ether
Tbf the Alliance didnt know that, and it was never explained
tulip sun
Alliance never tried to talk though
zinc sandal
Is it working? 😄
hollow dock
Neither did the horde.
tulip sun
I am about to just put those two on ignore lol
polar mango
I put him on ignore days ago.
hollow dock
Weeks*
tulip sun
Who?
polar mango
But yeah, I feel you Khamnin.
War is dirty, Alliance ain't perfect.
But it's tough to come back from that kind of attack.
And be all cool.
tulip sun
Cloud, who'd you put on ignore?
hollow dock
Me.
polar mango
Some virus dude.
tulip sun
Ah.
polar mango
Vris or whatever.
zinc sandal
lmao
tulip sun
Ya, he is arguing atm too
hollow dock
He made a pun, I made a very dry joke.
polar mango
I'm not even mad about Legion stuff, I totally get what happened on Broken Shore.
tulip sun
But I agree, those are hard to let go
polar mango
But I can't let the past go.
Especially Pandaria, URGH. That hurts my soul, brother.
Panda for life.
glad ether
I'd kinda like to see the Alliance get a little more brutal, the night elves especially after Teldrassil
polar mango
Oh I hope so.
hollow dock
In all fairness, the alliance hasn't done much to actually prevent the war coming
polar mango
I wanna see Night Elves lose their shit.
hollow dock
but the horde has done nothing but prod the sleeping giant
tulip sun
But genn attacked against orders, and during a burning legion invasion e.e
polar mango
Genn is a dick.,
polar mango
Need him gone.
tulip sun
I agree
hollow dock
We're all in agreement on that one
clever ember
We did rise up. Garry was mistreating all non orcs. Causing the darkspear to rebel against him. We also sided with the alliance to take him down and we helped sack orgrimmar to do so.
polar mango
Anduin is too malleable.
zinc sandal
You said it, Khamnin: against orders. Meaning, the Alliance had nothing to do with it.
polar mango
I'm terrified if Wrathion in the background doing stuff.
clever ember
So we’re not ALL bad.
polar mango
Anduin loves that guy.
hollow dock
Only after he released the heart of an old god
steel venture
polar mango
LOL
hollow dock
topkek
glad ether
Genn is a man with nothing to lose and sights on the person who took it all from him, it makes sense that he has such a desire
hollow dock
I perfectly understand Genn. He's still a detriment to any hopes at peace.
glad ether
Good point tbh, all this could change within a week
hollow dock
It is alpha tbh
zinc sandal
He should be punished for it, though.
hollow dock
Mhmm. its a little more grey than we want to believe.
steel venture
Entire zones and storylines can be completely redone before launch. Never trust what is found story-wise in development.
Azsuna was completely redone, for example.
polar mango
He totally should. The fact that Anduin is tight with Genn on that level is BS.
steel venture
You were supposed to be chasing after the Nightfallen and Runas was evil originally.
Before you helped the Blue Dragons.
polar mango
A good King is a King to all his people, not in favor of one.
zinc sandal
Tell Anduin that
hollow dock
Now Admiral admitted to us that she did shoot first, but we did abandon the alliance to lead our own campaign against the Legion.
polar mango
Wish I could.
tulip sun
Well, si 7, the elite alliance soldiers, also attacked her lol
hollow dock
So our words not really one to get trusted.
So that leaves Genn and the horde.
No alliance court would listen to their enemies as they'll always say theyre guilty
polar mango
So are they not giving us full details then? Is this like... a red herring?
hollow dock
You can't presume Genn guilty because that's unfair to him. With so few sources that aren't willing to stick out their necks, the actual story that anduin hears is definately going to get askewed
Not at all formal
this is what's known as development.
polar mango
Maybe messing with dataminers?
steel venture
This is entirely possible that there are lines intentionally being thrown in to throw off the dataminers.
hollow dock
In developmental stages of anyhting, everything is subject to change
polar mango
Indeed.
clever ember
We won’t know the full story until BfA goes live.
hollow dock
Pretty much.
steel venture
This wouldn't be the first time Blizzard has done it either.
polar mango
It DOES sound like old Sylvanas though.
steel venture
Hell, the "Void elves are endless" is a hell of a joke at the community.
polar mango
The one I remember from Wrath.
steel venture
Preorder numbers are INSANE and most of the alliance rn is making void elves
polar mango
Yeah, mine is 94.
steel venture
its one of those blatant joke-lines
hollow dock
When I get my time in, Im definately making a lightforged for the hilarity.
clever ember
Well the void that they gather their power from is endless too.
steel venture
TPAARTOS
glad ether
I do wonder if blizz is intentionally stirring up faction hatred so that we can go bfa all riled up just for the "surprise! You were both wrong all along, it was C'thulu who done did it!"
hollow dock
RAWR ME SMASH PUNY LIGHTFORGED DRAENEI
polar mango
I want to hate the Horde damnit.
steel venture
lady ashvane is an azshara worshipper
hollow dock
I mean
clever ember
I think the loghtforged scenario was my favorite. I was cracking up.
glad ether
The alliance is already 70% void elf
hollow dock
that's what they did in Pandaria
polar mango
Lol.
steel venture
zandalari are being assaulted by naga
steel venture
kul tirians are being assaulted by naga
polar mango
Smart move on their part.
steel venture
faceless are getting updated models
hollow dock
the faction war is useless filler for the rela juicy parts.
polar mango
"We can get people to buy all these race changes...and then race change AGAIN!"
steel venture
THERE ARE TENTACLE-FACED PRIESTS IN THE DUNGEON FOR KUL TIRAS.
zinc sandal
Black Empire yes pls Blizz ty.
steel venture
it is blatantly obvious that the expansion is going to be
"lol suprise it was the old gods all along"
clever ember
I’m not dropping money on any race changes until I get orcs and zandalari.
hollow dock
on reddit the Blizz mods are all saying its 100% just faction war.
steel venture
despite the datamining disproving them entirely
and it is LITERALLY the south seas expac
polar mango
I'm leveling my VE to get the heirlooms and then race changing my warlock.
steel venture
that we said was going to be old god as fuck
polar mango
I have no desire to redo legion lol
hollow dock
Its north
glad ether
Wonder if us void elves can submit early to our tentacle faced overlords so that we can get places of power in their new empire 
zinc sandal
^
polar mango
I know it's gong old god stuff but it better not be as stupid as that.
hollow dock
Shit I am a paladin and Im submitting to the Old gods
polar mango
That's just lazy.
zinc sandal
🐙 🦑
polar mango
Splatoon!
steel venture
BFA is literally MoP 2.0
hollow dock
I'll present my ashbringer, filled to the brim with Sargeras' essence, all the power I've been storing in it for N'zoth to feast upon
steel venture
thus far.
polar mango
Needs more pandas.
hollow dock
That's a good point Formal
We need a good story for Ji and Aysa already
stop sidelining them
theyre an adorable couple :v
steel venture
vulpera are the token cute race now.
glad ether
"N-N'zoth-sama... Y-yamete!!" - Void elves when the black empire rises again
zinc sandal
^
glad ether
glad ether
Anime is a sin
rich apex
You can't stop the signal
hollow dock
Anime was a mistake - Miyazaki the creator of Dark Souls
rich apex
EVE has better wars than WoW
hollow dock
Indeed.
Thousands upon thousands of dollars
all because someone misfired
or someone called someone elses mumfat
polar mango
Boring ones.
zinc sandal
Ohmygod
hollow dock
this is why weebs are illegal Mess
polar mango
Every time we try and have a WoW War some kind of other 'bad guy' steps in.
hollow dock
Yup
rich apex
Yep
polar mango
I realize they have to balance things but it just gets old.
rich apex
Welcome to the MMO format
polar mango
We never get conclusion or stories that stay around lol
rich apex
Can't tell the Horde 'sorry you guys lost and there was literally nothing you can do'
'reroll now because your main has been thrown into an internment camp'
glad ether
Can we just have the Zenedar nuke Org from Orbit then force the Horde to submit under the threat of glassing silvermoon next?
rich apex
No
zinc sandal
the Xenedar? The one that crashed?
polar mango
Wait, do we still have the SHIP?
glad ether
Yeah
hollow dock
We still have the Vindicaar yes.
glad ether
Oh that one
zinc sandal
Vindicaar, yes. Xenedar, no.
hollow dock
In which
glad ether
Spacegoat names, bleh
hollow dock
we're not allowed to use the Vindicaar
polar mango
Which one has the big lazer.
hollow dock
cuz then the war ends before its even begun
zinc sandal
^
hollow dock
Like what are the horde going to do to it?
rich apex
I mean
glad ether
But thats what theyd do
rich apex
Considering all the Vindicaar did was burn down a wall or two
glad ether
Literally
hollow dock
It also withstood constant bombardment fromt he Legions defense fleet,canlaunch an indeterminate amount of Warframes that all act like gundams
glad ether
"Give up or we orbital strike your rotting elf ass" sent via carrier pigeon
hollow dock
You can't nuke what's already been nuked Hyper
polar mango
Hmmmm.
Hopefully they destroy it or ground it in the opening.
I don't want that lose end floating around.
"Hey we can't reach this place!" "Why not just take the spaceship we have?"
hollow dock
It'll just float there offering 'support' like the Skyfire has done
glad ether
Nah, has to stay for the allied race hub
polar mango
They can phase it though.
rich apex
And presumably Turaloyn and Velen would think nuking a city full of civilians is bad
polar mango
The notion that we have a spaceship floating around is kinda weird.
Velen is changed though.
hollow dock
this is very true hyper
polar mango
He might not give a shit lol
hollow dock
but you dont have to nuke a city to end a war
The moment the horde marches
we pull back like 10 feet
nuke their forces
Donzo
rich apex
There is literally no way Velen is going to be okay with bombing innocent people
glad ether
Well yeah good point, the Alliance would never nuke and kill mostly innocents like that 
zinc sandal
Velen would not allow it.
glad ether
Imagine if Sylvanas had it though
zinc sandal
Nah
polar mango
Ooof.
hollow dock
but then again we're not talking about nuking Orgrimmar. In use of open combat, the Vindicaar has no equal the horde canuse
what do they have, eagles with cow riders?
zinc sandal
XD
hollow dock
bats with skeletons?
polar mango
Maybe they turn it into the Dance Studio.
Hey Velen, get your ass down here!
cuts a rug
tropic trail
weren't they fixing the exodar during legion aswell?
polar mango
Yup.
tropic trail
or did they scrap that infavor of the vindicaar
glad ether
Thrall would use his jesus powers to literally fly through space like superman and punch it out into dark space
hollow dock
Yea but then they abandoned that and reverse engineered half of it to make the Vindicaar
polar mango
Couldn't they transfer the power source to the Exodar?
zinc sandal
The Exodar is just a token city now. It'll never fly again.
tropic trail
not with that attitude
polar mango
8.2.5: Exodar is now a flying city.
We have 3 Dalarans now, don't assume anything lol.
zinc sandal
If the Horde does take Kalimdor, the Draenei will likely evacuate the Exodar and move to the Vindicaar.
hollow dock
Boros even tells us it'll never fly off. thats why they made the vindicaar in the first place.
theres only 1 dalaran and its been moved.
Blizzard just doesn't update phasing of old world zones
polar mango
I doubt the Night Elves will take this sitting down.
tropic trail
do you think the argent crusade supports the attack on undercity?
zinc sandal
That's why I said IF
hollow dock
I dont think the Crusade cares
glad ether
Well there is that dead high moutain npc
zinc sandal
Also, Formal, there's only 1 Dalaran
polar mango
That's a big-ass IF lol.
hollow dock
the Forsaken aren't the Scourge.
polar mango
....
tropic trail
they using the plague tho
hollow dock
Theyre using blight
polar mango
Yes I know it's just 1 but we have 3 in the sense that they moved it around.
hollow dock
there is a difference between that.
tropic trail
and it's questionable if the forsaken actually have free will
glad ether
The one who goes to test his skill in Ashenvale for the horde, and seeningly dies immediately
tropic trail
in silverpine, why are raised forsaken automatically loyal?
hollow dock
The blight and the plague act very differently as those that die to blight don't get back up.
zinc sandal
It isn't. They literally tried to establish a new government thinking Sylvanas abandoned them.
hollow dock
its a toss up Green on whether or not they do have free will
glad ether
I thought they formed that council because they didnt want to live forever as undead?
hollow dock
as seen in the starting area, they let 3 risen forsaken go
tropic trail
and sylvanas was away for awhile, so her control could have weakend
hollow dock
but on the warfronts theyre immediately turning on their friends and family
She doesn't have any actual control over the undead like Arthas did
the only reason Arthas had any control of the scourge is because of the Helm
tropic trail
weather they do or don't, I think it's a plot thread that should be explored
meager warren
so, weebs.
what'd i miss
hollow dock
Weebs being weebs
zinc sandal
^
hollow dock
the alliance and horde are shit but the horde is just more shit
that's about it really.
meager warren
are you talking about neutral factions again?
zinc sandal
The Horde's shitness will be immensely amplified if they get Vulpera
meager warren
hey, the horde and alliance are equally shit, tyvm
hollow dock
Im sorry I didn't know the alliance nuked a city.
meager warren
when was this?
tropic trail
southshore
hollow dock
small little event.
meager warren
you can't throw Garrosh at me
hollow dock
Blighting of South Shore
meager warren
Garrosh isn't relevant anymore
hollow dock
I can because he was still warchief
tropic trail
teldrassil
hollow dock
he's not now but his actions as warchief are still his actions as the hordes warchief
tropic trail
ashenvale
zinc sandal
Theramore, Vale, South Shore, ...
hollow dock
Its leaning very heavily that the horde did invade darkshore and did set fire to teldrassil
Golden took to twitter to brace us if this changes
but that's the information we have now
meager warren
well then, Arthas's actions as the Lich King were his actions as a Knight of the Alliance.
Boom
polar mango
No.
tropic trail
except no
zinc sandal
No
meager warren
yes
hollow dock
Not true, when hebecame the Lich King he was serving the Scourge
tropic trail
garrosh had the full support of the horde, arthas didn't
polar mango
The Horde followed Garrosh.
zinc sandal
Arthas left the Alliance, Garrosh didn't leave the Horde
hollow dock
He left the alliance the moment he killed Tereanes, his father.
meager warren
The horde was starting to realize how shitty Garrosh was
zinc sandal
^
meager warren
that's why "Hellscream's Horde" became a thing in Cata
hollow dock
They sat there and let it happen all the same.
polar mango
They took advantage of that shit and then he destroyed the VALE.
hollow dock
It wasn't a thing in cata
it was a thing at the end of mop
Which is when he broke away from the horde
tropic trail
they kinda tried to warn jaina about theramore, too bad garry had a back up plan
meager warren
they're on the docks when you get on the boat to Vashj'r
hollow dock
The KK? Garroshs' secret police?
polar mango
Horde banner is unredeemable.
hollow dock
irredemable*
meager warren
Alliance Banner is irredeemable as it's so boring
polar mango
Lame.
meager warren
like, they made a banner with a golden lion?
Of all the tropes
zinc sandal
Nice try, Vris
tropic trail
it's interesting because lions don't exist on easternkingdoms
hollow dock
The hordes commited countless attrocities against all peoples of Azeroth.
yea but the alliance is boring so theyre equals
polar mango
Lions are leaders. The Horde are bloodthirsty.
hollow dock
Well not true Green
clever ember
There is a lion in twilight highlands.
hollow dock
there is a lion in the Eastern Kingdoms
meager warren
a lion
tropic trail
really?
hollow dock
Simbas
clever ember
Yeah
hollow dock
Uldums real far away though
meager warren
so, a single lion.
That means the chances of anyone of significance finding that single lion is low af
zinc sandal
So?
tropic trail
a zone that couldn't be accessed for thousands of years
clever ember
He’s a rare that is pretty much just there for hunters to tame.
hollow dock
Yea pretty much
polar mango
You know what's rare? A Horde taking responsibility for their leadership.
meager warren
and, in other words, no lions in Eastern Kingdom.
Just a rare
clever ember
Aren’t there lions in badlands and in one of the dwarves areas too?
zinc sandal
lol
hollow dock
Yet
polar mango
I love this game. ❤
hollow dock
there is alion in the eastern kingdoms
tropic trail
thrall was an ok leader tbh, he generally didn't start any wars
polar mango
I gotta finish up Spider-man Homecoming though so I'll be back at it later. You lot are awesome, keep it up.
For the Alliance, yo. 😉
meager warren
a lion doesn't mean the Alliance's banner makes any more sense.
And besides, it's a rare which means it's not relevant in WoW lore.
So how would the Alliance have gotten their banner identity?
glad ether
Im sure that explorers would have seen Lions in Kalimdor then come back to the Eastern Kingdoms with documentation
Its kimda how we found alot of species irl
tropic trail
the lion was a thing before anyone knew what kalimdor was tho
meager warren
But lions are from Kalimdor, not Eastern Kingdoms
meager warren
sup, Peach
dense plover
Maybe you don't care if your people die so long as it is honorable, but to me, this Horde is worth saving. Anyone who disagrees does not deserve to stand among us.
So die your warrior's death, High Overlord Saurfang. It means little to me. Perhaps I will raise your broken body to serve me once more.
Or perhaps you will have a chance to say hello to your son.
meager warren
i think the Horde is worth saving but Sylv is worth killing
glad ether
Yeah if thats legit Saurfang is peacing out
tropic trail
that a line from sylvanas?
dense plover
Sylvanas is the one who says that yeah
dense plover
She is very warchief like
hollow dock
I love her as a villain
tropic trail
brown orcs alliance race confirmed?
hollow dock
she makes a great villain
meager warren
after we get rid of Sylvannas and Genn, the Horde and Alliance can be redeemed, imo
hollow dock
She just threated to kill Saurfang
dense plover
No she didnt
glad ether
Well, it would be a way to get orc model in the alliance, so sure
dense plover
She threatened to raise him
hollow dock
Or perhaps you will have a chance to say hello to your son.
Do you know what that means?
tropic trail
go to hell?
hollow dock
That he would DIE
meager warren
it means, once they die, off to see the son
tropic trail
isn't his son in hell since he was raised into undeath?
hollow dock
In helheim yes
glad ether
If Saurfang leaves the Horde, you prettu much just have Baine left who could lead
dense plover
Read it
meager warren
Helheim =/= Hell
hollow dock
They are the same. Illidan somehow got in there.
dense plover
But I’m saving the horde
tropic trail
yeah, legion kinda made me confused about death/the afterlife
zinc sandal
Only vrykul go to Helheim, that's the difference
hollow dock
that's pretty villainous to me.
meager warren
Vris, of all the things to get mad at Sylvannas for, you choose the least worst?
dense plover
But do not disobey me
meager warren
no, ur pissed
dense plover
It’s actually clear from the text further up that he is acting against her orders
glad ether
He probs dislikes her methods
dense plover
So honestly, the passive aggressive behavior towards him is warranted
He wants people to die fighting
hollow dock
Thats not very leaderlike
glad ether
Aka chemical weapons all day wooo
glad ether
Lets test out this new Azerite weapon too
clever ember
Hopefully Saurfang doesn’t betray us. It seems like he may. According to the intro scenario for horde.
dense plover
Blood elves don’t want to die
hollow dock
It was founded on Orc morales.
hollow dock
Well that's half true
glad ether
Then we go burn down more cities full of civilians
dense plover
And each warchief changes those rules
hollow dock
Undead do eventually want to die.
dense plover
Some of them
glad ether
Like the horde almost do to Stormwind in the BFA horde scenario
tropic trail
sounded like a good chunk of them
hollow dock
Considering they instilled a government to oppose Sylvanas
tropic trail
but yeah, so is saurfang defecting to the alliance?
hollow dock
nah
tropic trail
he clearly doesn't agree with sylvanas
hollow dock
he stays horde.
steel venture
"Lok'tar ogar! Victory or Death!"
It's 100% valid he'd rather try to get himself killed because he doesn't think Sylvanas is going to win.
hollow dock
We know this because he is with the horde to recruit for the zandalari. AT THE MOMENT
glad ether
He does demand to speak to Anduin and get escorted away by alliance troops right after the Horde break him out
clever ember
Well he got captured and is in the stormwind stockades. You rescue him and he demands to talk to Anduin. Next thing you know Anduin, Genn and Jaina are hunting you down.
hollow dock
But he does appear at the hordes side to recruit the zandalari
which is after all of this
rich apex
Boooo
tropic trail
we'll have to wait and see, and remember that all of this is still alpha
rich apex
Tinfoil theory debunked
hollow dock
Yup
hollow dock
That's what Im doing
clever ember
Does he? The video I watched didn’t show that since that zone wasn’t playable in the alpha.
steel venture
inb4 saurfang is old god corrupted and has been since he partook in the war against c'thun
tropic trail
I personally would like to see some freethinkers of each race defect
glad ether
But tinfoil theories are fun :P
tropic trail
instead of all orcs believing the same things and following blindly
or all night elves loving nature, and so forth
tropic trail
saurfang looks good in blue
clever ember
I doubt alliance will get the orcs though. It won’t make sense. Since the humans and orcs have always been at each others throats. They are he two key races in all these wars.
tropic trail
yeah, I doubt the orcs will join alliance, but it's fun to speculate the extremes
glad ether
Maybe afew too many screaming melting innocents eventually makes a vet like Saurfang realise hes the bad guy atm
clever ember
The orcs might rise up against sylvanas though.
hollow dock
Im doubtful but open to the idea of the savages being tamed to be properly civilized
introduce them to bar soap
clever ember
Orcs will never be tamed lol
glad ether
Can we atleast wash them first?
rich apex
N'zoth will interrupt before anyone can rise up against Sylvanas
clever ember
Probably
hollow dock
And thats when I revoke my blue colors and don purple
to serve this worlds true masters
tropic trail
the kirin tor?
glad ether
Thats a thought, between the Tauren, Undead, Orcs and Trolls Orgrimmar must stink
hollow dock
the old gods
meager warren
I think it would be a good business decision if they scrapped all the war, made pvp and starter factions entirely neutral, and made a universal language for all races
tropic trail
visiting blood elves wear nose plugs
clever ember
My Tauren and my orcs are very clean. Thank you! 😜
meager warren
more like butt plugs
zinc sandal
Stormwind probably stinks too
glad ether
Dont kinkshame in 2k18 dog ;)
tropic trail
yeah, the canals probably do
steel venture
the alliance has gnomes
the horde has goblins