wait why are people saying the lightforged warframe is 100s of dollars
#beta-ptr-spoilers
floral gyro
hollow dock
Owlcat isn't a mount.
floral gyro
its 500k gold right?
hollow dock
Cuz you're looking at the skin
meager warren
don't look alike at all
hollow dock
and nothing else
zinc sandal
Owlcat as in Priest mount
steel venture
priest mount is quillen
hollow dock
The skeleton that they place all the fanciness on is the same
steel venture
upright head, smooth flowing run.
zinc sandal
Nice
hollow dock
So yea. There are no unique mount skeletons in the game anymore.
zinc sandal
Smh bunch of cheapos
meager warren
how is "skeleton" different from "model" ?
steel venture
i think ... the shaman mount was the most recent unique mount in the game
100% new skeleton and model
hollow dock
Model is the skin included.
meager warren
...
steel venture
skeleton = animations
hollow dock
Skeleton is the base of a model.
steel venture
its the core rig
zinc sandal
Skeleton = form and animations
Model = texture, color, etc.
hollow dock
When you see the Warframe run, fly, even do its mountspecial
meager warren
so, lightforged is a uique skeleton and model, in that case
hollow dock
its the exact same animations as the Shredder
meager warren
my point still stands
hollow dock
As does mine
steel venture
it is a modified skeleton, but a unique model.
hollow dock
Yes because the skin gives that illusion.
steel venture
the sky golem literally has the same side-to-side flying animation.
it also can fly straight as well.
meager warren
how does the skin relate to it's flying?
hollow dock
Because of the extra animations the shredder has over the warframe
meager warren
ok
hollow dock
The shredders base skeleton and the warframes base skeleton are the same.
But the shredder hasextra animations tacked onto its armor to give it that cobbled together feel
Our points were never in contenstion arson. :v
zinc sandal
In what?
meager warren
maybe i was just confused.
i still don't see how skin = animation
hollow dock
Because the skin isnt the animations. The skeleton is. :v
jade basalt
The warframe does have different animations specially in flight, it's a unique model, but it uses a slightly modified sky reaver skeleton.
So it's not 'unique' as in brand new, it's a modified skeleton
uncut vault
modified skeleton is still the same skeleton
hollow dock
To my knowledge, it's just not constantly shaking like the shredder and ahnilliator
or however its spelt
jade basalt
@uncut vault By definition, no, but I'm actually on your side here.
@hollow dock Its also not as wobbly be it in flight or on the ground, and has additional animations
uncut vault
Oh I dont really have a side in this debate
hollow dock
When I think of a unique model, I do think of something like Invincible before all the other horse mounts camein
jade basalt
I meant that as in, we're agreeing @uncut vault
uncut vault
Im on the side of it doesnt really matter, and that the tomb stalker is different enough from the collectors mount to make it unique
jade basalt
Hmm I wasn't part of that discussion personally so I'll leave you guys discuss this
hollow dock
Still the same skeleton and IMO, that doesn't make it unique.
uncut vault
colors + bandages give it a more mummified look, where the collectors mount is a lot more regal and matches the heritage zandalari set
theyre the same skeleton and model
zinc sandal
Who cares? Warframe is pretty mount. Expensive, too.
uncut vault
but in the end, they match different things
its like complaining that its unfair that normal mode raiders get the same modeled gear as heroic raiders
the #aesthetic matters
hollow dock
Oh I dont care about that. I care about my mounts
polar mango
It obviously depends on who you're asking. 😉
meager warren
now they just need to make Mummy mogs for every class
hollow dock
So the Ethereal soul trade mog?
meager warren
wot
zinc sandal
Quick unrelated question: how much time between Draenei leaving Argus and now?
meager warren
137 years
polar mango
Not many, Anduin isn't that much older.
hollow dock
RotH labeled in the tens of thousands
zinc sandal
I’ll need to revisit Chronicles.
polar mango
Do we even know how 'long' we were on Argus?
hollow dock
Like velen is well over ten thousand years old. Last I checked anyways.
zinc sandal
You got it confused, Formal
meager warren
plot twist: we weren't on Argus
polar mango
Oh you mean the first time.
zinc sandal
I meant when Draenei fled Argus after Sargeras recruited them
polar mango
10k years?
polar mango
I thought it was like 10k years cause old boy was there.
zinc sandal
25k?
meager warren
25,000
polar mango
Which makes no sense to me.
steel venture
when we assault argus, we have not even surpassed a single year.
meager warren
i assume they mean Turalyon
hollow dock
Yea 25k sounds about right.
polar mango
Yeah.
steel venture
the time distortion that happens in the twisting nether doesn't occur to us in our assault of argus.
polar mango
Very spry for his age. 😄
uncut vault
in normal time, turalyon was only there for maybe two decades
steel venture
likely due to the fact that either: it's a blizzard oversight
or
the vindicaar is attuned to the nether and acts as a grounding point
hollow dock
Turalyon arrives there AFTER the Draenei left Outland
which is 25k years after they left Argus
uncut vault
the reason time doesnt distort during 7.3 is the same reason why time was lined up with WoD
portals create a stable connection
steel venture
turalyon and alleria are lost in time during the end of the second war
zinc sandal
25,000... So let’s assume that LFD spent all those 25K years in the Twisting Nether. If ~30 years in reality = 1,000 in the TN, Lightforged have been fighting for almost a million years.
hollow dock
so where did you see that Turalyon was there when Velenand the rest left?
zinc sandal
That’s a long ass fucking time.
uncut vault
keep in mind the time dilation changes based on where you are in the nether
gets worse the deeper you go
hollow dock
but none of this has to do with Argus yet
steel venture
which they likely would have to have though
hollow dock
because whenthe Draenei left argus
steel venture
given that they hunt demons.
hollow dock
it wasn't in the nether
uncut vault
turalyon had nothing to do with the exodus of the draenei from argus, he came into the picture of the Army like 20 years ago in our time
hollow dock
yea. So where was Formal getting that Turalyon was there when they left argus?
hollow dock
rough estimate. that is.
zinc sandal
If you think Velen deserves a break, imagine Lightforged.
rich apex
I assume the Lightforged are really, really robust, especially when Xera was, you know, alive
So if they could draw off Xera's lightiness
hollow dock
I still think watching your people get massacred twice is a near equivalent.
zinc sandal
I was mostly joking, but you’re right.
rich apex
Lightforged should be very, very salty at a lot of things right now
jade basalt
Though that's assuming they spent all their time in the Nether, when they probably just 'went in' for their guerilla strikes and then left again until the next move.
hollow dock
like how Shattrath in our timeline allows orcs in?
The audio drama does line up with that idea Quiet.
zinc sandal
Again, a very rough estimate, Quiet.
jade basalt
Time is also non-linear in the Nether, Turalyon and Alleria's first 500 years was about 15 years for us, and then their next 500 years was about 6 years for us. Something like that.
Yeah I get that, just adding information.
hollow dock
at least with argus neutralized times dialation in the nether should level out.
meager warren
@rich apex u telling me the lightforged AREN'T salty?
uncut vault
doesnt it get weirder since the beginning of their trip, time is shorter for them than it is on azeroth
a few days in the nether is weeks to months of building statues in stormwind
rich apex
I'd be pretty salty if the saviors of Azeroth ended up being the half assed attempt that it was, for a world that knew full well the Legion would return
Bonus points that one of their leaders vaporized my savior
(and no one does anything about it)
jade basalt
@hollow dock Nope, it's a property of the Nether itself, Argus is irrelevant in the equation. Plus Argus is still there so nothing changed.
hollow dock
I thought the dialation got worse the closer you got to argus?
zinc sandal
Argus is not the only planet in the Nether, though.
meager warren
no shit
zinc sandal
So it is not the sole cause of it.
hollow dock
which was to imply the idea that Argus the titan and the planet being used to revive demons at faster paces was the reason for that. At least, as I understood it.
jade basalt
Not really. We just know that Argus is 'deep inside the Nether', and so are many other things.
hollow dock
Argus is apparently onthe border of the twisting nether. according to wowpedia.
jade basalt
No, read the sentence fully.
zinc sandal
Shouldn’t we build a wall to keep it in there?
hollow dock
Since the Twisting Nether overlaps all realities and Argus is on the border of it, Argus is a special case. One can wonder how alternate Velen and his draenei fit into this.
that's the full sentence.
zinc sandal
🤔
jade basalt
The Illidan novel states that Argus is now "located on the brink between the Twisting Nether and the Great Dark Beyond".[19] A Thousand Years of War however states that "But Argus was within the Twisting Nether. Every enemy the army felled would stay down forever." and that Argus is "fully shrouded within the Nether".
meager warren
you seem to have confused the meaning of "sentence" with "sentences"
hollow dock
Yes. That's two different locations for argus to be
polar mango
Schrödinger's planet.
hollow dock
Illidans novel states the edge, Thousand Years of War states deep within.
meager warren
that's just Bliz retconning the lore again
hollow dock
to be fair, we dont know if the planets even travel naturally within the nether
jade basalt
I was the one who wrote those sentences in the article so I know. And the audio drama is more recent than the novel. Or Illidan didn't know better/was incorrect.
hollow dock
So thendid you write the trivia too?
jade basalt
Some of it yea
hollow dock
Then you've done a poor job of upkeeping it :v as it states the edge. Not deep within
polar mango
In 10 years when Chris Metzen comes back it will change again.
jade basalt
I said some of it, not all of it.
meager warren
no, keep Metzen away
meager warren
he's like Zack Snyder but for games
hollow dock
Without Metzen we wouldn't have this lore to complain about
meager warren
exactly
zinc sandal
And we all know how much you love to complain
meager warren
it's what you said
zinc sandal
It’s alright
hollow dock
because he wrote it in the first place
slate ingot
to be fair when they dont ever update any old content to keep it in the slight bit relevant
people do tend to complain with the lore
which is fair
meager warren
and also, to be fair, when people retcon lore that already existed beforehand into something else, that's something valid to complain about imo
slate ingot
Neptulon is a big example
meager warren
and Argus
hollow dock
IMO validity has nothing to do with complaining
jade basalt
Eh, it can be good sometimes. A lot of times. For example the entirety of the Broken Isles are a huge retcon.
slate ingot
sure it does, when complaints are for valid reasons
hollow dock
but people complain regardless of valid reasonor not
zinc sandal
^
hollow dock
which is why I say, validity has nothing to do with it
slate ingot
there is a difference between complaining for the hell of it and complaining with reason
jade basalt
Then the factor is not what is retconned or how, it's people's tastes
meager warren
validity has somethinjg to do with it when people do have valid reasons to complain
that's what i meant
hollow dock
For people to complain, there doesn't need to be a reason at all.:v
slate ingot
I honestly didnt finish the shaman campaign
because of the neptulon retcon and how massive that is
hollow dock
Last I heard they didn't retcon it as did a poor patchjob to it. As he was still captured by Ozumat and just escaped on his own.
meager warren
just gonna have to cringefest ur way through it, @slate ingot
hollow dock
and that's all we ever hear of it
slate ingot
It was a retcon, they scrapped the raid he was supposed to be saved in, and he magically is just there
jade basalt
There is no retcon
jade basalt
He was kidnapped by Ozumat, now he's back. They didn't explain how but there's no retcon or contradiction.
slate ingot
the raid was suppose to explain that via we save him
hollow dock
Yes
slate ingot
the neptulon story was butchered into oblivion
zinc sandal
It wasn’t a retcon. Just a story untold.
hollow dock
and it never happened
slate ingot
no way around it
meager warren
so, we saved Neptulon and somehow he's not able to appear ever again because of that? k
uncut vault
I just hope they have some relevance in BfA
hollow dock
and he appears whenever he wants
uncut vault
the elemental lords, that is
hollow dock
Yea
slate ingot
Its a poor hatch job of a fix
hollow dock
shitty writing
jade basalt
He was kidnapped.
Now he's back.
That's all. The raid was scrapped because it was unoriginal and uninteresting.
hollow dock
Saying exactly what I said Mana.
meager warren
Ozumat and the other old gods could have gotten tired of him and just let him go for the heck of it
slate ingot
that wasn't at all why abyssal maw was scrapped
jade basalt
Or he rekt Ozumat's face
hollow dock
Abyssal maw was scrapped because of time
jade basalt
Not just because of time. But also because it was unoriginal and uninteresting, and because Firelands was already going to be a thousand times better. This is all their own words.
slate ingot
no its not lmao
meager warren
clap track
jade basalt
Firelands had brand new assets and models and textures. Abyssal Maw would just re-use the dungeon assets and some stuff from Vash'jir. I am literally quoting the devs, don't say no.
They didn't know what to do with it.
So they scrapped it.
slate ingot
reasoning that for the time being Throne of the Tides is a good ending to the Vashj'ir storyline.
that is why they scrapped it besides time
dont pull shit out of your ass
meager warren
Vashj'r storyline is no longer relevant. As such, Bliz gets to bugger it as much as they want because they love torturing their fanbase
hollow dock
Guys quiet is a zealot of their own words, why do you guys fight em.
meager warren
ur a zealot too tho
hollow dock
I am
slate ingot
and besides if your cherry picking a blue post take the whole thing
dont pick what you want to try to feed people
jade basalt
When you quote the devs you are not pulling shit out of my ass.
hollow dock
Mhmm dat epeen
slate ingot
I feel like I should mention Abyssal Maw again. As with many cancelled features, it somehow took on a life of its own in the minds of players. Believe me, though -- you just don't cancel things that you think are going to be awesome. It was three bosses inside Nespirah, with no unique art. The reason it was originally appealing to us was because we had so many Vashj'ir assets that we could use. But by the time it was time to do the work, we felt like we (and many players) had Vashj'ir fatigue. Now don't get me wrong -- I loved Vashj'ir. I was an oceanographer, remember? Vashj'ir delivered on the promise of an underwater zone, but we feel like most players were ready to be done with it by the time they had quested through that. (Individuals will feel differently -- it's that diverse player base thing again.) Firelands received a lot of new art, from bosses to environments, and we just didn't feel like Abyssal Maw was going to compete. Who knows, though! We haven't totally given up on the idea of cool underwater experiences, so maybe there's potential we'd visit it again someday. (For my money, the zone I am personally saddest about cancelling is not Abyssal Maw; it was the Azjol-Nerub quest zone in Wrath of the Lich King.) You are literally cherry picking out of this quote
jade basalt
You are literally helping my case.
meager warren
which moderator are you?
which dev are you quoting?
even if you're quoting a dev, how is that relevant now, since the expac concerning Vashj'r is no longer relevant?
rich apex
Was anyone really clamoring for Neptulon's story tho
jade basalt
The reasons mentioned in that post are
- Vashir / water fatigue
- just 3 bosses with no unique art
- Firelands had a lot of new art and Abyssal Maw just couldn't compete
Which is literally what I said word for word.
rich apex
Of all the random characters
meager warren
People dodging the question and evading left and right and all over the damn place
zinc sandal
These guys don’t discuss, they argue and troll
hollow dock
yea pretty much Mess.
meager warren
well, my name is EdgyTroll
hollow dock
that is true, you give fair warning
meager warren
<3
zinc sandal
You’re my fav troll Arso
meager warren
ty
zinc sandal
pets
jade basalt
@EdgyTroll#9235 Manaless said the only reason Abyssal was scrapped was because of time. I said no, there was also this this and this. He said I was talking out of my ass, then copy pasted a dev post which literally said what I had stated.
zinc sandal
Great! Can we get over it now and move on to something that’s actually interesting?
meager warren
yea, i got that.
how does that answer my questions tho?
hollow dock
yea like the idea of how planets move in the twisting nether to possibly explain why we keep getting conflicting information
meager warren
Quiet, you can keep defending Bliz retconning lore as much as you want, but that doesn't mean they don't retcon
jade basalt
I never said that though. I just said sometimes retcons can also be good.
slate ingot
wonder if anything about hakkar has been datamined yet for BFA
meager warren
i don't see how they can be good, in any way
hollow dock
we never said they dont. We just pointed out that neptulon wasn't a retcon.
jade basalt
Cool.
meager warren
care to explain how?
jade basalt
Nope
meager warren
like i said, dodging the question
slate ingot
careful hes a mod on /r/wow
hollow dock
and an editor of wowpedia
hollow dock
he is the dad that'll get u banned
meager warren
I would figure out a way to make the new lore fit into the old lore without retconning old lore
hollow dock
even if its clearly inferior?
meager warren
yes
hollow dock
then you've made a bad business choice. enjoy your tank. :v
meager warren
everything is superior, imo to retcons
hey, it may be a bad choice but at least it's consistent
hollow dock
I'd rather have inconsistent good choices that keep people around than shitty consistent ideas that drive them away.
jade basalt
Without retcons you would not have gotten the Broken Isles at all, none of it. And you wouldn't have gotten neither Zandalar nor Kul Tiras like they are now.
hollow dock
Yea. But knaacks writing was never really retconned.
meager warren
well then
jade basalt
Well, depends on the novel.
meager warren
you're kinda helping my point, Vris
hollow dock
The only things getting retconned in terms of WoWs lore is stuff that doesn't fit with the direction of the story blizzard wants tog o.
Like the Eredar always being demons and corrupting Sargeras.
Its almost like as time passes, peoples ideas and tastes change and thus want to change their past stories in an effort to reflect that.
jade basalt
Bad example to be fair, because that was an unintentional retcon. Metzen literally forgot his lore and wrote a new back story for the Draenei.
But yeah. Direction, and mistakes.
zinc sandal
LMAO
hollow dock
Then how about the Dreadlords corrupting sargeras.
jade basalt
That is no longer the case either, but it was intentional.
hollow dock
yes I know. these are retcons Im pointing out that changed to better WoW's story
dry hatch
I thought the Dreadlords corrupting Sargeras was still in.
hollow dock
Nah.
dry hatch
Or being part of the reason.
hollow dock
That was retconned in Vol1 of Chronicles.
dry hatch
Lame.
jade basalt
Yeah it was changed, now Sargeras became a meanie because of the Void, he wants to kill all the world-souls and prevent the Void Lords' corruption of the universe
hollow dock
He's become the mirror that Illidan was becoming is the idea.
meager warren
holy shit, Quiet is a mod for /r/wow
hollow dock
good thing I dont have a reddit account
meager warren
meager warren
ye
some mods are ban-happy to people who so much as breathe in their direction tho
i got banned from a discord once for having a casual conversation with someone.
They thought i was harassing them but i was just being sarcastic
hollow dock
well its a good thing he's nota mod here.
meager warren
yep
jovial coral
Yeah we need a new classes that uses guns bows and wands
Are wands even in the lore?
hollow dock
Yes. Mostly for light magic like lighting street lamps
or used as a focus for more novice or smaller framed casters
jovial coral
Alright I'll be the first to predict an azerite wand
hollow dock
Honkerton I believe already covered Azerite weaponry
meager warren
A class that uses guns, bows, and wands, would just be hunter but instead of staffs, they'd use wands
jovial coral
They can figure something out
meager warren
how about a class that uses modern weapons instead?
jovial coral
Wdym
meager warren
like, machine guns, tommy guns, military knives, mechs?
subtle flower
I feel like that'd feel out of place.
jovial coral
Definitely OP
subtle flower
There's a difference between that and it being part of a class in terms of it meshing.
hollow dock
We can have flying fortresses with helicopters
but we can't have a clip based machine gun
ONLY MUSKETS
meager warren
ok then.
those mechs and helicopters from Avatar
subtle flower
You know what I want? My own little house. c:
meager warren
but not for a class. maybe as mounts?
subtle flower
Didn't the LFD bring a mecha mount?
true matrix
do you mean the good avatar or the forgettable avatar
subtle flower
I just call the former Atla because stupid james cameron confused everyone.
Did nobody tell him there was already a beloved franchise called Avatar?
true matrix
tfw you have the highest grossing movie of all time and no-one remembers the plot
subtle flower
HERETIC
true matrix
arson. bruh
meager warren
i mean, not like what they were using as host bodies were avatars or anything
the anime/ cartoon/ whatever should have had a different name
true matrix
it came first and had a more memorable story so
meager warren
nah
meager warren
"I'm the last airbender and i can't bend anything but people's loyalty!"
mighty fine plot, i must say. Mighty fine.
subtle flower
Then there's the hinduism definition "a manifestation of a deity or released soul in bodily form on earth; an incarnate divine teacher."
subtle flower
And a man replacing his dead twin brother. And tail sex.
It was pretty, but shallow.
true matrix
ATLA had some genuinely great depth and character development
hollow dock
R.I.P. Uncle Iroh
subtle flower
He did seem pretty happy in the spirit world though.
meager warren
@hollow dock the entire plot of Avatar is that humans are greedy assholes and care more about money than empathy, justice, and lovingkindness
they didn't give a shit about nature. they wanted resources beneath the nature
subtle flower
I didn't think they were arguing with you?
meager warren
but the blue people were in the way because they wanted to protect those resources and so
meager warren
smh, no
uncut vault
so a really obvious colonalism metaphor
subtle flower
You look like you're on the same page to me.
You're saying the same thing but describing it in different ways.
true matrix
colonialism: now with Blue Peopleâ„¢
meager warren
well, because one way is wrong and one is right
i just watched the movie this morning
true matrix
why? you could've watched something good instead
subtle flower
The plot is one used tons, I guess where it fell flat is it didn't have memorable characters to hold it up. Princess Mononoke has a very similar overall plot. But the characters are more memorable.
meager warren
well, excuse me for liking it
subtle flower
You're fine for liking it.
meager warren
that was to mei
subtle flower
You're just not allowed to like it better than Atla.
polar mango
I like the Money Pit. Is my answer to that statement. 😉
meager warren
wtf is Atla
subtle flower
What I have to call Avatar since james frogging cameron stole the name.
He couldn't have called it something else?!
meager warren
I only remember the idiot kid with the arrow on his face and the edgy scarface guy
and the blind girl
true matrix
princess mononoke is an incredible film, but then you can never really go wrong with ghibli
meager warren
no, because it was cringy
hollow dock
do remember
subtle flower
You're just digging yourself a deeper hole then.
hollow dock
he's an edgytroll
meager warren
^
hollow dock
everything is cringe to them :v
subtle flower
Except one of the most bland pieces of media ever.
meager warren
YOU TAKE THAT BACK
hollow dock
Avatar is pretty bland
true matrix
it was pretty bland, dude
meager warren
atla is pretty bland
true matrix
it really isn't. it's one of the most colorful and character-rich shows I've ever had the pleasure of watching.
meager warren
"Four elements govern the entire world. If anything happens to them, the world dies." Blah, blah. Trope.
hollow dock
That's not the trope at all
subtle flower
We watched both, so we're allowed to compare them.
meager warren
whatever.
It's pretty much the same, Vris
hollow dock
Governments are not the same to elemental powers.
meager warren
pfff
you know what i mean
subtle flower
The four elements don't govern the world even.
They're just elements.
They're important but I sure wouldn't say they govern everything.
hollow dock
Yea. the four nations just existed with each other, happening to use one element each.
Until the fire nation decided 'Hey. I want to pull a Germany'
meager warren
well obviously they don't govern like, politically.
But if shit happens to them, the world dies
It's a trope.
hollow dock
nope
subtle flower
Nope.
hollow dock
not even close onthat one
subtle flower
There's no magical crystals of the elements that'll cause an apocolypse if they're broken.
true matrix
infiltrating a country ruled by a corrupt government to find they've been feeding their children lies through the educational system seems like a pretty engaging plot point to me, and that's just one part of an episode.
subtle flower
Yeah they were totally North Korea there.
true matrix
but maybe that's just me
meager warren
i don't think i got that far, mei
subtle flower
And that's our point.
subtle flower
You have no right to pass judgement upon it.
meager warren
what, because i don't like it?
subtle flower
You didn't see everyone grow and mature, some people severely.
meager warren
Zuko was my favorite
subtle flower
No, because you probably half-watched like 5 episodes of the first two seasons, total.
meager warren
but he wasn't even that prominent in it
true matrix
oh hun
meager warren
scarface
true matrix
if only you'd watched more
subtle flower
It'd be cruel to spoil you on it.
true matrix
he has a HUGE arc
meager warren
can you stop sounding like a condescending brat, thanks
true matrix
but yes. it would be
subtle flower
Widly regarded as one of the best character arcs to ever grace tv.
polar mango
Question: Do the fire people actually burn things?
subtle flower
Yes.
meager warren
answer: no
true matrix
shit gets pretty dark
polar mango
The movie was lacking in all of that.
meager warren
yep. don't see a reason to continue watching that
subtle flower
THERE IS NO MOVIE
polar mango
lol
subtle flower
A CURSE UPON M NIGHT SHAMALAMADINGDONG
meager warren
who dat
polar mango
If I can't dismiss Star Wars Prequels, you don't get to dismiss the Avatar movie. XD
meager warren
^
subtle flower
I'm not saying you can't dismiss the prequels.
hollow dock
the issue is
subtle flower
Feel free, they're depressing.
meager warren
no.
don't dismiss anything that is canon
hollow dock
its not canon
subtle flower
It's not though?
hollow dock
is thepoint
hollow dock
Its plot did differ
subtle flower
If it were canon I'd have so much more to be pissed about.
But it's not, so it's just a disgrace to a beautiful piece of work.
meager warren
it seemed like it was canon to me
hollow dock
seeming like canon and actually being canon are 2 different things
subtle flower
Says the man who thinks Zuko isn't important.
meager warren
hey, i'll stop dissing atla when you stop dissing Avatar
subtle flower
I said it's blah.
meager warren
no
hollow dock
We said its bland. Which is true.
subtle flower
I'm not attacking it.
meager warren
you said, in other words, that it sucked
hollow dock
It's incredibly forgettable.
subtle flower
There's a massive difference between finding something bleh and bad.
true matrix
it just wasn't that memorable
hollow dock
For like 2 years after it released I actually forgot it existed then read they were doing avatar 2 and 3
andwas like
meager warren
subtle flower
I don't think anyone's said it's bad.
hollow dock
'Oh yea. Avatar happened.'
meager warren
wtf is that if not dissing it
subtle flower
It's not stand out.
meager warren
"oh it's forgettable"
great. For you it's forgettable
subtle flower
It's not terrible.
subtle flower
We just found it unimpressive, and we actually watched the whole thing.
meager warren
no. saying it's bland/ forgettable is just a polite way of saying it's shitty
subtle flower
You're calling something bad where you've only seen a fragment.
No, I literally mean bland.
If I wanted to call it terrible, I would.
hollow dock
that's not true. Bland just means its neutral. It's not good but its not bad.
We call The Last Airbender bad because it is
uncut vault
it took the interesting parts of the show and made it horrible.
hollow dock
its a terrible piece of media thatcompletely forgoes everything that made the cartoon so popular.
subtle flower
We think it's terrible, so we're calling it terrible. We think James Cameron's Avatar is just really meh, so that's what we're saying.
We found it unimpressive, NOT unpleasant.
meager warren
i couldn't force myself to watch the rest of atla because it started out so shitty
you know they have hook episodes for a reason, right?
hollow dock
And that's perfectly fine.
subtle flower
So you don't watch anything that doesn't have an awesome start?
hollow dock
but you dont get to judge it as we do.
hollow dock
Thats the literal definition of 'Judging a book by its cover'
meager warren
not really
subtle flower
Western television also tends to have awful AWFUL pilots.
meager warren
it looked cringey on the cover too but i passed that over.
I watched some of it anyway in spite
hollow dock
Everything is cringy except anything bland.
uncut vault
meager warren
Also, Vris.
"You're the chosen one" is a big trope in fiction
hollow dock
Because blandthings can't be cringy. there's nothing ot be cringy about when its just vanilla.
subtle flower
So you must only like the most vanilla pieces of media ever, because they start as boring as they end?
hollow dock
Yes it is.
meager warren
no
hollow dock
Who cares?
true matrix
oh yeah, this is the bfa channel. huh.
subtle flower
shhhhh
hollow dock
Who cares if its a lot of overused tropes?
meager warren
Prismuth cares apparently
subtle flower
I do?
meager warren
because that's literally all you have against Avatar
subtle flower
No?
hollow dock
What we have against avatar is that its BLAND
zinc sandal
@uncut vault Magnificent
hollow dock
the plot is BLAND. BORING.
subtle flower
Tropes are fine.
subtle flower
But you need to do interesting things with the tropes, and with the characters.
true matrix
tropes are tools, it's not about their presence but how they're utilised.
hollow dock
^
uncut vault
Zul seems to have a slightly changed walk animation
subtle flower
What matters is how you build it past that.
uncut vault
meager warren
yeah. and...
for you they're boring/ bland/ uninteresting/ not memorable
uncut vault
bit more upright, less arm swinging
subtle flower
The cloak anim is nice.
hollow dock
Yes because I am judging it
subtle flower
And we're allowed to judge it because we watched the whole thing
meager warren
i don't think this convo is going anywhere
zinc sandal
Niiice
hollow dock
I want that animation for the rp server I play on
true matrix
ooh, that looks good
hollow dock
Listen Arson, you can enjoy your movie. It can be your best experience ever. But dont judge something on a viewing of a few parts.
That is what meand Prismuth are saying
subtle flower
Mhm.
You can talk about how it's not your thing, or how it didn't pique your interest.
That's fine.
meager warren
i didn't judge Atla for the whole of it. I judged it for what i watched of it
subtle flower
And that's the problem.
meager warren
but yet you guys swoop to ad hominem
meager warren
welp. mb
subtle flower
Phrasing is important.
meager warren
i'm tired af and haven't had coffee in like, a month. Sue me
hollow dock
sues Arson
subtle flower
I certainly won't argue that it has it's cringy moments. A LOT of things do, come to think of it.
But as a whole, it is excellent.
true matrix
the cactus juice episode was fucking hilarious tho
hollow dock
Like. Up until they hit the Air temple
its pretty cringe
but almost everything after that is fantastic
subtle flower
Isn't the air temple the third episode?
meager warren
i'd probably give it another shot if it were on netflix but it's not. ;-;
hollow dock
heck even if you dont wanna watch it, Nostalgia Critic reviewed the entire series on his youtube channel
true matrix
aww
subtle flower
A lot of people who love it do agree that it was off to a weak start, but I'd rather something start off meh and get better and better than something starting out great and going out with a wimper.
It's on Amazon Instant Video, which comes with Prime.
meager warren
but need to pay for dat
subtle flower
Rewatched it with my mom a couple years ago and she got inspired to make a cosplay.
It's so good.
true matrix
are you saying you're not paying for netflix?
meager warren
touche
true matrix
I'm calling the FBI
meager warren
wot
hollow dock
My SO decided to be katara after I watched it with her.
subtle flower
I know it was on netflix for my rewatch before that, but it isn't anymore. Things are getting so annoyingly spread out.
true matrix
you're a... striminal
meager warren
mei, aren't you british
subtle flower
My mom decided to be Avatar Kiyoshi.
hollow dock
yea jesus
meager warren
same
hollow dock
its 6am for you isnt it?
true matrix
yes
subtle flower
My sleep schedule is kinda wonky since I'm getting over a cold.
meager warren
i woke up at like, 7-ish
true matrix
I have not slept yet
subtle flower
Or late, if you haven't gone to sleep yet.
meager warren
discourse about atla?
hollow dock
late night BFA chat
meager warren
o
subtle flower
bfatla chat*
meager warren
no
hollow dock
always an offtopic mess not suitable for kids under the age of 10
uncut vault
uncut vault
interesting custom zul anim
subtle flower
I'm going with Air guitar.
true matrix
I mean the expansion isn't even out yet so I'll reserve judgement on that
ANYWAY I need to sleep
subtle flower
They did get Christie Golden tho
uncut vault
hes just showing off his sick riffing skills to rastakhan
hollow dock
that looks like a modified worgen transformation
subtle flower
I've been told she's one of the absolute best novel writers for the series, and is now writing for the game.
So who knows.
hollow dock
Oh indeed.
true matrix
his crotch flap is going WILD
polar mango
Honest question: why is everyone so interested in ZTrolls as an allied race? The amount of hype over them is pretty extensive.
hollow dock
Zandalari trolls are the OG trolls
meager warren
because, straight backs
hollow dock
the oldest civilization on Azeroth
uncut vault
trolls are already a well liked race, trolls but not hunching like a moron?
subtle flower
Haven't they also been in the game for a long time, not just the lore?
hollow dock
Yup since Vanilla
polar mango
I mean that's cool, I just don't play Horde so I dunno.
subtle flower
The others are all newly introduced, yes?
uncut vault
the idea of regal trolls has interested people since vanilla
true matrix
bed time, g'night y'all, try not to commit a felony while I'm gone
polar mango
But people are LOVING them. Or at least the idea of them.
hollow dock
Well yea. Its a heavily requested thing of the community
uncut vault
its also the allied race with the most unique anims
polar mango
Ah.
meager warren
Z-trolls were the first race, from which all other (or most other) races came
subtle flower
If these have an old history, and the others are made for allied races, I can see why there'd be hype.
uncut vault
got a special troll rig unlike the other races
polar mango
Roger that. Thanks 😃
hollow dock
one of the first races*
uncut vault
tldr: combination of anims, lore, and aesthetic
polar mango
Alliance people seem to care more about pretty than 'lore.' Where as Horde are all about that story.
hollow dock
They weren't the absolute first. Tauren, Fish-people, Gnolls andsuch have been around just as long.
polar mango
I should roll a horde one day.
meager warren
Gnolls and fish-people are irellevent
hollow dock
Most of which was corrupted over by the Old Gods. The trolls were just the holdouts until the titans saved azeroth
meager warren
Didn't trolls come before tauren?
hollow dock
No one knows specfically.
meager warren
ah
subtle flower
I like both the pretty AND the lore about Draenei.
hollow dock
We just know that Tauren, Trolls, Gnolls, Furbolgs, and fish people were the original races of azeroth.
polar mango
Tauren are super awesome.
polar mango
Was the very first race I picked back in 200whatever and played for a day until my buddy rolled human.
subtle flower
I've done reading and I'm not seeing reasons for everything.
polar mango
After Pandaria I always felt that Tauren should be neutral.
meager warren
Sylvannas is Horde because undead.
Tauren are horde because trolls
meager warren
Orcs made undead originally, iirc
hollow dock
Nah
hollow dock
The Forsaken were made by the scourge
polar mango
That sounds like a great idea. 😃
subtle flower
And then we can work on protecting Azzy.
meager warren
The Forsaken came after the Scourge
hollow dock
the forsaken were made by the scourge
subtle flower
(Azzy is what I call Azeroth when I'm talking about it as a world-soul and not a planet)
polar mango
It makes sense that the two leaderships would be at each others throats while Azzy is bleeding out. Both leaders are not good leaders.
Sylvanas has tons of issues and Anduin is a dork.
meager warren
yes, but they're not the same.
Forsaken came after the Scourge
hollow dock
Like the only reason the Forsaken exists is because of Arthas andthe Scourge
subtle flower
Anduin just got here, he hasn't had a chance to do much yet, hasn't he?
meager warren
Sylvannas has 99 problems but Anduin ain't one
subtle flower
Like, Sylvanas got turned into an undead by Arthas, and killed Arthas. I got that. But then why the Horde? Her sisters aren't Horde. The town she died protecting wasn't Horde.
meager warren
because she was of the Silvermoon Rangers
subtle flower
It'd make a lot more sense if the Alliance is what made her a banshee.
meager warren
Silvermoon is Horde
polar mango
Ehhhhhhh I dunno. We'll have to see how he is in the game but he's still Greymane's little puppet and Greymane has some serious anger/revenge issues.
hollow dock
Again Pris
subtle flower
Wasn't it only Horde later though?
polar mango
Now consider the balance of that force when Jaina shows up and is all butthurt still.
hollow dock
Just so her andthe Forsaken could survive
meager warren
do you really think the Alliance is gonna tolerate a rotting army on their side?
polar mango
Anduin will either become an incredible leader or fall to the bad advise of his commanders.
hollow dock
that was the only reason Thrall let them in
subtle flower
I have hopes for him.
polar mango
Alliance tolerated DK's after they broke, so yeah.
meager warren
they'd be like "Nah, bitch. Get ur undead outta here. We need this land for Worgen breeding grounds"
hollow dock
Deathknights were special
Deathknights had a letter of introduction fromthe strongest paladin on azeroth
meager warren
Death Knights were more powerful than Forsaken
polar mango
I hope Anduin does well just because I am tired of folding the government up everytime a new expansion hits lol.
hollow dock
Varian evenflat out says 'If you didn't have this letter you'd be dead where you stand'
polar mango
Jokes aside, I expect Greymane to die.
meager warren
Varian coulda tried to kill us :khadgarface:
subtle flower
You know what i'm curious about? Sylvanas is undead. Sylvanas can't die. They Horde changes leaders a lot. She can't die for the horde to get a new leader. So what else could make her leave?
hollow dock
She can die techincally.
polar mango
She can totally die.
hollow dock
Her being undead has nothing to do with immortality.
The only reason she's still around is because of her Prime Valkyr batteries.
meager warren
it probably just makes her ridiculously long life like, a thousand years longer
hollow dock
She rots slowly thanks to magic, but she will eventually rot out of her body.
subtle flower
My understanding is she has tons and tons of 1-Ups.
polar mango
In WoW the 'mortals' are mortal because we live shorter lives, undead/undying/etc are all still capable but yeah they just have insane lifespans.
subtle flower
There's also her massive fanbase.
meager warren
there are still Valkyr left in Stormheim and Northrend
polar mango
Just like the "gods" we fight who can die.
meager warren
and there's Hela
hollow dock
Theyre not prime valkyr Edge
subtle flower
https://i.imgur.com/Rvom42A.jpg also Anduin is precious flower
hollow dock
Helya is dead
meager warren
prime shmime
subtle flower
Whenever I see this picture he's just so adorable
polar mango
lol
hollow dock
Only prime valkyre cantake her place in hell.
subtle flower
I WANT TO HUG HIM
polar mango
That cinematic is something else though.
meager warren
that is, until Bliz retcons it, Vris
polar mango
Just incredible.
hollow dock
And until then its fact
polar mango
Even though no one says "FOR THE ALLIANCE"
subtle flower
I've heard good things.
polar mango
I admit "For the Horde" sounds better.
meager warren
"Lok'tar OGAR!!"
subtle flower
Wasn't her saying For the Horde an important part of her arc?
subtle flower
Because people didn't trust her to lead?
meager warren
hey, blood elves ain't barbarians! Neither are trolls and tauren
orcs tho? and goblins? yes
hollow dock
Trolls are cannibals, Tauren literally live in huts, blood elves degraded themselves out of survival.
polar mango
I don't know Horde enough to know that and I am a bit behind on my Nobbel updates. XD
hollow dock
Barbariansthe lot of them
meager warren
no
polar mango
I honestly don't even understand the full difference between the scourage, the undead, and the forsaken. I just go with it.
hollow dock
Until you realize they war with each other constantly overpower.
polar mango
All rotting meat to me.
hollow dock
The scourge are mindless undeadcontrolled by the Lich King
meager warren
The Forsaken is Sylvannas's army. The Scourge is Arthas's army. The undead is all undead
polar mango
Except Illidan.
hollow dock
The Forsaken are undead whomfollow Sylvanas or their ownfree will
polar mango
He's up in space now?
hollow dock
the undead are just mindless zombies.
hollow dock
Like I said, mindless zombies.
polar mango
Is he just in an eternal battle with Sargaras now or what's up with that.
subtle flower
I wonder if there's a Who Wore it Better comic about Sylvanas and Alexstraza.
hollow dock
Being a bigot towards the horde like the barbarians they are?
polar mango
He pulled his blades out and was like "YEAH!" but then... nothing.
hollow dock
Yes there was.
polar mango
So is he just babysitting?
hollow dock
Yes pretty much formal
subtle flower
Since their outfit is the same aside from color.
meager warren
no. taking a small number of events or circumstances and extrapolating it the whole.
also known as misleading vividness
polar mango
I wonder if the pantheons will provide Illidan with food in space.
hollow dock
He doesnt need it
polar mango
I have important questions.
meager warren
well yeah but i wasn't doing that before
hollow dock
he stayed locked up for ten thousand years andstayed jacked
he's fine.
If you still haven't realized, I am a huge bigot to the horde. savagae barbarians andall.
meager warren
except, he gets to be beaten to shit by Sargeras for all eternity
subtle flower
I just want to get along.
meager warren
the other titans likely don't care about illidan
hollow dock
Horde attacked us first and have always underminded attempts at peace. there is no getting along withthem.
polar mango
That actually sounds like shit.
subtle flower
Neither me nor my Draenei have anything against any races, only individuals who commit atrocities.
subtle flower
Illidan is green horned guy with the mask, yeah?
meager warren
@hollow dock they attacked the alliance in like, Classic
Illidan is Demonhunter leader
polar mango
I am just curious what the hell the "Pantheons home" is all about. Where is Illidan in space and time? What's the deal with Sargaras? I mean, fuck.
hollow dock
Warcraft 1. Warcraft 2. Ever since they first stepped here they've done nothing but attack us.
meager warren
hey, you've also done nothing but attack us
hollow dock
It's near antorus and has been sealed off Formal
subtle flower
So, is it just the Orc's fault then?
meager warren
it goes both ways
meager warren
Vris. You know the story of how Gandhi pushed back the british?
subtle flower
Not the whole Horde, just the orcs?
polar mango
The movie told me the Horde are invaders from another land that become a home-grown terrorist group.
subtle flower
The orcs dragging everyone else in?
polar mango
To me the Horde will always be 'invaders.'
hollow dock
and that's great for ghandi to have done it non-violently
but the horde invaded us. slaughtered us. we fought back.
meager warren
The alliance could have done the same
subtle flower
I was a little freaked out when the Horde blew up a school.
hollow dock
There was no 'peaceful' resolution with those beasts.
subtle flower
I was doing a quest and they just straight up bombed a school.
meager warren
The Alliance was blowing up the Death Knight class hall during the Death Knight campaign. What'd they ever do to you?
subtle flower
Serve the Lich King?
meager warren
Vris, The Alliance is no better
hollow dock
I neversaid they were.
meager warren
...
hollow dock
I dontknow where you got that assumption
subtle flower
War is bad and everyone should stop.
meager warren
you've not said it directly but you implied it
polar mango
Alliance has their flaws but from a 'homeland' perspective, I don't blame Alliance for defending their home against the Horde invasion.
hollow dock
Not evenonce.
I've only ever said the horde are hut squatting barbarians
and that's it
meager warren
and the Alliance aren't?
polar mango
We might see it as 1000's of years later but it's still the same fight, arguably.
hollow dock
I never said they alliance are or aren't
subtle flower
From my reading, one Horde motivation is more resources for their families, but it sounds like that's gotten lost in the scuffle.
hollow dock
Im a bigot towards the horde. Doesn't mean I like the alliance. I just happen to hate the horde more.
meager warren
great job blaming one side of the conflict for something which the Alliance also participates in.
Makes you seem hypocritical
polar mango
It's all buried under their 'honor' bullshit.
subtle flower
Isn't one of the issues IU the Horde has with the Alliance is that the Alliance is racist?
hollow dock
I blame one but dont say the other is or isnt also to blame
how is that hypocritical?
polar mango
So many 'honorable rules' they must abide by but they break them all the time.
hollow dock
The horde first invaded Azeroth purely for war and bloodshed Pris.
They initiated a second war for losing the first and we started a third war to take back what they stole.
then garrosh happened and nothings been right since.
meager warren
because, by saying "I hate assholes of the Horde variety" instead of "I hate assholes of all stripes," that shows a bit of favoritism
polar mango
Alliance isn't racist, we have plenty of slightly browned Dwarves.
"I'm friends with plenty of Night Elves."
meager warren
and hypocrisy as well, i guess
subtle flower
I feel like a lot of people of both sides can agree "screw Garrosh"
hollow dock
again it doesn't as I am only everspeaking of 1 side
meager warren
yet both sides commit the same shit
polar mango
Well, it's complicated when it's your homeland. Your dad can be an asshole but if someone tried to invade his home and take it - you would protect him. In theory.
hollow dock
And
polar mango
Like how families fight.
meager warren
my point still stands
polar mango
But don't step in the middle.
Horde kinda stepped in the middle.
And kept stepping.
hollow dock
What point? that I should call out the alliance for nearly commiting genocide?
subtle flower
I just wanna know how there's neutral factions but we can't join them.
hollow dock
When I will just call out the horde for actually commiting genocide
polar mango
Now there is an idea.
meager warren
that, instead of only blaming the Horde for something, you should blame the Alliance for it as well
polar mango
Non-combat cultural based class.
subtle flower
There's alll these neutral factions, but we can't choose to be part of them.
hollow dock
Why should I bother? Hordes done far worse andI never had brought up the alliance in a conversation about the horde.
meager warren
I'm not sure how the alliance didn't commit genocide
polar mango
Just run around the world doing diplomacy missions.
subtle flower
Like, I wanna go around helping all these neutral groups trying to make the world a better place, not take part in a pointless war.
hollow dock
Name 1 instance in which the alliance actually methodically attempted to wipe out a race? Kul'tiras did when it seperated from the alliance.
polar mango
That would be kinda awesome if you looked at it from the lore perspective. Like how AC: Origins is doing the full "educational only" game mode.
meager warren
It responded to violence with violence when the Horde invaded
meager warren
yes it is
polar mango
Do one for WoW where you just traverse the land with Lorewalker Cho or something and learn about everything.
hollow dock
No it isnt
subtle flower
I like the random little quests helping people out.
meager warren
yes it is
hollow dock
you really dont know genocide then
Genocide is what the Horde did to the Draenei
what it tried to do to the Humans
subtle flower
Wait, there's plenty of Draenei
meager warren
senseless violence is senseless violence
polar mango
World of Lorecraft would be a sweet thing.
subtle flower
When did we get genocided?
hollow dock
Sensless Violence is not genocide.
On Draenor Prismuth, when the Horde first rose to power do you know what its first course of action was?
meager warren
that was them defending their land
hollow dock
Complete genocide of the draenei race. Thankfully they didn't succeed in getting all of them
The orcs wiping out the draenei, their trading partners for thousands of years that have not attacked them in the slightest is not protecting your lands
You see a bit of this inthe WoD intro where the orcs are shoving the draenei into the soulwells of the dark portal.
Men, women, even children.
meager warren
In vol 2, the Draenei were a recent addition to Draenor
hollow dock
In Goldens book, Rise of the Horde, the Draenei have been on Draenor for quite sometime.
meager warren
o
subtle flower
My knowledge on old Draenei history is a bit limited. Draenei are from Argus, and have been fleeing from the Burning Legion for thousands of years. At one point Sargeras tried to make some sort of deal with Velen, and Velen said no and was like "no I'm out". And then something happened that turned the ones that didn't go with Velen into Eredar. I think we were on Draenor more recently, until we had to run from the legion again and the Exodar crashed on Azeroth.
hollow dock
Sort of.
The Draenei were originally the Eredar that hailed fromArgus. Sargeras approached Velen, Kil'jaeden and Archimonde with the offer to join, Velen didn't accept and fled with the Naaru. He named his people the Draenei 'The Exiles' in eredun. They kept fleeing and hiding from Kil'jaeden until arriving to Draenor where one of their ships crashes into one of the mountains, Osu'gun. The Draenei reside on draenor for thousands of years, even trading with the orcs from time to time but mostly keeping to themselves until Kil'jaeden discovers them. He uses the Orcs to band together, makes them wipe out the Draenei then drink demons blood for the final push. Velen and the rest have fledby this point.
Somewhere ontheir trek in the Nether, the blood elves found their way onto the Exodar andmake it crash onto Azeroth andsteal the other Naaru ships likeTempest Keep, The Botanica, and two others.
subtle flower
I remember super early on, in the Draenei starting area, a Night Elf was a little afraid because I looked like an Eredar. So it turns out that's because I am. Oh dear.
hollow dock
Yup.
You look just like the burning legion agents because, you are of the same race but not fel corrupted.
subtle flower
There's such an absurd amount of lore, I don't mind getting some from outside sources because it's really confusing coming into it at this point.
IIRC Satyrs are fel-corrupted Night Elves.
hollow dock
I suggest looking up Nobbel on youtube. He covers a lot of the lore in digestable videos.
Yup! The Satyrs first came from the Highborne-Kaldorei that sided with the Legion.
polar mango
Well the Lore in a game like this can't be taken seriously when the people who maintain it don't themselves.
meager warren
no, DHs are fel-corrupted Night Elves.
Satyrs are something else that are somehow also fel-corrupted nelfs
polar mango
If I was Blizzard I would have hired a historian to manage this crap.
subtle flower
Aren't the Broken ALSO fel-corrupted Draenei?
hollow dock
Theres a difference between the fel ingested bythe DHs and the straight fel corruption the Saytrs get.
Sorta Pris.
meager warren
a historian would laugh at the shitty logic in this game
hollow dock
The Broken are mutated Draenei. Can be from fel, can be from radiation.
meager warren
hate to imagine, Prismuth
subtle flower
It might give them a mental breakdown.
hollow dock
They've lost the light and so cannotheal.
meager warren
what cannot heal, Vris, is any historian that knows how bad WoW lore is