^
#classic-wow
fair karma
tribal hemlock
tbh we all know whats going on with classic.
blizzard's making a clear point with all the suggestions of a
"you think you do. but you don't."
Since there is an overwhelmingly large outcry of wanting changes to Vanilla.
Which is probably why they're not calling it "Vanilla" or "Legacy"
hollow junco
Mhm
idle kite
Only people that dont want to play vanilla want changes to it... so your point it not really valid. More like they thought that we didnt want it and now they see we actually do. Some people that want changes like the honor system know what it takes to beat it, but will still play if they dont change it and grind out the honor even if its crazy hard. Its more like he got fed up of that meme of him and is trying to be in the good graces of the player base again. And they pretty much already said it will be vanilla... with the good the bad and the down right anoying.
digital sluice
It’s going to be good for the long term of health of the game to get quality of life changes. I don’t want them right away, but they’re probably going to happen.
bronze skiff
Id just like the option to play more than the 6 viable specs
There was one tank in vanilla
hollow junco
Bear was kinda up there.. just lacked cooldowns.
pliant shore
My druid had 3 spells. Rank 4 healing tough. Rebirth. Innervate.
maiden river
I'm a ret pally can't tell me what I can and cannot do
wooden niche
Bear tanks were quite good once Jindo the haxxer became a thing
Since bear hax immunity made him awesome tank for that fight
maiden river
Pally tankes are a thing and leveling as one isnt a big deal at max in order to be one you need certain gear.
I played on a private server for a while so I kinda learned that.
fickle drum
Private servers don't count since you can alter your stats/gear
wooden niche
Yeah I would imagine oficial blizz server would be quite different from privates
maiden river
True very true but as far as I played once more Paladin tanks can happen. Just gotta really want it.
Ret paladins also
wooden niche
I want it. I want all psec to be viable
maiden river
Welp then hope the buff seal of command some mroe!
idle kite
Why buff it? You can crit 2k to 2.5k with soc... you just need a good spec and to be aware of your procs.
Thats warr mortal strike lvl of damage
still rivet
soc in pvp at like lvl39 and 49 was fun
maiden river
It's a joke. I didnt really mean buff it cause I know how strong it was.
idle kite
Aa ok cool... people usually say buff palas... thought it was real.
civic steppe
Need to buff the tanking aspect of palls
And make every tank spec in pvp actually viable in pvp
including pallys
So.. buff.
maiden river
Yeah pally tanking buff would be nice or just make it a bit more useful in the sense of at least being able to have prot pallies tank raids
jaunty stump
Vanilla is vanilla.... class imbalances and all. If you want to tank, I suggest you learn to love warrior.
civic steppe
;-;
wooden niche
Hopefully they will change that
spice zinc
Hello
maiden river
Id like to see other tanks like bear tanks and stuff.. I love leveling as a prot pally when I get the talents and Id like to see it be as good as warrior or maybe not NEARLY as good.
polar forge
I mained a tankadin from BC onward
and I want classic to be classic. I realize that this is an unpopular opinion, but I want the original game back, the way it was
i want long quest chains to attune to raids and boring rep grinds and OMG how much runecloth do I need to get to exalted with Orgrimmar?
wooden niche
Runecloth turn in wasn't there at launch
polar forge
I miss that game.
wooden niche
I think back in the day they used chen's lost keg to get ogrimar rep
civic steppe
"Vanilla is vanilla" sounds like a shitty excuse for being compliant about class imbalance imo
maiden river
Agreed.. I dont see the issue of twinking some of the other classes that can tank. So that other classes like Druid and Paladin can be used for tanking.. I don't see the issue.
idle kite
Druids and paladins can be used for tanking... they are not the best tanks, but they can do the job as is. No point in rebalancing... the problem is player perception. Not all tanks need to be exactly same amount of good for specific things... palas are way better at adds tanking, the best actually... druids can tank but healers need to not sleep, and warrs are good at taunt encounters. You can bring one of each in a 40 man raid as least. But people think they cant posibly play with that kind of setup, why should the healers adjust to the type of tank... the problem is perception. You dont need them to be carbon copies to work. Thats the point of vanilla every class has its own thing.
Warrs in vanilla arent even tank spec most of the time, they just have a shield equiped as fury or arms with last stand.
#thunderfuryisapaladinweapon 😬
pliant shore
#sulphuronForTheMoonkins 😬
runic bloom
All wrong, it's a know fact all weapons are hunter weapons 😛
wooden path
#RockingAtieshAsARogue 😬
civic steppe
@idle kite That's all well and good but... class imbalances. They don't need to be carbon copies of each other. Just as long as they can perform more or less the same. That does not imply they need to be the same tho.
wooden niche
ME having fun is just as valid as their having fun. So I will push for something that maxmised my fps (fun per second) on classic servers. And for me that means more or less balanced specs.
hexed finch
fun per second tho
maiden river
I agree. I love paladins always have Im not a great healer never have been no matter how hard I try so being valued in a raid for something other then healing would be a bit nicer.
wooden niche
Also not having to wear cloth gear
fickle creek
@maiden river oh, you will be valued as a paladin without healing, you will be buffing the raid with 5 minute buffs individually and standing far away from the boss so you dont count as "in fight" and can rezz everybody
maiden river
Oh I know but I dont wanna sit and do that lol><
pliant shore
I don't understand the argument against balancing classes. If you don't play that spec it doesn't affect you. If you do, then it won't change the rotation or anything, you'll just do more damage/healing/surviving.
ruby wigeon
it's mostly a matter of purity that is to say, leaving the experience untouched
idle kite
The core point if vanilla was unbalanced classes. The rogue was designed to be best mellee dps... war to be a tank druid to the jack of all trades master of non, etc... thats how the game was designed to be... it was not seen as imbalance, it was a mandatory class penalty. Thats why you dont have all classes having the same capabilities regardless if they are within the same role. The balance and removal of class penalty as a design was removed in late tbc and wrath. So we are not at that point yet, to have specific rotations and class roll balance.
Wow i did a lot of misstyping and grammatical errors in that one... hate typing of the phone. I miss the buttons on a normal phone :)). how old am i :))
civic steppe
@idle kite @ruby wigeon Okay, but can you actually give a reason why you don't want class balance other than "Muhvanillaexperience" like Dafire said
idle kite
Besides the reasons i already gave... it would not be vanilla anymore... it would be like current wow going and doing project 60 with full list of skills... dont you want to see a mage go full frost grind setup and aoe grind 30 mobs at once while other classes are struguling with just 1 or2 mobs? Dont you want that class pride, that i can do this and you cant? Because the current game is very balanced it does not really matter what class you play... you will do the job great. Do you want to play the same thing as live? Whats the point of that? You would have what they called prestine realms before, not vanilla.
Did you play vanilla back in the day? Or at least on a pserver most recently? Maybe the question should be why do you think there should be balancing? I am going to play a ret pala when it is releases and even so i still dont want class balances.
ember wraith
I didn't play classic, but I did start in 2017. 
civic steppe
"dont you want to see a mage go full frost grind setup and aoe grind 30 mobs at once while other classes are [struggling] with just 1 [or 2] mobs?" There we go. You just proved my point.
The current classes are not balanced.
And to answer your question tho, no i do not want that.
maiden river
No one said it'd be adding a whole set of skills.. It'd just buff some tanking abilites a bit more. Thats basically it. No one is saying changing EVERYTHING.. And its clear it wont be vanilla... A lot of streamers and people are perfectly fine with updated models as well as update graphics.. So already wont be wow but its jut quality of life changes which noe one cares about that it'd make the game feel so much smoother. And to be honest Im looking forward to it.
I doubt the game will change far from what they are going for.. They want it to be exactly like classic but with a few changes so everything feels and works smooth.. Which honestly is great. I asked my dad who played Vanilla from the start and he said with all the changes I told him they might do for the classic changes and he said that sounds wonderful and that it honestly wont change to much.. Everything running smoothly would be nice. He also agreed with the minor tank changes so prot warrior wasn't the only good tank. But he said not to buff the other tank specs so they are on par with prot warriors but wants them to be able to tank things easier then they had been able to do so.
ruby wigeon
@AlexxCri @Interest Okay, but can you actually give a reason why you don't want class balance other than "Muhvanillaexperience" like Dafire said
I was just giving the reason I usually hear. I never said I was in support of that opinion.
too busy to address Alexx's arguments right now. I'll be back later - I have some choice things to say.
maiden river
Do et
fair karma
'choice things to say'
Woo boy
wooden niche
I think you greatly overestimating about how much "planning" went into things. Keep in mind things like spell power didn't exist for most of the vanila outside very few select items (some more wre added later in dire maul) and Int just gave you bigger mana pools but didn't actually make spells stronger. So as melee would become straonger and stronger with gear/weapon upgrades, casters fell further and further behind.
Some specs were outright useless (surv hunter comes to mind)
31 point surv hunter ability was lacerate, a melee applied bleed that did less daamge then rend, baseline warrior ability
idle kite
Well saying no to a mage aoe grind means you havent played vanilla or a pserver. But hey, we all choose what we want to play, no point in trying to convince anyone why vanilla was great. Those were my opinions on the matter. Please state your own thoughts on why it should change, its a nice discussion. As for the hybrid penalty and specific classes designed to be the specific rolls in the game, thats a real thing that was stated multiple times by the dev team, its not on opinion, its a fact.
wooden niche
The 10 year anniversary wolf thing that blizz sent me says otherwise. I never did aoe grind though, becasue I never found grinding to be fun. Closest it came to it was doing winterspring rep.
I never played private server that is true.
ruby wigeon
it would not be vanilla anymore... it would be like current wow going and doing project 60 with full list of skills.
If the OSRS player count statistics show anything, having a constantly updating legacy fork of a game would actually be pretty good for the community aspect of the game, which is the part people frequently seem to praise. (Source: https://i.imgur.com/parrLyh.png)
dont you want to see a mage go full frost grind setup and aoe grind 30 mobs at once while other classes are struguling with just 1 or2 mobs?
Other expansions had this sort of unique flavor as well. In fact, this one even has it to a degree. For example, Priests in general still struggle horrible with AoE and some specs like Affliction are god at AoE farming.
Dont you want that class pride, that i can do this and you cant?
There's always been a bit of differentiation between the classes (and specs) and what they "can and can't do." This sounds like someone who hasn't played WoW past Vanilla but to put it briefly, even when the classes got homogenized to hell in Cataclysm, each class still had a distinct mechanical quirk to it. Hunters were known for having massive amounts of utility but almost all of it was inferior to that of other classes. Mages have been known forever for having poor sustain and basically being a glass cannon. Warlocks are still the only class to actively summon and use Demons along with Shadowflame magic. Etc.
Because the current game is very balanced it does not really matter what class you play... you will do the job great.
This is a really bad argument because it assumes perfect balance makes class choice not matter. This is untrue because if anything it makes class choice matter more because players get to choose the style that fits them best since classes, if not just specs, play pretty differently and have differences in thematic. Much like with an ideal career choice, this results in a lot more happiness, which is especially a big deal if you're doing one of the more "thankless" roles in the game.
Do you want to play the same thing as live? Whats the point of that? You would have what they called prestine realms before, not vanilla.
Because a lot of Vanilla content was overwritten by Cataclysm content. Considering Cataclysm "old world" content has actually been available for longer now, that alone would be enough to create a desire to experience the old world as it was. Besides, the player would be actively leveling through it and finding out if the game was really as hard, charming, enjoyable, etc. as people claim it was. As someone who did experience the content when it was relatively "hard" I will just straight up say that no, I don't think it's as great as some of the legacy lovers think it was.
Did you play vanilla back in the day? Or at least on a pserver most recently? Maybe the question should be why do you think there should be balancing?
I played BC. I experienced Vanilla content at level though. I don't bother with private servers. As I said, balance, while likely imperfect no matter what, is important for providing choice in an environment where there's a shockingly scant amount of it (and if you want to play a suboptimal spec, you do you - I often play suboptimal specs because I enjoy the gameplay). Even Totalbiscuit, who has played WoW since "back in the day" straight up says this in his video on rune and talent systems (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5V1RwEnvGs)
I will close with this - you, like many legacy lovers I seem to have discussions with, really have no idea how the live game works at all. You seem to have interpreted changes to the game as so severely detrimental as to eliminate the possibility of having a sense of community or class/spec differentiation or challenge or whatever other talking point is used...or you heard from someone who made such misinterpretations. Either way, do your research.
idle kite
well your assesment is wrong. i have played since vanilla through out all the expansions, i have all classes at max lvl and geared, i have played both alliance and horde, pve and pvp(not highranking pvp though). and sorry xenon, i was refering to arsonite. classes currently are as close to perfect balance as possible(and yes it is impossible to achive exact balance). the classes have flaver currently and have actually gone back to the vanilla style somewhat to make them distinct, but you dont really have that class pride anymore... who cares if you are a rogue or a lock, if you dps you are good. i enjoyed legion very much, it's one of the best exp that wow has had in a while, and to point to your community comment... i have a stable guild with friendly people and i enjoy playing with them... and still the community is mostly limited to that, your guild, rarely you actually interact with other people in the open world, that's the differnece between older wow and current wow. still, vanilla is a different game, and that's why i want it the way it was. to replay that game that now i miss. but yeah... people have different tastes and likes, but having choises does not mean muddled ones. i would rather have the not enough quests to lvl to 60 then have a modified version of it that is totaly different. i would love it if they did a diablo style progress thourgh expansions system. you play vanilla as is, then tbc comes and you copy chars to tbc realm and vanilla is reset, then wrath and so on, thus everyone has choises to play what version of wow they like. still, good argument. i appreciet the discution. but i guess it's enough from me on this subject. good luck to you all. cya!
ruby wigeon
No kidding. I thought I was on the official forums for a second there..
rugged crane
my eyes kind of glazed over after "i have played since vanilla"
ruby wigeon
I'm tempted to tear this apart too but considering the formatting, I'll just say the implicit insecurity in the wall of text (seriously, the whole things off as a blustering defense) confirms my assessment more than it denies it.
wooden niche
All I can say that for me, the sessnece of classic is not class imbalance or game play goofiness but communites, no LFD etc etc which made things a pain to do but also allowed socialisation and friendship to build.
Not "omg paladins have more than one button to push every 6 seconds, classic WoW is ruined!"
ruby wigeon
i'd argue there's a lot of socialization tools in the current game - if anything, there's more opportunity but the attitude of gamers themselves have shifted.
wooden niche
Kinda? But it also doesn't help that queueing for LFD you basically treat other 4 folks as NPCs.
ruby wigeon
but that has more to do with player mentality
because the flipside of that is you get to meet 4 other people you normally wouldn't meet.
I've befriended a fair few people through LFD and, dare I say it, LFR. I also know my anecdote is rare since I've sat through some very anti-social matchmade groups.
Furthermore, Runescape has shown that turning back the clock doesn't fix the problem.
Therefore, I'm inclined to think there's something bigger at play than some systemic changes in a few games.
wooden path
If you guys so dare to God change a single thing about this game a lot of us fought 2 years for, I swear to fucking Christ...
Quality of life is good and reasonable, sure, but that’s not the Vanilla that anyone was hoping for. One beefed up with some nice increased power, class balance, and possibly even LFR?
Like, I’m sorry, how could anyone come up with the idea of tampering with the game we’ve fought so hard for? This amalgamation isn’t the game we played in 2004, and if you want something else, go back to live please.
Don’t disease this project too.
maiden river
Fix summoning stones. 😄
maiden river
I dont think thats an issue.
wooden path
Nah nah, most definitely not
maiden river
Got a 4 man group picking up a healer or tank maybe
Dont wanna spend another 30 minutes to get there.
I think thats a nice thing to have.
wooden path
Well no actually I thought summoning stones were the original LFG one release.
maiden river
See the first time I played was in Wrath
And I believed they worked then?
I can't remember as I was fairly young.
wooden path
Ye, the way they work today, yeah
You use them to summon
But I think you didn’t summon with them back then lol could be wrong
Didn’t play back before the change
maiden river
I played on a few private servers the last 2-3 years very casually and I know between 40-60 I wish I had the summoning stones to work.
maiden river
Same, but for sure I'd love to see that.
wooden path
Yeah, same here. Especially the first utilization of them.
maiden river
I mean, Im looking mostly for quality of life changes..
The summoning stone thing Id love.
wooden path
Hehe, I’m a lil bit triggered by those as you can see
maiden river
Thats one thing I'd like.
wooden path
Mostly because I knew that quality of life changes would lead to more quality of life changes and soon enough it wouldn’t be Vanilla anymore
maiden river
See if they don't do class changes.
Or
Not changes
But buffing abilities for other tanks like paladins and druids
Idc about anything else.
wooden path
Mmmm even then I don’t know
maiden river
Like I loved leveling as a 'ret' paladin.
It' was enjoyable and I love Seal of command
But I wanted to tank.
I've always wanted to do tank as a great thing evenin current wow im slowly getting into it more and more.
maiden river
And I love paladin tanking.
See thats why Im half hoping they just make prot tanking more valuable.
Pally prot tanking*
Cause I enjoy it and to me its a lot of fun.
I mean I can tank low level dungeons.
But most the time when I was forming groups I was forced to heal cause 'paladin'
wooden path
Yeeeeeee
maiden river
I despite everyones hate.
wooden path
I’m really just excited to get Vanilla over with and move to TBC.
maiden river
I loved bc.
wooden path
Oh well from 1-70 yeah it’s probably not fun but I like Outland leveling
maiden river
See, I like leveling in general.
So might be why I dont understand people.
Questing to me is fun.. Just getting to explore and learn about characters.
It's dumb but I like it.
wooden path
I mean
fair karma
I love story, so yes
wooden path
You won’t learn too much about characters in TBC lol
The lore was pretty tasteless
Illidan was a straight up baddy
fair karma
I did BC loremaster and still enjoyed it
maiden river
I love terro-...uh whats it called forest..
fair karma
Terokkar
maiden river
Yes Terokkar.
wooden path
Yeah, the questing there is fun
maiden river
I liked questing there.
wooden path
I enjoyed Shadowmoon Valley the most
maiden river
I liked just going to all the zones.
wooden path
Especially for that infamous Gorefiend helmet
maiden river
Given I did it on private servers..
wooden path
Even though I went engineering for the goggles
maiden river
But I still enjoyed it either way.
maiden river
Have a nice shower think about TBC in there.
wooden path
It’s the only thing on my mind hehe
maiden river
Hahah well have fun.
wooden path
You too. You guys figure out what’s best for Classic here.
maiden river
I can't be sure honestly. I didn't play it from the start to the end of it. I only played on the private servers and such up to Onyxia.. I But I was never able to raid on my paladin cause... I didnt wanna heal. I was only really willing to spend gold to change my spec for tanking or playing Ret even though it's not really considered a 'thing'.
ruby wigeon
If you guys so dare to God change a single thing about this game a lot of us fought 2 years for, I swear to fucking Christ...
I recommend you look at the playerbase statistics for OSRS that I linked above. Pretty darn likely things will change.
Stance means nothing in the face of hard data showing the effects of updates on a legacy game that people supposedly wanted to be untouched and pure.
maiden river
Are you talking to me or someone else?
ruby wigeon
To everyone who wants a "pure" game, pretty much.
The desire to or not is an opinion - one everyone is entitled to have. The results of adhering to it are fact.
rugged crane
I think most people who say they want vanilla don't really know what they're asking for
nostalgia is a hell of a vision-clouder
ruby wigeon
Eh there are people who want an untouched experience, rose-tinted glasses are not. As for whether they're articulate...well...there's a reason Autumn Elegy is often the target of huge portions of the OSRS community.
still rivet
im all for not changing it but im. interested in what they do change if they do
ruby wigeon
I think what'll happen is they use Jagex's playbook and fork the content updates.
And then they'll gradually push in QOL is the game actually gets popular, aka part of why Wrath had the highest active playerbase count. Not sure what comes after because there's not a lot of data on it that I'm aware of.
Also obligated to point out WoW was an "update" to Everquest and was meant to be a more casual, accessible game by comparison.
maiden river
I wonder how they plan to do it for the servers.
Are they gonna have a launcher for it.
Im assuming yes.. But Im curious about how they plan to do it if you have to pay another sub for it if you have to buy it again.
These are the things Im curious with it cause in a sense even though it is wow its another verison of it. So Im a bit worried with that or if they have said what is gonna happen with it.
ruby wigeon
I think Blizz will probably do a shared sub.
Has the benefit of bridging the two communities, which is desperately needed.
maiden river
Good.. Im hoping only 1 that'd be nice
civic steppe
What i can't seem to understand is why so many people seem to be afraid of change. Change is a good thing, people! Jfc.
Also, Thanks, @idle kite for your patronizing and underhanded comment to me in your last comment. And for the part that i didn't give a reason why i wouldn't want the class imbalance to stay the same? It's imbalanced. I.e, the classes are inherently not equal. Does that make sense?
Then for your dismissive and totally not arrogant goodbye to us at the end of a wall of text that definitely would have benefited from a TL;DR.
But yeah, i'm done arguing as well unless you want to have another go.
@idle kite Also, about my not playing in Classic. What business is that of yours? Are you trying to say you're better than me for no reason other than you've been playing longer than me? Nice.
idle kite
Sorry, i did not mean no be condescending, and no i dont think i am better. i was just pointing out that you did not have a first hand experince of vanilla, thus you dont really know what made it good or bad. Its like saying you hate/love beer, but never tried it yourself.
civic steppe
apology accepted. But, i respectfully disagree on your premise that one need experience something in the past before having to judge/ know about the atrocities of such thing in the future/ present.
i'll leave it at that and go to sleep. any response you formulate may or may not be noticed tomorrow. g'night
maiden river
So would you not want the summon stone to be fixed at all Alexx? Would you prefer it stay broken and just sitting there? Just curious not trying to be aggressive or anything just curious!
idle kite
well summoning stones were originally there as a meet here everyone so we go in together, so you would have to run to the instance and be open to possible pvp on the way or have a lock to summon, not for actually summoning people. but that's not really class balance, so i dont really mind if they change it to a later version of the sum stone system. quality of life stuff are ok with me, but not class balance.
things like the flight path orignal system is a must change system to the later version. so you dont need to fly to the closest point and after click on the next one and so on until you get to the other side of the continent. it needs to be like, you are in eastern plaguelands and want to go to booty bay you just have to one click on the end flight point and go there. i'm not the guy to say, if it's not 100% the same its a fail. that would be stupid. i am all for qol stuff changes, but if you change the classes it actually effects the overall game.
ruby wigeon
That brings up an interesting question
which version of each class and spec do people actually want then?
That even more of a conundrum than trying to find out what cutoff date to use to maximize supply to meet demand.
After all, throughout vanilla itself there were extensive changes to the classes.
...And I dunno about you, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to trust hundreds and thousands of people with questionable experience, massive biases, and so on to make that amalgamation of choices. I'd rather have Greg Ghostcrawler "I like to keep Hunter representation rates in Arena below 5%" Street making the decisions (and I main a Hunter).
idle kite
very true... but still overall the classes were never close to each other througout vanilla. ex: pala ret end tallent point being blessing of kings, thus having a mandatory ret pala in the raid group to 1.12 talents where bok was in prot tree and was ok to get as a healer spec. it changes the class a bit... but ret pala in both places were bellow a rogue/warr/mage/lock dps overall. i would like to see that progress through patches. but keep them distinct as they were. but they probably will not do that.
ex surv hunter in any patch was not "viable", it was playable.
keep it like that
same with arcane mage
but that's probably the most important and tough thing that blizz needs to make decisions on
ruby wigeon
I mean what you're basically asking for is "make each class provide unique utility"
Which...they have since forever.
Efficiencycrafters simply found ways to get around having to use them. All down to player mentality, once again.
As for imbalance, obviously there will be a distinct sense of spec imbalance, no matter what. If that's what's interesting, then heck live WoW offers that which I'm sure you're fully aware.
idle kite
well that's debatable... take current wow... people rank like sco, main tank of method, rank tank specs from best to worst even if they are very close to one another. back in vanilla it was more like this class can tank this one cant
ruby wigeon
back in vanilla it was more like this class can tank this one cant
You mean like now? There's 6 classes that have no defined tank role and get squished by bosses. Heck, there's even the weird quirky things players can do that can take the place of traditional tanking like in the past too.
idle kite
i like the part that you need to dig into the class to actually be able to play it to its fullest. not just have all the things available from the start. aka pala tanking can work, if you have the right gear and skill. but a warr will always be better then you
i guess... but the gaps between the classes were bigger then back in older versions of wow then current
but i see your point
were bigger in older*
ruby wigeon
Of this I am fairly aware. The problem is it is distinctly punishing. Whatever rewarding, enjoyable, unique, cool, etc aspect there is to it is overwritten by the fact people might just want to play X spec or class without having to deal with an elitist's diatribe about how trash they are for a character screen choice.
Unless that's supposed to be part of the fabled community I hear of because believe me, I saw plenty of that in BC.
idle kite
yeah, i think it is a community thing, kinda... ex: ret palas are bad as a dps class overall in the view of players, yet if you are a very good ret pala and put in the effort to get consumables and so on, you can give a mage/warr a run for their money... even maybe a bad rogue. thus people who see you will admire you, cuz the closed realm sytem will make the people know each other. that's the kind of class pride i meant before.
dont change the class to be good for everyones play style, keep them the way they are so you have that... that dude was awesome with x class, i want to try that class and be like that even if its hard.
ruby wigeon
You missed my point entirely...
My point was that enormous class imbalance actually encourages toxicity more than it does healthy community.
idle kite
ooo i see... well that's true
ruby wigeon
Look no further than how Overwatch treats players who main "garbage" heroes.
And I use that term loosely because all of the supposedly bad heroes are actually quite good.
ruby wigeon
If you're interested in the community aspect, then why not the other values of each class/spec? I remember Mages were valued for their conjurable food and drink. That's why we got tables. Healthstones? How about a Soulwell?
Those upgrades aren't necessarily but it certainly made it much more convenient to share class benefits with other players.
And each class/spec can, had, and have a fair few of those. That's why I liked the way things operated in Wrath....but I also know there was way too much bloat - too many variables to balance - things that could've been made sleeker to add more distinctions.
(Also, I'd rather not have a Wrath legacy server anyways. Otherwise we'll have a "patch 4.2.1.1581224309" server someday too.)
idle kite
hard to say... its a qol change that i like... but not sure about it.
it wont change the overall class
does not really have a negative point if changed the more i think about it.
yeah i see your point
ruby wigeon
Having a negative point is exactly what I want to avoid. There's no reason to intentionally put one in. The negative point is not having what other classes have as it is.
Like right now, as a Warlock, your tank pet is frail but the Hunter pet is robust. In exchange, the Warlock gets Healthstones and more utility tied to their pet. But then Hunters excel at dealing mobile damage from range. Mages, meanwhile, have a lot of reliable CC and biscuits. Balance Druids can provide Innervate to their healers and create a silencing zone. I could go on but the point stands. Having this kind incomparable utility and other differences is what defines a class and a spec, not the size of some arbitrary disparity.
Basically I'd prefer tighter balance with emphasis on other differentiating features. It's frankly the same idea but dramatically healthier for the game...and the community.
civic steppe
@ruby wigeon ily. ur awesome
maiden river
anyone have mouse zowie ec2-a or fk2?
sweet beacon
Hello. what is the best class healer in the game? and why?
wooden path
Naturally people would say dwarf priest but it really depends on the situation
All healers have their up and down sides
But (don’t quote me on this since I don’t play healers too often) I think it was priests in 5 mans.
@sweet beacon
sweet beacon
i know all ppl said all healer good
but if u have all of them and u must chosse one to join, wich one u chosse?
u will chosse*
sweet beacon
i am confused wich one to pick Druid rest or paladin holy??
sweet beacon
can u tell me wich one is better? please
maiden river
No one can tell you what healer to pick as it's entirely subjective.
Play whatever one seems most fun to you.
sweet beacon
When i use my boost on paladin i can't chosse holy. why?
fair karma
@sweet beacon
Not all specializations are available yet for boosts/trials.
But that is better discussed in the #retail-wow channel.
fair karma
No worries, just letting you know, dear.
simple sorrel
It would change it yes, but idk how much
The experience of collecting in classic would be a huge difference than with current content
fickle drum
Well yeah, I'd have to get a full group together for farming Scholomance or Stratholme
or old UBRS
simple sorrel
To say "go out of your way" means a LOT
fickle drum
But you know, as long as they're decent groups, I wouldn't mind.
simple sorrel
But a lot of that stuff is still available
fickle drum
I could finally revisit the content I never had a chance to back in the day because back in the day I was a full-time college student and just didn't have the time/mental energy to capping and gearing a main
simple sorrel
the big ones would probably be the greens that go for huge money on the AH now, as well as the old dungeon sets, corrupted ashbringer, tier 3, etc
fickle drum
Eh, I can farm greens all week, that's not an issue
I would really only want the stuff that's completely unobtainable in the game now, except maybe on the BMAH. Tier 3, ZG tier, Tier 0/Tier 0.5, assorted quest rewards and boss drops
simple sorrel
Well my point was how it would be a nice addition, but only if you could properly argue that it wouldnt change the original classic experience by much
b/c that is what blizz is going for
And technically tier 0 and 0.5 are obtainable, they are just cosmetics now through darkmoon
fickle drum
Right
Though I apparently have some actual pieces left over from pre-Cata (bracers were BoE I think?)
simple sorrel
and belt iirc
i know tier 1 was bracers and belt boe
but they are still active anyway
fickle drum
But again, those will never show up in my Sets under Appearance unless I buy all the Darkmoon Replicas, and I'm like "why should I spend tickets on an appearance I technically already have"
fair karma
I have the original Shadowcraft set except for the shoulders but in the set thing I guess the looms count?
dire pendant
This would be a good addition. I remember selling everything in my bags because I wanted to make room for new expansion stuff. So, I probably deleted some pretty sweet mogs. The problem is how do you tie this to the bnet account, because technically Classic will be a "different" game than current WoW.
simple sorrel
yeah but they wont be able to disintigrade bnet from classic
i wouldnt think at least
i mean im for it if they keep it, im for it if they program it out
dire pendant
Yeah, let us take into account US/EU servers. Those would be tied to the bnet account, but you can't share your mounts on both. They are technically different games.
simple sorrel
True, didnt think about that
Originally the discussion was brought up briefly in #transmog that I thought it would be awesome if they added the xmog acquisition ONLY to classic
dire pendant
Yeah, I saw that.
simple sorrel
meaning if you got it on classic, it would allow you to use it on current
but not put actual xmog into classic
dire pendant
I like the idea. It would be cool to collect like that.
simple sorrel
Well my thought process is "i technically did the work"
and not much would change in how classic is played
it would still be brutally unforgiving with how gear is acquired and soulbound
dire pendant
I don't think anything would change except the number of people playing. Some people only play for the tmog.
simple sorrel
meaning farming xmog wouldnt be an easy thing to do
Yeah, which would drive the number of people playing and grouping up
which for classic would be a good thing
simple sorrel
queue? pfft
no queues here
preform or nothing at all in classic
except for bgs
omg the people that would be doing pvp for the titles so they can use the gear on current
fickle drum
I'd still be staying away from PvP xD
Though if they bring back weekend-long AVs, my brother who quit during Cata may actually consider coming back, because that was apparently something he really enjoyed
simple sorrel
They had a certain charm to them
I didnt do many b/c my computer at the time could handle the game just fine, just not multitudes of other players
dire pendant
PvP is boring to me, most times. I feel like it doesn't really change.
The 10 hour a day grind for honor just to not get the best ranking would blow.
fallow zodiac
Hey guys, typical retard question ahead:
--DISCLAIMER--
Anyone an estimate or guide-date for when classic will hit?
hexed finch
not even blizzard knows when classic will hit
at blizzcon they were still at the decision making stage
wooden niche
Eh, somehow I doubt they would annouce it with a video and everything if they wren't balls deep comitted.
hexed finch
i didnt say they werent committed
i'm saying they were so early in development they still have to decide what to do and what to not do
civic steppe
And, I assume that they know releasing an estimated release date to the public would be a shitty idea because then a shit-ton of people would be complaining when it doesn't release on that day
simple sorrel
If I had to take an unintelligent guess, it would probably be somewhere around mid to late Battle
I couldnt see them releasing it near an expansion release and take away from potential sales
wooden path
Any purists out there?
Who want the original experience for what it was?
I feel like I’m the only one...
polar forge
you're not but I said the same thing and got mocked pretty thoroughly for it
simple sorrel
The whole xmog thing i mentioned earlier is pretty much the only change I would welcome, as it really wouldn't change anything. If it's not in there, im a-ok with that.
hexed finch
@wooden path well,the problem is,there are many purists out there,the only difference is the extent to which you're a purist,some purists want a copy paste of that experience,with the bugs,the totally shit itemization,unbalanced classes etc
some purists want the game how it was but with no bugs,and it goes on and on
simple sorrel
Then you get into whether it really can be considered a bug or an exploit
simple sorrel
I know a lot of folks are begging for class balance, etc. Which I dont see how that can be possible without completely changing how vanilla wow was
Once you do proper class balances, it becomes BC
wooden path
Like the bugs that got hotfixed super quickly (stacks of reck, etc.) and how broken AV is, don’t allow those
But stuff like windfury or the blood plague I’d want to happen how it happened
And that’s why we shouldn’t balance classes @simple sorrel
simple sorrel
I agree
part of vanilla was "you wanna tank? ok fine you have to be <x> race warrior with this talent build
are you a paladin? fine then you are a buff bot in holy spec
wooden path
Yeah, balancing the classes literally makes it not Vanilla anymore
That was so important to the experience
simple sorrel
Are you a priest? Dwarven priests get first pick b/c they have fear ward
wooden path
It was even more fun when you went as a spec that wasn’t viable
And then you made it viable
wooden path
Haha that sounds awesome
wooden path
How’d you do on the meters?
wooden path
But enough?
simple sorrel
But I did what I was supposed to do, didnt fuck up or around
Contributed tons of mats and shit to the guild for other raiders
I earned my place through other means
I wasnt the first priest to get gear or anything, usually 3rd or so
Which is understandable
priests were the best healers back then
and when I needed to stop dpsing and heal (which was really viable back then), I did
wooden path
I really wish I joined in Vanilla sometimes
Been playing since I was in preschool but that was TBC
simple sorrel
It was an experience all of its own
wooden path
I’m the next generation of WoW players lol
simple sorrel
One thing that REALLY sucked that I kinda wish they did fix, only b/c it was pure horseshit that it was this way to begin with
is that alliance would still get shaman drops and horde would still get pally drops
wooden path
Yeaaaaah
simple sorrel
which were absolutely useless b/c there were no shaman on ally and no pally on horde
simple sorrel
But I do think blizz is on the right path with "its gonna be the classic experience, we just dont know where to start it"
wooden path
Most definitely
I think Blizzard is more hardcore about this than the population hyping it
Since a majority want QOL changes it seems
simple sorrel
Thats the thing about classic, there wasn't a real concept of QOL
simple sorrel
Case and point, are you a hunter or warlock? Well guess what? You get 1 less bag than everyone else for ammo
simple sorrel
Oh god classic is gonna be so easy
The biggest hurdles will be getting 40 people together to raid, and making sure they have the right res gear for fights that need it
There were hardly any mechanics, not like there are today
You may have had 2 things to worry about per type (tank, dps, healer)
b/c they had to balance the fights for 40 people
when they pushed 25m raids in bc, they were able to do more with fights b/c less people means they can be more intimate with the encounter
What IM really interested to see is how the addon devs will work with classic
things have become pretty advanced on the addon scene, especially with the UI portion
I wonder how they will tackle things like group buffing. There were no raid buffs, just single target and party buffs. Which means that, for instance, priests had to cast fortitude on 8 different groups
keeping up with that was a bit of a pain
simple sorrel
bc?
simple sorrel
I know, but I dont think they are going to push classic forward through the xpacs again
wooden path
I’m hoping to at least Wrath
I’ve been waiting so long to play TBC
nobody has done it
simple sorrel
Eh at MOST they would do a legacy server dedicated to the xpac
But the whole point of doing vanilla in the first place was b/c it was sooooo different from everything after
that, and we lost all of it in the atrocity that was the Cata revamp
simple sorrel
But it's <techincally> still there
wooden path
You don’t know HOW BAD I want to do the entire attunement chart
Yeeeeeeah but
In legion format
And honestly
simple sorrel
Yeah
wooden path
Who really wants to do level 70 content with OP level 70s and no attunements
simple sorrel
Attunements were no joke
simple sorrel
There is some novelty to them, but for the most part they were just a massive pain in the ass
that hindered the ability to do anything else
simple sorrel
Oh it's great to go through it
simple sorrel
But then when it comes down to raid time and you have 30 people and cant get another 10 because they arent attuned.... not so great
simple sorrel
rip raids in general
wooden path
True true
No linking achievements back in the day
You just sorta hoped
You could link keys though
I think TBC was the best point in WoWs life though. Balanced, yet still considered relatively difficult compared to today
And cmon
Arenas
simple sorrel
Eh, you're hitting a whole diff argument area there with tons of diff viewpoints
polar forge
I'm doing pathfinder rn and I'm calling it "the flying attunement"
regal junco
i was never good enough to even think about raiding in TBC, is it basically like, if you want to raid you have to have gotten the Tidestone, Tear, Hammer and Aegis
and then to do ToS you have to have done the whole fucking nightborne thing
civic steppe
@wooden path isn't WoD pretty much pre-classic and TBC combined?
civic steppe
i mean, it was Outland before it became.. Outland
wooden path
Pretty sure WoD lacked content, community, and a huge world to explore
civic steppe
no shit. so did TBC
wooden path
Well TBC had the whole rep grind thing for gear as well as attunements.
The community was still there, although it did lack a little bit because of flying. Garrisons absolutely killed it though.
And while I will stick with you on Outland being small, lots of players were still in Azeroth since they weren’t max level yet.
civic steppe
;-; those players who weren't max lvl at the time of TBC couldn't play TBC
wooden path
Well they did once they got that far in TBC
That’s like 3-5 years from 2004 to 2009
If you played TBC
civic steppe
i didn't
wooden path
Including a possibility of you being in Vanilla so
With that time, you’d probably make it. Especially with all the excess quests in Outland
civic steppe
i played neither vanilla nor tbc lol
wooden path
Fr?
civic steppe
fr
wooden path
You probably should be before you make an opinion about classic <3
No offense, just my opinion
simple sorrel
BC was vanilla with the kinks rounded out
wooden path
^^^^
civic steppe
that's kinda rude. your saying "no offense" makes it worse
wooden path
Well I mean I don’t mean it in a rude fashion
simple sorrel
The game didnt really start shaping into what we have today until WotLK came out
wooden path
What I mean is you should have experience before saying anything about it
civic steppe
i can still play the remains of TBC and Vanilla so i mean
civic steppe
they don't delete the expacs when they make a new one
wooden path
TBC pretty much just brought class balance
simple sorrel
Vanilla was completely revamped, there is abosuletly nothing left of it after cata
wooden path
Out there’s no remnants of the old expacs still in the game anymore
Outland is there but
It’s not like it was in TBC
civic steppe
ok, fine but that doesn't mean i can't have an opinion about it
wooden path
Ehhh
civic steppe
i can do research on the topic
civic steppe
i can watch reviews/ walkthroughs
simple sorrel
BC is there in its original format, but the experience you get going through it isnt the same due to the changes in leveling, class format, damage, skill revamps, etc
wooden path
Research for a game like this can be biased
simple sorrel
It's also very limited
wooden path
Exactly Aqua
civic steppe
obviously. which is why i usually find multiple sources
simple sorrel
YT wasnt as big as it is today
civic steppe
there's more than just YT
simple sorrel
there isnt as much content that was created during Vanilla and BC
Yeah but without video its just a retelling rather than a visual experience
You dont get to see it in action
its just sorta in theory at that point
Not saying that its all worthless in any way
civic steppe
ok, fine. but i don't see how that means i can't have an opinion about this
wooden path
Well you can
simple sorrel
I didnt say anything regarding that
wooden path
I just don’t consider it as valid as a top raider for example
But in the eyes of blizzard
We’re all the same
wooden path
So I get upset when people who haven’t been there voice their opinion <3
Blizzard hears the majority, and the majority weren’t in Vanilla
I’m not saying you can’t have an opinion
I’m just voicing my hopes <3
Am I allowed to suggest things like Elysium?
To get the experience?
Or no?
civic steppe
in every game, including this one, is obviously going to have a community drought around the first few expacs' release. Outland wasn't huge, and... oh, yeah, it lacked content that we have today. that's not an opinion.
simple sorrel
Also on that previous statement, BC lacked content in the scope of todays game
Back then we didnt have lfr and lfd and shit to make things faster
It had content for it's day, and devs were constantly working on it
WoD on the other hand, blizz just didnt give to flying fucks about and left it to rot
hexed finch
BC lacked content,but that content felt more than today,because of huge timegating
did you see the attunements for BC?
civic steppe
true but i mean, even if i wasn't a vanilla/ tbc player, Saeris' comment is easily disputed
hexed finch
jesus that shit was cancer for anyone that hadnt been playing since the start
simple sorrel
In terms of sheer numbers of things to do, yes it had less
But what it did have took much much longer than anything by todays standards
wooden path
What?
Oh you mean “I wasn’t around in WoD much”
I mean I didn’t raid in heroics
I was thwre
It was shit
civic steppe
the same has been said of every expac, i'm sure
polar forge
Warlords of Draenor is easily my least favorite expansion
hexed finch
my theory is that they recognised that garrisons were shit early on
so they put 10% of the team to work on WoD
and everyone else worked on legion
wooden niche
You can see how much they consider to be shit vs good b how much staff they carry itno new epxac, since blizz is very reactive.. too reactive, freaking pendlumum junkies
BfA is getting both WQs and M+, and "some" elements of Artifact system (e.g. continues advacement after being leveled capped)
simple sorrel
Yeah but we're probably not going to see much of the follower system
M+ was inevitable, b/c of D3 and how popular it is there
hexed finch
well you say that
like m+ is a bad thing
it's actually one of the most successful systems of legion
and it's shaping up to be an esport too
simple sorrel
Oh I know it is
Personally, I hate it
I just wanna get my +15s and never touch them again
Then again I'm never a fan of time trial anything tbh
trail sierra
I hope BFA's communities make M+ more accessible
wooden niche
I hate "community" about M+ and the fact you "have to" do one at certain level per week
But I like the idea of it, and I can see how it can be fun for a group tightly neat group of friends.
Not "big richards only need to apply, checking raid IO, and dna amples for 10 generations only!"
trail sierra
yea the pug group system and the bring your friends or guild restriction keeps me from participating
regal junco
I wonder if theres a fear of strength associated with posting m+ groups where only large penises are needed
What is that even about
Like I get it’s just being obnoxious but it’s so widespread
And yeah usually I try to do a level 12 or so, maybe more once I get a bit more antorus gear, but this past week was extra minions+all minions drop the fel bombs you can’t AoE
And fuck that noise
Literally the worst possible combo
vestal glacier
Really wish they made a tbc legacy instead of vanilla
hexed finch
I started out in TBC,so I guess I'm biased
idle kite
Hopefully, if people play vanilla and blizz sees it as worth it, they will eventually make a tbc one as well... more people happy, more money... win win.
So... PLAY Classic when it come out :) !!! 😬
comes*
Maybe they even go up to wrath or cata... would really enjoy to have servers for all those... really my fav wow time frame... from vanilla to cata excepting dragon soul raid.
fair karma
I'm pretty sure half the point is to experience the world before Cata fucked it up.
idle kite
I liked cata, people who say it was bad, are exagerating... and are mostly the ones that did not even play it. Even if they would not have changed the zones, it would have still been very differant from vanilla, cuz of the other char spec tallents changes. Cata is very wrath styled questing. Everyone liked wrath, but why not the cata ones as well, being the same style and all.
fair karma
I played from the pre-events all the way through. It's not like it was awful it just wasn't all that. I loved Wrath.
wooden niche
In all honesty, I never "hated" any expansion pack. I am not sure why people have such strong feeling about one or the other. Cata was different becasue you had several disjoined zones, and you also had a very obvious ball buster with Vashjar (unfinished story)
It also uprooted the old works, and it SUCKED if you were allaince becasue horde destroyed so much
And foot hold in Southern barrens didn't really make up for it.
- Westfall, where zone goes from bad to "literally on fire forever"
But other Cata zones were fine, Deepholme in particular was different and kinda awesome.
Also liked a minor but nice touch that "princess" from Arahi was there
wooden niche
As I said, I think there is thing thing online to hate on cata and mop, and love wotk, while in reality I don't think any of them are terrible
normal torrent
Hey I really want to get back into the game. I would love if any of you guys could let me know why you play and what there is to look forward to in the upcoming year for wow
It’s so hard to commit to this game due to time, would love to here some opinions
hexed finch
@normal torrent since you're in the classic channel,i think you're about WoW classic,or the current game/next expansion?
please clarify 😄
normal torrent
I’m thinking about classic. Never played vanilla. Started playing at cata thru first part of legion
regal junco
how much artifact power did you have
nowdays an average quest will give you an artifact power token for 1-3 billion
idle kite
Ap is overrated... once you have all the spells unlocked the ap grind is over for most people.
As far as classic goes. Its very different from cata and onwards exps. First of all the lvling process is dif from cata, the quests will take you across the 2 continents frequently. The 1 to 60 ride is way slower, it normally takes from 1 to 3 months to get to 60. ( about 10 to 15 days of actual played time)
There are classes with specs that are not even worth looking into(aka surv hunter, arcane mage, etc) so you are most likely to respec to the raid teams needs. Respec costs are big cuz gold is hard to get... so if you dont like grinding pick a spec and stick with it.
Dungeons are somewhat challenging cuz low hp pools and big damage from mobs, so cc is a must sometimes.
Pvp is kinda lopsided sometimes cuz of some classes can spec and gear to one shot anyone.
It might seem that i am listing bad things about it, when in facts these quarks are what made vanilla great. People need to interact much more cuz of these limitations. Realms are closed with no rename and realm transfer, making you get to know people on your realm, the ninja looter, the good enchanter, the lockpicker, the guy with the ubrs key etc. And it really makes the world feel full of people going on their way and you are a part of that ride
The raids are great from the capabilities of the classes at that point... but pretty simplistic compared to current boss meckanics.
But be preppared for alot of raid farming cuz loot is really rare and few in between, but this makes it really worth it when you get the item you want and need, like a mini celebration when you see it drop and maybe be lucky to get it from the rest of the 39 other people.
Overall... if you keep with it to 60, and get into a nice guild to raid and pvp you will get what im saying and will have a blast. Its really alot of fun it you like those sort of games, where you need to put in the time, but it pays of in the end.
idle kite
downgrade?... it's a totaly different game. it's not about playing a lesser game, it's about playing a different game that you can't play anymore.
wooden niche
Drive by low effort trolling by clark I am guessing judgent by main channel comment
idle kite
i see... still some people really think like that, and it's a poor view on things. each version of wow has it's bad and good points. non are perfect... so people what to play the one they liked most.
maiden river
I agree but i can honestly say i will never play classic. I hope it works out for people who do want it though 
thorn maple
cant wait fo dat lvl 60 boost 🔥 🔥
sand reef
Since I started playing WoW about 2 weeks after TBC launched, I am interested in trying out Classic. But, ultimately, I hope it does work out.
idle kite
Lol...
desert coral
Is this a scam or is it legit
vernal kettle
@desert coral definitely scam.
Blizzard will have the little Blizzard logo before their name.
Plus they wouldn't whisper you like this, and send you to a non-Blizzard webpage, and have so many grammatical issues.
forest crypt
Seems pretty legit to me
I can only imagine what "detect battle" could be 
sarcasm alert. It's far from legitimate. Blizzard messages are always in a whisper window of their own!
I would have entertained myself, though. Troll the bot
full current
I just report them and get over it
Same guy has multiple accounts I got a whisper from some "blizzardis" aswell last week
Guessing this makes a fortune as wow isn't cheap
indigo venture
"We depth investigation" lmao
fickle drum
@desert coral Also the fact that it's a ".cn" not ".com" or ".net"
They didn't even really try
strong glacier
Where is the Amazing Kreskin when you need him to predict the release...
hollow junco
Gottta let them release vanilla before you get BC silly
hexed finch
ye duh
still rivet
blizzards other company, Blizzarrd
maiden river
so will classic wow have GMs spawning random bosses and have characters in game?
regal junco
They used to wear blue robes
wooden niche
They are doing it now due to new folks geting the game for "christmas"
vernal glen
They used to be ingame sometimes right at start?
idle kite
Yeah... but isnt that still a thing? They teleport to you only if needed. So its less common with current tools.
maiden river
@desert coral Yes its fake, when you enter your account information you get this 检测到非法攻击,您的IP已被记录,稍后会发送到中国网络安全中心进行IP分析,请勿尝试破解网站，谢谢合作!
civic steppe
@desert coral i like to respond: "Fuck off" to those messages
makes me feel a little better even though it's likely a bot
wooden niche
I think the original wow manual even has pictures of GMs (in black and white lol) to tell you who they and you need to follow their advice etc
hollow junco
lol i start flirting with them @civic steppe
maiden river
gms used to be lit back then tho
if they could sill do what they used to do
they'd be able to give you AP
imagine that
or a set from any of the raids
a legendary
fair karma
'Hey, you're pretty cool and polite, have a pet that you can't get anymore.'
I would die.
still rivet
azeroth thicc
cloud lance
icy salmon
?
sand reef
It would've been laughably disappointing if Demon Hunters couldn't use the Warglaives.
regal junco
is it canon an adventurer has the glaives?
indigo venture
Illidan has them
regal junco
not including the cinematic where he kills Gul'dan, in ToS, Cathedral of Eternal Night, and Argus he uses the pvp skin
rugged crane
fuck no they're mine now he can go get new ones
indigo venture
He had them in Nighthold after the cinematic
they just got an HD upgrade in 7.3
7.2*
regal junco
ok well after that he's using the ones with the fire
no no, dudes, in post-Nighthold stuff he is NOT using Azzinoth he's using one of the twinblade skins
indigo venture
they probably just gave him a similar looking HD model so that they could put it into the argus cinematic better
regal junco
indigo venture
yeah, that's post nighthold
regal junco
they retextured Illidan, you'd think they could retexture his signature fucking weapons
so what happened to the old swords
indigo venture
those are probably just them with a better model
regal junco
tehy literally have horns on the side and the blade is incorporeal
rugged crane
hey, incorporeal weapons are all the rage right now
indigo venture
they also look extremely similar to the warglaives, taking a DH appearance and giving them to him is a lot easier than making a brand new glaive model
idle kite
he lost the blades in tbc dudes.... thats where the demon hunter timewalking black temple achiv comes from " i'll keep these for you". you get his glaves... so he does not have them anymore
indigo venture
see the picture I linked
idle kite
wait.. is that the current one or the old cata 5 man dungeon?
indigo venture
?
idle kite
a my bad was looing a foulfagus ones
indigo venture
Oh you mean the WoE ones, no those were orange
regal junco
they're soulbound to him though
the second Tyrande busted him out of prison in WC3 he just zapped them back to his hands
indigo venture
Hense why he has them atop the Nighthold
idle kite
anyway... never got the hype with illidan... he got beat by arthas in war3... we barely see him in tbc... really dont get the hype. the books have him as a badass mage that is kinda reckless. i would not have him as a highend hero/protagonist
wooden niche
I believe term people use is "anti hero"
Like... he is a bit nerdy and autisitc but incredibly talented and while he has empathy for "mortals" as species, he lacks it on individual level. So he sees this over reaching danger, and sees how preventing/defeating it is of paramaunt emportance where nothing else matters
Think of him as Cmd Shepard doing renegade playthrough
If you ever played mass effect 1-3
Also he probably won't be ina classic wow, so maybe wrong channel
regal junco
I like him a lot in the books
i like his M.O. of "95% meticulous planing, 5% completely winging it and risking losing everything
like, "yes at long last im almost ready to open a portal to argus i just need to loot a few hundred more draenei souls, in the Shadow Council/Arrokoa/Ethereal/insane ghost controlled shithole that is Auchindoun, i'm an excllelent fighter but this ritual rill require all of my concentration. I should bring uh.....maybe like, 10 guards. all orc jobbers at that"
rugged crane
as an autistic I take mild offense to the implication that you think illidan is :V
he's a bit of a fedora tbh
he worked better as a villain than he ever did as an "anti-hero"
indigo venture
If you think TBC writing was better than WC3's, I dunno what to say lol
wooden niche
Fedora?
coarse niche
Hey question, how do I get Heirlooms that are on one character to another?
rugged crane
they're... they're part of a collection
just go to your heirloom collection on the alt and grab the item you want
civic steppe
you can also just, you know, mail your heirlooms to the character you want to have them
rugged crane
why bother with postage?
fair karma
Some people like to enchant them
civic steppe
classic seems to be the place people go to usually, to ask questions
rugged crane
strange
fair karma
Right?
idle kite
Anyone think there will be a big content drought between legion and bfa release and thus blizz will release classic soonish to get more work done on bfa?
I'd say September for classic and late November for bfa...
vernal glen
I think it was only an announcement at blizzcon to let people know they are working on this. I don't think it's anywhere near ready yet. Think in 2019/2020 somewhere probably. Or have there been news posts?
indigo venture
Classic is definitely not coming out this year
idle kite
no new news about it... but from the old blizzcon interviews where j allen brake said that they already had a build and some working systems at that point, and mainly that intrastructure was the main working point of classic, dont think it will make that long to port to current hardware. and to set if "ubrs is 10 man or 5 man" as he said, cant take too long to make decisions on cuz there are just very few like that to decide. my opinion at least
how much did sc remaster take to release... 1 year and some change and they needed to upres and creat new models cuz of remaster. dont think a non remaster wow can that that long, seeing that there are no graphical upgrades planed for it.
take*
simple sorrel
I think that they will release it in the middle of an xpac, rather than anywhere near a launch
So like, maybe around now in BfA
wooden niche
How are you so certain they are not coming out this year?
They were announced at LAST year blizzcon
vernal glen
Last year as in october 2017? 
civic steppe
^
carmine gate
I think it wont because they said on Blizzcon they still think what and how to do and are resembling team... so its very early in the process
also they wont release it at the time of release of new expac, which kind of limits it
I would stay next year Q1 is possible
narrow jetty
I feel like at next Blizzcon they will have some type of teaser out for classic but the announcment was that they are going to do it...that they had only just begun and it was a far out project.
wooden niche
They did say they have to track down people who bought commemorative server blades from original servers and get those back
rugged crane
that was a joke
digital sluice
i want a server blade! preferably from wra or mg
idle kite
Wra mg? Whats that?
fair karma
Wyrmrest Accord and Moon Guard
maiden river
when is wow classic going to release
lusty phoenix
i'd say after BfA
simple sorrel
Id guess either in the middle of BfA or in the middle of the xpac after BfA.
maiden river
Can’t be that far off, I’d say after the first raid tier of BfA is done.
The core game is all there, even with a small team it can’t take years to get it to launch ready
maiden river
i'd bet anything they're upgrading textures/models.
simple sorrel
Pretty sure they're leaving all that alone.
maiden river
I wouldn’t mind an upgrade to textures, but yeh that’s too long, maybe they’ll copy the new race models from the current game
I do hope that they also add in the achievement system, that’s like half the reason I still play the game
simple sorrel
It's going to be a "classic experience"
meaning they will just fix bugs, and maybe space out content release
content being AQ, ZG, Naxx, etc
We MIGHT have bnet integration
but as far as new stuff goes, that will most likely be it
maiden river
A lot of classic players may want that, but blizzard will cater to the masses, they want people to keep playing after they hit max level
New stuff will be added whether you want it or not
Otherwise they wouldn’t have assigned a team to it
simple sorrel
They are assigning a team to recreate it, not for on going development
You want new stuff, head to the current xpac
Vanilla servers wouldnt be vanilla servers if they suddenly started adding lfd, updated models, bonus rolls, achievements, etc
clever ridge
You'd be surprised
maiden river
they want the difficulty, progression, lack of LFG/LFR, etc
simple sorrel
The vanilla experience is more than just lack of instant access
the game was almost nothing like the game we have today in almost every way
maiden river
they're not calling it vanilla though. they're calling it Classic
simple sorrel
plus, if you give a mouse a cookie
clever ridge
Classic is vanilla
simple sorrel
Vanilla and classic is the same thing
they just call it classic for official reasons
clever ridge
^
simple sorrel
b/c marketing World of Warcraft: Vanilla sounds stupid
maiden river
xpac will be chocolate
rugged crane
simple sorrel
If you havent played since BC, or WoW at all, you'd think it's a damn ice cream flavor
And it wouldn't be "classic" without "classic" textures
clever ridge
Boy that'd be confusing, next it'll be WoW: Strawberry, and WoW: Neopolitan
simple sorrel
And like I said, you give folks updated models, then suddenly people will want this, and that, and the other thing
clever ridge
yeah if it doesn't look and feel exactly like ye olden days then people will be upset
simple sorrel
And having anything but that is pointless
maiden river
i bet people will be upset no matter what
simple sorrel
private servers will pop up again with "true authentic classic experience", which would cost blizz revenue
maiden river
'cant believe they didnt even upgrade the textures'
simple sorrel
That would be WoW: Classic "Remastered"
maiden river
😐
simple sorrel
They arent going to put a lot of man hours and time into this outside of basically just booting the servers back up
The content release timeline is speculatory, but active development is a definite no
That would be like blizz working on new content for D2 LOD vs working on D3
fickle drum
But I want more content for Diablo II 😮
simple sorrel
My prediction is the classic servers are going to get hit very hard at first. Old folks wanting the old experience again, and people that never played it will give it a try. Then after a few months (MAYBE a year) it will pretty much settle down to the dedicated classic players with the occasional person jumping between classic and live
Once that happens, it will probably (but not with absolute certinty) be difficult for fresh players to start
They could reach 60 and dungeon run tons, yeah, but seeing raid content will likely prove difficult
Running multiple raids back then was almost unheard of. Once most guilds get up to attempting to clear AQ40 and Naxx, finding a guild that will take the time to run Ony or MC may prove difficult
I say that, but with newer innovations like discord and hindsight, the community might figure something out
There wont be any cross realm shit EVER on classic, so you're stuck with whoever is on your server
clever ridge
prolly only be a few realms for classic anyway
simple sorrel
I am interested, though, to see the server layout. WoW: Classic will be like emulating NES games on todays machinses, so servers might be able to handle a larger population load
I am also interested in seeing what todays addon devs will cook up for it as well
if anything changes THAT will be it
Addons will be 99% of the QoL upgrades in classic
People with older machines will probably run classic as well
WoW may have optimized a bunch over the years, but I'm willing to bet that WoW today on it's lowest setting is probably closer to high or medium setting on classic
lower poly count, fewer particle effects, greatly reduced draw distance, no sharding and cross realm bullshit
clever ridge
I'll run classic just for the ""fun"" of it, I started WoW back in Wrath and only saw classic and BC through watching my mom and dad play
simple sorrel
Id like to try for stuff i didnt get before
Corrupted ashbringer, attempt at black scarab mount
clever ridge
yeah, like Rok'Delar and corrupted ashbringer
fair karma
I wanna make my original crew and maybe level them and such, experience the old world I miss but my focus will be current content.
clever ridge
although that being said paladins are gunna have a very tough time, from what I heard paladins were litterally the shit-can class
simple sorrel
I want a true classic experience, but if there is any 1 thing I would like to see is if stuff obtained in classic to have an effect on our live account. Xmog, mounts, and such. That doesnt mean that the system changes in classic at all, but the acquisition would carry over.
Paladins were buff bots, plain and simple
the only real tank was warrior
only priest was holy (although I raided shadow and damn proud of it 😄 )
prisma sapphire
Now that'd be interesting, although I can only assume that programming that would be a nightmare.
clever ridge
yeah
simple sorrel
but just saying, if there was ANY change, id like for that to be it
b/c gear acquisition wouldnt change
and if anything, it would encourage people to run more
And I technically DID the work
prisma sapphire
You could argue that getting that gear now would be easier because of our much better game knowledge compared to the people who did it the first time around.
simple sorrel
Ehhhh kinda
prisma sapphire
Not that there are many of those around these days. 😛
simple sorrel
The point of gear then was purely functional, not cosmetic
People were looking for upgrades, not sets
fair karma
I would dig being able to get certain gear again that you can't anymore
Like the red cloth mask
simple sorrel
You had a set list of gear you needed to shoot for and that was it
simple sorrel
I really wanna see how they handle the AQ event
AQ was the only thing in classic that was time sensitive
The event leading up to it, that is
and it was fun
expensive, but fun
prisma sapphire
I bet that they could get it to actually work without the servers exploding this time.
simple sorrel
idk
clever ridge
but if the servers dont explode then its not the true experience
simple sorrel
they use sharding so much to lower load on the servers it makes me think the servers are made of paper mache
prisma sapphire
There is something special about the boat docking inside the Redridge mountains, lol.
simple sorrel
One thing i will NOT miss in classic, cross-realm and sharding
prisma sapphire
I like it only because my realm is completely dead otherwise. Although it does seem better than it was in WoD...
simple sorrel
I wouldnt even know if my realm is populated or dead b/c of that shit
prisma sapphire
In lateish WoD, I could go through the whole of Tanaan without seeing a single person.
simple sorrel
I think that was endgame WoD as a whole
clever ridge
Thats a good thing though, Tanaan SUCKED with lots of people around
EVERYONE competing for the same fkin thing
simple sorrel
Tanaan just sucked
prisma sapphire
It had been dying by MoP, but there were still some people hanging around in Shrine. Guess everyone was in their garrisons or unsubbed in WoD. 😛
Agreed, Tanaan was bad.
fickle drum
pepperidge farm remembers when all the mobs outside instances were elite too
prisma sapphire
You know things went horribly wrong when you leave after Highmaul and come back a while after HFC and almost nothing has been added outside the raids.
simple sorrel
It was ok once you got flying, but navigating tanaan on foot...... fuck that. Worst zone layout in the game by far
Well they gave up on WoD partway through development
they jumped ship and started working on legion
prisma sapphire
So I've heard. Probably for the best tbh, WoD was never going to be very good by the time it hit release.
simple sorrel
WoD was pretty much dead before it even launched
it had huge potential
it was their dev model that was shit
They realized it while developing legion and changed it
Meaning Legion COULD have ended up just like WoD had they not changed what they were doing
prisma sapphire
Man, I would've been so sad if Legion had gone in the same direction as WoD.
simple sorrel
Tons of stuff got dropped in WoD. A lot of story and character development. A whole zone. Bladespire Citadel and Karabor.
clever ridge
If Legion went that way WoW would be dead, for good
simple sorrel
The Shattrath raid
Grimrail Depot was supposed to be much more involved
More pvp stuff
Lots of QoL stuff got pushed to legion
rugged crane
suramar is what WoD shattrath should have been like tbh
simple sorrel
Even the intro got changed
prisma sapphire
Yeah, Suramar was done really well.
simple sorrel
I was hoping they would go as in depth on argus as they did suramar, but the guy that wrote suramar is on something different
Well, out of the 2 possible guys that could have wrote suramar, one quit Blizz and the other is working on Hearthstone iirc
prisma sapphire
Wait, Hearthstone has writing? 🤔
simple sorrel
Tbh i cant remember where he went
but im almost certain it isnt WoW
and outside of wow, there isnt much story to be writtin in the world of blizzard
prisma sapphire
Huh, too bad. He did a pretty good job.
prisma sapphire
What I want to know is who in god's name wrote the Destruction Warlock artifact quest. That was probably the worst writing I've ever seen in WoW. :/
fair karma
I know who did at least the Vineyards line in Suramar, the Margaux part
simple sorrel
Was that the one beneath kara?
prisma sapphire
Guldan: Oh hey, you're that guy who helped kill Archimonde. Want to use this one of a kind artifact to finish this EXTREMELY IMPORTANT ritual?
simple sorrel
Oh that one
prisma sapphire
I'm sure I can trust you to do that.
simple sorrel
Eh it was ok
fair karma
Lol I know, right? I was like 'Wtf Gully'
simple sorrel
There were worse
simple sorrel
The ones below kara were horrible. And all the "oh it's on some random legion world, let me portal you to it"
The Kingslayer one was AWESOME
Yeah a LOT of artifacts shared the same questline
only a few got special ones, and even less got very unique special ones
prisma sapphire
Huh, I wouldn't have guessed that. I've only done the Warlock ones.
rugged crane
"and outside of wow, there isnt much story to be writtin in the world of blizzard" diablo and starcraft
prisma sapphire
And their stories were, unfortunately, far weaker than the originals.
imo anyhow
Although I still need to play SC2:LotV
simple sorrel
d3 was ok, deckard cain pissed me off real bad though
Lived through 2 uprisings of diablo and a fucking 10 year development hiatus only to be killed off midway through the first act by some shitty C grade villian
simple sorrel
I mean, i get that he needed to die.... but cmon.... he deserved a better death than that
Oh yeah, back on classic. One other thing I wonder if they "might" change is faction specific gear dropping for the other faction
In other words, will they stop pally stuff from dropping on the horde, and shaman for ally
Pretty sure there wouldnt be many that would argue in favor of keeping that around
regal junco
i'd argue that's basically a glitch
regal junco
its just not a glitch of the vanilla codebase but in the brains of the 2003 blizzard staff who thought it would be a good idea to let that happen
simple sorrel
They fixed it by allowing horde to have pallies and ally to have shamans
regal junco
i mean, having faction exclusive classes was the "big huge stupid problem you cant fix for the sake of fidelity to vanilla"
simple sorrel
Proooobably b/c they knew they were going to make that change anyway in BC, so it wouldnt have made sense to fix it only to have to go back and re-fix it for bc
regal junco
but making the gear drop system slightly less awful in a really passive way wouldnt be that bad would it?
....i can see that, especially since they probably didnt think "previous xpac content is worthles"
because hey if you had no knowledge of the way MMOs work since they were basically just invented, you might suspect people would have real reasons to go back to old dungeons
simple sorrel
It wasnt dungeons really. I mean they were there, but where it was bad was raids
Getting tier gear for the wrong faction suuuuucked
all you could do was DE it
and if the master looter fucked up and gave it to the wrong person.... vendor trash
same could be said about any soulbound item there, but still, you get the point
regal junco
How did DKP work
simple sorrel
Typically you gained a preset amount of points for each raid boss you killed. Some guilds gave out a small amount for contributing things like pots and such. Then each piece of gear was also assigned a dkp value.
Now where it varies is per guild. Some guilds auctioned off pieces with the start value being the starting price. Others had systems like "whoever has the most dkp gets first pick" or a seniority system.
dire pendant
-20 DKP for asking how DKP works.
simple sorrel
Pugging was extremely uncommon as a result b/c pugs often would be at the bottom of the system b/c dkp was only kept track by the guild doing the run. If you switched guilds your dkp reset.
Unless the player was poached. Typically that only happened with tanks though. Extremely rare, but it did happen. The tank switching guilds might get to keep all or a fraction of his dkp
There were no add-ons for it that I know of. All recording was done by hand.
dire pendant
There were addons for it. I used them in BC and Wrath. You had a ton of settings the raid leader had to go through in order to award correctly and stuff.
simple sorrel
Ah I didn't know if they had developed them in vanilla or not
I know they were around in bc, but a lot of guilds were dropping the system by then.
By wrath, dkp was a rarity
dire pendant
No my guild. I had a pally with like 1000+ DKP because no gear was dropping for me.
simple sorrel
I remember gdkp runs. That was odd.
dire pendant
I remember seeing people sell their raids for gold a lot.
simple sorrel
It was for full pug raids
dire pendant
People would pay the leader gold for the gear.
Auctions and stuff.
I remember that. I had totally forgot about some groups doing that.
simple sorrel
Basically there would be a gold bidding war, then at the end the gold was split among the raiders