Oh I do get angry, and I do do things
#no-wow-discussion
wide cipher
But I don't know what to say when you make it very clear to your senator that you don't want x and he does it anyway, and will continue to do wahtever the hell he wants
versed pebble
wide cipher
Awww, harry!
neon hinge
Hi Harry!
versed pebble
dat look ๐
wide cipher
Such a cutie <3
versed pebble
he's now on the back of the sofa cleaning his manhood
steady fossil
I usually keep my political opinions to myself because I know it'll make people angry / disagree with me. Not that I'm necessarily against disagreement, but I'd rather not in wowhead chat, etc. :p
versed pebble
if you ever need a laugh, a cut cat doing that, damn...
I try to aswell, but yeah, sometimes you just can't hold back anymore
neon hinge
Can't close ๐ฆ
steady fossil
O.o
versed pebble
o.O
steady fossil
I've been using the new Curse Client lately to see how it is. To be fair, I haven't encountered any bugs at all, and overall, it's been "nicer." But I still dislike having a "required" Curse client
neon hinge
I still have the old as you guessed
steady fossil
I have it installed but haven't had to use it
wide cipher
THe new one is kinda meh for some things. It's FASTEr which is nice
steady fossil
the new one has automatic updating
wide cipher
but it never gives me that little notificiation that says there are updates
neon hinge
Wasn't that for premiums?
wide cipher
idk
neon hinge
I mean the auto
wide cipher
the old client used to have a ltitle green arrow in the taskbar if there were new things. the new one doesn't, and it's a pain in my behin
steady fossil
it's baseline on the new but you have to enableit
wide cipher
HOW D:
steady fossil
I think they gave premium to users because of the switch
wide cipher
huh
So here's a funny thing though!
Our next door neighbor got a rooster at some point
And we have named him 'the confused rooster'
versed pebble
I have been teasing myself and Dragon recently, we followed the local shelter, oh damn I want a dog
wide cipher
because he's always doing his 'it's dawn' announcement. During the day. During the night.
neon hinge
lol
versed pebble
I mean, LOOK at this face...
neon hinge
I wanted a furret but I can't even take care of myself
wide cipher
you don't want that dog
versed pebble
oh no, Dragon wants a smaller dog, I want a bigger one
my nan was a trainer, so I know how to look after dogs
wide cipher
That one looks as neurotic as my ex boyfriend's
neon hinge
Damn
wide cipher
you'll have to tell him you're coming back every time you leave, give him mail if you're opening it, and all kinds of other stuff
versed pebble
I tell Harry I'm coming back when I leave
right, 4am again (why do i not sleep normal hours?!?) and my heartburn has cooled off, so calling it a ngiht
wide cipher
You better never tell me to sleep because it's late again :P
versed pebble
I do work US times
wide cipher
XD
versed pebble
and wake up at 10am my time
versed pebble
I sleep better when Dragon is there
neon hinge
To the hell, updated
I think we all in-love guys sleep better when we have our lover at our side
neon hinge
Good bye friend, you served well to our will.
steady fossil
REST in peaces
neon hinge
WOAH WOAH WHAT IS THAT
neon hinge
I've promo premium until 22th october
versed pebble
yeah, I used to sleep 3 or 4 hours, now I sleep 5 or 6 ๐
neon hinge
IDK how my ex is still alive, she sleeps like 4-5h
steady fossil
in Settings > Addons> General > ..
versed pebble
right folks, cya all tomorrow
neon hinge
cya
steady fossil
I sleep about 3 or 4 hours but like 2 times a day
steady fossil
Well I don't wory (at the moment) :p
neon hinge
WHY IS IT ALLIANCE
steady fossil
you can change that
neon hinge
I CLICKED HORDE
steady fossil
Obvious not. >:D
steady fossil
Click "Okay" maybe? :p
versed pebble
clicks Minecraft just to be different
steady fossil
er "done"
neon hinge
It just doesn't change, I'll reboot
neon hinge
Eugh, ugly GUI
fxd
It has a button "For the horde"
I yelled "LOK'TAR OGAR" and smashed it
steady fossil
where the button? :o
steady fossil
ahhhh
neon hinge
Switching to english client, will be better for all xD
Is just... weird.
Old one was so smooth
I like the "Get more addons" tho
The featured section
steady fossil
(that's essentially what I want to make videos on)
neon hinge
I can't believe Atlas is still used
I mean, is a good addon
But feels old to me tbh ._.
steady fossil
it's... kind of half-unsupported and old ish and isn't implemented well
should be implemented into the Advnture guide as a tab on the bottom tbh
neon hinge
Would be cool
neon hinge
Yay!
steady fossil
o.o
wide cipher
Sorry, just the continued adventures of granny steph and her 3 year old in laws
because they literally act like they're 3
Anyway I wonder how hard it would be to update Atlas to put it on a tab on the journal anyway
steady fossil
unsure entirely
would have to look at how the follower collection addon does it
maybe take a look at the artifact tab addon
wide cipher
I watched a video on basic lua editing once and I think you start with creating a texture for the button and then copying one of the tab codes and pasting it in, editing the texture and the x/y coords? But then it probably gets more complicated after that XD
Since you need it to pop up a new part of the journal when you click, the map would have to stay inside it (so resizing them all or some kind of coded in scroll bars?)
maybe a functionality that lets you click to pop out a bigger map
steady fossil
well there's also templates
button templates
that are basically premade buttons that you assign commands to
wide cipher
ooo
neon hinge
Both my ex and I are idiots
steady fossil
I'm just an idio
neon hinge
IK
steady fossil
t
wide cipher
seemed to come out of nowhere XD
wide cipher
am I dead, then? D:
neon hinge
If you didn't have a ward yes
wide cipher
๐
neon hinge
lol
steady fossil
here's my proof
wide cipher
This is my cat Logan, the one that kind of adopted us
And another I e
One
He's adorable okay
steady fossil
FLUFFY KITTY
wide cipher
Also don't mind the crazy mess in the background
steady fossil
my background is always worse
wide cipher
neon hinge
LOL
steady fossil
eeeevil
versed pebble
ashen parrot
tfw you get a power outage in an overwatch comp match
versed pebble
wide cipher
LMFAO
versed pebble
wow, this isn't good
http://kotaku.com/layoffs-hit-activision-despite-successful-financial-qua-1792224059
ashen parrot
that doesn't surprise me too much
fresh osprey
they had too many devs
more devs doesnt lead to more games or better content
and it can sometimes make it worse due to poor communication
from what ive read in several books, any team that is more than about 100 people begins to have serious communication problems
fresh osprey
yes, but it was an autonomous QA department. they might have moved people around in order to save money
thats a thing big companies love
versed pebble
QA (or Question and Answer) is used as teh beta test, playtest sectioin for bug finding and testing
most do it in house now though, so makes sense to shut it down
fresh osprey
oh
they dont do that in house
public testing is all the rage
๐
but seriously
most companies have learned that they can test using the public
for free
we do it for free
versed pebble
yeah that too
versed pebble
dragon has roasted peanuts
steady fossil
๐ข
steady fossil
currently taking a little peak at the Rarity addon and how it handles achievement popups: https://hastebin.com/nexayafito.lua
bleak bloom
you can also hookup the legendary popup somehow
steady fossil
I want to try to make an achievement-like popup for when an artifact skin has been obtained
bleak bloom
maybe if you get all colors of a skin?
steady fossil
I know the boolean statement and how to read it, but I don't know how to make it essentailly not count "new popup" every single time you get a kill etc.
ooo
where's that from?
bleak bloom
hekili did it. dont know if you know him
bleak bloom
active in the shaman discord and member of the weakauras discord
steady fossil
hmmm that name rings a bell
bleak bloom
he made an priority helper with the same name
steady fossil
My main concern is going to be making it so it doesn't pop up every single time you get a kill, complete an achievement, etc.
steady fossil
I got all the data I needed and now how to search "If artifactskin is true then Function()"
but wouldn't that trigger a popup every single time the statement runs? O.o
bleak bloom
only when its false
steady fossil
I think I'm having trouble understanding.. so every time it's false, it pops up? O.o
bleak bloom
x means something like "already poppedup?"
steady fossil
hm
that's where SavedVariables would be though and that's the trouble I think I'd have
I don't know how ot write that yet. :c
steady fossil
https://wow.gamepedia.com/API_C_ArtifactUI.GetAppearanceInfoByID
Index 5 is a boolean statement for the artifact ID (if it's been obtained)
https://wow.gamepedia.com/ArtifactAppearanceID
these are all the IDs I've tracked and gotten.
all IDs are unique but I don't know how to basically make a "Have we met" counter for specificially the IDs turning from false to true
bleak bloom
i think the only good way to make it is with the saved variables
steady fossil
that's the part I don't know how to write... lol
versed pebble
anyone else need one of these?
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/02/mind-flayer-trophy-plaque-coming-soon.html
actually I was genuinely thinking Blizz should do trophy racks like this, I'd buy a Murloc one
steady fossil
2.77 mbps?
very satisfied
double the download, put the upload at one tenth of that, and square the ping and you have my home internet speeds
also something must be broken if download is lower than upload
versed pebble
my download should be 100 times that
wide cipher
Hmm. this new care bear mug is awesome and fits lots of coffee
but the downside is that it's hard to drink out of lol
versed pebble
?
neon hinge
Old chat, above
bleak bloom
cool? its poop.
steady fossil
๐
neon hinge
Was that a joke? xD
versed pebble
so what did I miss?
wide cipher
The legendary pop up isn't poop, YOU'RE poop. :D
bleak bloom
neon hinge
๐ข
bleak bloom
its poop.
neon hinge
Lone
versed pebble
OH...
dire quartz
lol
neon hinge
lol
bleak bloom
that snipping tool is nice dont you think?
bleak bloom
no, windows snipping tool
steady fossil
I dunno what Windows Snipping Tool is. :p
neon hinge
The cut I think?
steady fossil
I use ShareX for screenshots and I have it set to* auto-upload to imgur
neon hinge
I've windogge in silly spanish so...
bleak bloom
its the scissor with the white with the red circle at the blade
and a blue part to hold
steady fossil
I don't have that enabled I think :p
bleak bloom
should be on every windows computer at least after win7
steady fossil
I never use it. :p
bleak bloom
easy to use, can just copy paste from there without saving
and draw red circles
text marker
neon hinge
I barely use chat software that doesn't allow images
Actually I just use puush (upload img) when I'm on the IRC
wide cipher
That's not a poop it's a sausage link, you'd think a german would recognize that. :P
south goblet
It's actually the letter J but it's too drunk to stand properly
wide cipher
lol
versed pebble
any DK's around notice the Knights in Broken Isles Archeus have teh kneepad version boots for the DK set?
steady fossil
I think I noticed that actually
versed pebble
yeah they all have the kneepad version, even Trolls
and just that change to teh boots makes the whole set look so much better
and meaner
neon hinge
gn8!
south goblet
heh
frosty tundra
@neon hinge Put < > around the URL to cancel preview.
neon hinge
TY
frosty tundra
np ๐
real trail
Im so sorry lol
neon hinge
Random img w/out context.
real trail
Its off topic tho
bleak bloom
versed pebble
Bloody hell...
It's full time at Cardiff Arms Park and the #RedRoses have put in a huge performance against Wales ๐น
random mantle
so apperently garona isnt half human half orc
versed pebble
she's half orc, half Dreanei
random mantle
ye
versed pebble
yup
plus the movie is considered seperate too, which also explains why Garona wasn't anywhere near as ruthless and blood thirsty she is int eh lore
(still good though)
random mantle
yisss
bleak bloom
a month till more lore
random mantle
theres 1 annoying thing to buying the warfoged nightmare i noticed
all your chars get mailed the toy
versed pebble
oh that happens with most things
random mantle
oh
toys/mounts/pets being account wide i'd think itd be best to only mail it to the first char you login to
versed pebble
yeah, they updated it for pets, but not for mounts, I guess cos theres so few, no real point
random mantle
nono the mount is in a giftbox in your mount tab
but it also comes with a toy wich is mailed
versed pebble
yeah, the tack for other players to use
steady fossil
Don't they subtly suggest Garona is half draenei in the movie too?
She talks to them as a translator.
strong quail
steady fossil
Somehow lol
distant crag
๏ผ๏ฟฃ๏ฝใฝใใใใใใใใ๏ผ๏ฟฃ>
ใใใใใ๏ผผใ๏ผโใฝ,ใ ใ/ยด
ใใใใใใ`๏ผ (อก อกยฐ อ ใค อกอกยฐ) /
ใใ ใใ>ใ ใ ใ,ใ
ใใใใใโ _,,,/ยดโ
distant crag
yeah
neon hinge
Supsup
timber crag
with 675, what mythic+ should I aim for?
neon hinge
Mythic leveling
random mantle
so this new hypegame called conan exiles has pretty interesting char creation
wide cipher
so yeah, that conan exiles with its... ahem... 'endowment slider'
you realise that that thing is flaccid when you're adjusting it right? and that when it's erect it's gonna be the size of a freaking subway sandwich and no girl is going to want to get near you and you're never going to be able to wear loincloths or anything ever again because lbr guys are aroused for any number of reasons on a daily basis
like that thing at max slide is just freaking ridiculous okay
neon hinge
lol
wide cipher
I'll never understand why guys obsess about this XD;
It's like girls and how they're always worked up about their breast size. Like okay, seriously? bigger ones A: Get droopy before you're even 22 B: Cause you serious back pain, like throwing your back out at 18 years old pain C: are a pain in the arse if you ever want to wear tank tops or strapless dresses or halter tops D: more than a mouthfull is just not polite anyway?
neon hinge
More than 105C? No thanks xD
So you can really choose penis size in Conan Exiles? lol
wide cipher
Yup XD
A guy did an article about it that included videos and gifs and they are HYSTERICAL
But I don't remember the link and I'd have to tag it NSFW
It did open up my awareness of how carefully y'all have to sit down though
(and by y'all I mean people who have one of those, regardless of their gender)
wide cipher
It was a much needed laugh XD
neon hinge
I'm fishing coins ๐
wide cipher
I need to finish up the fair on a few folks XD
onyx sedge
"because lbr guys are aroused for any number of reasons on a daily basis"
The bigger it is, the more it takes to get erect
So if you're subway sandwiching it, then you're not going to run around with a boner half the time
novel tiger
good morning ๐ฎ
novel tiger
localizer
neon hinge
Gotcha
steady fossil
green```That'a actually blue
neon hinge
Are you sure?
steady fossil
yeah :p
ashen parrot
i see green too
neon hinge
Good, you didn't get fooled ๐
ashen parrot
i was tempted to say it's blue
ashen parrot
it looks blue and black
neon hinge
NEIN
steady fossil
#ANGERY```ANGER OF BLUE
steady fossil
IT's BLUE WHY
south goblet
green
steady fossil
blue for me >:D
south goblet
green
steady fossil
neon hinge
I'd say "ao"
south goblet
[green]
neon hinge
Which means both blue and green ๐
south goblet
/yellow
neon hinge
Orange-ish
steady fossil
more orangey :p
south goblet
yellow
south goblet
Look I can write in Lua ๐
fallen nexus
uh
south goblet
<print("uh")>
bleak bloom
fallen nexus
You guys are having too much fun
bleak bloom
its calm here
south goblet
!lua print("uh")
south goblet
<!lua uh>
versed pebble
you know what this would be good for?
steady fossil
Code?
versed pebble
indeed, for some little program in discord... a bot, you might call it, that tells people when a twitch channel goes live, etc
steady fossil
Unfortunately IFTTT doesn't let you customise as much as you should be able to
It's very rigid
Probably good for very simple things like twitter but terrible for Facebook and such
versed pebble
plus webhooks, although they are classed as bots, actually aren't, they are purely RSS readers
What I'm talking about is something like Mee6, a proper bot with lots of options
steady fossil
That lua bot earlier was pretty neat
You could probably just put that same code in a lua reader though and be fine. That's basically what it is I think.
I have a bunch of webhooks set up in my server for various YouTube videos, twitter notifications, and Facebook posts
wide cipher
yawn
bleak bloom
granny is sleepy
versed pebble
pulls up Grannys favourite arm chair and slippers
neat portal
So close to that 25k. I know I can make it with a few more random daily visits, data up loads and hoping for some more to like my comments. ๐ (which might be sometime next month)
steady fossil
UPGRADE AVAILA
versed pebble
want a cookie?
wide cipher
ooo, what kind of cookie?
versed pebble
triple choccie of course
wide cipher
Yessss I want a cookie.
versed pebble
hands over cookie after washign his hands, cos you know...
wide cipher
has decided that lone is her favorite grandson, even though he's her age XD
wide cipher
Anyway you didn't bring granny cookies XD
steady fossil
:(
wide cipher
Not that this is really a contest because I'm not even really a granny
steady fossil
๐ช
wide cipher
Oooo, cookies.
versed pebble
technically, and sad to say cos I'm 38 aswell, he actually IS a generation below us
considering we're old enough to be his parents
steady fossil
wide cipher
XD
steady fossil
they are :p
wide cipher
Thanks, peach, I feel younger now XD
Though it's possibble to have a 20 year old at 38 if you got started early XD;
steady fossil
:D
neon hinge
Morning
steady fossil
HEJ OCH GOD MORGON
fallen nexus
wut
versed pebble
moin moin
versed pebble
hey @wide cipher
This enough cookie for you?
http://themetapicture.com/pic/images/2015/12/03/cool-food-pizza-cookie-icecream.jpg
neon hinge
keyboardturner - Today at 3:32 AM
now I'm hungry ๐
fresh osprey
thats disgusting
versed pebble
disgusting?!?
g... t... f... o...
neat portal
Looks interesting.
versed pebble
we actually have a cookie company here in teh UK that does cake size cookies, with icing on them
ashen parrot
oh christ
versed pebble
:D
I've had one of these each year for the last 4 years
versed pebble
why north american? why have them all at the same time?
neon hinge
Welp... for streamers that group with viewers It- oh
It's an axe? It's a staff? No, it's a banhammer!
versed pebble
I was exploring in Elite ๐
fallen nexus
No ban was handed out (:
distant pendant
I understand
distant pendant
Thats life
Gotta complete my sql hw in smss ttyl.... db is corrupt due to a memory issue FeelsBadMan
neon hinge
damn
wide cipher
OMG I MISSEDD THIS BUT LOOK AT THAT GIGANTIC COOKIEEEE
neon hinge
jfc?
steady fossil
Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB
wide cipher
I'd appreciate it if you'd not perpetuate he inaccurate stereotype that eating too much sugar is directly responsible for diabetes :P
Because it's untrue, and it's lead to all kinds of hurtful rhetoric tossed at people who've been stuck with hat disease since birth and couldn't even have had too much sugar to give themselves the disease to begin with
Gotta stand up for my Type 1 bros
Even still my type 2 was a hereditary illness I was always going to develop in my 30's even if I'd never touched a lick of sugar (or fatty foods since that's the other one) in my life
And it also leads to people who are newly diagnosed thinking actual sugar has something to do with it, plummeting their blood sugar levels dangerously low as a direct result, and people contracting it sitting around shouting 'but I don't even like sugary foods' as if prevention had anything to do with that factor alone
steady fossil
well... uh... ok....
wide cipher
And maybe you're thinking 'geeze granny chill it's just a joke' but there are jokes that just hurt instead of being funny =\ like fat jokes, and rape jokes, and dumb blonde jokes, and racist jokes, and jokes about mentally handicapped people. :|
steady fossil
I... legitimately thought consuming sugar was linked to cuasing type 2 diabetes for some people...?
wide cipher
It's a tiny factor in a much bigger picture that has to do with more than just balancing your diet
Yes, if you don't balance your carbs - of any kind, not just cookies - you're fucked. But it's more than that
I have a high insulin resistance due to another condition I was born with, one that effects my entire family =|
steady fossil
only thing I have is blurry vision and eventual blindness. My family has had a high history of cancer and such and I've been pretty much the odd one out
pretty much my whole mothers' bloodline was blonde hair and then here I am with brown from my dad lol
and everyone on her side had the eye flap things (because sami) and I have like these half eye flap things I can do when I stretch my nose a little.
wide cipher
Our family is so messed up tbh. We have hereditary high blood pressure, blood sugar, vision loss, heart problems, liver problems, bone spurs/joint issues, psoriasis, Parkinson's, AND cancer. Also mental illnesses.
steady fossil
my family pretty much has all that except everything past the liver :p
but I'm just short >:(
wide cipher
You lucked out!
steady fossil
at 5 feet and 10 inches D:
or something
haven't measured in awhile
MY GRANDPA IS LIKE 7 FEET TALL OK I'M SHORT FOR MY FAMILY :p
wide cipher
Lol
steady fossil
I don't like the approaching blindness though. I know it's coming and that part scares me the most tbh :/
wide cipher
I completely understand that, yeah. My mom is on trifocals and can barely see. And I have a really hard time controlling the vision in my left eye. I have an astigmatism or something?
We can thank diabetes for all that too XD;
steady fossil
I wanna get a cyborg eye when they come out :p
but only 1 at a time
at least I'll have 1 working eye if the cyborg one fails
wide cipher
yessss cyborg eye would be amazeballs
But seriously shortness runs in my family, you'd tower over me.
I'm only 5'4 - and I was 5 and 4 and three quarters but I've reached the part of my life where I start shrinking so thanks gravity
steady fossil
go to space for a little tiny bit :p
wide cipher
XD
distant topaz
Looks like Twitch marathon of Bob Ross is live -> https://www.twitch.tv/bobross
steady fossil
ooo
ever see the Vinesauce Joel streams where Joel paints along with Bob Ross in Mario Paint?
distant topaz
I havent seen that D:
ashen parrot
so brief question
for everyone present
what does "low skill floor" and "high skill floor" mean to you guys
steady fossil
here's one of his shorter videos:
(contains some mature language btw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Re7r-48BzI
low skill floor and high skill floor?
sounds synonymous to skill cap
in which something has a high skill cap, it's hard to master. Doesn't necessarily regard any certain balance or output, just how hard it is to play relative to how much "stuff" there is to track
ashen parrot
no i mean more, what does it mean in a terminology sense
for example, most people appear to agree a high skill ceiling means lots of skill needed to master something
neon hinge
for me low skill floor is that a game/hero is easy to do well with him
steady fossil
._. that's... what I meant by synonymous with skill cap. I've never heard of skill floor.
ashen parrot
there's been some term usage lately mostly in context to how hard or easy something is to pick up, learn, and master.
and those terms are basically skill floor/skill ceiling
personally I prefer more complex discussion on the topic since it kinda needs it and heck, the term skill is so variant in itself
but since people insist on having an argument over what low/high skill floor mean on Overwatch forums, was interested in what people thought it meant.
neon hinge
Lucio is low skill floor for example
ashen parrot
distant topaz
Well to me the "floor" means that how easy it is to do basics of stuff. Like how easy it is to pick up class X and do well with it on basic level. Then work to "ceiling" from the floor
steady fossil
Hm.
neon hinge
SkyLineOW
ashen parrot
i also think low skill floor = easier to pick up
steady fossil
Mathematically (mechanically) difficult
neon hinge
I saw that video
ashen parrot
it bothered me until I took a good hard look at his graph
his "floor" is an effectiveness floor afaict
neon hinge
hmmmm maybe whathe's refering is that Lucio (again) is easy to pick but hard to master
ashen parrot
he said lucio has a high skill floor
specifically pointing out your and my definition of low skill floor
because less skill = more effectiveness
steady fossil
I think it's kind of synonymous with "learning curve," isn't it?
ashen parrot
except...idk doesn't that make no sense?
not quite
idk how many people subscribe to the logic, but to me a learning curve is a function of time to skill
or some form of progression to skill
neon hinge
ashen parrot
i used character level when analyzing the leveling experience in WoW, for example
because character level is somewhat similar to time
neon hinge
I think he says that low skill floor means no skill = no efectiveness
neon hinge
Yeah because is easy to do well with him
ashen parrot
but his visual seems flawed
neon hinge
And Genji has a hard skill floor because it's not easy to do well
steady fossil
high skill floor sounds like it requires a high level of skill to begin playing with him, with little room to improve. Low skill floor with low skill ceiling sounds like easy to play with little room to improve, whereas high skill ceiling wouldbe a lot of room to improve but easy to pick up
ashen parrot
he even says about as much in the thread
high skill floor doesn't necessarily mean there's little room to improve
steady fossil
idk how easy or hard any characters are to play, I'm just going by how the terms are used
ashen parrot
maybe less, but there are "hard to learn, hard to master" concepts
so a high skill floor and ceiling concept is possible
neon hinge
The "real world" definition is as I outlined in the video. There may be a large group in the gaming community who have changed it, but it will always be confusing to any newcomers because you are using a proprietary definition for floor and ceiling.
If you say that a skill floor is the minimum amount of skill to be "decent" with a hero (which is subjective and will change from person to person,) then a skill ceiling must be. . . what? The maximum amount of skill to be decent with a hero? That doesn't make sense. There is no such thing as "maximum skill", only maximum effectiveness. So it is their definition, not mine, that flip flops between floor and ceiling.
"floor" is a regular, modern term that people use all the time in mathematics and economics. Gaming is the only area where this definition is changed, and I have frequently seen confusion because of this. As long as The gaming community continues to use this weird definition, there will always be confusion.
Then again I accept that my level of angst over this topic may be irrational D:
That?
steady fossil
is that the post? .-.
ashen parrot
and some other stuff, basically
but the problem is his real world example
was this
notice something interesting? Price is the Y axis label.
neon hinge
more price less quantity
ashen parrot
also it's a bit...odd overall
distant topaz
Aaaand the math started, I'm off
neon hinge
That makes sense
ashen parrot
well the thing is just how it was graphed
based on how he graphed it, it's more accurate to call it an effectiveness floor
steady fossil
everything I say is shot down despite having said things exactly like what was later said ._.
neon hinge
xD
ashen parrot
well it's more a matter of trying to find out wtf Skyline is thinking.
i spent some time trying to graph it the other way
things got weird
neon hinge
Been a busy week... poor feed.
steady fossil
you can tap a button rapidly and do 100% normal damage or tap a button at perfect timing and get 150% damage for the mathematically maximum possible outcome... ._.
ashen parrot
that's one way to look at it
i don't think anyone can particularly disagree with a stated example of what the concepts are, but the issue is how to do so mathematically.
since "rapidly" vs "perfect timing" aren't exactly quantifiable.
actually skill in general is hard to quantify
steady fossil
constant rate vs. specifically chosen
ashen parrot
not sure what you're getting at
steady fossil
if I buy a WoW token constantly on average, I'll but them all for about 85k
if I buy a WoW token at its crest prices, I'll get good deals at 60k
neon hinge
Not sure where is this going tbh
steady fossil
well what happens when you button mash vs. when you know what you're doing?
ashen parrot
that's still not exactly a hard value though
that's more of a matter of being knowledgable, which can manifest in quite a few ways
steady fossil
So in that regard, skill = knowledgable?
ashen parrot
sort of
this is the problem of trying to determine what exactly skill means
it's a mix of knowledge, technique, etc.
after all, how can you execute something if you just can't do it, generally physically?
neon hinge
Idk
ashen parrot
anyways, it's largely a matter of semantics that makes me more liable to questioning the aforementioned math. The math is kinda just flawed though compared against terminology.
And then there's the part where effectiveness is pretty similar to skill in a sense
oh well
steady fossil
intelligence vs. wisdom
ashen parrot
sort of, though that's a little easier to understand
neon hinge
Winston vs Zenyatta (?)
steady fossil
skill is kind of a combination of the two
you can be learned on how to play
you can know when to do the thing
you can put both together, but there's still a ----> missing aspect <----
ashen parrot
nah skill requires intelligence, wisdom, and sometimes dexterity ๐
steady fossil
it is kind of just logic. There's missing variables. It isn't that it's "hard to define" because of the already known features. There's things just not defined or misunderstood somewhere along the lines, and not everybody is on the same page for each defining term. there isn't a rigid structure to build off of, so anybody can go to any real conclusion they please so long as THEIR logic is sound
things are missing, things are redundant, etc.
I personally see skill as a combination of human reaction time, wisdom, intelligence, and experience (and maybe physical ability, but physical ability itself can be defined differently). All are variables among everyone.
you can't make a game in which the expected human reaction time is astronomical since that's part of the physical limitation. But you can't make it so predictable that you go to get a drink so that when you come back all you do is hit a button.
distant topaz
Ok this probably wasnt good idea
steady fossil
what
distant topaz
AMR simulation where I would make it sim all possible gears I have in bags ๐
neon hinge
Do you have an intel celeron duo?
distant topaz
No I just have lot of gear it seems ๐
ashen parrot
apparently my reaction time is bad
steady fossil
I'm about 20ms above average :p
which is slower than average ofcourse
this is the test by the way that Vsauce Michael took for his first episode of Mind Field when looking at the before and after effects of Isolationism
and several others included as well
distant topaz
What was the result on that show?
steady fossil
steady fossil
it's a very interesting episode and series in general
first is free tho
it's just that this portion is relevant due to the psychological aspect of what "skill" is
distant topaz
Im sorta glad Vsauce finally gets the "big budget" he deserved ๐
wide cipher
321ms, man I'm awful
ashen parrot
i should do this when i'm rested
steady fossil
this is also gathered data from particular people who know about this. It could be higher or lower than average for what we know
that too
there's a lot of factors for that
you could also take drugs :p (and I don't mean illegal, just in general)
distant topaz
Ah, Sensory deprivation.. Stranger things ๐
ashen parrot
i'd rather not
steady fossil
caffeine :D
distant topaz
I just had coffee and got 208ms avg ๐ฆ
steady fossil
or alcohol ๐
distant topaz
Feels bad man
steady fossil
wat dis
steady fossil
4
random mantle
distant topaz
Ok I watched the Vsauce video and I'm super thankful for it now. Thanks for the share ๐ @steady fossil
steady fossil
:D
noble fable
onyx sedge
The problem with the meihem/joker and Harley piece is thag
That
Like
That is not a great relationship
bleak bloom
time to make wowinterface bigger. i hate the curse client now
karmic hollow
Are they forcing that update for the curse client now? Mine's been popping up telling me it's going to happen wether I like it or not
karmic hollow
Ugh I do no want the new one
versed pebble
time to move to wowinterface then
bleak bloom
gonna look what addon is missing there and annoy the dev of the addon
versed pebble
hey @storm agate just saw your pics on twitter from last night, very pretty ๐
storm agate
thanks!
versed pebble
did you make that dress?
storm agate
nope, japanese designer
versed pebble
I was just sent the email info for the new Final Fantasy 14 (MMO) expansion out this year.. looking at what it comes with, I don't think we can ever complain about wow expansions every again...
1 new dungeon?!?
versed pebble
yeah
a whole new raid too
so yeah, we can't complain about wow expansions anymore ๐
the collectors edition loks cool though, do like a badass statue
http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/promo/pc/en/en-gb/img/special/4_0_stormblood/img_product_ce.jpg?d76db76v1
wide cipher
The expansion before this came with new areas, new class combos and playable races, flying mounts, housing, raids and dungeons and I think a level increase? So that one was like an expack on steroids. No way they were going to keep up with those standards every time.
versed pebble
this ones got level cap rise from 60 to 70 and new Red Mage class, so seems pretty standard
A new adventure in Ala Mhigo
New jobs, including red mage
New exploration with swimming and diving
Level cap increase from 60 to 70
Changes to the battle system
New areas to explore
A new primalโLakshmi
New dungeon, a new 8-man raidโOmega, and a new alliance raid
The Forbidden Land of Eureka
New gear and crafting recipes
A fourth residential district
Expanded item inventory
and more!
so technically a lot, but less than we're used to with wow though
versed pebble
for how we complain though, we're actually very spoiled by wow though huh?
wide cipher
Yeah, I agree. But it's like - blizzard raised that bar that high. And a lot of the player base can't let that go
wide cipher
I remember when they gave us a pet on the anniversary twice and then the third year showed up, no pet, and everyone screamed
Because getting a pet was 'the standard' and they were 'denying us' something because they were 'being lazy'
versed pebble
but is that them being lazy? or us being entitled kids?
wide cipher
And while I was disgruntled- mainly because we knew a new pet had been datamined and that we hadn't gotten it and it had gone to the cash shop instead- it just got kind of ridiculous that people just expected it
fallen nexus
wide cipher
It's THEIR anniversary and they don't really owe us a thing
versed pebble
well it's true, a portion of the "vocal minority" are whiny entitled kids
well in a way they do, cos without custom, they have no anniversary, so there is a double edge to it
bleak bloom
for the next anniversay i DEMAND a mount a new bg called "bone waste" and lfr for every bc raid!
wide cipher
But if you don't get something the way to handle it isn't to make 59 whiney posts about it and threaten to quit the game
versed pebble
yup
wide cipher
And IIRC, they did make a post as to why we weren't getting a pet and why they couldn't feasibly give us one every single year
fresh osprey
Just remember, the swimming will probably only be in the new areas
versed pebble
and stuck behind a questline and achievement unlock?
wide cipher
Oh yeah. No way they're gonna re do the whole game to put it everywhere
bleak bloom
a quesT? for swimming?
versed pebble
"Congrats! You got your Bronze swimming award! You can now slowly swim in shallow water, with a float!"
fresh osprey
For flying you had to explore a whole area
bleak bloom
"you need to move your arms and legs like a dog"
bleak bloom
thats something i understand
fresh osprey
Not to mention the questline to actually get the flying mount
bleak bloom
"look at the area"
wide cipher
But that's how Final Fanrasy is
fresh osprey
No, the nodes are in specific areas, but you don't know where and unlike Wow zones, they are ridiculously large
bleak bloom
random spawned or a specific point?
wide cipher
NOTHING is getting done without a quest line. Not dying, not your chocobo, no the hairdresser. Nothing
fresh osprey
Also, in last expac, the land was 3D, so a node might appear on your map but you might not be able to find it because it might be in the area above you that you cant get to for like 6 quests
bleak bloom
you cant get a big chicken without an questline?
fresh osprey
Specific point
And you can't do ANYTHING in FF without a quest
Some longer than otherrs
Some a pain in the butt because load times
Not to mention that because everything takes forever, they are making more money
versed pebble
Chocobo
bleak bloom
we have gated stuff
wide cipher
People asked for more quests. Surprise surprise, they change their model to everything is a quest chain, now there's complaints
fresh osprey
More quests, not longer quests
Every different
One means more, varied stories
The other means never ending quest chains where you lose interest
It's why i stopped playing
wide cipher
They gave us the quest model THEY wanted to give us
bleak bloom
fight fight fight
fresh osprey
Lol
wide cipher
Or maybe that game just isn't for you. And that's actually okay
fresh osprey
Now, yeah
I still like a lot of what the game does
Especially the job system
And the music in the game is fantastic
Plus they have player and guild housing
But i cant afford 2 monthly subs
wide cipher
Because 'the player base' is more than just you and they still have plenty of subs who enjoy the game for the very reason you quit
fresh osprey
So WoW wins
Of course
I'm not saying that I'm entitled to be the goal of game design
I'm just saying that what changed weren't the best changes and they still haven't fixed serious issues with the game (such as leveling multiple jobs and it not being completely awful).
It's still a good game
Just could be much better
And if you like it as is, more power to you. Have fun playing.
versed pebble
now I'm back on track for my streams and not punishing myself cos of work, I'm loving LEGION again
wide cipher
I just think we need to move away from this dialogue that equates 'not the style of game I want to play' with 'bad game design'
versed pebble
it's endemic in teh gaming psyche now though Steph
wide cipher
Every game does have its issues - the leveling jobs one for instance
versed pebble
unfortunately it goes along with that "PC Master Race" crap
wide cipher
FF14ARR isn't perfect and frankly no game is, but they gave the wider base exactly what they wanted, and re did their entire game to do it, and all square has from me in that note is respect
wide cipher
I have played and greatly enjoyed the game for lots of reasons, not the least of which was that before I left the players themselves were nothing but open, friendly, and eager to teach newcomers the ropes.
versed pebble
cool
wide cipher
While out playing and gathering I'd get no less than 7 guild invites, all from people who were right there around me, some of them even RP versions of invites, and when we'd screw up in a dungeon they would patiently explain what we did wrong and we'd try again
no whining, no shouting or hate, no ragquitting the dungeon because we wiped omg, etc etc. I can't speak to the way it is now because I hear it's gone 'more elitist'
But back then it was just people everywhere being actually kind to eachother and fun and the game is gorgeous. My reason for placing WoW above it (because I, too, can only afford one sub game right now) had to do with the class system just not being my jam.
I also really loved the UI, it was slick and clean and out of the way
fresh osprey
I wasn't on the - its not designed for me so it's bad thing. I specifically was talking about leveling jobs when i brought up bad game design because it is a ridiculous grind and isn't very fun. I enjoy most of the quest lines, but when I got to the steps to unlock heavensward, i got exhausted with the ridiculous amount of steps involved. It felt like I was being blocked from doing the new content which is really dumb. Wow solves this by letting you skip the content and just do the new stuff.
wide cipher
and i can still remember every character I made, NONE of them were designs I was unhappy with or things i 'settled for' because I couldn't 'get the look right'.
Yeah - the way jobs are leveled IS a bad grind, I'm not gonna argue with that. But then it's an asian MMO, they gotta have that grind somewhere XD
I mean did you PLAY the first one?
fresh osprey
No
wide cipher
there was one quest series. and it unlocked in pieces as you gained levels. levels you basically had to grind out aside from one levequest per day
fresh osprey
I heard it was bad
wide cipher
It was all grind all the time and none of those special events either
wide cipher
and they thought that that was good game design and people - we're talking more than a few hundres - loved that model and played it
fresh osprey
I don't understand why they don't unlock with your level and then you can do them
versed pebble
the first FF14 was god awful
wide cipher
We told them in the beta it wasnt going to fly
Not with the NA players anyway
But there were still people even here in the NA who played that and loved it
So IDEK
karmic hollow
I bought Heavensword about a week or so after release but got annoyed with all of the bridging story quests that I had to spend about 2 weeks doing before it would let me do the actual expansion content
wide cipher
Except that we-'re all different, yeah? And we all like different things. And we all think different things are good for a game. Like for instance, I had no issue witht he way the new levequest system worked, and I actually loved that to get my first mount i had to do a quest series learning how to handle the mount and how to take care of them. It made more sense from an RP standpoint than just 'you're 40, here's a horse'.
Did you need to have done that story to understand why you were in the new xpack?
fresh osprey
No
Not really
It pretty much didn't help
They could extended the cutscene by a min
karmic hollow
Not really. I did end up skipping a ton of the dialog for it, and then only a few cutscenes near the end were what I needed to know why I was going to this new area
fresh osprey
Bingo ^
karmic hollow
There was alll this other crap about some girl and a staff that died and I didn't give a shit. It wasn't until the one big death later on that I started to care
fresh osprey
Yep
It could've been a few short quests with the cutscenes and maybe a better overview cutscene upon entering the sky area
wide cipher
Okay, let me ask you this - are you two the type of people who regularly don't read quest text, hate that there's RP in raids, and skip dialogue when you can?
fresh osprey
Not to mention that you cant skip the hours of intro quests so i had to pay money to do content that isn't even fun
No, I read quest text, love story and don't skip dialogue
It just wasn't interesting
karmic hollow
I don't skip quest text or story stuff the first time around
At least in WoW
In FF, there were times when dialog just dragged on and on
fresh osprey
I played through the entirety of the witcher 3 and skipped nothing. That game was amazing. All of it was interesting. The problem with the Heavensward intro was the lack of interesting and the inclusion of lots of go here, go there, fetch this, get that.
wide cipher
Okay, then I'm just going to concede this point for now. That does sound excessive.
fresh osprey
Not to mention that you had to keep leaving the snow area and go somewhere and then come back and then leave again, so many load screens
karmic hollow
Yea once I got to the new city for Heavensword, it was like a couple more hours of just running around the town talking to people and I just lost interest
versed pebble
trouble with makign an MMO out of a well known and loved RPG franchise, teh RPG has a limited amount of content and everyone plays the main charactrers, in an MMO, thats massively diluted
fresh osprey
Yep
And then you get to the first zone - HEY FLYING
BUT WAIT
It's gated behind not knowing where stuff is, doing a ridiculously long quest chain that doesn't seem to be related and you have to find them.
And you have to do this for each area
It became too monotonous
wide cipher
THAT can be understood as 'we dont wan tyou to use flying to skip content so we're going to make sure you see the content on the ground at least once first"
fresh osprey
That wouldve been fine
But I wouldve loved to unlock flying overall and then unlock each zone once I beat the story
wide cipher
But it sounds like Pathfinder: the grindening
wide cipher
Alright. I shall wave the white flag, not that you're explaining it in detail. XD
now that, even
fresh osprey
It's ok
I like the game
I just wish they listened instead of trying to make more money
Because that's what this is
They want you to keep subscribing but instead of making interesting content
They make endless boring content
wide cipher
Are the quests behind time gates or something?
wide cipher
or could someone wth enough time on their hands grind this out in a day or two
fresh osprey
Because they require going back and forth across the world
No
It would take at least a week if you are playing a couple hours a day
versed pebble
Pathfinder was teh RIGHT WAY TO DO IT
wide cipher
I mean the people who play 12 hours a day XD
fresh osprey
Yeah
versed pebble
it was also how Blizz wanted us to do it
wide cipher
But yeah, that does sound ridiculous
wide cipher
Like I love quest chains and story, but two week's worth to just get into the fresh content is definitely too much.
versed pebble
we should so have this discussion on stream
fresh osprey
Well no
Wait
You misunderstand
The flying stuff was in new zones
The intro stuff was 5-8 hours maybe less
The flying stuff is the awful grind
wide cipher
OH
fresh osprey
But the zones were clearly built for flying
They are awful to navigate on the ground
Lots off little holes that require going all the way around an area
The first zone is worse than Spires of Arak
versed pebble
so it's designed to be natural?
fresh osprey
No
Noooooo
It is designed to have levels
It's a bunch of floating islands
But you might have a hole 5 feet wide that you I can't go across
So you have to spend 10 minutes going the correct way
versed pebble
no, that sounds correct to me
after nearly 40 years of gaming, that sounds correct
wide cipher
I was confused because I thought you were saying it was 2 weeks to even get to the new area, that's not how it is?
But the flying 'grind' is the two weeks of awful quests?
fresh osprey
Yes
versed pebble
that sounds pretty good to me ๐
fresh osprey
Unless you play all day everyday
Then maybe 5 days
But there's a 2 or so hour grind per zone once you have generally unlocked flying
versed pebble
all I'm hearing is you want it handed to you peach, sorry
wide cipher
I mean in that case I'm not sure I'm as willing to wave the flag, I think I'd have to play through it myself.
fresh osprey
No
@versed pebble i like how wow does it
I prefer time gating with reasonable goals vs time grinding with no fun
versed pebble
indeed
fresh osprey
I finished part 1
versed pebble
but not in a zone
versed pebble
brb, all time chart
fresh osprey
The nodes in FFXIV require explorations and are sometimes hidden in weird places, so you might use an online guide
fresh osprey
Ok
wide cipher
I think some of this though has to do with managing expectations. the long time ff14 player does expect that their flying mount is gonna have some kind of quest chain attached to it, if the box says there's gonna be flying. But I don't think anyone was prepared for the length or time investment there'd be for this feature which was advertised as being included with the price of admission.
fresh osprey
Yep
wide cipher
Or at least that's what it sounds like?
wide cipher
So this would be the equivalent of say... showing off that in legion you could have demon hunters but making you play through a 60 hour quest chain on someone unrelated before you could even roll one
versed pebble
well technically that IS the case
versed pebble
same for Death Knight, but are gated by having to have a lvl 60 or 100 already
fresh osprey
Who start at a lower lvl
I wish DKs started at 70 noww
It's not necessary anymore
versed pebble
well teh DK start area needs revamping
fresh osprey
And story wise it makes no more sense
versed pebble
anyway, brb
well it does, cos they are at that point int eh timeline
gah, talkover... runs
wide cipher
Yeah, when you roll a DK you're 'going back in time' to WOTLK
fallen nexus
I've learned something today
I'm somewhat of a troll in Rainbow Six: Siege
^ proof
wide cipher
I'm ... not sure why that's trolling XD;
fallen nexus
I figured the oversized shield, teabagging, and then the clothes-line with said shield would be sufficient enough to qualify.
fallen nexus
I missed all of the bullets, proceeded to teabag him, then smacked him with the shield.
wide cipher
I had no idea that's what was going on, haha
I thought teabagging was only for corpses
But hell if using the big shield is trolling then they must have thought I was a huge troll when I went the big shield + knife route in COD:AW
this randomly reminds me of a friend back on Silver Hand I used to have whose name was Hebreukles, who said that he didn't teabag corpses but instead took their foreskins, becaue they were going to make their contracts with God whether they wanted to or not.
wide cipher
Well I realise now that it was a very anti-semitic roleplay, but back then I just thought he was actually RPing a very rude jew. XD;
wide cipher
What! Everyone makes mistakes, even me!
versed pebble
not THAT sort of mistake
wide cipher
You have no idea how naive I was 10 years ago
Back then I didn't think people were actually that mean.
versed pebble
yeah...
wide cipher
And now I'm forever stuck with this memory about teabagging, which honestly isn't that nice a practice to begin with
steady fossil
lol
versed pebble
well, depends if the recieving party enjoys it or not
wide cipher
(btw someone had to first explain to me what that even was, because I kept mentally picturing an actual tea bag)
In the context of FPS games? Proooobably not
versed pebble
this is teabagging right?
wide cipher
lol
dire quartz
lol