ye
#creator_dlc_discussion
plush geyser
muted narwhal
on all platforms
median lintel
Gee, I wonder why you might be getting a lot of arguments back at you, if you keep joking it's about them being poor =/
🤷
plush geyser
we're making jokes about them being poor because they haven't made any good arguments outside of "but make it for all players"
median lintel
You cannot utilise the content within a community if you don't expect to alienate people, which is against the ethos of a community, where as with most previous content, you were able to. BI acknowledge this isn't ideal, and that's just the situation. Continuing to state that they should just have more money, or that they want it for free, and then wondering why people keep saying that's not the issue, is why it's circular.
How about that one?
plush geyser
if they'd make a valid argument outside of "but previous dlc's have been for all players"
we'd be more responsive
that's much better.
tribal dragon
Okay. I probably won't buy it because I cannot do the same with my group like with previous DLCs. As in utilize it in missions and use the assets for an opfor.
median lintel
It's what most people I've read have been saying, but people keep saying they want it for free, despite them saying otherwise
tribal dragon
I don't mind the price tag either way.
BUT. Id wager more people would buy it if they treated it like previous DLC.
median lintel
I will personally be buying it, my community will not be using it, that's a shame.
muted narwhal
@median lintel
it
is
not
a
compulsory
buy
tribal dragon
A large majority of Arma players play in groups In believe.
muted narwhal
just understand that it works just like mods do - you do not own it, you cannot use it
median lintel
Great point, how does that detract from my point?
tribal dragon
Yeah he wasn't saying it was compulsory?
muted narwhal
because you keep saying it will split, will break the community, i cannot make it mandatory
regal shuttle
talking about alienation in capitalism world.
let me laugh
little rampart
@tribal dragon it worked now because BI was very generous with their DLC - that ONLY worked because if they wouldnt be that way, nobody would have actually bought them, as all in all their scope and content was very small.
little rampart
no
median lintel
No, I said it won't be used by many communities, because if they did, they'd face that issue, where as they haven't (for the most part) in the past. That's why many communities state they don't require Apex.
muted narwhal
@violet cypress i have said it in relation to RHS, i have said it in relation to Apex which i worked on
none of the DLCs are mandatory
neither are the mods
you choose to use it or not
in this case, using it means forking some money
tribal dragon
I've already talked with my unit. Most won't buy it because it isn't to their taste (Cold war). Some of us want to use it some don't. I don't think it will split up units like some people are saying.
muted narwhal
on this one, and the ones that will follow
tribal dragon
But. I would bet they'd get ALOT more people who would buy it.
median lintel
Does that answer your question?
muted narwhal
i for one (had already been roasted for that) will buy it for personal reasons, i have little interests for the timeframe and area depicted
wide steppe
For the record - has it been stated why GM/BI choose to do it this way instead of the old way? Just curious, won't change me buying/not buying it
little rampart
not really TOOT (as far as im aware)
tribal dragon
I know Tanoa for our unit is like that. About half have it. And almost all who have bought it was so they could use the Tanoa assets in missions.
delicate pumice
@T00T Think it's just the difference between in-house development and out-sourcing, couple with the fact that their focus is on future projects now.
little rampart
also this way with GM is "The older way".
muted narwhal
older way = A1 way, since A2 was shitty textures and low poly models
little rampart
if people can join and still see and enjoy content that they didnt pay for - then yes that is free.
delicate pumice
You want a version of it for free.
median lintel
A3 = Pop up notification, and blocked from driving vehicles etc. I personally think they shouldn't be able to use the content at all, just be shot at/shoot it.
delicate pumice
So don't, move on,live long, prosper.
crude mortar
Who cares who buys it and doesn’t . This is getting ridiculous.
median lintel
And that's what we're doing
muted narwhal
doesn't look that way
median lintel
How?
tribal dragon
Oof.
muted narwhal
because i had the same fucking circle jerk discussion earlier on today, with you
median lintel
I have not once said I will be making my community use the mod, what?
delicate pumice
i think he was suggesting that you're not taking the 'moving on' bit properly to heart.
muted narwhal
^^
median lintel
So I can't say it's a shame big communities won't use it, but it's okay to be in here saying it's great all day?
delicate pumice
shame for BI, shame for GM team
muted narwhal
would have it been better for the ones unwilling or unable to pay to have 3rd party DLCs just like the rest of the DLCs, yes
could that been achieved from a technical POV, maybe
could that been achieved from a legal POV - considering IP and ownership (that includes legal and support responsibilities as well), in relation to a binding contract between parties - unlikely
this is what you get, arguing over it is not gonna change it
timid mountain
shame for ppls who don't have 20 bux to throw away
median lintel
Right, but please don't act shocked when people get annoyed when you state it's over them being poor (because as you know, it's not exactly that), or that they just want free stuff.
timid mountain
credit to bi for letting good modders make dlc. credit to dlc team for makng it
wide steppe
Even througth I agree with dutch and bosen, arguing over it will really not change anything, so what's the point tbqh. In the end it won't change
muted narwhal
@median lintel but i didn't say that they are poor
median lintel
I agree, and I only joined in the conversation because someone else had just mentioned it, and again the same counter points were raised that don't do that justice.
muted narwhal
i said, they are unwilling to pay for it
because they got used to getting stuff for free
timid mountain
i think you are on to something there pufu
cant quite put my finger on it but you might be right
muted narwhal
no one really forces anyone to be a first day buy
arctic seal
👆
delicate pumice
if they're not poor then that's the only explanation
timid mountain
chris lutz does
muted narwhal
considering this is steam released, there will be discounts
median lintel
I know the amount of blood and sweat that goes into these projects, I've made many mods for my community, we have weekly scripted missions that last 4 hours, etc. It's just a problem for big communities, and it's a shame, that's all.
wide steppe
Argument then can be made that many games let people without a DLC play with ones that own it, just that the one that own it get to shoot the fancy gun, while the ones who dont own it only get shot by this new gun
Since somebody asked for other arguments then the ones being repeated 24/7
wide steppe
Or uniforms/skins, vehicles being big guns etc. Ofc wouldnt work with the map, not arguing for that one
muted narwhal
considering GM doesn't fit within A3 timeframe
how would you use that content (island excluded)
wide steppe
Rebels is best I can think of, so fair point
tribal folio
Less economically powerful national arsenals?
faint moss
Bikes though
wide steppe
But example was mostly about that it works with other games, like god forbit me saying this but it was brought up earlier - the super futuristic COD's have WW1/WW2 guns in dlc's
muted narwhal
that got the accurate and real weapons, while everything else is made up, ok
tribal folio
Eh, in 2035 verse, that's not really an issue
muted narwhal
and BF X has ww1 weapons with holographic scopes
i already said, it would have been better for everyone that is unwilling to pay for this DLC
wide steppe
Just trying to come up with a thought for the sake of it, agree it's not the best one )
Either way choice should be as simple as - you like east/west germany? buy it - dont like it? Dont buy it
I like it so I will
muted narwhal
i am pretty sure just as well, that there are some that don't care much about the timeframe or location either (like myself) but would have a few games with the content if their buddies would get that
wide steppe
Sadly not everybody will be able to play it if they dont buy it - but then why would they want to pay for something they didnt want to play anyway?
tribal folio
My community is probably an outlier in that we actually like 1980s stuff enough that this probably will be mandatory
wide steppe
Thats a fair point too, @ pufus last
muted narwhal
i will buy it because mondkalb, and i think all the years of work are worth my pennies
wide steppe
Yeah that too, I think I have been following GM for 4 years now
muted narwhal
that said, i get some of the issues raised
delicate pumice
And the interiors Pufu
wide steppe
hoping next DLC/mod is CSLA )))
tribal folio
I vaguely remember the acronym of CSLA - but not really. What's that?
prime locust
People are treating it like its the same as an official DLC
wide steppe
Czech Peoples army in Czech @tribal folio
or CzecoSlovak Peoples Army*
People = Ludina/Lidino or something
so C S L A
median lintel
The tone is probably the same reason they have issues with yours PuFu, face different concerns of variant priority, and that's okay
muted narwhal
@median lintel you don't see me typing this sort of shit though
Groove_C: lol, no helis/jets = fail
wide steppe
agreed with bosen, was gonna say that too more or less. It's less that people are bitching and more that people are just conveying their thoughts in different ways, which creates conflict between peoples differences
median lintel
And I haven't either
wide steppe
@ pufus last is ofc bitching, but I was reffering to that hehe~
muted narwhal
you got triggered because i said that people who cannot afford to pay 22$ for a game they actually use and got thousands of hours out of it should do something else with their free time
median lintel
I responded to this: https://i.imgur.com/HLC8u4p.png
muted narwhal
let me rephrase that for you, because i do not believe a second any adult in this world owning a PC that can run A3 decently cannot afford that 22$
wide steppe
tbqh x2, even througth I agree with bosen and dutch x2 - gaming is an expensive hobby, especially when buying a (somewhat?) AAA title.
Paying for a DLC that costs 20$ for arma once a year isn't as bad as buying the latest COD/BF/whatever every year - that costs 60$ for ~half the package
cunning nacelle
Are we still waiting on clarification on the server requirement? Aka dedmen' and candle's questions
muted narwhal
i can list here what i can get with that 22$ in terms of entertainment, and it isn't much
median lintel
This is why you've been arguing all day, and that's what I originally said, you should move on ;)
plush geyser
it's not needed on dedicated servers iirc
steady nest
@vocal pawn it bugs me a lot that when they first announced this new angle, everyone was like "guys, this is a bad idea", and BI did absolutely nothing to address it and just carried on. Were you around when Arma 3 was initially announced/original iteration revealed, much less when its post-DayZ/post-Bohemia's Winter From Hell direction was revealed?
muted narwhal
@median lintel yeah, i was talking directly about mods
cunning nacelle
pardon, are we still waiting for clarification on dedmen's question: What if server doesn't have it enabled. But a player with it enabled joins the server? Will the player just not be allowed to join any servers that don't have the DLC activated? Also what does "that runs GM" mean? If the server has it loaded, but is playing a mission on Stratis with only vanilla weapons. Does that count as running GM?
muted narwhal
people expect mods to be free, because that is how it used to be
it wasn't in direct relation to your own comments, was a general thought
and i wasn't talking about GM here, i was talking about actual A3 mods
arctic seal
Will the player just not be allowed to join any servers that don't have the DLC activated?```
if thze DLCs have the keys working as mod keys, the one with the DLC loaded will not be able to join a server that has the DLC disabled@muted narwhal best keep actual mod discussions out of the Creator_DLC channel then, if it'll cause misunderstandings
muted narwhal
sure, then stop comparing a 3rd party DLC with any other existing and released mod out there to begin with
minor portal
Are their any other Creator DLC's coming soon? and will it also have the same issue where if any asset of GM is used, will it require the DLC to join the mission/gamemode?
tribal folio
Not as has been announced yet @minor portal
steady nest
And as far as I understand that policy will be the case for the subsequent DLCs (by default?)
wide steppe
I wonder if this would've been different if GM team members literally all joined BI and this was released as an official DLC
tribal folio
But then BI would have had to hire them and devote that much more resources to this
steady nest
Thereby negating the point (from Bohemia's end)...
median lintel
No, if the implementation with the above technical limitations were the same - we don't personally use Jets for example, but it's not a problem, because those with it can still join our server etc.
wide steppe
Ofcourse, not syaing they should've. Just wondering if the reaction would've been the same
and aswell - not about the technical limitations - just pureply not calling it "creators DLC"
but "BI testing new ways to use DLC"
median lintel
I do agree there's a small group against anything paid, much less a paid mod, but it's the implementation as someone who runs a couple of servers and helps manage a community that are of concern to me.
wide steppe
minor portal
My Milsim community is from Australia so we're expecting the DLC to cost over 35 bucks. We're just wondering if more creator dlc's come out, are we going to experience the same issue as seen with GM with no joining missions that contain a single GM object or asset.
steady nest
Admittedly I doubt this that the DLC would have occurred (in response to T00T) because there's a lot more content for Bohemia to be on the hook for QA/post-launch support-wise in Global Mobilization than in Jets (the previous 'collaboration with an outside team' DLC)
tribal folio
The prices are expected to vary by how much actual work was clearly put in, apparently
wide steppe
tbh, isn't this "DLC" the largest one yet?
median lintel
For example, this isn't a problem for our DCS server due to the way they implement third party aircraft
wide steppe
and will also be continuisly updated with more content
wide steppe
Yeah, exactly
minor portal
Got no issues paying for it, just the whole "you dont have insert creator dlc so you cant play tonight. Just can see it splitting units up is all
wide steppe
if anything, soon enough somebody will rip it out anyway Wait somebody said something ?
For the record I didn't mean it )
minor portal
I honestly think mods like RHS and stuff should be paid aswell with the quality they pump out. I like to support the people who make arma great.
wide steppe
I agree that the quality of good mods is payment worhty, but lets not break what is already working
muted narwhal
@minor portal there will be more if they pass QA and deadlines are met
tribal folio
The way I expect split community sessions to happen atm, is that Non-GM missions will be played first, then GM missions will purge non-users automatically while users go on to play the GM missions.
This happened with Tanoa for us
steady nest
@minor portal RHS got paid via MANW... and as much as people complained about that, the Creator DLC 'pitch invitation' and answers given back then suggested that 'something in that vein' would be the most likely candidates for paid modding anyway, since Bohemia all but ruled out 'primarily scripted stuff' proposals
faint moss
Paid mods? Skyrim paid mods flashbacks
tribal dragon
Maybe. Unfortunately some groups are too small or don't want to invest the time for that. We never play on Tanoa personally. Which kinda sucks. I'll use the shit out of the assets for Opfor guys though.
muted narwhal
@steady nest lol, RHS won a competition, wasn't paid anything
minor portal
yeah which is fine, I got no issues in paying and neither does my unit. We just dont want this trend of "No DLC, no join" to continue because I can see it causing issues is all
wide steppe
@faint moss Todd Howards would like to know your location
muted narwhal
@minor portal pretty sure the system of distribution and its limitations
will be the same for all future (possible) 3rd party DLCs
i would expect as much anyways
tribal dragon
@minor portal like I said earlier. For my group about half won't buy it. Either because they don't just expend money like that, or it doesn't fit what they want. Which means we won't use it as a group. I have no problem paying for it either. But if I wouldn't get to use it. Then I have other things I can spend my money on.
wide steppe
Until arma 4 release that is, right?.. jk
minor portal
Dang, thats sad to hear. I thought they'd just do what they did previously and put a Watermark or whatever on the screen
steady nest
@T00T As far as I know Bohemia's looking to see how this goes before deciding on any DLC direction for Arma 4
minor portal
I see both sides on the issue. To use RHS as aan example, their team i imagine is huge and after talking to friends, RHS is pretty much the whole reason people play. 2035 content just isnt enjoyable for most people. I think teams like them deserve to be paid for their amazing work is all
wide steppe
the "watermark" way of doing it was the cool guys way and ofc the users liked it, but the people @ bohemia have mouthes too feed
timid mountain
gotta agree on that
muted narwhal
You need to own Creator DLC and have it installed to be able to join a multiplayer server that makes use of it. If you try to join a server without having the requested Creator DLC installed, you will receive a notification that you are missing content that is needed to play on the server. For more information please also see the previous question regarding the optional installation of Creator DLC.
this is an overview for every creator DLC
https://arma3.com/dlc/creator
minor portal
Ooo ok ill go have a read
muted narwhal
@minor portal the team ss actually not huge, but again we go offtopic
tribal dragon
Per the link doing it in the optional manner is a moot point. To keep from requiring more HDD storage. In the days of 100$ 1TB SSDs meh.
minor portal
My apologies, was just going off my experiences n shit. Ill go have a read now
muted narwhal
@tribal dragon where is that excuse from if you don't mind me asking?
ahh nevermind, yeah, i though it was from BIF ok
wide steppe
cant attatch image, but your link ctrl+F the word "storage"
cunning nacelle
@muted narwhal In terms of how this is actually enforced, is there the possibility of having the server set to not enforce exact dlc/mods? So that the requirement for the DLC only occurs as cfgpatch requirements in a mission
muted narwhal
@cunning nacelle no idea, i am not part of any of the DLC pitches
not sure how that is gonna work, but good question
i would assume it should work just like with any mod out there
it can be loaded, but unless the mission requires that content, it is fine
just like it happens when you switch from a mission from malden to tanoa for instance, when everyone who doesn't own apex is booted
cunning nacelle
That's what I'm hoping.
tribal dragon
@muted narwhal yeah sorry. Should have quoted it exactly. But yeah. If that's the reason they did optional vs how they use to, I personally think switching pack to the old way would be better, cause more purchases, and get less fuss.
But either way. I'll at least check it out. And even though I shouldn't buy it I probably still will. Hopefully I can get the rest of the group on board.
But it is a massive effort and they definitely should reap the reward for that. The map alone if it is actually nice sounds fucking great and refreshing.
muted narwhal
i for one wouldn't want the content i spent countless hours to work on, to look like A2 DLC non owner content looked like
tribal dragon
What do you mean? I'm not familiar @muted narwhal
muted narwhal
in A2 (which is what i assume you mean by old way)
wild tree
Low res DLC(BAF, PMC) from a2
tribal dragon
I never said anything about the oldway.
Ahhh.
Gotcha.
I had Arma2 but never played it a whole lot.
cunning nacelle
"the game just has low res textures!"
muted narwhal
I personally think switching pack to the old way would be better
tribal dragon
Yeah. I was a fan of how they handled it in A3. Watermark and eventually tell you you can't
Sorry.
When I meant Old way. I meant how BI A3 DLC is handled.
muted narwhal
so you had shitty textures and low res models
tribal dragon
My bad.
muted narwhal
and no watermarks for people who didn't own it
in A3, they switched over to the watermarks
timid mountain
some people have tudor pcs that are operated by a vast pulley system driven by a watermill tho pufu.. they don't care if game is lowres xD
muted narwhal
which are more intrusive and obvious, but without downgraded stuff
tribal dragon
Yeah that's what I meant. Was doing third party DLC the way BI handled their A3 DLC.
muted narwhal
@timid mountain are they the same ones that the game is not optimized?
steady nest
Truthbetold the A2 way was doomed once I saw a Bohemia dev at a game dev conference giving a presentation that (in part thanks to DayZ) people kept mistaking BAF/PMC/ACR assets for 'representative of the quality of the base game', thus the priority to ensure a more consistent quality in A3
timid mountain
the exact same
wide steppe
so A2 "old way" is basicly what IFA3 A3 mod had going for a while if you didnt own the actual game?
timid mountain
hoow did you know pufu?
tribal dragon
I also say that as a mission maker for my group. I love being able to use assets in mission as Opfor and basically being locked from the map if people don't own.
timid mountain
they are also the same lot who complain about why a jungle map from 2016 doesn't run as good as takistan
tribal dragon
Opens up possibilities with base game.
muted narwhal
@wide steppe yes
wide steppe
Gotcha, thx
arctic seal
in a2, yes
wide steppe
to quote PuFu, "yes"
steady nest
Although afaik IFA3 for years was tied up in Iron Front: Liberation 1944's assets not being the property of Bohemia (who licensed Real Virtuality 3) but rather Deep Silver and AWAR/X1
muted narwhal
@steady nest everyone was confused about that, looked like shit, everyone one was like - duck that, not worth my penny, the content is terrible
again, bad marketing
faint moss
Still isn’t it preferable to getting an annoying watermark or popup?
wide steppe
implying everything doesn't already look like shit on my potatoe
faint moss
Just pretend you have the game on low settings
muted narwhal
it was worse than low settings
steady nest
My guess is that Bohemia determined (due to what PuFu said) that the watermark/pop-up and 'you can't pick up' would lose them less sales (crucially, of A3 the base game) than low-res textures/sounds would
wide steppe
Minecraft would look good compared to that @ danish
muted narwhal
also, Still isn’t it preferable to getting an annoying watermark or popup?, it depends who you ask...from a user perspective, maybe, from a company trying to sell a product nope
faint moss
Hey Minecraft looks amazing
wide steppe
also true ^
faint moss
With shaders mod
steady nest
Difference is that Minecraft wasn't expected to look better than 'Minecraft at its worst'...
wide steppe
Even without /offtopic
arctic seal
oh i was awful... if one did not read the description, one would have never guessed he's playing BAF extention. it was that bad
muted narwhal
the entire problem with low res thing
was it wasn't that obvious
to the user that he is having low res shit because he doesn't own that content
wide steppe
Is that why you nailed it hard that the DShK sight is supposed to be up to RHS standars so much? ) Speaking of which...
muted narwhal
in any case, i cannot actually compare the 2, since i never had pop-ups on A3 dlcs as i have supporter edition
@wide steppe yes, but OT
wide steppe
mm, switching
arctic seal
i was playing arma 2 on ultra low res at 15fps, so i didn't even notice at the beginning that the DLCs textures where that bad 😄
frail vine
Laptops were brutal in my arma 2 days
muted narwhal
🥔
steady nest
I believe A2's method was designed on an assumption of 'we peaked as far as (base game) sales so we can imagine that everyone who might get the DLC will be able to learn about our DLC policy before buying and thus there'll be some common knowledge'... DayZ broke that view hard
arctic seal
no @muted narwhal
my rig wasn't a potato back then. it was something worse 😄
wide steppe
Relateable 100%
muted narwhal
i upgraded between A1 and A2
wide steppe
Had to upgrade because my GPU didn't support DirectX 9...
frail vine
I upgraded when i got out of high school
muted narwhal
all my perf increased in A1 went down the drain for A2
well, had to upgrade again 1 year later
faint moss
That’s PC parts for you
When buying parts you have to consider if they’ll be able to support future games
wide steppe
When buying parts you have to consider if your wallet'll be able to support your future*
faint moss
I like how you wrote the same sentence again instead of just editing the original one.
muted narwhal
OT ^
wide steppe
next CDLC when???
muted narwhal
conclusion of the day is the obvious one
- you like the 3rd party content- buy it,
- you don't like it / can't afford it / not willing the shell the shekels then don't,
whining is useless because the system of distribution and use is unlikely to change
end of thread
minor portal
^
regal shuttle
NB: for further complaints please use https://www.change.org/
minor portal
hahaha im sure someone will do one
regal shuttle
more useful than whining where no one will read you
but old community members who have nothing better to do in their life 😢
minor portal
Im just keen to see what else is in the works!
faint moss
Like Arma 4?
arctic seal
Like Arma 4?
you'Re a little behind, arent you?
it's not called "arma 4" anymore
minor portal
Well yeah obviously but also the other creator DLC
wide steppe
"Creators Arma 4 realease" confirmed? )
arctic seal
"whenwhenwhenwhenwhinecrywishwhen 4"
minor portal
Hahahahahaha
wide steppe
I guess this is gonna continiously go offtopic until somebody comes up with a new reason why the DLC should be free?
steady nest
Alternately "No Shower Until Arma 4"
arctic seal
smell you later, alligator
wide steppe
official announcment: Arma 4 has been cancelled, instead we are getting Arma: Hardline - a police shooter simulator !
dry leaf
i mean i wanted some arma police missions
wide steppe
have you considered robbing a store or arma life?
dry leaf
1- i dont play arma 3 to just do my job again
2- I won't play that accursed gamemode
UwU
now we just force the GM guys to make this same mod but for the USSR and USA
wide steppe
I'd pay them 5$ and a free copy of CS:GO for that, that should be enough, right?..
arctic seal
i'd pay with my soul if i still had one. i sold it to CUP a long time ago
dry leaf
When is CUP adding factions from arma 4?
arctic seal
ofc! It will be only #350 preorder
crisp blade
#350 is not fair that'll split my community /s
Its not fair theres not a 24/7 hotline for when I install 440 mods and for some reason this one doesn't work
give me more free things
tribal folio
Don't worry, <large offtopic company> is offering <offtopic game> for free right now! (actual thing)
That aside, I think Dedicated servers aren't going to run GM by default?
Basing this guesstimate off the mention towards a smaller data package I saw.
Basically from what I've gathered, there's a new tickbox dedicated to running GM in the launcher - making it functionally a mod even if it's a DLC - and Non-GM servers can blacklist that, preventing Personal Arsenal GM users from causing havoc?
crisp blade
I am suprised how much complaint there is considering how much content is available and it caters to SP and COOP people
I think it gives us more NEW stuff than APEX did
inner oyster
I don't think anyone's actually complaining about the mod itself
elfin reef
crisp blade
If its the pricing, I can kinda understand, but having it locked to the people who pay is different to Bohemias current model sure, but its not different to how most games hand le a DLC
its also much cheaper for much more IMHO than most of the other BIS DLC
at arguably the same quality
sinful cape
personally i feel like the 50/50 revenue split is kinda harsh. especially because steam wants their cut as well of course
sinful cape
if i remember right, steam takes 25%
sinful cape
that means the 20 initial moneys are already just 15
crisp blade
thats why the EPIC store shit happened
and they only take like 15 or 20
but thats a different can of shit
sinful cape
ok, let's make it 30%. suddenly the 20 moneys are only 7 moneys for you
now the question is, how many folks will buy it?
sinful cape
we know that laws of war was played by at least 60k people. but this dlc was big. certainly not the same playground as third party dlc
crisp blade
I think this DLC is more content for similar money though
I know not everyone is seeing it that way and is upset about it being a paid mod
sinful cape
amount of content doesnt matter. question is, how many players will want to shell out money for it
crisp blade
I'd hope similar or more than wanted to for apex
Regional pricing is going to hurt some people though
It may be only $22 USD but its about $34 AUD
so its a bit pricey here. Been discussions in my community about it all day
inner oyster
Yeah I'm Aus too and our group has Filipinos in it, the exchange rate on Filipino Pesos to USD isn't great so it's gonna be even more expensive for them to get this DLC
crisp blade
We do too actually and I understand that may be a bit of a hike. But previous DLC's has never "fractured" our community or others we know of. It just means you have seperate nights to use the content. Its unlikely in my groups setting to have been a big impact on our normal play anyway
granite plank
I'm actually the one in charge of LordTrollington's group
I really doubt, with our every-second-weekend organisation, that we're ever going to actually use it
out of our like 25 regulars, of which 20 usually show up to sessions, probably only half will buy it
so I'll use it personally, but unlikely to ever use it with the group, which is disappointing
narrow cradle
It just means you have seperate nights to use the content.
our community tried this with mods back in the A2 days (we're a vanilla community otherwise). It basically led to the community fracturing and a bunch of people leaving. So of course we're very vary of a repeat, especially given how much smaller our active player base is these days.
Which is a shame, given GM's content is what we wish main A3 was.
inner oyster
I know the same was said about apex too, maybe over time enough people buy it
narrow cradle
@ garshne - we used to be a bit larger than that, now we're half your size, so yeah... it's going to be an issue
granite plank
it took us two years to get everyone to get Apex lmao and some of us still don't have it
and that's with our richer fellas buying it for the poorer ones as well
it's probably going to be a similar timeframe with GM
looking forward to cold war weekend scheduled in 2021 😁 🤗
inner oyster
Yeah so possibly resolvable in the future but for right now its not viable
narrow cradle
difference of course (vs apex) being that we're 6 years into A3's life cycle, raising barriers of entry seems to be the worse way of going about it...
granite plank
I understand why they can't do the same thing as with other DLC though
wrt access and that
I don't know the exact reasons, but I know there must be some reason why they won't
narrow cradle
so yeah, maybe in 2 years people will have it... but question is will people still be playing the game by then, outside of dedicated closed communities?
granite plank
and it did take a while until Apex stopped kicking people off for having assets in other missions
inner oyster
Yeah they made apex assets available to all for precisely that reason
wide oar
I'm sure they will smooth it out in the future
crisp blade
Look i also understand every community is different, but im personally suprised that non closed community arma still exists. I just don't understand it. I know our community will use it seperately to other normal weekly stuff.
granite plank
I wish my group could do weekly ;_;
crisp blade
An aussie group?
granite plank
international
crisp blade
Theres a couple not including ours that do more than weekly that im envious of
Ah fair enough
Id imagine coordinating that many times is hard
we got a guy in SK and a guy in Philli and Denmark they all kinda just adjusted to majority NZ and AUS
closing on 40 on our weekly runs now
granite plank
honestly what happened with weekly is that everyone just burnt out on playing arma all the time. we were just a group of friends before we started doing arma
crisp blade
i understand smaller groups may find it hard to do stuff with GM
granite plank
so two weeks arma schedule, in between we play other stuff. or just sleep in my case
we've actually got 45 people but only about half can regularly make it to a session
dapper ore
Pretty off topic in this question, sorry. Don’t know many Aussie groups who get 40 people. Who you with @crisp blade
narrow cradle
no advertising so probably follow this up in pm
crisp blade
Happy for you to PM me man, sorry if we went off topic. Group I'm in and another I know that I'm good friends with gets those numbers.
I guess it was partially on topic unless you mean you asking me aha
@dapper ore
dapper ore
Yeah was to do with me asking you yeah haha. All good though. Was just curious.
silver crystal
Are people still bitching about the price?
Or am I late again?
Because it's simple: Pay or don't pay, but stop trying to estimate others work 😩
untold oracle
I didn't see a single person complain about price...
silver crystal
Oh there are a lot of people saying "It's too expensive" and bla bla bla
pearl willow
They are not complaining about the price, they want to have access to the weapons and assets for free and for everyone. Still mistaking this Creator DLC with the Vanilla DLC policies...
untold oracle
Not for everyone! But just like BI DLC is
We are not mistaking it, we are saying it shouldn't be different in that aspect
red saddle
@timid mountain if you own the dlc and your friends dont' they will be albe to join your game if you HAVE NOT USED ANY GM UNITS IN THAT MISSION FILE
So that means if we give people access to arsenal they'll run around in invisible uniforms with invisible weapons?
That is a really bad option. I don't see a good way to solve that.
The Arsenal doesn't have a "only show what the server has" filter. Especially not when running mods with 3rd party arsenals.
The same issue existed with mods since forever. Load a mod that others don't have, take a gun of mod in arsenal, others see you running around with invisible gun.
As far as to what I heard so far, BI doesn't even know how to solve it themselves yet. We'll just have to wait.
@wraith sleet I keep thinking that BI is starting to get into financial trouble I don't think they'd split 50/50 if they were in trouble.
@rare epoch if that doesn't happen any mod that requires the DLC is a no-go for quite a few people. not happening. And I already heard of half a dozen people who think the same and are sad that they will have to miss so much content now that will depend on the dlc.
@timid mountain what you can use is definied in the mission file run on the sever and limited by the server content not if it's spawned via script. See the likes of Koth and so forth. Most framework missions Liberation,Domination,Koth,Wasteland spawn stuff via script and it will NOT be defined in the mission file. That is the main issue.
Not a problem with Apex as you still have the models and textures installed even if you don't own it. But it's a problem with the Creator DLC's.
I'm answering everything I missed overnight. Will take me a while to get to the bottom.
To anyone who notices that some of their messages got deleted: Read #rules and follow them.
ashen belfry
Troll has been removed, so previous conversations may seem a bit out-of-sync
red saddle
Okey done reading. Let's drop my text document
@little rampart download free... sure then everyone has to download 200GB creator dlc content in future Can still keep the download optional.
steam takes 40% (or 30%?) 30.
@fringe python Will we be able to buy the upcomming dlc's in a bundle again? too soon to say.
Can't do a bundle before the DLC's are released, because you can't tell people what to expect, and also can't guarantee that you'll release the DLCs that were planned in time.
In a community, regular mods that have a dependency on this paid DLC can not be used unless all players have the DLC correct. I think that's the main concern together with also not being able to play the DLC itself in communities because not everyone will have it.
Man your McRib and burger metaphors.
I have a better one. It's like when you go into a jewelry store.
Old normal DLC's you could walk in, and look at the jewelry which was stored behind glass, but you could only take them in hand if you already own it.
New Creator DLC you are not let into the front door, and the display window on the outside is painted over with black paint, IF you don't already own the jewelry.
Now as I wrote above in my answer to @fringe python. Imagine you walk along with your friends. They say "oh nice jewelry" and enter the store, but you can't enter.
Then they look back at you standing outside and ask "aww, can't afford it huh? bad luck for you"
I as a community leader will not ever in the world do that to my players, it's the dickest dickmove you can do.
So only nice way is, for your friends to just do without the jewelry store while you are there. Which is the main problem IMO.
Which.. Is bad for the jewelry store if even people who COULD walk in, chose not to.
@delicate pumice Congratulations, you save $20, now surely it's time to move on with your life rather than spending it here complaining about something you don't have to buy because you don't need it.
That's not the main problem tho. Even IF you buy it, you still can't play with your community. Essentially wasting money.
Tanoa terrain had the same issue, which is also why I don't own Apex on my main account. But the people who own it will be sad because they paid money for a thing they can't use.
@opaque gate A problem, that is not present with something like APEX Well the Tanoa part of Apex has the same problem. Can't play tanoa if not everyone has it. But atleast the rest of the DLC is available to be looked at in a glass case.
People are not saying they want free DLCs. They are just sad that the way this paid DLC was implemented is (unlike the past DLC's) making it useless for them even if they would paid for it.
You are answering people who are sad for not being able to use it with: "Then just don't use it. Easy as that"
That's just nonsense, not using it anyway is the reason people complain.
You see noone complaining about the price here. Personally, I'd swap the prices of Apex/Global Mobilization. Apex is less content, for more money.
Also updating the FAQ in the pinned messages with some things that came up
untold oracle
Well said, all of it!
granite plank
GM is way worth my money compared to apex lol
GM falls totally within my interests. Apex doesn't apart from the map
wide steppe
Depending on where you live, its worth so little you can buy multiple copies easy lol
granite plank
which, Apex or GM?
wide steppe
GM
granite plank
because I literally can't afford it right now
I'll buy it for my own enjoyment... eventually
wide steppe
Yeah, here those 20€ is a single meal, so not much - while for my best friend 20€ is half his salary, literally
ashen belfry
I still say people are overthinking it way too much.
Its 4 London pints...
maybe 3 3/4
wide steppe
It's just a shame you can't have people not owning it be on the same server with people who do when there are assets from it places down, but ofcourse understandable.
And didn't apex sales go great? Even with being "free"
granite plank
I mean fact is that I won't be able to afford it for six months at least. that's my problem
it's a personal issue
narrow cradle
Can still keep the download optional.
That would actually be quite interesting really. Let the download be optional, but use the existing content licensing system. That way we can say "must have this DLC downloaded to play here", which is still a lower barrier of entry than actual ownership. Plus lets us pick and choose which Creator DLC we think is good for our community, without BI making the base game install really huge.
ashen belfry
But even that isnt a good enough excuse. Our unit runs vanilla and DLC servers. Most of the missions played come in vanilla and DLC flavours. In the end those that dont have a DLC dont miss out on anything.
granite plank
if I, as the leader of the group, can't afford it, I can't in good conscience make it a mandatory payment to play with my group
narrow cradle
unfortunately FM running two servers might not work for communities that have 10-20 people show up for regular vanilla sessions
granite plank
lucky you with two different servers. my group meets once every two weeks and we run on a mate's spare laptop ._.
ashen belfry
if I, as the leader of the group, can't afford it, I can't in good conscience make it a mandatory payment to play with my group So dont. This is such a cut and dried issue.
wide steppe
^ sadly, true.
prisma mountain
My hope is that they allow dedicated servers to just have the content, but allow us to toggle it like any other mod.
granite plank
we'll see what happens
prisma mountain
Our community for example, has like 3-4 mod sets we just swap around depending on our mood.
untold oracle
@ashen belfry but it's an issue nonetheless...
ashen belfry
Not really
narrow cradle
I guess the frustration is that GM is content that a lot of us have wanted for 6 years, and the price is reasonable for the content, just that the way the DLC licensing system has been implmented makes it difficult to adopt as smoothly as other DLCs, including Apex. Which is unfortunate.
prisma mountain
To be fair, the way BI treated DLC is god tier vs other games.
narrow cradle
yup
untold oracle
And they should keep at that
granite plank
I'll still be using the DLC in singleplayer. just unlikely I'll ever play it with my group, which is a shame
ashen belfry
What toys you have in your own toybox means nothing to me. If you only want people to play with the same toys as yourself, you'll find a way to implement it.
untold oracle
They don't have to turn into every other company
It's not true... Why was that comment just deleted above this?
wide steppe
Is it really? Most games dont prevent people from playing with other people that use a DLC other than maps, which BI doesnt too. Only thing BI did which was new and gold tier was let people who dont have the DLC use the things w watermarks
ashen belfry
Again, on our server, we use "Vanilla" and "Modded". Problem solved. (I've not removed anything)
granite plank
cool. other groups can't do that
untold oracle
And you are a tiny minority @ashen belfry, no need to defend BI like that, they don't pay you :P
granite plank
and groups that can't do that, it's their problem as well I guess
I can't make you care
ashen belfry
I always get the blame :😉
Not defending them, its just such a dead simple solution
plush geyser
i wouldn't exactly call a community that has the "expected" audience of players to be a minority
granite plank
it's just a little insulting to be brushed off so nonchalantly though
prisma mountain
I think what FM is getting at, is if you don't have the money for the DLC why worry?
untold oracle
It's a non-solution, it's a workaround that's not feasible for many
@prisma mountain because some in community want to play with what the paid for, which they can't in such case
prisma mountain
You can always play.
granite plank
I'd like to play this DLC with my group but due to circumstances it seems very unlikely
untold oracle
No they can't play together, that's the entire point
prisma mountain
I can see it being a more valid argument if you felt it would split your community. But it's like saying "I don't own Sea of Theives and can't play with my friends that own it".
wide steppe
"Why worry"
Community of 50 people. If everybody but 1 buys it, they cant play together with him. Now imagine if that one is the community leader. It just discourages people from buying the DLC, imo this is bad way to sell it, while apex MINUS being able to use stuff from it was the good way.
granite plank
but I will own the DLC
untold oracle
I am very sure sales would be better with the way BI DLCs are handled too
ashen belfry
Another one of my Sh*t analogies. Some of my mates are of the Gin and Cocaine variety. We all hang out and have great banter, but when they want to spend £15 on gin and another £30 on coke, I stay in my little hard rock pub and let them be on their merry way. I don't need to be apart of that scene. The same can be said with a mod. If you dont want it, dont buy it. But in the same vein, my mates know not to do the whole gin and cocaine thing in my presence. the same can happen in a community.
prisma mountain
I mean I'm perfectly fine adding 22gigs to my A3. But I doubt people want that 😛
untold oracle
But you can look at them and voluntarily walk away, in this case you can't even look
ashen belfry
My 10TB says I have space
granite plank
honestly the 22gb is more of a horse jump than the price lmao
untold oracle
@prisma mountain same, but yes
granite plank
even if no one had to pay for it we'd still have trouble getting people to get it because it's fuckin 22gb lol
wide steppe
22GB is nothing in the big picture of mods, say every community has rhs+cup already, or ifa3, or vietnam. Its just another "setting"
prisma mountain
I mean if you want a good example. Chances our it will be me, and 4 out of our 500 members playing the DLC for fun.
ashen belfry
But you can look at them and voluntarily walk away, in this case you can't even look I don't look, the onus is on them. They don't exclude me, they know better to do that in their own time. So, if the majority of your crew dont have the mod or cant / wont pay for the mod, then you dont construct missions which require it.
granite plank
that's something to discuss within my group yeah :v
prisma mountain
But I have zero fear that we will be isolating anybody. Will play it, then will be off playing some other mod the next day with more peeps.
granite plank
"hey I know you already devote 80gb of your hard drive to arma. can you add another 22 on top of that?"
lol
it's probably closer to 100gb actually
wide steppe
I wish
granite plank
oh no that's just for the mods I make my group use. for my own personal enjoyment it's like 300gb at this point 💦
wide steppe
My arma folder is currenty 440GB, thats without the armaholic/offline mods
muted narwhal
new day, same circle jerk i see
prisma mountain
Really the seller for me will be the map
untold oracle
Is what it is, many don't like it, we gave solutions, up to BI now
granite plank
just sit tight
prisma mountain
Going to wait tell we get a few people making videos of it first. Before I go out to buy.
wide steppe
11
muted narwhal
does anyone here actually think anything will change?
wide steppe
No! I will die now!
untold oracle
Yes @muted narwhal, it makes sense for all parties involved...
wide steppe
I think some people honestly do
untold oracle
I can hope
ashen belfry
Find an equivalent somewhere, as in , do you take the bus, smoke, drink, eat, etc. How many of each to buy it. Its puts it into context.
wide steppe
It might change for next release depending on how sales go, but this release is set in stone
granite plank
coin flip for me. it might, might not
muted narwhal
@untold oracle if you do think that will change (the hdd space it bull excuse, i give you that)
untold oracle
I don't care, BI had an amazing DLC strategy, it's out the door with this one and thrown away
muted narwhal
then send BI an e-mail directly
untold oracle
I intend to post on BIF when back at PC
prisma mountain
If anything you have Old Man DLC to look forward to as shared content. XD
untold oracle
And mails are already there, trust me :P
granite plank
if anything does change it'll be with whatever the next one they release is
wide steppe
Exactly
granite plank
if
red saddle
the hdd space it bull excuse, i give you that 0 problem with keeping it optional download. So if they want the hdd space excuse, they can keep it. No problem with that at all
granite plank
and maybe it might go on sale early
muted narwhal
i find the entire thing is grossly exaggerated to be honest
granite plank
depends on how it sells really
untold oracle
Hdd space is not my worry, there are multiple solutions, one of them is keep download optional
muted narwhal
@red saddle precisely, it can be optional in / optional out
wraith sleet
They don't even have the answers for this one yet so the details do still seem to be in flux. My questions aren't difficult to answer if you know how it technically works and if anyone ought to know that it is the company publishing it!
wide steppe
I mean, 1 month after release its steam official sale, so there is hope for that
granite plank
depends on how it sells
really, not even on how it sells. it depends on whether it meets targets or not
prisma mountain
Pretty sure it's just profit sharing at this point, unless BI gave the devs grant money.
muted narwhal
on the price thing, considering it is a 30 / 35 / 35 split, i honestly think that less than 7EU for this amount of content from a developer is a steal
untold oracle
It is
muted narwhal
@prisma mountain there is no such thing. You invest time and energy, it is 100% profit sharing between paries (valve, BI, developer)
wide steppe
Inb4 its actually 30 to steam, 50 to bi and 20 to GM - jk
prisma mountain
Mainly refering to the idea of "Target sales" which would indicated a loan/cost to be made back.
granite plank
eh doesn't have to be
"we expect it to sell this many copies (for lack of a better term)"
"oh it didn't sell as many as we thought, we'll put it in the easter/april steam sale"
ashen belfry
For me £16.99 = 1 Weekly bus ticket OR 1 bottle of Vodka or Rum OR 1.5 pack of cigarettes OR 8.5 bags of Doritos......
untold oracle
Price is not the issue, people who don't want the content still won't buy it, and that saturates people
Even if it's 5$
wide steppe
For 20€ for most of my friends - electicity bill, water bill, buss for the month and food for 2 weeks - combined
ashen belfry
If they dont want the content then its a non-issue anyway
wide steppe
"Cheap" is a relative term
granite plank
if people are only marginally interested in the content the price is just something that tips the scales away from it
untold oracle
But others who want to play with them do want the content! And that's splitting, which part of that is hard to understand?
prisma mountain
5 out of my 500 members buy the content, play it, then we go play something else with our other 495 members.
Zero split.
untold oracle
That's literally the definition of split 🤔
ashen belfry
If its that important for the other players in your group to have it, pool your resources.
prisma mountain
Do you hang out with all your friends at once every time you do something?
wide steppe
Also true, which I will atleast
The issue sabe is not all communies are 500, most are 20-30
untold oracle
Besides the point, there is no reason BI can't do previous DLC handling
ashen belfry
I think our group has around 100 members, but at most its only been around 15 at any one time.
untold oracle
This is my gripe, so loud about it for years
granite plank
there's probably a reason why they can't
wide steppe
Ehh all we know is they are testing a new DLC method or something
ashen belfry
BI DLC =/= Creator DLC
wide steppe
What goes on @ BI , we can only speculate
ashen belfry
So BI DLC policy =/= Creator DLC policy
untold oracle
Again, you keep saying that, you don't work for BI, they sell and publish it
That's their mistake
prisma mountain
But what he says is true?
untold oracle
And I am calling it on them
wide steppe
BI is the publisher so the "=/=" doesnt work
narrow cradle
The price itself is less of an issue. Sure we can get the 20 or so regulars to dish out 20 bucks for it. But then having new players, or players returning after a while sit out missions / face other issues because of the DLC is a no-go for an open vanilla community like ours. Which means we will have to treat it like a mod, i.e. can't use it. Best case will be that we restrict all GM missions to the GM map, and players without the DLC can still play other missions without disruption.
untold oracle
Yes it is true, but it shouldn't be is my point
ashen belfry
Because Steam no longer does paid mods, so this is the only avenue available for approved community mod projects.
muted narwhal
@untold oracle you keep saying it should behave the same because it is published by Bi
untold oracle
Yes
ashen belfry
BI is only publishing because there is literally no other way to do so.
granite plank
if there was no reason why they couldn't run with the other DLC policy there would be no reason why they wouldn't run with the old DLC policy. which means that there's obviously a reason why they can't
untold oracle
I want to hear that reason
granite plank
yes it would be nice if they did. but don't expect them to work magic if it's literally impossible
prisma mountain
Because not everybody wants 22gigs of 1980s equipment?
wide steppe
We arent saying they should publish it, instead they should publish it like before. The money wont go away, apex sale did fantasticly, I believe
untold oracle
It would still be optional, start reading what I am writing please
granite plank
I don't think it's possible to do it the old way while still making it optional content
tribal folio
It might be optional, but it would be inconveniently optional
prisma mountain
It wouldn't be optional, as in order to play with some one that has the DLC you need the assets. Otherwise it would be a bunch of invisible assets.
tribal folio
and from thereon for some, mandatory
untold oracle
It would solve half the issue, I agree
prisma mountain
People would be forced to download 22gigs regardless.
wide steppe
The "22GB" is so much BS in current year tbqh, I sont think anybody here has floppy disk computors
untold oracle
That too
Download vs pay for something I won't use and downooad but my friend will is a very different story
wide steppe
And more space is one of if not the cheapest part of a PC
mild solstice
But a lot do run arma on smaller SSDs
granite plank
you can't ask for sympathy towards why you can't play it with your group and then not have any sympathy for people who don't have 22gb free on their hard drives
also 22gb is a 18 hour download for me
wide steppe
^
ashen belfry
I want to hear that reason
I have stated the reason:
Because Steam no longer does paid mods, this is the only avenue available for approved community mod projects.
BI is only publishing it because there is literally no other way to do so.
@untold oracle you keep saying that because BI is the publisher, there is no technical or legal reason to get that DLC in the same way
you are absolutely sure of that?
untold oracle
Again, you are not BI, @muted narwhal I haven't heard otherwise so far
muted narwhal
because you keep saying that as if it is a fact
granite plank
not forcing people to download 22gb is absolutely valid
rare epoch
What we/I are asking for is the ability to download and run the game with the DLC content (without owning it) but still have the old watermark, can't use terrain, etc DLC model as it allows for mod devs to utilize the map assets without running into the issue of (mod X requires ownership of community DLC A and B)
granite plank
and that might not be possible, jonbons
muted narwhal
@untold oracle i am not BI sure, i have had a pitch related discussion with BI, which i am pretty sure you haven't
untold oracle
That was aimed at FM
wide steppe
Even without the watermark would be perfect. Simple dont allow people w/o thee contect to use it, but still be able to shoot it or get shot at
prisma mountain
I literally put the idea of owning/not owning this DLC on par with using or not using a mod like CUP or RHS.
rare epoch
@granite plank maybe not through steam but certainly through other methods (like a workshop release with just the assets)
muted narwhal
@prisma mountain that is precisely what it is
ashen belfry
That was aimed at FM I sit in a private channel with devs all day discussing this.
take what you want from that
I cant quote them because thats Verboten
cant upload screens of the conversations either, but I can synthesise and disseminate
granite plank
without the watermark is rather entitled, that's the compromise you make for being able to use those assets in a mission without paying for them. and splitting the mod content through various distribution platforms is convoluted
prisma mountain
But this a 100% optional DLC
granite plank
and it should be
prisma mountain
No one is requiring you to buy it, no one. If your group can't afford it, and your concern is not playing. Then why buy it at all?
granite plank
well GM deserves the money for one
red saddle
Then why buy it at all? That's the problem that people complain about. It makes no sense to buy it. Which is sad.
wide steppe
We've said it over and over, and you keep ignoring it and asking again and again sabre.
red saddle
Sad for the people who already bought it and can't use it. Sad for the makers who don't get the money because people don't buy it
wide steppe
+^^^
prisma mountain
Then but it to support the devs.
red saddle
Make a optional low quality/restricted version of the DLC. Just like all past DLC's. Such that non owners can play together with owners.
Even if the non-owners have a drastically worse experience.
But that way, you don't have a reason not to play it. Meaning communities would use it.
And the players who do have the money, can then buy it to have the better experience
And the players who don't have the money. Are not excluded from the fun or the community
granite plank
I will though lmao
wraith sleet
It is a model that will reduce sales and mean it doesn't get played as much. It takes me from an instant buy to a considering whether its worth it and that is going to happen a lot.
granite plank
I will absolutely buy it anyway
rare epoch
My frustration is mostly with mods that are going to utilize the DLC's assets in their mod because as a result of the assets not being available for non-owners you have mod content that is useless for communities that can't go all in on the DLC.
granite plank
when I can afford it
prisma mountain
@rare epoch That I can see as a 100% legit concern
rare epoch
@prisma mountain and that one point is the sole reason I have any complaints at all about this new DLC model
red saddle
That is the only real concern I see being brought up here @prisma mountain
Seems like everyone doesn't understand what people actually complain about
granite plank
does anyone remember how that A2 WW2 mod was handled? the one that ended up going standalone?
rare epoch
If that is resolved then I'll purchase the DLC and support BI and the mod devs but with this new model I'm most likely not going to purchase the DLC.
granite plank
if I recall correctly, they had a free "lite" version, and they had the paid standalone
red saddle
@granite plank probably in the likes of all the other A2 DLCs. You have the content, but in DRASTICALLY lower quality.
Which is perfectly fine.
I would personally also combine it with the watermark system that BI used in the past
wide steppe
I am not complaining as I know why BI is doing it, and will be buying both for myself and my community.
My issue is that this is just not smart on their part, unless there are other stupid legal reasons this will hurt their sales.
Ofc the issue with mods using dlc assets is also true, like unsung had apex, which mods will habe gm as a req?
granite plank
oh true, they did the same thing with BAF and ACR as well didn't they? it's been a long time
red saddle
yeah
ashen belfry
As can I, (support other mods requiring the DLC) but I support it notheless. For once we have an opportunity for mod makers to acutally get paid for their work (instead of server owners making money hand over fist on the backs of developers).
wraith sleet
Given that its vanilla balanced as well I do wonder whether ACE will look at a balance mod to bring it inline with their usual. There is an interesting interplay here between the free mods and the paid ones
untold oracle
@ashen belfry I see, I take that back then, apologies, still getting official word from BI wouldn't hurt
red saddle
That was noone is being excluded from anything.
Just need to make sure that the graphics are SO bad that people will have a real incentive to buy.
I don't see any issues with going by that idea.
ashen belfry
I'm sure once the statement has been through legal dept 4 or 5 times, we'll finally get a statement (but dont expect it quickly)
prisma mountain
I also would be interested in how much BI QA's the mod. Is it safe to assume all the paid mods will be in line with vanilla statistics and simulation?
red saddle
yes ^
wraith sleet
Honestly people should wait for reviews on this one as it is an unknown quantity.
untold oracle
Modders getting paid, great, let's release CBA then, most mods require it, why don't they get paid? I think the entire system is flawed, but that's beside the point, so I won't continue on that :P
granite plank
IMO, having a free, low texture/low-poly "lite" version and the paid full resolution version would be optimal, but I'd understand if that placed extra burden on the GM team and as such they don't go for it
ashen belfry
Thats covered in the FAQ iirc (QC)
mild solstice
If they do that thing with low res textures, say goodbye to all the texture source files and things GM team promised
wide steppe
If the mod isnt on par vanilla standars, it would make no sence indeed
mild solstice
Because then you have the high res textures for free too
ashen belfry
Modders getting paid, great, let's release CBA then, most mods require it, why don't they get paid? I think the entire system is flawed, but that's beside the point, so I won't continue on that :P theres a statement regarding previously free content wont be charged for
tribal folio
Happily, it's quite clearly at least on par with vanilla standards.
wraith sleet
Well it could be balanced as its own thing, it is a total conversion after all there is little requirement for it to match the vanilla game.
untold oracle
I know, but that's a separate thing I don't want to discuss anyways @ashen belfry
ashen belfry
fair enough
untold oracle
Or rather it's unrelated to this discussion
prisma mountain
@wraith sleet True, but I would hate to see RHS states(no offense RHS!).
granite plank
@mild solstice thanks for reminding me, that's definitely a point against it
wide steppe
Also modderns who want to get paid can join the company, otherwise its only a hobby. Isnt that what makes a hobby and work different? Work pays?
rare epoch
I'm just frustrated that mod/terrain devs have to make the choice between using the great assets these community DLCs can provide and limiting their user install-base to DLC owners.
granite plank
I'll be off now
prisma mountain
Honestly I hated the idea that so many terrains relied on CUP assets at the beginning. Guess this would be no diffren't.
ashen belfry
goes to play Ylands (new update out)
untold oracle
yes T00T 😃
rare epoch
but at least CUP is accessible to everyone, no limitations at all.
untold oracle
but there is definitely something about seeing your fellow modders get something out of it, it will surely demoralize some people
but that's what comes with things like that, not much you can do
prisma mountain
Eh, the idea of paid modders is always been murky. When does the hobby become a profession kinda thing.
untold oracle
exactly
hollow pewter
when the quality becomes professional
prisma mountain
I mean when it comes to this stuff, we are dealing with in all intents contracted studios.
hollow pewter
at that point its their choice
untold oracle
@hollow pewter technically same as Jets DLC and Bravo Zero One
rare epoch
If CUP required that you own/install A2 content I doubt many communities would be using it.
untold oracle
woops didn't mean to tag you
red saddle
@granite plank but I'd understand if that placed extra burden on the GM team and as such they don't go for it It's easy to automate. Not a big problem at all.
@mild solstice If they do that thing with low res textures, say goodbye to all the texture source files and things GM team promised They promised templates, didn't hear anything about source files. and also don't see a reason to release real source files.
https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/222942-arma-3-creator-dlc-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=3351375
I posted my solution here. I think that's the optimal way to do it. It solves all the main problems that are being brought up here.
untold oracle
lovely @red saddle
knotty ore
Terrain makers quite often make terrain for the sake of terrains. User base is just a bonus but not always the goal.
narrow cradle
but GM offers all of these specific vehicles for that setting done to a single consistent art style balanced around vanilla arma 3 simulation values (Armor protection f.ex)
https://discordapp.com/channels/105462288051380224/568041153241284609/568356219056685057
well that puts a nail in the coffin of the "but GM won't be balanced vs vanilla A3" argument
untold oracle
saves me from posting this solution haha
hollow pewter
@red saddle templates would essentially be the texture source files.... unless they would be considering solid color versions of the textures to be 'templates'
red saddle
Well they can also release low quality variants of these then
hollow pewter
most likely they would release a commented layered PSD
prisma mountain
Wouldn't the idea of cutting some content mean they would basically need to make a "Lite" version?
red saddle
Yah
That's very easy to automate though. Just need to run some scripts when the pbo's are being built.
hollow pewter
So how do they distribute the PSDs then lol
granite plank
well we'll see how things develop over the next couple weeks
hollow pewter
People would just upload the PSD for everyone
prisma mountain
But wouldn't that F with class names and configs?
red saddle
No. No reason to change classnames
rare epoch
@knotty ore sure but terrains have some of the highest gameplay value to me personally its a shame that as a result of the DLC assets being locked down we are in this possible situation.
wraith sleet
Agree fully dedmen it ensures this gets the most plays and sales and fits within the BIs existing strategy while requiring little input, it is perfectly doable in the time remaining.
red saddle
No
Include only low quality models/textures in the pbo's. Just like in A2.
No need to change anything in configs
prisma mountain
You would need to for voices?
untold oracle
empty sound files
red saddle
Can just use inheritance to redirect the voices to the vanilla english ones.
untold oracle
I am kidding, that wouldn't work lol
prisma mountain
But that would mean new class names.
red saddle
Or that. OR just edit the sound file paths in the config to the normal english ones
no it wouldn't
untold oracle
edit sound file paths 👌
red saddle
class myVoices : baseclass
vs
class myVoices: otherbaseclass
myVoices stays myVoices
granite plank
anyway I hope it works out and none of this makes it back to GM. they make great things
prisma mountain
If person put a script in to spawn "German_Soldier_A" that is configured with voices and such, how would that work with a none-DLC person using the lite one?
red saddle
I think other sound file paths is easier to do
If person put a script in to spawn "German_Soldier_A" that is configured with voices and such, how would that work with a none-DLC person using the lite one?
0 change to the script. But person would talk english with vanilla voice instead
Voices don't HAVE TO be stripped out if they think it's too much work to do. Just was a idea.
Could also do lower quality voices maybe
delicate pumice
@red saddle Essentially wasting money. If it's of no use to you, don't buy it, no problem. Not every release has to serve every section of users.
red saddle
Didn't I say several times that "don't buy it" isn't the solution and why?
untold oracle
do people read?
wraith sleet
No they apparently don't.
rare epoch
nyet
muted narwhal
@rare epoch My frustration is mostly with mods that are going to utilize the DLC's assets in their mod because as a result of the assets not being available for non-owners you have mod content that is useless for communities that can't go all in on the DLC.
i don't see that as a problem, but rather as a forced incentive
@wide steppe - does anyone think that neither the developer nor BI thought of that? is just not smart on their part, unless there are other stupid legal reasons this will hurt their sales. i would say it is a mix of legal and pipeline
prisma mountain
So I guess I have one more question on it all before I call it a night.
prisma mountain
Are the 3rd party devs obligated by contract to maintain and repair their DLC for so many years?
mild solstice
why? because you couldn't do it
red saddle
How many retex mods did I see in general of A2 content? None.
Except A3 CUP Content
wraith sleet
We don't know yet, homesick couldn't answer that.
I asked that yesterday and BI has me on hold
knotty ore
Contractual details like that are likely not public
red saddle
I don't see anything that stops you from making retextures though?
If they also go with the low quality models.. You'll now have good textures on still bad models.
Still keeps incentive to buy the DLC
muted narwhal
@prisma mountain yes, but considering A3 is at the end of its life
there is less headaches with fixing stuff on their side after game updates
mild solstice
Remains that either they have the capability to retexture their assets (which is important for their own stuff) or they remove it so they can release the CDLC with low-res textures
untold oracle
it's really not, we are getting DLCs published by BI, "end of life" is a weird sentence in this case
just no platform new stuff
muted narwhal
it's all content related
red saddle
I don't see how ability to retexture == impossible to release low-res textures
wraith sleet
I asked 4 questions yesterday, the only one answered was that the dedicated server would come in a separate branch (which for us will waste drive space if we choose to deploy this at all as we will need an addition arma 3 dedicated server installed). The remaining ones are so fair unanswered
mild solstice
because you can release the high res textures for free as a mod
muted narwhal
end of life in terms of official development / engine / platform update
prisma mountain
@wraith sleet Aw man, we need a separate server?
red saddle
That would be illegal tho
mild solstice
yeah, because that would stop people
red saddle
Don't argue with "but people could rip it and release it for free"
They can already do that. Also with the current model. So not really a valid argument.
wraith sleet
That includes what happens if the server is running this but the content isn't being played, do non owners get to still connect and play or not, whether it is maintained after its release and ensured to work despite game updates and whether its terms and conditions of use are any different.
mild solstice
ripping models is 1000% more complex than writing a hiddenselections line in a config
prisma mountain
Dang that really kills me that I would need a entire new A3 server just for the DLC :\
wraith sleet
So we don't know the full extent of the model yet because BI doesn't know/isn't saying.
red saddle
Also there is still the low-res models part.
And the terrain would also be low-res textures.. Someone is not just gonna release a terrain retexture
And again. Still be illegal sharing game files that otherwise need to be paid for.
wraith sleet
These aren't new issues, they got slammed out into the public eye with the Bethesda paid mods debacle so BI ought to have worked out the details before this got to this point so I am surprised a little they weren't addressing it up front.
delicate pumice
@red saddle Didn't I say several times that "don't buy it" isn't the solution and why? I dunno, was just responding to the message that tagged me, not going to read the whole topic first. Whatever your logic I reject that Don't Buy (something that you don't believe you'll get adequate use out of) isn't an entirely appropriate solution.
rare epoch
With APEX I bought the DLC to support BI because its assets were able to be utilized by the modding community (without requiring ownership of the DLC) even though I myself might not ever play on the map or use any of the gameplay assets, I'll most likely not buy this DLC as that seems to not be the case with this new model.
wraith sleet
More surprised they couldn't answer immediately and now I am thinking they genuinely didn't even consider the issues and this entire explosion is the result.
muted narwhal
@mild solstice ripping models is 1000% more complex than writing a hiddenselections line in a config not by much
mild solstice
@muted narwhal of course it iss when the normals are jacked and you have to redo the selections and weights. Half of the morons don't know how to do that
wide steppe
isn't it just ctrl+C ctrl+V, right?
muted narwhal
there's a number of side effects, not just game named selection
@prisma mountain why would you need a separate server?
red saddle
@mild solstice your argument of people just releasing a high quality texture mod. Is the same as "people are just gonna crack it" "people are just gonna torrent a illegal version somewhere"
Yeah so what? Not really a argument against my idea.
muted narwhal
@wraith sleet i am pretty sure they thought of that. maybe they didn't expect so many questions on the same subject, and the negativity of it
delicate pumice
I would have no objection to the existence of a low-res version, be good if it happened but BI have, likely knowing it will costs them some sales, decided not to. I think this is probably because they don't want this exercise to turn into a diversion from their new focus on future products, and probably some Legal/IP differences arising from out-sourcing. Whatever the case, they have their reasons and I don't think we can say (from our outside perspective) that this is the wrong thing for them.
mild solstice
No. my original point was that they wouldn't release texture sources at all
and arguably, they would turn off hiddenselections
red saddle
I don't understand why they would need to release high-res texture sources. If they need to release sources they can also release low-res versions.
muted narwhal
@red saddle dude, i for one, if i were to make a DLC, would never ever want my content to look like a pile or garbage / model and texture related
mild solstice
because they WANT to release texture sources
prisma mountain
If it's on a diffren't branch that won't allow me to toggle the requirements then I would need a separate server. So none-DLC members can still play the server.
mild solstice
didn't you read the release notes?
muted narwhal
more so, there is, afaik, no automated way to force lower lods and lower mipmaps for non-owners
which means it would require 2 branches
1 for owners, 1 for non-owners
which is, from a development POV - 100% absurd
wide steppe
That would make the 22GB DLC into a 44GB DLC, and then I can see the issue of ppl caring about space..
^^^ I am retarded nvm this
knotty ore
it would not double the size
red saddle
All I heard so far is them releasing texture templates. Not source files
Source: GM discord yesterday.
median lintel
I agree with that, wholeheartedly. It needs to be an engine solution, ideally.
wraith sleet
Multiple branches is a bad way to do this, I would prefer that we have a separate download and we can add the reduced data pack server side using -mod
wide steppe
True actually, nvm
muted narwhal
notepad
rare epoch
those templates don't have to actually contain the real textures
wide steppe
hey, MS Paint is the best
wraith sleet
That way we can still choose if we waste space on it server side but we don't additional waste space on having the server installed twice.
red saddle
which means it would require 2 branches 1 for owners, 1 for non-owners
Can be automated when the pbo's are build. No big deal.
prisma mountain
Yea -mod would be optimal 100%. We already use multiple launch cmds for various mod packs, zero need for a separate server.
muted narwhal
using BI tools? how @red saddle
again, we are redoing yesterday discussion
once again
the worst thing for anything related to content, especially if you want to sell that content product
red saddle
Run a batch script which downsizes all textures from 4k to 512x512.
Run a batch script that runs a o2Script over all p3d's to strip the high lods.
Run normal BI tools packing stuff.
Done.
wraith sleet
Honestly I just need to know the details so I can brief my community on it and then have the discussion about what we do before it gets released. I know the answer already really, someone wont be that interested and that will be that and it will be a second server optional thing played by 4 of us for a week.
muted narwhal
is to display that as a pile of garbage
red saddle
Mondkalb already built python tools for his terrain making.
This thing is ez relative to what he already did
muted narwhal
Run a batch script that runs a o2Script over all p3d's to strip the high lods. - and there it goes a separate branch
mild solstice
Go ask him to do it then. Because right now, it seems like he'll say no
red saddle
what?
no. You do that at build time. When the pbo's are built.
You start with the same source material. Just one branch internally
I don't understand why noone understands me..
mild solstice
Since he's opted not to do it
wraith sleet
If it was Dedmen's proposal the same people would play it but with the entire community as part of our main games and potentially cause more sales.
That is my prediction on how this plays out for my and likely many other communities that value their communities over and above this mod.
prisma mountain
Welp, 11 days. I'm sure BI will have more of a response just before release or after release.
wraith sleet
So then I have to consider whether a few second server games is enough to justify the purchase myself at all and honestly I am not sure.
untold oracle
@mild solstice has he though? we don't know who blocked doing that or even optional free download + watermark stuff
red saddle
Maybe they do it like they did with the apex terrain objects content.
Fix it after the fact. not really a problem doing that.
muted narwhal
fair enough, but the issue still remains regarding things looking like a pile of turd, and that means no incentive for the boobies who cannot tell if that is final quality or not
which is a nightmare from a marketing pov
red saddle
we don't know who blocked doing that or even optional free download + watermark stuff
we don't even know whether that idea even ever came up. Do we?
untold oracle
yes definitely a problem as we concluded yesterday, but still better than what we currently know with this DLC
mild solstice
I seem to remember yesterday someone from either BI or GM saying it wasn't how they wanted to do it
wide steppe
Yeah, tbh BI hasnt even really announced this yet, it's all been speculations and discord posts so far. Even the price isn't really out yet
untold oracle
@red saddle correct
delicate pumice
i've heard the same thing (BI don't want to do the A2 low-res thing)
red saddle
I remember dwarden complaining about back in A2 people complaining about low res textures because they didn't understand that they'd need to buy the DLC
muted narwhal
@untold oracle i said this before yesterday - better for who? the user or the selling party
wraith sleet
They do have a lot more tools now to inform people that they are missing DLC and the nags might be a reasoned way to deal with it.
muted narwhal
for user, yes, for the seller, no
red saddle
not hard to solve. Just add text messages telling the user about it. Like the watermark system.
Actually keep the watermark system too
muted narwhal
that didn't work for A2
burnt helm
That’s basically the wartermark thing
untold oracle
user definitely
muted narwhal
why would it work for some 3rd party system
untold oracle
because A3 has a better notification system regarding that
prisma mountain
I guess the real question is, should we be asking BI all these things or the GM dev team? I mean isn't it them that has the most at stake here?
untold oracle
it could give you a message when first of those low-res vehicles spawns it
or when you try to enter it or whatever
muted narwhal
A3 also has no downgraded stuff either
wraith sleet
This way is going to produce a different kind of complaint where buyers complain there are so few places to play it.
untold oracle
yes, which is also fine, I am fine with either of those solutions 😛
red saddle
"that didn't work for A2" A2 didn't have the water marking system
muted narwhal
it did have a notification, call it what you want, there were no pop ups
untold oracle
I'd be happy with just optional free download + watermark stuff already since I don't play public servers and whatnot, but I understand that doesn't solve it for nearly everybody
red saddle
And even if you think that's not enough. Just write literally the text onto the textures "this is a low quality texture because you didn't buy the DLC"
wraith sleet
This is a BI announcement and it is BI's model for creator DLC so it is with them as the publishers.
mild solstice
We'd be in the same position here though. Different DLC rules for different DLC content. Why is this DLC low res but this one isn't?
People will bitch about it either way
muted narwhal
@untold oracle i think everyone agrees that for the existing DLC system would be preferred for various reasons
red saddle
"I guess the real question is, should we be asking BI all these things or the GM dev team?" I'm already asking BI behind the scenes.
I'll discuss that internally too
muted narwhal
= pop ups + watermark etc
wraith sleet
It is a different type of complaint however, one comes from the owners of the DLC, your customers and the other comes from not owners.
untold oracle
@muted narwhal correct 👌
muted narwhal
will that happen, unlikely
untold oracle
that's why we are proposing alternatives
red saddle
"Why is this DLC low res but this one isn't?"
answer:
"because the old variant will just not work here. So we'd either have to block it completely which will hurt the community, so we chose to go the low-res route instead"
untold oracle
that might not work for everyone, but more than what we currently know about
muted narwhal
the alternatives (As in downgraded art related stuff)
is a non-alternative
for anyone who ever took the content he made serious
wide steppe
So basicly the watermark+pop up is not done for legal reasons, and you can't say that directly but you are pointing towards it?
prisma mountain
I get BI is the publisher, but GM is the one that has the most at stake. They put all the hard work, and I'm sure they would want to market their DLC for the best.
wraith sleet
The release model is being almost certainly being dictated by BI and not GM.
muted narwhal
that ^
wraith sleet
They are the ones talking about branches with a reduced data set server side, only BI can do that model
red saddle
Okey I just got told why they didn't go for the low-res route. Sadly I cannot tell that publicly here.
So I won't argue with you anymore who say "it's not a alternative" or "it won't work" as it doesn't make sense to argue with a stone wall anyway
Time will tell. We can hope. And you can argue against it.
mild solstice
So were we right? 😄
red saddle
They are the ones talking about branches with a reduced data set server side, only BI can do that model
Oh yeah. aka @muted narwhal 2 branches stuff.
They are already doing that. Dedicated servers have different data set anyway
narrow cradle
wait so that's confirmed?
wraith sleet
It was confirmed yesterday in the forums to my question about it
wraith sleet
Well only CDLC owners will be able to connect to the branched dedi
muted narwhal
servers have a different data set
wraith sleet
So if you don't have 100% owners in your community you need two installs on differing branches
untold oracle
not a separate branch, but separate download like any mod
well I think, we don't really know I guess?
wraith sleet
We do this was stated yesterday
muted narwhal
you don't need to own C-DLC on your server (can be a different steam profile) to run a server with C-DLC
red saddle
"Separate branch for each creator's DLC?" no
Not that
dedicated servers get different files. That has always been the case @narrow cradle
It just still being the case with CDLC has been confirmed. Nothing changed
mild solstice
SuicideKing's point was though, what happens when the next CDLC arrives? A third and fourth branch?
wraith sleet
When they add an additional CDLC#2 how will that work? One branch for the new one and then a branch containing and requiring both? If they get to three the number of branches is going to explode!
muted narwhal
@red saddle lol, don't get you pampers in a twist over it ``So I won't argue with you anymore who say "it's not a alternative" or "it won't work" as it doesn't make sense to argue with a stone wall anyway` 😄
no one here ever said the current official DLC system
is not the ideal thing
wraith sleet
Rules Pufu you can't just insult people like that, not OK
narrow cradle
So to be clear, you will still just have one dedicated server with all the DLCs, and people with and without the DLC can connect to it? I'm very confused now 😄
wraith sleet
It absolutely was an insult that is not OK
muted narwhal
i'll take my ban if that was the case
also, i am pretty sure dedmen can decide by himself, thank you
untold oracle
and this is why I don't like this Discord, bans left and right, calm down people...
red saddle
@narrow cradle can't be clear. we don't know
untold oracle
@wraith sleet right, I see what you mean now, my bad
wraith sleet
They still haven't answered the second part about whether non DLC content being played will allow non DLC owners to connect.
red saddle
Correct. I don't wear pampers I wear freeguns lul
red saddle
a brand
rare epoch
I know the steam client supports optional DLC but I'm not familiar with how that works for the steamcmd stuff.
red saddle
Btw @wraith sleet don't expect answers soon. Homesick is on vacation till... tuesday I think.
untold oracle
he picked a great week for vacation lol
wraith sleet
So for now the implied model is that CDLC dedi only allows CDLC owners
That is regardless of content being played
narrow cradle
i see
wraith sleet
Ergo if your community doesn't 100% buy this but you want to host it you will need 2 arma 3 dedi installs on differing branches. How that then works with subsequent DLC...well I don't think it does work honestly.
narrow cradle
yeah... what will happen when there are multiple CDLCs? do people need to set up servers for each combination then?
muted narwhal
i am pretty sure it will work just like tanoa does
as in, if you do not have c-dlc content in the mission (be it gear or island)
you can do just fine on the same server
wraith sleet
1 +factorial(x) where x is the number of DLC branches to cover all combinations.
muted narwhal
as soon as you get that content in via mission file, will boot anyone not owning it
wraith sleet
That is an assumption on your part which also somewhat goes against the FAQ they released.
muted narwhal
i read the FAQ
narrow cradle
yeah FAQ is kinda unclear
muted narwhal
why would this work differently than with any other addons out there
red saddle
as soon as you get that content in via mission file, will boot anyone not owning it
Same as back when Apex terrain objects weren't in yet. And you were kicked because mission maker placed a sandbag
muted narwhal
yes ^
vital dome
U werent kicked you just didnt saw any slots right ?
red saddle
That part is pretty clear. If mission uses it, can't join.
What's unclear is what happens if mission doesn't use it. But a player who has it loaded takes a DLC gun in arsenal
What happens to the players who don't have the DLC
muted narwhal
just like currently i can have RHS loaded on a server, play a vanilla mission, everyone can connect
as soon as i switch to a mission using a single bullet from RHS
will kick everyone that doesn't have that content loaded
why would it be different?
hence why i don't get why one would need 2 servers up and running
@red saddle ahh, you mean some virtual arsenal box
that is a good question yes
i would assume game has a fit
red saddle
With mods currently people just run around with invisible guns.. Which I think is the best solution
tribal folio
(well, BI could add a placeholder model)
muted narwhal
BI won't add anything
wide steppe
Waiting for naked west and easy germans shooting each other with finger guns cuz forget to load the DLC )
rare epoch
@tribal folio A giant red error /s
muted narwhal
placeholder would need to be added by C-DLC developer
tribal folio
I mean in general, if a weapon isn't properly loaded /or is absent/ a placeholder model could take it's place
muted narwhal
a railgun would be ideal
rare epoch
As long as its not: http://i.imgur.com/n1QeS.png
molten shard
Invisible silent guns are kinda funny
tribal folio
silent guns are problematic
red saddle
I would love that @rare epoch
But. I also thought about using some pink textures or something for non-owners. But that doesn't work because that would give non-owners a in-game advantage
delicate pine
well, you could make a config mod which is using same class names as GM
and use i.e. assets from other mods
it would take some time to do something like that, any especially could be quite tricky to do if you don't have source data (i.e. non matching bounding boxes, memory points)
but for being just soldier without ability to man vehicles it should be fine
narrow cradle
i think more problematic would be getting shot at by invisible vehicles
although if they're pre-placed then i guess people without the thing would just get kicked..
red saddle
But then there's zeus
wraith sleet
If we end up not getting kicked it solves the two server issue ,but it doesn't solve the value proposition for potential buyers getting to actually play it.
untold oracle
no way it can all be solved, there is a fine line between those 2 sides
I just like what BI was doing so far, and as close as that gets with C-DLC the better
molten shard
the problem with comparing it to apex is that apex is an expansion while GM is a total conversion, players in a server running apex can still play as nato or such as part of vanilla, players wouldn’t be able to have relevant equipment or vehicles when introduced to a GM scenario
The popup system is fine for trying the weapon for a few seconds
But an entire operation?
untold oracle
your imagination is not wild enough, and it's not hard to imagine NATO fighting some of those old vehicles for example
tepid lance
Underdog insurgency with older gear vs. advanced occupation force.
molten shard
Well can’t argue with that
delicate pumice
OK to combine with Vanilla and probably CUP but I'd anticipate issues combining with RHS (different damage/armour systems).
untold oracle
Yes, anything vanilla-compatible you combine with RHS can have issues, simply different standards, that's their choice
it's less and less the case though
and that's offtopic 😄
delicate pumice
i dunno, cDLC and inter-operation with mods is kind've on-topic
wraith sleet
Making rebalance mods for ACE and RHS compatibility are going to be more pain since I take it these are EBOs.
untold oracle
EBOs don't prevent that in any way
delicate pumice
Can you view the config tree of ebo stuff?
wraith sleet
You have to go into the game and then extract the pieces from there instead of straight out of the PBOs, just more hassle but its doable.
untold oracle
correct
delicate pumice
you're doing it wrong, aio config
untold oracle
also correct
red saddle
There is a ingame config viewer ^^
untold oracle
which is the config tree we just talked about
wide steppe
Do mods like ACE/CBA get "early access" to GM to have an update possibly ready quicker, and with either answer - will GM be avaible on the test branch before release?
wide steppe
Figured so, asked just for the record ))
red saddle
Why would they need to update something for GM anyway?
lone smelt
So any comments from them on whether or not you'd be able to pop into a regular server?
red saddle
Bohemia. No.
untold oracle
if anything there would be adv ballistics and other stuff compatibility, nothing required, and anyone can provide it
lone smelt
Sorry just finished playing some Skyrim
untold oracle
ideally @tepid lance and his team would provide a compatibility PBO as free mod, which anyone can contribute to 😃
red saddle
Make it github! :3
untold oracle
yarr!
regal shuttle
Or he worked like evil for years and hope he can sell you his work without you bypassing it day one ? 🤔
untold oracle
?
red saddle
Missing context?
delicate pumice
Well he obviously had to adhere to the vanilla game but must have expected some sectors would like to mix-and-match with optional/advanced systems.
untold oracle
they stated they are very open to modding GM in all kinds of ways
which makes sense since it was meant to be a free mod at first 😛
tepid lance
Yes, GM is meant to be a platform for other factions at least. Originally we had lot more simulation components planned, but for the sake of maintenance and overall fit we refocused on content with smaller features that work well.
As such, all the systems we have (Rank insignia and vehicle marking) are fully modular. Its super easy to add your own symbols and to make use of it for your vehicles if you wish to do so. Also if you need help with integrating it you can ask us directly for help.
random crane
is it just those two custom systems or is there more features?
delicate pumice
Could be a brilliant base for USM/DHI to build around.
tepid lance
There are more features, like switching between turret mounted MG and your primary carried weapon
delicate pumice
Just poked my nose in at Reddit expecting an absolute shitstorm but found it was overwhelmingly positive.