Star wars related things can be directed to Disney
#ip_rights_violations
faint nacelle
tall oxide
i feel like its better if steam takes it down before disneys attorneys waltz in
faint nacelle
steam does not take down anything
Steam enforces DMCAs from the IP owners
BI occasionally doea a sweep to clean up
so if you want to report them use the flagging system or report to the IP owner.
small nacelle
So lets say i made a mod with some vanilla content and some costum markers etc and publish it
But i do want some other mods that other people made into that 'pack' and i asked that modmaker like 'hey is it allright im using your mod in my modpack' and they say yes
Do i just need to get the PBO file and the bisign into my modpack and reupload it and ofcourse give credits on it on the page ? or do i need to do something more/else
faint nacelle
if the mod is available in workshop it would be best to use it as required addon if you need something from it
to minimize downloading and using same stuff twice
modpacks are what break mods the most
@small nacelle
small nacelle
Im not going to get in like very big mods to it but im asking modmakers that havent got a key assigned or small mods since im using signatures on
fossil basalt
I'm with HorribleGoat. It's a very bad idea.
faint nacelle
I think you can sign them for your server and distribute just the keys and keep the mod as external dependency.
regal sedge
It adds unnecessary bloat to your players hard-drives as well because more often than not people will already have the mods you're "packaging" downloaded in whole - not to mention if anything breaks you can't go to the creators for debugging
faint nacelle
Or worst you go to the creator and report many versions old bugs
regal sedge
Correct me if I'm wrong but they can also revoke use privileges at any time which means all the work you put into your mod can be taken down for just about any reason the original creator sees fit - it really is better to just make them required via the WS or make it yourself completely
faint nacelle
true too
rotund kettle
this sounds weird but I find this an interesting channel to read
rapid cypress
^ I usually read through this channel both for entertainment and to learn a bit
echo orchid
glad me and others having to waste time with asswipes provide entertainment for you lads
manic laurel
see it more as "it's good to see butts kicked when it is deserved" @echo orchid - the issue is not funny, the hammer is satisfying
wish we didn't need that channel, for sure.
dull moon
the hammer is satisfying
@manic laurel
That's what she said..
manic laurel
not the best time to brag about my dual-wielding talent I suppose
rustic copper
@hidden scaffold Not sure if you learned anything from the last time, but putting mods in a "modpack" is still not allowed, especially not without permission...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2107393977
rustic copper
Already sent a DMCA since it contains my content
whole sedge
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1967218552
Has content from Ace, FIR, Lambs, STUI, and ZEN without permissions.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1967218552
CUP, HAFM, HLC, and USAF
crystal talon
CUP doesn't DMCA strike ACE compats at this time
covert depot
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2205774668&searchtext=
DayZ assets and I'm sure there is some other stuff but I cannot be asked to reinstall it soz haha
small nacelle
Isn’t ace under the GNU license ?
soft egret
parts of it
small nacelle
oke i want to make some things to be solid and i dont want to 'steal' anything from anyone or do something that is not allowed so probably best place to ask it is here then maybe i misunderstood something since im not that good in English.
i have a mod (with some retextures from vanilla items and some flag with nametags for my unit)
in order to keep the modlist itself small im adding some mods to it with permissions of the modmakers but what if a mod is under that license am i free to put it in there or not maybe im reading it wrong or anything
i know it can give errors and such if you do things like that
dull moon
Repacking already released mods is BS. You then force users to most likely to download mods already in possession and will with a high chance cause severe conflicts with the original mod.
small nacelle
I am fully aware of that also stated in my question some mods i wanted to add in are mods not everbody has i am just trying to get small mods in my mod (under a certain amount of MB) Not any mods like weapons/gear/units etc.
manic laurel
you can add dependencies on Steam, e.g people who will want to d/l your mod will have to download others too
soft egret
Steam Subscriber Agreement forbids reuploading content that you have not contributed to
you need to be contributor and have full permission, then it would be allowed from steam side, meaning for ACE if you contributed to your modified version that you are uploading, and only upload the GPL (that means excluding the APL content because APL is non-commercial) that'd be fine
faint nacelle
why does the modlists size matter even?
crystal talon
Launcher doesn't detect what mods are running on a server correctly once you pass a certain amount, ~20 or so
something to do with a cap on how much data can be queried from servers iirc
rustic copper
Still doesn't allow you to break Licences and EULA's (and laws)...
Because in the end a 200 x 1GB is the same as 1 x 200GB, just legal.
keen trout
@crystal talon server data query limit can be raised on performance/profiling and dev builds
crystal talon
@rustic copper it is less about the actual mod size and more just the amount of them, but yeah.
small nacelle
cheers for the answers lads 👍
soft egret
Launcher doesn't detect what mods are running on a server correctly once you pass a certain amount, ~20 or so
I fixed that
stable zealot
Even if that was the case, you can have one “unit mod” that acts as a mod loader.
manic laurel
@carmine folio if you keep on doing, you will be warned, muted, kicked or banned, or a combination of these. Don't spam - see our #rules.
zealous ledge
actually @faint nacelle, question - I know repacking mods - I - personally havent contributed to into a new mod on the WS isnt allowed. But would moving all the mods i have in a modlist into 1 folder on a server be okay? IE:
currently from what ive seen for A3 servers is serverRoot>mods>(at)mod1, (at)mod2, (at)mod3 etc etc. what im wanting some clarification on having it serverRoot>mods>(at)allModlistModPBOs
so your server startup var is only 1 mod instead of x number of mods
hopefully that makes it a little more clear what im asking
manic laurel
this wouldn't change anything but file organisation I think
rustic copper
it would just prevent you from updating mods automatically...
manic laurel
that as well 😛
zealous ledge
fair point. this was more for servers that dont have auto updating or have issues with loading mods past "x" number imo
rustic copper
not to mention that some mods use the same PBO names, which will than break one way or another
manic laurel
it seems this launcher "20 mods limit" is fixed in the next patch
but yeah, try not to
rustic copper
the problem (afaik) is not the amount of mods, but the amount of keys...
And will be fixed with next update
zealous ledge
i -personally- am not running a local server. i have a dedi 2016 windows server hosting mine. although ive had no issues with our modlist of 41(?) last i checked
gray saffron
No the problem was the limit data size of a single udp packet, now it can send fragmented packages. Back when it was limited, the most limiting factor were the mod names. However You can already use it in performance branch, we are using it for a few month now.
radiant onyx
@latent mesa FYI:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2186390168
reupload of Fapovo, Abramia, Panthera ...
soft egret
didn't you mean to ping IceBreakr?
soft egret
no IceBreakr is IceBreakr
river tusk
another stray ping 😅
manic laurel
@ Ice @ Ice, baby :p
earnest mirage
@radiant onyx hello there, didn't think i See you here
whole sedge
just gonna interject. The mod limit is gonna be fixed in the next patch?
keen trout
if you mean the steam query used by the launcher it is already fixed by installing the performance binary from the profiling branch and increasing the query limit in server config
whole sedge
Well I’ll just wait till it’s on the stable branch so all my members will be able to use it
whole sedge
ok dang thanks
soft egret
just gonna interject. The mod limit is gonna be fixed in the next patch?
you can already get it on perf/prof
rapid cypress
↑ (message edition does not trigger new pings iirc)
@manic laurel Yep editing in a ping highlights the message but doesnt actually ping the person
manic laurel
I know @rapid cypress 😁
rapid cypress
I just wanted to confirm it
heavy nacelle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBQigBtc4Z8&feature=youtu.be Indian mobile-game studio using Modded A3 footage as their "official" launch teaser for upcoming mobile game.
manic laurel
lol! @hollow rain, you may want to transfer that to whomever it may concern…
hollow rain
Already have. 😉
But it’s always best to send these things to the infringements email as well, if you haven’t already.
cobalt creek
They even used the A3-Theme 😂
manic laurel
Downvote in progress
cobalt creek
even reported for Scam
manic laurel
.blogspot.com x)
manic laurel
that as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tetexubfXQI
neon orchid
@runic wraith I think this mod has some of your assets https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1687967275
carmine folio
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2229902871 This is suspicious , no credits to source of the model and I highly doubt he made it himself
patent flicker
I big portion of that dude's previous work is rips of weapons and weapon accessories/components from Tarkov, so it wouldn't be surprising
carmine folio
Right, his AK mods looks suspicious too
patent flicker
Probably for the animations
cobalt creek
download, unpack, check if there are .p3ds in there ¯_(ツ)_/¯
sinful pivot
At the very least in pretty sure he's using SMA's inventory icons for the laser modules
earnest mirage
How is this possible?
Uhh
Well
I'm gonna explain The Image
Since i don't have the actual link
Its swop
Its on the Workshop
mortal dust
earnest mirage
Thats why i've been asking here
fossil basalt
How did they get this up despite DMCAs? smh
Because they've probably not yet been DMCA'd. Also, users have an avenue to report and that is the aptly titled "REPORT" button.
manic laurel
Shown in Steam as a flag 🏳️
manic laurel
even though it can be sad for Star Wars fans, it is an absolute no-go to raise against Disney's decision on their IP.
earnest mirage
I am a Star wars Fan, i am in a Bigger Arma group, and Since they started Ripping assets, 90% either Absolutely hates Swop or never uses it, because it performs VERY poorly ingame, by Draging down FPS
Its mutually hated by Most of the StarWars Community anyways
No one would be sad, If it would Just dissapear from the face of the earth
manic laurel
if they were legally creating this mod from the ground up, I would be a bit sad (but still enforce the ban) as it would only be fan work.
I have no mercy for rippers, especially claiming it's their/profiting from it
earnest mirage
That is 110% understandable
solemn cradle
@echo orchid hi, sorry to bother you, i see you are from the rhs team
where should i go to report a server breaking rhs EULA regarding monetization?
echo orchid
@solemn cradle to me directly
solemn cradle
ok added you as a friend, because i can't message you
earnest mirage
@manic laurel Update, someone appearantly saw this convo, and got me SWOP banned, Not that i really care, but i found it funny how fast that went
manic laurel
They are among us!
Well, SWOP players are Arma players as well
rapid cypress
hits emergency meeting button
carmine folio
SWOP is nearly 100% replaced within the Star Sim community which is a very good thing
fossil basalt
And it still violates Disney's IP, which means its still banned.
pseudo minnow
is that really the worst.... they are disney
heavy nacelle
I'm not interested in SW content at all, but how is it Disneys IP if its not made by disney? Like if its a 100% player created mod, model and everything from scratch. Is it still considered disneys ip? I'm just curious how this works.
pseudo minnow
i've heard they are accepting patreon
manic laurel
IP = Intellectual Property
even if I create a new episode of Dr House all by myself, rent the hospital, invite Hugh Laurie, get theaters to show the movie, the Intellectual Property is not mine - I am using the Dr House character
@heavy nacelle
pseudo minnow
still seemed shady to me, ive heard disney abuses fair use laws to a fair extent
manic laurel
not in that case
lone basin
I'm not interested in SW content at all, but how is it Disneys IP if its not made by disney? Like if its a 100% player created mod, model and everything from scratch. Is it still considered disneys ip? I'm just curious how this works.
@heavy nacelle well someone had to make those original things (design the X-Wing, the Millennium Falcon, Dark Vader's mask, ...), all that is intellectual property.
manic laurel
they have the right to refuse IP usage, and (maybe poorly) they decide to use it
pseudo minnow
do they have the right to refuse fan content? I havent heard that before
heavy nacelle
Yeah thats fair Lou, but wouldn't that be the case for anything that exists irl? If I make anything based off irl, like a gun or something like that. That weapon will more than likely have some sort of patent on it or the design is owned by the company who made it. Not me, so why are stuff like RHS allowed and Star wars not?
Thats what im trying to understand here.
lone basin
Because the owner tolerates it I assume (or it's in the public for, idk)
dull moon
do they have the right to refuse fan content? I havent heard that before
disney declared the whole fanfiction and lore around SW as false and deleted after taking over IP and copyrights to SW.
all at that point known fanfiction authors (novels / comics / ect.) where forbitten to publish from that moment on if they did not get permission by disney (buying licenses, ect)
heavy nacelle
Aha, that answers my question aswell then @dull moon We are allowed to lets say create a certain gun, because the company hasn't told us we can't?
manic laurel
nope
heavy nacelle
Could you explain how it works then Lou?
dull moon
as soon as it is SW related, it'S a nogo to recreate a design
heavy nacelle
My latest message was not about a gun from SW btw
soft egret
You aren't allowed to create anything that is disney's interlectual property. And that is anything in the Star Wars universe or shown in any movies
With other companies. other rules apply. Some specifically allow use of their IP, some don't, some don't say
heavy nacelle
Yeah thats fair Dedmen, but lets say I wanted to create that new US Soccom 338 Machine gun from Sig sauer, what makes me able to do that? I dont own the design of the gun, they do.
pseudo minnow
doesnt that violate fair use
soft egret
Likefor example Halo, Microsoft specifically allowed Halo IP to be used (though non-commercial afaik)
dull moon
doesnt that violate fair use
no
soft egret
@pseudo minnow fair use doesn't apply here
manic laurel
there is a design (Disney, guns) - you cannot use it. Using it is stealing it - claiming you "weren't told to do so" is not working here, it's like saying "my neighbour didn't email me I couldn't steal his car".
but:
weapons have a political range, and also some makers lost their rights
latest example, HMMWV can be depicted in COD without paying a license - one has to depict reality at one point (I guess) but that's a judge that decided that
soft egret
You havent told us we cant, therefore we can.
no. They haven't told you, thus you don't know if you can.
They can still crack down on you after you made it, because they didn't allow it
manic laurel
fair use = using some pictures to describe the creation itself - not "I can use it as long as I make no money"
dull moon
HMMWV
RE:
it is not allowed to use that name (trademark), but to use/create the model and name in the military designation
manic laurel
^ true
heavy nacelle
Alright but you are still using their design tho?
pseudo minnow
is adapting content not transformative?
manic laurel
@heavy nacelle a legal decision has been made then
heavy nacelle
If we take RHS and SMA as an example, have they contacted every single company that have produced a firearm they depict in-game?
soft egret
is adapting content not transformative?
if by that you mean ripping stuff from other games and modifying and importing it into Arma, that's theft, not fair use
have they contacted every single company that have produced a firearm they depict in-game?
RHS did yes
manic laurel
RHS did yes
did contact the companies, not did ripping 😬
dull moon
worth having a read on this because many use the term "fair use" without having the slightest idea what it actually is...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
tulip nexus
The issue with Disney IP is that they own the likenesses of the characters vehicles etc., not just the physical objects used in the movies
They also own the names etc.
pseudo minnow
I just assumed fan works were considered transformative
dull moon
nope...
pseudo minnow
still scummy by disney however
tulip nexus
Disney makes entertainment products, ergo pretty much any entertaining use of a Disney-owned character design or name infringes on their business
manic laurel
there you have it
satisfied? (of the explanations 🙂, not of the situation 🙃)
heavy nacelle
Thank you guys for the clarification 🙂 as I said I don't have any interest in SW related creations. But being a beginner arma 3 modder myself I want to be as informed as I can be on the subject so I dont misstep.
dull moon
Good to see you taking the jedi way.
On the other hand, the dark side as better cookies...
😉 😆
(please Disney, don't DMCA my comment...)
heavy nacelle
Haha
faint nacelle
Simples thing to do to avoid any kind of a probelm is create your own designs and your own IP
except of course then you may need to deal with people who then steal your IP
rustic copper
Why this discussion...
If you don't have explicit permission, you're not allowed to use it.
As for US Military; everything owned by the government has become public domain and is therefor allowed to be used in other content, as long as the military designation is used and not the factory name (eg. M16A2 vs Colt A-15)
Disney actually says on top of that "it is not allowed", even though law already protects them enough.
fossil basalt
👍
echo orchid
also, just to add to this - there is one thing to model/replicate something that exists, can be purchased/ used / photographed
than use something that is 100% made up
heavy nacelle
Yeah thats very true
carmine folio
I mean technically all they need to do is alter the name of what they're making mods for (Example "Space Wars") and modify their models slightly and then it's considered parody and then 100% legal
rustic copper
I wouldn't want to explain that to the lawyers of Disney...
carmine folio
Well you wouldn't have to. As long as it's parody they cannot touch you within any legal court
I mean if the movie space balls wasn't made you could have done what they did but in a game
rustic copper
A parody, also called a spoof, a send-up, a take-off, a lampoon, a play on (something), a caricature or a joke, is a work which is created to imitate and/or make fun of or comment on an original work—its subject, author, style or some other target—by means of satiric or ironic imitation.
Making a "parody" just to bypass copyright laws does not apply here...
Don't get me wrong, I love SW and I love Arma, and I do think it would be great to have those combined. But not in an illegal way...
carmine folio
Legally it does. Distribution of such content would not be associated with a breach of an IP right. US Supreme court identifies it as a parody or "Spoof" of the original idea. But again I despise SWOP as it's a laggy, unoptimized, memory leak of a mod but the enjoyment of star wars within Arma 3 is high. Considering there are tons of users for the content use.
My buddies a copyright lawyer for legal firm so he explained it to me. He's also a gamer so he gets the appeal
rustic copper
in that case, feel free to take the risk... BI doesn't allow it...
carmine folio
But the whole SWOP development taking money for creating content, that's illegal sure. But if they decided one day to modify the name, ID's and all and release it as another mod by all legal argument it's completely covered
rustic copper
and so doesn't Disney (just look up "Disney vs Air Pirates")
chilly silo
Legally it does. Distribution of such content would not be associated with a breach of an IP right. US Supreme court identifies it as a parody or "Spoof" of the original idea.
Erm, at which point does making a mod of protected content become a spoof? Where is the "funny" factor designed to send up or satirise the Disney's IP?
And disregarding that aspect for a moment. By making a mod that uses content "based on", "inspired by" and or "dependant on" Disney's IP for recognition of brand (i.e. association to Star Wars) leads onto some very shaky ground. But lets ignore that too for another minute.
The biggest problem here is that by making a Freeware mod based of of their IP (Their commercial and profitable and recognisable IP) you are infact:
- impacting on their licensed PC games. Potentially impacting sales of not only Disney, but Lucasfilm, EA and others that bought a game dev licence
- Using a game engine they do not license. And therefore get no returns from.
- Potentially releasing 'inferior models and content' that may damage the public's perception of the Quality standard that the public expects from Disney and Lucasfilm IP and brands.
- Potentially damaging their brand and their ability to license and therefore continue to financially benefit from their legal property. ie the Star Wars IP
The problem is "Fair Use" is not a right. Hell there isn't even a clear definition in US, UK or EU law. Its a loose set of guidelines. And the overriding factor in the US is about potential impact on profits. And there is plenty of case law on the net about How fair use is applied and I can promise you it does not spin out the way you think it does,
Have a read of this: https://arma3practicalipguide.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html
US/UK or EU, your claim of Fair Use: Parody @carmine folio would not hold up in any court.
meh cant embed images
In the Disney/Star Wars mods scenario, in fact in most modding scenarios Fair Use does not apply. other conditions and exceptions may apply but Fair Use simply doesn't come into it.
chilly silo
Someone just asked me this directly... So just to clarify a few things.
"Ok so we dont use the Star Wars names we can still make Stormtroopers though right? We just can't call them Stormtroopers anymore."
The answer to this is; No you cant use anything that Disney/Lucasfilm have registered or protected. If its recognisable as something from Star Wars you are on dodgy ground. X-wings, Storm Troopers, Darth Vader blasters etc all have their likeness protected. They even protected the Jawa guns and robes, Ugnaughts likenesses, Gonk droids. You name it.
You can make things for "Private" use. But legally "Private" means individual or your sole use. The moment you share it with anyone its no longer legally private.
Disney do allow (more accurate to say "tolerate") people to make small number of replica props for sale. But the moment they start to make any money or impact on possible sales a lot of these people have received cease and desist orders.
My personal favourite is #6
And more relevant to our use case - https://games.mxdwn.com/news/lucasfilm-issues-cease-and-desist-letter-to-kotor-full-conversion-mod-team/
soft egret
If you want to make a star wars mod that's not called star wars, and doesn't contain ANYTHING that looks like star wars or sounds (stealing sounds is a thing too) like star wars. Then you can legally do that.
But at that point why even think of star wars if its not like star wars in any way.
tulip nexus
In fact one of the biggest reasons the company is so strict about asserting their ownership of likenesses of star wars characters and equipment now, goes back to difficulties they had with determining ownership storm trooper likeness. https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/how-lucasfilm-sued-the-guy-who-made-the-stormtrooper-helmets-and-lost Is literally the only person who can get away with making unofficial stormtrooper stuff because he designed it and was doing it before the film was released so Lucasfilm/Disney products are actually derivatives of his work
faint nacelle
no wonder then they have been redesigning everything
rapid cypress
Hm if its that guys original work and the official star wars stuff is just derivative work couldnt the original owner allow more derivatives under a certain license?
faint nacelle
just for the stormtrooper stuff, maybe. but not with stormtrooper name and in the context of galactic imperial soldiers
rapid cypress
Hm okay
faint nacelle
At least that would be my guess
Stormtooper and everything Star Wars named is still Disney IP
if it was "Generic White Space Armor from Ainsoworths original designs" it might fly
manic laurel
<This comment has been removed after a DMCA request from Disney Inc.\®>
faint nacelle
but that is just the 1 original design
tulip nexus
Yeah, and I am sure the company's lawyers have closed other loopholes surrounding it in a way that gives them full rights to the likeness in any other medium besides costumes
faint nacelle
Yeah would not want to try my luck on that
echo orchid
i honestly don’t get why people are so adamant to create (if they are creating that is) from scratch content like that, when there are limitless options with some creativity and imagination
faint nacelle
From what I understand nostalgia and being a fan of a particular fictional universe for long time plays a part in it
and sharing that with others likeminded
echo orchid
while i understand that, i honestly don't think A3 is the best thing for that, all things considered.
fluid elbow
@echo orchid yes and no. Arma 3 has a lot possibilities to use and also the terrain size is very big which is playable. There arent many games out there with such capabilities like Arma 3.. just the mod/addon creation is a bit a pain to do properly and lagless. But all in one, Arma 3 is a great platform to make mods, in my opinion one of the best game for mods.
scarlet patrol
to the "can't you just change the name?"
didn't disney copyrighted some shapes aswell?
fluid elbow
@scarlet patrol doesnt mind, just change the name will not work as long the visuals are like the originals. The IP belongs not only about names.. it belongs about style, ideas, sounds, names etc.
echo orchid
@fluid elbow considering i have been modding this for the past 13+ years, i understand
i do not agree with the fact that for anything melee related (lighsabers for instance) arma is the engine to work with for instance.
echo orchid
it is possible to some degree, with tons of workarounds, but it isn't really something this engine was really designed for.
again, while i am myself a star wars fan, i wouldn't touch it for A3 with a stick
scarlet patrol
the 0 range pistol for melee is kind of cheap and works half the time
fluid elbow
@echo orchid I get your point. But thats also some kind of stuff i really like in Arma 3.. to improve..
Find ways how to do it.. had to do that 2004 in OFP times too.. like doing walkable Mechs.. Engine is still not for any Mechs, but, thats how modding is 🤷♂️😜
echo orchid
it's not only the mechanics, it is also about the animation system, the usable sources etc
mechs - i know, but yet again, Arma is better for things like rigid anims (mechs as well)
scarlet patrol
kinda weird of Disney to not take advantage of this hidden huge amount of people interested in star wars roleplay
echo orchid
than for anything organic (and wetness, my personal pet peeve)
considering currently star wars franchise is the biggest thing they own
it's obvious that disney is protective about it
in any case, i consider some things doable in A3, without infringing on their IP rights - say putting a lightsaber model as a prop in a back of a truck or cockpit of a plane
scarlet patrol
they also are stuck on the pegi16 mindset so they can't do anything much more mature than that
echo orchid
as long as it isn't usable, and star wars is already part of the urban culture, that is fine
i might invest some time into the legality of that, but again, making a usable saber is in direct conflict with their own licensed games
fluid elbow
Yes true, and you can go now 2 ways for mechs.. since in Arma 3 are rotated/translated selections more than once animateable you can go this way or the OFP way is to mix with a soldier (rtm animations) 😁
About the SW stuff i agree with you
earnest mirage
Well, thinking of that
How did Squad's StarWars Mod get away with using StarWars stuff, thats been wondering me, i mean yea, they didn't pull a SWOP and stole stuff but still
dull moon
How did Squad's StarWars Mod get away with using StarWars stuff
they don't...
they just haven't been caught/reported yet, that's all.
thing is, disney can be a beatch when going after violators, firing law suits like cluster bombs, hitting as much as possible and hoping for an effect. even if a party had nothing to do with the violation directly. this means, if disney decides to fire a cluster bomb at arma 3 mods, chances are good that BI itself and the whole modding community could get caught in the line of fire. we avoid that by banning disney content on all official platforms and loudly distance us from the creators
earnest mirage
Fair enough
primal crown
So if there was to be a star wars mod, would it be okay for the models and such to be originally made instead of ripped?
dull moon
no
primal crown
Thats a bit whack. I guess OPTRE is allowed to be a thing because microsoft has a special provision for it, i guess disney has not made a similar gesture?
tulip nexus
Correct
manic laurel
one might be not agreeing with Disney policy, but they have the right to go this way.
primal crown
Oh yeah absolutely, just disappointing for us who would love to see some sort of arma style star wars game. Anyway, im about to be getting very offtopic, so im gonna go bug CSLA about the DLC
faint nacelle
Before Disney Star Wars fan stuff was even encouraged I think.
Since there was flourishing expanded universe community
Disney cut all that out so that they can control their product
rustic copper
Lucasfilm was also not a big fan of third-party content based on their IP, just look at KOTOR (a fan made remake) which got shut down to protect their IP.
Although Disney is known to bring their legal team to smaller projects as well.
faint nacelle
well KOTOR is also property of the licensed maker
its like double IP problem there
and frankly if you remake something and make it better you are kinda pissing in the cereals of the original maker
rustic copper
I also doubt that Disney will ever spend time/money on some mod makers, unless they actually rip content from their games.
That said; it still doesn't make it legal...
faint nacelle
It is always possiblity and Id wager such have happened too. mods get shut down all the time
its all about having to protect the ownership
fossil basalt
Incorrect, they've taken action against drawings made by kids.
I also doubt that Disney will ever spend time/money on some mod makers, unless they actually rip content from their games.
That said; it still doesn't make it legal...
somber cliff
action against drawings made by kids. 
I know the house of mouse is soulless but dang
fossil basalt
They also threatened to take legal action against daycare centers for kids because they had "Disney" related murals painted on their walls.
somber cliff
faint nacelle
it is in fact a corporation thats sole purpose of existence is to make money 😄
somber cliff
they must've made bank off of Full Metal Jacket then
fossil basalt
I'll need to dig for the article, but it references some key aspects of what is and isn't prohibited (by Disney).
This is not an exhaustive list:
Prohibited
Anything which names a Disney product or is similar enough to be confused (Mibby Mouse for example)
Anything which looks like a Disney product (See Mibby Mouse above)
Anything which doesn't look like a Disney product, but sounds like it could be (Mickey Moose)
Anything which isn't a Disney product, but due to naming or appearance could be confused for a Disney product. (This is the one that you will find that has the most potential for trouble)
But, Dedmen brought up a good point with: https://discordapp.com/channels/105462288051380224/105792634995388416/758256563470991402
manic laurel
Duke Groundrunner is disappointed
somber cliff
Anything which doesn't look like a Disney product, but sounds like it could be
"You made an original children's cartoon? TO THE STOCKADES WITH YOU"
tulip nexus
Disney has made cartoons that were original? I thought they were all just old folktales
rustic copper
Guess someone hasn't heard of Mickey Mouse (and friends) yet...
scarlet patrol
feel like there should be rules against commercializing stuff that goes so deep into culture
of course don't mean mikey mouse is now open source, just don't be an 🦆 👤 if kids love it so much schools put them on walls
midnight crystal
The story of the mickey mouse copyright is pretty interesting actually, if it wasn’t for disney lobbying it would be public domain by now
regal sedge
Disney’s whole schtick is brand management - something like arma isn’t just locked down as hard as it is simply because of potential revenue issues - it’s their IP being used in a way that could potentially damage their own brand (think of the accusations arma faces of being a “training” software for people with bad intentions)
If money was their driving motivation they would be partnering into more games for stuff like they have with The Sims and FortNite
faint nacelle
likely the lincensing and partnerships need to be carefully picked so that they dont cause extra costs when they need to be managed
earnest mirage
That explains Lego, Hasbro, and Who Not
earnest mirage
feel like there should be rules against commercializing stuff that goes so deep into culture
of course don't mean mikey mouse is now open source, just don't be an 🦆 👤 if kids love it so much schools put them on walls
@scarlet patrol
I 100% agree
Like espetially for kid beloved characters Like, Mickey, Goofy, Pluto, Like litterally the FACES of Disney should be abled to be Used by schools, Kindergartens and Well, places where Kids are at
maiden condor
What can we do about private mods that have stolen PBOs but only someone friends could see what would we do? I ask because I found one
fossil basalt
And if you know who the author is (of the contents of the PBO), tell them as well.
maiden condor
These are all the authors affected ACE, ASCZ, AWC, HAFM, JAS, KKA3, CUP, MILGP, NIArms, SMA, SOF, TFA, TOG, USP and VSM
And more but I wasnt able to track all of the pbos back to their workshop pages
dull moon
there's nothing top report when the workshop item is not listed / public
stoic beacon
You can give me the link or workshop ID and proof that kka3 files are in there
@maiden condor
earnest mirage
@maiden condor holy fuk thats a Lot ...
echo orchid
@dull moon actually if you know the id, you cand dmca even if not public
maiden condor
@stoic beacon this is the link—-https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1915179660 but you have to add this guy to see it—-
@earnest mirage yeah it seems they just cherry picked pbos to add to their own mod pack and use that
earnest mirage
MHH
maiden condor
@earnest mirage this was this list that I compiled from the mod with only the ones I could find on the workshop https://pastebin.com/HQWZ1XDw
earnest mirage
OK holy crap
stoic beacon
@stoic beacon this is the link—-https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1915179660 but you have to add this guy to see it—-
@maiden condor I can dmca it without being able to see it
Just send me proof that the kka3 files are in there
Send me a dm with a screenshot of the folder
maiden condor
Ok I’m not at my computer at the moment ill send you one when I get home
maiden condor
@stoic beacon https://pastebin.com/3JD29K19 Images inside #4 is what you are looking for PS they removed me from the mod so I had to go to the steam root folder to find it again
indigo thorn
TaxerM is a known user of ripped content and I believe has already been banned from this discord for this reason. So no surprises here...
hybrid tide
His name says it all
midnight crystal
@dull moon collection apparently containing CUP reuploads https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2239253876
dull moon
👍
carmine folio
https://twitter.com/destprism/status/1307370403673841668
Can anyone confirm this?
dull moon
that's trolling
carmine folio
I'd only believe it because arma modders are weird about copyright
carmine folio
I'd doubt that
I just know modders that make free content for someone elses video game will find any reason to sue
scarlet patrol
arma 4 is ready but for political reasons its shipping the year its plot takes place, 2043
midnight crystal
After all, arma 3 is fiction... right? 
dull moon
is it tho?
rustic copper
We'll know in 2035 🤣
earnest mirage
Judging by now
Contact isn't that far fetched
Ya'll need to redo the series in 2021
Like Really
I've been waiting for Aliens a whole year
echo orchid
@carmine folio sharpest knife in the drawer much?
carmine folio
is the post fake?
echo orchid
just the fact you might be asking that in mind boggling
vivid wave
More like, how can this be true?
vivid wave
Not sure my question goes here but I put this here: Can I remix (more like cut and paste) Arma 3's soundtrack and make the result public as a part of a MOD?
fossil basalt
is the post fake?
@carmine folio
Its quite sad that it has to made explicit, but OF COURSE its fake!
dull moon
Not sure my question goes here but I put this here: Can I remix (more like cut and paste) Arma 3's soundtrack and make the result public as a part of a MOD?
@vivid wave
Best to ask BI legal. Maybe even @hollow rain can answer that
crystal talon
vivid wave
The account also had CBA, TFAR and SMA?
soft egret
uff
echo orchid
@crystal talon tnx
carmine folio
You just gotta be sure, I know it's a wild accusation but it has to be asked@echo orchid
I posted that more so you could see it, this isn't me accusing you guys of something
I don't think a response as hostile as that was necessary
rustic copper
Well, everyone who follows BI and Arma development knows that Arma 4 is far from being released, since development hasn't even started...
And there's no reason for any modding team to file a DMCA towards BI...
If BI would steal something from RHS (or any other major mod) it would become a lawsuit...
So the response of PuFu is fitting to the context... It's BS and everyone knows it...
carmine folio
how do you copyright a free modification for someone elses game?
arma 3 is the only modding community where I see this occuring
rustic copper
most mods contain content made by that team/those developers, so that content belongs to that team/devs
dull moon
oohhhh... there are many other games where this happens
how do you copyright a free modification for someone elses game?
arma 3 is the only modding community where I see this occuring
rustic copper
if I would create a custom spoiler for my car, does that mean the car manufacturer suddenly owns the rights over that spoiler?
carmine folio
so long as you're not making money on it it is an artistic depiction
I get wanting to be credited
or if someones making money on a server with your mod
but outright making a mod unavailable seems kinda crappy to do
dull moon
so long as you're not making money on it it is an artistic depiction
are you talking about your mod, or mods in general?
carmine folio
or if someone wants to have a slightly modified version of your mod for their friends to play around with
in the example of modelling a car spoiler
are you talking about your mod, or mods in general?
rustic copper
if I create something I own it, not the developer of the original game/car/whatever, and no one else can take ownership of it, even when "slightly" modified...
that is how copyright laws protect original content
which is not a discussion, that's a fact
carmine folio
like RHS, it's a stunning mod, the team put an unbelievable amount of work into it and deserve every right to be credited but if someone uploads it to their servers mod list to slightly change it to their liking without making money off it, I don't see the problem
I get the laws
but like
why
rustic copper
because people abuse(d) it
carmine folio
a mod is just for entertainment value, why do people get so salty about it
Everything I create is open source
rustic copper
that's completely fine, but others don't think the same way as you do
carmine folio
mind you I only dipped my toe into arma modding so I have nowhere near the level of work some of these guys put into it
I do alot of ksp modding and nobody causes this kind of trouble over it
rustic copper
and to be fair; Open Source does not mean "free to do whatever I want to do with it" wither
that's because the KSP community doesn't care (like a lot of other communities), but since BI is a serious company and Arma a serious game who support their community (and the content they make) it's easy; we all follow the law
carmine folio
serious?
rustic copper
and if you don't like it you can still play/mod other games
carmine folio
what defines a serious game?
rustic copper
Arma is a game which which is serious about the modding community by providing all the tools needed to do so, even by providing special licenses you can use for your content.
I have never seen any game in my life which offers that
rustic copper
well, KSP also has rules regarding mods... but if the community doesn't enforce them it's their own problem
carmine folio
I think some people just take hobbies like modding video games to seriously
I could understand taking VBS seriously
rustic copper
well, some people make a living because of it...
rustic copper
- create great mod for game
- get hired by game company
- ...
- profit
carmine folio
I mean you can build a portfolio but it's still a free mod
rustic copper
which still means it belongs to you, and you can do with it whatever you want... within the license of the original game
rustic copper
that's another story
carmine folio
whether someone reposts it or not it's still your original work
rustic copper
and still doesn't allow others to take your work and release it anyway
Open Source, FOSS (Free and Open Source) and Free content still doesn't mean you give away ownership, rights, or whatever...
So in all cases; don't release what you don't own, even when modified...
Just take a look at the lawsuit between Oracle and Google (regarding open source Java packages in Android)
carmine folio
I think there's a mentality that comes with taking modding too seriously, like only uploading to armaholic, pushing retextures of BI arma 2 assets and calling them their own, refusing to use steam and modernize. There's a split in the arma community between people that want to have fun playing a video game and enjoying a creative hobby versus people that put their mods on a site only a select few use and generally being hostile to people in the community. I don't think in the year or so that I've been here that I've ever been able to get help with any technical question regarding modding, I understand there are trivial things that can be found on the wiki but when every question is met with read the wiki and not even an attempt at help is offered it really wears on me. I genuinely enjoy arma 3 and the fact that it is open to creative work but the core community that surrounds it is so hostile. Not to keep referring to ksp but when you have a question people will make a reasonable effort to help so long as you aren't spamming or asking questions like "how do i do mod". There are good people here, but there are also people that have such a nasty attitude. I understand someone is legally entitled to do what they want with their mod but if they're gonna get all weird about copyright or only post on armaholic then why bother making it, go work for a company and apply your valuable skills to make money, make serious engineering drawings, idk.
manic narwhal
We always help each here..... People are just not willing to do all the work
carmine folio
I mean I'm not even asking for work
Just simple questions
Instantaneous read the wiki
I read the wiki
I only ask here if I can't find it
manic narwhal
Eg scripting and configs, if you just ask how to do X, then yea people will point you to the wiki, but if you write even a terribly broken attempt people will help fix it
carmine folio
maybe I'm just unlucky but I've entirely had to learn arma modding on my own
dull moon
the mod i'm involved in does not allow reuploads or cherrypicking / including in modpacks for a very simple reason: maintenance
we are the only source for this mod, so if there is an error we can fix it, and push it to release. having a 💩 ton of derivates on the workshop causes conflicts. specially when versions around that are like a yea old or so. before we enforced our rights with DMCAs, we got countless bug reports of issues that where fixed ages ago. we didn't remember a lot of them and wasted countless hours finding those already fixed bugs
rustic copper
maybe I'm just unlucky but I've entirely had to learn arma modding on my own
Same as me and a lot of other guys who are now helping others on this Discord.
I guess the main problem is that people expect too much from help, and "we" got sick of people who just ask "how do I this?" and then expect a fully working solution with 24/7 support
dull moon
i usually just get pissed about questions that could have been googled within 5sec
rustic copper
Personally I always try to help by teaching how to figure it out yourself; which means "check the (correct) wiki pages", show what you have tried and don't expect an answer (no you have, yes you can get if you're lucky)
carmine folio
When it comes to mission editing most things have been discussed on reddit, forums and the wiki
but as far as actual modding there is very little info
rustic copper
And if the answer is not obvious I will even do the hard work for you; like testing scripts, going through documentation, checking scripts, searching Google, etc.
Because I know it's hard to do that and sometimes requires a second pair of eyes to figure it out
carmine folio
I've seen stupid questions like "how do I make a house" and expect a full lecture on the process of building a house, I understand that
I try to ask specific narrow questions that I've spent hours and even days trying to figure out on my own
dull moon
but as far as actual modding there is very little info
kind of true. but the reason for not having a ton of step-by-step tutorials is, modding, even texturing, is so heavily multifaceted.
1000 ways lead to rome...
rustic copper
Problem with modding is that there is not a "one solution fits all", and depends on a lot of different things. So the more information you can give, the better help we can give (if we know it)
eg. I'm still waiting on an answer for a question I asked 2 weeks ago 🤣 simply because nobody knows (and don't care to share their knowledge)
but I have the feeling we're going more and more off-topic here
echo orchid
You just gotta be sure, I know it's a wild accusation but it has to be asked@echo orchid
@carmine folio
You really need to pay attention to who you are following on social media. That Monarch guy is a salty nutter.
Also, just because a mod is released to use within Arma for free
doesn’t mean it has no monetary value
one does not have exclude the other
regarding people who take modding seriously - well, to be honest when you get to see that people don’t give 2 sheets about your property, you sort of either quit, or take a stance
it’s easier to quit, it saves a lot of time
in any case, didn’t mean to be an ass towards you, i thought you were sarcastic/ same gang as that monarch lad who, together with his “friends” i have blocked everywhere for obvious reasons
hasty gale
"ARMA 3 is an open-world, realism-based, military tactical shooter video game" and is most likely under more scrutiny and has to be more strict to enforcement of the law than other games such as garys mod
faint nacelle
@carmine folio mods are free priviledge, not a right. Piss on the makers long enough and then they stop modding and you have no mods to play with.
We have extraordinary amount of actual real self made content in the Arma scene
I dont have any data but I would wager in other games where modding happens you have the same old stuff thats on the internet or ripped from some other game instead of actual original content
tall swallow
I could understand taking VBS seriously
@carmine folio vbs??
vivid wave
Virtual Battlespace, basically Arma but for real armymen (not even an accurate description)
spark bay
kind of true. but the reason for not having a ton of step-by-step tutorials is, modding, even texturing, is so heavily multifaceted.
1000 ways lead to rome...
The reason we don't have good, up-to-date tutorials on the biki is simply the lack of editors who know stuff about modding and got time to create such a tutorial.
faint nacelle
It feels like there is a big unfair pressure on modders these days. Their work should be free and free to use however anyone wants and they should also provide the guides and tutorials for people to make mods.
echo orchid
honestly, i said it before, if modding is important for BI, maybe they should so that themselves
^^tutorials that is
earnest mirage
I Mod myselve, and i pretty much agree
spark bay
honestly, i said it before, if modding is important for BI, maybe they should so that themselves
@echo orchid Finally someone who shares my opinion. I am thinking they should pay someone / some company to write tutorials, make videos etc. Modding and scripting is such an important part of the game, but documentation and tutorials feel neglected sometimes.
Anyway, back to the topic 🙂
proper mountain
i agree i would love to know how to script my apache to have the Ctrl T functunality of locking terrain and point tracking
rustic copper
@proper mountain Ask around in #arma3_scripting and/or #arma3_config
humble delta
What can be done about a mod that has content from multiple mods such as GRAD, Lambs, ACE, ADE and more but all of them have been rebranded. They have been opened, renamed, all paths changed and then repacked?
Also, forgot to mention. I own the rights to the ADE mod since it was a joint creation of me and another person and we both agree that it shouldn't be there
Is it grounds for a DMCA?
rustic copper
if you are sure it contains your script, models, textures, etc. then yes, that is more than enough for a DMCA
humble delta
Alright, Thanks
crystal talon
@humble delta I'd suggest running your mod through https://sqi.workshopcrawler.com/
vivid wave
xaxa
manic laurel
lul. hammer in their face
humble delta
Alright, so they have removed my mod from their packs, but they still have loads of other mods in there which haven't been removed.
Here are the links
I would file another DMCA but they no longer have my mods in there
humble delta
This also has a lot of reuploads
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2077295854
Same guy
somber cliff
Anyone here in touch with Adacas?
found a mod that reuploaded his Military Gear Pack addon
earnest mirage
So Just asking for myself, because my WW2 unit wanted to have a little more Control about how the Equipment looks, we Made Custom models (currently for the US and Stahlhelm), so i was wondering, If its legal to use those or If there are any disputes (we Perhibit hatesymbols on helmets)
rustic copper
as long as the models/textures are your own, and you don't break any laws regarding specific symbols/texts there shouldn't be any reason why it's not allowed
earnest mirage
Yea, No, Models are Made for free by my freind (thx wolf, Love ya)
We (since we are a diverse community) have Perhibited the Use of hatesymbols in any way, and allow representations of WW2 germany only in a way that it is legal in Germany Today, so swastika, and everything are nogos
wary hollow
They are technicly allowed in video games tho. I think.
soft egret
There was an exception made for one game afaik
because it was "art" and not used in a negative sense
wary hollow
Understandebel.
earnest mirage
As we don't want people to get offendet
And it was Part of the Deal with Wolf to Not Put hate Symbols on it
rustic copper
I believe in Germany games containing such symbols are banned outright, which is why you won't find them in games, or there's a modified version for the German market
wary hollow
Me too, but I rememberd (or atleast heard at sometime) that the ban on video games were lifted, could be wrong 🤷♂️
earnest mirage
Yea, but i think due to Public Outlash, Most Videogame companies refuse to use it/want to use it in the First place
Which is fair enough
wary hollow
Thats true
earnest mirage
See COD WW2 for example or Wolfenstein, all replaced it with the Iron Cross (Eisernes Kreuz)
wary hollow
I think, that any WW2 game released now, doesn't have it in Germany
rustic copper
But to answer your original question; as long as you own the rights of the contents in your mod there's nothing wrong with releasing it.
rustic copper
You have custom models, made by someone who gave you the rights to use them. Which is all perfectly fine.
So unless those models are ripped from another mod or game, there are no issues.
earnest mirage
Nope, Wolf has been going to school for modeling, He showed me His progress, so i'm 99.999% Sure its Not ripped
And Well looking at them in SSP, they are pretty Well Made too
scarlet patrol
wonder if there is a difference with swastikas in games like wolfenstein, where nazis are just enemies, and arma, where you can not only be a nazi, but also recreate all the fucked up shit they did in a roleplay setting.
rustic copper
The are still countries where it will result in a full ban, or as an 18+ game (meaning it cannot be sold in regular stores).
Eg. Castle Wolfenstein and Wolfenstein 3D (original) ware banned in Germany completely, while the newer games have a modified version with different symbols (and some other changes).
The laws in Germany have changed by now, so games won't be banned as fast anymore, but having an 18+ game makes it near impossible to sell (no advertisement, no sales, etc.)
Although there are still other countries (eg. Australia) where it's still not allowed and games will be banned for it.
So to ensure worldwide legal content BI has decided to not allow it at all.
kind moss
I've always found it weird how strict some groups are with symbolism. They are offended by a flag, but are completely fine with period-accurate uniforms, weapons, vehicles, and general acts of killing and blowing people up?
And for some reason it never seems to apply for soviet flag which seems to be fine to leave uncensored.
pine vault
Its all to the governments
Like you said, Soviet flags in russia arent banned from games, just like Confederate flags arent banned in American games, IRA Flags arent banned in GB games, it just depends on the govermnets and how they wanna do it
kind moss
Now that you mentioned it, I'm pretty sure there has been quite a lot of cry for attempts to ban confederate flags as well. I just dont understand the thought process. By denying the symbol, they pretend the history never happened? "Those who do not know history" and so forth..
pine vault
Similar
yes
Its just up to personal freedom
I personally dont think a flag has any place being controlled by law
Its cloth
Not saying im right or wrong
just thats how the world works
kind moss
I'm of the same mindset. But are they not transgressing on your personal freedom by denying access to historically accurate representation?
autumn glacier
I don't know if this is the right place, but I was found this Account: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198811701098/myworkshopfiles/?appid=107410&p=2 which hast repacked/extraced and reuploaded Mods from FFAA, SMA, MELB, ASR, PLP, ACE and more as far as i see. Just was want to report it so affected people can check their IP if they want.
earnest mirage
@pine vault @kind moss
The Main reason we don't allow it is because of German law, which has to be followed by the Main Part of our Community, If we'd Break that law, we could See serious fines or other Unnecceary Drama
kind moss
I understand and accept that part just fine. It's more the mindset of the people behind the laws and thought process that I cannot comprehend
earnest mirage
I (Transgender) personally don't Care If the swastika would be Shown, as it is a Part of History, yet i do Not/will never Support anyone Using the Swastika AS a hate Symbol, actually using Nazi Ideology, which we attempt to perhibit as best we can, yet we already Had issues with such people
Yea, i agree
In Germany its mainly to perhibit a 4th reich, i assume
kind moss
If 4th reich were to somehow become a thing, I'm sure they would find their own symbols to rally behind. Or simply completely abolish the law. Just seems such a misguided effort and overcompensation. Although I do understand how the experience has been traumatic to the entire nation as well.
Back in the day when information in general was more scarce, I suppose the ban actually was more effective. Now that people are connected and have access to vast amounts of information, banning such symbols just seems counter-intuitive.
earnest mirage
Yea, its an old law, mainly to prevent a second uprising in post-war germany
As they did the First time
The soviets Had basically portraied West Germany as the continuation of the Nazi Regime to all easterns
dull moon
If 4th reich were to somehow become a thing, I'm sure they would find their own symbols to rally behind.
on another discord i would have posted a EU flag. but that might be just a little too edgy here, so i don't...
earnest mirage
EU, the Evil Empire of the old world... LMAO
fossil basalt
There's a reason we closed the politics channel folks.
It does not contribute to the type of community we want.
pine vault
Yeah, just a sidetracked convo. Probably time to get back to channel topic
carmine folio
@dull moon i know exactly which one your talking about 🤣
arctic lily
tfw I muted every channel in the Arma 3 discord except for this and #other_ip_topics
earnest mirage
Same lmao
faint nacelle
The matters discussed here are not for your amusement and for the people actually making stuff they are in fact rather serious. Take your popcorn elsewhere thank you.
arctic lily
True. Not for my amusement. Just a side effect of watching as people repack 20 mods and steal a million models and dozens of PBOs, then write on the workshop page that they don’t allow “their mod” to be stolen
I personally find that amusing. Sure, not amusing for the original content creator, must suck for them and I honestly feel bad they have to go through all the C&Ds, DMCAs, counter DMCAs, and all the stacks of papers written in legalese
manic laurel
It is always good to see some justice served, of course
There is nothing nice in seeing your work taken away by some idiot, though - that is true
arctic lily
Indeed
scarlet patrol
gonna be honest, I find it pretty offensive that you guys enforce the rules so strictly and then promote guys like BIA on the comrad
manic laurel
"you guys"?
scarlet patrol
Bohemia Interactive
scarlet patrol
been ranting about them for a year
the guys that paid people to play as leadership and to make missions
which to my understanding breaks Eulas
rustic copper
At least the get kicked/banned on this Discord for it, and posts on Steam get reported for breaking the BI EULA...
So indeed a bit strange 🤔
scarlet patrol
were it for me they'd be banned from the game but ignoring that at least don't actively support them
fossil basalt
I would ban them as well.
scarlet patrol
I sound overly salty about it but I've been there and it becomes this toxic enviroement where people want to leave but stay for the money
snow bloom
They scammed myself and one other web developer as well
echo orchid
not the first time A3 social media cannot really figure out which is which. i can always send my blocked accounts if interested, did my research for it.
scarlet patrol
some sort of blacklist would be in order
wet ferry
@scarlet patrol have you worked with them before?
scarlet patrol
I've seen it being born
wet ferry
does it break the eula im not sure if im looking at the right page for it
scarlet patrol
you cannot get paid to use Bohemia interactive softwares
wet ferry
intresting they seem like a good bunch but i will keep a eye out
scarlet patrol
the owner is also lowkey racist but I guess there are no rules for that
wet ferry
why do they even pay if they do not have anything to gain
scarlet patrol
makes them grow faster I guess
wet ferry
surely they cant be that big?
scarlet patrol
no idea
rustic copper
82 members on the website
wet ferry
so not that big
scarlet patrol
82 members too many
but yeah if you promise cash for staff and special roles you're probably gonna have a steady recruitment flow
wet ferry
i mean surely if they are breaking eula they would have been dealt with already right?
scarlet patrol
breaking eula only really bans you from forums and discords
you don't get banned from the game
wet ferry
if you dont mind sanchez i still cant find it anywhere in the eula can you give me a link and a line to look at?
scarlet patrol
wet ferry
seems like a grey area to me
im no lawyer so i dont understand the scope of it but yeah
scarlet patrol
whats hard to understand about it?
Exploit the Program or any of its parts for any commercial purpose
wet ferry
i dont know maybe its just written in a way where it can cover alot and its not specific
scarlet patrol
dude it can't be more clear than that
exploit the Program (Arma 3) for any commercial purpose (paid Teamleading/missionmaking)
wet ferry
but in the arma steam forums has a section called "community job offers & hires" where people advertise jobs that are paid
scarlet patrol
you can get paid to make 3 models
or to make scripts/websites
wet ferry
i mean theres alot of things on that topic that contain stuff like "mission maker for hire"
scarlet patrol
welp thats not allowed
I'm the first one who would like to get paid for mission making but I don't and I understand why not
snow bloom
You could argue that they’re not paying the person to play the game or to make missions, but rather paying for their time
Not defending them, but it’s a point to consider
scarlet patrol
my guideline is that if my business can't continue without the existence of a software I didn't make, then I shouldn't be the only one being paid
especially if the software wasn't created with the purpose of creating businesses
snow bloom
Okay but doesn’t that mean that game developers should be getting a cut from every content creator out there? As their business cannot exist without the existence of the games the play
It’s a poor guideline
At least in my opinion
rustic copper
especially if the software wasn't created with the purpose of creating businesses
That is a bit harsh, since a lot of software isn't build for that purpose and still used by a lot of companies to make money
snow bloom
By content creator I’m referring to streamers and youtubers btw
scarlet patrol
not really a deep rooted take, but I feel like it gets the point across
a lot of software isn't build for that purpose and still used by a lot of companies to make money
like what?
I feel like content creators deserve their own criteria
not an exception, just a different angle
snow bloom
What about esports?
You cannot use a blanket guideline like that, it’s just not effective
rustic copper
Microsoft Windows is a good example; it's not build to make money by third parties, but the amount of developers and sysadmins who make money with it is huge
snow bloom
Same with Adobe suite
scarlet patrol
yeah fair
but for small domestic productions it works
rustic copper
PS. not saying that BIA isn't doing something against the EULA of Arma, but saying that it applies to all software/games is wrong
faint nacelle
If you pay someone for their time to use a program in a way you want thats exactly what it sounds like
scarlet patrol
glad its undoubted
but yeah never though of my take so deeply
if I were to apply it to that extent everything that had windows installed should not exist
faint nacelle
I dont think windows has non commercial clause in its eula
Arma and many games on the other hand do have that
scarlet patrol
yeah I guess eulas are a good way to police that less generally
faint nacelle
only exception is the monetization program where server owners can apply to be able to monetize Arma and mods
scarlet patrol
even though the ripercussions for breaking eulas are very neglectable, I feel there should be harsher rules when there is money involved
rustic copper
To the extent included with Windows, Word, Excel, PowerPoint and OneNote are licensed for your personal, non-commercial use, unless you have commercial use rights under a separate agreement.
^^ Microsoft Windows Software License
and to be fair; even when modding you can work around the EULA and get money for it...
You let people pay for your time, scripts (not using Arma Tools), models (no Arma Tools needed), etc. and do the Arma integration for free.
faint nacelle
well I suppose it makes whoever making commercial use liable to be sued too
so if someone were to make millions BI could go after those
Arma integration for free is total 🦍 💩
if you get paid to do X and do Y for "free"
its getting paid for X and Y
its just play on words
scarlet patrol
I feel like a lawyer could easly debunk the "pay for your time " thing
rustic copper
I know 😉 But technically it's possible (and it's actually used)
faint nacelle
you wouldnt do it for free if you were not paid for X
"technically" many things is possible. if taken to court it likely would not hold.
so its quite risky
scarlet patrol
its much harder to classify when there is no contract
faint nacelle
It might be best to not advocate for such methods either
scarlet patrol
can you be taken to court for monetizing mods or other arma related services?qp
rustic copper
if you make enough money, yes, for breaking the contract with BI
faint nacelle
and on the other hand people on other channels complain loudly for any idea of paid mods
rustic copper
although BI doesn't spend the time and money on small fish (at least haven't seen it happen )
scarlet patrol
how much is "enough"
I recall BIA pays around 100 a month for mission makers and a bit less for leaders and pilots
scarlet patrol
idk its been nearby 2 years since I've reported them and nothing happened
don't really think they'll get sued, would just appreciate if they didnt get endorsed by BI itself
fluid elbow
Where are the old and good OFP communities which did addons, mods and missions for the community and not for their salary.. in Arma 3 arent many developers which do the work only for the community.. in these years, many things have been changed.. sadly.. on the whole world it goes only about money money money..
Still, thumbs up for mod developers which do the hard work for the community and 90% of their work looks better than the paid stuff of other mod developers + are mostly lagfree, error free and gives no eye cancer.. keep it up guys, such devs are the real devs of this community!
rapid cypress
gonna be honest, I find it pretty offensive that you guys enforce the rules so strictly and then promote guys like BIA on the comrad
@scarlet patrol Wait they got mentioned in the COMRAD
fossil basalt
breaking eula only really bans you from forums and discords
you don't get banned from the game
@scarlet patrol
Incorrect.
scarlet patrol
huh really?
been told several times that the best they could do is that
though it was true since nobody of those guys got banned
echo orchid
can you be taken to court for monetizing mods or other arma related services?qp
@scarlet patrol yes you could, and damages could be asked of you
idk its been nearby 2 years since I've reported them and nothing happened
don't really think they'll get sued, would just appreciate if they didnt get endorsed by BI itself
@scarlet patrol are they using mods?
echo orchid
Where are the old and good OFP communities which did addons, mods and missions for the community and not for their salary.. in Arma 3 arent many developers which do the work only for the community.. in these years, many things have been changed.. sadly.. on the whole world it goes only about money money money..
Still, thumbs up for mod developers which do the hard work for the community and 90% of their work looks better than the paid stuff of other mod developers + are mostly lagfree, error free and gives no eye cancer.. keep it up guys, such devs are the real devs of this community!
@fluid elbow making a mod for a3 is several time harder than it was back in ofp days, and that isn’t just content wise. but rules are rules, being able to monetize a server and not an addon doesn’t help much either
judging from the website they do ifa3 and rhs/cup?
@scarlet patrol in that case, that goes against rhs eula. it’s still monetization
scarlet patrol
get in line I guess
echo orchid
neah mate, i don’t wait on bi to solve my own license issues
scarlet patrol
don't quote me on that though
just noticed they did modern US stuff and usually its either from RHS or CUP
fossil basalt
Sanchez, BI can game ban a user at any time if they chose so, it is their "nuclear option". Whilst it has been used, it isn't used often enough.
scarlet patrol
surely hasn't been used on them
echo orchid
bi can also battleye ban servers
scarlet patrol
nevermind @echo orchid you can quote me on that
echo orchid
don't quote me on that though
just noticed they did modern US stuff and usually its either from RHS or CUP
@scarlet patrol they do yes, so they are in my sights now
@dull moon do you lads allow monetization for these lads?
fluid elbow
I know that in Arma 3 are things harder to do and its also a lot more time consuming. I talk about the main principe what addons and modifications are and where it came from. But most people see money in this now and dont really do it FOR the community. And i dont support such acting.
Monetize a server is also such a thing.. there were nowhere such server. I only know in these times we had a clan server and we paid a bit for the host as clan member, and also we did a CTI server for the publics.. but noone of the publics had to pay for the server. We did it for the publics.
scarlet patrol
there were probably idiots back then aswell
its more noticeable now with all the life communities
echo orchid
I know that in Arma 3 are things harder to do and its also a lot more time consuming. I talk about the main principe what addons and modifications are and where it came from. But most people see money in this now and dont really do it FOR the community. And i dont support such acting.
Monetize a server is also such a thing.. there were nowhere such server. I only know in these times we had a clan server and we paid a bit for the host as clan member, and also we did a CTI server for the publics.. but noone of the publics had to pay for the server. We did it for the publics.
@fluid elbow honestly modding was never about “community”, people who have been around this francise doing mods are doing that for themselves
also, server monetization was supposed to get some control towqrds bi over something that was already happening aince a2 days
but you cannot have control if you so not also follow up and enforce these rules
fluid elbow
I do my mod for the community. Also its for me and my team but the community is on the first place. Thats my philosophy.
fluid elbow
People always search for the grey areas. I had a discussion with a life modder too in Facebook, this guy was selling his ripped stuff, declared it as its his work and for price send a PM..
Talked to this guy and his answer was just "I know its not legal, but I sell only the model in a other file format and give him the config & stuff for free"...
These people know it that its not okey, and such people destroy the community for their own money interests.. and fool other people which dont know the rules and such.. but its a grey area and can do it legal like that..
scarlet patrol
I guess the truth is in the middle
fluid elbow
What kind of burnout?
scarlet patrol
do it for yourself and you'll be your only subscriber
do it only for others and you'll burnout from doin something you don't want to do
personally my approach is "be the change you want to see"
clichè but true
echo orchid
What kind of burnout?
@fluid elbow work burnout, when it feels like a job
fluid elbow
I do it for me and my team, cause we all grow up in these time, and we do it for the community to share our nice stuff. And we allow community suggestions too and also support them in our way. Whats wrong with that. Is the modding philosophy such lost in these times? Are now all going to be egoistic? I like to help the community and share what we did, and also support them.
PuFu, i do it now 16years, and its still a hobby and not a must for me. Also its not a job for me.. we work on it when we got the feels and time for it. Never feeled it like its a must
echo orchid
do it for yourself and you'll be your only subscriber
@scarlet patrol not actually true.
scarlet patrol
@echo orchid by that I mean stuff like adding your name to vests or do stuff for your unit
echo orchid
yeah, i get it
@fluid elbow again, we are talking about the same thing here. you do it for your own self, and for your mates, your groups, your squad mates whatever. you share it because why not. people at large fail to understand that this is still a hobby, done in free time. the moment you take at heart all the requests, all the whinny blokes, and you put time into something even if you have no mood for it just to get something done out the door, that’s when the burnout kicks in
i’ve been involved with mods since 2007, so yes, i am not talking out of my ass here
scarlet patrol
I delay by a month adding an F button to my coffin mod every time I get a DM requesting it
so expect it by 2022
crystal talon
Feels like this got a bit derailed
echo orchid
it did
scarlet patrol
well the BIA topic can't really go anywhere else
the rest is up to BI
fluid elbow
Me 3years earlier as mod starter.. and i dont share it cause "why not".. its cause i want to share it with the community and for the community.
A burnout happens when you are not strong enough and you let it happen. Like i said, i dont feel that its a must, its a hobby. Life things, work and the important things still got priority.
B2T i think 😅
Wasnt there a list somewhere which servers are allowed for monetizations by BI?
crystal talon
I think that only covers players paying to play on servers
scarlet patrol
there is but they couldn't cover the stuff they do
its mostly for cosmetics purchases iirc
crystal talon
not the other way around
rapid cypress
scarlet patrol
I've tried to make sure they got what they deserve for so long it took a toll on me, my blood boils every time I hear about them
so I tried to just forget about them until I saw the comrad
strong is the salt in me
fluid elbow
Karma fixes mostly everything in any time 🤷♂️
scarlet patrol
guess Karma took the scenic road
would be a nice Birthday gift though
sonic moss
I know of a certain individual who has benn ripping Arma 3 models and models from 2 mods im working on, putting them into substance painter and passing them off as "retextures" to people. Other mod authors and I have asked him to stop stealing our models and days later he posts other screesnhots and livestreams texturing them in substance painter. Is there anything that can be done to stop this guy? I have screenshots and a discord profile.
dull moon
@echo orchid
only CUP Terrains - Core and CUP Terrains - Maps can be used on a monetized server, if a formal request was made prior. anything else from us is off limits.
if no request was made, monetization of Core and Maps is illegal, and i can not remember handing out any permission lately
fossil basalt
@sonic moss You could also inform one of us moderators and we can have a few words with the individual (if they are a part of this community (Discord/Forum)).
sonic moss
He is not in here:/ Not sure how to proceed
fossil basalt
We could always look into it, we know a lot of people.
fossil basalt
Send to me via DM
kind moss
We could always look into it, we know a lot of people.
Doesn't sound ominous at all 👀
lone basin
https://armaservices.net/product/lile-darz/ (link to ASN store selling what appears to be a map) is that allowed, because afaik, there's no way to create a full map without using A3 Tools somewhere?
faint nacelle
Hmm yeah if its in fully playable from yeah it cant be sold
only source files could be made outside of the tools pipeline
lone basin
Ile d’Arz completely finished! In Brittany France!
Size 6.5 km by 6.5 km with 6 islands and are the main islands!
Map with required mods
That's the description of their product so I assume that the map is in a playable state?
faint nacelle
yah sounds like it
lone basin
I'll contact BI about that then 🙂
faint nacelle
yeah that site is just 😑
lone basin
Arg, actually I think I opened the pandora box: they have 2 pages of "assets" (maps, models)
faint nacelle
Yeah looks like they've been expanding the selection again. Probably they defend themselves as just offering a marketplace service.
lone basin
Worst part is that people keep buying those things, and I'm pretty sure that the quality isn't really that greate 🤷
faint nacelle
yaah likely not
probably partly why commercial use is not allowed is the quality control
rapid cypress
Btw got some more reuploads
Lingor/Dingor is in the map pack ( @latent mesa )
aswell as Vinjesvingen ( @royal gulch )
http://prntscr.com/ux9zdv
fluid elbow
@rapid cypress is the HTNK also in this modpack reuploaded?
faint nacelle
since its a modpack I doubt theres anything original in there
scarlet patrol
its so fun to just pick obvious reuploads and repacking and run them through the workshop crawler
rapid cypress
@rapid cypress is the HTNK also in this modpack reuploaded?
@fluid elbow According to the disclaimer in the modpacks files there's both original and non-original stuff in there but I dont know how trustworthy that is
Here's the file structure of the HTNK pbo http://prntscr.com/uxbebi
fluid elbow
its just about i do know the original author of this HTNK.pbo, its the X-66 Mammoth tank by GSViper (one of my developers of my C&C mod)
rapid cypress
If you want I can pm you the pbo file so you can take a look at it/pass it on to the author
fluid elbow
pbo file is one thing, the other is the reupload
rapid cypress
yeah but if you have the pbo file you can see if its a reupload of the mod
fluid elbow
if its in this mod package then it is a reupload, reuploaded with the modpackage. or did you have to subscribe the X-66 mammoth tank in steam?
rapid cypress
nope
fluid elbow
Viper updates his tank sometimes, last update was 10. March 2020, if he updates it again, people will not have actual version of it, if they load it by such mod package or if they load it by a reupload
latent mesa
It seems already taken down!
rapid cypress
Yep it looks like the owners privated/deleted it yesterday shortly after the report
manic laurel
there is an impostor among us 👀 /joining the bandwagon
rapid cypress
orange sus 👀
faint nacelle
😑
spark bay
This stuff is so toxic. I hope we get a better solution in the future.
So many ignorant ppl.
rapid cypress
Just throw a community ban at everyone that does stuff like upload modpacks to the workshop
spare osprey
Not everyone knows how to make a dummy mod.
Sometimes some education goes a long way.
Maybe a dedicated page biki page about server mod managment would help. Or some solutions to common problems. It won’t solve the the stealing problem but it might help with ignorance.
snow bloom
Some form of version selection on the workshop would be nice, so that you can choose when you update your client/server
rapid cypress
Not everyone knows how to make a dummy mod.
Dummy mod? @spare osprey
spare osprey
Dummy mod
Makes keeping clients on the same page simple. IT support step 1 unload all mods. Step 2 load dummy mod and dependency .
manic laurel
one that lists all dependencies, so you only subscribe to one yes 
faint nacelle
Actually some sort of in game guide for that might be good
manic laurel
…why in-game? 🤔
faint nacelle
because thats the place people might see it in
manic laurel
like people would read 😄
spare osprey
^
rapid cypress
Wouldnt it be easier to just use a html file rather than a workshop mod?
faint nacelle
because people have hard time finding things
they might read it if they can find it
¯_(ツ)_/¯
spare osprey
I would have to hope that if your repacking mods you are reading the biki to get the info
manic laurel
mods are not made from within the game, so fat chance for them to read
but somewhere else, I sure wish
where do people go to "make a modpack"? do they just make a zip of pbo's and post it on Steam, or does it take more than that?
spare osprey
Usually steam but there are google drive links that go around
echo orchid
most gdrive links that go around are plagued with ripped stuff that would be DMCAed the second day on Steam
spare osprey
The html links work for some. I like the dummy mod as it makes tech support easy and there isn’t multiple versions growing around.
manic laurel
I am all to create a "Make a Modpack" wiki article (honeypot title) to show them instead how to make a dummy mod
if someone wants to give me the basics
keen trout
It's a shame that collections don't integrate that well with the launcher
dull moon
uhm guys... dummy mod what?!?
i don't wanna spoil too much, but have you heard about steam collections?
rustic copper
steam collections and HTML presets, all you need to share mod lists 🤷♂️
dull moon
☝️
manic laurel
uhm guys... dummy mod what?!?
i don't wanna spoil too much, but have you heard about steam collections?
HAH! I knew I saw something like that somewhere
but it is not helpful for a server, right?
jagged tide
That could be a request for future launcher updates for "the title we shall not mention". Steam collection support.
rapid cypress
I think HTML presets are pretty much fine
jagged tide
Anything that saves people from the "but I just wanted to" excuse would be good 😛
rapid cypress
Dont really see the need for other stuff
I think HTML presets already throw out that excuse
rustic copper
but it is not helpful for a server, right?
Tools like FAST/FASTER can import HTML files too, and Steam collections work like a mod (although no idea if those tools accept those).
For TCAdmin (hosting tool) it supports Steam Collections, so no excuse there
dull moon
but it is not helpful for a server, right?
whoever updates a server without a custom steamCMD batch file is no real server admin 😛
spare osprey
Dummy mod doesn’t help the server either. The issue with steam collections is that you still need to load the mods manually.
Html is fine but you would be surprised to know how many don’t know how to use it and old versions can be passed around.
The main benefit of the dummy mod is tech support. I can basically control all members mods list.
keen trout
Any removed mods from the dummy mod would still be present in the launcher for old users
Presets help against that
It’s a shame that a collection can’t be a preset
It’s trivial to make a preset generator from a collection though
Especially for public collections
spare osprey
Agree yeah it’s not a perfect solution, I wish mods were just server side and I didn’t need to worry about the client
keen trout
With signature validation turned on only valid mods are allowed
Assuming the mod creator does proper versioning
And launcher integrates fine with server defined mods, especially with dedmen’s fix for steam query limit on server with profiling branch
rustic copper
Agree yeah it’s not a perfect solution, I wish mods were just server side and I didn’t need to worry about the client
That wouldn't work, since everything needs to be loaded at the client. And downloading many GB's of data every time you join a server would be terrible...
Already seen missions which took ages to load since people put massive amounts of crap in it.
keen trout
Launcher can sub and download mods defined by a server
rustic copper
yup, so another reason why dummy mods or mod (re-)packs are not needed
but yes, the Steam Query Limit fix will solve a huge issue a lot of problems units/communities have
spare osprey
Dummy mod works , really well for my group I’ve tried the other methods and had issues.
keen trout
Except for the removal of mods or user “accidentally” adding extra mods
paper prawn
The one thing that is constantly mentioned but never implemented by Valve is clients being able to either turn off auto-updates on mods or implement versioning support. This is only really an issue for those of us who run 24x7x365 servers and have real-life jobs too but it would be nice. This does not excuse those who rip mods supposedly for that reason - in the five years I have been running persistant ARMA 3 servers I have never contemplated that despite players being locked out of a server for a day until I can update the server
More the clients being able to start ARMA without a mod update if they choose tbh... It really is only an issue from when the Workshop is updated until when the server is updated...
rustic copper
although in that case people need to have multiple versions of the same mod if they play on different servers, because one might update directly while the other only updates after a week
I guess having version control (eg. max 2-3 versions) would make sense, or have the possibility to have different branches (dev, rc, production) to handle broken mods after an update
paper prawn
True... probably why there is no support for it. To be honest, it's not really a big deal in my case, I can usually update within a few hours and my regulars are understanding of IRL commitments
Just as a server owner you hate to see them playing another server 😉
rustic copper
actually the workshop does have version control; as a mod publisher I can rollback to any update
afaik
yup, is possible: https://imgur.com/a/SOm2o3C
still doesn't fix the issue for servers/clients
paper prawn
That's why my comment said client
rustic copper
but having the option for a server/client to select which version to use would already solve the issue
paper prawn
Ofc the problem would be that some would just run old versions and then want support from modders, like happens with these ripped workshop uploads... No ideal solution really
keen trout
It’s the same thing when a game update is released. Server must be updated before patched clients can join.
paper prawn
Except that Bohemia actually provide a beta code for the previous release, so different
keen trout
User would need to find the password for the previous release to activate the branch. Probably not something for average joe
paper prawn
SPOTREPs have A Legacy Build Steam branch is available for advanced users. It contains the previous significant main branch version (1.96). It can be used to compare specific changes between major releases. The access code for this branch is: Arma3Legacy196 in them... so not that hard
rustic copper
as if people read mod descriptions 🤣
paper prawn
Depends on the server ofc... my community discord is pretty helpful to players who are having issues until I can update ARMA on those occassions I don't update pdq
rustic copper
I also keep track of updates and server admins make sure everything is up-to-date 24/7, but I know that it's not always possible, especially with larger modpacks
paper prawn
Yeah. Some mods are very good with their discords and letting people know "hey, we'll be dropping an update on Thursday" - CUP particularly nowadays. Some not so much, and ofc sometimes hotfixes just have to drop when you're asleep
zealous ledge
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2255369827 and https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2243752816 some of my buddies just hit me up with this. has Dedman's Arma Zeus Cache: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1908099028 repacks on a monetized server.
fossil basalt
What is the monetised server? @zealous ledge
zealous ledge
wait one.
@fossil basalt heres one 95.181.153.229. Will ping if i get ahold of the other.
95.181.153.226 There's the other
ts5.voice-server.ru:10136 <-- TS server
ok, found it.
earnest mirage
Ahh i See, mjr doing some good Work Here too lol @zealous ledge
zealous ledge
im around @earnest mirage
earnest mirage
I know, i've Seen you in several Servers already
soft egret
@lone basin no selling that terrain is not allowed. That website is long known for violating monetization rules though.
paper prawn
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1278609853 Contains Reyhard's RDS Civilian Pack, Ryan's Zombies and Demons, LMount, HueyPack, GGzerosum's M1 and more
faint nacelle
@alpine path your pack, pls clean up
alpine path
What?
soft egret
@alpine path thats your illegal workshop reupload that also violates our #rules
Take it down
topaz cloak
I will take care of it
alpine path
I Leave the Arma Discord now. Cya
faint nacelle
I guess thats one way to bear responsibility.
topaz cloak
He is not responsible for it. I will take care of it
faint nacelle
then he had no need to leave. Everyone is free to come and go as they like though
topaz cloak
Yea I dont know , I guess he dosent wants to be here on this discord
spark bay
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2255162523 is this allowed?
frosty mulch
Yes
faint nacelle
well the use of official VBS2 graphics in the preview is IP theft unfortunately
if "remake" is real remake and nothing is copied over from VBS like scripts and such then it should be legit
manic thorn
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manic laurel
yes, among other things
manic thorn
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manic laurel
here, no
manic thorn
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soft egret
Incase this credit is not enough please feel free to talk to me on steam and if you wish for the content to be removed please read to the EULA that explains users are free to edit, modify, and redistribute content which is uploaded to the steam workshop.
first part of the sentence tells you that he doesn't have permission. Second one tells you he doesn't know anything about copyright or how to even read a EULA
manic thorn
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soft egret
@stoic beacon then
manic thorn
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manic laurel
added my little comment there. the guy is hopeful
please read to the EULA that explains users are free to edit, modify, and redistribute content
When you upload your content to Steam to make it available to other users and/or to Valve (…) This license is granted to Valve (…)
soft egret
More from same user, no idea whats in there
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2228282413
manic thorn
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manic thorn
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soft egret
now wait till some of the mods authors have time to DMCA it
manic laurel
@manic thorn they are available in the "Comments" tab actually
manic thorn
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stoic beacon
Im quite limited on time atm, so if anyone of the other guys wants to deal with it, that’d save me some work ^^
austere ibex
Hello,
Does anyone know if the WarHammer mod is violating any IP rights ?
I'd like to know before I start promoting their work :S
normal prairie
No
soft egret
Questionable, most likely yes.
rustic copper
well... one way to find out is by reading the IP Policy: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Intellectual-Property-Policy
no idea if the WH mod is actually complying to all of that (since usually devs of such projects don't care about IP rights...)
scarlet patrol
from what I've read there it checks out
they don't have any specific rule for modding games after their work but from the current rules I'd say its ok, just don't quote me on it.
carmine folio
I think this came up before and they were in the clear, but same as Sanchez - don't quote me on it ;)
vivid scarab
It's in the clear for now - the company has generally turned a blind eye to fan works where they aren't attempting to turn a profit, and aren't trying to pass it off as official. If the mod or the team start to cause damage to the brand by association (see: Arch, as an example) then they'll likely be told to cease.
rustic copper
If you check the link I posted you can read that they support fan created content, as long as it meets their rules (non-commercial, no copyright infringement, correct use of trademarks, etc.).
But they also state:
Producing copies of Games Workshop’s creations is an infringement of copyright; this includes copying a significant part of our creations. Making models which copy heavily from Games Workshop’s artwork, descriptions or products is therefore an infringement. Is it instantly recognisable as one of Games Workshop’s unique characters, creatures or vehicles? If so, it has likely copied a significant part and is therefore an infringement. Just because we haven’t gotten around to making the model yet doesn’t mean you can.
Which means it's a grey area, although I believe that TIOW is safe in this regard.
fluid elbow
no idea if the WH mod is actually complying to all of that (since usually devs of such projects don't care about IP rights...)
@rustic copper
I care about IP stuff. I had to talk with EA and also with Nillers about my mod to keep things clear. And i got some guidelines by EA i have to follow etc..
Internet can be dangerous today
rustic copper
I'm not a IP lawyer, so my comments are based on common sense and I try to formulate it in such way.
However if the project is following all the rules and guidelines given by the IP holders than I don't see any issues on why it's not allowed, and as you said you have made sure that it does.
Although we both know that not all projects do this and usually ignore copyright/IP/trademarks under the "fair use" excuse, which is why I (and most other people in this channel) are extremely cautious when it comes to it.
scarlet patrol
I believe that most of that part talks about figurines models and not 3d models
fluid elbow
I look at it with respect. And also to be save. Like i said, internet can be dangerous. + OFP, Arma Series are more than my half life, also modding in these games too, started 2004 with it. And i dont want to get troubles with BI and also not with EA. So i had to talk with both for the right solution.
We do all models our own, but the designs and ideas and names are their IP. + we are also allowed to use their original music soundtracks, but also there is a guideline by EA to announce the track by its author, and also with the copyright and inc. and all rights reserved. At least, EA isnt that bad like many think.. Blizzard, Disney or other are way more district and dont allow any kind of modifications.
But @rustic copper you are right.. many people dont care about it and think they can do what they want. And the "fair use" isnt safe at all.
austere ibex
@fluid elbow Are you from TIOW team or are you talking about other mods you created ?
faint nacelle
TIOW is self made and legit. Games workshop allows the fan made content as long as no money is made with them.
Most current warhammer mods are like that but there is of course always the possibility that someone makes the mistake of short cutting with ripped assets.
vivid scarab
The ripped asset thing is also tolerated, to a degree, by Games Workshop.
Obscurus Crusade had a fairly lengthy back and forth with Geedub over their pepakura files a few years back - which were created using ripped files from Space Marine.
It's a fairly different situation altogether, admittedly.
faint nacelle
ripped assets are never tolerated if the IP owner gets wiff of such
and using ripped assets dangers all legit fan made things
you should never ever claim that kind of nonsense
Relic might not be aware of this transgression but they can at any time shut them down
and using ripped models have now tainted everything done with them
and everyone who have used them could get into serious trouble even
vivid scarab
¯_(ツ)_/¯
They turned a blind eye to it in this specific instance - whether or not Relic caught wind of it is another matter entirely, however a cursory look at the forums indicates the files are still there close to a decade later.
They were used as the basis for the files, which is the questionable bit - but not entirely unheard of. The 405th has pulled the same stunt for over a decade now, and they've been recognised repeatedly by 343i and Microsoft.
faint nacelle
who are they?
faint nacelle
ah Halo
thats completely different matter as Microsoft/Halo IP handling is very different
40K and GW has a lot stricter rules
and Id wager relic was just never informed of the IP theft you mentioned above
that just does not make it right
or wise to say its ok to do so because those guys happened to do so and are not shut down yet
vivid scarab
I'm aware - Games Workshop's licensing with external parties is incredibly odd, from what I've been told. Ownership but not ownership in many cases.
faint nacelle
That I know nothing about.
major known IP holders usually allow fan made stuff but when a work released somewhere is taken and put somewhere else that is theft though
and that should not be endorsed
vivid scarab
They are an odd one, to say the least. I'm not entirely certain on the vagaries of the Relic x Geedub relationship, but I know from some of the work they've done with mobile developers (Freeblade in particular) they waived the right to exercise ownership over certain assets they produced.
faint nacelle
whats geedub?
vivid scarab
Games Workshop.
vivid scarab
Earnest mistake - it's relatively common slang for people familiar with the company.
faint nacelle
never heard anyone use it and I've been hammerist for 20+ years.
so best to stick with real names
vivid scarab
Aye. Regardless, it is incredibly dicey territory to tread.
faint nacelle
yes. which is why no one should endanger the people doing legit fanwork by stealing assets from games.
as GW could go the other way and go full Disney and forbit all their IP use outside licensed partners
vivid scarab
Something that's had me curious for a while - how does that relate to photogrammetry, and digital scanning? Because surely it'd be an IP violation to scan a vehicle or a structure and use it as the basis for a model you're producing.
faint nacelle
if you do the model over it, then Id wager its the same as doing if based on photos. Dont quote me on that though
however if you use the photogrammetry model straight up you are heading to danger zone
also if the model is painted and assembled by someone else then you are taking their work
vivid scarab
Yeah, that's the vibe I've been picking up - as that's really just a copy & paste.
I was thinking more in relation to real-world vehicles, as opposed to miniatures. I imagine there's some leeway given to historical examples, but more recent military equipment or civilian vehicles must be an absolute no-go.
faint nacelle
3D models made in likeness of real world cars are likely never fully accurate
scanned model might be something the car manufacturer might latch on to and sue your ass off
My common sense says, not worth finding out
Id apply the same to buildings too
and likely in the future when the 3D scanning tech evolves these matters will be fought in courts
especially when money gets more involved
vivid scarab
Better to not get slapped at the end of the day. I remember the controversy that Activision had over HMVEE's that... I believe they eventually won in court, to a degree? Ubisoft had some mild issues with Assassin's Creed Unity as well over structural scanning, but that wound up being waived in the end due to the historical import of some of the structures or some such.
faint nacelle
If you are big company with big lawyers then its easier to go to court
vivid scarab
Yeah, that's my interest in the subject. I'm curious to see how it all evolves, as the technology has the potential to be insanely useful for designers of all calibres - it'll just need to appropriately regulated.
faint nacelle
well
Im actually little worried it will set back designing and endorse more copying
vivid scarab
Mm, I can see that being an issue as well. I'd rather people used it as a basis but I imagine the temptation to copy and paste will be too severe in many cases.
vivid scarab
I've run into that twice this year already with logos I've designed - it's not great.
fluid elbow
@fluid elbow Are you from TIOW team or are you talking about other mods you created ?
@austere ibex
No im doing my own modification. Its a Command & Conquer Tiberian Sun mod called Tiberian Genesis.
austere ibex
@faint nacelle Thanks for your detailed answer
chilly silo
I believe that most of that part talks about figurines models and not 3d models
The medium does not matter when it comes to IP.
heavy moon
they also state this in their IP page:
If you think you have a winning idea and want to make a video game, an app, some merchandise, a movie or anything else that you will be distributing (either for free or at a cost) using Games Workshop’s IP then you need permission in the form of a license from Games Workshop. If you've got a strong vision of something you want to produce, using our imagery, and have a sound plan to make it a reality, then the people to talk to are our licensing department. They really want to hear from you! You can reach them at licensing@gwplc.com.
so yes to use any Games Workshop IP you need a licence from them.
fluid elbow
But Games Workshop sounds friendly for any fan made stuff, they are trying to give the little finger (just dont take the whole hand at least),same like EA, they want that you ask for any permission and they do have a extra permission request internet site. Blizzard or Disney are completly different to fan made stuff and do not allow anything.
earnest mirage
BF2 is Disney's IP (assuming you eman BATTLEFRONT Not BATTLEFIELD, both are EA)
earnest mirage
Yea but usually BF2 and EA in one sentence, means Battlefront... Due to... Obvious reasons
earnest mirage
I know, yet in relation to specifically this Channel...
Well lets say SWBF2 Had Something To-Do with the SWOP Thing...
heavy moon
BF2 + EA for me means Battlefield 2. Semantics aside, use someone else's Intellectual Property without licence, expect to be DMCA'd or worse 🙂
fluid elbow
As far as i know was or is the shutdown not cause of any IP things. They just dont support these games anymore. Thats why they have shutted down BF2 servers and also other servers too. People tried to make own servers and cause of the nonsupport EA shutted these also down.
EA will shut down online support for 50 of its older games on June 30, including Battlefield 2 for PC, Crysis 2 for PC and several installments in the FIFA and Command & Conquer series. ... "The decisions to retire older EA games are never easy," reads an update on EA's website
dull moon
but battlefield2 has dedicated server files that come with the game. it's just that it use(d) gamespy which does not exist anymore, but some geeks found other ways to keep the network running
soft egret
The BF2 community gamespy server that I use (BF2Hub) is afaik still up and fine tho
cobalt creek
uff, 3 years ago:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/10/27/old-battlefied-games-killed-after-ea-legal-warning/
and iirc, BF2142* Server were also closed
soft egret
3 years ago
Well BF2Hub is still running fine
fluid elbow
Its the same with Command & Conquer Renegade. A community called W3D Hub did a own launcher and you can join to MP servers about it. But W3D Hub has EA's permission to do this.
manic laurel
yEAh
normal prairie
🤣
scarlet patrol
how dare you make something we don't want to do
near ingot
@manic thorn Also parts of my EODS+ are in the mod pack which he has uploaded without my permission
manic thorn
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heavy moon
click the flag icon underneath the item image, and file a dmca notice on it (there is link within the dialog that opens which allows you to file DMCA complaint)
give them evidence in the complaint it contains your content - for example: link to your item page on workshop, pbo names, and such like.
normal prairie
Does lost brothers mod is violating any ip?
winged plank
I was always wondering how the dmca violation is detected in arma missions🤔
It should be like manualy reported by other player or smth?
rustic copper
It's simple; anyone can report content on the workshop to Valve for containing content against the EULA.
DMCA's can be supplied by the owner (or someone assigned by the owner) of the content which is breaching Copyright/Trademark/IP/EULA.
This is a manual job (and very time consuming) though the workshop page, although I'm sure Valve also has an email for larger companies to supply a DMCA directly.
manic thorn
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manic thorn
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vivid wave
If you meant this one https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=930264602, he isn't
scarlet patrol
no I'm not
manic laurel
@manic thorn no
manic thorn
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manic laurel
@manic thorn
a quote should be enough
manic thorn
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manic laurel
and whatever he posts in description, he still is in the wrong in reposting.
it's not a "I called dibs before you!" game ^^
zinc solstice
Yo, I have someone trying to sell me mods
manic laurel
^
zinc solstice
I didnt even ask what is it, but I'd guess its some ripped content or something