Waiting for CWR2 to jump to ARMA 3
https://luchins.com/admin/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/skeleton-cobwebs-waiting.jpg
#ip_rights_violations
hot cedar
paper prawn
Oh look... It's Paul Allen... How's your port of PedagneMod going?
Funnily enough... you may be in the right place...
gentle isle
Things that would really be cool to make the jump would be things that haven't been done anywhere else, like the Dutch, Norwegian, and Danish militaries from CWR2.
dull moon
at some point people will for sure jump the train on such factions
maybe not with CWA content from arma 2, but from scratch
gentle isle
I wouldn't hold my breath.
dull moon
there might be an announcement tomorrow, or in 2 years... who knows
paper prawn
Get permission from CWR2 to do them and cool. You know the other thing you can do... make them yourselves or join a team like CUP or others and retexture their stuff... they always cry out for content developers. All of them. That way you can have both the satisfaction of seeing what you want in game and getting the credit for doing it. All you get for stealing someone else's stuff is a ban from here
And a DCMA
dull moon
since you mentioned CUP, we have filled up the storage of new modeled content (uniforms, weapons, items) for the upcoming CUPdate to do almost every faction. look at CFP what they are doing with it. so it should be almost a nobrainer to create new factions out of it. sure, vehicles are lacking, but infantry would be a start
gentle isle
Nah. He mentioned CUP not me. lol
paper prawn
CFP is a perfect example of how to do things the right way @dull moon (only pinged you so he did not think that I was talking to him, which I sort of was)
As are, to be balanced, the many shitty RHS retexture mods 😉
gentle isle
CFP?
paper prawn
Community Factions Project... something like 30 factions all really well retextured from CUP assets, and requiring CUP mods for the mod
dull moon
this is what i understand as "the nature of modding"
we create a basement and others can build up on it. not ripping it apart, cherry picking stuff, repacking and retexturing it and then upload it as their own
gentle isle
From what I've seen so far CFP just does modern factions.
dull moon
current day, yes
but as i said, we have the amount of content by now do create all sorts of factions and eras
from 80s up to late 90s, early 2000s. even current day factions, see bundeswehr for example. got fully refurbished to what it looks today
gtg, need to get up in 4h...
cya
hot cedar
In all honesty, I never wanted credit for anything at all. All I really wanted was just to play it myself, but Its too much of a pain to get everything sorted. I'm better off just working on Doom mods
paper prawn
I've been running ARMA 3 servers since I finally moved from ARMA 2 in 2015. As a server owner and developer I have come to rely on the modding community to allow me to make servers the way I want them using their mods. I appreciate the flexibility and choice and have also seen many mods that I really want to use be unavailable cause people stole their shit (pardon my language). They decided it wasn't worth their unpaid time to bother when people just stole what they produced and, in some cases made good money from that theft. And now, I cannot use those mods cause the people who caused them to quit the community have no bloody clue how to update the mod when a new ARMA update comes out. Thank God for the teams that do continue and have to waste time taking legal actions against thieves. Thank God for the fact that they continue to produce content that makes this game so much better, cause many of them don't. And that diminishes our community and the cause of that are people who say "well, we're not stealing anything, we give credit..." If the mods will forgive me... Fuck everyone who thinks that way! You are not welcome in the ARMA community and all you do is harm it!
gentle isle
That what happened to East vs. West?
paper prawn
Is this the Paul Allen that was on the CUP discord looking for help ripping the models from PedagneMod this evening?
hot cedar
I just wanted to play it for myself really, but it would be too much effort for just myself and I don't want to steal credit from others in putting it up either.
paper prawn
🤦
gentle isle
It sucks man, but what are you gonna do? shrugs
paper prawn
What sucks is people do not respects other people's IP rights... pretty much enshrined in Western legal systems, no excuse elsewhere... without contract law there is no rule of law
gentle isle
Yeah. Though just saying "Screw you guys, I'm going home" doesn't hurt the thieves who just want the credit (or in some cases even make money from). They'll just find something else to rip off. All the people who leave do is just hurt themselves and the modding community.
hot cedar
Sounds like the old phrase, "Cutting off your nose to spite your face".
hot cedar
Yeah. I work on Doom mods. I know all about it. But getting pissed and quiting doesn't hurt thieves in anyway.
Personally I view porting as a gray area, only as long as credit is given to the original team for all the original work.
paper prawn
And you are the person who asked on CUP's discord this evening about how to open binarized p3ds from the Pedagne Mod (ofc that was not how you asked how to do that, you asked "How do I open ARMA 2 models in ARMA 3... but then...). When asked which mod, you could not remember. When asked who gave you permission you gave the name of the guy who legally ported the mod to ARMA 3 not the guy who did the ARMA 2 mod... despite the fact that you said that you were porting an ARMA 2 mod with permission. So... I mean really...
gentle isle
Eh. Give the guy a break. Sounds like he just really wanted to play something in ARMA 3 and it sounds like nothings come of it.
paper prawn
What? He was asking the CUP community how to steal someone else's IP... How on earth is that a situation where I or anyone would "Give the guy a break"... no one would put the subsequent effort into porting ARMA 2 assets into ARMA 3 because "really wanted to play something in ARMA 3". I mean LOL
Especially when there is an ARMA 3 port (legally done)... but it missed stuff
gentle isle
Maybe he underestimated and decided that it wasn't worth the effort if everyone was just gonna get pissed off.
paper prawn
Yeah... right... Double positives can be negative... who'd have known
hot cedar
My thought was give original credit to everyone who made it originally.
gentle isle
You've probably seen enough of it to the point you're cynical of everything. I get it though.
paper prawn
My thought was give original credit to everyone who made it originally. It.Does.Not.Work.That.Way! I stole your TV... I'll invite everyone around to watch the game... but I will make sure to let them know it was your TV. All cool then?
gentle isle
I think the point was that it sounds more like naivety rather than malice.
paper prawn
So it is okay in the Doom community to steal other people's IP...? Good to know
gentle isle
From what I've seen, everybody uses elements of other works. Comes from being around for 27 years. Though there's no issues of porting there either.
hot cedar
That's pretty much it. All you need to do is give the proper credit and you're good.
paper prawn
It should be noted that acting on that impulse can get you banned from this discord and the forums. So time to understand the rules of this community that was almost destroyed by that attitude
hot cedar
Noted.
stoic beacon
First of all, this types of discussion should probably be in #other_ip_topics.
And @hot cedar you cannot steal anything and just give credit.
Not even in the doom community, even if it is tolerated there.
You all have to follow the law, which clearly defines theft / copyright infringements.
scarlet patrol
could a military company have any right on weapon and vehicle mods that represent their product?
if for example I create an abrahams mod
but its purposely depicted as a badly working vehicle
would general dynamics have the rights to have it taken down
faint nacelle
possibly if you use trademarked names
some companies have also protected the shape/look of a vehicle
tulip nexus
There was something where Nexter gave C&D notice to Qinetix because of the Titus MRAP he was making was published as "Tatra Titus" on the workshop. IIRC he just removed all references to Tatra and Nexter from the workshop page and logos from the textures
faint nacelle
there is probably a reason why Arma names are not real world names
scarlet patrol
yeah I wouldnt make my weapon be represented by spars
paper prawn
Also depends on the rep of the company and how stuff is portrayed
The game company that is. But no one other than mod devs risk using the Glock name now
Even SCUM calls it the Block despite real world names on all other weapons
hot cedar
I miss the days back in the 1990s and 2000s when you could use the real names of guns and the companies and nobody cared because it was before they started going after that proverbial fat cash.
Like Fallout using Colt, Winchester, H&K, Yes, even Glock.
rustic copper
Well most companies ask for permission to 1) use an in-game version of the real item and 2) ask permission to use the real name in their game. If they don't get the permissions, they won't add the item to the game.
Same applies to modding; if you want to use someone else's work, you ask for permission before releasing it. If you don't get permission, you don't use it.
However, if someone (including BI material) gives permissions through licences or a written statement saying it's OK to use the materials (and it should be clear what and how!), then you can use it without any problems.
paper prawn
EA iirc pretty much screwed the situation with Glock... Glock would let people use afaik but companies are not going to take the chance
rustic copper
Although copyright (text, code, video, audio, etc), trademark (names and logos) and patents (ideas and implementations) are 3 different things which fall under IP.
Within the Arma community it's 99% copyright issues, where people take code/textures/models from other people. Trademarks are present, but a light-grey area. Just look at the item renames by ACE, where vanilla items are renamed to their real-life counterparts (even when BI doesn't have the permissions for it).
And patents are almost impossible... or not really an issue, as long as it doesn't cause a copyright infringement.
hot cedar
@paper prawn How did EA screw the pooch with Glock? They use it in an unflattering way?
chilly silo
The change in IP/Trademark usage came about the same time Manufacturers realised they could make money by licensing their Products for use in Videogames and media.
hot cedar
@chilly silo That's why I miss the old days of around Fallout 1 & 2 when they didn't realize that.
latent fjord
Good day, I have a question regarding the rights to created mods. I have a reason Terrain created with config etc later have helped me with mapping, now my question I have nothing more to do with the mappers but would like to publish the map, one of the mapper came to me now I would be the copyright injured but with me as a creator. would be nice if someone could help me here because I did not really was found this.
stoic beacon
He contributed, so it includes his ip meaning you can't publish it without his consent.
This belongs to #other_ip_topics btw🙃
latent fjord
Ups thx :)
flint topaz
If a mod is posted to armaholic under the following
This mod is released under:
Creative Commons Licence
Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
NonCommercial — You may not use the material for commercial purposes.
NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you may not distribute the modified material.```
is upload to workshop permitted by a third party? Here is the link <http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26852>
lone basin
Not by Steam's EULA iirc
flint topaz
sadness
soft egret
Uploading to workshop breaks the commercial clause.
And if you wanted to you'd have to be a contributor to the mod. But you cannot contribute as the NoDerivatives forbids that
stark loom
Just a question, how does uploading to workshop break the commercial clause? Do people get money from the workshop? @soft egret
soft egret
Steam Subscriber Agreement says you grant valve right to use your content to promote themselves and to commercially use your content
scarlet patrol
does this mean valve could hypotetically sell my mods?
fallen wagon
Not if they are created with BI tools iirc.
soft egret
no
well not "sell" directly
When you upload your content to Steam to make it available to other users and/or to Valve, you grant Valve and its affiliates the worldwide, non-exclusive right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, transcode, translate, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and publicly perform, your User Generated Content, and derivative works of your User Generated Content, for the purpose of the operation, distribution, incorporation as part of and promotion of the Steam service, Steam games or other Steam offerings, including Subscriptions.
stark loom
Doesn't non commerical mean as long as you are not trying to make money off of it, you are okay?
Steam is also not really trying to make money off of it. It is not intended for profit.
I mean if the mod would be payed then it would violate it ofc.
soft egret
they currently don't. But you have to give steam the permission to.
Using something to promote your commercial platform, or include it ("incorporation as part of") in your commercial service, that's commercial use.
And you can't give someone permission for something you can't even do yourself
stark loom
Okay, so Steam wants to promote their platform with the mods that are uploaded and you are not allowed to promote a commercial platform like Steam.
faint nacelle
no you as non author cant give steam permission to do so
only the owner/maker/author(s) can do that
you have been given right to just use the stuff someone else made
nothing more
stark loom
Yes, so what I said "you are not allowed to promote a commercial platform"
faint nacelle
I dont perhaps understand your wording the way you mean it
fossil basalt
But as long as we come to the same conclusion it is all good. But you haven't!
"you are not allowed to promote a commercial platform" Is not the same conclusion.
To use a car as an example:
You can loan your car to someone, you can even rent it to them. Better yet, you can even rent it to them and let them sub-lease it to others, but ONLY IF YOU OWN IT OUTRIGHT.
With regards to the case of IP rights, you can do similar if you ARE THE IP RIGHTS HOLDER or have been given such rights by the IP rights holder (commonly by adding as a co-creator/Developer).
Third parties ARE NOT IP Rights holders and more often than not, have not been granted those rights necessary by the IP Rights holder. Thus, they don't have the legal authority to grant Steam/Valve the permission required when uploading to the workshop.
Steam Subscriber Agreement Section 6 D (Representations and Warranties). https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/#6
stark loom
@fossil basalt you are not allowed to promote a commercial platform, so you can't give steam the right to promote their platform.
fossil basalt
You're making no sense.
rustic copper
although it's interesting that the Tools License actually forbids us to upload content (made with the tools provided by BI)...
Commercially exploit or allow a 3rd party commercially exploit content you created using the Program, including but not limited to use by military organizations for computer aided training or commercially released content;
https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/bohemia-interactives-tools-end-user-license (Section 3.2.4)
When you upload your content to Steam to make it available to other users and/or to Valve, you grant Valve and its affiliates the worldwide, non-exclusive right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, transcode, translate, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and publicly perform, your User Generated Content, and derivative works of your User Generated Content, for the purpose of the operation, distribution, incorporation as part of and promotion of the Steam service, Steam games or other Steam offerings, including Subscriptions. This license is granted to Valve as the content is uploaded on Steam for the entire duration of the intellectual property rights.
https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement (Section 6.A par. 2)
chilly silo
And thats the most pedantic and mis-informed take on that licence possible.
Assuming you aren't just trolling, which you probably are but hey I have a spare 5 mins. And I wouldnt want someone attempting to use this as a way to undermine mine or anyone else's IP I'll explain.
- The BI Tools licence is between You and BI. Not YOU and STEAM
- When YOU upload to STEAM you recieve no commercial benefit. Nor are YOU entitled to any under the current terms.
- For the purposes of publishing YOUR content to Steam - the distributor of ArmA3 - you are dealing with an authorised partner of Bohemia Interactive. Which means both in implication and practicality it is an authorised interaction as BI has approved the creation and maintenance of the Steam Workshop section for ArmA3 Community content.
- The commercial benefit is recieved ultimately by Valve and Bohemia Interactive - Not by you - in terms of promotion and increased sales inspired by available content. Something the Steam agreement makes clear.
All of the above should make it clear that your - and lets be real here - transparent attempt at Trolling really is just a wet, uniformed attempt at getting a rise out of the moderators. Hope that clears things up for you.
Toodles.
fallen wagon
The game is sold on steam and the tools provided through steam. I think that there just might already be a commercial agreement in place with steam.
chilly silo
See point #3
fallen wagon
Mhm, that's just my summary/take.
Further conversation would be better suited for #other_ip_topics though.
chilly silo
I dont see the need to continue it and the discussion does relate to BI Tools and content.
soft egret
Just as with CDLC and all monetization approved servers. They get specific exemption to the "no commerical use" clause. I'm very sure that BI "gave" the same to Steam.
Thus, the answer is "no" it doesn't forbid us uploading.
Though that only applies to either BI content, or BI Tools as it's the connection between author->user (BI, Steam). Not to anything else that is not made by BI but uses a "similar" license.
Any mod author mooost likely didn't give steam a general permission to let anyone upload his stuff and let steam use it commercially
fallen wagon
I think by allowing a workshop on steam, they have to have. Otherwise there would be no workshop support.
carmine folio
Why am I getting notifications for each post?
soft egret
Check your notification settings?
carmine folio
Somehow I was subscribed to it, what the???
lofty steeple
what's the opinions on ANZACSAS steve seemingly successful DMCA against Jove Chiere South Asia terrain? https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/225284-take-on-helicopters-terrains/
soft egret
successful? Oh good to know. Thanks.
I told him he shall DMCA it if really his content is in there against his will
chilly silo
I dont really know the background, but wasnt the TOKH maps released under a Share alike licence?
So was the new version identical to his or based off of his previous release?
soft egret
The problem was Jove having taken work from Steve that was done on top of the ToH Data package without asking and without permission and then published that on the workshop
chilly silo
ok
soft egret
Atleast according to Steve. I told him to DMCA it if that's the case. The item now being gone sounds like that DMCA was valid then
chilly silo
Ok but I was under the impression the share alike allowed for modifed releases and had to be released under the same licence. i mean - and im not trying to be perverse here- any release of ArmA3/TOKH content comes under share alike. https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/take-on-license-share-alike So Steve can't really claim the island and has to allow 'his' version to be modified and shared as per the terms of the original license.
So I'm curious as to the reason a DMCA claim was upheld.
Don't get me wrong - its just good manners to ask first. But The license terms do seem to allow for different versions based off the back of other's work. with suitable attribution etc
soft egret
Non commercial
He could poke on that if he wanted to. Original data package may allow commercial use by steam, his code might not. The license certainly forbids it.
Attribution
Afaik Steve didn't get any attribution for his work on the derivative.
chilly silo
Ok again pardon my ignorance but what code did he include on his release? And my understanding is that if its included in the -SA license package its subject to those terms. Do you have a link to Steve's original package?
I understand the lack of attribution. But I'm genuinely curious now.
nvm. found it. hes acknowledged the share alike - but I'm not sure he can legally stop anyone adapting/modifying under the orginal BI terms.
...as long as they provide attribution.
I'd be curious to hear from BI what the intent of the Share Alike license really was in this scenario.
soft egret
Not aware of what code we're talking about
Steve's original thing wasn't published afaik. or was it? I didn't have the time to look deeply into what he wanted
chilly silo
And to be clear im interested in the application of the licences. I'm not interested in getting between either side of this argument. Some friends and I were looking at using some of the other terrain as a basis for another project but we rejected it as we were advised that we would NOT have to right to assert control over content derived from Share Alike sources. Unless of course were split the APL-SA content apart from out own content. Which in the case of terrains we didn't think was practical. If we can in fact assert new conditions to an APL-SA licences then our project might still have some life.
undone pier
@soft egret Jove did not
a simple hashcheck of pbos and diffs of the configs clearly shows that
anyhow Jove has made a counter DMCA claim and the idiot has to go court if he wants to continue spreading his lies
as for -SA. BI stated you should give the source on request, but yeah its "should". so basically the SA is only "recommended"
hot cedar
Sounds more like Steve is talking out his ass.
And from what I've read it sounds like he's made enemies of a number of people.
That it seems Steve has a habit of being economical with the truth.
surreal raptor
Not exactly sure if this is an IP rights violation, but a server that's illegally monetizing, using plenty of stolen content, ignoring DMCA's, is now banning players that play on competing servers and giving streamers money and in-game admin panel if they stop playing on competing servers. Isn't that against some anti trust laws or something? Anything that could be done about that?
rapid cypress
Is the server name anzus by any chance 
? @surreal raptor
surreal raptor
What a guess! You must be wizard 
rapid cypress
Hehehe I wish, but yeah Anzus has been discussed in this server a few times
surreal raptor
I know, but now they have started banning people for playing other servers. Isn't that shit illegal or something?
fallen wagon
Not illegal. Stupid though. The copyright related stuff is.
mystic surge
They probably dont have much of a player base after pulling stuff like that
fallen wagon
Unfortunately they still do.
surreal raptor
3rd most popular server in arma btw
fallen wagon
Despite it's creator having bans 
rapid cypress
that emote is adorable @fallen wagon
fallen wagon
Yeah the bug-cat is top-notch.
rapid cypress
stark loom
So why is that server still up and kicking?
manic narwhal
It has the most stolen content, and is the least broken, at least from what i can tell.
river spear
From a legal standpoint I don't expect Bohemia to do much, but it's their game, I still think they could built anti-measures into their executables to stop certain servers from running if they are clearly in breach with everything the community stands for
fallen wagon
Pretty sure they have Battleye again, but it was off for a bit. 
rapid cypress
Ye they have it again last I heard @fallen wagon
fallen wagon
Last time I dealt with them that's what I was told by their staff and some ex-players
fossil basalt
Profanity removed
ebon tusk
Yeah they have battleye my friend who used to have a community also had anzus take their IP. They couldnt even file dmca because dmca said they dont deal with people outside the US so in all essense hes pretty much un-touchable unless bohemia decides to do something
soft egret
because dmca said they dont deal with people outside the US
what? thats nonsense
their servers are american afaik
fallen wagon
OVH Canada.
midnight crystal
do you know which province? If Québec they might be breaking consumer laws
fallen wagon
OVH only has Beauharnois, Québec if I'm not mistaken.
midnight crystal
honestly even if its another province canadian copyright/consumer laws are pretty solid
fallen wagon
Yes, but they aren't a DMCA. That being said, most convert DMCA to local versions (the notice of our copyright act for example).
@ebon tusk See: https://ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca02920.html
ebon tusk
Ive also had my friend show me recordings of his twitch where he unbans people for subs and ive seen him on stream say that “bohemia lets me sell cars and debinarize anything” not to mention that he openly tells his devs to take building “x” and remodel it to look different. Guess BOhemia gave up dealing that that drama 😂
soft egret
nah they are still on it
if you have evidence just foward it, it'll be added to the portfolio
broken hornet
I'm guessing more evidence isn't really needed, just action at the BI level is slow due to legal reasons?
midnight crystal
well the more you have evidence, the more you are likely to win, so even if your chances are at 90% doesn't hurt to crank them up to 91%
ebon tusk
well i mean .. i did submit my evidence to bi but i kinda gave up after like my 30th email 😄
fossil basalt
Believe me, the pile of evidence gets larger with each passing day
rapid cypress
and they still barely do anything
ebon tusk
what about his twitch? charging money and spawning stuff and featuring stolen ip via live stream would be considered agianst twitch tos? right?
dull moon
If content of yours is illegaly used on a stream, you can try to strike it
ebon tusk
ah ohokay ... i wonder why people dont do that to his channel. thats mainly how he monetizes without doing it directly money for items ... instead its subs for items
🤷
fossil basalt
Laziness?
surreal raptor
Bohemia has just decided to take a idgaf stance, i don't know why. The creator community is what's kept their games alive for years and years. Legit what other game (other than OA and CSS) from 2009 still has players? And A3 which is from 2012, is still constantly cracking top. 20 most played games on steam, mostly because of the creators who keep it alive, so why go against them?
soft egret
I don't think they are on a "idgaf stance"
I'm sure they are doing something but they just don't communicate about it
fossil basalt
But its such a poor job that it looks like they're saying IDGAF
dull moon
i had a case of a repeat offender for reuploading on the workshop, so i got in contact with BI. what i got in return was not a IDGAF stance, more like a "not our job" thing...
the disappointment was the same tho
fossil basalt
Which is essentially the same thing
surreal raptor
But we were saying they're doing something in the background about 3-4 months ago, and still nothing has happened. I understand legal processes might be slow, but still, the time it has taken, i'd assume at least something would've happened.
fossil basalt
I'd have thought the same thing, but in the Czech Republic the legal departments appararently move slowly
soft egret
maybe they are just trying to make us wait, till they don't continue the monetization approval stuff in january, and THEN say "idgaf we don't do this anymore"
dull moon
don't continue the monetization approval stuff
had a good laugh right there
surreal raptor
They're discontinuing monetization in january?
soft egret
Its always limited to one year runtime
and re-evaluated whether they continue every year
dull moon
... and will be continued without changes
soft egret
maybe, probably, maybe not
dull moon
it takes more effort to change the monetization program to a more suiting way for admins AND modders (monitoring, research, ect), than simply clicking the "fuck it, keep it going as it is" button
soft egret
I didn't say change
I said "stop giving approval and stop having to deal with violators"
fossil basalt
I think it should be stopped all together (monetisation)
ebon tusk
then youll just have more servers illegally monetizing ppls content
see how anzus is still alive , id say they dont protect content creators enough as is
fossil basalt
Those are dealt with more easily
dull moon
and what's the difference between on going for them now vs if monetization is fully illegal? we are on our own both ways
fossil basalt
When something is completely prohibited, it is much easier to play "whack a mole"
carmine folio
I really think the open monetisation needs to stop. BI has shown it isn't in any way intending to police it so it has just become an open way for people to profit from the modders who enable this game to thrive.
fossil basalt
I fully agree
ebon tusk
plus where there money invovled theres f ton of drama that follows
carmine folio
My mod is stolen 2x as much as its used legitimately on the workshop. It isn't worth my time to chase them all down, the last thing I want to do is raised 7000 DMCAs but this situation is obviously unreasonable.
If I was to chase them down all I would find is the same people and groups that have been reported for literally years.
ebon tusk
cant even chase ppl tbh ... because unless they upload to workshop then ull need to pay up 200$ for every dmca (unless you do it urself). IMO if it was up to me i would say make all servers host their modpacks ONLY on the workshop if they want to be able to have battleye on their server. That way would be much easier to police stolen content and takedown the thieves.
fossil basalt
For the love of all thats good in the world, please stop spreading that falsehood!!
soft egret
you seem to know nothing about what a DMCA is 🤔
ebon tusk
i never said i know anything about it
fossil basalt
So, quit promoting false information
ebon tusk
what information? im sharing an opinion of what id do
fossil basalt
I tell you what, the next time you post a falsehood regarding DMCA here, you will be removed for 30 days, got it?
dull moon
a DMCA is always free
everyone (who is right) can file one. the following process (court) is ofc not free
@ebon tusk
soft egret
but if you do a rightful DMCA, you'll win the court process and can most likely make the looser pay for it. so it's free afterwards
dull moon
well, depends on the country... but mostly you'Re right
soft egret
and you really only go to court if the other side files a illegal counter claim (assuming your DMCA was correct in the first place)
Or can server hosters say "you go to court or I don't do anything for ya" ?
Doesn't sound right to me
fossil basalt
It doesnt
ebon tusk
you're gonna ban me for 30days for what exactly? did i ever say how it is ? no . i said WHAT I WOULD DO. furthermore . instead of issuing threats of banning someone simply because you believe they are wrong, how about you correct them instead and tell them how its really done.
dont know how this- is falsehood whatsoever @fossil basalt https://gyazo.com/21355eb63b941b8872ad47b64d715e25
fossil basalt
Because someone is taking you for an idiot, does not make it legit
Sort of like "single Russian ladies in your area". If you fall for it, you deserve it.
As has been explained to you a few times by other moderators
ebon tusk
what r u on about? this is litterly the dmca website 🤔 https://gyazo.com/64b5fb088991e2dd56d40bd899e66390 . the way i see it is that there is a "chance" that if it goes to court you can get ur money back in the event that you win. but issueing a takedown as ive said , its right there on dmcas website.
wild stone
@ebon tusk i suggest you heed the advice of moderators in this channel. Otherwise you will be on vacation.
fossil basalt
DMCA is a legal construct. It allows the original creators an opportunity to enforce ownership over false claimants. You have been going to an "alternate site" for those who have no clue.
We are trying to help you, but you keep digging yourself a very deep hole
carmine folio
Ooo i love coming here to read the drama
ebon tusk
by asking questions? by trying to figure it out? ... please tell me where in the rules (that i have read) does it say that i cannot ask questions on stuff i do not understand ? yes i went to their site. please induldge me. how would i dmca a google drive a different way besides doing it through the site? how would i take down a A3 repo then? if me asking questions is digging a hole .... then consider me buried. im done with this subject .
fossil basalt
Asking is fine, Telling us that B.S. is truth is something else entirely
carmine folio
You did try telling us B.S.(viking)
fossil basalt
"dont know how this- is falsehood whatsoever @fossil basalt https://gyazo.com/21355eb63b941b8872ad47b64d715e25"
Because you're gone to a scam website and are making things worse for everyone else
carmine folio
"Full service takedown"
fossil basalt
As has been stated before.. As the IP rights holder, all you need to do is counter the false claim to Steam/Valve with enough proof to convince them that your claim is valid. That is LITERALLY IT!
ebon tusk
and ive done that
carmine folio
He probably has all sort of viruses and stuff if he promotes
scam sites
fossil basalt
So now you wait until Steam asks for more info
ebon tusk
they didnt tho
carmine folio
Maybe it's because you went to a fake steam site
fossil basalt
So, you email them back and follow up
ebon tusk
1 sec ill show u the support response
carmine folio
Hes gonna show us www.steann.com
fossil basalt
Wouldnt surprise me at this point
ebon tusk
the email litterly says how to counter claim but not where to actully submit the counter
fossil basalt
OF f'n course! You've gone to a "pay for play website" are you that much of a sucker that you've managed to let yourself be scammed?
ebon tusk
im talking about steams reply !
fossil basalt
I'm referring to DMCA.com
You email STEAM back and give them the facts. If youre faking it, you can expect a lengthy legal battle
ebon tusk
litterly no info on how to actully submit the counter https://gyazo.com/391dc25588e126fada1fee2f2e94d4c9
by how i actully mean as in where to actully send it
fossil basalt
As indicated by that email, you should have received "instructions on how to contest this ban". If you have not, contact them again.
manic narwhal
🍿
soft egret
this is litterly the dmca website
no its not. It's the site of a legal company who calls themselves "DMCA"
litterly no info on how to actully submit the counter
You got a email from "dmca@valvesoftware.com"
now I give you the chance to guess ONCE, which email address at valve might be responsible for DMCA related stuff...
Hint: It's a VERY easy question. The answer is right infront of you.
chilly silo
Thanks to all involved here. I was having a pretty lousy day and this just made me laugh so hard. great comedy value.
If you pay anyone to do anything on your behalf make sure it really is a lawyer. DMCA.com is a scam, as are any other service that claim to be able to protect your IP automatically.
As Dedmen and FM have repeatedly said, do it yourself. Follow the instructions on the Steam website or the site your content is being illegally hosted on. If you dont know how to do that do a Whois lookup and find the host and email them. They are legally obliged to explain their DMCA procedure to you.
paper prawn
Someone's doing Chernarus for Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1875357394&searchtext=
Hopefully it is not a BI IP violation tbh
paper prawn
I hope not... It's not like they are building out the towns and stuff... just modelling a rough approximation. That said, in game I have plans to build out a Chernogorsk and expand from there... fun game
fallen wagon
What is that person though: Jeroma Aliotta
That's who apparently provided the photo.
So maybe this person, but the spelling doesn't match: https://www.dvidshub.net/portfolio/1117204/jerome-aliotta
fossil basalt
Most like is the same individual. Either way, its definitely worthy of a report (not only to BI, but to BIS) and hopefully some legal action from RHS
carmine folio
Why would it need to be reported to BiS?
brisk ember
RHS' tweet got deleted? 🤔
fossil basalt
Why would it need to be reported to BiS? 1. for exposure 2. Utilising Arma 3 commercially 3. License violations (if proven correct)
carmine folio
Yeah but BiS isn't related to Arma right?
echo orchid
@brisk ember a single person was in the know, it wasn’t used commercially nor for military training
so yes
brisk ember
alright (:
echo orchid
as far as rhs is concerned, our eula was respected.
fossil basalt
Very well.
paper prawn
Also you can use RHS for non-commercial military training so long as Bohemia allows the military in question to use ARMA 3 for it...
fossil basalt
Which it doesn't (from what I've been told)
Hence one of the primary reasons VBS was created
I've spoken to BI, its going to be looked into.
paper prawn
Ah, RHS's license only prohibits training on VBS or systems derived from it... not ARMA 2 or 3 🙂 This add-on is provided for Arma 2: Combined Operations or Arma 3 and is not to be used with VBS or any of its derivatives built for the purpose of military training.
paper prawn
Ah, but this use is non-commercial... sort of...
fossil basalt
No, its being used by the military, which constitutes commercial use.
Either way, BI are looking into it.
paper prawn
Really? I would not have assumed that. Good to know. Thanks FM
keen trout
👍
echo orchid
@paper prawn our license will be changed soonish to be clear what is or not allowed
paper prawn
NP PuFu... I was surprised that it was so loose in that respect.
echo orchid
because at the time of the writing
there were no official tools besides vbs
used for military training
looking over certain pics
a3 was clearly used as a training tool
opposed to what i was told earlier on
dull moon
fallujah... again
faint nacelle
its good map 😄
paper prawn
It is a very good map, apart from the lack of a mosque
fossil basalt
was probably bombed...
paper prawn
Always found that odd. I added it for the ALiVE server I ran
rapid cypress
Ya, thats what VBS is for @quasi flame
Just because its the Army doesnt mean they're above adhering to the Arma 3 EULA
faint nacelle
it is
there are rules that govern the whole world that we all follow so that the world does not fall into total anarchy
fossil basalt
@quasi flame You will find that we have #rules too. Profanity removed.
Hate to hear that people dont bother to read and abide by our rules too.
It's thinking like that which might explain why you were in the Army. Even crayon eaters understand that its the DoD / Branch, not the individual who's liable in these instances.
Never made Chief, I was up for it once, but not selected. Had something to do with a "fighting" NJP.
My kids think I'm cool.
Reading difficult for you? Its the part about "offensive"
This isn't the Army's Discord. This is Bohemia's Discord and it has rules. Please follow them.
bitter sierra
lol
fossil basalt
Hey Nou, long time no see
bitter sierra
figured this channel was worth a gander today
fossil basalt
you saw the pics I take it?
bitter sierra
I did.
fossil basalt
It does make for some interesting reading.
carmine folio
The Marines wouldn't let this happen.....
dull moon
they also eat crayons, i wouldn't trust them that much
what? proud of a cheap ass army that rather uses a game and free mods than VBS they already paid for...?
🤔
if you don't understand you should not think about it any longer
bitter sierra
FYI BIS lost the STE contract around this time last year.
So keep that in mind when talking about things here.
dull moon
ok, thx for the headsup
cool
no, not really since they used it also
¯_(ツ)_/¯
if you think so
sure brah
not up to me
bitter sierra
lul ima make lunch, this convo is weird
last gorge
sigh, in the screen shot. CBA, ACE, RHS, CUP Terrains Core(most likely), and Fallujah
dull moon
what's up for lunch?
bitter sierra
quesadillas
fossil basalt
I prefer breakfast burritos
bitter sierra
sigh, in the screen shot. CBA, ACE, RHS, CUP Terrains Core(most likely), and Fallujah
ACRE2 too! ;D
dull moon
quesadillas, nice. i think i'll get my local version
bitter sierra
haha
dull moon
didn't know what to cook, so thanks for the idea 😉
we call them pfannenkuchen
(no, not the american pancakes)
dull moon
the "kuchen" get cooked in the "pfanne" 😉
fossil basalt
See, I know my Fritzl's from my schnitzel's 🌭
dull moon
i'm not austrian, remember 😄
fossil basalt
And on that bombshell, I'm off. Work tomorrow. o7
Close enough 😂
dull moon
o7
brisk ember
so, 2/4ID (or the company that is providing the setup) did a major oopsie?
carmine folio
I wouldn't say "major oopsie" implying they didn't know what they were doing
But seems they be using ARMA instead of VBS which is catching some eyes
brisk ember
How did they not know what they were doing...
paper prawn
Was a DoD thing... every Defense Dept in every country is just as clueless
ebon tusk
wait so its a voilation for the military to use a military simulator? 🤔
midnight crystal
well yes, since they don't own the rights to the product
ebon sand
commercially, yes
ebon tusk
but ..... Commercial Use means selling, licensing, leasing or otherwise making patents available to a third party for a price, fee, royalty, commission ...... i dont see defending our freedom and country falling under those terms
oh and bohemia cant even keep anzus undercontrol with their ip violations... i wanna see them try with the US Military 😂
mystic surge
david vs goliath
ebon sand
using it as a testbed for research of a potential future product could very much fall under the umbrella of commercial use...
i wanna see them try with the US MilitaryThey already have... How do you think VBS came into existence? 😉
this is pretty much an exact repeat of DARWARS Ambush!...
mystic surge
well what your saying is that BI challenged the us military, they lost, so they made VBS for the military bc they lost?? Probably just mis worded it But ya know what, im not gonna go there. But the part about being a testbed is correct in my opinion
ebon tusk
ok. then tell me this. cant they say the same? cant they hold BI viable for all these mods that feature US military insignias, ranks, vehicles .etc ?
ebon sand
government works are public domain
ebon tusk
because sure its just a mod but ultimately , wouldnt bohemia be held responsible since it is their platform the mod is featured in?
ebon sand
some companies like AM General could sue because they hold a trade dress over things like the "HMMWV likeness," but they'd have to prove that a free mod profited financially or hurt their product image...
ebon tusk
i mean it a mod featured in a game thats for sale.
the mod is free but not the game needed to use the mod
ebon sand
not sure to be honest... it's a bit like holding gun manufacturers liable for the manner in which their products are used...
hypothetically, should the victim of an accident caused by a drunk driver be allowed to sue a car manufacturer since they didn't do everything within their power to prevent a drunk from driving by not installing an ignition interlock as a standard feature?
ebon tusk
i just dont see how this can be an issue for the us military. men and women give their lives to defend our nation and in return a video game has a problem with those same men and women using their game for training . whata great way to show appreciation.
ive seen that happen alot actully
ebon sand
should BI be held liable for the mods created for their game because they didn't disable the ability for users to mod it?
ebon tusk
they should be regulating it and monitoring it 🤷
its not like this game is "out of this world" popular ... because its not.
cant that be said about servers tho as well? taking a mod and using it without permission, server owners can just say "oh i didnt know" and that would make it okay ?
ebon sand
It's an issue for them because if it's for commercial use, it's directly against the license agreement of the software they're using, both for the game and the mods... If they want to go the commercial route, there's a product with a license that exists for that already (VBS). Games and mods cost time, energy, and money to make. 'MURICA and "muh freedom," is no excuse for a country with a multibillion dollar defense budget to cheap out and break those EULAs, opening themselves up to potential litigation lmao. By your logic, why should any defense contractor even sell anything to the military? It should just be given out of respect for the brave men and women defending their country... (Lets just ignore the fact that some of the people who worked on the game or those mods might not be from the US, or even from a country allied to it lol)
ebon tusk
im going to be removing myself from this convo now before i say something ill regret . g'night.
bitter sierra
lol @ everything
It's an issue for them because if it's for commercial use, it's directly against the license agreement of the software they're using, both for the game and the mods...
Please do not assume that it is violating all mod licenses.
Nothing in the ACE or ACRE licenses prevents this.
ebon sand
Edit: "and potentially, some mods" Happy? 🙄
bitter sierra
Yes, just being clear that some mods are totally fine with this.
I personally encourage it.
Saves tax payer dollars.
ebon sand
I mean, as someone who also had a small part of their mod work shown in the pictures from the article, I personally don't take a huge issue with it. It's pretty cool actually... I just acknowledge that not every mod maker is going to be ok with it, and at best, the Army is in a pretty gray area, legally.
fossil basalt
The relevant parties have been informed. No need to continue "beating a dead horse".
echo orchid
@ebon tusk who let you out man?
men and women give their lives to defend our nation and in return a video game has a problem with those same men and women using their game for training . whata great way to show appreciation.
you know there are other countries besides trump's, right?
not my nation, not my taxes, not my military. the non-commercial clause stands for everyone, no exceptions
carmine folio
Bit of an odd way to say besides the US
bitter sierra
It's be hard though, I mean legally the US is only going to consider US law, and use by the military is in a weird zone as its not considered legally a business or commercial entity in the US.
So in some ways it doesn't matter that there are countries other than Trump's (even though I find that description of the US highly disrespectful as Trump is a traitor to his country).
carmine folio
And US law you are able to enforce EULAs and DMCAs too Nou...
And Trump is far from a traitor
bitter sierra
And US law you are able to enforce EULAs and DMCAs too Nou...
I literally just said that, and that unless the EULA says no military use then TFB because legally the US military is not a commercial entity.
river spear
@bitter sierra but doesn't the US army accept the terms and conditions the product comes with?
Oh, now I echoed a bit :P
bitter sierra
Also the US government is essentially the closest thing to a god, so even then they could, if they wanted to, just dismiss the case as in the interest of national security.
Not saying they would.
But they easily could.
Also not sure what DMCAs have to do with anything. They aren't violating their copyright.
And Trump is a traitor. We'll see where your words stand when he refuses to return from Moscow when he realizes the jig is up.
But I digress.
carmine folio
Then what you said I mean legally the US is only going to consider US law, is just blubber
bitter sierra
I am not sure how you are confused.
"In a unanimous opinion, the Supreme Court reversed the ruling of the Second Circuit, finding that respectful consideration must be granted to a foreign government's statements, but not conclusive effect."
"A federal court determining foreign law pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 44.1 should accord respectful consideration to a foreign government’s submission, but the court is not bound to accord conclusive effect to the foreign government’s statements."
additionally it gets even more confusing when the respondent is the US Government
heavy moon
I'd imagine the sub-contractor who provided the training/concept/whatever would be the one liable in this instance and not the DoD.
that's wholly reliant on being able to extract that information from them though, I'd imagine it'd get buried in red-tape never to be seen again.
paper prawn
the sub-contractor who provided the training/concept/whatever I think the DoD were the sub-contractor. The department working on Future Vehicle Concepts
The Next Generation Combat Vehicle Cross-Functional Team
bitter sierra
the DoD can't be a sub-contractor.
paper prawn
Well, yeah. Was just responding to the suggestion that a sub-contractor was responsible, which does not appear to be the case
scarlet patrol
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1892077094
I don't even know where to begin with
don't know if it has the permission for this stuff but I highly doubt it
rapid cypress
Looking at the page of that mod I very much doubt it has any kind of permissions from anyone else
jolly elbow
Question. If an organization posts your mod config.CPP syntax to GitHub without your permission, do you have any grounds to have it removed?
soft egret
straight copy paste of your code.. yes you could DMCA it if you wanted
but considering everyone can just unpack your mod and look at the config themselves.
yes you can. But might not be worth it
carmine folio
Under what license was the mod or config.cpp released?
jolly elbow
unknown...i just released it and claimed no copyright, although i signed the mod\
rustic copper
GitHub is a bit tricky...
Any User-Generated Content you post publicly, including issues, comments, and contributions to other Users' repositories, may be viewed by others. By setting your repositories to be viewed publicly, you agree to allow others to view and "fork" your repositories (this means that others may make their own copies of Content from your repositories in repositories they control).
jolly elbow
except these guys posted the codes without my approval
rustic copper
a license only tells people what they can do with it (besides viewing and forking)
jolly elbow
so they downloaded the mod, then copied the syntax
rustic copper
in that case, file a DMCA at GitHub (https://github.com/contact/dmca) and they can take it down
do know that your claim will be public (with all personal data removed)
because no license attached means "no rights"
jolly elbow
i see
jolly elbow
actually, it seems i had access rights, so i as able to remove it myself
further towards this, how does one invoke or install DMCA protections for one's mods in ARMA? i mean, words on a Steam page do little, i think...or is that all that's required?
soft egret
there are no "DMCA protections"
brisk ember
are you sure it's not the 1sb gitlab you're looking at? @jolly elbow 😛
jolly elbow
it is nightstalker
brisk ember
what's the account it was uploaded by?
jolly elbow
@soft egret i didnt think there were, but then if there's no such shield, what's the point of declaring that the file is protected by a license? or do the mod groups actually petition the US copyright office for a license code?
brisk ember
it's kinda like placing a sign with "Minefield beyond this point". People can and will sometimes ignore it, but that doesn't mean they won't have to deal with the consequences
carmine folio
That's in theory though right? I don't see many people suing another for them ignoring a DMCA
fossil basalt
Most legal action is kept private for obvious reasons. But, there are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes (Steam Ban, Game ban (by Devs), Platform ban (Forums/Discord/etc.) and persona non grata status in the community.
faint nacelle
has there not been DMCA related legal cases too. I recall there being talk about some where the offender got pretty hefty bill
rustic copper
https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/19/20812144/youtube-copyright-strike-lawsuit-alleged-extortion-minecraft
Case where someone abused DMCA claims and extorted YouTubers with it. The case is still running(?) where YouTube took legal actions against this guy.
dull moon
@rustic copper
Would you mind moving this to #other_ip_topics?
rustic copper
it's actually an answer/comment to the comment above it, so if it needs to be moved the whole conversation should be moved(?) 🤔
soft egret
correct, moving everything is unfeasable. But you can reply by moving to the proper channel, and just pinging the guy you're replying to there.
and/or posting a "continuing in #other_ip_topics" in here
exotic lily
So something tells me these people did not make the mods in this pack.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1894858081
rustic copper
So something tells me these people did make the mods in this pack.
The mods included in this pack are not developed nor owned by Fahrenheit life.
I guess you're wrong 😉
exotic lily
lol i ment did not
thorn pasture
Does this need reporting?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1888118917
"I do not own the rights to these mods this is just a Community collection"
soft egret
yep
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1866148501
🤔
@echo orchid @dull moon
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1866161446
ace extended might be @stoic beacon sorry I don't have time to look
stoic beacon
Thanks, just checked, there's ACE, MRH and my stuff.
Will take care of it later
low pebble
@fervent needle dualarms in the above from Armageddon ^
bitter sierra
Just a reminder that while it'd be nice if ACE wasn't reuploaded all over the place, there is absolutely nothing violating the license if people re-upload it to the workshop.
Same with ACRE.
We do not discriminate based on distribution methods.
As long as attribution remains the same.
And personally @stoic beacon it'd be nice if mods that descend from ACE (assuming you aren't actually using ACE code, just APIs, otherwise you might be in violation of our license technically ;)) also distributed under the same set, or in this case lack, of restrictions.
soft egret
Guy in #other_ip_topics just complained about exactly that. Its nice that mod makers say "i don't care do whatever you want" but thats bad for the users who search for "ace" and get a thousand results of mods called "ace" when their buddy just told them "get ace, its cool"
bitter sierra
Yes, but ultimately if we want to have open source mods for Arma that is something we have to live with and I think that the pros definitely outweigh the cons, and the cons in this case are not anything to do with Arma or the community per-se, but the lack of a good system within the Steam Workshop to have private collections or collections that work better in general for communities or groups of friends that want to make it easy for players to all get sync'd up.
And if people want to make sure they have the right mods they can use the Steam Workshop link to the exact mod.
faint nacelle
Reuploading ace or any mod without any modificatios serves no purpose though.
bitter sierra
True, but it is still allowed
vast notch
Gabe disagrees on that
carmine folio
Eh I don't care, it is easy to find real ACE, just a minor inconvenience at most
fresh harbor
fun fact: There's no link to ace's steam workshop entry on ace3mod.com
soft egret
#other_ip_topics please :x
vivid wave
Can I... discuss about possible violation by BI?
soft egret
before sending them to infringements, sure
vivid wave
Right. So, I and some of volunteers translated some lines in Arma 3 to Japanese, Bootcamp related, and looks some of those lines are implemented into latest Dev-Branch without asking us. Which is I really won't care, but I am not the only one who translated so I'm worried about it
This is the MOD: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1270174071
soft egret
Sure its your strings, and not that they just happened to translate it the same way?
vivid wave
Pretty sure are
soft egret
I'd say make extra sure, and then contact infringements.
But considering they can always just say "well there aren't that many ways to translate this, our translator just happened to find the same translation as you"
not sure if much is gonna come from it
vivid wave
I counted roughly, and found 650 of the same lines. Include a line like over 140 words in English, 350 characters in Japanese such as str_a3_boot_m04_briefing_situation_text
quick hull
looking at that string I can think of handful other ways of translating that so would assume its quite difficult to nail it down to exact same translations, especially in Japanese lang
soft egret
message infringements, or Nillers about it. And tell us the results
vivid wave
Alright. I'll ping him later
soft egret
🤔
Mod's "self-made" vest vs vanilla
dusk dew
amazingly accurate!
fossil basalt
If you remove colour from the equation, they appear to be identical. Gee, I wonder why?
scarlet patrol
what a talented modeler
BI should hire him
don't see why lie, always thought retexturing vanilla stuff was fine
brisk ember
how did he remove those shoulder protectors though? Edit the model or?
fossil basalt
To answer the question, the user is now no longer with us.
https://discordapp.com/channels/105462288051380224/105462541215358976/645381919441158155
brisk ember
and the workshop item?
fossil basalt
@scarlet patrol He ripped and unbinarised BI's stuff. See link above
scarlet patrol
oh thought there already was a shoulderless model
pretty dumb to break rules for some shoulderpads
fossil basalt
It was MUCH more than that (and to be perfectly fair, i may be confusing that image with another).
scarlet patrol
I guess its the usual
I'll do what I want because I simply can
fossil basalt
Hope he can afford a lawyer (if it comes to that)
carmine folio
I highly doubt it will
fossil basalt
You'd be surprised
brisk ember
might be closer to I can do it because it serves these few people who I shall call "the community" to sound right.
@scarlet patrol 😛
scarlet patrol
same with people cracking games
since there is never an apparent risk of getting caught, they don't see it as much as a crime as it would be to steal from a shop
brisk ember
well... been a few people asking some mod authors for help or release their mod off steam workshop because their cracked game is broken and they can't get the mods from the SW 😄
vocal remnant
@dark jasper Can we talk about this person being banned? @restive glacier
dull moon
what person?
vocal remnant
@fossil basalt @soft egret This was out of order. The person banned had the models donnated to him. He owns a milsim server and someone gave him the models If this is what is supposed to happen to everyone then 90% of the workshop should be gone
@dull moon His name is frostbite
he was gifted the vests and got banned with out a chance to explain himself
dull moon
the models he used where 1:1 ripped from the core game and this has been proven
vocal remnant
if someone told him it was agaisnt the EULA he would of removed there
dull moon
@vocal remnant
what now? your first wrote he remodeled it, now you corrected your post to "donated"
¯_(ツ)_/¯
vocal remnant
yeah that was my mistake, i got a bit confuesed
the point is he was banned with no chance to expalin himself, no one warned him. He didnt remodel them himself
dull moon
how donated the models then? as long as this is not known, the case stands
vocal remnant
wtf that "how donated the models then" this mean
vocal remnant
yeah one sec i am finding out
they were donated to him via various diffrent people
vocal remnant
he had them on the workshop for 1 year for the community and the server, why do you decide to take action now?
"it was literally on the Arma 3 Discord a year ago. I don't have the name"
dull moon
it was suspected earlier but no hard evidence was provided. now that this has been done the mods could take action
vocal remnant
and why didnt he have a chance to explain or warned to take them down
why was he just BANNED
dull moon
that's the way. get caught, get floated
vocal remnant
@dull moon if someone told him it was against the EULA he would of removed them in seconds with not hestation
lone basin
It was his job to verify that the model was legit
dull moon
if you want to proof his innocence, send the names of the persons who gave him the ripped models to a moderator, preferably @soft egret . until then there is no need to continue this discussion
vocal remnant
No, i want to find out why he didnt have a chabce to explain himself
rustic copper
if someone steals your car and gets caught, he will go to jail because it's illegal to do... there is no reason or explanation needed...
vocal remnant
and why no one warned him
if you guys said it was suspected for a while why not msg him and ask
dull moon
@carmine folio
we have all names of all donators and contributors dating back to OFP age... no problem to do that
(cup)
vocal remnant
@dull moon He was simply helping the commiunity giving them some more content, then BOOM banned.
dull moon
¯_(ツ)_/¯
soft egret
If this is what is supposed to happen to everyone then 90% of the workshop should be gone
well thats true.
if someone told him it was agaisnt the EULA he would of removed there
As a owner of Arma 3 he should already know the EULA as he accepted it.
As a uploader on the steam workshop he should already know the steam subscriber agreement (which also forbids it)
So him not knowing is not a valid excuse.
The person banned had the models donnated to him
donated? On the workshop he wrote he bought them.
He didnt remodel them himself
doesn't matter, they are in HIS mod. under HIS name. He is responsible for the contents.
why was he just BANNED
#rules violation == ban. Easy. I have nothing to do with the actual stolen stuff and taking care of that, that is already in the hands of BI legal department. My job here is to ban people who violate the rules. He was already banned 3 times and only let back as a "okey yet another chance", this was his last chance. Again rule violation -> banned -> done.
dull moon
Can i speakto someone with more IQ like @@boheima.new
very bad move, buddy...
@vocal remnant
soft egret
!issuewarning @vocal remnant abusive, derogatory language towards other members
edgy coralBOT
Done.
dull moon
no
vocal remnant
why not
you want the names
he need the link
which are in the disocrd
OOOO wait he is banned
dull moon
and you gave away your right for answers after insulting me / others
soft egret
I'm VERY sure he has friends which are on this discord, he can just ask them to look for the links here no?
since you joined this discord (today) you broke atleast 4 rules already. I suggest you be wary of your doings and read our #rules before you continue @vocal remnant
PM?
vocal remnant
wow
soft egret
Oh look yet another new guy who just joined the discord..
soft egret
Yes you can. Dwarden allows PM's from anyone. Don't talk nonsense pls
lone basin
Twiter, email, forums, ...
dull moon
dis gon be gud...
🍿
soft egret
He can still send messages on BIF, He can just email him dwarden@bistudio.com (yeah how can you possibly guess that address), he can join any other discord that dwarden is on (basically everything arma related)
vocal remnant
@dull moon what alngue is that? jw
soft egret
Has been a looong time since we had the last post-ban troll wave.
rustic copper
turns on popcorn machine
soft egret
You signed up for the wave of new accounts when you removed his access.
So you are confirming that this is just a troll attack wave?
dull moon
@soft egret
ikr... was about time to happen again, eh? 😄
soft egret
This is a thing between frost, and BI legal department.
I don't know what you want from us here.
dull moon
we are hear on behalf of IIIE, to give frost a voice
dedmen gave you an email adress frost can use. no need to continue
soft egret
What you might be missing is that this exact thing happens here regularly.
vocal remnant
@dull moon you want the names, then frost needs to join and find the links
dull moon
unrightfully removed
wrong. possession and usage of protected content
soft egret
We ban someone, all of the sudden waves of new people join Arma discord and start poking people and demanding someone who broke the rules to be reprieved
unrightfully removed
Again. #rules read them. Everything is rightful here
lone basin
He was in possession of the stolen content, doesn't matter
vocal remnant
we want frost to have a fair fight, not just banned with no chance to explain.
vocal remnant
@lone basin They have been on frosts case for a while now, why not ask him to remove it?
soft egret
purchased content
purchasing Arma p3ds violates the EULA. purchasing vanilla content is even worse, purchasing other peoples stuff that you have no rights to, and then publishing them without any rights to do that
They have been on frosts case for a while now
since yesterday. about 4 hours before the ban
!purgeban @carmine folio 30d trolling
next?
edgy coralBOT
*fires them railguns at @torn badge* Ò_Ó
dull moon
i'm out for dinner, gonna read up the drama later. cya
vocal remnant
@soft egret did you call us trolls?
soft egret
I call people who are trolling, trolls
I know you are just trying to frame me now with "he called me abusive names 😢, ban him"
but I don't care tbh
vocal remnant
@soft egret where do i go to report mods?
soft egret
Dwarden
top right, purple name
Oh hes offline
But you can just stop wasting your time here.
He was banned for violating the rules the 9th time. he was already banned here 3 times, but let back as a "second chance" and "third chance"
this was his last chance. He violated the rules yet again, he is permanently banned now. Nothing you or your army can do about that (besides getting yourself banned too)
People who violate the rules get banned, that simple.
rustic copper
reading the rules will give all the information needed:
- Moderators are volunteers who moderate, intervene only when needed, by their best judgement in uncertain situations.
If you feel that you have been wrongly handled by a Moderator please contactsysoporcm, wait till response (as soon as possible).
vocal remnant
@soft egret I want to report you, i wont bring him frost unless nesscariry
soft egret
Then go ahead. Have fun
soft egret
@nimble tree my side can be summarized in the screenshot of the ripped model that I sent in here yesterday.
nimble tree
Ok I will go take a look at that
soft egret
Now that I'm done eating..
May I note about what a weird coincidence it is that after someone was proven to have ripped and modified and republished Arma vanilla models.
People come along and state that the models were donated, then suddenly it changes to purchased (Tools EULA violation, and even more serious copyright violation) instead of donated
And it just so happens that oh so favourably for the banned user, noone can say where these models actually came from, so that in their view, noone should be banned or punished, because noone knows who did it.
Yes sure. Tell that to whoever you want, but don't waste my time
nimble tree
I'm just trying to find out the other side of the story that's why I joined I'm not here to troll or anything like that
carmine folio
🍿
dull moon
If you got a little time on your hand, scroll up and read what was posted yesterday and today
That should give you a clear view on dedmens and others point of view
nimble tree
ok
high island
🍿 🥃
soft egret
My side is, user with almost a dozen rule violations and a couple bans who is currently on his second second chance yet again violated the rules and got banned for it.
dull moon
This sums it up pretty much...
soft egret
His IP violations are seperate from the discord ban, but I think people think they are the same thing, they are not.
It doesn't matter whether he ripped stuff or just got it elsewhere, that only matters to BI legal department.
What matters to me is that he distributed ripped stuff on workshop (and armaholic), breaking #rules 19 and Arma EULA, warranting a ban from the discord and BIF (would even warrant a ban without past warnings, bans, violations. Just so happens that he also has several of these)
nimble tree
ok so he is in trouble for useing them regardless of were he got them form that makes sense
fossil basalt
The rules have been quite clear for a VERY long time. As they say "ignorance of the law is no excuse".
Discussions about copy protection or copying, backing-up, hacking, cracking or reverse engineering of any of BI's products or the products of any other developer will not be tolerated and such discussions will be deleted immediately. Any breach of this rule may result in the poster no longer having access to the forum.
For many years this community has been known as the premium addon/mod creating community, people work tirelessly and in great detail to create fantastic addons/mods/missions/campaigns to release for free so that everyone benefits, including Bohemia Interactive. There are a few simple rules in place to provide the respect to these creative people/groups that they deserve:
The first and most fundamental rule is that you must seek permission to alter someone's work, to mirror it or use it in any way other than for personal use. No permission, no editing, no mirroring, no adding to your mod pack, no editing and sharing around your private squad, none of that is acceptable.
On these forums you must follow this rule, if a person/team post a thread to share an addon/mod using content from someone else without permission and we receive a complaint then the mod thread will be closed until the issue is resolved and the forum member(s) risks being permanently banned from these forums for taking someone's work without permission.
This isn't just limited to re-using content in addons/mods/missions however, it's not acceptable to edit someone's work without permission and then to post screenshots of it on the forums (even if the edited addon/mod is purely for personal use), it's also not acceptable to edit someone's work, or use someone's work in any way that you don't have permission for and then to create videos which you post on these forums, doing any of the above without the permission of the original creators risks a permanent ban, for individuals, for whole mod teams or squads.```From the EULA
As a Subject to the Grant of License herein above, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, duplicate, reproduce, translate, reverse-engineer, modify, disassemble, decompile, derive source code, create derivative works based on the Program, remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Program or otherwise modify the Program without the prior written consent of the Licensor.```@soft egret Frost feels he has been wrongly accused and would like for you to contact him directly to work this out
safe arrow
Its him who has to contact anyone, not the other way round
soft egret
he has been wrongly accused
we can take the quick route on that. Gimme a sec
fossil basalt
There is NO "working this out". The evidence is quite clear (this includes conversations).
soft egret
Here ya go. No "wrongly accused". I have a 16 page document with screenshots and comparisons that show irrefutable proof
He can feel wrongly accused all he wants, but theres no changing facts.
Tbh I'm done wasting my time with people lying after they were already proven wrong.
nimble tree
I understand I'm just here on behalf of echelon International and frost I would rather not but frost can't defend himself that's why I am here
soft egret
there is nothing to defend really.
Case closed already.
He has ripped stuff in his mod, proof is there, more than enough proof actually... There is nothing he can "defend" on that.
Unless he suddenly says his steam and BIF and Discord accounts got hacked months ago and someone else did all that. 🤣
fossil basalt
All you are achieving batdc is telling us that you associate with known thieves
safe arrow
And he can indeed defend himself, the adresses and contacts (like Dwarden) where mentioned multiple times. Its up to him to do so.
brisk ember
He says on his workshop item that he's talking to Dwarden about it already...
soft egret
🤔
That makes no sense, Dwarden is currently not available
He cannot be talking to him
brisk ember
perhaps not as we speak, but probably at least made some contact?
soft egret
with "talking" he probably means telling him "I was wrongly accused by that guy, I did nothing wrong" which all his mates from his community probably already started spamming dwarden with
I wish him luck with that. Don't think its gonna accomplish anything though.
fossil basalt
Good luck with that. In digital forensics, that amount of evidence is what we call "an open and shut case".
brisk ember
when did spamming resolve anything?
nimble tree
Who is spamming?
fossil basalt
The multitude who were banned from here for one
soft egret
with spamming I don't mean one guy spamming, I mean probably a dozen guys posting the same message, group spamming
Like.. Compare it to lifers, Hey you are selling ripped models from other games and distributing it in your modpack.
"Not my fault, I just bought these ripped models from someone else. You cannot punish me for that!"
Or "Hey you stole my car you thief"
"No I didn't, I paid someone else to steal it for me, but I forgot his name, tough luck dude cannot punish anyone now and your car is mine! HAH!"
Like.. yeah sure.. have fun sharing your story in prison
But sure, keep trying to defend that guy if you wish, its just not gonna accomplish anything
brisk ember
I feel bad for Dwarden if they're really ganging up to spam
soft egret
I'd say Dwarden is used to that :D
But doesn't mean you shouldn't feel bad for him
weary jackal
Are things seriously gonna get legal?
carmine folio
when your workshop mod that contains stolen content gets removed and you get banned after multiple violations so you send people from your own milsim community to post the same questions, arguments and answer in the official arma channel
nimble tree
If the models are removed will the ban be removed?
brisk ember
Are things seriously gonna get legal?
Why not? This is theft of BI property if I'm not mistaken
soft egret
If the models are removed will the ban be removed?
no, I won't explain that again, I already explained atleast twice.
Are things seriously gonna get legal?
Thats for BI legal department to decide on, I guess they start looking into it on monday
brisk ember
If the models are removed will the ban be removed?
But at least the workshop item is allowed to continue existing, right?
soft egret
But at least the workshop item is allowed to continue existing, right?
BI's decision
fossil basalt
It also violates the SSA so Steam/Valve could also take action (including legal)
brisk ember
As in account ban or?
fossil basalt
or More
soft egret
His forum posts will not be permitted most likely.
He was already investigated for the exact same thing a few months ago, but we didn't have time to really deeply look into it, now it has been proven that we should've looked into it more deeply back then.
Even if he removes that stuff now, we don't have time to constantly monitor every update until he re-adds ripped stuff again, and we cannot allow ripped content being advertised on the forums.
fossil basalt
They will all be hidden/removed from view.
Going through his post history makes his position quite clear Why try so hard to stop other people from remixing your project? You're only hindering respectful mod makers as most people will easily get right past your efforts at obfuscation and steal your assets! Make it easy for people to access your project and you'll have much less trouble with people stealing your hard work.
soft egret
Btw @vocal remnant onto your claim that he didn't know that it violates the EULA or is not allowed.
Here is a quote from a past conversation with Fros7bite about exactly that.
HorribleGoat 25/06/2019
because using ripped A3 models is not allowed
HorribleGoat 25/06/2019
and will lead to bans and possibly worse
Fros7bite 25/06/2019
since when?
Dedmen 25/06/2019
since Arma 3 alpha was announced and the EULA was published
Dedmen 25/06/2019
But be mindful, getting caught with that get's you a easy ban
He has been informed about it. He knows its wrong. He chose to ignore it and do it anyway and now he gets his reward for that.
So sorry but I call bullsh* on any "I didn't know" "I didn't mean to" "I'm sorry" thats coming from him and I honestly don't care anymore what he has to say. He can play dumb all he likes, I know the facts, don't care about the bullsh he's making up.
Its his personality to lie and ignore rules and "don't do that" being told to him.
Can see the same on all his past bans on Arma discord for over and over again breaking the same rules after being warned over and over about the same stuff.
Some people are just not able to follow rules, thats what "banning" was invented for.
fossil basalt
THAT'S WHAT "BANNING" WAS INVENTED FOR! <- That needed to be in caps and more prominent!
scarlet patrol
please people from echelon International or whatever
mods have to deal with people like frost very very frequently
yet they've been really patient with all of you wheter you acted rude or not
you've all come here to understand the reasons of his ban and to explain his actions
reason:he violated rules
his answer to that: they were donated
there are proofs for the first but not for the latter
since we're all supposedly adults we should all understand that
1)When accepting EULA you are by law responsable of any breaking of the rules in it, not knowing them is not an excuse
2)Since you have not given any info about these shady model donators they can't do anything to help frost's cause.
3)Coming here and insulting mods while defending him didn't help at all if not made everything more annoying for the BI legal team
4)if you're willing to associate with an IP thief and come in mass to defend him with no proof you should probably make better friends
vocal remnant
@soft egret @dull moon @scarlet patrol Doesn't Bohemia supports people re-texturing, didnt they have the update to unbinarized the contact models for people to change?
brisk ember
they unencrypted Livonia map object models
vocal remnant
they unbinarized contact modesl
brisk ember
[redacted]
scarlet patrol
if I understood correctly he modified BI models
that is not allowed
period
safe arrow
Why dont you just read the EULA posted several times above, its not that hard to read and understand.
narrow topaz
You assume the trolls are capable of understanding the eula
safe arrow
And thats the point where you dont understand anything about modding.... Its not modifying existing content as it has been done in your friends case. Its about adding additional stuff created by your own (like your mentioned additional textures). No need to touch or change any of the orginial files from Arma
narrow topaz
You seem to forget all of the mods that either a) have written permission, or b) make their own content (i.e, RHS/CUP/ACE/etc)
fossil basalt
Also seem to be missing the reverse engineering bit.
And lets make this even more clear, Echelon is about to be prohibited from the Forums and all Bohemia platforms if you guys continue to come here in an attempt to stir sh*t.
!mute @pulsar nimbus 14d
safe arrow
Only banning those who are not able to read, understand and follow the rules they agreed upon while buying the game and uploading to steam. Its not everyone, just the stupid ones...
(And the ignorant..)
scarlet patrol
does this discord give awards or special tags for successfully ignoring a single sentence for 7 full hours?
safe arrow
Yep its called "ban" 😈
scarlet patrol
always leaves a sour feeling to end a discussion with a ban or mute
you feel like the other guy will not understand the lesson
fossil basalt
¯_(ツ)_/¯
brisk ember
reading comprehension can be tough for some
fossil basalt
At least he cant complain that he was banned.. at least not yet anyway
carmine folio
Weren't y'all saying earlier he wasn't banned for violating the EULA?
lone basin
Frostbite was but not his friend afaik (from the Discord)
faint nacelle
@bdork#2119 @brisk ember No Arma 3 asset has ever been unbinarized by BI, they were unEncrypred meaning they can be viewed and used in terrains but no model is released for editing
brisk ember
ah roger, I misunderstood
dull moon
@vocal remnant
didnt they have the update to unbinarized the contact models for people to change?
no, they did not. BI didn't even debinarize the models from the A2 data pack. all BI did with the update was do sort of "decrypt" and move the contact data from .EBO to .PBO file format.
scarlet patrol
I guess groups like cup have certain permissions to port from A2
not relevant just wondering
dull moon
the same permission as everyone to use the released data
rustic copper
A2 assets are released by BI under APL license, so can be used in mods.
A3 assets are NOT released for modding, except of course reskins and config changes.
fossil basalt
Not entirely correct, but close. Don't conflate an "external" config/reskin with permission to edit the models themselves.
soft egret
Doesn't Bohemia supports people re-texturing
no. BI tolerates retextures, and allows them for models that they publish in A3 Samples pack.
didnt they have the update to unbinarized the contact models for people to change?
No. Never.
they unbinarized Livonia map object models
Don't talk wrongs, they never did. @brisk ember, thanks
so what frost was doing was allowed
no it wasn't @vocal remnant
they unbinarized contact modesl
no they didn't.
retexture depends on binarized or not, remodel I guess
no it doesn't. wtf are you talking.
i dont get it, is every one of the million vanilla retexture mods on the workshop illegal?
no
A2 assets are released by BI under APL license, so can be used in mods.
wrong. SOME A2 assets, in the licensed data pack where released under APL license.
You cannot just take Arma 2 stuff and do whatever with it, you can only take the stuff from the licensed data packages
brisk ember
Don't talk wrongs, they never did. @brisk ember, thanks
I was already corrected by HorribleGoat 😉
soft egret
And I as usual go through messages from top to bottom :u
brisk ember
Ree
hardy furnace
Just read through all this. Yikes.
vocal remnant
On behalf of frostbite, i would like apologies for all the confusion and drama that has been caused. I hope this will not proceed any further if we leave it here? @soft egret @fossil basalt
soft egret
I never intended on pushing anything further ^^
You only wanted to push something back
vocal remnant
Well i am sorry, have a nice day
scarlet patrol
can workshop Missions require mods banned from the workshop?
seeing a lot of stuff that requires SWOP or other stuff and was wondering if it was alright
rustic copper
As long as the missions themselves don't contain assets which violates any IP, EULA or copyright infringes there's nothing wrong with them.
Although it's weird that there is content that requires something that isn't allowed...
Guess it's a grey area where nothing can be done legally, except for making sure the illegal stuff isn't available (which will make those mission unusable)
scarlet patrol
well as I said above, those missions do require SWOP to work as they have swop assets in it
but there is no link, just a mention that they require it
should they be allowed?
rustic copper
personal opinion: no, because it simply triggers the SWOP developers to continue
legal: I'm not sure what is and isn't allowed by Disney. For example if naming SW is already illegal, than the missions are not allowed. If it only applies to models/textures, then missions are 99% safe...
scarlet patrol
wait so one could hypotethically make a workshop star wars mod and simply not quoting anything sw related and be fine?
dull moon
nope. also model designs are protected by disney. like the uniforms, helmets, fighters, ect... all you can think of. everything that is part of the current SW universe is not allowed to be reproduced in any 3d form. that's disney....
scarlet patrol
thats really aggressive
its not like they'll lose a market for starsim games
scarlet patrol
well returning to my case
if I were to make a mission that had the E.P.S.M. mod,only downloadable by external links, known for ripping models from what I recall was cod advanced warfare which has less dystopic laws, but still does not allow the mod
would the mission be allowed in the workshop
dull moon
that's pretty controversial and tbqh would be a d**k move to do
supporting openly violating mods by creating a mission around it could be considered as a "middle finger to the community" to say so
scarlet patrol
mhmm.. I see
shame
it had nice stuff, and tbh I barely recognize its from cod
but it would give more trouble than profit indeed
luckly there is a dollar store legal version in the workshop
fossil basalt
@vocal remnant On behalf of frostbite, i would like apologies for all the confusion and drama that has been caused. I hope this will not proceed any further if we leave it here? There is a saying, "Do the crime, do the time".
That's not how it works at all. He has committed an act which is not only forbidden by Bohemia Interactive, but one which is also prohibited by law. The matter is no longer in our hands, but in those of the BI Legal Department.
vivid wave
Nillers report back about translation problem. In short, BI's claim is this: Your report that reported to Feedback Tracker, is free to use to fix/improve our games and thus your MOD that is stated in Feedback Tracker is used to improve our game
🤔
soft egret
that's not really how that works...
whats license on your mod?
was it packed with BI tools (tools eula might contain something), is it on workshop (subscriber agreement might give them the right to integrate it into the game from workshop)?
soft egret
Ah yeah. These translations in the text itself they can ofc use. But not just stuff out of your mod.
Unless as I said BI tools eula, steam subscriber agreement gives them the right, I think steam might. don't have time to read up again
vivid wave
Yes, it is
Honestly I'm thinking about crap everything out and make every lines again by volunteers, who understand will throw out rights to BI
soft egret
Maybe, ask BI to have your name/group name included in translation credits?
vivid wave
Yes, that is a point. But however, I know 4 of volunteers (included Roy and me) but I'm sure there's more on Google Spreadsheet, who are anonymous and can't reach out
low pebble
Contact bi and tell em to remove dat shit
vivid wave
whats license on your mod?
Never stated on the workshop page because just I'm lazy, which is actually my fault. I used APL for older works
Either APL or APL-SA, it is prohibited to use in commercial use right?
fallen wagon
If there was no license given, outside of the tools having some clause for that as Dedmen said before, that's exclusive copyright anyhow.
See: https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/
rustic copper
Wow... 2 years later and it's still around...
And yes, there are always other sources where people try to bypass the workshop, and then have other upload it instead.
fossil basalt
@radiant pagoda 3 of your 4 posts on this Discord are about a banned mod. Yeah, that post is being removed.
Do you really think that after many years of copyright/IP Rights violations, that it is all of a sudden OK? Absolutely not.
radiant pagoda
@fossil basalt Your name in the Discord is colored orange. Yeah, I stated a fact and sincerely but respectfully question said removal. Why does the quantity of my posts matter? You removed my posts because I mentioned a mod in passing? No matter, it is not my place to say. Forgive me if I have sinned, for I most sincerely did not mean to offend, let alone offend a veteran moderator! However, perhaps you could be more specific by what you mean in your question. Because I do not know what you’re actually questioning. What is “sudden OK?” Me referencing the previous iteration of an active Steam mod? If I have said anything to offend you, I beg you to forgive me.
vivid wave
Nillers also relays me the official words, that say the MOD you posted to Feedback Tracker is meant to improve/fix our game, so we can use
okay
Honestly I'm giving up
quick hull
🤔
fossil basalt
Given that you are a new user and that 3/4 of your posts centered on a banned mod, It gave the distinct impression that you were attempting to justify/promote it. As such your posts were removed. Additionally, we have rules that prohibit such discussion.
Discussions about copy protection or copying, backing-up, hacking, cracking or reverse engineering of any of BI's products or the products of any other developer will not be tolerated and such discussions will be deleted immediately. Any breach of this rule may result in the poster no longer having access to the forum. These are not concrete terms with precise definitions — avoid even the appearance of any of these things. While you didn't directly engage in this type of discussion, the stolen mod in question did and we will not go down the path of discussing the how and why behind it all.
Regarding my comment Do you really think that after many years of copyright/IP Rights violations, that it is all of a sudden OK? Absolutely not.
If you've stolen a car, but then sell it to someone, then they sell it back to you for 1 Euro/Dollar/etc and you buy it, that does now NOT make you the legitimate owner. The same is true with mods.
indigo thorn
Just discovered that Frostbite bloke who did the IIIE stuff has stollen some of my stuff.
I can't believe after all the above waffle, he's posted something just 2 days ago with more stollen models and textures.
DMCA inbound....
fossil basalt
@scarlet patrol those missions do require SWOP to work as they have swop assets in it You will find that they do not actually have "assets" in the mission files, but rather "code/text (classnames)" that calls those items from the mod. In essence, the vast majority of them only have text in the mission. Yes, some may contain imagery or audio files, but these are the exception, not the rule.
indigo thorn
I am right in thinking cracking open .p3d files is strictly prohibited, aren’t I?
Frostbite has done that with my work. So how he can claim innocence in all this is a bit of a mystery...
Additionally, he seems to have a Patron page so is making money from stealing other peoples’ work.
😡
fossil basalt
If you'll notice, a DMCA claim has already been filed (possibly yours?) and the mod itself has been marked incompatible by BI. Also, all the personal details needed to identify the person behind the name have been collected.
indigo thorn
Yes - that’s my DMCA
But didn’t notice the incompatible marker.
Very good to see action is already occurring on this.
soft egret
@indigo thorn can you PM me proof/ref pics for the stuff that he stole from you? BI legal will probably be interested in that
indigo thorn
Yes - will do. Away from my main machine at the moment but should be able to do it later today.
brisk ember
well, people can still download the mod, can't they?
manic narwhal
yea it only stops people who get scared of by the message
fossil basalt
As an admin or moderator with proper permissions, you have a number of tools available for moderation. For details on granting permissions to moderators or internal developers, please see Adding Community Moderators.
Hiding as Incompatible
Use this option to disassociate content from its respective Game Hub. This option is designed to remove the content from the hub/game, without affecting the content or the upload privileges of the owner. For example, if a Dota screenshot is uploaded to the CS:GO hub, hiding it as incompatible would be the ideal moderation action (the user would still have their screenshot, but it would no longer be associated with CS:GO).```
hallow frigate
@vivid wave Wargaming did the exactly same thing to me. Made the german and lesser quality spanish translation mod for WoT back in the days. They have to ask for perms b4 using your work if your license doesn't state otherwise. End of story.
hallow frigate
Kay then, BI took it for granted (which is a bit questionable from legal perspective) but BIs argumentation is understandable.
Hope you get acknowledged for your work 😉 thanks for the contribution
fossil basalt
Just be aware that when someone says "hey, by the way, Dog in Spanish is Perro" they can't claim rights over that.
low pebble
Unless like pointed out allot of the translation strings are EXACT copies ?
soft egret
did you read the post
low pebble
Thought i saw that mentioned between all the messages from days back
soft egret
Roy, BI employee wrote most of the strings in the spreadsheet, which was put in the mod.
So even if the strings are exact copies, many of them were written by a BI employee to begin with
@vocal remnant still on frost's side? He just uploaded a mod with dozens of ripped models, from SPS Equipment and UnderSiege, it already has a DMCA filed against it.
not only is literally everything in there ripped, its also done really terribly. All the lods are copies, even though they should reduce in quality. The performance of that mod will be abominal
brisk ember
wouldn't be surprised, the people on his Discord are absolutely oblivious to any rules regarding this stuff
they just seem to want their patron stuff, illegally obtained or not
their "coordinated effort" to get you removed as a mod is a good laugh to read though
fossil basalt
Is there a "fun" thread to read?
dull moon
Isn't this here fun enough? 😉
brisk ember
fun? hm...
small kindle
IDK, watching people attack Admins in the Official ArmA III discord server because of a mod littered with ripped content that violates the EULA is pretty funny.
fossil basalt
They have yet to understand the concept of "anything you say, CAN and WILL be used against you in a court of law"
small kindle
It's amusing to see how far people will go to defend something, even if it's blatantly proven to be in violation of the EULA.
Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of the "cooler" mods that violated the EULA were still pretty good, but as mod makers we all have to understand the rules, and using ripped stuff is an absolute no-go if you want to upload to the Workshop.
Frostbite's excuse to ME when I called him out on it was that all of his models were "bought from online vendors". Which is the exact same excuse that VanSchmoozin used to defend the BF4 and R6S rips in Zenith.
fossil basalt
Not to mention his continued deletion of moderator comments on his workshop
small kindle
^^
That whole debacle IMHO set a bad precedent, on one hand you had a fairly renowned mod maker and retexture artist with ripped stuff in a single mod, but then every mod he made was put on trial even though there was no evidence that those other mods contained ripped content.
Guilty until proven innocent kind of deal.
fossil basalt
No, he outright lied about it when presented with evidence. He pulled a Trump response
small kindle
Lied about the content in Zenith?
fossil basalt
yes
small kindle
Right, that I can understand, I was referring to the fact that his other mods had no ripped content in them, and yet were taken down anyway.
Whether those were his own actions or Staff's I'm still unsure.
What I do know is that for a while, when VSM V2 came back up, it came back up with a few items here and there missing, allegedly because they had to "prove" they owned the models for them.
fossil basalt
If someone sh*ts on one corner of your food in a restaurant, do you just scrape the poo away and continue eating? The answer is "no", it all gets thrown out.
small kindle
If one rotten apple hangs from a branch, do you cut the whole tree down?
Don't get me wrong, I could understand an inquisition into the custom stuff in his mods.
brisk ember
all the non-warfighter stuff (the legit stuff) exists as MLO
fossil basalt
He vehemently defended the obviously ripped content until he knew the game was up, so how are we to trust the other stuff? Once the trust has been broken, there is no going back.
small kindle
True, but then again without sufficient evidence of the other models being ripped from anything it comes off as very witch-hunty.
fossil basalt
In the military, we have a saying "One OH SH*T wipes out 1,000 atta-boys"
There is no witch hunt when already guilty
small kindle
Guilty on one account, an account totally separate from his three other mods, all of which had existed longer than Zenith and had plenty of time to be under scrutiny.
fossil basalt
He should be thankful he wasnt prosecuted
small kindle
Prosecuted? As in, legally? Absolutely.
vocal remnant
@fossil basalt @soft egret and what are the consequences?
small kindle
He had a donation pool for paying for his 3D models if I remember correctly.
fossil basalt
All the way up to being sued, in some countries, jail.
small kindle
Usually it depends on where the ripped content comes from.
soft egret
consequences are DMCA's
fossil basalt
There have been prosecutions regarding IP theft, but you'll find that most are behind NDAs
At the end of the day, the rules and the law are explicitly clear. If someone chooses to violate them, they have no excuse and no recourse.
brisk ember
what about steam workshop bans on repeated offenses? 🤔
fossil basalt
Thats up to Valve/Steam, but it can be used against the individual in court as proof of intent
vivid wave
Honestly I don't want to discuss about it anymore, but let me clearfy that Roy didn't wrote the most of lines, but I. He only tweaked few of lines.
vivid wave
Just a statement:
Roy, BI employee wrote most of the strings in the spreadsheet,No.
which was put in the mod.Never. I've never updated the MOD after he tweaked some lines.
Some of lines that implemented to Development Branch is wrote/tweaked by Roy, and those are not a thing I'm claiming rights
vocal remnant
@soft egret How do you know frostbites models don't have LODs
dull moon
It has many lods, all the same 😉
vocal remnant
How do you know? @soft egret
soft egret
Why do you care?
vocal remnant
Just curious will you anwser?
soft egret
Mikeros Eliteness tool tells me that
vocal remnant
@soft egret how about the MLOD?
soft egret
what mlod?
vocal remnant
how you converteed the file to verify the LOD
soft egret
I didn't
dull moon
With eliteness one does not need to convert
soft egret
If all LOD's have the same number of verticies, they are the same
They btw also all have the same properties
INCLUDING the "modeled by" property. Containing the name of a modeler working on UnderSiege Gear. Who that model was ripped from
vocal remnant
@soft egret still on frost's side? He just uploaded a mod with dozens of ripped models, from SPS Equipment and UnderSiege, it already has a DMCA filed against it. not only is literally everything in there ripped, its also done really terribly. All the lods are copies, even though they should reduce in quality. The performance of that mod will be abomina
from you
soft egret
correct
vocal remnant
so you know
faint nacelle
the eliteness analyses models and shows what its eaten.
soft egret
I don't know what want?
dull moon
so you know
Knows a lot..
What i wonder is, why is the stuff from frost still a matter on here? Evidence has been provided, case closed...
/shrug
faint nacelle
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dull moon
(meh, mobile doesn't like shrugs)
faint nacelle
nope
fossil basalt
@vocal remnant This is one of your last posts before being muted, make it count.
flint topaz
""Moved topic""
Does anyone one know if this is still under investigation?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1171952244
wild stone
@flint topaz under investigation by whom?
carmine folio
Hello, greetings
What is this whole ordeal with Fros7bite? I am in the Echelon International discord as well as this one, and there seems to be a lot of chatter about it. Im a newcomer myself; can anyone explain to me this incident?
lone basin
Ripped stuff from Arma 3
brisk ember
He uses edited models of BI content which is illegal to do
Moreover, he ripped models from another mod, uploading them into his (already deleted) Specialist Package
carmine folio
🤔 but if he edits em, doesnt that fit around the Copyright issues? (as like... if XX% is changed, they are seen as "original" items)
brisk ember
What, EULA says you can't edit BIS content
no percentage of change makes it original content
carmine folio
ah, rip
I might have to read the EULA througout to get an understanding what this is
brisk ember
I wouldn't really bother to be honest.
He's using ripped models, of which he's fully aware
carmine folio
its just that, when I read the drama from both sides, its a lot of "they wrong, we are right" - from both sides
faint nacelle
they are wrong. no question, no loopholes
carmine folio
im just trying to have an Unbiased view on this
brisk ember
They are wrong, in any way including the legal way
soft egret
They are wrong. I shared proof screenshots of fros7bite's rips in here if you scroll up a loong way
Also I don't know how they can still think "we are right" after getting one of their items marked as "incompatible" and the other one successfully DMCA'ed and deleted by the guy who they ripped the stuff from.
brisk ember
I think they believe "We are right" because it serves their own gain
soft egret
You really need to be delusional to not accept that you're wrong after all tat.
brisk ember
If you take out all the opinions of either side, it's simply the following:
Frostbite used edited BI models in his content, which can only be obtained illegally. Additionally, his Specialist package included models that were ripped from other mods. Author is responsible for the legality of his content. @carmine folio
carmine folio
aight
brisk ember
@soft egret do you know why it's just marked incompatible and not removed? (assuming it's BI themselves that marked it incompatible)
brisk ember
Ah, roger
carmine folio
Maybe they accept personal use (aka Not public)
faint nacelle
if its on steam, its public
brisk ember
Doubt it
brisk ember
What are you looking for?
faint nacelle
Well its your time but Im not sure what you expect to find
carmine folio
idk, just a bigger understanding of whats going on
brisk ember
Just wait for the decision by BI. That'll tell you everything you need to know.
carmine folio
brisk ember
no preview available, please tell us what you want to say with it
faint nacelle
well you can of course try but the case is very clear
carmine folio
it sure seems like it, if what yall say is true, with the EULA and copyright etc. that seems pretty set
faint nacelle
Just be adviced that if you are really not already entagled with them you might not want to get caught up in their poop.
brisk ember
Sounds like a wise decision
carmine folio
How would a mod maker find out that somebody stole files/code from his mod and used it to make another mod?
soft egret
accidentally see a screenshot of that another mod and recognize your stuff in it
carmine folio
How good would a system implemented by BI/steam that checks workshop files and see if there's code/files that are very similar/exact copies from another workshop file be?
soft egret
exactly how good the workshop crawler already is
carmine folio
?
soft egret
That system already exists. google "Arma workshop crawler"
carmine folio
Okay, from what I've read so far it's a pretty good system
so you take the hash, put it into the big database, it compares your hash with all the hashes stored, and once a match is made, it shows you the workshop file
soft egret
ye
carmine folio
Then, you can narrow it down to what file/code is being stolen by taking your file's/code's hash and plugging it into the database, right?
Would a DMCA/IP violation claim be a lot more on your side if the code has your tag on it, e.g. RHS_USAF_M4 instead of USAF_M4
soft egret
"a lot more" ?
carmine folio
as in, your DMCA/IP violation claim would be more on your side/a lot stronger, like, saying this person stole your phone, and you're sure it's your phone because it has your picture in the background screen
rustic copper
has a feeling someone tries to bypass the law
low pebble
👆
carmine folio
i'm trying to learn stuff here because i plan on starting a hobby of coding/scripting in arma 3
rustic copper
In short; if you can proof, in any way, that someone stole your content, than it's a valid claim.
Even when it means that something is not visible directly (eg. a special pixel in a texture, or a hidden plane in an object)
carmine folio
https://i.gyazo.com/9ab938439538a979e1ac3840551fe41c.png
https://i.gyazo.com/da01b4ac26df296235ee8d15c1df39b2.png
https://i.gyazo.com/8d0c5b0cec26eab4a18a9063cf33c1b8.png
what im using to learn how to code in SQF
rustic copper
although most people don't care about being obvious that they took assets from other people...
carmine folio
and yes I misplaced the "RPT files" and "preProcessFiles" links
soft egret
If you are asking whether you should use tags in your code, you should do that anyway, its good practice
But IP violations or DMCA wise it doesn't matter if its obvious or not
outer ocean
Section 101 of the federal Copyright Act defines a derivative work as a “work based or derived from one or more already existing works.” To be copyrightable, a derivative work must incorporate some or all of a preexisting work and add new original copyrightable authorship to that work. Courts evaluate the originality requirement for derivative works no more stringently than any other copyrighted work. The requisite level of originality is extremely low and simply requires “independent creation plus a modicum of creativity.” Fiest Publ’ns, Inc., 499 US 346. Thus, a derivative work can be sufficiently original for purposes of copyright law, even though it closely resembles preexisting works.
so I dont think thats possible
patent flicker
The creator of a derivative work can copyright the material contributed to the original work, they can not gain copyright over the original material. It is copyright infringement to make/sell derivative works without permission from the original owner.
faint nacelle
if license allows derivative work at all
if no license, no derivates are allwed either
as then its stricktest possible
Also US law above. So stuff might differ a bit from country to country
regarding steam, US law is used I recall but not 100% sure in that
outer ocean
Copyright law vests the original work’s copyright owner with the exclusive right to prepare derivative works. Therefore, the owner in the preexisting work must authorize the creation of a derivative work in order for it to be separately owned by another. If not authorized, the preparation of a derivative work constitutes copyright infringement of the preexisting work and is not copyrightable. But if authorized, and an absent an agreement otherwise, the owner of the preexisting work will not have any copyright ownership in the derivative work. That's the only two criteria. You get permission and you change something.
faint nacelle
whats this in regard though @outer ocean ? continuing off from somewhere or commenting on the stuff above?
outer ocean
just throwing it out there about having a system checking if someone is reusing code and stealing mods
rustic copper
All I see is copy&paste from US copyright law... Which is useless on the internet...
Valve has its own EULA which forbids uploading content you didn't create or own, BI is in Europe and has its own EULA and licenses.
And copyright is not used in theft cases... It's still a crime to steal...
spare osprey
I'm not an expert but I don't think this is allowed. Let me know if I'm wrong
Warhead's AC130 Drone
has these . p3d in it
a3\drones_f\Air_F_Gamma\UAV_02\Rotor_F.p3d
a3\drones_f\Air_F_Gamma\UAV_02\UAV_02_F.p3d
UAV_controller_AAF_F.p3d
UAV_controller_CIV_F.p3d
UAV_controller_CSAT_F.p3d
UAV_controller_F.p3d
outer ocean
Terms and conditions do not supercede law.
If I sign a contract with you, regardless of where I am, it is assumed that the law of the location in which it was signed takes precedence.
For example with KA weapons, the developer behind it was able to win the DMCA due to his location
rustic copper
And copyright is one of the best protected things in international law... So there's no way to get around that, no matter how hard someone tries...
outer ocean
Valve operates in China under the laws of China, not the United States.
A license or terms of use, or eula, cannot supercede law, and it is just that, a license to use that service.
Breaching a license itself is not an illegal act.
the KA dev won a counter-dmca
faint nacelle
against who?
dull moon
in fact, he never got sued by anybody he stole from (other game companies)
faint nacelle
its possible no appropriate party ever made a dmca
outer ocean
didn't realise that it had to go before the supreme court
faint nacelle
Im also ashamed that such behaviour goes accepeted and even encouraged in this world.
spare osprey
My post/question above is in reference to BI IP so I don't want it to get lost.
outer ocean
encouraged?
faint nacelle
@spare osprey Id wager not yeah
and youre right this is #other_ip_topics stuff
but report it to BIs email on the channel topic
spare osprey
Wilco thanks
spare osprey
Email to BIs sent
opaque mauve
bistudioL?
soft egret
olol
scarlet patrol
https://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/20/1740008431595211740/
the two admins are Lord and Aris
should I use the email above to flag them?
brisk ember
Idunno, is paying someone for their time to do a certain thing with ArmA illegal?
there's no shortage of people that pay others to create their mission because they either lack the skill or time to do it themselves
brisk ember
ah rgr
low pebble
few guys on there are on this discord as well
soft egret
You are entitled to use the Program for your own use, but you are not entitled to:
Exploit the Program or any of its parts for any commercial purpose including, but not limited to, [...]
brisk ember
rgr, so people that pay mission makers ought to be asked to read the EULA?
fossil basalt
Asked is not the word I would have used
brisk ember
euphemism
halcyon gull
woah why is there a whole thing on here for ip rights violations
soft egret
Because there are too many people who are psychologically unable to read rules or license agreements that they already accepted to follow
halcyon gull
was there a bunch of drama about that or?
brisk ember
it's been here from the very beginning
scarlet patrol
so where should I go to report these people? @soft egret and @fossil basalt ?
halcyon gull
Is it just another name for reporting cheaters?
brisk ember
no, not really
soft egret
email above I guess
fossil basalt
Yes, I would also send the same email to monetisation as well (not sure of their email atm)
soft egret
Cheating doesn't potentially get you to court
unless youre cheating in fortnite
halcyon gull
I don't understand how people are breaking IP laws in relation to arma 3 is my thing.
fossil basalt
Read the EULA
soft egret
people are stealing other peoples stuff. Thats how they're doing it
fossil basalt
And illegally monetising
brisk ember
unless youre cheating in fortnite
Playing fortnite*
lone basin
I don't understand how people are breaking IP laws in relation to arma 3 is my thing.
There's many many many way to break IP laws. Ripping model from BI and selling them for eg
brisk ember
like the guy that ripped one of the marksmen rifles and ported it to Fallout 4