the best part is, Colt lost their trademark for the M4 when they tried to enforce it on companies cloning the AR-15 platform...
#ip_rights_violations
ebon sand
it's perfectly legal for anyone to make an actual 1:1 copy of one, and sell it as a genuine M4, name and all
paper prawn
And let's not forget that to enforce copywrite you have to have enforced copywrite or you lose your rights to do so...
ebon sand
you couldn't call it a Colt M4, but just M4 is perfectly fine
willow star
No thats only true for trademarks @paper prawn
paper prawn
Oh... my misunderstanding. Thanks for the clarification
But in this case the M4A1 would be a trademark... and it has not been enforced, so...
mint edge
is this taking place in the rhs comments section? which one
paper prawn
RHSUSAF
paper prawn
Chris... man... they do not like you: "Audio coustoms who are you even? You dont know English, you sound 15, get out... You are attacking me and my unit on other areas, not just his mod file. Get out."
LOL
dull moon
nobody likes me, for good reasons
tears of joy looking at his long list of filed DMCAs
paper prawn
"Man you gonna really throw me in jail and make your mod and RHS look bad... Nice harassment"... he says after harassing Red Hammer Studios with a fake DCMA
willow star
Someone should do a writeup on this drama when it's over and post it to reddit and BIF as a cautionary tale for idiots
paper prawn
Personally, doing so to the little idiot would not make any difference to my like of RHS (or CUP if the CUP Team have to do the same)
dull moon
you know what this behavior reminds me of?
those little treble rats like chiwawas or what they are called... much anger and self confidence as long as they are on their moms arm and on a leash. once put down on the ground and freed from the leash.... silence
paper prawn
No, just kids... after all, I agree... anyone who says this: "Also, anyone who calls someone else kid on the internet is usually about 15 themselves. I was kicking in doors in Fallujah back in 04' while you were still probably sitting in your parent's basement." is themselves living in their mom's basement...
Don't think that there was a Fallujah mod until ARMA2 iirc 😉
paper prawn
Don't remember it in OFP back then
soft egret
Does someone keep screenshots of all the comments for future?
For when they will get deleted. So that we can look back at it if we need something to laugh
dull moon
to create a new meme maybe?
like...
"dude, read the damn tutorial and do EXACTLY what is written there. if you don't, and still ask dumb questions, i'll kick in your door, like back in '04"
paper prawn
I'm going after the guy on that... reckon he's a Walt
dull moon
the doorkicker?
paper prawn
Yep
dull moon
maybe he really served there... cleaning latrines and peeling potatoes
paper prawn
LOL... doubt it. I know some lads from back then, and like you said, they don't talk like that
soft egret
Considering he's just taking on the names of real Soldiers that were actually in war.
Before he left his old group (Gee I wonder why he left it..) the 101st Airborne Division.. His name was
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Malarkey
Now
https://thefallen.militarytimes.com/army-spc-jeremiah-c-hughes/3473315
Also interesting how he got degraded if you look at his steam name history. He got degraded from Sgt to Pvt.
dull moon
uhm... i lost it
no shit dude...
lol... talking of beeing a vet and using a dead soldiers name
soft egret
2 dead soldiers names. One died in War. Other veteran.
paper prawn
Scum
dull moon
disgraceful
2nd Bn 7th Cav during the second battle of Fallujah. I sleep warmly with my fucking DD-214 after ETSing in 08.
@paper prawn
some ammo
paper prawn
And the name he takes now is a soldier who died in Iraq
dull moon
there is one guy in here who was there, but i'm not so sure when and if we should tag him...
tight copper
I mean Prince is my last name... soooo
paper prawn
I thought you were cosa nostra @tight copper
tight copper
*NL Coast Guard
You nearly got it right,
Don is not my first name but Prince definedly is my last name...
paper prawn
Cool. Not a fan of internet anonymity which is why I use my real name
paper prawn
Lol
dull moon
?
tight copper
you aint hiding your name
dull moon
It is... there are plenty in here who also would appear on the sheme, but don't act like pricks
paper prawn
Oh come off it Chris... we all know that your real name is Herman Schweizkoff... We don't blame you for the pseudonym
brisk ember
can't the RHS guys just block the downy from continuing his commenting?
dull moon
I'M HEISENBERG
winged vapor
no we cant unforunately
brisk ember
really? Kimi did that to me after I questioned his mod dependencie s:P
winged vapor
I wonder, that brigade that dude is talking about. I know the 7th Cavalry was there for the first battle of fallujah
but I dont think it was there for the second
dull moon
@brisk ember
Just deleting the comments, not blocking...
dull moon
For real?
dull moon
Strange
dull moon
It's evidence tho
dull moon
A possible steam ban for spam
ebon sand
perjury
soft egret
A ban from BI forums and Discord for life. And a entry on my personal blacklist
brisk ember
purgatory
brisk ember
why Discord? @soft egret
soft egret
Arma Discord I mean
brisk ember
ohhh
tight copper
He needs to be banned from arma
brisk ember
but if I understand correctly, he's just throwing a fit over a legitimate DMCA?
tight copper
No
brisk ember
the legit DMCA being on his unit's upload
tight copper
oh I guess
soft egret
Over two legitimate DMCA's. And he's they are throwing a really huge fit also containing a federal crime
dull moon
this wilson guy seems to be shitting his pants
soft egret
STOP NOW!!! 1,337 Comments
tight copper
Well its not every day you get the wrath of the entire arma communty over you
brisk ember
if he says I'm a confirmed hacker, can I make threats like I am one? 🤔
tight copper
wanna get banned here and on the forums?
brisk ember
heh good point
paper prawn
If he says you are a confirmed hacker and you are not then you can always sue for defamation 😉
brisk ember
well "confirmed" by a collective on the COD games MW2, BO and MW3
paper prawn
And discovery will tell whether he really is a vet
brisk ember
I'm not sure why people really care so much about someone being a veteran
paper prawn
It's when someone who claims to be, isn't... walting
tight copper
Well you got to respect those serving, especially those who had wartime
dull moon
but... but... but... i am a real vet.... of the meme wars
tight copper
but some overdo it royaly
paper prawn
Especially when they use it to try and shut down a conversation
safe arrow
A vet like him will surely play with a bunch of 15 year olds... sure. And not be able to keep them under controll...
paper prawn
I'm a veteran of the USENET Flame Wars... so you kids can crawl back in your basements (and I actually am!)
brisk ember
I don't think you should respect someone purely on the fact of the "serving member"-thing. Personality is what defines it for me tbh. Not really gonna respect a vet with a rotten personality
dull moon
oh, you playing the torrent wars card?
i top it with the limewire battles
paper prawn
Ah... Limewire... I loved limewire...Vuse just did not do it for me
winged vapor
just wondering. isnt pretending that you're a soldier in the US also a crime?
paper prawn
Not all vets deserve respect... it depends on who they are. But someone looking for respect or validation through stealing the honour of veterans who did their duty are scumbags!
dull moon
not sure
winged vapor
it certainly is in germany, could even call the police for that hehe
brisk ember
internet isn't the US though
paper prawn
Yes, it is a crime in the US and in the UK
heavy moon
Report him to that stolen valour youtube channel, we might get a video out of it.
prisma scaffold
And this is why I have a gripe with both sides of the community :\
paper prawn
Oh... struck down by the stupid Supreme Court...
winged vapor
Role playing is fine. But pretending is something else
paper prawn
Apparently the First Amendment allows you to pretend that you are a combat veteran for monetary reward
winged vapor
Lol impedes freedom of speech... Totally us hahaha
paper prawn
But that's why you have the Stolen Valor group and the Walt channel on the ARRSE forums
prisma scaffold
Just let Valve, RHS, and the A1 guys finish their dispute. Trolling and judgment goes both ways.
dull moon
if i get into a fist fight, am i also a "combat vet"?
technically it is combat...
¯_(ツ)_/¯
paper prawn
If so then I have a few Purple Hearts since I came to the US
dull moon
😂
heavy moon
its is hardly took part in an operation during an act of war though chris 😃
tight copper
I am fine with that, aslong as I can use the seccond one to revoke that first one of that pretend to be vet
paper prawn
And that guy is claiming to be 2nd Bn, 7th Cav during the Second Battle of Fallujah... they were there. I do not think he was
brisk ember
isn't that stuff publicly available...?
paper prawn
If he gives his DD214 number then it is easily checked
scenic swallow
He's a crybaby who isn't supported by RHS, and some of the devs messaged us saying he's caused problems in the past.
@dull moon
paper prawn
OMFG
merry kestrel
wut
mint edge
r0fl, that guy responded im in love
he still doesnt know
i wonder if they use any old desert maps from arma 2 for their team to roleplay on
dull moon
he's caused problems in the past
well, to be fair.... i actually did. i had a not so small part on last april fools gag RHS and CUP did
😄
paper prawn
Yeah... let me add a "Fuck you" on that one!!!
paper prawn
It was only funny in retrospect... I came in my pants when I read that message!
dull moon
you talking april fools?
paper prawn
Yes, ofc
tight copper
Yeh fuck you
dull moon
haha
tight copper
😂
dull moon
was a good one, wasn't it?
paper prawn
Yes.... in retrospect...
dull moon
like we said back then, history is not written yet. we still got many years of arma and the francise ahead. who knows what will happen
never say never
paper prawn
Maybe the SCUM port 😉
tight copper
some canedian cunt kinda molested that line
it now is dirty
but well see what arma 4 got in store I guess
new game may solve a lot of differences I guess
paper prawn
Hopefully
dull moon
dream (sleep) is for the weak
scenic swallow
Puhleaese
paper prawn
I day dream...
merry kestrel
the whole DMCA thing
paper prawn
... about Steam
scenic swallow
I saw that april fools joke and saw the date
dull moon
hopefully not wet
low tapir
This was some of the best reading ive had in a long time 😂
merry kestrel
I dont know what to think of it
if what they are saying is true
then I dont know
but if its not
and they are lying about it by trying to guilt the RHS team to drop it
brisk ember
why would RHS even consider their bullshit
paper prawn
They are lying about it... no question. Trying to guilt people out... that's what kids do nowadays I'm afraid
brisk ember
more likely the 1stAD will be universally despised by every unit in existence than RHS having to drop their assets
scenic swallow
Lmfao "if you really take this kid to court itll be reported on and everyone will hate rhs"
Lolwut
Nah
People need to be held accountable for their actions
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
prisma scaffold
You know all this could of been de-escalated if people didn't feel the need to add to the shit show.
low tapir
16 or not he broke the law and is shitting himself now
scenic swallow
Doubtful
dull moon
if that dude is 16, and only IF that would actually go to court (what i doubt), the only thing he'd get is a slap on the hands and mamas sandals on the neck
and mama gonna pay for it all tho
paper prawn
Also... fucking n00bs... their team name should be 1AD not 1stAD... I mean, now they have my goat up
brisk ember
would be fun if the guy gets banned from the 1stAD for defaming the unit
tight copper
Ooh that reminds me
I need to listen to sinead o'connors mother again
the berlin version
merry kestrel
sorry for my lack of knowledge, but who is Audiocustoms? no disrespect to him, just cant place the name
dull moon
@prisma scaffold
you got a point there no doubt, but i'm not actually known for deescalation...
paper prawn
A commie hippy
brisk ember
the CUP man
merry kestrel
oh nvm
tight copper
Yeh who are you?
merry kestrel
Chris Lutz literally has it in his name
prisma scaffold
It's trolling both ways, and it irritates me.
merry kestrel
sry
prisma scaffold
This should be between RHS, the group, and Valve. Who cares if one their members had a tantrum.
brisk ember
it's not about one of their members. All people will hear is 1stAD DMCAd RHS
dull moon
this could also be publicity...
brisk ember
and the name is ruined instantly
paper prawn
What if Steam removed the mod?
prisma scaffold
I just don't get why it's ok to troll some one that is wrong, but by god. If one of those members came in here to defend their position, slam the ban hammer.
paper prawn
Bohemia's reps decide here when to ban... not us
dull moon
RHS will provide proof that this DMCA claim was false positive, revenge for some kids shit and just idiotic, also provide proof that they actually are the rights holder, case closed (for the DMCA)
@paper prawn
prisma scaffold
and then it will be done, and doesn't require us to make personal attacks on the unit.
brisk ember
no
but when word gets out about it
people forget about just one member
and it turns into 1stAD
dull moon
@prisma scaffold
you are right, there would have been other ways to solve all this. but what we have now is the most entertaining way. sad, but true
paper prawn
So what, @prisma scaffold We're supposed to just sit idly while RHSUSAF's comment thread is filled with their shit with no response. Bear in mind that that thread is legal evidence at this point
They actually did their buddy no favours by coming on there
prisma scaffold
And that requires you to stoop to their level of comments?
dull moon
@paper prawn
sit idly while...
uhmmmm... that's what i normally do with comments on CUP workshop... ignore (delete) them 😂
tight copper
Imma never gonna upload mods to the workshop... screw all this
Im gonna keep stuff local
dull moon
it's not that bad actually @tight copper
paper prawn
I didn't stoop to there level. Did call out the guy who claimed to be in Fallujah for sure
tight copper
I got the russian government in my neck to on the mod I am building
They supplied me drawings after all
dull moon
delicate 😄
paper prawn
I'm actually going back through the comments and I'm not seeing exactly where, until hours later, the respondents from here were trolling them...
paper prawn
After a DCMA and pages of their stuff. Wannabe troll. If you did not serve the forces of Good in the USENET Wars you are a child
tight copper
Im eeeh, a veteran in eeeeh, well browsing the internet and lets call it exersizing
paper prawn
Good = UNIX
dull moon
doesn't like metallica since the put down my beloved napster
See, i even was with the napster clashes. Who's the child now 😄
midnight crystal
dull moon
is that a seroius question?
fossil basalt
Ahem
scenic swallow
scatters
fossil basalt
Yes
tight copper
ohai FM
Team OT ffing SCATTER
paper prawn
Runs like Hell before the bouncer can catch him
hallow lark
I don't even think RHS will be asked for proof of anything. When desolationredux got DMCA'd, valve requested more evidence from the reporting party as there wasn't sufficient proof and the whole thing got dropped.
echo orchid
please try and contain yourself as much as you can. i will clean up that thread once the entire thing is sorted, just so you don't get your tits up for no reason
paper prawn
👌
manic lark
take the DMCA as far as possible to show its not a joke
could care less if some entitled annoying kid gets in a lot of trouble with his parents
I'd settle for a steam ban though
😉
sonic blade
I find this whole shebang to be quite interesting. We've fought the life people for a good while, and money seems to be the reason for much of their actions. But this? Why have the obvious culprits in this case decided to go ballistic over what quite clearly is something they have zero rights to?
Or do i expect too much of milsim communities?
winged vapor
well I'd be cautios calling this 1st AD anything like MilSim
sonic blade
Okay, I guess at least part of my confusion is due to working with more organised groups and hardly seeing anything but the good parts on eg. youtube.
I'm still curious about their motive, a counterclaim is really not a good idea, and Valve clearly states the prerequisites for filing DMCA's too 🤔
grand oyster
@dull moon One for you
https://www.battlemetrics.com/servers/arma3/2491099
https://majormittens.co.uk/Screenshots/20180828092637_1.jpg
Base kits in SS for $5/10/x/x
CUP on a monetising server
https://thegameyard.enjin.com/
Also isn't on the approved monetizing list obviously
steep quiver
I find it amazing that some teenagers(ish) decided to go against against a mod team that actually has lawyers available
burnt oak
I highly doubt they know this.
steep quiver
🤷 play tsupid games, win stupid prizes
winged vapor
you'd be suprised how stupid are
just a couple of days ago watched a vid where I guy escaped a bad car accident without a scratch, just to try to get hold of one of the police officers guns who were around... take a guess where that guy ended up
mint edge
raging in a prisons comments section about how unfair laws are..?
safe arrow
Might be interesting for you @echo orchid They guy who did the DMCA against RHS https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/219072-an-apology-to-rhs/
echo orchid
i know, it wasn't his idea to post on BIF, it is part of my agreement with him in order to not waste more time and drag him to court
narrow topaz
Life lesson: Know the ramifications of your actions before you decide to act like a fool.
mint edge
I love people who don't consider consequences... holy shit
prisma scaffold
The whole situation was petty and blown out of the water. Between them and people from here trolling.
drifting scaffold
Antagonizing people is not a good idea
safe arrow
And one should not forget about the background where all this came from. The counter-trolling from here was not okay sure. But you cant just put both sides on the same level and just take a look at the trolling. As one part not only once but twice violated steam licenses (and where DMCAed by RHS and TFAR). And the not just stopped there but put a false DMCA against RHS out of anger or pure stupidity and then started a flamewar.
Its hard to compare only the trolling in the comments and leaving all that aside.
prisma scaffold
Yea you do, because if that crap was in this discord I would of hoped both sides would be kicked for it. It’s about the principle of being the better person.
mint edge
it doesnt honestly matter who is the "better person" if the "better person" is violating international copyright law and files a false dmca takedown lol...
I mean if the argument turns into pure degeneracy and hate then it should be stopped but it's natural to be annoyed and angry in the situation >.<
there was some poop throwing but I don't think it got out of hand
vernal thunder
alright gandhi
soft egret
Most messages I saw from us was either "ha you're lying. Get out of here" or "You don't understand. Can't you read?!"
And from theirs was "You shitbag" "I'm gonna take you down you idiot"
I don't really see trolling from our side. Atleast not in the steam comments
fossil basalt
@prisma scaffold It’s about the principle of being the better person. It called the rule of law. If you steal someone's work or make an illegal false DMCA, suffer the ramifications.
vale steeple
Being a better person is subjective. It's either you are breaking IP laws or you're not. No in betweens.
soft egret
I know there was something going on considering Taviana in A3.
Does anyone know what the situation is about running A3 Taviana on a Monetized server?
I think I got a server here that's running 100% mods without permission.
CUP terrains, CUP weapons, Taviana, TFAR.
They already have to remove CUP Weapons.
prisma scaffold
@fossil basalt would you tolerate the flame war if it was on this discord? Or would you tell people to shut it and let the people actually involved in the issue resolve it? I’m not disagreeing with any of The verdicts regarding the DMCA. I’m annoyed at the mob mentality allowing unneeded behavior.
soft egret
Flaming is against #rules so no.
But talking about how people flame elsewhere doesn't apply I'd say
prisma scaffold
It was still on the A3 workshop. As far as I’m concerned that is still a BI domain.
paper prawn
@soft egret Afaik Martin does not allow A3 to be ported to ARMA3... he DCMAed every one I've seen... So you are not supposed to run it whether it is monetized or not
soft egret
The flame and bullshit is just not managable
prisma scaffold
And that magically excuses people to becoming trolls outside this community?
soft egret
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1333620906 This one has been up for quite a long time
@prisma scaffold Also BI staff cannot moderate comments on other peoples workshop uploads.
So it doesn't make sense to put up moderation rules for things you can't even moderate
Yes sure.. You can troll wherever you want about whatever you want.
I can just create a "Arma 3 trolling" forum right now.. And there's nothing BI moderators could do about it.
paper prawn
Interesting... Maybe he missed that one. If it is allowed then I might use it. Unmonetized of course 😃
prisma scaffold
It’s called policing yourself. Instead of giving the A3 modding community a bad rep. But this is getting off topic.
paper prawn
Tavi anyway is distributed on a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License. Here is Martin's response to a monetized server: https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/134514-my-work-is-being-illegally-sold-on-world-zombieru/
manic lark
That kid is super lucky the people in charge of RHSs shit are actually decent people and not petty assholes like me
Would have made that kid an example
@echo orchid you’re too nice 😉
mint edge
@paper prawn that is before he went full ape and stopped caring and went with origins to milk people for money
paper prawn
Yes, I noticed that...
inland scarab
That kid a few days ago, the Wilson dude lost his shot on me because I used B.B. code for a recruitment post on steam forums that my previous unit NCOIC had copied from me, and started a flame war and continued to spam me and start shit even after I provided dates and original use. Can’t fix stupid :).
paper prawn
If that Tavi A3 map stays up for much longer I may use it for a server
safe arrow
Did you try to reach Martin on the forum? That should be the first thing to do, to be fair. Cause i remember that one or two other version got removed from steam half a year ago or something. That could only be done by him.
paper prawn
I remember that... that map was not uploaded by me... and I don't use it (yet).
soft egret
His forum account hasn't been active for too long
low tapir
He was last on the forums in 2016.
faint nacelle
hes on discord isnt he..
soft egret
I can't find him.. But while searching I found a post from me from a couple months ago.. And it looks like that group recently re-uploaded their modpack that was DMCA'ed back then 😄
olive sparrow
Taviana should not be used in arma 3, afaik iirc the work was withdrawn and there now exists no license or permission to use it in arma. Think im recalling it correctly.
grand oyster
From what I've heard and seen, I'd say thats true
soft egret
Btw that group that I asked for. Didn't know they need permission for anything. So they don't have any permission for Taviana
vast notch
I was in the discussion a few years ago with @stark mulch and a few others, where Martin said he doesn't want anyone to host Taviana on Arma 3 from that day on. Maca may have transcripts of it
soft egret
I've also read such things on BIF and other places
He was here just in april trying to get help getting rid of a illegal port
Well I guess Taviana Life has to get rid of Taviana then...
Guess they'll have to play Taviana Life on Tanoa.. 😄
vast notch
Unless they change to Arma 2 and remove monetization 😄
soft egret
Brings up a question.. I know porting and stuff is not allowed. But what about just loading the unmodified Arma 2 mod in A3?
vast notch
Martin's words were, something along the lines of "I don't want anyone running Taviana on Arma 3" so would be against his wishes, even if not against license.
It was because of the new game Pandemik: The Origins and having the map solely on there
prisma scaffold
Umm, is that even allowed? I'm pretty sure BI assets exist on that map
In terms of porting it to another game.
soft egret
No.
But I guess he just remade stuff.. Just the general map layout is supposed to be only for that game
paper prawn
The thread I posted above where Martin complained about a monetized server running Taviana on A2 was shut down by BI because people were accusing him of breaking BI's EULA btw... Whether he is or was is for someone more knowledgeable to answer
heavy moon
That doesn't detract from the fact that the IP/Taviani is his, therefore he can licence his content however he see's fit. Any BI content used would come under BI's licence.
paper prawn
Agree completely. Was just responding to Sabre One's question...
paper prawn
Ofc, like DayZ Mod, did all the other contributors get compensated like the guy who sold out to a game company... always the question in my mind
prisma scaffold
I guess it should be more like..how much did you contribute.
Does a single page of code vs 1000's justify royalties? ect
paper prawn
Or the person who designed all the infected spawning and behaviour in DayZ mod... I actually do assume that they got compensated... But then, we would all be playing a pretty good DayZ in ARMA3 in other circumstances
Or the people who did the other mods that made DayZ Mod the success it was rather than a flash in the pan
When it comes to DayZ Mod on ARMA3 Bohemia have no problem in enforcing a mod's IP rights...
As opposed to their support for ARMA3 mod devs, the extent of which is pretty clear on this channel
prisma scaffold
The reality of the question usually involves, were is the money at.
And they honestly are allowed to care or not, because all these mods are made from their platform/tools. I don't remember the full agreement, but in Warcraft 3, you have to accept that you agree that anything made on the map editor built into the game is property of Blizzards first, then you second.
Mincraft has a similar agreement. Their logic is that development of the basegame shouldn't be halted or conflict with a mod. Matter of fact things like sticky pistons I believe were originally conceived by mods.
As far as I know BI is one if not the only company that has even created legal licenses for modders.
soft egret
Wow.. People are thanking me for causing this RHS chaos because they have so much fun reading about it :D
Also BI just processed all my 34 monetized server reports from Friday..
But only about 3 came forward and requested permission so far.
Guess the others don't want to be monetized anymore
mint edge
^ "Guess the others don't want to be monetized anymore" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
go undercover and pm the server owners to buy stuff on their server and see what happens
dull moon
Selling mods is a nono, but what about selling a monetization license?
(serious question)
Technically, the mod itself is not sold, just the permission to use it on monetized servers. Non monetized serves have a free license...
paper prawn
But you are completely able to create your own monetized servers or join with someone who'd share the profits with you as coowners
narrow topaz
"You can use my mod if you make me a 10% "owner""
paper prawn
Bizarrely the two do not necessarily go together @echo orchid
I'm sure you could though 😏
dull moon
@paper prawn
It's not that i want a monetized server and make a winning, what i have in mind is to create a hurdle for others to monetize my creation and still get something out of it.
But would it still be commercial if the license income is donated to a charity?
That would be non-profit i guess
paper prawn
Under BI's license I assume so... but you could create a monetized server with permission from CUP and give all the money to charity... but then you are competing with us server owners 😉
So you'd need to do a bit of work... ah, who am I kidding, most server owners just throw shit up and still get players and money... 😦
faint nacelle
but isnt making a mod and running a monetized server a commercial use?
life mods do that all the time
paper prawn
No... they are using other people's mods... nothing says that you cannot be a server owner and a mod dev. Again though... you have to build a server people want to play on...
faint nacelle
well at least some of them do their own development
as in their own addons
so same stuff
and BI allows that
soft egret
BI's community monetization approval is the only exception for "you cannot monetize mods" afaik
paper prawn
^
faint nacelle
well basically anyone can monetize their mod through that program
just have to run the only server that is allowed to monetize it
paper prawn
That was my point
prisma scaffold
All our servers, say for Ark has one of my own community mod.
So technically I'm doing that, even though all the content is silly specific to our mission framework Like Unit types built for PvE.
@dull moon I personally would support the idea that your team gets a cut for monetization rights.
It benefits both parties, and is a nice middle ground for the root cause of all this.
glad sparrow
pliant oar
@glad sparrow please report also to the email in this channel description
glad sparrow
Wilco
soft egret
350 🤦
prisma scaffold
Yea, I tried reporting that.
They acted like I was filing a DMCA or something, and asked for source files and such. All I said was it was from A3, and gave them numerous links showing the Apex expansion.
It was discussed in this discord and I thought some one said they would report it to BI. Guess not.
fossil basalt
Too many forget the email to infringements@bistudio.com part of this channel.
discuss there violations before sending email to infringements@bistudio.com , Arma 3 EULA : https://www.bistudio.com/community/licenses/arma3-end-user-license
mint edge
let bi protect itself, just make them aware of it
faint nacelle
Wouldnt world be nice place if we all protected each other.
mint edge
utopian wet dream
snow bloom
Would I be right in saying this picture has retextured RHS ACUs? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1499605030
jade karma
manic lark
a retexture of the RHS ACU though?
carmine folio
I don’t remember
manic lark
dont use vsm its garbage
carmine folio
It’s not vsm
manic lark
VSM encompasses basically all of his mods at this point
tight copper
@faint nacelle that depends, if we all go on a witchhunt to organise a public hanging for that guy that farted in the corner then no...
😃
frail flint
@tight copper .... context definitely needed on that one
also farting in the corner is the most civilised option
tight copper
Wouldnt world be nice place if we all protected each other.```the farter would in this case be the one everyone needed protection from
but this channel is not for such discussion
merry kestrel
@echo orchid sorry to bother you, but withSix/ModDB has uploaded RHS up on ModDB https://www.moddb.com/games/arma-3/addons/rhs-armed-forces-of-the-russian-federation
also a ton of other mods aswell
like Enhanced Movement etc.
soft egret
🤦
How can one be so retarded... @heavy moon would you look at that 😄
You've seen it coming already
heavy moon
yep, they are trying to automate the addition of a library of arma content that was added to a now dead platform without many of the authors permissions, with no respect to that contents' licences. by withSIX uploading that content to moddb they are accepting moddb's sub-licence on that content without the authors permission as well as breaking moddb's ToS by the simple act of uploading content they do not own or have rights to.
TLDR: withSIX should never have proceeded in doing this without validating and contacting each mod's IP owners .
So here you have another shitstorm of IP rights outside the workshop.
soft egret
@karmic trout May you wanna fix that?
heavy moon
I already contacted moddb with a C&D to remove all my content from there as it was uploaded without my permission, to an account I have no control over.
south pelican
Are withSix and ModBD the same network/group or something? I didn’t even know ModDB did Arma stuff.
soft egret
withSix shut down.. and "donated" all their mods to ModDB
faint nacelle
the sentiment behind it is nice. Preserving mods and all that. But the licenses should be respected regardless.
mint edge
preserving content which is accessible elsewhere by the original author 👍
mint edge
lucky for me my mods are somewhat obscure so they may not reupload them xd
heavy moon
what they are doing is essentially the same as if anyone else attempted to upload their arma mods folder to moddb or steam - without asking any of the authors for permission, the only difference here is the platform they are reuploading to.
mint edge
well moddb usually complies with the ip rights holder last time I had dealings
big usually tho
paper prawn
Took Bohemia a while to get them to remove that STALKER game mod that was using DayZ assets that I reported to BI for you Mike... I checked last week or the week before and it was still there, now gone
mint edge
odds are it was bi legal taking their time or having a lot of shit to deal with
who knows
good for them
soft egret
Well monetization department has a lot of shit to deal with definetly 😄
paper prawn
True dat
coral tendon
Is it against BI's rules or whatever to have a mod hard code in players uid's so they would have to buy a new Arma account to play it's mod?
narrow topaz
I don't see why it would be.
coral tendon
What if they weren't cheaters or thieves? Just personal hatred?
narrow topaz
It doesn't violate any TOS, rules, etc
You can prohibit anyone from using anything you make or host without reason
coral tendon
Interesting.
olive sparrow
really simple to do, and very effective at dealing with persistent death threats from "special fans on the internet"
paper prawn
Seriously... is that a thing in ARMA modding? Can imagine it is, but fuck!
PS: Great mod mate, great, great mod!!!
manic lark
Was thinking of something similar a while ago
Would be hard to do it in a way that they couldnt circumvent with a little effort
carmine folio
Grey area for you guys, but I worked and gambled with cheats for counter strike and such. They did the exact same thing.
They took your hardware ID basically which allowed you to use the cheat and if you either didn't pay, you pissed off the devs, got banned, or just did something stupid they'd comment out your hwid which blocked you access from the cheat.
It's a great system, but it's easy to bypass if not done correctly and effectively.
paper prawn
Work with infiSTAR maybe? Re: global bans... pretty effective mechanism that they have...
soft egret
I'd like to ban players with cracked Arma from using TFAR... But I don't think the community would like me just banning people because I feel like it...
echo orchid
banning people from using a certain MOD because the person is a retard
like that wanker than DMCA RHS just for fun ??
any day my man
especially since Steam didn't take any sort of action towards him
just a simple example
torpid bane
I loved that guys excuses, claiming to be the victim because now people are just making fun of him and how dare they make fun of him, he's just a little autistic (sic) teenager.
echo orchid
the guy is a complete waste
copper geyser
Do people even crack arma?
soft egret
apparently..
Or it's just one guy who shares his copy of Arma with hundreds of people 🤔 I mean.. could be... but....
soft egret
I can find you that steamID that's used by hundreds of players. I got that soooomewhere.
copper geyser
I can't even think of a decent way to detect it other than like modified steam dlls
Sure
Ima get out of bed and have a look. Brb
delicate ember
You always can blpck server names
copper geyser
That's not a good method
delicate ember
My addons shuts mission down if sny word "life or RP" is in it or i block them manually and put sneaky update with bugfixes
copper geyser
Vendetta against life servers?
soft egret
just "RP"? What about all these milsim communities with Corps in their name? like mine?
copper geyser
On what
copper geyser
I'm lost
delicate ember
Basicly on my addons im running something like
copper geyser
You know that's easy to spoof right
snow bloom
The problem is, milsim often gets coupled with life communities but there is a big different. Milsim “usually” has a touch more class than life communities
delicate ember
I know
copper geyser
Life has more population
delicate ember
Im leading milsim
soft egret
"a touch more" 😄
delicate ember
I remeber a guy who left us saying we were cancer but he still had acces to our files, i've updated them like 1 day before first op in unit he created because i heard rumors about using our modpack not even edited... his mission was never played
copper geyser
@soft egret im up, hit me with that id
soft egret
For unit stuff I just go for custom encryption. Arma can only read our stuff if Arma is launched with our launcher. We had a partner group once take our music pack without asking.. They weren't partner group for long
delicate ember
But its not working that good now because i saw someone saying that ebo is not allowed so i had to redo it and ofuscate, sadly its easy to crack
soft egret
Yeah we are not using ebo. we have our custom encryption
delicate ember
@soft egret can you share your system?
soft egret
no ^^
delicate ember
Sadmen
copper geyser
so like for example, a new project im working on has little code in the mod, just streams it all from a TCP pipe
ip whitelisting etc
seams best way to go imo
delicate ember
Yea sadly im not that advanced with coding so i have to stay with my code until i figure out something
drifting scaffold
This is a really grey area
prisma scaffold
If you have a script in a add on that shuts down missions based on keywords. I’m pretty sure that could be considered malicious software. Particularly if it’s undocumented.
soft egret
"malicious software" is usually stuff that actually hurts someone
If the author doesn't want you to be playing his mission. Then you have no right to do it
prisma scaffold
It’s a feature that limits a vanilla feature. Even if it’s just mission naming. I doubt BI would agree to that.
If you want to pick and choose who uses your mod. Don’t upload it publicly. Simple as that.
soft egret
To our conversation from yesterday 76561197960267366 is a cracked Steam userID. If you see that then it's not a legit bought game.
olive sparrow
any day my man @echo orchid if you'd like my code for that, just send me a PM.
burnt oak
well, this sounds fishy as fuck
https://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/9dvdtg/any_free_program_similar_to_mikeros_move_folder/
safe arrow
Since ebo-files are BI-only and noone may use/create them, yes it sounds fishy
soft egret
Just some life server idiot
keen trout
lol
manic lark
Sent you a PM @olive sparrow
olive sparrow
Seen
soft egret
Arma 3 pants inside Arma 3... Might be.. Sounds normal
rapid wagon
Well
The upper part isnt arma 3
Though I don't know how this made but it seems like the A3 model was edited
soft egret
Maybe it was the uniform model from Arma samples?
rapid wagon
I guess
manic lark
They aren’t in samples
They just do this because they already have retextures for the A3 stuff and want to use it with their clothing for items they can’t retexture
Probably got the model off of p3dm.ru
faint nacelle
🙈
rapid wagon
Well then it's maybe not a great idea to post stolen stuff in #screenshots_arma
soft egret
https://discordapp.com/channels/105462288051380224/329978448938532868/487844780496257045
@next needlepeek.. oh.. apparently he got removed already.
he already got banned once for violating #screenshots_arma rules
pliant oar
watching Shroud playing COD:BO4 BR something , in background Lirik screaming he got DCMA suspended on twitch ... 
{just irony note how bad it become when automated stuff reach STEAM}
heady stump
Lol
pliant oar
but it would be nice to have automated DMCA bans for stolen workshop stuff already on workshop 🤤
wild pollen
The DMCA was 100% false and hes already unbanned fyi
paper prawn
What's the story on that @wild pollen ? Can't be bothered to google it...
wild pollen
UEFA false DMCA'd him while he was streaming. Legally twitch has to take action right away without giving him a chance to appeal before banning him.
prisma scaffold
Twitch actually doesn't have to take action right away. They just choose to with automation. Which IMO is a pretty big open for abuse.
fossil basalt
I'd take immediate automated bans over manual any day of the week.
prisma scaffold
So basically have the RHS crew banned over a false DMCA 😛
Despite laws, DMCA take downs are still more then rife for abuse with little to no legal consequences. One the first issues cropped up back when the DMCA was put into law was big companies abusing it and forcing smaller competitors to constantly fight them off, taking the penalty fees and locking up them by forcing them to defend their IP all the time.
I would be more happy if Twitch simply took down the offending content for a dispute. Then outright ban people over it.
soft egret
False DMCA claims are a crime though.
So abusing them is a really huge problem for yourself. So I guess companies like twitch assume noone will missuse it.
And if they take the streamer down immediatly. The streamer can also sue the guy who brought up the false DMCA claim, in addition to his charges for the false claim
Giving idiots a even bigger kick in the butt
prisma scaffold
You have to prove all of that in court though.
One stipulation for example, is the content-creator has to consider "fair-use" before submitting a DMCA on their content. As decided in one the circuit courts. If they fail to prove that, it's considered a false-DMCA.
Of course, that is more legal arguments in courts, rather through our much simplified reporting system through Steam.
Twitch and Steam have some legal protections granted to them by basically playing dumb, and complying with any DMCA request. I'm fine with say automated take downs, as in the content just gets taken down. But user bans? I think thats its own problem.
fossil basalt
I don't have to take anyone to court to remove them from this platform, much in the way that Twitch doesn't have to either. One exception I will grant is: if you paid a fee to be present (which is not the case here, but may be the case with some Twitch users). Additionally, I wasn't referring to DMCA takedowns, I was referring to Bans., hence automated bans not "false DMCA".
The rules (regarding Arma content) are quite clear and explicit. Any attempt to justify the opposite is unwise.
chilly silo
pretty much everything he uploaded is ripped 😛
chilly silo
😃
soft egret
Remember OrionReborn? That community that I reported for monetization violations and workshop upload?
Their workshop upload is back https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1509847880
Their owner was on here. But he already got banned... :u
Not sure if I remember the monetization stuff correctly... Can't find the E-Mail. I'm probably mixing them up with one of the other 50 or so life communities that I reported..
frail flint
@chilly silo I dunno, like 3 of those models were so crap they might have been his own 😄
chilly silo
lol
soft egret
Did we have a clear verdict on whether selling monetization permission is allowed.
The "author" of the RED Car pack that many life servers use is selling monetization permission for his pack.
Also Shounka is selling "his" car pack for monetization usage.
fossil basalt
Shounka's are all ripped anyway, so he's already running afoul of the law
Did we have a clear verdict on whether selling monetization permission is allowed. Not that I've seen
soft egret
FFS https://s.sqf.ovh/thunderbird_2018-09-13_17-33-47.png (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Todays mail inbox.
merry kestrel
holy fudge
faint nacelle
wuut
soft egret
Had a little free time at work today.
Thought I'll just go through the approved servers list...
¯_(ツ)_/¯
wraith comet
Nice
manic lark
@fossil basalt there’s so many of those ripped car mods on the workshop
Really sucks there is little we can even do about it
grand oyster
😂 Poor Dedmen
prisma scaffold
Some our ripped, some our bought from websites like turbosquid
rapid wagon
I sent a mail to microsoft forza but they never replied
faint nacelle
they dont reply. but they might investigate
or they put a tab on it for when someone makes enough money out of it to be sued
rapid wagon
well thats boring
soft egret
Did you mention that they are selling licenses to use the ripped models commercially? (Selling under hand)
rapid wagon
nope :/
soft egret
I asked a Life community to send me a modlist. Suddenly a E-Mail from someone else comes in
Dear Task Force Radio team, I am XXX a Community Manager for XXX previously known as "XXX", also under the domain XXX or XXX.
I was informed from our friends from NewLifeServerThingy that you will not allow them to use your mod do to it using framwork "created" by XXX.
However this accusation is not true and I am hoping to clear some issues up if possible and inform you of situation we had with Bohemia Interactive along the same lines.
The user under the name XXX or Project Lead of XXX attempted to shut us down through Bohemia Interactive and is better explained in the screen shots XXX XXX
However the framwork being used was created by Repentz.
The framwork created by the XXXX development team that XXX claims to have made was sold with full rights to the current owners of Disturbed Gaming and was changed shortly after to the framwork Repentz created do to the previous framwork being extremely buggy and unstable.
I hope this clears somethings up however if it doesn't at least I tried. Thank you for your time.
Pay attention on how he BOUGHT a modpack WITH FULL RIGHTS.
I didn't even deny them yet.. But he seems to be really desperate to help that life community that's trying to request permission.
My reply to him was
>that you will not allow them to use your mod do to it using framwork "created" by XXX.
What? I never said that. My last answer to them was that I want to see a full modlist. We didn't go beyond that yet. I didn't say yes nor no. I intended to check the modlist and then decide.
>was created by Repentz
Ouhhh.. That explains alot. Yeah will probably have to deny them then. Thanks for telling me.
I'm sure his intention was different than the result he got.
They literally made a written contract about selling a modpack containing non-commercial mods that they have no rights on whatsoever.
The guys selling these packs are scammer geniuses
native mist
Repentz has not created a framework 🤔
He took an open source framework, edited it a bit, and claims it as his own
soft egret
Just as expected! Nice. 😄
native mist
But people are dumb enough to buy it off him anyway 😦
royal charm
I have a question about licensing, and if this channel isn't the right one, don't burn me at the stake 😆 Figured it was the most related channel.
Bohemia has three different licenses for releasing original work (say, a terrain), which are APL, APL-SA, and APL-ND. (https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses) It looks like those are the only licenses accepted by Bohemia. These licenses all allow for distribution, under different conditions.
However, there are then modpacks that release with their own licenses, for example CUP, http://cup-arma3.org/CUP-License.txt, that don't allow distribution at all except in private channels unless you have written permission. Are licenses from third-party teams like this that don't conform to any of Bohemias licenses considered acceptable? And no, I'm not attempting to rip anything off CUP, I think their license is fine, I'm just genuinely curious about these types of licenses.
tulip nexus
it says in the pink box about choosing custom licenses
royal charm
"If you use a custom license, it must not prevent users from complying with APL on the original content"
That's the part that confuses me
faint nacelle
assuming your using something that uses APL
royal charm
Because that would contradict licenses like the CUP license, and so forth.
faint nacelle
like Arma source stuff
royal charm
Well, wouldn't all mods be considered "Arma source stuff"?
faint nacelle
no
arma source stuff is what BI has released
A1 A2 models etc
if you do all custom stuff you can license that how you want
anything you use that has been made by someone else you got to comply with the license used with it
royal charm
Then that seems like it would negate the CUP license even more because they used A2 content (though heavily modified)
And I'm not really on about CUP specifically here, it's just the first example that comes to mind.
I'm just curious because we would like to release an "alpha" version of a work-in-progress terrain for people to play test without some communities grabbing it, throwing it on A3Sync, and going around and flaunting the unfinished terrain. In a perfect world, would want it to be fully completed before releasing it publicly.
I'm not sure how to license that though.
faint nacelle
you can ask CUP people about their license but Im pretty sure theirs is okay
tulip nexus
yeah, I'm pretty sure CUP people once had BI's legal people check over their licence like RHS did
but regarding your terrain, what materials of BI are you using?
royal charm
It uses some vanilla buildings + trees, but the terrain itself was made custom. I'm not sure what exactly would count as "BI materials" - does that mean literally every building/tree/roadway would have to be non-Arma?
I would think not, but what do I know lol
faint nacelle
you dont pack those with your map
your map uses them from the original sources
anything you have copied from Arma would need to be APL
or one of the other BI license
royal charm
Ah, so as in, if we took an original Arma asset, retextured it, repacked it, and put it into the map, that would count as "BI materials" ?
tulip nexus
yes
hard mulch
okay I can say something now.
tulip nexus
but you can put that in a separate .pbo and license it differently to the terrain .pbo
royal charm
Okay, cool. We didn't do any of that. The map does have dependencies on some other mods assets, but the dependencies are not packed with it.
hard mulch
hey guys, quick question, if one were to mix 'n match some of the game's own assets where would that fall?
royal charm
I think 12thmonkey just addressed that.
faint nacelle
you cant edit A3 assets legally though
hard mulch
👀
faint nacelle
the models and such
faint nacelle
you can make configs that change textures
but you cant open the models and change them
if you have then shame on you
tulip nexus
yeah, the A3 .p3d files are not licensed that way at all
APL etc. is applied to specific data packs released by BI, not the original game data
royal charm
🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓 🚓
hard mulch
cant paste
tulip nexus
not until BI release the models as public data
tulip nexus
Yeah, you can reproduce a 3D model taking the BI one as a visual reference. But you can't modify the model from Arma 3
faint nacelle
A3 models might become available in few years
like the <A2 ones were released after Arma 3 came out
tulip nexus
but may not be all of them like DLC etc. models
like they would probably have to negotiate with BZ1 to re-license Jets DLC models
AFAIK the Queen's Gambit models from A1 were never released, because it was a 3rd party at the time
prisma scaffold
I'm curious if BI would grant a few exemptions
I know for example there is a A3 ammo case in one the CUP planes
Unless they just remade it and used the texture.
merry kestrel
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1511618450&searchtext= I dont know what to think about this
fierce ocean
tavi allowed to re-upload? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1513270468
soft egret
no
CUP vehicles, CUP Terrains @dull moon
RHS @echo orchid
SFP @sonic blade
TFAR @soft egret
sonic blade
tyvm 😠
merry kestrel
look at all those Russian comments
soft egret
I wonder what happens if we file 4 DMCA's at once.. Maybe Steam bans that guy then? probably not worth the effort.. They won't do anything most likely
fierce ocean
lol)))
frail flint
Was the whole VSM situation resolved in any positive way?
wondering coz this https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1514061150
stoic beacon
It was resolved afaik
echo orchid
@soft egret 👍
faint nacelle
merry kestrel
woops yea
faint nacelle
😉
dull moon
known for 2h... just scroll up a little 😉
minor sonnet
oh hehe
It is on the front page so I should have assumed
@tight copper Tavi not allowed in arma 3 aint it which is a bummer as I liked it
Yep, or rather the Origins/GamersPlatoon/extended version of Taviana. We actually had Martin in the terrain chat a few months ago. Agreed, I had a blast in Origins, Taviana was a great map for its time, but it really would need to be reworked tbh.
tight copper
All the dayz stuff out of there, thats how it needs to be reworked
Its an amazing map for milsim too
Also good it was a mention here, as I was about to go balistic in the wargaming discord, those guys still dont know how to use @ 's
faint nacelle
no everything in DayZ is off limits
merry kestrel
yep, he deleted my comment about it not lasting long, people are going on about "well technically it is based on a map from arma 2, so that means its ok"
hope that it gets taken down soon
keen trout
the comments on that item are pure gold
Technically the map is not from Day-Z, the map is from "ArmA2", I remind you that dayz started as an ArmA2 mod, and then I try to make money doing a standalone game, "so this clown (Dean Hall)", I take the chernarus map of ArmA2, and I modify some houses to give it more ambience, nothing more than that.
olive sparrow
Wow some really fine “modders” on the loose once more
heady stump
Quick rob, chain them before they can do any more damage.
olive sparrow
like trying to pull a zombie from a herd and arrest him for causing public nuisance...
fossil basalt
And thats why we always choose the nuclear option.
soft egret
That guy added me on steam.. Probably to ask for TFAR permission.. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Now he got reported to BI..
prisma scaffold
Why even even pack the vanilla stuff?
hallow lark
And oldie but a goody
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1383634405&searchtext=Dayz
Can't check at the moment, but I wonder if they ever removed the Dayz mod code, or the exile code......
paper prawn
Exile's got an ND license? Glad I stick to Epoch with its APL-SA
grand oyster
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives``` 😉Yep. Prefer Epoch's APL-SA... Let me add ACE3 medical to it... which required male and female character model changes... And lets me config change models used for buildable toilets, for example, on a Chernarus server to be KBuds from CUP Terrains
Legally with Exile I could not do those things...
Hopefully the server files are differently licensed... LOL...
grand oyster
You're free to ask the devs 😉
paper prawn
Happy enough with Epoch. Exile is a great mod but not for me. Being a bit light hearted on this conversational thread tbh...
DayZ mod code would however be a BI IP violation... so the mod would be taken down. Exile code in there in violation of the license would have to be dealt with by the Exile devs... which highlights an issue that has been raised since 2013 (or before)
hallow lark
This is currently waiting for me to finish redownloading A3 to check it out, but I'm pretty sure it's the Chernarus+ from the other day reuploaded.
Judging by his other most recent workshop submission.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1516044383
prisma scaffold
2,811.281 MB. Sounds about right
prisma scaffold
You may NOT use this addon in any way if you are BohemiaBeck.
Some one has a grudge XD
Actually is half his permissions even legal under the BI License? I don't believe you can prevent use based on mission type.
hallow lark
ughh. Forgot I was still subscribed to so many mods. 66gb download, why not. nothing better to do tonight.
hallow lark
haha, that Cup guy just came out and said it.
This is black plus imported from DayZ Standalone```@pliant oar Sent an email about it to infringements.
prisma scaffold
He even has it in the mod itself.
I mean it's pretty oblivious half of that isn't even enforceable. But I would be curious on if simply stating it violates terms and conditions.
soft egret
@vast viper Is there a separate EULA for Steam Workshop? yes. Steam subscriber agreement
prisma scaffold
Not sure if that is kosher?
Actually I guess he says he will make a public release at some time.
undone pier
some is already on steam
soft egret
Good question actually.. Is early exclusive access to beta builds == monetizing mods 🤔
I tend more towards yes.
prisma scaffold
After reading it, I tend to agree. Even if he makes the mods eventual public. He is still hiding them/latest builds behind a paywall.
I guess the more kosher way would simply ask for support, and assure that the money is simply supporting rather then deriving mods.
echo orchid
i only partially agree
undone pier
his older releases are still available: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=23984
APS and CE are on workshop (and his ME troops). so only his Air support module is not currently
vast viper
Is asking for donations considered not monetizing? I'd tend to have a strict interpretation (I assume this guy is deriving from non-monetizable codebase?)
soft egret
donations are not monetizing nope
vast viper
I guess there's also the thing how long your paywall lasts. If you can be still considered releasing sources in a timely manner you'd technically comply to any copyleft requirement. And "Preferential treatment regarding feature requests and support. " could be kosher... at least for copyleft not sure of monetization though!
I'm used to copyleft thinking for a long time but non-monetization is a bit of a new condition in fact 😃
I wonder how much difference there is between BI-ish non-monetization and CC non-commercial 🤔
fossil basalt
No need to wonder, just read:
vast viper
Oh, haven't seen that FAQ before, thanks!
fossil basalt
Copyleft is a general method for making a program (or other work) free (in the sense of freedom, not “zero price”), and requiring all modified and extended versions of the program to be free as well. The simplest way to make a program free software is to put it in the public domain, uncopyrighted.
vast viper
Interesting that they bring up PD in that quote - it's quite a different approach from what GNU/FSF people usually do (strong copyleft)
To me it looks even a bit confusing. If you release something as PD there is no requirement on anybody using your work to also make the derived work free
fossil basalt
Read the whole article, not just the quote.
At any rate, none of this applies here. Lets keep in on topic/
soft egret
merry kestrel
?
soft egret
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1357557706&searchtext=playbox
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/424105450754277376/489692411451408404/firefox_2018-09-13_09-02-37.png
🤔 Where did my comment go? Hmmmmm 🤔 I guess they want me to take care of it then
prisma scaffold
Translation?
soft egret
"Yes.. Correct. Same applies for some of the mods that you reuploaded here.. In a place where it can be downloaded "publicly". AND even on the "Steam Workshop"
The Steam Subscriber agreement explicitly forbids to reupload other peoples mods.
You have a couple days of time to take this down or I'll do it."
prisma scaffold
Ah
Ow jeez, they have instructions on how to install TFR from their mod on their site..
soft egret
well @stoic beacon @proud flicker @opal meadow what do you guys think bout dat?
They even give you guys credit
stoic beacon
But seems like they can't read a license. I'll take care of it
soft egret
Their group has a discord. But noone of them is on Arma discord. Literally not a single one 😄
stoic beacon
Is the Workshop Crawler down?
soft egret
not down. But long time to establish first connection
after you got your connection it worked fine.. I used it like 30 minutes ago.
stoic beacon
Okay, I'll give it some more time 😄
soft egret
Oh throwing 503 now...
river spear
restarting
dull moon
thx
river spear
dunno what happened to be honest, something must have nuked itself
fossil basalt
It encountered an unknown "I do not own the rights..."
flint niche
Im seeing EBO format more and more, first Ive seen on the workshop https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1517902385
soft egret
A3PL are basically the only ones that are doing it
and they are also selling their shit.... BI told them they have to stop EBO'ing to stay monetized.. They still EBO to this day.. Guess I have to ask BI for an update about that
A3PL_TFR_Radios.ebo Now I'm curious...
flint niche
Then this is a pack they sold
soft egret
Okey.. Not curious.. https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1517029618 quite obvious...
DMCA incoming today bois.. Atleast if I can still move when I get home
flint niche
Hurt yourself doing to many DMCAs?
soft egret
No.. Motorbike driving lessons 😄
That guy apparently also owns a Arma script store... 🤔
We'll see what happens to that comment in a few hours 😄
flint niche
🍿
soft egret
Well.. They deleted my comment and renamed it to SantosRPG Telefon
How retarded does one have to be to believe that would work?
mint edge
1 VAC ban on record | Info
soft egret
They also renamed SantosRPG CBA to SantosRPG Client to hide it
WOW.
Playbox-life. A community that I gave one week to take down their reupload. They deleted my comment and I DMCA'ed it yesterday.
Today they post on their website "For safety reasons we sadly have to switch over to Arma3Sync"
mint edge
gg
stoic beacon
Safety from your DMCA Attacks lol
balmy ocean
😂
sonic blade
Suddenly their host gets a dmca notice, hmmmm 🤔
vast viper
Hmm is it offtopic but if your mod/mission incorporates other people's modules then you'd need to have them get their stuff on Steam, or at least get the rights to upload the stuff yourself?
south pelican
If something isn't on Steam for missions and stuff you could just add a link in the description to the Armaholic page the required thing is on if there is no official WS version.
vast viper
Hmm right, there is that... would still be quite clunky
Esp. if you consider that you could already have full rights to modify and distribute the stuff
blazing swan
Anyway to get an arma 3 repo taken down with my content in it?
prisma scaffold
If your the owner, you can file a DMCA on Steam.
blazing swan
Its not on the workshop
astral marlin
get the ip of the repo and then look up the host and file a DMCA with the host you can google how to do this but if they are on OVH your SOL as they ignore DMCA unless you file a court order at your own cost
fossil basalt
@vast viper Esp. if you consider that you could already have full rights to modify and distribute the stuff You NEVER have rights to upload someone else's content to the SW.
undone pier
of course if you get his permission to do so
steam wont act upon it. the author has to and as he has given his ok, its alright
soft egret
Yeah... But
You NEVER have rights to upload someone else's content to the SW. as FM said
You don't have the rights
sure you can ignore the rules.
You don't even need permission for that
undone pier
you have the right of the author
you dont follow the rules from workshop
important distinction
soft egret
And I'd argue that Steam is part of it when you upload on steam
vast viper
Well, open source licenses grant you the rights to redistribute freely; And indeed, you might even have the permission of the author specifically; But then Steam forbids it 😬 🙃
I'll need to read some day what exactly Steam says - but of course they can ban you even if you violated no copyrights, it's their service 🙂
soft egret
In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors).
Me == AllContributors || (Me in AllContributors && PermissionFromEveryoneElse)
quite simple actually
But some people really want to make it hard
carmine folio
Mods that are covered by GPL or other open source licenses aren't shutting down mods reuploaded onto Steam because they allow it, but the uploaders are still in violation of the Steam workshop agreement. There are a lot more violating mods than are actually being taken down.
paper prawn
The most important thing of course is whether you have permission. If you do then while you are violating the Steam Workshop terms you are not violating anyone's IP...
carmine folio
It is at least a different violation, that of Steams workshop much stricter requirements, that is for them to enforce not anyone else.
vast viper
"that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors" is quite interesting part 😄
paper prawn
That line also means that if one contributor falls out with the others, then they can withdraw permission and no further mod uploads with that contributor's material can be uploaded...
vast viper
So it's meant a bit more like a moral rights thing?
Since if the open source license has been once granted, I of course can upload that code quite freely to the Internet, in general
paper prawn
As was explained to me, Steam Workshop overrides and nullifies the GPL... which is some feat for Steam...
soft egret
We already talked about why that doesn't matter
fossil basalt
Since if the open source license has been once granted, I of course can upload that code quite freely to the Internet, in general
But not to the Steam Workshop
paper prawn
That's what I was trying to say
Interesting thought though that a single developer can nullify a mod's right to be uploaded in the future though. Better make sure that core developers never have a falling out
vast viper
😄
fossil basalt
This is important because people are stripping licenses from mods, then adding their own GNU licenses to them and claiming them to be "open source"
paper prawn
I think in this case we all here agree that that is illegal and immoral...
soft egret
Also think about CBA/ACE. Which allow anyone to contribute
soft egret
Yeah. But everyone can just become a contributor and say he's not fine with the steam upload 😄
vast viper
@fossil basalt well that's a straight out copyright violation if the original license was not gpl compatible
fossil basalt
Yes, but you must remember that this channel exists solely because of idiots.
paper prawn
Had not considered the issue of a developer suddenly killing a mod though... as I say, the existing mod can stay there but they would need to strip all code out in order to upload any further changes to Steam
vast viper
Yeah that's why open source licenses are irrevocable
But still one minor developer is not a showstopper
paper prawn
But open source licenses are ignored by Steam, so it's irrelevent. Came as a bit of a shock to me tbh
fossil basalt
Their platform, their rules. (to an extent)
paper prawn
Not really surprised. Steam basically claim ownership of all uploads don't they?
vast viper
@paper prawn Think @fossil basalt is right there. They are not walking all over copyright law - it's just a bit different thing they are enforcing, and I guess they have lawyers too. Maybe they didn't consider the open source thinking to the full extent though.
paper prawn
Actually, given Steam rules, is it actually possible to legally use a GPL license in an upload to Steam - because Steam changes the GPL to a non-GPL license
Which the GPL forbids
fossil basalt
One must also consider that you can not open source something which has its own (more restrictive license).
paper prawn
Do you mean Bohemia's license @fossil basalt
paper prawn
Ah, yes
fossil basalt
an original model not in BI's proprietary format, yes.
vast viper
Ah right - so BI claims some rights in the creations with (some of?) their tools?
fossil basalt
Its in the Tools license
Same reason you cannot charge to make an item for someone in Arma. You can however, make them an item external to Arma then then out of the goodness of your heart import it into Arma for them.
soft egret
https://discordapp.com/channels/105462288051380224/105792634995388416/493072370173739019 Steam doesn't change any licenses
Steam forbidding you to upload stuff. Doesn't automatically change your license
"You cannot upload porn here"
"But my porn is GPL licensed! Meaning I can upload it anywhere! You cannot just change my license!!!"
Yeah.. They don't.
Need better metaphors...
A 18+ club. You are 19. You get thrown out because you are too drunk. Did they change your age to 17?
No they didn't. Because that just doesn't make any sense.
Same with Steam. They don't change your license by not allowing you to enter
paper prawn
Don't actually see any restriction on licensing in the Tools or Object Builder licenses... do see that they can be used only for producing non-commercial final products - thus you would need a non-commercial GPL of course
soft egret
thus you would need a non-commercial GPL of course no you don't
license generally applies to the sources
You can do whatever you want with the sources
And you don't need to put a non-commercial license onto your stuff
paper prawn
Yes, because you cannot permission someone else to produce a commercial product from your mod...?
Because the tools creating it say no monetized final product from the tools
The Licensor also specifically prohibits the use of the Program for other purpose than designing, developing, testing, and producing non-commercial game content for computer games developed by the Licensor only.
soft egret
The tools license is just an addon to your license
you can license it as public domain if you wanted to
but the final pbo's cannot be used commercially anyway
paper prawn
Yes, but aren't people violating that by permissioning those mods to be commercialized?
soft egret
don't know anyone currently.. Besides A3PL
paper prawn
I was thinking more of a mod owner permissioning a mod for use on a monetized server. Surely the individual tools' licenses forbids that. Or am I completely misunderstanding the legal meaning of that section - which would be quite possible. Just seems like it's sort of like the Steam license situation
fossil basalt
The point being is that the final PBOs cannot be open source as the format is propietary
paper prawn
Ah, yes, forgot that 😉
soft egret
I was thinking more of a mod owner permissioning a mod for use on a monetized server monetized servers are exempt of the Arma tools non-commercial license
Which again.. Is why they don't enforce you to change your license
they are just a addon to the existing license
paper prawn
Ah. Makes sense and what I suspected tbh.
soft egret
Anyone know where to report people to that violate the BI tools license by selling mods?
Well I wrote a mail to legal department and just asked for it.. We'll see
Maybe we can get BI to forbid these mods to be used on monetized servers, that would already be a big step.
fossil basalt
Id still say its the same email (infringements@bistudio.com)
vale steeple
the goodness of your heart. what if you don't have a heart like me 😂
shut bough
Hey there. Am I right if I say that APL-SA prevent peoples from uploading a mod on steam workshop ? Due to the -SA (Share Alike) part, it is probably not suitable with steam's conditions ?
soft egret
no it doesn't
Steam workshop prevents people from uploading a mod to steam workshop
We talked about that yesterday https://discordapp.com/channels/105462288051380224/105792634995388416/493046658641166336
license doesn't matter. If you're not an author you cannot upload
shut bough
Oh, okay, thanks then
flint niche
soft egret
🤦
Thanks man..
I wonder how many more names they'll come up with till Steam get's fed up and just bans them
flint niche
lol
soft egret
Feels sad how the turkish guys always give the worst experience.. Either by paying you back with a spamfest and hundreds of spam accounts. Or just ignoring you and reuploading. Or swearing at you for not respecting their authority and thinking they are the king and that you cannot do anything to them...
Actually quite interesting that you generally get the same response out of some countries. Like Chinese just don't care and reupload without comment.
With Americans and Europeans you basically get everything mixed
soft egret
Well one reason could be that they wanna pretend like they made everything themselves by slapping their name onto it
Which is also what they say in their forum somewhere "Features first seen in turkey made by us" and such "We are the greatest" talk
If they want to get banned. Fine by me. One less to care about
stoic beacon
Well, the Germans and French aren't better tbh.
soft egret
Oh .. Yeah German teens.... Getting dumber every year 😄
delicate ember
Poles are the best
I didnt saw many of us on workshop
But they do simple retextures on SW
But if it comes to life servers shitload of reuploades or stolen stuff, also our coop groups always have 1 in modpack and own private not for sharing stuff
So still kinda mixed, also your part in community is kinda small
Btw if i do something based on someone stuff that i got illegaly he can take it down?
Its not copy paste more like... reference material?
soft egret
what means "that i got illegally"?
If you reupload something. Only the rightful owner can DMCA it.
So if you reupload something that you got from a illegal reupload, let's say some life idiot. That life idiot cannot DMCA you for reuploading someone elses stuff
But reuploading anything you don't own is not allowed anyway
delicate ember
I mean like i used someone textures as reference but it was stolen property from other game rip and i used vents from it on my texture that i built myself
soft egret
if you used parts of it. Then you are using stolen stuff. Which is not okey.
delicate ember
Okay gpna built myself then but if i will use it as reference material its okay
soft egret
as long as you only keep it on a second screen to look at it or try to remake it, it's fine
dull moon
Steam / valve doesn't give a wet sh*t...
soft egret
I DMCA'ed this EXACT SAME thing from the EXACT SAME PEOPLE with the EXACT SAME "SantosRPG" Name just a couple days ago. And now they just uploaded it again. In fact I just copied the text from my last DMCA because this is EXACTLY THE SAME THING. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
soft egret
https://s.sqf.ovh/Discord_2018-09-25_18-10-36.png but their reuploads of other stuff don't matter. Just apologize to me because I actually punish them for it... some poeple man
broken hornet
@delicate ember yeah as long as the asset is strictly for reference only
You can’t take a asset and modify or any thing like that and then redistribute
stoic beacon
@soft egret well at least they tried to apologize.
Maybe it was a bit rude to not even let them finish their word.
I mean I'm not saying you should waste your time for something that is obviously unnecessary, but at least in my experience I had with such people, most of them actually took my advice and got it right afterwards.
soft egret
he stopped writing for about 5 minutes.. So I assumed he was done
stoic beacon
Oh, okay then