#ip_rights_violations | ARMA | Page 22

echo orchid Nov 20, 2016, 11:34 PM

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great man, i also pay my monthly adobe subscription

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in any case, don't sweat about having a look under the hood, BI already said they are fine with it multiple times (they can't directly say - go ahead reverse engineer shit for obvious reasons)

carmine folio Nov 20, 2016, 11:35 PM

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Aka taking apart the dll's would be a massive no no

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as that is genuinely reverse engineering

echo orchid Nov 20, 2016, 11:36 PM

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they added the ability to check configs, scripts etc directly from within the game

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for this very purpose. in any case, an extra mail they need to read (and most likely reply) haven't hurt anyone

carmine folio Nov 20, 2016, 11:38 PM

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Message:
This is an inquiry in regards to both functions and internal game PBOs. Do I
have permission for example if a BI function script is using older script
commands and I want to improve the speed but partially re-writing elements of
it to improve execution times?

Second question is it legal for me to De-pbo ArmA 3's builtin files to for
example learn from? An example is I know from the config-viewer that there is
base-classes for the UI elements and finding what their structure looks like
can speed-up developing your own GUI as you can see the main base classes, and
understand how they work.

Thirdly can I de-pbo ArmA 3 script file folders so I can understand how to
correctly use specific language constructs and the etc? Without violating and
intellectual property laws?

Yours Kindly GeekyGuy

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I can't spell...

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🤦

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Hopefully BI aren't grammar nazi's :/

echo orchid Nov 20, 2016, 11:40 PM

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you are aware that setting up you P folder does just that: it unpbos every single .pbo file on your P: drive

carmine folio Nov 20, 2016, 11:40 PM

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Really?

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omg epic.

echo orchid Nov 20, 2016, 11:41 PM

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and there is no real (confortable way) of creating content without that setup this way...

carmine folio Nov 20, 2016, 11:41 PM

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P drive is basically a Virtual Volume correct?

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Or well virtual disk

echo orchid Nov 20, 2016, 11:46 PM

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yes

carmine folio Nov 21, 2016, 11:15 AM

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@echo orchid Welp that was less than help from BI 😦

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https://www.bistudio.com/community/game-content-usage-rules

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Should answer all your questions bahhhhh.

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No it doesn't..

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Can I reverse engineer or modify your game files?

You may not reverse engineer or hack our games to access the content you want to make items from or to change the game’s functionality.

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So how did Tonic get away with re-writing BIS_fnc_MP

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I am so confused right now...

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But cannot reverse engineer or modify game files

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but the P drive de-pbos

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O_O

echo orchid Nov 21, 2016, 11:19 AM

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do you really think they will put into writting that reverse engineering is allowed, which would be against their own EULA?

carmine folio Nov 21, 2016, 11:20 AM

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I'm not completely understanding?

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Are you saying it is, but isn't at the same time?

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This is why I have IP even though I follow it my CS5.5 I had ask hundreds of questions

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to get the one answer that was pertinent to what I needed to know

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Being a "student" and no longer a student if the master suite is used by me and only me

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can I use it for commercial-gain?

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Off my own work.

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I finally got the answer from an actual photographer

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@echo orchid this is messy...

faint nacelle Nov 21, 2016, 11:39 AM

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I believe they dont mind you checking out configs or functions and building on them, but they wont give it to you in writing to cover their asses if your modding breaks something. As Pufu said the turn a blind eye.

echo orchid Nov 21, 2016, 1:03 PM

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there is nothing messy about it

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not sure what you don't get about it

fervent needle Nov 21, 2016, 2:44 PM

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Go ahead and take a look at the file, I'll even send it to you if it makes you feel better 😛 half the advice people give in here or suggest to do is to look at arma default configs/files/examples etc. If it were against the rules FM would be silencing half of us 😃

fossil basalt Nov 21, 2016, 3:37 PM

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That's not necessarily correct. I've stated the proper way to go about it. If someone chooses to peek into it on their own and in private, there's really no way of anyone knowing they did so. There's no alarm bell that goes off and sends a message to BI when a PBO is opened.

bronze anchor Nov 21, 2016, 3:54 PM

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I think the statement about reverse engineering their game is more addressing messing around with executable files. BI doesn't care if you open PBOs, as they literally provide tools to do it. Last time I checked (more than a year ago) Exile overrode some of the vanilla ambient animal functions, and I'm sure BI doesn't care in the slightest.

fervent needle Nov 21, 2016, 3:55 PM

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Well in practice I think the rules are there for a main factor of them not wanting people to rip apart their stuff and modify it, such as the female mod that popped up where old p3ds were used and modified. But now the models were changed as that is strictly against the rules. I think its like what pennyworth said, more for exes, dlls and their own models/assets and maps

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They cant exactly protect or expect to have a lot of control over their configs/functions, because well people need to see them to mod their own stuff as we all know about the stellar documentation that we have at our fingertips 😉

fossil basalt Nov 21, 2016, 4:00 PM

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There's never any harm in asking

fervent needle Nov 21, 2016, 4:06 PM

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Yup!

nova drift Nov 21, 2016, 5:48 PM

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From what I understand, If it was not released with a license APL(-SA) then it falls under the games EULA. Meaning anything you do with the scripts, configs, textures, sounds, etc. you extract from game pbo's are technically not allowed for modification and redistribution, so it's a legal gray area that BI can use at their discretion.

We have also in the past re-coded several BIS functions for use in Epoch and just made certain to leave author info and headers intact and not had any issues. In fact, BI even has a function viewer in the in-game editor so you can see the code for these functions without even extracting game data.

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One thing I have always questioned was what is the legal standing of these "re-skin" mods (unit, weapon, vehicle, etc.) that use Arma 3 textures as a template for their changes?

undone pier Nov 21, 2016, 9:47 PM

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again its about the executable

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BI doesnt care about pbo extraction - up until A3 they didnt even care about redistribution of their game files, or hex editing

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only with the influx of new ppl after DayZ and Life they decided to act more strict on that

carmine folio Nov 21, 2016, 10:01 PM

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Ahhhh

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Thats all I need to do

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I mean am I allowed to post the BIS_fnc_spawnGroup here to show what I edited?

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@undone pier or @nova drift

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I replaced a shit done of comparisons

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with typeName != typeName []

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to if !(_variable isEqualType []) then {}

dusk dew Nov 22, 2016, 3:34 AM

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Ofcourse

vestal walrus Nov 26, 2016, 1:01 AM

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If you make SQF scripts from scratch, under what licenses can you license them under? I'm just curious because I hear a lot of talk about not being able to put licenses on some stuff since basically Bohemia owns all SQF scripts (they say)

echo orchid Nov 26, 2016, 12:16 PM

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lol ^ whatever license you want.

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BI owns SQF and P3D file formats

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not its contents

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i heard the shit about BI owning P3D as well, especially from the fuckwits that need to find an argument for them not respecting licenses @vestal walrus

vestal walrus Nov 26, 2016, 2:09 PM

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Yeah ok good

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@echo orchid

carmine folio Nov 30, 2016, 11:09 PM

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Can i pbo a pbo? :P

hushed abyss Nov 30, 2016, 11:19 PM

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We're being harassed by certain mod's makers for using their mod on a "monetarized server".
We are a Non-Profit Organisation (under German Federal Law), we per definition can't monetise anything other than to cover operating costs.
How best to tell of these trolls?

hallow lark Nov 30, 2016, 11:40 PM

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If the mod maker does not allow monetization, it does not matter what you are, you cannot monetize with those mods present.

hushed abyss Nov 30, 2016, 11:40 PM

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We do not monetize

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Definition of monetization requires quid pro quo

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Our core members are asked to pay a monthly fee to cover operating costs. There is no reward for that inside the game/during play

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And there can be no monetisation in the sense that the organisation's leaders receive money.
We'd go to jail for embezzlement

hallow lark Nov 30, 2016, 11:49 PM

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That by bohemias definition falls under monetization. Operating out of pocket, with no money changing hands other than the operator paying for hosting wound be not monetizing. Accepting donations from players, but not requiring them for access to your server would not be monetizing. Limiting access to anyone not a paying member is monetizing.

hushed abyss Nov 30, 2016, 11:49 PM

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There is no access limitation

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There are paying (core) and unpaying (player) members.
They have exactly equal rights on the server

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As the former are tasked with the operation of things they are privy to additional information outside the gane, but that's basically it

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Paying members dont pay to be paying members, they pay because we split the cost of the servers among us , because how else would a group of people jointly pay for something

hallow lark Nov 30, 2016, 11:56 PM

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Have you contacted the mod makers to explain the situation?

hushed abyss Nov 30, 2016, 11:57 PM

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Not me personally, but yes

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But I guess their definition of monetisation begins and ends with "there are two types of membership "

hallow lark Dec 1, 2016, 12:00 AM

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What type of server is this if you Dont mind me asking?

hushed abyss Dec 1, 2016, 12:00 AM

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Oh i dort mind. We run Co-Op/TvT and MilSim events

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No KotH or Life stuff or anything like that

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There are events planned ahead of time, so people come prepared and there's a story etc

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Think ShackTac but more mods and more people( i think)

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And servers ^^

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8 iirc

hallow lark Dec 1, 2016, 12:04 AM

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And what do core members get that regular do not?

hushed abyss Dec 1, 2016, 12:05 AM

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They get to do all the work that keeps us running

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Organizing events and trainings

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Making missions

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It's not a reward 😃

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Just volunteer work

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In other terms, you could think of core members as the team operating the server

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I merely represent our organisation legally to our IT service provider

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But noone can operate a ~300 player community alone

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So, there's a team of people with responsibilities to keep it running, and they share the cost

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We do accept donations to make sure we don't go under when a member forgets to pay, but they're entirely anonymous

hallow lark Dec 1, 2016, 12:13 AM

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Maybe someone else can chime in, but splitting the cost of the server equally among the owners is not an issue.

hushed abyss Dec 1, 2016, 12:14 AM

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That's welcome agreement to my thoughts 😉

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(Meant to write 😃 , on mobile.. not that it matters)

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I'll head to bed for now and check for replies tomorrow.
Have a good one, BigBen

fervent needle Dec 1, 2016, 2:12 AM

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@Janus#3901 I would do your best to explain the situation to them about it, could be a split payment of the servers. The people who pay organize it and run events, thats more of a group pay and play vs donations. If they still request you remove their mods you will have to otherwise you risk your servers being cut off from battleye by BI. Its unfortunate but they need to stick to their guns.

fossil basalt Dec 1, 2016, 7:13 AM

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The rub comes when you read BIs rules

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https://www.bistudio.com/monetization

Bohemia Interactive

Arma 3 & Dayz Server Monetization Rules | Bohemia Interactive

Bohemia Interactive monetization rules.

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'''From February 1st 2015, anyone is allowed to monetize their Arma 3 server in the following way as long as they're registered, approved and listed on https://www.bistudio.com/monetization/approved/arma3:

Charging players to access your server, if the fees and associated perks do not affect gameplay in any way, is allowed. Cosmetic perks are allowed. Limiting access to only paying players is allowed.'''

Bohemia Interactive

Approved Server Monetizers | Bohemia Interactive

Bohemia Interactive monetization rules.

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In your case I take it as "you have to register as a monetised server" before fees can change hand regardless if a profit is being made.

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Lastly, I (personally) believe that if a mod author asks you to remove a mod, you should do so. Authors Rights.

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You must remember that a few "life servers" went down the same route in an attempt to bypass the rules and it ended badly for them.

hushed abyss Dec 1, 2016, 7:34 AM

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Yeah, i was among the people going after those life servers when they stole my stuff . I do respect their wish if it comes down to that.

undone pier Dec 1, 2016, 8:38 AM

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@Janus#3901 to have members pay for the server is standard practice. sounds like some mod author/team going wild again

echo orchid Dec 1, 2016, 9:11 PM

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@Janus#3901 what you describe doesn't fall under monetization

echo orchid Dec 2, 2016, 11:56 AM

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@carmine folio - what?

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i do hope you're being sarcastic

cobalt creek Dec 2, 2016, 11:56 AM

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I think (hope) that was sarcasm.

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lol

brittle harness Dec 2, 2016, 4:20 PM

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@Quiksilver#5042 add !!!1!!eleven!! next time to make sure they understand you

carmine folio Dec 3, 2016, 12:54 AM

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I like mony.

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Nothing wrong in a modder earn money with his mod. But seens that never happned in Arma toxic communists.

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I mean community.

south nimbus Dec 3, 2016, 3:03 AM

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Gent's seems to got into a discussion with fella on Facebook group over a model try to get into arma to go with a map am working on to give more feel. Am working on a Resident Evil racoon city map the is built by me from the ground up but the player model I had is from Game cube RE game. After lissen to him go on about content stealing iv decided to leave the player model out but if I want to use how do I go about this?

heavy moon Dec 3, 2016, 3:08 AM

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contact the IP owner and ask for a licence to use it.

south nimbus Dec 3, 2016, 3:09 AM

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So if I get a letter from the company then that should be fine with bis if I use the models in game.

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Am going to leave the model out for now till I can get a letter from the company.

fossil basalt Dec 3, 2016, 7:00 AM

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http://www.capcom.com/ Theres the address if you want to contact someone.

south nimbus Dec 3, 2016, 11:15 PM

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Cheers for the help -FM- I also have Gala Morgane who is the Community manager for Capcom UK office on my Facebook and I know few people who work at the London office i have sent a letter to see if they have any Game Content Usage Rules. See what comes back.

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maybe should have done this first be for jump in the deep end 🤔

south nimbus Dec 13, 2016, 12:35 PM

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[Up date] Seems I did not send my request to the "relevant department" and is now being forward to the right one? On the plus side I got a free ticket to Capcom's UK xmas party hehe via this https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/capcom-uks-christmas-party-tickets-30190517651

hallow frigate Dec 17, 2016, 1:45 PM

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Now this is embarrassing but: @pliant oar due the September decidings of the Court of Justice (EU) and that deciding that you are liable, even without knowledge, to (later) copyright breaches by sites you've linked to: can we get a legally binding confirmation, that bohemia will not publish any content on their website that may break any copyrights of 3rd parties? ^^

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because gj to our courts fcking everything up -.-

coral torrent Dec 17, 2016, 2:02 PM

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Im not sure if it is EU law, but I can confirm this new copy right law will be active from the 01.03.2017 in Germany (maybe earlier), and therefor every german website / other online service will be forced to make sure, all the content they use, and every site they link to does not contain any copy rights infrightments / all content they reupload on their website needs to be owned or, there must be an agreement with the person providing the content

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Its fact, that every lawyer will be able to sue the shit outta somebody, that links to a website, and there havent been any contracts / any letters that proove the person was ensured there is no copyright breaking on that particular site

hallow frigate Dec 17, 2016, 2:04 PM

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The german law decision you refer to was made based on the EU decision I refer to 😉 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1481314428973&uri=CELEX:62015CJ0160 but yea.. pretty fcked. up just 1 ad or any form of donation (button) and you are liable to any breaches from sites you have ever linked to

coral torrent Dec 17, 2016, 2:04 PM

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I am not a lawyer, but I think BI has to make a legal statement, that all conent on bistudio.com, and every other domain owned by BI, does not contain any copyright issues, otherwise every link to any BI website would not be legal, and you pay a shit load of money ...

hallow frigate Dec 17, 2016, 2:14 PM

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Thanks god that the person who posts the link is responsible (and not the webmaster) else it would be the end for every forum, wiki & search engine out there ^^

coral torrent Dec 17, 2016, 2:18 PM

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So i guess, employ a monkey posting the links i give him, and if some wants to sue mit, i just point at the monkey 😉

hallow frigate Dec 17, 2016, 2:22 PM

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Good choice, as payment Monkeys throw their poop (okay basically everything you can throw) at people :3 they'd just get what they deserve

cobalt creek Dec 17, 2016, 2:31 PM

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uh, from what i've read: Webmaster/Owner of the Page is responsible.

hallow frigate Dec 17, 2016, 2:34 PM

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" Furthermore, when the posting of hyperlinks is carried out for profit, it can be expected that the person who posted such a link carries out the necessary checks to ensure that the work concerned is not illegally published on the website to which those hyperlinks lead" Source: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1481314428973&uri=CELEX:62015CJ0160

cobalt creek Dec 17, 2016, 2:35 PM

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"Uh, i didn't post that, that was a random person from the internet"

south nimbus Dec 17, 2016, 6:46 PM

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Hey gents I just got back from Capcoms xmas party and by the way was awesome they know how to do partys and treat fans haha. PS4 VR is the way forward anyway I have good news and bad the good news I got to speak with lot of dev's on Resident evil and show them what am doing what my plans are they were very cool and like the stuff i was doing. Bad news tho is that their corporate policy is they do not provide express permissions or license to their I.P's for private use. the guy i was talking to then said that they do their best to support and highlight non-profit, fan-driven projects through community channels, such as Capcom Unity, as well as the official Capcom Twitter and Capcom Facebook page. I am not sure what i can do now as I guess this is ether the end of the road for me and arma mod. as that was my last chance to get permission or info on making the mod so not sure what to do now?

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Oh the other issue I had is they wont put anything in writing as well.

hallow frigate Dec 17, 2016, 6:58 PM

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Without written permission that allows you to use and distribute their IP, you can't use it.

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Not much you can do execpt keep asking.

south nimbus Dec 17, 2016, 7:13 PM

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Yup that what am dealing with now looks like the end as don't think there any more i can do in arma in terms of RE mod so might have to let it die 😦

pliant oar Dec 17, 2016, 7:25 PM

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it's simple you add pretext to all urls that leaving your site, that those urls leaving your site and you not responsible for any content, legal issues or damages caused by continuing to such url

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whoever clicks and continues, it's all on theirs own risk ...

echo orchid Dec 17, 2016, 8:37 PM

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lol what ^

hallow frigate Dec 17, 2016, 8:37 PM

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Hope it's really that simple 😕 feels like a legal greyzone. but a nice idea..

heavy moon Dec 17, 2016, 9:03 PM

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@echo orchid thats the same method the steam client does if you click an external link from within the program "by clicking this link you are going to an external site blub blub.. etc"

cobalt creek Dec 17, 2016, 11:46 PM

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You still provide a link to that page, so i guess that won't work/count.

faint nacelle Dec 18, 2016, 2:40 AM

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Remove all links. Everywhere.

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For you know just to be sure.

clear mulch Dec 18, 2016, 5:54 AM

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thats why you write a Disclaimer | TOS | Privacy and all that stuff and add to footer

dusk onyx Dec 18, 2016, 9:45 AM

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What is even IP rights?

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And how do you violate them?

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Does this mean, I can't host my server or what?

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Or is it more like copyright stuff?

fossil basalt Dec 18, 2016, 10:42 AM

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@dusk onyx```What intellectual property is:
Intellectual property:

the names of your products or brands
your inventions
the design or look of your products
things you write, make or produce

dusk onyx Dec 18, 2016, 10:43 AM

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Ooh, "intellectual property"

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Thanks for clarifying.

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👌

fossil basalt Dec 18, 2016, 10:45 AM

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With regard to what is commonly discussed within Arma is that there are specific rules for monetisation

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https://www.bistudio.com/monetization

Bohemia Interactive

Arma 3 & Dayz Server Monetization Rules | Bohemia Interactive

Bohemia Interactive monetization rules.

echo orchid Dec 18, 2016, 10:45 AM

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and general use as well

fossil basalt Dec 18, 2016, 10:46 AM

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And as PuFu beat me to it general use as well 😉

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Don't steal peoples creations.
Always ask for permission.
If no one answers your request for permission the answer is a default NO.

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There is much more to it than that, but thats the gist of it.

dusk onyx Dec 18, 2016, 10:49 AM

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Basically common sense.

fossil basalt Dec 18, 2016, 10:49 AM

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You would be surprised at how uncommon it is sometimes.

dusk onyx Dec 18, 2016, 10:50 AM

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I can relate.

carmine folio Dec 19, 2016, 2:14 AM

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https://arma3projectlife.com/forums/index.php?threads/beta-purchases-open.9340/

ArmA 3 Project Life

BETA PURCHASES OPEN

Hello everyone, You are now able to purchase beta access again. Please remember you are also required to have an accepted membership application in...

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Just $29.99!

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https://arma3projectlife.com/forums/index.php?pember/membership-new

fervent needle Dec 19, 2016, 2:24 AM

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@carmine folio Technically wouldn't that be allowed? Unfortunately I thought you could allow people to pay to whitelist

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From February 1st 2015, anyone is allowed to monetize their Arma 3 server in the following way as long as they're registered, approved and listed on https://www.bistudio.com/monetization/approved/arma3:

Charging players to access your server, if the fees and associated perks do not affect gameplay in any way, is allowed. Cosmetic perks are allowed. Limiting access to only paying players is allowed.

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technically it is, gameplay is not affected, its just locked behind the charge, its a bit grey though

carmine folio Dec 19, 2016, 2:26 AM

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Yeah, it appears it is allowed.

fervent needle Dec 19, 2016, 2:26 AM

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at the same time, its affecting gameplay by allowing non payers to not play.. haha

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so again, if you look at it that way.. its not

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grey area :\

carmine folio Dec 19, 2016, 2:27 AM

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Still, $29.99 for "beta" access made me laugh

fervent needle Dec 19, 2016, 2:27 AM

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yea lol

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oh well 😛

heavy moon Dec 19, 2016, 2:49 AM

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wow $30 to play a game you already own with 99% of sqf code thats already been published,. go figure

faint nacelle Dec 19, 2016, 2:53 AM

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its not foolish to charge but to pay.

clear mulch Dec 19, 2016, 3:08 AM

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where there is sheep there out to be wool

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

blazing wyvern Dec 19, 2016, 12:04 PM

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thats what arma community turned into

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pay for fucking access

vast notch Dec 19, 2016, 2:00 PM

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They use all those $30 to hire nannies to moderate the server population ;)

nova drift Dec 19, 2016, 4:25 PM

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Step 1: Allow Server Admins to monetize.
Step 2: Something about stealing underpants, ????
Step 3: Profit.

vagrant stag Dec 21, 2016, 12:21 PM

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I just come accross a russian server that have donation to buy weapons? now is that allowed? its ArmA 3 Exile, here is a few screenshots of the donation thing

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http://prnt.sc/dm56l2

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http://prnt.sc/dm56ps

fervent needle Dec 21, 2016, 3:46 PM

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@vagrant stag no that isn't allowed

carmine folio Dec 22, 2016, 7:52 AM

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@vagrant stag As if I'd be paypaling, VISA'ing anything to suspect sites like that.

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@blazing wyvern That is the cancer we must now suffer...

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Because BI allowed themselves to be ram-raided by lazy mofos that don't know heads or tails of servers and live off the work of modders and scripters

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The amount of "locked" down pay for access servers, is complete rubbish.

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I actually laugh everytime those "really popular servers" get hacked by hackers.

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And they really mess stuff up.

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So many people are doing the "get rich quick schemes" for ArmA 3 Servers.

wheat wave Dec 22, 2016, 10:21 AM

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bi really opened pandora's box with monetization

pliant oar Dec 22, 2016, 10:31 AM

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so, you think before the rules were set there was no abuse? ...

fossil basalt Dec 22, 2016, 10:40 AM

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I believe people were more discreet about it and used non public addons.

wheat wave Dec 22, 2016, 12:59 PM

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no @pliant oar i dont think that, but now it is legitimized

pliant oar Dec 22, 2016, 1:01 PM

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sigh, always someone complaining about something, improved rules were needed so legal actions can be taken more effectively

fossil basalt Dec 22, 2016, 1:07 PM

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I think part of the problem lies in the fact that any idiot can host a server and profit from it, but addon makers don't (and can't) make any money from it.

wheat wave Dec 22, 2016, 1:42 PM

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yes, i do complain, if that bothers you sucks to be you

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i dont get paid to go after monetizers who break my mod rules

pliant oar Dec 22, 2016, 2:11 PM

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if they breach our monetizing rules, then you can report them to our legal and we can do something about it

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hence, why the rules need to exist in first place

vagrant stag Dec 22, 2016, 7:07 PM

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server information for the donation thing:

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Server IP arma 3 exile: 87.98.165.176:2302
Name: 749 exile Chernarus

pliant oar Dec 22, 2016, 9:01 PM

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@vagrant stag there is email for reports in the channel description ...

carmine folio Dec 22, 2016, 9:44 PM

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Its not the bad part that became bigger, its the good part that can't sustain their selfs... gooda gooda gooda? Yeah i'm gooda!

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Who will do Y when monetization program allow X and then say "I'm covered by monetization rulez!"? And who will notice that and think they are in a good situation?

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Lets play the poor & noble game... just play.

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 1:58 AM

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????

gritty path Dec 23, 2016, 3:04 AM

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i think he's trying to say we should monetize it all.

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 3:31 AM

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I have no clue

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

clear mulch Dec 23, 2016, 3:45 AM

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lenny time ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ¯_(ツ)_/¯

clear mulch Dec 23, 2016, 5:01 AM

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I dont see nothing wrong with donations and reserved slots, but making conent for money and selling it to players is something I am very against of

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you can always use ingame currency to award players dont need hard money for that

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if you cant support the running server then dont run it, its not a bussiness to get rich from

pliant oar Dec 23, 2016, 5:17 AM

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ye and that's quite problem cause if people who sell various types of creative entertainment can get paid, why the content creators can't

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so sooner or later there will need to be way how level the field so everyone can decide if he does it for free or not

clear mulch Dec 23, 2016, 5:24 AM

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I dont know where this snake popped its head from, I dont recall it being a thing in previous titles and whos idea was to open this pandoras box, but it was bad idea

gritty path Dec 23, 2016, 5:34 AM

#

:agentsmith: it is the ...

pliant oar Dec 23, 2016, 7:57 AM

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not just that those who create enteraintment (let say videos or creative hosting (not exactly servers admins) or GSPs or server hosters already may monetize to degree

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what's missing and needed is fair and working solution to creative content makers too

clear mulch Dec 23, 2016, 7:57 AM

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the effort comes from a hobi and love towards it not because of the profit, the server as I said can live trough donations and reserved slots if there are many players and they are willing to support it, just my 2c

pliant oar Dec 23, 2016, 7:57 AM

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but the solution will need to be more than just some sale place to avoid actually slaughtering the modding and free content access

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so it's just matter when and how not if ...

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valve time and sometime in future 😉

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best is find approach to preserve best of both worlds (free and not)

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ye but then there are server hosters who actually put constant good oversight, tweaking and even zeusing etc.

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so you can't again say it's only the bad guys outta here

clear mulch Dec 23, 2016, 8:05 AM

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if it can be abused rest assured it will, I am not projecting my ideology to everyone, this community lives quite long w/o monetization and was quite happy, and all of a sudden it goes down and problems appear with it, content/IP theft rises, so what happened in the meantime? What has caused it?

#

not sure I got your last one

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I didnt mention obfuscating neither I use it

tender hawk Dec 23, 2016, 8:08 AM

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this community lives quite long w/o monetization and was quite happy
Without regulated monetization perhaps... and "was quite happy" reminds me a little too much of this election year

gritty path Dec 23, 2016, 8:13 AM

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for the record, i've seen the inevitiable coming for some time. i honestly believe at the end of the day it will work out. and the end result will be some really great assets all can utilize without mashing on each other. and those who really do invest extrodinary amounts of time and skill, should and can be rewarded for such. which is not to say i don't understand how some people feel. but times be changing.

tender hawk Dec 23, 2016, 8:15 AM

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More like "times have BEEN changing"

gritty path Dec 23, 2016, 8:15 AM

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very true.

tender hawk Dec 23, 2016, 8:15 AM

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Hell, times were changing before Arma 3 hit public alpha

pliant oar Dec 23, 2016, 8:41 AM

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there were abusers long time before the monetizing rules were setup ... in fact those rules were accelerated by the explosion of abuse ...

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the absence of solution for ccc is mixture of multiple obstacles starting legal minefield, dependencies on multiple 3rd parties and so on ...

carmine folio Dec 23, 2016, 3:12 PM

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The high costs for running a server/community was the primary reason I founded this business. I didn't create it to make as much money as possible on clients, but provide a tailored experience, specifically for Arma. I have helped out a lot of people and communities (some I am making $0 profit each month) and one community is having their servers paid for every month. I am not in this to make big money, hell, I am lucky if I make $300/month on this business.

#

so what do you actually do? resell virtual servers?

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just out of interest

fervent needle Dec 23, 2016, 4:24 PM

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""this community lives quite long w/o monetization and was quite happy"" I knew some people who were making $3k usd+ a month off of loadouts etc from dayz mod servers, another made $5-8k a month off of selling loadouts and private bases before monitization, arma needed it

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The morr you paid the more OP stuff you got, the sky was the limit

dull moon Dec 23, 2016, 5:25 PM

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The Argument that ppl have to use monetization or donations to keep the gameserver running is invalid...
A powerful Linux Server is about 20,- maybe, if not less.
It has been mentioned before: who can not affort to Run an expensive windows root Server shall not do it!

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 5:39 PM

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Exactly.
Screw Monetization, dissallow it completely. That would be my ChristmasWish -.-

river spear Dec 23, 2016, 5:39 PM

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I have my raspberry pie

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pure power

carmine folio Dec 23, 2016, 6:53 PM

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@carmine folio I lease our own dedicated servers that are run via control panels. Clients can buy servers that are shared on those. I also resell dedicated servers for very affordable prices.

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Also resell voice servers, because the licenses are crazy to do for the small amount of slots I host.

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I put at little of a markup on the servers as I can, while making some profit to have the business sustainable.

west terrace Dec 23, 2016, 8:32 PM

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@dull moon I'd love some of that. You come live in aus and see what you can get. And my experience with Linux Arma servers is they dont cut it for much other than vanilla arma. They never offer the same performance. And u want a Dedi that can run two 80 slot servers in aus your looking at 350 a month. If your happy with laggy rubbish servers you can go virtual for like $2 slot.

bright quartz Dec 23, 2016, 10:45 PM

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^

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Some of us invest tens of thousands in hardware, rack space, power, bandwidth

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lets not be so narrow minded to get rid of monetisation completely

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p.s. the sa-matra community donates to other content creators when we can jusy sayin'

carmine folio Dec 23, 2016, 10:51 PM

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I personally think BI should set the monetization rules and not have other mods interfere like CUP. There is things you can do with other mods but unfortunately everyone has to use CUP with the other maps and then you can't make payments on your dedi due to the shitty rules they introduced.

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:01 PM

#

Simple Q:
Would you buy a house, if you couldn't pay the rates for it
OR
would you move in a house that someone else has bought, where you can afford the monthly payment?

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Info: Its not about Donations, its about Selling stuff/expecting something in return for a "donation"

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Bullshit

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"not the same at all. If you buy a theater for hundreds/thousands of people a week to watch movies in, should you pay all the cost?"
Sry, but thats the dumbest comparsion i have ever read

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many players feel entitled to play on the server and only "donate" when they feel they will get something further/extra in exchange```
Thats not DONATING! Thats: BUYING!

heavy moon Dec 23, 2016, 11:05 PM

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you have the wrong kinds of players,. I ran dayzmod & arma 3 servers for years,. mostly self funded,. but I did have regular people donating purely for running clean lag/glitch free servers for them to enjy themselves on. not one asked for anything in return, ever.

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:05 PM

#

the only times someone offered CUP money was pretty much a bribe to keep us quiet with reports (that we didn't take), apart from that we've had maybe 2 people come up and ask if we'd accept donations

#

just saying, im really not seeing this will to turn money to modmakers

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:06 PM

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Same here @heavy moon , we had a weekly Donation income (back in the days-NOTHING in return), so we were able to pay the ServerCosts for 2-3 Months in advance...

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:06 PM

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and the very few times we managed to look into how much monetized servers were making, they were making literally thousends of dollars each month

#

yes

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:07 PM

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Using Contents of others.

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:07 PM

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among others

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:07 PM

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Its just not funny anymore...

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:08 PM

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😄

heavy moon Dec 23, 2016, 11:08 PM

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yeah sure its all about the server admins and nothing to do with the content they're using to populate their servers

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no, there is no middle-man other than dmca takedowns

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:09 PM

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They are the EndUser

#

add a 0 to it.

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Teamwork

heavy moon Dec 23, 2016, 11:09 PM

#

or better yet, start counting in years.

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:09 PM

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i have almost 6000 hours in a3

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and there's some 10-15 other people working in cup

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at various times

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:09 PM

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same here, 6031hrs @wheat wave

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:10 PM

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that 20k is not really that far off

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:10 PM

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and about 5-10% is gaming

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:11 PM

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eheheh i sooo feel you...

heavy moon Dec 23, 2016, 11:11 PM

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shame it doesnt count all the time used in other programs outside a3/a3tool that we put towards content creation

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:11 PM

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and the upcoming DLCs are going to require a lot of work

heavy moon Dec 23, 2016, 11:11 PM

#

then you could put a real statistic against mod creation time vs. monetisation

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:12 PM

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don't mention the time that doesn't need A3 (Blender, Notepad++ ( 😄 ), Quixel, etc)

heavy moon Dec 23, 2016, 11:12 PM

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yep

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:12 PM

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😄

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anyway i dont think anyone got into arma modding for the money

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except the very very few who did so for the MANW

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:13 PM

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Hell, that would be like castrating yourself to become a hooker oO

#

(Means: It just makes no sense)

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:13 PM

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all these debates and time wasted going after people breaking license drain enthusiasm

heavy moon Dec 23, 2016, 11:14 PM

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nope, but when you hear of groups liberally flaunting monetization rules put in place to curb that behavior,. it really doesnt make you anymore keen to produce stuff that goes out to the public

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:14 PM

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😄

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:14 PM

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wut? oO

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:15 PM

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sold by a guy named Chairman

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hmmm

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:15 PM

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Who could that be

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:15 PM

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idk seems legit to me

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i dont think anyone is against the concept of servers being able to pay the bills with that kind of tools

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but they're exploited too easily

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:20 PM

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Yep

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:20 PM

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as i said, its too easy to exploit it 😛

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:20 PM

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Paying money shouldn't be involved in gaming. Thats my point.
-edit added:
Additional note: not from a Player/ServerOwner side

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:20 PM

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and then the modmaker has to chase after servers

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making him look like the asshole in all this affair

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then you have double work, and again people can take the modfiles and put them somewhere else 😄

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:24 PM

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Yep =/

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:25 PM

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😦

bright quartz Dec 23, 2016, 11:26 PM

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sa-matra has like 15k hours in arma alone xD

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arma 3^

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:26 PM

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50% of it is AFK idling 😄

bright quartz Dec 23, 2016, 11:26 PM

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not arma 2 xD

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nope

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he devs all day

cobalt creek Dec 23, 2016, 11:26 PM

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Except when he plays LOL or the other mobagamethingy

wheat wave Dec 23, 2016, 11:27 PM

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HT?

bright quartz Dec 23, 2016, 11:29 PM

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no he does not

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i wish he did

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i wish i did but we dont no

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no idea what arguement u are talking about

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there isnt one

fossil basalt Dec 24, 2016, 1:41 AM

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🍿

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Guess I was too late to the party....

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 1:41 AM

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Too slow, you are getting old

fossil basalt Dec 24, 2016, 1:42 AM

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Beer + Epic Arma mission

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Server owners should recoup 5-10% tops over cost of server slots and Mod makers should get a set fee (up to a certain server size, then more).

#

^ thats my opinion

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Modders do the lions share of the work, so why should server operators profit and mod makers dont?

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Maybe that needs to change

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 2:04 AM

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^^

gritty path Dec 24, 2016, 2:28 AM

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Times be changin...

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 2:31 AM

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Don't think that will happen. atm just not possible to track who is using which addon :/

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 2:41 AM

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it would just be a matter of adding to to current server monetisation policy

#

theres no need for a "steam workshop store" style approach. as a bare minimum they could allow content creators to charge for their content to servers. thus bypassing the need for content creators to also have to self host servers if they wanted to get something in return for their hard work

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 2:59 AM

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it would be exactly the same as it currently is tho

#

say i was to start a server with cups on it currently and started monetising it. they request blacklisting from bohemia BE or dmca it and it happens

#

it would be no different if they only allowed servers with permission to use it without monetisation.
allowing mod monetisation simply adds more to this current system. Bohemia could even outline a minimum "contract" they require mods and servers to comply with in order to protect both mod and server parties in case the other tried to rip the other off

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 3:56 AM

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The notion that mod devs do the lions share of the work and server owners just sit back and host isn't exactly accurate though. Hosting an ArmA server can be just as much work as creating a mod (I have experience doing both). The thing is, it's really easy to hand over a few dollars to a GSP and have them set everything up. Just click a couple things here and there to add some scripts/addons. But the serious hosts don't use GSPs, they fork out at least $100 per month, work on scripts, manage players, deal with cheaters, etc.

#

Don't get me wrong; mod devs certainly deserve something. It's not right for server owners to sit back and rake in the money, while mod devs do all the hard work. Unfortunately, the current system doesn't really allow for mod devs to receive the credit (money) they deserve.

#

Furthermore, people assume that just because they can set up a one-click server with a GSP, that hosting is literally that easy. It's not, and like I said before, any serious server owner puts in a lot more work than that. And they don't come out with nearly as much money as people think.

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Maybe they used to. And they did make a disproportionate amount of money. But it's a lot less now.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 4:02 AM

#

Hosting an ArmA server can be just as much work as creating a mod```
lmfao. Stoped reading after that...

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 4:15 AM

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and then the modmaker has to chase after servers
I always took the point of monetization from a regulation perspective to be 'now Bohemia can do the chasing for you too'

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 4:16 AM

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its not bohemia's job to chase after servers on your behalf

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 4:17 AM

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More a "can" than "will" thing, I suppose

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 4:17 AM

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how are they to know that you havent given permission?

#

you could be an approved server, but still using mods without perm

#

the only way BI knows is if the IP holder contacts them

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 4:18 AM

#

the only way BI knows is if the IP holder contacts them Hence the "too"

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 4:18 AM

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ah i get what ur saying now

#

misunderstood

#

thought u were saying it was all in BI's court

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 4:19 AM

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Nah, I've known it doesn't work that way

#

Plus having monetization rules = formally definitions for stuff such as where the boundary is between donations and "donations" 😉

#

Plus affirming that reporting an approved server "does not limit you from enforcing your copyrights yourself and forcing the server owner to stop using an intellectual property."

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 4:24 AM

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yes

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 4:25 AM

#

I had so, SO much fun watching a server operator try to Twitter fight with the official Bohemia Interactive account over the monetization rules barring (even if only on paper) p2w 😄

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 6:21 AM

#

Dscha, please tell me how many mods and how many servers you have hosted, and for how long. You seem to be stuck with the notion that server owners are freeloaders off of mod makers, but have never explained why.

#

Pay to win has always been the "dark side" of server hosting. That's where you get the stories of owners raking in thousands of dollars per month. The bright side of monetization rules is that the P2W crowd has been limited; but it has not been eliminated.

dull moon Dec 24, 2016, 6:27 AM

#

Hosting an ArmA server can be just as much work as creating a mod

lmfao. Stoped reading after that...```
well, i also had to giggle :D
@cobalt creek

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 6:29 AM

#

^^

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 6:35 AM

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That's OK. I've done both; I'm speaking from experience 😃

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 6:36 AM

#

Just comparing it... idk... it feels like an insult to modder.

dull moon Dec 24, 2016, 6:36 AM

#

me too, and i guess Dscha also. setting up a server and maintaining it is not as hard as modding. o/c it depends on what kind of modding we are talking about

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 6:36 AM

#

Yep

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 6:36 AM

#

That's why I said it can be, not that it is. It is an important distinction.

dull moon Dec 24, 2016, 6:36 AM

#

doing a simple retex... well... meh...
but creating content from scratch

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 6:37 AM

#

Setting up Servers -> one time, max 1 days. Mods = ermm... Month/years?

#

Retext != Mod imho 😄

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 6:37 AM

#

That's simply not true Dscha

#

Actually, setting up a server, yes

#

But that's not what server owners do. And that's the important part.

dull moon Dec 24, 2016, 6:37 AM

#

well, the setup is fairly easy and fast done, but maintaining it takes o/c time

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 6:37 AM

#

Setting up is easy. Maintaining is the important part.

#

Unfortunately, people think that all you have to do for a good server is set it up and sit back. That is simply not the case; which is what most people don't realize. It certainly seems that you did not consider it either on the first pass.

dull moon Dec 24, 2016, 6:41 AM

#

setting up a server to run a mission is no big deal. the mission itself is the consuming part of a server. and this is comparable to modding imo

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 6:42 AM

#

This is my point. Setting up is the easiest part. But too many people assume that hosting is pretty much only setup.

#

Not to mention that competitive hosters often put their own work on at least scripting, if not developing their own mods for the server. Of course, this only applies if you don't steal others' work 😉

fossil basalt Dec 24, 2016, 7:49 AM

#

Let's address the elephant in the room, most of the problems lie with the "Life" community. They have screwed over mod makers time and time again and as as such, couldn't be trusted to make ice cubes. The sad part is there are actually a few that don't lie, cheat and steal.

Eraser, as someone who is quite familiar with network management, I would hardly say managing a server is comparable to the work that went into ACE, ACRE or any other similarly sized mod. I would gladly give up my qualifications to be able to do the things that they do.

fervent needle Dec 24, 2016, 8:23 AM

#

its babysitting vs creating

#

both time consuming in their own way

#

I am downplaying that a bit, but both take up quite a bit of time

wheat wave Dec 24, 2016, 8:52 AM

#

depends on the size of your mod tbh 😄

#

modding something can take even months before you can actually enjoy it in game

#

cup was in development for something like a year and half before it started shaping up into what it is now

undone pier Dec 24, 2016, 12:51 PM

#

maintaining popular servers is very time consuming too and hard work

#

just to handle mods with their updates, issues, incompatibilties is massive time sink

#

then you have to fight cheaters, abusers, manage the community, manage the support staff, and so and so

#

its quite naive to think just startup up a server is all there is to it

clear mulch Dec 24, 2016, 12:54 PM

#

yeah but lately people tend to think that efforts of that kind must be rewarded with money, which .. are odd times were in.... once upon a time we did it just because we loved the game ( any game here ) and had a community and people to deal with it, not look at anything trough the monette

#

Im sorry but Im not from this time and that disgusts me

fossil basalt Dec 24, 2016, 1:22 PM

#

^

vagrant stag Dec 24, 2016, 1:35 PM

#

@golden dove It takes allot of work for creating mods. You spend serval days/weeks on just modelling and texture part, then it comes the scripting and you find out something is not working so you have to find a workaround or fix problems with scripts that is also a pain in the ass.

And when some hosting providers (not all of them) then want money for weapons, vehiclers or other content you have spent weeks on making and free for the community, it is really sad when people want money for your work.

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 1:42 PM

#

@wheat wave cup was in development for something like a year and half before it started shaping up into what it is now
And then "what it is now" is also thanks to community members who were willing to donate their work (or work which they had rights to) even if it fell outside of the basic premise of CUP 😉 such as my own contributed my old F-35B port (augmented by BusterBlader's gun pod/pylons) and I at least once solicited on CUP's behalf for such community content donations

#

@clear mulch but lately people tend to think that efforts of that kind must be rewarded with money
Ehhhh... I'm ambivalent as hell about what this means, but... I remember this argument coming up when it came to streamers/vloggers, not even server owners, however-indirectly making money over footage of themselves playing community content

clear mulch Dec 24, 2016, 1:56 PM

#

whats wrong with streamers?

#

they invested time and effort to record something and along with it they promote your work, I dont see a problem there, unless youre greedy and want a piece of the cake

#

god damn we need a greed emoji

nova drift Dec 24, 2016, 2:04 PM

#

BI basically allowed server monetization to attempt to control what was already happening. Now, one mention from someone that would like to get rid of server monetization and now you guys have been debating over who deserves monetization more. We really should not be resorting to content creators versus server admins debates.

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 2:04 PM

#

@clear mulch whats wrong with streamers? they invested time and effort to record something and along with it they promote your work, I dont see a problem there, unless youre greedy and want a piece of the cake
Coincidentally your argument sounds like some server owner defenders I'm sure 😉 that being said though, re: streamers/vloggers and them being criticized BY a community content creator, my reaction was more along the lines of "sorry community content creator dude, but you and your content are NOT who those viewers showed up for"

nova drift Dec 24, 2016, 2:04 PM

#

In a perfect world Vloggers/streamers should be giving credit to the mods used just like they have to include the disclaimer from BI.

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 2:05 PM

#

@nova drift BI basically allowed server monetization to attempt to control what was already happening. Pretty much what I thought the point of the rules was!

clear mulch Dec 24, 2016, 2:06 PM

#

BI fucked up, plain and simple, it was not happeining to this extempt

#

<<monetization>> attracted thieves and robbers

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 2:08 PM

#

coughthatswhatthecommunitycontentcreatorthoughtofstreamersandvloggerstoocough

clear mulch Dec 24, 2016, 2:08 PM

#

no thats what greedy people think

#

making a video entertaining others and promoting my content, I work to create content, streamer works to promote it, we all happy

#

at least thats how it was

#

anyways I think I said what I had, and anything further would be just plain circlejerk
this channel is pointless and discussion is not giving any results, its best to just report theft here

nova drift Dec 24, 2016, 2:13 PM

#

I don't see any issues with video content as it only promotes your mods work, Provided of course that the streamer/vlogger actually care to give you a backlink to your work.

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 2:13 PM

#

making a video entertaining others and promoting my content, I work to create content, streamer works to promote it, we all happy at least thats how it was
Even when the streamer's got a donation button or Patreon of their own? 😉

clear mulch Dec 24, 2016, 2:14 PM

#

😄

nova drift Dec 24, 2016, 2:14 PM

#

As long as they are not misrepresenting my work I see it as free advertising.

clear mulch Dec 24, 2016, 2:14 PM

#

what is the PROBLEM with that

#

you really want their cookies?

#

people make money for their work, they have possiblity to be creative and earn something, why not?

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 2:15 PM

#

I see a parallel 😉 though you do have a point (in differentiating versus server admins) as to whether content of their own is being created

clear mulch Dec 24, 2016, 2:15 PM

#

Do they make any damage to me, do they steal my work or misrepresent it?

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 2:16 PM

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Even if that content leans on someone else's content

clear mulch Dec 24, 2016, 2:17 PM

#

sharing is caring man

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 2:18 PM

#

Heh... I suppose the difference for you then is whether new however-derivative content is being generated at all, which is fair enough

clear mulch Dec 24, 2016, 2:19 PM

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oh no I didnt meant open source, I do my stuff under CC-NC-BY-ND for the most part

nova drift Dec 24, 2016, 2:20 PM

#

Maybe mods could adopt their own YouTube Monetization Permissions:
https://www.bistudio.com/community/game-content-usage-rules/monetization-youtube

clear mulch Dec 24, 2016, 2:20 PM

#

I dont mind if you enjoy in what I created, ot make videos and earn money of it, entertiaing others, and promoting my work but I do care if you rip my conent or sell it in any way physically ( files )

#

that monetization leads to pricetags being set in SW for mods

#

do you want that as a player?

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 2:24 PM

#

but I do care if you rip my conent or sell it in any way physically ( files ) Naturally, but I find that a different thing altogether

nova drift Dec 24, 2016, 2:50 PM

#

Based on the knee-jerk reaction against monetization of Skyrim mods, content creators were not even given a chance due to the public out lash, thanks to the actions of a few unscrupulous people.

If there is ever to be paid community generated content for Arma we still have a long road convincing people it will actually provide something of greater value that what they already have for free.

tender hawk Dec 24, 2016, 2:53 PM

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coughandBohemiaalreadyhasthisproblemwiththeirownpaidcontentcough

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Or people going 'oh can we please just get a cheaper Tanoa-only Apex' or complaining that Bohemia doesn't do faction DLCs

nova drift Dec 24, 2016, 3:00 PM

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And yes free and paid community generated content could get in the way of BI's own business model.

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However, we have a free Jet-Ski in Epoch and that did not effect BI from releasing a paid one with APEX.

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 7:23 PM

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@eraser1 It takes allot of work for creating mods. You spend serval days/weeks on just modelling and texture part, then it comes the scripting and you find out something is not working so you have to find a workaround or fix problems with scripts that is also a pain in the ass. This is very true, and I completely agree. But hosting a server also comes with its own set of headaches that most people don't realize. Others have mentioned this earlier, and I suggest you take a look through. The bottom line is, both hosters and modders spend a lot of time working on the game, learning and overcoming issues. And the two groups aren't mutually exclusive, there are some hosters that make their own mods too (not just me).

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And when some hosting providers (not all of them) then want money for weapons, vehiclers or other content you have spent weeks on making and free for the community, it is really sad when people want money for your work. This is the part I don't agree with. Again, people think that hosters just throw other peoples' work up and ask for money. While this IS true in certain cases (as -FM- said when he addressed "the elephant in the room") it is most certainly the minority. Thing is, hosters don't charge for the mods; they charge for the time and effort they spent on maintaining the server. Most of them just charge for keeping the server up. The issue is that modders think hosting is easy, and BI doesn't allow modders to have the right to ask for money when hosters use their mods to make money. Too many people think the issue is modders vs. server hosters. That only worsens the problem.

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@vagrant stag

heavy moon Dec 24, 2016, 7:30 PM

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" Most of them just charge for keeping the server up",. if its required of them to charge the players to use/afford their server,. then they shouldn't have the privilidge of hosting a server.

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see this is one of the disgusting parts of arma v.s monetization,. one person thinks one thing is ok to do,. and the next a different thing is ok to do,. when in actual fact what it all boils down to is without content,. you wouldnt have a server to host other than vanilla in the first place.

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I'm glad BI laid down monetization rules,. because it allows them to legally enforce anything that breaks their EULA. Without them it would be open season and not a thing BI could easily do about it.

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 7:35 PM

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That's just not true Uro. First, it might not be required for them to charge, but not having to pay at least $100/mo out of your own pocket would certainly make hosting ArmA a lot more appealing. Forcing people to have to pay that much just for the chance to run a server would SEVERELY limit the amount of servers running in the first place (GSP servers don't count, because as soon as they hit more than 20 players, performance goes out the window). Fewer servers = fewer players. And I think we can all agree that fewer players leads to the death of a game. Even then, it is fairly safe to assume that it is the players that end up getting into modding/scripting. How many content creators started out as a regular player in ArmA? I'm willing to bet that it applies to the majority of people.

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when in actual fact what it all boils down to is without content,. you wouldnt have a server to host other than vanilla in the first place You know KoTH? The game mode that runs off of vanilla arma that won the MANW contest?

heavy moon Dec 24, 2016, 7:36 PM

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again, it uses custom content,. code that is not available within vanilla arma

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 7:37 PM

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Well, I'm glad we can all agree that vanilla arma game modes aren't very popular then 😃

heavy moon Dec 24, 2016, 7:39 PM

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and in regard to having to pay a monetary sum to run/rent/host/colocate a server out of your own pocket,. if you want something you rent or purchase it. if you cannot afford it you do without. why does everyone think everything should be free these days?

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 7:44 PM

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Nobody said it should be free. Just that they should have the ability to be compensated for it. Regardless, if everybody held that attitude, ArmA would certifiably be dead by now.

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Also, even if ArmA had all of the most exquisite mods in the world, if there was nobody to put in the work of hosting it, what's the point?

fossil basalt Dec 24, 2016, 8:10 PM

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You mean back when no one was hosting and we had LAN parties?

carmine folio Dec 24, 2016, 8:11 PM

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Some server owners spend a lot of time adjusting their servers and catering to users. Its impossible to run such a server and have a regular day job to pay the expenses out of pocket

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Personally this is how it should be done. You host someones content and they get a commission off of every donation you receive

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:15 PM

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^ Everybody deserves something for their work. It's certainly better than nobody getting anything

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:43 PM

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@golden dove

First, it might not be required for them to charge, but not having to pay at least $100/mo out of your own pocket would certainly make hosting ArmA a lot more appealing.

And then? Having the same Problem like it is now: many Server with a Population of... erm... 0...

 Forcing people to have to pay that much just for the chance to run a server would SEVERELY limit the amount of servers running in the first place (GSP servers don't count, because as soon as they hit more than 20 players, performance goes out the window).

I say it again: Would you try to buy a house, even if you cannot afford the running costs/Creditloan? Would you?

Fewer servers = fewer players.
Thats just not true.

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:45 PM

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The majority of servers with zero population are from GSPs. Or they're hosted for friends with other friends. GSP servers don't survive for too long, and they can't handle too many players. Yes, GSP hosts are a "problem", in that they inflate server counts, but in the grand scheme, they don't make much of a difference.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:46 PM

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Does it matter where they come from? They are still empty Server.

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:46 PM

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Hosting a server is not like buying a house, you don't get any utility out of it. You do it as a hobby, or you do it to make money. Most people can't pull of the latter.

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Comparing hosting to renting a house/apartment is a bad analogy.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:47 PM

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It is, but you still have to pay for it, and thats the problem! If you just cannot afford it -> You just can't have it. As simple as that!

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:47 PM

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Regardless, as I said earlier, people should have the right to charge for their work. Whether or not people want to pay is a separate issue.

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 8:47 PM

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How does an empty server come Into this discussion? They could monetised but they wouldn't receive anything. They are empty. They are a mute point.

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:47 PM

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Yes, if you can't afford it, you can't have it. But there are methods to afford it. That's the thing.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:47 PM

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Exactly Happydayz, but he refers to: Less server, less plyrs, wich makes no sense at all.

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But there are methods to afford it. That's the thing.```
Rly?

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:48 PM

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Fewer good servers = fewer players.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:48 PM

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bullshit

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:48 PM

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What do you mean bullshit? All those 0 pop servers are made by random people that throw some GSP $20 to set up a server. They don't touch it, they don't manage it.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:49 PM

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and? This affects your Sentence: "Fewer servers = fewer players."

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Wich is just not true.

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:50 PM

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Players play on servers they like. They like servers not just for the mods, but for the support and maintenance of the server, which is also extremely important and must be done by the host. If there's nobody to actually maintain their server, players won't like it. Players will leave and try to find another server. If they can't find one, they'll leave the game.

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Fine "fewer servers = fewer players" is oversimplifying it. But you cannot deny that fewer well-managed servers = fewer players.

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We all know how "uninviting" arma can be to new players who don't know how to avoid rocks, or when a script kiddy joins and nukes everything. People stick around if there are people to explain things to them, to help them when shit happens. Only decently managed-servers can offer those facilities.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:52 PM

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They like servers not just for the mods, but for the support and maintenance of the server, which is also extremely important and must be done by the host```
You also believe in SantaClaus, do you? Ppl want an advantage over others, thats why they are willing to pay... If you want to support a Server, you can DONATE WITHOUT GETTING SOMETHING IN EXCHANGE (Definition of DONATION)

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wow... so much bullcrap... fk that Money bullshit

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 8:52 PM

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The argument you only have a server if u can afford it, i also find lacking. There's lots of things in this world where people with good ideas don't pay upright for their stuff because they want it. Think a student getting a scholarship, think a business getting backers, the local community soup kitchen runs off donations. Oh you want that to stop too because they should only offer what they can afford?

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:53 PM

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you can DONATE WITHOUT GETTING SOMETHING IN EXCHANGE (Definition of DONATION But nobody does that anymore. Which is another problem.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:53 PM

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They do

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alot do

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:53 PM

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Not enough

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I know dozens of server owners that maintain at least 30 players on average. They don't receive enough in plain donations to cover their costs.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:54 PM

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Because alot of morons started to expect something from their "Donation"

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:54 PM

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Not to mention the hours of effort they put in to maintain their servers.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:54 PM

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And alot of greedy motherhugger expected a QUickBuck

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 8:54 PM

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Your argument is that donations are wrong as well

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You are the one saying no monetisation

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:54 PM

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Who do you Dayz?

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 8:54 PM

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Donations are monetisation

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:55 PM

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wut? Nonono

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 8:55 PM

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Yu said it yesterday

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:55 PM

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Donation = Receiving nothing. Just for the sake = Okay

west terrace Dec 24, 2016, 8:55 PM

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That it would be your ideal present t for christmas

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:55 PM

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Monetization = Receiving something for money = Fuck that

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Donation != Monetization. Keep that in mind.

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 8:56 PM

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Either way, plain old donations aren't enough to cover the costs for most servers. And people should have the right to charge money for the work they put in.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 8:57 PM

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and again...

vast notch Dec 24, 2016, 9:01 PM

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If Arma 3 server performed as well as it did in 2013, we could all host our servers on ZX Spectrum hardware, sadly this is not the case anymore, unless you have a Xeon now, you will struggle to run anything intensive

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 9:01 PM

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Not to mention, there's not many people that have the patience to stick around and provide player support against glitchers, cheaters, bugs, etc. How many communities do you see sticking around for more than a couple months with any decent population? Let alone a year. How long do you think they will stick around to host arma if they basically have to PAY to work their ass off for hosting?

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That's an important difference between hosting and modding; after the initial setup costs, you don't have to pay anything to continue modding (unless you're doing some pretty impressive stuff with subscription-based software, although I'm not sure anybody does that). You have to continue to pay to host, and on top of that you have to do all the work associated with hosting too.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 9:03 PM

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Having an argument about monetizations:
Only argument: Server Owners need something as compensation for their hobby.

vast notch Dec 24, 2016, 9:03 PM

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This is 2 instances of Arma 3 server on an E5 1620 Xeon machine https://s30.postimg.org/pyjt5ms9t/Clipboard01.jpg

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 9:05 PM

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Eraser1, how old are you?

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 9:06 PM

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It's not about compensating for their hobby. It's about at least mitigating the costs associated with the hobby. Managing a large community can be equated to a full time job. There's not many people who can manage arma servers properly. Even fewer who have the money to pay for the servers out of their own pocket AND manage the servers. If it was only the latter that were able to host, as you are suggesting, the game would be dead.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 9:06 PM

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It's not about compensating for their hobby. ```
It IS.

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If you can't afford your hobby you cant do it

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 9:07 PM

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lol, I don't see how age is relevant in this discussion. But I am old enough, and I have enough experience.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 9:07 PM

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It is a question.

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"i have enough experience" <- lol, i am out. hf

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 9:07 PM

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Perhaps we have a difference of opinion for "compensation". I perceive you mean it as "being paid for". Which, I agree, isn't needed.

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I agree, if you can't afford a hobby, don't do it. Thing is, hosting arma servers can go beyond the definition of "hobby." Same with modding. All I care about is that people have the right to ask for money for the effort they put in. Whether modders or hosters, I don't care.

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OK see ya. If you're going to resort to ad hominem attacks, I don't think our discussion is gonna go anywhere anyways.

stark mulch Dec 24, 2016, 9:17 PM

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its christmas cant we all be nice for a day 😄

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 9:19 PM

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Yeah! I just want a solution where everybody wins 😃

stark mulch Dec 24, 2016, 9:19 PM

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never gunna happen

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but we can hope for a miracle

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 9:21 PM

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For the first day of christmas santa brought to me... a mod in arma that has decent quality

stark mulch Dec 24, 2016, 9:22 PM

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and allows monitization 😄 😄

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 9:27 PM

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😄

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 10:22 PM

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dat 2-3 ms (MoneySeconds) difference

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Sadly, yeah. Thats what i mentioned before.

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:25 PM

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^ Which counts as monetisation :p

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 10:26 PM

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No shit sherlock

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:27 PM

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You're an uncommon one Quiksilver :p

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 10:27 PM

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Our GameServer ran for > a Year only by DONATIONS.

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:27 PM

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I would donate any profit from my servers to the mod makers, if I made any

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 10:27 PM

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Several Peoples. So its not "uncommon"

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:28 PM

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That's not the part I called uncommon 😉 Although good for you. I'm curious how many players you hosted on average though.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 10:29 PM

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Back in the days? About 50-60 (full) during the evening/night

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fluctuation players, so ~80-100

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:30 PM

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Oh really? When was this, and how much did your server cost?

stark mulch Dec 24, 2016, 10:30 PM

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very few people donate for "nothing" these days

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very few

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:31 PM

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^

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 10:31 PM

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Because almost everyone expect something for "a Donation"...

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:31 PM

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That's the point 😉

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 10:31 PM

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Your sentence makes no sense

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:31 PM

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Hosting a server on pure donations would be really easy during the ArmA 2 days. Not feasible anymore.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 10:32 PM

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And?

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Quiksilver - Today at 11:32 PM
"yes im already enjoying your mod/server and hope you're around for a long time, but what do I get for donating?"```
My Answer: "You can play on a Server, you *****?"

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:33 PM

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That's just the mentality these days, as you pointed out earlier Quiksilver. It's unfortunate. Most people don't realize how much work goes into hosting, really. Same with making mods.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 10:34 PM

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Yerp. Then the greed of some ppl kicks in

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"Uh, me can made moneyz from playerzzzz" -> "DonationSHOP" is about to set up -.-

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:35 PM

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I don't think it should be server hosters vs. modders. They're both in the same boat. Modders create content. Hosters make gameplay out of it.

cobalt creek Dec 24, 2016, 10:36 PM

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Mostly, yeah. Quik

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:37 PM

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Lots of people think it's easy to make bank from hosting an ArmA servers. They're usually wrong, or it takes a lot more effort than it's worth. Unless you steal others' stuff and/or host a Life server, which is the same thing 😉

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That seems like an accurate assessment to me Quik. Maybe the top 50 actually bring in money.

stark mulch Dec 24, 2016, 10:41 PM

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i find it odd that GSPs can "sell" other peoples SQF without asking

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:41 PM

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^

stark mulch Dec 24, 2016, 10:41 PM

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labelled under "installaton" fees

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like this
https://www.survivalservers.com/services/game_servers/arma3/custom_modding/
seem abit BS to me...

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:42 PM

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GSPs and certain other "service providers". Not gonna get specific, but that really irks me.

stark mulch Dec 24, 2016, 10:42 PM

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i dont think a company can copyright a programming language 😄

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EU law or something

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:43 PM

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Maca is correct. An EU court ruled that a scripting language cannot be held proprietary.

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scripting/programming

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and I agree. You can call it re-arranging lego blocks, but the stuff that you build IS built by you. BI didn't create it, they just supplied the blocks.

stark mulch Dec 24, 2016, 10:44 PM

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but ye, people complain about server communities running a few reserve slots and yet gsps can do whatever 😛

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and your never going have everyone in agreement. Some people are 100% against monization of arma server, other dont care. No point getting all angry etc. BIS set the rules, its there game so blah

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 10:48 PM

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There's also a small case of a few rotten apples giving the others a bad name. 😉

stark mulch Dec 24, 2016, 10:48 PM

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as is the case in life 😃

hallow frigate Dec 24, 2016, 11:05 PM

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There is a difference between intellectual property and copyright. Intellectual property is part and protected by the UN charta and EU laws, even if you just "re-arrange Lego blocks", which can be months, even years, of work! That's why modders and content makers have basic rights over their creations or “Lego constructions“ - such as licensing.

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 11:06 PM

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^

fossil basalt Dec 24, 2016, 11:11 PM

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Merry Christmas folks. 🎄

hallow frigate Dec 24, 2016, 11:12 PM

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Thanks 😁 Merry Christmas 2 everybody

golden dove Dec 24, 2016, 11:15 PM

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Merry X-mas and happy holidays 😃

carmine folio Dec 25, 2016, 1:25 AM

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Only time/reason I charge to install things (altis life, exile, wasteland, etc.) is for the time I put into it. Even then, I only install the vanilla versions. All mission development needs to be taken care of by the server owners. But I can't fault the GSP's that charge to install scripts as there is a market for server owners that don't know how to manage/dev their own servers.

Therefore, those services exist for people like that. It is not that they are making money by selling the scripts, but rather the labor to install the scripts in a mission file.

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In the beginning I had a system set up where I would put scripts into missions or build custom stuff for people. (90% of my inquiries were life related), but I stopped doing that as the requests became quite extensive and nobody was willing to pay for the hours that needed to be put in to develop the scripts that they wanted.

Not only did it take time to build the script, but to become familiar with the mission file, implement the script, and test it (with x, y, and z bugs already there in your way)

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Just wasn't a good application of my time.

carmine folio Dec 25, 2016, 4:43 AM

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Can i do that?

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LICENSE: I ask for nothing, you don't need to give credits or mantain the name BRPVP, you can change anything, use any part of it in any other project, but you need to recpect extDB3 license.

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Merry Christmas!

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HA HA

golden dove Dec 25, 2016, 5:19 AM

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Garrett, I am firmly against installing/setting up for other people. Teaching them is great, but doing stuff for them will only result in a greater self-entitled attitude. ArmA doesn't need any more one-click owners, it needs more people who are willing to learn what to do and how to do it.

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Yes, there is a market for charging people for installing scripts. But in my opinion, it's unethical. And in some cases, illegal, as dictated by the licenses of some mods/addons

carmine folio Dec 25, 2016, 5:44 AM

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Trust me @eraser1 I am all about teaching. I rarely have to install things for people (maybe 1 every couple months) as I attempt to help with guiding them through the process, as it not only helps them, but it helps me so I don't have to answer questions in the future that they would've known, had they set it up themselves. So I do my best to guide and not do things for people. It may take just as long, mostly longer to explain it and teach, along with the fact I'm not getting paid for my time to teach, where I would if I did it for them. So financially it would be better to just do it for them and charge, but ethically and personally, I prefer to teach and take the time to help. That's just the type of person I am.

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Although you have to remember that everyone has different purposes for their servers. Over 80% of my servers are 10 slots. Meaning they are for small groups of friends or units and they are more into playing than managing a server. Not only do I try to make it as accessible and affordable as possible, but I do my best to help if needed. Teach first from me for sure. I love to give great detail about what I do if I need to intervene in their server ownership. Last thing I want to be is a GSP with shitty, impersonal, mentality.

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Anyway, off to bed. Merry Christmas to everyone!

candid acorn Dec 26, 2016, 1:26 PM

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Ewww

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GSPS

vestal walrus Dec 28, 2016, 1:14 PM

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Is it okey to "borrow" bohemia function in the game and remake them aslong as you credit them?

tender hawk Dec 28, 2016, 2:10 PM

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Define "borrow" here... unless you meant tweaking of one from the vanilla game?

supple merlin Dec 28, 2016, 4:04 PM

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@tender hawk you know borrow, like take the models and import them into another game.. 😃 Nah, jk

vestal walrus Dec 29, 2016, 2:15 AM

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No i mean tweaking it and putting it in vanilla game

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@tender hawk

fervent needle Dec 29, 2016, 5:09 AM

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functions? we had this convo way up but bohemia doesn't really say you can but also they don't punish or go after people

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Like if you wanted to modify bis_fnc_findsafepos and call it like zor_findsafepos with extra checks and what not, it won't get you in trouble as long as its not passed off as yours

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they have to say you can't mess with their files to better protect themselves and you cant modify models etc so yea, you should be able to without worry @vestal walrus

vestal walrus Dec 29, 2016, 11:25 AM

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@fervent needle Exactly something I would like to do, use something like a BIS_fnc_initDisplay or whatever and just port that into e.g.: zor_fnc_initDisplay

dull moon Dec 29, 2016, 12:02 PM

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as long as you give propper credits

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the functions and scripts are accessable to everyone, not encrypted or such

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so it's not a problem imo

proud flicker Jan 2, 2017, 10:33 AM

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Heya, not sure if this is the correct place here, but I have a question regarding the copyright to my own character models.

I've made character models entriely from scratch, but they (arguably) depend on copy+pasted data from the arma3 sample character for hands and legs (head is thankfully a proxy).

Do I retain 100% ownership of my models, even though I am using A3 sample data? Or would I have to create my own hand models that match the UV's of the samples' to get a 100% claim here? I am unsure about the licensing of the A3 samples, it seems to be APL, but even the dumbed down summary is too much legalese for me.

tulip nexus Jan 2, 2017, 2:57 PM

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the license info in the Test_Character_01 folder's readme is basically the same APL by the looks, but without the Attribution clause

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no mention of share-alike

proud flicker Jan 2, 2017, 3:01 PM

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👍

#

Did a re-read of the license text, and my conclusion is:

It is perfectly fine to claim the work as my own, as long as I indicate clearly the hands are from the sample models, provide a reference/link to these sample models and to make sure my custom license does not collide with APL's terms.

fervent needle Jan 5, 2017, 12:57 AM

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I don't run a server but this thought came to mind when I was looking at one of those gleam.io giveaway things. They had entries for a giveaway for w/e and then a bonus for twitch subscribers etc. how would that play related to arma servers, like if someone donated to you could you give them an extra slot in a raffle or something?
Like if regular players had one spot and if someone had previously donated they had 2? Im curious if it would break the monitization rule or not as its non exclusive or w/e

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Not that I have any use or intention of doing something like that, but I am at work and bored so I thought I would see if anyone has any insights to the topic

dull moon Jan 5, 2017, 1:56 AM

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@fervent needle
https://www.bistudio.com/monetization/faq

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https://www.bistudio.com/monetization/faq#c5

#

btw guys, i've found a damn amazing website. no matter what the question is, you will have an answer right away. god damn it... if i just had found it earlier!!!!11!111!ONE
http://bit.ly/1dNVPAW

clear mulch Jan 5, 2017, 2:11 AM

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oh you... why am I clicking short links , cant unsee

dull moon Jan 5, 2017, 2:18 AM

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btw, like my link? @cobalt creek 😂

cobalt creek Jan 5, 2017, 2:18 AM

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😄

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Awesome one! Best site of the internetz

dull moon Jan 5, 2017, 2:33 AM

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since this is all neuland many new sites appear out of nowhere 😄

cobalt creek Jan 5, 2017, 2:36 AM

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\o/ !NEULAND! \o/

fervent needle Jan 5, 2017, 6:10 AM

#

Thanks I guess but it doesn't entirely answer my question as I had already looked at it... I suppose if something was ongoing it could be a perk as it would be purchasing something as a second entry or what have you. Which is why I said "previously" as in they donated as a voluntary gift and nothing was given. So would that not be considered a donation anymore, does it revoke and you broke the rules or what?

And @Chris Lutz (audiocustoms)#5482 thanks for your amazing website, if I only I had found a specific answer there I wouldn't have to ask here. Everything on the monitization site implies you are donating and recieving something back for that donation you just made, that would be a perk or fall under monitization. What I was asking is if someone had donated in the past and then you did something like a giveaway or what have you. They donated without expecting something and nothing was given and down the line someone were to do this, is that too much of a grey area to get a clear answer or does BI class it as breaking the donation/monitzation rules.

In the end I suppose it doesn't matter at all either way because they are being reformatted at the end of this month.

vagrant stag Jan 5, 2017, 11:34 AM

#

Does arma 3 project life still charge people from playing on their servers?

cobalt creek Jan 5, 2017, 11:45 AM

#

Is it cold as f... at the northpole?

vagrant stag Jan 6, 2017, 9:32 AM

#

I dont live at the northpole 😛

misty mantle Jan 6, 2017, 10:36 AM

#

Does that mean in 50 years the life com is good ?

echo orchid Jan 6, 2017, 11:58 AM

#

nevah

carmine folio Jan 6, 2017, 10:36 PM

#

Go go go Life!

frail pecan Jan 9, 2017, 7:41 AM

#

@vagrant stag it does the $30 pay wall

fickle ivy Jan 11, 2017, 11:51 PM

#

its not like a wall. Its more like some hightech sociology filter membrane - it lets idiots through and sane persons get repelled by it. ❤

wooden ingot Jan 14, 2017, 4:05 PM

#

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=840539198 ACE team might be interested in it

dusk dew Jan 15, 2017, 5:51 AM

#

All rights belong to the ACE2 Team.?

fossil basalt Jan 15, 2017, 8:08 AM

#

Nou has been notified

fossil basalt Jan 15, 2017, 8:45 AM

#

except when you reupload something thats not yours to Steam (if thats the case here), then you run afoul of Valve as well.

dull moon Jan 15, 2017, 8:52 PM

#

BURN IT WITH FIRE!!!
Wait... What's the subject again??

cobalt creek Jan 15, 2017, 8:58 PM

#

Life

dull moon Jan 15, 2017, 9:00 PM

#

BURN IT!

cobalt creek Jan 15, 2017, 9:01 PM

#

🔥

dull moon Jan 15, 2017, 9:04 PM

#

🍖

vagrant stag Jan 16, 2017, 4:14 AM

#

https://i.gyazo.com/bb06dc2748267461cc6188ff3512c6b9.png

#

seriosly? arma 3 project life is pissing me off. They still charge money for playing on a fucking server.

fossil basalt Jan 16, 2017, 7:47 AM

#

IF they are playing by the rules, they ARE allowed to charge access.

carmine folio Jan 16, 2017, 12:35 PM

#

Yes but this is crap giant fat balls of lazy blubber, and get rich quick schemes. It's disgusting.

#

@vagrant stag

fossil basalt Jan 16, 2017, 1:23 PM

#

I agree, but according to the current rules, they're allowed (doesn't mean I have to agree with them though).

fervent needle Jan 16, 2017, 10:47 PM

#

Jan 31st, new BI rules will come into place

#

They might changeup, that could be against the rules

echo orchid Jan 16, 2017, 10:52 PM

#

doubt it

cobalt creek Jan 16, 2017, 11:06 PM

#

"same procedure as every year"

fervent needle Jan 17, 2017, 4:12 AM

#

I can dream guys

#

Thanks for the words of encouragement ❤️

#

Lol

nova sleet Jan 17, 2017, 10:34 AM

#

Sigh. It seems all the life community exists for is money

dull moon Jan 17, 2017, 10:39 AM

#

"i need to sell overpriced perks to run my server"

#

sad thing is, ben seems to be right. i've never heard or even played on a milsim server who had this kind of attitude

#

it was and is like: "hey guys, end of the month is near. if you like the server and want to keep playing on it, we would be happy for some small donations."

#

my last community i was in even released a monthly donation report. a summary of all costs we have plus all income from donators.

#

100% transparency

dull moon Jan 17, 2017, 11:00 AM

#

i left due lack of time

#

my job is / was very consuming

#

not at all. they are still pretty active

#

TF47

proud charm Jan 17, 2017, 11:13 AM

#

Well we got a lot of donations back then in the arma 2 days had even a couple of hundreds dollars saved up.. Currently there is not even a Donation button due to there is no need for it. (Task Force 47)

dull moon Jan 17, 2017, 11:14 AM

#

👍

proud charm Jan 17, 2017, 11:14 AM

#

Btw. Chris I am active there again.. Maybe you want to come back too. :p

dull moon Jan 17, 2017, 11:16 AM

#

not sure if i can handle more stress atm. even job + cup + RL is too much right now 😄

vast notch Jan 17, 2017, 11:43 AM

#

We run Arma PvP only servers, we have a donation button on our website, players donate to keep the servers running, then ask "what do I get" 😡 it started around the DayZ mod time imo

#

Our servers and website rely on your donations to keep us running, our servers currently cost around €300 per month.

Goal amount: €300.00 for 3 dedis Goal date: Sat at 0:00 €239.00 donated 😭

wheat wave Jan 17, 2017, 11:51 AM

#

@fervent needle where did you read about new monetization rules coming the 31st?

vast notch Jan 17, 2017, 11:55 AM

#

I think he means this "The permission is given for a limited time. It will expire on January 31st 2017." from https://www.bistudio.com/monetization which doesn't mention changes @wheat wave

wheat wave Jan 17, 2017, 11:57 AM

#

i see

#

👌

fossil basalt Jan 17, 2017, 1:47 PM

#

Would be nice if we got flamethrowers on Feb 1st 🔥

nova drift Jan 17, 2017, 2:22 PM

#

For Arma 3 it looks like they might be removing it as they removed the part about evaluating the effects on the community and it being a test.

"The permission is given for a limited time. It will expire on January 31st 2017."

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 3:19 PM

#

@nova drift Don't plant any hope-seeds in my heart.

nova drift Jan 17, 2017, 3:31 PM

#

@cobalt creek lol no hope, Just calling it like I see it. 😍

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 3:39 PM

#

😄

echo orchid Jan 17, 2017, 4:00 PM

#

i see it precisely the other way around, it will go from being limited time to permanent, but anyways

nova drift Jan 17, 2017, 4:09 PM

#

I say keep it and open up the Incubator program for external teams. 🤑

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 4:10 PM

#

Wanna team up? Make some 💵 💵 💵 💵 😄

nova drift Jan 17, 2017, 4:10 PM

#

However the hope and promise from back in the day is diminishing:
"I think the next big thing could be opening up Arma 3 to paid user-made content. It’s great to see talented mod-makers pulling off amazing missions, add-ons and mods as free content, but if we manage to find some incentive for the best mod-makers to develop more content, I think we can raise the bar even higher. I want to push this effort in two distinct ways, and I consider these as a priority for next year. We are going to announce more specific details in the coming months."
https://arma3.com/news/report-in-marek-spanel-ceo#.WH49OvkrKkx

#

@cobalt creek Yes, but lets not get our hopes up.

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 4:11 PM

#

*2013 <- :/

carmine folio Jan 17, 2017, 4:12 PM

#

they probably dropped the idea after the skyrim fiasco

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 4:12 PM

#

The same thing came in my mind, when i read 2013.

nova drift Jan 17, 2017, 4:12 PM

#

That lasted 4 days...

#

No one really gave it a chance

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 4:13 PM

#

but tbh, it was flooded with expensive and below-average stuff.

#

No real "moderation" of it.

#

This must be handled first

nova drift Jan 17, 2017, 4:15 PM

#

But you are likely right @carmine folio and now seems everyone is too scared to touch it.

#

The #1 rule, should have been: if it was free before it must stay free.

fervent needle Jan 17, 2017, 4:16 PM

#

didn't someone rip content with the skyrim mods and put it up for sale or something

#

or maybe just like really overpriced

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 4:18 PM

#

I quote myself:
"No real "moderation" of it."

nova drift Jan 17, 2017, 4:18 PM

#

Yes, basically a few people ruined the concept for everyone, and everyone pounced on Steam for it and steam said, Nope.

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 4:18 PM

#

everyone was able to do what he wanted, from what i've heard.

nova drift Jan 17, 2017, 4:19 PM

#

Ya it was poorly moderated and setup as there should have been a "pay what you want" option that allowed "free" as an option and it wasn't used or people did not use it.

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 4:19 PM

#

oh my

fossil basalt Jan 17, 2017, 5:14 PM

#

Let me "moderate" it 😉

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 5:16 PM

#

let ME moderate it! 😄

vagrant stag Jan 17, 2017, 5:47 PM

#

If BIS or mod devs dont pursue legal actions against life communities then they will see BIS or any other part will not do anything to stop them soo they will continiue to break the rules and more and more communities will charge for money because BIS/Mod devs dont do anything

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 6:19 PM

#

Exactly. Why should i struggle with some nutjobs in my freetime?

fossil basalt Jan 17, 2017, 6:46 PM

#

As long as they are abiding by the rules and rule of law, I doubt BI will get involved @vagrant stag
However, if they are violating the rights of mod makers, they deserve every bit of legal trouble thrown their way.

echo orchid Jan 17, 2017, 7:30 PM

#

@vagrant stag @carmine folio i do spend a lot of time handing over DMCAs and cease and desists

#

did it help? yes. will it stop? no

fervent needle Jan 17, 2017, 7:59 PM

#

pauses modded copy of rhs upload to workshop

fossil basalt Jan 17, 2017, 8:01 PM

#

Considering the seriousness of it all, it's probably not the best joke to make.

echo orchid Jan 17, 2017, 8:16 PM

#

😉 it's ok, steam likes me a lot, they are very very quick about it

dull moon Jan 17, 2017, 9:18 PM

#

hehe, tell me about it :D
oh no, not him again...

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 9:59 PM

#

Thats what she said

#

erm... i ... erm... i gotta go.

carmine folio Jan 17, 2017, 10:29 PM

#

What are the new monetization rules?

fossil basalt Jan 17, 2017, 10:30 PM

#

I dont think we'll know until the 31st

carmine folio Jan 17, 2017, 10:35 PM

#

Okey dokey. Just by the way you guys were talking, seemed like you knew.

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 10:40 PM

#

2 weeks left.

#

🤞 hope for removing it 🤞

carmine folio Jan 17, 2017, 11:42 PM

#

@cobalt creek They're going to remove it?

#

Woohoo!

#

No more charging crap.

#

Actually more profitable method for Monotization would be BI started getting paybacks if the communities are earning much more than their server costs.

#

And by much more I much a lot more think Asylum servers etc

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 11:43 PM

#

Both things won't happen (removing + payback)

carmine folio Jan 17, 2017, 11:44 PM

#

So BI is now deciding to remove the Monotization all together?

#

Link?

gritty path Jan 17, 2017, 11:47 PM

#

Monetize it all. Just do it, it'll settle down after a while.

#

runs away laughing...

cobalt creek Jan 17, 2017, 11:56 PM

#

GeekyGuy5401 - Today at 12:44 AM
So BI is now deciding to remove the Monotization all together?
Link?```
Where do you get that???

fossil basalt Jan 18, 2017, 7:13 AM

#

No one said it was being removed. The discussion revolved around the last sentence on the Arma 3 Monetisation page
"The permission is given for a limited time. It will expire on January 31st 2017."

tender hawk Jan 18, 2017, 7:19 AM

#

Which IIRC is the same thing Bohemia said the year before minus filing off the 7 for a 6

fossil basalt Jan 18, 2017, 7:24 AM

#

Wouldn't surprise me

carmine folio Jan 18, 2017, 9:15 PM

#

As one sayd me, they will just renew the monetization period.

#

Monetization is a must!

cobalt creek Jan 18, 2017, 9:17 PM

#

pff

#

"must"

#

...

proud charm Jan 18, 2017, 9:31 PM

#

lol

vagrant stag Jan 19, 2017, 8:41 AM

#

@cobalt creek Wanna start a life community and earn some $$$?

#

just kidding 😛

undone pier Jan 19, 2017, 9:44 AM

#

can I get some opinions on the models from this, Jason Ohonowskyj, guy on that site:
http://tf3dm.com/user/jasonowen

#

is the site legit at all?
what means "personal use" only?
wasnt this the guy some suggested it contains models from BI?

heavy moon Jan 19, 2017, 10:18 AM

#

looks like at least some are BI models,. if you look at the FV510 Warrior,. the textures he supplies are 1:1 with the textures for the FV510 contained in BAF expansion

#

http://imageshack.com/a/img923/5416/8ju6EV.png

#

side by side in ps ^

#

and where do you see the "personal use" part? everytime I click to go to the T&C page it puts me back onto their front page..

clear mulch Jan 19, 2017, 10:42 AM

#

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=633789490

#

Fallujah on SW and not from Shezan

#

reported it but I can't submit DMCA on it... @pliant oar ^

#

damn lots of reuploads of it on SW...

#

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=107410&searchtext=fallujah&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=textsearch&section=items&requiredtags[]=Terrain

undone pier Jan 19, 2017, 12:52 PM

#

@heavy moon on the right side when you are on a content page
http://tf3dm.com/3d-model/uk-ww-2-spitfire-mk-1-64128.html

UK WW 2 Spitfire MK 1 - 3d model - .3ds, .obj, .dae, .max, .c4d,...

Free Download, 3d UK WW 2 Spitfire MK 1 model available in 3ds, obj, dae, max, c4d, tga, sldprt format and made with Cinema 4d.

#

to get the other pages to work one has to get an account ..

cobalt creek Jan 19, 2017, 1:49 PM

#

@vagrant stag Me is in, me wanna maike maneeeeeyyyyyzzzz 💵 💵 💵

tulip nexus Jan 19, 2017, 3:02 PM

#

@undone pier models ripped from games are extremely common on that site

undone pier Jan 19, 2017, 4:11 PM

#

@tulip nexus thanks. we think we found the said uploader/author. he seems to work for an UK game dev studio. we will see how it goes from here

carmine folio Jan 19, 2017, 4:49 PM

#

@cobalt creek really, start by reading the monetization rules.

cobalt creek Jan 19, 2017, 5:07 PM

#

@carmine folio 99% of the time: I have no fucking clue what you want. Rly, no idea! Not even close.

dull moon Jan 19, 2017, 5:15 PM

#

he want's you to be gentle to him 😄

cobalt creek Jan 19, 2017, 5:17 PM

#

I hope not 😄

carmine folio Jan 19, 2017, 5:39 PM

#

@cobalt creek You is ridiculous.

cobalt creek Jan 19, 2017, 5:39 PM

#

wtf man?

fossil basalt Jan 19, 2017, 7:05 PM

#

It's a language barrier. Have patience.

clear mulch Jan 19, 2017, 9:41 PM

#

yeah dont be a dick, he is a good guy

cobalt creek Jan 19, 2017, 9:43 PM

#

Prolly, still doesn't change the fact that i have mostly no clue what he is talking about or what his point is ^^

waxen canopy Jan 20, 2017, 11:36 PM

#

i think someone should shut this user down

#

Searched a bit more, the guy exported half of the game assets, those rocks, trees, plants etc

#

as i found those other models I'm going to send BI an email

mellow sun Jan 21, 2017, 12:46 AM

#

God these life communities are rich... "You are granting us with a non-exclusive, permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content in connection with the Service. You retain copyright over the Content."

#

"irrevocable, unlimited license"..........................."you retain copyright over the content".................... 😆

waxen canopy Jan 21, 2017, 1:01 AM

#

😂

winter gulch Jan 22, 2017, 1:06 PM

#

came across these while browsing for 3D models
http://tf3dm.com/user/azlyirnizam/models/7

#

look alot like BI animals, also a few pages of what looks like previous versions of ArmA

coral torrent Jan 22, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

I would guess that BI bought this model for example: http://tf3dm.com/3d-model/alsatian-12023.html and not the otherway around

echo orchid Jan 22, 2017, 1:59 PM

#

lol ^

fierce swan Jan 22, 2017, 4:04 PM

#

I don't know if this is the right place for this, but someone just made me aware of some interesting assets in the game "Way of Hero".

#

https://youtu.be/Js0bImJ7hP4?t=118 The picture in the top left looks a lot like an ArmA 2 avatar

#

https://youtu.be/Js0bImJ7hP4?t=1067 That looks a lot like the C-130 model from ArmA 2

#

@pliant oar might be worth having a look at

tender hawk Jan 22, 2017, 4:51 PM

#

@fierce swan Dunno about the C-130 model but the thread started by Serpico's Beard verifies the A2 avatar part as specifically being from OA, the image in question linked by cmbunit01: http://www.arma2.com/assets/img/post/stories/armaOAfeatures/A2OA_ingame_screenshot_01.jpg

echo orchid Jan 22, 2017, 9:49 PM

#

@carmine folio yeah should have thought of that...oh wait, i have

fervent needle Feb 1, 2017, 2:17 AM

#

So new monetization rules went into play today, the only changes I see is that all ported content from bohemia games released under their apl has to be allowed to monetized on approved servers, besides locking out a server to paying players only

#

Any other changes I might have missed?

gritty path Feb 1, 2017, 2:33 AM

#

@fervent needle you have linkage?

fervent needle Feb 1, 2017, 4:08 AM

#

@gritty path https://www.bistudio.com/monetization/faq the second one seems updated

amber ibex Feb 1, 2017, 4:14 AM

#

reading through this first time as ... got nothing to do
a forum "badge" saying eg. donator is really not covered?
seems kinda weird

fervent needle Feb 1, 2017, 5:43 AM

#

thats fine, as its not ingame benefits plus thats not even under BIS

amber ibex Feb 1, 2017, 6:30 AM

#

it is

#

check the faq

#

Monetization happens when players, unlike with donations, receive some kind of reward or perk for their money. This requires our approval. Some examples of allowed rewards are perks which do not affect gameplay, e.g. custom textures, skins, forum badges, reserved slots, product placement, in-game advertising and sponsorship. You can also sell in-game items which do not affect gameplay in any way (e.g. special hats, designed shirts with logos, etc.) – generally everything cosmetic is allowed.

#

forum badges

fervent needle Feb 1, 2017, 6:34 AM

#

It could be donate to support the community and not be arma related, then BIS wouldnt have control but either way its allowed

amber ibex Feb 1, 2017, 6:36 AM

#

if it is to pay the server rent and in return as thx they get a donor forum title, that would be monetizatin according to that text

fervent needle Feb 1, 2017, 6:43 AM

#

Yup, it can be. Either way its allowed

#

So no harm

vast notch Feb 1, 2017, 9:47 AM

#

The wording is confusing, but giving donators perks on your forum/website/TeamSpeak/Discord etc is beyond the reach of Bohemia Interactive, unless someone has managed to integrate a forum into Arma 3 😄

carmine folio Feb 1, 2017, 11:33 AM

#

@fervent needle the FAQ second question just says you can use the licensed data on a Monitize server. It also says you need permission of authors for derived work.
The locking out part has been there for awhile now

outer slate Feb 1, 2017, 8:30 PM

#

Look at these clowns
http://viruzmod.com/changelog/170-another-dmca-desperate-mode-on-2-0

gaunt geode Feb 1, 2017, 8:47 PM

#

smh tbh fam

stark silo Feb 1, 2017, 8:52 PM

#

They are so ignorant to their own mistakes, it's all about how "unsuccessful" other people are compared to them... which is not true at all.

vast notch Feb 1, 2017, 8:54 PM

#

@outer slate https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=852568575&searchtext=

outer slate Feb 1, 2017, 8:58 PM

#

I know Dave

fervent needle Feb 1, 2017, 9:29 PM

#

Exile not getting updated because they are riding the success of the original dev

#

sigh people lol

stark silo Feb 1, 2017, 9:33 PM

#

The funny thing is, they haven't released any real statement of BI clearing them. Last email I received was they were still investigating.

stark silo Feb 2, 2017, 1:06 AM

#

lol

gritty path Feb 2, 2017, 1:14 AM

#

:epicfacepalm:

#

i truly was not aware people are surviving on ArmA modding. i should redo my life goals, seems promising.

heavy moon Feb 2, 2017, 1:19 AM

#

we're doin it wrong :/

amber ibex Feb 2, 2017, 1:22 AM

#

wait wait wait ... i can make hell lotta money from arma modding?

#

where do i have to sign?

#

knew i got tricket like always ....

#

well ... back to work
cash is not growing on trees (--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBgp5aDH23g )

#

shame

#

got ~150€ by a nice donor

#

funny thing is: this shit is motivating like fucking hell for some reason

#

maybe ... maybe because you got money 🤔

#

for your hobby

#

thats why i also started developing tools ... though ... new gf took hell lotta ammount of time since it started

gritty path Feb 2, 2017, 1:28 AM

#

lol, that wouldn't even be worth the headache.

heavy moon Feb 2, 2017, 1:30 AM

#

they dont get headaches though, they just take everyone elses work and use it. then charge $15 for something already available in the base game.

gritty path Feb 2, 2017, 1:30 AM

#

oh thats right, we're not supposed to do it properly. well in that case, perhaps worth part time muckery.

#

well, in all honesty it's a tough spot for them either way.

amber ibex Feb 2, 2017, 1:33 AM

#

tbh ... the most simple way you can implement this is by using stuff that is inbuilt ...

#

it is fairly simple to check which servers are using your mods

#

and ppl stealing your IP wont bother removing those things

#

the prob: you need a server
and you will be tracking who is using your mod

#

which will require reputation if you do not want havoc of the mob raining over you

#

highly doubt thats true either

#

it is a bad excuse for not doing anything

#

that is all

#

ever saw the hate a modder will receive for adding a donate button? "blablabla only monez he wants thats it"

#

"fix mod then you get monez"

#

if you really want to make money via modding, head over to selling scripts

#

or create a simple bloody web interface

#

without any use

#

ppl will pay you $$$

#

but modding ... hell ... as modder you are just that asshole whoose mod is never working

#

all bugged through

#

and 100% he is again not fixing that issue in next patch

#

cannot remember who it was

#

but remember the shitstorm

#

like 2 years ago? idk

gritty path Feb 2, 2017, 1:41 AM

#

lol

amber ibex Feb 2, 2017, 1:41 AM

#

luckily nobody could use my work right now :3
there is nothing published which is up to date

#

so no need to worry about IP violation

#

maybe if they use some of the garbage models i created

#

but hell why would i care bout that .... took me 3 minutes to trash em together

gritty path Feb 2, 2017, 1:44 AM

#

monetize it all!

#

runs away..

heavy moon Feb 2, 2017, 1:45 AM

#

the system is there in the workshop,. no developer got the nuts to use it other than valve after the skyrim shitfest over it.

gritty path Feb 2, 2017, 1:45 AM

#

yerp.. i was kinda looking forward to that. weren't a couple others doing it also? Chivalry or someone else...

heavy moon Feb 2, 2017, 1:46 AM

#

yeah, skyrims poor implementation and launch of it scared people off

amber ibex Feb 2, 2017, 1:48 AM

#

20% share to the dev?

#

100$ limit for payout?

#

great idea

#

20% is too much for share

#

1% would have been better

#

so ... to get out of the sarcasm ... the system failed due to the share cut

#

you cannot provide a modder with nothing and take the whole money out of it

#

valves default cut of 30% was to much

#

bethesdas cut of fucking even more also

tulip nexus Feb 2, 2017, 1:50 AM

#

The payout thing was the worst of it. You don't see a cent of it until you earn $400 for Steam and their partners? Fuck that

amber ibex Feb 2, 2017, 1:50 AM

#

the price for a single sword had to be 1$*1.8 just to make any profit out of that crap

#

ehh ... gah ... im stupid XD

#

not even got the calculation right

#

1/0,2 for 1$ profit per sale

#

so .... if you want 1$ you need to charge 5$

#

want 20ct? still have to charge 1$

#

but all that is not rly stuff of ip violations and does not belongs to here

tulip nexus Feb 2, 2017, 1:53 AM

#

then you have to accumulate 100 sales, or 500 sales respectively before you see any return

#

then the same next month

#

that was the steam workshop pay policy

#

they wouldn't send payment to your account under $100

fossil basalt Feb 2, 2017, 9:19 AM

#

Trap

nova drift Feb 2, 2017, 1:55 PM

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Looking at the viruz_mod.pbo files it looks like it is based on a copy/paste of DayZ Mod with some find and replace added... I don't think they are aware that DayZ Mod was not licensed APL-SA, that work is licensed DML and the license states the work must stay in Arma 2...

cobalt creek Feb 2, 2017, 2:33 PM

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100.000$ !!!!!11111oneoneone

fervent needle Feb 2, 2017, 2:33 PM

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Yep, has dayz mod and exile files direct copied and changed names

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But he is going after people for 100k so big man

cobalt creek Feb 2, 2017, 2:36 PM

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@nova drift Just guess, why i rewrote the whole 2017mod Script stuff from scratch -.- The other Mr. "UberCoder" just copy/pasted stuff from DayZ-Mod... You remember @heavy moon ? 😄

pliant oar Feb 2, 2017, 2:44 PM

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the sounds were funny too 😉 just took them and ran thru some filter/conversion , so they have different filesize / hashes 😉 then argue it's not the same

cobalt creek Feb 2, 2017, 2:45 PM

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Rly? Oh boy, thats pathetic.

pliant oar Feb 2, 2017, 2:46 PM

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they already complained to us about the DMCA someone else filled ... i really wanted to answer "thanks for reminding us, we forgot to add our DMCA yet"

cobalt creek Feb 2, 2017, 2:47 PM

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I would start laughing, if one of those guys is currently in Discord and read that 😄

fervent needle Feb 2, 2017, 3:56 PM

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Where is your donate button for that comment Dwarden? Lol

pliant oar Feb 2, 2017, 4:36 PM

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need to slap his paypal button on the imaginary Discord profile field asap

proud charm Feb 2, 2017, 5:24 PM

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hahahaha... 😄

tulip nexus Feb 2, 2017, 5:52 PM

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You mean that's not how someone gets Veteran status here already?

fossil basalt Feb 2, 2017, 6:02 PM

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Um, no

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😂

pliant oar Feb 2, 2017, 6:52 PM

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sounds like plan, selling badges on Discord 😉 for profit 🤣

coral torrent Feb 2, 2017, 6:55 PM

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I buy 10 badges for 5000 money

fervent needle Feb 2, 2017, 6:55 PM

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Now now you must apply for monetization approval from BI 😉

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Once thats done ill buy some badges

pliant oar Feb 2, 2017, 6:58 PM

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not monetizing any BI content nor engine 😉

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oh wait, using copyprotected game name in name of discord ... busted

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dreams of $ mountains ruined

real oyster Feb 2, 2017, 6:59 PM

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oh noes

fervent needle Feb 2, 2017, 7:23 PM

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Rip

vast notch Feb 2, 2017, 8:09 PM

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I thought you dreamt of 🍫 mountains @pliant oar ?

heavy moon Feb 2, 2017, 8:20 PM

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@cobalt creek yep that guy pretty much copypasted everything and said it was his own

fossil basalt Feb 2, 2017, 8:42 PM

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Kill... it.... with... FIRE 🔥 (the mod not an actual human)

proud charm Feb 2, 2017, 8:55 PM

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If dwarden knows about it can he not just kill it ? 😄

fossil basalt Feb 2, 2017, 9:11 PM

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I'm sure it's in another departments hands.

pliant oar Feb 2, 2017, 9:12 PM

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wish he could kill everything bad he knew about ... the Sol would be nicer place for generations to come ...

hallow lark Feb 2, 2017, 9:45 PM

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Annoying watching the ViruZ guys opening alternate workshops while they were under dmca. Its going to take more than a sw removal to stop them.

outer slate Feb 2, 2017, 11:27 PM

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DayZ Standalone team needs to get after them as well

carmine folio Feb 3, 2017, 12:50 AM

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I allways get sad when someone don't get rich... BOOO HOOOO! :(

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I wish everyone tons of money and goldus.

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I don't think you understand the issue @carmine folio. Stealing other peoples work and passing it off as your own is not right.

fossil basalt Feb 3, 2017, 7:30 AM

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^

carmine folio Feb 3, 2017, 9:18 AM

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https://twitter.com/Arma3official/status/827445801945292800

Twitter

@Arma3official

Arma 3

The server monetization program for #Arma3 was extended without policy changes. Read more: https://t.co/3iu1EXuorp

carmine folio Feb 3, 2017, 10:11 AM

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@carmine folio you will never see kju or commy2 saying good words about his works, so the sadness is already setted for hin.

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💚

noble flare Feb 3, 2017, 10:33 AM

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Wonder what they made out of their 'evaluation' this year, only took them 3 days to change 2017 -> 2018

carmine folio Feb 3, 2017, 10:42 AM

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i think they had a good laught over the kids shitting their pants

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 10:47 AM

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I don't think there was any attention at all^^

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Just a "Oh, new year, lets change it from 2017 to 2018, should be enough"

noble flare Feb 3, 2017, 10:49 AM

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Yep, just the same as last year..

"We will evaluate its effects on the community." 🙃

undone pier Feb 3, 2017, 11:55 AM

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@Donnovan#6284 what relation does commy2 or I have in regards to the tweet or PU's work? (PS: we have cooperated with BR and helped them several times here and there a little)

hallow lark Feb 3, 2017, 11:56 AM

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Anyone read that monetization petition? $5000 for aaa life servers... ;p

undone pier Feb 3, 2017, 11:57 AM

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if you refer to yourself - if you didnt like my advice to try something else as the time for yet another survival and gathering game mode is past. what you do with feedback is up to yourself - seems you didnt take it well though/didnt learn how to make use of feedback

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@pliant oar any policy changes coming with mods?

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 1:40 PM

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good grief....
so the effects on the community were beneficial then

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really?

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all in all why the fuck can some monetize a server and another cannot monetize an addon then...should be the same for everyone, or none at all...

fervent needle Feb 3, 2017, 2:17 PM

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I would be in favor of a lite/regular type mod system

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Lite is free and regular is just a dollar or two, its not game breaking but its a simple solution

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Basically upgraded textures etc

faint nacelle Feb 3, 2017, 2:19 PM

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whole lot of work to make 2 versions of everything

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for a dollar or 2

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 2:20 PM

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dude, does BI imposes a dollar or two for servers? nope...why would it impose it for addons to begin with

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sure that will most likely lead to even more headaches, especially IP related, but then so what....the life community is full of illegal ports, ripped content and half assed shit...no one seem to care...

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i keep hearing yeah but server costs are higher than content making costs...also admining servers is also a lot more time consuming

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pukes internally

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yeah, i am well aware the entire skyrim fuck-up, hence i would have expected BI to cut the monetization altogether

heavy moon Feb 3, 2017, 2:28 PM

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software licences for applications to create addons are expensive as fuck,. servers are peanuts.

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and a3tools only exist to port stuff into engine.

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 2:33 PM

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@heavy moon yeah captain obvious that is what i mean 😛

heavy moon Feb 3, 2017, 2:33 PM

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hehe 😛

fervent needle Feb 3, 2017, 2:51 PM

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Regular to lite would be like smearing out textures or something, but I do wish there was something better in place, or if people werent selfish and donated to the creators if they used their mods on their servers

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Yea servers cost a bit and donations are needed for the smaller/medium servers but you dont hear any large servers complaining because the money is rolling

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Agreed, the software is way expensive, no solution in sight :/

undone pier Feb 3, 2017, 3:10 PM

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@faint nacelle to make LITE textures you simply run imageToPAA with a parameter. thats it. see:
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/LITE_mod_version_creation_guide

LITE mod version creation guide

faint nacelle Feb 3, 2017, 3:19 PM

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Well thats simple then. But still it would be extra work to maintain 2 versions etc etc. Would it be worth it?

fervent needle Feb 3, 2017, 3:57 PM

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Yes lol

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Batch file to run through and compile up a lite mod

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Basically how dlc worked in A2, low res textures for dayz mod usage then dlc got you the nice ones

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:09 PM

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@echo orchid

i keep hearing yeah but server costs are higher than content making costs...also admining servers is also a lot more time consuming
pukes internally```
Agree, the worst fkn excuses ever...

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:28 PM

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And?

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Again: Those, who can not afford a Server -> Can't have a Server. End of discussion.

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 5:29 PM

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@carmine folio - really? a lot of modders do have their own servers

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:29 PM

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+btw. I had a Server running to Test MP-Stuff, so that argument doesn't count.

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 5:29 PM

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that have associated cost

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that also needs to be maintained

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so your point is?

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and modding doesn't take time, it simply fucking happens?

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:30 PM

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They wanna get payed, for doing something they wanted to do.

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 5:31 PM

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and modding tools come free

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where the fuck do you spawn from?

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:31 PM

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Who the F cares, if you have to manage your "Community" or "Server"? It was your fkn decission to run a fkn Server. It was your decission to rent a Server... i am sick of that stupid argument "Uh, the server cost money too"... fk that...

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 5:33 PM

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it's also your own decission to start modding, and also start paying subscription fees for the tools

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not one makes one do it

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:34 PM

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Yep.

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 5:34 PM

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but fuck if i ever heard a modder complain about it: but but shit costs money man!

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well, it does...so what?

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:35 PM

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I would like to have my Time, spend in A3 / Tools / Notepad++ payed out, at average payout.

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 5:35 PM

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yeah same here, but still not gonna happen

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:36 PM

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~ 5500 of 6031Hrs Playtime = Just Coding/Testing
2,142 Hrs Tools ... ... ...

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Countlesstime in Notepad ++

heavy moon Feb 3, 2017, 5:36 PM

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i lost count.

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:36 PM

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I just watch my Stats in Steam 😄

heavy moon Feb 3, 2017, 5:36 PM

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a long time ago 😄

tulip nexus Feb 3, 2017, 5:39 PM

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I don't even know how much time I have spent in tools since I close it as soon as P: gets mounted and run everything else from the .exe in the tools drive

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but it'll be waaaaaay in excess of time spent playing

amber ibex Feb 3, 2017, 5:40 PM

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@carmine folio that is literally the worst argument one ever has made in history of ArmA
Server costs beyond the "they cost money" limit are those, whoose community is large enough and already covering the whole field more then enough to put some revenue into the modders pocket too
in the end it is still him who is the reason for the servers popularity
and servers that are not popular enough do not cost billions of $$$ ... hell i think i pay more for my root then most hosts for their arma server per month

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 5:40 PM

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well for me it is 1098h ingame, and 2157h in tools...that is i actually don't play arma3 anymore anyways...

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:41 PM

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oh fuck off

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Who the F cares, if you have to manage your "Community" or "Server"? It was your fkn decission to run a fkn Server. It was your decission to rent a Server... i am sick of that stupid argument "Uh, the server cost money too"... fk that...```

amber ibex Feb 3, 2017, 5:41 PM

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HAHA XD

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 5:42 PM

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i really hope you are trolling

amber ibex Feb 3, 2017, 5:42 PM

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dem jokes are real

tulip nexus Feb 3, 2017, 5:42 PM

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What's stopping you closing the server down to go on holiday, besides risk of losing donations?

echo orchid Feb 3, 2017, 5:43 PM

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but this is besides the point: one either allows everyone to monetize content or none at all

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:43 PM

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Yep

nova drift Feb 3, 2017, 5:43 PM

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Lol go on holiday? not with what I get paid 😋

amber ibex Feb 3, 2017, 5:43 PM

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server admin & some RP role are two totally different things @carmine folio ...

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one is your task

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that is comparable to modding at least in some way

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the other thing is actual playing

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that is not in modding at all

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you do not play

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you read forum posts of angry kids who do not RTFM

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ok ... fuck off

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i am outta here

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youre trolling

heavy moon Feb 3, 2017, 5:44 PM

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I think you tagged the wrong person.

cobalt creek Feb 3, 2017, 5:44 PM

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You are still writing with him? Got him blocked for a while^^

amber ibex Feb 3, 2017, 5:45 PM

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gotta go back on ArmA-Studio (new name for my lil arma ui editor) ... need to make progress so i can use that shit for my actual job (avalondock is a bitch)

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switch over to visual studio code @carmine folio