While in google play store I mostly saw free apps (been using F-Droid Appstore since 1 year, so it could have changed)
#linux_mac_branch
covert quiver
sly rover
That's just because Android apps have had more success integrating ads than iOS apps which have gotten more direct sales. The markets are different. In either case, it is silly to suggest that the porting house which lived entirely off of OS X ports for so long, and has now invested in a Metal translation, should suddenly drop macOS support just because some Linux users in this channel want more.
scenic sleet
It's not the porting house that gets to decide, that's up to BI
covert quiver
yea its useless to say they should drop mac support in favour of linux, but the comparison of apple apps and google play store bugged me
wise canyon
I don't think that many users have F-Droid compared to Google Play
the number of available apps are not that much of a difference between the platforms, Android has slightly more
but Android has a lot more downloads than iOS
and a lot more users
going back to Linux and macOS support, it's a shame that Steam Play only supports DXVK/vkd3d on Linux and no alternative for macOS
which would cut out potential macOS gamers
so porting houses at least has that going for them, for now
short tulip
I think Valve wants to promote Linux as the better gaming OS alternative to Windows, as opposed to MacOS.
wise canyon
definitely
macOS has it's app store which is a competitor to steam
and Windows has it's Microsoft Store
Microsoft even recently announced that they will be bringing more of Game Pass to Windows as well and not just Play Anywhere games from Xbox
scenic sleet
Valve started their whole linux push as a direct result of Microsoft's attempts to create a walled garden and increase platform lock-in. In that context it hardly makes sense to invest time and effort in supporting the Mac when Apple's whole business model is about about building walls and when they had just taken a very large step away from open standards in the form of Metal. If the aim is to get away from DX, why would you embrace yet another proprietary standard?
Besides which, any PC user can install Linux, but they cannot install OSX, so rather than democratising and opening up options for Windows users, it would just be catering to a niche.
sly rover
Okay, it would also be silly for BI to drop it now after years of providing the macOS port, yet keeping Linux support, especially after paying for Metal support (unlike VP, who could use Metal in other titles, BI only benefits from that if the macOS port still exists).
scenic sleet
@sly rover My comment was more to the suggestion that Steam Play should also support OSX
it just doesn't make sense for Valve to do that given their stated aims
that said, Proton is opensource, so I'm sure someone might eventually work on it
wise canyon
Steam Play actually had MoltenVK for macOS support until about a month ago
sly rover
@scenic sleet I was replying to your "It's not the porting house that gets to decide, that's up to BI" which was probably about VP and BI, not Valve.
scenic sleet
Ah, fair enough ๐
covert quiver
Just tested out if opentrack works, and no It did not work as libevdev output
scenic sleet
@covert quiver Thanks for doing that, I've been wanting to see if I could somehow get it working, but free time has been in very short supply
I'd really love to see TrackIR (and other head tracking solutions) working with Arma 3 on linux
covert quiver
I use Delanclip, has the same 6DOF as trackir, but only costs around 40Euros (including shipping)
long sphinx
@wise canyon can you filter it by country or language?
it would be nice to exclude chinese and check the results lol
long sphinx
there's a huge amount of chinese dudes and they use windows massively
that does fuck up a bit with the numbers though
wise canyon
Yeah, Windows 7 saw a huge bump with PUBG in China
winged marlin
Is the Linux Port still on 1.82?
steep lotus
Yep
hearty turtle
I switched to Linux this year, my buddies need me, please do something Bohemia. Kill the Linux port and support punk-buster on proton if you absolutely must. The fact Arma 3 is stuck in eternal limbo is my single biggest issue on Linux right now.
night sinew
@hearty turtle Arma 3 uses BattleEye, not punk buster.
Why are you petitioning bohemia to kill the port? Is it not a good thing that they're at least trying to get native support for different os?
hearty turtle
@night sinew I hope they don't, but if they must they must, but only in exchange for official proton support, and native Linux support in Arma 4. I need to get Arma 3 working, like today. I'm just gonna lutris it right now because that's all I can do, but I hope they fix it, I kinda don't care how at this point.
night sinew
How is it "not working", was dual booting linux mint a while ago and arma booted perfectly
arma 4 is a hoax
hearty turtle
@night sinew It's working, I just need to play online with windows users.
night sinew
Then have your buddies host a server that uses the legacy branch. Easy as that.
They'll need an older version of the client as well, but it's well worth it. They can install two versions of the client. So they don't have to redownload the client everytime
scenic sleet
performance under proton isn't good ๐
short tulip
Arma 4 isn't a hoax. It's a plan and a dream. It's the game that they are going to make when the Enfusion engine is ready for prime time.
short tulip
Well then, so much for 1.84. 1.86 just came out.
heavy lion
Can*t stay in the closet forever, right?
gritty sage
On top of that, the port updates are simply quite expensive. So as our time and other resources are limited, we do need to consider the business side of things. With that in mind, we're currently not yet planning a new port update
oof.
Can't see how it's so expensive and demanding to basically run the same automated code everytime a new release is made, and then pack it into the same wrapper ๐ค
short tulip
Well, I'm sure they can do that. But there will be bugs and performance issues. So they gotta cope with that. Rinse and repeat for a few months.
gritty sage
I thought EON was just a very well made wrapper. I don't see where performance issues would come from, not like BI is changing major parts of the graphics pipeline with every update
short tulip
I think it's a very well-maintained wrapper. But it does require a lot of fixing for each patch. The problem for them is that they don't get the props for doing all of that hard work since ARMA 3 is still being listed on Steam as being Windows-only.
gritty sage
But i don't understand what fixing would be needed for each patch
short tulip
Neither do I.
gritty sage
internal logic shouldn't care about the wrapper at all. It just needs to take care of all the OS interfacing which doesn't really change
dusk ermine
well i changed my OS to linux after playing arma3 on this system, now that i love this OS i will not change back to the microsoft cancer, i think this is a goodbay to arma ๐ญ
short tulip
@dusk ermine I think that's the sort of decision that a lot of Mac/Linux users who thought of buying this game made. And it's the reason why the devs are having so much trouble justifying to continue updating it. If everyone who wanted to play this on Mac/Linux forgave the incomplete state, there would be so many people here that it would be easy to justify the port.
dusk ermine
@short tulip im not sure if i understood you right, but i bought arma3 when i was with microsoft windows, and i bought some dlc when i was on linux.
sly rover
Well that sucks
But I also got years of enjoyment out of it entirely on Linux.
Over hundreds of hours.
Blah. I hope that future things eventually get Linux support.
Or that when Arma 3 is no longer updated, they update the Linux port one last time. That would be great.
short tulip
Well, I hope that they leave experimental ports with mod support and an official launcher. And I also hope they list it as supporting Mac & Linux on the Steam store.
pallid spade
Yes, I would stayed on v1.82 with no problems if they released official launcher for Experimental Ports
short tulip
Um, I'd they also update it to match the Windows version too. It's not enough for them to leave the Experimental ports on an outdated version.
remote widget
Farewell Bohemia Interactive
short tulip
Dude. This is the attitude that's going to disincentivize them from supporting the Experimental Branch. I'm not giving up on this. I really want them to keep the versions at least somewhat up-to-date.
sly rover
Mod support isn't an easy problem.
I don't expect that is something they will just fix on a whim.
narrow fossil
I just hope enfusion will support linux, as I see why they don't plan any updates in a near future.
gritty sage
Mod support isn't an easy problem. The VP dev that's in this channel told us it's a easy thing to do, but he has to wait for the green light from BI to do it.
Extension support that is.
molten pulsar
kinda sad news ๐ฆ
but as long as they don't pull the experimental port from steam I guess we can still play as usual ๐
smoky crater
until linux users bitch and moan that they want to run it on Proton
steep lotus
Well, if performance is good enough on proton, at this point it would almost be better. We'd still have to host our own server since battle eye doesn't work but at least we'd be on par with the windows version and have access to more mods etc.
But, then we might as well install a windows version of steam through proton instead
smoky crater
it isnt better from what ive read, its worse
buts thats ok, it uses vulkan so that makes it better
scenic sleet
all reports I've seen so far describe performance as "unplayable" under Proton
and besides which, if it was playable under Proton, what motivation would BI have for supporting Linux at all?
scenic sleet
That's not what they said. They have basically said they want to support it, but it's just too expensive to release a new version several times a year.
for which I really have to blame VPs model ... would have been better if they had given it to a Linux publisher from the outset
smoky crater
@scenic sleet were we supposed to work on it for free?
we dont just stick it in a wrapper, despite what many claim
and the ported versions went through thorough QA tests, exactly the same tests that the Windows version went through
it's all of those things that take the time and money
even if the port had been "native" the same thing wouldve applied
smoky crater
you blamed "VP's model" in other words you blame that we charged a flat fee every version
BI did not want to do it by royalties
so therefore, you think we charged too much
scenic sleet
Not me, but clearly BI came to that conclusion. While I'm on your side, the model was clearly not sustainable for BI
I'm not saying VP is in the wrong, but that it proved to be the wrong solution for BI
Had the port required fewer updates it might have been sustainable, but that's BI's fault for not considering the lifecycle costs
smoky crater
BI didnt say we charged to much, they said that it was too expensive - they mean that they were not seeing enough return on their investment
scenic sleet
No-one here said you charge too much except you...
smoky crater
snort
scenic sleet
A royalty based approach would likely have worked far better for them, they would have seen an income without the associated costs. A publisher would also have actually marketed the linux client instead of keeping it quiet.
smoky crater
VP wasnt the publisher, just the subcontractor doing the port work. BI wanted to remain the publisher
and a royalty based approach wouldve likely meant that VP would've canned it sooner because we wouldnt have made back our costs
mostly because the linux community will accept no less than 120% commitment and 110% performance
scenic sleet
I'm not anti-VP which should be obvious by the shear number of times I've defended them both here and elsewhere. That said I think the outcome would have been different if they had gone the publisher route.
I know VP is not a publisher. ๐ฌ
It would have been Feral or Aspyre, though the latter seems to have left the linux port business now
smoky crater
feral seem to be the only ones making any money out of it. would love to know how
linux is just too hard to support commercially
molten pulsar
Feral mostly does ports on games that don't update that often right?
BI's update cycle is just too often I guess
fading trout
@smoky crater Becasuse users on Linux generally know what they're doing and realise that BattleEye is most often one of the biggest limiting factors. That and the fact that texture bugs happen more often which means that even though you're not hacking you might end up doing the equivelant of "wallhacking".
But most of all it's that it needs support that isn't aimed at Windows. And that's just something companies won't bother with. Not because it's not profitable or undoable, but because they simply don't want to.
short tulip
No. I think they really want to do Linux support. It's only because they can't justify it business-wise that we are in the state that we are in.
fading trout
Mind you I mean it in the sense of Bohemia Interactive. Not (individual) devs.
smoky crater
Linux is difficult to support, not just from a business point of view, but from a technical point of view. Distro fragmentation does exist. Shipping a binary app and keeping it working going forward is difficult. No you cannot "just target Ubuntu" because users of other distro's will shitcan you for it not working on their distro.
theres other technical issues that the Linux ecosystem doesnt want to hear. Problems with X11, fullscreen support is awful, no way other than hitting udev to get relative and unaccelerated mouse movements. No way to detect audio setup for things like 5.1. No proper thread priority scheduling
but you mention all of this in Linux circles, and you get attacked.
and Wayland is a joke. They stick their heads in the sand over things people want e.g. screenshots, and they spend more time fighting with a major graphics vendor than solving issues
and no, SDL does not "fix" any of this
so.. sorry guys.. we tried..
sly rover
I feel like nobody is fighting you on this here.
I think a lot of us wish it didn't come to this, but we still understand that it isn't easy.
short tulip
I can wait for things to cool down update-wise before we get a new Linux version. If it means that our port goes from 1.82 to 1.98 or something like that, so be it. This isn't forever. And they are going to consider doing another update to the experimental branch when they've done everything that they want to do. Perhaps it's worth it that the next time we get version parity, it might last for more than a month at a time.
sly rover
Well, remember that we might also never get another update, but yes, a final update at the end of their roadmap would be nice.
short tulip
I remember how Terraria got it's initial Linux release at the end of it's developmental roadmap. Ditto with Skullgirls (although that game's devs are a lot more forthcoming with Linux support for their next game, Indivisible). I'm grateful to BI and VP that we were able to have ARMA 3 before the developmental roadmap came to an end.
tame pier
FYI... All I want for Christmas is the A3 Linux port brought up to the latest patch! It would also be cool (even better) to have the 'final' version ported to the same version as windows - can we start a gofundme? lol
scenic sleet
Won't happen for Christmas, even if they started today. Maybe next year after Old Man is released
narrow fossil
Or after those third party DLCs, this might depend on how they'll be implemented though. ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
gritty sage
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/another-steam-client-beta-is-out-adds-the-ability-to-force-steam-play.13376
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/SteamClientBeta/announcements/detail/1703951108827819236
Added the ability to force-enable Steam Play in per-title properties, including for native games
Seems like you can force-enable playing the windows version on linux via proton.
sly rover
More like because lots of ports are broken or games have empty Linux depots, and they have a tool that can potentially be used to fix it.
wise canyon
nice
scenic sleet
@sly rover Then whitelist those games, but allowing overrides for all games is just a knife in the back of anyone who is porting or has paid to have their game ported IMHO
heavy lion
There are alot of ports that don't have crossplattform multiplayer or don't have version parity with windows. Those often aren't considered broken so if you want to play with your Windows friends you would have to either use windows or download Steam for Windows and use it through Wine. That new steam function is optional and makes it alot smoother for users and the porters still get paid so I don't see a downside on this
short tulip
The ability to use Proton for WIndows games that have Linux ports has been very-heavily requested, mostly justified by ARK: Survival Evolved
quasi orchid
Hey guys
I used to be a windows user
now an ubuntu user for a few months now
So I'm glad to have a free linux copy
but
Is there a linux ARMA 3 multiplayer group or list of servers?
Where we can join together or play on holidays?
Because nearly all the servers are on 1.88 and we're not.
we should create an 
Linux conglomerate or something
gritty sage
play windows version via proton rather than the linux port
deft carbon
How well does Arma 3's anti-cheat play in Proton?
With the poor quality of Arma 3 on Linux, it might even be a better idea to just officially support Proton
short tulip
That's a contradiction in terms.
deft carbon
how
short tulip
Official support is what BI and VP have been trying to deliver. Using Proton is basically acting like that doesn't matter at all.
deft carbon
VP is doing a shit job, because it's always several versions behind. What I'm suggesting is: BI should test for issues with Arma 3 in Proton and fix those
short tulip
The reason why VP's port is so far behind is that it takes them a tremendous amount of effort to put one out. And BI is putting out so many patches in this time, it would probably be wiser to not ask them to port any more until things calm down.
And sure enough, there is talk about 1.90 coming up.
If we would get a 1.88 right now, how long would it be up-to-date? Not long enough to justify all the effort.
deft carbon
The effort is constantly in vain. This development model is unsustainable.
The goal should be to make Arma 3 buildable for any platform from a unified source code
starting over the porting process with each version is super dumb
short tulip
Well, I don't think that's really possible with the Real Virtuality Engine. I certainly hope that's possible with the Enfusion Engine, which was made for the standalone DayZ and is supposed to be used for Arma 4. But I have no idea what the story is about that.
deft carbon
And they can add features to said engines. Engines are not constant pieces of code.
Features like Linux deployment
short tulip
If the solution were as simple as that, I'm pretty sure they would've gone with that. This isn't something that can be tacked on to the engine. It's a systemic change that probably requires going deep into the engine and changing everything above whatever else is changed.
deft carbon
I never said it was easy, but it is a simple concept.
One good first step would be to add Vulkan support
short tulip
I think I can agree that Vulkan support on the Windows version would help with a lot of the latent performance issues that A3 is infamous for. And it would probably trickle down to the Linux version. But judging by how much time it took to implement Metal for the Mac port, it's a long and complicated process as well. It's very much worth it, but it's a gruelling undertaking. It would probably take so much time, that they might as well have VP port the last pre-Vulkan version.
deft carbon
Why did they bother with Metal when you can use Vulkan and MoltenVK?
short tulip
For one thing, MoltenVK didn't exist when they did it. Secondly, Apple likes to keep tight control over their platform and we don't know when Apple is going to try to actively fight against MoltenVK through obfuscating updates or legal action.
deft carbon
Makes sense, but Vulkan still makes more sense
still trench
@quasi orchid http://armaonunix.gitlab.io/
quasi orchid
Thank you @still trench 
Btw
Unix is v1.7 and the 
version is 1.88
Correct?
So we're alot behind the windows players
However how come we have access to the new DLCs? Like the tanks DLC
still trench
Linux port is on v1.82 and current windows v is 1.88
quasi orchid
Will it ever be the same?
still trench
We are missing Encore and Warlords
still trench
And some damn bug fixes ๐
quasi orchid
Will we ever be on the same version as Windows?
I thought the Linux porting had now been abandoned? That was the last I heard on the matter as they were just a release behind and then it stopped coming out
still trench
They have suspended Linux port for undwdined time, as i understood
linux is boolied
(Unix players)
still trench
Yeah, MP works as intended, tho we have samo random disconect that can happen omlnce every 5 mins or never at all, joysticks amd gamepads crash the game and lack of some mod support like ace or something released for newer version of the game
Still playable, we have a lot of fun
Oh and ye ah, we have sort of rare problem of frame drop when it goes to even 3 fps for 10 mins or full game restart
short tulip
That day will come again.
quasi orchid
Hey any plans to allow use via proton? I cannot play native due to old version and battleye wonโt start on proton ๐ฎ
Love arma ... hate windows
pallid spade
I don't think it's possible to get battleye working on proton
covert quiver
many people already contact battleye about allowing wine but they didnt get a reply
uneven pasture
There is someone actively trying to get battleye to function in wine
https://www.reddit.com/r/wine_gaming/comments/9gdudb/hello_again_ive_cleaned_up_my_battleye_work_and/
gritty sage
I guess not all battleye games use the kernel driver
covert quiver
since the linux got got discontinued (at least for now) BI should at least make sure that BattlEye is allowed on SteamPlay. Maybe we should start a petition to BI and BE
gritty sage
You can play every game via the steam thing
Even if there is already a port, you can tell steam to run the emulated windows version instead
short tulip
It doesn't work well for every game. But at least Proton will try.
covert quiver
by BE i mean battleye, sorry
gritty sage
Ohhhh... Completely overread that
we already talked about why that won't and shouldn't happen, maybe in #arma_battleye
If every hacker can just switch to Linux to essentially be free of battleye and hack all they want... It's gonna destroy public servers even more
steep lotus
I don't think anyone is saying that linux players should be allowed to not use BE, but it would be nice if BE worked in the proton version
uneven pasture
EAC has a wine supported build that some games fetch when using EAC, believe paladins is an example of one that does that, but for battleye it'd have to be a specific version that isnt kernel. Atleast from my understanding
covert quiver
Maybe battleye could provide patches for wine/proton to let it pass-through to the linux native be version
maybe BI could do that too (or at least lobby that idea a bit)
molten pulsar
[8:53 AM] Elegant Beef: EAC has a wine supported build that some games fetch when using EAC, believe paladins is an example of one that does that, but for battleye it'd have to be a specific version that isnt kernel. Atleast from my understanding
I think there was a post on gamingonlinux.com that Paladins no longer worked the other day
gritty sage
If you want to protect from hackers.. Then emulation on Linux just simply can't be allowed
Maybe they missed that their anticheat worked in wine. And when they noticed that they left the barndoor open for hackers they... closed it. That's what I would do too.
steep lotus
Without knowing much about how anticheat works, I don't think that is true. There are plenty of games with anticheat that do run in wine (battlefield, which uses punkbustr, overwatc etc.)
This thread has some interesting discussions about it https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/9azysc/thoughts_on_anticheat_systems/
gritty sage
There are different kinds of anticheat
there are the ones that prevent you from cheating which is what battleye does.
And there are the ones that let you cheat, but detect that you are doing it and then ban you, which is what VAC does
And preventing you from cheating simply is not possible if the anticheat is running in a emulator
steep lotus
If nothing else, BE does work in arma right now and as far as I know, the port is also emulated, or at least not running completely natively
gritty sage
true. But afaik the official port also didn't have battleye? Did it?
steep lotus
It didn't at first but got it somewhere along the way
gritty sage
Well they control the emulator. They know what can and cannot happen
steep lotus
We were able to play on BE servers for a few weeks the few times where the port was on par with linux
gritty sage
with wine they don't really
heavy lion
Well, wine isn't an emulator though. It's translating windows calls to unix ones. Normal anticheat that checks if someone tempered with the files or the memory should theoretically work, the ones that need kernel access cause problems (also I think one of the wine devs once mentioned that it's hard to implement that while still being inline with e.g. Linux's idea about privacy and user controll)
(it does a bit more than just translating calls I should mention. however it's different from e.g. console emulators that emulate the whole system and sometimes the hardware too)
steep lotus
What's preventing someone from forking wine, and incorrectly translating syscalls in order to give themselves wall hacks or something like that?
molten pulsar
couldn't wine in theory do some signature based thing for anticheat software?
like the anticheats would check those signatures or whatever
steep lotus
That does seem like it would be a possibilty
molten pulsar
except for the fact that most distros build the package themselves
gritty sage
Also on linux there is the additional problem of making sure that the kernel hasn't been tampered with
not a problem on windows.. I mean who compiles their own windows kernel or makes their own windows patches? Also windows verifies the kernel integrity by itself already.
A signature based approach would mean you need signatures for every build of the software on every distribution in existance...
molten pulsar
^^
gritty sage
Not a problem on windows.. There aren't that many different windows versions to worry about...
steep lotus
Modifying the kernel seems like it isn't considered a problem since BE has a linux version for some games
Though what you're saying is true
smoky crater
the Linux/Mac port of Arma 3 integrated the Linux/Mac versions of BattlEye. Thats how we made it work. It is EXTREMELY unlikely that BattlEye is ever going to be allowed to work on Wine, because yes Wine is an emulator, and it would allow analysis of how BattlEye works to defeat it
The developers of BattlEye checked with us to make sure eON could not be used that way
So unless the developers of BattlEye ever agree to allow Proton to support it, it wont work. And theyre not likely to agree to it.
and no, Wine couldnt do a signature check - because it's open source, there is nothing to stop a would be cheater or cheat author from simply defeating the signature check in their own build
covert quiver
1.) Wine is not an emulator, its literally in the name. 2.) EAC seems to make efforts to make of possible for easyanticheat, so why wouldn't that with BE work
They maybe could just translate the windows be client into Linux be client calls over wine, or why wouldn't that be possible
smoky crater
you can argue the wine not emulator until the cows come home, but in some sense it is.
also EAC really ? funny how most of the games using it just stopped working
as for battleye, yes, technically that is possible - its what we did with eON. However BE are not going to agree to intergate it into an open source solution when it means having to divulge mechanisms about how the anti cheat works
nor into a system which will allow it to be analysed
in short they are not going to risk anything that allows their anticheat to be compromised just to allow a less than 1% market access to a game
still trench
God damn cheaters ruins everything even when they are not cheating ๐
Thats how must arabs feel when they have to put up with airport security for a crazy Abdul from another village
scenic sleet
Wine is an emulator. Just because it says it isn't, does not make that true. Games running under wine believe they are running on Windows - which is the definition of an emulator.
heavy lion
An emulator is "a mixture of two or more liquids that are normally immiscible (unmixable or unblendable)". Therefore WINE is not an emulator.
Wait, I think I got something mixed up :D \s
gritty sage
Well water and grapes don't mix that well do they?
molten pulsar
isn't an "emulator" all about running software written for other hardware on your hardware? ๐ค
WINE doesn't "emulate" any hardware as far as I know
WINE is essentially just a translation layer between Windows and Linux
I wouldn't call that an "emulator"
especially in the traditional sense of the word
"compatibility layer" even
light quiver
Doesn't work on my mac?!
uneven pasture
Most emulators copy the cpu and other hardware of the system in question, since windows is just an OS and there is no functional difference between a linux pc it's just translation from windows libraries to linux, so by definition of an emulator emulating hardware to make software function it isnt
covert quiver
Also after GBees definition, eOn is also an emulator
smoky crater
arguing the semantics is just petty tbh
the crux of the matter is this - wine pretends to be windows, and because it is open source and generic, it lends itself to being used to analyse the functionality of BattlEye. The authors of BattlEye do not want that.
They questioned us just the same about eON and because that is both closed source and specifically built for the game in question, it doesnt count
anticheat is big business on mainstream gaming platforms, so understandably they dont wish to have their solution compromised
uneven pasture
I mean alternatively could make a very strict server side game
And take reactive measures
steep lotus
That wouldn't stop things like wall hacks
Unless it's very strict, but that would require some pretty advanced networking
uneven pasture
Reactive measures cover that
An anticheat arms race is just annoying for both parties
And i assume most anticheat bypasses that are detected are the published ones, so i atleast assume some people keep them to themselves
I mostly play arma as a coop game so i laugh at the mere mention of anticheat, mostly just annoyed that anticheat is pretty much the number one reason most games wont work on proton
short tulip
I know of one entirely cooperative game that was negatively affected by cheating: Phantasy Star Online Ep. I & II for Gamecube. There was an item duping bug that allowed any weapon to be duplicated and lots of people were using it to just get their hands on the hardest-to-obtain launchers with no effort. And this was in a game where much of the challenge was grinding for gear and making due with lesser gear. I was also driven off of Maple Story by all of the rampant cheating even though Maple Story also had no competitive aspects.
uneven pasture
But if im playing a coop game and someone's cheating and i dont like it, i tell them to stop since im playing coop games with my friends
short tulip
Well, I hope it works out better for you than it did for me in Maple Story.
uneven pasture
Well maple story has botting which isnt exactly cheating
And that also has interactions between users in a large scale
So not really coop
I do understand the need for BE in arma for the pvp modes, just i dont frequent those modes so i dont associate arma as a game needing anti cheat
short tulip
When I played it, people were using hacks to instantly kill every single monster in the room with one melee attack and then gather all of the loot. This made it impossible to grind in that room, and I had trouble finding places to grind when that happened. When the offender was even clickable in the map, I was also unable to report them for cheating because I had a hard limit of how many players I can report. I guess they didn't want the report to be misused frivolously. But what really ruined things for me was the Party Quest that had 6 players in a party doing tasks. Nearly every group that I was in insisted on smuggling a quest item that's supposed to be consumed so that they can use it again quickly. I really wanted to rely exclusively on that PQ to level me through the range that I was eligible for. But the cheaters brought my progress to a screeching halt because I refused to benefit from it.
uneven pasture
So a badily designed game from the sounds of it
Clients shouldnt be able to change their damage output in an mmo
short tulip
I think it's a game that relied on anti-cheating laws (which would land people in IRL prison for 10 years as a consequence of cheating in online games) exported to international markets where such laws don't exist.
uneven pasture
But from your two examples one was a bug, and the other was cheating, that a more backend reliant game would've countered, so not exactly a prime case of demonstrating the need for preventitive anticheating
short tulip
No. They were both cheating. I think the people who were one-shotting all the monsters were just really over-leveled from doing it. Some of them were just hitting the monsters for relatively normal damage. It's the range for melee attacking and loot pickups and also the ability to hide in places where I couldn't even right-click on them to report them that bugged me.
uneven pasture
Exploiting a broken game isnt cheating
It's bug abuse
A more robust system that showed previously seen players giving a way to report them with a timestamp of last seen and where exactly would have saved maple story for you
short tulip
Bug abuse is still cheating, especially when you can't do it without a special program or plugin.
uneven pasture
Bug abuse is a different category than cheating
But still negative to games
My point is simply anticheat is redundant when you have a good report and replay system(that is very accurate)
The latter is alot harder to perfect in a non deterministic setting
Aslong as you can replay events sent to the server in an accurate fashion you can be fairly certain someone is cheating
short tulip
Yeah. Maple Story's woes came from a disparity of law, culture and language. Nexon, as far as I know, always had a problem with customer service. That's definitely not the case with BI.
uneven pasture
And for any game that is worried about cheating the report and replay system should already be in place
But im just biased linux user that'd like to play huntshowdown on linux ๐
molten pulsar
hmm did proton 3.16-7 break audio?
weird.. 64bit doesn't have audio, 32bit does ๐
arctic oyster
I can't start my game he always crash : `../common/pipes.cpp (770) : Assertion Failed: fatal stalled cross-thread pipe
../common/pipes.cpp (770) : Assertion Failed: fatal stalled cross-thread pipe
../common/pipes.cpp (770) : Fatal assert failed: ../common/pipes.cpp, line 770. Application exiting.
../common/pipes.cpp (770) : Fatal assert failed: ../common/pipes.cpp, line 770. Application exiting.
ERROR: waitpid() on child forked process failed when uploading minidump: 10
ERROR: Could not run steamerrorreporter binary. Uploading minidump in-process
Uploading dump (in-process) [proxy '']
/tmp/dumps/crash_20190217184935_2.dmp
crash_20190217184935_2.dmp[15724]: Uploading dump (out-of-process)
/tmp/dumps/crash_20190217184935_2.dmp
success = yes
response: Discarded=1
_ExitOnFatalAssert
[stidofficial@localhost Arma 3]$ crash_20190217184935_2.dmp[15724]: Finished uploading minidump (out-of-process): success = yes
crash_20190217184935_2.dmp[15724]: response: Discarded=1
crash_20190217184935_2.dmp[15724]: file ''/tmp/dumps/crash_20190217184935_2.dmp'', upload yes: ''Discarded=1''`
No update, no os change but he work yesteday
molten pulsar
have you tried turning it off and on again? ๐
uneven pasture
The otherday i installed obs with VAAPI support and my dota stopped working, reinstalling it fixed the problem
So maybe reinstall
Yes i removed all packages but obs when dota 2 vulkan wouldnt start
arctic oyster
I have apply a kernel + nvidia update and it's work
spark citrus
Hello. I have a new server with linuxgsm, you know a web panel or launcher to use this server more easy?
covert quiver
Wrong channel, #server_linux is for server @spark citrus
flint raven
Need help with Arma and Proton: I run Arma x64 with impressive performance, but with a geambreaking issue. The Game Sound has an extreme dalay of approx 2 seconds. Anyone got an idea to fix it? Running 32bit is not an Option
molten pulsar
the 64 bit version wouldn't play any sound at all for me ๐ฆ
covert quiver
I don't have any issues with the sound, but I have a huge input lag
I didn't even install anything in protontricks for it to work
Maybe this stuff depends on your distro
proven bloom
Hey, I was also struggling toake the sound work, some people in YouTube told me to use fmod and update sdl2, but I did something different
What I did was to add xaudio2_6 (native; built in) and xaudio2_7 (native;built-in)
You have to this with wine configuration and go to libraries
uneven pasture
Anyone have arma workshop mods working with proton?
uneven pasture
Well I will put this here, works with steam workshop mods atm, dont know if i'll ever modify it enough to run with non workshop mods
https://github.com/beef331/arma3-proton-launcher
steep lotus
We have some people trying to figure out arma in proton here https://discord.gg/p28Ra36
As well as lots of people playing the port
uneven pasture
So i did get ACE to work with proton, need to get imagehlp.dll and force proton to use it
uneven pasture
molten pulsar
@flint raven tried the x64 version and most sounds seemed alright, just the radio sounds that were delayed for me
flint raven
i already got an fix for most proton sound issues players encountered. U need to install xact via winetricks or protontricks.
uneven pasture
The above xaudio fixed my audio issues
molten pulsar
ah I'll try that ๐
gritty sage
TFAR in proton is apparently a thing https://github.com/michail-nikolaev/task-force-arma-3-radio/issues/1030#issuecomment-472868951
wise canyon
cool stuff!
uneven pasture
secretly pretends he helped in getting TFAR to work in proton ๐
gritty sage
Just don't know if that's TFAR 0.9 or 1.0. They use different systems to interconnect and I don't know if both work
covert quiver
a bridge to native ts would be cool, but i guess we need to live with this solution
gritty sage
I don't know if shared memory can be shared between the wine emulation and native linux. I'm assuming it can't.
wise canyon
file sockets? ๐
gritty sage
If someone can tell me tha...... no.
that shared memory can work between wine emulated and native linux. Then I'll set up a dev env and implement it. With my usual ETA's though.
wise canyon
maybe even network sockets so TS can run on separate (virtual) machine? ๐ฎ
here's a recent discussion regarding wine and shared memory, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32330293/how-to-share-memory-between-linux-program-and-windows-program-running-through-wi
not sure if relevant but, https://github.com/LeonB/wineshm-go
gritty sage
network.. U cray cray? ๐
This implies that Wine may be considered a separate, API-facaded, "independent" operating system on top
That is also what I was thinking
TFAR is modular enough to implement UDP messaging. But I don't really wanna do that ๐
wise canyon
it would be a nice partner for the new steam streaming ๐
although I guess you could just run steam on your gaming desktop as well ๐คท
trail dragon
just finished writing a script to enable all my workshop mods for the proton version.
uneven pasture
@trail dragon why?
https://github.com/beef331/arma3-proton-launcher IT EXISTS! ๐
trail dragon
@uneven pasture Cause I wanted to, and this one just manages command line options for me, no launcher needed. Means I can still launch it straight from steam.
uneven pasture
But GUIs ๐
trail dragon
anyone know where the logfiles live when playing through proton?
molten pulsar
@trail dragon ~/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/compatdata/107410/pfx/drive_c/users/steamuser/Local Settings/Application Data/Arma 3/
trail dragon
thanks.
covert quiver
One of our community members created a wiki on how to play arma over proton, available here: https://old.reddit.com/r/armaonunix/wiki/index
gritty sage
@left fog can you pin that please ^
That's very useful
left fog
covert quiver
Btw i tested ACRE and TFAR in proton today and neither of them worked correctly, did anyone of you have success with it?
ACRE seemed to connect to Teamspeak, but It did lag horrible (like every FPS per 10 seconds and Talking did not work) and TFAR didnt seem to interface with Teamspeak at all
to be exact, I got this error in ACRE: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/550316731617247240/560395665562402836/20190327103120_1.jpg?width=1184&height=666
gritty sage
I heard TFAR was working
But you needed to add extra dll's to wine/proton so that the extension can load
Tried TFAR 1.0 or 0.9?
The acre error box is because it does some very special parsing on the terrain files inside the pbo's, I can see that failing in an emulator
@quasi mauve
Pipe error and lag dunno.
covert quiver
yea imagehlp
i added that
but tfar didnt work nevertheless
i tried the beta release of tfar
gritty sage
I hoped 1.0 was more likely to work ^^
If i'm going to fix any problems, it's gonna be 1.0
covert quiver
as I said, acre did interface with their addons
but tfar did not seem to interface at all
gritty sage
TFAR 1.0 uses shared memory. wheras 0.9 and acre use named pipes
gritty sage
Arma will print error to RPT if TFAR can't load extension.
Did it say anything ingame on bottom right?
covert quiver
something like could not connect to pipe.
need to make a screenshot, im currently afk
gritty sage
pipe was not 1.0 then
I think 1.0 error messages are more helpful than the named pipe ones
quasi mauve
@covert quiver could you create an issue on GitHub about it? with all the relevant information of your setup so we can work on compatibility with that?
yes we do terrain parsing through an extension, but I don't see why we couldn't support that, probably just some path issues or permissions
covert quiver
sure
quasi mauve
Thanks, this is something I am personally interested in, running Linux as main OS and VFIO, would love to get it working properly through Proton!
covert quiver
Great to hear, I was not very enthusiastic about proton first, but after the new version it works quite well. Performance seems to be even better than the native port one.
fierce fable
@covert quiver For TFAR to work, you need to run TeamSpeak from the same prefix from which you run Arma 3.
Here is a demonstration of Arma 3 on proton with mods, Iron Front,ACE3,TFAR .
quasi mauve
ACE3 extensions work correctly?
fierce fable
@quasi mauve Yes
quasi mauve
Very nice :)
covert quiver
@fierce fable i did that of course
fierce fable
@covert quiver Through the proton launched TeamSpeak?
gritty sage
Your acre screenshot showed pipe errors though. I assume that also caused the lag.
Something is cutting out the connection
ACRE can handle constant loosing of connection apparently, whereas tfar apparently doesn't
No idea what's causing that though
fierce fable
@covert quiver Strange, I have TFAR works is famously.
covert quiver
teamspeak 32 bit?
also I tried TFAR 1.0.312
btw how can you get your proton version?
if you don't start it over steam directly
fierce fable
My example of starting the game Arma 3
env cd ~; cd games; cd arma3; cd SteamLibrary; cd steamapps; cd common; cd "Arma 3"; WINEESYNC=1 WINEPREFIX="/home/cybernetik/games/arma3/SteamLibrary/steamapps/compatdata/107410/pfx" "/home/cybernetik/other/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/Proton 4.2/dist/bin/wine" arma3_x64
My example of starting the TeamSpeak env cd ~; cd games; cd arma3; cd ts32; DXVK_LOG_LEVEL=none DXVK_STATE_CACHE=0 WINEESYNC=1 WINEPREFIX="/home/cybernetik/games/arma3/SteamLibrary/steamapps/compatdata/107410/pfx" "/home/cybernetik/other/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/Proton 4.2/dist/bin/wine" ts3client_win32.exe
covert quiver
just tried using Proton4.2, but there is no dist in my proton 4.2 directory
yea i did the same, except with proton 3.16, teamspeak 64 bit and a newer TFAR version
fierce fable
I think you need to restart Steam
TeamSpeak x64 stops working after a few minutes
Audio input and output works only through DirectSound.
covert quiver
teamspeak-x64 seems to work fine for me
i used it for like 2 hours to communicate with a friend
already tried restarting
oh
i had to start over steamplay first
fierce fable
I also had this problem, I do not remember how to fix it
covert quiver
just tested the legacy TFAR (0.9.12) and it seems to work
fierce fable
Very nice ๐
terse kraken
For the linux -> Proton guide, when am I able to rename the two files? After installation, or?
molten pulsar
yes, without installing you wouldn't have the files ^^
terse kraken
Yea that was a dumb q
Regardless
I followed all the instructions now
And the transparent loading screen before the launcher starts. Finishes.... then disappears. The process still running, but no launcher and no game
left fog
so, question, anyone using dxvk , is there problem with Anti-Aliasing vs AMD GPUs in Arma 3?
molten pulsar
define problem
AA + ATOC is (or was) weird, like all the stuff ATOC adds is white-ish
AA by itself seemed to introduce stutter and annoying input lag
and the FPS hit is fairly big even at 2x FSAA iirc
but that might be because my GPU is slightly underpowered for 1440p with AA
beyond that, it's running quite nicely ๐
fierce fable
@left fog The problem is only in AMDVLK drivers, in the RADV driver this problem is fixed
nova eagle
So i can just play with Linux interface Arma3. I my self have a Linux as server, but never tried to play with that interface.
gritty sage
yes
steep lotus
There is also an official port that is a few versions out of date and put on hiatus by BI
hidden grail
The port runs out of box, but has a few limitations (e.g. its version 1.82, does not support advanced flight model). Proton version does not run OOTB, you need to rename arma3_x64.exe to arma3launcher.exe (as the launcher does not work under Proton). Also the sound not always works ootb.
uneven pasture
There are guides written on ProtonDB
Also this one written by me
https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/222265-arma-3-with-modsdll-working-in-proton/
trail dragon
Anyone gotten teamspeak working under proton (for TFAR)? I try and it always instantly crashes with a bunch of hexidecimal error codes.
covert quiver
works without problems for me
Out of ACRE, the new tfar and the legacy tfar only the legacy tfar works for me though
Someone apparently did get acre working
fierce fable
mortal steeple
I want to assume still no BattleEye work arounds?
gritty sage
correct
covert quiver
probably wont work until battleye helps valve integrate it into proton
im sure it will happen at some time, but the question is how long it will take
maybe BE will rethink their position after EAC works
molten pulsar
Yeah EAC has been working fine in Rising Storm 2: Vietnam and Squad ๐
covert quiver
does it already?
i thought they are in the process of fixing that, not that it is working already
molten pulsar
well it's been a little while since I've played Squad (feb 22) but RS2:Vietnam I've been playing a lot lately
haven't been kicked once so far
gritty sage
Question then is if it stops the cheaters
molten pulsar
I believe EAC has proton/wine specific builds
so I figure they investigated it and deemed it good enough?
not entirely sure about the specific builds but they did enable something for it to accept proton/wine
steep lotus
I think protondb suggests that squad also works with EAC as of a month or 2
uneven pasture
Think EAC might be in process of making a non opt in version of their wine anticheat, that makes it still secure but so devs dont have to opt in
Cause either EAC doesnt consistantly work, or some games do support wine ๐
covert quiver
Is there any reason why the Official Launcher is not open-source? We would love to try to get it running on Linux
molten pulsar
well the launcher uses WPF so getting it to work is pointless
besides perhaps the workshop bits and all
gritty sage
I guess same reason as why all other Arma tools are not open source.
Also they use steam SDK in there, not sure if they can just make it public? And also battleye interaction and serverlist and such. Maybe there are licenses they need to follow
gritty sage
It shows you BE logs
wise canyon
Steam SDK is public, yes
but like marceldev89 said, it won't be possible to use natively on linux unless microsoft changes their minds and allows WPF to be ported to linux
strange mango
so is there a reason BI not able to make their A3 launcher public, or they just dont want to?
wise canyon
Proton 4.2-3 shipped with mono support a week ago, https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/releases/tag/proton-4.2-3b
but no WPF or WinForms, https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/2364, https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/18#issuecomment-484887026
covert quiver
Btw guys, everything (besides BE & launcher) works now for multiple people when playing over Proton.
Even mods which require dlls can be used without any modifications
FLIR works fine too
Tested on a completely new install under proton4.2-3
uneven pasture
@covert quiver hell ya all my time wasted! ๐
I spend like 30 minutes to an hour getting it to work, so my joke is terribly over exagerated
tidal raft
Hey guys
I've seen the recent update claiming that linux has finally been merged with the 1.92 branch, is this true?
I see more linux servers but still cant join windows servers.
covert quiver
@tidal raft nope, the port got discontinued
best bet is to get it working over Proton/SteamPlay
but BE isnt working there until BE fixes that
which will take at least a year I think
tidal raft
how did they manage to merge it and discontinue it in such a shrot time?
This was only a few days ago @covert quiver
short tulip
Development of the port was paused, not discontinued. They're releasing so many patches so quickly that it doesn't make sense to have VP single out one and make a port that will be outdated by the time it's ready to come out.
covert quiver
they also said that it needs to be "re-evaluated"
so probably discontinued
but even when they maybe continue it, it wont be this year
im sure about that
short tulip
Once they have a period of time between major updates, we'll probably get an update to the port.
covert quiver
im not too optimistic about this, but you can hope
after all they arent doing any engine updates anymore
and something that doesnt change the engine wont break a port
BI has not many devs working on A3 currently AFAIK and they wont roll any engine updates out
@tidal raft what do you mean by "merge"? can you give us any source
strange mango
covert quiver
this is unnecessary now. it works with the default proton4.2-3 without tweaks.
gritty sage
Why spend time now restarting the VP project, if people can already run it with proton and it costs BI nothing
steep lotus
BE compatibility still doesn't work in proton
tidal raft
@covert quiver nevermind I'm using proton, downloading another 20Gbs to use it
covert quiver
yea at least BI should try to get BattlEye to make it work with proton
at least just for arma 3
steep lotus
Yea, that would be great
uneven pasture
tidal raft
Proton 4 isn't working with me
neither is 3.16
bohemia y u do dis?
The linux version was fine
but then I got "greedy" for the windows version and attempted to fullfil this oh soo guilty GREED using proton
gritty sage
๐ค
steep lotus
๐ค indeed
covert quiver
please dont use this guy as "example of the linux community"
uneven pasture
@covert quiver what are you talking about all linux users are neckbeard incels that are also white supremists ๐
I dont know what he said so can only joke
molten pulsar
wrote a little script a while ago that monitors the RPT and opens the new one when you restart arma
perhaps someone will find it useful
requires inotifywait
it basically starts a background script monitoring the RPT folder, starts less +F <the_rpt_file> and when a new file appears it kills the old less and starts a new one
fiery pilot
Guy itโs not an advertising but if you boring about mac and linux try Shadow or Geforce now you can run every version of Arma 3 or other games with any computer of phone need good connexion just ๐
Thinks about it ๐ค
short tulip
If you're talking about streaming it from a remote server, no thanks.
fiery pilot
You donโt need wine or boit camp or somethings else ๐
Did you try it
Itโs your opinion I respect that
wise canyon
doesn't work with ACRE or TFAR ๐คท
but I've used my own remote gaming setups for some TvT events such as Rolling Thunder while I've been away from my desktop, worked just fine
uneven pasture
Also your "you dont need wine" comment is laughable considering arma3 works OOTB with steam proton with just 1 file rename
And if you use arma3-unix-launcher you dont need to rename any file
covert quiver
I don't like the current trend to switch everything to a subscription based model. I hope that stops soon.
Besides, it looks really good for proton and arma currently
Battleye support coming soon too
scenic sleet
umm, are we now pretending that Proton ISN'T just a rebranded Wine?
covert quiver
Idk how BE will implement it and if it will work on wine as well
uneven pasture
Who's pretending it's not
If you arent playing with mods you dont even need to touch a wine prefix directly
covert quiver
i mean it did work on proton4.2-3 for me without any tweaks to the wineprefix
but on 4.2-4 it stopped working
idk why
scenic sleet
Not needing to do any config or see wine doesn't mean it isn't wine...
molten pulsar
I may be missing something but I don't see anyone saying that proton isn't wine? ๐ค
scenic sleet
That seemed to be what Elegant Beef was saying. Maybe I just misunderstood?
" Also your "you dont need wine" comment is laughable considering arma3 works OOTB with steam proton "
covert quiver
the point is, we all dont know if battleye will only work in proton, or if it will get patched in wine as well
scenic sleet
Very likely it will be Proton only and a closed source component of Proton as BE are not going to want to make it trivial to defeat, otherwise what would be the point of it in the first place.
That's assuming they even manage to get it working well enough. Just because Valve are working with BE, doesn't mean that collaboration will succeed. Like with most things in linux gaming, best to set expectations low and hope for a pleasant surprise (probably followed much latter by crushing disappointment, like BI putting the Linux port on hold)
uneven pasture
@scenic sleet the point is that wine makes it sound like it adds work when it really isnt, atleast in my interpretation which is all i was saying
Im not denying it uses wine but it's hardly a point when it runs well enough and requires no to little work like a windows version
covert quiver
i dont think they can add closed-source bits into proton
scenic sleet
not the bits of proton that are open source, but open source cheat protection or drm just isn't possible
well, actually, not impossible but easier to circumvent if you're determined enough
covert quiver
i think it would be possible using a bridge to the native battleye
im no dev, but that sounds possible
scenic sleet
that would only cover the emulated stuff, it wouldn't prevent people messing with the drivers or kernel to cheat. For that you need a part of BE that runs natively on linux which can provide those protections
covert quiver
yea i mean that it connects to the native battleye client
scenic sleet
ah, got you
covert quiver
so this way it would work as the normal linux battleye
scenic sleet
Yes, that could work if both the native client and whatever is running under the emulated Win environment are signed and use either signed messages or an encrypted protocol
So I've given in and rather than waiting patiently to see if we'll get an update to the native version, I've decided to try the proton version. Which version of proton is currently working? 4.2-4 doesn't
covert quiver
why not?
works for me
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
๐
have you renamed the binary to the launcher binary?
because the launcher wont work
hot oxide
I was able to start the game w/ that version, haven't tried playing yet :]
covert quiver
as its using WPF which wine doesnt support
scenic sleet
@covert quiver Here I thought it "just worked" ๐
covert quiver
besides the launcher, but we havent that one on linux either
and battleye
and mods with dll have worked on the last proton build but not in the newest, at least for me (but there are workarounds)
hot oxide
https://old.reddit.com/r/armaonunix/wiki/index this guide (also from @covert quiver ) helped me with getting it running, you might want to check it out @scenic sleet
covert quiver
actually @white sonnet did it ๐
but many workarounds are not needed anymore
actually most of them arent needed anymore
hot oxide
you should update it *nudge nudge*
covert quiver
the problem is, we dont know what proton did
because for example that dll support worked in proton4.2-3 but not in proton4.2-4 (at least for me)
scenic sleet
ok, creating a symbolic link from the launcher to the game binary got me to the startup splash screen where it then crashed
Win32 error Cannot create MT object
covert quiver
hmm thats weird, are you sure it started the binary? i just renamed the arma3launcher to arma3launcher.exe.old and renamed the arma3_x64.exe to arma3launcher.exe
scenic sleet
This is giving me bad flashbacks to my last days on Windows, 15 years ago
covert quiver
are you sure you used the arma3_x64.exe?
scenic sleet
yes
covert quiver
and you have a graphic card & drivers that supports vulkan, right?
covert quiver
can you start the game over the console and upload the log somewhere online?
"WINEPREFIX=/PATH/TO/SteamLibrary/steamapps/compatdata/107410/pfx /PATH/TO/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/Proton\ 4.2/dist/bin/wine /PATH/TO/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/Arma\ 3/arma3launcher.exe"
like that
actually "Wine32 Error: Cannot create MT object." sounds awful like you are trying to launch the 32 bit arma binary in a 64 bit environment
are you certain that you used the arma3_x64.exe?
scenic sleet
absolutely positive
scenic sleet
I tried that too, it didn't change anything
I'll get the logs for you shortly, I'm supposed to be in a meeting right now
covert quiver
lol no problem, have to go as well
hidden grail
I had this same problem too
then my pc broke, I got a new one and it works there ๐
so my advice is ... you need a new pc
hot oxide
^ this is never wrong advice.
tidal raft
ey cuh
waddup cuh
cuh listen, I got huge problem here cuh, I been tryna hookup Arma3 with Proton 4.2
it doesnt even launch cuh
and for some reason game launchers (like on other games not just arma) dont pop up to show me DLC/Mod selection
I can only launch vanilla games
Ubuntu 19.04 cuh
cuh, this OS trash!
(Unless it gets fixed)
anybody here that can help?
heavy lion
The Linux port has no launcher. You can use a community made one though. As for Proton, have you tried renaming arma3_x64.exe to arma3launcher.exe ?
tidal raft
yes I know that
I switched from the linux port to the proton 4.2 branch
meaning I should be able to play with windows players
but the damn thing doesnt even launch
damn it cuh
heavy lion
Playing it using Proton doesn't support BattleEye, so you would only be able to join severs that aren't using BattleEye. That /may/ change in the future.
tidal raft
Oh wait just remembered
an error message appears
it happens with DayZ (also proton)
heavy lion
What does the error message say?
tidal raft
1 sec
it takes a while for it to appear actually
since steam is so damn slow at lauching stuff
launching*
for me
this is taking too long
But I remember the error had something to do with a prompt
white sonnet
Has anyone ever tried running the latest version of A3 under mac through plain wine? (it seems like there is a version of wine for mac that has vulkan support)
scenic sleet
So I still haven't figured out why Proton doesn't work for me. For those who previously did the setup using Winetricks and other workarounds, have you tried the latest Proton with a clean install?
@covert quiver That command line you gave gives a bunch of missing shared objects warnings, I assume because some environmental variable is missing which sets the path to the steam runtime?
001f:err:ntoskrnl:ZwLoadDriver failed to create driver L"\\Registry\\Machine\\System\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\WineBus": c0000142
0012:err:service:process_send_command service protocol error - failed to write pipe!
000d:fixme:service:scmdatabase_autostart_services Auto-start service L"WineBus" failed to start: 1114
0022:err:module:load_builtin_dll failed to load .so lib for builtin L"XAPOFX1_5.dll": libFAudio.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
0022:err:module:import_dll Loading library XAPOFX1_5.dll (which is needed by L"Z:\\mnt\\games\\steamapps\\common\\Arma 3\\arma3launcher.exe") failed (error c000007a).
0022:err:module:load_builtin_dll failed to load .so lib for builtin L"X3DAudio1_7.dll": libFAudio.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
0022:err:module:import_dll Loading library X3DAudio1_7.dll (which is needed by L"Z:\\mnt\\games\\steamapps\\common\\Arma 3\\arma3launcher.exe") failed (error c000007a).
0022:err:module:LdrInitializeThunk Importing dlls for L"Z:\\mnt\\games\\steamapps\\common\\Arma 3\\arma3launcher.exe" failed, status c0000135
If I specify those paths so that the linker can find them then I get an error about Wine being unable to find the Freetype font library. Which is installed (both v2 and v6)
white sonnet
weird, so this is happening on a clean install of proton with the arma exe renamed?
covert quiver
@scenic sleet is the GAMES partition maybe an NTFS partition?
scenic sleet
I don't use Windows at all, so all partitions are linux native filesystems
scenic sleet
sure, will give that a go
covert quiver
i mean to install xact_x64 over protontricks
molten pulsar
wasn't FAudio supposed to at least provide those DLLs/SOs?
scenic sleet
They are on the system, in the steam runtime and as I said, if if specify the paths to both libudev and faudio are passed to LD_LIBRARY_PATH at runtime I do get past those errors only to hit the freetype library issue
it gets much further when I run it directly from steam, it shows a loading UI window - one I've never seen with the linux version, but after than disappears and I get the fullscreen blackscreen it exits with the MT error
molten pulsar
using the command that @covert quiver gave doesn't work for me either, doesn't launch anything
steam itself works fine as far as I know
covert quiver
oh i think you can use gnome-terminal %command% as launch option in steam for example
replace gnome-terminal with the terminal you are using ofc
not sure if a parameter is required though
scenic sleet
well that works but you get no paging, instead I had it redirect the output to a log
the output is interesting, some ELF errors but that's just LD on verbose and can be ignored. Couple of fontconfig errors, but again this doesn't stop it proceeding. then we hit the error that seems most relevant - 0058:err:winediag:FILE_CreateFile Too many open files, ulimit -n probably needs to be increased
covert quiver
you need to increase the DefaultLimitNOFile
you can also use https://github.com/FeralInteractive/gamemode I think it automatically did that for me
scenic sleet
๐
will try that. Will see if there is a way to do that without the reboot, have a background task I don't want to interrupt, otherwise will reboot later
covert quiver
no this is pretty low level stuff
scenic sleet
well increasing that limit worked and surprisingly the game does run pretty well, I still need to try a side by side framerate comparison. There is a wierd and really bad bug though with the mouse, I can't turn more than 70 degrees in any direction, it's as though I'm in mouse look even when I'm not.
and I don't know if I'm just noticing something which is already there, but the normal running from first person makes it sound like I have a bad limp
Another issue, I have Global Mobilization installed, but it wasn't available in the game until I explicitly enabled it under Expansions menu where it was cryptically listed as just "GM"
Which may not be a proton issue, but is it really like this under Windows?
scenic sleet
well it works once enabled under the in-game expansions, but I'm surprised I needed to explicitly enable it considering this is an official CDLC
gritty sage
As with all CDLC's they are optional
scenic sleet
optional I get, but disabled by default I don't
scenic sleet
only if you can't disable them (IMHO)
gritty sage
All other DLC's work by being force-added to -mod
can not do that with something that's supposed to be optional
scenic sleet
and you can disable even the main DLCs through the UI
gritty sage
which ui?
scenic sleet
From main menu, select "Options > Expansions"
gritty sage
I thought that is only for listing loaded mods ๐ค
scenic sleet
oh, that's odd, used to be able to disable them there, at least on linux. Disable option is err, disabled
The official DLCs are listed, but options are greyed out
scenic sleet
this mouse bug makes the game unplayable, anyone know how to fix?
I'd quite like to take GM for a spin, but not being able to turn around is a problem
heavy lion
Two things you could try are disabling mouse grabbing or enabling virtual desktop. Both can be done using wineconfig
scenic sleet
disabling mouse grabbing might be a problem considering I'm using the second monitor on a three monitor setup, losing game focus because my mouse has moved off the centre screen would be a more annoying bug. Will try virtual desktop
heavy lion
It would just disable wine's mouse grabbing. The game itself may still grab the mouse
scenic sleet
but so much for everything working out of the box with Proton. These sorts of issues are the reason I gave up trying to use Wine years ago.
heavy lion
Of course I don't know if any of that may help at all but those are my goto option to mouse related problems with wine
scenic sleet
I miss the linux port already ๐ฆ
when you think about it, Proton is just the new Cedega, only free.
which is ironic, as one of the mooted reason for Cedega's collapse was Valve's push for native linux games. Then Valve end up bringing back the emulation a couple years later
I've just realised I don't even have Wine installed, so no wineconfig
heavy lion
You could still use it by using the proton executable. You could also add virtual desktop by modifing a config file in the prefix
scenic sleet
I guess use the version shipping with steam
heavy lion
This should open winecfg for arma 3 if I haven't made a typo: WINEPREFIX=~/.steam/steam/steamapps/compatdata/107410/pfx ~/.steam/steam/steamapps/common/Proton\ 4.2/dist/bin/wine winecfg
(if you're using Proton 4.2)
If you don't use Proton 4.2 just check your steamapps folder. The Proton versions are installed there
scenic sleet
yeah that worked, with paths adjusted for my system and force enabling WINEESYNC
sadly Wine doesn't seem to be High DPI friendly :), I need to find a magnifying glass to see the winecfg UI ๐
heavy lion
I bet your Desktop Environment has some zoom feature as part of it's accessibility features ;)
scenic sleet
it does, if I had the accessibility features installed ๐
ok, process of elimination, disabling mouse capture didn't work, as expected it just allowed the mouse to move to the other monitors. Let's try Virtual Desktop
virtual desktop is a whole other kind of broken, initial loading splash displays fine, but then it goes to a lower res windowed mode and somehow while navigating the Arma menus I always end up with the game minimised in the virtual desktop and no way to restore it to fullscreen ๐ฆ
heavy lion
Seems like that's not a solution then. May I ask what distro you're using?
scenic sleet
Mageia
I might have to play with the other screens disabled, the mouse issue is looking like it might be connected to the multi-monitor setup
uneven pasture
Changing the fullscreen mode in game fixes that issue
molten pulsar
I'm on dual screen and occasionally the mouse will be a little bit weird but alt+tabbing a couple of times or pausing the game and continuing usually fixes it
escaping seems to "recapture" the mouse or something
gritty sage
Is the modded experience on Proton really good enough that it warrants time investment to get TFAR working there?
How many people are there who play multiplayer on proton with mods and without battleye?
steep lotus
Quite a few of the port players seem to have moved onto proton
gritty sage
Well I sure hope that ALL port players moved to proton, port is outdated so much that it's basically unusable
Also proton supports mods like ACE/TFAR.
Just wondering if I should invest the time to make TFAR work on linux
covert quiver
the legacy TFAR version works quite fine on Proton
someone needs to test one of the newer versions again
you just have to launch teamspeak in your arma WINEPREFIX
About the players on Proton: So far around 99% of the people moved on to proton
the single player I know who didnt already moved on is using a graphics driver which doesnt support Vulkan
plucky schooner
hey, im running a protn version RN, and i have the weird crash every time i enter the server browser
not really sure what it is, but the screen just freezes, @ me with reply i dont often check this server
steep lotus
You may want to ask here, we have a bunch of people running on proton who have fixes for all kinds of weird issues https://discord.gg/p28Ra36 @plucky schooner
plucky schooner
thanks
left fog
@steep lotus the invite is expired , edit it to use nonexpiring url
steep lotus
Oh, thanks for the heads up
oak acorn
Aha!
I dont need no mac branch now!
I got my friends old PC he doesnt use anymore and I just did a quick test on arma and its BUTTER
dry venture
Everyone talking about proton and stuff, but whatโs with official one, how many patches behind?
gritty sage
Official one has been suspended
~~It's on... 1.64? Or 1.8x ? ~~ It's on 1.82 https://dev.arma3.com/ports
Very far behind atleast
hidden grail
BI has stopped updating the port as its not financially viable for them
slim mountain
Kind of sad they stopped porting it's why I gave up purchasing the DLCs because the ports were so far behind.
covert quiver
i think arma will by 100% proton compatible till the end of 2019
and that arma 4 will be linux native ๐
steep lotus
I sure hope so :P For now, arma 3 works well enough in proton that I don't really miss the port at all. Especially since there are a couple of non-BE servers out there
scenic sleet
@covert quiver till the end or by the end? ๐
I wonder if TrackIR works with Proton ... hadn't thought to try
scenic sleet
@covert quiver Oh, ok now I really need to find time between work and real life to try that out. My TrackIR has been sitting pretty much unused since I bought it since I never found the time to get it working with the Linux Port
scenic sleet
well Proton still doesn't work for me with Arma ... ๐ก
If BI aren't going to resume work on the linux port, I wish they would at least work with Valve to getting it running properly under proton ๐ฆ
scenic sleet
I thought I had tried fullscreen-windowed, but that fix the issue thanks.
Unfortunately right now the performance is garbage with fullscreen windowed as that forces me to play at 4K ๐ฆ
scenic sleet
after the Contact release the game no longer starts under Proton for me - can anyone confirm?
timber fossil
So I just built a new PC using PopOS and the graphics are really bad. Low FPS and grass and trees are flickering. Anyone have any thoughts on what that could be?
timber fossil
@hidden grail i7-8700k 1660ti 16gb 3000mhz 1tb pcie nvme
quasi orchid
if you are using the linux branch:
run this installer, this will get you a newer version of WINE with proton
and then when you start the windows version arma w/ it, you have working ACE and TFAR
if anyone wants to try this lmk and I can help you through it
hidden grail
are you using the native or the proton version ?
also what nvidia driver do u use ? proprietary or nouveau ?
quasi orchid
proton version since you have to use it to get proper mod support from ACE and TFAR
afaik
as well as play on any servers that are battleye off
(theres a cool public antistasi server that uses TFAR and ACE)
(that has like ~20 active players always on)
(and is battleye off)
and I use proprietary drivers
quasi orchid
owch
steep lotus
That antistasi server is a lot of fun indeed
timber fossil
@hidden grail Linux branch. 430.?? Proprietary
scenic sleet
I'd stick with the Linux port for now, at least until someone confirms that the latest release works with Wine (it doesn't for me)
As far as flickering grass, disable HBAO
that affects everyone, windows users included.
Can't say why you have low FPS though - how low are you talking and what's the screen resolution?
(everyone fails to mention resolution ...)
short tulip
From what I recall hearing, 430 isn't really mature. It might be better later on, but you should see if 418 gives you better results.
hidden grail
@scenic sleet works for me in Proton
scenic sleet
Doesn't start for me since the contact release ๐
timber fossil
@scenic sleet 1920x1080. ~60-70 fps on marksmen scenario. With auto detect settings. Mostly ultra
Ty @short tulip
scenic sleet
That's good for arma
timber fossil
Shoot with my hardware?
scenic sleet
With that hardware it's excellent
scenic sleet
@hidden grail it wasn't overwritten, double checked
scenic sleet
nothing useful, started from the steam client there is no error. Started from the command line it something about being unable to load file 'PresentationFramework'
timber fossil
@scenic sleet HBAO did stop the flickering ty. There is still another issue with graphics. When I am not moving everything looks great. The second I turn or start running all the detail in everything is gone. It all looks blurred. I dont get it.
timber fossil
I'm starying to think it's a driver issue with PopOS. My Nvidia X Server Settings won't open.
scenic sleet
@hidden grail I manged to get it working by deleting my symbolic link, validating the files, then removing the launcher again and re-linking. I've no idea why that worked but it did
scenic sleet
the presentation framework error appears to relate to .net, which seems to imply that despite the symlink it was still managing somehow to run the launcher. That doesn't make sense, but at least it's working now
well, to a point, still can't run it fullscreen at the right resolution because of the mouse capture issue ๐ฆ Either I run in a stupidly tiny window to get the desired resolution or I can run it fullscreen resolution at 4k with unplayable framerates.
In that respect, performance under Wine is noticably worse that EON as I could at least get a playable framerate at 4k with the port branch
hidden grail
maybe you could try changing the os resolution
timber fossil
Am I allowed to post a picture here?
gritty sage
sure, but you can't
but you can post a link to a picture
But keep in mind the #rules / #info_help_tips that every link needs to have a description
covert quiver
Upload to imgur
covert quiver
Btw proton users: copying imagehlp is no longer needed in proton 4.11
The only tweak you need is starting arma with -noLauncher
And it seems like valve is actively preparing proton for Battleye/other Anticheats
short tulip
Well, I finally switched to the Windows version of ARMA 3 with Proton. But I'm getting the MT Object error.
short tulip
Done
heady ginkgo
So I play on the Mac branch, Iโm wondering if there is a joystick that works on Mac? I have a logi G502 mouse and it has logistech gaming software for their equipment. Would this software still work with a logi joystick on Mac, if not is there one that will?
covert quiver
joysticks wont work on the VP Port
VPs layer, eOn doesnt support it
you can install linux and use proton to play it though, works there ๐
heady ginkgo
Never mind! I got a joystick to work o my Mac Arma 3
covert quiver
Battleye seems to work now
Under proton
PS: use -noLauncher -useBE to get the same results without renaming anything
gritty sage
that will probably also allow to debug/analyze the battleye kernel module while it's running
which.. is a bad thing..
white sonnet
Just tested it and it works without issue
though as mentioned in the reddit post it may cause a ban
wise canyon
covert quiver
@white sonnet can you write a email to BE asking them about this?
white sonnet
Okay
quasi orchid
@ me when you get a response
covert quiver
hmmm using "-useBE -noLauncher" will start with launcher
even after manually accepting BEs tos
covert quiver
not very clean though
quasi orchid
๐คท
covert quiver
we could try porting wpf to wine ๐
uneven pasture
Unrelated but seems planetside 2 also works now
Ah nvm
Just got disconnected
So assume BE issue
quasi orchid
Do not use PROTON_LOG=1 on Arma 3.
If you crash from a memory violation, atleast for me, this happened
quasi orchid
Its a new hard drive benchmarking tool
Essentially it wrote like the same 10 lines of error code
But about 4 times every milisecond
so 40000 lines of text per second
white sonnet
so what was that error?
quasi orchid
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:dump_unwind_info 0x1: unknown code 6
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:dump_unwind_info 0x0: unknown code 6
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:dump_unwind_info 0x4: subq $0x18,%rsp
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:dump_unwind_info handler 0x14001016e data at 0x1400115f8
39155.164:0032:0036:fixme:seh:RtlVirtualUnwind unknown unwind info version 2 at 0x1400115e8
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:RtlVirtualUnwind type 1 rip 14000520c rsp 98e8f0
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:dump_unwind_info func 51d8-5241
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:dump_unwind_info unwind info at 0x1400115e8 flags 1 prolog 0x4 bytes function 0x1400051d8-0x140005241
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:dump_unwind_info 0x1: unknown code 6
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:dump_unwind_info 0x0: unknown code 6
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:dump_unwind_info 0x4: subq $0x18,%rsp
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:dump_unwind_info handler 0x14001016e data at 0x1400115f8
39155.164:0032:0036:fixme:seh:RtlVirtualUnwind unknown unwind info version 2 at 0x1400115e8
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:RtlVirtualUnwind type 1 rip 14000520c rsp 98e8f0
39155.164:0032:0036:trace:seh:dump_unwind_info func 51d8-5241```earlier up it identified as an access violation
the server reported "Battleye not responding" when it kicked me after 20 minutes
I was using Proton 4.13 (patched wine 4.13 with the patches from 4.11) but I saw the same thing on 4.11
white sonnet
4.13 is in steam beta I assume since I'm still using 4.11
quasi orchid
its from github
made a correction
so yeah, it seems like Battleye stopped responding and it caused the crash
i asked OP on the reddit post for his config because he apparently isnt having that issue
or if anyone else isnt please hit me with your settings, command line args, etc
white sonnet
Interesting, well if you find his configs feel free to ping me, I need to write a section on the ArmaOnUnix wiki about this
So far this battleeye thing has been promising, I haven't heard of anyone being banned yet so all seems well
uneven pasture
From the sounds of it, BE only works in arma
white sonnet
I wonder why
uneven pasture
Maybe arma doesnt make some calls that cause it not to work with others
Suppose their FAQ suggests that they only ban for intentional bypassing BE
Generally we only ever ban for the use of actual cheats/hacks or components of such hacks which are designed to intentionally bypass BEโs protection. Otherwise you donโt need to worry about getting banned.
Didnt really want to test it on arma for obvious reasons
gritty sage
their FAQ suggests that they only ban for intentional bypassing BE
Yeah... Unlike that one time they had cheat engine detection built in and would ban you for having cheat engine open while playing the game, even if not using it..
Ofc they only ban for intentional hacking..
white sonnet
I'm going to try and make a new prefix, maybe that will fix the crashing
I'm also going to use the audio bug fix in the reddit post since that could also cause the crashing
white sonnet
lasted longer but still crashed
quasi orchid
is it after 12 minutes, you just freeze? @white sonnet
white sonnet
Yup, I'm currently trying a bunch of launch parameters
quasi orchid
I am to
Doing crash testing
Currently at 14 minutes sitting ingame from editor
PROTON_NO_ESYNC=1 %command% -nosplash -maxMem=6144 -maxVRam=6144 -hugepages -skipIntro -world=empty
that's what I'm running right now
plus
Check Signatures
Extra Threads (and all options under it)
Enable Hyperthreading
Skip Logos
and No Pause
white sonnet
does setting -maxMem and -maxVRam help with performance?
quasi orchid
i mean
as i identified earlier the crash was caused by a memory access violation
so i thought it was logical to use the memory parameters
white sonnet
my soup:
PROTON_NO_ESYNC=1 PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC=30 PROTON_FORCE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE=1 %command% -nolauncher -noSplash -noPause -hugepages -skipIntro -useBE
white sonnet
yeah it doesn't work when -useBE is on
also some file failed to verify called enoch.ebo
white sonnet
verifying files currently, if that doesn't work I'll revert to my old settings
quasi orchid
so we know it's either -hugepages -skipIntro (unlikely) or -nosplash
since we can just compare the options we both set
or nopause
but nopause has worked fine for me before
so I doubt it
white sonnet
I haven't tested if the game also crashes outside of multiplayer
white sonnet
no I don't know what is going on, I reverted back to my original launch parameters and it's no longer working
I did however reset my prefix so it might be that
white sonnet
hotfix released a bit eariler: https://dev.arma3.com/post/spotrep-00090
maybe not all of us got the update yet
quasi orchid
i deleted the folder and waiting for the update to download
white sonnet
alright good luck, I'm trying to see if I can make it get a different error
nope didn't work
I tried deleting and verifying the file it said didn't match
white sonnet
ah maybe the servers hasn't been updated yet
as it says in the server browser "Mods on client and server don't match"
white sonnet
yeah confirmed it, we have the newer version but the servers aren't updated yet
we have 1.94.145977 while the server has 1.94.145903
white sonnet
Got it fixed and was able to join a game
but still no luck on the crashing issue
lasted an hour in singleplayer though
until I got on a multiplayer game
quasi orchid
i see
try setting PROTON_LOGS=1 if you have hard drive space
@white sonnet
just be prepared to close your game very quickly
1500 characters written (estimate) per milisecond when you crash if you get the same error as I do
quasi orchid
Your home folder
it will be called steam-107410.log
unless i got the arma 3 id wrong
white sonnet
as expected logging is causing a lot of lag
quasi orchid
so my arma wasnt starting because i'm big dumby
PROTON_FORCE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE=1 PULSE_LATENCY_MSEC=30 -hugepages PROTON_NO_ESYNC=1 %command% -nosplash -maxMem=6144 -maxVRam=6144 -skipIntro -world=empty
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
white sonnet
yeah -hugepages should be after %command%
quasi orchid
well I figured that out