nobody ever said downgrade
#linux_mac_branch
hasty pelican
hasty pelican
no, the Port itself is not temporary
the multiplayer-compatibility with windows is temporary
smoky crater
Take this as unofficial.. we are hoping at VP that 1.78 will be far less work to bring across than the others have been,
so with a bit of luck when 1.78 comes to windows, it can be brought to mac/linux quickly also
but as i said, thats not an official statement ๐
uneven locust
โค
scenic sleet
so the issue with certain keys like \ (UK keyboard layout) not being recognised in the game still exists. Well they are recognised but show as UNEXPECTED_KEY_ID in the bindings
smoky crater
hmm.. i will feed that back to the devs.. though it's odd as I am from the UK and never noticed this before
but I know our keymap stuff isnt perfect, X11 doesnt make it easy
scenic sleet
well the X11 protocol is 26 years old, the 8bit limit on key ids is a pain in the neck and it causes issues for a lot of developers. They are finally talking about X12 though whether that actually goes anywhere at all is another matter.
smoky crater
i doubt it, if anything it will be Wayland
the main issue we have is getting keymap information
and everyone says "just use SDL" but that does not get us the lower level information we need
scenic sleet
so probably relevant is the fact that the # key maps to \ in game, suggesting that the map is using the wrong layout
scenic sleet
Arma treats that as Shift + 3
so it's hard to say
By which I mean that any combo involving shift is treated as a combo rather than inputting the shifted character
scenic sleet
at least in the bindings, let me check text fields
so in text fields the keys map correctly, even # is correct
smoky crater
text entry might be handled differently as that might be from WM_CHAR windows messages, and we probably send those directly from whatever SDL has translated
but raw keyboard input eg DirectInput is different
scenic sleet
although the game's font doesn't include the ยฃ character, it renders as ร
smoky crater
ah that sounds more like incorrectly translated Unicode
UTF8 representation of ยฃ comes out as รยฃ if you dont handle the two byte sequence
scenic sleet
yep
smoky crater
we would probably be better skipping XEvents and working with udev directly, but that could be a lot of work.. plus i dont know how good that would be on various Linux distro's
scenic sleet
yeah, good luck if you do go that route, I briefly considered doing that a few years back in order to support keycodes > 255 which are mapped int the kernel keymap but which X11 cannot handle. Ultimately I just moved on to more important things and never went back to it.
smoky crater
yeah this is the problem really, where to go with doing that
it doesnt help that many people on Linux just say "just use SDL" like that fixes everything. It doesnt.
scenic sleet
I don't expect VP to do it as it's not necessarily in their interests, but it would be good to see some of the work necessary to address the shortcomings in SDL being done in that stack as it will ease the porting of games to the platform for all those indie devs who can't afford to outsource the job. I expect that if any company contributes that time back to SDL it would be the likes of valve who have want to increase adoption of Linux as a gaming platform.
that said, it depends on the SDL team being willing to compromise and cooperate, if they are too rigid then any effort of that sort would come to a grinding halt. Open source developers can be their own worst enemies at times ( I say that as one )
smoky crater
Valve appears to be the only one doing it, and thats mainly because they hired SDL developers anyway
and well, yeah... things tend to turn into an argument when you contribute to open source
i expect we would have enough people against us anyway as there are tons of Linux people against eON in general
scenic sleet
philosophically I wish the need for eON didn't exist, but I live in the real world and accept that many games developers aren't going to provide cross platform support natively.
smoky crater
thing is people criticise us and then praise Feral - Feral have their own wrapper layer too
scenic sleet
yep, it's just unfortunate that misunderstanding exists. I think that it has a little to do with the differing approaches of the two companies to PR etc. Which I guess is at least partly down to the differing business models. Feral interacts with the community in a way that VP don't (and can't) so they are seen as the 'good guys' who can do no wrong, while all most people really know about VP is that they wrap games.
smoky crater
yes people have this idea that we just chuck a completely unmodified windows executable into eON and thats it. That is completely wrong.
scenic sleet
and let's be honest, the perceived issues with The Witcher 2 on it's linux release did sour people's impression of eON - that was the first big game that people directly associated with VP and from what I saw and heard it was a little bit problematic. I've since bought the game and it plays great, so obviously those problems were resolved, but you know what they say about first impressions.
smoky crater
the big issue i have is with the people who will put our ports down because theyre "Not native"
Linux doesnt have the luxury of "Native or nothin" attitude
id like to point out these are my personal opinions BTW, not that of VP. Not that that will stop people associating the two!
scenic sleet
for some it's the thin end of the wedge, the old "if we accept this, then what's to prevent every company doing the same" - no-one really wants Linux to forever stay that second tier platform that only gets hand me downs from Windows.
As I said earlier, I accept the commercial realities, but I do strongly sympathise with that viewpoint.
and hey, even Microsoft are actually producing native applications for linux. Which is both pleasing and yet deeply troubling, like that old man in a trenchcoat offering sweets to kids, you're not sure whether their motives are good or very evil.
short tulip
If it's Microsoft reaching out to something that they don't control, it's obviously going to be evil.
Also, I think the "native or nothing" attitude might make sense for software developed in a future era when it becomes common for developers to make software using Vulkan and Metal, as opposed to DirectX 11/12. But it's hard for most games nowadays and from a while ago.
smoky crater
the thing Linux needs to wise up about, is that they are the 1% market and if they want support, it needs to be earned and not demanded. Also there are technical issues which are being either dismissed, or developers get attacked when they bring them up
devs arent going to drop DirectX over night
and Vulkan does not compete with DirectX10 and 11 which still have plenty of mileage in them
anyway DirectX vs Vulkan vs GL is not the big problem with Linux...
short tulip
I'm honestly not sure how Linux can earn more support. It's impossible for it to earn support from developers without a strong userbase. And it's impossible for it to earn support from users without a lot of software supporting it. It's the whole Chicken vs Egg conundrum. Lots of people in one of the large groups are going to have to be completely irrational in their support for Linux in order for it to be rationally accepted by the other side.
scenic sleet
there's the problem. How many people have we heard say over the years that they would get rid of Windows if Linux was a viable gaming platform? Case in point there was a long discussion in the #general_chat_arma channel yesterday or the day before about how much people hate Windows - from users of Windows. They do however feel they are stuck on that platform because that the one on which all their applications and games will run.
What is at least reassuring to me is that Linux is much more widely known than it was when I started using it. Admittedly it might have something to do with the world I move in, but I'm constantly surprised to hear friends, family and colleagues talking about using linux.
Desktop linux gets far more than it's fair share of coverage in the mainstream media here too, which is only boosting awareness and maybe one day soon we will reach a tipping point.
sly rover
I understand not using SDL, but I don't understand why SDL would not work for keyboard input. It has scancodes and keycodes for each event.
smoky crater
hero, SDL doesnt tell you anything about the keymap
ie how the keyboard is laid out
as for windows users hating windows, its not so much they hate Windows IMO, its that they hate the technical aspects of computers. They would have just as much trouble, if not more trouble with Linux
in fact more so with linux. imagine if a non technical user has an issue with something that turns out to be a graphics driver bug. on Windows, its simple - they can find out easily what gpu they have, go to www.nvidia.com or www.amd.com or whatever, download an executable, run it.. drivers up to date
on Linux.. well.. depends what distro first, what kernel version, are they running X11 or Wayland, etc etc etc.. then its tell them how to get nv's binary driver to work (or find a suitable PPA or such), or Mesa.. or do they actually have Intel in which case theyre Shit outta luck ๐
arctic oyster
@smoky crater you work with VP ?
smoky crater
not to mention ive had plenty of times where i have done stuff with graphics driver updates, which have ended up with X11 being completely broken
yes, i do.
arctic oyster
oh nice
smoky crater
the way i see it is like this
windows has problems. Linux has problems. OS X has problems. they all have their own problems and one does not outweigh the other
arctic oyster
You as been aware of mouse capture issue ?
smoky crater
@arctic oyster please be more specific, what sort of "capture issue"
on what distro, what window manager, etc
arctic oyster
I have Fedora 26, Xorg, NIVIDA Drivers 387.12 and if i start arma and i am not focused on windows (large view on gnome) arma 3 crash. And if focused on other windows, and return to arma the mouse capture is bugged.
smoky crater
ok all i can say is that we have not seen that in testing on Fedora so far
smoky crater
good, i was going to ask that next ๐
arctic oyster
thank, this bug exist with very long time and i have asked Dwarden last month.
smoky crater
thats one thing i can mention officially here
when you report bugs for the Mac or Linux versions, dont just paste the logs. That doesnt get us all the info. We NEED the crash reference number
arctic oyster
You have gif #358756384973520906
smoky crater
because that reference number gets us the submitted data on our end, including a core dump of the crash
arctic oyster
smoky crater
ok the crash i can get looked into.. i'll see if we can reproduce the mouse capture problem but we have not seen that on our end.. and we alt-tab away from the game all the time in development
when you say mouse capture is bugged, do you mean the position of the mouse cursor is wrong?
arctic oyster
X is incremented to -1 and Y work perfected i remenber. I go searching, exactly what is wrong.
You run the game on fullscreen for alt+tab ?
smoky crater
we have
arctic oyster
Okey, because this bugs is only on fullscreen.
smoky crater
also, BI do a full QA test on all the ports. they put it through the same tests that they put the Windows versions through, several distro's, several different hardware setups
arctic oyster
yes
smoky crater
im not happy with mouse input via XEvents either, but again that would be big work to switch everything over to udev
handling relative mouse movement under X11 sucks
because it has no relative mouse movement stuff, you have to cheat
ultimately the worst problems for us to fix are the ones we cannot reproduce ourselves
arctic oyster
I confirm, 2 bugs work only if you are focused on other windows without arma3 windows. (no bug if you are on all view on gnome).
I try to screen the bug. And the mouse capture bug is only for gui. In game, i can mouve my character ๐
arctic oyster
Yes, i have 2 screen 1920x1080
smoky crater
ok
multi monitor is always a headache on linux..
could you test if you can reproduce the issue when you disable one monitor ?
arctic oyster
headache ? I don't understand :(. I can test on 1 screen.
smoky crater
@arctic oyster correct handling of multiple monitor setups is difficult.. things often go wrong because Xorg realy sucks at it
im not sure how well multi monitor stuff gets tested
arctic oyster
https://imgur.com/a/OFgkK In red is the movement on my map and Y axis is ok on center line. But the scare cursor on map is okey no bug.
The mouvement is not controled by me
smoky crater
which screen do you have the game on usually, the primary monitor or the secondary ? As X11 sees it..
arctic oyster
I can play on my secondary screen, it is my primary screen. And the bug work on 1 screen only.
can't*
smoky crater
ok..
you should be able to run the game on either screen, so that doesnt sound right.. i will pass this along
i am betting the problem does not happen on a single monitor setup.. it is probably some confusion about which monitor the game runs on, so the mouse coordinates get incorrectly clipped in X
hm, you could try a command line parameter
--eon_force_display=X where X is a monitor number starting from 0
see if that helps
arctic oyster
Is not necessary, i have remove 1 screen but. I haven't restart my game lol. He work on 1 screen, excuse me ๐
Lol, i have reactivate my secondary screen and i restart my game. The game running on my secondary screen, if i ALT+ENTER my game window is on my primary screen.
scenic sleet
@smoky crater I've noticed since the update to 1.70 that tool which captured backtraces and allowed you to submit them directly is no longer being used or isn't working? I've actually had a few crashes since the update but due to an extreme shortage of few time (or maybe just being completely exhausted when I am free), I've not gone hunting for the dumps to upload them.
multi-monitor shouldn't be an issue, at least it's not for me and I have 3 screens
though I do run Arma on the primary (middle) one
smoky crater
@scenic sleet it should be working
if you want to test that, kill the game with SIGABRT or so
(I wrote the crash reporter... well.. me and the Breakpad authors ๐ )
scenic sleet
will do, assuming it is working, I guess it could have been murdered by the OOM killer ... or the EON runloop itself crashed ...
smoky crater
even if the eon runloop crashes, breakpad should be triggered, which triggers our crashreporter
but yeah if the OOM killer explicitly kills the game, then it'll just shut down
scenic sleet
next time I'll dig into it a little deeper
smoky crater
even if the crash reporter fails to load for some dependancy reason (it requires gtk3) you should still get a dialog box from xenity or so
short tulip
Another easy way to see the crash reporter is to do what I did: click the Server Browser in Launcher button in the server browser. That gets a nice crash.
scenic sleet
yeah, that hasn't been the case for any of these 'crashes', I'll see what I can find out
I am pushing things a little on the memory front because I'm running at a QHD or 4K, I should double up to 32GB
wouldn't surprise me if it was the OOM killer
smoky crater
thing is i dont think we can detect that happening
or i would put in some kind of trap to detect it and report it to the user
Even if it was just a dialog box that said "The game was killed by the system OOM killer"
if anyone knows different and you can tell when your app is getting killed by the OOM killer, please do tell me ๐
but afaik you cant, its just a SIGKILL which you cant handle
scenic sleet
yeah, you're right, it's intentionally not a trappable signal, because if you could then it could also be ignored which would be undesirable
if it's the oom killer then it will be in the system logs, but you have to know to look there which isn't going to be the case for most users who just see what they assume to be a crash
smoky crater
without a custom crash reporter in place, on Linux any crash looks like an exit.. which is very annoying
but yes, the crash reporter should always work.. if it isnt then either the game is exiting "cleanly" or it's being sent a SIGKILL by something else
scenic sleet
Oct 30 15:15:47 scafell kernel: [1219315.681358] oom_reaper: reaped process 25602 (E.runloop), now anon-rss:0kB, file-rss:144204kB, shmem-rss:21168kB
so looks like it was OOM
smoky crater
ok. annoying that the first thread name and the process name seem to be the same!
but better than not naming threads at all
scenic sleet
guess I'll be spending some money this weekend
smoky crater
well thank you for supporting the port at any rate ๐
scenic sleet
I'm a die hard Arma fan, I'm also a die hard Linux user. I bought Arma 3 long before a linux port was even mentioned to support BI and on the off-chance that it might one day come to linux, hardly believing that would ever be the case. I'm pretty glad that it actually happened and that I've been able to play the game I bought ๐
smoky crater
just wish more linux users would realise it is more likely the port will get "official" status if they buy it..
scenic sleet
well that's a catch 22, again many users aren't going to buy a game which isn't even listed as available for their platform on Steam (or even BI's own store) and then risk the 'experiment' being cancelled.
it's one thing if you've got the money and are willing to take the risk, but another if ยฃ40+ is a lot for you to gamble
I'm not sure how BI are calculating linux 'sales' and users, I hope despite buying the game before the linux port was available that my purchase still somehow falls into the linux column.
Obviously I usually wait for the game to be released for linux before buying and only play the games on Linux, Arma 3 was just a special case because Op Flash had a huge impact on me before I quit Windows for good.
smoky crater
TBH i think kickstarter and such havent helped here, people promising linux support for things as a goal without any idea how difficult it is.. and then backing out of support but keeping the money
rain flint
@scenic sleet hi, sorry to bother you, but what can one play on linux instead? i loved the MP on arma on windows but there are so few of us on linux
sly rover
@rain flint You know that the Linux client is compatible with Windows right now, right?
As in, we can play with them.
minor lily
@sweeper#7366 people on Steam complaining about bad performance on R7 under Windows. I have this game smooth on i5 2500K under Linux ๐ so there are space for more people to play than on Windows by my experience. Also there are so many games on Linux that I don't know what to play first.
scenic sleet
@rain flint Was your question about Arma, or about what other games are available for linux?
molten pulsar
https://normsportal.co.uk/index.php/game-news/arma-3/item/74-arma-3-dev-talks-modding-the-future
We're now slowly switching the focus from Arma 3 to the development of our new core technology, which we call the Enfusion engine. This engine should also support multiple platforms including the major consoles.
๐
short tulip
Alright! As long as it offers native support for Mac and Linux via Metal and Vulkan, I'll be all for it.
uneven locust
noice
hidden grail
awesome ๐
uneven locust
Guys do you think with this specs I can Run Arma 3 on Medium settings:
-2 x 2,26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processor
-8 GB DDR3 ECC a 1066 MHz ram
-ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024 MB video card
oh and I have the OSX El capitan
scenic sleet
Whoohoo!!
uneven locust
?
dusk ermine
no idea how Xeon at 2.26 will run, but i guess that knowing arma uses 1 core a lot and the others are mostly free, u will need to turn down many grafics and distance options @uneven locust also the performance in singleplayer empty map its so diferent of multiplayer in a big city like kavala... my shitty AMD phenom x4 @3,2 run stratis at 40fps with some minor drops but unplayable freezes on altis kavala with maximun 17fps with the same configuration (1200m vision distance)
uneven locust
ok thanks
short tulip
I remember getting a lot of problems from running out of RAM back when I had 16GB of RAM. That was before I had a 64-bit build of the game. It's also before I upgraded it to 32GB. I honestly can't imagine the game running well with it's OS on an 8GB system.
uneven locust
this scare me
heavy lion
@short tulip The 32 bit version only used 4 out of your 16 GB RAM. Only since the 64 bit version having more than 4 GB actually helps running the game better.
The game is running ok for me with 8GB RAM, may be different for OSX though.
uneven locust
@smoky crater Hmm I think yes How can I check that?
short tulip
Okay. Well, my Firefox is bloated as heck anyway. And it's a pain to shut it down, so I had lots of OOM errors with games that used even that much RAM. That's why I had to upgrade.
arctic oyster
@smoky crater Crash launcher doesn't support arma 3 frozen. Last day i have close arma but the process he doesn't closed. And the crash report wait the process. I had to kill the tree process for restart arma. It a feature to add.
smoky crater
of course, if it's not a crash, then crash reporter doesnt run
arctic oyster
@uneven locust You don't have Mac workstation ?
uneven locust
nope
arctic oyster
Ha, okey. But 2x Xeon it generaly for workstration with Quadro.
smoky crater
we stopped using OpenGL on Macs because Apple's OpenGL support is rubbish
uneven locust
ok
arctic oyster
@smoky crater it's for perf or other ?
smoky crater
mostly performance yes
uneven locust
@smoky crater so the game would not start anyway?
smoky crater
no, if your Mac cannot support Metal then the game will not run.
arctic oyster
Eon support Vulkan ?
smoky crater
it doesn't right now
uneven locust
@smoky crater ok thank you
arctic oyster
It's interesting for arma. What can it perf give compare to OpenGL.
smoky crater
while i cant say officially, i dont think it is likely we would support both Vulkan AND GL. it'd be a switch over to Vulkan, if we did it i think
for the same reason we dropped GL on the Mac and went exclusively to Metal
arctic oyster
What is the eon*.TMP create in /tmp/ ? Sometime is 1-2 Go files.
smoky crater
its files created by windows temporary files api.. we just put them there
so if arma3 creates temp files, thats where they go
arctic oyster
You don't have possibility to create this directly in memory ?
smoky crater
no we implement it as its implemented on windows. if its temporary files on disk we do that.
we do what the game expects
arctic oyster
Okey, it very hard for my disk life. ๐ฆ
And for the callExtension (dll), it work or not actualy?
smoky crater
you mean mods that call Windows DLLs ?
arctic oyster
yes
smoky crater
I dont think this was tested. It depends on what the DLL tries to do.
if it's a dll that talks to other windows apps like teamspeak, then it will not work
arctic oyster
eon can run dll ?
smoky crater
yes but there are limits
gritty sage
callExtension'ing .so's works though?
arctic oyster
And support native .so ?
gritty sage
๐
arctic oyster
lol
smoky crater
honestly I dont know about this. We have not tested it.
arctic oyster
It's existant question ๐
smoky crater
i dont think mods that call external libraries are common ?
gritty sage
Well TFAR/ACRE.
And I'd like to port Intercept to Linux client too.
arctic oyster
gritty sage
But I don't really want to build a full Linux dev environment just to find out that it actually won't work
smoky crater
what do those use DLL's for ? im afraid I dont know those mods ๐
gritty sage
TFAR/ACRE are Radio mods. They use the extension to send player position and other data to Teamspeak
And you don't know Intercept? :D
Intercept is a C++ binding to SQF scripting
arctic oyster
If VP haven't touch BI work. Actualy the port, probably detect only .dll
gritty sage
If I inject code into the engine to call dlopen directly from within the engine would that work?
Or would the VM say "Hey! That's not a Windows thing! you can't do that."
smoky crater
eon isnt a virtual machine, so it wouldnt stop you, but BattlEye might
arctic oyster
But RV how to detect RV function on loading dll ?
smoky crater
i think for this to work we would have to look at implementing native .so support into Arma3, and that would have to be agreed with BI
gritty sage
Is there a special Battleye version for Linux?
On windows the only thing that might prevent loading a dll/so is Battleyes kernel driver
They already have .so support on Linux server
smoky crater
yes there is special battleye support for linux and os x..
gritty sage
And server and client are using the exact same function for calling extensions
arctic oyster
Honesly, BE security is very bullshit. It's limited to basicaly detection walk / ect...
gritty sage
So it's really just a matter of using the existing linux version of that func on linux
I guess there is no easy answer besides downloading the port and trying myself
smoky crater
we could only commit to doing native support of extensions for mac/linux if BI request we do it.. so if you want to see this supported you must ask BI
gritty sage
Okey just got report that .so extensions seem to work. I guess I can trust that
arctic oyster
@left fog have say is possible but no more information
EON doesn't have possibility to check .dll and .so file ?
On call function in sqf callExtension ?
gritty sage
I just answered that.
smoky crater
it would not be at the eON level that this happens. It would be at the game's level. eON implements Windows API functions
gritty sage
I asked someone and he says .so worked a few days ago.
Running dll on linux doesn't really make much sense anyway.
Are you also implementing windows file API? Or is Arma using it's own linux implementation of that? As they have it already on the Linux server I guess they could use that
arctic oyster
yes, you can add conversion Windows DLL API to unix api in engine.
smoky crater
yes we implement the windows file api's
arctic oyster
@gritty sage yes, it not make sense. But all extesion now is in dll format. For exemple Maverik onfuscation use dll on startup mission.
And i don't testing this. But i think he doesn't worked
gritty sage
Making a Linux .so is easy.
Considering you are paying for the obfuscation thingy. Tell them to port it to linux.
arctic oyster
Lol, is very hard. I think he doesn't know the port exist. For exemple, infiStar don't care of wine problem caused on dll loading.
gritty sage
infiStar generally doesn't care ๐
arctic oyster
True lol
gritty sage
It's really not hard. ACE just made Linux versions of their extensions yesterday. Took half an hour... Would have taken 10 minutes if they had a newer compiler available.
Depends on what you are doing ofcause...
arctic oyster
ACE is Open-souce lol. It's very easy for open-source but for close-source it's a another history lol
arctic oyster
You can compile easily for another plateform.
smoky crater
linux has some things that will bite you, glibc/libstdc++ versioning is probably the biggest hassle
gritty sage
Yeah.. I just stuck to shipping libstdc++ with my extension for now ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
left fog
i said you can do it thru the allocator but it's not the CE per say, also that was related to linux dedicated-server (native) no idea if possible for client (ports)
gritty sage
Linux dedicated already has offical extension support.
And ACE team reports extensions work on linux port client.
So all questions answered ^^
So as you said dll loading might work.
Does Eon implement LoadLibrary? Does it have a PE loader?
smoky crater
yes it has a PE loader and implements LoadLibrary
partly why we get so much hate mail ๐
heavy lion
Do you guys still get hate mail?
molten pulsar
I did try loading a .so with the previous port version and it didn't work at all
could be incompetence but strace didn't show any file access to the .so ๐ค
did anyone try filePatching on the latest update btw?
previous version would pretty much break with filePatching turned on
break as in randomly crashing within 2 minutes or so and all audio gone
scenic sleet
heh, that's really messed up
smoky crater
heh nice... what Mac was that?
@unique finch what OS version did that Mac have, and what graphics chip?
molten pulsar
opened the picture 3 times now and I just spotted what's wrong ๐
sly rover
I wonder if I was doing something wrong or if addons always worked on the Linux port.
unique finch
@smoky crater latest High Sierra and Intel Iris Plus 650
latest macbook pro 13
in top config
OSX 10.13.1
smoky crater
heh ok. might be a driver bug
unique finch
how can driver screw the model?
arctic oyster
Yes, it's a very big bug if it's the drive.
dry venture
high sierra is in beta afaik
smoky crater
easy - an occlusion query could tell you those polys are occluded when they arent
or it could be a shader which doesnt run correctly and renders things transparent
id experiment with the graphics settings to see if it makes any difference. but if it's a repeatable issue, report it on feedback.bistudio.com
scenic sleet
in this case it appears the heli interior has been rendered much smaller, so it appears the guys sitting in the heli are outside of it
minor lily
looks like product of altered libraries. I hope that writing cheats for this game will be a lot harder than for cs:go, when altering and injecting libs are producing bad results. who cares about sending position to ts when we can say it. who wants to change simulation to arcade game?
scenic sleet
Battleeye is supposed to catch that sort of thing
minor lily
@scenic sleet is BattleEye perfect?
scenic sleet
no system is perfect, but I believe it does a pretty good job
minor lily
@scenic sleet well, but still, in my opinion, there is not reason to make altering and injecting libraries easy. Also if there is some special case when some exotic library is changing geometry, fixing it can make space for altered library which can do it on demand with hit boxes or other stuff. Are you sure that BattleEye can detect this what we see on picture of heli interior? I have not idea how is this glitch even possible or if it can be some test how to force devs to open some backdoors. I just don't like cheaters so when game is stable on most setups, I think fixing strange behavior on one setup can be risk. Don't forget that there are many online games destroyed by cheaters like pubg, csgo etc. I like this game online, but cheaters can change it forever.
smoky crater
im wondering if BattlEye is as effective on Mac/Linux, as afaik it does not have a kernel module on these systems
but yes.. I stopped playing Unreal Tournament (99, many years ago) because cheaters became common
to make it worse, because people were becoming weary of cheaters.. if you were a good player (i was) you were often accused of cheating simply because you were doing well. very annoying
short tulip
The only game that I played that was affected by cheating was Maple Story. It was fairly common to go into a map looking to hunt monsters only to find someone using hack programs to instakill every monster in the room and gather all the loot from one spot that they shouldn't be in the first place. I couldn't even report them because Nexon limits how many users we can report (probably out of fear of people abusing the report system to report innocent players of cheating). I finally gave up when I was in the narrow level range for party quests, and adamantly wanted to only level up doing those. EVERY SINGLE GROUP WANTED TO CHEAT IN IT! And I couldn't even put together a group of honest players large enough to run. That was the last straw.
scenic sleet
back in the day Quake 2 (and it's mods) were full of cheaters, same for Half Life and it's mods (including Counter Strike). I stopped playing games shortly after that because I'd moved to linux so I really don't know what the current size of the problem is.
smoky crater
hl2 etc are probably less cheatful now because of VAC
not many people want to risk a VAC ban ๐
minor lily
VAC is too slow and cheaters are using scam to get money from items to create new accounts and purchase new copies of game. Situation was never worse in VAC guarded games with marketable items implemented.
arctic oyster
@smoky crater not only. VAC is more powerfull because is in server-side and HL2 use REAL client-side / server-side system. And NO Battleye is no effective on linux for memory editing and sqf injection. But on Mac i don't know. ๐
@minor lily VAC is only for walk, aimbot, ect... no for buyable items industrie. And it's is big profit for Valve lol
If arma want more security. He should to make greater sqf security protocol. Because now the server is a simple rooter for client and the client it's is the owner of the party.
And erase battleye for their aimbot system. And read all documentation of PhyX because it's is very bullshit on arma.
left fog
@arctic oyster VAC server side? ... where you came over that fairy tale ?
naive hinge
Last I heard Linux/mac were the goto if you wanted to circumvent VAC
gritty sage
Are you actually able to Join Battleye enabled servers with the Linux version?
molten pulsar
yes
sly rover
Linux and macOS people are definitely detected by VAC, though it is possible that this wasn't always the case.
It is also possible that Valve just waited a long time to punish anyone, to be certain it was working properly on a different platform.
short tulip
@gritty sage The one server I got onto during this Parity Time (P, A, R, I, T, Why? 'cause I gotta), it was VAC enabled.
gritty sage
VAC enabled? Arma? Huh?
arctic oyster
@left fog It's is for deletecting game modification, but Valve know is not very secure for based all anti-cheat engine on the client ^^ because all security on client have the most be possiblily to can be bypassed. All most of cheating system is on the server (it's the base of security). We are talking about it the of sqf system createVehicle who should be on server-side only and the server can't determinate what is the creator of this entity, ect... ? And how number cheater can bypassing BE on arma ? On GMOD, lua system is not filtered by VAC but he has more very less cheater (lua cheater). No free spawn entity, no free teleport, no free kill, no free admin right.
gritty sage
Arma doesn't give out real VAC bans though
left fog
all global bans in Arma are via BattlEye ... that's the gamebans you see
dusk ermine
there are plans for an official linux/mac launcher? loading mods from the workshop is a pain atm
arctic oyster
It more interresting to create a open-source community launcher leaded by BI. ๐ But is a utopia
smoky crater
youd just have a big argument over what UI system to use
linux people would want gtk, mac people would want cocoa.. etc
someone would say Qt but ugh, Qt
molten pulsar
ncurses FTW ๐
surreal sinew
why not Qt? serious question
smoky crater
too heavy on the C++ for my liking, and a bit heavyweight for something like a launcher
id probably go with wxwidgets if i was doing one
not sure what the official windows one is in, though it is C#/.NETish i think
dry venture
@dusk ermine old school modding LUL
Mac/linux both support swift language, it could start as community project and then supported by Bohemia
scenic sleet
QML + Qt isn't so C++ heavy
but hey, I'm a C++ developer so it really doesn't phase me
I still want to write a launcher in Qt if I ever get the time
come to think of it, there'd be next to no code for a launcher application, you'd spend more time on UI layout and design than you would on the logic.
gritty sage
I wrote a Launcher in Qt. It's working beautifully. But the code is a mess. Every Qt program I write in QT creator ends up being a mess.
scenic sleet
yeah ... I wouldn't personally use QT Creator
sly rover
With QML you can do almost everything in JavaScript, I think.
So if you really want to limit your usage of C++, there are still options!
What you can't do is write it in Rust, unless if you make your own bindings.
@gritty sage Have you published the source to that launcher?
gritty sage
no
sly rover
Do you want to? ๐
gritty sage
Most of it is proprietary stuff. Very entangled with our database which takes care of repo management and mission assignments and it even has a integrated forum. So most of it wouldn't be of much use. It's also mainly targetting windows ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ Most I could give out is the UI and stuff that you could write yourself in half an hour.. And I don't think the UI fits very well
molten pulsar
in b4 someone comes up with some lame node.js / electron solution ๐ฆ
sly rover
@molten pulsar You mean like this? https://github.com/MustD/a3al
Basically, you are not in before anything.
gritty sage
Mac/Linux TFAR might be coming sooner than expected :U The Mac Teamspeak plugin is already compiling and loading in TS.
scenic sleet
Nice
molten pulsar
@sly rover SIGH ๐
sly rover
@left fog Would you be open to bridging the Discord server to Matrix?
It would be useful for me because I literally only check Discord occasionally for this one channel.
Matrix is a federated, decentralized chat protocol that has a bunch of nice features (including first class bridges).
sly rover
Yup. There is a bridge set up already that you can use: https://t2bot.io/discord/
I figured you might, but it doesn't hurt to let everyone else know what I'm talking about.
obtuse grail
I wonder if parity with the next update will coincide or if not I wonder how long it will be before the 2 versions pair again...
scenic sleet
very unlikely to coincide, various people from VP have indicated that they only get the code to work on after it's released for Windows
gritty sage
They said in the last sitrep or... whatever it's called that the parity will stay till Tac ops get's released.
So they already said linux/mac won't get update together with windows
spring kite
Just bought apex, marksman, heli and other DLCs, thanks volvo and BI for sale + update for linux users! Finally KOTH with another users online!
Is there info if in future there will be updates as this one to play with win users again?
molten pulsar
for Arma 4 it's somewhat confirmed ๐
hasty pelican
is that so?
molten pulsar
Operating System or Open Source? ๐
left fog
Livedistro for military tactical sandbox game(s)
molten pulsar
lol
@hasty pelican kinda, they said somewhere in an interview that the Enfusion engine will be multiplatform
hasty pelican
oh cool, I must've missed that
left fog
it comes with custom ArmaUEFI and ArmaME/ArmaPSP so you don't need to worry about anything non-Arma inbetween it and your hardware ๐
hasty pelican
๐
molten pulsar
left fog
jokes aside , we will try keep the gap between Windows and Linux/Mac ports as short as possible but no definitive promises
hasty pelican
that's great :)
spring kite
@left fog is it possible to ride in Czech rep. go to your office buy DLC for cash and make few photos there? ๐
left fog
only if you pay with gold / platinum bars or EU approved diamonds {payment processing works with base math so minimal value is 1 piece}
dusk ermine
There is no way to filter servers with only 1ยบperson view allowed?
its hard to find a server without the 3ยบ person view, cant understand why people play pvp in that servers...
arctic oyster
Please, it's a joke ArmaOS ? ๐
covert quiver
Akchually is GNU/ArmaOS ๐
hasty pelican
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What youโre referring to as ArmaOS, is in fact, BI/ArmaOS, or as Iโve recently taken to calling it, BI plus ArmaOS. ArmaOS is not a military simulation unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning BI system made useful by Mikeros PBO Tools, the Arma 3 Tools and modders utilizing these components, comprising a full military simulation as defined by the community. ๐
dusk ermine
@molten pulsar dificulty filter isnt the best option cause custom settings and the others will be filtered off, the official launcher has a view type filter that works better than the ingame one.
thin slate
hey guys! I'm trying to enable ACE + CBA_A3 on my Arma 3 Ubuntu install. But when I write -mod=@CBA_A3;@ace; it just loads the first mod. Anyone know what's going on?
covert quiver
i just use -mod=@CBA_A3 -mod=@elfin phoenix
thin slate
I'll give it a shot ^^
covert quiver
god damnit discord i dont want do mark anyone
thin slate
well that didn't work unfortunately :/
arctic oyster
; in unix shell is for create multiple command on one line
thin slate
I forgot to say this, but it worked guys, tnx! :D
I'm having a different issue now though. I got the mods to work, but there is no text in the ACE interact/self-interact menu :S So I don't know what each available action does. So that's an issue... anyone know what might be the problem?
And if I accidently alt-tab out of the game for some reason, I can no longer interact with the in-game menus :/
dusk ermine
a friend had that problem too i will ask cause he manged to solve it i think
dusk ermine
he is in debian, had the same error, but he is saying that he dont remember if he solves it he thinks no, sorry
thin slate
aaw ok :/ thanks for asking!
arctic oyster
@Bloodaxe#4692 It's X screen selector bug, you can use --eon_force_display=X where X is a monitor number starting from 0 by @smoky crater (Fuck the reference message id on discord ๐ก)
If a somebody she know how create jumper for message via id message. I take it ๐ ๐ ๐ .
thin slate
@arctic oyster do I have to type that into a terminal everytime or something? ๐ค
scenic sleet
no, it can be added to the startup options in steam
Right click on the game in the library, Properties, Set Launch Options
thin slate
oh ok, I'll give it a shot when I've got time ๐ tnx for the help everyone!
arctic oyster
I remember if you change forcedAdapterId, - 1 to 0 in .local/share/bohemiainteractive/arma3/GameDocuments/Arma 3/Arma3.cfg. He fix the problem permanently and the startup argument isn't necessary.
thin slate
this worked flawlessly @arctic oyster , thank you! Why is this not the default config?
smoky crater
@thin slate it's not the default config because that would force the game to only recognise the first monitor.
thin slate
Fair enough ๐
smoky crater
multimonitor is always hit and miss on linux
hasty pelican
and TacOps is out :D
hasty pelican
@left fog is the 8.6GB update for linux only the decrypted Tanoa PBOs?
dusk ermine
any bets for the next merge day?
short tulip
I wouldn't dare. But I hope we can have it before the 21st, which is when I'm hitting the road to visit family.
...Wait a minute. I ran that update, and it put me back at 1.70.
hasty pelican
srsly?
short tulip
I'm going to try the Development Build.
hidden grail
@left fog hey Dwarden, we got an downgrade to 1.70, I just would like to ask if it was intentional or just a mistake
dusk ermine
@short tulip im on 1.70 too whats happening=? xD
left fog
are you using the legacyports branch ? @hidden grail @dusk ermine because that could be the case
dusk ermine
i have the standar of steam
short tulip
I was opted out of any beta. BTW, switching to the development build actually got me back to 1.76
hidden grail
@left fog I tried the main branch and also the legacy, both are 1.70
left fog
what steam client version, what OS platform ?
dusk ermine
linux
dusk ermine
mint 18.3 too
dusk ermine
same steam version
hidden grail
but I think Mac has the same issue, as one guy I know got the same update in the qeueu
left fog
ok, so - thanks for the reports, we will be working on resolving the problem, quickly as possible
short tulip
Thanks.
left fog
should be fixed now
hidden grail
I got some 11GB update
but the SSD is too slow ...
@left fog thx, according to a friend its fixed now
yes, works also for me
short tulip
Okay. I switched from Development Build to main and didn't get an update.
I guess there's no need for it.
left fog
development branch is something else ...
short tulip
Well, I'm validating then.
short tulip
Okay. I should've mentioned this earlier, but the validation was clear. The development branch was 1.76. When I went back to main after you said that you fixed it, there was no change.
pure vault
sorry guys no linux build for 1.78 yet right?
hasty pelican
not yet no
pure vault
tnx
fleet bay
So linux server was updated and now it wont initialize on my system at all. Just straight crashes after this update
It gets all the way to the point where it says
1:33:48 MovesType CfgMovesMaleSdr load time 9233 ms
Global namespace not passed during: false
1:33:48 Error in expression <false>
1:33:48 Error position: <false>
1:33:48 Error Local variable in global space
Global namespace not passed during: false
1:33:48 Error in expression <false>
1:33:48 Error position: <false>
1:33:48 Error Local variable in global space
In a non modded environment it crashes after this:
1:51:09 Loading movesType CfgGesturesMale
1:51:09 MovesType CfgGesturesMale load time 110 ms
1:51:09 Loading movesType CfgMovesMaleSdr
1:51:16 MovesType CfgMovesMaleSdr load time 6442 ms
#server_linux would be a better place to post that
fleet bay
Thank you.
spring kite
I want multiplayer pew-pew, are there news when lin/mac branches will be synced with win branch again?
arctic oyster
No
scenic sleet
it shouldn't be too long I hope, thought probably still in the order of a few weeks rather than days
arctic oyster
He prepare 1.76 branch, probably synced with win branch again.
molten pulsar
anyone know if BI has plans to bring DayZ to Linux/Mac?
Especially since BI said that the Enfusion engine will be multiplatform (assuming that includes Linux/Mac)
smoky crater
doesnt necessarily mean Linux/Mac, as consoles are a platform
spring kite
@molten pulsar current online http://storage2.static.itmages.com/i/17/1203/h_1512322626_1101097_940a5244e5.png
short tulip
Does PUBG run on Enfusion?
molten pulsar
no
short tulip
Oh well.
molten pulsar
PUBG is Unreal Engine 4
dry venture
Pubg omegalul
Dayz confirmed on consoles, no words on unix systems, but i hope so, at least as a port with modding tools; also there is dayz discord server
smoky crater
if you want dayz for Mac/Linux, buy Arma3 ๐ thats not official endorsement though ๐
molten pulsar
๐ ๐
scenic sleet
It's a shame that the 'experimental' label on the ports, and the fact that it doesn't list Linux (and Mac) support for the game in the various stores, means uptake is far lower than it might otherwise be.
dry venture
It's just when it's done and it's working there will be a label
obtuse grail
Was fun while it last boys
smoky crater
1.78 is being worked on, be patient ๐
dusk ermine
"Real Soon Now (TM)" ?
smoky crater
yep lol
short tulip
Soldiers are preparing. Please wait warmly.
gritty sage
https://twitter.com/Kuningaskunta/status/936467632705941504 That tweet.. Feels.. Quite accurate.
molten pulsar
lol ๐
gritty sage
Well... Linux 1.78 coming out in a couple days. But hah! Were on 1.80 now :U Poor linuxers
hidden grail
lol, great picture, have to save it ๐
smoky crater
nope, we found out about 1.80 so we'll be doing that instead
obtuse grail
Damn, 1.80 already? lOl
sly rover
They tend to bump the version for critical hotfixes.
scenic sleet
it won't be the only hotfix either
given reports that there are major mods broken by a problem in enum handling
gritty sage
Not really broken. just warning messages that for some reason show up as errors. Some things still work despite the error being thrown and indicating that it didn't work
sly rover
And some mods not working is not very critical.
Unlike security fixes or custom ports.
scenic sleet
@gritty sage That's not what @nova wave was saying
I agree it's what the changelog says about the feature, but he is saying that at least for one specific function it's actually breaking the script
setUnitTrait - Since 1.78 hasn't come to linux yet I can't verify
arctic oyster
You don't have FPS problem after the update ?
hasty pelican
stares at steamdb waiting for ports_180 branch to appear
hidden grail
๐
hasty pelican
PORT_180 BRANCH APPEARED!!!
molten pulsar
๐
hidden grail
๐
spring kite
hell yeah, i will drink czech beer today
gritty sage
Maybe slightly relevant. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Wine-3.0-Feature-Recap Wine 3.0 incoming
spring kite
Have someone tried Arma3 on wine with open-source AMD driver? I don' t think wine will work for Arma..
hasty pelican
why would you run ArmA3 in Wine? we have a port...
also afaik ArmA3 uses dx11 and Wines dx11 support is... meh
molten pulsar
I tried it a probably half a year ago and it was complaining about some stencil (?) format
never actually started the game ๐ฆ
gritty sage
Check the link above about wine and directx11
molten pulsar
yeah there are no Fedora packages yet and I can't be bothered to put in effort ๐
obtuse grail
Password for port_180 branch?
hasty pelican
nobody knows
hasty pelican
ofc not
hasty pelican
nope, that never happened so far and they won't start with it now
just wait a week more, I'm sure they got this done very soon
obtuse grail
Ok thanks
sly rover
I must say, the campaign from Laws of War is among my most memorable FPS experiences ever.
hasty pelican
๐
rain flint
what, no, that can be
its great if it was, hard to imagine anything being great these days
gaming on linux wether sp or mp is.. peculiar
scenic sleet
I've not finished LoW yet, drawing out the experience, but as a piece of story telling it's great
short tulip
I got stuck at a certain spot.
sly rover
The story telling and attention to detail are impressive.
obtuse grail
Hehe
ruby lagoon
Does anyone know how to setup a mission file for arma server
gritty sage
Very unlikely that anyone of the over 2000 people including actual Arma developers knows that.
scenic sleet
@ruby lagoon you want #server_linux
this channel is for the game itself on linux and mac, not the linux server
molten pulsar
ouch
arctic oyster
WTF, Ubuntu = Windows but very bad lol.
hasty pelican
#ArchLinuxFTW
If it fucks up at least it's your own fault ๐
covert quiver
unfortunately i fuck up very often with nvidia & wayland :/
brisk vessel
Hey, is anyone here on Linux and Ryzen? Has anyone on any chip been having huge input lag on Linux?
molten pulsar
Intel CPU + AMD GPU = no input lag for me
brisk vessel
@molten pulsar , thanks for the input!
You're on the current version, right? Is the Linux port at parity with Windows right now? Same version?
brisk vessel
Drats! Do we know when they will be back at parity? I am trying to get a multi OS group running.
sly rover
Windows users can always downgrade.
But we don't know when we will get the update.
Perhaps soonโข
tight yarrow
@sly rover Only to the most immediate legacy version
sly rover
No, you can always go to the version that the ports are on.
The beta password Arma3LegacyPorts , if I remember correctly, unlocks it.
tight yarrow
@sly rover Only to the most immediate ports, for instance ArmaLegacyPorts178 is available but not ArmaLegacyPorts050
Etc etc
sly rover
...I literally just told you that it is not the case.
@tight yarrow From the Experimental Ports page https://dev.arma3.com/ports:
"We offer special legacyports branches on Steam for Windows to downgrade to the compatible version (access code: Arma3LegacyPorts for Arma 3 and Arma 3 Server)."
You can ALWAYS go back to the ports version on Windows.
I was not saying that you can go back to any arbitrary version, I know that is not possible, but the version that the ports are on is always available through that beta. I even mentioned the exact password needed.
And the example passwords you provided are incorrect. The password for regular legacy branches is always something like Arma3Legacy178
vapid cedar
i find this offensive... lumping mac in the same channel as linux.... 
4 life
brisk vessel
@HER0#0927, thatโs good information!
Anyone @here using a Ryzen CPU to run Arma on Linux? Are you having any input lag at present?
hidden grail
Grundy lol
vapid cedar
its true
hasty pelican
Mac isn't even that bad (as far as i can tell with my limited experience with it) ; I'd just never get one because apple
I did have a hackintosh but why the trouble when i can use Linux? ๐
scenic sleet
ugh, it's AWFUL, I hate it
I have a Mac for testing stuff for work, I absolutely hate it
same for iPhone, I want to throw it against a wall every time I try to use one. I cannot work out why they are so damn popular
UX is hideously bad
hasty pelican
Well i guess it's like windows, the more you use it, the more you hate it
scenic sleet
one plus point for the Mac Air is that it has insanely fast resume from sleep, something I'd love to get from linux laptop
hasty pelican
My pc doesn't like sleep at all... if it goes into sleep mode i have to restart it, because after waking it it just stays black ๐ข
(Arch, KDE, AMD OpenSource driver)
hidden grail
๐
when i put my pc to sleep, multiplayer games in steam cannot connect to the network
scenic sleet
๐
short tulip
I accidentally put my PC into sleep mode when it was at my relatives' house over Christmas vacation. I'm not sure if it had any ill effects. But I do remember having to restart it in order to get good wireless performance from the Steam Link. Not sure if that's related or not.
covert quiver
using sleep mode on my old laptop with ubuntu strech on it and it works fine
molten pulsar
desktops and sleeping/hibernating never worked properly for me ๐
never had any issues with it on laptops though
covert quiver
using arch on my desktop and hibernating works fine, even with WakeonLan on ๐
archlinux=most stable distro ๐
scenic sleet
it's usually more about which drivers and applications are being used, some of them don't work well with Sleep
covert quiver
yea we have a community (ArmaOnUnix) but not many players on the servers since a few weeks
brisk vessel
@vapid cedar, do you have any input lag on your Ryzen CPU running Arma 3 on Linux in the current version?
hidden grail
hi @eternal oriole we have a litlle community here https://discord.gg/p28Ra36
there is also a steam group
we mostly play on emp's Mission server
if you want to play its pretty good idea to tell it on discord, as some people might join
mostly there isnt many players on the server if any
hasty pelican
Happy New Year @here
rain flint
happy!
eternal oriole
cheers guys
brave rover
Hello fellow mac/linux users
@hidden grail , I decided to join this server after all..
I thought it might be a better place to get answers from the horses mouth, so to speak.
do the <@&105622502444711936> or @left fog have any clue as to when 1.80 should be released for us? Because it's been fermenting for almost 30 days in the steam depots now ... It might have gone bad by now ๐ฆ
scenic sleet
Christmas will have slowed things down, especially since BI took a 2 week holiday
I wouldn't expect answers or any sign of movement until next week at the earliest, nothing much ever seems to get done the first week of the year, people are just recovering from the holiday and catching up on emails, meetings etc
I'm willing to bet that I'll be out of the country again when we get the next update, it's Murphy's Law
brave rover
Or the update is JUST after the newest windows release.
I liked the parity we had for a few weeks
short tulip
I squandered the parity we had. I played Altis Life for a little bit but that's it.
brave rover
I
have made a about 5 windows ppl I play with downgrade
and everybody hates the 1.76 version
so they are moving back
we crash multiple times during a session
my 8GB vram just keeps getting more and more full
and then poof
or the FPS drops during gameplay and a restart of the game makes it alright again, but it's a PITA
at least the white trees are now gone for me ๐
oh the memleaking happens on both windows and linux and green and red gpu's, so at least it's solid port ๐
wary fjord
Evening all, Just joined as to add to what Ysbloke has being saying, experencing the same issues.
The windows parity was real nice for the short time we had it๐
Luckely a few of the windows player I play with stayed on the 1.76 but they are prety much had enough of the mem leak too.
Any news as to when 1.8x lands, also with the whit tree issue for us messa users
Using Mesa 17.3.1 with a RX64, Amd staging kernel.
hidden grail
@brave rover dont expect much, we get here very little info about the new versions if any
and then we write it to the ArmaOnUnix channel
vital moat
Mhm... Where Arma 3 keeps player's profile and save files... on Ubuntu? Clearly, it doesn't load them from Steam Cloud.
hasty pelican
~/.local/share/bohemiainteractive/arma3/GameDocuments
vital moat
Thanks! Also, I'm simply amazed by the fact that devs ported all DLCs on linux. It was like a few months back there was only Apex.
hidden grail
yes, there was much faster progress in the last 6 months than before
hasty pelican
probably cuz before they were porting to 64bit, now they already had that done :b
vital moat
Sooo.. It also should run better now?!
sly rover
Well the DLCs are included with the update it is introduced in.
Which means we don't have all the DLCs right now.
Tac Ops is missing.
As for performance, it is likely to run better on a faster computer than it did before the 64 bit update, which was a while ago now.
To clarify on the DLC thing, when we had "only Apex," we also had Karts, Heli, and Marksman. Since then, we have gotten Jets and Laws of War.
scenic sleet
it will run much better on a machine with enough ram
previously it wouldn't use all the ram available, so it was having to swap textures in and out of memory, now it doesn't need to do that so much. While you can't expect a big FPS boost, you should notice less stuttering
'enough memory' here, is at least 8GB, if you only have 4GB you probably won't notice a difference
vital moat
Oh. I said "only Apex" because I keep forgetting about DLCs without new maps or missions. :C
scenic sleet
and Arma will use every last bit of ram available, so make sure to shutdown all other applications first, or you'll run out of memory and then it will be OOM killed
admittedly, that depends to some extent on what resolution you're playing in, the higher the res, the more critical free RAM becomes
sly rover
@vital moat They all add playable content of some sort! There are way more time trials and fields of fire with all the DLC.
vital moat
What is 'fields of fire'? A preview thingy in the Showcase section?
sly rover
I think it is actually called Course of Fire.
The firing drill things.
Timed, shoot the targets and run to the next spot. Killhouses and such.
scenic sleet
@left fog Has anyone at BI tried out TrackIR with the Arma linux port? I've rashly just bought it without first double checking, I know it works on linux with some middleware, but given the whole EON wrapper around the game on linux, I'm not sure if it's working (notice I didn't use the word supported!)
arctic oyster
That a tank on Arma 3 : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1261667402
scenic sleet
<@&105622502444711936> ^^ See my question about TrackIR + Arma on linux. With apologies for spamming all of you, it's hard to get an answer on anything Port related, just want to know whether it's known working or not working and I figure this would have come up during the QA process.
left fog
tbh i do not know the actual state of TrackIR vs ports builds, i will try find someone who knows but in this case i bet someone from community already knows better
scenic sleet
@left fog ok thanks. Guess I'll be the guinea pig when my TrackIR arrives, in a round about way I'll suppose I should be able to get at least some aspects of it working, even if it's non-native by setting it up to imitate a joystick etc
sly rover
I wouldn't get my hopes up about it just working.
I'd also assume that most BI people wouldn't know the answer.
scenic sleet
right, just figured that they've got the hardware at the office, they've got the port, and I'd assume that it's part of the QA process to test that support isn't broken with game updates, so I'm sure someone at BI knows the status of support, it's just that Dwarden doesn't ๐
brave rover
I seem to remember somewhere that the stance on controllers in the ports was : xbox360 is enough for everyone
I tried getting my sidewinder to work last week... just a simple joystick......
but I had to configure it in steam big picture to get A3 to even recognize it as being an option
scenic sleet
Yeah, so it seems that TrackIR support is completely missing on linux, which is a great shame. ยฃ170 wasted ๐ฆ
TrackIR itself is working great but Arma just cannot see it, nor joysticks as you mentioned @brave rover
well, I hope they do add support in the future :/
molten pulsar
you could always just return it
assuming your country has some consumer protection laws ^^
scenic sleet
I'd rather just cling to the hope that they do add support
it's supported in other games on linux, so it's not a complete waste, but Arma really is the game which would benefit most from it
the lack of proper joystick etc support in the linux client is odd to say the least, it's one thing that generally works out of the box in other ported games
molten pulsar
well since eON is fairly similar to wine in how it does things and wine having big issues with controllers in general (even my xbox 360 controller doesn't work properly in wine with all the workarounds available), I think it's safe to assume it's a fairly hard problem ๐
brave rover
don't count on much @scenic sleet .
Every time "we" had a discussion with VP personel it ended in namecalling.
No sides was clean in that fight though, to be fair
I've been asking for beta access @left fog for ages now.. without reply too.. Because the windows folks get dev branch access.. and looking at 1.76's release it's obvious to me that QA is a joke.
/end rant
left fog
there is no public accessable beta
brave rover
that's what I said ๐
but for all it's flaws I love the game. I wish I didn't.....
gritty sage
I made a hobby out of fixing the flaws ๐ It's awesome. you will never have free time again
brave rover
I'm already a programmer by day. I don't want to spend the evening doing it again if I can :;)
Also I'm pretty sure you can't fix my 8GB VRAM from filling up while playing ๐
gritty sage
I'm not that far yet ๐ Only got a job about 6 months ago
No. But I can make your 32bit game use 8gb of vram
brave rover
meh
I'd rather have it NOT use all of it , and then trying to use some more ๐
keeps the crashes at bay
wary fjord
It is fun playing "closest to get 8Gb without restart befor crash"๐
molten pulsar
so VRAM usage.. I'm not an expert on it at all BUT I think VRAM doesn't get cleared once you exit a game so it kinda sorta acts as a memory cache and gets cleared on a need to basis
at least that's what I've been seeing
and I just disproved the thing... lol
must've been hallucinating
wary fjord
lol
obtuse grail
Damn, Linux branch still behind? Tanks will be here in no-time for main branch ๐คท๐ฝ
silver urchin
Why VRAM filling is a problem in here? It's not a problem in Windows at least
scenic sleet
because with OpenGL everything that goes into VRAM, also goes into System RAM, which means if you only have 8GB of system ram you'll start going into swap or worse
8GB seems to be the absolute minimum for 1080, for higher resolutions 16GB is necessary and for 4K, 24-32GB
brave rover
I remember the windows guys @wary fjord & I play with saw similar behaviour on windows. but yeah, opengl on linux is a bit..... wonky when talking about memory.. might be the same with opengl on other platforms, but IDK.
scenic sleet
from what I heard, it's an OpenGL thing, not a linux thing
which honestly seems like a huge drawback of OpenGL, you have to wonder why they'd design it that way. Hopefully future iterations will eliminate that requirement
wary fjord
Thought the windows client used DX
scenic sleet
it does
wary fjord
The vram leak happens on win too is what @brave rover was getting at
brave rover
@scenic sleet opengl was thought up one drunken evening at SGI ๐
Maybe even drunken monkeys
scenic sleet
OpenGL pre-1 was, but they've had a couple of decades and three more major spec changes to get it right
brave rover
I guess those meetings might have been a little too alcoholic too
But now we have vulkan
and at least Feral and Croteam seem to like it ๐
Also I think lumberyard from amazon should get vulkan support or might have it already?
not sure about UE4, but unity3d has it too
molten pulsar
I wonder if DirectX does the same thing with RAM but Windows hides it ๐ค
they both have to keep track of the textures somehow
gritty sage
They probably just ask the GPU "Hey do you have that texture?"
scenic quarry
I hope that this game will finally get released in Steam for the Linux version
sly rover
You know that you can already play the Linux port on Steam, right?
scenic quarry
yes, but if I buy it now it will not count as a Linux sale but as a Windows one...
scenic sleet
yeah, that's putting off a lot of people from buying the game
molten pulsar
as if BI is not able to track Linux installs ๐
scenic sleet
it's not only BI though, Steam use the statistics on linux game sales to both justify their continued support of SteamOS and to demonstrate to more games developers that there is a demand
while the sales figures for one game won't contribute much to the totals, it's still a point of principle for a lot of linux games to make sure they are counted.
another thing putting people off Arma is that 'experimental', 'no guarantees of continued support' stuff attached to this port. Most people are not going to pay what Arma 3 costs and run the risk that they cancel the experiment and drop support
the last big reason why people don't buy it is the lack of parity with Windows, being limited to playing on a tiny fraction of servers with a smaller community is a big tick in the negatives column
sly rover
That is complete speculation.
Almost FUD. As far as I think we know, all developers can always see the platform that a game was bought on. Depending on publishing deals with porting companies, it may be split depending on some extra rules, but having a Linux icon in the store page was never one of them.
A major porting company wouldn't go so far as to publish Linux depots without having that figured out already.
There are plenty of reasons not to buy it now, but it not counting as a Linux purchase is a terrible and seemingly misinformed one.
If you want to be certain that VP gets something for it, assuming they have a revenue share deal, buy it on Linux and play it on Linux. It should all be fine.
brave rover
from what I understand that has never been their businessmodel. but since A3 is a rolling release kinda thing it might be a little different
scenic sleet
yeah, from what we've heard from VP insiders, they don't operate on the revenue sharing basis, they are purely contractors working on a flat fee
they aren't publishers like Feral or Aspyr who acquire the rights to publish the game and get a cut of the sales
in other words, VP get paid no matter what, even if there are zero sales, but Feral et al would not, they would lose money
@sly rover As for Steam using the sales figures, well that's not entirely speculation, we know they have approached a number of publishers and developers about getting AAA content onto SteamOS and for that they would need some facts and figures to back it up.
sly rover
I'm not sure what I said that you are disputing.
If they don't do revenue sharing, then great, you should be able to buy it on Steam and still have it count as a Linux purchase.
My point is that it doesn't need to reach some nebulous "official" state in order to count. The Linux icon being present on the store page does not determine if it tracks sales on different platforms, it does that regardless.
scenic sleet
@sly rover I don't think anyone is disputing what you're saying, or has said different here. However we're not talking about what actually happens, but what the vast majority of people think happens
and they won't buy the game if it doesn't list linux/steam OS as a supported platform in Steam for the 'tracking' reason
in fact, reading back, I don't think anyone associated the SteamOS icon with tracking at all. dtanderson wanted to know that his purchase would be counted as a linux purchase, Marcel made a comment about BI knowing that, I replied that sure BI might know but it's not only important that BI have that info etc
If there's any issue with linux not being listed as a supported platform in Steam, it's that people only come to learn they CAN play the game on linux if they happen to read one of the couple of linux gaming community sites or by word of mouth. If you just happen to come across the game on Steam, say because it's permanently in the top sellers list, you assume it's Windows only by looking at the store page.
sly rover
See, that is an entirely different issue.
I think it is fine that people don't know about it if they haven't looked into it. It doesn't provide a complete experience that someone might expect if they go into it without knowing the limitations.
It is an issue that people think that buying it now, despite knowing the limitations, will not count as a Linux sale.
It is true that nobody mentioned the icon specifically, but it doesn't really matter. People not buying it only because they think it won't count for Linux are misinformed.
It being "official" or not does not change if they track Linux purchases.
hasty pelican
Hey, Ports180 was updated 15 minutes ago ๐
brave rover
but still encrypted too
hasty pelican
yes, but things are happening
gritty sage
Sure.. But why do you need them decrypted?
brave rover
to install them ๐
brave rover
the branch is locked behin a password currently. it's not transfered over to "current" yet
scenic sleet
not the PBO, the branch itself
brave rover
it... was ... a .... joke....
gritty sage
ahhh
brave rover
but yeah it's nice that at least something happened
scenic sleet
as usual, it will probably be released the moment I start travelling for work ๐ฆ
molten pulsar
and when is that? Would be nice to know the schedule ๐
hidden grail
๐
tight yarrow
So I have now joined you linux peoplez
short tulip
Welcome to the fold.
tight yarrow
Lol, thanks. Definitely a little different from windows that's for sure. Installing things through a terminal? Definitely not anything I've done before. But I am willing to get used to it so I don't have to deal with pesky windows anymore
wary fjord
They'll release it just as the windows version updates ๐
@tight yarrow rare to need a terminal to install stuff tbh, most use it as quickerfor the experienced
tight yarrow
@wary fjord Makes snese, I see there is the software center. For some reason or another, I'm having problems with it though.
wary fjord
Ubuntu ?
tight yarrow
I go to install "steam launcher", but as soon as I go to launch nothing pops up, system monitor says it's active. Yes Ubuntu 17.1 i believe
wary fjord
not used it much as don't get on with it personally
Antergos myself, There are loads on here that use Ubuntu so plenty will be able to help
tight yarrow
Awesome
wary fjord
although am talking in arma channel and not LGG or GOL ๐
tight yarrow
Lol
wary fjord
@tight yarrow You in them channels ?
tight yarrow
Nope
tight yarrow
Ooooh, thanks!
tight yarrow
Sweet
tight yarrow
Anyone know where things like saved editor files are located at on a regular ubuntu installation? Nothing in the root directory
clicking "Open Scenario Folder" doesn't so anything :/
molten pulsar
~/.local/share/bohemiainteractive/arma3/GameDocuments/Arma\ 3
tight yarrow
Excellent, thank you @molten pulsar
left fog
@wary fjord can you post permanent invites to those 2 servers?
heady ginkgo
any one who plays on mac?
heady ginkgo
i need to partion my mac so i can play the windoes version
wary fjord
@heady ginkgo Is it not native on mac ?
sly rover
It does have a macOS port, they can totally play it there.
heady ginkgo
its through steam but i accesed steam on my friends pc and there are things you cant access on pc if you are on mac. like mods and servers
eternal oriole
mac and linux can both play together
brave rover
and another week slips by and still no 1.80 for mac/linux ๐ฆ
brave rover
@left fog, any ETA on 1.80 max/linux being released?
left fog
no eta for now
molten pulsar
I'd imagine they'd get the final DLC out and get the port working with that and after that it's mostly maintenance ๐
assuming the new roadmap doesn't include anything radical
if there will be a new roadmap ^^
short tulip
Is the Tanks DLC going to be the final DLC?
short tulip
I wish there could just be a finale DLC that just incorporates stuff from every single DLC in the game. A campaign that spans from Tanoa to Malden, where you do do everything from flying planes to riding tanks to sweeping mines to sniping to racing go-karts, EVERYTHING
sly rover
Tanks is the last official DLC.
But there may be more community supported ones. They were looking into it.
@short tulip Tac Ops is closer to that.
It gives access to stuff from other DLCs, even if you don't own them, and has a focus on gameplay instead of themed content.
tight yarrow
these community dlcs aren't all that bad in my opinion. They may not sell as much, but it's an interesting approach to (what community wants) versus (what devs have planned / can do)
linhx / mac is on 1.78 right? So no tac ops yet?
tight yarrow
oh damn
brave rover
indeed
sly rover
1.78 is when they added Tac-Ops.
They bumped to 1.80 to fix major issues.
So we are really only one update behind still.
valid pine
lol ur hopes are to high
only updates u will get from now on is visual crap
engine updates probably at full stop as new engine is being build which will run on unicorn tears
short tulip
Well, as long as those Unicorn Tears are cross-platform, I'm fine with it.
valid pine
lol fuck no
its all in C++
no more retarded SQF
they better make some kind of tools to convert because community is going to loose shit ton of content
sly rover
I think people will get over losing their content if a new Arma game comes out with Enfusion, and it is as good as everyone hopes.
And we also can't say yet if it will or won't be cross platform...
hasty pelican
well I remember it being said that Enfusion would be cross platform (but as BI are also making / planning console games who knows if crossplatform includes linux)
tight yarrow
enforce was cross platform, enfusion is RV4 + Enforce. so Bi has the tools to do so
brave rover
I seriously hope they will go crossplatform from the getgo
because as nice as it is that VP is porting it
their "community manager" (or at least that was his title at some point) is just a salty guy that likes to trash the linux community as a whole.
I used to get along with him in the past though.
left fog
strange considering it's the linux community what keeps theirs bussines alive
brave rover
Yeah well tell that to him
arctic oyster
what is the problem with VP ?
brave rover
VP as a whole? Nothing much
Glad they do ports
with a few exceptions their choices are somewhat bland though
arctic oyster
bland though ? For example what ?
covert quiver
like using OpenGL?
scenic sleet
VP don't chose the games they port, that's not their business model unlike Feral and Aspyr
They are just a "for hire" team who offer their services to publishers
Unless a publisher approaches VP to do a port, it won't happen
They also don't get a cut of game sales, but charge the publisher for the work of porting. Very different to Feral but they don't assume any risk
arctic oyster
VP is coming to BI, not reverse ?
brave rover
@scenic sleet you could be right about the choosing part.
but yeah I mean the titles
sly rover
They have a lot of high profile ports though. No game appeals to everyone, but you cannot deny the popularity of many of their ported games.
Arma 3, BioShock Infinite, The Witcher 2, and the Saints Row series are or were VERY popular.
brave rover
sorry my fault. I mean lately
micromachines and that amiga game
because with the exception of A3 it's almost ancient history ๐
quasi orchid
what is the current status of arma 3 linux compared to the windows version? is there any life on this front at all update/DLC wise or are we stuck with the version that we have had since last year?
short tulip
We're stuck with the same version we got near the end of last year. Laws of War is the latest DLC for our version, not Tac-Ops.
quasi orchid
laws of war is 1.76 right?
short tulip
Yup
quasi orchid
when i played earlier last year there was really only one linux server active with spotty population, has that changed or has th community grown a bit more stable?
well 2 servers, but only one was ever populated really...
thanks for the answer though.
molten pulsar
Linux and Mac are just too small platforms to have any kind of meaningful platform dependent multiplayer experience
at least on the public server side of things
quasi orchid
the platforms are big enough i found, its just the overall support for it(games in general) is too small making players go through other means of getting good multiplayer, like dual booting or having a seperate system with windows just to have the full experience...
or people to play with, its a self destructing loop really
short tulip
And that makes it harder for people who adamantly refuse to pretend to be using Windows, like me.
quasi orchid
i adamantly refuse to use windows since about 2 or 3 years now, but damn that hits you hard on the multiplayer side of things...
short tulip
Well, I'm also more of a variety gamer, though. I think the last time I actually tried to get into ARMA 3 multiplayer was during the month of version parity.
...near the beginning of it.
short tulip
Yeah.
quasi orchid
used to play lots of multiplayer games, not so much these days bar war thunder for most games dont have the support... i thought about a dual boot setup but i have seen that go wrong one time too often :/
i really do hope that @molten pulsar
short tulip
Around the time I switched to Linux, I was playing Wakfu. I might try going back to that.
quasi orchid
i also really hope arma 4 will have support for all platforms from the getgo, not as an afterthought that requires double the work, makes everyone happy and its not that much extra labour especially with the newer engines that generally support it already these days...
biggest issue right now is all the windows specific coding and libraries to get it working on other platforms, or so i have been told
one of the reasons rotorlib isnt in for linux users
btw, when will the tanks DLC hit, Q2 or Q3?
sly rover
rotorlib itself is crossplatform
quasi orchid
yeah but the way its used in arma 3 makes it unsuitable cross platform
not sure what the exact reason was anymore though...
been a while...
sly rover
Probably because we have never been told the exact reason.
quasi orchid
might be it XD
sly rover
But it is plausible that the reason is that it is a lower priority than other things in the port.
molten pulsar
[5:27 PM] ะัดะะฏะฆS Lะฆะ: btw, when will the tanks DLC hit, Q2 or Q3?
Q1
quasi orchid
the port itself is quite lowpriority as far as know
Q1? nice, so end of march or a bit before... sounds hopefull
thank you ๐
hasty pelican
jo guys, I guess 1.80 is out for us, 36Gb Update! ๐ฎ
dusk ermine
im downloading only 4,8GB
dusk ermine
dont know, i cheked after download and im still in 1.76.00000
dusk ermine
.are u on linux or mac?
hasty pelican
Linux
dusk ermine
me too
wise canyon
๐ฎ
left fog
you probably selected wrong branch
hasty pelican
don't care about why my update is bigger, but why are people getting updates without verison change?
left fog
ask Valve 
short tulip
So dos that mean that people who don't own Tac Ops don't get the 4.8GB update?
hasty pelican
idk actually ; apparently it also downloaded Windows DLLs and the Launcher.exe
guess someone hit the wrong button
check the ArmAOnUnix Discord
covert quiver
@short tulip i also dont have tac-ops and got 4.8 gb update
short tulip
Ah, okay.
sly rover
Looks like they just fixed it.
I'm also fairly certain that it was BI's fault, at least directly.
But we can indirectly blame Valve, because their UX must not be great. Devs mess up the depots all the time.
short tulip
covert quiver
what is so hard porting tacops dlc? it isnt even an platform update
short tulip
Well, testing it to make sure that it works as good on Mac as it possibly can be.
molten pulsar
no update or anything here... pssshh
hasty pelican
yeah mine disappeared again
brave rover
so BI fucked up again ....
this is like the 3rd or 4th time they got our hopes up
or stuff started to downgrade for no reason
lovely folks
I always get salty when this happens....
though when they actually update our branch I always buy the DLC as a "thank you"
wary fjord
โน
molten pulsar
well Dwarden did say they probably are on the wrong branch
gritty sage
๐คฆ
brave rover
it's one of those days ๐
left fog
no the wrong download of 1.76.0 is something related to using wrong branch on wrong platform ๐
but i guess that wasn't the case this time, seems more like some typical steamclient / mirrors fluke
molten pulsar
no I meant they as in the people reporting they were getting an update ๐
brave rover
oh you can see the reason on steamdb btw
they flipped the OS switch on some content depot
sly rover
So the wiki states that the "mod" parameter can take a full path, but it doesn't seem to work for me.
Can anyone else confirm this? Is that a bug in the Linux (and macOS) port?
brave rover
@hero I've send a bugreport for that at some point
BI can't be arsed to fix it
they should just change the page mentioning that it should work
obtuse grail
Rip, the push towards Tanks is almost here on main branch too. Guess I'll switch back to main now
sly rover
Is it a bug on Windows too?
sly rover
File patching does not need to be enabled to load normal mods.
molten pulsar
- file patching doesn't work with the port anyway ๐
arctic oyster
It's possible to work on sound issues if you change sound device or unplug/plug new jack device ?
This bug exist at very long time
dry venture
Didn't check for some time, is it in sync with w-version? Koth-Rhs mods compatible ?
gritty sage
It's on version 1.76 afaik. So yes and no.
Not in sync with windows version. Not KoTH compatible (unless there are linux servers). Yes RHS compatible.
dry venture
Ok thx
Koth-rhs is new koth server with rhs mod
Planing to launch on v10 update afaik
rain flint
im quitting on bohemia interactive
they shouldnt have take on experimental ports to begin with
id be happier if they released a statement that theyre quitting on experimental ports, because they cant live up to the communities wishes anyway
plush reef
Hi just got the game
looking for playing with other people @here ๐
They are quitting the experimental ports? Nooo
Don't tell me that I just got the game ๐ฆ I'm so happy I can play it on Linux
scenic sleet
No, they are not ending the ports
plush reef
is that normal at this time
dry venture
@sweeper#7366 I would say they should finish with minimum spendings and use this experience in future projects like dayz; and living to the community wishes never is the goal or you just then messing around
hidden grail
@plush reef there is not much activity (max 5 players) during the work week on the servers, but during weeken at around 16-20 CET (european time) there are players
plush reef
I'm almost returning the game in fear I will never play online or mods ๐ฆ
But I really like it too hah
gritty sage
Why mods? There are only a handful of mods that don't work on linux (yet)
plush reef
My friend was telling me about a mod but I could not even install I think because it would need the recent version
(exile mod? rp mod?) he told me those
gritty sage
After tanks DLC Arma will likely get less frequent updates. Meaning more time for the linux port guys to catch up. Meaning they will catch up and you'll be able to play together with windows guys then.
Will still take a month or two
plush reef
hmm
But then on ports page they say there is some things that would never be resolved like the heli stuff, so they might never release it fully and only be experimental? ๐ฆ
gritty sage
Yeah you might not get the advanced flight model
But honestly. Few people use that anyway. And it's not a must have
plush reef
yeah im ok with that I just want to play online with people, or at least more than 20 on a server
gritty sage
It'll get better after tanks DLC. If you can wait that long do it. You can ofcause refund it. Wait and then buy it again ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ