and yes, i do know development for linux/mac build came much much later then the windows version of the game
#linux_mac_branch
quasi orchid
dry venture
i wouldn't hapiness=sales, more likely time played=happiness
quasi orchid
sales, time played ingame and a lot of other factors determine happines, time played alone says nothing
i have played about 2k hours in war thunder for example, but im just as happy with another game i maybe put 5 hours in.
the fact that i bought it and didnt refund it, says more.
and that i bought dlcs, ingame content... skins, you name it
money is the root of all evil when it comes to development, no money = no incentive to develop, regardless of other aspects. (there has to be some demand for it to be made in the first place though, but if it already exists, then money = continued development etc)
unless you are a indie developer that loves working on that particular game, think dwarf fortress for example
no money incentive there, just a happy dude building on his dreams...
covert quiver
@quasi orchid i meant the carrier
quasi orchid
ah... sorry my bad, i didnt understand that from your post XD, well they did get trains working and the traintracks as well in a mod, so... maybe?
covert quiver
maybe ๐
quasi orchid
to early to tell... no doubt someone is going to try it though ๐
just as that someone is going to make a helicarrier version from it in due time ๐
covert quiver
a bit of dreaming is not forbidden ๐ข
quasi orchid
indeed
sly rover
As for the extensions talk earlier, I've never gotten one to work on Linux, when trying to make basic Hello World things.
Which made me stop looking into porting tfar
molten pulsar
where are we supposed to report issues for the ports?
don't think there's anything ports specific on the feedback tracker, is there?
molten pulsar
ah ๐
quasi orchid
there are no new infos on the next update aren't there?
molten pulsar
nope ๐ฆ
hidden grail
@left fog will the new Jet dlc work also with our 1.64 version ?
left fog
no
hidden grail
and if we will get a new version of arma ? will it support it ?
on the web page it says, that it supports linux/mac port, but I am not sure if it wasnt just copy pasted
gritty sage
If it says so then it probably is correct... You got every other DLC on Linux so far.. Why wouldn't you get Jet's DLC?
hidden grail
just want to make sure
not everything works on linux, for exmaple advanced rotor lib does not
short tulip
I think I'm generally going to wait until the patch which supports an upcoming DLC comes to the Experimental Ports branch before I buy it. But I'm going to have to abstain from buying anything on games from this upcoming November to around October/November of the following year. I will probably buy DLC early in preparation. Maybe that policy can wait until afterwards, assuming there's any reason for it by that time.
scenic sleet
@hidden grail I see no reason Jets DLC won't work on linux, all the engine changes were internal, there's nothing like RotorLib integrated for planes
short tulip
@scenic sleet I think that the DLC only comes as part of the patch, and it can only work as long as it's a high enough version.
hidden grail
ok, we shall see
scenic sleet
@left fog Any idea why we don't have rotorlib support? It's cross-platform ...
@short tulip Yes, I didn't say it would work with 1.64 or 1.68, we'll still have to wait for the 1.70 release on linux but the DLC will work with that version
short tulip
Sorry. Yeah.
hasty pelican
yeah, it'll have problems loading the dlc's p3d files if we don't have the patch, also no dynamic loadouts without the patch will probably break those classes
but here's hoping next Mac/Linux update is gonna be 1.70
Also, I believe RotorLib is not working for the ports because (at least the offical website says so) it works only on Windows and Linux. If it does not on Mac, they would need 2 completely seperate ports for Mac and Linux, which probably isn't the case.
scenic sleet
dynamic loading only on the supported platform would take care of that
hasty pelican
yeah not sure if it is that easy
scenic sleet
should be, there will already be platform checks for runtime differences between mac/linux, albeit most of those will be in the wrapper itself
hasty pelican
yeah well we don't know how ArmA3 implements the feature and we don't know how eOn handles the port. So it might not be possible
just saying if it were that easy, don't you think they would've done it?
scenic sleet
can't know what's going on behind closed doors. For a long time everyone said rotorlib support wasn't there because it was windows only, I'm not even sure what made me check that today because I assumed it was established fact
maybe it was true when they first started working on the ports.
or maybe they simply left out rotorlib support from the contract with VP to keep the costs down
maybe it's just licensing, their current license is for windows only
quasi orchid
Anybody in the mood for some liberation today?
scenic sleet
that would be good, was planning to jump on Emp's liberation server tonight, maybe an hour from now. It's been too long since I had the time to play
quasi orchid
good idea I will be there too
quasi orchid
Mhh maybe I will come later. Need to crack a zip-File
why do I need to use so good passwords if I am constantly forget them
scenic sleet
The fact that Steam Workshop auto-updates mods to an incompatible version is very annoying :/
hidden grail
@quasi orchid use some password manager like KeePassX
quasi orchid
Do it for years. But the zip files were really old
hidden grail
๐
scenic sleet
So joystick discussions in another channel caused me to dig out, and dust off, my old Saitek joystick to try it with Arma ... however Arma can't see it? Anyone know whether the linux/mac ports have joystick support?
They ought to do so right, I mean it's a common API, no drivers to mess about with and something I'm sure that eON would have included support for?
molten pulsar
doesn't seem to detect my xbox 360 controller either
haven't configured anything though
system wise
any way to disable the workshop syncing stuff?
scenic sleet
my steam controller works
but it's like my joystick just doesn't exist. Though it's detected and working in other games
There isn't even a joystick section in the controls menus
Mouse/Keyboard/Controller ... that's it
hasty pelican
@scenic sleet Joystick would be a controller
any way to disable the workshop syncing stuff?
Was just about to ask that as well :/
dry venture
i see only moving the folder to game directory as @mod
molten pulsar
mhm I'd rather just disable the workshop entirely on Linux
but keep it enabled on Windows ^^
sly rover
The controller stuff has always been spotty
molten pulsar
hmm I wouldn't mind a bit more openness about the (experimental) ports to be honest
like what's happening and stuff
it's not like it's top secret stuff or dangers of false promises since it's "experimental"
โบ
scenic sleet
yeah, it would be nice. The stated reason for not being more open is the danger of raising expectations only to dash them. However they are very open about stuff in development for the game in general, including experiments which later get dropped or sidelined.
I would love to think that the linux community is pretty understanding about these things, more so than Windows users, but maybe that's wishful thinking. I have seen some pretty immature and bitter statements from younger members of the community, for example those who refuse to buy Arma 3 and criticise BI because of the 'experimental' label and the fact that the version lags behind the Windows one.
molten pulsar
guess they have no interest in that ๐
hasty pelican
it would be nice if they stopped changing p3d versions every update so we can run mods lol
dry venture
Uhm, do we have any roadmap or statements for 2018?
Not about port, but arma in general
hasty pelican
Well, Tanks DLC releases in Q1 2018. Apart from that, not any that I know of
scenic sleet
the 2017 roadmap was only revealed late in 2016, so it's still pretty early to get any news
We do know that the Apex expansion was called that because it was the apex of Arma 3 development ... since there were 3 paid DLCs before Apex and 4 paid DLCs already announced, I would expect that development will wind down following Tanks DLC with just bug fixes for 6-12 months following that
but if these DLCs sell well ... maybe they'll decide to keep going for a while. Eventually though people are going to want a new, improved engine instead of more content for the existing one
hasty pelican
Well they are working on a new Engine (Engine rewrite?) "Enfusion". so even if there's more in for ArmA3 in 2018, I'm sure we'll see something on ArmA4 in the not so far future ;)
dry venture
Enfusion arma? Wish it was arma 3 update ๐ but yeah, 2019 and later will show us
hasty pelican
Yeah well, sure it would be nice if they just made updates to their platform, but an Engine upgrade is a pretty big deal and will thus most likely result in a new product altogether
short tulip
I just hope that ARMA 4 has Linux support baked in so that we don't have to worry about version desync.
hasty pelican
yeah, that would be super neat
hopefully they'll use Vulkan and not DX12. then we might even see a native version...
brisk vessel
Does anyone have a credible source that Arma 3's Linux version will be on parity with the windows version within the year? I've heard this rumor.
dry venture
i think there will be support of all apis especially when they are close to each other
@brisk vessel of course no, eve devs don't know, i think they have something in mind: the optimistic route (with some patch) and pessimistic one (after all dlcs)
brisk vessel
@dry venture, I'd heard that they were outsourcing the development of Linux version or something like that, that the third party was more or less building an Arma specific emulator for compatibility purposes. Is that even a possibility?
What version is Linux on right now?
short tulip
1.64, I think.
hasty pelican
@brisk vessel yes, the ports are outsourced and not developed by Bohemia.
Virtual Programming does the porting, using their technology "eOn", which is kindof like a wrapper I believe. I mean they have compiled Linux binaries, but eOn fakes DX calls and the windows Registry and some stuff like that.
brisk vessel
VERY neat stuff! Thanks so much!
tight yarrow
What is the performance like versus say windows or mac with linux?
short tulip
Well, according to some benchmarks I saw, the Linux build gets slightly better framerates than the Windows version.
tight yarrow
@short tulip good to know. What about server performance? Good on that end of the spectrum?
short tulip
I've heard about problems with it. But I don't know for sure. I've never been in a very crowded server.
tight yarrow
Interesting. Yes i was reading up on memory issues?
hasty pelican
well in 32bit it apparently limits how much VRAM it can use. that leads to you not being able to use high/ultra textures sometimes.
but in 64bit that should be fixed... hope we get 64bit soon...
performance... can't really say it's better than windows. it's comparable tho. didn't play on any bigger online servers tho. but as performance on windows sucks already in such situations, don't expect it to be better lol
Potential Out Of Memory client crashes/freezes when playing for longer periods of time - the ports are limited to 768 MB of VRAM on Linux and 512 MB on Mac.
Being a 32-bit process, Arma 3 has 4 GB of memory available to it. However, unlike Direct3D, OpenGL stores texture data in the game's address space. Using more VRAM would fill the available memory much more quickly, leading to more frequent crashes.
sauce: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Experimental_Ports#Known_Issues
tight yarrow
@hasty pelican I absolutely love the linux interface and the overall performance of the os. Very stable. So I would love something that is native, not a port. Which kind of throws me off, because essentially we'd be getting the performance of a port from say pc to console. Obviously without the caps and hardware limits. But the issues may outway the benefits.
covert quiver
@molten pulsar maybe we get 1.68 when windows is 1.70
short tulip
@covert quiver Yeah. I think that's what will happen.
hasty pelican
well at least it's 64bit
tight yarrow
Anybody know a good remote acess client for linux?
hasty pelican
ssh? team viewer? ๐
molten pulsar
if you want to connect from Linux to Windows then Remmina is pretty good
last time I used it it worked pretty damn well even over bad connections
tight yarrow
@hasty pelican screw teamviewer, I may consider ssh if possible.
@marceldev89#4565 Windows to Linux not Linux to windows.
covert quiver
@tight yarrow you can also remote control windows with remmina
tight yarrow
@covert quiver Windows to Linux ?
covert quiver
@dense pilot you mean you use windows to control linux?
tight yarrow
Yes.
covert quiver
you can use xrdp , and the remote desktop connection client in windows, also if you just need the terminal you can use SSH (Putty Client on Windows)
tight yarrow
okay, yeah I already have putty
covert quiver
just enter the ip from your linux machine in putty and connect with it.
gritty shard
x2go is quite nice, too - when you need a gui
tight yarrow
That would be a ssh connection yes? @covert quiver
@gritty shard i just want something solid, sounds like putty will do the job.
covert quiver
@tight yarrow yea, Putty is an SSH Client
tight yarrow
Well i was just wondering because i know it can do telenet and ftp connections as well.
sly rover
I second the x2go suggestion for when you need access to x11
tight yarrow
@sly rover benefits?
tight yarrow
Okay, thanks.
hidden grail
another SITREP and still no update ๐ฆ
molten pulsar
we should make a pact to not post here until an update happens! ๐
every time the channel lights up I think there's an update ๐ข
hidden grail
me too ๐
hasty pelican
Let's make a community effort and find out the password for the 168-64-ports branch on steam xD
hidden grail
yeah ! I was thinking about the same thing. Maybe somehow utilizing a password generator and steamcmd ๐
hasty pelican
already tried a few, but I guess it's not in any way similar to the public passwords (like Arma3Legacy, so I tried Arma316864ports etc. but no dice)
hidden grail
๐
so first, we need a botnet
its getting more and more complicated
maybe the easiest/safest way would be to send a box of cookies to BI in exchange for the password ๐ช
short tulip
I don't know. Brute force hacking the 1.68 password would probably be hurting the goodwill that we have with BI in the process. It won't get us to be able to play with the Windows users anymore. That ship has sailed 2 days ago with the 1.70 release. I think that we should be patient for them to get it ready for public consumption.
covert quiver
lmao
hidden grail
also if they dropped Mac support, they would have less work with the port ๐
most mac players I know moved to windows anyway
dry venture
@emp64#8389 ๐
covert quiver
@hidden grail i only know @quasi orchid
quasi orchid
Yeah it seems to! I still run on mac but don't have much time right now to play
hidden grail
Chidorin, dont worry, you can still move to linux ๐
@covert quiver well I meant other people, that were playing arma on mac before you came to the server for the first time
a lot of people that were the first players on my server, were playing on mac, but they moved to windows
short tulip
Even though I also agree that the lack of a Mac port would make the Linux port easier, I would feel like a hypocrite if I asked that one minority OS be dropped while another be kept.
hidden grail
at the end of the day, this all is just talking about something that we cannot change, its all up to BI
quasi orchid
Maybe it is easier to port the next ARMA with a new engine directly to mac and Linux!
covert quiver
p3d bug still in main branch...
hasty pelican
yeah it wasn't updated yet. it's not gonna disappear on it's own
covert quiver
maybe there could be an hotfix, because this bug exists long
hasty pelican
simply use the ArmA3 Legacy Ports branch, it's fixed there
sly rover
The one Mac user I knew that I regularly played Arma with switch to Linux
short tulip
If this is the case, then I think that it is very much worth investigating whether there is continued interest in the Mac port.
The continued interest in the Linux port is self evident from this channel. However, this channel is meant to be dedicated to both OSes, not just Linux. I think I've seen a small amount of interest in the Mac port here, but that was a while ago.
molten pulsar
I'm sure there are plenty of Mac users that just play SP or whatever
can't base it on hearsay
only BI knows ๐
covert quiver
and i think VP is focused more on Mac Ports
scenic sleet
I wonder whether BI have any community members beta testing the ports under an NDA? They have open testing for Windows with the dev branch but nothing that we know about for linux/mac ...
it's all so mysteriously secretive, which I'd understand if the Windows side of development wasn't an open book
short tulip
Well, that might stand to reason. There's a super secret Linux port of 1.68. (which apparently isn't ready for prime time) Someone has the password.
hasty pelican
yeah would be kinda nice to have a dev branch for ports. or at least get some info on it more regularily... for example why it takes them so long to port it to a new update. sure the first initial porting will take a while, but now that it works under the eOn wrapper thingy, why does it take so long to port it to a new update? :/
scenic sleet
well that last one is easy, for starters porting doesn't start until the version in question has been released, and sometimes not even then e.g. 1.70 is out already but since they are still working on 1.68 ...
however the actual porting almost certainly doesn't take the majority of the time, that will be the testing of the port
and it will be done twice, once by a team at VP and once by BI. When testing they not only have to look at the areas of the game which changed between different versions, they have to retest the whole game, replay the campaign, different game modes, online and offline testing etc. It's enormously time consuming
this most recent version has the added complexity of the 64bit conversion
hasty pelican
why would they need to retest the entire game instead of just new features?
they certainly don't on windows. if they did we wouldn't have 3 updates on Windows per 1 update on Linux...
scenic sleet
they do the same testing on Windows and with the added benefit of having a large pool of volunteers from the community running the dev branch to speed up the process
Regression testing the whole product is just how most QA on software is done these days, now BI might not do it for the ports, but VP certainly will because their reputation depends on it
of course this is just speculation, though an ex-VP employee did give some insight a few months back
and I'm applying my own experience in the software world too.
the main thing we've asked for is that BI had over the code to VP earlier, before they've done their own internal testing so that VP can get started earlier. Though since neither party has actually detailed the current process, it's impossible to say whether this would result in faster turnarounds for the ports.
sly rover
The engine is constantly being updated and eON is not just a "drop in and everything is perfect" solution.
Also, any of us here seeing fewer Mac players is entirely anecdotal.
I've actually seen a lot more Mac people in Arma, just not as many that I have played regularly with.
Besides, it would be a bit hypocritical to say that games should be ported to Linux but not anything else.
hasty pelican
yeah I didn't say eOn was, but once it was ported to use eOn, time to update newer versions of the game to eOn should decrease drastically...
tight yarrow
I would hands down play on a linux platform compared to mac proprietary hardware/software . extremely slow for games in all cases.
left fog
that's why e.g. Gaijin moving to Metal for War Thunder, atm. they beta-testing it, even on the slow hardware it has significant effect (fps gain)
tight yarrow
Im not sure i follow?
dry venture
@left fog That's awesome news, cause I couldn't find any new info on metal if it is still been implementing, nor foundry nor adobe had any updates on it, thought it was thrown away by devs
scenic sleet
good news for mac users maybe, but for everyone else it's bad. Devs have yet another API to work against, greater fragmentation - i.e. a conversion to Metal has no benefit for other platforms (linux)
dry venture
Same thing as with dx
tight yarrow
Lets just say its going to be rough either way
Since in essence the people making the ports are just emulating dx
short tulip
Let's keep in mind that Vulkan is going to bring an end to Microsoft's dominance as things currently stand. And I'm guessing that Microsoft is going to be desperate to prevent Vulkan from running on the Windows platform. If it can be argued that MacOS is worth cutting out because Metal fragments the development environment, then this can present an opportunity for Microsoft to hold on to their control. If Vulkan support can be blocked from Windows (all versions) just like it is from MacOS, then Vulkan support can be treated as just as much of a fragmentation of the development environment as Metal. As much as I'd like for this to be as easy on the devs as possible, I am worried about burning bridges.
sly rover
I wouldn't be so confident that "Vulkan is going to bring an end to Microsoft's dominance"
But it certainly helps things.
If only a little.
dry venture
^ same words were about opengl, but seems in reality you have to have bigg support by company like Microsoft and dx, apple and metal, or by many companies like it was with opengl and opencl by apple, amd, linux but it was not enough and nobody didn't want to increase support for other platforms/products ( as i heard about opengl not updated on macs because of critical bugs in newer versions, so i think later they ditched it and started to pay attention only to metal)
short tulip
Well, the excuse is that OpenGL is harder to work with because it had a lot of baggage from older versions of it, and that Vulkan is a clean break from it.
left fog
well the irony is that actually latest opengl is easier to work with than vulkan, at least for starter ...
but on Mac it's different story because it has only obsolete OpenGl (drivers mess) so Metal is clearly best only choice
but Vulkan is expected to improve (new OpenCl and Spir-V, the Khronos comment about OpenCL merge into Vulkan in future (or w/e will be name of new combined api)
if they merge also that openXR (vr) related API into fray it's probably win-win case (not windows)
short tulip
Victory-Victory
sly rover
I am very excited for OpenXR too
scenic sleet
so, any news/rumours on the date of the next port release? Given the delay I'm wondering if they haven't just decided to go straight for 1.70 or even 1.72 so that we can access both DLCs
short tulip
Well, we got 1.64 when the Windows users had 1.66. So it would be normal if we got 1.68 while the Windows users have 1.70.
I'm probably going to buy the DLC Pack 2. Some of the DLC on that won't be coming out until after I've started saving up for my next computer in earnest.
tight yarrow
@short tulip psshh. Windows users ๐
hidden grail
they have decided to wait until arma 4 is released
then they will port arma 1.68 to linux
molten pulsar
๐
covert quiver
if anyone wants to play exile, a guy opened a server for linux/mac port
hidden grail
any other mods there except Exile ?
Exile on its own is boring with less than 20 players
covert quiver
then lets bring those min. 20 players together
hidden grail
gl, I had an Exile server with zombies before and there was max 7 people, on average 1-2 players
mostly people were complaining about it being boring cuz noone played it
and the situation with players on linux/mac playing multi seems even worse than before
my mission server used to have 10-12 players at the same time almost every day
now its more like 5-7
and we almost never play PVP
scenic sleet
people are waiting for the update
covert quiver
or we bring more players to linux/mac port, so BI will see that there is more need, and servers are better visited
scenic sleet
I know a lot of people who aren't playing the game because of the 32bit memory limitation causing issues for them, hopefully the 64bit client will resolve that
hidden grail
@covert quiver thats even a harder task
covert quiver
@hidden grail IMO always playing liberation gets boring
hidden grail
yes it is boring, but for a true PVP you need more people
and also a certain people do not want to play PVP
scenic sleet
I want to play PvP, I just don't want to play wasteland ๐
or any game mode where the people who have been playing on that server all day have a significant advantage over those who just joined (whether it's because they've earned money or collected lots of hardware)
wise canyon
lots of new GPU improvements for upcoming macOS High Sierra
including Apple endorsed support for external GPUs
dry venture
and vr ๐
rain flint
i can only get arma3server 1.70 running > need 1.64
molten pulsar
then use the proper branch ^^
However, the server and clients need to be the same version. We offer special legacyports branches on Steam for Windows to downgrade to the compatible version (access code: Arma3LegacyPorts for Arma 3 and Arma 3 Server).
I'd assume there's also such a branch for the linux server
rain flint
the steamcommand must be specified with password(?)
https://steamdb.info/app/233780/depots/?branch=legacyports
hidden grail
@rain flint In my steam script I use: app_update 233780 -betapassword Arma3LegacyPorts -beta legacyports validate
rain flint
omg finally! ty so much!
hidden grail
np
rain flint
right, i play your servers ๐
rain flint
no. i have no server yet
hidden grail
what are you planning ?
hidden grail
are you asking me if I like pvp ?
yes
actually I have never played a proper pvp in arma
I started playing arma when it came to linux, and there is just a few players
rain flint
its really good, but so far Zamatras K o t H only for MS/OS
hidden grail
yes
rain flint
just doing gungame
hidden grail
also no Battle royale
rain flint
ok
hidden grail
all I found was gun game, CTF, TDM and wasteland
these are also on my servers, but noone plays it
rain flint
oh good, that theyre there
rain flint
is CTI unmodded?
molten pulsar
there are a couple of CTI missions floating around
hidden grail
what is CTI ?
rain flint
the secret to Pvp Is to enable tactical walk, left ctrl + C, youll own everybody lol
molten pulsar
I guess something like Liberation but better and with AI
hidden grail
ok
dry venture
Has anyone tried rhs mod?
molten pulsar
@hidden grail http://www.thhamm.de/index.php?id=11
that's one of the few CTIs that's still being maintained
@dry venture yes but the latest versions don't work
you'll need a version that was released during the 1.64 era
hidden grail
@molten pulsar nice, the trailer didnt say much about the mission, but it might be interesitng
I need to try the windows version and see what people are actually playing except Exile, wasteland and Battle royale ๐
if bibi wont add it to his server I will
molten pulsar
they are long term missions though
rain flint
youre welcome to join me in emps unmodded, pvp
hidden grail
what r u playing @rain flint ?
rain flint
end game
scenic sleet
aww, wish I could join but I'm at work ๐ฆ
rain flint
np
dry venture
There is also ft-2 mod like koth with modern, rhs, ww2 servers
molten pulsar
yes but I don't think FT-2 is publicly available as a mission
hidden grail
yeah, seems so
molten pulsar
(and it needs a good amount of players to be fun ^^)
hidden grail
thats our biggest problem
that and that mods from workshop dont work
and a lot people dont want to/is lazy to/does not know how to download mods
molten pulsar
basically we need BI/VP to get on with it ๐
scenic sleet
well, in defence of the lazy, downloading mods is a pain, even with the steam workshop - it's not just click once and get that mod and all it's dependencies installed, you have to download them all individually
hidden grail
and symlink em
scenic sleet
we need a couple of things - automatic mod downloading, so when you try to join a server with mods it automatically downloads whatever is required and automatic mod dependency resolution
yep, and then symlink them all - downloaded an SP scenario the other day, 10 different mods involved ... complete pain
oh, and then unless the server you're joining has whitelisted those mods, you need to disable them and restart the game before you can join
so Arma might be a highly moddable game, but the whole mod install/management situation needs a LOT of work
it's really no wonder that most people cannot be bothered
hidden grail
basically we need something like a3launcher
scenic sleet
yep, hence why I wanted to write one, but time ... never enough of the stuff
rain flint
good game!
hidden grail
yeah, gg ๐
but with more people it would be even better
but GBee is all the time at work ๐
molten pulsar
the biggest problem with a linux specific launcher like thing is the distribution of (linux port compatible) mods
and the costs of hosting them somewhere ๐
rain flint
congrats to GV6, and emp, i thought a little too highly of myself
hasty pelican
is there really not one A3 launcher for linux? we really need to create one lol
rain flint
yeah, there really isnt one. can users make one for proprietary software?
hasty pelican
well a launcher would be seperate from the game itself, thus it doesn't matter if it's prop or foss
hidden grail
there is probably a lil problem if you would use steam api and would like to make the launcher oss
steam api license forbids the distribution of it as oss afaik
scenic sleet
distribution of the api key maybe, but I doubt that applies to the application itself
molten pulsar
what do you need the steam api for anyway? Mods that work with the ports that are on the workshop already will just be downloaded by steam and incompatible mods can't be managed that way ๐
hasty pelican
you sure about that? I can't find anything about that at all
I assume for Launcher Server-Browsing, as the official one does
molten pulsar
steam server lists are public as far as I know
scenic sleet
well the functionality I'd like to see is automatic mod install, so the user selects a server and the launcher get a list of the required mods and has steam start installing those, when it's complete you can join the server with only the allowed/required mods enabled
gritty shard
https://github.com/busquetsaguilopau/asma
https://github.com/muttleyxd/arma3-unix-launcher
those are 2 launchers for linux I know about - but haven't used neither of them
hasty pelican
I'll try that second one later, won't build with amdgpu-pro rn ๐
covert quiver
can recommend arma3-unix-launcher from muttley, also avaible in the AUR
hasty pelican
yeah, sounds interesting, building it now with mesa
okay, that's cool, being able to select mods and startup parameters :D
there seem to be a few missing though :/
and it doesn't seem to re-scan the arma folder for custom mods... deleted one and it still shows up.
guess I gotta make a pr :b
hidden grail
maybe they are holding our new version because of Malden
it should be available on 22 june
rain flint
DISCORD ARMA 3 1.64 PVP is up, if anyone dares take me on in a gun game, civilians
hidden grail
lol
sly rover
There is also https://github.com/MustD/a3al
And asma, which was previously mentioned, is on the AUR too (I'm the maintainer)
sly rover
Nice
hasty pelican
YUUUUSS!!! ๐
hasty pelican
I expect update June 22nd now
scenic sleet
though no Malden, since that requires 1.72
honestly not sure whether this is good or bad news. While I'd love to have 1.70 for the DLC and engine improvements, it's going to be a while before we actually get it. 1.68 has by far the more substantial improvement for those of us using OpenGL in the form of 64bit
hasty pelican
I don't see what's bad news about this
Now we know we'll get both 1.68 and 1.70
as 1.70 is now on Steamdb already, perhaps they even skip 1.68 and release 1.70 in its place.
scenic sleet
right the latter is the bad, Dwarden had already hinted at the past that he would personally prefer to skip 1.68 and go straight to 1.70 because of the hotfixes which came after the 1.68 release. It's been four months since 1.68 was released. I don't honestly expect that we'll see 1.70 in two weeks, more like 2-3 months from now.
if we don't get a 1.68 release, then we're probably going to be waiting a lot longer for the 64bit version
N.B. To be fair, Dwarden also said it wasn't up to him which version we got.
hasty pelican
nah, I think if they go straight to 1.70 they will release it in place of 1.68 and not ignore 1.68 and have us wait another 4 months.
why would 1.70 show up on Steamdb now already otherwise?
hasty pelican
did it?
doesn't feel like it's been that long lol
hmm, well but if they got 1.68 done, I don't really see a reason for skipping it if 1.70 isn't gonna release in it's place, especially as it brings 64 bit
scenic sleet
actually, make that 3 months ago that port_168 first appeared
molten pulsar
the 170 branch updated at least twice in the last 24 hours
there's definitely something happening
๐ฑ
short tulip
Bugfixes?
hasty pelican
boo! new sitrep has no info on ports
dry venture
win dev branch 1.72rc :/
rain flint
annoying that discord doesnt limit online users to the one channel relevant to me, or a user.
sly rover
Yeah, Discord leaves much to be desired, in my opinion.
If it weren't for this room, I would not use it.
rain flint
๐
short tulip
I don't see much chance of it, but we still have to hold on to hope.
sly rover
We still have a mystery announcement regarding the ports to look forward to.
I wouldn't be surprised if it meant that we are promoted from playing an experimental build.
short tulip
Well, here's hoping.
scenic sleet
or they are cancelled
hasty pelican
I don't think that if they were cancelled they would still work on 1.70
short tulip
Maybe they finally have a planned release date for 1.68 Experimental.
scenic sleet
I was joking about cancellation. (I hope)
I still don't think we'll see version parity until they end development for windows. Nothing we've seen suggests that they are turning out new port versions faster than before, and so the only way they could therefore bring the ports into line with Windows would be to delay the Windows releases, which they absolutely won't do.
short tulip
I suppose cancellation's always a possibility. But it's best not to discuss it.
dry venture
last dlc q1 2018 :/
short tulip
I guess I'll be buying the DLC Pack 2 since I'm going on a spending freeze from the middle of Q4 2017 to the middle of Q4 2018.
short tulip
@molten pulsar Wine means pretending to be a Windows user. It requires me to use the Windows version of Steam, which hurts the Linux statistics.
molten pulsar
true, but if it worked everyone would be using wine ๐
short tulip
If every Linux user just used Wine, nobody would ever be reported as using Linux. We would just be the shadow people who officially don't exist, because WE pretend to not exist.
molten pulsar
actually, steam knows that it's running under wine I believe
yep
Operating System Version:
Windows 7 (64 bit)
Wine Version: wine-2.9 (Staging)
NTFS: Supported
Crypto Provider Codes: Supported 311 0x0 0x0 0x0
no clue if it reports that as a Linux user though, probably not
main latch
hidden grail
it would be still better if people could play it through wine instead of moving to win
some people I know already did that
molten pulsar
they've been updating the branch more than usual again so my hopes are slightly up again ๐
gritty sage
Btw I haven't read about that here yet.. The Linux/Mac 1.70 64-bit Steam branch was updated 6 hours ago
scenic sleet
one hour before your post ๐
however I wouldn't read too much into it, the 1.68 port branch was open for 3 months and they updated it several times but we never saw 1.68 released
I don't expect 1.70 until next month at the earliest
sly rover
It would be silly for Steam to report all Wine users as Linux users, as they could just as easily be Windows or Mac users.
As for the mystery announcement, they wouldn't have announced an announcement just to say they are dropping it. I know you were kidding, @scenic sleet, but others seemed to have taken it as a real possibility.
Anyway, I'd be fine with us not reaching parity until the Windows version stops development, as long as they continue updates to the ports in the meantime (as they have been) and still provide the legacy branch for Windows users.
short tulip
Yeah. We'd all love to see the parity as soon as is practical. But if it means we don't get it until then, so be it.
But I would really prefer that ARMA 4 gets version parity as a developmental priority.
sly rover
Yeah, that would be nice.
scenic sleet
I think we all hope the next engine iteration will be multi-platform, then there would simply be no excuse not to have parity*
- Not strictly true, since more platforms requires more testing and development, there will always be an excuse if you go looking for one.
sly rover
Yeah, it isn't nearly that simple.
short tulip
It all depends on the flexibility of the engine. There seems to be an attitude that the Real Virtuality engine has reached it's limit and that ARMA 4 will require a new engine made from scratch. This can be their chance to commit to multiple OS compatibility from the ground up. If it's based on Vulkan, there's no reason we would have to worry about version parity in A4. Although Macintosh version parity will depend on Metal support as well. But I think this can work out quite well if they do it right.
scenic sleet
would they make a new engine from scratch, or would they just base it on Enfusion?
short tulip
Well, I guess they can do either. Or they can base it on another engine if they want to. Have we really gotten to the point where building a game engine from scratch has gotten to be such a headache that just making it for the sake of a single game is a lost art? Maybe we have.
scenic sleet
the modern average game engine is a lot of work, but an engine with the capabilities required for an Arma series game? If it was so easy to knock out one of those we'd see a lot more Arma clones
sly rover
Yeah, it isn't that it is a "lost art," it is just a lot of effort for a small gain. I don't see why they wouldn't use Enfusion.
scenic sleet
going OT, but does enfusion really resolve all the current performance bottlenecks?
I don't play DayZ so I can't compare for myself
sly rover
Doubt it
I cannot compare either, because it doesn't run on Linux.
But my understanding is that Enfusion was meant to rework some parts to be more efficient, as well as having a faster development pace, thanks to being in Early Access.
It is also possible that Enfusion is not considered to be fitting for an Arma game.
In that case, I would think they would continue with Real Virtuality rather than make a new engine or use a 3rd party one.
scenic sleet
I know that Enfusion has a better rendering pipeline for example. What I don't know is whether it has better threading so that it's less CPU bound
short tulip
I have no idea where all this talk of the Enfusion engine came from. I can only assume that it's from another channel. But what should matter to us the most is what an adoption of Enfusion means for version parity. If Enfusion will make it easy to pull it off, then it's in our best interest to support it. If not, then we need to try to downplay it.
scenic sleet
Enfusion is Bohemia's latest generation engine, they wrote it for DayZ (which was initially using Real Virtuality at launch)
sly rover
I don't think our conversations in here about what engines future BI games use are going to make a large impact on Linux ports or version parity.
We are not that important.
hasty pelican
so... no update for us? ๐
scenic sleet
looks like a no
short tulip
Well, that's the update that we get.
scenic sleet
I thought they might have given us 1.68 for the 16th anniversary, guess not
hasty pelican
yeah I was expecting an update tbh :(
scenic sleet
oh, interesting, an update just downloaded - not a full version change, it was only 68.8MB in size ... guess I should check it out
hmm, just hangs on startup
@left fog Was there any update to the linux client, or has something been accidentally broken?
hasty pelican
probably the new soundtrack if you got the deluxe edition
short tulip
It launched for me, but a Twitch stream that I'm watching started lagging.
scenic sleet
it launched, got as far as the Arma Apex splash and is stuck on that
hasty pelican
hmm...
scenic sleet
ok, it got past that and now I'm looking at a very broken ui and it's still not responding
E.runloop is consuming 100.7% CPU
UI looks normal now, still unresponsive ๐ฆ
hasty pelican
the linux bin depot says it's been updated- https://steamdb.info/depot/249507/
scenic sleet
it's still 1.64, no sign of any DLC content
I had to kill the process and restart it, after that it loads ok, but I don't see what has changed
hidden grail
windows legacy build has been changed to 1.70 an hour ago
dunno if that indicates anything relevant for us tho
short tulip
So they can no longer downgrade to 1.64?
hidden grail
there is still also a 1.64 legacy build for win
maybe they just released 1.72 for win
short tulip
Oh. I just looked at the Dev announcements and Malden is scheduled to come out for free today. I guess they are going to be releasing 1.72 on Windows. And maybe the update that we got was to make sure that the Linux version will be compatible with the new server that's been rolled out for it.
Yeah. I think they did release 1.72 on Windows.
hasty pelican
yeah 1.72 is released on windows
and the windows legacy build is different from the ports-legacy-build branch
scenic sleet
yeah, 1.72 was always scheduled to come out today because it's the 16th Anniversary of Arma, this was the one solid deadline that we knew about months in advance
but we were hoping they'd also give us an updated linux version today for the same reason
sly rover
If you don't have these expectations, you can't get disappointed when they aren't met.
Which is especially relevant when they promise us nothing.
Be happy with what we have, but happier with what more we get!
scenic sleet
my expectation wasn't that high, and my disappointment not that great. Even if we'd had got the update today I don't think I'll have much time to play Arma or any other game for the next few weeks, so it's ultimately not that relevant to me.
I am curious to see whether the 64bit version allows me to play at 4k though, 32bit version just downgrades to low textures and even lower LODs which I assume is because there's not enough memory.
gritty sage
https://steamdb.info/app/107410/depots/ There was no update to the Linux branch
32Bit can also use >3GB of Vram on windows. So I'd guess it's the same on Linux. But you need to go hacking to achive that
molten pulsar
VRAM is limited due to some OpenGL thing
VRAM is "mapped" or whatever to the process RAM
you're probably talking about the >3GB hacky thing in Windows though ๐
gritty sage
Yeah. But I though same might apply to Linux. But yeah. Now as you said it I remember too ^^
scenic sleet
the ram limit under 32bit is actually 4GB on linux, but as noted the issue is more an OpenGL specific limitation
quasi orchid
i really hope they dont leave the linux fanbase in the cold :/ there have been quite a few updates already and we are still stuck on 1.64.... i wonder why and what is keeping them back... "besides money" (ps, or the mac version at that as well)
scenic sleet
it's just because they've contracted out the work to the third party and it takes time
we know it's being worked on, you can see them creating the internal branches in steam.
sly rover
Yeah, I don't think we are being abandoned just yet.
quasi orchid
fingers crossed ๐
left fog
@scenic sleet so someone need to hack 32-bit OpenGL on Linux to offload the VRAM memory outside the 4GB block ๐
in worst case with some additional kernel hacking ๐คฃ
scenic sleet
@left fog Well it wouldn't be worth the effort since we're getting 64bit ... unless this is your way of breaking some bad news to us ๐
cyan knoll
Argo : post argo update : non-legacy-branch : error message on launch Addon 'A3_Map_Tanoabuka' requires 'A3_Beta_F_Argo_Loadorder'
hasty pelican
why are you posting this in mac/linux branch channel? Argo is not available for Mac/Linux
left fog
@cyan knoll Argo has it's own discord, see #channel_invites_list (or was this related to Arma 3 data issues ? (in such case best re-verify)
novel flicker
hey guys, did anyone get arma running on arch?
covert quiver
yea
hasty pelican
yup
sly rover
You'll have better luck asking about your problem than asking if people have achieved what you desire.
In general, @novel flicker
molten pulsar
still waiting for this update dammit ๐
novel flicker
haha nice. any suggestions on how o get it running @hasty pelican and @covert quiver . first of all i get ERROR - eON failed to launch
in the terminal
hasty pelican
as I didn't have to do anything to make it run I need some more information
is that all the error you get? check the logs to see if there's some more info. (.local/share/bohemiainteractive/arma3/eon.txt)
hasty pelican
are you running Steam with runtime or native libs?
please also post the output of ldd arma3.i386, I'm guessing you're missing some kind of library
sly rover
Even if that isn't your issue, you may want to install the steam-native-runtime package, just in case.
hasty pelican
did you already validate files in Steam?
novel flicker
fresh install
scenic sleet
have you tried without native?
steam ships with it's own runtime for a reason after all ...
novel flicker
same with runtime
hasty pelican
try deleting the arma3.vpfs file and validate
also try deleting the EonRegistry.xml (same folder as the eon log) and then start the game
at this point I'm just guessing lol
novel flicker
there is no EonRegistry in .local/share/bohemiainteractive/arma3/
scenic sleet
shrugs
in terms of off-brand distros you can't go more obscure than Mageia which I'm running (it's not even a respin of any existing distro) and it just works.
so I've no idea what Arch must be doing differently that is breaking it
novel flicker
propably some missing libaries
molten pulsar
no ldd should point that out
scenic sleet
same issue with EON, couple of people reported different fixes in there
__GLVND_DISALLOW_PATCHING=1 is the solution from VP dev
apparently an issue with EON and certain gpu driver versions ... are you using AMD (ATI) or Nvidia?
scenic sleet
best bet would be to contact VP support then - https://virtualprogramming.freshdesk.com/support/login
scenic sleet
new sitrep, no news on ports update ๐ฆ
hidden grail
๐
molten pulsar
๐
hasty pelican
๐
quasi orchid
not sure if you guys can help me but.... i am trying to use a xbox one controller (wireless, recon tech version) with arma, so far i have the device hooked up to the system (linux mint 18.2 sonya) i have it recognised and calibrated (as in everyting responds as it should), but ingame in the controls menu the device does not show up and i cannot use it, does anyone have any ideas on how to get the darn thing actually working here?
any input would be much appreciated.
i have to add, the left thumbstick does move the mouse around while on the ingame menus (and also allows looking around with the avatar at insane speeds (too sensitive) ) but that is about it...
hasty pelican
been a long time since I last used a controller with ArmA, but I think I had to set up the controls manually, so just like you would change your keyboard controls, but press controller buttons instead
about the controller moving the mouse, if you don't want that there is a way to disable that ; should be in the config file of your controller driver (you using xpad or xboxdrv?)
and about super sensitivity... I guess turn down sensitivity ingame maybe? I have this issue in GRID, but I have yet to find a fix for it :(
quasi orchid
therein lies the isue, ingame it doesnt "see" my controller, the controller options panel is empty and it doesnt seem to map input in the other sections.
quasi orchid
ah well, i'll try again in the future...
sly rover
In my experience, controller support in Arma on Linux is unreliable.
You could use Steam Input to make it work.
scenic sleet
Steam controller worked fine the last time I tried it
hasty pelican
well it was defo not 25GB Oo
what was the pw for it again?
(I wanna see how much I need to dl)
molten pulsar
seems unlikely that that's the update
legacyports Legacy Build (1.64 - ports) 1533826 6 months ago
wouldn't mind it though ๐
pw is Arma3LegacyPorts @hasty pelican
hidden grail
me too, 5GB only
but if there was an update, you should not use any legacy branch
the main branch should contain the update
scenic sleet
still changes being made on ports_170-64 branch, so that's good.
hasty pelican
great
I hope we get an update soon
short tulip
I bought the DLC Bundle 2 yesterday.
hasty pelican
I just realized the Orange DLC was planned for Q2 and before Malden... it's still not even revealed, hmm ๐ค
molten pulsar
suspicious
scenic sleet
plans change, I guess they needed more time
molten pulsar
cues X-files theme
scenic sleet
Jets was a little delayed, and Malden had a fixed release date so the couldn't move that back. Perhaps they moved Orange after Malden so they didn't end up releasing three DLCs in a one month period
hasty pelican
another sitrep and again no information on ports :(
at least steamdb was updated recently, so work hasn't stopped by the looks of it
dry venture
more like trying to catch win ver
novel flicker
@CUPTNCAPS if have found out what caused my arma to give out the message "VPFS_Setup() failed". and not execute
it seems like if u have ur steam libary on another partition and u have either a whitepace or a mutation in ur path to the game, it will not load
for me it was /home/don/Datentrรคger/Date Linux
now i have remounted it to home/don/Festplatten/Linux and suddenly it worked just fine.
btw same seems to go for the other virtual programming ports like bioshock infinit
scenic sleet
eww, is VP using unescaped system calls or something?
novel flicker
lol what are those?
sly rover
You may want to open an issue on their bug tracker
molten pulsar
you should report the missing 1.72 builds ๐
hasty pelican
Oh wow, that sucks, really should report that.
novel flicker
yeah i already did. well at least i wrote them in my last support ticket
@molten pulsar they wrote regarding the missing 1.72 build -> As for updating, this is in 2K's hands, it is not our game to work on without permission.
lel
sly rover
Well there was obviously some miscommunication there.
molten pulsar
lol ๐
novel flicker
well at least they try. techland won't even give support for non lts versions of ubuntu. not even to think of such perversions like linux mint or even arch!!!
covert quiver
can understand atl for archlinux... tons of stuff users maybe changed
anyone plays arma 3 on gentoo? ๐
novel flicker
did u get it to run there @covert quiver ?
covert quiver
@novel flicker playing on archlinux
scenic sleet
so 1.72 build is missing because VP got their customers confused and are waiting on 2K to give the go ahead? ๐
molten pulsar
sure sounds like it.. I know something was off ๐
novel flicker
please bohemia interactive tell 2K to give the go! we need 1.72 here ๐
scenic sleet
taps his foot impatiently
novel flicker
please 2K !!! xD
molten pulsar
what 2K have they been porting anyway?
nevermind.. plenty apparently ๐
no, just BioShock Infinite ๐
hasty pelican
I'm in Czechia rn, I'll check by BI and ask them to hurry tf up ;P
molten pulsar
just steal a build that runs ๐
covert quiver
just steal the complete source code lol
hasty pelican
And make it open source :D
short tulip
I'd rather that they willingly open the source code if it's ever going to happen.
scenic sleet
paces and keeps checking his watch
molten pulsar
anyone want to join my cause and chain ourselves to BI's tank? Chanting "What do we want?! Updated port!" ๐
sly rover
It isn't like you could make someone's code Free against their will. There is a huge difference between leaked code and FLOSS.
short tulip
I wasn't saying that it's impossible to leak the source code. I'm just saying that it's morally wrong to do so.
hasty pelican
Sry guys, no can do, they said VP has the port code ;(
scenic sleet
and they're holding it hostage? Outrageous! We shall march on the VP offices immediately!
hasty pelican
But
Where are they? ๐
scenic sleet
Bournemouth, UK
hidden grail
ideally we should drive there in the tank marceldev mentioned ๐
covert quiver
how does the tank come frome czech to UK?
hasty pelican
Cargo plane
covert quiver
how do we get an cargo plane? ๐
hasty pelican
Rent it?
covert quiver
anyone here with enough arma flying hours to consider him a pilot ? ๐
hidden grail
eurotunnel
covert quiver
i dont think a MBT would fit in there
hidden grail
I can takeoff in arma, but we would have to parachute, cuz I am terrible at landing ๐ฌ
covert quiver
i cand land if we have reversed-jato
hidden grail
not sure if in real planes you can use mouse and arrows ๐
hidden grail
๐
hasty pelican
I fly helicopters a lot in Arma
But i can't land a plane at all xD
hidden grail
actually I think it would be easier to get heli than to get a cargo plane and a tank
hasty pelican
But what Heli can lift a T70?
hidden grail
we should better get some attack chopper, even the littlebird would do and we wont need a tank
maybe the easiest would be to corrupt them with cookies ๐ช
covert quiver
i dont think VP is such an company
hasty pelican
Poison cookies
hidden grail
captn if you kill them, they wont port it ๐ฎ
hasty pelican
But we can steal the source code
covert quiver
any good programmer here? just kill them and replace them
hidden grail
Ped does C++
covert quiver
i only know Rust
hasty pelican
I can program but i think arma would be a bit over the top
hidden grail
we can give him the cookies to make arma great again
short tulip
So who would like to have murder charges on their rap sheet over this?
covert quiver
worth it.
covert quiver
we must convict him that we are good pple
short tulip
No. It isn't. There are few things in the world that are worth going to prison for decades on end.
@covert quiver This will convince him that we are bad people.
hidden grail
next tuesday you will see in Sitrep: Arma on linux canceled due to community threatening with poisoned cookies ๐
hasty pelican
Hahaha
covert quiver
@short tulip lmao
hidden grail
at least Liam from GOL can write a new article about toxic linux community
hasty pelican
Yeah :D
covert quiver
insider?
short tulip
To be honest, I haven't seen a lot of the toxicity that the Linux community is apparently notorious for. I also wasn't around the Ubuntu forums when the Witcher 2 port was still not very well optimized. But I've recently heard about that horrible debacle.
covert quiver
hidden grail
i only read about it too
hasty pelican
I've not seen many toxic linux users either
hidden grail
exactly, almost all people that I met on linux arma servers were really friendly (some even reviving enemies on Wasteland ๐ )
except some Mac kids
but those were small minority
hasty pelican
I mean there's always assholes, but to me it doesn't feel like it's the majority
molten pulsar
we're all a bunch of hippies and by definition not toxic besides the occasional acid
Maccies tend to be a bit more "different" because of the Apple thing ๐
covert quiver
well said x)
naive hinge
๐ค
short tulip
I'm not sure if I'll be able to join the event today. The usual probation forbidding me from launching Steam games during certain conditions that are usually true all Saturday long until the evening EDT. If I have a window of opportunity to launch the game, it might be too brief for me to take advantage of it.
I might be more available in late August. But Saturdays will always be very iffy for me.
hidden grail
well, next time we might do it on Sunday
for all interested today at 17:00 UTC (19:00 CET) we will have an Arma event on emp's Event server
we will be playing Patrol OPS - a PVE mission with pretty interesting missions
no mods and no DLCs are needed, its on Altis
everyone is welcome ! ๐ซ
additional info: its for those who have Arma 3 version 1.64
short tulip
On Sundays, I'm going to have schedule restrictions and fatigue to cope with. The probation may or may not come into play as well, but at least it's not guaranteed. I can try to mitigate this as much as possible if I have a day's worth of warning.
hidden grail
arma event now at emp's Event server
scenic sleet
well, don't wish to be too pessamistic, but it's that day every two weeks in which announcements usually happen and there's no sign of preparation in the Ports repo, so I guess we can't expect a release for at least another two weeks.
molten pulsar
really hate the lack of communication ๐ฆ
scenic sleet
yeah, and it's getting worse, not better
I don't need a release date, but a "we're still working on it but having issues" would be better than silence
hasty pelican
Again nothing new in the sitrep...
I demand information D:<
jk, but really it would be nice if they talked to us more, especially as they are so open about development pretty much everywhere except the ports ๐ฆ
scenic sleet
8 months without any information at all is a long time
hasty pelican
I mean I guess since it's experimental ports they don't want to hype it up too much in case they decide to discontinue it, but a bit more communication would be nice still... but hey they promised us some new information a little while back didn't they? so there's got to be something coming up soon...
scenic sleet
did they promise us more information though?
hasty pelican
I thought they did a while back... they mentioned they'd have some announcement for the ports? Could be I'm remembering something wrong tho :b
Yes, in "Scanning the Horizon: ArmA 3 in 2017"
we also plan to continue our support for linux and mac ports. we aim to announce more about that later this year
and iirc, there was no announcement yet
https://arma3.com/news/scanning-the-horizon-arma-3-in-2017 video @ 8:15
hidden grail
@rain flint next time pls let me know on our Discord channel https://discord.gg/PfdzHj , as this one is the official BI's
and if somebody is TKing, tell them to stop or they will get banned
and its Wasteland as I can see and he is independent -> so he can shoot anyone
scenic sleet
@hasty pelican Less of a promise and more of a non-committal "we'll try, but ..."
rain flint
@hidden grail thank you.
i dont know if was wasteland,, it had supply drops, and assination missions. If it was, then OK.
scenic sleet
@rain flint Yes, in Wasteland, bluefor faction and opfor faction compete against each other as teams, but independent faction are just lone wolves who compete against everyone. They can, and sometimes do coordinate and work together but it's not required or guarenteed.
if you don't want to be killed by teammates, go for the bluefor or opfor teams (blue/red)
hidden grail
yeah, GBee is right, you can trust him in this, he loves to play Wasteland every time he can ๐ ๐
heavy lion
The last change in the 1.70 port depot was (according to steamdb) about 2 hours ago, so they are still actively working on it ;)
rain flint
not sure it was
scenic sleet
depot updates every day for the last three, I think they are just screwing with us now ๐
hasty pelican
well that's great, perhaps we will get an update soon
hidden grail
ooor not
they will release it again, when we will be 2 versions behind
so when they got 1.74, then we might get 1.70
molten pulsar
they could just not rename the branch but actually be working on 1.72 ^^
the long pause between updates a little while ago being the 1.72 engine updates that needed extra work for porting?
tries to stay optimistic
๐
hasty pelican
ooor not
you do know the meaning of "perhaps", yes? ๐
hidden grail
๐ณ ๐ค
short tulip
Why does the port take so long, anyway?
sly rover
Development is hard
scenic sleet
well, to a degree that's true, but no-one really knows exactly why it takes so long, even when the changes between the two releases were relatively minor and it should be relatively straightforward. This one is made more complicated because of the switch from 32bit to 64bit
sly rover
VP knows exactly why!
gritty sage
They don't really have to switch to x64 though.. We would like that but we don't need that
scenic sleet
@gritty sage They really do ... the memory constraints as a result of OpenGL placing textures in system (and video) memory mean that the linux/mac port has even less memory than Windows affecting performance. Issues like the 5fps bug are only resolved with move to 64bit
I say resolved, but it's more of a workaround, they never did fix the underlying issue causing the problem
quasi orchid
Hi everyone. I'm having trouble with Apex on linux, I have access to new assets in editor, but I cannot launch campaign with message that I need to quit the game and wait until it's downloaded
Is there a known trick how to make it work?
scenic sleet
just worked for me and most others, it sounds like there was an issue downloading it, have you verified files or uninstalled the DLC and reinstallled it?
sly rover
Can also try opting into the legacy ports beta meant for Windows users.
But it doesn't sound like that issue.
As for the 64bit upgrade, they need to anyway because there is no longer a 32 bit version of Arma 3. If you want to continue having updates, you must accept this.
(as far as I know)
hasty pelican
uhm ofc there is still a 32bit version of arma
on windows the launcher asks you which one you wanna start 64 or 32
if they didn't change it since I last checked
just checked, still works
http://i.imgur.com/6uspQFa.png
sly rover
Ah. Well I hope that changes ;)
scenic sleet
really no point in supporting 32bit, except that I'm sure there's one or two 32bit windows users who bought Arma and will be upset if the game suddenly stops working for them
gritty sage
Or people that don't use x64 for other reasons
scenic sleet
such as? I'm genuinely curious
dry venture
i.e. later this year new macos will be last 32bit os, so in a year it'll be only 64bit apps, devs were warned and started migrating their apps
scenic sleet
yeah, linux has had excellant 64bit support in userland for over 10 years and in the kernel since 2001 ... all CPUs produced in more or less the last decade have supported it. Which is why I'm genuinely baffled to find that there are still people using 32bit, especially on systems built for gaming
hasty pelican
well on linux almost everyone uses 64bit (gaming on linux stats show of 2019 people, 1 uses 32bit)
I guess there may be more 32bit on windows due to upgrading windows versions, iirc you can't go from 32 to 64 bit when you only buy an upgrade and not a full version
thin slate
what's the current version on the linux branch? is it far behind windows?
short tulip
1.64
thin slate
Cool :D and Windows branch is at...?
hasty pelican
but 1.68 and 1.70 are in the works, and hopefully released soon :D
scenic sleet
well, not 1.68
1.74 release for Windows isn't far off, they recently froze the Orange DLC meaning it's release will probably be within the next 2-4 weeks at the latest
short tulip
And then we'll be clamoring for that to come out on Linux, and whatever work was done on the 1.70 and 1.72 ports will just seem outdated.
It just seems like it takes less time for BI to release a patch for Windows than for VP to port one of those patches to Linux.
hidden grail
what will be in Orange DLC ?
gritty sage
@hidden grail Everything
hasty pelican
I bet we will get actual oranges
But my bet is civilians in war or something about medical stuff
But let's wait for next sitrep, orange devlog is already recorded (jay crowe tweeted it)
hidden grail
I hope it will be something better than karts ๐
scenic sleet
Karts was an april fools joke that people liked so much they turned it into reality
it was never meant to be taken seriously
Orange DLC is still top-secret, but various bits of evidence point to a civilian or post-war reconstruction type theme, possibly involving mine clearance as one of the focuses
We do know it's meant to be different from the other DLCs, something they've not done before and with a "different viewpoint" on war
I don't think Orange is going to have widespread appeal, but it should be interesting and add a new dimension to the game
scenic sleet
also worth remembering that money from Karts went to charity
and I suspect, if we're even remotely right about the subject of Orange DLC, that the same will happen there
scenic sleet
seems like Orange is going to be the focus for the next couple of weeks, so I won't be holding my breath for ports updates any time soon
sly rover
You probably shouldn't do that anyway ๐
hasty pelican
no words in the new sitrep
just that orange is bigger than expected and thus fullprice now
and that its being revealed soon
i want port info ๐ข
hasty pelican
just released
I'm following A3 on steam, thus get notifications when they post news etc. ;)
molten pulsar
ah cool ๐
scenic sleet
@HERO#0927 Yeah, I'm now resigned to the fact that even assuming we do get another update, I'm not going to be able to play it before late October as I'll be travelling for work. Which sucks, but that's how it goes I guess
accepting that might also be good for my productivity, because instead of checking here, the forums, the Arma twitter feeds and steamdb for updates I can focus on other things ๐
arctic oyster
I have a problem on my arma : ```[thread 00000004][I][1815]: Game asks for Windows double click time interval. Returning default 500 ms, as there's no standard in Linux for it; in the future, as time permits we'll be adding support for various window managers, detecting them.
[thread 00000004][W][1816]: eON_LoadLibraryEx() couldn't load 'BIDebugEngine', returning NULL!
[thread 00000004][I][1817]: Enumerating COM libraries...
The game doesn't not start and i don't have return on shell.
This log return by eon.txt
of*
scenic sleet
well as it was working recently, and there have been no updates, has anything changed in your system?
arctic oyster
I upgrade my Fedora 25 to 26 but it work after this upgrade.
I play 2h after upgrade. Arma running perfectly. But today arma refuse to start ๐ฆ
scenic sleet
done a steam validation?
delete and reinstall?
maybe also try restarting the machine
arctic oyster
Validation files success. I try to reinstall.
molten pulsar
what GPU do you use?
F26 and nvidia aren't quite buddies with each other from what I've heard
don't have the port installed so I can't test on my F26 install for you ๐ฆ
arctic oyster
GTX 960 and i use last official nvidia driver (http://http.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/384.59/).
I update nvidia driver each kernel update.
molten pulsar
are you using a Wayland or X11/Xorg session?
might want to try on Xorg if you're on Wayland currently
arctic oyster
x11```I'm installing the port now will report back in about 30 minutes
see if it runs for me on F26 ๐
arctic oyster
he run perferctly on F26 but today he not running. LOL
molten pulsar
@arctic oyster A3 port starts just fine for me
using the open source AMD drivers
must be some GPU driver issue you're having
arctic oyster
If y use nouveau driver, is not compatible with arma
He as not hight opengl version
molten pulsar
ah
you could try reinstalling the nvidia drivers
like let them recompile for your kernel or whatever
arctic oyster
Driver work perfectly because run another game. And i don't have problem.
arctic oyster
I reinstalling the game, after is finish. I test if run or not
arctic oyster
i have move .local/bohemiainteractive/arma folder
molten pulsar
well that's all I could think of ๐
arctic oyster
No the reinstallation doesn't work. I try the reboot
I have reboot, the game start but i have A3_Map_Tanoabuka requires addon A3_Data_F_Argo_Loadorder
๐
My game is up, thanks for your help ! ๐
scenic sleet
weird that you'd get a message about Tanoa requiring something from Argo?
since a) Tanoa preceeded Argo by several months b) Argo development was unrelated to Arma c) Argo doesn't even used Tanoa, but the new Malden map
molten pulsar
do we have a rogue 1.72 port? ๐
sand kindle
Do i have to run arma on ancient x11?
Will also try with my fed26 installation. But im runnin wayland so... thats why i ask
arctic oyster
I have upgrade fedora 25 to 26. Fedora 25 running on X11 because on upgrade he not upgrade to wayland. I have wayland is installed.
molten pulsar
@sand kindle my test was with Wayland so that works just fine ๐
arctic oyster
And no i have 1.64, i never have this Argo addon message error. Just today.
molten pulsar
(with an AMD GPU)
arctic oyster
My gnome on X11, crash every time
Lol BattlEye no block memory
BEClient is bull shit on Unix
sly rover
The new Arma 3 DLC was announced: http://store.steampowered.com/app/571710/Arma_3_Laws_of_War/
Rather, released
Wait, no...
Revealed! That's the word.
(this is Orange)
scenic sleet
yeah, we've been discussing it for hours ๐
gritty sage
Yep. A couple hours ago. #general_chat_arma Is full of it and reddit also.
arctic oyster
is diffrent of orange.
scenic sleet
and #dev_rc_branch
sly rover
General chat isn't very interesting when we are a separate(d) bunch.
short tulip
The Linux patch will come one day, hopefully. And we are going to enjoy the heck out of it when it does.
(That has been on my buffer for way too long. It even persisted across restarts of the Discord client.)
short tulip
Well, I'm sure you will be able to kill them. But you'll get in trouble for it.
hidden grail
VAC ban
short tulip
I don't think it will be that serious. The consequences will probably be only within the game itself, not across all games of ARMA 3.
hidden grail
of course, I am just kidding, noone would buy that
scenic sleet
maybe, just maybe people will think twice before shooting civilians ...
short tulip
Yeah. Although it's probably going to be a challenge when civilians are going to be in the battlefield. Maybe they are going to be casually walking through the battlefield without a care in the world. Maybe there might even be anti-war protestors who will be marching through the battlefield chanting slogans against whichever army has human players in it.
I can probably expect that within 24 hours of this DLC coming out, some Zeus is going to start doing Palestinian strategies involving shooting rockets from hospitals and getting tons of civilians to make it impossible to attack the launchers without harming civilians.
scenic sleet
nah, difficulty avoiding them when providing CAS is one thing, but we're talking about people intentionally shooting the civilians in Liberation. It happens almost every single time we play. A few veteran players know better, though even then, not all the time.
@short tulip To which the other faction will respond by using illegal weapons like Phosphorus against civilian targets?
short tulip
@scenic sleet No, just trying to keep civilian casualties to a minimum, but still get accused of targeting civilians for the adhoc purposes of ethnic cleansing.
scenic sleet
there's a whole mess of politics there that I don't really wish to get into on a Friday night ๐ Or on the internet for that matter
scenic sleet
so a VP insider gave an insight into one of the reasons why it takes so long for the ports to happen and it's apparently to do with the fact that BI do their own extensive QA on the ports. Quoting "BI do a lot of their own testing on ARMA 3 across fedora, mint and ubuntu,โ in fact BI are very thorough, probably the most thorough QA we've ever had"
it's been speculated in the past that the double QA process (VP followed by BI) was at least partially responsible for the slow pace, and that seems to be confirmed.
of course, knowing changes nothing about how quickly we'll get updates ๐ฆ
short tulip
Well, we really do end up getting really good pots when we actually get anything at all.
scenic sleet
I know why they won't do it, but I kinda wish they'd add a dev branch for the ports. At least I could then be working on adding the new assets from the DLCs into my scenarios so they were ready when the main release occurs ๐
we're coming up to what, 8-9 months since the last update?
and 3 new DLCs, two of which we're unlikely to get until sometime next year by which time another 1 or 2 DLCs will be out
short tulip
I only recall Jets as a paid DLC, and Malden if a free DLC counts as DLC. Laws of War comes out next month.
After that is Tac-ops and Tanks, and everything that I bought in the DLC Bundle 2 will be available for WIndows users.
...but not me.
scenic sleet
LoW is officially released next month, but it's available for people to try out on the windows dev branch right now
hasty pelican
yup
I played the campaign and damn it's amazing! Can't wait until it becomes pbo's so we can check out the tricks they used to make all the stuff they did (trying not to spoiler) :D
short tulip
PBO?
gritty sage
@short tulip Orange DLC and Jet's DLC are in EBO. Encrypted form of PBO that a usual Player can't unpack
scenic sleet
@short tulip PBO and EBO are compressed containers, basically just zip and encrypted zip, with a particular internal structure and metadata files that the game expects to find
game, dlc or mod content is packed into one or more PBOs
at release content is usually in the encrypted EBO format, to stop people ripping and sharing it
short tulip
And it eventually gets changed to PBO?
scenic sleet
after a few months, or a year or two yes to allow modders to create derivatives
they want to encourage modding, but don't want to make it easy for people to play the DLC content without paying for it
short tulip
Ah. Okay.
scenic sleet
so modders have to wait to get access
gritty sage
PBO/EBO are not compressed by default and very few packers implement compression
gritty sage
that... is actually very correct.. Never heard anyone comparing it to tar till now. ^^
scenic sleet
that's odd to be honest, I would have sworn back in the OfP days that PBOs were just renamed zips, but maybe I'm thinking of some other game
gritty sage
PBO's were definetly never zip's. Might be that compression was used a bit more back then. And AFAIK PBO compression is using zlib or gzip
scenic sleet
maybe it was the ID engine that used zip for compression
Quake 2 etc
it's all too long ago for me to remember now
molten pulsar
hmm there's a new branch called rc_l and the Arma 3 Port - Linux Bin depot was updated 8 days ago ๐ค
I believe that depot hasn't had any updates in a long time
(not the port branch btw)
scenic sleet
rc branch is for the DLC release candidate, they announced it a couple of days ago
port branch was last updated on Monday
hidden grail
@molten pulsar I saw that rc_l branch too ... l stands for linux ๐ but then I realized that it would be too beautiful to be true ๐
scenic sleet
in the chat accompanying the livestream earlier, they said they have nothing to share on the linux port except that it was being discussed internally.
Not sure what to make of that, but if they are having internal discussions about it, it doesn't sound good to me. You don't usually need to have discussions about something when you're sticking to the existing plan ...
tight yarrow
@scenic sleet problem is that they don't even make the port. So either the plan is changing in some way or it is being thrown out
scenic sleet
well from their perspective, they've been paying VP to work on the next release for three quarters of a year and it's still not done. Maybe they are dissatisfied with the progress that VP are making, and so yeah, they will abandon the project.
I hope that's not the case and that I'm just being paranoid ...
tight yarrow
Or maybe they delayed release for support on upcoming stable builds?
scenic sleet
the working branch is still labelled 1.70, assuming they didn't just switch to porting 1.74 or 1.76, it would be another few months before they were done with that release and by that time the Windows release will be 1.8x. It seems futile at this point for them to keep moving the goalposts, that just guarantees that it will never see the light of day
tight yarrow
Yep, just keep playing catch up
scenic sleet
I also worry they are judging the size of the linux community on the basis of this beta, when I know that most people are avoiding buying the game until they get a firmer commitment to the platform from BI. No-one wants to buy the game for linux, only for BI to abandon it shortly after.
tight yarrow
Arent the keys transferrable?
scenic sleet
you mean can you play the game on Windows instead?
tight yarrow
As far as I know that is the case
hidden grail
maybe they just want to give a little taste of Arma for the linux and Mac community, and the people that get interested in Arma have to switch to Windoze
to play Arma to its full potential
also the future of the Arma port might really be uncertain, as they stopped communicating
not even a message like that they are working on it, and that its coming
even Dwarden stopped commenting anything here
short tulip
We need to be more positive around here. Dwarden has been popping in now and then. But right now, he's busy with the new patch.
hidden grail
he hasnt been here for like half a year
short tulip
He last spoke here on June 24th.
Granted, that has been a while, but it's nowhere near half a year
tight yarrow
That is fairly recent
hidden grail
hmm, didnt see that comment probably
tight yarrow
It was argo related...his last post in here.
hidden grail
we need a trojan horse in BI, that would update us, somebody pls get a job there ๐
trojan horse meant as a spy, not a malware*
hasty pelican
I'll do that, always wanted to work for BI anyway :P
nah jk, but it really would be nice if they told us something... even just "its in progress" would be enough :/
but yeah, maybe they see the amount of people who play it now in the beta and think it's not worth it. But I'm sure because it's a beta many people either don't even know about it (it's nowhere to be seen on Steam) or don't want to buy it because it's outdated and might not even be continued. :/
but hey, at least they're interested at all to bring their game to linux, which is in itself a good sign. And they said they are working on their "new" Enfusion engine, which will thus probably power ArmA4. And maybe, just maybe, they'll make sure it's crossplatform from the start.
hasty pelican
perhaps we need an open source re-implementation of Real Virtuality, OpenRV ๐
sand kindle
I guess a lot ppl just wait for the final linux release and dont bother to test/play beta.
And keep plaing on windows in the meantime.
scenic sleet
which would be logical since you can't play online with your windows using friends if you use the linux/mac version.
due to the version disparity
sand kindle
Exactly
scenic sleet
I've said all along, that if they intended to use this beta as some indication of the interest in a linux version, they've gone about it in the wrong way.
hasty pelican
I'd play the linux version more if they didn't upgrade the p3d version everytime they make an update... because of that basically no mods ever load. and I already know all the default content... +why force my friends to downgrade their windows version and play without mods when I can just dualboot?
that's the thing, although the linux version is great, as long as it's not on-par with windows, it's pretty much useless
scenic sleet
I'm going to be heatbroken if they do abandon the ports :/ I'm not going to buy a copy of Windows and start dual-booting, although if there was one game that would have made me seriously consider it, it would be Arma.
hasty pelican
yes I get that, I don't want the ports cancelled either, I'd much rather just play from linux instead of dualbooting. but I (an probably many others) bought A3 before the ports were a thing and played on Windows already (I switched to linux shorty before ports were announced) so we have windows installs and windows friends and thus the ports aren't all that useful for us yet. I hope they continue to port ArmA3, eventually getting us on-par with windows after Tanks released, but until then, I don't think I'm going to use the linux version much... especially because of the aforementioned incompatibility with a huge number of mods
I don't quite understand why they have to port every update anyway, instead of just porting the latest version...
scenic sleet
they aren't porting every update, for example we currently have 1.64 now and the port in progress is 1.70
and they started working on the 1.70 port when 1.70 was the current windows version
however since they started working on porting that version, 1.72 and 1.74 have been released for Windows
hasty pelican
were they not working on 1.68 while 1.70 was already long out? we're at 1.74 (almost 1.76) already.
scenic sleet
they started working on 1.68 before 1.70 was out, and since 1.68 was the 64bit port I guess that was taking some time, so after 1.70 was out I guess BI made the call to switch to that version
hasty pelican
oh okay
scenic sleet
but it's not as though they are porting every version, they are skipping versions but because of the length of time each port is requiring, it's always outdated before it's released
if 1.70 was released today, I guess they'd start on 1.74 next (skipping 1.72), but by the time they were finished 1.76 would already be out for Windows, maybe even 1.78
gritty sage
1.72->1.74 was not a big change. About 20 lines of code. probably
hasty pelican
the time it takes for one port update still seems ridiculous to me... they take 3 months for a windows update, but a linux update takes like, what, 9 months?
scenic sleet
that's how it might seem, but VP is working on one version at a time, while BI is working on several
the 64bit port for Windows version was being worked on for a year or more (based on the first mentions by Dwarden)
it's just that when it was ready, those changes were merged in with everything else and released in 1.68
hasty pelican
oh really?
okay. I would have assumed they just work on 1 version, release it then start work on the next...
scenic sleet
few applications are developed in that way anymore, instead multiple features are worked on in parallel and those which are ready are merged into the master branch from which a new release is created
sly rover
Why all the negativity?
scenic sleet
a change in attitude from BI mostly, Dwarden used to be active here and in IRC when it came to the port, but these days he seems to be actively ignoring us. Back in late 2016 they said there would be more announced regarding the ports in 2017, but we're entering the fourth quarter of the year and there has been absolutely nothing at all said officially and no new updates this year. Now we've heard from a BI employee that the ports are currently being discussed internally, and though I'm reading into that, it doesn't sound positive.
I really want to be positive, but the atmosphere has changed
hasty pelican
new Sitrep, no info on ports
left fog
i would wait after 1.76 ...
short tulip
So we might get information on the Experimental Branch getting a patch after 1.76 comes out?
scenic sleet
sadly I'm travelling with work for the next two months, so I'll miss out on that
but maybe I'll have something to look forward to when I get back ๐
short tulip
Well, we don't see everything going on at BI and VP.
Dwarden said that we should wait until after 1.76 comes out for Sitreps about the Experimental branch. So that's all we can count on, like it or not.
scenic sleet
That's all we've ever actually asked for. A simple message saying that it's being worked on, that they still plan further releases after this one and they will try to get the gap reduce the gap betwen the Windows and Linux versions in future. ๐
molten pulsar
nice ๐
gritty sage
Can one of you linux/mac guys help me test a bug?
Can you check the output of sunOrMoon at these dates:
[2035,7,6,12,0]
[2035,7,6,4,25]
[2035,7,6,9,25]
[2035,7,6,17,25]
[2035,7,6,20,13]
[2035,7,6,20,26]
? This was probably broken in 1.70. But I don't have access to any previous builds anymore. But you are still on 1.6* where this should be not broken
gritty sage
Afaik legacy is always the previous build
wise canyon
legacy and legacyPorts is not the same
legacy branch (old build comparison of the second-last main build - requires access code of pattern: Arma3LegacyXYZ, where XYZ is the version, e.g. 150)
legacyPorts branch (old build compatibility for Linux / Mac ports - requires access code: Arma3LegacyPorts)
according to https://steamdb.info/app/107410/depots/ the legacyports branch contains 1.64
gritty sage
That's good then.. Now I only need a seperate PC with enough drive space where I can install that on
wise canyon
๐
you can have multiple branches on the same computer if you want to and have space available
gritty sage
Have no space ^^
wise canyon
๐
gritty sage
Maybe someone that has Linux or the legacy build available will help me and Dwarden and the ACE team get a bug fixed
scenic sleet
@gritty sage If no-one else has done it by then, I'll check tonight after work ๐
gritty sage
If anyone has done it you'd probably read it here
gritty sage
So same behaviour ๐ฎ Which version are you on?
molten pulsar
1.64 Linux port
gritty sage
These are the same values as in 1.74. Which doesn't match up with last comment from https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/sunOrMoon or https://github.com/acemod/ACE3/issues/5420
gritty sage
Only tested 1.74 and dev branch and current RC
molten pulsar
so they unintentionally fixed it? ๐
gritty sage
So either Linux 1.64 somehow has the same fault as 1.70+ or... It was always broken but no one noticed and features that were using that just randomly stopped working now.
hidden grail
Today at 16:00 UTC (18:00 CET) there will be Arma event on emp's server. All are welcome, so dont hesitate to join !
You can join event even if you use legacy branch on Windows, we wont judge you ๐
molten pulsar
the first few milliseconds my mind read "Today at 16:00 UTC (18:00 CET) there wil be an Arma update." ๐ฆ
covert quiver
and then you remind you its arma on linux