[DUAL GPU SYSTEMS] Performance Issues and Troubleshooting

[elder smelt]

oh

well I got 3 hdds, 2 sata ssds and 1 nvme. LS and OS are on the nvme, games are on my hdds

[left cape]

OS on ssd
Lossless and game on M.2

[clear sundial]

I'm running OS on a 10 year old samsung 850 evo and games + lossless on a NVME

[gloomy steeple]

No problems yet, but hint, the bandwidth of USB 3.2 gen2 or USB 4.0 is enough for stable generation of up to 300 frames per second for example?

[rain hull]

Depends on resolution, and the amount of generated frames isn't limited by PCIe bandwidth. Only the base framerate is

[gloomy steeple]

Indeed, I forgot to mention the resolution)). Suppose I take a vega 64 which will come out 300fps in 2k. Will I be able to get the same results as in the table?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MIWgCOcvIbezflIzTVX0yfMiPA_nQtHroeXB1eXEfI/htmlview

What is the most powerful graphics card on the list that supposedly makes sense for USB 4

[clear sundial]

So I decided to install an NVME for my OS drive and retry a clean Windows 11 LTSC and, once again, I can confirm that HAGS on makes my performance very unstable. I disable it and bam, performance is amazing once again.

I don't understand how it affects LSFG so much in my system...

It drops frames every 4-5s, both base and LSFG frames. I disable LSFG and the base FPS are stable. I disable HAGS and both LSFG and base fps become stable

[clear sundial]

Increasing max latency frames to 10 completely fixes it. So I do think either the NVME or Win 11 made LSFG finally fully stable on my system. It's perfect now. (It requires HAGS to be OFF though)

Gonna have to try testing longterm.

[left cape]

hags is pretty polarizing, wonder what makes it tick

[pure falcon]

Can someone do a pin what the final verdict or recommendation for this chat? Lost in the lore here

[left cape]

also i don't seem to notice a conceivable difference when changing max latency frames. is that setting more effective for amd gpu's?

[rain hull]

Tbh the difference it makes is typically very subtle to most people

Even latency added from high values is extremely small

[rain hull]

It's just a lotta varied stuff. Dranas' issues were fixed by using a PCIe riser (just reseating the GPU likely would have worked too) and disabling HAGS. Some other people's issues were caused by things like Nvidia's driver Low Latency Mode

[clear sundial]

I've never used a riser, you might be confusing me with somebody else. But yes HAGS is a big no no in my system

[clear sundial]

On win 10 i didn't notice any difference besides using 5. On win 11, 10 is the most stable value for me currently

[pure falcon]

So things I've probably already stuggled with in this long journey. thanks homie

[elder smelt]

yea that was me 😅

pcie riser somehow worked for some reason

but I don't think its just from that

but I confirmed that dual gpus can work on my system with that testing

1070 was way too weak from my testing

[left cape]

i should mention, i was having troubles with dual gpu LSFG in a few games.
they all happened to be game specific issues.

helldivers 2 ended up being a problem with windows auto hdr oddly enough

and battlefield 1, 5, and 2042 all have the same issue of selecting the incorrect gpu, regardless of what's set in windows and nvcp

most other games run flawlessly

[rain hull]

Seems to be a game engine thing

I have those issues with OpenGL

[brave mesa]

@onyx warren check im hier mein bruder, veleicht do kannst dein problem gefixen.. oder das ist was ich hoffe jajajajajajjaja

[onyx warren]

Has there been a solution to this?
That's too many messages for me to read through

[left cape]

yes unfortunately, only work around i've found is disabling secondary gpu, launching the game, then re-enabling it. pretty tedious. maybe there's some sort of script to automate those actions

but alas

i'm illiterate

[left cape]

idek if i can call this a workaround, i still have issues selecting a proper resolution and refresh rate when i do this

[rain hull]

#1328337747399938138 message

[onyx warren]

Welp, Riser isn't possible for me and the other stuff is already all deactivated

[brave mesa]

sadge kampfer

[onyx warren]

At this point I am 99% sure it has to be the CPU, since when I turn down the game from 4K to 1440p I get the exact same FPS

[left cape]

what kind of issues are you having?

[onyx warren]

Generally lower FPS, falling below 60 FPS where it never happened before

[elder smelt]

I don't think it was due to the riser I got

could have been something else related to it though

because it makes no sense for a riser to fix such a problem

[onyx warren]

I can't really think of anything else rather than the CPU just not being able to keep up with all the different tasks it needs to do at the same time now

[brave mesa]

what happen if u unplug der secondary gpu

and test with only 1 gpu

like before

to see if dual setup is causing the issue or not

[onyx warren]

It works fine with single

[brave mesa]

sehr schon!

guten job.

[left cape]

maybe try this? https://discord.com/channels/1042475930217631784/1330499937582055500

it did help me with helldivers 2 stutters in particular, but not necessarily lowering overall fps.

if you happen to be using an hdr display, try turning off windows auto hdr. having that setting on tanked my performance big time

[onyx warren]

I've had HDR off for a year or something now

[brave mesa]

Sad

[onyx warren]

Single GPU vs Dual GPU 💀

@rain hull lmao

[onyx warren]

I feel like this is a good indicator to say its the CPUs fault

[onyx warren]

Funnily enough this works really well for 1% and 0.1% lows

[left cape]

running 4k?

[onyx warren]

Yes

[left cape]

I found that aswell

[left cape]

pcie 4.0?

[onyx warren]

Yes x4

[left cape]

3.0 or 4.0

[onyx warren]

4.0 x4 PCH

[left cape]

word

yeah idk man it could be cpu

I've only tested 2k

im rocking an i5 11600k

comparable to your cpu I think

[onyx warren]

Might actually be a little worse than mine

I really can't think of anything else it could be but at the same time I'm just not able to confirm it

It's annoying asl

It's quite literally an upto 40-50% performance drop

[clear sundial]

Are you running a ryzen cpu by any chance

[onyx warren]

Yes

[onyx warren]

R7 3800X

[rain hull]

Low latency mode type jank

And/or vsync

[onyx warren]

Both are off

[clear sundial]

Once I have some time, I'll share all the things I've done to fix stutter / microstutter on my system, but you could try this: https://old.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/1ig9uwd/7800x3d9800x3d_stutter_fix/

It was definitely CPU side for my 7800X3D and it's now completely fixed

And you could also try this https://old.reddit.com/r/losslessscaling/comments/1i7xjd8/heres_my_settings_for_getting_the_best_results/ . Don't enable low latency mode for the games themselves though.

These 2 posts + disabling HAGS + disabling resizable BAR + disabling tpm 2.0 in BIOS were the things that made the biggest difference on my system

Currently, LSFG is basically flawless on my system with dual GPU. It sometimes drops, but it's so rare that I don't care anymore. I've spent so much time, and some money into this (tested with 3 different main GPUs, 2 different motherboards, 2 different OS drives, 2 different OS. A lot of bios tweaking, different drivers, different GPU configs.) Those settings were the ones that made the biggest impact, specially those 2 posts.

[clear sundial]

Here's the main optimization's I did. You can do more than this, but I think this will resolve 90% of the issues:

• Disable TPM in BIOS;
• Disable Resizable BAR and above 4G decoding in BIOS;
• Disable Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling (ATTENTION: This needs to be ON to use FSR 3.0 - Frame generation and DLSS 3 - Frame generation, but it will mess up the lossless performance)
• Set lossless scaling to high priority (I use process lasso to make it automatic)
• Follow the steps in this post: https://old.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/1ig9uwd/7800x3d9800x3d_stutter_fix/ (RYZEN CPU ONLY)
• Follow the steps in this post, with the exception of putting low latency mode ON in games (this caused me to have unstable performance): https://old.reddit.com/r/losslessscaling/comments/1i7xjd8/heres_my_settings_for_getting_the_best_results/
• Manually disable all MSI Afterburner sensors, even if you don't use its OSD and never leave scenes monitoring the system in the background. Watch this video: https://youtu.be/h6642umBeYM?si=NuORtr4xbfIeY0B5
• Place lossless scaling on the same SSD/ NVME drive as the games themselves, or on the fastest drive in the system;
• In dual GPU, if you use an AMD main GPU and NVIDIA frame gen GPU, install AMD DRIVER ONLY, no adrenalin and use nvidia control panel for everything else. I currently recommend AMD's 24Q4 PRO driver instead of 25.1.1 or 24.12.1 (more stable): Link: https://www.amd.com/en/resources/support-articles/release-notes/RN-PRO-WIN-24-Q4.html
• Download and install the chipset driver from the motherboard manufacturer's website rather than AMD's website, as it may have vendor-specific optimizations (do the same for the LAN driver or wireless driver if you use wireless).
• Lossless "Max frame latency = 10". Multi-display "ON", even on single screens. Everything else, use it to your liking.

[onyx warren]

Rebar actually off?
I thought that boosted performance a lot

Also I can't log into windows with tpm disabled @clear sundial

[clear sundial]

It does, but it will affect stability with dual GPUs. My theory is that Windows, being a very stable and extremely efficient OS, will nuke PCI-E bandwidth by using both GPU's VRAM and shuffling data around like a happy kid in a balloon party.

I always install windows with Rufus and it lets me bypass that mandatory artificial shenanigans, so I actually forgot about the normal user's experience, sorry 😦

You could try the other methods and see if it fixes it, otherwise you could either install a physical TPM module or reinstall windows with rufus and bypass tpm. There might be a way to make your current windows install work without TPM though, but I never googled it

[onyx warren]

I think you'd need to choose something specific when you first setup windows to be able to log in later without TPM

[clear sundial]

With rufus it's a checkmark when creating the bootable USB

The same applies to bitlocker

[onyx warren]

Oh wow, I basically only disabled Rebar and now I'm like somewhere in the middle between the single and dual GPU setup in terms of performance

[clear sundial]

It's good to let other people test in order to see if it's very specific to my system (AM5) or it helps other types of systems too

[onyx warren]

My GPU is now actually going to 95-99% instead of 65-70%

That's crazy, I love you

Obviously it's still not really "better" than with a single GPU but it's getting there

[clear sundial]

Please give me feedback if all the other settings help or not. I might create a post on reddit if it helps more people

[onyx warren]

I don't really have any others I can do rn, all the stuff in Windows are things I've already tired before

[clear sundial]

But you were spot on about it being a CPU issue, which was literally what I found out on my system. Not the CPU itself, but settings affecting the CPU and giving me microstutter. Specially the C-states one

[onyx warren]

TPM doesn't work unless I reinstall Windows (which I'm kinda too lazy to do rn tbh)

[onyx warren]

That was on auto for me, but I also don't have an X3D

[clear sundial]

Auto, is usually disabled from my testing and people on that post

Enabled is what you want to test

[onyx warren]

Oh ok, hold on. I thought it was supposed to on auto

[clear sundial]

Which is mindboggling weird, since C-states are usually recommended to be OFF because of lower performance with them enabled, but in my case and other people's in that post, Enabled was a lot better than disabled.

[onyx warren]

Might be placebo but I think it actually did boost the FPS just a little bit higher

[clear sundial]

Did you had microstutter before?

Like 60 base fps dropping to 59 and back to 60?

[onyx warren]

Not really micro, more like macro

[clear sundial]

That was the last setting I did to fix those dips. But since I did so many things, and more than one at the same time (to reduce time invested), that I'm not sure which of those were the biggest impact, but the C-states one was a big one in my system

[elder smelt]

Rebar used to drop my fps until I got that riser

Then it improved my fps dramatically with it on

super weird

[onyx warren]

We love Windows

[elder smelt]

Its an actual dumpster fire

Nothing is consistent with it

And I will never do mixed vendors next time

I'll probably look for a cheap 2nd hand amd card

[onyx warren]

That's what I did

But with a Nvidia Main card

[elder smelt]

Tbf thats probably a way better combo

Nvidia secondary is not great imo

[onyx warren]

Yea idk, doesn't feel like it

[elder smelt]

Rip

There has got to be a way to get a perfect dual gpu setup

But windows exists

Maybe in a decade we can try the linux port of ls

[onyx warren]

Penguin x Duck

[brave mesa]

https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-quietly-removes-official-windows-11-cputpm-bypass-for-unsupported-pcs/

[onyx warren]

Well that's that then

[brave mesa]

hahahaha

unlucky u

poor kampfer flexi

keep on kampfering eines tages du veleicht konten deine probleme gefixen

jajajajajajajajaja

[left cape]

re-bar and hags works great on my system for some reason
windows is so cool and awesome

[umbral berry]

How do you deal with chipset temp? I got dual gpu and dual m2 ssd on x570 motherboard, chipset temp goes up to 93 celcius. Gpu temps are totally fine.

[elder smelt]

same

[regal hamlet]

Is reBar not that good for dual gpu?

i’ve been trying to flash a modified bios to force enable it on my vega

but there were so many obstacles i gave up after a few days of trying

[elder smelt]

its no where near as good for older cards

but it could improve performance a bit

[left cape]

good for some, bad for others it seems

[rain hull]

Absolutely necessary if one GPU is Intel

But seems to cause problems for some

[cedar mango]

I have an RTX 3090 Ti. Is it worth it to put a second GPU (1660) to reduce latency ?

[onyx warren]

It always is if you have one on hand

[cedar mango]

I have one. I'm gonna try it!.

Man this program is a godsend.

[onyx warren]

?chart

[glass horizon]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MIWgCOcvIbezflIzTVX0yfMiPA_nQtHroeXB1eXEfI/edit?gid=1980287470#gid=1980287470

[onyx warren]

Here you can see if you can expect to meet your FPS requirements with your secondary card

[cedar mango]

So I will probably be better off with a RTX 4060

[onyx warren]

Keep in mind that using lower base FPS and x3 or x4 instead of higher base FPS with x2 and also lowering resolution scale will make the card be able to generate way more frames

[cedar mango]

I've read lots of reddit posts that no matter what you do, using a second GPU for LSFG will give you much less latency overall.

[onyx warren]

That's true

[cedar mango]

crazy!. I could just not upgrade my main GPU for some time if this is true!

[onyx warren]

Yep

But there are a lot of issues that might come with a dual GPU setup, I talk from experience

[elder smelt]

I second this

you might get it perfectly running but maybe not

won't know till you try

[cedar mango]

I'll try and report back!

[onyx warren]

I mean this was my first experience lmao

[cedar mango]

Someone at reddit posted a comparison showing that with dual GPU you get even better latency than with native DLSS3 !!

[elder smelt]

this is true

[elder smelt]

same lol

similar issue I guess

ehh not really

my gpu was maxed out but way lower fps

[cedar mango]

Ok, so I've connected the 1660 to test.

But how do I go about using this now?. Do I connect both HDMI to my monitor?

What do I select on Loseless Scaling?

[onyx warren]

?dual

[glass horizon]

#1323391346039455756 message

[left cape]

sort of off topic but how do i get to cool dual-gpu role?

[cedar mango]

So just to be clear?. If my GPU goes above 90% usage even with Loseless Scaling enabled, will I get any benefit by using a second GPU?

[onyx warren]

The LS GPU shouldn't go above 90%

The main one can go 99% no prob

[rain hull]

I'll ask a mod

[cedar mango]

I'll get a 4060 for LS

[brave mesa]

Undervolt both.

And use power saving features for when the second GPU is idling ( not playing games)

[onyx warren]

Pretty complicated for a role

[cedar mango]

I have my entire system watercooled

Had to buy every waterblock and radiator. Getting a second GPU is complicated. As I need to look for a VGA and the corresponding waterblock to add it.

But almost everyhone is saying that latency lowers with dual GPU no matter the load when using a single GPU.

[cedar mango]

dam...

[cedar mango]

And I just bought a 4060... nice work @onyx warren 🙂

I'll post my findings once I have it and start doing tests on it!

[cedar mango]

I'm only scared that I want to achieve 4K @ 120hz and my only available PCIe slot is PCIe 4.0 at 4x

I hope it's sufficient

[onyx warren]

Same for me. Works just fine

[cedar mango]

Oh really !?!

[onyx warren]

I can get up to 60/480

[cedar mango]

Oh thank you for telling me that!!

Do you think a 4060 will allow me to do 120fps on any game at 4k?

[onyx warren]

For sure. I have an RX 6600 which should be fairly similar and with 50% Res scale I can get 60/300 no problem

[cedar mango]

oh wow!!!

[onyx warren]

4060 is actually quite a lot better
In the chart the RX 6600 is rated for 135 FPS in 4K and the RTX 4060 for 175 FPS

[cedar mango]

Oh that's great!

How about the GPU load?.

How much does your 6600 is being used when doing framegen?

I'm trying to picture the noise level. I will order a 4060 waterblock to add to my rig

Once I have it ready I will send a picture!. What is your main GPU?

[onyx warren]

It's usually between 60 and 75% at 4K120.
And I also run some other programs on it at the same time like OBS, Discord and Youtube

[onyx warren]

3070 Ti

[cedar mango]

Amazing.

I still find this shocking. I just spend $300 instead of $2000 for a 4080

And I will have similar (if not better) performance.

NVIDIA really screwed everything up by stopping production of the 4000 series and doing a paper launch on the 5000 series.

[onyx warren]

You just have to hope everything actually works fine, Windows will try to make your life as hard as possible

I'm still not getting the performance I'm supposed to get after 2 weeks of tweaking because some stupid Windows shenanigans

[cedar mango]

Yes I imagine the problem could come from the fact that the FG GPU is the one that needs to output the signal

[onyx warren]

This was my first dual GPU experience before tweaking stuff

It completely handicapped my 3070 Ti

And now I'm somewhere in between these two even though I should be getting the results in the first pic

[cedar mango]

But your single GPU result is better

[onyx warren]

Yes that's the problem

It shouldn't be

But it is

Because you can see in the right pic the game doesn't actually want to use the whole GPU because it is bottlenecked somewhere else

And I have no idea where

[cedar mango]

Are you using WGC or DXGI ?

[onyx warren]

WGC

[cedar mango]

That may be the problem. Something similar happened to me with WGC with a single GPU

My 3090 Ti refused to boost with WGC

[onyx warren]

Yeah but this happens with or without LS.
Doesn't matter

[cedar mango]

ohh

[onyx warren]

It just happens on a system level

As soon as the second GPU is in my system the whole performance drops

[cedar mango]

Maybe you're GPU got downgraded on the PCIe port

[onyx warren]

No the GPU is doing just fine, both GPUs are getting the expected results in 3DMark

[cedar mango]

crazy

Maybe it is a driver compatibility between those two

[onyx warren]

At this point I feel like it can only be the CPU struggling since it has to transport all the frames of my 3 monitors from 1 GPU to the other the whole time

And the games basically just being CPU bottlenecked when the second GPU is in the system

[cedar mango]

What CPU do you have?

[onyx warren]

I managed to get more performance by disabling/enabling 2 settings in the BIOS but still not as it should be

[onyx warren]

Ryzen 7 3800X

[cedar mango]

Yeah it could be the CPU

I will run full tests as soon as my new card is here and share it with you

[onyx warren]

With the current prices I just don't wanna blow a few hundred bucks to see if that helps

[cedar mango]

Yes prices are crazy right now

Only way I could buy this is because nobody wants 8GB GPUs right now. So they are at MSRP prices, not even scalpers want these.

[onyx warren]

I have my eyes on a platform upgrade to AM5 with a 9800X3D but that hasn't even come down to MSRP yet

[cedar mango]

Yes. Same here.

[onyx warren]

Yeah, me gaming at 4K with my 8GB 3070 Ti

[cedar mango]

MSRP sounds more like Magically Set by Retail Fairytales

[onyx warren]

50€ over MSRP for the 9800X3D actually sounds like a good deal at this point

[cedar mango]

8GB, no matter which card are super cheap right now. Almost all uses requires more RAM, so cards with more RAM do not have MSRP anymore. It's 2X and sometimes 3X the original price. Impossible.

[onyx warren]

I was planning on maybe getting a 5080 but this generation just seems like a scam tbh

[cedar mango]

Just so you have an idea. I could get an RTX 4070 Ti Super for 600 3 months ago... today the only ones remaining are selling for $1300

Which is an absolute atrocity

[onyx warren]

Hmm I could get them new for 850€

[cedar mango]

Makes me feel like my card has more value now. I bought my 3090 ti for 1500. Now it cost $2000.

[viscid sinew]

@onyx warren

It

100% dlss problem

[onyx warren]

No it isn't

#💬│lossless-scaling message

[onyx warren]

So?

You got 2-3 FPS more with DLSS

That just means you went from a GPU Bottleneck to another Bottleneck after enabling DLSS

[viscid sinew]

Noo

Itis way more stable

Same thing here with dlaa

[low zodiac]

Interesting

[left cape]

thanks big guy

[low zodiac]

you should test with dlss on and LS not active to see if it was CPU bound

[rain hull]

3900x here

I don't have any (or a very small amount) added overhead from outputting video from the 2nd GPU

Not really sure what's going on in your case, did you check per core CPU usage and the usage + wattage of both GPUs?

[onyx warren]

The usage, temps and wattage are completely fine

[rain hull]

What does that mean

When you output video from the 2nd GPU does your render GPU draw far less watts?

I'd expect that to be the case anyway

[onyx warren]

It does draw less since the game in the same scenario uses 75% of the GPU instead of 95%

[rain hull]

Yes that's not completely fine

No CPU bottlenecks either I'll assume? Also what load and wattage does the 2nd GPU draw?

[onyx warren]

No CPU bottlenecks I'M AWARE OF.
I'm not 100% sure how CPU bottlenecks come to be, but usage is rarely above 50% on any core

[onyx warren]

This is while getting less than 60 fps somewhere

LS enabled

[rain hull]

Huh

[onyx warren]

Something's holding the main GPU back

[rain hull]

Yeah, I'd expect it to be a driver/motherboard setting or PCIe

[rain hull]

Do the same thing with 100x2

[onyx warren]

I can't measure the PCIe bus usage on the AMD card but RTSS tells me the 3070 Ti has less than 10% bus usage

[onyx warren]

This game specifically is hard capped at 60

[rain hull]

Oh

Try another game then ig

[elder smelt]

wait so your gpu has headroom (gpu usage is half) but it won't push anymore frames?

[onyx warren]

Yes

That is the problem

[elder smelt]

doesn't sound like a pcie issue imo

load should be 100% in that case

[rain hull]

#1328337747399938138 message

[rain hull]

Depends on which GPU is PCIe limited. But yeah, one of them should be at 100% if it's PCIe slot is maxed

[elder smelt]

could this be a driver related issue?

[rain hull]

In my case I had strangely similar issues with Low Latency Mode enabled with two Nvidia cards

[onyx warren]

60x2 and 100x2

[rain hull]

I'd start with a full DDU including setting reset

[rain hull]

Looks normal to me, what about single gpu

[onyx warren]

It's gotta be something with the CPU since the drops always happen in cases with either a lot of NPCs or when a lot of effects are happening

[onyx warren]

This is in a place with no NPCs so it works as expected

[rain hull]

Find a place with a lot of NPCs and do a single vs dual GPU comparison (no LS) with per core load tracked

[onyx warren]

That's what I did here

[rain hull]

Not showing per core load

I mean, monitor the load of every CPU core individually

[onyx warren]

I can tell you with confidence no core was above 70%

[rain hull]

Do it again

[rain hull]

Do single GPU

Well tbh this looks weird af

You're bottlenecked by nothing...

If you haven't tried enabling/disabling ingame and driver level low latency mode and vsync, DDU including resetting driver settings

[elder smelt]

in other words, something software sided

[onyx warren]

I've DDUed like 5 times in the last 2 weeks

And Vsync/Low Latency is off everywhere

[viscid sinew]

Good morning

With 4090 +4080s

[onyx warren]

Exact same spot. Im obviously still bottlenecked somewhere else but the FPS shot way up

[elder smelt]

you tried messing with any motherboard settings?

[viscid sinew]

Spider man 2 all max out

[onyx warren]

Yes, Rebar, TPM and C-something

[elder smelt]

cstates

[onyx warren]

Disabling rebar gave me like a 30% FPS boost

[elder smelt]

damn

[elder smelt]

so weird

that helped me too

[viscid sinew]

What is reber

[elder smelt]

at one point

[onyx warren]

I notice that with only one GPU it uses more VRAM

But that might be because everything now runs on that one

[onyx warren]

@rain hull

I think I'm gonna reinstall Windows on the weekend as the last resort

Anyone got a recommendation for something 'better' than regular Windows?
Like debloated or smth

[elder smelt]

I just hope it actually does something for you

[elder smelt]

ltsc is the best you can do

[viscid sinew]

Are thos good numbers

[elder smelt]

I switched to it and I couldn't be happier

[viscid sinew]

You did what

[elder smelt]

switch to windows 11 24h2 iot ltsc

[onyx warren]

Got a link? I can only find articles

[elder smelt]

https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links

[onyx warren]

Iso was just regular install with USB stick right?

[elder smelt]

yea the usual

rufus

[rain hull]

No clue tbh

LTSC is an option but I've seen it cause other issues

[elder smelt]

it has?

[onyx warren]

I just downloaded it it, putting it on my USB rn

[rain hull]

Tbh I can't remember very well. Probably worth a shot

[onyx warren]

At least I'll be able to deactivate TPM in bios with it

I hate reinstalling Windows so much, so many settings to change again

[elder smelt]

real af

takes me around 90min - 120min to reinstall fully

[onyx warren]

I always still find settings weeks later that I forgot to change back

[elder smelt]

same lol

[left cape]

what build did you switch from?

[elder smelt]

Normal w11 24h2

[left cape]

word, i haven't made the switch from w11 23h2 yet

[cedar mango]

Plain W11 + AtlasOS or Windows 11 LTSC 24H2 would be ideal.

Piece of advice. Build an USB disk with Hiren's BootCD (latest).
Then as SOON as you install windows and you're in desktop. Install Backupper Standard, create an image of System Partition (this will take all the windows partitions into a single file) and save the file in any part of your disk (preferrable outside the disk you used for Windows).
At any point in time if you mess something up, you can go back and restore windows to pristine operation by booting the PC with Hiren's BootCD and then once in Windows 11 boot disk, select Imaging Tools -> Backupper -> select your image from your disk. Presto!.

I have taken several images from all the stages I did for my windows and I simply can't mess it up now, if something breaks I simply go back to the stage I know was working perfect and whenever I need to "reinstall" it's as fast as booting Hirens and restoring (takes about 3 minutes tops) and I'm back in Windows at the exact spot I've saved.

Backupper lets you save files with names as you like, simply rename the file that the App saved and put it on any folder of your choosing. It's so easy to restore with this program and you absolutely do not need to buy it, the free version does everything. I bought the Pro because it lets you add an entry to the start menu that lets you boot straight into Backupper (using WinPE) so it removes the need for me to go and boot with the USB.

I totally recommend this method to those wanting to find the perfect combination of tools to work with windows without driving yourselves mad about the reinstalls.

[onyx warren]

Alright, tyvm 🙏

[brave mesa]

Why not ghost spectre windows 10 24h2 LTSC?

[elder smelt]

I've tried all these custom OS ones

I wouldn't recommend it

something will eventually be broken

ltsc is the safest

[tidal finch]

I highly recommend Ventoy instead of Rufus. Basically you install Ventoy into the USB drive and then you just drop iso files in the usb. So updating old iso files is easy as drag & drop.

[elder smelt]

I agree thats what I use for all my operating system isos

[tidal finch]

Also you can put multiple iso files in one usb drive and you'll see a list of them when you boot

[onyx warren]

Just installed it, looks good

[onyx warren]

First or second option?

[brave mesa]

For me id go with the LTSC only

[onyx warren]

What are the differences anyways?

[brave mesa]

the less frequent updates the better

main thing afaik is the LTSC has less frequent updates

thus less chance of it getting bricked

Though, Both are fine, Both avoid forced feature updates.

[onyx warren]

Oki les go

[brave mesa]

yipppeieee

[elder smelt]

2nd

iot ltsc

😭

[onyx warren]

Lmao

[onyx warren]

Why

[elder smelt]

nothing don't worry

you're fine

[onyx warren]

What's the difference 💀

I can still change it, I haven't set up anything

[elder smelt]

nah its like more longterm support only iirc

and something else but irrelevant

[onyx warren]

I also thought LTSC lets you log in with a local account

Got no option for that

[elder smelt]

what?

my one is local

[onyx warren]

Instead of a Microsoft account

[elder smelt]

you just don't use internet during the startup

and you can use local i think

[onyx warren]

Then lemme just switch to IoT anyways, will be like 5 more minutes

[elder smelt]

up to you

[onyx warren]

Alr, got the local Acc working too

Jesus, I hate the default look

[elder smelt]

yep time to start fixing

[onyx warren]

It's quite literally jarring

[brave mesa]

Yes, only that, but iirc it has more freq updates that could mis his windows

[elder smelt]

I've been fine with the updates thankfully

just seems far more stable than normal windows

and I used the christitus debloat tool

pretty safe

[onyx warren]

How did you get the Microsoft store?

It doesn't get installed on a local acc

[elder smelt]

you have to add it manually

theres a powershell command somewhere

[onyx warren]

I just did it by manually installing but now it just doesn't open lmao

[elder smelt]

theres a command you have to do

wsreset -i ?

i forgot

[onyx warren]

I made it way harder for myself for no reason lmao

Great, I don't have a Windows license now

[elder smelt]

nonono

get the activator

[onyx warren]

I'm so lost fr lmao

[elder smelt]

you'll get used to it 🪦

[onyx warren]

I'm slowly going blind without dark mode

[elder smelt]

get dark mode

hurry!

your gonna lose your vision soon

[onyx warren]

That's why I needed the actication

I can't choose it without

[elder smelt]

you can do it instantly

do what I said above

put that in powershell

[onyx warren]

Yes I did it now

[elder smelt]

good

activated?

[onyx warren]

Oh, thank god it's dark

My eyes

[elder smelt]

lightmode users are not human

[onyx warren]

Guys

I don't wanna be too happy for now

But FPS seem better now

[elder smelt]

yep

it was the same for me

broke my all time fps record

[onyx warren]

Although RTSS Overlay doesn't wanna show up for some reason

RTSS tells me I'm turning it on and off but it's nowhere to be seen

https://tenor.com/view/what-huh-confused-john-travolta-gif-16946746

[elder smelt]

tf

[onyx warren]

Now onto copying all my appdata back

[elder smelt]

so you think windows was the issue?

it definitely could

[onyx warren]

Very possible

[elder smelt]

hope its fixed

[onyx warren]

The FPS I just got seemed like the FPS I was getting with single GPU

I just couldn't open the RTSS Overlay

[elder smelt]

I swear I faintly remember an issue like this

not sure what fixed it

[onyx warren]

Well hopefully a restart

[onyx warren]

I think the DX runtimes aren't installed yet, that's why

Just got a warning after reboot

[elder smelt]

clean install it imo

[onyx warren]

Why is the standard Windows so god damn horrible

[elder smelt]

tell me about it

Istg ltsc has saved my soul

[onyx warren]

Can you by any chance look what the standard font setting in RTSS is?

Mine seem to have reset and it's some weird font

[elder smelt]

Unispace

[elder smelt]

this

didn't ping before 😅

[onyx warren]

Why doesn't that show up for me?

[elder smelt]

install it

find it online

I use unispace on lsfg

looks great

[onyx warren]

man

[elder smelt]

idk why its like that for you

it was perfect for me

did your windows install bug out or something 😭

that happens sometimes for me

when reinstalling windows

[onyx warren]

Idk man

That's why I hate reinstalling Windows

Such a pain in the ass

[elder smelt]

indeed

[onyx warren]

Hell yeah

[elder smelt]

👀

[onyx warren]

On par with the single GPU performance before

[elder smelt]

yay 1 fps faster

we're eating good today

[onyx warren]

I guess I'll try re-enabling resizable bar and see what happens now

[elder smelt]

hope for the best

[elder smelt]

rebar worked fine for me 😭

never using nvidia again

[onyx warren]

Pls no

[elder smelt]

did it work

[onyx warren]

Well damn

What the actual fuck was my Windows doing

[elder smelt]

peak asf

ltsc saves another soul

we should make a list of things that fixed people's problems

[onyx warren]

And now cranking the in-game settings actually pushes my GPU to 99% instead of the framerate to 40 💀

[elder smelt]

lets go

[onyx warren]

insane

[elder smelt]

@rain hull we win

its always windows

doing random shit

[rain hull]

Probably one setting hidden 50km in the depths

[onyx warren]

Funnily enough scaling LS with the hotkey don't work

[rain hull]

Launch ls as admin

[onyx warren]

Ah right

Probably reset that

[elder smelt]

nah its probably something worse

corrupted windows 👀

registry done for

[rain hull]

I wouldn't settle on that tbh

[elder smelt]

could have been anything tbh

windows related

I doubt 1 setting would do that

[rain hull]

Everything except for this one niche use case worked normally, that I can remember

[rain hull]

There's been multiple occasions where one setting has done it

[elder smelt]

hmm like what?

[rain hull]

One of the first people to run dual GPUs (Meatsafemurderer) found disabling threaded optimization in nvcp to have a huge impact

I found enabling low latency mode in nvcp to have a huge impact, in which there would be a seemingly invisible bottleneck on activating LSFG

[elder smelt]

driver related tbh but I can see it

[rain hull]

Plus a few who have found HAGS to have an impact on passthrough

[elder smelt]

if reinstalling drivers didn't help a clean reinstall of windows wouldn't make a difference

[elder smelt]

huge rip

hags seems to help a ton with lsfg

[rain hull]

Depends on system ofc

[onyx warren]

I turned it off tbh

[rain hull]

On mine hags on vs off is margin of error

[onyx warren]

But the problems I had with it might've also just been Windows problems?

[rain hull]

Pretty much

[elder smelt]

for me hags normally does nothing but at high gpu usage, hags makes lsfg responsive and actual playable at 100% gpu usage

[elder smelt]

yep

[onyx warren]

For me it makes everything else unresponsive at high GPU usage

[rain hull]

Opbush suggested that it could have been something genuinely wrong with your windows install. I suspect that it's a setting or app somewhere

[elder smelt]

so goofy

[onyx warren]

Although I'm pretty sure I had the same problem years ago on another Windows install

[elder smelt]

genuinely wrong as in it was a dirty install due to having a single card for so long that most configurations were made for that setup

clean install with 2 gpus installed might have dealt with that issue

[rain hull]

That I can remember, at one point enabling HAGS impacted video encoding when gamestreaming, making it unusable when the host PC's GPU hit max load

[onyx warren]

Yep, when I streamed to discord at high GPU usage discord completely froze and my friends couldn't hear me and my stream was a blackscreen

[rain hull]

Damn

[elder smelt]

rip

hags was unstable at some point too tbh

[rain hull]

Prob not an issue with dual gpus tho

[elder smelt]

it seemingly fixed itself later on with updates

cant do without it when using lsfg

[rain hull]

Not a surprise

[rain hull]

I'm curious

[elder smelt]

its the difference between a stuttery laggy unplayable mess and just high input lag but smooth af

[onyx warren]

This shit is so smooth now when it's stuck at 60 FPS without drops

[elder smelt]

better update that guide ravenger

troubleshooting area

[onyx warren]

I would cry

But I won't

Because I'm a man

And men don't cry

[elder smelt]

🗣️🔥

I gotta figure out why a riser fixed mine though

[onyx warren]

Lost some data for some apps that stored them in some weird places on the C Drive but I'm willing to take that

[elder smelt]

so stupid

[onyx warren]

At least my fix was free

At least money wise

Sanity not so much

[elder smelt]

same here but both

and in the end I realised something

my 1070 was too ass for lsfg

[onyx warren]

I was 80% on the way to buy a 9800X3D because of this shit

Imagine 💀

[elder smelt]

💀

I need a 5700xt

I must join this club

[onyx warren]

My LS profiles are gone

[elder smelt]

sanity lost, profiles lost, data lost

[onyx warren]

FPS gained

[elder smelt]

all that matters

[onyx warren]

That's the most important of them all

[elder smelt]

without a doubt

oooooof 1600 messages

this is gonna be the biggest forum post soon

so far 3 problems solved I guess

dranas

me

and you

might be more

[onyx warren]

And all of them were different

[elder smelt]

yup

[onyx warren]

Technology really is a blessing huh

[elder smelt]

and a huge pain

[onyx warren]

https://tenor.com/view/shannon-sharpe-suit-meme-man-wearing-suit-meme-suit-slideshow-sparkles-and-champagne-gif-26378137

Why is my pc booting for over a minute already?

[elder smelt]

💀

was your install bugged after all

or is it fast boot

[onyx warren]

Restarted it again during boot and now it boots in seconds

[elder smelt]

cursed

[onyx warren]

I mean I will still get 40 fps from time to time but now its actually the GPUs fault

[vivid zealot]

Overclock the sheet out of the memory on that 3070 ti bad boi +500 but I bet you get it to 750.

[onyx warren]

I undervolted it because temps with dual GPU

[vivid zealot]

Ah ok, the mem temp do get high like.

[versed knoll]

How did you manage to get 40-50 fps in ZZZ with a 3070 ti??

[onyx warren]

In fights

[rain hull]

Found an issue. Single GPU

Dual GPU

How I fixed said issue:

No joke, I wouldn't be surprised if those who went so far as to reinstall Windows could have just done this

Now the question is what setting caused it

[onyx warren]

[brave mesa]

restorting to default Nvidia settings?

[rain hull]

yup, just resetting nvcp

[brave mesa]

Nice

[left cape]

ez clap

[left cape]

was this an issue in a particular game

or a few others too

[rain hull]

only tested 1, and fixed the issue in 5 minutes

rip

[elder smelt]

Dual GPU performance issues and troubleshooting

[brave mesa]

what was it before

i forgot

[elder smelt]

performance issues when using dual gpus... or something

[mental peak]

Hey everyone, I'm gonna run a dual GPU setup very soon with a 4070 windforce as my graphics gpu and a 4060 windforce as my ls GPU. I have a 5950X for the cpu.

My 4070 runs on the x16 pcie 4.0 port of my motherboard but if I put the 4060 into the second GPU port (a x8 pcie 3.0), the x16 will become x8 instead of x16. Is that something I should be worried about? Any performance differences or losses?

[elder smelt]

maybe a little performance lost, it should be very little though

gen 4 x8 is just gen 3 16x

should be good

[onyx warren]

Just noticed I drop like 30 FPS when I'm watching a 4K video on another screen while playing a game

[mental peak]

Uh I just checked for spacing and if I put the 4060 in, the 4070 fans will be blocked because it's facing downward

[elder smelt]

yea I'd expect temps to be higher

unless you do a vertical mount or something

[elder smelt]

super tight

[mental peak]

Yeah I'm worried about it

[elder smelt]

riser is the only solution if you want to do it imo

its impossible otherwise from what I see

[onyx warren]

That's basically how it looked for me

Looked way worse than it actually was in the end

[elder smelt]

damn

what are you guys doing to your poor gpus 😭

I hope it works though

[mental peak]

My 4070 runs at 60C max

[onyx warren]

I have basically exactly 1cm of space between the cards

And my 3070 Ti never goes into the 70s

[mental peak]

Even if I do that, the case is too small to put it anywhere (4000D case)

[rain hull]

Put the 4070 in the middle PCIe slot

It'll run 4.0 x8 in either slot

That way its fans aren't blocked. Also a smaller 4060 in the top slot would mean more space between the cards

[mental peak]

So the 4070 will have more room

[rain hull]

A lot more

[mental peak]

Unfortunately i got the 3 fans one

[rain hull]

Can't move it to middle slot?

[mental peak]

I'd rather have the 4070 have more room below it than the 4060

Since it's gonna be the graphics gpu

[rain hull]

yea, if you put a 4060 5mm below it it's going to be doing a lot worse than if you move it down a slot

Either way, both the 4060 and 4070 are pretty power efficient, and an undervolt should be enough to solve potential temp issues regardless

[mental peak]

So I moved it, then the 4060 will go above that when it arrives

[mental peak]

I've heard a lot about undervolting, what is it and how do you do it? Is it that intersting in terms of fps per watt? Any videos you know?

[elder smelt]

undervolting is reducing the power the gpu uses while maintaining or even increasing the performance of the card

so pushes higher or the same clocks while using less power

[onyx warren]

Definitely undervolt with dual GPUs

[elder smelt]

I do it anyways with a single card

its beneficial all round

saves my ears

[onyx warren]

I lost like 1-2% performance with it tbh

[elder smelt]

I gained performance

but amd undervolting is quite different with rdna 3

its super simplistic but limited too

[mental peak]

I'm definitely interested then, should I do it on my 4070 right now then? I'm assuming it's in NVIDIA control panel

[onyx warren]

No, Afterburner

Usually YouTube has the best presets for all different GPUs

[elder smelt]

best as a reference

some can be unstable

[rain hull]

Undervolting is just reducing the voltage your GPU uses while maintaining the same core clock. Stock, the GPU typically uses higher voltage than it needs to guarentee stability, which leaves a lot of room to improve on temps and power draw. You can tweak it yourself with something like MSI Afterburner. Here's a solid guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPR06CxysMw

[elder smelt]

like my undervolt is super low compared to vast majority of 7900xts due to silicone lottery

someone using my settings might crash hard

[mental peak]

Following the guide now 👍

[rain hull]

This looks pretty good by the way, should be easy to fit the 4060 in

And the 4070's temps shouldn't be increased much by adding a second card since the 4070's in the bottom slot

[mental peak]

Although I'm benchmarking now for the undervolting, the sound it makes is much worse

I guess it's much closer to the power supply so it has less room

[rain hull]

Tbh at that point it might just be acoustics and not it being harder to cool. Not sure tho

Adding the 4060 definitely won't make things quieter tho

[elder smelt]

last time I added a dual gpu very close to my main gpu, sound got way worse and temps slightly too

[rain hull]

I sit 4 meters/17 feet away from my PC so noise isn't an issue

[elder smelt]

might be pushing fans harder due to less space

so it achieves the same cooling

[rain hull]

Tbh maybe

[elder smelt]

thats what it was for me

[rain hull]

Makes sense

[versed knoll]

Yes, you split up the maximum fps your GPU can transfer between the programs/screens

Even if I opened two instances of doom, each would get like 70-ish fps because the maximum my 6600m can transfer at pcie 3.0 x4 is like 170 fps

[onyx warren]

Ah, that's wild. So a 2160p60 video on a second screen is basically 💀

[versed knoll]

Yeah at that point just run it on your main GPU

Not worth the passthrough loss

[onyx warren]

Although it's not the GPU that maxes out

It'll sit at like 70-80%

[mental peak]

It'll be in another room in that case, the undervolting is amazing btw, can't believe I've never done it before

In Helldivers 2 I'm getting almost half the power draw for the same performance, insane stuff

[mental peak]

I use to draw around 210-220 watts, after undervolting, I'm drawing around 120-140 watts. Running x3 with ls on top of that

[versed knoll]

With my RX 5700 XT I was able to chop away like 80W of power consumption while only losing like 10% of the performance

[clear sundial]

So Resizable Bar actually gave you performance? Pretty interesting! I'll retest it again on this new Win 11 install.

Also @rain hull I've tried HAGS again yesterday and I can 100% confirm it completely destroys performance on my system, even with a new Win 11 install. It even drops to 55 (base)-100 (LSFG) fps randomly. It's very similar to how much performance I lose by swapping the display cable to the rendering GPU and leaving the LSFG GPU without a cable. 💀

[elder smelt]

what gpus do you have?

[clear sundial]

Currently 4070 TI super + 4060 Ti

[wide ridge]

With Dual LSFG, KingdomCome Deliverance2 makes crush while launching. I really want to know KCD2 is not supporting dual GPU. i want to know who successfully launch KCD2 with Dual GPU.

[elder smelt]

weird both cards do support hags 🤔

[clear sundial]

And with my previous setup, it was the same 7900 XTX + 4060 ti

[elder smelt]

no idea

has anyone else tried dual nvidia with hags?

nvm

amd + nvidia is the same for you

have you ever reinstalled windows?

[clear sundial]

Yes, I was running Win 10 LTSC for several months and recently (2 weeks ago) I fresh installed win 11 LTSC

Even with a brand new boot drive

[elder smelt]

damn

does rebar not work for you either on the new install?

[clear sundial]

I didn't test it yet, I had it disabled by default, after trying a lot of things to remove stutter on win 10 ltsc

[elder smelt]

hopefully it works for you when you try it again

[clear sundial]

So far, at least on Dragon Age Veilguard I didn't notice any performance degradation by enabling REBAR. I did see some weird artifacts after playing for a while though, but it could be coincidence

It didn't seem like the usual "bad OC" kind of artifacts, and reverting to stock values didn't do anything. I'll see if I can reproduce them again

[onyx warren]

OK, so to reiterate on the Resizable bar thing.
While I do get generally higher FPS while standing still or not doing much I get WAY more and WAY deeper FPS drops with it enabled.
While with it off I get drops into the 50s I get way more drops and also they can go into the 30s or even 20s in more active scenes.
So I'll keep it off

[clear sundial]

So far no big issues with it enabled on Diablo IV too, but both games are whitelisted by NVIDIA. I would probably disable it on AMD if I played a lot of different games though.

[brave mesa]

i like how this is going to be the togo suggestion from now on to solve issues we dont have a solution for 💀

stinky windows

[quasi reef]

Sup, i just fixed the issues i was having with extremely low fps and choppiness with a 4090 & Rx 6750xt

The solution was to return the RX 6750XT and upgrade everything (i think the motherboard supporting pcie 4.0 x4 instead of pcie 3.0x4 made the biggest difference here)

As im playing on a 4k 240hz oddysey neo g8

[onyx warren]

Oh yeah, 4K240 on 3.0 x4 is a no no

[quasi reef]

Also got myself a 9800x3d to replace the 5950x

And a RTX 4070ti super

To get rid of any potential issues

As with the 6750xt my dlss options just dissappeared from my games

But was able to somehow still use nvidia FG

Tried everything since changing positions of the gpus to DDU drivers

[onyx warren]

AMD as a secondary shouldn't make DLSS options unavailable

[quasi reef]

Install at different times

[quasi reef]

Thats what i tought

But was constantly an issue for me

So returned the AMD gpu

Also lost the ability to use all the NVIDIA features like RTX HDR or super resolution

(I know AMD has equivalent settings and even tried them but was not fully convinced)

[onyx warren]

That makes sense, since your monitors would be connected to an AMD GPU

[quasi reef]

Yeah, but now i have every nvidia settings aside from DSR thx to stupid DSC

4070ti super was able to get 445 fps frames generated at 4k

So more than enough for 4k 240hz

Where can i upload the 4070ti super results? I know there is a list of second gpu perf list

And i imagine a dual 4090 combo to be in the 550-600 generated frames, let alone a dual 5090 setup

😅

[onyx warren]

Tbf my rx6600 can do 60/480 at 4K

[brave mesa]

thats cope

FOLEXI-CHANN

nahh just joking with you

it can run

[bright kiln]

Your 2nd GPU is using PCIE 4 x4 now? What's the highest fps you can get at x2 (specify base or generated fps)?

[versed knoll]

Gather them by resolution, input and output fps and show them to @rain hull

[versed knoll]

An nvidia GPU being the one rendering the game will still have access to DLSS even if the display GPU is an AMD one

[rain hull]

With X2?

[clear sundial]

Still waiting for my 7900 xtx and 4080 super data to show on the spreadsheet 😅 Ravenger must be busy though.

He might be getting a lot of data from a lot of different people, so hopefully we get an updated spreadsheet soon ™️

[rain hull]

It's not x2 tho 😭

I guess I could put an honorable mention there lol

[clear sundial]

Ah but wouldn't the unlocked multiplier be basically the same, or is it just very "inflated" compared to x2?

[rain hull]

Very inflated

[clear sundial]

Gotcha. I also thought the results were too good to be true

[rain hull]

X2 results in way lower max capability

[onyx warren]

I can do 4K 120/240 max for 2x but 60/480 with higher multipliers

[versed knoll]

I can push 20/400 with my RX 6600M at 1440p

Even though the real limit is 115/230 for it

[rain hull]

Yea, something might be able to do 100x2 but 75x3, maybe 65x4, so higher multipliers inflate numbers

[clear sundial]

I'm also thinking the 4060 ti might be seriously underpowered. It's struggling to run RTX super resolution at quality 3 and 4. On brave it drops a lot of frames, on firefox it doesn't, but it doesn't feel like 60 fps video. Very strange.

GPU usage sits at 50%.

[clear sundial]

It's fine, I just severely misunderstood how the performance scales. Now I understand, thanks guys ❤️

[clear sundial]

Yup, I'm 100% sure the random microstutters I'm having is because of the 4060 ti. I just played the game's I was having the microstutters with lossless dropping 1 fps randomly and it stopped happening when I was running LSFG on my main GPU.

I still have the 4060 TI installed, so I'm still running PCI-E 4.0 x8 on my main GPU. RTX super resolution runs flawlessly too.

I'm guessing the 288GB/s memory bandwidth and the low pixel rate of the card is just too much for 4K LSFG completely STABLE.

I'm betting, besides fp16 performance, pixel rate is a big metric for LSFG frame generation, which explains why the 6600 is so good for the price (159,4 Gpixels /s) vs (121.7 Gpixels/s) from the 4060 Ti

the 7900 XTX also has 479.6 GPixel/s vs the 443.5 GPixel/s from the 4090, which could be a factor in why they're so close LSFG performance wise

[clear sundial]

This could also explain why the 6600 is identical to the 7600, since they have basically the same pixel rate, while the 7600 technically has double the FP16 compute, and why the lower end 3000 series scales so bad with LSFG (extremely low pixel rate)

[quasi reef]

Same here, the bottleneck is the pcie i think

Max real fps i can get is 220fps at 4k

[onyx warren]

No, that is actually pretty normal.
The higher the base FPS the more compute power LS needs/uses

[quasi reef]

If i enable the x2 my base fps drop

And that is expected

[onyx warren]

Yeah, no that's not what I'm getting.
Mine stays the same

Only when I go really high, like 10x the base FPS drops

[quasi reef]

But i can get to low 300 fps by using 60 base and x5

I have a lot of drives

Some people said that could be the issue

And can get low 600 fps generated at 1080p max

Tbh it makes no sense to want higher fps as the 4k res caps at 240hz (no monitor at the moment that go beyond 240hz at 4k)

I ordered the acer predator dual oled monitor

So can run at 4k 240 and 1080p 480

I want to experience those 480 fps 😎

[onyx warren]

I can reliably run 4K240 with my rx6600 if I do 60/240 or 80/240.
I can also do 120/240 but then the rx6600 has like 98% usage and that doesn't feel great

[quasi reef]

Yeah, and thar could be the bandwith limiting the fps you can get

But rn it is more than enough

[onyx warren]

I don't think it's the bandwidth, that's just how much that card can do

[quasi reef]

If i drop the quality of the generated frames i can get quite a lot more than low 300s fps at 4k

[onyx warren]

4K240 at 2x for a 150€ card is insane imo

[quasi reef]

When that happens my power usage on the second gpu is pretty low

While being 95% used

The 4070ti super i mean

If only i had the pci running at pcie 4 x8 instead of pcie 4 x4 i bet i will be getting way more performance

[versed knoll]

We need someone to test that

[versed knoll]

The RTX 3060 12GB has a similar pixel rate to the GTX 1660 Super

[elder smelt]

hmm I can get a 6600xt for around 150usd, thoughts?

[versed knoll]

Don't even put thought into it, buy is what my brain would tell me if I were you

[clear sundial]

That's actually pretty interesting. I had no idea that the 1660 super had specs so juicy compared to the newer low end nvidia cards. Good to know 🙂

[versed knoll]

We can't digest the thought of my RTX 3060 12GB is giving similar LSFG results to Ravenger's GTX 1660 Super

[clear sundial]

Indeed! I always thought it was very weird that Pascal could run LSFG decently, albeit worse than newer gens. It has very little FP16 compute, but it can still deliver usable results at 1080p and 1440p, which I always thought was very strange.

It has very decent pixel rate, so that could be a factor

But like you said, we need more testing and data sharing from the community in order to know for sure

[rain hull]

Welp, guess I know what to put in the chart

[neon sleet]

Hey guys, have you found a fix for the slight drop while using LSFG 3.0 ? Since I am on dual GPU (3060ti + 1660S), the generated frames drop to 59 from time to time (too often I'd say). It is not big, but very noticeable. I play in 1440k native, tried dlss 50 and 66%, but still happens. It seems to not happen that often in 1080p tho. The 2nd gpu is on PCIE 2 4x (Mobo limitation), maybe it is the issue ?

[elder smelt]

gen 2 x4 is incredibly slow

I tried it on my 1070 once and the results were terrible

can you do any higher speeds?

[neon sleet]

The 1660s support 16x 2.0 but my 2nd port is only 2.0 4x since the 1st port is for the 3060ti.

[elder smelt]

so its a chipset pcie slot?

[neon sleet]

yep ... I tried OC the 1660s but no chance

[elder smelt]

rip

no other pcie slots available?

[neon sleet]

nop, it a mddle level mobo, the MSI B450 gaming max

[tidal finch]

Wait, 1660 Super only supports 2.0 x16? I thought they supported 3.0

[neon sleet]

It is what GPUz tol me

[elder smelt]

wait

is your speeds capped in motherboard bios?

it should be gen 3 no?

b450 is gen 3 is it not

what cpu do you have?

[neon sleet]

GEN 3 for the primary PCIE port

[elder smelt]

is your 3060ti not in it?

[tidal finch]

Some B450 boards do use 2.0 on the 2nd "x16" slots

[neon sleet]

I have R5 5600X

It is, it's the 1660s that is in a 4x 2.0

[elder smelt]

mine does but I have another slot that splits my cpu lanes to x8 x8

[tidal finch]

Yeah 2.0 x4 is too slow. That translates to 4.0 x1 which is yikes

[neon sleet]

maybe I should check the bios extensivly

[elder smelt]

for the second slot you can't do anything

but if the primary card is gen 2, something is wrong

[neon sleet]

But it works well, except for the micro drops ...

primary card is Gen3, the secondary gen 2

[elder smelt]

ok got it

for your case I don't think anything is possible

[tidal finch]

If your mobo supports bifurcation you might split the main x16 slot by two x8

[elder smelt]

you only have a chipset pcie slot left and thats gen 2 x4 like me

[neon sleet]

I read that having a 2nd gpu downgrade my primary ports to 8x ... I guess this mobo is not made for what I want

[tidal finch]

Or might be cheaper to buy a new mobo 😄

[neon sleet]

exactly

[elder smelt]

😔

[neon sleet]

If I don't run two Gpus I got screen freeze since FF7R eat all my VRAm (texture in med)

maybe there will be a fix for that

[elder smelt]

that sucks

[neon sleet]

It is fine, I could play at 1080p, but it hurst my eyes after enjoying native 1440p haha

anyway, thanks for the help and supports guys

[elder smelt]

but we couldn't do anything for you 😔

[versed knoll]

Going from pcie 3.0 x4 to pcie 2.0 x4 dropped my RX 6600M's performance by a 38%

[elder smelt]

you know I kinda expected worse ngl

still horrible but yea

[onyx warren]

Try 1.0

[versed knoll]

It was crippling for sure, but gives me hope for the people with a spare rx 580 and a b450 motherboard with pcie 2.0 x4 that want to max out their 144 hz 1080p

[onyx warren]

Btw funny thing I just noticed in ZZZ.
When I play the game for a while and had lots of scenes where my FPS drops (like Boss fights) my FPS afterwards in non-GPU bound scenarios will permanently be lower until I restart the game

Basically starting up the game: 100 FPS in Lumina Square
After fighting some bosses: 75 FPS in Lumina Square
Restarting the game: 100 FPS again

[elder smelt]

☠️

[onyx warren]

Kinda like FPS drops degrade my CPU until I restart the game

Weird af

[elder smelt]

weirdest thing I've heard ngl

is it like caching something

[tidal finch]

Thought that was an Intel thing

[onyx warren]

I already noticed this before the Windows reinstall but I thought I was just tripping since I had all those other issues as well

[elder smelt]

now we need to find out what causes that and fix it too 😊

yay!

[onyx warren]

I'm also not sure if it's just the one game or in general, since it's the only one I regularly drop frames in

[elder smelt]

seems like the only game you play too 😭

[versed knoll]

Lumina Square moment

Though it's the only part of the game where I drop from 90 fps to like 50

[onyx warren]

The last few days yes, since it's the best for testing rn because of the FPS fluctuations

[onyx warren]

I usually don't drop below 60 now after the reinstall.
It's always between 65 and 105

[humble frigate]

Hello
I just got myself a RX6400 as a second GPU. followed the guide about choosing GPUS the right places, disabling stiff in nvidea control panel. but my frames are way lower than what im used to. could be the PCIe lanes? i have a B650-tuf and i think i should be good according to the website? had a look in the bios to see if thers anything to configure but couldnt see anything i would relate to the PCIe. any suggestions?

[tidal finch]

Most B650 boards have 4.0 x4 slots or higher as a secondary slot so you should be good but if you want to check either visit your mobo's website and check your mobo's specs or you can use GPUz

[humble frigate]

Should I disable things like "resize bar" or "above 4g decoding"? I don't understand why I get 33 fps in games that would normally give me 60

tried disabling them and TPM since i found another post about it. didnt seem to do anything

[humble frigate]

this is what it says on the website.
so i cant use 2 gpu right? since it says 1*16 slot and 2x1 slots

[tidal finch]

You have a 4.0 x4 slot for secondary so you should be fine

[humble frigate]

well that nice to hear. though i still only get 33 fps when im used to 60+

[elder smelt]

use gpuz

[tidal finch]

Is your monitor connected to RX 6400?

[elder smelt]

check what the card is running at

[humble frigate]

yes it is

[elder smelt]

could you screenshot the entire page?

it should show pcie specs

[tidal finch]

What are you getting FPS wise without LS and after you activate LS?

[humble frigate]

testing ffxiv 4k right now. 60 fps before

33 after

[elder smelt]

its definitely fine here

it could always be windows but we should try to cross out the other things first

[elder smelt]

what about your res scale?

[tidal finch]

I'd enable MSI afterburner/RTSS overlay and check both GPU usages in game to diagnose the problem.

[tidal finch]

Also check which gpu is set in LS just in case

[humble frigate]

huh it seems like FFxiv is FPS locked somewhere to 60. could that have anything to do with my issue?

[tidal finch]

Oh you might have global fps cap in RTSS

[humble frigate]

yeah tought that as well, but no, not the case

ill try CP

[humble frigate]

checked, it is 🙂

[humble frigate]

how do i get all the nice info up? never used rtss before so far i only have FPS

huh CP 77 fps before LS and again 33 after

[tidal finch]

Here is a 2 minute video that explains it perfectly -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbh5O4abiwY&t=15s

[humble frigate]

something is off.
before LS rx6400 uses just above 80% and 3080TI uses 44%
After LS RX6400 goes to 100% and 3080TI goes to 22%

[tidal finch]

What % of usage are you getting in the desktop for RX 6400?

[elder smelt]

wtf

[tidal finch]

%78 is really high when you're not using it

[elder smelt]

is something else using the 6400?

[tidal finch]

Make sure to select 3080Ti in Windows Settings > System > Display > Graphics > Default graphics settings

[humble frigate]

this is correct right?

[tidal finch]

This would be the next step imho

[humble frigate]

this is on deskktop

[tidal finch]

%19 is a lot better than %78

Thought maybe some program was using RX6400 and that would explain the higher usage

[rain hull]

What res and target framerate

[humble frigate]

4k 60 fps before ls and then boost to 120

[tidal finch]

Are you using HDR by any chance?

[humble frigate]

i am

[rain hull]

What if you set resolution scale in LS to 50%?

[rain hull]

HDR increases the load of LSFG a lot

[tidal finch]

HDR uses a lot more gpu power but I don't have any idea how would an RX6400 handle that

[rain hull]

In the chart I estimated that it could handle around 4k120fps. Broad estimate though, was going off of lsfg2 data too

[tidal finch]

Wonder how much HDR would reduce that

[rain hull]

Probably by about 20%

But in this case it's maxing out at like 35x2

[tidal finch]

Lower 3080Ti usage does not make sense here.

Yeah edited that since lower render gpu usage doesn't make sense

[rain hull]

Definitely does make sense, bottlenecked by second GPU

[humble frigate]

that helps. just a min booting another game to test some more

[rain hull]

Well, my 1660S data on the ?chart checks out

[glass horizon]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MIWgCOcvIbezflIzTVX0yfMiPA_nQtHroeXB1eXEfI/edit?gid=1980287470#gid=1980287470

[tidal finch]

Oooh, the 2nd gpu is so overwhelmed that it can't even deliver frames from the render gpu.

[humble frigate]

cyberpunk RX 100% load and 3080 50% load 44 fps. 25% res scale in LS

[rain hull]

Try 1440p at 100% res scale too, to see if the 6400 performs as expected there. No 4k data was collected for it, and if it performs as expected at 1440p, we can conclude that it's just not enough for 4k

[rain hull]

Dang

[onyx warren]

Happy I went for the 6600 now

[rain hull]

Way worse than expected ngl. If it underperforms at 1440p too then it's probably a driver setting or similar

[tidal finch]

Dang. RX is shittin 🧱

[rain hull]

Something like hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling might be the culprit in that case.

If it handles ~100x2 at 1440p with 100% res scale though, it's probably just not fit for 4k

[humble frigate]

fuck me. must be the RX. as soon as i go 1440P the TI performance goes way up

even with HDR

[rain hull]

Does the 6400 handle 100x2 at 100% res scale?

[humble frigate]

jumps around a bit, 77 fps

[rain hull]

Hmmm

Disable hags

[elder smelt]

hags doesn't even exist for the 6000 series so definitely try disabling it

[onyx warren]

https://tenor.com/view/hag-snow-white-witch-demoted-to-hag-ugly-witch-gif-16886810

[humble frigate]

whats hags

[elder smelt]

flexing on us

[tidal finch]

hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling

[humble frigate]

oh already did that

[tidal finch]

OOF so it's getting 77fps instead of 200

Can you also try without HDR in 1440p

[onyx warren]

Instead of 100

[humble frigate]

well let me be clear 77 is LS on before boost. it goes to 120 with frame gen but i cant see higher since my monitor doesnt go higher

[onyx warren]

Turn sync mode to off (tearing allowed) in LS

[tidal finch]

Oh he meant base fps. Then it's less bad

[onyx warren]

And no Vsync in driver or game settings

[humble frigate]

vsync off HDR off

can get 100 fps in the menu of CP but its 77 on the streets

[onyx warren]

Does activating LS drop that?

Close to 2k btw

[humble frigate]

so just restarted the game to be sure. hitting 101 fps now

[tidal finch]

101/202 ?

[humble frigate]

no 101/164

[tidal finch]

Oh so it's maxing out still

[humble frigate]

yeah both gpu are like 95% now

[onyx warren]

With HDR it would make sense, without meh

[versed knoll]

Can't go wrong with one of those or an rx 5600 xt

[rain hull]

Try increasing max frame latency I'm LS

[humble frigate]

well i went with the RX6400 since my understanding was, looking at the sheet, it should be good enough since it should have gone above 120 fps. didnt realise 4k wasnt tested or that HDR wasnt enabled(didnt even know HDR would have an impact)

[rain hull]

Disable HDR and try 4k again. It might just be my estimate being incorrect (which case, I am very sorry)

[onyx warren]

All your fault

[elder smelt]

which would make this the most active forum thread in the server 🗣️