#Cage Mechanics, Marble Balance Mage Teleports and Cards

234 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

zealous olive
#

First of all, I just want to say I really love this game and appreciate all the hard work going into it. I’m fully invested in testing and providing feedback, hoping this helps refine the balance a bit.

Cage System:
When a Bunny gets captured and placed in a cage (if there even is one nearby, since there aren’t many), it currently takes way too long to free themselves when alone. It should take time, yes, but not excessively long. Maybe it should not be possible to get out without a lockpick or a bunny helping.On the other hand, for the Mage it’s quite punishing because of the Marble mechanic — the reaction window is incredibly small, probably the harshest skill check in the whole game. A slightly more generous timing window or a slightly larger skill area would make it fairer.
Also, every bunny and their parents have at least 2 bikes at all times and its fairly easy to troll the mage with that. Id suggest to make them less commen or increase the inventory space bikes need.

Looting & Wiggle:
When the Mage picks up a Bunny, the wiggle mechanic feels too strong. The Mage needs to loot first (around 2 seconds), then insert a card — but it often fails. Sometimes you must loot twice before an item drops, and by then the Bunny usually escapes. At higher MMR (around 2k), it’s almost impossible to loot twice, insert a card, and still manage to cage them. Solution: let me Stick my card inside the bunny regardless of its inventory space.
I also realized that there are a lot (too many) deadspots the mage can not reach while a bunny freely can do an objective.

Mage Teleports & Ticketman RNG:
Mage teleports are heavily countered — most lockers have marbles or alarm bunnies inside. Meanwhile, Ticketman RNG is inconsistent: sometimes great, sometimes useless. I’d suggest making Teleport lockers RNG-based, but better placed, and having Ticketmen spawn more strategically.

Thanks a lot for reading!

clear raptor
#

on Cage system, I'd be okay to cost + energy to speed up the escape or go slow if you want to save energy

zealous olive
#

yeah well.. id be okay with hat trick beeing instant as fireworks are 😛

sour vault
#

strongly disagree with the point about cages

#

if anything bunnies shouldnt be able to uncage themself in the first place. bunnies pressure and force the magi to go to specific parts of the map by opening objectives and going up floors, but magi has no mechanics that force bunnies to stop what theyre doing and go to a specific part of the map

#

especially now with a 5th player

zealous olive
#

what about the other points? I actually agree with you. Bunnys should not get out of the cage by itself.

flint dome
#

I generally disagree with you, but I understand where you're coming from

I personally don't miss most marble skillchecks. I would actually suggest that a successful marble skillcheck has a longer stun duration, right now its basically 0 and you can grab immediately after and the animation looks janky from the bunny POV. I don't think bunnies are happy to find marbles other than it being funny.

This is why trapping booths isn't as bad as you are making it sound. Maybe I'm just good at skillchecks? I think the booth spawns could be a bit improved though, like circus 3 and center 3 are right next to each other on the one layout. Bunnies should be rewarded for taking the time to set up fail safes imo.

Ticketmen can be extremely oppressive if you get good spawns, and useless if you get bad ones. It is rare to have all of the floors good/bad.. the RNG system works but it's maybe too impactful on the match outcome? I wouldn't hate if they gave you less ticketmen but they were all useful spawns, probably...

The wiggle mechanic works fairly well as is.
You shouldn't be able to loot twice and plant a card and throw/cage.. that's just not fair at all. Might as well remove wiggling altogether at that point.

You can loot twice and throw in most cases. If you're near a cage you can loot once and quick cage, or you can just long-cage. If you're on top of a cage you can loot twice and quick cage as well, possibly loot once and long-cage, not sure, I dont usually try that. Planting the card is an optional thing that basically removes one of your loots.. as it should be imo.
If a bunny escapes once from me or I know they're a good player, I usually go down to max 1 loot. Most of the time they have a teammate nearby so you just throw immediately instead of looting anyway.
(I play magician, so I may be biased or unaware of other interactions from the bunny pov)

sour vault
zealous olive
#

I appreciate your response and understand where you’re coming from, but I think we’re experiencing these mechanics very differently , especially when it comes to Marble skill checks and looting.

I don’t mean this disrespectfully, but I find it hard to believe that anyone “rarely misses” Marble skill checks in actual matches. The timing window is extremely small, especially when you’re mid-chase and just dropped a Bunny. It happens instantly, and even skilled players can’t react perfectly every time. So saying it’s “not hard to hit” doesn’t reflect the reality at higher MMR.

Also, the Marble stun duration is already quite long , its by the way longer than when your stamina runs out or when you have no keys charged,longer than fireworks. At around 2100+ MMR you can easily get chain-stunned three or four times in a row. So the idea that stuns should last even longer feels completely off.

Regarding looting and card usage, I honestly don’t understand the logic behind saying a Bunny shouldn’t be lootable twice or that inserting a card afterward shouldn’t be possible. That’s part of the Mage’s core design. If I can’t loot and insert a card, then what’s the point of the mechanic? The issue right now is that sometimes you have to loot twice because the first interaction doesn’t drop the right item or the card fails to register. That’s not a balance issue — that’s a functionality issue.

And the wiggle mechanic clearly favors Bunnies right now. it’s almost impossible to loot, insert a card, and cage before the Bunny escapes. That’s why so many Mages just throw instead of interacting properly.

Overall, this isn’t about personal skill or who’s “good at checks” — it’s about whether the system itself is fair and consistent. Right now, the balance between Marble stun, looting time, and wiggle recovery definitely isn’t.

flint dome
#

Its only long if you fail the skillcheck, I was talking about when you succeed the skillcheck. Otherwsie I disagree but I already made my points, so I'll let others discuss. And yes, I don't miss most marble skillchecks.

zealous olive
flint dome
#

Seemed relevant to "Marble Balance"

zealous olive
#

ok. if you say you should get stunned hitting the skillcheck, even if that makes no sense imo, but lets assume it is like you say : Then i would say marbles need a 2-3 sec "charge" until they can be droped

sour vault
#

the skill check thing should definitely be removed but they should have other counterplay introduced

zealous olive
#

why would you want to remove it ?

sour vault
#

one would be making hat trick less shit so you could actually have the potential to grab a bunny over marbles, another is to make them only trigger if you move while standing on them to help with marble saving

sour vault
zealous olive
#

and what is a vet?

sour vault
#

veteran player

zealous olive
#

i know but how would you define that

#

what makes me a vet

sour vault
#

anyone with a significant level of experience in playing

#

skilled, experienced, veteran player theyre basically interchangeable to me

#

my point is that when you get a certain level of experience marbles become effectively useless

zealous olive
#

I honestly dont think this is true at all.

#

but its fine to disagree 🙂

sour vault
#

i mean compare it to fireworks, if it lands it gives the exact same effect every single time and theres nothing that would (or should) make it weaker against someone more practiced

#

if you hit a marble skill check it does almost nothing to you, and the more practiced you become the more frequent it becomes marbles do nothing

clear raptor
# flint dome I generally disagree with you, but I understand where you're coming from I pers...

I agree with you on these points, at the beginning I had some hard time to hit skill check, even playing as bunny to cross the line to reach the wheel, and eventually got used to it and most of the time I'm hitting now, BUT I dislike being the same button from the attack I didn't find a way to change it, most of the time that I failed skill check for marbles over the last matches were during a situation that I just clicked to grab bunny and the skill check showed up at the same time and it immediately fails (not even reached the skillcheck area)

flint dome
#

Yeah that's a good point, it has happened to me a few times that way. I'm not sure I would change it for myself, but the option would be nice (if it doesnt exist)

zealous olive
#

I would also say that fireworks should not have these large smoke amounts

sour vault
zealous olive
sour vault
#

nah its not impossible

#

that was about 9 seconds

zealous olive
#

but you have to keep in mind that the skillchecks are rnd

sour vault
#

the minimum wiggle time is 5 seconds, and i think before the minimum was added you could get out in 3

zealous olive
#

what the hell

#

imagine you want to play as a card mage 😄 hard times ahead

sour vault
#

its not fishy at all but it is completely ridiculous

zealous olive
#

am I the only one getting serious fps drops when hit by a firework/smokebomb`?

sour vault
#

happens to me as well

zealous olive
#

k

zealous olive
#

bro come on

#

this is BS, sorry

#

My stunrecovery from that takes longer than this wiggle.

sour vault
#

what the fuck lmao

zealous olive
#

there is no way this is legit

flint dome
#

whether this should happen or not is a good question, i would have just boxed without taking key personally.. but thats just because its balanced that way right now

severe dove
#

?????????

image.png
flint dome
#

visual bug, wrong place

zealous olive
#

man bro looting is a intended game mechanic

#

i need to do this

flint dome
#

doesnt need to be every time

zealous olive
#

mimic is 5 yards in rach

#

reach*

sour vault
#

it definitely shouldnt be this way

flint dome
#

Only because every capture is a godsend on 4th

#

with the amount of safe spots

zealous olive
#

i really dont mind losing, these guys are leaderboarders anyway. i just really hate the way i lose

sour vault
#

especially not when this is the moment the magi is meant to punish the bunny for screwing up

flint dome
#

there are other factors at play in the balance of it, is all im saying.. losing that box is a game breaker, but it was possible if you didnt take the key (with the current settings)

zealous olive
#

yeah my fault for taking 6 secs

#

sounds about right

flint dome
#

if captures on 4th were easier, it wouldnt have been a gamebreaker, just some perspective

zealous olive
#

ok i did not mesure the time

#

but it feels wrong

sour vault
#

maybe you shouldnt reach the box if you also card someone and be forced to throw

#

but all they did was loot for a single key lol

zealous olive
#

i did not even put a card in

#

and iam supposed to do this as well

#

so how

flint dome
#

the wiggle time might be too short, im not saying the feedback is invalid

zealous olive
#

there is no choise

#

if you force me to box instantly

#

thats the whole point

flint dome
#

they didnt, you took a key instead, and should have thrown the bunny because the box was too far

zealous olive
#

bro please

#

go

#

thats absolutly stupid

flint dome
#

add another box in the room, things change

#

theres more ways to look at it

zealous olive
#

i dont know how anyone would defend this, even if you are a bunny main

#

its completly ilogical

flint dome
#

lol, i just dont like the way its being whined about without perspective. if you were unable to reach the box, then yeah

zealous olive
#

"whined" about for pointing out a mechanical issue, gtfo

#

if you can not be reasonable why are you here

#

go

sour vault
flint dome
#

they could have trapped that box and you probably would have had to throw at the ground, hard to get an angle to the ferris, but then you just follow until they go down a floor themselves or get to a safe spot (which is the part im trying to say is worse, the safe spots on 4f)

zealous olive
#

I want the game to be great. I cant stand those irrational ppl

sour vault
#

assuming a bunny will wiggle at this speed which you kind of have to (the risk of them wiggling is too high) you just cannot interact with cards period, you could shake and throw but in this room i dont think theres a way to make that a significant setback

#

so you dont really have a choice

#

you just have to cage

flint dome
#

if there was a closer box, there would be no problem . the box/throw down can also be made less "necessary" by other changes. a perfect wiggle is too short and unfun

sour vault
#

i think its possible even for a bunny to wiggle faster than that and if youre in that kind of lobby then you have to throw

#

after a bunny is caught they effectively decide what the magi is allowed to do

zealous olive
#

i know there will be gear that makes wiggle 20% harder but this is not the solution

sour vault
#

and thats not even considering mousetraps like you said

zealous olive
#

and there is another thing, even when i hold E for a save cage, at around 75% they can break out as well

#

happend in this game too

sour vault
#

safe cage only bypasses a mousetrap

#

it doesnt do anything else

zealous olive
#

yesterday i read it prevents the bunny from wiggeling

#

i will not find it tho i think it was in general chat

sour vault
#

whoever said that was lying lol

zealous olive
#

it was a mod

#

not a mod, a carnival...i dont know the correct title, those w ith a tent

sour vault
#

mentor

zealous olive
#

thanks! exactly

#

so ofc i thought thats true

#

and wait i have another one

sour vault
#

on top of all of the other ways a bunny can prevent a grab already with a second player

zealous olive
#

okay and what did i miss here

sour vault
#

😭

#

at least they still fell and took damage

zealous olive
#

no really i dont know

#

what is this mechanic

#

iam willing to learn

sour vault
#

i think thats just the fastest you can wiggle out

zealous olive
#

Iam full of hope the Devs will see the Mages PoV and will agree its unfair atm

#

there is no way they say thats intended

#

lets wait and see. thanks to everyone that made valid points

zealous olive
sour vault
#

in that situation just fast cage

#

theres no reason to ever slow cage if you dont see a mousetrap

zealous olive
#

now that I know it will not prevent the bunnys from further wiggle, yes

#

but again

#

it should not be this fast in the first place

#

you already get instantly fireworked to death

#

iam really a very casuel bunny player, i give you that. but whenever i want to wiggle out it is impossible to do at this speed

#

that may be a me issue tho

topaz cipher
sour vault
#

i dont think it needs any bells and whistles

#

the game would change a lot just from bunnies needing help to uncage and then any additional mechanics can be added if necessary

topaz cipher
# zealous olive https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2606162013

what bothers me most is the grab animation, it takes away enough time for it to be an issue, it holds you in place where you can't look around to see where to go and it makes you a perfectly still target for rocket target practice

zealous olive
#

yeah but thats unavoidable i guess. The Grab animation is not the problem i think. Its more like the Grab will not connect even if you stand 100% infront of a bunny, a 0,1y movement will prevent the grab

#

", it holds you in place where you can't look around to see where to go and it makes you a perfectly still target for rocket target practice" thats the next issue ontop of the "you have to cage the bunny in 5 secs, no looting, no card placing"

#

or you grab a bunny that puts marbles before you. bunny gets panic and you get a skillcheck

#

but that should be an easy hotfix

zealous olive
#

I really appreciate everyone who engages in discussions and tries to improve things.

What I don’t appreciate as much and of course, you’re free to do it.. is when people just downvote without contributing to the conversation. If you treat this like Facebook, TikTok, or Instagram,you are not really helping

zealous olive
#

I can not disarm this mouse trap, only if i carry a bunny? 🙁

mouse.jpg
topaz cipher
topaz cipher
#

everytime I learn about something new it is always something the bunny can take advantage of, where is the stuff the magician can take advantage of?

zealous olive
#

Its hopefully comming 🙂

#

the are all very busy at the moment. lets wait and see what they have in store for us mages

topaz cipher
#

tbh I am not having much hope, the system for magicians is so drastically unbalanced, even things that should have been thought of from the start like the endless stunning that should have been an obvious situation when they make the rockets so available still hasn't been fixed despite there having been updates in the past, but instead what it did was push things further towards the bunny side and they haven't even made an announcement about the unreachable spots

sour vault
#

you really should be able to remove mousetraps from cages in passing

topaz cipher
#

especially since they take so long to remove when holding a bunny, like you should be rewarded for being vigilant

zealous olive
zealous olive
#

i would advice you not to give up on the game yet. its still alpha my dude

zealous olive
#

also an instant drop of marbles after a jump in 0,01 sec should be reconsidered

somber egret
sour vault
#

oh yeah

#

💀

wild bloom
zealous olive
#

i only need to loot twice because for some reason 1 time is not enough to put a card in and thats the problem

#

i disagree with beeing greedy just to play my abilitys.

wild bloom
#

I’ve never been looted twice to my knowledge and I get cards all the time

zealous olive
#

well, its not working now

wild bloom
zealous olive
#

who knows

wild bloom
#

Either way, doing all of that should not be a guarantee

zealous olive
#

i would never come of the idea to loot twice , if i would be able to put in my card in the first place. Here is what I actually mean: I need keys. I loot 1x for the key. No Mimic cages nearby, i want to use special ability: Cards. It dos not work. And here is where the problem is: Cards should be placeable regardless of inventory space.

#

maybe i made that not clear enough

wild bloom
zealous olive
#

can you give me the part where i said it like this

#

because that was not what i wanted to say

#

and tbh, i dont think i ever said it like this. Also, you are aware of the fact that bunnys wiggle out in under 5 sec right?

topaz cipher
steady lagoon
wild bloom
#

I’m pretty sure you only lose items that are in the key slots anyways though so if you don’t put them there you’re fine regardless. I will say I didn’t know that about the card, so that’s handy to know

as for Trist, you said it in the message that I replied to. You said you couldn’t loot twice, put a card, and cage, the thing is, that isn’t supposed to be something you can accomplish all the time. I’m just saying that level of greed should have the risk of a bunny wiggling out, or else we might as well remove wiggling out altogether.

zealous olive
# wild bloom I’m pretty sure you only lose items that are in the key slots anyways though so ...

What I actually meant and I think I even wrote it that way is that I’m unfortunately not able to insert my card after I loot once. This situation really happens a lot. I loot one time, I want to put my card in, and it just doesn’t work. It simply doesn’t work.
So then, just for testing purposes (keep in mind I’m a new player and I only started playing during the Playtest) I tried looting a second time for fun, and then it worked. After looting again, I was finally able to insert my card. But as soon as the card is inside, the bunny wiggled out and that’s what I meant.

The solution would be very simple: just let me insert the card regardless of what the bunny has in its inventory. That would completely fix the issue.

topaz cipher
zealous olive
topaz cipher
zealous olive
topaz cipher
silver nova
zealous olive
# silver nova All the cards have “ purpose” but smart bunnies can take away all the benefits f...

Tulip is absolutely right.
Bunnies can play extremely well when you give them the chance. I’m fully aware of that. During the Playtest I reached 2350 rating as Magician, and I basically played Rarely Bunny the entire time. It was insanely fun, but the actual new-player experience for Bunnies was still too demanding for me personally.

Then I queued Bunny on high rating around 2300 and I lost almost every single match. I think I won maybe two or three games total at that rating as Bunny and that felt supernice and was rsally intensiv. Both sides are fun, but Magician is definitely my main.

I really wish the Mage had more card diversity. For example:

Confusion Card
When you apply it to a Bunny, they suddenly see lots of Impostor-Bunnies running around.
Half of them are fake, half are real.
Some of them could do little “marking” animations, vision gets slightly distorted, and you hear weird ambient noises. It would fit the illusionist theme perfectly.

Madness Card
Something simple like: “Increase the Bunny’s Madness bar by two segments.”
Just a clean, solid piece of pressure.

Basically, some more illusion-based gameplay would be amazing.

In my opinion, the weakest cards right now are:

Command: Play Dead
For me, it didn’t work,could be a bug but I almost never used it.

Fake Play Dead
Also not very strong.
To be fair, I didn’t use my pssst ability much anyway, because I wanted to learn the game by sound and map awareness instead of relying on the ability. But many Mages abused it, so I avoided it on purpose. A rework here would be great.

Additional Card Idea

A “Loud Bunny” card would be incredible:
Every action the Bunny does becomes louder
Footsteps amplified
Maybe lasts longer than 60 seconds

The final one could even be permanent

That would be hilarious and actually useful for tracking and pressure.

#

Cage Mechanics, Marble Balance Mage Teleports and Cards

topaz cipher
glass zinc
#

(haven’t read all the thread yet so i don’t know if this has already been suggested yet and I also haven’t actually played the game yet only watched youtube videos)
how about being able to throw the bunnies in a cage from a distance or would that be too op? the mouse traps could act as a block for this so there could be counter play for it

topaz cipher
glass zinc
#

actually yeah my idea is kinda bad bunny_panic having to manually put them in a cage or le box helps with the game balance

topaz cipher
hollow kite
#
  1. This game is team based.
  2. Gears.
  3. The only thing here that is might sounds right is Ticketman RNG.
zealous olive
hollow kite
#
  1. The cages are fine, they are team based and skill checks are not hard to hit.
  2. Magician is strong with gears. The problem is: you have to grind for them on bunny. And so is for level to unlock the gears.
  3. RNG of ticketman - I don't like, I think they should always spawn and the same location.
zealous olive
# hollow kite 1. The cages are fine, they are team based and skill checks are not hard to hit....

Okay, this is better than the first attempt ..at least that’s some progress.
Regarding the part about teammates’ cages and “skill checks are not hard to hit”: it was never about skill checks being difficult. I think you simply misunderstood the post, so I’d honestly recommend reading it again.

Point 2 is the same situation. Actually, I want to go into this because in my opinion it’s complete nonsense. Saying “Magician is strong with gear” is honestly not even close to the Topic.. Sure, maybe Magician is strong with gear — but aren’t Bunnies also strong with gear? That’s not the topic at all.

It’s a bit disappointing that you jump into such a huge thread, drop three points, and didn’t even understand what the discussion is about. I don’t know… I think the game is too good for someone to just dump a quick 1-2-3 reply into my thread without even getting the point+thumbs down 🙂
Point 3 is the one where you’re actually engaging with what I said — great.

hollow kite
hollow kite
#

No issue at al at first point. Everything work just fine no matter what you mean.
Wiggling out does not take 3 seconds. It's skill based. And as I said again: unlock gears. 2 New one that allows you to make skill checks harder for 40% (if combines together) + 2 gears that increasing your speed for searching them.
Third one is straight up weird, countered by marbles and bunny alarm, so? 🤔 They are draining their items after all.

#

And ticketman ? Idk, works fine but I'd prefer to have their spawn always being decided and not an RNG based thing.

zealous olive
hollow kite
#

What is your point?

zealous olive
#

are you real ?

#

or is this some kind of script

hollow kite
#

Yes, I am

zealous olive
#

ok watch again

hollow kite
#

Damn, I think this is that guy who made his skill check zone all red except for the greatest one.

#

Or no

#

Idk

zealous olive
#

Honestly, this is intellectually beneath me. Saying something as stupid as “throw them down, don’t shake” ... what is that even supposed to mean? That I should never loot? Never put a card in? Really?
It’s genuinely depressing how many people trying to make the game worse. Because what you’re doing isn’t feedback at all. I don’t know why you’re even writing this, but sure… keep going. Keep it up.

hollow kite
#

What stops you from using this build?

#

I am feeling fine with 2 gears that make my shaking speed 20% faster

#

The problem here is that they made it just perfect so this mechanic is useful if you have a good skill. If they will change it it will become just like in DBD, it kinda exist but has no use because hooks are always near you.

#

So a gear counter works really good here. But, you have to grind for them really hard. I think they should change the craft system for it.

fluid imp
#

@zealous olive Slightly reminder, that we're using English as a main language of the server. Commenting feedback in your language, because other person can understand it, is killing it for everyone else. Check the rule 6.

@hollow kite Check the rule 4 please. It's not allowed to ping staff members separately, when you have some issues.

hollow kite
steady lagoon
# hollow kite Throw them down, don't shake.

Does this mean that a skill of one player should delete part of your toolkit with no option to counteract with your skill, only with this specific gear that you apparently required to have if you want to play on high mmr? That is... certainly is an opinion?

hollow kite
#

Also, the video guy sent is kinda sus. Can u use a panic gear when you are in magician's hands? 🤔

#

Because it was quick than usual , even with all good skill checks pressed.

topaz cipher
# hollow kite Yes, why not?

cause it isn't fair? a game like carnival hunt should be a cat and mouse sort of chase with rock, paper, scissors strategy mechanics. In a game like CH the game mechanics should be tools whose usefulness is dependent on the skills of the person using them, if you give a regular person a kitchen aid they might make brownies, but if you give a baker a kitchen aid then they'll bake you anything you wish for.

#

for example, in DBD(just cause it is the most recognizable) if players are bringing in flashlights(scissors) the killer can bring light born(rock) but during the match the players can still use locations like pallets and windows, or perks/tools like tool box(paper aka strategy) to counter lightborn and the killer can do the same

hollow kite
#

And even worse build with 2x gears for harder skill checks and 2x additional pockets.

#

Also magician has a build with refreshing charge where he does not consume a key and refreshing his impostors and other powers.

sour vault
#

gears should encourage build diversity/specialisation, locking simple core mechanics behind an unlockable skill is bad because it limits choice

#

dbd has a similar issue where killers feel shoehorned into bringing regression perks because survivors repair gens too quickly at base speed, and its hard to change base repair speed that late into the game when there are so many perks that can interact with it
in this game you cant even outskill a good bunny to return that choice