#Strong Hands sets a worrying precedent

59 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sharp herald
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The recent "Strong Hands" gear addition frustrates and confuses me for several reasons. I believe this was created to address the controversy behind wiggle skill checks, especially with recent topics being very heated over them. New players struggle to get out before they've been shaken twice, carded, and tossed in a cage, while high MMR players don't even get carded. It's a mechanic in its current form that divides the playerbase further and makes the game harder to balance.

And instead of addressing this directly, with something as simple as "buff good zone, nerf great zone," you create a gear that makes skill checks harder overall - a gear, mind you, that players will need to grind to level 100 and stack to see a noticeable difference - a gear that punishes new players far more than it does the high MMR players which take advantage of this mechanic.

This is one of several recent changes that has just boggled my mind, like Listening being a gear (also dumb) - instead of addressing things with direct changes, it feels like the answer to every common problem is just gonna be "use X," with a base game that suffers as a result.

And also, Hasty Collector already exists? Like, if I wanted to solve the wiggle issue with gears, I would just use that because it's actually useful outside of wiggling scenarios. So not only is it a poorly implemented solution, it's also redundant.

Fix the base game by changing the base game. Gears are not the answer to everything.

tall yarrow
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I personally think that it's too easy to wiggle out full stop, the amount of times i've dropped a bunny trying to card them is kind of silly

"New players struggle to get out before they've been shaken twice, carded, and tossed in a cage, while high MMR players don't even get carded." - I 100% agree with you about higher MMR players getting out too easy, to be honest if you get caught that is that, the Magi won that in a sense Duel or chase so you should be losing a gear regardless (Not counting saves via other bunnies), the fact a bunny is able to wiggle out before a card is even able to be placed just nullifies the whole card ability for Magi, let's be real.... the skill checks are not exactly hard yes you have to hit great ones to time that but once you get the hang of it you can do it more cases than not so I feel Magi dropping a bunny before evening being able to card them is kind of.... meh, not fun.

I agree this should not be a gear they should just adjust the base values so Magi can at least have a chance to empty pockets, place card and then throw as a minimum BUT still make it so you can not do these 2 things AND get to a cage, it should be Grab > Cage OR Grab > Empty, Card > Throw.

shell apex
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I feel like there has been an endless line of buffs for the magician with no real though for gameplay for the bunnies.

tall yarrow
vapid breach
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I really dont think Magician should always be in the position to card a Bunny and then even throw or cage him, i mean yeah you said like its a little "duell" but then the price is the gear you lose and not also the card.

if it would be like this you ALWAYS would be double punished for getting caught. (or even triple since cage feels like double punish itself).

Also yeah maybe High MMR Bunnys can hit the skillchecks very fast, but if i see high MMR players on stream they funnily dont hit every yellow one.. and even if they do, the majority of the players aren't high MMR i would bet. and also the majority of high MMR is magician which means even less Bunnys are High MMR, so even less that may hit them or not.

But if we forget the high and mid MMR what is with all the new players? They have it sooo hard already and then they would even get harder Skillchecks?

Also if you hit or miss skillchecks you need to spend Charge on them, and then people will miss more skillchecks and spend even more charge?

I think this is a bad idea.

tall yarrow
# vapid breach I really dont think Magician should always be in the position to card a Bunny an...

Catching a bunny to just card them is near pointless, only reason to catch a bunny is to get rid of a gear (Could argue slow down but when ropes have been placed it takes barely 1-2 mins to climb 3 floors at that point), even then I've had to throw a same bunny over 6 times once because the amount of Oilers the team were gathering was INSANE, but that's a different topic I suppose.

Some of the cards aren't even that strong so if it had to be one or the other I would simply ignore the cards and just make sure a gear is lost every time.

The skill checks point I would agree with you, maybe they are not always hitting the best skill checks, just probably me remembering all the drops rather than amount I have carded and thrown.

vapid breach
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Well i wonder how often you meet this coordinated teams, and if its only the same 10 people or more 🤔

loud panther
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This is exactly how the early days of dbd went there was a huge pallet problem and instead of reducing them they added Nurse

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Then there was god vault issues and instead of getting rid of them they added breakable walls

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they just added things in to help with the games current main issue rather than address it and strong hand and listen becoming an ability gear is making the game go down this path which will be good now but later down the line be bad changes overall

pure dove
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except maby snitch(stretching it) no card in the game is good enough to make this trade

pure dove
stuck sluice
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I didn't know there was a gear like that, can we have some detail of stats it gave ?

pliant trout
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1000% this

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dont add new things to fix old problems

stuck sluice
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wdym ?

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Can someone told me what this gear do ? bunny_sob

pliant trout
stuck sluice
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Mmmmh, that's dogsh/t.

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idk if i am disappointed or angry when i see this dev-update.

naive hazel
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There were no problem at first place.

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Hitting yellow zones is more than enough and not really hard, they are really big. Gear is a perfect solution to the not being able to shake and insert the card problem.

pliant trout
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relying on a gear to be able to use a part of your kit that shouldnt be in question in the first place is not a perfect solution

stuck sluice
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  • there is already a better gear for lotting faster.
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So this gear is useless and not needed in the game.

pliant trout
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if you stacked these you probably could also consistently double shake, card and cage which goes against their own stated design philosophy

stuck sluice
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But how did it make it harder ?

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Like if its just faster i think its not a big value.

pliant trout
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It is 20% more difficult to escape from the cage on your own.
this is the wording they used when they made cage escape take longer, so strong hands probably makes it longer as well

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Strong Hand makes skill checks for bunnies 20% harder

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idk why they use this phrasing instead of 20% longer or skill checks are 20% smaller

stuck sluice
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"Strong Hand makes skill checks for bunnies 20% harder"
like we don't really get detail here.

pliant trout
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im assuming it makes wiggling take longer

naive hazel
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I am suggesting selling this specific gear at store, since bunnies basically can buy two OP gears for just playing, without waisting crafting items.

gusty nexus
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Unless this gear straight up deletes the great skill check, it's dog

naive hazel
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Maybe arrow will move 20% faster

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It's good thing

gusty nexus
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Take a screen shot of the yellow area, reduce its size by 20%. That's what the gear does.

Unless it reduces the size for every great skill check in the match, pointless.

naive hazel
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We will see

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All I care about is how affordable it will be.

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If they won't add it to shop for 25k per gear then it's useless.

gusty nexus
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It's a passive gear, it will be expensive

naive hazel
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Will this gear be permanent?

gusty nexus
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It's a passive gear. So yes

naive hazel
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Good

pliant trout
naive hazel
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Probably going to make it like a striker yellow zone.

gusty nexus
pliant trout
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if thats the case and they made the wiggle timer consistent then itd be like iron grasp agi whatever and itd be fine but in the games current context its horrible design

gusty nexus
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Also, despite it saying strong hand, implying it's wiggle only, the note says skill checks in general. Does that mean smaller green area too? Would this be all skill checks like imposter grab, cage, strongman striker?

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Because now that just further punishes less experienced players...Yet again

pliant trout
stuck sluice