#Tunneling

89 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sterile garden
#

Tunneling (magician hyper focus on a single bunny, and doing all 3 gears of damage with in a matter of seconds) is still a major issue. Removes any skill vs skill gameplay and makes it so bunnies just want to camp safe areas and never take a chase. With how easy it is for the magician to get a kill this way it will for sure become meta in real gameplay if this isn't fixed.

chilly zenith
sterile garden
#

Tbh, Ive only had 2 games this alpha, both games where less than a couple minutes due to getting thrown into a corner several times and ripped in half. So I haven't noticed a panic system in play.

velvet cradle
#

as i said a lot of times and specially in a previous post with a lot of different feedback so it was maybe lost in all that mess or me writting huge block of text it was make these change :

for bunnies it's still horrible to see them being tunnel and chain kill so easily the problem with the panic is that yeah it stun a bit the magician and let you go but you are put on the ground on "play dead" state so it's soooo long to start running the magician is almost finish stunned so you still be grab again and again and throw and you die quickly i think make something like "if the magician is stun by the panic mode make a longer stun and the bunny is release not in a "play dead" state" to counter completely the tunnel focus because it's feel so bad each time i saw that on stream i feel so horrible and bad for the bunnies and it gonna make flee new player if they come first game they are just tunnel like that it's not gonna be healthy for the game.

update later this night : after speaking about it to counter maybe the possibility of magician following and stick bunny waiting for the panik mode to end maybe add something like if the magician is at X meter of a bunny in panik mode and stay close the panik mode don't disappear or disappear really slowly

chilly zenith
velvet cradle
#

thx you rock HYPERNODDERS for me clearly the problem was the time to get up and run the stun was almost done sadly :/

chilly zenith
# sterile garden Tbh, Ive only had 2 games this alpha, both games where less than a couple minute...

Yeah, that's the problem with a tutorial that can't cover all the nuances of the game. It's likely that closer to beta, we'll already have a strong established gameplay design that we can turn into a more complete tutorial for both roles.

Now, just so you don't have any more trouble with magicians, panic appears in the bunny during the first throw. Panic gives you:

  • Speed bonus.
  • You are immune to being knocked from a great height.
  • If the magician grabs you again, you gain a skill check (first one) that can stun the magician if passed successfully.
tiny thistle
velvet cradle
#

people could be like "yeah i'm tunnel fuck it" and just afk waiting for that moment to be done not trying to hit skill check

#

so a different color etc make it more important could help that

shy needle
wicked dove
#

Why not make it that when a bunny gets grabbed for a third time he cant be grabbed anymore (Invincible / protected by the master bc the show is boring) until the magician has grabbed someone else.

Would fix the solo tunnelling.

Also the bunny would be grabable again if the interacts with any of the objectives or objects.

rich solar
velvet cradle
wicked dove
#

Also the bunny would be grabable again if the interacts with any of the objectives or objects.

rich solar
#

better idea.
instead. third throw doesnt damage a gear, instead it notifies magician what floor a the majority of bunnies are on. 20 seconds damage immunity after panic should be long enough to deter tunnel too

wicked dove
#

i think ya forgot to read

#

grabbing the same bunny 3 times is already crazy imo in the same time/place

#

and it prevents it to kill it

velvet cradle
wicked dove
#

bc then if bunny does something he is self fault

#

so bunny needs to chill

#

i could maybe say he could interact with bunnys on floor and get key / items / oil.

But only oil can be used to stay inv. but anything else will deactivate it

velvet cradle
wicked dove
#

well you can still throw them down no?

#

you dont need 3 grabs to get him down 💀

rich solar
#

2 gears. i wouldve been fine with 1. just wanted the door closed

wicked dove
#

yeah thats why im saying 3 times and then no more bc 4th time would always be kill

#

but then theres the issue with if bunny has less gears what then

#

I think it would be nice if the fix for skill checks and anti tunneling would happen at same time

#

to balance it

rich solar
velvet cradle
# wicked dove well you can still throw them down no?

if you speak about the oil yeah but you need to access to these floor for the start of the game or if by any mean player can't climb you are still on this moment of "yeah i from full health to 1 left" and magician start to do this to someone else and being in 1 health don't make player to want to do objective to lose the immunity you speak about or to be noticed because of pop up sound so imagine you find someone quick 1 helath down we just play chill hide because he don't want to die or because he was already fed up to lose 2 health that quick and if someone else is caught and be bullied only 1 full health player left to do things etc

wicked dove
#

the issue is i dont have the best idea yet for making magician stop tunneling each bunny out

#

and also help magicians not loose bunny in 4 seconds by skill check

velvet cradle
#

the psychological part of the player is important in the equation each player gonna act different about this and even just not be killed but lost 2 health can be enough for people to just go break down and not give a shit or not want to interact with objective sadly

velvet cradle
wicked dove
#

Any ideas maybe with the charge on magician?

#

maybe when he is tunneling, more consumtion or fast draining?

velvet cradle
#

with the abondance of key magician can have i don't see it as a problem if i were to tunnel

wicked dove
#

then slow him down?

#

xD

rich solar
#

if the magician at least knows what floor other bunnies are on, it means he can go and try to stop objectives.

#

(pre emptively) (since notifications for each floor are a little jank atm)

velvet cradle
#

for the moment the only thing i saw as idea against tunnel is the idea i put up on the discussion it's rough but it stop completely the tunnel without penalize him to find by any chance the same bunny some times after and help the bunny to run away easily if grabbed in panik mode idk if it's the best solution but personally since i don't tunnel and grab the same person again and again i never had any problem with panik mode unless when i want to help bunny i just throw and he was bugged or something to ut him in a better place, i see it at the best solution for me but at the end idk if it is since it destroy the concept of tunneling or if magician with this system still want gonna at maximum kill 1 bunny and the other are escaping with all the time lost

#

but that why we are on alpha for try things

#

and find solution

rich solar
velvet cradle
#

meh

rich solar
#

like if hes grabbed within 20-ish seconds of panic stun.
you put him into hat, he gets sent to jack instead

velvet cradle
#

being floor 3 or 4 and being teleported floor 1 rough for bunny

rich solar
#

no damage, just first floor

velvet cradle
#

just for being tunneled

rich solar
#

thats like the ideal scenario, you rather lose 2-3 cogs or get sent to floor 1 like not being tunnled. not to mention it waste magicians time with animation locking

velvet cradle
rich solar
velvet cradle
#

like i said in other alpha and at start of this one topic having a little longer stun and/or bunny escaping hand and can instant run is a better solution it only penalize the magician if he grab in panik mode without penalize the bunny and him if he find the bunny again soon after for any reason maybe i'm wrong but for the moment i only see that after all the alpha i played and stream of bunny being tunnel i saw

rich solar
#

like jack can have plenty of uses other then being a slot machine

#

deadass, a bunny gets sent down? have the bunny pop out of the machine slot, confused and maybe cough out a key too since as a gift from jack

sterile garden
#

think the issue I'm having is, the guy that tunnels, would do 1 of 3 things to avoid the panic mode. 1. simply throw into a corner or a dead end hallway and wait out panic, 2. throw a bunny at me to stun/damage then scoop me up to throw for 2 gears of damage, or 3. throw me into an impostor bunny. I'm assuming this is why I have not noticed panic mode, it's just being bypassed.

#

Tbh I get sometimes you have to throw a bunny more than once. Now, with cages being so valuable I can see multiple throws just to get a bunny to a cage. How about instead of panic mode, bunnies can only take 1 gear loss every 30sec from a throw. This will mean that a bunny can still lose all three gears from being hit by a thrown bunny, to being thrown, and to being caged, but they can't be killed after 1 chase.

willow cedar
#

was looking for this feedback and wanted to chime in i totally agree with reducing the play dead state for a bunny when they manage to stun / complete all their skillchecks after a grab.

the mag finishes their stun animation and my bun has hardly even stood up Sweat

rich solar
rich solar
velvet cradle
rich solar
velvet cradle
# sterile garden think the issue I'm having is, the guy that tunnels, would do 1 of 3 things to a...

yeah i feel it's a possibility too but for that hard to manage that if he want to wait for the panik mode hard to counter that or maybe add something like if the magician is at X meter of a bunny in panik mode and stay close the panik mode don't disappear or disappear really slowly

at least the advantage of this compared to dbd for example is tunnel is still good to used a lot in dbd because it can still make you win or draw because before they finish gen you have tunnel at least 2 people or almost killed the second since objective are quicker the more player you have, here you don't care since 1 player go as quickly on objective as 2-3-4 player alive so the strategy to tunnel even if it happen, if you make magician lose enough time like you said he wait for panik to go away or from my idea with longer stun and bunny advantage to run while he is stunned make the game being lose for the magician since 1 player can go all the objective and put rope for the others etc and objective not defended are really quickly done by bunny a game take time because magician defend them but if he is not and bunny do them it's incredibly fast
for the second point i agree i think being damage need to give the panik mode anyway even if it's not by being throw by hand from the magician
for the 3rd i think it's not possible anymore ? i remember older alpha it was said and addressed i think that being ragdoll send to an impo was not possible maybe bug if it's still here

sterile garden
#

I was thrown into an imposter earlier today, then scooped up and thrown into a dead end, scooped up, thrown back into dead in, to finally be scooped up and ripped in half. In another game, same monster tossed a dead bunny at me, grabbed me, tossed me at a wall, then tossed the same dead bunny at me again, just to scoop me up and rip me in half. Both matches took just about 2 min or so for me. The 3rd time this same person tunneled me it was just down a deadend hallway. No trick to this one. The process takes less than 30 sec all 3 times, and it was always at the begining of the match before I even had a chance to grab items.

velvet cradle
sterile garden
#

This is why Id love to find a solution to this. I was a killer main in DbD, Monster main in VHS, Ghost main in GBSU, and a predator main in PHG. When the killers use tactics like this that remove the possibility of a fight then the rest of the killers have to deal with bunnies playing super sneaky. Takes alot of excitement out of the games.

velvet cradle
#

yep agree, i updated my idea to add the panik don't disappear or slowly in case a magician want to stay close or near bunny waiting for the panik to go out

sterile garden
#

My biggest concern is bunnies abusing the system. Look at the anti-tunnel stuff DbD has. people go out of their way to force a killer to trigger DS or off the record for example. And like I said earlier I do think there are times when as a monster you will need to toss a bunny more than once. Yeah its not fun for the bunny, but with how super fast bunnies can rush the exit you really want to get as many to cages as possible to try and force some slow down.

velvet cradle
#

i mean it's hard to imagine how they can abuse it like yeah stay near you to still have panik but that doesn't gonna change anything they still don't do objective so it's a lost of time for them just running and following magician specially since magician is faster and the magician if he want to ignore them following them to target these that do objective

#

and that is thx to the way objective are made in carnival compared to dbd for example the way objective are and how they can be made and not permanent and one time used before being done again is incredible for that

#

compared to a dbd losing 30 sec of time is terrible since any progression about a gen done is permanent and bring you closer to a lose

velvet cradle
sterile garden
#

I was talking about just throwing the bunny closer to a cage. I find when I play magician most bunnies are about to wiggle out of a grab before I can get them to a cage. So tossing them closer to a cage and regrabbing is needed at times. Unless Im doing something wrong. lol. Earlier I was playing magician and had a group use the cannon before I could get to it. By the time I got my first grab they were on the 3rd floor, so I started really focusing on getting cages.

velvet cradle
#

Then for that like chill said it above and we said it him and me a lot while we have discussion it's a grab duration problem instead of a panik problem

sterile garden
#

agreed

velvet cradle
#

Like he said and i too the duration for the grab is too short and idk why that short since it force to throw instead of playing for cage even more weird to understand that now cage are important for extraction system

sterile garden
#

The extraction/progression system is another conversion I'd like to see started. Feel like its a bit much for bunnies, and extremely much for magicians.

#

Think thats a conversation for another thread this one is already getting a bit long. lol

velvet cradle
#

Yeah i already made of post for that adressing there is problem for magician