THE Submarine Facts thread

[sick nebula]

Would allow to make more agile subs without need to create large ballasts which is just a nice option. Also it would be cool to have or know an xml file that allows one to change how much water affects ascension and desention rates, to make flooding or ballasts better/worse. And of course to remove the rise and fall speed limit.

[misty minnow]

that seems like needlessly messing with a core mechanic. A sub needs ballast, if the sub builder wants an agile sub he was to proportion is adequately.

changing room volumes but just for ballast logic without editing the actual hull seems like an abolute mess

[sick nebula]

an optional setting would be fine, the freedom of building would be nice, and i dont think there would be many issues with allowing changing of hull volumes

[fossil lichen]

some ships need this

like the colussus which has a ballasts size of 2 dugongs stacked on each other and it still cant go down

[misty minnow]

what ship is that?

[fossil lichen]

colosuss

i think thats the name

its also called the moving station

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2419409172

[misty minnow]

jfc what the hell lol. if it's so large already what's a bit more ballast

it shouldnt have ridiculous ascent and descent speeds at that size anyways

[lofty abyss]

If you can't dedicate at least 14% of your ship to ballast... your not building a submarine, thats aboat

that said, a simpler solution would be allow changing the NBL from 7% (ie how dense your sub is), so that you could have subs that ascend quicker/slower (and require more or less ballast to reach neutral)

though that has the downside of letting you adjust how much of your ship is flooded before it sinks

[glacial tartan]

Can't you stack hull boxes if you really want to cheat the system?

[mental aurora]

unsure if this works but you could try stacking hulls?

it would likely be a bit buggy tho

[sacred quartz]

No.

Just ask for movement thrusters at this rate

[sick nebula]

yeah i dont think stacking hulls should be the answer rather than just a room volume editor

watching my fast submarine that does not have a ballast the size of cold caverns speed forwards and backwards at the speed of light and then fall and rise at 0.0001 m/s.

anyway in real life submarines have wrap around ballasts which cant be represented on a 2d plane so it would make sense to just have a volume editor.

big ballast

not the height of a skyscraper

[glacial tartan]

It would also make it even more common to see submarines were everything has been edited in the least intuitive way possible, so you have zero clue how it'll act in game by looking at the screenshot.

[sick nebula]

I mean the screenshot can just lie anyway

I think that restricting the sub builder so much over such a small problem is not really sound

anyway heres what subs currently are like in vanilla if you want a normal ballast like the earlier image

just super tall if you want it to compete with a very fast engine (even if a fast sub is too strong for vanilla it should be possible to make these kinds of subs)

[fossil lichen]

here is a funny little thing

if you press alt you see everything accesable to you

this way you can make the sub super crammed

meaning you have more place for ballast

that thing also solves this

and if you are making a racing sub

im pretty sure it wont have a fabricator

they only need a reactor and a junction box

[sick nebula]

oh i already cram it to hell

i just wish to have a small fast sub rather than a giant sub for the sole reason of ballast

apreciate the advice though

[fossil lichen]

also make normal hulls small

so you can just make it that the airlock is just a moonpool

[cloud cove]

In real life submarines do not maneuver by buoyancy, that would be a recipe for disaster

[misty minnow]

baro very different to irl

so trying to argue ideas for this on the basis of irl is already out the window tbh

[sick nebula]

they go up and down with ballast tanks which is buoyancy? they cant move side to side with ballasts but up and down is what they can do and what baro does.

[sick nebula]

Its not realistic but it contains things based of real life concepts like firearms, reactors, and ballasts. So i think arguing for a skew in the way ballasts as a concept is implemented in barotrauma is not that dramatic. Its just a change in stats anyway for the editor.

[cloud cove]

They either use dive planes to pitch up or down, or they can also alter the trim by moving water forward and aft.
The buoyancy is kept neutral as much as possible using regulating tanks. This is necessary because depth compresses the hull. Going deeper means you need to evacuate some water.

[sick nebula]

hmm i assumed only during surfacing

but barotraumas limitations dont allow for that so you are stuck with buoyancy only which limits manuvers, and regardless the lack of capacity limits vertical movement options significantly for custom subs

[sick nebula]

you know alot about subs

[cloud cove]

The point is, real subs doing x or y isn't really relevant to Barotrauma. It does its own thing, and that is fine.

[sick nebula]

sure

but the option would be great and thats what matters at the end of the day regardless of whats realistic and not

do the Baro Developers even read this channel? have they ever implemented any suggestions here specifically

[sick nebula]

lol

but really

do they?

[cloud cove]

The ballasts of submarines are blown when they surface, and fully flooded when submerging. It's a 100% on-off thing. If they were half full there would be a significant volume of water moving towards the same direction that the sub rolls due to waves or wind, increasing the center of gravity / reducing the stability while surfaced.
Ballasts are not rated for high pressure so they are open at the bottom. If there was any air in the ballast while submerged it would expand as the sub came closer to the surface (pulling it harder up), compress when the submarine goes down (pulling it harder down). This positive feedback is very unwanted. No air in ballasts!

Fine tuning of buoyancy happens by adjusting the water amount in pressurized regulating tanks. Drain regulators are already contain pressurized air: when diving deeper, to compensate for compression of the hull you lose weight by opening the valves to the sea, water exits due to the pressure. If the sub's too deep a pump can be used for additional pressure head.
Flood regulators are kept at a lower pressure as ambient, when coming closer to the surface opening the sea valve causes water to enter and make the sub heavier to compensate for the expansion of the hull.

[fossil lichen]

no

[fossil lichen]

baro ideas is basicly the community talking about something

[sick nebula]

do they care what the community has to say

[fossil lichen]

kinda

if im right they sometimes see whats posted on the github

but you cant see all the ideas

[sick nebula]

i see

also why the fuck does this have 3x as many thumbs down reactions than thumbs up ones

its just asking for sandbox editor options

[mint jasper]

because people don't think it's a good idea

start a discussion on the github and watch it get shot down by the devs instantly

[fossil lichen]

look

here is a thing

[sick nebula]

i feel like any expansion of options should be welcome whether or not you use it or not, more options more better

[fossil lichen]

in the ek modpack you have vertical thrusthers

[sick nebula]

oooohhh

[fossil lichen]

its not that way

[sick nebula]

wait

[fossil lichen]

its not that a thumbsdown means its shit

it means poeple dont think its necesary

[sick nebula]

😦

well question

idea more like

is that thruster just an engine but the thrust angles are edited

can i just do that

ill check

[fossil lichen]

thay are like engines but for vertical movement

[sick nebula]

yeah im just thinking its a simple valueswap in the .xml file

[fossil lichen]

maybe it is

[sick nebula]

or maybe if i just literraly rotate the engine in the subeditor

[fossil lichen]

it wont do that

[sick nebula]

because its just force="" like all other things

[fossil lichen]

engines only do the x

[mint jasper]

doesn't EK use lua

[fossil lichen]

wait ek is programing luanguage?

[mint jasper]

no

[fossil lichen]

then whats the problem with it

please explain

[sick nebula]

<Engine minvoltage="0.5" powerconsumption="2000.0" maxforce="300" canbeselected="true" propellerpos="-320,0" msg="ItemMsgInteractSelect">

[mint jasper]

I assume the vertical thruster from EK relies on lua for the vertical thrust functionality nope

[sick nebula]

this is the code from engine that would contain the axis, if thats what it uses

everything else is not related (textures, sounds, propeller hitbox)

who made the ek thing

i might try @ ing them

[mint jasper]

seems to work with ultra jank
using a turret to spawn a custom item that "pushes" the sub

[mint jasper]

it's not
engines are hardcoded for horizontal movement

[sick nebula]

Also thanks for this nice little information package

[misty minnow]

great 101 thanks I always just presumed they had a ballast but it went from empty at surface to full at max dive depth of the sub. Sloshing around a lot I guess. Your detailed explanation adds up far more than my mental design of a sub's actual ballast 😝

[misty minnow]

If every expansion of options was added the sub editor would be an absolute mess. You'd have engines tweaked to fill-up the ballasts for all we know, figuring-out how subs are built would be next to impossible. The downvotes are probably because it's a very niche need you have which also obfuscates the editor, which is already not the most straightforward thing in the world for most players.

[sick nebula]

sensible

[sick nebula]

yknow browsers like chrome and stuff

in the settings of the browser

they have settings and then a little tickbox of advanced user or show me advanced options

i think that would be a gate for this stuff to prevent confusion without limiting things

[misty minnow]

so niche it wouldn't be worth the development time given that many other things have definitely more use to the wider playerbase

[sick nebula]

not sarcasm but like what, feel like the game is in a ok state @misty minnow

[misty minnow]

Have a browse through the most upvoted #1148990812013744180 or the github pipeline 🙂 (huh made me realise the sorting options in discord for a threads channel are very limited, can't sort by reactions)

[lofty abyss]

Real (military, at least) submarines generally move up/down via trim fins on the end/front of the sub and actually thrusting while the entire sub is tilted

the ballast tanks are more just to keep 'neutral' buoyancy and for emergency surfacing

hence why when you see a submarine 'breach' its doing so nose up

https://tenor.com/view/dallas-submarine-gif-19108003

Like this.

They also will use ballast tanks to help tilt/correct tilt on the submarine

It also would take forever for them to 'recompress' the air in the ballast tanks if they did it that way, and hence they would only be able to dive a few times before having to come up for more air

[cloud cove]

Little off with this one.
Buoyancy is kept with regulating tanks. If the boat maneuvers extensively in the vertical plane, it will end up with full flood regulators and empty drain regulators (these are "ballasts" for controlling buoyancy though their walls are much thicker, reinforced for tremendous internal pressures). At this point all you'd need to do is flip them: flood becomes drain and you blow air from high pressure flasks into it. Drain becomes flood, and you bleed the air from it into the pressure hull.
The additional air from the tank raises the inside air pressure. If this gets too high, a compressor can be used to return the air into the high pressure air flasks.

[fossil lichen]

isn't this the reason moves like to make subs chrash trough the ice?

cuz i think that has to be kinda false

like that should damage the hull and the sonar too much

[cloud cove]

The ice beraking maneuver isn't an uncontrolled ascent with ballasts blown, it's a gentle and deliberate rise. Has to be very precise.

[fossil lichen]

wait its an actual thing?

i taught it was adumb movie thing

[fossil lichen]

huh

[sick nebula]

oh yeah that i know about, its sick

wonder about the radio mast though how it remains undamaged

[cloud cove]

All of the masts are retractable

[lilac heath]

Yes

But they hate this idea

[sick nebula]

?

[fossil lichen]

they dont

he is using the devs as gods here

like how a parents says god hates when you burn poeple

then they never tell you how he made a warrior burn his only daughter

it in the bible

its in the book of judges

[glacial tartan]

It's true, Baro devs do support burning people.

[fossil lichen]

thats why we have the flamer

ic4

nukes

[cloud cove]

This is now a submarine facts thread.

[sick nebula]

forever more will it be

[fossil lichen]

could you rename it please?

[sick nebula]

THE Submarine Discussion thread

THE Submarine Facts thread

Done

A new era

fact: submarines can be underwater

[fossil lichen]

fact if submarines crew wouldn't need food submarines would be able to submerge for years

and food does not include water

[mint jasper]

this used to imply submarine crew currently do not need food before you fixed it lol

[fossil lichen]

What are you talking about(thanks for tellign me).

[misty minnow]

the wouldn't confused me as well haha
If submarine crew didn't need food, then submarines would be able to [...]

[lilac heath]

Bro renamed the suggestion

[boreal tiger]

Submarine Fact: There are more planes in the ocean than submarines in the sky

[lofty abyss]

yea they look pretty funny up there.

with those stubby little wings. the other aircraft make fun of em 😦

[fossil lichen]

i made a small error by writing if submarine crews would need food instead of woudln't

[misty minnow]

Yeah no worries at all, I'm easily confused

[fossil lichen]

the first submarine was made in the american civil war and served on the confederate side but it killed more of its crew than enemys

[sick nebula]

i thought the first was made during the revolutionary war

the internet says the first one was built 1630, and did some stuff like using saltpeter for air refreshing and had a barometer for depth so thats something

[fossil lichen]

kinda but the first which was actually used and in idea could sink an enemy ship was a civil war

it had an explosive on an end of a big stick basicly and explosive spear

the problem was that the force of the detonation killed the crew always

[sick nebula]

i see

[sick nebula]

In a history class once we were taught about a submarine from the american revolutionary war that was basically a barrel, and the goal was for it to sneakily drill a hole in British ships. Of course if suposedly failed since all the british ships at the time had metal hulls rather than wood ones. Not sure if its a true story but thats what i heard once. Maybe the drill counts as a weapon.

[fossil lichen]

it is but if think about it that ship will rapidly sink if you drill it

you won't have time to extract

you are sinking with the ship

[sick nebula]

To be fair i dont think a handdrill will sink a full size british warship from that time period, honestly even if the hull was not metal i think it would take quite a while and the crew would probably wake up and notice