Grand Theft Auto IV (GTA 4)

[barren thorn]

i just pushed reflections for debugging how normals are working

and reflections are broken af

so um yea shadows are working

no possibility of replacing models

maybe mats you can do

but with broken normals no chance for it to look good

[young patrol]

I know from Skyblivion, VTM Redemption Reawakened, and similar projects that the answer is more likely than not, "It will release when it releases," but, I'm both too curious and too hyped to use it myself: is there any kind of ETA on when you'll release your GTA IV RTX remix files @smoky flame ?

[smoky flame]

There are still a few things I need to implement but towards end of the month maybe? Will probably start some limited scope testing with supporters this weekend

[young patrol]

With patreon supporters? If you did that I'd sub

What patch are you using for your build? IIRC my current modlist thanks to Iceenhancer 4.0 has me stuck on 1.0.3.0 but if I could go up to a patch that allows me to also play the DLC with it I'd be ecstatic

[smoky flame]

Yea as a small thanks to the long-term subs (that does not exclude new ones)
Very latest (Grand Theft Auto IV: The Complete Edition (1.2.0.59))

[amber rivet]

i tiped you 5$ back then on the portal 2 stuff is that want you mean? or you mean patreon

[smoky flame]

tier 2+ on patreon or recent ones on kofi. Can't keep track and/or keep it "fair" otherwise if that makes sense

[amber rivet]

im an og

well idc to support some more your work is truly goated

[crimson ruin]

sick man , btw is the game fully playable through all story? I just really want to complete it for the first time but with pt

[smoky flame]

uh .. I hope 😄 Have not really tested anything besides the very first mission and a short session on a 100% save

thats where the testers come into play

[compact cargo]

complete it with fusionfix

[crimson ruin]

aight then

[compact cargo]

get the original experience with a few quality of life enhancements that dont ruin the artstyle

[crimson ruin]

nah i want path tracing in gta😀

[compact cargo]

alr man have fun waiting a year for it to look and play reasonably good

[crimson ruin]

like how its ruining artstyle

[amber rivet]

always happy to donate to goated people

[crimson ruin]

pt making it even better

[compact cargo]

pt makes the graphics better

if its unrefined, it will change the look of the game entirely

[smoky flame]

ehw my name looks so weird with the first letter in capital

[crimson ruin]

ye and without ruining artstyle

if you mean that grey nyk atmoshere in remix version it still there

[compact cargo]

as long as the game looks like this i wont reccomend playing with pt

wait until the mod reaches an alpha or beta release

[crimson ruin]

mod is not even release yet😭 lol

[worn fox]

what are you saying

[crimson ruin]

still a month more, its fixible i think, if you mean water

and stop blaming xoxor work it looks very nice

[compact cargo]

theres the missing fog, i think the atmosphere is broken, ambient lights need to be removed its far from finished

[compact cargo]

im not?

[crimson ruin]

you are...

[crimson ruin]

brotato there is volumetric fog settings in remix menu

[smoky flame]

totally fine to point out missing stuff. Fog, especially timecycle based, is still on my todo list

not sure if I can get it to look like the og tho .. which is a mix of linear and volumetric fog I belive?

a lot of stuff will happen outside of the compatibility mod tho

[compact cargo]

does remix have like a default atmosphere you can use for time cycles or something

[smoky flame]

like removing some of the fake ambient lights is something that will need to be done via actual game mods

[compact cargo]

or nah

[smoky flame]

and I'm not a "gta" modder in that sense so someone else will have to do that

[compact cargo]

yeah this whole thing is a massive undertaking

its incredible that it seems to be cooperating with remix

[smoky flame]

nah I have to write all of the code for that. I need to grab certain game data and set volumetric fog settings on remix accordingly

[compact cargo]

hell idek how you managed it get it to hook in the first place thats insane

[smoky flame]

it's routine once you know what's needed. Success heavily depends on the way the game is build tho

[indigo charm]

says the goat

Regarding the style, when you are talking about implement PT and PBR in games that were never made in that regards, of course it is expected that the style changes drastically, as in, making more sense visually. That's just the nature of making light respect real life properties.

RTX Remix is here to massively improve games visual, similar to what a remake would be, if an original game style is too important for someone, then ... can just play the original

[hidden monolith]

I agree completely.

Plus, a game like this which already has a (mostly) realistic art style is the perfect choice for something like this.
I think a lot of the time what people is a game's art style is really more influenced by the technical constraints of the time than anything.

This isn't always true, of course - there are plenty of games whose art style was a deliberate choice by the developers - but when it comes to games like this, I think that if Rockstar could have released this game in 2008 with the same kind of graphics that GTA VI will have, they absolutely would have.

[zenith hill]

gamers love to reinvent historical materialism but for gaming but somehow come to the conclusion that this means you should just dismiss the gameplay and art choices of games from the past because that's not how they would have been made today

[wicked hedge]

gta 4 is not real

[stark basalt]

Glad I checked here, didn't know remix was being worked on for gta4. I've been hoping to see native HDR for this game, like RenoDX but it doesn't support dx9

[indigo charm]

The only place I would agree you need to keep close to original, is if there is dark places on purpose for horror. If you put PT and all of the sudden everything is lit, then yeah try to tone it down to keep the ambiance (if possible). But with GTA, going for more realistic instead of stylized seems a good fit for games trying to simulate a real city.

[smoky flame]

finally got some fog

[earnest kernel]

Is this DLSS Ultra Performance

Fog looks sick btw

[wicked hedge]

ngl might look better without

[smoky flame]

First one was. All others are on balanced

[wicked hedge]

it does look foggy like that in real life NYC though

[wicked hedge]

i can already see e

*people hating because they cant run it on 1gb rtx 2050

[smoky flame]

Feels cpu bottlenecked. Changing dlss doesn’t make that much of a difference

[wicked hedge]

this is really bad news xD

Should've gone to Am5.. well , i won't be upgrading anytime soon

[wise osprey]

Of course everything is wip still and I have that in mind, but it would be cool to have everything as close to IV‘s vanilla visuals as possible, so in theory timecycle only graphics mods would work without much adjustments. It‘s very cool to have fog, but it looks kinda dark here and not dense enough compared to IV‘s visuals. The horizon sky colors are usually much brighter than top sky colors. FusionFix also comes with volumetric fog, in case you don’t know. Just in case

[smoky flame]

That’s my goal but remix‘ fog settings are still pretty limited and translating timecycle variables to remix variables isn’t that straightforward. I’ll make all of that adjustable tho

[dull thunder]

Seems like a lot of manual work to adjust fog according to the detected weather type. I wonder if remix mod.usda could be used to alter fog settings

Normally in toolkit I think I've never seen such parameters exposed, only in runtime

[smoky flame]

trying to match things up manually so I can compare timecycle values with whats needed on the remix side. Haven't found a way to achieve bright fog tho. Don't think that its possible

[wicked hedge]

https://youtu.be/tLxZyM0KtSE?si=jMlRuuWMimEssWFZ

now just import that niko model

[wicked hedge]

those frames tho

[smoky flame]

that frame counter is really bad

its around 40 with remix there but it dips all around the place

the second pic is without remix and I had 260 and not 14

[wicked hedge]

fair point

[barren thorn]

one detailed character and everyone else low poly 2008 ones

XDDDD

imagine

[wicked hedge]

gotta start somewhere xD

this is insane work tho

someone should hit him up about this project to see it ingame.

[dull thunder]

@smoky flame are character hashes stable?

[wicked hedge]

https://youtu.be/NKli_z5PoSg?si=HxSw2ZBlPhWdZrGZ

hire this guy

[lone garden]

and again

send this link

[smoky flame]

yea but I don't think that you can replace them because of vertex shaders (there is no skeleton)

[wicked hedge]

wat?

[smoky flame]

its a different video - uses the same pic tho

[wicked hedge]

smh unstable hash

be stable already

[lone garden]

never

[smoky flame]

these are the values I have to somehow translate to remix settings 🫣
Was thinking about matching up 2-3 by hand and then paste all of the results into some AI model (together with the remix settings) so that it hopefully spits out a few functions

[wise osprey]

Giga Chad Niko

[wise osprey]

IV uses a really weird kind of fog technique. Parallellines perfectly described what's wrong with it on my server and explained how modern games do it instead. I'll try to find it. His volumetric fog shader from FF also kinda works like fog in modern games, so maybe it's easier to combine this with Remix? Maybe it's easier to work with that instead to get better results

[smoky flame]

linear/expo fog mixed with volumetrics. I need to translate that to absorption/transmittance and atmosphere height

[dull thunder]

Over here, could you control the building emissives to be enabled after a certain period in game time?

[smoky flame]

wdym?

the game controls all the emissives

[dull thunder]

I have noticed these distant emissives are always enabled in your screenshots

[smoky flame]

nope

[wise osprey]

Yeah exactly. I'm not very familiar with shaders at all, so I barely understand the technical side behind things, but it seems you pretty much understand things right. So non of that should be anything new for you 😄

[dull thunder]

maybe I was in doubt. Thanks for clarifying

[smoky flame]

yea I took most screenshots in the evening / night because my save starts at 10pm or so

[compact cargo]

faceapp niko

[smoky flame]

far from perfect but man this is tiring

[amber rivet]

amazing

[barren thorn]

Diffrent configuration for diffrent weathers with time of day modificators?

this one feels like hell of a job

[dull thunder]

I feel how much work you have put into this. But adding small things from time to time will keep improving the compatibility mod overall

Just great to see progress here

Reminder that this game was never really considered to be "remixed" yet it happened because of your efforts

[smoky flame]

No it takes the timecycle settings of the game and translates them to remix variables. Have to make sense of scales and mix and recalculate multiple things to get something in the ballpark of the og look

[barren thorn]

thats even better way to do it but none the less i think that future modders will appreciate that

[smoky flame]

I hope some og gta4 modder will rewrite that part of the code one day lmao

[dull thunder]

@smoky flame your implementation for the weather dependent roughness appears static? Is there something that can perhaps make it affect the materials roughness map when someone does eventually makes a mod? Right now it feels like there's a uniform roughness layer whenever there is a rainy weather in game

I don't know how to explain it exactly but that's also one of the things I noticed

[smoky flame]

its a global roughness offset applied to the final roughness of the material, so after getting the roughness from a replacement texture (if present)

[dull thunder]

Very nice, I would like to try and remake the roads for this game to test it out

[smoky flame]

yea it looks kinda off with no normalmap

[wise osprey]

I'm very happy with these results, so in my opinion it was worth all the work. Good job man!

[dull thunder]

Is baked lighting removed?

Like over here, can't tell if it's baked or actual path traced

[smoky flame]

there is no baked lighting anywhere besides whats kinda baked into the dirt decal shader textures (not applied on that pic)

[narrow cloak]

I wonder if it's possible to do some remix api trickery to apply the game's own normal maps to their respective materials

[dull thunder]

Alright! It is kind of weird because a lot of cutscenes have baked lighting and it confuses me

[barren thorn]

If there was a way to link hash to hash of visible texture properly but propably even if implemented it would be ton of work

[smoky flame]

Should be pretty straight forward but would require some kind of caching because remix would need to convert the normalmaps before first usage

[narrow cloak]

Ughhhhhhhh

Shit, you're right

If it's possible, then it'd improve the visuals a lot

[dull thunder]

Maybe if there was a manual processing step that could capture the games normal map and roughness maps, then generate a mod.usda on the fly

I fear it would cause a lot of lag or high utilisation if it's real time processing

Oh wait, GTA 4 got the regular 3 channel normal maps it needs to be octahedral ones

[smoky flame]

my own imgui window is also fitting in quite nicely I think 😄

and also added an about tab

[narrow cloak]

add my name as "encourager"

[wicked hedge]

so this is done? Where to buy

[wicked hedge]

insanely low vidmem usage

gta sa has like 7 gb at 1080p lol

[smoky flame]

there are still a few things I have to figure out and fix but it's currently undergoing testing with supporters 👍

Would be really nice if the runtime could capture remixapi lights (not for editing but for proper looks in the toolkit)

[limpid path]

saw a lot of people posting screenshots in #showcase

was this mod released somewhere?

[narrow cloak]

Supporters are testing it right now

[limpid path]

ah okay

[smoky flame]

Interesting: performance is really really good when higher above the map but tanks when getting closer. Likely due to the amount of detailed geometry and shader usage. Also found that rendering the water waves costs like 10 fps 🫣

oh turns out I can easily render it via FF. Performance impact is very much gone now

[smoky flame]

got even more stuff to render via fixed function

I can finally reach 60fps on ultra performance 1080p 😂

I need framegen

[fair eagle]

Any ideas how to fix culling (building shadows disappear off camera)

Like in nfs mw adam did fix it, but CPU performance dropped significantly, I'm afraid with GTA4 it could be even worse.

[smoky flame]

I'm already doing some anti culling but have to do some more work to get it perfect. I'm using a cascaded approach. Not cull anything within a certain radius and then have 2 cascades where it only renders stuff that is at least THIS tall or wide

[dull thunder]

Geometry has been fixed with anti culling but in one video xoxor shared I saw NPCs do have some sort of extreme culling

[hollow estuary]

i believe you are referring to how entities like cars/npcs get hard culled due to the game despawning them as they are out of the "view and influence" of the player. but i might be wrong.

[dull thunder]

Yeah let me pull up the video

[barren thorn]

lots of triangles

[amber rivet]

oh shit cant wait to test it amazing work

[dull thunder]

#1412450145051869316 message

You can see the NPC appearing in the reflection, before that you can't see it

[barren thorn]

this one is so freaking huge

from few captures ive got 2500+ textures to work on

this is ain't a project for one totaly

im gonna prepare vertical slice

[dull thunder]

Ah i wish the guys from liberty city preservation project were still around maybe a remix mod could be dropped off real quick

[narrow cloak]

The lighting looks so natural when you have a game with more than 3 triangles per object.

[dull thunder]

Someone posted this above, would this work @barren thorn

https://www.nexusmods.com/gta4/mods/781?tab=description

[barren thorn]

im not gonna test it with modifications atleast i didnt have a plan for now

[dull thunder]

I believe this needs a few finishing touches and a volunteer to basically play the whole game again to find any obvious issues

[barren thorn]

now its important to focus on xorxor native build to catch problems that could be problem on release

best way its just to start working and testing ;D

[dull thunder]

Also can someone from the supporters like get a video of the current mod on YouTube or anything? Or is that not permitted until actual mod release?

Want to see some sort of gameplay in action

[smoky flame]

videos can be posted here but not on youtube 👍

[dull thunder]

I see

[barren thorn]

RTX 5070 12GB has problems with reading scenes from captures on toolkit

i think i should make captures with shorter draw distance or something

[wise osprey]

I‘m so tired of these lazy AI upscale mods people create these days. Upscaling diffuse/color textures only and call it a day isn‘t a good solution. We need people who are also capable to add/improve material textures. A flat looking texture without any shaders won’t look that much more impressive with twice the resolution, especially not with IV‘s huge UV scales certain models have

[narrow cloak]

Such an incredibly based opinion

[dull thunder]

UV can almost definitely be fixed given only some buildings have this issue. Also we got some pretty good AI PBR tools here from the community that can do n/m/r from a given texture with good upscale

[narrow cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/dante-dante-devil-may-cry-devil-may-cry5-hello-hello-based-department-gif-26042779

[dull thunder]

I seriously do not believe someone going to remake all textures individually. Atleast not a single person

[narrow cloak]

Me neither

[barren thorn]

random saxophone guy in the streets cleaned by native trainer

now im just watching on internet pictures of windows in NYC

[wicked hedge]

yes its not going to happen no matter how famous the game

smarter approach, give every texture x2 res normals and add other pbr channels, remake done

[barren thorn]

there is lot of texture streaming going on around

if you make PBR you need to make multiple captures of the same building from diffrent spots and then assing hash

[mighty gull]

No, it’s actually a Remix bug, it happened in GTASA too.
Changing the view angle causes the texture hash to shift, which didn’t happen before Remix 0.5.4.
It’s something the Remix developers need to fix.
For now, you just need to assign the original real texture to the new material replacement.

[lone garden]

ist that called LOD?

[mighty gull]

In the recent Remix builds, some textures suddenly switch to unrelated ones, it’s not a LOD issue.

[barren thorn]

road texture pbr 4k vs og

and one cinematic shot right now for fun

look at those reflections on the car

its mindblowing

[rustic coral]

What program did you use for upscaling?

[barren thorn]

upscaling itself wouldnt make this result XD

this is just beginning of overcoming default gta 4 engine limits of texture size and using actual pbr materials

i thought of making it 8k but i get 14 frames in Ny center

rtx 4060 laptop gpu

[barren thorn]

slowly pbrs are showing up ;D

[dull thunder]

Looking pretty good!

[barren thorn]

rockstar went mad when it comes to diverse buildings in this game there are no short cuts there is need to make pbr out of every building

[barren thorn]

this one definetly feels like a project for years

[quick smelt]

are you doing the pbr textures in blender?

[peak shoal]

Just to be cancelled by Take 2...

[dry inlet]

It's a tricky thing with remix for an open world. This game feels like it must be done because it will look so transformed. But it will be so much work. Both the sheer scale of the game assets/variety, But also capture process /hashes in remix

Well done though guys, i love seeing these images

[dull thunder]

Any automation process would help, probably could reuse some textures and their original normals

[dry inlet]

yeah, havign a robust acceptable lower fideltiy to handle scale, whiel peopel touch up areas.

[dull thunder]

So far lighting is on spot. Matches one to one with the original

[dry inlet]

I think xoxor using of shader constants/params to try and automate pbr sounds good (thats what it sounded like to me, reading comments)

[dry inlet]

How was that done do you know? Inheriting lights/matching?

[dull thunder]

Yes, the lighting data is extracted from the game. Then translated into remix lights using Remix API

[smoky flame]

That + auto adjusting remix settings based timecycle settings (tonemap/saturation post processing and more)

[dry inlet]

that's great, have you discussed with Nvidia about having default integration of any of this into remix? Unless it's not tractable in such a way

[quick smelt]

why is everyone so upset with ai upscaling of the textures? most of the time it actually works really well, even with 4x. And thats like 3 min of work, depending on the gpu.

[tiny stratus]

In my opinion, AI upscaling is a good thing, BUT only when the author double-checks the result against the original texture and fixes any artifacts of AI.

[quick smelt]

Yeah, it needs to be done properly. But its super fast and out of the box nearly perfect.

only the round objects are a mess with ti

[dry inlet]

it does depend on context and scale, lots of times it can go wrong, needs checking, and depends on the ai upscaler

[smoky flame]

Im doing that using the api remix provides. Everything else is game specific code I’m implementing so nothing that should be or would have any use within remix itself

[dry inlet]

gotcha

[wicked hedge]

What upscaler is that

[wise osprey]

Upscaling alone just isn’t enough, otherwise it‘s fine to use upscaling methods, as long as you do it correctly. If the game has weird UV scales like IV + if most textures don’t even come with material maps, upscaling alone won’t help that much to improve the quality to a level where it‘s justified to use AI. Yes it‘s easy and fast, but that’s a blessing and a curse at the same time in my opinion, because it allows people without much experience/understanding to create bad and lazy texture mods without much effort. Then there’s also the fact that AI models are getting better and better each year, so AI texture upscale mods are getting outdated kinda quickly

[rustic coral]

what ai did you use for this?

[bold dome]

You are beta tester?

[barren thorn]

yes

im doing some work on it just to test if replacements will behave correctly

and other stuff

[bold dome]

Noice

And about the Prototype?

[barren thorn]

it was CR Build test nothing more

[bold dome]

sad

[smoky flame]

The texture streaming of the game is reusing existing texture slots and remix is not rehashing the textures?
I had a few UI textures tagged and the game suddenly reused these texture slots for 3d world materials ..

[barren thorn]

yup

alt tabbing the game fixes the texture

[dull thunder]

Does the streaming issue occur when you move into a new area? Such that it overrides existing textures in the texture list?

[barren thorn]

i love this new road

[bold dome]

I want to test

[crimson ruin]

we all want😭

[smoky flame]

hardcore streaming test until it breaks 😄

uh when I select the crossroad texture its displayed as a normalmap

yea and stays that way even tho the texture itself changes

[barren thorn]

was flying around and came to the same spot

and it is not rule to have same spot where streaming fails

but behind you is great spot to make screenshot

damn everywhere i go there is good spot for screenshot XDD

[narrow cloak]

Can we get a screenshot of the city square at night

With all the billboards n stuff

[barren thorn]

hmm why not

im making pbr's for this area especialy

[dry inlet]

Niko is on cloud nine from being path traced

[dry inlet]

Yh tbh this is now my fav remix project

[barren thorn]

after some set up

[barren thorn]

check it out

[narrow cloak]

Oooh

Lovely

Cyberpunk 2

[dry inlet]

V nice

[barren thorn]

i managed to do pbr to building on the right so we see reflected lights in windows ;D

[dry inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/gta4-gta-grand-theft-auto-gta-iv-grand-theft-auto-iv-gif-19897973

[agile horizon]

any videos?

[barren thorn]

no videos for now

xor send some b4 ;D

short ones

[agile horizon]

[dry inlet]

Shall I say the joke? 'We got path traced GTA 4 before GTA 6'

[earnest kernel]

Emissives are so goated

[livid valley]

looks like there are some fake lights?

[earnest kernel]

Yeah I noticed that after the fact

The windows are emissives

Off and on

[agile horizon]

That reminds me, has anyone got those liberty city mods to work with GTA V Enhanced?

[barren thorn]

I was searching internet for months if anybody managed to port libertycity to gta v enchanced

[hollow estuary]

DUDE ICELEGLACE WOULD CREAM IF HE SAW THIS. OHHHHH

[worn fox]

come on guys niko's face needs SSS

and normal maps

[barren thorn]

Sure maybe i will try it

but i didnt have good results with the skin

[barren thorn]

tbh this one gives me the vibes of first the crew trailer idk why X)

[wise osprey]

Kinda reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/Dfv9mVh8V6I?si=qzJhTBGxRPbRWNfJ

[young patrol]

When xorx releases his project you're gonna release your PBR textures, right?

[barren thorn]

i cant promise there is 4000 of them on the deck

[barren thorn]

And I presume that there could be propably double of that in entire game or even more

[barren thorn]

Im damn excited for that day

[barren thorn]

Even if I had all of the pbrs made it will take ton of time to get in to remix render

[wicked hedge]

it just takes too long.

[dull thunder]

Why not divide the work in segmented sections

Slowly getting everything captured and replaced

[barren thorn]

if somebody wants to know

Gta 5 map mod is uncompatible with xor mod

Sorry we cant remix GTA 5 Map

[zenith hill]

can someone try it out with DayL's timecycle I'm curious to see how it looks https://www.nexusmods.com/gta4/mods/396

[barren thorn]

idk if the time cycle mod will work with rtx remix

[smoky flame]

it will (or should)

[smoky flame]

@mighty gull did you create an issue for the texture streaming issue? And if it is related to 0.5.4, does that only happen on builds after the one you mentioned here? https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/rtx-remix/issues/826

[mighty gull]

I don’t think I’ve raised a GitHub issue about this yet, but here’s what I’ve noticed:
Before 0.5.4, the texture streaming issue was there, but it didn’t happen often.
After 0.5.4, things got worse, serious memory leaks.
And with the latest build, there’s a major problem with texture hashes, even just changing the view angle causes textures to switch.
That doesn’t make sense, especially when the object is still in the camera view. The texture memory shouldn’t be shifting like that on the engine side.

[barren thorn]

i love doing these type of materials 😄

hmm maybe they should be a bit darker

just a moment

[wise osprey]

I'm also very curious tbh, but I was too afraid to ask 😆

[barren thorn]

man i just today found out that you are my legend ;D

i can try in a moment

[wise osprey]

Does the RTX Remix stuff work with FF? I have a version in the optionals folder without the new ACES tonemapper requirement, so it works without FF in case you can't use it

[barren thorn]

i will push only update folder

xorxor had to do some changes to fusion

config

[zenith hill]

this just made me realize a minor clever optimization they make when modelling buildings. they extrude a rectangle inwards for the windows on lower floors but not on the higher floors since you usually won't see them up close

[lone garden]

bricks on edges so goofy

[barren thorn]

Displacement map distortion

through paralax effect

[barren thorn]

so um where should i expect the changes?

or what you want to see after installing the mod

[wise osprey]

That might cause issues idk

Can you send me the config, so I can compare it with the default one to see what he changed? Then I can send you an adjusted version of that .ini

[wise osprey]

Make sure you have these settings applied: https://i.ibb.co/jPLyCF7N/Required-Settings.png

[barren thorn]

Um shadows and reflections need to be disabled ;D

water lowest possible

[wise osprey]

Oh yeah that make sense, if you have to do it because Remix handles it

[barren thorn]

light colors seems to be diffrent with your mod

[wise osprey]

Make sure console gamma is off, bloom enabled (if it even works with Remix idk), tonemapper on and screen filter on default

Yes, there's a whole optional included for improved prop lights:

Basically a lite/mini version of ProjectLights 😛

[barren thorn]

i think that weather and atmosphere needs to be done entirely in remix

there needs to be dx9

all of these seems to be connected with vulcan api

[wise osprey]

Try to check multiple weather/time presets. Cloudy midday should look interesting with ray tracing, also night times maybe. Lighting 6pm has a unique style/look. Sunset times for any sunny related weathers are probably interesting too with RTX Remix

[wise osprey]

Sure, I wouldn't expect things to work out of the box

[wise osprey]

Volumetric Fog, Sun Shafts, UnclampLighting, etc. all works with DX9

No idea, if it works with Remix tho

[barren thorn]

it switches for vulkan while im trying to change

those effects are propably shader based

[wise osprey]

I blocked the ability to change certain ingame settings via "frontend_menus.xml", so maybe that's why you can't change certain settings. This should only affect console gamma, tonemapping, screen filters and something else I forgot

pro tip:
don't use my included fronted_menus files for all 3 episodes and use the ones from FF instead to get rid of the limitations

I did that, because a lot of users ignored the required settings and then they even started to complain that console gamma for example looks odd, even if it's not intended to use it at all with my timecycle preset

[smoky flame]

dont adjust any in-game settings because nothing of that translates to remix

eg. no need to enable bloom as that is only toggling the rendering of the post effect in the og game. The timecycle variable will still be interpolated and changed and thats what I'm using to set the appropriate remix variables

if something does not work, that I have not yet translated that or it does not make sense with remix .. or there is not such functionality within remix (eg. lower sky horizon color)

[zenith hill]

don't the sky parameters kinda work since the skydome (I assume) acts as a light source?

[barren thorn]

imagine RTX Remix like you just exported the whole game world into Blender

the game itself becomes just a “model dump” — geometry, meshes, nothing else
and Remix is like Blender’s render engine — it builds its own lighting, reflections, and materials from scratch

all the old ENB stuff — bloom, color filters, shaders — that’s gone, because those belonged to the old render engine that Remix completely replaces

so yeah, you drop that raw model into Remix, then you have to rebuild every material, light, and reflection manually — until the whole scene has proper PBR materials that can react physically right to light

this

i think is a good comparasion

[smoky flame]

sky parameters work to some extend but they don't influence the actual "light output". I had to manually do that and used the skylight multiplier for that

[scarlet pecan]

Amazing! Would you be able to smooth the roads too, please? At some places, the roads are pretty low poly. I would highly appreciate it! The sharp corners of the roads ruin the nextgen feeling

[peak shoal]

Everything can be imporved now, but it will require manual work for many things

[dull thunder]

That's quite an easy but tedious work.

Doing that for all the roads will take ages

[scarlet pecan]

I’m part of a team working on a remake of Mafia 1 in Mafia 2. We encountered the same issue, and I felt it was important to address it.
Unfortunately, I am not good at Blender, so I had to rely on external help to manually smooth every single road (corners, turns, vertical drops) across a map that's nearly twice the size of GTA IV’s map. The original model geometry was terrible. Around 90% of the people I approached told me it was unrealistic, even crazy, to attempt such a task. All of them declined. I even hired a professional 3D artist from the U.S., who worked on it for a few days before refunding me, saying he had better things to do. Fortunately, I was lucky enough to find an incredibly generous guy from India who completed the entire job in less than a week. In the end, it only took a few days. So really, it comes down to finding the right person. Some people don’t mind doing the kind of tedious work others avoid –... like me :P... So I think saying that it is unrealistic to do („Doing that for all the roads will take ages“) is not the right attitude. It is totally doable. But I do agree that it is not a priority now. Let’s master the graphics settings first.

[dull thunder]

I'm not in mood for an argument over what's right and wrong or what attitude it is. Only the dedicated enough will go through it and it will take time and effort, it depends on what you value the most.

[scarlet pecan]

I agree with you. No need for an argument. I was just sharing my experience.

[wise osprey]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, but my graphics mod doesn’t rely on ENB at all. There’s also a version inside the optionals folder that works without any FusionFix features, so you don’t need the volumetrics fog, the sunshafts, the tonemapper or anything else. Might be worth to try this version instead, since it works 1:1 like the vanilla timecycle in terms of functions. So everything that works on Remix with the default timecycle should also work with that one

[wise osprey]

Ask the guy from India again then 😆

[barren thorn]

then again the timecycle reads are not 1:1 with the game

they are translated into remix runtime but in translation layer they are modified by mod

as far as i know

so i cant tell you straight example i didn saw source code

[barren thorn]

i got to knew some italian graphics student few years ago

i was posting him few screenshots from the game i was working on and ,
he stated that there is something wrong with the colors

and i was like it looks good on my screen and explained stuff

so he told me what was wrong and it was my monitor so he taught me how to configure monitor to have neutral colors

and after that screenshots i posted were looking good

so here we have situation where remix translation is like self configured monitor

colors will look totaly diffrent

with it

so this example if you configured timecycle on original game and got good results those might be broken with remix

[wise osprey]

Yeah I understand that Remix needs to be linked/translated to IV‘s timecycle parameters to look as close to the original as possible. But, when Xoxor manages to make it look as close to the original as possible, then my timecycle mod should work just fine too in theory. At least the version included in my optionals folder which works without the tonemapper, volumetric fog, sunshafts, etc.

[narrow cloak]

Monitor config is very important

I try to keep mine calibrated as best as I can just by eyeballing it

Been thinking of buying a spyder but maybe after I get a new monitor

[barren thorn]

some parameters gets multiplied other divided while translation to look good with pathtracer

i saw that when sunset comes with your timecycle mod it throws saturated orangish color but it kinda doesnt match the ambient sky light

[dull thunder]

Is the original tonemapper also linked with remix?

[smoky flame]

If you mean the timecycle color and gamma values, yes

[unreal oasis]

looks like an irl pic for this one

[wicked hedge]

release where

[barren thorn]

☕🍓

[smoky flame]

There are some breaking issues with texture streaming and the game using incorrect textures for objects after a while. That creates problems with replacements but also with texture tagging. Eg. a texture can be tagged as UI but the game decides to override that texture and use it in the "world" while it keeps the UI texture hash ...

[narrow cloak]

You have to donat(e)o to to xoxor

[livid valley]

niko bellic gaming

[lone garden]

no way

is that

YELLOW CAR man

[zenith hill]

waow

it actually looks like leather now

[smoky flame]

Fixed the texture issue boiiis https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/dxvk-remix/pull/113

[barren thorn]

No more streaming issues

[worn fox]

What effect does it have on performance

[smoky flame]

did not notice any

[earnest kernel]

RIP creepy stuff like this

[livid valley]

what the

[earnest kernel]

He is watching

[hidden monolith]

I'll have to test this out with Project64. It also has issues with hashes changing as you go.

[timber perch]

Hi guys, is there a tutorial or any message which explains how to install remix into gta 4?

[lone garden]

just wait release

[dry inlet]

Big brother is watching: 'hey i'm watching here!'

[dull thunder]

Only thing missing is the SSS shadow map

For Niko's head

[scarlet pecan]

How can I quickly identify the texture currently being rendered in-game and locate it in the game files? I am looking for the normal maps of GTA IVSA roads. No matter what I do, I cannot find it

[smoky flame]

Let me know if it helps with your issue

[hidden monolith]

I actually just tested it out not too long ago and it does!
Texture tagging is stable and so are material replacements for the first time.

#1236261405909581896 message
I just posted some demonstrations of it in the Project64 channel.

[smoky flame]

Nice! Will add a link to your post to the PR 🙌

[wicked hedge]

to the testers: How's the performance?

anyone with a casual CPU ?

[barren thorn]

it will have some optimalisation

[dull thunder]

Next gen edition?

[hollow cape]

what about testing GTA VC Next gen edition GTA IV mod

it would blast 🔥

you mean rev team?

no that's not a custom ENB that mod is just what they were using the 'Cry ENB' for when they were making the next-gen mod

[agile horizon]

||hmm account created sep 27 immediately joins rtx remix the following day.||

[hollow cape]

lol gone

[wicked hedge]

what happened ?

[hollow cape]

nothing some random dude just left the server for no reason

[barren thorn]

4k fidelity in gta 4 like damn

its crazy

so incredible how does light work does the work with pbr's in gta 4

[narrow cloak]

I had a stroke

[wise osprey]

What if you try ProjectLights? It comes with light source improvements for over 300 models all over the map. I could imagine that it looks pretty cool in combination with RTX Remix

Optionally get ProjectGlass as well, since it adds cubemap reflections to several transparent glass texture surfaces. But make sure ProjectGlass has a higher priority in your modloader folder

[smoky flame]

Thats not gonna do anything for remix

[wise osprey]

Oh

[barren thorn]

We dont do cube map reflections here

remix doesnt handle shaders at all

we can do only real reflections

[lone garden]

self advertising

[barren thorn]

and how does this mod work??

technicaly speaking

[wise osprey]

It adds/replaces/improves light sources in terms of placement changes, flags, draw distance, etc.

[barren thorn]

can you share link?

[wise osprey]

It‘s in the download channel on my Discord server. No idea how cool it is to share links in here

You‘re on there already afaik

[worn fox]

i wonder if there is a way to reduce roughness on textures that has cubemaps applied to them
instead of manually replacing textures

[narrow cloak]

Post the link. You won't be shot.

[lone garden]

sounds like

[wise osprey]

Would it be possible to translate it like:
If texture uses glass_reflect.sps then do fancy raytracing reflections? 😂

[wise osprey]

Addon/Modloader version: https://mega.nz/file/ZExzCBQb#OaGZfkQDjPg8LrTSTXgYSg4D4gKDINVz6Q6A0LnsDO8

[narrow cloak]

perfect

[smoky flame]

If I can detect that its getting rendered, yea! I already have the ability to set roughness per drawcall

[smoky flame]

I'll look into that

[barren thorn]

if there was a way to delete those fake ambient lights from the game that would be awesome

thats under gas station

greenish ones

for example

there is a lot of them everywhere especialy in apartments or interiors

[wise osprey]

Isn’t that stuff you can theoretically do with Remix? Or does that require a model tool like blender/3ds? I modified all models either with 3DS/Blender and sometimes only manually via text files only aka openFormats

[zenith hill]

can you make lights not cast shadows with remix?

[smoky flame]

bruh I literally added that yesterday 😄
open the map settings tab and select the lights you want to ignore

[smoky flame]

negative

[barren thorn]

i have bit problems with imgui

[zenith hill]

devastating

[barren thorn]

;D

[lone garden]

its like

[smoky flame]

you can also add the hash to the map settings file manually

[lone garden]

can raytracing not trace rays

[barren thorn]

first i would need to visualise the hash ;D

oh alright

X)

[narrow cloak]

How do I play this mod, even?

[barren thorn]

🍓 ☕

[lone garden]

maybe he's about project lights

idk

[smoky flame]

mirrors 👌

[earnest kernel]

Finally after 17 years were getting rid of those nasty low-res render to texture mirrors

[barren thorn]

real raytraced mirrors

[lone garden]

real mirrors

[wise osprey]

Wow this place looks so odd without timecyclemodifiers and all the volumetric effects from light sources in there 💔 Not that I expect that, I know it‘s a lot of work to adjust things to all interiors 😭

[barren thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-wink-yes-gif-12780053

[smoky flame]

How are interiors handled in regards to timecycle settings anyways? Because the "global" I'm getting my values from is also affecting the look of interiors

[zenith hill]

well not really you can disable shadows for selected lights in blender's ray tracer for example

[barren thorn]

this is something more raw

Pathtracer but with a lots of trickery and fakery but it is raw

[dull thunder]

What if those fake ambient lights can be manually removed from the game itself, so remix cannot detect them

[wise osprey]

timecyclemodifiers 1 and 2 are for most open world/mission related interiors. 3 is for cutscenes. 4 and 5 idk tbh. I think the most important values for timecyclemodifiers are the ambient light 1, 2 values, direct light, color correction, color add, gamma and fog

you can find it in pc>data next to the usual timecycle file

[zenith hill]

tbh if you just ignore omni lights you'll probably eliminate 99% of ambient lights with no side effects. can't think of any place in the game that uses them for non ambient lighting purposes

[barren thorn]

oh , those .dat files can be edited easily with any text editor thats cool

distantlights.dat is not

[next estuary]

That would be true only with actual pure naive path tracing, where you really just bounce rays randomly, but if remix did that, all you'd see would be a mostly black screen with some white pixels of noise scattered around

Nobody does pure path tracing

[smoky flame]

what are ambient light values and color add doing?

[next estuary]

Yeah, that sounds like the best option

[wise osprey]

Ambient light 1/2 are for the indirect colors from lighting aka shadows. Ambient 1 is for the x axis and 2 for the y one. Color add basically works like color filters. I can‘t explain how exactly, but it works a bit different compared to the usual color filters which are just applying a color over the whole image

[wise osprey]

Damn that was fast Good job

[smoky flame]

I've manually increased the volumetric scale so still need to look whats going wrong with the translation

[zenith hill]

ambient light 1 is basically bounce lighting and 0 is a sky/constant ambient term. the formula for calculating it is just
float3 ambientLight = gLightAmbient1.xyz * saturate(normal.z * -0.5 + 0.5) + gLightAmbient0.xyz;

[wise osprey]

Oh I‘m stupid af, it was 0 and 1, not 1 and 2 😆

[zenith hill]

I've been considering renaming them and other stuff in the timecyc editor for something more intuitive. the main reason I used the timecyc.dat names is because I thought it would make it easier for people who only edited the file directly before to get used to it

[wise osprey]

All the names perfectly make sense to me, since they‘re also like that in the timecycle files directly as you mentioned. From a rather casual perspective it would make sense I guess, but personally I would never expect that. I also think that people who are really nerdy enough to create timecycle presets probably know what they‘re doing

[smoky flame]

Thanks for that! Nothing I can really use with remix as there is no concept of fake ambient light

[zenith hill]

you get the bounce and skylighting for free with the ray tracing anyway, there is no need for them

[dull thunder]

That was quick lol, though I'm not very fond of finding these lights one by one and disabling them as we go on

[smoky flame]

So if interiors use their own timecycle .. does that mean that outside visuals will be affected when I'm inside and look through the door ?

[smoky flame]

This is just meant for quick adjustments until someone mods the game files. The game will be hella dark without these fake ambient lights. Most need to be deleted or placed onto or near the props that actually emit the light

[dull thunder]

That's one way of doing it, just do all the lighting work required for remix using game modifications

Remix would then only intercept the lights placed properly

[wise osprey]

Yes, exactly lol

In the og game it‘s so obvious that people even reported it to me thinking it was a bug related to my stuff

[smoky flame]

That helps a lot and I only now notice that I've most likely used the cutscene timecycle params for the world

[wise osprey]

Shit happens 😂 Glad I could help with my poor wannabe knowledge

[dull thunder]

Woah

[wise osprey]

It‘s crazy how much different these interiors look like without their modifiers. The purple vibe is completely gone. I didn’t even knew these walls are orange 😂

[barren thorn]

hmmm thats a good reference

[barren thorn]

there is possibility of editing lights but now i just couldnt do that

[barren thorn]

yea it definetly hits diffrent

but this is exciting as hell rn

the glass and the bottles that gives proper reflections

and those iluminating lights placed on tables

lots of stuff is detailed by light right now

looks like a diffrent scene but damn

[earnest kernel]

Looks so good

[wise osprey]

Yeah I really love how glass materials look like with Remix. Great results btw, especially for such a short time

[runic heart]

I mean yeah some of the vibe is lost but on the other hand, seeing some stuff in these videos which was probably impossible before is crazy to see. I'm hella excited ngl.

[wise osprey]

Alone the fact that all of this works is impressive alone. Especially, since we all thought for years that this wouldn't be possible, so yeah you're right

[barren thorn]

people will be crying online that the original game look has been destroyed X)

there is always possibility of doing spotlights that will constantly lighten up with ceratin color scene

[wicked hedge]

people have no idea lol

the Game was held back massively by Hardware already

Alot of style Intention came from that

[wicked hedge]

i can rival that 😄

Pixel perfect too 😄

and zero ghosting

[narrow cloak]

well

obviously

[wicked hedge]

Doing this in RT probably costs less Performance than this way lol

[zenith hill]

see this is why people think you guys are tech worshipers who enjoy desecrating art

[narrow cloak]

Well, I agree with the sentiment but I won't go THAT far, lmao.

[barren thorn]

👨‍🍳

didnt knew that those markers are 3d

[lone garden]

lol

why

[zenith hill]

looks cool

[barren thorn]

added to them glass material and made them less brighter

they were lighting up the scene with emissive light i guess

[barren thorn]

didnt touch for some reasons materials there but i did remove ambient lights

and in places where are lightbulbs that are supposedly lighten up the scene placed points of lights with parameters that make sense for original game

there are a lots of invisible point of lights inside first interior

i was shocked to see

small volumetrics experiments

results are so tasty

[mighty gull]

Some WIP update. Do you notice it😜 , Does it feel like too much?

[hollow estuary]

have you tried using the map editor in openiv?

[barren thorn]

cant see in my version of openiv map editor option

[narrow cloak]

did he take a dip in the pool?

[barren thorn]

he is sweating ;D

[crimson ruin]

textures looks great, but you might need high poly model for better results

[mighty gull]

Yeah, I know, but we don’t want to mod the original game. It’s better to handle everything on the Remix side.
Characters aren’t replaceable anyway, so the best we can do there is swap out the textures.
Other props, though, can be replaced with high poly models.

[mighty gull]

Reference

[narrow cloak]

hmm

Needs a high res normal map to diffuse the reflections

[mighty gull]

Normal and roughness

[livid valley]

where that rtx skin at

[lone garden]

just imagine

it here

[livid valley]

oh ok ty

[barren thorn]

yo
are you creator of "InGameTimecycEditor"

[zenith hill]

ye

[barren thorn]

great

um

you made that mod over imgui?

xor is making this compatibility mod with imgui too, and there is big issue with interacting with spawned menu container

mouse shows up, buttons gets lit when you get mouse on top of them but i cannot click them

or change values

did you encounter those problems with making mod in imgui?

[zenith hill]

I'm actually not sure, it's been 2 years. I think I may have and that's why I hook these 2 DirectInput functions to disable mouse input
https://github.com/akifle47/InGameTimecycEditor/blob/3bf1dbaaafd4da8a6af28ac5ab77495b748e93b5/source/main.cpp#L57

[barren thorn]

thank you so much

[runic heart]

I wonder if those fake shadows on the textures could be replaced with actual real-time shadows

[barren thorn]

there are no fake shadows

there is interesting cutscene light rig tho

[runic heart]

Oh I thought it was baked in, like those cabinet shadows or the fridge shadow

[zenith hill]

oh man I forgot about cutscene lights. they're also problematic with enb because they look way too bright

[hollow estuary]

thats also editable right?

[barren thorn]

if you load the game with or without rtx remix scene will be lit up with tens of point of lights on the scenery

there will be no shadows i think

[runic heart]

But these are not cast from lights I think? I can walk right against them, blocking any "potential" light source, yet they remain there and no shadow of Niko appears when standing right beside the shadows. This is in the normal game of course, as I don't have RTX remix

Only the kitchen light and the light above the apartment spawn makes Niko cast a shadow, or other objects under it

[barren thorn]

those are baked/dynamic i think that they are gone

[barren thorn]

in original game there were i belive lights that had baked shadows , lights that were casting shadows on selected objects, and lights that were making things brighter with some color but weren't casting any shadows

[runic heart]

Interesting

[wicked hedge]

can we get a message when this releases

[smoky flame]

I will ping you

[wicked hedge]

thankss

[bold dome]

I m almost bald waiting

[barren thorn]

🍓 ☕

[barren thorn]

If you dont want to wait just support 🍓

[bold dome]

Ohh, how?

I think only old supporters can test

[earnest kernel]

Pretty sure it was extended to also new supporters

People been joining

[barren thorn]

nope

;D

[rough mesa]

amazing work xoxor, stuff looks great!

[wise osprey]

Any new updates? Gimme some 🫴

[smoky flame]

Sure here are a few things I've got done recently:

• added a feature to ignore specified game lights from being translated to remix lights
• fixed mirror rendering (assigned a proxy texture so that they are easily remixable)
• fixed some minor issues with imgui mouse
• now using the proper timecycle settings for world/interiors and cutscenes
• added some more anti culling options to not cull lights and npc's near the player

[earnest kernel]

Here's a screenshot showing the reflections of in case people didn't see it in showcase

[peak shoal]

Are you guys using also fusionfix with remix?

[barren thorn]

it is possible to have fusionfix working with remix comp mod but after some testing i dont feel like there is need of using fusion fix

[narrow cloak]

What about the gameplay fixes

I don't think anyone cares about the visual changes

[barren thorn]

maybe in that case

[narrow cloak]

But the gameplay fixes would be very helpful

[barren thorn]

it hooks and works

[barren thorn]

till end of the weekend i will push 30 materials of asphalt i hope

XD

i can show some screenshot's but without buildings materials it will be not enough

[wise osprey]

FF also comes with a bunch of gameplay fixes. You can’t even do arm wrestling in TLAD or finish the final mission in IV, because spamming the space key is totally broken with 30+ or 60+ fps by default. Not to mention all the quality of life improvements. It‘s an essential mod that does so much more than just graphical fixes/improvements. Pretty sure these things would be still broken with Remix, since those are vanilla bugs

[zenith hill]

meant to post this before but only remembered now. some CLightSource flags that might be of use:
0x10 = emergency light
0x10 = no reflections/filler light*
0x80 = cutscene light
0x100 = headlight
0x200 = traffic light

*I think it might be worth testing how many, if any, false positives you get if you ignore any omni lights with this flag since afaik you only get that combination with ambient lights

[smoky flame]

Wonderful will try that later today

[smoky flame]

Pretty good! Will keep that disabled by default for now and prob. implement a system to whitelist certain lights sometime after the public release

[earnest kernel]

Very nice

[barren thorn]

you are a freaking beast man

[dull thunder]

This might be a wild question but how could rtx remix be used to recreate the paint shader effect from GTA IV using materials, I've looked at it close enough to realise that metallic paint colours have this glitter/powdercoat feel to it in this game. And I've not been able to create this paint accurately myself many times before.

[smoky flame]

You'd need to pass per drawcall info to remix (eg. via an unused Renderstate) or extend the opaque material similar to thinfilm, then funnel that info to the opaque shader and add any custom shader logic there

eg. like for the gta4 dirt shader:
https://github.com/xoxor4d/dxvk-remix/commit/b7484a9c951200de9247025010e406b3dc4a20bf

[dull thunder]

You would think remix would handle this shader properly?

[earnest kernel]

xoxor managed 7.5k likes AND somehow mostly positive comments on Twitter of all places

[narrow cloak]

lol

I saw this earlier

[earnest kernel]

I expected the comments to be the usual "looks like absolute garbage" that you see under any RT mod online

Maybe this account just has non-toxic followers

[narrow cloak]

Gta fans

Especially gta 4 fans who thirst for every crumb of content

[earnest kernel]

The videos I did on GTA on my channel made me turn off notifications back in the day

[smoky flame]

Keeping the original color palette is the most important thing it seems

[narrow cloak]

Obviously, yeah.

What are you hiding

[smoky flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1424423569588228199/1426688686426427392/Need_for_Speed_Underground_2_2025.10.12_-_05.49.42.04.mp4?ex=68f36321&is=68f211a1&hm=79a614d354d5d5b44f2802037d8ed280b4536dc1282ea08aa9287d5a3523eadd&

this: https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/dxvk-remix/pull/113

[dull thunder]

It is good that the mod isn't getting any unwanted attention, ofc until the mod releases

[agile horizon]

Unfortunately someone did post earlier footage of it on brazilian twitter, the comments and reposts we're negative and uninformed as expected

but yeah, i'm glad it's getting proper positive attention too.

[smoky flame]

looks like one of the very early videos

[agile horizon]

yup it is, the guy didn't get the memo not to share early stuff

[barren thorn]

Sep 1 isnt it from september?

[agile horizon]

ye, a while back

[thorn sky]

Idk how someone could look at that in specific and go "this looks wrong and it has no chance at ever being right"

[barren thorn]

i love this shot ;D

[thorn sky]

For some reason specifically the opposite part of the apartment is burned into my brain lol

Does look cool though

[livid valley]

same here lmao

[frosty wren]

dayum

rtx remix in gta 4

[twin mason]

theres something in the brocolli

[topaz gust]

completely unreal 🔥 vanilla vs rtx

[coral summit]

Holy shit son

Night and day difference

[indigo charm]

why remove the blue and yellow floor / ceiling though ^^

[barren thorn]

hmmmm propably the shader was coloring those walls

[foggy anvil]

I find it funny we can compare the rtx mod to ice enhancer like GTA v legacy on max settings vs enhanced edition

It's a situation where more details pop depending on the eye of the beholder because the graphics are that good in both instances already

However I think the mod still smokes the enb out of the water

I think the real advantage of ice enhancer 4.0 is the way fog and certain lighting looks depending on the scene

[wicked hedge]

Obviously it blows it out of the water you can't compare taster to PT

[earnest kernel]

Don't think I ever posted this comparison here. Maybe people are interested

https://imgsli.com/NDIyODcx Here is a slider

[topaz gust]

Remember the prerendered cgi cutscenes we’d get in trailers and start of games back in like 2000s? The rtx graphics now look like that in real time (complimentary)

[bold dome]

unreal how did you manage to do that ?? I thought gta 4 had fixed render pipeline and it was uncompatible with remix , well done👍

[earnest kernel]

This is kinda neat

[crimson ruin]

api lights doing a great job

[lone garden]

i think its just gta 4 remaster which they all talked about couple of months ago

rockstar donated to xoxor4d

[barren thorn]

XDDD

[crimson ruin]

i saw a lot of messages on X about that take two can easily close this project and that post already have 338k views so i think someone from take two saw it, i really hope that its not gonna happen

[primal pivot]

they're not going to, where do people keep getting this idea

[earnest kernel]

xoxor is not actually modifying the game files

And there are a billion GTA 4 mods out there already

[crimson ruin]

we dont know what on their mind

[primal pivot]

sigh

R*/TT have a pattern of what they will go after

[lone garden]

they will just buy xoxor4d mod, and rename it to GTA IV DEFINITIVE EDITION

[primal pivot]

this doesn't fall under any category that they will be angered by, nor do they have any serious claims that would be acceptable in court

[lone garden]

ez money

[crimson ruin]

aight, but remaking their textures or models and then publishing as your mod is not allowed

[lone garden]

where's u saw that

[crimson ruin]

rockstar assets are under copyright

[lone garden]

why ALL textures mods still exist

why models mods still exist

[wise osprey]

You‘re not wrong technically, but graphics mods are usually fine. R* rather acts, if you convert their assets from one game to another. At least I‘m not aware of any graphics mods for any R* title that got taken down

[crimson ruin]

i dont know but its a fact that the are all under copyright

[storm peak]

those are the modding guidelines by Rockstar Games: https://support.rockstargames.com/articles/5NVOAYjcTomO8v6SX2k76k/pc-single-player-mods

[versed patrol]

Yeah so it's fine as long as you don't sell it or use their stuff, so remix is completely fine

[versed patrol]

aren't you the one that ported every rdr2 vegetation to gta4 ?

[storm peak]

best thing is, guideline says no commercial use, yet almost every major mod for v is locked behind a patreon or something

thats why nve for gta v enhanced was never released behind patreon but released free in the first place

[narrow cloak]

Crazy

[zenith hill]

they took down a 100% savegame for gta4 once

they do not care if your mod is legal or whatever lol they know you won't have the balls or money to dispute the takedown in court against them

the only person who did so far was one of the re3 developers, and they ended up settling out of court after 2 years

[primal pivot]

when did this happen? where?

[chilly socket]

miss the green fog

[thorn sky]

Rockstar does act when they feel like something is somehow going to affect their plans, whether or not those plans are at a glacial pace

If for some reason they decide now is a fantastic time for a GTA 4 rerelease with bonus Ray Tracing added, then they will act on this project

Also the RE3 devs were not the first to be forced into court by Rockstar, do not forget Gaming Damned, who had a graphics mod project for Red Dead Redemption that was meant to be played with Xenia called the Damned Enhancement project, he got so fucked over by it that he's just straight up not allowed to talk about Rockstar or their games seemingly

Oh yes and who could forget everyone on the team that intended to make Mexico playable in Red Dead Redemption 2

So like the whole modding community for that game

In the documents they directly cited the fact they had yet to make Redemption playable on PC and it took them half a decade still to even do that

[zenith hill]

the re3 case is unique because they weren't forced into court but rather chose to take the case to court because they thought they were in the right and it ended up going nowhere afaik

[zenith hill]

https://libertycity.net/news/gta-4/5171-take-two-requested-to-remove-gta-mods.html

[indigo charm]

wonder where Nvidia would stand in those cases, if studios can start to forbid RTX Remix mods

hope their 3 trillions worth is enough to disuade them ~~

[crimson ruin]

you probably know on what side they are...

[crimson ruin]

its enough to buy whole take two lol

[narrow cloak]

Thay'd rather stay quiet

Relations with studios is more important

[tropic pilot]

damn that looks good !

[crimson ruin]

daaaaaaamn

[barren thorn]

me and hemry are open for collaboration
looking for material artists , modellers , enviroment artists and folks who understand well gta iv modding atleast steam version of the game

[proven verge]

thought about making a logo for this project
hope you guys like it

[mighty gull]

Thanks for the effort, but we’re aiming to avoid using any original game Logos in our project’s Logo.

[proven verge]

damn yeah I understand

[wise osprey]

But good logo still, I like the subtle green reflects on the Liberty City part, good work

[mighty gull]

One more thing to mention regarding materials and mesh replacements, we’re focusing on a manual approach.
Please avoid using AI generated PBR materials, especially roughness and normal maps. AI upscaled diffuse textures are acceptable, but they need to be properly de lit to function as true albedo textures.
As for AI generated meshes, we’re currently steering clear of them. We haven’t seen any results with clean topology yet, and it’s important for us to maintain quality.
This isn’t about being anti AI or gatekeeping AI artists, we simply want the mod to reflect the effort and precision that xorxor4d has put into making it compatible, and to deliver a next gen GTA IV experience for true fans.

[bold dome]

Noice

[mighty gull]

Actually, I’ve made a logo already, but it’s probably not the final version.
I’m still gathering ideas and exploring different directions before locking it in

[barren thorn]

Another idea for banner and logo

[worn fox]

nikos face looks off

huh

also getting rid of the fake eye reflection would be nice

[barren thorn]

Early look it was

[mighty gull]

The texture is still a work in progress, not final yet.
Feedback is always welcome, whether good or bad. We’re just aiming to keep improving it!

[worn fox]

have you done anything regarding the hair?

[mighty gull]

I haven’t started on the hair yet, right now I’m focusing on the face, cloth, and pants.
Currently working on the hand, but it’s quite challenging for me to hand paint all the details realistically.

[worn fox]

i think @narrow cloak had some experience with human textures no?

[lone garden]

niko looks

VERY

VERY

goofy and plastic

[mighty gull]

I think he might be using the texture that comes with the character creation software, but I’m not entirely sure.

Substance Painter SS

I’m still pretty new to texturing, just started learning PBR texture last year.
Trying to push the detail as much as possible with what I’ve learned so far.

[unreal oasis]

ngl i wouldve went with redoing the meshes in blender if thats an option tbh

still good tho

[versed patrol]

i'm pretty sure it's not

[unreal oasis]

damn rip

[versed patrol]

also, it looks pretty good like that, i don't think another model is necessary

[mighty gull]

I’d like to redo it with a high poly version as well, but replacing skinned meshes is nearly impossible in most games.

[foggy anvil]

Everything in the Niko model looks good except for the head imo

I wouldn't really mess with it unless it's upping the resolution or adding bump map detail on the hair to look slightly more 3d but not actual geometry

Just slightly smoothing out polygons that look out of place that aren't noticeable unless looking up close

The clothes and hands and everything else looks fantastic

[twin mason]

Satire?

[topaz gust]

Great work lads, excited for this!

I adore the reflections on the vehicles here

[merry grotto]

can someone please make a youtube video showing the mod ? I would love to se a gameplay just driving around the city

[narrow cloak]

Forbidden

[barren thorn]

you need to wait for official release

[earnest kernel]

Are there any flags to filter out fake shadow textures? Noticed there are still some in the game

[barren thorn]

Razed joined the EA group O.O

Creator of Natural Vision for Gta V

[narrow cloak]

Uh oh

Rip NV

[smoky flame]

Are there? The dirt decal shader is a mix of baked lighting and baked shadows

[earnest kernel]

Hmm, I saw it around some poles. might have been the dirt shader. Also underneath billard balls 😆

[smoky flame]

Please post that into the testing thread with a pic and location

[earnest kernel]

Will do 👍

[barren thorn]

car mirrors are managable with mod

[earnest kernel]

Did you create a new mod or added to the present one from xoxor? I tried modding car textures but the changed assets wouldn't load in game

[narrow cloak]

Texture replacement possible on the mirror alone?

[earnest kernel]

The mirrors are part of a car texture map

[barren thorn]

lots of the cars share same texture pattern

[earnest kernel]

That's universal to all cars

[narrow cloak]

Because most mirrors irl are slightly curved outwards to increase field of view. So what games do is make a normal map that curves outwards

[earnest kernel]

Yeah the mirror part is in the middle

I made it glossy, it showed up in the toolkit but not in game

[narrow cloak]

Yeah, so you can make a normal map and slap it on top to widen the fov

[earnest kernel]

That's a good idea

[lone garden]

rt reflections, 8k textures

and

lowpoly goofy ah car

triangle wheel🥀

imagine skinned meshes

[bold dome]

2k textures

test

[lone garden]

i feel that

ai

yammy upscale

[bold dome]

I want to travel to NY and take some brick photos

[worn fox]

displacement maps 🤤

[lone garden]

isn't this is just normals

[worn fox]

im just thinking of POMs

unrelated to the image

[lone garden]

uh

oh

[bold dome]

I put displacement but soft

[lone garden]

ultra very soft

[bold dome]

You can ajust in game

[worn fox]

try finding brick textures from sites

[lone garden]

god damn

that's

disgusting

🥀

[bold dome]

And now?

[lone garden]

even more disgusting

ai generated shit

is original texture 512x512?

[bold dome]

yes

[worn fox]

https://polyhaven.com/textures/brick
@bold dome

[lone garden]

🥀

better just use free 4k textures

instead of ai upscaled goofy ahh glossy guh

[bold dome]

Im just testing

[winter orchid]

would it be possible to add sss to the peds and niko? like in gta v

[zenith umbra]

where can i download the mod?

[lone garden]

wait release

or donate to xoxor4d

[zenith umbra]

ok

[hollow estuary]

Imagine getting a 5090 to run an ai model to generate hd textures n this is what u get.

[bold dome]

I will die

[wise osprey]

A few models also have inverted normals and stuff. I had the idea of a grass parallax mod for IV to make it look more like grass surface textures from GTA V, but noticed that a lot of surfaces had broken normals, so I gave up 💔 No idea, how Remix handles these issues or if you can fix just things through Remix. I expect that you probably need Blender or 3DS Max for that

[earnest kernel]

Can't wait for this texture to be remastered

[thorn sky]

Can people chill the fuck out about ai materials

We're all hobbyists here

[limpid path]

it's just an inverted height map or with the wrong strength...

[runic heart]

Why is your vanilla game a bit blurry and so saturated lol. Here is the same location in my game with two different timecyc mods which make the scene look entire differently (at the same time and weather);

[bold dome]

Trying a new jacket

[limpid path]

the blurriness is probably from the built in FXAA (which can be toggled)

[runic heart]

But the game doesn't come with FXAA by default, FusionFix adds that option (?)

[limpid path]

afaik fusion fix adds smaa?

but the base game had FXAA?

you could turn it on by pressing P iirc

i remember playing GTA 4 all the time before fusionfix and it had that blurry look lol

it's on console versions too

[zenith hill]

I think that's just a frame from a very low bitrate video

[runic heart]

SMAA and FXAA, formerly also SSAA but that has been removed

[runic heart]

Oh you mean the definition toggle, not FXAA 😆

Afaik that was because the blur was scaled at 720p on PC so when definition was disabled, the entire screen would become blurry while still having broken DOF. FF fixed that.

[smoky flame]

lmao

[narrow cloak]

I wanted to play gta 4 today

But my brain was anticipating for more natural graphics

In the end, I just closed the game and did something else

[earnest kernel]

Me when

[lucid birch]

Looks like Bob from Bob's Burgers lol

[earnest kernel]

Path traced mirrors too OP

[reef gate]

serious niko is really serious

[earnest kernel]

In case people are following this thread, here's a video I made of xoxor's mod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-nrhVO_980

[runic heart]

Did you become a Chocolate Strawberry Advocate for this or was Strawberry enough? I'd like to test this out in conjuction with pre-existing mods for the game hence asking.

[earnest kernel]

You need to be Chocolate Strawberry Advocate (Tester)

[runic heart]

Given there are two memberships named that, both will suffice?

[earnest kernel]

I think so, as long as you have tester role you should be fine

I've been a supporter since before there were tester roles I think

[runic heart]

Alright, thank you for the quick answers.

[runic heart]

Well I guess an RTX 3090 is not powerful enough to run this at 60fps

[smoky flame]

It’s cpu / bandwidth bottlenecked a lot of the time

[runic heart]

Is there anything I can do to optimize? I would assume an ryzen 7 5800x3d to be sufficient

[dull thunder]

Did this mod get released?

[lone garden]

nuh

[hollow cape]

is rtx remix compatible with 1.0.7.0?

or only it's compatible with latest version?

[storm peak]

its made with the steam/rgl/ce version in mind

why would you want to go back to the old versions?

[hollow cape]

because I want to see it in VC Next gen mod for GTA 4

[wise osprey]

If it works on CE it should also work on patch 7/8 most likely. Shaders are basically the same for all 3 patches

[smoky flame]

Only on the very latest version

[hollow cape]

oh i see

unfortunately i don't have rtx card otherwise i test this banger in VC Next gen GTA 4 mod

[wise osprey]

Shaders are 1:1 the same on all 3 patches, so I thought so. Is there any kind of scripting involved? Then you need to adjust stuff to the hash addresses from patch 7/8 or something like that of course. Should be easy to make it compatible tbh

[smoky flame]

Shader modifications are not required for compatibility per se. All they do is fix some issue with normals

Everything else is done via memory modifications to the game and I won’t be the one to backport all of the offsets to older versions of the game

[dull thunder]

I assume some necessary hooks are hardcoded memory addresses?

That's why it's just a lot of work to get all versions working?

[wise osprey]

and I won’t be the one that backport all of the offsets to older versions of the game

It’s up to you of course, but that’s the worst part about the IV modding community tbh. Everyone just sticks with one version ignoring all others, while some people have enough empathy to realize that people use different patches too. I always make sure my stuff is as compatible as possible while so many skillful mod creators are rather ignorant related to that 😭 I admit that it might be a bit unfair to say so, since I only do mapping/timecycle/texture related stuff which usually works across all patches without any further adjustments Patch 8 would be enough to be honest. No need to adjust things for patch 7 or patch 4 imo. Patch 4 is only relevant for ENB users and patch 7 is only really a necessary option for people who want to use LCPDFR with all features

[hollow cape]

i think he hooked the render pipeline memory address x0

so maybe other gta 4 versions probably would have different Renderer addresses

[smoky flame]

All memory offsets are retrieved using patterns but most of these don’t work on older versions. I personally don’t care about older versions and want nothing to do with that

[coral summit]

When is the planned release? Anytime soon?

Otherwise I’ll just sub cause this mod looks too fire

[scarlet pecan]

This sad news honestly breaks my heart. Version 1.0.8.0 would be ideal. It supports the Zolika Patch and Zolika Menu with improved First Person settings and most community mods. The 1.0.8.0 fixed the issue when you could not tab out and tab in, which is common for 1.0.7.0 (at least with Fusion Fix). Many in the modding community still rely on 1.0.8.0 due to its broader compatibility with community tools, multiplayer support and patches like Zolika. Supporting both versions could benefit a much wider range of users.

[wise osprey]

That’s true. Don’t forget to mention the Vice City Next Gen Edition total conversion mod, which is also only compatible with patch 7/8

Unfortunately most talented mod creators have this mentality. „I don’t play on this version, so why should I care?“. Sad tbh, but nothing we can do about I guess. Imagine how great IV modding could actually be, but eh 😆

[smoky flame]

I don’t want anything to to with that for obvious reasons. It’s not stopping someone from making it work with older versions once it’s open sourced tho

[dull thunder]

Potentially all that's needed is to give your compatibility mod the right offsets from that version and it would work

Just need someone dedicated enough to do it

[next estuary]

Even a 9800x3d isn't enough

[dull thunder]

I believe it's because you're also running the original GTA 4 renderer as well. Remix is just reconstructing all the geometry again through its Bridge application and applying path tracing (also CPU intensive due to BVH structure building). That's a lot of work for the cpu alone

[storm peak]

makes no sense, anything is possible on ce now

even multiplayer, ignoring the fact that the multiplayer clients are directly acting against rockstars ToS regarding mods

[storm peak]

its compatible with ce as well

[storm peak]

https://github.com/knackers4/vce/releases/tag/vce

[wise osprey]

Didn’t knew that, cool

[wise osprey]

If it‘s not GFWL multiplayer it‘s not multiplayer :trollface:

[storm peak]

afaik, most multiplayer - users are using GTAConnected as of now, and, ignoring that it is forbidden to use it after rockstars terms, it shouldn't be too making that usable on CE as well, since HappinessMP provides all needed information through its source files. (which itself is more advanced than GTAConnected, and thus I don't get why the multiplayer fanbase isn't switching over anyways)

[wise osprey]

I‘m honestly not a huge fan of IV‘s multiplayer clients. I can’t even use FF with them, which is weird. Ironically GFWL multiplayer is the most mod friendly one + most things just work out of hands. It has it‘s problems of course like the kickbug for example, but otherwise it‘s still peak. There‘s a multiplayer event server for IV with over 12K members. They do mp events for GFWL every 1-2 weeks. It‘s still my personal favorite way to enjoy multiplayer, but it‘s patch 7/8 only. Of course you can‘t do roleplay or stuff like that, but personally I was never interested into such things anyways. I just want to play some game modes and maybe some free roam action

[storm peak]

i know gtrf, but i thought they switched to gtaconnected as well

but seems like both GFWL and GTAConnected are used

[dull thunder]

I have bad memories with IV's GTAConnected. Lots of rude people

[lone garden]

gta and rude people

its like

absolutely the same

[rustic coral]

People should just update their mods to the ce edition.

[lone garden]

wise guy

clever words

but no one will do it

lmao

[wise osprey]

Not really, because it‘s not that simple

A lot of people can’t make their mods CE compatible, because certain stuff only works on patch 7/8 such as IV.SDK and IV.SDK.net

So script mod creators have no opportunity

Not to mention that a lot of mod creators aren’t active anymore, so there will be always stuff that only works with older patches

And what y‘all do when IV gets another update in idk how many years? Will everyone willing to downgrade to patch 1.2.0.59 then to try RTX Remix or FusionFix in case no one‘s active anymore to update these mods? That’s the controversial part about IV modding tbh and I can totally understand everyone who sticks with patch 8 for example. Everything made for patch 8 will still work in 100 years while everything that is being made for 1.2.0.59 won’t work in a few years anymore. Keep in mind that even CE got updated over the years from 1.2.0.32 (Or something like that) to 1.2.0.59

People have this “latest version = the best/most stable“ mentality, which of course kinda makes sense in general, but not really with GTA 4

I’m a CE (1.2.0.59) user btw, so I see this from a objective perspective

[lone garden]

ok

[barren thorn]

I know it might sound wrong, but honestly, I’m just glad someone finally stood up and brought us a compatibility mod for this game.
Sure, it sucks that it only works with one version, but still — without it, we might have had nothing at all.

[primal pivot]

there's always the possibility it could extend to more in the future

[barren thorn]

There aren’t many people out there who really understand reverse engineering and are willing to take on the heavy challenge of finding the right render calls, camera hooks, and all the other data needed for Remix.
xoxor4d has been dedicating a huge amount of his time to this lately, and honestly, if he had to make it compatible with every version, it would probably take him four times longer.
Once the source code is released, maybe someone else will step in and expand the compatibility further — but for now, I’m just thankful this even exists.

[wise osprey]

Doesn’t sound wrong at all. At the end I expect this to be something people play around with for a bit anyways, so I don’t really think that people will actually use this mod for proper playthroughs like FF or other mods. I see it as something to play around with. At least in it‘s current state tbh

[barren thorn]

If i can ask , what GPU do you have?

[wise osprey]

A 3070

[barren thorn]

then im happy that we have talented modder interested in this project

compat mod for gta 4 is new open space for future mods

[earnest kernel]

Multiple people are already modding it in the closed testing phase

It's gonna be fine 😆

[wicked hedge]

how it runs?

is it cpu intensive like xorxor says?

[wise osprey]

It would surprise me in a positive way, if that would be the case when it‘s released, but I don’t have much hope tbh. I‘m creating mods for this game, since I‘m 13/14 years old, which is basically 1:2 of my whole life and there weren’t a lot of people who had enough passion to fully improve the games visuals on a huge scale. I‘m basically the only person I can think of who created proper retexture mods for this game (No upscale only bullshit), material improvements for models around the map and light source improvements for map related parts (And props). At least over the last years. DKT70 created some really nice road textures for the game, but that was over a decade ago. The fact that we don’t have anything else road textures related kinda proofs how passioned people are actually about when it comes to IV modding unfortunately 💔

I don’t say there aren’t any other road texture mods that got released over the years, but actual good ones? Sadly no

[wicked hedge]

yes , it will not happen, no one will create thousands of textures

[wise osprey]

I‘m honestly kinda afraid that something like this could happen 😂

[thorn sky]

I would also be stubborn to move from certain versions of a game

It's usually not as simple as "just make it compatible with the new one" because a lot of stuff could change between them technically to where you're basically remaking everything you already made

Sonic Adventure DX for example has a 2003 PC version and a 2010 PC version and so much research went into 2003 that 2010 which is the one you get through steam is essentially incompatible with anything done before

And even then there was this awkward transition period where we had the Mod Loader existed but stuff was still kinda distributed as exe mods and raw files you would copy and paste into the game folders

In the Sonic modding community in general this has been dealt with a lot since 2017 because SEGA insists on including Denuvo in their games, which means even something as simple as Sonic Mania was entirely different if they decide to push any update at all. They eventually just removed it for some reason but there's still a lot of stuff that was abandoned when that game's mod loader enforced the latest patches.

[runic heart]

Make it optimized for ARM and I'll try running it on an Apple M4 chip with their superior IPC, being even faster than AMD 9000 series

[wicked hedge]

just a random thought i had, if rockstar really decided to sue this, wouldn't they indirectly sue Nvidia Corp? Has anyone read the TOS of remix per chance?

im not a lawyer or anything but, you know

[dull thunder]

Usually with most games we are not directly modifying the game itself for remix compatibility. I wonder what category does DLL hooks fit. Because even that's not changing anything on the game client.

[earnest kernel]

M5 seems to be great at RT too, wonder how RTX Remix would perform on there compared to AMD cards

[smoky flame]

Well I had to reverse engineer parts of the game which kinda breaks their EULA but r/e should be fine in the EU. They can still issue a c&d if they feel like it. It's their property at the end of the day

[runic heart]

I don't think its that big of a deal given you dont mix IP and you arent working in multiplayer related stuff, those are the most common instances of T2 stepping in

[smoky flame]

Added a new texture category to disable backface culling for selected textures. That way we can fix some of the culling issues without disabling all of the backface culling within remix

[dull thunder]

Can this texture category be merged into the main build? I saw a few issues like that elsewhere so it would be helpful

[smoky flame]

Would be possible yea

[barren thorn]

funny thing, an artist reached out asking if it’s a paid position 😅
kinda made me feel bad for a second, but honestly RTX Remix is a gray area — paying for mod work could easily end up with legal issues 😂
if someone ever manages to run a Remix project with paid artists, that’d actually be awesome — but I haven’t heard of any like that yet
for now it’s all volunteer work, contributors get full credit and can showcase everything in their portfolio

especialy messing with R*

it would be cool to get love letter from rockstar XDD

nonetheless idea is cool , to do project with paid professional artists but who have money for that.

[narrow cloak]

I don't see why paying artists could end up with legal issues

You're supposed to talk about and finalize all terms before they start work

[barren thorn]

in the end to pay modders mod itself should be hidden behind paywall

and thats whats problematic

[narrow cloak]

That's beside the point. One could also pay out of their pocket. It's rare, but it happens.

[undone pilot]

I don't think it's fair to say it stems from a lack of empathy on xoxor's part (or likely any other mod creator's tbh). As a creator yourself, you know that they often require a huge time investment by skilled people (and usually without financial reward); to then criticise others as lacking empathy for not having the desire to duplicate all that work again is simply unreasonable, especially if they open source the mod.

It is a shame how few people have this skill-set though. I'd love to give a try for some older games but even with a background in comp sci it's quite daunting. Would you be willing/interested in producing a tutorial on your Patreon someday xoxor, or if not are there any resources you'd recommend?

[undone pilot]

Does anyone have any examples of some millionaire bankrolling something like that? You'd think it would have happened at some point given the other stuff they like to throw their money at.