Painkiller

[tall iron]

ok i'll check it out now

"Transformer Model D" ?

[noble beacon]

Yep

[tall iron]

btw it just crashed out again

like i turned on that Transformer Model D and it crashed when I started fighting the enemies... lets see if i can replicate it

okay i think the crash is caused by turning the Indirect Light Enhancement Mode from Normal Difference to Laplacian

[noble beacon]

Remix settings are treacherous

You never know what will crash the game next

Gotta go

You might want to enter the Painkiller RTX discord, it's more in depth so to speak

[noble beacon]

@light palm

[tall iron]

so this is with Transformer Model D turned on

for reference this is with Transformer Model D turned off which is the default, which looks better

a comparison between Transformer Model D on and off, with DLSS at full resolution

[noble beacon]

You can also update the DLSS dlls that most probably include some improvements
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/drivers/

Grab these 3 and drop in Bin/.trex

just make sure the display drivers are up to date

[noble beacon]

Btw you can toggle "Always developer menu" checkbox in the upper of the devmenu

You can also pick between different GI solutions like ReSTIR/NRC/Importance sampled

Some people claim that ReSTIR does a better job as of right now

It's in Alt+X/Lighting/Indirect Lighting

You can try to figure out how to train NRC most properly but it's plain impossible if you're not aware what you're doing bruh

[tall iron]

i downloaded these new DLSS files, and maybe they make a tiny difference overall but not with that shadow

i think the problem is fundamentally a lack of sampling for that shadow effect

if you can force that sphere light to be sampled more often at the cost of some performance, it could look better

[tall iron]

is it just me , or do the holy items no longer give light?

[north kiln]

the amiance of painkiller have really something

[tall iron]

if it is on High preset, the flames do not give as much light as the Ultra preset

[tall iron]

a quick little test between ReSTIR and NRC

I think ReSTIR looks better than the Neural Radiance Cache

[tall iron]

in Cathedral now... some strange sampling artifacts here

[north kiln]

i have ajust a bit the post processing i like bloom.

crab i have want find a GIF of bloom effect it's have show me Bloom from Winx Club

damnit i'm tired need some sleep...

[tall iron]

I've been playing through the levels in order, in 0.17 ... the Holy Item in Atrium Complex glows, but the ones in Catacombs don't ... in 0.16 you could see the glow of the Holy Items in the Catacombs and it was a neat clue for finding them

[noble beacon]

they should definitely glow

mora go check

[tall iron]

[they dont](#1313627595815911448 message)

[north kiln]

oh okey i will see if i have the same

they are emissive for me

[kindred haven]

Ugh those edges 💔 💔

[north kiln]

?

[light palm]

volume culling achieved after over 120 hours of assembly

[kindred haven]

The creases and edges of the walls and floor

[light palm]

before and after performance

with pathtracing

almost double

this is the most complex engine modification by far

[north kiln]

it's still in progress for the moments it's still the original maps assets. the improvment of the geometry will come with futures updates.

[kindred haven]

Awesome 💪

[north kiln]

they are not a big team studio for AAA games or a group of few fans studio like for hl2 remastered it's will come with the time? right now it's in 0.1.7.1 and few fix for that update are on the road.

[light palm]

hl2rtx has a bigger team than us, for sure

[kindred haven]

Mentioning it cause I feel in geometry like this that POM might make it look worse u feel me?

Like no need for height maps and such

[light palm]

join the team, tweak the values in toolkit 😄

that would be super helpful

geometry or debris in the corners would be awesome

plants

CANDY

[kindred haven]

Traveling soon and I already have a project I wanna try be busy with sadly, tho I do recommend trying just disabling Pom in that section and see how it looks

I would genuinely wanna try and have fun tweaking it tho and see what works

[light palm]

its super fun for sure

making stuff look really nice

[pallid saffron]

Damn nice very well done

Is it something that would come soon or still months away?

mind you that I have a real surround sound setup through HDMI / AV Receiver

I downloaded https://github.com/kcat/dsoal and put EAX=true in the config file and that's it. But no DirectSound3D Hardware option, only software. Still it works well, sound is surround and EAX is checked

[tall iron]

Thats why the Creative Alchemy method is better

[pallid saffron]

but would that even work without a Creative sound card?

[tall iron]

What about the exact secret area I showed, in Catacombs?

[tall iron]

Thats why its called Creative Alchemy Universal, a hacked version which doesnt check which soundcard you have

[north kiln]

it's at the pestifer town

[tall iron]

Open Catacombs and look at the Holy Items there

[pallid saffron]

hmmm i think with DSOAL its supposed to work also , this guy description is using that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBA2vbxAS4A

[tall iron]

Not sure what exact setup he has, but the link i posted worked for me

https://steamcommunity.com/app/39530/discussions/0/620712999990243195/#c598198356175347658

https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/68-creative-alchemy/

[pallid saffron]

works indeed, thanks

[tall iron]

https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/28-creative-alchemy-universal/

[tall iron]

This is in Prison , you can see that the Holy Item here does not glow

[noble beacon]

As a matter of fact, these relics are no longer emissive. What you see in these cases is a placed light instead of an emission mask applied to the Relics material
My guess is that Adams ditched emission masks to make these look more detailed and simply did not put all the lights in place yet

How it was in v0.1.6 (emissives)

[light palm]

edit oh.. not sure how to get hardware instead of software, im using software

all i did though was put these in my painkiller/bin folder

and i was using this

[north kiln]

@tall iron PS: i'm not in the development of the game

[tall iron]

the game thinks that its 'hardware' when it detects a 'Creative sound card' , which Alchemy emulates in software

back in 2004 you needed a real soundcard to get these effects, but nowadays the CPU is fast enough to simulate everything in software

[light palm]

did y'all see i made the volume culling system to almost double performance

https://tenor.com/view/where-you-at-gif-21177622

😄

i'll chuck it up on moddb once i fix a few other bugs

[tall iron]

it seems that there are 3 types of Holy Item models ... the cross, the chalice (thin cup) and goblet (round cup) ... the cross glows all over, the chalice gives light from inside the cup part, but the goblet does not glow at all

[tall iron]

cant wait to see it... my freesync monitor bides in anticipation

[pallid saffron]

this kind of update doesnt require to redownloaded assets right?

[light palm]

nope just some tiny files

[noble beacon]

I did some tests and forgot to post💀

Any idea why it drops performance even when clip pane is low when looking at that direction in Docks?
https://youtu.be/dcY12WCuuBc

the second direction in the vid, the first works well

39FPS

Sky light disappears in Catacombs at exactly 320+ clip pane value

[light palm]

it is volume culling so performance is not based on where you are looking

it is based on where you are standing

volume around player in all directions

[noble beacon]

Gime 10 sec

[light palm]

you can use the free camera to check how it behaves. with standard frustum culling, everything behind the player is not rendered, which causes problems for pathtracing

[light palm]

yes, i am currently doing a deep dive in the assembly to determine how to force citem dats to always be rendered

[light palm]

ahh i see what you mean. performance is worse when looking away from the level

your computer is just lazy is all

doesnt want to render frames

jokes aside, perhaps you could use the remix free camera to see if the culling behind the player is drawing more objects when you are looking away compared to when you are looking at

[noble beacon]

More apparent here. 2 sides of the level

that first direction is cursed

[light palm]

is it the same behaviour when you rename d3d9.dll to d3d9off.dll

ie. without remix

[noble beacon]

Yes

[light palm]

i think there are beans in that direction

just dont look over there

[noble beacon]

I think that exact problem affects performance when you jump off the crane and start gameplay sequence

[light palm]

please check if there is a difference in which geometry is getting culled when you are looking away vs when not looking away, using the remix free cam

[noble beacon]

10 sec

[noble beacon]

Yes

Clip pane 322

It's rendering cargo crates on the ship when looking away

Looks like the volume in the back is very large or isn't affected by the setting

So when you turn your back to the whole level, like here on Docks, it's all rendering far in the distance behind you

[tall iron]

I wonder what happens if you do the same thing again, after you adjust the Clip Plane setting?

[noble beacon]

Okay, it's not relative to the camera direction, but to the world axis

it's only rendering everything behind you when you're looking there

But not when looking there

[noble beacon]

That's why it performs different in these vids

[noble beacon]

It is actually affected by the clip pane value, it's like it's multiplying it somehow

Very low clip pane, renders not everything but still more than needed

[light palm]

thanks for testing mister @noble beacon ! i think i have enough data to fix this

[light palm]

more than double the performance with the fixed version

almost triple

[pallid saffron]

Guess I’ll wait that release to continue

[tall iron]

any updates? should I download the hotfixes?

[light palm]

as the aabb volume culling patch changes the rendering behaviour so significantly, it requires sweeping changes to a whole variety of things in game before public release

ie. lights can no longer be tied to arbitrary scene geometry, which was occasionally the case earlier, as all scene geometry was always rendered previously

to get value from the performance, render distance must be set lower. currently it is set to about 5000 meters by default, but we want to set this to 100 meters.
this was due to tagging the skies as "sky" to force them to render in non-pathtraced mode and composite them in the scene later, as it was near impossible to get pathtraced skies looking correct with issues with alpha and volumetric contribution on emissives in remix. however tagging the skies as sky then revealed the base engine behaviour as simply not drawing anything beyond the clip distance, (which is different to culling) which then necessitated the very large draw distance.

so setting the clip distance to 100m then necessitates getting emissives working properly in the pathtracer, hence my recent PR to dxvk-remix to fix this

and now that the skyspheres are rendered with the pathtracer, they now block distant lights, necessitating rescaling the skyspheres and/or repositioning/reconfiguring the distant lights.

so this requires quite broad changes to basically every level before release

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-day-its-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-conspiracy-conspiracy-board-gif-16269829

[noble beacon]

There's no :Binq_pls_fix: on this server and it's infuriating

[light palm]

it's truly a "there's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza" scenario

[tall iron]

But at least the coding part is done now, and what's left is the content part?

[light palm]

yes, uni starts up again for me tomorrow though so there may not be much time for me to do these things

[tall iron]

Well i think we can all contribute with content

[tall iron]

im going to check it out as it is right now, 0.171 with the 3 hotfixes

[light palm]

yep

[tall iron]

I think that replacing original textures with emissive materials is better than manually placing lights everywhere

the 'chalice' Holy Item with its directional glow is nifty and matches some depictions of the Holy Grail, but I think the cartoony look of emissive materials like in 0.16 better matches the aesthetic of the game

maybe some parts of some levels might be under-lit, I think that is when some intervention and artistic liberties are warranted ... IMHO it should be kept to a minimum

[noble beacon]

The Pathtracer wouldn't like that, Emissives and Primitive lights are processed in different ways. Emissives are hard because the actual light source is obscure and consists of many many triangles instead of a single object (light)

Emissives produce more noise because they are pathtraced in a different way

[noble beacon]

I agree, I also like how Holy Items magically glowed in v016

[tall iron]

for small objects like the Holy Items and the majority of gameplay objects, noise shouldn't be an issue... its only a problem for level geometry with large and diffuse emissive surfaces

which could require manual tinkering to stop the light shimmering

like i wouldnt mind loading up a section of the game with a particularly bad shimmering problem, then capturing the scene and start hacking away at the lighting parameters to make the shimmering go away

[tall iron]

wow, i can't believe its taking 3 hours to download these hotfix zip files from google drive

[noble beacon]

There's no lighting parameters of Emissives, there's only intensity
You don't choose between emissives and lights, you combine them

emissives to give a glow to the surface and lights to actually cast light

[tall iron]

so this is different from Blender (and other pathtraced 3d modelling programs) where emissive surfaces do cast light

but actually in RTX remix, emissive textures do cast light under certain conditions

[noble beacon]

emissives do cast light

[tall iron]

https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/rtx-remix/issues/875

[noble beacon]

but they are treated differently by the pathtracer

you don't want to rely solely on emissives

[tall iron]

yeah its not as efficient as point light sources, according to the tooltips in the RTX remix app

[tall iron]

"it was near impossible to get pathtraced skies looking correct with issues with alpha and volumetric contribution on emissives in remix"
question, why does the sky need alpha and volumetric? can't it just be like a HDRI background ?

[light palm]

Hdri background is emissive

And I want multiple layers with clouds etc

I'm convinced the alpha system in remix is broken

[tall iron]

yes have a static background which only serves as the base background lighting for the level

for the cloud layers , the correct way is to include it within the 3d level itself

i mean it would also look pretty epic if the clouds were extra low

and i think that its wise to keep the content interventions as simple as possible, because you dont know if the underlying code and mechanisms might change

for example the thousands of lights that you manually placed, now its a problem with the draw distance, etc etc

[light palm]

the skies geometry already are implemented through the base game

[tall iron]

can it be swapped out with Remix?

actually it looks like that's exactly what you've done

[light palm]

and about the lights, the base game did not have lights which could be interpreted by remix. speaking with the engine developer, the painkiller lights are not like other games where they can be interpreted by remix as dx9 lights. they are instead converte to directional lights per object, and 4 nearest light points are picked and converted to directional and passed to the shader or ff pipeline.
the lights which are placed in the editor are not traditional dx9 lights and cannot be interpreted by remix. they are also placed very, very approximately, so even if they could be interpreted by remix, would require manual adjustment anyway.

what i did was make a python script which converted the level light placement data into usdas for remix, and then modified them in toolkit, and added many more.

[light palm]

i did both, reimplemented the entire sky system in the base engine, and then replaced anchor geometry and textures with higher quality ones in remix.

there were only a few lights, because they were only placed in painkiller in those places where they wanted dynamic lights on the weapon, characters and dynamic objects. all of the other lighting was simply baked through maya, and those light placements are not available information and had to be visually inferred and manually placed

[light palm]

i have already started work on mesh clouds using sss to simulate volume rendering. i dont have much hope that it will end up working well, but it would be cool. might we wiser to contribute to remix to get more control over the volumetrics more directly

[tall iron]

what is sss?

[light palm]

subsurface scattering, ie. rtx skin

but i want something more like ray marching

for clouds

which the volumetric system in remix is more akin to

[noble beacon]

https://youtu.be/8tkWBM0Tijg?t=610
10:10

[tall iron]

woah i didnt notice that , the marble texture spreads the light from the flashlight like that

[noble beacon]

https://youtu.be/wtSNY6nF1U8?si=okXPn5CJZauoltr8
Also a cool example

[tall iron]

that could be cool in very specific situations...

it reminds me of using translucent materials to simulate living tissue, like where there is simply a light source behind the fleshy thing you are trying to depict , and the light gets scattered all red and stuff from the blood under the skin

[tall iron]

Maybe the clouds can be added in at a later update, as a quality of life improvement to the mod?

[tall iron]

Hmm now that I've read over what you typed... perhaps its better to start with a clean sheet, rather than trying to hack raytracing into existing geometry

like, having a truly modern HDRI background to completely replace the old geometric background, you wouldn't need to worry about draw distance etc anymore

[tall iron]

I don't understand this part, I am assuming that the skysphere is centered on the player/camera position ... and it would occclude everything, including level geometry, not just lights?

[tall iron]

i just unzipped 0.171 directly into my Painkiller install, over 0.17, and now the game is borked :/ it crashes when it tries to load a level

did it need a clean install?

[light palm]

if you have a folder with hotfix or whatever in the name sitting in your painkiller directory you might need to move the folders out of that folder into the painkiller folder

SSS on off

[noble beacon]

Is there a tool that allows creating such all in one HTML files for comparisons or did you ask LLM to make it?

[light palm]

icat does it

all in on

nvidia tool

[tall iron]

this looks super noisy to me and you can't even see the shape of the shadow, unless i set DLSS to full resolution

[noble beacon]

Nothing super noisy about it?
The noise pattern is dust particles that can be disabled under Volumetrics dropdown

[tall iron]

i mean the shadow is noisy and badly defined

[noble beacon]

Well it's pathtracing at 720p with Framegen

[light palm]

shadows in real life are not always crisply defined. that light in particular is intentionally not crisp

you can simply change a parameter in the light setting to have it crisp

[tall iron]

with DLSS , the shadows look malformed, indistinct and shimmery... it only looks right when it is set to full resolution

this angle shows it off better... look at the shading on and around the staircase

full resolution makes it look much more stable

[noble beacon]

It makes perfect sense

[tall iron]

there must be some way to optimize that particular light to work better with DLSS

for example, the shadows from the windows in Cathedral look clear in DLSS

[noble beacon]

It is probably because shadows in Cathedral are closer to the opaque object or something

In any case it's computationally easier to make this look stable

Volumetric settings also play a role

different levels have different volumetrics

[tall iron]

This wouldnt be an issue if there was a true 'sunlight' light source in Remix, where the light rays are parallel and cast to infinity and the distance does not matter

[light palm]

there is, the problem is 1) it doesnt shine through skyspheres
2) it covers the whole "world", and this is not wanted in games which used non physical lighting like painkiller, where some areas are sunlit and others aren't, for no obvious reason other than style.
That wouldnt be a problem if you could block the light with single sided blocking planes, but these planes only appear single sided in the toolkit, once you go in game they are double sided and you see planes floating in the sky.

[tall iron]

i guess you have to take the 'global' part of global illumination seriously

[tall iron]

im trying to open the mod in RTX Remix and its complaining about something about the City On Water level

Error in 'textFileFormatYyerror' at line 3162 in file pxr/usd/sdf/textFileFormat.yy : 'syntax error at '' in </RootNode> on line 31 in file C:\aaaaaaaaaaa\PKRTX_C5L1_CityOnWater_Sky.usda

[tall iron]

fixed it... it was a missing closing bracket

now theres another one

Error in 'textFileFormatYyerror' at line 3162 in file pxr/usd/sdf/textFileFormat.yy : 'syntax error at '' in </RootNode> on line 13 in file C:\aaaaaaaaaaa\PKRTX_C6L4_Pentagon_Sky.usda

another missing closing bracket

[north kiln]

@tall iron you have join the dev team?

[tall iron]

No im just messing around

I got tired of seeing the goblet Holy Item not glowing so i am making it glow

[light palm]

Hehe I just fixed that before I read this

Emissive texture almost completely black

[tall iron]

Are you going to release it?

[tall iron]

its a good thing that all three Holy Items use the same texture, just different parts of it... this means that i can black out the sections for the cross and the chalice, and only work on the goblet section

but i only have the original low res textures...if i load it as the emissive mask to get the glowing effect, it replaces the high res textures which came with the mod

[noble beacon]

You really appreciate this part of the game when you roam around out of fight

https://youtu.be/blPHmUEy6dE?si=Y-5gxJqNHbFB6t6s

It's so different when you're not in a fight and the ambience just hits hard

some levels do have quests like destroy all objects or find all secrets that make you experience this

I mean I imagine it's difficult to admire things like that if you play the game for the first time in 2025, but for those who have been playing it since decades ago, it means a lot 😄

[light palm]

whats that thing where ppl love sounds

its like that

jeez my brain cant words. i have the dumb

[noble beacon]

It's called absolutely crazy job they've done on the SFX

The game is really special because of this

[light palm]

it is super cool background sounds for slowly flying through levels looking at really cool RTX stuff

i figured out what the problem was with fog disappearing when draw distance was set too close btw

Portal RTX's fault

😄

[noble beacon]

Makes sense

I almost mentioned it

[light palm]

the hardcoded value?

good code comments really helped though

[noble beacon]

No it's just that I was like "nah mate surely it's all because of Portal RTX can't be anything else naah"

[light palm]

haha keep up that pristine aussie vernacular and you'll earn yourself an honorary citizenship 😄

[noble beacon]

I'm working on it

[light palm]

Phd. in Mike Nolan show

[noble beacon]

Yank train

I need work visa hire me as a concubine

[light palm]

i like setting my pc to 4k ultra DLAA and recording video in slow motion at 1fps then speeding it up 60x in davinci resolve

now get this

if only i could stand next to a black hole

[noble beacon]

doesn't it cause some temporal disaster

[light palm]

and put my computer further away

it would look like it was running at high fps 😛

[noble beacon]

I would not recommend.

[light palm]

[noble beacon]

There are shops where you can buy hardware

Australia also has a currency (cash) to buy hardware

i think standing next to a black hole is suboptimal

[light palm]

i pay with interpretive dance

[noble beacon]

but what do i undestand me little skill issuer

[opaque badge]

@noble beacon can you upload your rtx.conf here by any chance plz

[light palm]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-dance-dance-moves-slow-dance-grooves-gif-16592599

[noble beacon]

It's either stock v017 or with some changes that break the game

Call it

[light palm]

most of the PK specific stuff is in dxvk.conf

i tried to leave the rtx.conf empty for people to save their individual quality settings etc

[opaque badge]

oh ok, cuz i want that fog back in the start of the game

[opaque badge]

ok ok

[noble beacon]

Set clip plane to like 300

it should return

[light palm]

hmmm when did it go

ahh yeah

clip plane affects everything

https://tenor.com/view/everything-is-connected-neil-degrasse-tyson-startalk-everything-is-related-everything-is-linked-gif-20161060

[opaque badge]

ye it works thank guys

[light palm]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-emoji-rage-gif-3851471549750385303

[noble beacon]

I absolutely adore that emoji

[light palm]

oh man what a great emoji it is

[noble beacon]

You can use it in any situation and it won't seem out of place

you fixed a longstanding issue?
something completely broke apart?

burial?

that little rippa

https://tenor.com/view/avustralya-commonwealth-of-australia-avustralya-milletler-topluluğu-australia-gif-5912151737590097540

[light palm]

wombats get far too little attention

kangaroos steal the spotlight

[noble beacon]

they take funny shits

that's all I know

all there is to know

of relevance

[light palm]

regular hexahedrons

[opaque badge]

yo im facing an issue that no lights rendering for me

when i used older version maybe a month ago i dont have that issue then

devs do you know how to fix it?

[noble beacon]

Open Alt+X Developer menu - Game Setup - Categorize Textures and click at that blackness in the sky

[tall iron]

i play with EAX 3 with its virtual 3d headphone sound

[noble beacon]

You'll see a list of tags, check "Sky Texture"

[tall iron]

yes the sounds are one of the better aspects of the game

[tall iron]

this is City On Water, afaik there is a missing closing bracket in the .usda file for the sky for this level

[tall iron]

huh for some reason its not playing the video anymore

[noble beacon]

is it MP4?

[tall iron]

yes

let me try again

this is with the emission mask that i edited

the 'cross' holy item also has a jewel in the middle , that is included in the emission mask... but the way that the light source is set up for it, its not really visible

[noble beacon]

Mate wtf is that CPU temp sensor

Also you don't need to call wattage values so often, it most certainly takes some CPU time

Monitoring overlays can be treacherous

[tall iron]

i'm intense like that

the jewel in the middle of the cross is supposed to glow as well because that's how i edited the emission mask... but you cant really see that effect so well because of the extra light source that was added in 0.17

the base of the cross lights up nicely though, i think its sharing the same section of the texture as the goblet

it makes me so happy to see that the sparks on these guys actually glow now

[noble beacon]

Actually this item looks like this rn

Okay I got it

Remember I asked to delete emission mask path from the USDA?

That was the path to the mask packaged via RTXIO

And seems like Binq Adams did not finish that mask at the time

So it only illuminates parts used by the cross

:Binq_pls_fix:

Idk how to repack those pkgs

[tall iron]

Okay that kind of looks epic

Im wondering, if its possible to attach particle emitters to objects, like how you attach lights to objects

Having a little flame burning on the cup would look so oldskool

Like maybe the chalice can have the glowing jewels and the bright light from the cup, like how it looks like in my video... while the goblet has the flame

[noble beacon]

Particle emitter is a texture tag

So you need to spawn a mesh in holy item's proximity to apply that tag on using LUA

[north kiln]

big boy

[tall iron]

loving the old school claymation look

the boss battle itself is kind of lame though, either instant death when he attacks, or you have the right card combo to defeat him effortlessly ... i think theres a term for this in gaming but it escapes my head at the moment

[tall iron]

so this is a thing on the Painkiller modding side, not the RTX Remix side?

i know that in Blender and UE5 , you can attach a particle emitter to almost anything

[north kiln]

https://youtu.be/9rdQsmofI4k?si=GE36uyP2_ZAPSdgG

[tall iron]

can something be done about the noisy lighting in this area?

it seems the noise comes from the direct lighting

makes me think... why not use non-raytraced methods for direct lighting, which is a problem solved a long time ago... then use raytracing for indirect lighting, which is its greatest strength

[light palm]

hmm usually serious noise in direct lighting is a light setup mistake on my part, it may be due to the high intensity "distant" (actually sphere) light coming in through only some cracks in the roof.
Or I might have put a tiny light with really high intensity in some places.
It was a long time ago when I placed a lot of the lights, before I learned some of the best practices, like trying to keep the intensity within reason, and avoiding intersecting lights with geometry.
So there is definitely room for a lighting optimisation pass.

[tall iron]

good to know... there is so much more potential here

[light palm]

painkiller is an amazing platform for this tech. I'm focusing mostly on the quasi-nuts'n'bolts, but this is becoming a beautiful, mostly empty canvas for some digital maestros to come along and fill with art

[tall iron]

i'd love to jump in and capture that scene and tweak the lights to make the noise go away, but it seems the way that the mod is packaged makes it impossible for me to access anything that i didnt make myself

[light palm]

you can extract the .pkg files, its a little bit of a pain, but doable

and you can also extract the .pak files

no third party tools needed for the pak files, extraction/compression is bundled with painkiller there

i believe the main benefit of rtxio in this case is loading speed / performance. in theory there should be better 1% lows for certain system configs

the 10gb "installed" size savings isn't of huuuuge concern to most users afaik

using rtxio did not get me any savings on the "download" size of the mod, so it makes no real difference on that front either

it does make it harder to package/release the mod when packing everything up in the paks and pkgs. there are other benefits though.

if you find yourself with something you would like to add to the main mod, hit me up, im sure we can. there is a lot of room for improvement

34 levels, many with nary a light/playability/basicPBR pass

(more than 35 counting secret extra levels :P)

we have a (currently private) github repo and development tools set up as well, if that's of interest to you

[tall iron]

maybe i might make a contribution or two once in a while... right now that noisy room in Snow Bridge is like an itch i really want to scratch

[tall iron]

i mean , it would be so cool if we can start a multiplayer game, but its just a hangout in the People Can Fly castle , with all sorts of Remix-specific stuff like adding lights and volumetric effects and stuff

[light palm]

so many itches i want to scrach in so many levels 🙈

[tall iron]

its a lot faster to audit other people's work, than to do the work yourelf... how many contributers are there in this project?

[light palm]

only a few, you have met most of them already 🙂

[tall iron]

im thinking of just playing through the game in 0.171 just to gauge the state of things, then come back at a later stage when enough has changed and im not bored of Painkiller anymore

if i find some particularly gnarly areas which need work i would be happy to help , like going through the pak files and all that

but as of right now, if i try to open a capture in remix, everything is black

[noble beacon]

I've been proposing a Painkiller RTX multiplayer session as well 😄

Something about it is just "hell yeah"

[tall iron]

ideally what i would like to do is play the game -> see something i don't like -> capture -> open remix -> do something about it -> save -> continue playing

[noble beacon]

You can do so

Requires some fuckery

You either ask Binq Adams to upload raw assets Or unpack and sort them yourself

And join Painkiller RTX server to get access to the repo and project file

Once you're running raw assets instead of packaged, you can open the workfile in the toolkit and change anything you want as you play

[vale gust]

NecroVisioN's engine has the "EnableAlwaysVisible" Lua function.

turns on the No Occlusion flag as specified in the documentation

[tall iron]

how do i get the fog back?

hmm, another area with noisy lights

[opaque badge]

try to change clip plane setting in painkiller settings or alt+x → developer menu → global volumetrics → volumetric lighting → check volumetric lighting and then you can change preset what would you like

[tall iron]

this tunnel place in Military Base has really noisy lighting, looks almost like caustics from a swimming pool... do you have any plan on fixing it

[noble beacon]

That's how it looks at Clip Plane 1000

Needs some adjustment

[noble beacon]

Do we have to start on NecroVisioN RTX 😭

Are there any leftovers of fixed function fallback in Necrovision btw?

[light palm]

it was this other thing, #1313627595815911448 message
not culling exactly
i havent fully tested the flag but i have a tkinter tool which toggles all the maya flags, it's absolute garbage, you should try it 🤣

[light palm]

i'm working on it, i have a PR open which allows for full obscuration in the volumetrics, waiting on senior dev eyeballs (was supposed to respond to different message but you get the idea)

[light palm]

i have another pr which fixes this, turns out it was a hardcoded value in remix which was there for portal rtx compat, simply making it configurable (and changing said value) prevents the issue where fog ceases to render when d3d fog fardist <= 67

[light palm]

ie. was more an issue with the farclipdist clipping stuff. tried the flag which always renders stuff behind other geo meant for skies, then the sky dissapeared, then ran out of time and stopped testing

[light palm]

probably due to the lights i had placed either intersecting with the lamps there, or the lights being too dark compared to the emissive surfaces on the lamps

[light palm]

to get more "original game" behaviour, you can use the "distance fog" in alt-x menu
not physically accurate but matches original reasonably well

[opaque badge]

Oh ok, I didn’t know that

[light palm]

you have to have other settings set a certain way for it to actually show up, cant remember what exactly

if it doesnt appear to do anything try turning other volumetrics off

or something - i didnt really ever use distance fog

love this rune slab McGillacutty graced us with

[light palm]

hmm come to think of it, it's probably a very simple bit of logic rendering the original "sky" over other stuff when other stuff is past the farclip dist

including the fake CItem sky

[noble beacon]

Think more often!

2 times a day should do the trick

[light palm]

Being smart is for idiots

😄

[light palm]

ie. this is with the citem sky and the original sky undefined - turns it it wasnt culled, just getting the fog color rendered on top of it after the clip plane distance

now to implement remix api

https://tenor.com/view/crujir-los-nudillos-porky-looney-tunes-listo-empezamos-gif-15154046267487691432

[noble beacon]

that's such a powerful message

right who cares about the uni, remix api needs implementing

https://tenor.com/view/stoic-meme-rammstein-greek-gif-18438500916924158871

[light palm]

who cares about sleep more like it 😄

[noble beacon]

a man just stops caring at some point

conputer games is all that remains

[tall iron]

there are vast swaths of missing terrain visible from this secret area in Military Base... is there something you plan on doing about it? or is this what 'purgatory' is supposed to look like

[light palm]

will get to it eventually, quite far down on the list though

probably an easy fix if you wanted to check it out

[light palm]

Volumetrics fixes before and after

(The painting has a VERY slight amount of emissive, 0.1)

[noble beacon]

That's a fine example right there

[north kiln]

i damn love how the moon made cycle and projected lights and shadow on the map

[tall iron]

are there any new hotfixes ? like for the sky in City On Water

[tall iron]

what level is this?

[light palm]

its city on water but i had placed meshes in there for testing purposes. so basically a test scene.

[light palm]

no hotfixes until next release. too much needs to be changed with the AABB patch

[tall iron]

seeing a glowing painting reminds me of those ultraviolet fluorescent posters and stuff... so much fun could be had with emissive masks

[tall iron]

is there something i can edit on my end to save me from manually tagging the sky in City On Water, everytime i load the map?

[light palm]

you can tag it and then press save on the bottom of the alt x menu

[tall iron]

huh that works on assets as well? not just settings?

[light palm]

and/or copy the hash to the skys hash list in dxvk.conf

yeah it saves them into rtx.conf when u press save there

dxvk.conf contains "defaults" that I have set up. city on water sky is missing from there

[tall iron]

so editing dxvk.conf is the proper way of fixing it

[light palm]

sort of

the proper way of fixing it is to ingest a properly uvmapped sphere with the corred BC6u hdri override in the sky layer

[tall iron]

you mean the sky can look even better than it does right now?

[light palm]

most definitely

[tall iron]

oh cool

[light palm]

looks way better in the upcoming release

[tall iron]

sweet... i wonder if remix supports hdr monitors

[light palm]

not at the moment afaik

[tall iron]

:sad:

[light palm]

perhaps you can use hdr on windows 11 with the nvidia auto hdr thing

i have windows 10 though so i cant test that

[tall iron]

😥

[light palm]

you could try it if you have windows 11

[tall iron]

auto hdr 🤢

[light palm]

just a setting in the nvidia app

its not too bad

try it before knocking it 😛

of course native would be great.

[tall iron]

the other problem is that my monitor supports HDR , but it barely counts

[light palm]

same, fake hdr basically

would love a nice oled

[tall iron]

if they ever invent an OLED which does not burn out, i'll be the first to buy one

[tall iron]

did you do anything about the grassy ground in Asylum? it looks plasticky and polygonal with how it is reflecting the sky light

[light palm]

yeah

[tall iron]

wait, are those bats?

[north kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/seb-jdg-joueur-du-grenier-milk-explode-gif-17514743

[tall iron]

hmm still quite noticable ghosting

[light palm]

the point is to show the lights on the candles

which move and also despawn when the candles extinguish

[tall iron]

maybe on small geometry like this , the amount of ghosting is acceptable

maybe the sampling noise will also make it look like its flickering

[light palm]

ghost particles also fixed, and subtle light added to ghost

list of fixes is pages long

[tall iron]

but when the lights suddenly go out, there is that lingering glow in the fog

[light palm]

froxel cache

[tall iron]

i wonder if there is some hack that forces the cache to be flushed when there is a sudden change in brightness like that

[light palm]

you can reduce the number of accumulation frames in the froxel cache if you want that to be more responsive

or simply remove the volumetric contribution from those lights

[tall iron]

like flushing the cache might introduce some artifacting... but i think in a specific moment like this, the artifacting could be used to dramatic effect

is the froxel cache global? or specific to lights and volumes

[light palm]

global afaik

[tall iron]

is there a way to flush it via in-game events?

[light palm]

via api presumably, that is not implemented yet in Painkiller RTX

[tall iron]

i kind of like the greenish tint in the reflection, it gives it a nice dash of colour

is this a LOD thing?

[noble beacon]

Transparency is glitching sometimes

Same thing can be observed at the base of Orphanage

[tall iron]

this is a chefs kiss moment in raytracing

not sure if this is going to come across on video... but theres this weird shimmering on the water's edge

[tall iron]

i found another glitch

another fun moment with raytracing

its very pleasant to see that there is basically no ghosting here even though the lighting changed so rapidly

[tall iron]

hmm, serious performance issues in Docks when raytracing is enabled... CPU and GPU hardly above 50% utilization

performance is fine without raytracing

[noble beacon]

It stops shimmering when untagged as Water Texture.
The problem is, the foundation of that structure has a narrow water material applied to it. This is bad for Water Texture tag because it can't properly animate normals here

What is needed here is to get rid of that watery layer over the stone

[tall iron]

i wonder why did they do it like that originally... were they hoping to have waves on the water or something

[noble beacon]

It's not really, this level has huge issues with CPU performance with culling disabled. Binq's work on AABB is supposed to fix this issue

[tall iron]

what is aabb

[noble beacon]

Axis-Aligned Bounding Box

DIstance based culling

[tall iron]

interesting

[noble beacon]

Basically a box around you that occludes geometry out of it's boundaries

[noble beacon]

Btw there's Portal occlusion you can toggle using the "O" key. It helps with CPU performance

How it looks depends on how the devs placed portals around the level

[tall iron]

turning on occlusion makes the shadows screen-space dependent

[noble beacon]

Yeah, that's because you're no longer looking at the shadow casting object through the portal

I would not play like that, the real solution is on its' way

[tall iron]

the beginning is the default, occlusion off... then i pressed 'O' and it has a different effect on the shadows, but the frame rate goes up a lot

like the portal occlusion seems to have a more granular effect on the shadows than turning on occlusion from the game menu

[noble beacon]

O key and the option in the game menu toggle the same culling algorithm

the checkbox in the options is just not in sync with the hotkey

[light palm]

try toggling ray reconstruction on and off, and/or try transformer model D

[noble beacon]

nuh uh
#1313627595815911448 message

[tall iron]

i think it will just have to be another intervention in this level, manually finding and changing every instance of those water textures

maybe in the original game , its a trick to simulate the walls being wet at the waterline

[tall iron]

@light palm you say that you are in contact with the original developers ? i wonder if they have any comment about the level designer who placed the secrets in the levels

[noble beacon]

It's called Poland 2003 approach

[tall iron]

interesting artifacting here with the shadows, when culling is turned on

[tall iron]

yeah i enjoy grabbing the secrets like i enjoy bashing my head against the wall

[noble beacon]

[noble beacon]

This method is being phased out anyway so

Occlusion option does nothing in the dev Engine.dll with AABB implemented

[tall iron]

just a question,what is this axis that the bounding box is aligned with? the player orientation?

[noble beacon]

with the world coordinate axes

meaning its' faces are parallel to the x, y, z planes

[tall iron]

white material in Old Monastery

also the previous version had this area all lit up... there are torchlight objects but since 0.171 they have no light source

the glowing enemies in Hell stop emitting light when they are offscreen... come to think of it, does disabling culling prevent enemies from being culled?

[noble beacon]

nono that's where you are supposed to blink, a little blinking break for you, you're welcome

[noble beacon]

Yes that's because culling is enabled here

[tall iron]

it looks like the Hell level is basically missing anything Remix related except for the glowing enemies

the overbright mushroom cloud in 0.16 was a nice touch, if only it wasn't affected by culling

[light palm]

Hell should look better in next release:

(WiP)

Just for fun - trying different methods to get the demon mode to look better:

Some accumulated shots:

[tall iron]

i read that Remix actually does support shaders, just not completely

but anyway... i think even without shaders, its still possible to get close to the original effect using materials

like the enemies have this 'stone'(?) texture on them during Demon Morph ... can this texture be changed for something which resembles the original orangey highlight effect?

i am thinking of a uniform displacement map, to create a 'shell' around the character model ... but this 'shell' has the normals flipped, so its only visible on the 'inside', thus giving a cel-shaded outline effect

and for the monochrome effect... surely there has to be a way to do something so simple as to get the average of the red, green and blue values for each ray/pixel, and set all the colour channels to that value?

[noble beacon]

Perhaps it would be worth it to ask around how to make a custom shader for Remix

Then, create some event upon demon morphing in Lua that would trigger the shader via Remix API

Lots of research here, ngl

[north kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/smash-markiplier-gif-1438034459517818172

[light palm]

Finally got real lights on the flamethrower flames using physics, high air density, inverted gravity and custom scaling process.

[north kiln]

https://youtu.be/45A_9y1ClAQ?si=HcpjFOWWWczDnDH1&t=2

[north kiln]

i'm so LOONYYYYYY

[light palm]

whoa that's some shiny goodness!

[kindred haven]

Are the effects done ingame or with remix’s particle system?

[light palm]

these effects are all from the original game

[kindred haven]

Ah ok

[light palm]

of course they look quite different in remix! i think they look good, but we have not done a full particles pass, which would be awesome

[tall iron]

is this going to be in the next release?

[north kiln]

Its the actual version i have just boost the bloom a bit.

[light palm]

https://tenor.com/view/in-the-face-in-the-face-gif-8195204

the 3rd picture 😄

[north kiln]

he have insult my mom

[light palm]

oof! cruisin' for a bruisin'

[north kiln]

Violence is not a solution it's THE solution

[earnest ember]

Hey guys, I was performing some quick tests and noticed 2 layers in your mod release have broken usda syntax

[noble beacon]

Ah, yeah. If you encounter lack of skylight on City On Water, just go to Categorize Textures and tag that blackness in the sky as a Sky Texture

More comments on this

Thanks for mentioning !

[tall iron]

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/FromPolandWithLove2025 🙁 Painkiller is not on the list

[tall iron]

IMHO the mod in its current state is quite unsatisfactory, some levels in the game seem neglected, I am holding out for their upcoming changes

[noble beacon]

uhm, English is not my native tongue, yet I feel like "neglected" is an unfair choice of words?

https://www.moddb.com/mods/painkiller-rtx-remix/features/pixels-to-stone-rebuilding-painkillers-atrium-in-rtx-remix

Other levels are not neglected, they are yet to be worked on

You have like 2 people working on this

only one most of the time

[tall iron]

i'd love to contribute at some point

[noble beacon]

(there's something funny to see in my bio, just sayin')

[light palm]

Lets gooooooooooo!

[light palm]

My fault, sorry E-Man!
Next version coming Soon™

The change log is obscene

[earnest ember]

Np. Here is a checkup script for you all
Just need to pip install usd-core. It will print the layer hierarchy

from pxr import Sdf
import os

def resolve_sublayer_path(layer, sublayer_path):
    if os.path.isabs(sublayer_path):
        return sublayer_path
    parent_dir = os.path.dirname(layer.realPath)
    resolved = os.path.normpath(os.path.join(parent_dir, sublayer_path))
    return resolved

def print_all_layers(layer_path, visited=None, indent=0):
    if visited is None:
        visited = set()
    if layer_path in visited:
        return
    visited.add(layer_path)
    try:
        layer = Sdf.Layer.FindOrOpen(layer_path)
    except Exception as e:
        print("Error opening: ", layer_path)
        raise e
    if not layer:
        return
    print("    " * indent + layer_path)
    for sub_layer_path in layer.subLayerPaths:
        resolved = resolve_sublayer_path(layer, sub_layer_path)
        print_all_layers(resolved, visited, indent + 1)


root_layer_path = r"D:\Projects\Remix Stuff\PainkillerRTXv0171\Bin\rtx-remix\mods\PKRTX\mod.usda"
print("All layers (recursively):")
print_all_layers(root_layer_path)

[light palm]

oooooooohhhh niiiice

I messed up some layers by trying to automate finding duplicate textures (textures which were duplicated into different folders, but the same texture) and then referenced by different layers. I was trying to consolidate those

and also textures which were referenced, but were overridden in stronger layers - i was trying to remove those

there are many edge cases when doing this kind of string manipulation

this could be very useful, thanks mister!

[earnest ember]

OpenUSD scripting is tricky to learn but could totally help you in these cases

[light palm]

yeah I was thinking that. it would be better to go that route than string manip

had to get it done quick though, so janked it.

They don't call me Dr. Jankenstein for nothing.

[earnest ember]

Hahah 😅

[light palm]

i did somewhat of the openusd stuff with a different tool which went through and bound lights to the closest geometry

[earnest ember]

You can also just prompt an AI like Perplexity and will make most of the work for you

[light palm]

Perplexity i have heard that name, i will look see

ahh cool its free?

nice

is that connor's stuff? or i am confused

[earnest ember]

The toolkit in dev mode (lightspeed.app.trex_dev.bat) also has a script editor under Window > Script Editor which you can use with an open, running project

[earnest ember]

the wat?

[light palm]

nevermind i got confused of the name of these AI company CEO's 😄

[light palm]

oh interesting indeed

this could be a game changer™

why did I not notice this earlier 😄 I had launched in dev mode before, then promptly forgot all about it

hey you wouldn't happen to know if the alpha blending system is all working correctly in toolkit/runtime?
I found the system somewhat opaque (pun intended)

[light palm]

It would be remiss not to mention my esteemed colleague, Madame Jankenstina 🙂

[earnest ember]

Hmm wdym? Something is not working as expected?

[light palm]

The only way i seem to be able to get smooth alpha blending is with alpha emissive. I was doing some testing and it seems that there is some tie-in with stochastic alpha blend and froxel max distance

Some examples:

The froxel thing is probably a red herring, just the volumetrics affecting the alpha particles/entities

seems I didn't take screenshots of my stochastic alpha blend settings testing 🙈

I will eventually get around to doing some structured testing and analysis on it. Probably best to disregard the alpha concerns for now

[earnest ember]

Can't tell my the images what you're trying to blend. If you have decals you'll want to tag them as decal. For terrain try to enable the "terrain a decal" option, and tag your terrain textures with "Opacity Micromap Ignore Texture"

[light palm]

It's just a plane I added via toolkit and put a greyscale gradient alpha channel on for testing - set it as blend enabled and legacy alpha blend off.
probably best to ignore this for now until I can get better info for you!

[north kiln]

QUESTION. what is a froxel?

[light palm]

i always assumed frustum voxel, have not actually checked though!

[pallid saffron]

A pixelated frog 🐸

[north kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/common-rain-frog-frog-in-train-frog-looking-out-train-window-for-len-from-nic-cuz-we-couldnt-find-this-as-a-gif-alrdy-gif-3679557726432238120

[pallid saffron]

That’s what Star Citizen usually say 🙃

[light palm]

Localised volumetric fog achieved

[north kiln]

Whao that's it's great!!!!

i cancel my gameclip of cemetary level and i will remade it when the new update will be here!

"Why do you love Painkiller so much?"
One of the reason

[light palm]

lmao good combo!

[north kiln]

That's why for me ragdolls are indispensable for action games and not acceptable to not have them in actual production. except for some like Clair Obscure expedition 33 or 2D games

[light palm]

Painkiller RTX 0.2.0 Live!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wGwU7SsG5Htym4kD5PAUI3vPcd_Qb8zb/view?usp=drive_link

[vale gust]

0.1.8, 0.1.9 where

did they become lost media

I know 0.1.9 had the motorcycle

[noble beacon]

those were the haunted ones

they made the player suffer an uncontrollable desire to buy orange british shorthaired cats

in large quantities

there was also a motorcycle

[pallid saffron]

Is it with the big performance improvement?

[noble beacon]

That's the one!

Just don't expect any substantial change when you are being GPU limited

It's an original game engine optimization that is supposed to largely eliminate CPU bottlenecks

[pallid saffron]

i have 5090 ... 😛

was doing like 30FPS > 60 with framegen lol

[noble beacon]

That's absolutely great

[pallid saffron]

nice, looking forward to check after work

my cpu is an AMD Athlon 500mhz

with framegen x100 its ok

[noble beacon]

That should do

I think there should also be a ModDB v0.2.0 post, but it's not there yet
It is there now

[noble beacon]

What kind of net do we need to buy to catch a break

[light palm]

huh... is that on my end or yours

i'll start uploading in parts directly to moddb just in case

[noble beacon]

Looks like I can't download any of the files from your drive

@vale gust can you download any file from this link?
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1gx_UOPxoLFYPrOIOOLmFNZNaF1dfzQHB

a screenshot, anything

[noble beacon]

@light palm I congratulate you my friend

The unavoidable has happened

You hit the google drive download quota

[light palm]

dang nammit

ugh.. didn't know that was a thing

i shall upload in pieces to ModDB. It will take a good 12 hours 🙁

[noble beacon]

120 hours*

[light palm]

12 hours if we are lucky!

[noble beacon]

You're feeling lucky today?

[vale gust]

did the motorcycle get scrapped in 0.2.0?

[light palm]

motorcycle is awaiting implementation by PseudoPolish

[noble beacon]

I removed the Motorcycle in retaliation for this

[light palm]

hmm maybe this will work
"You just have to add a shortcut to the file in a folder within your Google Drive library. And then right-click and choose Download from the menu. That’s it."

https://www.smartprix.com/bytes/how-to-solve-google-drive-exceeded-quota-issue/

[noble beacon]

That's how I download all the large files from GDrive, because that way it's not getting split into 35 archives

[noble beacon]

Actually it will still split I think, it's not getting split when copying that shortcut to your physical drive using GDrive desktop

[light palm]

I think that is only for a folder share

~~maybe this

"you can solve the Google Drive quota exceeded error through the following steps:

Right-click the file you would like to download and choose “Make a copy”. Please ensure that your google drive has enough storage space.
Go to the “My Drive” tab, right-click the copied file and click “Download”. Then, click “Download Anyway”. Now, you can start downloading the copied file."

https://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmanager/download-quota-exceeded-for-this-file.html~~

[light palm]

maybe @north kiln can get the file to you somehow?

[north kiln]

i have not enough space on my drive cloud with all my unity and blender project on it

[noble beacon]

I tried copying the 7z file to my drive, but it just throws a copy error

I'll try something else

[light palm]

dang, i dont know
The folder it is in is also shared, maybe that gives more options?
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1gx_UOPxoLFYPrOIOOLmFNZNaF1dfzQHB?usp=drive_link

i made a copy of the file, maybe you can download that one?

[noble beacon]

Looks like any file you upload gets flagged or something

Can't do anything with it

[light palm]

🙁

Google simply doesn't have enough resources to host Painkiller RTX v0.2.0

[noble beacon]

You could upload it to my drive, I have 2TB plan

[light palm]

might as well just keep uploading it to ModDB

[pallid saffron]

oh so it contains assets also? how does one install on top of existing? or its better I wipe my painkiller folder?

(well, once the link works of course)

ModDb lets you upload a 55 GB file?

[noble beacon]

Sort of

It just fails quite often

[noble beacon]

A good practice is to keep a COPY ONLY vanilla folder of the game to reproduce it each time a new mod version comes out

It's like 3gb

[pallid saffron]

i guess I can delete the bin and data folder and verify with steam

[noble beacon]

Just make sure it won't redownload remix files in those folders somehow

Like there should be no .trex and rtx-remix folders in Bin

[noble beacon]

I am to this day not sure whether I was going crazy, but I think at some point Steam was backing up modded files

[pallid saffron]

that would be weird

im trying this method to download https://www.reddit.com/r/google/comments/nfsgal/google_drive_download_quota_limit_exceeded_bypass/?sort=new

lets see how long it take to zip it

[noble beacon]

Have been using GOG ever since as it just allows you to copy the game files

[pallid saffron]

i think zipping 55gb on the drive will actually take days

[pallid saffron]

is this file the same to hide the Work in progress?

[pallid saffron]

hmmm the camera is "juddery" when I enable framegen

well even without framegen

not sure how much you ll notice with a mouse, if you have a controller to turn camera around, wonder if its just on my install

[pallid saffron]

Uh

Is this normal xD?

a giant sphere turning around, and no fog on the ground

[pallid saffron]

I overwrite the config file and is back to normal

But one issue for sure: FG x3 on 120hz, so 40 fps internal is very stuttery camera, like the game is only smooth if it’s a multiple of 30 fps

[light palm]

try turning on smooth mouse in control options

[pallid saffron]

Yes I tried but no luck with that particular FG setup, it’s like the camera doesn’t update at proper intervals

If I do FG x2 from 30 to 60 or 60 to 120 it’s ok (but not easy to maintain 60 to 120)

[light palm]

something to do with vsync maybe

try going to Painkiller/Bin/dxvk.conf

and changing

rtx.allowFSE = True

to

# rtx.allowFSE = True

check Painkiller/Bin/config.ini for
Cfg.CameraInterpolation = true

[light palm]

did you have to use some mod or software to get controller working in painkiller?

[light palm]

if the clipplane is set much higher than 100 the fog gets thinned out

generally a good idea to just download a clean copy of painkiller and install into that

[pallid saffron]

just steam input

[light palm]

maybe its this bug #github-updates message

[pallid saffron]

so what I noticed with allowFSE disabled:

if I use normal Vsync FG x3 at 120hz > I get regular camera stutter / judder, even though framerate shows stable 120
if I use GSync FG x3 at 120hz > its not doing it, but the image is breaking more due to FG than it should (at least more than in any other classic non Remix games I played)

other data I can give:

• FG x2 from 30 to 60 > its smooth (well input lag is not great, but smooth)
• FG x4 from 30 to 120 > image is very ... "juddery", like its smooth but you can see as if frames are duplicates / repeating themselves, even though we go from exact same framerate as 30 > 60

i somehow suppose its not related to PK and more Remix in general

[light palm]

Hmm i suppose would have to compare to another remix title
If you want to test settings you can delete config.ini, rtx.conf and everything from dxvk.conf except for the texture hashes/tags
Probably a good idea to back them up first though!

might need to keep the rtxio setting, not sure

in dxvk.conf

[pallid saffron]

from general remix discussion, seems a global issue with remix and FG x3 / x4

[pallid saffron]

What are the next major goals for future updates now if I may ask?

[north kiln]

https://youtu.be/wPReZqmHKxA?si=18OlnxMWeLjWw5xu

[noble beacon]

Implementing Remix API is the ultimate major goal I would say, some levels just don't work with static rtx.conf/dxvk.conf values. To change those values dynamically as we play the game we need API
For example the Underworld is just too high in the world for the currently configured volumetrics to work properly. We need those values to change upon Underworld load

Not to mention that Remix API generally gives a lot of control over the modding process and combined with Painkiller's simple LUA scripting it would mean the absolutely ideal game for Remixing

[kindred haven]

@noble beacon what benefits could remix api give?

[noble beacon]

^

Change all those settings you see in the Alt+X menu automatically as we play the game and more

[kindred haven]

Yo that’s amazing what

[noble beacon]

Also directly send Remix lights without needing to use LUA to spawn anchor meshes and stuff

much more advanced modding capabilities generally speaking,
See Remix API as a way to introduce dynamic changes. Many Remix mods suffer from not being able to configure settings for different levels/locations, because all the configured values are static and applied to the whole game

Thankfully, in Painkiller you can configure the original D3D9 Fog values in CLevel for every single level and use those legacy values via Legacy Fog Remapping feature, so we've been quite lucky

still it's not enough for some specific cases like the Underworld

[kindred haven]

So basically the main benefit is higher light controls and live runtime setting changes?

[noble beacon]

yeah basically

[kindred haven]

What other features do u wish remix api had?

[noble beacon]

I'm certainly the wrong person to ask this, I've never even used it lol

[kindred haven]

@kindred scaffold any insight?

[earnest ember]

Personally I have 2:

• Loading textures from the game memory (currently only support paths to DDS files) -> Would allow porting games to remix using only the API, no bridge and d3d9 hacks.
• GPU instancing via GeomPointInstancer in the API + HdRemix. Remix already supports it but the API don't -> Would allow us to add the paint scatter brush in the toolkit

[kindred scaffold]

https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks/rtx-remix/issues/574

[pallid saffron]

I never played Forest as a kid, are witches supposed to go ultra fast? Had to use pkhaste to finish the level

[noble beacon]

Yes they are more aggressive in Forest

[noble beacon]

more in the thread under that post

[pallid saffron]

Damn Dock is relentless is term of difficulty also, clearly I played game in easy when I was young and had those levels locked haha

[light palm]

😬

oops

i have fixed, might push a hotfix patcheroo

seems to help with crashing on atrium as well

i had tied lights to geometry which I had then "deleted", which might have been causing the crashes

[tall iron]

oh sweet, 0.2.0 is out... i was busy doing other things the last few days so i didnt notice

[tall iron]

its crashing in Atrium Complex?

glad to see that the glowing gemstones on the goblet !

[noble beacon]

And the entirely new material overall

[tall iron]

that last picture is interesting, the vertical patterns are high resolution but the texture under it is low resolution

[tall iron]

a huge upgrade over what was before... but i thought the goblet had a more intricate design than this

like the new design you have looks almost completely smooth but the original design was more ornamental

[tall iron]

im about to launch the game... is it crashing in Atrium Complex?

[light palm]

yes

i think it is because some lights are tied to a mesh which is deleted

you can try this

back up the old atrium usda and put this one in instead

if it crashes for you, please send the logs from the logs folder, and if there is a dump file in the .trex folder that would be useful!

[tall iron]

where do i put it? the zip files contain no *.usda files

[noble beacon]

Bin/rtx-remix/mods/PKRTX

[noble beacon]

Looks like there's a virus in our mod

Sorry

[tall iron]

🙁

[noble beacon]

false positive from a new Runtime release

[tall iron]

how do you set the fov again?

i just finished eating dinner not so long ago and i dont want to get motion sickness with the default fov

[noble beacon]

Bin/config.ini

[tall iron]

the console fov command doesn't work?

[noble beacon]

Yes it is horrible by default

[tall iron]

the most recent file in my .trex folder is d3d9.dll from 2nd August ... guess thats not going to be useful for you

the game crashes while fighting the first group of enemies in the level

[light palm]

try delete bridge.conf from .trex

and delete d3d9.maxFrameLatency = 1 from dxvk.conf

[noble beacon]

I feel like there's always some random initial crashes happening every time you create a new Remix installation

Something to do with dxvk cache perhaps, idk

So it's best not to touch anything until you're sure the repro is more or less consistent

[tall iron]

ok i managed to basically clear Atrium Complex

but i am seeing very low frame rates, worse than i remember last time

and its messing with my input lag

so i tried to disable frame generation... and it crashed

[noble beacon]

Go to the menu before toggling framegen

Safer that way

[tall iron]

heres the logs just in case

[light palm]

did it stop crashing after you made some changes, and if so which ones

[pallid saffron]

I also always had a first crash in Asylum

I completed the base game and had maybe 5-6 crashes in total

[tall iron]

after doing what you said

[tall iron]

this

[tall iron]

interesting accumulation artifact on this texture here

also... theres low GPU usage throughout the level, almost like the fps is cpu limited or something

[light palm]

what is your cpu and gpu

[tall iron]

rtx4080 , i7 13700k

also the game crashed when i pressed escape to open the menu

just had a crash

[tall iron]

my computer is definitely stable, im playing a different raytracing game which draws 310 watts constantly on my gpu and there are no problems... but Painkiller RTX is around 250 watts average and its crashing

[light palm]

thanks for the infos carmatic!

[noble beacon]

Did you try fixing your performance overlay as I mentioned earlier? Calling wattage values every 0,000001ms is not the way for any CPU out there

[noble beacon]

Actually yeah CPU bottleneck in Atrium is real

Checking other levels

[noble beacon]

Okay so I checked all other levels, and besides Atrium there are CPU bottlenecks throughout:

Military Base, Docks, Colosseum (really tough this one)

Also these are especially GPU heavy:

Enclave, Asylum, Swamp, Forest, Loony Park, Stone Pit, Shadowlands

I suggest that we lock Forest for all difficulties for now, this level is an absolute bollocks

[pallid saffron]

do you ever get UE5 shader compilation crashes when starting new UE5 games?

i have a 13700K and had issues with crashes in the extreme cases for a long time, until the intel fiasco and the bioses got finally updated to respect power limits

still, in very extreme cases I've seen same CPU crash happen, but only once in Cyberpunk PT in the DLC. It could very well happen in RTX Remix games I suppose as its very CPU expensive

not saying that's the case here, but to consider if you really seem to get too many crashes

[tall iron]

thats whats concerning to me, the spurious and unpredictable nature of the crashes really remind me of when i was overclocking my old computers too much.... except these crashes only happen in Painkiller, both vanilla and RTX

[pallid saffron]

if it happens with Vanilla might not be the too CPU intensive part 😄

[noble beacon]

It is, in fact, CPU intensive

Painkiller destroys 2 threads when not FPS locked

[pallid saffron]

hmmm

then @tall iron I can only advise you to ensure your motherboard bios is up-to-date and respect intel power limits

you could also do what I was doing before: lowering CPU cores by -100 to 200mhz, when I wanted to play Cyberpunk or go through UE5 shader compilation (now with BIOS its ok)

[tall iron]

basically one of 3 things happen when you touch a physics object in painkiller, running at over 100fps... it either works normally which is luckily most of the time, it kills you instantly which is sometimes, or it crashes the game

[noble beacon]

Pretty realistic if you ask me

I have had similar experience with various objects IRL

[tall iron]

the question is why does Forest run so slow in vanilla Painkiller.... and can anything be done to fix it

[noble beacon]

@vale gust Educate us good master on the matter of what was their problem with Forest and why this level is such an ass

[vale gust]

I haven't noticed that the Forest level is slow

especially considering it is the smallest map

[noble beacon]

Not sure about vanilla, but in Remix it is slow probably because of all the alpha foliage

transparency is hard and requires some awareness of what you are actually doing

binq pls fix

[light palm]

a good deal of testing seems to show that the alpha/particles is what is causing overhead for remix resulting in low fps and gpu utilisation in some places, particularly atrium and the other levels you mentioned @noble beacon

there are an obscene amount of flame particles in a small area on atrium

optimally i could replace them with flipboards or something else

[noble beacon]

You tagged something else as Particle Emitter besides that statue in the final chamber?

[light palm]

nah the remix particles themselves are great

its the original game particles

that is a good point though

may be able to replace them with remix particles perhaps

[noble beacon]

I think they get progressively more demanding depending on how much of screen space they take

gotta be careful

[light palm]

akshually

[noble beacon]

[light palm]

it doesn't seem to matter if they are on screen or not

just whether they exist in the scene

for this issue at least

the screenspace thing is definitely a thing as well of course you are right there

[noble beacon]

I'm pretty sure if you noclip your face against that particle emitter in Atrium it will drop some frames

That was the case in the previous version at least

[vale gust]

I might have an idea as to why it lags in Remix

[light palm]

this one with the low gpu usage occurs when there are many alpha particles in the scene

[vale gust]

but I am too lazy now to do anything

[light palm]

it occurs even with unmodded painkiller with unmodded remix

for example, standing at the start area of atrium looking at the wall away from the rest of the scene is 40 percent gpu usage

deleting all of the particle emitters and doing the same thing results in 99 percent gpu usage

[vale gust]

remove those giant wooden beams at the end of Forest and tell me if it runs better

[light palm]

some bottleneck to do with remix itself and unreasonable amounts of alpha billboards/particles

[noble beacon]

Is there a way to improve transparency performance
Like the Swamp boss and those ice things in Hell really cost a lot

[light palm]

iirc one of the engineers commented on this months and months ago

that there were some crazy number of particles in our scene

seems they were onto something important

[noble beacon]

I think it was about decals? They also said that it doesn't really matter for things like bullet holes

[light palm]

possible i have not remembered correctly!

might have even been last year

[noble beacon]

#1313627595815911448 message

It just reminded me of this, not saying it must be it

[vale gust]

you know, the frames drops in Forest come from the enemies

[noble beacon]

[light palm]

@tall iron
Give this a try, should slightly improve performance on Atrium 🙂
https://www.moddb.com/mods/painkiller-rtx-remix/downloads/painkiller-rtx-v020-to-v021-patch

[north kiln]

Painkiller RTX remixed is good for your heal it's proove by science

[noble beacon]

Damn launcher explosions really do the trick

looks right now

[north kiln]

keep them like that

[noble beacon]

@vale gust
https://youtu.be/fuJFzmVmm-c

It is happening in 30 minutes

I'm switching to AMD if we lose

no

[vale gust]

I can't be disappointed if I have no hope, so

[vale gust]

I think reality is a simulation and doesn't exist

[versed plover]

[noble beacon]

@Binq Adams Are you fucking dead or what you won 3 accolades here

@light palm

UIADOIASDIASIOD

\skl;dfkld;fkdslk;f

[kindred haven]

@noble beacon CONGRATS

@light palm CONGRATS X2

[vale gust]

what about me

[noble beacon]

Jeez

[light palm]

Good work everyone!

[dull stratus]

Congratulations, guys

[noble beacon]

i'm done

🕯️

[north kiln]

**Rivers of madness,
Are flowing through my veins.
Ain't no forgiveness,
And all I got is pain!
Never surrender,
Never give in.
I'm the defender,
And I'm gonna kill to win!

Looking for shelter,
I've no place to hide.
Evil helter skelter,
You're in for a ride!
Hear the thunder,
Terrorizing zeal.
I am the hunter,
I'm the law of steel!

Kill the pain!
Death will reign!
Love for hate!
So let the games begin! **

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gif-21785724

[mossy plume]

good stuff folks congrats!

5090 comes in tommorow then i can play it in all its glory!

[pallid saffron]

Damn well done!

[robust hollow]

[noble beacon]

Mr. Binq is officially asleep

[noble beacon]

Ah normal tuesday

literally

[lusty sable]

Holy fuck guys you must be ecstatic congratulations!!!!

Well deserved

[pallid saffron]

he already took the money and is on a beach somewhere

[light palm]

Should definitely help to spur continued development towards Painkiller RTX!

[tall iron]

I just cleared Atrium Complex without crashing, and also unlocking the card by destroying every object... its definitely stable now

but every room except the final room has low GPU usage and considerable mouselag

[tall iron]

but the plus sides are that the noise on the shadow in the second to last room is gone, and also the smoke from the devil monks dont flicker anymore

or at least, i dont notice them flickering when the fps is so low

[light palm]

I'm looking into a few possible solutions
One might be to reenable portal based culling alongside AABB culling, however would need considerable testing and basegame modding/configuration as well as RE
another might be merging meshes - seems painkiller splits things into many smaller meshes, which may be causing excessive drawcalls.
This would mess up a lot of our replacement bindings, materials and mesh hashes however, so would also require massive work

[tall iron]

shame that there seems to be so much fundamental unanswered questions , which undermine the work you've already put into it so far

[light palm]

nature of the beast

constantly learning

[tall iron]

i mean i dont mind helping with placing lights etc if that can speed things along

[light palm]

lighting is fun, i love it

way easier now too, now that Pete has made the toolkit super much faster

[noble beacon]

Btw there's been another patch 6 hours ago

In case you missed

[light palm]

yep i just put some of the original particles back

because the candleflame in the hanging torches looked rather lame

the candleflame i made with standard PK modding. much more lightweight, only a few billboards at any one time, instead of 10's of them
their sizes positions on some of the candles needs some finetuning

kind of tricky when the flames are only visible in the paineditor and the candles and lights are only visible in the toolkit

figured out that you can use literally the same position values of the lights from the toolkit though

[noble beacon]

It makes sense

it's the same world

around the world around the

Check DMs, pretty please

[tall iron]

huh, 0.22 now

lets see

okay umm is it normal to just pick up the Stake Gun through the wall from the first secret of Atrium Complex?

[vale gust]

it is

[tall iron]

oh cool... learn something new everyday

[vale gust]

https://youtu.be/cvYeWd8Fecg?t=6

[tall iron]

just tried to turn off frame generation, by first going into the game menu before opening the alt x menu ... resumed the game, its running at around 60fps , then crashed after a few seconds

[noble beacon]

Toggling framegen is not safe

[tall iron]

so it seems, ever since 0.20

[tall iron]

im just wondering, is there some kind of profiler to help find and identify bottlenecks in the rendering process?

[noble beacon]

Yeah there is

In the editor

[light palm]

paineditor you mean? or toolkit
there are some things in the runtime as well, latency, memory tracking thing etc

[noble beacon]

There is some additional functionality in the PainEditor's Engine.dll that enables debug info

[light palm]

looks like Mark has made some very interesting changes to dxvk-remix, i am going to test stability

these newer builds may also have fixed some things with framegen? not totally sure, but have a feeling

[vale gust]

pressing H 2 times or 3

[light palm]

this is going to look siiiiiick

[noble beacon]

Huj & Dupa style!

[light palm]

hehe im not sure what that means

[vale gust]

I don't understand how these things are indefinitely frozen

[noble beacon]

Hell & Damnation

[vale gust]

maybe put a pool of water under as well

[light palm]

actually not a bad idea

that would look cool

i should put some ice on the tubes as well

the plan is to use RTX particles to have bubbles going up, inside the tubes

with like luminescent translucent blue fluid in there

[noble beacon]

That would be peak

Wtf

Looks like we're gathering all the latest RTX features in the mod

RTX Skin/Volumetrics, this now

[vale gust]

nah, keep them for te next transformative contest

[noble beacon]

[light palm]

and im not a huge fan of the tubes just intersecting the holder, I want some kind of actual holding parts

[tall iron]

i dunno but stopping to admire the ammo pickups kind of interrupts the flow of gameplay

[noble beacon]

Lol

[tall iron]

i mean if they add to the aesthetic from any distance, i'd say go for it

like if they glow or something

[tall iron]

wouldnt it be better to use RTX particles to simulate the air condensing around it?

[light palm]

like water droplets?

the new dxvk build with Marks fixes seems stable as a rock so far

[noble beacon]

unbelievable

things start to look sus

[light palm]

i was doing some silly things in the usdas with tying lights to deleted geometry

it cant have hurt to stop doing that

but it was still crashing now and then

[tall iron]

no i mean like when you see liquid nitrogen or dry ice

and now that RTX remix is adding programmability to the materials, like with animations and stuff... maybe it can even simulate this cold air phenomenon more realistically, like the cold mist being blown by the wind or causing the surrounding level geometry to get wet

[light palm]

good idea, that would be cool

pun intended 😛