how do you get 2.08e5?
#Unstable Transit
woeful zephyr
languid cedar
The stars aligned and my heavy cruiser became a sniper
rancid turtle
oh, only now noticed OD in UT
interesting
bitter umbra
ye
nova light
slam clicked that upgrade hehe
wild timber
this is the real compensation for the catchup nerf
(for us)
(pulling the ladder up)
bitter umbra
yeah
bitter umbra
purpl
empty cargo
can something have hull and another damage mult
shell jasper
not right now
if that happens prolly just need to change setup and show multiple instead
bitter umbra
Yeah
would be interesting to have Damage special upgrades
x1.5 more damage to priority damage type
woeful zephyr
I think Sylv is trolling us with the glass cannon
nova light
damage enhancer
woeful zephyr
🤔
fervent turret
I'm still in limbo working on g8, semi-hoarding UT points til then
alpine hemlock
glass cannon singlehandedly adds quite a lot of depth
you can make really different ships
that you want different mods on
"glass cannon ships you want to hide in the back" vs not that
but it's a start
shell jasper
I kinda fear glass cannon ends up almost just a no downside choice past like... 15 levels maybe?
errr 15 battles rather
alpine hemlock
the numbers may need tweaking but the idea is good
if all damage no defense is optimal, push the envelope even more
the opposite concept is also good. the rare health mod on your "tank" ships
you could help that out with a "taunt" effect. maybe something that changes the small/medium target preference? it's a bit of an issue that you cant tank for smalls with mediums or vice versa
nova light
I kinda fear glass cannon ends up almost just a no downside choice past like... ...
well, it becomes a downside once missiles can one-shot you through barriers
and you kind of lose instantly at that point so it doesn't matter anymore lol
alpine hemlock
a missile defense mod option would also be nice
maybe "all missiles attack this ship" type deal
alpine hemlock
or just any ship that has hull and isnt your good damage
nova light
super armor tank mod that completely kills your dps but gives you 10x hull
alpine hemlock
defensive builds are tricky in a game where super tanky means dies in 2 sec instead of instantly like normal
not that i want UT to be slower paced
jade bough
wait did this get multiplied again?
empty cargo
g7 final battle
jade bough
was there a patch that changed it? I was getting 2e5 yesterday
cloud hatch
yeah if you switch between standard/sim, or change galaxies, or select a different upgrade that'll probably get the display to update
you might actually need an instability though
vital oar
just finished g8 to this Duo more mods ♥
bitter umbra
a missile defense mod option would also be nice
"Dummy Target"
This type ship always gets first priority for every enemy.
dire bison
Third option for our weapon? ML Barrage, ML Close, ML Countermeasures. New one would be reduced offensive ability but would intercept enemy missiles, or a portion of them, or weaken their damage, etc.
woeful zephyr
😮
🤯
is it possible to get a better roll than this?
oh I guess it could have more mods
but it's only 1 step away from the best roll
azure fulcrum
ship improvement for fighter followed by barrier for fighter, truly one of the best rolls for the first set of upgrades
what weapons do i want for this run even...
woeful zephyr
eh, did better yesterday somehow
obsidian glade
eh, did better yesterday somehow
git gud
obsidian glade
Worked pretty great I think, they still got outscaled eventually but teleporting tank fighters and then quick charge lasers with all the range buffs I could find on the heavys was a killer combo
the fighters bought so much time for the snipers
velvet tide
Was just typing that I've only ever done defensive fighters when I had the teleport. Great minds clearly
obsidian glade
heh
I love my teleporting fighters
and hull amplifier makes them so much more viable
empty cargo
dire bison
telequick was great last UT. I just unlocked this UT so still feeling things out. Are the boosts a 1 time boost or can we get multiple? I don't think I saw repeats in my run
obsidian glade
which boosts?
dire bison
the amplifiers hull, damage... um... was there range and attack speed?
empty cargo
that ship might have a few too many mods
dire bison
noticed my fighters got a LOT more chances to take glass cannon than the HC did. Luck or weighted rolls?
obsidian glade
luck most likely
velvet tide
Oh assume luck? It seemed about equal for me although I've only done one run of this UT galaxy so sample size is tiny
obsidian glade
I got most of them offered for fighters too I think
dire bison
No, it feels risky. But I've only had one run so far
But I actively chose damage or attack speed instead of GC many times as the enemies got tougher
obsidian glade
I havent tried it yet
velvet tide
I was too scared to take it and just stuck with my old strats. I did OK but definitely feel I could have pushed a lot further with it based on comments in here
obsidian glade
I went all in on tanky fighters for this
obsidian glade
I was too scared to take it and just stuck with my old strats. I did OK but defi...
exactly this lol
dire bison
I felt more confident taking it on the HC, but it was offered a lot less
tired blaze
glass cannon is def free for corvettes and fighters imo.
storm bay
tried a hull bomb build. looked good for a while but got out paced
velvet tide
Oh nice, I had some fun a while back with a teleporting hull bomb setup. Wasn't the best but did make me laugh when it worked
woeful zephyr
Never thought to try defensive fighters - how'd you like it?
what setup did you use?
raven seal
I got a 28 run with it. But it had some bugs with targeting. If a ship was ahead of others, every single one would target the same ship.
But if you got the upgrade that made it target multiple ships it became overpowered. Especially on fighters. If it weren't for the targeting bug it would have been crazier I think
obsidian glade
tried a hull bomb build. looked good for a while but got out paced
what the fuck
storm bay
problem is the bulwarks have like 40k hp or some shit
dire bison
That's really good, nice to see hullbomb viable strat now. Curious vs dispersion field
storm bay
it was funny watching a squad of swarmers get deleted
which kinda works for cruisers since they never target the smalls first
dire bison
used snipe, tried to keep GC low-ish. Had my usual poor luck on base/spawn buffs of course
yeah, I think that's the rationale on it
Now we need to train our ships to use them on incoming missiles
wild timber
hull amplifier and damage amplifier being exponential means you can stay on "win more" runs for significantly longer
ceiling probably went up by like 5 stages
also we totally should've gotten new wacky ut mods
shell jasper
like wut tho
shell jasper
wait mods or modifiers
tired blaze
top of my list for UT / Fleet additions would be crowd control.
lusty umbra
Not sure if there are people that skip UT and just take 7 every day
Some eocer might
empty cargo
me
vital oar
jeez i wish i had a charge!!!!!!!!!!!!
thats the best combo
WHY can't we spend our accumulated AI on UT charges?????
vital oar
Not sure if there are people that skip UT and just take 7 every day
ive been doing that for a very long time - ive got no time and willing to do fights
vital oar
top of my list for UT / Fleet additions would be crowd control.
do u understand that enemies will c.control our ships?
be careful with wishes:)
fervent turret
did HC or split beam move speed get nerfed?
I did split beam glass cannon HC thinking it could actually target shit
4 range upgrades and it still can't deal with snipers
missiles hitting me in spawn at stage 8 also just does not feel good
hull amplifier feels pretty useless?
dire bison
Haven't had the chance to test, been doing OT at work. I know that heavy split beam slowed the ship a lot last UT, without teleport you were dead if they had sniper or missile. I can look when I get home, but I believe it took about 25 ranks of range boost to hit sniper at range.
Hull amped hull bomb fleet looks like it's in a decent place reading what dargonite posted last night. I haven't played it yet
fervent turret
that's about where it was before the patch
river flax
2 very rares, nice
I rarely take CL, I’ll have to start that
I like missiles
What happens if you get burst fire with missiles?
dire bison
Victory, usually 😁
autumn fossil
single-digit fps
alpine hemlock
duo more choices no extra, start with fighters, first rewards are barrier and ship improvement for fighters
might be the all time best start
stage 10
wild timber
steady growth
nova light
people finishing up g8 and getting to do UT
wild timber
something something image for ants
river flax
I cleared it on no internet, do I just not get a rank?
nova light
yep
fervent turret
in my defence there's so many missiles here I didn't actually register in my brain that there were so many in the menu
rain kindle
Maybe this is just me, but I just beat the z52 for the first time now. Got myself a whopping 1.97e5 artifacts (i still need the last bonus from achievement). And then, saw the UT screen get a new option - overdrive charge.
Anyways. I was comparing the numbers to try and figure out which one to power up next, and noticed that some of the fields had a different total entirely than what I had prior to the run. Most were the same, but synth was more (by 2.42e4), research (by 9.57e4) and fighter damage was lower (by 7.32e3).
Not a lot of difference in grand scheme of things, but interesting to spot - and curious why/how/what could account for it.
tired blaze
Sounds odd. Mine didn't change.
fervent turret
did something change with the rate of fuel gain for z52 or something?
it's been like 2 days after I finished g8 and I haven't been able to afford buying an instability
river flax
Are you sure you didn’t get one naturally?
fervent turret
river flax
Resetting the fuel cost
fervent turret
natural ones have been coming
woeful zephyr
Fuel efficiency should have gone up ever so slightly
river flax
When you get one naturally, the fuel cost resets to 3d/4d or whatever
fervent turret
I woulda sworn the cost didn't shift things so much from the free ones though
woeful zephyr
Probably not enough to notice though
fervent turret
I think fighter teleport would be a lot better if it canceled the targeting for missiles shot at them before they teleport - instead of now, where the missles just do a u-turn and hit them anyway
nova light
It's funny because other shots fired also teleport to them
shell jasper
I suppose a "shots in the air dont hit me" added to teleport would be uh... logical
im like 90% that would make it waaaaaaaay good though
tp fighters front line just nearly entirely negates opening enemy volley
fervent turret
yeah, and then get wiped with the second
it's just a detrimental mod as-is
and having a potential soft-counter to missilers sounds fun to me
I should've just said teleport too, I forgot about it being a slot buff
not just fighters
could also make an interesting tactical tool for future galaxy shenanigans~
nova light
I like the idea because it makes teleport more tactically interesting and less generally bad
nova light
tp fighters front line just nearly entirely negates opening enemy volley
And then there's barriers which does the same thing but better
tired blaze
Tp is fine as it is.
tired blaze
didn't feel like a great run, but I'll take it.
wild timber
spook
woeful zephyr
🤔
rain kindle
I am a bit confused by how the artifacts total is calculated for UT.
Two days ago, I had: 4.97e5 synth, 1.10e5 fighter damage, 1.07e5 AF research.
Now, I have: 5.10e5 synth, 1.03e5 fighter damage and 2.03e5 AF research.
Between then, the only changes has been the completion of galaxy nodes, thereby giving me a multiplier for artifacts (via achievements).
I have NOT spent any instability at all.
nova light
retroactive artifact bonus 🤔
fervent turret
that'd explain why I was seeing strange numbers too
was genuinely like "uhh I'm pretty sure this wasn't quite here before"
shell jasper
wut, like they went up without runs?
uh
dats a bug then and I dunno how it could even happen 
rain kindle
yeah. i saw them go up/down without actually doing any runs.. just changing of the multiplier somehow affected it.
they went up AND down. so, totally unsure how/what.
echo spear
guys u playing the new ut?
nova light
also mini you gotta update the pin for the new ut upgrades
buh idk what they are
well I know, just not the exact stats
bitter umbra
ah
wild timber
damage amp is x1.2 exponential and hull amp is x1.3 iirc
digital bobcat
What's worth spending UT on? I was at eoc before and only Fighters and Capital were worth going over 4e5 i believe
Now I earn 2e5 per UT
fervent turret
I'm going for a bit of everything, then when it's more diminishing-return-sy... I dunno if I'll lean synth heavy again or build up cap/fighter stats like everyone else
fervent turret
unexpected W?
just kind of spammed glass cannon CL and had only 2 HC somehow, one parked with beam on the 5x 2x 0.25x slot thing
had like 3 & 4 of all the small ships
never found any barriers
starting to suspect the 'burst fire' pickups aren't particularly good to grab without ML
like just a normal rate of fire upgrade might be better on CL
tired blaze
Doesn't it give you like 60% dps increase, no way it isn't mandatory.
fervent turret
yeah, that's if the game is being honest about the real DPS increase though
e.g. what happens to that DPS increase on a frigate that has fleetwide bonus active?
or that has a sufficient amount of fire rate increases built up?
and it's not like it helps against multiple targets
wild timber
e.g. what happens to that DPS increase on a frigate that has fleetwide bonus act...
multiplied
wild timber
or that has a sufficient amount of fire rate increases built up?
also multiplied
dreamy sentinel
Wasn't there a guide with UT tips? What upgrades to prioritize etc?
obsidian glade
i remember some post like that
nova light
they had fun
shell jasper
oh 1801 is that a new record?
wild timber
i think so
obsidian glade
Dang that's a lot
ashen nebula
Duo+More mods is among the best mods that could happen
Is that possible to also have more choices at the same time?
autumn fossil
yes
wild timber
and no extra ships
obsidian glade
But that makes it harder lol
wild timber
huh? no extra ships is like more mods but better
they both give you an extra stats upgrade every 3rd wave, and no extra ships also means you can do more positioning memes like in regular fleet since you don't have to fill the grid with 15 different ships
obsidian glade
Idk I just always have the feeling I get outscaled way too fast with no extra ships, but I also rarely do runs with that mod
wild timber
spam more charge laser snipes next time you run into that mod
obsidian glade
Fair enough lol I'll give it a try
autumn fossil
Idk I just always have the feeling I get outscaled way too fast with no extra sh...
enemy ship amounts are based off yours. which is why it's usually not a good idea to get (heavy) cruisers
getting a small ship type improves enemy ships by less than a medium ship type does
obsidian glade
That does check out...
wild timber
more player ships is at best a short term boon (reaching s10) and almost always a long term detriment (s15+)
stiff minnow
\o/
shell jasper
man I need to figure out how to run a tournament on this and avoid cheating it
woeful zephyr
man I need to figure out how to run a tournament on this and avoid cheating it
need a usi server and run everything server side
or if it's not real time, have the clients send back the layout for every stage and the server verifies each run by running it, possibly later if the load is too high at the time
shell jasper
oof T.T
obsidian glade
I mean you could just record each battle and then validate them like with advisors after the tournament is done
woeful zephyr
I mean you could just record each battle and then validate them like with adviso...
yeah, that's basically what I said
except the validation has to happen server side
obsidian glade
sylv validating each battle individually on his laptop
shell jasper
:*(
woeful zephyr
sylv validating each battle individually on his laptop
manually XD
obsidian glade
stiff minnow
omg is sylv accusing me of cheating ;;
fervent turret
starting to suspect the 'burst fire' pickups aren't particularly good to grab wi...
screwing around, got both fighter burst upgrades right off the rip, and now I'm losing in stage 2
autumn fossil
yea, for some reason, stage 2 for mono fighters always gives me trouble. you have to be discriminating with early upgrades. no glass cannon, etc
fervent turret
but if the DPS indicated by the tool were actually that good, surely it'd make that difference
autumn fossil
the first burst is always a large dps boost. the second burst usually isn't worth it till later
river hornet
At EOC what is everyone pushing in terms of artifacts?I do everything mostly equally except synth and cap which are far ahead
autumn fossil
i think i'm gonna continue pushing everything until i get softcapped at ~1e7ish
and from there see what's needful to max out anything that's still maxable
ashen nebula
A bit of everything then Cap>Fighter I guess
wild timber
i think i'm gonna continue pushing everything until i get softcapped at ~1e7ish
do you mean e6? you get 2e5 per run so e7 is pretty crazy
autumn fossil
was just throwing a number out there. 1e6 is too low, we're gonna have plenty of time to blitz past that
it takes 45 runs to get everything to 1e6 from 0, which is not a lot in terms of eoc
that's roughly 1 month of UT time
rain kindle
holy moly
i am confused... is higher rank better or rank worse? i have never really bothered or looked at this screen before.
wild timber
it's a leaderboard
you want to be #1
i throw every run so i can check the total number of unique players though
rain kindle
huh. until now, i thought it was random for everyone. didn't realize its the same set of power-ups across the board. 🙁
rain kindle
i throw every run so i can check the total number of unique players though
well.. depends on what you are taking the data for.
I definitely dont play UT every day. just when it gets to 10.
shell jasper
it boggle my mind that so many people run this daily and like go kinda deep too
wild timber
average rewarding minigame nested within broader idle game experience
fleet steppe
FleetGPT training in progress
river flax
Not completely awful
river flax
it boggle my mind that so many people run this daily and like go kinda deep too ...
That's what she said
woeful zephyr
tired blaze
it boggle my mind that so many people run this daily and like go kinda deep too ...
Gib extra reward for clearing stage 20 pl0x
shell jasper
0.2 ai points?
tired blaze
I'll take it.
dire bison
it's a non-zero benefit 🙂
empty cargo
0.2 ai points?
if you redeem the "secret" code while offline you can get ai points not a multiple of 5
woeful zephyr
if you redeem the "secret" code while offline you can get ai points not a multip...
wait what?
how does that work?
obsidian glade
how does that work?
If you enter the code while no internet you get 22 points for the achievement
but none for the actual code because for some reason thats separate and gives 3 extra
so if you then use the code later again you get 3
empty cargo
hi stunthacks
empty cargo
ye
empty cargo
you can get achievement while offline but not code rewards
you can get now and 113107 offline too
woeful zephyr
so only some codes work online only?
empty cargo
wat
empty cargo
only achievement codes work offline
woeful zephyr
except secret for some reason?
obsidian glade
it half works lol
empty cargo
secret is an achievement code and not an achievement code at the same time
obsidian glade
schrödingers code
light verge
testing fighters on mono with beams
- rapid beam: OP. Not only do fighters retain speed, but with enough fire rate upgrades, they will deal a lot of damage fast and reliably. After you get glass cannon and especially on the last UT sector, taking the damage amplifiers are a massive boost to dps.
- heavy split beam: borderline unusable. Fighters are already glass, taking it makes them very slow, akin to corvettes and vulnerable to sniping from even normal ships. The ramping takes too long for it to be profitable on fighters. Low speed on switching targets (low fire rate) makes them an incredible liability even versus the targets the beams are supposed to deal with (clustered enemies)
As there are no ships faster than fighters, there are no other ships that can tank damage for them save cruisers versus a medium matchup. Even then, that's unreliable.
I think fighters shouldn't get penalized on speed for split beams so it can at least be useable to a certain extent, but the best course of action is probably a range buff instead since the slow speed is an indirect buff to their defensive values if mixed with other ships (split beam fighters flying ahead of other ships turns them into a tank role instead with poor damage).
wild timber
does rapid beam actually count as op or is it just heavy split being that bad
like rapid beam vs. other weapon mods in general
autumn fossil
tbh i've never been too impressed with beam fighters in the past, idk if the recent UT changes touched them
neither heavy nor rapid. fighters just die too fast
tired blaze
- rapid beam: OP. Not only do fighters retain speed, but with enough fire rate u...
For what it's worth I got the furthest using heavy split beam after heavy testing. They might die quick, but you have a giant swarm. Only a few need to stick around to kill a bulwark or medium.
Only applies in mono simulation though. For real runs, never pick beam.
wild timber
fervent turret
I've always had better results with split beam than rapid
light verge
ive had better results on weapons that bring immediate results than delayed, scaling damage
a dead target is a target that can't push more dps
light verge
does rapid beam actually count as op or is it just heavy split being that bad
it's prolly more on the rapid beam being good in general than it is being op
split beam takes a while to ramp up
if nothing else at least it's not old charge laser
shell jasper
everyone runs away from fewer choices
light verge
it is after all impractical to run
for the casual UT enjoyer, that usually spells out low quantity of banked clears
for the usual UT enthusiast, it usually spells out dying due to poor rng
ashen nebula
IMO balance is the worst, I will take fewer choices over balance
Duo More Choices More Mods would be the dream day
light verge
balance ain't too bad with Duo
I always avoid fewer choices
you can get bricked by multiple hull rolls
yes, yes, you can use the built-in rerolls to avoid that situation
but i prefer saving them for later to avoid the instanuke missile boats
rain kindle
whats instanuke missile boats? i feel like i probably ran into this, but cant put my finger on it.
dire bison
How far did you mono fighter testing get you, as far as average/max stage reached? And did you include/exclude taking the teleport upgrades on these? I have not had time to do any testing since latest changes.
LOL Just ran a mono fighter taking 3x glass cannon and was not able to clear Stage 2. Definitely have to be careful with picking that upgrade I guess
Simulation mode should allow us to pick which ships we start with.
autumn fossil
lol. stage 2 is always rough with monofighter. don't take glass cannon early. i try to stick with fire rate upgrades early
light verge
How far did you mono fighter testing get you, as far as average/max stage reache...
40
Glass cannon early is suicide
Get glass cannon when enemies stop doing plinking damage and otherwise pretty much oneshot you
autumn fossil
damage upgrades feel like a waste of a choice on fighters. because later on, glass cannon is a strict upgrade over it
dire bison
Thoughts: ranks in GC lower the HP gained from future hull upgrades, so juggling GC/Hull is a net loss to hull over time. Hull amplifier was always valuable, as it allowed more GC. Finding that fire rate is more valuable than before, but not having it affect the rate that the beams ramp up is harsh. Range upgrades help with the speed penalty (if using teleport), but having the range additive instead of %gain is also harsh. Four new upgrade choices vastly reduced the chance of getting any particular choice. Finished the run with only 3 spawn location buffs, got burst 1 in the low 30s, and burst 2 on stage 41, in spite of using rerolls to hunt for upgrades.
Split Beam is not targeting two different targets. I'll try to get a screen shot later, but had 3 bulwarks in very distinct positions around my fighters. I was attacking all three, and it was clear that there were no crossed beams - fighters on the left were only attacking the bulwark on the left, not the other two. All were easily in range of each other. Is this intended behavior? Fighter has 1 turret, but the SS shows "Targets: 2"
Died on stage 42. I think the split beam weapon is fine IF we have teleport ability. Without TP, I would never ever ever take it. So, teleport by stage 6 or I use rapid beam. The speed penalty is too harsh. We have no way to increase our speed through upgrades, and the range increases are awful when you get about 15 range per increase. Also, I do not WANT a way to increase our speed unless it is baked into another buff (Hull boost perhaps), because it's already very difficult to get vital upgrades even when playing on mono.
wild timber
fire rate affecting ramp time might feel better than affecting tick rate
(affecting both sounds a bit op)
i think i still have my spreadsheet for beam mod comparisons somewhere...
baseline
dire bison
Both bulwarks are firing on me, my fighter range has been boosted to 586.5 vs bulwark range of 550, so I am not hitting 2 targets as stated on the weapon sheet. Am I double shooting the closer bulwark? If so, is that always the case ("2" targets, but both targets are always the same ship)? Or is it because the second bulwark got INTO my range after I started double shooting the first, and the weapon does not change targets once it begins to shoot (like still attacking the same ship after teleporting out of normal range of it)?
nova light
it's a beam, plus like all weapons they don't change targets
dire bison
Just replayed that battle. There were some ships to the left of this attacking while the first bulwark was engaged. The second bulwark flew into range, and then engaged combat. Then, the smaller ships on the left were killed and all of my fighters engaged the first bulwark while ignoring the second. So, "Targets: 2" does not mean 2 different targets
nova light
huh
nova light
it definitely did before
dire bison
All enemy ships were within range and firing
or this one, showing it isn't just against medium enemies.
light verge
Behavior according to my tests says its every time
Poor fire rate of the split beam makes it painful to have it switch between targets
There's like an almost 1 second delay before a new target begins roasting
dire bison
or just sometimes?
You can usually only spot it in high levels and/or against high HP enemies (relative to your firepower) because otherwise the enemy dies too quickly for it to register visually. Like, I can't tell vs skirmishers or 6pack enemies. But it becomes very easy to spot once you're in the 30s because that's when it takes several ticks for the enemy to die. Once you get to the point where you can see the behavior, it is constant and very hard to miss seeing.
bulwarks are the best for it, because they have very high HP and very low rate of fire, so they will last a long time vs the fighters. Putting two bulwarks against one 9 fighter patrol would be easy to see
shell jasper
beams dont instant kill early on do they?
dire bison
no, but the enemy is usually in larger packs. So 9 fighters against 6 skirmishers is hard to visually trace out before the number of skirms/fighters change
grouping several 9fighter packs on top of each other makes it more difficult
Tested with vettes. They also have 1 turret and 2 targets with heavy splitter beam. Two of my vettes are in range of the enemy, and both are firing at both enemies. So the problem might be fighter specific
vital oar
when will new mods appear from now please?
i will try to remember for future
atm its Balance for me
obsidian glade
What do you mean?
obsidian glade
We all have the same modifiers every day, and they change every run you do
vital oar
this will change
vital oar
ic thx, so around 8-9 a.m. for me
12 hours left till 4/4 and 4 days i hope for better mod..
obsidian glade
I heard that one today is supposed to be kinda fun though
vital oar
ima go watch Suits:)
not up for starwars atm
obsidian glade
Have fun lol
vital oar
lets make a wish:
i want
DUO
NO EXTRA SHIPS
MORE smth
(and decent ship picks)
thatll make me happy for certain
--
we need to make a suggestion to Sylv to lower consumption of banked clears per use down to 1 from 2
its pretty exhausting to worry about:
- low cap for Instability charges 4/4 only and 4 days astrium
- tiny chance of close to perfect modificators combo
- doing all those long runs
woeful zephyr
More mods and more choices
vital oar
i have best stage at around 20+ and it only lasts for like 5 uses - which is what? 3 days?
i definitely dont get decent modificators and willing to run again every weeks or twice
i think 1 banked per run instead of 2 would be just acceptable
or maybe its time to give up and start using Banked stage:7 runs and not worry
obsidian glade
or maybe its time to give up and start using Banked stage:7 runs and not worry
thats what I'm doing 9/10 days unless there's a cool modifier combo
obsidian glade
might just be utc
vital oar
but already
obsidian glade
in which case 2 hours ago
wild timber
midnight utc yeah
vital oar
midnight utc yeah
thx but would be nice if u can tell how many hours from now has this midnight utc happened
vital oar
2 a.m. ill try to remember
dire bison
A countdown timer on the UT page would be a nice QOL addition
woeful zephyr
A countdown timer on the UT page would be a nice QOL addition
hey, grountsel is back!
wild timber
???
do people also think balance is a good mod just like how they think no extra ships is bad
empty cargo
they "sound" good
woeful zephyr
you need to know that the enemy strength scales with your ship count to know NES is good, and the game doesn't say that anywhere
balance is at least explained
otherwise it sounds like you're just facing the same enemy ships without any extra ships yourself, which would be bad
dire bison
hey, grountsel is back!
Almost, gonna be absent a lot next few months - OT time at work 😄
storm bay
do people also think balance is a good mod just like how they think no extra shi...
it's more that duo is good and balance doesn't screw it up too much
or is that yesterday?
storm bay
got no barriers this run sadge
it's like if you don't get them in the first half, you're never gonna get them
nova light
duo is good and having balanced on duo is actually pretty useful but generally balance is bad
light verge
A good duo pull is you having two useful ships per ship type and a shrunken pool of possible ships
Kind of crap though if you end up with a shitty collection of heavy cruisers and frigates tho
I love it when it gives me corvettes or fighters and a cruiser
storm bay
2 smalls are good
dire bison
cruiser / HC was interesting.
storm bay
even if it's frigate/vet like today
dire bison
I like frigate and vette, esp if I can get one or both of their fleet bonuses.
light verge
Frigate and vette is solid
I mald when its frigate and fighter
Fighter dps from the beginning is crap and both ship types are glass
At least with corvettes when i get charge lasers or missiles i can change the course of destiny
ashen nebula
What a week lol
fervent turret
-# clearly people been asking for too much balance
empty cargo
balance enjoyer
light verge
Sylv's update:
Implemented Transit Balancer.
All Unstable Transits are more balanced.
Players: not like this bro
empty cargo
rip to dumbness
wild timber
balanced now applies to mod types as well as ship types
hope you enjoy mandatory 25% range and hull upgrades too
jade bough
Damn wasn't paying attention to how many missile enemies there were
I wish our missiles were as strong as theirs
autumn fossil
the range difference between our missiles and theirs is wild
wild timber
armor block is not good at countering missiles either after like s15
maybe it should turn into reactive armor for cruisers but that might get silly
ashen nebula
Give our ship some CIWS to shoot down the missiles.
dire bison
shell jasper
Tested with vettes. They also have 1 turret and 2 targets with heavy splitter be...
hum fighters are seemingly splitting ok. it must be something even more specific
ill just ignore it for now, low priority
dire bison
Thanks for checking 🙂
vital oar
do people also think balance is a good mod just like how they think no extra shi...
how no extra ships is bad???
i love no extra ships,
and i hate balance mod
wild timber
it's not about whether it's actually good or not
it's about whether people not in this discord perceive it as good
light verge
no extra ships sounds like you're gimped because you only get the few ships you're handed to you
but as we all know
it also doesn't add enemy ships following that scaling factor
which can snowball out of control in terms of dps
against you
river flax
Wait why, they're both very good?
light verge
i'm tryin to make a joke
where you spent your luck in simulation
both wont show up in standard
woeful zephyr
"spent your luck"
empty cargo
ount
light verge
which upgrade would you like for your frigates? Yes.
full frountal assault
light verge
Mistakes were had with the FiFri duo
The frigates had charge laser
It was great
...the fighters i thought i could get away with lasers
For the most part did, but i am HARD WALLED by missiles
And they tend to be around because lasers are fast
On that note do we actually have spawn weights somewhere
Like how often so and so spawns based on weapon builds
soft lagoon
Any way to see what the leaderboard on a particular day actually is? It would be fun to see wat everyone's different strategy was.
wild timber
Any way to see what the leaderboard on a particular day actually is? It would b...
not in-game but that's exactly why i throw my first run of the day away
oh wait
z69
yeah rip
soft lagoon
Not part of the G8 clear club yet. I'm a very lazy idle player.
How do you get more than one run anyways? Sim?
wild timber
if you're done with galaxies you generate almost exactly an extra 0.5 runs/day from fuel
baseline is 0.4 extra UT runs per day from fuel before efficiency
soft lagoon
Ah, right.
dire bison
Good mods. Beware fleets full of missile enemies, some combos were ridiculous. Got fleet barrage on frigate, zero base options were avail, 2 spawn bonus (both late game), early(ish) fighter barrier helped a lot.
woeful zephyr
I cleared 28 on run 2 of today
it was more mods, no extra ships, balance
same as the first run mods except replace more choices with more mods
autumn fossil
hmm, i was looking pretty leery at today, i don't like balance with 4 ship types, but you guys are saying the no extra ships and more choices/mods makes up for it?
woeful zephyr
hmm, i was looking pretty leery at today, i don't like balance with 4 ship types...
yeah
dire bison
It isn't ideal, but it worked better than expected to refill the banked stages.
woeful zephyr
all cruiser duo is interesting
if there are any enemy snipers they get ignored until all the mediums are dead
wow this duo is terrible..
wild timber
hmm, i was looking pretty leery at today, i don't like balance with 4 ship types...
looking at ut mods is ultimately like a weather forecast
it lets you make an informed decision but then you can still just randomly get owned by rain (burn all rerolls and never see charge laser once or some shit)
woeful zephyr
swarmers are the kryptonite to cruisers it turns out..
wild timber
or the opposite, where the 2nd run of yesterday gave you like 4 high value rares in 5 stages
normal prism
Does Astrium fuel efficiency affect Unstable Transit - anyone knows, please?
light verge
fuel efficiency basically makes it cheaper to buy instability
tired blaze
I think fighter barrier needs to be nerfed. Or potentially just removed as an option for them. For slow firing enemy ships, they single handedly carry late stage fights where nothing survives more than 1 hit anyway. It's super binary atm. You either get barrier fighters and are allowed to go far, or you don't and end up suffering.
Same story for missle enemies. I fear them more than I do Bulwarks. A single shot can take out half your fleet because of how missle tracking works. I recommend a range nerf, or a max number of target switching nerf, but any nerf would be welcome.
wild timber
i mean if you remove barrier then doesn't that just mean you always "end up suffering"
tired blaze
Yes.
wild timber
oh ok
tired blaze
Unless you suggest we give fighters a barrier natively, but that kinda goes against the design of UT.
wild timber
it's more that i'd still rather not feel sucky investing in fighters all the time, especially for the sake of late stage balance
going beyond 10 is still meant to be a bonus, not the expectation
tired blaze
your investment is meant for late stages
you'll get to 10 with pretty much any setup
wild timber
tired blaze
Well gotta speak up about it if ya want Sylv to make it a higher prio.
Another option I just thought of is maybe reducing the number of fighters from 9 to 6 if you get the barrier upgrade. Then buffing dps to compensate of course. That might be enough to make it less of a must-have.
tired blaze
Was it? I don't recall
Barrier also didn't block simultaneous shots back then
Anyway I'm not big brained like Sylv is, I leave it to him to decide.
cloud hatch
imo the missile enemies are more of a problem than barrier fighters, they just seem WAY over tuned
wild timber
they actually got nerfed like twice i think, but they're still super op
shell jasper
id rather they be a little too godo and fun then useless or bad
maybe an option woudl be to make barrier only reduce by /10 or /100 instead of /1000?
wild timber
well i don't think that'll affect fighters much, either they can take 2 hits or 1 hit before dying
shell jasper
isnt the issue barrier is too good late game?
so if barrier just gets overcome by raw damage sooner then 
fervent turret
it's our only late game defensive tool
single cruisers, hull, and the rare hull thing, all do nothing still
cloud hatch
they actually hurt cause those could have been damage upgrades
fervent turret
the damage amount doesn't matter, everything takes either 1 hit or 2 hits with barrier and that's it
kinda depends what the 'goal line' for 'end game if played well' is meant to be
shell jasper
I dunno what you mean that the damage amoutn doesnt matter
if barriers only /100 instead of /1000 that means the fighters will die in 1 hit sooner
fervent turret
that becomes the case so quickly, that they die in 1 hit, that it doesn't matter
shell jasper
what I thought they dont die in 1 hit which makes them strong?
fervent turret
that's only true for like, the first 8-12 stages, somewhere in that range I think. maybe as far as 15 depending on some enemies/weapons involved?
fervent turret
I haven't paid much attention to it frankly I just go in with the assumption they're gonna die in 1 hit
oh I thought we were talking without barrier
dying in 1 hit with barrier? I don't know if I've spotted it happening in current circumstances, MLs if they're present wipe things so quickly
shell jasper
ah ok ya. The thought was barrier fired or super strong, so reducing how much barrier absorbs just means they arent the garuntteed wsurvive later thingy, at least not as far out
fervent turret
if they weren't already hard countered by MLs then like... maybe?
any MLs being present just make barriers on the whole fleet pointless
like, if it's just 1 ML, sometimes positioning can overcome (which is where everyone is pretty much at atm with pushing UT I reckon)
cloud hatch
ML's do a pretty good job of making your entire fleet pointless
yeah pretty much anything over like 16 if there's more than 1 ML it's probably a loss
fervent turret
if barriers get changed to be overcome by a certain amount of damage I feel like they should take a certain amount of damage to be removed, too - as in 1 ML hit not likely to reach a point of stripping barrier in 1 hit (or at least, for the bigger ships - maybe have it partially based on their base HP amount or something)
cloud hatch
feels bad when the strat is "reroll, hoping not to get ML's, and ignore the bonus"
nova light
they actually got nerfed like twice i think, but they're still super op
three times, though one of those don't really matter in UT
...I think?
uh, compared to g6 I think they are the same
nova light
Was it? I don't recall
it did, and looked weird af
nova light
dying in 1 hit *with* barrier? I don't know if I've spotted it happening in curr...
that only happens if you take like 30 copies of glass cannon
nova light
ML's do a pretty good job of making your entire fleet pointless
when you get to super high UT stages, stat numbers don't mean much anymore and purely the number of shots is what matters
cloud hatch
yeah and ML's shoot a ton, have huge range, and are usually protected by a bunch other enemy ships
nova light
the range is a good point too
cloud hatch
and your crusiers/heavy cruisers tend to ignore them and shoot at the meat shield other big ships
nova light
feels bad when the strat is "reroll, hoping not to get ML's, and ignore the bonu...
really the best way to deal with them is to avoid them because if you get stuck with one back row missiles with swarmers and a bulwark in front, you're dead
cloud hatch
ML's are pretty much cl snipe and barrage missile launchers at the same time
they don't feel particularly fair
tired blaze
maybe an option woudl be to make barrier only reduce by /10 or /100 instead of /...
That's an interesting approach that only affects late stages. Don't hate it. But it's not elegant or intuitive when that cutoff happens without UI changes.
storm bay
yeah the range on the MLs is bs
wild timber
not true, it's very skillful on the enemy's part and they should actually get range buffed
light verge
late game fighters or barrier users are just functionally 2 hit targets
i would argue you should remove glass cannon instead if we were going around this topic, but i wouldn't personally recommend it
in lategame the glass cannon dmg boost is far too high for practcally no con
that missile enemy is going to shoot you down in 1 hit anyway (2 if barriered)
shell jasper
would a reverse glass cannon be a cooler one?
thats liek big
kind of a "heres a way to actually survive late stuff, but its gonna cost ALOT of damage too"
fervent turret
for everything other than 'hull bomb' I see that being pure downsides
killing things before you get 2-tapped is how late stuff goes
going from that to "okay now it's a few more hits but you can't kill anything"? 🤷♂️
depends how crazy you're talking with 'actually survive' perhaps, lol
empty cargo
eternal battle
fervent turret
fwiw I've tried a few sim runs with the idea of 'tank w/ hull-bombing cruiser/HC with CLs in back'
it always falls flat because there's just no way to get enough hull
if upgrades were sort of split into 2 choices each round, 1 offensive & 1 defensive, then I reckon that possibility would open up?
and I guess you could like, deny the split for mono to keep that more in line with the other options
cloud hatch
that'd ensure nobody would get too high
the only way to climb real high is pure offence
fervent turret
I don't mean 'every other upgrade is offensive or defensive'
I mean each upgrade you get, you pick 2 benefits
1 offensive and one defensive
cloud hatch
ahh
that still doesn't really fix the ML problem, if you manage to avoid them all then you'll get a way higher clear
fervent turret
that's one of the things I would want to try if that happened - countering the MLs by having tanky frigates, maybe
cloud hatch
if you can out tank ML's, then you'll do really well if they aren't there
fervent turret
aggroing all the initial missile waves onto just a few points and preserving barriers elsewhere
I don't think it'd be outright out-tanking them, just 'be able to absorb/deflect missiles long enough to be a worthwhile strategy'
shell jasper
one of the general "balacne problems"
is just how deep you CAN go with specific stuff
light verge
ye
shell jasper
its almost more like that stuff needs to be less effective more so then anythign else I guess
caus elike... htes nthing I coudl do scaling wise tha tlets you suriive for real at like 25+
light verge
i like glass cannon for actually offering an important choice though
taking it early is actually going to brick your run
fervent turret
is stage 25 your goal line for 'how deep players oughta go if they try', then?
because if we know what that goal line is it'd be easier to tell you how viable the options feel compared with one another, I reckon
shell jasper
if upgrades were sort of split into 2 choices each round, 1 offensive & 1 defens...
oh a specific setup like this might be interesting
It would neccisitate actually interesting defense options though which I dont have haha
shell jasper
is stage 25 your goal line for 'how deep players oughta go if they try', then?
oh no I just picked that at "random" for where it probably is ultra broken down by
fervent turret
yeah I mean atm it'd be like, choosing which ships get hull+ and range+ and the odd barrier/grid-barrier upgrades
shell jasper
10 failry easy, 10+ should get hard pretty fast, 20+ should be very very difficuult
I guess? ><
fervent turret
feels a lil short for a roguelike dungeon deal but alright lol
in that light I guess I'd have to agree the 'effective options' are pretty collectively overshooting the target
shell jasper
its "short" but theres not much to it so its gotta stay kinda short imo or really wears itself out fast haha
cloud hatch
we were hitting low 30's last galaxy on good runs
so "only" hitting 20 now feels kinda bad
fervent turret
us 'older gen' USI'ers will live 😛 it's the overall experience at stake after all
empty cargo
UT isnt really balanced post 10
cloud hatch
i just think ML's have no downsides, they're too good in all areas
fervent turret
that said I would likely go ham if it were actually an 'endless dungeon' vibe
cloud hatch
and with the different flavors of armor/shielding, it's pretty likely they're gonna end your run cause a ton of them can show up
shell jasper
itd be rpetty easy to make it an endless dugeon vibe
just reduce the every 10 scaling increase
but I feel like itd be soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo boring to go far haha
cloud hatch
yeah and i don't think too many people would even bother, plenty of people just take the banked 7 thing every day and never do UT period
on a side note, any possible way to make it so that your entire fleet doesn't try shooting the same target when multiples are available, waaaay overkill and you just watch 20 projectiles disappear in mid air cause the first 2 killed it
shell jasper
not in any easy fashion (meaning outside of totes changing targetting lol)
fervent turret
would probably affect all prior galaxy experiences too, for considering targeting improvements (still worthwhile imo)
cloud hatch
yeah it'd change galaxy as well..though not nearly as much since the goal is as few ships as possible, so it doesn't really come up as bad as it does in UT
dire bison
kind of a "heres a way to actually survive late stuff, but its gonna cost ALOT o...
I would never take it. Enemy HP at late stages is far too high for any nerf to our damage output.
shell jasper
itd be to tank with a ship I think
although stakcing all upgartdes on one ship seems to be the meta anyhow so not relaly work
light verge
although stakcing all upgartdes on one ship seems to be the meta anyhow so not r...
Scaling is too fast
For 1-10 this is not a problem you can scrape by
But if you didnt stack upgrades on one ship for dps (and you would otherwise have no room for hp upgrades)
You're dead
If enemies have upwards to 8e4 hp on 35+ you are still going to die
dire bison
I never solo stack upgrades on a single ship type, and I've done fairly well in UT.
certainly not 35+ though lol
shell jasper
It's possible it could get way better with like more restrictions put in and then balancing the enemy's appropriately too
Like that earlier split of offense and defense stuff so you're forced into some semblance of having some of each
And then have it balanced so that it actually matters on the enemy side a little
dire bison
I like that idea. Hull, regen shields, point defense cannons, evasive maneuver (fighters only, really), etc
I also like the idea of secondary bonus. Pick the 5% damage for the cruise, and the others get 1% (or whatever number). So every ship is getting at least a little love as we advance.
For ML, putting a hard cap on the number of them in a wave would be an option. Saw some fleets with 4+ ML, and there is simply no surviving that.
fervent turret
I never solo stack upgrades on a single ship type, and I've done fairly well in ...
the game kinda prevents it too though, even without 'balance' on
I've noticed it seems to keep a certain level of 'spreading the upgrades' just by default
light verge
The system has a rudimentary matchup system that works for it somewhat
E.g. picking missiles blatantly puts way more swarmers than you usually face
Incidentally this makes charge lasers more powerful than it should normally be since it gets paired with sniper groups
fervent turret
I like that idea. Hull, regen shields, point defense cannons, evasive maneuver (...
thing is with "extra features" is we can expect them to get gradually added with future galaxy/UT's, right?
I'm looking forward to UT destroyers
eventually, of course, no pressure Sylv 😛
dire bison
I think CL is more powerful than it normally would be because of how undertuned the range upgrade is. So many weapons need to get 20-30+ upgrades to reach ML/snipers
dire bison
thing is with "extra features" is we can expect them to get gradually added with...
yeah, agreed. I think we'd need to change how they were offered, though. GC/DamAmp/HullAmp have made the other, existing upgrades less likely to appear
cloud hatch
when the only way to win is "shoot them before they shoot me", yeah the longest range weapon is going to come out on top
fervent turret
yeah, agreed. I think we'd need to change how they were offered, though. GC/DamA...
splitting the offense/defense I think would address it, at least to an extent
dire bison
I think it would help, as long as it isn't "pick 1 offensive for 1 ship type, pick 1 defensive for one ship type, next wave begins" Unless the defensive boosts were REALLY powerful, we'd be in trouble quickly.
cloud hatch
turbo barrier, takes 10 hits to deplete
dire bison
Reinforcements 😄
cloud hatch
oo that come in behind the enemy, pincer attack!
honestly that would be a fairly cool base upgrade, have it send reinforcements every x seconds
dire bison
yeah, that'd have to be a base, so powerful. Maybe even a 1shot, not repeating every x seconds. But it'd be great fun
woeful zephyr
None run of the day: UT Classic
fleet steppe
Maybe there could be different UT "mission types" where the enemy scales in different ways beyond all stats up
Enemies that scale with higher hull per stage would encourage you to pick up some bulk so you can fight the attrition war instead of going all in on damage and explode after one hit
Enemies that scale with higher damage per stage would be like it is now, all in on damage/fire rate/glass cannon
IDK if primary range scaling would be enough for significant differences in upgrade selection
Enemy could still get hull increases on a Damage Primary mission, it just wouldn't be nearly as much
Other idea for variety would be something like a "Lock Lane"
Lock Lane: Found in the Restriction Pool. Format: [Row or Column], [Stage Count], [Potential Penalty]
For Instance, a Lock Lane could look like: Row 4, 3 Stages
The Lock Lane requires a ship to be present in the Row/Column for each deployment (can be more than one) (in this case Row 4), and after 3 stages, the Lock is removed.
Another Example could be: Column B, 2 Stages, If Broken: Fleet Fire Rate -15%
This Lock Lane lasts for 2 Stages, and requires at least one ship in Column B. While those conditions aren't particularly harsh, the penalty for all of the Lock Lane ships being destroyed lowers your fleet's collective fire rate by 15% for the remainder of the fight. This shouldn't be a hard pick for a normal run, but on a No Extra Ships mod run, against enemy teleporters, or maybe just early in your run, it could give you something to think about.
Other Restrictions would go into the pool to add variety
woeful zephyr
wow triple rare
autumn fossil
I'm kinda disappointed in the value of hull bomb
and frigate barriers to tbh. late runs it makes them as squishy as no barrier corvettes :/
fervent turret
it just takes so many hull upgrades for hull bomb to feel viable
and yeah frigates atm I view as "has to use snipe CLs, no alternative"
being 2 smallship targets as opposed to 4 or 8 with corvette/fighters is a disadvantage always... unless there were a possibility to make them hull tanks, at least enough that positioning vs MLs would be viable
with no frigate hullbomb thing going on (or the split offense/defense upgrade idea I spitballed earlier), there's just no reason to even try it
fleet steppe
Wonder if Mediums could get a Tractor Beam upgrade that yoinks far away units to it
mildly awkward since the medium ships they prioritize won't be the ones they are targetting, but it would be nice to pull missiles and snipers
tired blaze
So like a reverse teleport?
dire bison
Anyone checking out other weapons with the introduction of GC/DamAmp/HullAmp? Got a corvette mono sim to 45 with barrage missiles
wondering if 50 has been reached yet
light verge
40 with rapid beams
woeful zephyr
🤔
river flax
Oh on sim
humble bough
Who needs hull?
dawn gate
think I got to 17 my first try with the hardest mode, base didn't take any damage but then I went up against a enemy setup I just had no chance at beating. Wiped out most of mine in seconds and took my base one in one shot. Enemy missles OP
fleet steppe
second run of the day
hmmmmmmmm
CL is a trap with double cruisers rip
should have known better
too many swarmers show up too often
wild timber
yeah want a beam/missile first for sure
light verge
doublecruisers can't keep up with swarmers
especially when fire rate is bitch
beam actually gets farther lol
rapid beam guarantees an easy 20
split beam can probably get you farther
storm bay
if you can get hull bomb it kinda works
fervent turret
I wonder how much of ML feeling viable is thanks to extra rockets hitting backline units while the ship is targeting closer ones
woeful zephyr
🤔
autumn fossil
got 24 with dual split beam. felt nice but i had such a hard time with swarmers
maybe a mix of split and rapid beam would have been better
i got lucky with a 5x damage tile and four 2x damage tiles all in the front row
the extra range from the 5x tile is really nice with beams
but it feels like the only real counter to swarmers is missiles
wild timber
there's some awkward antisynergy where armored cruiser should in THEORY be good vs. swarmers because of the damage block, but if you don't have any small units like today, the net loss in fire rate (it's still a loss, just got much smaller after the buffs) and inability to target snipers means you take a lot of additional damage anyway
woeful zephyr
I think I'm barely going to be able to make the window for starting that sweet 2nd daily run (UTC midnight is in 2h29m41s as of the screenshot) 😬
9m49s window to start it before the day changes if my math is right
saved runs can be continued if you save and exit and continue after the day changes, right?
shell jasper
yup but I dotn recall if it puts you on leaderboard then or not
dire bison
hax
woeful zephyr
it's the second run of the day so there's no ranking anyway
you can have 5 burst fire on 1 ship type? roflmao 😆
make that 6.. 😄
damn stage 30 is hard af.. died at stage 30
nova light
you can have 5 burst fire on 1 ship type? roflmao 😆
you can have as many as you get
tired blaze
A shame burst fires beyond 3 is a damage loss lol
tired blaze
Rank 1 two days in a row! 
light verge
sköl
river flax
Grats
shell jasper
anyone got run modifier suggestions?
cloud hatch
if you have banked fuel, the third run for today is pretty great, duo/no extra ships with fighter/frigate, and the first or second round reward option is fighter barriers
cloud hatch
anyone got run modifier suggestions?
i'd suggest something like 600 range/6 targets for ML enemies 🙂
shell jasper
as a run modifier?
cloud hatch
aha no as a "they're too strong and need adjustment" thing
but are you asking about "fun" mods?
shell jasper
ya just hanvet had a new one since original UT stuff so might be time for more if can think of somet htat make sense and arent like.. absurd to implement lol
cloud hatch
range in general would be interesting, either increasing player range or decreasing enemy range
we had talked about reinforcements a bit ago...that'd probably be hard to implement but would be quite interesting
"more rare mods" wouldn't really be interesting from the "changing things up" perspective, but it would produce some deeper runs
shell jasper
hum I spose thats an easy one to do
cloud hatch
"all/no large ships", so you get either just cruiser/hc, or vette/frig/fighter
shell jasper
oooh also pretty easy. though a good bit more dull then other one
cloud hatch
technically just cruiser/hc is the worst duo you could get, but it still might shake things up with the vette/frig/fighter option
"more extra ships", fill up the board faster but once you're full it doesn't change much (granted, in "regular" UT runs you aren't often filling up the whole board)
"more grid options" would also be pretty neat
i don't really think it'd be needed, but an "easy" difficulty that slightly reduces the scaling
but if you're just wanting to have more options so we get a lot fewer "none" days, then it might be worth it
river flax
anyone got run modifier suggestions?
Capped at wave 9
0.5x speed
No resets
Always choosing the first listed option
Only health/range upgrades
cloud hatch
i'd imagine it'd be rough to implement, but bringing in over some hazards/supports from G6 or something
cloud hatch
<:Troll:1042672077003558963>
some of us actually LIKE running UT
shell jasper
i'd imagine it'd be rough to implement, but bringing in over some hazards/suppor...
its just tricky to do that in a non weirdly swingy way I think. laser hazards would just make whoever its shooting lose more or less, or do nothing if eveyrones damage so high that its one shots but lasers kill nothing ><
cloud hatch
"use all resets to go back to the last selection cause you got greedy and picked the option you knew you were gonna lose on, but couldn't resist the really good upgrade so you can pick the safe one and get to the next stage"
not sure how to fit that one in 2 or 3 words, but it happens to me a lot more than i'd like it to
shell jasper
whats the damage on enemies looking like at 35ish? ><
wild timber
anyone got run modifier suggestions?
every tile has a random grid bonus
changes each round
works on enemies too
watching the enemy missile with x5 range x5 damage x0.25 fire rate charge up the volley of doom
shell jasper
hrm, I wonder if that one can be random show or too sadge/annoying
wild timber
it should be
shell jasper
you can def just get a forced loss with that id bet haha
wild timber
otherwise nobody will see it
cloud hatch
make it not kick in till stage 10?
shell jasper
hrm ok maybe
should more rare modes be like. modestly more? or literally rainin rares?
wild timber
another one is every ship having x100 speed
which is actually advantageous most of the time because you can delete snipers
shell jasper
movement speed? game go break lol
wild timber
x5 then
cloud hatch
should more rare modes be like. modestly more? or literally rainin rares?
modestly, there's gonna be a wall due to scaling so it should still be a bit random/lucky to hit it
shell jasper
could ddo a framerate killer mode. more movement, more fire speed, less damage
wild timber
should more rare modes be like. modestly more? or literally rainin rares?
probably 5%?
cloud hatch
yeah maybe 20% rare mods?
wild timber
i think grids are a little too rare on normal runs (they have diminishing returns as you get more ships in your fleet) but the other stuff is fine
cloud hatch
not TOO high, but you'll still probably get one every other or third round
wild timber
or maybe it should be like
shell jasper
errr wait I mean for the special "this modifier gives more rare mods" mode
wild timber
regular x2 damage or fire rate or hull is non-rare
then the really good ones (x2 damage+hull, x2 damage+fire rate) are
oh
it should rain rares because there's actually a funny failure state
where you can get too many burst fires
and start losing dps
wild timber
anyone got run modifier suggestions?
extreme + no choice + 9001 rerolls
shell jasper
uh iirc grid buffs are already split between rare or very rare
wild timber
i don't think any grid buffs are listed as very rare at least
but the good ones def seem rarer so maybe that's true internally
shell jasper
listed?
wild timber
yeah, like the ui still just says it's rare for like, x2 damage + x2 fire rate
which is the "best" one
shell jasper
oh really hrm ok ill check
storm bay
very rare is only base bonuses and fleet buffs iirc
shell jasper
well my data has a rarity setting for the grid ones and some say very rare
unsure if the display is just skipping it
or if the whole thing is skipping it lol
wild timber
anyone got run modifier suggestions?
every unit starts with 5 barrier
storm bay
my mind palace doesn't recall a slot buff with a very rare tag
wild timber
and maybe fighters/swarmers guaranteed not to be in the pool
shell jasper
every unit starts with 5 barrier
hrm what are the implications there lol
cloud hatch
whats the damage on enemies looking like at 35ish? ><
sniper listed: 32.3 s34: 1382.86 s35: 1680.88
medium listed: 22.5 s34: 963.29 s35: 1170.89
shell jasper
sniper listed: 32.3 s34: 1382.86 s35: 1680.88
medium listed: 22.5 s34: 963.29 s3...
oh great thanks
wild timber
hrm what are the implications there lol
charge and beam found dead in a ditch
burst fire beyond 2 is a dps gain still
shell jasper
lmao
wild timber
probably becomes close range missile meta
shell jasper
uh, so barrier being /100 instead of /1000 would mean youd get 1 shot there
wild timber
oh yeah base's counterattack also only does 999 damage so some enemies at higher stages don't even die from it
aka bulwarks
shell jasper
ok too many thingies going on. so we got:
- Rarer mods: 25% and 5% rare and very rare instead of default 6% 1%
- Grids everywhere randomly
- Frame rate destroyer move speed + fire rate - damage
- Barrier party 5 barriers for eeryone
wild timber
extreme + no choice + 9001 rerolls
:^(
shell jasper
thats a combo lol
wild timber
yeah but extreme and no choice don't show up in normal runs anyway
so it would be exclusive to being in the combo
shell jasper
<
storm bay
i like grids everywhere randomly
cloud hatch
random grid days will be fun
storm bay
every fight, every slot has a different bonus
wild timber
works both ways tho
storm bay
ye
shell jasper
hrm, what about on reset, should it shuffle every fight attempt?
wild timber
that would be incredibly funny but probably not
i think i said earlier that it should also come with a healthier base though
as rng protection
shell jasper
ya thatd make sense
wild timber
also for non run mod stuff uhh
armor cruiser mod still bad lol
like, if the main draw is supposed to be the armor, the armor sucks
otherwise, could just further buff damage/range/fire rate values until it "feels" good
storm bay
yeah -3 or whatever it is is laughably bad
wild timber
i think it would be funny if the armor got mega buffed and then all enemies try to prioritize armored cruiser if in range though
that would probably need substantial targeting reworks to support tho
wild timber
i think armor is like x2 hp and 2% armorblock atm
would keep it at x1 hp and have like, 20% armor block or some shit so it's basically invincible vs. smalls and only dies against being ganged up on by mediums/snipers
shell jasper
uh ill buff the thing stats I dont think any saving armor really without like absurd reworks
iirc it still lets a min damage throuhg
which makes it irrelevant
wild timber
25% yeah
the 25% cutoff is actually okish vs. enemy missiles, at least until stage 15ish
river flax
Hey Sylv if you rework UT can you do my UT change k thx
wild timber
heavy cruiser has some annoying rounding on the base damage that makes it leave enemies with like 0.2 hp instead of just dying for those stages
like why isn't that 80
shell jasper
womp
cloud hatch
the 1 turret of HC make them feel pretty bad in general
wild timber
it's more the 1.7 speed i think
they have issues with getting in range before charge/beam
wild timber
that sounds funny but i think it won't have a ton of impact
hmm
lemme go find another mod
shell jasper
just 2x fire rate, same as 2 ships except cant split targeting
wild timber
nightmare
cloud hatch
aha i mean that kinda IS supposed to be the counter, lots of smaller ships against the big ol ones...it just feels bad when the enemy does it to us
wild timber
it's skewed when stages 2-4 can't spawn mediums and just fill everything with smalls
cloud hatch
it's also simulation...but we CAN get cruiser/hc duos (like 2 of em this past week)
cloud hatch
so yeah actually kind of a problem
wild timber
shell jasper
ah just display issue
wild timber
burst didn't spawn until 30
ok
so x1.2 damage and x1.7 fire rate currently, which is increasing to x2
shell jasper
thinking 1.05 damage 2 fire rate
empty cargo
what if enemies do % damage to base
wild timber
honestly i was wondering if x1.2 damage x2 fire rate was enough
or if it was still gonna be a grief pick lol
shell jasper
uh, 1.05 damage 2.1 fir rate
wild timber
net x2.4 vs. net x2.205
the real problem is that the downsides are huge
bad at screening and splitting fire
so a bonus of 10%-20% (2.4 / 2) is pretty mediocre for the cost
cloud hatch
honestly i'd have expected the hull to actually increase since you're entering "tank" mode
wild timber
maybe make it x4 hull instead of x2 lul
cloud hatch
not like that matters much though, same concept as the armor
x4 hull, blocks 100 damage
might be worth it
wild timber
flat 100 is just an autowin until stage 30 i think
cloud hatch
yeah 100 is way too high
but at 34 a medium is still doing 963 damage, so even wth 4x health and blocking 100 it's gonna get one shot (without hull upgrades)
balancing around deep runs is problematic
wild timber
ye
i think x3-x4 hull is pretty safe though
i also think it should x2 barrier
since you lose 1 atm when going from 2 barriered ships to 1
wild timber
probably like 15 for stage 10 and 40 for stage 20
cloud hatch
skirmishers do 5.31 and normal enemies do 15.16 on stage 15
cloud hatch
a number
stage 20 is 9.08 and 25.93
yeah honestly like 30 damage block doesn't sound TOO unreasonable, it falls off enough where it doesn't matter at all past like stage 30, but it'll get you to 20 pretty free and hopefully by then you have gotten a few good upgrades
shell jasper
gonna be a lot of teleport chaos lol
huh, this one keeps stomping me on stage 2 ><
oh and enemies survive a base shot with barrier lmao
wild timber
you have 2 enemies with barrier
and it's stage 2
it's expected to get owned because default weapons suck at killing enemies
cloud hatch
can you also also add a little help tooltip chart that had the icons of the grid buffs and the words? just in case someone doesn't know what the icon means (and you can't move the enemy ships to read)
cloud hatch
chaotic, love it
shell jasper
clicking enemy tells youg ridb uff the have
cloud hatch
had that read that a few times to figure out if it was a weird text to speech thing, but it was just the spaces being off, aha
but i didn't know you could get grid info from clicking enemy, good to know
empty cargo
oh and enemies survive a base shot with barrier lmao
old galaxy player ship surviving enemy base
light verge
anyone got run modifier suggestions?
+200% range all enemies and allies and Enemies get +50% more hull
Reinforcements. 50% less enemy spawns, equal amount of enemy reinforcements as there are enemies on the map after 5 sec prolly pair with Balance for equalizing measure on ally side
runs that change your armor type from standard to armor and enemies still have the appropriate weapons (missiles become frightening foes)
all tiles have modifiers but also enemy tiles also do
reversed speed modifiers?
e.g. slowest ship classes fastest and fighters are slowest
Morale nodes?
Grid spaces where your ships get a bonus to performance if the ships comprising it are alive, but you get a stat reduction if they're dead?
e.g. All ships deployed x1.25 stats when ship in grid is alive, 0.75x stats when no ships in this grid are alive (multiplicative, start with 2 of these grids placed at random), speed -50%
dire bison
anyone got run modifier suggestions?
- run mod that let's us select the ship types we get, only works with duo
- mono. Include reduced reward for this one - perhaps whatever% fewer points or fewer banked stages
- fragile. Include increased reward for this. Reward stacks with extreme
- extreme. Include increase reward for this. Reward stacks with fragile
- player and/or enemy reinforcements. Time based, single instance reinforcement. If combat is still active after xx seconds, 1-3 random ship types arrive to help player and/or enemy
- faster weapon selection. Weapon upgrades happen every 2 stages. -OR- Weapon selection still happens every 3 stages, but allows us to then immediately decide on the type of upgrade. Upgrade Fighter to Missile Launchers -> pick Close or Barrage -> Begin stage 4.
Also, could you change the modifier selection so that once a run modifier is chosen, it cannot be chosen again for x days? Lately, we've had some very long streaks of 'Balance' showing up every day.
light verge
1. run mod that let's us select the ship types we get, only works with duo
2. mo...
mono reduced reward but caps at the same (at stage 20)
light verge
How about enemy monotype?
tired blaze
How about enemy monotype?
I think that's too abusable
tired blaze
anyone got run modifier suggestions?
- Ship type is hidden during mod selection. Ie. you don't know what ship you're picking the upgrade for. (I really love this one)
2a. To the extent it's possible, all upgrades now apply fleet wide. -70% upgrade power.
2b. Predetermined weapon type for entire fleet. Ie. all lasers. Might restrict player freedom a bit too much though. In that case allow weapon upgrade path to be chosen mid run. - Grid upgrade every 2 stages.
- X amount of enemy ships / grid positions with teleport capability each stage. (Viewable from enemy preview would be ideal)
- More additional ships
- Mono additional ships (same one each time)
- Restricted time to decide mod upgrades, like 8-ish seconds.
- All mods now have downsides for other ship(s) than the chosen ship. Ie. you upgrade one but nerf another. Might require new UI.
- Ships now target furthest enemy ship. (More range mods?)
- No small ships. (Could apply to enemy too, but might be boring. Reduced scaling?)
- Improved rerolls. Rerolling now always gives you a rare mod.
tired blaze
On another note, just thought of a new type of unstable mod. The idea is you get a supercharged upgrade, but it decays after 3 stages. A lot of ways to implement it, think it would be cool.
light verge
Ship type is hidden during mod selection. Ie. you don't know what ship you're picking the upgrade for. (I really love this one)
This is just balance but different
2a. is really cool.
2b is just mono but different flavor
- what if not ship upgrade but you upgrade grids instead
grind upgrade power 150%, at the cost of having to maintain 10/15 grids
tired blaze
Idk what you mean
tired blaze
There are rare grid upgrades that give you 2x damage, fire rate, etc. 3 would be you get to pick one of those instead of a normal mod every 2 stages.
light verge
but what if instead of getting grid upgrades, you instead get ALL grid upgrades only, and you can upgrade those slots like ships
tired blaze
If you like even more grid upgrades, all the power to you. Just trying to stay within current scope of UT lol
finite wave
Finally some glory
river flax
Wow today's is HARD
Picked REALLY bad options (so 6) but still 5
😛
Came out 5 min ago
river flax
Should have waited and saved instabilities lol
But it genuinely hardly matters so I digress
woeful zephyr
🤔
ashen nebula
anyone got run modifier suggestions?
Ultra instinct mode, everyone keep teleporting every few seconds.
woeful zephyr
2nd run of the day is hilariously good. died at stage 28, rip
