💣┇weapons-gadgets

[narrow solar]

when thinking about the gun, its technically a rifle. sort of like a honey badger, dunno the exact name but a suppressed rifle. Hipfire should be a lot worse than it is and then decrease longe range, but keep it good mid range

[unkempt moss]

I hate when we start pro posting here. It feels like we've lowered ourself to finals chat.

[analog pewter]

i just find in this game the headshot hitbox feels so outrageously small for how many weapons are absolutely dependent on landing them, how fast players move, and how chaotic gameplay is. I often get bodyshots when I can hardly see anything other than their head, it's obnoxious

[narrow solar]

pro isnt the final say of course, but the arguement ive heard is that oh ARN is just easier, but when the people who dedicate their whole life on the game still choose ARN then its saying something. Pros use the best so the arguement that LH1 is better just doesnt stand. THanks.

[chilly granite]

I just solo stole, then wiped entire enemy team hahah

my arms are like fully vibrating from adrenaline

we in the +rs just from reaching second phase nice

3rd + and I'll get gold at long last

[unkempt moss]

I believe the ARN is better because its more versatile. Not sure if thats better.

[sudden pewter]

I’d agree with this

[narrow solar]

also, light is not in a good position currently, and severely outclassed in the long range, so no i dont understand why a buff is so opposed here. Pros are running HHM over HML because the long range is better and light has been nerfed too much. just my thoughts

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[narrow solar]

your thing also shows ur a heavy main

[analog pewter]

light is definitely the worst class in the game rn lol

[sudden pewter]

Archetype 🤓

[analog pewter]

like undeniably so, teams are already shifting to an HHM meta in some places

honestly i think the only thing keeping light in-meta right now are glitch grenade and H+, since H+ is so good at.... enabling your heavy to take fights. so it's basically a heavy gadget you gotta lug a light around to use

[chilly granite]

ugh we got 4th

+100rs but it feels sad when I played so well

I took some chip damage that I did't heal and it made me oneshotable so i died too fast in a fight we had to win

sad 🙁

we probably would've gotten third anyway except I got out of position trying to help a teammate and then stepped on 4 mines

4 mines on one doorway lmao

[unkempt moss]

What if the pros just dont play it because its the most boring class and they want to have fun?

[chilly granite]

goo is much more consistent at saving me when I've made an awful positioning error than flashes were, so it's the right choice for right now, but really I should fix my positioning and then use flashes for their betteroffensive capabilties

btw @unkempt moss I was also using flashes as a soft sonar since they show the hpbars of enemies affected

[chilly granite]

my teammate light just fell from my gateway so we lost the fight

my medium had no problem with the same gateway

ok idk how I was 3rd seed wth those teammates

vegas sandstorm at lesat my teammates can't fall to death

I'm gonna try this out because I mostly haven't been caught out of positon past few games

ok I do not know enoguh of the map onvegas, I coulnd't find a cashout and died for it lmao

we made it through, but it was closer than itshould've been

also i litearlly never used nullifier

this is th eproblem with nullifier it's so good when its good but tis mostly not that useful

[unkempt moss]

@serene glade you ready?

[narrow solar]

youre funny

[unkempt moss]

no u

[chilly granite]

I did it guys, i broke the gold barrier hahahaa

using nullifier 0 times

to be fair, there was a situation where nullifer would've made the game a lot easier, but my gateway was bad so I couldn't actually do it

nice

I defended with suicide nullifier hahhaha

oh man I thought a guy was a bit suss and then I watched a replay of him shooting at my straight throuhg a solid wall

ohh mna I did the sickest paly

I teamwipde the hhh team who weer 2nd seed and defended cashout

Bodyshot arrow on the bfr player, nullied the minigun stealing, finished off the ks23 heavy with a dank headshot, and then finished the minigun heavy using his own barricade and the cashout to dodge charge n slam

secured a nice 3rd place for my team when we were 7th seed?

nullifier feels great when I can use it, I just wish it was more generically useful

I shoudl probaly use it to fuck with all the invis/smg/db lights

^^^^

amazing, espeically with these teammate who are alot more aware

[sudden pewter]

NGL quite a fan of the 93R eclipse shade, not too keen on the charm bundled with it but hey it’s optional 🤷‍♂️

Really hoping this is the season we see an eclipse shade KS23

[unkempt moss]

Monaco is the worst map in the and its not close

[chilly granite]

nullifier is really great for cqb where the bow is just out dps'd

[sudden pewter]

Many would argue its Kyoto. What about Monaco inspires such hatred?

[serene glade]

https://tenor.com/view/resurrection-resurrect-back-from-the-dead-coffin-gif-17046161

[unkempt moss]

It has the least amount of fun areas to fight in. Its basically just the same building copy pasted 30 times with the cathedral in the middle. The forest is just a shittier version of the bamboo forest in Kyoto which is Kyotos worst part, but on three sides.

[sudden pewter]

Thats it?

[unkempt moss]

Mid match one second

[sudden pewter]

@analog pewter Have you seen this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JyjV_jQTmA
Novel concept but I take massive issues with some proposed changes, interesting regardless

[river shadow]

any change would be great

[analog pewter]

i think reshaper could give you short-proximity x-ray for gadgets and deployables and be able to reshape them in this range. a very short range, like the same range you have to interact with statues. so when you pull reshaper out, you get their outline within this range, and can reshape them through surfaces

my main expectation is that this would make reshaper viable for counter-stalling. if you can reshape a c4 underneath a tipped cashout, you can completely nullify one of the more powerful stalling strategies. It also would let reshaper counter turrets without peeking, assuming they can get behind the wall the turret is posted up on. and it would let them reshape things like mines when they're placed on angles the reshaper user cant otherwise get LOS on easily without triggering them, e.g. on the inside of a window under the windowsill. (though I think in this situation reshaper already has a mild AoE that would take care of it so....?)

[unkempt moss]

• One of the events is just removing one of the unique and fun parts of the map to make a dogshit shooting gallery.
• The buildings effectively being the same means theres no variation in play over an entire map. Outside of the novelty points.
  I've seen people say that it stops poke meta, I just dont agree with that. Its the only map I feel like I cant cross on without some sort of movement heavy loadout. And when you do make it, the buildings are such a cluster fuck and you can endlessly play drop through three to four floors.

[sudden pewter]

I like the idea of turning enemy hazards into friendly hazards, but different gadgets using different charges is really dumb and being able to reshape a dome from outside of it completely fucks EMP in its main use-case

[analog pewter]

honestly for me it's bernal. extremely flat, lacks verticality, and it feels like doors are never where you want them to be. every building kinda looks the same. it's way better on suspended structures tho. i just think bernal is really boring

[chilly granite]

bernal is really, really awful on tdm too, it's like they chose the worst areas on bernal for tdm

monaco is awful for poke meta for sure, people love roofsitting on it

and duck and cover monaco doubly so

[analog pewter]

it feels horribly unbalanced on power shift as well, like i think whichever team defends at the chapel is the one that's at a severe disadvantage

[chilly granite]

100%, my bernal powershift game was a total stomp and i was defending chapel

sample size of 1 because I only played 1 game of powershift for quest ahhaha

[analog pewter]

i just literally cant remember what the last point of the other team looks like but I vividly remember many time the platform going to the chapel so I'm inclined to believe that the chapel team is worse off

[chilly granite]

man I just had two games, -600 each, first had two teammates who were in calibration games and did basically nothing and I was 3rd seed, the second game my teammate left while we defended last cashout and we lost it

[unkempt moss]

I think Bernal has a lot of the same problems. It just feels like the worst part of the a lot of the other maps are in Monaco in some sort of gallery of bad map design.

[chilly granite]

tbh map design is this games biggest flaw for sure

feels like they didn't playtest most of the maps much if at all

tbh, the maps are too big to playtest properly

[analog pewter]

i want point break on fangwai so bad

[chilly granite]

big agree

[analog pewter]

they need to prioritize point break on every map man it's crazy how good that mode is and they only launched it on 3 maps

[swift pivot]

anyone here a flame thrower main that hit a high rank? any tips on flame thrower?

[boreal laurel]

I love Bernal—but only for cashout modes. It’s miserable for Power Shift and Point Break both

[chilly granite]

man hipfire should not be allowed to headshot

every single time I get headshot a bunch in cqb I watch replay and they're waving their mouse around and hitting constant headshots

[sudden pewter]

Same, it's the most visually pleasing map by far (probably due to being the newest) and theres so many cool areas OBJ's could be placed

[analog pewter]

its my favorite map now, i think it and seoul are my top 2

[unkempt moss]

I like Skyway...

[analog pewter]

skyway is great

[chilly granite]

tdm skyway cuts the map so all the fun parts are the parts you cant play

skyway in other modes is way more fun than tdm skyway

[chilly granite]

I love grapple so much I just got a dunk wth less than 1 second left

I did cave on bow though, i'm running v9s right now

[chilly granite]

idk if I should give up bow or grapple

[serene glade]

Bow user giving up bow

[alpine sphinx]

Lol. Lmao even. You do realize light has 3 dashes right?

[unkempt moss]

He's an embark plant trying to gather more light apologist in wepsNgadg. Hes been running a light psyop since he just randomly showed up one day.

[chilly granite]

bro if your teammats cant kill a light in a winch stun duriatoin that's a problem

I do think dash should be nerfed but that's a seperate argument

I'm using dash+bow it feels disgustingly good

dash+bow feels so much better than grapple +v9s

being able to use spec without disturbing your aim is just so powerful

[alpine sphinx]

And need to be nerfed. Dash shouldn't be so spam able, shouldn't be omnidirectional, shouldn't gain height, shouldn't allow you to shoot while dashing

[chilly granite]

if you remove all of those it would do almost nothing

I think the most important one is being able to shoot while dashing, it's evasive dash after all; imho it's inteded as a matrix dodge bullets

the biggest issue of your listed, is spammable. Having a lower cooldown and charges vs grapple is crazy

[alpine sphinx]

Yes but if you only keep one of them, aside from gaining height, it will still remain the only light spec that gets picked

[chilly granite]

keeping current spammability but losing everything else it would not be picked

[alpine sphinx]

I also think that using a dash should reset the cool down, no matter how far it has progressed. Give slow builds a chance to punish careless players that get their dashes baited out of them.

[chilly granite]

I mena, I just thik each charge should have 20s cd/3charge or 15/2 charge

15/2 would have similar uptime to grapple hahaha

omnidirectionality is a problem with stuff like sword and dagger

making it only left/right would help cement its identity as an evasive dash rather than a movement tool

[slow linden]

Winch claw should pull your toward your target and into danger not pull your target to you,this would only work with enemies and teammates and would not be able to be used on terrain like grapple

[chilly granite]

all winch needs is to stun user more than victim

stunnin victim more than user is a crazy, crazy bonus for a tool that is already massive displacement

[slow linden]

Nah,full rework or removal,leaving it in an awkward state is not the answer

[chilly granite]

how is that awkward?

[unkempt moss]

Works as normal when pulling moveable objects such as rubble and vaults/cashbox.

Gotta keep the utility

Drywall already cracked the code on fixing winch. Pack it up, people.

[serene glade]

Stunning user more than victim to let double barrel come out on top for free.

They should just pull the plug

[unkempt moss]

If you land a winch 1v1 you should die. Its that simple.

The winch should do double self damage when you pull them in to hard and bonk your heads together.

[serene glade]

Winch should get a follow up where you can spend meter to pile drive the opponent. The bigger the fish on your hook the longer it takes

[unkempt moss]

And if you dont have a teammate within 5m of you using it, it self detonates killing the heavy. He pulls a V9S out and shoots himself in the head 13 times.

[unkempt moss]

Heavy should get a special critical hit state after emoting.

[serene glade]

Heavy should have a weapon where it's just their bare hands

Grappling and just punching dashing lights in the face

[unkempt moss]

Holding quickmelee should just be able choke the shit out of lights for 30 seconds eventually killing them.

Actually make it do 149 over 149 seconds.

That way its fair.

[serene glade]

They should try adding fun to the game

Or this one weapon my dad let me shoot one time at the range

[near scroll]

or nerf the lame stuff

[chilly granite]

ifyour team can't kill a db light in winchstun duration get more ksilled friends

[ebon juniper]

Do you guys know if they have any plans to add more progression skins to weapons?

I’m trying to grind the V9S

[chilly granite]

new one each season afaik

[ebon juniper]

Oh cool

[frozen vector]

is repeater still good?

[near scroll]

yes

it's still the best pick for medium 🙃

[chilly granite]

man I can't believe they couldn't even remote intot their pc to poke a repeater number

i get they're hungover a month after xmas still, but seriously

[near scroll]

yeah :(

at least we'll surely get something next week

[chilly granite]

man they need to make if that if you die you drop the grenade youre holding in throw

I've been doing bow -> null -> frag in tdm to level up my frag and nullifier hahahaha

but sometimes i get shot before I can drop my frag cuz the null is too long

[near scroll]

goo gun + frag : get them low so frag can kill, get close and throw frag, goolock til frag explosion, profit

[chilly granite]

but goo is so mmuch less stylish than nullilfier

[near scroll]

bruh

you did not just say that to me

[chilly granite]

nullifier is wayy more cool looking than goo gun
and yyou know it

[near scroll]

ig visually it makes pretty particle effects but gameplay wise goo gun is infinitely more skill expressive and cool than hitscan shadow realm

[neon quail]

Goo gun clears nullifier by miles, gameplay wise, but also its better looking. Sure the effects of the nullifier are cooler, but cmon have you looked at the gun itself?

[near scroll]

that is true, the goo gun model is def more creative than null

[frozen vector]

Are you the goo god?

[near scroll]

no. for goo is a divine entity, which i'm a follower of. i would never dare try and lift myself to the holy status of the goo

i am but a humble servant to it's unique requests

[chilly granite]

feel like just looks like a spray washer typea thing? oversized airbrush

i don't think either counts as "creative"

and the nulliifier is def more high tech asethetic, goo gun looks like something heavy madee in his shed

if heavy had evasive dash as a gadget I'd play goo gun

tbh if heavy had a bow I'd probably play heavy

like, not "the bow" but like, a different bow with a similar concept of draw mechanics

also I just bullied a riot shield so hard, I arrowed him, then nullified him and dropped a frag onhim, he didn't even see it coming

to whoever was saying about tdm teammates lmao

I just had a lvl 16 go 11-11 and a lvl 87 go 1-12 hahahah

I had a matter lobby earlier where first round I went 1-4-5

literally every single fight, my kill got stolen and then I was killed by someone else 😢

my score was respectable by round 3 though lol

[glossy marsh]

cheers mate. appreciate it

[unkempt moss]

He just learned how to use to use it. Two days ago he was pissed because he couldn't use it well enough to bring over smokes or something. Just let him have his new toy

[unkempt moss]

There's zero aspects in which nullifier is cooler than GooGun.

[near scroll]

goo gun or goo nade? either way what kind of weirdo brings smokes over goo

[muted condor]

It is cooler than defib tho

[unkempt moss]

A week ago he ran a purely CSGO load out. Frag, Smoke, Flash.

[near scroll]

null? yeah

[unkempt moss]

Nullifier is cool. Its just no googun.

[muted condor]

I did have a team mate running riot shield, smoke, APS, jump pad a few days ago and he was actually cooking some how. The loadout looked fucked be it worked amazing

[unkempt moss]

I think its cool that it looks like heavy made it rather than bought a self defense gadget from target.

[muted condor]

It was as cool to see a completely off meta load out doing well

Helps the dude was the only other person Iv seen that actually knows melee tech

[slow linden]

I agree

[marsh cosmos]

I want a WW2 update with these maps

[unkempt moss]

I always give people like this a chance because it could he they are filling gaps in their game. I had a turret riot with no defib the other day amd we absolutely ripped a lobby up because he was allowed to just play his game.

Half the time if you just join a lobby and pat a random on the ass, the good vibes will make them play better.

[muted condor]

If someone has a weird set of gadgets on a off meta weapon I let them cook

[slow linden]

You're goddamn right I did

[muted condor]

If it’s weird gadgets on a meta weapon or meta gadgets on a off weapon they usually play like shit

[unkempt moss]

I run off meta shit all the time. Part of the fun for me is finding a loadout that can work with something thag doesn't work generally.

[unkempt moss]

You're right. It does seem like off meta gadgets require an off meta weapon

I know it would never happen and its dumb. I would love breach drill on heavy for a bit just to experiment with it.

[muted condor]

I’d love drill breach to be given remote activation and two charges

[unkempt moss]

Remote activation alone would fix a lot of its problems.

[muted condor]

I just think having two would let you set up around a enemy cash out and make it hard for them to guess where you’re coming from

Just just adding remote alone would make me use it

[unkempt moss]

Heavy gets that. Two drills, hammers through a third wall. Make it happen embark

It would allow the flash part to be more effective and reward map knowledge.

[slow linden]

Goo gun flamethrower Pyro nade Pyro mine goo grenade

[unkempt moss]

Close to my King of Hell build.

[slow linden]

That is my main goo flame setup

[placid slate]

If you're gonna make it remotely detonated you might aswell remove it and just give medium breach charges

[muted condor]

You’re right. They should do that because the drill sucks

[unkempt moss]

True. I do love when my beach charge flashes the room for me

[sudden pewter]

I wish more support mediums would flash me 😔
(The catgirl ones especially)

[placid slate]

Don't worry, an actual change to the breach drill will arrive in season 16

Because embark loves waiting a literal year between tiny ass changes

[muted condor]

Right now the drill is shit because it lets the enemy know where you’re gonna be, takes for ever to make a hole, only has one charge, and has zero uses outside of putting a small hole in a wall

[placid slate]

Because its entire purpose is to put a hole in the wall

[unkempt moss]

Still more useful than a light on the team.

[placid slate]

Just make ot better at hole punching

[serene glade]

breach drill lets me run heal beam instead of demat (then i dont use my heal beam because i forget about it)

[placid slate]

Don't need some elaborate gymnastics of changes, just make it do its actual job better

[muted condor]

All other breach gadgets can be used to accomplish more niche actions and have some small amount of tech to them. The drill is 100% locked into just pushing into a enemy cash out and that’s it

[placid slate]

Yea, wo we just make it better at hole punching

Because that's literally its whole purpose

[muted condor]

Make it shoot a grenade instead of a flash and remote detonate

[unkempt moss]

Catter here, brought his no fun homie with him. Pull the plug.

[muted condor]

We should kill him

[placid slate]

As I said prior, might aswell just give med breach charges then

[muted condor]

If it launches a grenade it would actually have more uses and be different

[serene glade]

make it emp through instead of flash

[placid slate]

Grenade wouldn't do shit, it'd just fly to the other end of the room and hit nothing

[unkempt moss]

No. Its only function is punching a hole in the wall dumbass

[muted condor]

Get this fucking Catter wannabe out of here

[serene glade]

sorry massa, ill get back to it

[placid slate]

Glitch would work better honestly

[muted condor]

Zero vision or creativity

[placid slate]

Considering it wouldn't be countered by just turning around

[muted condor]

Bro thinks it would shoot out at the speed of sound instead of getting lobbed

You could place it in places you know enemies will be or will fallow you and use it as a trap

[placid slate]

Realistically when you hear that shot go off your first instinct isn't to be in line of sight of the drill

[serene glade]

hold up, breach a box outside and launch a grenade at mach 12 across the map, let him cook

[unkempt moss]

Make it fire one MGL round. Now we're making some changes.

[muted condor]

Cooking here

[unkempt moss]

Oh shit. It fires a full cylinder of MGL at different angles then breaches.

[muted condor]

Lmao

[serene glade]

does 149 max

[muted condor]

Close enough Welcome back Fuse

[unkempt moss]

For safety.

[muted condor]

Keep the hostages away from medium

[placid slate]

Works better than just fucking 1 grenade and hoping the enemy team has 1 lobotomite that walks into LOS of the hole

[serene glade]

ughhh i hate dying to things even tho the game specifically balances the weapons around only my HP pool ughhhh

[muted condor]

Zero vision

[unkempt moss]

No you dont get to pretend to be a fun chud with us now.

[muted condor]

You could pull big brain plays with it

[placid slate]

You have zero vision if you think 1 grenade will actually hit someone

[muted condor]

I do because I’m not a troglodyte like you

[placid slate]

Moreso the enemy team, but they'd have ears so they'd still dodge it

[unkempt moss]

My enemies have zero vision once I get a second breach charge to flash with tbh

[muted condor]

They try to drag me down because they hate change and visionaries like me

[unkempt moss]

Hold on. Breach drill, fires an MGL cylinder but its loaded with one of each grenade.

[serene glade]

teammates*

[unkempt moss]

Truuuu

[muted condor]

Great minds are always persecuted by the establishment

[placid slate]

Would work if the pyro and gas grenades are on opposite ends of the fan so they don't ignite the gas, would also funnel people

[unkempt moss]

Its random. So it could just fuck your whole plan up.

[placid slate]

So it's a 1 in about 36 ish chance that the gas grenade will actually do something and not ignite immediately

[serene glade]

[unkempt moss]

The no fun schtick is so tired. wepsNgadg is for dumb ideas and brainstorming.

[placid slate]

It would be more fun if rng didn't fuck you out of a grenade

[serene glade]

whens the next grand major, i need to see pro players "experiment" with the arn

[placid slate]

Season 12 or 13 probably

[unkempt moss]

Gives ideas for actual balance uhh just give them a different gadget dummy

Gives fake idea... takes it seriously.

[serene glade]

i hope the game is dead by then

[unkempt moss]

Pull it

[serene glade]

wheres the plug

[placid slate]

It will probably drop off hard if they didn't learn anything from season 8

[serene glade]

its embark, they dont learn

[placid slate]

There's gotta be some examples of them actually learning

[serene glade]

they added a game mode without playtesting and the simplest form of abuse happens, they added a "gravity vortex" without playtesting and its just a gadget that exists. i have faith theyll turn it around at some point

[placid slate]

I mean in season 5 they learned that doing a single mid season patch was bad

[unkempt moss]

Machine learning maybe

[placid slate]

Nvm season 8 happened

[serene glade]

"hey chatgpt, why is the community upset with me? also can you please write me up a paragraph explaining to the community that we are on vacation and dont feel like making balance changes"

[placid slate]

I mean it would be valid, if the cosmetic team was also given a vacation

[serene glade]

theyve been on vacation since season like 7, i think its time we do a little work at the office

[placid slate]

Nah they actually did stuff in season 7, like actual notable balance changes

Actually when did the breach drill come out I lowkey forgot

[serene glade]

7

7 was the healing update, they added universal healing to the game with no changes to any of the weapons breakpoints or anything

[placid slate]

They nerfed sledge before it became meta

[serene glade]

oh yeah thats right, they gutted sledge so healing couldnt be countered by it, smart

[placid slate]

Like sledge was teetering on the edge at the end of season 6, imagine what it could've done being pocketed by a prime h+

[serene glade]

theres no thought behind anything they do and im convinced about it

[placid slate]

It was deadass gonna be hard meta in season 7 if not for the nerf

It was also very funny watching sledge mfs have a breakdown and say they had the worst melee in the game

[serene glade]

because one it would ignore healing while being broken with the healing itself. so instead of looking at huh maybe healing is gonna be strong they just gutted the sledge to be useless at the time, 2 right clicks not even killing a heavy is hilarious, then the healing being so strong 2 right clicks and a left click wouldnt even do it

im glad healing is here to stay along with minimal balance changes to any weapons tho

[placid slate]

Brother its a breakpoint weapon, it ain't ignoring shit

[serene glade]

yeah a 200 burst from right click isnt ignoring healing emitter and heal beam youre right

[placid slate]

Little top up from a h+ or heal beam would make you need 3 over heads to kill a heavy

[serene glade]

yeah i need this game to die stat, @unkempt moss is it march 17th yet?

[unkempt moss]

Not soon enough

We have a lot of stuff to play if you want to just drop it until we need to finish the circuits

Enshrouded calls us

[serene glade]

looking that way tbh, we are in the no fun allowed ranks rn anyway

[unkempt moss]

The water calls us

[pulsar hearth]

anyone know anything about the thermal rework and when we can expect to see it back?

[serene glade]

my dad whos employed (by embark) says next weeks massive mid season patch notes will include thermal rework information

stay strong brother

[unkempt moss]

Emerson Bark?

[narrow solar]

lmao

[pulsar hearth]

you and your dad are awesome thanks man

[humble sparrow]

Why didnt they make the Eclipse Shade weapon skins be Alfa Acta themed? The couldve made the brand THE tactical brand but instead it fell off the face of the planet and replaced it with ER8

[muted condor]

Eclipse Shade was around before Alfa Acta was added

[sudden pewter]

Eclipse Shade existed long before S6

Eclipse Shade is backed by IVADA, visible with the branding on the S4 Pike Eclipse Shade skin

[muted condor]

You turned Sea Urchin into a fun hater

[sudden pewter]

The green consumes all eventually.

[muted condor]

He refuses all breaching drill ideas

[sudden pewter]

And I don’t hate fun I just don’t entertain proposals that don’t mesh with the game 😔

Breach Drill needs work

[compact tundra]

I honestly think making breach drill remote activated and insta flash would be good. And maybe a second charge

[sudden pewter]

Boobjob, maybe a tummy tuck

Remote Activation could be cool, but currently it doesn’t have any idle audio so that would need to be a thing

[muted condor]

I said at least needs a remote activation. What id really like is if it shot a frag instead and was remote activated

[compact tundra]

The frag idea is cool but honestly I find the idea of being able to set up flash traps with it really cool.
Like you set it under the floor in the middle of the room and when they enter it insta flashes them, that'd be cool.

And it make it a separate stall tool

Breach charge is the best for straight stalling since it can drop the box 3 fucking floors in one hit

Drill would be the best for traps with insta flashes but worse at stall cause of the slow and loud drill sound

C4 is the best for damage with good stall potential especially if you can charge a second one

Vortex exist I guess, would be cool to run double stall but it's kinda buns.
If I changed it I'd probably make it no longer pull players, pull objects much harder, and not shake. So you could combo it with breach to vortex it to a ceiling and then drop the floor under it stalling, would also give grapple and anti-grav a cool interaction since grapple can stay stuck to the roof to steal and anti-grav can let you float up there. Also any canisters on the box would get pulled in as well probably causing them to leak but not go off immediately

[humble sparrow]

Oh, i didnt know that!

[sudden pewter]

Fake Fan smh 🤦‍♂️

[muted condor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/790086029724876810/1462963914781364399/low-tier-arachne.gif

[sudden pewter]

Junior would NOT approve

[humble sparrow]

I started this month. Is there any unbranded alfa acta stuff im not aware of like ivada has?

[compact tundra]

The minigun in its entirety

[sudden pewter]

No, AA is the newest sponsor (trentilla existed before its official sponsor status)

[humble sparrow]

Gotcha tyvm!

[sudden pewter]

On my knees begging for more AlfaActa cosmetics every day

[unborn turtle]

This is my monthly rant to the void that is the finals discord, the only reason I joined. Fighting Three mediums who all have defibs is the worst experience in the game. Fix defibs, it has a 100% pick rate. It's broken and not fun. Don't tell me it's a skill issue like last time. 3 defibs on a team is the lamest thing in the game. Don't tell me its a casual gamer's problem because it's not meta in ranked. I don't care. It's still lame. Thank you. See you next month.

[analog pewter]

they seriously need to make the hipfire on deagles less shit omfg

[muted condor]

Yo a fellow defib hater 🤝

[analog pewter]

why is it so hard to intentionally hit people with carriables like omfg

they need a whole air strip of clearance to not just clank off some random debris or a wall in the same zip code

[sudden pewter]

???

I finished that shit in a single match

Just play Heavy (better throw strength) it’s fairly easy

[analog pewter]

just feels like every time i throw anything it gets caught by a mote of dust in the air

[sudden pewter]

Sorry to hear that

[analog pewter]

i got it done in like 3 matches tho just annoying

i also periodically see shit i throw go right through people so like

chat which 1 should i get next

[compact tundra]

Season 5 for the drip
Season 3 for the funny

[analog pewter]

im thinkin season 3 just because the stuff i actually want from that is very front-loaded, while 4 and 5 stuff I'd like is toward the latter pages

[compact tundra]

I'll gladly grant you your wish, but it'll cost you a 6m min range nerf . But don't worry the titan will be nerfed as well to even then out.

[sudden pewter]

S4 best drip

[indigo nexus]

S3 best drip

[sudden pewter]

I will fight you

S5 has like 3 decent things, one of the weakest seasons imo

[compact tundra]

To be fair I judge season 5 as a whole. The bandito set as well

[compact tundra]

Woah woah I just saw this, season 4? Season 6? Season 8? All three of which are basically just entertainment themed, which they already used and peaked with in season 1. The fully themed season is no where as bad as those 3 basically theme-less seasons

[swift pivot]

anyone know how to do that tech where u throw a anti grav cube and then slam into it then immidietly bounce up?

[compact tundra]

Not a clue about the bounce up, probably a jump pad or some weird goo/canister tech if I had to guess

@indigo nexus
I need you and your area of expertise. I'm updating my weapons balance sheet with the new information on how weapons are balanced with what I've learned about how the weapons work I this game, The problem is I still have no clue how falloff works, and how accurate the wiki is. Like is max range the Mac falloff range and it does minimum damage after that, or is max range the maximum range it can do damage at?

[indigo nexus]

It linearly interpolates from base damage -> base damage * range damage multiplier over the distance between minimum range and maximum range.

The wiki I think should be almost fully accurate on falloff

[compact tundra]

Is there a range where weapons stop dealing damage? Like at 50 meters is it impossible to shoot someone with the M11?

[indigo nexus]

However in my tests I found the P90's falloff to go from 12.5 to 22.5 rather than 10 to 20 as the wiki lists. May want to test yourself

[indigo nexus]

No.

[compact tundra]

Big knowledge

[compact tundra]

Ok so this has me question is there a flat multiplier at the min falloff. So like at 10 meters does it immediately do a negative amount of damage. Or Does it start at its main bad damage and over the falloff period gradually hit the full falloff multiplier?

[indigo nexus]

I am not sure what you mean. My previous message precisely defined how this works.

[analog pewter]

sure, can you also reduce the base bloom while ads while you're at it

[compact tundra]

There's bloom on the ads? God no, that shits gone. Aiming shouldn't have gambling

[compact tundra]

Sorry I don't realize you meant, range, I was talking damage

You're all good, that cleared it up

[analog pewter]

Have you used the weapon? It's designed around bloom

[compact tundra]

No I haven't really. I played them some when they came out but once I realized they didn't have a unique akimbo mechanic I lost interest and whenever going back to them they never clicked for me

[slender bear]

2.8 years since light got a new spec lol

6 months since they got anything

[unkempt moss]

How about this, take 12m and make the hipfire best in class

[compact tundra]

Na, that's the KS-23's job

[chilly granite]

to be fair smokes were so nerfed in 8.3? that they weren't usable, I used them in like, season 5? last time I played, it was a long time ago

then I ran pyro smoke thermal vision ahahahah

i trued using smokes when I came back late season7 a little bit playing) and then a lot of playing in mid season 8, after they got nerfed, and they felt terrible so I stopped running them

I was using flash frag and (sonar|h+|vortex|gateway|theremalbore) a couple weeks ago, I was really not sure what the third slot was, and I could'nt really make anything work. In my experientation I did try smokes, wihch I talked about, but only for like 2 games, because smoke is truely garbage right now

[chilly granite]

hahaha good take

[chilly granite]

I think it's kinda the inverse; meta weapons can take the meta gadgets, but off meta weapons require off meta gadgets to support them

like, I'd like to run h+ gateway and (grav vortex|breach|therema bore) but I really just can't make it work with the bow. The bow dps is really kinda awful, so in teamfights and for finishing blows, you kinda reallyreally want a frag, and you NEED nullifier if you're ever going to be in a solo defense position

if I had faith my team would always be alive later than me to clutch out the cashbox def, I'd skip null, but in my games my teammates usually see red as soon as someone baits the cashbox, so they die much too early in the defense, so I then have to defend box

if you're running riot shield, then you're super duper vulnerable to basically everything that aps counters, for example, so aps has amazing synergy. Flashbangs have great value really, but the risk of self flash mitigates the value, but riot shield blocks the self flash, increasing their value by alot

[chilly granite]

breach either needs remote activation or much, much faster activation tbh

it's in an awkward spot where it taeks too long so it's easy for enemies to react to it, and hard for you to run awayy before it breaks wall, so oyu mostly die for using it lol

if it was faster or had remote activation, it would be much more powerful

but remote activation flashbang is probably too powerful for agression, since you can force enemies to look away exactly when you want

[compact tundra]

Bro is catching up on a day of being off the discord

[chilly granite]

vortex should have more use than just as cashout stall, and improving its drop -> activ time would help with that so you can use it as kite tool

giving it a bigger drag radius would also help a lot

and the drag needs to have a little more power, cuz right now it's way too easy for even heavy to walk out of it

alternatively making it an impact grenade would be amazing

for improving it's cashout stall, it should have more early vortexing/spin

literally, i slept for a fkn week lol

[compact tundra]

I want it to be a trapping tool honestly. Like the flash is activated instantly for the trap and then it blows up a radius

[unkempt moss]

Not until people let it operate like a shotgun. Right now people treat it like a dogshit rifle so it'll never be great.

[chilly granite]

the vortex is currently ok as a trapping tool, but it does need a stronger pull so it's harder for enmies to escape it

[compact tundra]

Don't worry big dog, I'ma make it its own unique shotgun. I solidly view it as a shotgun and don't like the whole it's basically a rifle idea

[unkempt moss]

Good. That is the correct take on KS. You may continue.

[compact tundra]

Oh shit you meant vortex, I was talking drill

[chilly granite]

right now even heavy can walk out in like 1s?

there's a few weapons that get runied by vortex, but a lot of weapons have good air accuracy, so it's not even that advantageous to peek someone in a vortex

I've lost gunfights expecting that the air accuracy would reduce their dps enoguh that I can facetank them and lost lol, it's my fault for ever expecting to be able to facetank, but still

gravity vortex pull radius also needs softer falloff

like, my tiny lil frag grenade won't get pulled if it's one millimieter outside of radius but huge cashbox will get pulled at the edge

and that nerfs a lot of interesting combos

[compact tundra]

Tho to be fair I wouldn't redesign the weapon or anything. Just shorten its range, buff it to 110, make the hipfire and ads perfect, and let the QM combos roll. Probably a range of 15m-25m with the falloff hitting bullet break point changes at 20m and maybe again at 25m

I need to dive deeper into it to tell if I want the full fall off to be 74dmg or 75dmg

[chilly granite]

if u give ks23 qm combos it should be projectile at all ranges again tbh

I think oyu need falloff to be 74 to avoid people still using it as a sniper, but I don't really hate 75 on the ks23

[compact tundra]

I wouldn't mind but I also think with the range nerf that'd be inconsequential. But I might use the hit scan range as an excuse to keep the 25m falloff at 75 and make it turn into a projectile at 30m maybe(?) idk yet I'm still on the titan

[chilly granite]

I mean, I think projectile cutoff for a shotgun sohuld be way sohrter than 30m

[compact tundra]

Maybe right at the 25m?

Anything before that I wouldn't want unless it's fully projectile again

[chilly granite]

I mean, the bow is already inconsitent at 25m

I feel like the bow is meant to be more of a sniper than ks23

[compact tundra]

Always gotta remember monsters exist. I've had a dude consistently snipe every shot with bow at 40m+

[chilly granite]

I was fighting a bfr heavy in ranked and I hit 5 headshots on him back to back

it was abuot 45m

but my point is not that it's impossible, but rather that letting it be hitscan at a given range means that range will be easily snipeable

[compact tundra]

Sorry I'd also remove bloom from the ks-23 hipfire and ads

[chilly granite]

if you remove bloom, (which I think is a good take, I hate bloom on ks23 and deaegs)

it has to be a projectile beyond like 10m

or it will be way to consistent sniping at 30m

it's only a projectile from that distance forward, keep in mind, so for sr84 for example, hitting shots from 40-50 is super easy still because it's only travel time of projectile over 10m

[compact tundra]

You know what, I'm ok with that.
Projectile at 10m
Falloff starts at 15m
Major Break point change at 20m
Falloff ends at 25m and the other major break point change

[chilly granite]

I'm not sure about not giving it projecitle at 0m, with qm combos, i'd prefer 5m, so that there's a little more room to punish, cuz if i'ts like a supersonic bullet (300m/s or so) it's still basically impossible tomiss at 10m

6 meters in 20ms

[compact tundra]

Eh I think keeping hit scan till 10m is just a good quality of life feature for making those shots just a little more consistent

Basically helps with lights dash at that range

[chilly granite]

depends on how good their projectile hitreg code is, but yeha, i do get that

I haven't actually done the calcs on a dash light's movement speed but i@m pretty sure it's not enought to dodge a 20ms proejctile

[compact tundra]

Probably not but that's assuming center mass. It'd help edge shots and flicks a bit, especially on controller

As a flick aimer on controller it'd probably just be good quality of life for me

[chilly granite]

100% it would, but I also kinda feel like those shots should miss if you get the reward of a qickmlee comob

u get what I mean?

I will say I don't have a huge amount of faith in embark's projectile hitreg, thewinch calw is hilariously bad

but I thnk the winch claw also has a bunch of special case code

[compact tundra]

Well thing is at the 5m mark even edge shots with the projectile would always hit, it's really that ~5m-10m range that this little buff helps. And the QMs are limited to a 3m-5m range if I'm correct so at 6m+ that qm combo losses consistency

[chilly granite]

5m hitscan I think is maybe a reasonable compromise, but I'm not too picky tbh

it depends a LOT on how fast the projectile is

[compact tundra]

Honestly I'd prefer the 10m just for the sake of that little boost and consistency with how the weapon would feel. But I get both sides. Honestly I could take it either way too honestly, I think for me it'd depend on which one felt weirder to use or more confusing in the moment on where it's hit scan or projectile

[chilly granite]

I think it would probably be ok if embark did 10m to start and nerf it down if it's too effective combo

assuming that the nerfs were PROMPT and IMPACTFUL

you don't need 8 months of fucking data embark, even iwth 20k players, you must have a gigantic sample size in 2 days

[compact tundra]

I'd be fine with that. Hell if it feels weird and players are having trouble telling when it's hit can or projectile I'd be ok with it being full projectile since really it's a minor change

[chilly granite]

but man giving the ks23 hitscan to 25 is why people use it like a rifle

that buff is an L take eembark

"lets remove what makes this waepon interesting and unique"

[chilly granite]

but yeah on the breach drill, if you give it remote control flash it's way too powerful as an offensive tool, even without instant flash

you can put a breach drill on a wall by a door, pop the drill and walk through the door into a room ful of enemies looking away or flashed

the problem with it right now is that it takes a lot of coordination and being 1man down to do that right now beecuase the medium has to be standing by the drill

btw is there anything u guys want measured rn?

[compact tundra]

I could get that, but also what would that do that a normal flash really couldn't. I guess normal flash gives a split second warning but not really by enough to make this take its spot

[chilly granite]

flashes have a lot of problems

the fuze time is basically too long to make them pop up high in cqb which makes them verey inconsistent in messy rooms with props and barricades and cashboxes

a ceiling mounted flashbang/wall mounted flashbang alone is a huge advantage over a normal flash

there's a reason we put our lightbulbs on walls/ceilings

a coordinated push with a breach drill on one wall and the heavy/light on the other wall with c4, would already be super powerful, but the timing is a bitch

also requires you 1) know where the enemy is and 2) can arrange your people in such a way to attack them

[analog pewter]

give heavy a banana peel you can slip on

[chilly granite]

the biggest reason why breach charge is less good than flashes is ismply because it's a more situational flashbang, you can't use it in open areas at all

you need a thin enough opbject, close enough to the enemies, to put the charge on

where a flash yu can just throw it

in point break where you can kinda create these situations by pure numbers of teammates pushing at the same time, breach drill feels way better

it'd be nice if the flashbang was bouncier tbh, so you could hit more consistent pop flashes in cqb

[compact tundra]

Honestly I think this makes them a good counter balance. Drill is more consistent and has maybe has 1 less charge, but requires being indoors to be effective. while flash gets 2 and can be used anywhere

Also in point break building can tend to disappear and the drill literally destroys its own placement areas so I think at the beginning of an area drill is better but by the end flash is better cause things have been opened up and many walls and floors are gone

[chilly granite]

yeah for sure

I think the biggest thing drill needs is a faster time to breach, cuz it feels like forever before the actual wall opens

feel like the falsh goes off and then it's like a full second till the walls gone??

can't remeber it's been a couple weeks since I played it and obs crashed my game so I can't test rn

[compact tundra]

I think with the insta flash that'd feel better tho. Cause you get an immediate flash effect and then a delayed breach effect

And with it being remotely activated clutching saves with it is easier

[chilly granite]

let me remind myself what it does

[compact tundra]

Bow user confirmed embark employee 🫵

He said he was gonna go test it, caught in the act

[chilly granite]

test it means I'm gonna whip out teh obs and measure frame times

I'm not sweating the breach drill that much unless someone pays me

so it's whir->flash->breach

I'd prefer flash->whir->breach with a shorter delay between start and breach

even with current order, just being faster would help it a lot cuz it's really easy to just look away when u hear whir and then look back when you hear flash

alternatively being whir->breach+flash on the same frame kinda thing

so that you're opening the wall the same frame that they get flashed, so there's at least some advantage for the driller

like, you're giving up the element of surprise, so there should be some advantage somewhere

its liek half a second between flash and breach right now, which is fucking forever on a partial flash hit

[compact tundra]

That's basically what I was asking for, but with remote activation. So press the button, it flashed, whirs, and then breaches

[chilly granite]

if I look away 2m away from the wall, still closeas hell to the breach drill, the flash effect is barely there and it's gone by thee time drill pops

remote activate wall monunted flash, even without breach, would be crazy strong

let alone instant

if you want it to be remote activated, there needs to be a warning sign

[compact tundra]

I think it'd be fine, it eats its own placement areas and is still just a flash effect but with one less charge and the stipulation that it requires being Indoors

[compact tundra]

Big green bro

[restive plover]

gren

[chilly granite]

hehehehe

I think its more intesting activating where you stand

[compact tundra]

The fuck, a dude just popped outta the wood works to congrats you, I'm befuddled and scared

[restive plover]

I'm evil

[compact tundra]

I think it limits it way more than it needs to be limited. Even with remote activation it's not going to be meta or anything

[chilly granite]

I mean, the theory crafting you can do with a remote activate wallmount flash is insane

it might not be too bad depending on the HP of the breach drill and if it's shootable at point of mounting

[restive plover]

give breach drill 100 damage on the opposite side

[unkempt moss]

Shouldn't the breach happen almost simultaneously?

[compact tundra]

Yea but it's all theory crafting, which is what I want this gadget to kinda do, allow the trapping playstyle to get a new toy on the class that kinda does trapping well

[chilly granite]

there's absolutely a delay between flash and breach

[compact tundra]

I kinda like that they're a bit separate especially if given remote activation. Gives you a second to use the flash

[chilly granite]

I think two things alone would already make it good enoough to be usable, which is a shorter delay between flash and breach and improving the lookaway flash radius indoors

[unkempt moss]

I think it allows you to play for fakes a bit better if they are close to each other

[chilly granite]

you're barely flashed even if you're only 1m away from it looking away, if you're looking away on the other side of the roomm, you're not flashed at all

alright i'm gonna measure the gap between flash and pop but Im not gonna do it precisely

[compact tundra]

Fair, I just want it to be remote activated so it's a really unique stall tool that has a distinct use from breach and C4

[unkempt moss]

I haven't been reading. Are we still on the two charges thing?

[compact tundra]

Na, remote activation, insta flash, and then maybe a delay for the breaching part

I want the remote activation and the flash to happen before the drill noise starts so it's a surprise

[chilly granite]

19->43 frames between flash and breach

470ms as measured, but likely 450ms in realityy

[jaunty warren]

Instead of flashing, breach drill throws 4 grenades into the hole it just made :)

[chilly granite]

I measuerd at 50fps so I don't have to press next frame so many times hahahahah

450ms is sooo long between flash and wall pop

[restive plover]

fuze is that you

[jaunty warren]

Add new mode where attackers have to save Scotty

😋

[unkempt moss]

I guess the change would have to be made with one or the other in mind.

[sudden pewter]

Archetype 🤓

[unkempt moss]

Technically Embark wants them to be called Builds

[sudden pewter]

We 👏 Don’t 👏 Got 👏 No 👏 Classes

[unkempt moss]

Both Archetypes and Classes are against the rules provided in the press kit.

[stoic garden]

i was homeschooled in the fjords, we had classes there

[unkempt moss]

I'm very serious about this as my GOUF design document follows the rules of the press kit to the tee

[sudden pewter]

Is this up to date? Embark has referred to the three as archetypes for a while now

[serene glade]

embark never goes back on their word so it is law

[sudden pewter]

True

[unkempt moss]

I pulled it from the website to take that screen shot on my phone. So unless its out of date on the website, which is possible with embark, it should be as current as possible. There are files for the current season in there, so they do touch it regularly.

Embark isnt the leader in consistent design. So it doesn't surprise me.

[sudden pewter]

Embark when the mission is anything other than not balancing melee weapons

[analog pewter]

they should add a goo mine and im not kidding

[unkempt moss]

What about a flame fountain deployable

Like C4

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-punch-cat-punch-funny-meme-gif-26760863

[analog pewter]

how can you possibly be against this idea

[sudden pewter]

Dumb and smelly.

[analog pewter]

you're dumb and smelly

[sudden pewter]

Goo breaks when a contestant is inside it, it’s a “hold for one second” mine. Given how powerful stuns are I don’t believe adding more things that inhibit mobility is a good idea

[analog pewter]

post a good opinion for once

[sudden pewter]

Once Winch is properly balanced Goo Gun will be next on the chopping block mark my words

[analog pewter]

im pretty sure mines have a brief trigger delay

[sudden pewter]

An arm time, yes

One bypassed when directly destroyed (flamethrower does this super easy)

I’d be willing to entertain the idea if you could give me a scenario where a Goo Mine would be neat or provide utility in a niche where there currently isn’t any

[analog pewter]

no as in when you step on them they detonate a brief moment later

[sudden pewter]

There’s an activation audio cue yes, because without something to signal it activated players would assume they randomly combusted. But a delay? I wanna say there is but at the same time I don’t think it’s large enough to “dodge” any effect

The wiki makes no mention of any activation delay, but the wiki is fallible

[analog pewter]

i mean you hear the activation beep like 0.3 seconds before it explodes
the point wouldnt be to trap people,. it would be to raise a wall behind them as they step over it

[sudden pewter]

OH

Say less queen, that’s badass. Lead with that next time

100% agree
Embark make it happen

[analog pewter]

imagine the turret plays....

[sudden pewter]

When I heard goo mine I contextualized it as “Goo Blob Mine” and it made 0 sense so I shut it down

[analog pewter]

that would be hilariously bad

[sudden pewter]

But a goo trapdoor mine? That’s sick

[sudden pewter]

Dumbasses have historically asked for such. I assumed you took a drink from the koolaid and despaired

Now, how does the Goo Mine differentiate from a properly thrown Goo Grenade? Obviously it’s autonomous and doesn’t require LoS. But I imagine it wouldn’t be as effective as a goo grenade

On that note, remove a charge from goo grenades. So fucking annoying there’s two charges because if they beef or throw improperly, they’ve got another

[analog pewter]

I think just the fact that you can have an autonomous goo wall trap is enough, being able to ensure that someone entering a room ends up either blowing up a wall blocking the door (if they see the mine and destroy it) or steps on it and prevents themself from escaping means you could basically force a door to be unusable one way or another, forcing a re-route or a commit

[sudden pewter]

So hear me out. Smaller goo wall. That way it isn’t as reliable as a standard goo grenade

[analog pewter]

3 wide would be fine

[sudden pewter]

Big enough to block doorways of course, but not a WALL of goo

[analog pewter]

that fills most doors and windows in the game

[sudden pewter]

Lights will hate it but that’s to be expected

God forbid there’s a counter to their insane mobility and they’re forced to either slow down or be more aware

[analog pewter]

unironically i think it should go to medium and light
i think heavy might benefit too much having an autonomous means to force close-range fights
so if lights hate it they can only blame themselves

[sudden pewter]

Medium would be an excellent choice, but why Light?

[analog pewter]

i like the idea of light players kiting into a goo mine and then taking the fight with a player they might have split off from their team and prevented an escape from

i think light could play more strategically around it while heavy would mostly use it to bolster their already very strong defensive gameplan

[sudden pewter]

I don’t immediately hate the idea, but Light is already the most capable of disengaging from a fight

If Light has it, I see more “sit in a corner with a double barrel” plays than I do strategic ones

[analog pewter]

yea but in this case they wouldnt be using it to disengage, because it would detonate behind whoever is chasing them; they're still being chased, but they get the upper hand by closing an escape route and potentially splitting their foe from their team

[analog pewter]

that's true but ngl i find that fun

[sudden pewter]

That’s fair, my point still stands though

[sudden pewter]

FILTHY HOBBITSES
BAD PRECIOUS

[analog pewter]

i think it would be very funny for a db light to trap card someone with a goo wall and prevent them escaping their two barrels of pure toxicity

[sudden pewter]

I despise how easily subpar players can guarantee a Heavy trade with the SH due to the size of the Heavy. But its increased usage in the short term would likely lead embark to kneejerk nerf it which would be better long term. You may proceed

[analog pewter]

i think the db is just a problem that has to be addressed on its own, we cant be letting it ruin the potential fun of goo mine on light

[sudden pewter]

What do you mean OHK mechanics aren’t fun to fight 😠

I would like to see Lights scouting capabilities enhanced, rather than give Light a deployable that can increase its lethality Id rather give them information utility

A tripwire that marks enemies akin to a tracking dart could be interesting? But it would also need to be shorter not to step on TD

[analog pewter]

my big problem with the DB even on medium and heavy is that if they get into their effective range you don't really have any recourse to prevent them killing you other than hoping they miss. they're going to out-TTK everything you have. but even if they do whiff the second shot, it feels like there's way too much pressure to kill them during the reload while it's far too easy for them to escape while reloading. so the only way to play against them is to always shoot first and tank the first shot, or try to force long ranged fights which is often unviable

[sudden pewter]

Idk if they beef the second shot generally I can secure the kill, the problem is if they beef they have access to two goo grenades to either disengage or stall for reload

[analog pewter]

even the sword, while annoying to fight sometimes, is basically a DoT you have a chance to kill before it kills you. like sure they'd have to be brainless to miss so they have effectively guaranteed damage, but the TTK is not necessarily faster than what you have access to, so it's tolerable. also the DB has some range behind it like fuckin hell

[analog pewter]

if they beef the second shot it's entirely contextual, like a good DB light is basically already heading to the nearest door or window the moment they fire shot 2 and if it's close enough there's no point chasing them
and it's always fucking annoying

[sudden pewter]

That’s fair

A “good light” isn’t going to stick around and let you punish a missed shot

[analog pewter]

if i have my team with me at least they usually clean up, but that's the thing yk its a trade weapon

[unkempt moss]

I hate that this is right

[unkempt moss]

Needs to go to heavy and medium.

[sudden pewter]

I’m always right 💅

[unkempt moss]

I might actually stop playing if they ruin GooGun even more

[analog pewter]

goo gun should not be nerfed i will shit my pants and cry

[sudden pewter]

It’s going to be, stuns aren’t fun and once Lights stop whinging about Winch they’ll move onto the next worst thing, Goo Gun.

[chilly granite]

I just did a painful amount of testing to confirm that the distance measurment in game is rounded

oh no

i might be wrong becasue models have thickness

ugh idk

I don't care I'm assuming it's rounding

yeah I'm 99% sure it's rounding

[unkempt moss]

Welp it is the fastest way to end my career. So embark will definitely do it.

[chilly granite]

tbh i'd be surprsied if they nerf googun as opposed to goo

goo grenade is problematic right now

[unkempt moss]

Yeah because its on light.

[sudden pewter]

Just remember this is a COMPETITIVE game, there was a $250,000 Grand Major event and they're going to balance the game with ESPORTS in mind as it's vital to the games future. That means lowering the amount of chaos because competitive is all about streamlining quick engagements so the sheeple don't turn away in horror at seeing a Dual Blade medium.

[unkempt moss]

Esports vs the Fun Chuds... who will win

[chilly granite]

this should be the speed curve of the bow

I tested way too much I never wanna look at a frame counter again

this shit is a real nightmare to test too

[chilly granite]

wait nah I think it's just -1m/s/m

230m/s and it loses 1m/s per meter? maybe

[serene glade]

If I'm intoxicated and can't find anything fun to run in the game does that just mean the games cooked?

[tame aspen]

Run dagger and become the melee rat

[serene glade]

[chilly granite]

I really need to do a proper test run with 5x samples at 15 different ranges that I've chose to work well with my framreate and my current speed estimates

is there anyone here who can help me with testing who has a stonky comupter that can get 300+ fps in practice range?

[stoic garden]

fack yo

the cooldown nerf was enough

[chilly granite]

good take

goo canisters are common enough that only having 1 charge on goo wouldn't even be that bad, you can still build a goo castle pretty easy

A lot of gadgets are very forgiving of even serious mistakes, espeially because unless you get third partied, you'll generally have them avaialable for next fight

[compact tundra]

If I can't think of a fun run I either experiment with something I haven't played much or pick a game mode and then build a loadout for that gamemode

So like of powershift then either poke, CL-40, or platform heavy

[unkempt moss]

Play a better game tbh

[karmic badger]

dont encourage that

[unkempt moss]

Cloak Dagger is based and skillful

Dash dagger is unskilled and exploitative

[placid slate]

Cloak dagger is for masochists who use shit that directly contradicts eachother

[unkempt moss]

Oh great, no fun police are here again.

He'll be shilling esports bundles next. Yeeeeuchhhk

[placid slate]

I don't care about the bundles btw since you seem obsessed with my opinion for some reason

[unkempt moss]

I'm so obsessed.

Literally rent free in my head.

[serene glade]

I wish my rent was free

[unkempt moss]

This guy doesnt miss

[serene glade]

Cl40 and dagger are the intoxicated weapons of choice from what I learned. I'll have to run it back in the future on ranked

[unkempt moss]

Dust off the spear.

[frigid dagger]

if u assume i am the average light player, should i take LH1 or ARN220

[unkempt moss]

ARN. Way more consistent, less punishing, more versatile.

[sudden pewter]

ARN absolutely, LH1 is great, but unless your positioning is on-point you’ll struggle to get maximum value out of it

[frigid dagger]

so if i was more skills LH1 would be better?

or is ARN still more consistent at higher levels?

[serene glade]

There's more situations where Arn is better than lh1 still

[sudden pewter]

ARN is relatively reliable at all ranges and isn’t entirely reliant on headshots

[unkempt moss]

ARN still rips as you get better. LH1 is kind of a playstyle specific gun. Where as with the ARN you can literally just do whatever you want

[sudden pewter]

LH1 is definitely at its best mid/long range and relies on headshots to to hit ideal breakpoints and TTK

[frigid dagger]

fair, my experience also reflects this, just wanted some community input, ty and ill test this tmr

[unkempt moss]

Sounds good, fella. We'll see you tomorrow. 😘

[serene glade]

Relax

[indigo nexus]

Probably yeah, since if you could aim super well its ttk is great with headshots

[analog pewter]

when are we getting animations for the double barrel and KS-23 that holds them in the center like quake/doom

oooh minigun too

i guess it'd kinda have to be a skin though unless they could make a mythic/legendary animation that replaces all anims at once

[compact tundra]

We could have it come with an animation pack, but also I wouldn't mind the defaults staying on cause you'd basically be reloading with the force

[past parcel]

Nerf bow again please

[sudden pewter]

But they just buffed it 🙁

[analog pewter]

buff everything i use and nerf everything i dont

[stoic garden]

yea buff lewis kill shak50

[analog pewter]

@scrubquotesx

[indigo nexus]

buff everything I don't use and nerf everything I do. I wanna see some variety!

[placid slate]

Buff things that haven't gotten a single balance change in over a year

Which is namely spear and mgl

[unkempt moss]

Buff everything I dont use and nerf everything I do. Tired of these lights having an excuse.

[placid slate]

Buff my mechanics

There is no nerf I want to be better at the game for free

[sudden pewter]

Unrelated but here’s a Beaver

[unkempt moss]

Going to be okay, right?

[analog pewter]

i am 6 matches deep in point break right now, every single match I have been on offense

they NEED to do something about how fucking defense favored this mode is, SOMETHING

at the very least defense should not have their spawn protection line practically hugging the last objectives, that is fucking ridiculous

are you fucking kidding me i get put on defense and now im matched against a NTMR player

how many matches do i have to get fucking annihilated in before they tank my MMR and I can enjoy the game again?

[unkempt moss]

What's that matchmaking called? Enjoyment Optimized MM?

[analog pewter]

engagement-optimized

[compact tundra]

Na that sounds like apexs matchmaking, they call it engagement based match making

[analog pewter]

the idea is that games use matchmaking where skill as a metric isnt used to make balanced matches but feed you a stream of matches whose balance is manufactured to keep you playing as long as possible, using the same psychological tricks social media apps to keep users engaged, even if they're not "satisfied". the theory is that if you give players frustrating matches and drip-feed them well-balanced fun ones (or ones where they satisfyingly stomp) they'll play longer than if you give them exclusively matches that feel balanced and fair and have even MMR between teams

because corporations are cynically profit-driven to the point of absurdity I can only assume that game developers - especially ones published by companies like nexon who are FAMOUS for their dark patterns - use matchmaking systems that optimize engagement rather than competition

[compact tundra]

I don't think the publisher has enough sway in most games to influence the match making, unless they funded the game

[analog pewter]

isnt that literally what publishers do

like im pretty sure nexon being the publisher means they funded the game
at least in part

[compact tundra]

Depends on the studio and the game.

They either fund the developers for the game and have greater say in everything

Or they just distribute it to platforms and physical copies. In this case probably helped with getting it on consoles if they weren't the ones who funded it

But also being funded doesn't always mean that have say in the game. Depends contract to contract

[analog pewter]

@sudden pewter i think you would enjoy this post

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/563351597317488661/1274466083813982318/catexplodion.gif

[analog pewter]

"lights take too much damage to kill" they die to an errant sneeze 😭
"heavy needs more health" oh my GAWD bro

[sudden pewter]

Heavy does NOT need more health.
What we need is bare feet and a black cat tail

[analog pewter]

im with you on the cat tail but I have to report you to the authorities for the feet comment

[sudden pewter]

I can tell it’s bait because:
1.) New user (not even orange)
2.) Refers to them as classes 🤢

[sudden pewter]

Lights quake when they hear my bare piggies plip plopping on the floor towards them

[analog pewter]

Just get the sasquatch feet

[sudden pewter]

Naw fuck that I’m not a hobbit

[analog pewter]

I love the .61 k/d self report

This is funny to me

[sudden pewter]

This is cheating

[analog pewter]

the confidence is impressive

[sudden pewter]

Embark, I’m performing poorly and it’s your fault!!

[stoic garden]

EMBARK! KILL THE POKE META AND MY LIFE IS YOURS!!!

[serene glade]

Pull the plug

[stoic garden]

i will winch and maul you

[split dove]

Better skins for LH1. It's a travesty it doesn't have better ones😭

[sudden pewter]

Dawg it’s got Eclipse Shade wym?

[stoic garden]

that is like 1 skin lol, it has a couple other good ones but most arent all that crazy

[analog pewter]

ok actually trueing

[sudden pewter]

Eclipse Shade could be the only skin series in the game and I’d be content

[analog pewter]

i tried to play power shift and it's crazy how everyone is an adolf pokeler in that mode, like pure distilled poke meta, insufferable

[sudden pewter]

I’ve been telling you!!!! Insane sightlines

[tame aspen]

ah yes pink with normal cashout money

[unkempt moss]

What am I even looking at here

[tidal urchin]

Repeater is getting old

[muted condor]

Fuck defib

[daring helm]

exactly

[charred musk]

cut a player in half so only half a player amount of money

[solid heart]

So I know the devs are terrible at their jobs and all but the balancing of this game is almost pathetically bad. Some weapons are actually a detriment to use. The matchmaking is terrible and give you racist level 2 players that couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. THE DAGGER IS THE WORST WEAPON IN THE GAME. The lowest usage rate and these useless devs do nothing to rework or change it to make it actually useable. Half the guns in the game are unusable and the devs just don’t give a rats ass they just release more skins and battle passes so they can soak up money from a game they don’t actually care about. Fuck Embark.

[unkempt moss]

dagger is strong

[analog pewter]

It really isn't

[noble saddle]

ARN is a damn salt mine

I feel stupid that I can't make this gun work it seems so straightforward and I just never get anything done with it

[analog pewter]

I feel that way about light in general I struggle hard

[noble saddle]

Well I have so many instances where I use arn where I start the pressure and they turn to look at me and kill me before my clip empties lmao

And so much of the game is in tight buildings I especially can't do anything in there with this gun really

[clever lion]

wouldn't the game be so much better if everybody had a positive k/d...

[noble saddle]

I can't win with this stupid rifle lmao what is this skill issue

I just feel like I'm offering such minimal utility to my team on light lmao what's rhe point of gateway and glitch if the only people taking advantage of them is me hahahaha

[spring spear]

even if other people in your team took advantage of them youd be better off as a medium for the extra sustain anyway
jump pad + zipline arguably give more mobility than gateway too

light is in a very bad state

[noble saddle]

ARN has better sustain than any medium rifle

[spring spear]

if you look at it in a vacuum sure but akm + healbeam offer more sustainability for your team

[noble saddle]

If my team weren't bots I wouldn't need to clutch res 90% of the time

That's like half my issue on ARN is people are just dead around me the entire game

Like I can fight with the gun but I also have to retrieve statues and shit

This gun sucks in solo queue I've decided not worth the headache this is ridiculous

[spring spear]

yeah you're not gonna be able to help that lol
unfortunately youre gonna have to adapt to how your team plays and if that means having to use them as bait so you can clutch your loadout's gonna have to reflect that

[noble saddle]

Yeah the gun is just too weak at mid to close range to do anything at all with basically if I'm diving in to save someone I'm basically commiting to not shooting. Other guns I could probably take a duel and then score the res

[spring spear]

if you want a soloq carry loadout for light i use dash v9s gateway glitch vanish/goo and its what seems to work best
no point in bringing infuser if your team doesnt know what to do with the health you give them, no point in bringing ARN if you cant play off angles because your team isnt taking focus

gateway is always good even if just for yourself

[noble saddle]

Yeah this is really the fundamental issue with the ARN is it's way too specialized

It's incredibly good at what it does but it requires a team to take advantage of the control of the map it gives me

Cause I can't make the dives myself

XP54 feels like a solo queue version of the gun

[spring spear]

well you need your team to take focus so you can actually dish out the consistent damage it offers
its why in this situation i was saying m's ARs are better because you dont need your team to take away focus since you will be with your team behind the heavy

[spring spear]

nah its even worse than the arn you're better off just running either of the pistols, m11 or even matter/lh1

[noble saddle]

I can carry a team decently well on my matter build but it's not the meta light loadout

[spring spear]

if you do well with it then it doesnt much matter if its meta, if we go off the "its not meta" mentality then bringing Light instead of heavy or medium is already offmeta specially for soloq

even when lmh was the dominating comp if you were soloq with randoms you were better off running MMH or MHH

[noble saddle]

My matter build is disruption and skirmisher that playstyle just works really well in a solo queue setting with no coordination lol

I'm trying to play the "move the team around the map and disable enemy tech" version of light and it's so much harder hahahaha

[spring spear]

theres no point in disabling enemy tech if your team cant capitalize on it

thats why L doesnt work in soloq, you cant coordinate with your team well enough to take advantage of the situations you can create

[noble saddle]

Yeah it's really frustrating going for a big brain disable play with all these added steps when I woulda probably just been better off taking high ground, blowing a hole in the floor and then pressuring from there hahaha

[spring spear]

when i tell my team im going to glitch nade them and i do and theyre just 3 hours behind me becuase they refuse to take my gateway or the medium refuses to bring mobility

at that point its like, why am i even bringing glitch

[noble saddle]

Solo queue version of light will be breach charge, gateway and frag

Yea idk solo kinda just feels like I'm playing shitty medium hahahaha

Any strategy that's gonna cook it's just like "yeah this class can do it but medium does it better in avg lobbies" lol

[spring spear]

youcan always just learn repeater adn abuse it for freelo before embark nerfs it

if they nerf it rather, seeing their record with that thing

[noble saddle]

Repeaters for bichboys

[spring spear]

yea but embark is not gonna nerf it anytime soon if theirbalancing is anything to go by so you may aswell abuse it
if not then idk use revolver, famas or akm/fcar

[noble saddle]

If all I cared about was Elo id run it but unfortunately I actually want to have fun with my game lol

[noble saddle]

Yeah I have more fun with that second tier, repeater is just way too brain-dead

I firmly believe that the only true S tier weapons in this game are repeater and BFR

[spring spear]

i like using fcar or akm over it but i know if i dont run repeater and another team is running it im instantly at a disadvantage and its too easy to use to not have at least on reserve

[noble saddle]

I like to think that my gamesense as AKM Medic carries against crayon eating repeater players

Maybe I'll lose a straight duel but I can win the IQ battle

[chilly granite]

This is just not true, the hipfire is barely worse than the xp and it's only 30ms slower ttk and it requires less bullets to kill

The arns greatest strength is that its competitive in every range even if it's slightly worse than m11

[noble saddle]

I just lose every duel I take on it lmao idk

[spring spear]

the issue is even if their iq is in the negatives if they get a map with a ton of open space then there's little you can do to actually beat them, specially if they can actually aim at closer ranges since for some reason embark decided repeater poking should beat sustained AR fire

[noble saddle]

Yeah I hate it, I got in a duel with a repeater player and I was hitting almost every shot outta my mag on him and he missed like 3 shots and still won the duel lmao

[chilly granite]

Do a tdm with arn to practice cqb fights, it's very usable in tdm

By contrast, the xp54 is extremely rough in tdm because 30ms ttk is offset by a tiny mag against lots of enemies

You can't duel a repeat with any light weapon except the bow or matter

[noble saddle]

I was dueling repeater with AKM at 5-10m

[chilly granite]

Ah sorry I misunderstood

Yeah that sucks, idk why embark thinks it's hard to ads in cqb?

That's not a real balancing factor

[noble saddle]

Yeah I have no clue why they made a shotgun with full screen range either

[chilly granite]

Not even a shotgun, a slug shotgun so you don't need to aim properly

[noble saddle]

I honestly believe it's rule of cool, they think it's sick and fun to use so they want it to be good

Like that's fair but that body shot damage needs to be cut

[chilly granite]

Lights current hp pool is balanced around enemies missing but if they only need to hit two shots, the probability of a miss becomes 0

[noble saddle]

Make it even more rewarding for the aimers

[noble saddle]

Yeah it needs to be rebalanced so the only way it'll two tap a light is if both hits are headshots

What's crazy is you have a balanced version of the repeater already in the game it's called the revolver lmao

[chilly granite]

Tbh I think they'll never do that because it'll destroy weapon identity, so rather I propose making them both projectile weapons with nerfed fire rate

Fundamental they shouldn't be able to bodyshot a light faster than sr84 can bodyshot medium

Also light already operates their bolt guns like an arthritic old man

So why do medium and heavy operate their lever and hammer like a functional human being?

Alternatively if medium wants good poke weapons they don't deserve to have more hp than light

The tradeoff with sr84 is that you have to play light to get it and medium just gets a better sr84 for no cost?

[noble saddle]

Well another good way to nerf repeater would be to nerf it's overall DPS but keep it's damage falloff minimal it would play a bit closer to pike that way but pike i think would end up being the stronger gun between the two of them up close if they went that route

The games weapons overall feel really well balanced, repeater and BFR just stand out so much as wtf were they cooking

All the other strong guns in the game at least aren't so strong you can't compete with them at most ranges

[analog pewter]

Just reduce its rate of fire lol

[noble saddle]

There's a lot you could do yea, reducing rate of fire is effectively a DPS nerf

They could also make it work like spy's revolver in TF2 where you can shoot it fast but it starts spreading, there's a cool down before you can take the next accurate shot

There's not enough guns in this game that behave that way, BFR and Repeater could probably both benefit from that

Pike kinda behaves that way because if you mash like crazy the recoil just jumps all over the place but there's not much for other guns that work like that

[grand turtle]

One way to ruin yet another gun :^)
Its easy to "stand out" for being good when the bar is so low

Cerberus has so little damage at the tiny range it has for example.
Repeater, famas and fcar had no competition for a while (and it still is the case)

[frigid dagger]

yep ur right, playing with it rn

[rich mica]

i like canes

[modest sparrow]

same

[rich mica]

gravity cube

[modest sparrow]

real

[rich mica]

i like akm

[safe atlas]

for real

[wide stratus]

Add naked skins

[bright girder]

YOUR SERVERS ARE COOKED FIX THEM. GETTING LIKE 100 PING TO NATIVE SERVERS AND YELLOW SYMBOL FIX UR GAME ITS UNPLAYABLE

[vocal flume]

Cb01 needs a fire rate nerf and it needs to be a projectile after 40m like the sniper rifle, there is no reason for this gun to be a hitscan full range

[slender fiber]

buff akm

[tardy arrow]

Whats the best light gun at the moment?

[vocal bluff]

V9S - M11 - or ARN

[tardy arrow]

Thank you

[vocal bluff]

I recommend it you're using V9S try out running invis with it

[abstract kestrel]

Please buff the spear already, I only need an excuse to use it, I want to use it, it's currently a throw pick

[tardy arrow]

Im running m11 with dash rn

[sudden sorrel]

what about medium, whats the best weapon

[vocal bluff]

ok and if you do use invis V9S I'd say run breach/bore, gate. and infuser/ sonar. Breach or bore is preference, but when it comes to infuser or sonar if you have a heavy and 1 med run infuser, but like if you have 1 light and 1 med run sonar. Basically if you have a light on your team and no heavies go sonar

[tardy arrow]

I play sonar pyro with heal gun

[indigo nexus]

CB-01

[vocal bluff]

As of now the best would be CB-01, Famas/ AK, or R. 357.

[sudden sorrel]

rgr right now ive been running famas w defib, jumppad, and goo with the dematerialixer

[vocal bluff]

If you do run demat this setup works well if you have a heavy and a med/heavy
Demat | R. 357 - Glitch Trap - Jump/Zip - APS | Reserve | AKM/ FAMAS - DEFIB - Goo - Zip/Jump | (Side note: feel free to replace glitch or APS with Defib)

[vocal bluff]

@sudden sorrel ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[sudden sorrel]

rgr, thank u

[chilly granite]

Tbh it should be projectile at less range than the sr84, it's ridiculous that it can even be hitscan close the sr84 range, when it can kill light faster than a light can kill medium

[crystal prawn]

yall know if ghost ring or iron sights is better for repeater

[serene glade]

just go ahead and use your free will on that one bud

[serene glade]

so if we removed dash, light would be "insanely weak". would light players rather have that so then they just buff every single gadget and weapon even more to be nutty/valuable. or is dash just that big of a crutch to people

[sudden pewter]

Dash is a solid 2/3 of Lights identity at this point idk bwo

[serene glade]

its just weird seeing all these "bro dash isnt a problem, its fine bro youre just bad and lack skill, but light would be horrible and unplayable without it"

[sudden pewter]

It could lose a charge and still be S tier

Lights still have amazing burst/mobility even when off dash

[serene glade]

yeah, like i think grapple when not used like a moron like most people do is still good at what it does. lights always use it to engage on people and then lose their 150HP and wonder why they couldnt just mash dash to stay safe. instead of using it to grapple to safe off angles or use it to disengage by breaking los and then instantly getting somewhere with height. dash to me feels like the same argument i see of "some close range heavy weapons cant be too strong because winch"

[sudden pewter]

Grapple is best when used for positioning rather than engaging/disengaging IMO

[serene glade]

yeah disengaging isnt the priority, but the option is still there

[indigo nexus]

It's very flexible.

[serene glade]

can you grapple hook on an enemy?

[indigo nexus]

I often use it to bait players into jumping off the building we were fighting on to chase me, and then just grapple back up or to a different place when they follow

[sudden pewter]

no

[indigo nexus]

It would be a pretty neat buff, honestly

[raven swallow]

grapple was good when u could grab canisters

[serene glade]

damn, let me grapple on an enemy and spin around them at mach 12 while shooting a matter

[sudden pewter]

Thats winch babygirl

[serene glade]

finals social media showing off new skins a week before release instead of any new gameplay elements has me real excited for this balance patch next week

[sudden pewter]

Oh you meant the canister "bug" that let you fly

[sudden pewter]

deadass? fuck.

[serene glade]

youre getting finger gun deagle buddy, rejoice and dont pay attention to the minimal balance changes

[sudden pewter]

So they made the bug a skin?

[serene glade]

yeah, but you say pew pew pew!

[sudden pewter]

oh

eh

[molten ingot]

I came up with a small improvement for the CL-40 and MGL-32. I suggest making aiming with these weapons more functional and useful. When you press the right mouse button, you would see the projectile’s flight trajectory. Similar functionality already exists in the game, so I think it would be fairly easy to implement.

[wind folio]

thanks embark for hard nerfing the sniper rifle in the upcoming patch!

[drifting tartan]

Can we please get a massive sword for heavy. I promise people will use it.

[simple snow]

Any good bow loadouts to climb ranked tryna main bow

[broken igloo]

How do I get good with heavy ?

[uncut condor]

try to play defensively rather than offensively

only engage in fights you absolutely need to, otherwise stick to your objective, heavy is at its best when you’re acting as a wall

you either are the wall, or you bust down the walls

[drifting tartan]

Busting the walls down is obviously the better choice no?
I’m gonna move the cash out down about three floors

[balmy carbon]

guns

[shell sonnet]

where did you get that from?

[indigo nexus]

probably from... ohio!

[simple snow]

I need a in depth guide on how to play the bow

[sudden pewter]

Hold left click and release on heads

[uncut condor]

if you're just starting out with heavy I think you should be playing more defensively to learn his kit and then once you're used to him try branching out to doing stuff like tanking or demolishing

[shell sonnet]

Sniff glue (optional)
Spam left click as fast as possible

[simple snow]

Best dagger loadout to push ranked

[alpine sphinx]

The Sledge Heavy Swing should still deal damage to all enemies in range, its stupid that that was changed

That just makes the heavy attack outright worse than the light attack in most situations because you deal less damage per hit AND have a long windup, in addition to also not having full control over who you're hitting since the hit registration is wonky and you might not hit who you're actually targeting, but can only deal damage to one target

*most situations where you're fighting multiple people in cqc i should add

[unkempt moss]

Were waiting on the melee rework.

So I wouldn't expect Sledge buffs until then. It was dominating the pro league and ruby or something so they "fixed" it. Thankfully they did that for us, we almost had something semi interesting instead of the ARs

[alpine sphinx]

god forbid theres some fun in my video game

[unkempt moss]

Fun is a bad word on the finals discord. Buy skin, shoot AR, tune in to esports.

Didn't you hear, we're getting finger guns! The game is saved

[alpine sphinx]

still praying for dash nerfs

[unkempt moss]

Doom posting aside, this Thursdays balance patch is kind of the make or break point for if I continue to invest time in to the game. I really hope they have a lot coming with the patch.

[alpine sphinx]

yeah, about time they finally nerf heavy

they can almost fight back now

[unkempt moss]

I seriously doubt they nerf dash. It's the only thing keeping light viable in ruby it seems. One constant with embark is its a true rarity for them to ask lights to get better at the game.

From the way they describe it, there's zero lights in the top 500. So they need help.

Somehow its the hardest, least viable build with the weakest guns, gadgets/specs, and embark is constantly nerfing them... but its still the most played build. Weird that so many people log on to the game to play the least fun worst thing in the game.

In other news Akuma is unusable because he has the lowest health in the game.

[alpine sphinx]

embark doesnt understand that movement is fun, but can also get you killed if you arent careful

[topaz steeple]

See, people play the game for fun, light is fun.

[alpine sphinx]

so most people play light and get themselves killed easily

[topaz steeple]

Yeah, but most people need to get better at the game (me included)

[unkempt moss]

You would never assume light is fun from the way they lights talk about it.

[topaz steeple]

Lol, i only play light

My hamster brain can't comprehend going slow

To be fair, i'm not that bad at light, but still, i die a lot

[alpine sphinx]

thing is, if you are slower, you are more likely to play together with your team, you just cant go on a solo adventure behind enemy lines as easily, and thus you are forced to play with your teammates, which wins you games, hence why heavy has the highest winrate

[unkempt moss]

The game plays at the speed of heavy regardless how fast lights are. If the lights dont they just get blown up so you may as well just slow down anyway.

[topaz steeple]

Oh, no. I play H+ infuser and stick with the team's heavy

And ambush, and get cashout plugs

[unkempt moss]

I will say it forever. Heavy is the finals. Lights and mediums are just the heavy's supports.

[topaz steeple]

Sure

[indigo nexus]

*had the highest winrate in season 3

We don’t have more up to date info, I don’t think?

[topaz steeple]

Sure, but i can still get top combat score with a good heavy, i'm top 100 worldwide in quick cash

[indigo nexus]

I know heavy is very viable right now competitively, but that seems to be a general claim

[topaz steeple]

And i win a lot of light only team games

[unkempt moss]

I would hope so playing light. Unfortunately for the lights, kills are only part of the equation.

I dont play quick cash because its just third party simulator, but I would assume lights feast in the chaos.

[topaz steeple]

Eh, heavies can still bully lights if they play well, usually getting highest kills and easy defence on cashout, and there are more fair fights than third parties

[unkempt moss]

In quick cash? I'm not top 100 so ive never played at that level but I dont know if ive ever experience a fair fight in quick cash.

Very small sample size there as well.

[chilly granite]

yes, please

[chilly granite]

I use grapple in second way and at least right now, light doesn't really have enough survivability wihtout dash, against 110damage rpg, 88dmg cb etc

[chilly granite]

most fun and least effective, if you play tdm you see so many feeding lights who are clearly having fun doing their dumb shit

[chilly granite]

tdm also tends to be mostly lights which is a serious buff to light lmao

[chilly granite]

it's way easier to die to an unexpected third party on light too, though

[chilly granite]

I have a significantly better win probability in sub-gold cashout games with grapple because their aim isn't good enough to punsih the lack of dash and the mobility, positioning and vault grab potential of grapple is huge

but once I hit gold, players started to get too consistent at hitting their shots for grapple to feel good. Some games it was fine, but when it was a hard lobby in low gold, so probably high gold/low plat enemies, their aim was functional enough to punish the grapple

grapple has the problem where it can't be used around corners or without aiming it; aiming it takes time, in which you're quite probably taking some shots, and you need to aim it in suhc a way you can reach cover effectively, which is sometimes hard to impossible. In CQB in particular it's really rough

I've been trying to practice grapple in tdm, and tdm really highlights it's weaknesses via both smaller maps and more combat focus rather than objective focus

there are some weapons that can exploit grapples unique benefits over dash, and some weapons good enough to go mostly unpunished (sr84, double barreled, v9s) but for the bow (and the matter) in particular, with it's more limited range than sr84 and much, much worse dps/burst than the others, it's pretty rough

the biggest problem is that dash gives you 90% of the mobility of grapple, which is the superiour choice of mobility, and just everything else is better too

and gateway will fill in the otheer 10% of the mobility gap, and for your team too

dash needs to be as punihsing as grapple with poor use, which is to say, likely to have 8+s of being dead in the water

right now the most terrible use has a maximum dead in teh water of 6.5s

but I think nerfing dash would alos help lower the skill floor and make the worst lights, less bad, which is helpful in retaining new players and also in just making the game more fun for everyone

and I think dash lights can be really, really toxic for new players who haven't worked out how to aim to play against

there's a goo flamethrower heavy in my tdm ahahahah

that's a chadly flamethrower heavy

[drifting tartan]

No such thing

[hardy dust]

Just buff grapple instead of nerfing dash

[serene glade]

Probably dash, invis bomb, h+, glitch/sonar/whatever

[hardy dust]

No need to make both of them terrible instead of just making one a bit more viable

[chilly granite]

l take

[hardy dust]

Do you want light to not exist above gold or what 😭

[chilly granite]

I mean, firstly, I'm not a ranked main, I'm currently experimenting in ranked, so no I don't give a shit

secondly, there's no way they just nerf dash without giving light any buffs to try to mitigate it

and light being dumpster teir for half a season is fine by me if light becomes actually viable with all specs in the future

[hardy dust]

Its embark, I wouldn't be surprised, plus dash was only meta because cloak got gutted

The solution to grapple being terrible is not making all the other light specs just as bad 😭

[chilly granite]

I think dash would've been meta over cloack even then if so many oneshots didn't exist at the time

[hardy dust]

I doubt it

[chilly granite]

cloak is a counter to oneshots, dash is a counter to dps#

cloak gives light first move advantage in most situations; dash surrenders first move advantage for a reaction time check on the enemies aim, a very powerful positioning tool, and a dodge for projectiles

even now cloak can function as first move advantage quite well at distance which is why invis bomb is still popular

[serene glade]

nothing has ever one shot a light other than other light weapons no?

[chilly granite]

nukes, mines

mines kinda still do? but you need two slots of mines which is a lot

basically every source of explosive damage has been tuned down since s1 becuase it oneshots lights

[serene glade]

ive seen a light jump over and then dash over a mine to take 8 damage so probably need more than 2

[chilly granite]

game was new so even mechanically gifted people were ass

it wasn't like many epople had taken the time to practice jump -> dash over a mine in s1

[hardy dust]

1shot only in s1, and cloak was meta until getting gutted in s6

[chilly granite]

and if you can't do it consistently, then you're not gonna take dash in a match you worry about your mmr in

cloak still gives first move advantage (wihc is more relevent now than ever with bfr/cb)

first move advantage is inherently powerful but it's also got more counterplay

tbh cloak should have a cooldown before you attack but that's a different arugment

I don't thikn people will go back to cloak in the same way as before now that people are better at utilsing dash

a dash meta forces people to learn dash and dash is insanely poweful when u can take invis bomb for invis

if invis bomb didn't exist, I don't think this would be as much of a dash meta as it is

you really, really, really feel dash in tdm

invis is more powerful in a mode where there's an objective you can invis around/trap via breach etc, but even so, invis is fairly popular for oneshot combos in tdm

but dash's ability to reposition behind cover, to break peoples aim, it's insane

I mean, I didn't play much in s5, mostly season 1/2/3

so maybe season 5 cloak was weird? idk

but yeah, I really don't think that now people understand how to exploit dash, cloak can compete

but even so, I don't think nerfing dash is a bad move. when I use grapple it feels very powerful and effective. It's just that dash is even moreso

like, if you nerf dash and light is dead or everyone goes to cloak, then you can look at that and do something else

but at the very, barest mminimu, dash cooldown is way too fucking low

the longest cooldown possible, after you dump all 3 charges together, is 6.5s, compared to grapples 8s for every use

that's such low donwtimee it barely even deserves to be called downtime

how far can a heavy even push in 6.5s?

and again, that's after all 3 charges have been dumped

there's no way you actually think that's reasonable to make mediums and heavies play against

a medium or heavy against a highly skilled dash light, eeven a dashlight with the worst aim in the world, cannot ever catch them

I've played a few games today trying to farm xp on nullifier and gravity vortex where I just dash around heavies, nullify, vortext, nullify vortex

lmao

[hardy dust]

Its 6.5s per dash iirc

[chilly granite]

yes, which means when you've used the last one, it's 6.5s to the last one coming back

[hardy dust]

Yeag and you only get 1

[chilly granite]

in reality it's shorter because the internal cast delay

and often you only need 1?

like bad dash lights being so out of position they need two dashes is their fault and they should actauly die for it lol

if you have ALREADY USED 3

you don't hit a longer cooldown than 6.5 until you have used 4 dashes

you can litreally use dashes to infinity with 6.5s cooldown

and honestly, it's not even that bad if you position well, it's still an incredilby poweful ability

meanwhile grapple is 8s cd for every single use

if you dump all 3 charges, why are oyu penalized less than a single use of grapple?

a 15s cd on dash, or even 20s cd, would reward more intelligent and measured use rather than spam

and it would still be extremely good, I promise

good enough, maybe not, but light is already dumpster tier after glitch nerf lol

@hardy dust do you actually this it's reasonable/fair that the window to punish a light that just used all their dash charges is less than 6.5s? do you actually think that a medium/heavy can actaully catch up a light that has just dumped all their dash charges, assumign that the light didn't just spam them while missing their bullets and acutallyy used the dashes to some effect?

and that's ignoring the fact that dash gets siginfiicantly better if you happeen to have enabled vsync or framegen, since it adds lag/so you see the dash later and have to react faster to apply the same damage as someone without

and the most likely people to be using vsync/framegen are the new players who are trying the game too

[hardy dust]

Yea

If you catch them normally, they have a fighting chance with dashes

Catching them on downtime is a free kill

As for the lag issue, nerfing dash isn't any way to fix that issue, there should be better optimization

[tropic trout]

nerf heavy buff light

[drifting tartan]

Genuine question are we ever going to get thermal vision back? It’s been a minute dawg

[chrome orbit]

wassup

[sudden pewter]

No, it’s being reworked!

[chilly granite]

reworked = shadowrealm

thermals over, RIP dead and buried

[alpine sphinx]

dash is extremely broken as it is rn tbh

and grapple is very viable, dash is just way better lmao

[chilly granite]

well said

[stoic garden]

crazy

[pale lantern]

Give heavy the 950 jdj

[hardy dust]

Very viable at low ranks

Dash is fine, its just all the other light specs suck compared to it

[chilly granite]

mid gold lobbies make it start feel bad but in silver for sure

[hardy dust]

Since embark gutted cloak and never bothered making grapple good

[hardy dust]

Tbh up to plat you can run literally anything and do fine

[chilly granite]

aim is good enough to punish grapple

grapple is still viable but you need to be using it highly eeffectively

[alpine sphinx]

invis is bad, grapple isnt, dash os op af

[chilly granite]

if you're above (given rank) in skill, you can run anything and do fine

but if you're at (given rank) in skill, in mid gold, players aim well enough that grapple is very punishable

[hardy dust]

Cloak is better than grapple

Grapple doesn't offer much compared to dash but cloak actually has some niche uses

Both aren't good, but cloak actually has a lil going for it

[chilly granite]

grapple is better for yoinking

[muted grotto]

add WW2 weapon skins
lh1 as m1 garand

[chilly granite]

but yoinking doesn't work once the enemies are good enough (see, mid gold) hahahah

but dash just doesn't have cooldown, look at my clip in lbm

[analog pewter]

Grapple is neither burst mobility nor concealment so it basically always has to be used proactively and can't really save you in a pinch. You just can't really push fights with it unless you know you're going to get the wipe

Most decent players can track a light using it so it's not great for escapes

[chilly granite]

exactly, and the cutoff is mid gold hahaha

[gusty relic]

Grapple is only good if you’re name is neonguttz

[analog pewter]

i placed gold 2 and boy do i feel like im being skill diffed with the deagles now

probably just an off day but i am unusually not hitting my fuckin shots

[sudden pewter]

I’d bully you but I haven’t even touched ranked so I can’t

[analog pewter]

at least won one ranked match and usually got into round 2 so ive gained more than i've lost post-placements

but the match i won i def felt a little bit carried by our third random fill heavy

[analog pewter]

unlike other games gold in this game actually seems to be a solid rank full of people who understand the game and can shoot their gun and use gadgets well

[sudden pewter]

I played DirtyBomb and gold was basically bronze

[analog pewter]

yea not the case here gold is actually gold

[sudden pewter]

Haven’t touched any ranked experience since 😔

[proven raft]

you really should

[ebon wharf]

Ranked can be fun