💣┇weapons-gadgets

[exotic grove]

hate to like nerd out a bit here, but thats not how client side prediction rules work, especially not in this case, the main reason that the light dagger backstab "tech" i guess you could call it works, is that the server sees it as a backstab, not your client. if it was your client, it would do jack to the enemy. not a client issue, just game design

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, it's a poor design choice for a game like the finals

[deep karma]

You, as a client, are looking at all of the enemy positions in the past, and shooting and meleeing them based on those positions. If you had to attack enemies based on where the server saw them, it would be impossible to shoot any enemy, because you would have to lead your shots by whatever half of your RTT time is.

The server will use its own view to confirm that the attack was in fact possible within a prediction window.

[sudden pewter]

In my perfect gamer utopia everyone is connected to fiber optic internet in a worldwide LAN system. Alas this is the dark timeline where gamers are the most oppressed class

[exotic grove]

your never seeing enemies irt, and yes. as a client, your looking at all the past enemy positions, but ur client isnt saying you killed the guy, and isnt showing u where tyhe dude is going

[deep karma]

With you so far

[exotic grove]

so explain to me how its a client side prediction rule issue when some guy kills you and its cuz "his client said so"

thats just a ping or latency issue

[deep karma]

Sure thing,

[sudden pewter]

I mean thats a given with online gaming, it's just wild that THIS is the state of dagger. It's already in the game and I'm never going to ask for it to be removed but imo thats not a healthy weapon

[exotic grove]

so why u complainin about client side prediction rules

which theoretically dont affect any other players

[sudden pewter]

I'M the one complaining smh

[deep karma]

I meant sure thing as in, I am going to explain this topic to you, and I will need a moment to type.

[exotic grove]

bros a major in software engineering and works at at&t

[sudden pewter]

Most multiplayer games function the same way 🤷‍♂️
Servers aren't super complicated

[exotic grove]

thats what im sayin

[sudden pewter]

I'm just brick headed and hate dying to a dagger light when I'm not necessarily doing anything wrong

[deep karma]

So you as a client are receiving positions of all players in the past, that much we know. The server sends a snapshot of player positions to you and then you render them at those positions. The server will know that I am at position x = 2, and I just ran there from position x = 0. By the time it takes the server to send that information to you, you may see me at x = 0 when I'm actually at x = 2.

When you shoot at me in the past based on your client's information, you'll send that information to the server to say that you shot at me, say, 500ms ago (or however they decide to handle it).

On the server's side, it will then rewind all player positions back 500ms into the past, and confirm that if a player was to be rewinded back in time, would your shot at a particular angle actually have hit them. This is the core of the issue for example where you can shoot players as they run behind cover. On my client, I see you run behind cover and shoot at you as you leave my view angle - on the server, you are already behind cover. I tell the server that I shot at you a few moments into the past, and it will rewind time to confirm that it was valid for me to have shot at you at that point in time given my ping and such.

This same thing applies to melee mechanics. I have a full second of ping, and I see you run behind cover. I stab at you on my screen and my knife hits you. Even though you are well behind cover and far away from me, I tell the server I stabbed at your location one second ago - it will rewind time and check if that stab is possible, and if so, it will honor it.

You can fudge around these mechanics to make it harder to exploit, (for example, don't trust the client to give an accurate time window for when they shot, estimate it based on their real ping so they can't cheat it like in the Team Fortress 2 example) but at the end of the day it's all based on this client side prediction algorithm.

[exotic grove]

so what your telling me here is you have 2 issues

1 is that you have 1 second of ping jesus christmas
2 is that when you stab me, the server does that "rewind," and kills me, which doesnt make sense, cuz if it was "client side" and i had 20 seconds of ping, anyone i killed in 20 seconds would die no matter what the server said, so case and point, not possible, and it HAS to be server sided cuz that would be stupid broken, and it would instead send the info to the server. which checks to see if you shot him within the grace window that the server gives players, and registers as a hit. or u could just get better internet

[sudden pewter]

The issue gets worse with high ping but it's kinda fundamental to how we connect to multiplayer games atm

[exotic grove]

idea

[sudden pewter]

It's not something we can really fix with all the variables between players, their hardware, location, internet connection, etc.

[deep karma]

1. Was a hyperbole example to demonstrate how this works, I figured that would be clear but sorry if it was not.

2. The server does rewinds to check if shots and melee hits were in fact possible, but the server is responsible for resolving those hits based on its own rules. For example, if your ping is better than mine and you shoot at me in the past and kill me, and I do the same thing with 5 seconds of ping, you will win, because the server will ignore my request telling me that I shot at you because I would have already been dead during that prediction window thus my shot was invalid - I hope that makse sense.

[exotic grove]

so ur telling me u have bad ping

and he has better...
thats how games work

[deep karma]

I fear you may be assuming us talking about the hypotheticals of netcode to be any way related to my experience playing this game.

[deep karma]

Agreed, that's why I explained to you how it works!

[exotic grove]

whyd u say it was a client side issue? if u meant something else mb, but it sounded like it

[sudden pewter]

I'd love to stay and discuss the finer points of my hatred for Lights but it's midnight now and I work a full shift tomorrow o7
See you gents later

[deep karma]

It's not an "issue", it's just that the client is able to tell the server "I backstabbed this person at this time, and they weren't facing me on my client - can you check if I was in range, assuming I was stabbing at their location where they were 400 miliseconds ago?"

The server will validate "okay that looks good to me. Your ping sucks but 400ms ago I do in fact see that you were in range to stab them, so we'll honor that and give you a backstab".

[exotic grove]

or they could add a function that nullifies all damage to a player that was already hit, with the knife registering only to the original spot of contact, then adding a tag to the player to not get damaged again, so that the ability to stab multiple players still exists

[deep karma]

I don't think that's related, and I think that's already how it would work. You wouldn't be able to stab one player multiple times. The hit will stop after the "original point of contact"

[exotic grove]

cuz you shouldnt 1 have 400 ping thats like across the world numbers, like 40 or 60 is more reasonable, and it shouldnt effect much cuz u arent doing 180s in 40-60 ms

[exotic grove]

tags would reset after each attack

[deep karma]

I am using inflated ping values as a hypothetical to try and illustrate to you how "I killed you because my client said so" is possible - nothing more. I have no horse in this race beyond that.

[exotic grove]

which is fine, im just sayin it shouldnt matter if you have the same ping, however they should nerf the weapon

[deep karma]

It still matters even if you have low ping, it just makes the window for shooting players as they run behind cover smaller, the window to stab player's in the back even though they turned around to face you, smaller, etc.

It's all about the window of time for these perceived issues. They exist regardless, higher ping just helps makes them more visible.

[exotic grove]

higher ping means that your shooting at the dude, and hitting that "grace window" the server gives you earlier

so you actually hit the guy, instead of lagging out

also how many times per second ur shots are getting sent to the server

[deep karma]

The grace window exists in low ping and high ping alike, but it is smaller and will feel like "actually getting hit" on the victims side that's correct.

[exotic grove]

what sides the victim on?

[royal pier]

Reason #3857 I don't trust Embark: at some point they changed Lockbolt so that if you bounce roughly twice while falling down it breaks, and they never mentioned it.

[exotic grove]

to clarify

[deep karma]

I don't understand the question, the victim is the person being attacked in every case.

[exotic grove]

high or low ping bruh

[deep karma]

It could be either!

[exotic grove]

not even close

[indigo nexus]

The difference between the players’ ping isn’t really the thing that causes most latency artefacts, it’s more the sum of the ping between you with the server as the midway point

[exotic grove]

all decided by the server, correct?

[indigo nexus]

Not sure what you mean by that

[exotic grove]

like all of my shots are decided by the server wether they register or not

[indigo nexus]

Ultimately yes

[exotic grove]

case and point

[deep karma]

Correct the server is the final arbiter, but it uses your client's data to inform which shots you are trying to make and if they are valid that's right

[indigo nexus]

If a shot that definitely was on-target ever failed to register it’s because the server deemed it illegitimate, or your connection is abysmal

[exotic grove]

which isnt a client side decision

if it was hackers could kill everyone instantly

[deep karma]

It's not a client side decision, it's a client side prediction, and the server will validate your prediction using backwards reconciliation, the rewind mechanic I was speaking to earlier.

[exotic grove]

it aint a prediction, ur shot is being sent to the server which will deem it to be a hit

ur client isnt the one thats calculating if the dakmage you did hit, all ur clients doing is sending the info of ur position, shot position, and a couple other things. the servers doing the calculating if you hit the dude, based on the stuff you sent to it, and its doing that in the games "real time"

[deep karma]

That is correct.

[exotic grove]

that isnt a client side prediction my guy

[indigo nexus]

You could call it a prediction given what your client sees is but an approximation of the true state of the game, but it is an unusual sentence

[exotic grove]

which runs on the server

[indigo nexus]

For shooting purposes the client is typically placed in the authoritative position, so the server would be the one considered to be doing the predicting

[deep karma]

It's not unusual at all. It's the common nomenclature for this topic. Swift, I think you may not be familiar with the concept of client side prediction as a networking concept.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Latency_Compensating_Methods_in_Client/Server_In-game_Protocol_Design_and_Optimization

[exotic grove]

sorry i love goin on dumb arguments with random ppl about the dumbest small shit

[deep karma]

I sometimes do that when I have the energy for it, I get it!

[exotic grove]

i know what it is

ive been in the field for quite a while
well, alot of fields actually

[deep karma]

I see. I feel like you should be able to understand how client side prediction and lag compensation play a role in a client being able to communicate that a shot or stab was made at a particular player then that can lead to their death, even when it feels unfair in that case.

[exotic grove]

i wouldt call it unfair, i would call it that he stabbed you

and its an equal trade cuz you could do the same to him with a pew pew

[deep karma]

Yeah, unfair is up to interpretation. Most players will call various stabs or shots unfair (he shot me behind cover!) but I'd call them reasonable shots to make once you understand how it works. 😁

[exotic grove]

werent u the guy callin the backstabbing thing "unfair" cuz it was a client issue?

[deep karma]

.. No, that was Catter

[sudden pewter]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/GtmObRra0AAjfph.gif

[exotic grove]

cuz if it was, that would be an unfair advantage but yk

[indigo nexus]

Some people acknowledge this but complain that the tickrate should be higher to reduce it, but I feel like there is a tendency for people to assume it plays a bigger role than it really does and apparently not think about the costs surrounding that

[exotic grove]

so like

[sudden pewter]

I shouldn't have to think about server gumbo to properly deal with an encounter of a weapon, is what my argument boiled down to. If I see a player in front of me and get backstabbed regardless its poorly designed

[deep karma]

You mean that? I say "It will never feel fun" to generally speak to what Catter is experiencing. Not my personal experience with the weapon.

[exotic grove]

to change the subject, anyone signing up for the tfgs in july

[indigo nexus]

Well you’re correct that the weapon design is flawed in the sense that nothing like that could possibly feel correctly intuitive due to the physical limitations we are working with. What you actually want them to do about it is the key thing.

[exotic grove]

mb then, i rest my case

[sudden pewter]

My other gripe is that because it was added in the first place, and players are attached to it; it'd be unfair to totally redesign it or remove it
So we're stuck with it

[exotic grove]

reworks

[indigo nexus]

The problem is mainly the backstab mechanic.

[exotic grove]

nerf the dash distance by like 7-15%

[indigo nexus]

You simply have to remove that if you want the weapon to feel significantly fairer

[exotic grove]

and backstab damadge by 5-9%

[sudden pewter]

Nerfing specs due to how they interact with weapons isn't a path I'd like to tread personally

Simplicity is king

[exotic grove]

its the only way of nerfing that normally still makes a weapon good, you just have to play with the numbers

[indigo nexus]

I do not think dash needs nerfing and it would not fix this.

[indigo nexus]

It 100% does not need a nerf! The weapon is generally bad.

[sudden pewter]

Rather than tweaking numbers we could change combo's, animations, active frames, etc.
Which admittedly takes significantly more effort than just tweaking damage

[exotic grove]

r we talking casuals or comp

[sudden pewter]

Dual Blades third strike could be removed and imo the weapon would be better off

[indigo nexus]

Both, really. Dagger is not a mainstream option anywhere.

[exotic grove]

so ur saying we should buff it?

[indigo nexus]

Slightly. The nerfs it had seemed unwarranted to me

[exotic grove]

prolly cuz it was annoying and players hated its playstyle, cuz its impossible to aim at the guy doing laps around you

[sudden pewter]

My qualms with the weapon are purely with how it's tied to latency and the frustration therein, I feel if those could be remedied a 180d backstab angle would be more forgivable

[exotic grove]

anyone signing up for the champoinship

[indigo nexus]

Making the angle wider leads to a more consistent performance… that in of itself helps

Of course the most consistent case is removing the backstab thing entirely, but… it seems impractical

[sudden pewter]

I’d be totally down for the removal of the backstab mechanic as I personally don’t like using the weapon nor fighting against it but it’d be unfair to those that enjoy using it

Plus what would we do with it even? Make it a worse sword?

[deep karma]

Leaving beta into 1.0, I was sort of wondering if they would merge throwing knives and knife into one weapon to try and get some of the strengths of both in there.

[marble bone]

we need sticky grenade for season 8 need something to blow up walls from a distance

[restive plover]

I tried to explain this to sm the other day and the mf could not understand it 😭

[young pewter]

Thermal bore??? Rpg??? Medium is just lost though

[mellow flower]

healing emitter as a durian or watermelon for a skin would be cool

[opal matrix]

do the wepens ever chang?

[swift cradle]

If you're complaining about dash + backstab... turn up your aim sensitivity...

[sudden pewter]

• RPG
• C4
• Breaching Charge
• Red Barrel
• Thermal Bore

[placid slate]

or hug a wall, my ass got put in a private match with a few cracked dagger players, backed up against a wall and they could do shit

[inner haven]

Will a reinforced wall like in r6 work as a counter to demat? Its pretty much the only thing in the game with no specific counter

Given to the heavy class as a gadget

[sleek tide]

W but you could make some points basically impossible to get into

[inner haven]

Make it so thermal bore, c4, breach charge, grenade launcher, Cl 40 or rpg can destroy the reinforced wall

just not demat

[sleek tide]

Alr

I think it should have the hp of a little better than a heavy player and resistance to fire

[native crater]

Doesn’t glitch counter every specialization?

[sudden pewter]

Yeh

[native crater]

I feel that making a gadget specifically designed to counter demat and nothing else is not the best idea

Best case scenario it makes demat unusable

Worst case no one will use it

[sleek tide]

Thats why I was thinking about using it against all gadgets not just demat

[inner haven]

I am more so speakin in terms of defending a cashout. Its way too easy for players to just demat in and out of cashboxes

[inner haven]

Thats why you give a certain amount of charge to the wall. Like 2 charges of reinforced wall that only goes on cooldown after it has been destroyed

so its not spammable like the healing emitter was in the start of season 7

[weak kernel]

demat's problem is that it's way too fun to use to just gut it, but the second it was included it started fucking with pre-established dynamics of the game, dynamics that were fun

[inner haven]

Like it or not demat is way too OP right now

[weak kernel]

i don't think being able to reinforce 2 walls will stop demat with how versatile it is, you can just go to a different wall

[sleek tide]

Idk how they would nerf demat tho besides a new gadget that protects walls

[weak kernel]

like i remember when the sledge being able to breach freely without worrying about APS or charges was something unique it had and a cool reason to take it and now it's just like, demat does that without any of the extreme downsides of taking hammer

[native crater]

Demat wasn’t actually that out of line on release
Healing beam was still way more common

[inner haven]

yeah but it still gives the defender some form of control l while maintaining the integrity of demat

[sleek tide]

Ye but now people have made it meta

Maybe they could give the reinforced wall only a charge or two

[weak kernel]

the fact that healing beam was still stronger never changed the fact that I've always been annoyed by demat 2bh, giving medium the best indoors mobility of every class and being something that often just nullifies the fortification/destruction games you play otherwise never sat right with me at any point

it's really fun to use but I think it's unhealthy unless you totally rework it

[inner haven]

Not having demat in your medium class is literally just throwing for fun.

[sleek tide]

Hold on can we side track to the nulifier

[inner haven]

Am a medium player btw and I think the class is just lacking in variety of playstyle which is why embark is reworking the class in the future

[sleek tide]

Like ik it was absolutely broken but now no one uses it besides new kids that never played before

And are just trying to find their play style

[sleek tide]

Ye everyone is using the same two load outs

[weak kernel]

it's always been this way though, they've always had a few gadgets that are just too strong and useful to drop- it's been jump pad+defib+third thing for as long as I can remember, medigun on top of that for a long time, and now it's demat because medigun's been hit hard and healing has been spread around

[whole smelt]

Remember when demat + cerberus was a huge problem last season

[weak kernel]

i stand by the thought that cerb is fine as it is right now but solely because demat exists, and if they nerf demat they can buff cerb back up a little bit more

[sleek tide]

Only slight buff tho because the cerb is a very fine line

[whole smelt]

Yea right now its still decent but you can really tell how it got nerfed

Honestly unfair you could hit a headshot on a light and they are done for

[native crater]

The “least varied” class has the most diverse set of gadgets and specializations

[sleek tide]

I mean that’s what they’re built for, cracked up little flies

[sleek tide]

Ye but everyone uses a lot of the same stuff

[inner haven]

Notice how i said "playstyle"

[weak kernel]

one meatshot and light is just dead was dumb especially considering

the cerb fires faster than the double barrel, light's counterpart
they had just extended the range in the same patch

like even if light is left on 1HP after afterburn so anything will finish them off that feels more reasonable

[native crater]

Play med differently then
I feel that’s an issue with players

[inner haven]

And jeopardize my team chance of winning? cmon bruh

[whole smelt]

Honestly what's better the cerberus or the model

[weak kernel]

they're both solid, depends on what you're looking for, rifles are better rn

[sleek tide]

Maybe the double barrel with dash (when used with a good player)

But rifles are part of the meta ues

[whole smelt]

I do play the double barrel sometimes and I can tell you that gun does nothing to a heavy most of the times 💔

But with the right build yea its good

[sleek tide]

Well it depends on how much of the spread hits the heavy

Bc the double barrel either does a stupid amount of dmg or like no dmg

[winter jay]

You can 2 shot heavy. Most of the people who complain about the db are heavy mains

[weak kernel]

it's great against heavy if you get the ambush and land both shots- like half of the balance discussion is people mad about how good it is at killing heavies (if it can't kill heavies well it's one of the worst weapons in the game)

[whole smelt]

Reallyy huh well I only really play light on team death match anyway

[weak kernel]

it's better suited to cashout where you can just sit near the objective and make people come to you but yeah

[whole smelt]

Personally I like the matter more it but the double barrel feels more nice to hit shots with but its also one of the best ones the light has

But again light has ok health so you really gotta now how to use it well

[thorn siren]

Embark I'm begging you

[sleek tide]

This guy has a point

But absolute uses up more of the scope

And people NEED as much of the scope as possible for best game play

[wet current]

Why wont Embark nerf Light's weapons? Sniper is way too overpowered for a light weapon and M11 does way too fast of a ttk

[whole smelt]

Sniper is sooo annoying on power shift

[sudden pewter]

Agreed, Embark should remove light

[deep karma]

Do you think it's overpowered outside of Powershift? Ex: in Ranked Tournament someone brings a Sniper and it feels like it's too powerful.

[weak kernel]

*medium

[sudden pewter]

You jest surely

[weak kernel]

it is genuinely puzzling to me to hear "light shuts down the fun in this game" while ignoring the class that takes the same gadgets every round, has the most traditional playstyle and is good because he can melt you cross-map with good aim

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1393085421482672138/speechmemified_pasteimage.gif

[weak kernel]

but that's u

[still magnet]

Medium mains are hypocrits that have a 200 DPS Fcar with 35m effective range run jumppad defib every game but bitch about sword and other things

[hoary patio]

The only issue with sword is dash+sword other then that I’m fine with the damage being buffed now 105 lunge makes sword crap 120 would’ve been a better nerf

[silver hull]

the finals

[peak hinge]

Sword didn’t need a nerf in the first place. The current level of dash synergy is literally required for it to be viable.

[hardy dust]

The only issue with sword is people not bothering to learn how to counter it and just asking for nerfs instead. It shouldbe never been touched in the first place.

[still magnet]

Any chuck enthusiasts here that can tell me the exact HP/S Chuck heals

[sudden pewter]

Iirc it’s 20 per second, less than a bar

[still magnet]

It feels like it’s % based sometimes cause on light it feels slow and heavy faster even thoe it isn’t

[sudden pewter]

I mean Light has less health overall so it feels faster than it would for Heavy and Medium

The Healthcare Sphere takes Heavies reset from 16s to around 11s which is huge though(varies depending on the severity of wounds but still impactful)

[still magnet]

I am saying heavy feels faster

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/snail-gif-18032872

If you have a homie feel free to test it in the practice range, I’ve never had the opportunity to actively look at my health regen when near an Orb when I’m not playing Heavy

Definitely tell me the results, if it’s % based I’ll eat my shorts

[dry talon]

how does the pike do more dmg than the rpg per shot

[weak kernel]

cuz having a secondary weapon you can whip out to do a chunk of bonus burst damage is really really strong in this game and when it killed light in one shot it was a little fucked up (hilarious)

[limpid mortar]

Thats a crazy thing to say

[weak kernel]

the truthnuke is that medium has been the fucked up dishonest meta pick and light has mostly just been a scrubkiller for most of the game's history

(i don't actually want medium removed)

[limpid mortar]

I dont understand why everyone has a class they hate i mean i enjoy all classes and really believe they are pretty well balanced and different enough

I think i see what you mean though

[weak kernel]

most of my yapping is reactionary tbh, i don't have a problem with medium existing and being strong, just rubs me the wrong way when people dive in saying "actually we need to make the disparity between light and medium even wider because it annoys me when i die fast"

peak cerb was fucked up, pike was/is fucked up, defib/medigun was annoying at peak, but having strong ranged dps and support options is fine. I even think medium's support has probably been a little overnerfed

[limpid mortar]

The ppl who complain about this are the light main wanting more hp or am i wrong?

[hoary patio]

There’s only a few ways to counter the dashes glitch lock bolt winch and mines. When you play heavy and do not use winch or mines your screwed pretty much because for whatever reason sword dash can glide through areas and that totally seems fair. Now if you carry winch which is 1 of 2 ways to close the distance but the complainers want to nerf the crap out of winch when in fact it is fine where it is at.

[marble vortex]

GOO GUN WORKS

can dash if ur gooed js

cant

[weak kernel]

dunno 🤷

[sinful shore]

Anything that outguns my fcar for any reason should be nerfed pronto tbh

[carmine flower]

Do any one knows how to get free multibucks

[weak kernel]

oh i don't like demat either but I have no idea what you'd even be able to do to that

[limpid mortar]

Did you try the seasonal email?

[carmine flower]

Yes

[weak kernel]

do you still get multibucks for advancing in rank in world tour?

[carmine flower]

Yep

I just need 25mb to buy battle pass

[limpid mortar]

Idk if there are any orher way except wt then

Ig you're registered?

[carmine flower]

U mean instagram

[limpid mortar]

No with the embark id

[carmine flower]

Yeah

I have done with the code one

[limpid mortar]

You can obly do it once and i did it a while ago so i forgot

[carmine flower]

What is obly?

[limpid mortar]

Only* mb

[carmine flower]

Oh

[limpid mortar]

You can always ask for a friend to give you the bp and give him next season

[carmine flower]

Yes but there are like out of mb

Is there any other way

[limpid mortar]

I dont believe so sorry

[sudden pewter]

Playing world tour, seasonal BP, and signing up for the marketing emails which generally sends you an email with goodies once per season

[carmine flower]

Done with this all

[carmine flower]

Well Thanks for advising

[limpid mortar]

You welcome

[silver bay]

what are some big brain sledgehammer builds

[hardy dust]

3/4 heavy specs counter sword, good aim and positioning counters sword. Rpg and lockbolt both counter sword. Heavy's best weapons counter sword (minigun only if you're revved up, but if you're playing minigun right that shouldn't be an issue). The issue is with people simply not being good and getting outskilled, but blaming it on the weapon instead of their lack of skill.

[weak kernel]

finals really occupies this weird space where it's an arcade shooter that's too volatile to be competitive but often too thinky for arcade shooter players

ur like "just don't pick every fight you don't have to in this game" and they're like "no"

reflects pretty well on the game that it's as popular as it is despite that imo

[west trout]

the thinky part of my brain is "how to counter dual blades"

[weak kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/dyingaliengif-spongebob-brain-gif-23315488

my brain when the challenge before me is "don't put yourself in front of the spear/flamethrower and whiff all of your shots"

[royal pier]

Rework most of the hitscans to do less body shot damage, but increase the headshot multiplier to roughly make up for it.

You wanna brag about needing to aim? Prove you actually can.

[hardy dust]

Why bother making the majority of weapons in the game worse and harder to use?

[sudden pewter]

Yeah that’s definitely not the way to go about it

[hardy dust]

That's basically the same as just increasing the recoil of everything. It just makes things less fun to use.

[sudden pewter]

In a perfect world melee would still suffer at range, but be powerful enough when in range to be viable, but not so oppressive they can’t be outplayed

“Strong in CQC but not so strong it’s an instawin”

Contradictory wishes yes but that’s on Embark for introducing melee into the ecosystem.

Hopeful that the melee rework isn’t a shitshow 🙏
Ideally everyone would walk away happy but I doubt that’ll be the case

[steel trellis]

Should add a 50 cal BFG sniper for heavys

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shoo-away-gif-13653609800890535042

[placid slate]

All of the specs actually counter sword, melee can't hit through mesh anymore

[marble bone]

nahhhh i wanna stick people and get some sick killsss🤓

[marble bone]

tryna get some sick sticky kills like halo 🔥

[nimble dew]

Guys which medium weapon should i use for world tour at around plat

[sudden pewter]

FCAR is always a fantastic choice

[wispy sapphire]

Is the Cerberus as bad as everyone tells me? They say I'm literally inting the game if I use that weapon, is it that bad?

[sudden pewter]

It’s not as good as it used to be, yeah. And there’s better options for sure. But you’re not throwing if you use it.

[nimble dew]

I am not a huge fan of the horizontal recoil

[sudden pewter]

Revolver is a top tier choice if you’re competent at popping grapes

[nimble dew]

I like revolver but i dont hit enough headshots ig

Im no ruby that hits every shot headshot lmao

I can return to revolver i guess, its nice weapon

[nimble dew]

Also do u have any tips on demat mastery? I am quite new to bi honest

[sudden pewter]

I mean, it’s good at just about everything. You can use it to:

• Chase
• Retreat
• Push
• Stall
• Move

Not much you can do to improve with it aside from thinking on the fly and deciding how best you can use it at any given moment

[nimble dew]

Okay i see

[sudden pewter]

I mean there’s the obvious moves:

• Dematting the floor above you when you see an enemy run up stairs
• Dematting a wall when an enemy throws goo to block an entryway
• Dematting the floor underneath a cashout station to stall steals from enemy teams

[nimble dew]

Yeah i do the last 2 quite often, the first one is a good one yeah

[sudden pewter]

On Kyoto there’s actually hidden rooms inside buildings only accessible to the demat where you can safely hide and reset. (Unless a savvy gamer has a red barrel or a sledge)

[nimble dew]

Lol i don't like kyoto too much to play on

Not good enough with pike to perform well on it

[sudden pewter]

I’m in a love/hate situationship with the model, very satisfying but also inconsistent(chalking that up to S7 server issues)

[nimble dew]

I feel like im shooting through ppl when using model, and im used to reload abit when using such weapons, but model animation is very long

[sudden pewter]

Yeah the reload is the worst thing about it

[nimble dew]

Damage is solid but my hitrate sucks on it

I perform better with cl40 lol, such a dumb spam weapon

Should i run revolver with or without scope? I see alot of ppl running without

[sudden pewter]

I’ve ran it with basic irons for a very long time, I’ve only ran a scope on it a few times so far and I’m not sure if I prefer it or the irons yet

[hardy dust]

Depends on preference, but some skins have worse irons

[sudden pewter]

Some revolver skins are definitely pay to lose

The snub noses look so sick though…

[hardy dust]

I have the one with the cool animations and I can confidently say its pay to lose cuz you end up spamming inspect and being less aware of your surroundings

Also the irons arent great but I have red dot on it

[sudden pewter]

I’m hoping in the future we can customize our sights a bit, even something as simple as an outline would be killer

[swift cradle]

It's not necessarily op. But it does have the ability to make or break fights in ways that no other gadget can do.

The problem is making it a spec just guts the heal beam defib combination. Which is one of medium most unique identities imo. And medium already struggles with standing out rn.

Also the idea that players will think more if it gets changed is absurd. Current defib objectively puts the player in a worse position and players will still immediately defib the first chance they get. Even if you're in the open with 3 players watching you respawn.

I think something should change, but also gutting it is unfun. Unfortunately, as long as it's useful. It won't change most player's mindset.

Imo, maybe glitches should be buffed. Or at least the silhouette should be vulnerable to glitch grenades.

[nimble dew]

Okay

Is there any iron sight skin u prefer?

[sudden pewter]

I’d like to see the option for players to decline a defib during the revive process. Ideally it would incentivize mediums to take your statue to a safe place which would help them out in the long-run

IMO defibs are fine, from what I see many of the gripes with defib comes from the mediums wielding them. Revive sickness is great 👍

[hardy dust]

Any of them with the default irons, although I usually use red dot anyways

[nimble dew]

Ah ok

Time to become revolver main 😱 😱

[dim tiger]

adding like 1 second of invulnerability as part of revive sickness would alleviate a lot of the issues with mistimed defibs, though i could see an argument against it 🤷‍♂️

[sudden pewter]

There already is invuln…

[muted condor]

How do people not know this

[sudden pewter]

🤷‍♂️

We are here to educate, not belittle for lack of knowledge. That is the Heavy way

[whole egret]

Deployable fan or wind turbine to blow away gas and flames and contestants

[elder fox]

I see your point. I like the revive sickness as well, but I feel it almost makes the defibs too underpowered in comparison to the utility the newer gadgets and old ones get. I feel a slightly shorter ability or gadget cooldown might help. The lack of ability to escape once defibbed makes them pretty worthless unless you are in a safe place to begin with. If we are just defaulting to a manual revive in a safe place, then why have them? Trying to play devil's advocate for a minute, it does kinda make sense. I am usually the victim to bad defibs, and just 1 more second could make the difference of possible survival, but still give plenty of time for the enemy to deny the revive quickly. Sorry for the paragraph, i just joined and was just talking about the defibs with my friends.

[faint steppe]

Defib is still a must pick and doesn't need a buff. It's still incredibly valuable to just circumvent the insanely long standard revive.

[keen turtle]

Why is the pike suddenly so prevalent?

[sudden pewter]

The sickness is in place to prevent medium revive trains. It’s definitely not a must pick like some claim but it’s a very powerful gadget but being able to instantly use gadgets out of a revive would certainly make it one

[sinful shore]

If any weapon outguns my fcar for any reason ever it needs a nerf pronto tbh, honestly just remove it from the game fr

[keen turtle]

If balancing is cyclical we'll soon be back to fcar being the goto

[inner haven]

Am not saying to gut it. Am just saying there should be more counterplay against it

[elder fox]

i never said instant. definitely not

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/850448260434624573/1319229600382980146/caption.gif

[inner haven]

Can we all also thank embark for adding heal to the other class thereby ruining the identity of the class even more. I think what embark will eventually do with the class is make it a middle ground between heavy & light and gut the support identity

[keen turtle]

Pre-defib nerfs were a dark time. MMM revive trains. Pre-heal beam nerf as well. I still hate seeing it even if it's more manageable now

[hardy dust]

Ever since it got buffed above 50 dmg its been the best weapon in the game

[sudden pewter]

The Medium is the cornerstone support class. The other classes can have support items but Medium shouldnt be overshadowed.

The Healing Emitter is perfect, it matches Heavies defensive capabilities and isn’t so strong it negates a Medium using a HealBeam.

The H+ Infuser on the other hand.

[silver bay]

chat what are some big brain sledgehammer builds

[west osprey]

no brain required to use it

[swift cradle]

I think that's a very reasonable option tbh.

[swift cradle]

The weaknesses itself are part of the counterplay. Revive sickness exists, respawn is noticeable and the player is at half health. Idk what screams shoot me more than that.

Being able to glitch sillouettes to stop a revive might be nice too. But then again, the strategy is to do it beforehand anyway.

Low key, most players dealing with defib, just aren't doing enough to stop it at this point.

If you want defib to be less effective, kill or glitch the medium before it happens.

Even if they get it, he shouldn't be winning a gun fight after a revive..

[wide onyx]

Does anyone think H+ Infuser is still a bit busted?

I sure do.

[void ice]

In a stack yeah but with randoms? It’s aight

[thorn rivet]

YOOOOO

[tall dawn]

Good

[near scroll]

sledge died for winch's sins just like sword died for dash's sins

[wind folio]

https://tenor.com/view/blackbeard-blackbeard-writing-taking-notes-writing-gif-17583038544116987898

[shell sonnet]

Goo gun for movement, then ambush with sledge, dont forget direct hits slow enemies for a moment

You can open holes above a cashout with sledge, and then use gravity cube to lift it up, can also be closed again with goo

Might get some use of pyro mines, place them behind doors and bait people into chasing you

Rpg for finishers/ ranged destruction is usually good and helps rounding this off

[near scroll]

goo gun sledge

[dusk cosmos]

The LH1 feels a bit too much of a broken meta weapon as it has a really fast tap fire and people could use it like it doesn't have any recoil

Every Light's weapons (Excluding LH1, Sniper and Bow) needs to be regulated for a more close combat than being able to plink people from 100m with drop-off damage that doesn't feel like it has any

[clever cloud]

Best meta light build?

[exotic skiff]

93r dash/invis infuser glitch gateway

[clever cloud]

Could i replace the 93r with the xp if the 93r doesn’t work out for me?

[exotic skiff]

XP is still good yes you asked for meta so I told the best guns rn

Xp/ARN/93r/DB are good weapons for light rn

[obsidian gust]

swap invis with glitch

[clever cloud]

Ah alr bet thanks

[exotic skiff]

Pls read

[plucky spade]

gaming community☹️

[plucky spade]

bro said good aim and positioning, are you kidding me rn

[plush harbor]

lmao what

[ashen hawk]

@sleek pecan most "I hate CL40 so I must shit on anyone who defends it even if the play it or not" ass comment

its hillarious how u ppl cant cope with a fckng nerfed grenade launcher and now have to whine about it and call other ppl who support it as "losers" or "noobs" or "overly dependent" without knowing shit.

continue playing with xp54/famas ig, itd suit to what u said

[sudden pewter]

[weak kernel]

CL-40 isn't even the medium weapon that counters light...

[sudden pewter]

I mean, it’s fantastic at killing Lights

Honestly my favorite flyswatting weapon

[weak kernel]

slower kill than any other ranged medium weapon means i'm happy to fight it on light

[sleek pecan]

Woah I guess I struck a nerve there

[weak kernel]

except for model at the moment anyway

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, it’s counterable 100% but the average light isn’t that good

Likely why it’s such a painpoint as of late after the Cerberus nerfs. Lots of mediums swapped to using it instead and now suddenly it’s an issue

[sleek pecan]

I think it’s an issue because it’s being used so much to the point ur bound to see at least 1 or 2 a game

[weak kernel]

it's been noted before that the wider finals community is kinda slow to figure out meta, it's better to give shit time than to instantly throw out a reactionary nerf when something anecdotally seems a certain way

like didn't people think the famas was cooked and then visual recoil was removed and it rocketed to top 2 without any "real" statistical changes

[sleek pecan]

Well yeah visual recoil being removed is a pretty big change

[muted flint]

Down with the CL lmao

[sudden pewter]

The dust should be allowed to settle before sweeping changes are made

[weak kernel]

sure, but another example, CL-40 hasn't actually buffed or been changed in awhile. It was "fine" for a long time, the only thing that's brought it out is the cerb and 1887 being nerfed to the point where it's better as a "shotgun" in some cases

[muted flint]

We need a sword buff it was destroyed

[placid slate]

sword would be shit without dash

both light melees are actually pretty shit without dash

[sleek pecan]

Exactly my point I’ve always thought the cl pretty good but I didn’t think much of it because it was kinda rare to see one in game but now that it’s so common it’s not only really annoying to play the game but they are almost unbeatable if they have half a brain

A medium with cl camping on a roof while his teammates are gunning you down

[muted flint]

I miss old sword days

[placid slate]

sword didnt die due to a specs sins, it died because the community random started complaining about it out of nowhere

[sleek pecan]

I had like 2 weeks of fun on the sword then it got nerfed 🥲

[muted flint]

Literally I don’t understand why they had to nerf it to the ground

[sleek pecan]

I can see why they nerfed it

[muted flint]

Well ik why they nerfed it but they didn’t need to do it that dirty

[sleek pecan]

It’s similar to the cl both are counterable but the average player doesn’t know how to counter them

[weak kernel]

cl is at best annoying by the nature of being a medium weapon that doesn't do instant damage in a game where FCAR/Famas/Pike exist. taking screen shake from splash and being spammed is annoying, being tracked by anyone decent is lethal at close and long range alike

[placid slate]

shit had a very slow ttk, didnt need to cop a nerf to make it even slower

[sudden pewter]

Melee in general has suffered for the sins of the playerbase

I haven’t seen a sword in more than a month and it hurts to see weapon diversity tank

[muted flint]

Feel like sword is the least used weapon now

[sleek pecan]

Another thing about the cl is how powerful it is when attacking a cash out it can clear a room of gadgets and players with ease however it does get counter by aps the medium could be running data reshaper and the aps is now a table

[weak kernel]

what's funny about sword is that bad players still manage to get ruined by sword because people just panic when they get jumped by low-aim weapons like that, it's why flamethrower still catches complaints despite also being wack

[sudden pewter]

Flamethrower is perfectly fine as is and we will still get players asking for nerfs or buffs

And then some weirdos asking for it to have an ultimate or shoot rockets or fireballs and other nonsense

[muted flint]

Flamethrower is in a good place it’s just a no skill weapon pretty much

[sudden pewter]

And that’s perfectly fine. Not every weapon needs to have nuance

[muted flint]

Yup

[winter jay]

goo gun makes it more interesting to play imo

[muted flint]

Ran into a flamethrower using goo gun last night lmao I wanted to cry

[winter jay]

it feels really mean i wont lie. very fun though

[muted flint]

So true

Just gotta do the goofy strats

[placid slate]

goo gun makes everything minus sledge more interesting to play

[sudden pewter]

With how many people complain about stuns or mobility limiters I’m surprised Goo Gun doesn’t have its own faction of haters

[muted flint]

Think that’s slowly starting to change because I’ve noticed it becoming more popular

[sudden pewter]

Players on their way to complain in #👂┇game-feedback once something becomes popular even though it’s been “fine” for an extended period of time:

[muted flint]

Yeah that’s why the sword got hit so bad with that nerf cause a lot of people didn’t use it then it became popular so people started complaining big time (yes it needed a damage nerf but not by that much)

[sudden pewter]

Cannot wait for people to complain about the Barricade rework 30s after it drops and nobody has had time to adapt or learn how to use it

[near scroll]

well yea dash is definitely sword's strongest spec, but the fact you say sword would be unplayable without it actually says a lot about the balance of sword and dash
if sword was stronger basekit like longer basekit lunge distance and actually threatening damage values it wouldn't have to rely on dash to do literally anything lol

grapplesword used to be playable because of the sword's burst damage and the albeit limited evasiveness of basekit lunges. if you picked correct engagements (engagements you couldn't take if running dash bc verticality or w.e else) by leveraging grapple, you could then leverage the decent TTK and decent-ish mobility of lunges on a presumably not 100% operational player (wether that be not full health, reloading, spec CD or w.e) to get valuable picks. the playstyle was different but not unviable.

now that sword can't take duels cuz bad dmg you need dash charges to both enter and escape fights else you just die before anyone else does

[lofty venture]

Its damage is in an excellent place, but the fire DOT after L1 stops needs to be decreased just a little bit to prevent the mindless suiciding to kill a bunch of enemies after you've died.

[sudden pewter]

There’s a big painpoint with weapons “needing” certain specs to be viable or powerful enough to compete and I don’t think we’ll have an answer for it anytime soon

Sword needed to be toned down 💯
But what they did was a bit too much imo

It was very strong against lights and medium but struggled against Heavy. Which is absolutely fine, Lights shouldn’t be trying to 1v1 Heavies head-on anyhow. But now it even has issues securing Mediums which I take issue with

[muted flint]

They should have dropped the damage by like 20 or 30 damage

[sudden pewter]

My biggest complaint with the sword was being able to drag the sword around during a lunge, so even if you missed you could still secure a hit.
(That and charging a lunge while cloaked & phantom strikes)

[lofty venture]

Yep. The CL-40 GL is extremely overpowered on its skill-to-reward ratio. While it might not be as good as the FCAR/Famas/Pike at high elo, it really hurts and curtails the use of non-meta weapons. For example, a one of the highest skill requirement weapons, the .357 Revolver, requires 3 body shots to kill a light, 4 body shots to kill a medium, 5 body shots to kill a heavy; meanwhile one of the easiest weapon to use in the game with its massive 50 cm aim assist splash cone, the CL-40, only 2 splash body shots to kill a light, 3 splash body shots to kill a medium, 4 splash body shots to kill a heavy....that's just so mindboggling messed up from a skill-to-reward standpoint.

[austere lodge]

is 50 kills with dagger a world record?

[muted condor]

Iv seen enough nerd heavy

[austere lodge]

nerf heavy def

[muted condor]

Remove mesh shield and dome now!

[weak kernel]

sledge's problem was that it has literally always relied upon the rest of heavy to be viable. on day 1 heavy's obscene gadget damage output carried it, and after that got nerfed it was shit until winch came along and then it got nerfed into irrelevancy because it was too good with winch

and I don't know how you fix that problem, IMO sledge deserves to be at least solid, it's a neat playstyle

[muted flint]

What’s funny is I see the sledge way more now than I did before it got nerfed makes no sense to me

[muted condor]

Winch has fucked over heavy so hard

Instead of fixing winch embark has decided to balance the entire class around it

[sudden pewter]

I’m bias to winch, I’m not entirely against giving it a Windup but if it’s going to lose its reactivity(namely during a firefight) it needs to gain something equally powerful

[wheat hamlet]

agreed

[sudden pewter]

I threw out the idea that the Winch could be reworked into what is essentially a spec lockbolt. Heavy acts as the Anchor and whoever is winched can’t move beyond 10m or so of the Heavy for a duration

It’ll still hinder hyper mobile Lights which is mainly what I personally use it for, and if we still want the pull we can make it so Heavy has to reel in whatever is caught on the hook be it gradually it all at once

Otherwise it would remain the same for how it interacts with props/cashout station

Also if we’re getting a windup for winch please god add skins for it since it’ll be something that needs to be pulled out 🙏

[silver bay]

you use winch on a light and they just immediately dash away lol

[sudden pewter]

I generally don’t use melee so if I’m winching a light they have maybe 1 charge left and if they use it to make space they get gunned down

Hell, I’ll take losing the reactivity of Winch if it meant I could embed the hook in a wall and pull a chunk out. Imagine playing light and using one of those little rat holes to escape a Heavy only to see the Heavy continue to give chase and it literally pulled the wall apart to continue the hunt

Could be neat for making little kill holes in walls but I’m not sure if that would be healthy for the game long-term

[lofty venture]

#👂┇game-feedback message

@ashen hawk

Do you by chance play on controller? If you do, I wonder if the aim assist is link to the player model, not the models predicted impact point (PIP). Just curious how Embark handles controller since I help designed the spaceship aim-assist system for another game, Star Citizen that does use a PIP system.

Maybe the fact that you have to lead your grenade shots is causing your input to fall out of the controller aim assist FOV cone making it difficult to aim at times? This actually was as problem low velocity projectile weapons can suffer from.

[halcyon zenith]

so I just figured out that the AKM does 2 less body shot damage and 3 less headshot damage than the FCAR
But the fire rate of the FCAR is 60RPM slower and has a smaller mag

WHY WOULD ANYONE USE THE FCAR OVER THE AKM

[peak hinge]

Because FCAR is better in the hands of players good at the game:

• Longer falloff range is the single most important stat
• Higher damage per bullet is better than higher RPM/mag size, don’t miss your shots

[sudden pewter]

FCAR is more popular than AKM afaik

[turbid locust]

I'm having trouble finding a new weapon to use for the Medium

[deep karma]

@peak hinge wrt your #👂┇game-feedback comment, I believe Spear secondary has always been cancellable with the various wheels, for the Spin x2 > QM combo on M here for example.

[peak hinge]

Emote wheel canceling is pretty clearly not an intended method of doing so though, similar bugs for other things have been patched before often.

I meant it should be natively possible to cancel the secondary attack with things like primary attack or quick melee or so on.

Without having to use things like emote wheel cancelling.

[sudden pewter]

Spear should 2 shot Lights and the secondary should be cancelable

[indigo nexus]

spear does not need to two shot lights with its left click.

[sudden pewter]

Spear should impale Lights so I can light a fire beneath them and eat them

[silver mortar]

Spear should be chuckable

We need 360 no scope Spear montages

[sudden pewter]

Suggesting the addition of a ranged option to melee weapons would have you exiled from my village

[boreal elm]

Wait that'd be insanely raw lmao, imagine the right click just winds up an almighty javelin toss

[deep karma]

Hmm they probably didn't want Spin x2 > LMB for the very long range quick kill on M, I'm sure it would be fine though.

[sudden pewter]

You’ve already begun tainting the population Ishallah

https://tenor.com/view/stone-casting-throw-stones-gif-17442163

[silver mortar]

In defiance, I suggest we should also have a melee option for ranged weapons.

Bayonet Repeater
Bayonet Repeater

[silver mortar]

Can't wait for Appoh to Chuck a Spear through Gateway directly into a Light patiently waiting for a Vault to drop

[muted condor]

Duel blades

[muted condor]

I do thinks it’s funny everyone that doesn’t play the spear a lot wants a throw but everyone that loves it thinks it’s a really bad idea

(It’s a really bad idea)

[brazen grove]

I stopped playing Medium, Now I play light and Heavy

[muted condor]

You stopped playing the most boring class that has lost all identity and is now just an over glorified revive machine and cash box dropper?!

[sudden pewter]

I love how Medium feels to play

Still has support options they’re just overshadowed by the H+

[muted condor]

I love only have one viable spec!

I love all my viable guns being the most bland cod guns in the game!

I also love eating plan wheat bread

[brazen grove]

No, I don't like how Medium has far less DPS and a higher TTK than Light and Heavy

If you think I give a shit of whether or not guns are "bland", you're dead wrong

[sudden pewter]

Mediums specs aren’t bland, not unviable either. It’s just the demat is so strong the other aren’t picked as much

[brazen grove]

Who tf uses Demat, I use the Guardian Turret

[sudden pewter]

I still rock HealBeam when there’s a Heavy on my team

[muted condor]

Being usable and being fun is very different

[sudden pewter]

Fun is subjective tho

[muted condor]

If I wanted to run medium, AR, jump pad, goo nade, defib I’d go play cod

Stale ass class

[brazen grove]

I use Guardian Turret, AK, Gas and Pyro nade along with the Defib and I fucking love it

[muted condor]

Wheat bread

[sudden pewter]

I run FCAR/DEFIB/Double Mobility

Definitely vanilla but its still a flavor some savor

[muted condor]

We got swords, mini guns, bows, grenade launchers, throw knives, and flamethrowers and mfs will still run a AR

[lofty venture]

I kind of despise Embark's toxic designs that's pushed on each class:

• Light: The first laugh: (Cloak)
• Medium: A second laugh (Defibs)
• Heavy: The last laugh (Charge and slam and RPG)

[sudden pewter]

FCAR feel good, although I also have a soft spot for the 1887 even with its dogshit reload

[wheat hamlet]

I love the feel of the 1887, I however don't love the fact I shoot people with it and i feel like 70 percent of the time it feels like ive thrown sand at them

[muted condor]

It feels great until you’re out of ammo and the enemy light is still half health even though you hit every shot lmao

[peak hinge]

With what weapon

[peak hinge]

They should add a spinny reload animation like they did with Akimbos

[sudden pewter]

All I want is for the shorter 1887 skins to have animation options

[peak hinge]

I’m still mad the model skins S4 battle pass and bonus page didn’t have dough wrangler animations even though they visually are literally the shorter versions just like dough wrangler is

[muted condor]

1887

[peak hinge]

Model feels solid if you can consistently land shots imo

It’s finally balanced, took a ton of fucking nerfs to fix it

[muted condor]

It’s fucking trash

[sand roost]

Cerberus is a little bit over nerfed in my opinion. I think it should be buffed so that the fire tick can stack (but the fire dmg should be reduced by 1 per tick if that happens) or make it a reload a bit faster.

[muted condor]

You shouldn’t have to animation cancel a weapon to actually play it

It’s just bad game design

[sudden pewter]

The reloads are super punishing yeah

[muted condor]

The 1887 falls into the same category as the duel blades for me, they are a really cool and fun weapon but are almost unusable and annoying to play because embark is to lazy to fix them

They know them being in their current state won’t effect their bottom line or reputation with streamers so they don’t care

[steep wagon]

G

[patent meadow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1m7lgs2/why_wont_they_just_give_me_my_fcar_a_something/

[uneven kindle]

The post below yours plus:

• easier to control recoil, AKM has a weird S pattern while FCAR is a sharper but fairly straightforward pull down and left type of recoil
• better hipfire

[hardy dust]

Model is decent but a tiny buff would be good

A reload buff would probably be best imo, since anything that directly touches its killing power can break balance pretty easily

[deep karma]

@vocal stone If you interrupt the KS after shooting but before the pump completes by using Winch, then the the KS has to pump once the winch completes.

You can delay the winch until after the pump fully is done to resolve it.

[vocal stone]

Oh, thanks, I'll try it

[wraith anchor]

They should add a mounted turret ability for heavies

[deep karma]

If you shoot, then begin the pump, then press the reload button shortly after the pump starts and you interrupt that with Winch, you can then shoot again after the Winch completes much earlier too.

In practice it looks like this. You won't actually see the reload go off, but if you do this you can winch a little bit sooner and still get the shot off after.

[vocal stone]

Thanks a lot for demonstration bro. Didn't even knew about this trick. I'm in a sort of love-hate relationship with KS

[sudden pewter]

Aren’t we all 😔

[deep karma]

Big burst damage that is inconsistent but sometimes you're just nasty with it, yeah. Fun weapon.

[sudden pewter]

I wish it didn’t have the hipfire penalty

At least then I could fully blame my poor marksmanship

[frosty jasper]

What will change for tomorrow?

[sudden pewter]

Shak animation release

[sudden pewter]

<@&1012034066876473384> Send him to the principals office and have him expelled!

Thanks 💋

[clever cloud]

What’s a light gun that u should use for shits and giggles (no melees)

[silver mortar]

for just messing around?
throwing knife and bow

[clever cloud]

Bet thanks

[spice depot]

ola queruidios amigos como es eso de usar pistolas yo soy d la fbi pq soy yhte bear vlkaertglkzdhwl{bzedf{ñysd{GRTu

[sudden pewter]

You shoot them.

[silver mortar]

lmk how it goes. if I'm winning a game by a landslide amount and feel bad for the enemy team, I pick a weapon that I'm bad at to get some practice in.

[sudden pewter]

TDM exists for that

[clever cloud]

Throwing knives are pretty good went 16-7

[silver mortar]

I don't enjoy TDM tho.
Would rather just play preferred mode with preferred equipment, but experiment when its extra inconsequential.

[heavy ivy]

i know they are one of my favs, sniper is fun and satisfying

[sudden pewter]

My henchmen are enroute to your location.

[silver mortar]

wtf my Holtow Insurance can't cover that wtf

[plush harbor]

s5*. also no the stock is different

[chilly schooner]

what pairs best with the lockbolt?

[sudden pewter]

C4

[pliant steppe]

does someone know where i can find the magnification levels for all the scopes and weapons’ iron sights?

[spark igloo]

predicting the dagger changes to be -20 backstab angle and 70 damage butterknife

predicting the spear changes to be winch throw and cancels removed in favour of +5 damage on the left click

predicting the sword changes to be a full reversion with buffs to all stats

predicting the sledge changes to give heavy dash and buffs to all stats

[clever cloud]

Best heavy spear build?

[brittle yoke]

winch spear lockbolt dome rpg and any map with a void

[wide onyx]

Couldn't you winch cancel in a anti grav and send someone flying up?

[hardy dust]

You can send people flying with just winch and spear

[spark igloo]

winch spear lockbolt rpg dome

[clever cloud]

What about best light loadout for season 7

[spark igloo]

something along the lines of dash 93r gateway glitchnade h+

idk light loadout can change depending on your match ups

and cloak can work as an alternative spec

definitely a lot more viable compared to heavy and medium which have been locked to almost identical loadouts for like 4 seasons

basically every light gun is at least viable (this doesnt include the gimmicks like bow or tk or the melees like sword and dagger)

[ashen hawk]

Easiest thing to say after u give the most L take on #👂┇game-feedback

[ashen hawk]

is 93r even that good? ive not seen that many ppl play with it and my dumb ass hasnt even unlocked it yet even tho i have 5000vrs

is it a good time to try it out

[near scroll]

goo gun or riot

[spark igloo]

probably the best light weapon rn

it got 3 extra bullets so it's main downside of low ammo is less relevant

[spark igloo]

what

[near scroll]

you heard me

grab your goo gun or i riot

[spark igloo]

oh

[near scroll]

[near scroll]

if no melee buffs in 5 minutes i riot

[spark igloo]

well I was right

every melee got like a few extra cms of sweep range

and sword got flat hard buffed LOL

[void ice]

no super lunge tho so kinda feels ass to use

[placid slate]

They're getting rid of all tech, spin cancelling is fucked

[void ice]

WHAT THE FUCK IS SKILL EXPRESION

[spark igloo]

all things considered sword super dash is like the easiest thing ever

[void ice]

bit hard to do when they got rid of it

[spark igloo]

and literally just made u immortal sometimes because their netcode cant handle things moving at any velocity about that of a heavy walking

[rigid sparrow]

Guys you won't believe it

KS-23 got a buff

[silver pollen]

gonna have to relearn the doomstick

hitscan is easier tho

[velvet nova]

In what way?

[silver pollen]

it's now a hitscan up to 25m

[velvet nova]

Epiiic

[silver pollen]

then it turns into a projectile, like light sr

[velvet nova]

One of my favorite weapons

[rigid sparrow]

FINALLY NO BS PREDICTION SHOT

My light point and click adventure game has begun

[velvet nova]

🔥

[stoic garden]

@velvet nova you will be crushed by sledgehammers

[lavish swallow]

Yay sword is complete dogshit now thanks embark. Time to find a new game.

[misty elbow]

soo, are they done with melee buffs or are they still working on it?

[void ice]

sword now feels even worse nto use!

[pastel whale]

im with u man

[steel knoll]

thank you embark i dont have to deal with busted light weapons. Time to play more finals

[misty elbow]

funniest part of this is sword is only dog now if you RELIED on the superdash, you can absolutely still combo dash and sword and run well with it

[stoic garden]

thank you embark i dont have to deal with an already terrible light weapon. Time to play more finals

[misty elbow]

i wonder if grapple sword is actually usable now

[steel knoll]

i love you

[stoic garden]

in quick cash anything can work

[stoic garden]

i didn't know you were into me like that... i already have a lover...

[steel knoll]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[velvet nova]

They said they'll start re-buffing the sword since they fixed the super lunge

"we can monitor how well the Sword does and go from there"

[stoic garden]

we'll see some changes in season 9

[misty elbow]

ahh makes sense

what about sledgehammer?

[stoic garden]

in the meanwhile... ANOTHER TRILLION TO MINIGUN

[near scroll]

i'm quite interested in the design lead's note, especially on techs.
tho i must say, please just officialize spear spin cancel already 😭

[velvet nova]

They buffed the range and reliability a little of all melee weapons, idk what they'll do after

[near scroll]

sword changes are pog tho, dashlunge nerf is epic, basekit lunge buffs are epic, and camera lock is epic too
just dunno about the number changes yet cuz it's hard to guesstimate

[stoic garden]

i like how they want melee to be fair and balanced, yet winch exists

[velvet nova]

I think it's better that they do it slowly not to overdo and make people who hate melee frustrated

[near scroll]

check the nameplate buddy

[stoic garden]

? being a heavy main doesn't disqualify me from hating a heavy spec

it's janky and not fun to play against

[placid slate]

Last time they said that it took half a year to get anything out of them

[vernal schooner]

quick melee combos are back

[velvet nova]

They should add wind up time or sth

[near scroll]

check my nameplate, okbuddycontestant

[stoic garden]

bro idc

[near scroll]

well yea obviously that's huge but i need to experience using the new combos in game to see how big of a difference

[velvet nova]

Well at least they did something in the right direction in this update 😊

[placid slate]

I'll have to test it first before assuming it's a good change

[near scroll]

sounds like you must be fun at parties

[velvet nova]

Its mostly buffs instead of nerfs so thats nice

[placid slate]

I also don't like that they are going to remove all techs from the game

[stoic garden]

we gotta see nullifier in action 🛂

[placid slate]

Making melee 1 dimensional is stupid

[velvet nova]

They'll keep the fair ones i guess

[placid slate]

They won't, trust me

[near scroll]

they said in the note they will officialize some of the techs instead of outright removing them. which is the correct way to go about things

officialize spin cancel already you cowards, let me blend em mediums

[stoic garden]

starting with dash lunging

[velvet nova]

Some techs just create a very big skill gap between people who know about it and the ones who dont, and are really hard to balance and make fun to play against

[placid slate]

I don't trust them to not remove bishoping

[near scroll]

they just gotta fix the desync issues, nothing wrong with the concept of bishopping imo

[near scroll]

good. nerf dashlunge buff basekit lunge

(which they did, very epic)

[stoic garden]

nerf techs, buff weapons ☺️

[vernal schooner]

There is a melee character (pyke) in league of legends, he has a chargable hook ability, if button is tapped it makes short hook, after that the longer it held the farther it goes until max distance. Good thing is that both has its uses, short hook for combos, and long for initiation.

[velvet nova]

Would be fun i think

[stoic garden]

wow! looks just like how winch should work

[misty elbow]

feel like thats valid

[near scroll]

winch has needed a windup and less movement lockout since release lol
adding windup also would potentially let embarf compensation buff max range on max windup

[stoic garden]

exactly lmao

[misty elbow]

winch being winch isnt the issue winch having no communication is

[stoic garden]

the clanging of chains is pretty audible, but you have no time to react usually

[near scroll]

yea you have to predict it with all available counters rn

wether it be dash, goo gun or barricade or w.e u gotta predict em, winch projectile is just too quick and windup animation too fast/unreadable

[stoic garden]

is goo gun a stun gun with 20 ammo?

[near scroll]

eh, too different

tho i must say if anything should be changed about goo gun it's repeated goo locks, most toxic aspect of goo gun

[stoic garden]

yea it's pretty nasty

it's basically a stun gun in that case

[near scroll]

but yea if you goo blob a winch heby at the correct time the winch projectile will collide with goo blob that's encasing them and boom, no winch

[stone sparrow]

Finally the ks buff I been wanting now just let me ads it and it’s perfect🥹💜💜💜

[stoic garden]

i wish i could goo all my problems away like that

[near scroll]

real

[stone sparrow]

Valid

[near scroll]

wish i could goo my debt off
that and the unstoppable immortal snail that will kill me if it catches up to me

[stoic garden]

goo gun minigun is the most fun shit i have ever played in my life

[near scroll]

its really good too

[stone sparrow]

Goo gun and pyro mines for me

I like covering rooms in flames

[stoic garden]

i hopped on a quick cash game to test a loadout with it, we were triple heavy goo gun, gooing everything inside a hospital cashout room, we won it without shooting our guns once

[near scroll]

team wide pacifistic win should be a steam achievement ngl

[stoic garden]

lmao

[near scroll]

funniest shit we ever did in this game, istg

[stoic garden]

the two teams just kept trying to kill eachother for a while

then they started teaming and trying to break our goo wall from all sides, without success

[near scroll]

i dunno if it ever happened to you but we ran into a LLM team in WT that had no destruction, and after fruitlessly trying to get through our bunker for like a minute they just gave up and left lmao

[stoic garden]

LMAO

[placid slate]

Isn't the lunge on sword supposed to be like 17m? Because I'm barely hitting people at like 10

[stoic garden]

a friend of mine has a clip of a triple med team with no destruction trying to get inside a cashout room blocked by a barricade

[near scroll]

basekit is 7m superlunge is 17-20m now apperently

[near scroll]

no reshaper no demat? crazy mediums

[placid slate]

Super lunge is just lunge and dash right?

[stoic garden]

they were about to break in by spamming qm and frags, then someone threw them a gas nade and they died

never play without demat, guys

[near scroll]

yes, super lunge, dashlunge, lungedash, whatever u call it

[placid slate]

Because it travels 20m, but the hit ends at 10

[stoic garden]

yea did you want to strike people from 20 meters lmao

[near scroll]

interesting. feel like that's always been the case to an extent but idk how bad it was previously

probs like 15m hitbox out of the 24m dashlunge pre all the nerfs

[placid slate]

Reducing the animation time probably reduced the hit range

[near scroll]

true

[stoic garden]

yes

[near scroll]

interesting. can't wait to get home and try it out

[placid slate]

Still can't fathom how people say sword doesn't need aim either

[near scroll]

it was so disappointing to play it these last patches

[placid slate]

Pretty fucking easy to miss

[near scroll]

cope
also bc 360-ing was a thing so if you missed but was still in range you could instantly correct

[stoic garden]

i... didn't really miss with the lunge ever

and i have shit aim and 30 fps

it was pretty forgiving

[near scroll]

the duration of the hitbox was what made it forgiving

[placid slate]

Mfs be acting like the hitbox was the size of a tunnel, shits the size of your crosshair

[stoic garden]

now it's much less so, hopefully balancing out

[near scroll]

the actual hitbox size of the lunge wasn't ever really that big, just easy to correct if still in range

[stoic garden]

yes

[near scroll]

when they 360'd a dashlunge it kinda was xd

[placid slate]

I wonder if it's straight up quicker to left click a med to death than use right clicks

[near scroll]

yea i'll need to test the new combos, that's what i'm most curious about

[stoic garden]

depends, but you have higher chances of not getting sprayed to death by lunge qm + m1

[near scroll]

one can lunge qm swing a med again, epic
but lunge qm lunge qm no work on heby no more

[placid slate]

Just looked at it, 3 left clicks is faster

Than 2 lunges at least

[stoic garden]

ofc 2 lunges are slower

[near scroll]

you should try lunge qm swing for meds @placid slate

[stoic garden]

indeed

[near scroll]

i don't see a world where initiating a fight with dashlunge is bad tho ngl, feel like people in #⚡┇the-finals-chat are overreacting ngl

[placid slate]

Doesn't work

[near scroll]

wait really??

[placid slate]

2 health left

[near scroll]

oh wow yea 2 hp short

[stoic garden]

that's crazy lmao

[placid slate]

Left click meta

[near scroll]

actually lol

[stoic garden]

cant have shit in the finals

[near scroll]

embarf carefully picking damage numbers on melee weapons so qm combos stay irrelevant

[placid slate]

Left click qm is 128

[misty elbow]

wow.

[placid slate]

Gotta test if it's fast enough to sub out a left click

[near scroll]

idk how realistic it is to just go ham left clicking someone tho ngl

[placid slate]

Holy shit that was fast

[near scroll]

swing qm gadget cancel loop new meta??

tho swings are quite fast idk if gadget cancel helps

[placid slate]

Gotta count the speed but it felt faster maybe?

Aslong as its more than 0.6 seconds saved its better

1.74 seconds, with human error on stopping and starting the stopwatch

[stoic garden]

an ok ttk

[placid slate]

So it could be faster if I get it open on capcut

[stoic garden]

still cheeks for melee but whatever

[near scroll]

then again, surely lunge qm swing qm isn't that much worse

takes a lot more precision to pull off obv but that way you retain the lunge opener

[placid slate]

It'd be slower

Imma pull this up in caput and get the actual time

[near scroll]

yeah ofc but not that much slower i reckon

and you gotta realize in actual gameplay having the damage come from a dashlunge offers many more possibilities on how to engage a fight

[placid slate]

I'd say swing qm swing qm would be viable if it reaches 1.6 seconds or lower

[near scroll]

do share your findings

[bright oracle]

I see theres a balance update.
Whats the hive mind concensus right now?

[night sonnet]

sword got nerfed

[bright oracle]

Again?

[night sonnet]

all other melees buffed

[placid slate]

Ok based on the video, the ttk of m1 qm m1 qm is a whopping 1.18 seconds

This is faster than 1 lunge

[near scroll]

with gadget swapping?

[placid slate]

No

[near scroll]

is it unaffected?

[placid slate]

Keep in mind that the video is 30 frames a second

So 1.18 may be inaccurate?

Not sure it is an accurate measurement

18 frames out of 30

[placid slate]

Nvm it's 1.6 seconds

[near scroll]

ah right

[placid slate]

So it saves about 0.2 seconds

[near scroll]

massive

[placid slate]

12% faster ttk

[mossy ibex]

Why is it that swords are allowed to combo with quick melee attacks for fast kills, but the sledgehammer isn't? There's nothing fair about your balance adjustments.

[placid slate]

Feedback channel is down the hall to the left

[stoic garden]

😰

yes qm definitely allows you to kill combo people yup

[restive plover]

Best weapon is yourself

[void ice]

It cant

[steel knoll]

barely

[night sonnet]

its unusable unless you m1 spam. its just a riot shield without the shield part now. not a sword

[steel knoll]

ive just been in match and everyone AND I DO MEAN EVERYONE was sword light except me

[night sonnet]

press x to doubt. also its poopoo. worse then its last version with bad lunge damage now. this is coming from a 400 hour player who was a sword main

and this isnt just a "no skill sword main opinion" i could get higher kill games not trying with most guns 40+ kills in quick cash easy

[placid slate]

All the sword lights I've seen are just spamming left click, they definitely fucked up the right click

[steel knoll]

"i was could get"

also your admitting that the light guns are a problem because youre dropping 40 bombs "easy"

[night sonnet]

no it was with fcar and famas that was easiest

[night sonnet]

man i got dislexia calm down 💀

[near scroll]

cursed be the man responsible for the spelling of this disability

[night sonnet]

fr

[steel knoll]

sorry bro im beefing for the love of the game

[night sonnet]

nah idc about it alg bro

[steel knoll]

i do still think lights are a problem

[night sonnet]

i agree alot. but the devs are horrible at solving balancing issues rn

[void ice]

just say you cant aim lmao

[night sonnet]

i mean true but also guns are rather unbalanced atm so hard to aim when ttk so high for light weapons

im not gona argue anymore gn

[near scroll]

idk what they meant but one can still find lights problematic design wise even though they personally don't have issues dealing with them

[graceful nova]

KS-23 being hitscan up to 25m? Now the fun really begins

[near scroll]

epic change

[graceful nova]

You know I really appreciate Embark taking all the balance suggestions in along with their own vision.

[exotic skiff]

Why does people are saying sword got nerf when it's actually a huge buff

[steel knoll]

im a sledge main

[void ice]

proves my point ????

[steel knoll]

i like the bonk

[void ice]

me too twin

[timber sparrow]

How does sword rotation lock feel

[static lodge]

They made it so you're pretty much unable to turn while lunging

[muted condor]

So they did a whole lot of yapping and said they cared about melee and made it more viable but proceeded to not actually do anything 👍

Classic embark

Duel blades are still unusable I’ll be back next month to see if these devs actually care at all

[timber sparrow]

I think the sword changes put it in an interesting spot, I would say its a bit better than what it was before the patch

[sick fossil]

i think everything else apart from lunge lock was a good change, doesnt make sense how they went back on what they said was the "issue" with sword

[near scroll]

m1 dmg buff was not a good change ngl

and camera lock is a good idea, 40 is just a little too low probably

[sick fossil]

not really as it makes the general play outside of combat worse. if they dont want people spinning with lunge to hit people they would decrease the hitbox to s4 standards

if they want camera lock it would have to be around 90-120 degrees

[lavish swallow]

yeah, 40 degree lunge is atrocious.

You just get locked into going past them and dying because they dash or slide jump to the side

[sick fossil]

it really seems like they want you to be brainless and use lunge only for movement to get close and spam m1s

[near scroll]

?? if they nerf hitbox but not spinning, then spinning becomes more mandatory cause you're gonna need to correct more missed hits

[sick fossil]

me spinning as hard as i can for refrence

[sick fossil]

spinning didnt help as much in s4 as much as you would believe, s4 sword relied on you being point blank and using dash lunges to to spin around your enemy instead of piercing them

[stiff vine]

can you try and turn side to side?

[near scroll]

sure but saying "if embark doesnt want people to spin they'll keep spinning the same" is silly, you must realize

[sick fossil]

im not talking about spinning like turning your mouse around to hit a 360 area, im talking about spinning around an enemy to stay in their blind spot point blank

[near scroll]

oh. well thats what i was talking about lol

[sick fossil]

thats not the issue players are having with it mostly (according to reddit posts) they seem to be having issue with the fact that the active damage frames last so long and are so frequent that aim doesnt matter as much

[near scroll]

yeah but you abuse those active frames by spinning your cam and thus spinning the hitbox around your player model

[timber sparrow]

I dont mind the rotation lock in concept but they should really consider increasing it to something like 70 to 80 degrees

[sick fossil]

i think around 90-120 would be a golden point so you still have access to 1/4 or 1/3 of your turning radius

[muted halo]

this is perfect for balance, anything more and you will get similar BS like before from the perspective of someone fighting agaisnt sword . the char direction will not aline with the hitbox

[timber sparrow]

in its current state its terrible for balance

[stiff vine]

whats the point of a forward lunge if you can turn mid lunge

[timber sparrow]

just needs an increase to the rotation and it would actually be perfect

[sick fossil]

do you guys not know that lunge doesnt make you turn and you still go in a straight line regardless of lunge lock

[stiff vine]

you dont see any other lunge attacks in all of media and games attack anywhere but foreword

[timber sparrow]

most the people who like it dont play sword

were on the cusp of it being in a perfect spot so ill still take the changes as a win

[muted halo]

most of the people complaining about sword were players playing against it so makes sense right?

[sick fossil]

well currently youve made sword reliant on mouse 1s and lowered it skill ceiling making it even better in the hands of someone who doesnt know how to use it

[muted halo]

considering m2 was the weapon distributing power is expected and no, most people don't want 180 burst back

[scarlet ibex]

I think 74+105 is better than 88+120 with 40 degree lock, giant difference

[muted halo]

l can see the argument for 60 degrees max, anything more = you want spin to win and dont care what players playing against sword think

[sick fossil]

"you disagree with me you are wrong"

[scarlet ibex]

yea of course they want sword is weakend, and they dont care about how sword player get close to them when they have guns

[sick fossil]

the lock just makes it worse against any sort of movement and the lunge damage and speed is too weak compared to how good the new m1s are for them to be used in combat

[muted halo]

because you seem to not care about the first comment l made here

[muted halo]

read

[sick fossil]

this is more of an issue with 3rd person animation and how ping works

[scarlet ibex]

acctually when the enimy move perpandicular against sword's super dash , it will be very hard to hit him with this new 40 degree limit

[sick fossil]

there is a reason why you cant turn around on a dagger dash stabbing you

[muted halo]

the char direction will not aline with the hitbox

[sick fossil]

you do realise 3rd person characters arent accurate

[muted halo]

which you know requires much more changes

[timber sparrow]

being locked is terrible for the weapons design, sword does not want to directly dash into people like ever

the lock itself would be fine if it wasnt restricted to 40 degrees

[sick fossil]

this issue goes for every single melee weapon in the game, you just find sword to be the most egregious

[scarlet ibex]

I mean, if I can directly put my ping alwayse on the enimy which only this way can let my super dash hits with 40 limite, why should I play sword but not guns?

[muted halo]

no other weapon dash like a genji dash forward, not hard to understand

[sick fossil]

so you want sword in the finals to behave like a hero shooter mechanic (that isnt a primary weapon) instead of being a useable mouse 2

[muted halo]

no, l don't want it to promote spin to hit multiple people when they are not aligned

which is what multiple people have been complaining about sword for a long time

[sick fossil]

i dont think you know how sword works

[timber sparrow]

he never has

[scarlet ibex]

how do you guys think about the old sword with 105 and 74, just curios, I think it is much better than the new one

[sick fossil]

low ranks no high ranks yes

new sword has a predictable lunge and is now reliant on m1s

[timber sparrow]

I think this one is better at very specific things but the 105 74 was lowkey better, if they buff the rotation I think it would be in a really good spot

[sick fossil]

old sword allowed you to play around your enemy and use combos to deal more damage

[gritty swallow]

so what do we think of the melee changes?

[sick fossil]

its a step in a good direction

[scarlet ibex]

I feel very uncofortble when I was using this weapon, I can say this is the worst experience of melee in any game Iv played

[gritty swallow]

there seem to be quite a lot of changes to the riot shield is it finally consitent now?

[scarlet ibex]

its better to repersent these in ttk

[timber sparrow]

the sword really needs a rotation buff

[sick fossil]

bigger swing hitboxes and active frames so yes

[muted halo]

l don't agree sinse bursts with qm are way too quick

[sick fossil]

yes but they are reliant on light staying point blank with you

which is where light is weakest

any shotgun would put them down

[gritty swallow]

nice for me they just have to make dual blade deflect consitent.

[sick fossil]

dual blades got the same buffs

except active frames

[scarlet ibex]

you know qm takes very less time and can be end by change what you handle, I dont think the new formula(formula to eliminate) was quite different with old one, except the m2qm one . but how do I hit lights with a 40 degree limit?

[plucky spade]

Skill issue

[timber sparrow]

not even its what gets sword killed

[gritty swallow]

yea but for me the problem was that the deflect was a little wierd last time I played. but buffs are buffs I aint complaining

[sick fossil]

you dont

lunge was lowkey the only light repellent on sword and now its infinitely worse against light

[clever cloud]

What are some fun light build to play just cause (no melee)

[sick fossil]

but you can 2 shot with m1 though!!!

you could turn your brain off and use throwing knives

[scarlet ibex]

yea i guess throwing knives is much better

[sick fossil]

probably the easiest way to have fun on light

[clever cloud]

Ah hell nah twin I can not do that

[scarlet ibex]

at least you dont need to think how do I get close to enimys with guns

[sick fossil]

probably any of the shotguns or smgs then

[clever cloud]

Like m11 or something with what gadgets

[sick fossil]

dash m11/arn/xp with gateway , goo nade and whatever other gadgets you want

[scarlet ibex]

but the sad thing is , perhaps Im the first lvl 11 sword in aisa, its my fevorite, I play this FPS because of sword

[sick fossil]

nullifier is hype when you use it for the objective

[scarlet ibex]

which any other FPS cant do , this one is the coolest, but now ,the worst

[clever cloud]

Bet so dash m11 gateway goo and vanish

[sick fossil]

vanish is weak due to cloak nerfs but it is still fun

just dont rely too much on it

this is currently what i use

[plucky spade]

And it's that bad now or is it just tf2 spy player density reaching black hole levels

[silver hill]

Anyone else feel that medium’s shotguns need a buff? They feel really weak compared to the other shotguns in the game.

[stable gull]

Sword 40 degree are soo bad that's become completely trash. This isn't buff this is nerf sword again

[scarlet ibex]

you mean the fire one or with out fire

[scarlet ibex]

I agree

[granite jay]

Heavy needs a chainsaw as a melee weapon

[stable gull]

Yer i totally agree

[scarlet ibex]

bro this will be the coolest heavy weapon , even cooler than minigun

[granite jay]

Be good if embark sees this and does it

[sick fossil]

it could be cool but it might nullify spear

[scarlet ibex]

I think they should compelety re make spear's second attack mode

[granite jay]

Some nunchuka for light or medium would be good as well

[scarlet ibex]

this aoe just make sense in plat, and useless in anyother mode

[granite jay]

What is are?

Aoe I mean?

[scarlet ibex]

Area of effect, the simpel form

[granite jay]

Oh right, as in effect of what?

[sudden pewter]

Watching two whites yap 🍿

[granite jay]

Im actually black lol

[scarlet ibex]

I mean aoe is a word to describe something in games with make imapct to multiple targets,

[granite jay]

👍

[pure girder]

the goo granade is awsome

you can goo up the cash out and burn it to get a popcorn

its sooo efficent at making popcorns

[scarlet ibex]

yea but popconteasts

[languid vale]

good changes to the sword but the camera thing is so bad cant even quick meele after a lunge just remove the multihits, that would be the best change

[scarlet ibex]

I just want to say: The Datas and damags are the outfits of sword. But the flexbility is the soul of sword.

And flexbility is importent thing of light

[languid vale]

yes

just remove multihits and give me my flexbility back

[plucky spade]

Bro wants to be helicopter

[languid vale]

dont gonna be a helicopter without multihits

[scarlet ibex]

I mean just want multihits + 105 + 74 is enought

[timber sparrow]

at this point id rather this

[hexed marsh]

Give the flexibility back for the sword please. Then just remove multihit if a lot is still complaining about the sword being hard to counter.

[timber sparrow]

I love when my dash is off by 1 micrometer and I instantly die because of it

unironically this lunge rotation lock kills the weapon for me

[scarlet ibex]

so ,when embark can fix the bug of the very very very very uncofrotable heavy attack , so sad

[novel magnet]

the new sword is just so fking piece of sht

[void elk]

What nonsense 😡 now if you play sworde and hold down m2, then for the first half a second when you fly straight, you cannot move your sword left and right 😡😡😡 fix this!

[novel magnet]

embark successfully change all melee weapons to shits

[scarlet ibex]

except shild lol, but I think median cant play melees

[trim island]

Sword

Hi, my name is Edel and I am a Sword Main, almost 200h and i only use this weapon, not mainly, only.

To be honest, even with the big nerfs, the sword was still viable for people that mained it like me. I always was in positive KDA and sometimes even most damage of my team. I never got the skill to properly use "techs" so the phantom strike was never a thing I used.
But i do understand for new player, the weapon was impossible got get the hand on.

The probleme before was :

• Techs
  Im happy that techs are getting removed (even if reducing the Dash + Leap distance is really bad in my opinion, because the weapon has no distance option, so at least give it some speed to catch up.

• Leap
  Sword player mainly used leap, as if it was the main attack on the weapon and I understabd that Embark is trying to lean more into the slashing aspect of it, and i like it.

"False Buff" :
Increasing the damage but nerfing the leap is actually in my opinion a bad idea. It get's it more "easy" for new players, but caps the skill level wayyyy lower, really punishing for sword mains...

Like, does the sword really need to get this much damage ? Even when it was 75 strike and 105 leap, it was bad but still playable.
I just have the feeling that increasing to 88 strike 120 leap will just make it more frustrating for other players.
Maybe find a middle ?
(but the one shot light was needed)

"Camera Lock Probleme" :

I understand that the 360° was a big probleme, but reducing the mobility to 40° angle is frustrating, it gets on my nerves. Like you feel restrained as if I couldn't moove. Its really punishing even in mobility because i feel that im leaping straight to my death. Because it locks my in my direction and can't escape from it.

Solution :
Lock the angle to 80-90° left to right. In total you would have 160°-180° to play with, it keeps from spinning and you wouldn't be able to hit people that you "missed" or dashed through

[worn smelt]

i just saw the greatest idea for defib rework
#👂┇game-feedback message

[rough carbon]

also the mobility nerf

[winter jay]

mobility is better ngl. super dash feels unchanged and lunge jumps are easier than ever

[fickle radish]

a

[indigo nexus]

mobility nerf? It was buffed.

[timber sparrow]

He probably means the rotation

[indigo nexus]

they were responding to the rotation nerf, so no

[sick fossil]

the lower cooldown aswell makes mobility easier

[timber sparrow]

Prob means the microscopic superdash change but man i actually would go back to the sword last patch in a minute

[sudden pewter]

The primary damage buff wasn’t necessary but I absolutely love the cone lock for the lunge

[timber sparrow]

Thats pure stupidity if you think that

If it was 105 with a locked cone it would actually be more effective to just spam qm at half the people you fight

The cone itself basically makes it a net nerf regardless, other buffs basically just compensate for it

[muted condor]

I think people should use it for more than a week before making a call on it

[timber sparrow]

I already hate it, it actually removes the 500+ hours on how i played the weapon, im sure people will adapt but what i liked about it isnt even there anymore

[dusk terrace]

We need more specs and we need more spec updates🗣🗣

Buff grapple (lit just give it 2 charges or make it like in TF2 so that cooldown depends on usage), completely rework or buff turret, buff healing beam, nerf/slightly rework winch, do something with C&S idfk, buff goo gun (give it an M2 that shoots a bigger goo blob for 5 ammo that could adapt to where it is shot kinda like when u explode goo barrels in the air)

I also have a light new spec idea and a winch rework idea but cba writing em rn

But it'd be cool to see specs get some love

[magic falcon]

Hey what's does everyone think about the finals have a spellbook for a weapon

[dusk terrace]

I personally don't think it would fit in the game as a bare weapon, but as a skin for smth sure

[sudden pewter]

Finals isn’t fantasy. Maybe as a skin for the throwing knives? (Knives could turn into fireballs)

[dusk terrace]

Ngl even as a sword main the 7m lunge (9m effective range) is CRAZY but hell yeah👅👅

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1393085421482672138/speechmemified_pasteimage.gif

[dusk terrace]

The fuck is that take

[sudden pewter]

#👂┇game-feedback bro its a hellpit

[dusk terrace]

I haven't been there in a while....probably for the best

[boreal laurel]

Yeah you’re not missing much 😏

[paper plaza]

The full second charge time is awful

[dusk terrace]

It should be 9 seconds

Always should've been

[paper plaza]

8.5 id say

[dusk terrace]

Also could work but ee idk seems a bit too oppressive

[paper plaza]

Also what are they talking about in the melee patch, they did barely anything apart from make swings hit slightly better

I still want sledge back

[dusk terrace]

It was a sword patch with some qol changes for the rest

The 7m dash is making me fall of the map so often man I'm not used to it😭😭

[paper plaza]

7m dash, with sword?

[muted condor]

All they did was lower the skill floor and did nothing to make them more viable 😂

[paper plaza]

Is that a buff?

[dusk terrace]

Yep, they changed it

[muted condor]

They did the opposite of what they were claiming they wanted with melee

[dusk terrace]

Tbh as a sword main I'd say that it's just weird + super dash now feels like, delayed? Idk it feels so weird now it doesn't feel like a dash but like it's dragging you foward

[paper plaza]

We want to make melee more fun and viable

literally just makes it easier to hit

The only one I can really appreciate is Riot Shield since it did have pretty awful range

[dusk terrace]

Riot shield now feels very good imo

[boreal marsh]

Sword feedback. Sword has lost its entire identity. Developers want us to use left click only. Using lunge attack is throwing now. It's so useless comparing to the left click. Damage is too low, so when you hit someone with it you still gonna have to left click or quick melee enemies the same amount times as if you left clicked them first instead. Quick melee is usable against lights again BUT you can't hit them anyway because of camera lock. Camera lock... Now you cant use lunge as initiation. It is because this restriction forces you to be more precise and dash fix making you slower so you die more often before you reach someone. And If you hit someone somehow you just gonna be faced away from the enemy and they tend to hide behind you. It feels so trash to loose sight of enemies only because of this. Also because of the muscle memory I feel pain in my hand when I reach the turn limit.

[paper plaza]

Eeewww

[dusk terrace]

But blocking is still ehh

[paper plaza]

Does feel much better with still having plenty of skill room

[dusk terrace]

Truee so true

Feels consistent

[paper plaza]

Blocking i like since it can block other melee hits

Which is 🔥

Defib time was at what, 0.8?

[restive dock]

0.8 ye

[paper plaza]

A full second now is way too jarring

With .8 i could snatch my teammate from a fight, defib them, and defend their body while taking moments to heal them. Now with the full second i dont even have the health to actually defend them cuz the charge up is longer

[muted condor]

Dual swords still not being addressed in any way

It’s been multiple season emabark

[paper plaza]

Nexon hates Dual Blades

Thats totally gotta be why

[dusk terrace]

4 seasons

[wind lintel]

yeah, the camera lock makes m2+qm combo very wack
not to mention because of how fast lights are in general, you can just strafe and watch them fly by you

[dusk terrace]

But you can dash sideways into them then