💣┇weapons-gadgets

[normal ice]

I would like it if they didn't have so much drag. The way they just slowly fall perfectly downwards to the floor after like 20m is really unintuitive

[worldly sequoia]

I think they should revert back to season 2 dagger, or before the major dagger rework happened

[heady hemlock]

mythic sling shot skin for the bow

[sinful dagger]

Then they might as well be a gun with infinite ammo. Its better to keep the unique identity of the knives

[silver bay]

IS THE season 1 battle pass skin odlia suppose to be a light or a medium, i see her with a revolver
then a throwing knife

[cosmic tide]

delete the cl40, there i said it

[hushed rock]

Well as a medium and light enjoyer i think there is this area where if u cant counter cl40 or melee mains its just skill issue... Idk how to say it . But im doing pretty well in the game u just need to know how to counter them(by just playing alot)

[normal ice]

CL-40 has a slower TTK than at least 4 of Medium's hitscan guns -- against every class. just because it has a low skill floor doesn't mean it needs to be deleted

[cosmic tide]

i can counter them, they're not HARD to fight. its just straight up not fun

[normal ice]

is it fun dying even faster to hitscan?

[solar needle]

It’s not fun fighting heavies using the barricade head glitch either but here we are.

[hushed rock]

Id day the only unfun part is going against a 2k hours kovaks arn/fcar mains im wasting all my goo gernades just to counter those mfs😭😭😭

[plucky spade]

What's not fun about it bro?

[junior oracle]

i love the dagger i hate glitch mines

[cosmic tide]

you have to either A. ALWAYS have high ground B. Equip aps (very awful counter) or C. hope you can outgun them through the explosion smoke and kill them before they can kill you

and all of this mind you, while they are just blind firing and getting 80% of the max damage

[cosmic tide]

like i said, not hard, but just fucking annoying, if all i wanted to do was see who could climb higher up in the map, i would go play fortnite

[normal ice]

you can jump over the explosions

[plucky spade]

You listed counters, you listed the fact that these weapons have 2 different playstyles and they have counters
bro just tell us you want COD V2 and be done with it.

[cosmic tide]

this is literally the same argument people had for stun gun and it's equally invalid. the stun gun was just flat out NOT FUN. fighting a CL40 is just NOT FUN. i have no issue with any other annoying strategy because the counter isnt just flat out boring. if you want examples: goo sledge? find a way to create distance using corners around the environment, and get enough pot shots off to stop the healing while not taking too much damage. dagger dash? find a way to drain their dash charges by using the environment to create situations where their dash can't get behind you for free. both of these are fun and engaging, and they actually require brain function to pull off a counter, this is what i want. CL40 on the other hand, like i said you either run away without fighting to get to higher ground asap, where the gun is almost useless, OR, you sit still under a APS turret and kill them faster than they can drain your APS (any item that forces a loadout change to counter is just not fun). if you wan't to actually come up with something inteligeble to counter me, go ahead, but so far you A. didn't listen to what im saying, and B. insulted me by saying i want this beautiful game to be fucking call of duty. PLEASE, if you have anything actually useful to say, say it without being a dickhead

and like i said, im saying it is DIFFICULT to counter a CL40, its actually REALLY easy because people who use it aren't good. im saying that it just is NOT FUN to counter and require very little brain function and/or a loadout swap (WHICH IS NEVER GOOD)

[stiff vine]

the SH1900 should deal 154 damage, its too strong now

it wont change the ttk if you hit your shots for light and medium, but it will change for heavy

and clearly embark doesnt like quick melee combos as we can see from the sledge nerf

[cunning wyvern]

Am I having a fucking stroke or is the flamethrower hot garbage

[timber sparrow]

Flamethrower is pretty niche, its actual dmg output is pretty bad

[supple cove]

how to use m11 effectively?

[normal ice]

you don't even need highground or APS to fight CL-40 if you're that stubborn. CL-40 kills slower than Revolver, Pike, Model, or Repeater do. you can literally just out-TTK them while standing still.

you also have the option of running face-first into them, just saying.

[timber sparrow]

Cl40 is literally just the flamethrower on medium- good for griefing lights, and pretty bad for everything else

[mossy ibex]

Please buff the sledgehammer's damage. If a melee weapon is weaker than firearms at close range, then it becomes completely meaningless

[void edge]

Cl40 needs a buff imo

I like my projectile based weapons

[normal ice]

me too :)

[void edge]

I wonder if the nerf had anything to do with the healing meta now

[mossy ibex]

Do you know why the usage rate of the CL40 is so high right now? It's not because it got buffed again, but because there isn't a single properly balanced shotgun at the moment. The current meta is full of light units, and the CL40 is the only weapon that can effectively counter them. Sometimes, a weapon's high pick rate isn't due to it being too strong, but because everything else is too weak.

[normal ice]

Indeed. Model 1887 and every melee weapon needs buffs

Unless they're trying to make this Overwatch by making TTKs slow and even quadruple as slow with any healing source present

[near scroll]

idk if it needs any changes right now tbh
the one thing about it that irks me is the removal of pump cancelling via quick melees but that's not gonna get reintroduced so whatever

[void edge]

I don't know any projectile based weapons that I've seen at the highest level? But then again I'm bad at the game

[near scroll]

yeah in comp scene it's mostly auto hitscans from what i hear, with a couple single shot users
however in ranked even up to like low diamond there's a fair amount of diversity, and as someone that ran it in high plat lobbies it's not too bad
it's playstyle is of course way different to ARs or shotguns, you've gotta use movement and the splash to damage people around corners a lot more, but i think it's fine as is

[red dune]

I cant believe they added a scope to the repeater. It feels op now

[near scroll]

bro's dreaming about season 8 already

[red dune]

There's a new sight on it

The famas scope

[near scroll]

wait really?

oh shit u right, i'll need to try that out

[terse gorge]

wait, bro wasn‘t tripping

how is it

[pallid island]

the higher the elo the more predominant certain weapons start to infest the lobby

The game is already somewhat balance i think they should stop nerfing weapons and start buffing instead, buff up to the same level of THOSE certain weapons

[indigo nexus]

The game should not just be balanced to a small minority of the playerbase.

If you buffed flamethrower enough that it was perceived meta-wise as being as good as the pike or whatever, it would wreak havoc upon the balance from the perspective of most players.

[stiff vine]

why not make the least used class more appealing for new players

[indigo nexus]

The last time I heard we had proper info on what class that was was S3

[stiff vine]

maybe the least used class is better because only people who are good with it stick to it

[indigo nexus]

This is an assertion in need of evidence before it can be used for any argument.

I don’t know to what extent embark have some data scientist analysing their stuff but I expect them to know of most relevant trends between the classes, they should have the data to prove or disprove such a claim so I would be a little surprised if they would know that to be true but somehow not take that into consideration when giving us basic info on class balance. Which is a predicate that your supposition relies on.

[merry imp]

I had aps goo grenade healing beam defibrillator and least deaths most revives. The heavy had a healing ball charge n slam no dome no barricade. He got more support score than me.

[weak kernel]

you just listed two hard counters that other weapons don't have to deal with on top of "your gun just does more damage so you should win the 1v1"

also dealing with the CL-40 generally is more fun than dealing with a good rifle player because there's shit you can do beyond "don't make eye contact unless it's an advantageous situation for your weapon lmao." you have a lot more agency when you can play around range and repositioning very actively and aren't cooked if you leave cover for a second.

it just rings the same as melee. people panic when a melee user is in their face, so they get cooked even though the sword's TTK is abysmal now. people panic when they start getting splashed, so they get cooked even though there's plenty they could do to either get out of the danger zone or just win the fight if they're not landing direct pipes.

[hardy dust]

https://tenor.com/view/limbus-company-canto-viii-lei-heng-project-moon-reload-gif-14416266550618323856

[cosmic tide]

again, i am NOT saying i die to this, i win most of these fights. it is just not fun. its not that there ISNT anything that i can do, its the things i can do are just BORING. I AGREE that there are hard counters that other weapons don't have to deal with, im just saying those hard counters are not fun and that having boring and not fun counters is BAD for a game (the thing that is supposed to be fun)

[weak kernel]

genuinely can't comprehend how you think a weapon that gives you multiple avenues to counter it involving gadget counterplay, direct combat, or repositioning is less fun to deal with than a hitscan laser

played multiple movement shooters that were fucked in the balance department by hitscan, personally haven't played one fucked by rockets or whathaveyou because the whole deal with playing a game with lots of movement options is that you get to play around projectile weapons

[void edge]

Yes, i love my projectile weapons

[weak kernel]

like i didn't quote you for the above but genuinely how is being able to reposition in the open or beat it with gadgets less fun than having basically nothing to do but disengage entirely until the engagement is favorable, which is often the case against good old honest aimskill weapons

[stiff vine]

@placid slate this yo boy

[placid slate]

Nah, you wouldn't catch me dead using the snake spear, let alone not repping holtow

[dusk cosmos]

God, I think the H+ Infuser is great for me to actually be a quick support unit
I was patching through each person I could get

Eventually I stick to one CL-40 medium that pushed really hard so I basically being the main person to heal him quick and won the game

It does heal really good, like 3 shots is enough to full hp

[near scroll]

20hp per shot

[hoary coral]

I love goo gun and flamethrower combo so much!!

[long swan]

Embark tf u doing? Emergency nerf the heal gun

[indigo nexus]

(well, assuming you mean H+ infuser I agree, heal gun is fine)

[atomic topaz]

CL40 is so overtuned right now

[mossy ibex]

Do you know why the usage rate of the CL40 is so high right now? It's not because it got buffed again, but because there isn't a single properly balanced shotgun at the moment. The current meta is full of light units, and the CL40 is the only weapon that can effectively counter them. Sometimes, a weapon's high pick rate isn't due to it being too strong, but because everything else is too weak.

"The problem with the CL40 right now is that there's no weapon to counter it, because shotguns have already been nerfed to the point of being useless.

[indigo nexus]

Weapons having loadout counters is not healthy for the balance. You do not want to incentivise counterpicking or luck-based game results

[indigo nexus]

KS-23 and Model are definitely a bit weak (I would not say useless.), but the others? They’re all fine viability wise

[mossy ibex]

The CL40 changes were made a long time ago, so why wasn’t the previous version as widespread as it is now? It’s because medium and heavy classes used to have shotguns and sledgehammer combos, which not only countered the CL40 but also targeted light classes effectively. Now, however, they can’t pose a real threat to the CL40 anymore. Meanwhile, light classes have become too powerful, and without using the CL40, it’s hard to counter them—so now everyone is running with the CL40.

[brave solar]

I’m inclined to agree that the CL40 is fine and not overtuned but I won’t lie I’ve kept it in my reserve for the better part of a season and a half at this point and if is a double or triple light team it makes short work of them. I don’t ever struggle against CL40 but always destroy when I swap to it. (I don’t play light so that might be part of it)

There are many other weapons that have TTKs against lights that are just faster. I think it’s just the pressure and spam this gun applies to teams pushing it just feels oppressive. That stacked up with the relatively quick ttk and the fact that sometimes it feels like because it’s a gl they will always hit you at least a little bit with the splash and never miss just makes people upset.

TLDR I’m not really sure if I think CL40 is strong or not lol I think ppl are valid for being upset about it.

[mossy ibex]

The reason for the widespread use of the CL40 is that other weapons can’t effectively counter light classes, and most players aren’t in the habit of carrying APS either.

The CL40 has a significantly lower TTK against medium and heavy targets compared to guns, but when it's the only available option, quantity leads to a qualitative change — enough CL40s can become frustrating to deal with.

[fossil cove]

Part of this is due to the nerfing of the Cerberus and model that ruined mediums ability to deal with lights,

They need to revert the shotgun nerfs and the hammer nerf, light players are a menace (saying that as a mostly light player myself)

[brave solar]

I think you’re right on the money. I think there’s also the element on top of this of a gl being perceived as a low skill weapon when compared to other medium options. The emotional damage of getting blown up rather than tracked by hitscan

[fossil cove]

I agree,

People like to say that it requires less skill to use the CL 40 meanwhile console players using the AK or XP can beam you from 100 meters without any skill or aiming required

projectile weapons will always be harder to use than hitscan, plus you can’t blow yourself up with the AK

[graceful nova]

#👂┇game-feedback message

“Thermal vision has no counterplay”? What? Just hide

[brave solar]

I just can’t agree with this unfortunately…

IMO: when the automatic weapons are the perceived meta, the game is in its healthiest state. I think the medium class this season is the most balanced it’s been in a long time. We went awhile with the pike being super strong, then the model, then the cerb, and dying to those weapons felt terrible.

The cerb nerf absolutely hurt that gun, but it needed it. I’ve ran it quite a few games this season just to see how well it can do post nerf, and I honestly think it’s in a great spot. Same with the model, just has a slightly different playstyle. I think both of them can preform relatively well in the right hands

I’ll never play sledge, that shit is Mickey Mouse, I hate melees in this game, but I haven’t died to a sledge yet this season, so I’m happy it’s gone for now.

Idk how to tie this back into the CL40 discussion, so just know I don’t think we should revert AT LEAST the shotguns, maybe sledge got hit too hard I’m not sure

[hoary coral]

hello chat! wats up?

[grand turtle]

When automatic weapons slap on the shotguns up close, I think that is not good balance.

But I guess when shotgun turns out to be good up close, it requries a nerf.
Maybe soon people will find out that Pike feels too strong at range. Might want to drop its range below the automatic weapons you know :)

[arctic compass]

Cl40 has once again set this chat on fire run while you can

[hoary coral]

bruh, cl 40 isnt that op tho lmao!

[arctic compass]

True but its not a automatic and its “easy to use” so its not favored by 80% of the community

[royal pier]

Kinda inevitable in some situations. For example, the GLs are always going to be a natural counter to Riot Shield just by the nature of the weapon. The MGL32 more than the CL-40, due to the bounce making the explosions right at their feet.

One thing the CL-40 could use is less dramatic sound and visual effects when it hits you.

Even a half damage blast has huge feedback that's often disproportionate to the damage delt.

That feedback can lead to it feeling oppressive to get hit by, even if its damage output isn't particularly high.

[royal pier]

If they bring down the ARs and SMGs, while bringing up the handful of weaker options, the weapon balance will hopefully be in a decent place.

Wild that they nerf sledgehammer for being the third best weapon (according to them), while the two that are likely above it (FAMAS and Pike) remain untouched.

[gloomy spruce]

What kit would say fit best with a Jump + Zipline Medium?

[radiant orbit]

Demat a nade and something snappy like revolver or fcar probably.

All movement attack medium is pretty fun, you can get pretty technical with yer flanks

[swift cradle]

Cl-40 isn't op. It's just not fun to deal with. The best options is to either stay on higher ground, play out of range, or to run in his face so he kills himself.

I think light players have the most frustration because of how fast it kills and the blast range is pretty generous.

But in most cases outside of those situations, you end up trading with him a lot. That's annoying.

Also, I think just visually, that shit is just jarring getting blown up repeatedly lol

None of these are difficult to do at higher levels, but... it's very common to see the opposite.

[brave solar]

I’m of the opinion that defib will just always generate value for your team and every medium should run it no matter what (in cash box modes… which is what I’m assuming you’re playing, run a nade or mine if you’re playing tdm. )

You can play any weapon because you’re running double movement. You can use repeater or pike and zip up to high grounds, you can jump pad dive teams with model or cerb, or you can just run a rifle and use the zip/pad to play wherever you need to be to stay in that medium-short range.

As far as specialization regardless if you are playing with your team or more of a solo fragger playstyle i think you should just run demat, its just too good to not use it

[graceful nova]

Glitch effect buff? Now any gadget/specialization will stay glitched after being affected. Contestants must interact to “reboot” the glitched gadgets.

[vernal stream]

anyone have any thoughts on the best support light build with the H+?

[median reef]

Weapon that does sustain damage where you don’t have to swing for kills. ARN, M11, MP5, V9S. Glitch or thermal depending on lobby, gateway. Follow ur heavy everywhere

[vernal stream]

what about spec? Cloak?

[median reef]

You could but dash is probably better so you can get out of a flank or swing your heavy to heal quickly. Also helps w gateways

[vernal stream]

ok cool I'll try it out

[lethal trail]

what are the dif zooms for the sights?

coulda swore i saw one had little bit more zoom and i cant find where that was.

found it nvm

[oblique crypt]

I like team vanish bombing, and tracking dart (for some maps). Then gateway obviously.

[placid sandal]

Ik this update happened long time ago but Why did the tasers have to down grade so badly

[solar needle]

Thermal H+ and glitch. I swap thermal in and out if I see invis lights in the pre game lobby. If I don’t I swap to gateway

[gritty swallow]

what are the melee combo's for dual blades ?

[vague topaz]

So why exactly did sledge get nerfed to the ground? I took a break season 6 but before that I was a sledge main. Peaked ruby using sledge, just got back into it with the new season and my sledge has no potential at killing light anymore. I can barely kill another heavy that is right in front me, and mediums completely obliterate my health before I get a second swing off. When did it become unfair to have a skillful weapon?

[vague topaz]

Not sure if sledge was completely busted season 6 but season 5 there were only a handful of people in higher ranks that would use it, so not sure why it got hit so hard

[oblique crypt]

It had a very high win percentage. I'm not sure if there was any other reason.

[placid slate]

Replace third attack with a qm and you're good honestly

[vague topaz]

@oblique crypt that is an absolutely diabolical reason to send it to the shadow realm. I definitely probably feel different than other cause I sunk a decent amount of my hours into it. But wow.

[oblique crypt]

The nerf actually wasn't THAT bad, I still find it's an effective weapon.

[gritty swallow]

ok thanks. how do you play spear? what I have been doing is just spin then wheel cancel when there dead is there a beter way or not realy?

[vague topaz]

I feel the difference against each class differently, but you just can’t counterplay a light at all anymore. If you don’t catch them off guard they’re gone. It becomes completely unviable if a (decent)light is on the other team. Quick melee combos for medium and heavy I guess can go but it’s the main way to kill dash lights.

[solar needle]

Nerfed due to high win rate and because of the upcoming update that would give them a heal ball and a light heal option.

[mossy ibex]

Maybe they included the kills and win rate from the new mode.

[vague topaz]

So would something else in the heavy class need to get nerfed for the king of melee weapons to rise again?

[solar needle]

They will probably rework it after they nerf the light healing gun and the medium ball. Melee weapons IE the sword,dagger and sledge have had nerfs and buffs for awhile. Medium melee is the only one that doesn’t get nerfs or buffs.

Right now you can have a heavy sledge wipe a team with 2 lights pocket healing. Dude is a god when the lights hit shots with the infuser.

[solar needle]

Sadly the more a weapon is used the more chances of nerfs but every glass has its weapon that the devs won’t nerf for some reason.

[placid slate]

Wheel cancel is the only cancel right now, gadget cancel got patched

[placid slate]

They mentioned each specific mode where sledge was dominating, and heavy hitters wasn't one of them

[vague topaz]

That’s what I’m trying to understand. Super bummed about it, trying to get back into it but just so hard not being able to use sledge how it should be used. I understand the concern with the new healing gadgets but in the games I’ve played(solo) I don’t get teammates that pump me with meds, and I myself don’t use healing ball. So I understand the vision but it does not play out like that at all

[vague topaz]

Did they mention what game modes? I wouldn’t think it’d win a lot in ranked. Would assume most of the quick play modes.

[solar needle]

Meta is always changing. That’s what the focus is.

[vague topaz]

Rip the melee community🥲😔

[solar needle]

2 seasons in a row. Melee takes a hit. People hate what they can’t easily counter.

[vague topaz]

yeah i guess i'll find something else to play in the meantime. someone please @ me if they buff sledge. Don't want to keep crying over spilt milk.

[placid slate]

All modes bar terminal attack

[vague topaz]

high winrate but how about usage rate?

[placid slate]

Not mentioned, stats mentioned were high win rates, high damage per game, and high eliminations per game. From personal experience sledge was somewhat common although that would vary from person to person

[vague topaz]

Okay that’s fair, cause personally it was very uncommon. Could only give you 2-3 other players in D1+ lobbies during season 5. So I guess it depends if the glass if half full or half empty :/

[placid slate]

I've seen one every 2nd or 3rd game in quick cash

Minimum

[solar needle]

It has high winrate in WT and ranked which are the 2 gamemodes the devs care about.

[fossil cove]

"when the automatic weapons are the perceived meta, the game is in its healthiest state" could not be more wrong, they are the perfect example of everything wrong with the finals, long range weapons that make other play styles comepletely unplayable

you say yourself that you don't like melees, but that is literally part of what makes the finals unique to other shooters out there, go play siege if you want to tryhard with the XP

[solar needle]

I also saw it every match in quick play ranked and wt had a sledge player but they nerf/ buff based on all ranks. When I started climbing from bronze to gold had 2-3 sledge players a match and maybe 1 sword play in a single match.

[vague topaz]

Definitely a skill based thing then, higher Elo players still counter played effectively against sledge, whether that be dropping me with a demat or refragging and getting the rez. Sounds like lower skill players were having trouble

[solar needle]

Same reason the sword got killed. Sadly that’s what matters for player retention.

[fossil cove]

The sledge didn't deserve the nerf, people just love to compain

[stiff vine]

sledge was a hate nerf

[uneven niche]

y'all should I use looking glass or red dot for my lh1

[fossil cove]

fr

[uneven niche]

I agree it was so unnecessary 🙏😭

[proven juniper]

i remember glass feeling better but the scope not being symmetrical hurt my soul whenever i wasnt scoping

[stiff vine]

whats a good loadout for light? trying to relearn it

[proven juniper]

the matter was quite easy to play although not optimal

[stiff vine]

yeah but what gadgets

infuser and 2 others

[proven juniper]

i like running tracking dart since its surprisingly easy to hit and invis bomb if you didnt take invis as spec

[radiant orbit]

Ey another tracking dart enjoyer.

We may be the only two 😔

[fossil cove]

invis bomb and breach charge are my go-to equipment on light, I enjoy the grapple spec but the dash is easier to use if you aren't used to the grapple

also the throwing knives take some getting used to with the travel time but they are soooo fun to use

[gritty swallow]

Iv never realy used breach charge , in what situation do you use it?

[trim sky]

Ah.. infuser... the gadget any random is not taking at all...

[proven juniper]

if you need to break a wall kinda like rpg but no damage and not instant

[gritty swallow]

but why not just use thermal bore?

[proven juniper]

oh wait i switched the names up

[ashen hawk]

Weapon-- XP54, ARN
Gadgets-- Vanish Bomb, Sonar Nade, Grav Vortex, Gateway, Breach Charge
Specializations-- Grapple

(Grav Vortex and Breach Charge are specifically for protecting your cashout, so mainly just work in the cashout gamemodes.)

[proven juniper]

the breach charges are usefull to place on cashouts to prevent people from stealing

[gritty swallow]

I thought they made it so It doesn't kill anymore? ( dmg nerf) and for that I just run gas nade but if you can't get there right away it may be handy. il give it a try

[proven juniper]

yeah but theres a good chance it will break the ground beneath it and it will still cause panick even if it only does chip damage

[fossil cove]

you can open way more than the thermal bore, with the thermal bore you can open 2 holes, with the breaching charges you can sometimes take out the entire first floor of a building and collapse it because you get 3 of them (if you space them properly)

thats why I like it over the thermal bore atleast, you do get more range with the bore tho

if you use the breaching charges you can also set up all 3 of them and then detonate them at the same time, you can open 3 different holes at once and they won't know which one you are gonna be peaking them through

[compact quest]

SH and throwing knives aren't fun to deal with but they're not getting nerfed any time soon. Being "annoying" =/= OP

[fossil cove]

facts

[solar needle]

Arn is my favorite cause I play longe range and suck close range but infuser,thermal(my eye sight is shot),and glitch for heavy heals

[fathom cove]

which v9s skin shuld i use

out of these

[stone moth]

m!play https://music.apple.com/us/album/geezer/1819096293?i=1819096620

[boreal laurel]

There’s always the shuffle option if you can’t decide

I like the diamond one myself

[merry imp]

The aps turret should work against throwing knifes and bow and arrow

[fathom cove]

ok

this will be the only weapon i use deep shuffle on

[tulip knoll]

Cb-01 need a hip fire buff

[uneven niche]

I personally use the white skin

[graceful nova]

If you’re running out of ideas, consider how it works with your overall outfit

Depending on the timing of cooldowns, you can open 6 holes with breach charges. Lay down all 3, wait for the next 3 to recharge. When engaged, blow up the current 3 and use the 3 still in your inventory

[bronze cedar]

Is goo launching still possible? Tried both the throwing on deployable/structure method and exploding something beneath a goo ball and can't get either to work

[dull burrow]

What do y'all run with .50 akimbos?

[stiff vine]

hopes and dreams

[dull burrow]

No way, same!!

[gritty swallow]

what should I run with the MGL32 other then a lot of hopes and dreams and the pythagorion therum?

[ember condor]

that is why lower skilled players are asking for nerfs on light

[placid slate]

C4, pyro mine, dome

[ember condor]

rn i run barricade heal dome with charge n slam cuz it is more fun than mesh or smthn

[shut rivet]

Defo not tracking dart been nuts on knife my brotha

[amber ermine]

the ekazo build , goo gun, fire mines, c4 and domesheild

the best stalling loadout

hope embark gives us transparent early 2000s skins especially this season

[radiant orbit]

The fcar cd skin is sorta this, hope to see more I love this stuff.

[void edge]

im so washed after hammer nerf man, everything i play is so bad

whatre the beginner weapons these days, i might have to relearn the game

[void edge]

i played akm s1-s4 and then riot shield and hammer in s6

[floral pine]

i just saw someone with like orange wave effect on their mgl and shak. anyone know where they come from? i cant find it in any wiki or anything. looks like the effect from the vaiiya encryption skin but it looked like the standard mgl

[mental relic]

hey so i'm thinking about buying the High Noon skin for the R .357, does it still support custom animations?

[strange drum]

Opinions on best medium gun?

[hardy dust]

Probably pike, maybe famas

[mental relic]

definitely pike

famas in a close second

[hardy dust]

I concur

[drifting python]

has anyone had a glitch with their weapon sticker, it says one is on but it’s not and i can’t unequip or equip another one.

[mental relic]

ohhh but part of me also wants horizon hammer, hmmmmmmm

[muted condor]

It’s a PS+ bundle this season

[mental relic]

^

[dawn flicker]

i like the weapons thee[ retty cool

[worldly sequoia]

Butterfly knife dagger skin please

[wooden tree]

What’s the best sight to use on the repeater

[arctic compass]

Its personal preference really theres not a best one, i prefer circle iron sights though :3

[floral pine]

Oh neat thanks could i get it by linking account to ps? Or is that not possible

[muted condor]

I only have PS so I’m not sure

[flat igloo]

we need someone that does a gunn sync like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxzWc7qvHpc&ab_channel=Ash100HD

[gleaming python]

i was watching netflix and got an idea for a weapon, a weapon that changes how it fires depending on whether you're aiming or not. idk if it would be good or not, like high damage low rpm aiming and low damage high rpm hip firing,

[radiant orbit]

The repeater in Hunt Showdown works like this (fanning the lever inaccurate hipfire and slower accurate ads, lower body damage super high headshot damage) and I was extremely hopeful it was gonna work like that in the finals as it feels really comfortable and versatile.

But instead we got pike 2 electric boogaloo. At least it has sight options.

[vital rose]

what's the most braindead/aimless loadout y'all can think of? I'm mostly just sort of thinking on this as a joke but I'm curious to hear what people's takes are. The main two things I had in my head were a loadout built around CL40 and Turret, or Flamethrower and Shield

[royal pier]

If they lowered the base damage of the Medium ARs and weapons like the XP-54 and ARN while also increasing the headshot multiplier, they could keep the DPS roughly the same, but ask for user to actually prove they have good aim.

Tired of seeing people say that melee and other non-hitscan weapons take no skill while they use weapons that get good ttk with just body shots.

[royal pier]

Demat - AR of choice - Jump Pad - Glitch Trap/Proxy Sensor - Defib

[muted condor]

AR of some kind, turret, jump pad, defib, pyro nade

[paper plaza]

Yes

[exotic skiff]

What are you playing as weapons I wanna verify something

[muted condor]

At the moment I mostly play spear, duel blades, or revolver

[exotic skiff]

Ok thx that what I thought

[muted condor]

God forbid a man enjoys fun weapons

[restive plover]

gimme a throwing knives skin thats like little magic blasts from a spell book so i can unlock my inner wizard

[willow valve]

Yesss

[restive plover]

i want to go into my gun game with my wizard hat and arcane garmets, spell book in hand, encantations at my ready, and school some of these gun nerds in the methods of mana

[granite orchid]

That’s actually a really dope idea for a BP skin or bundle in general

I’d love to see that

[radiant orbit]

Does gooing your own teammates with goo gun while they’re stealing a cashout interrupt it?

[restive plover]

pretty sure i saw a video of someone doing that and it doesnt but they mighta fixed it in the newest hot patch

[radiant orbit]

MEDIEVAL SEASON
MEDIEVAL SEASON
MEDIEVAL SEASON

GIMMIE THAT GODAMN PLATE ARMOR EMBARK

[restive plover]

id kill for a medieval season ngl

[radiant orbit]

I’d genuinely lose my shit

[radiant orbit]

I’m afraid I may have to piss off one of my teamates in quick cash in a moment. It cannae be helped.

[restive plover]

oh no! throwing a game of quick cash!!!

get back to me tho if it works i might run it

[radiant orbit]

I’ve been getting reeeeally into cashout stalling tech lately. Fun stuff

[restive plover]

i found this great tech the other day called "heal ball and two miniguns"

[radiant orbit]

That’s crazy what equipment do you need for that?

[restive plover]

well believe it or not you'll need a heal ball AND about like two miniguns

[royal pier]

I resent the Heal Ball because while its healing is just so-so, not having it and dying in a situation it would have saved you sucks.

[median goblet]

anybody have throwing knife tech?

[wanton lion]

I want a SMG for the medium, I have an idea for one, I was thinking of the KRISS vector which I'm real it doesn't have quite "opposite recoil" it has a slight down push when shooting, but in THE FINALS I feel they can make it better

[magic mortar]

What's the point of running defib (quickcash) if you're not gonna use it once??

[swift cradle]

Yea I said that. But knives and sh also got nerfed ages ago. So it's not like they weren't touched

[spice vigil]

there is no tech 😔

[median goblet]

Damn😕

[shut wraith]

Please nerf the healing ball for heavy

[normal ice]

after you inevitably nerf the Healing Emitter, can you fix its XP gain? it's pathetically slow.

[mild grove]

beaten you to that: was shooting with my hand yesterday 😂

[restive plover]

see i need this to be canon rn

[terse gorge]

What dark magic are u practicing here

[terse gorge]

dont do it lmao

[fathom thicket]

It’s perfectly fine in my opinion

[quick mulch]

i need embark to add small sticky bombs to the light class and blow it sky high.

[slim herald]

I present to you! drum rolls Hand Canon!

[slim herald]

Don't lights have beeach charges? Don't they do similar stuffs?

[quick mulch]

i was making a joke abt wanting to have light kicked from the game but yeah

that could be a way to buff the breach charge maybe have it able to be stuck to players and have a faster throw and prime

[shut wraith]

💀

[viral crest]

alone? Yeah. But not when there is two of them or there is any other source of healing. That ball and a medium with a healing Beam basically make the heavy immortal

[crisp dome]

how good is the breach charge

[gritty swallow]

if you use it with barricade its way to good cause it can just go through it

[slow merlin]

Data reshaper thoughts this season?

[radiant orbit]

More useful than ever with how many APS turrets and heal balls are getting thrown around.

[slow merlin]

True but should it get it's 3 charges back or some kind of cool down buff?

[void edge]

Its rly good for the heal beam and turret mains

[crisp dome]

well yeah but would you sacrifice traps or movement for it?

im interested because i sometimes play heal and dont know if thats meta now

[sand monolith]

Doesn’t need a nerf what

Healing emitter is honestly mid at best

[near scroll]

insane to me how poeple are talking about emitter more than h+ infuser

[sand monolith]

Emitter could honestly use a buff lol

Infuser is kinda fine imo

[near scroll]

infuser is 400hp per full charge, it's definitely overtuned atm in my opinion, just needs slight value tweaks

like it has as much hps as the m11 has dps, that's insane

[sand monolith]

It could maybe user a longer cooldown but I’m fine with the burst heal

It makes meta a lot more fun and interesting

[near scroll]

haven't had the chance to play enough this season yet to truly tell

[sand monolith]

We are already at the point where we won’t have a meta without healing ever again so it’s best for every class to have a strong source of it, so that no one class is required

Aka buff emitter and beam

[near scroll]

beam def needs buffs now, agreed

idk what i'd do with emitter tbh, maybe a bit bigger range?

but yea ig early impressions are buff beam, maybe buff emitter a bit and nerf infuser a bit

like beam's a spec so it should be the strongest source of healing ngl

[sand monolith]

Emitter just heals way too slow imo

LOWKEY I might be biased because I love long ttks and sustain metas but I wouldn’t mind if emitter gave overhealth up to 25 or 50

[near scroll]

yea but it kinda needs to considering it's potentially team wide passive healing

like ngl i wonder if meta comp right now wouldn't be light infuser double heby balls, and play high ground/poke/sustain fights

[sand monolith]

It could have higher hp/s that’s divided by the amount people healing

[near scroll]

true. i also would like to see throwing at teammates get a bit better, maybe it reactivates faster

or maybe the first time you get connected to it you get a burst heal and then transitions into the slower heal over time

[sand monolith]

It could honestly reactivate instantly and it wouldn’t be an issue

It’s kind of annoying that there’s such a harsh punishment for managing its position

[near scroll]

this is my biggest problem with it tbh, it feels clunky to move around, like it takes ages to reactivate when you drop it

[sand monolith]

Yeah it’s so obnoxious

It needs something cause it’s arguably worse than passive regen a lot of the time

[near scroll]

i mean, i guess yea talking about it i realized my problem with it :
it's not flexible enough to be thrown around in messy teamfights, so it gets used for poke wars and shit, where you can't really deal with the emitter either as an opponent (which sounds like a kinda toxic gameplay loop to me ngl)
so i wish they'd make it a bit easier to use in those big teamfights

[sand monolith]

Yeah would be nice

[near scroll]

though i must say, my favorite use of emitter so far, even though it's a meme, is running it with melee to chuck it at people lol

[thick holly]

I feel like the emitter placement logic should be similar to how the turret is. Since it's more team healing based it should be used more strategically

[winter jay]

I can walk around a corner, place it an basically have my regen start instantly instead of waiting 10 seconds

[thick holly]

Pick it up for almost no placement cooldown, remote pickup for 50% placement cooldown, and destroyed is 100% placement cooldown

[near scroll]

also yes, this would make a lot of sense

[thick holly]

Because I've seen ALOT of people instantly replace it the moment it's destroyed

[winter jay]

I don’t even bother moving it half the time because the cooldowns back by the time I need one

[thick holly]

Yeah, I think it would be a good way to make sure people play strategically with it

Because for turret: if you left it somewhere, you gotta wait till you get it back. There's a punishment for leaving it somewhere

And that makes sense cuz it's basically an "extra player". So the same logic should be applied to the emitter since it's basically an extra heal beam

[sand monolith]

And it’ll heal you so slowly that your regen will start before it’s finished

[winter jay]

Would you rather fight someone with 0 health back or 100 back

[sand monolith]

I’d rather bring a different gadget that more useful

Like c4 so I can drop cashout while regenerating

[brittle yoke]

yeah i like the turret cooldown idea, biggest thing for me is just when someone breaks my ball its back immediately bc the cooldown in the background. even if it was something simple like your cooldown dosent start till the ball is broken id be happy

[sand monolith]

Or dome so I can avoid the damage in the first place

[brittle yoke]

the healing emitter is kinda spammy, ive been maining heavy this season and i just have constant regen the entire game

[winter jay]

Yea fair that’s what I replaced it for. I’ve been running the KS though and that helps w destruction/dropping

[winter jay]

The first couple games of S7 I would have my heavy place it in a room and we would just stay there indefinitely because we just couldn’t die

[near scroll]

is KS finally fun again this season?

[winter jay]

Yea the 2 shot destruction feels so much better

[brittle yoke]

we’ve been HHL just anchoring with miniguns and ball its so busted

[sand monolith]

Ks is fun but the downtime is insane

[winter jay]

Finally feels like a decent trade for having finicky dps

[near scroll]

yippee!! i haven't gotten to play it yet

though i feel like i kinda have to run winch with KS, and i luv me goo gun too much 😔

[sand monolith]

First recorded instance of a comp being good without medium

God bless Cerberus nerf bro

[brittle yoke]

amen

game is fr so fun without a medium even if its less movement

[boreal laurel]

What I like is that, if you’re a dedicated Cerby main like me, the nerf isn’t so bad that it makes the weapon unusable. It’s just enough, not too much. One of the better-handled nerfs in recent history

[placid slate]

Unfortunate side effect is all the mediums who waddle around like toddlers moved to the cl40

[sand monolith]

ITS TRUE

[boreal laurel]

Ehh, CL-40 is annoying but not near as hard to fight as Cerby

[sand monolith]

The weapon isn’t even gutted it’s in a great spot

[placid slate]

Still cancer, especially since they reduced the self damage range

[junior forge]

cl40 more annoying cause it also blows my pc up

[indigo nexus]

they didn't reduce the range, just the damage (1.6x -> 1.25x)

[lapis wigeon]

make dagger right click as TK one for the next patch notes, pls

[oblique crypt]

tk?

[high stag]

Revert sledge nerf.

The added ttk in a team fight + during a season where every class has healing means sledge users soak up an additional 100ish damage on average (at least) before finishing a kill.

Its was uncommon in plat or higher elo previously, at best the 4th-5th most common heavy weapon. It is completely non-viable in comp now.

[lapis wigeon]

throwing knives

[blazing flume]

Are you saying you want dagger right click to throw it?

[obsidian nexus]

if light didnt exist this game would be in a good spot

[obsidian nexus]

and the game would a million times less frustrating. a class that has way too much going for it, is moving at lightspeed and is 2.5 feet tall. trying to kill that or getting instakilled by that is just not the definition of fun in a million years

[blazing flume]

Flamethrower winch is pretty effective against lights, and CL40 for medium, but I doubt that will last long since all the light mains want it nerfed

[muted condor]

Sounds like a bad case of skill issue

[obsidian nexus]

thats a comment that is not necessary and doesnt progress the discussion or issue at hand

[obsidian nexus]

triple arn xp54. cl40 is only possible if their bad. if they play good angles theres nothing u can do

[blazing flume]

True, but isnt that also the case with any other weapon/class? better angles grant easier kills

[muted condor]

Nether is saying that an entire class should be removed because you don’t know how to counter it

[obsidian nexus]

with a class thats 5 pixels high on range, and that can reposition for free

[obsidian nexus]

thats not what im saying. what i said was. if the class didnt exist. the game would be in a better spot

[muted condor]

It would be boring

[blazing flume]

I honestly find no problem with lights

[muted condor]

Iv found most people will say a certain class is annoying or broken until they actually play it for a long time and learn how it works then can counter it easily

[vital anvil]

I agree

[obsidian nexus]

Meanwhile been playing since season1 and playing light entire season2 and begin season3

[blazing flume]

Light has changed since then though

[muted condor]

I have to be honest, if you’ve been playing since season 1 and still don’t know how to counter light there’s nothing anyone here can say that will help

[brittle yoke]

is the lollypop react to call them a sucker is that the bit?

[muted condor]

Who knows

[obsidian nexus]

okay so casual players dont matter.

just have superior aim i guess is his argument

if ur just playing for fun trying to make off meta work with ur friends. and ur getting frustrated because trip light are constantly dashing away or killing u before u can rotate. i guess thats just a skill issie

[lapis wigeon]

Click / hold to stab, instead of just hold

[oak rain]

Dude i had the sickest idea for a light specialization

Teleports you back to where you were a few seconds ago

[blazing flume]

How would that be like the throwing knives?

[muted condor]

I’m able to fold triple light teams with the spear in solo q

It’s just about positioning where it’s harder to get pushed and baiting them into using their movement to soon

[lapis wigeon]

Mechanics behind releasing attack

[muted condor]

I will say the dagger/dash is a bit of a problem sometimes

[vague topaz]

too bad they nerfed my counter to lights straight to the ground. no more one shot melee combos

[blazing flume]

I’m so confused, how are they different?

[muted condor]

I’m pretty sure it still one taps with an overhead right?

[vague topaz]

over head takes too long to get the kill, you can run away before an overhead gets off

[muted condor]

Perfectly viable

The threat of being able to one tap is they get close is a powerful tool

[lapis wigeon]

Bro, use both and U will see how they different

[vague topaz]

i can only do damage if you're close to me? so i shouldn't have a way to eliminate someone in a quick way when they are close to me?

how is that fair?

[muted condor]

Anything that kills in one hit in any game is never fun, it should be very difficult to do

I think it was kinda dumb they are wasting time worrying about the hammer over all the things they could be working on but the nerf wasn’t that bad

[normal ice]

My man, I don't know how you can look at the one singular source that is able to heal automatically while you continue to shoot enemies, multi-heal, AND heal infinitely with NO cooldown and say that's perfectly fine.

I'm not completely opposed to all classes having healing gadgets, but the Healing Emitter changes the poking game in a really unhealthy way. Medium's Healing Beam made poking a lot stronger, but at it had cooldowns and required manual use, sacrificing the Medium's damage output. This Healing Emitter does it 100% better.

The ONLY bad thing you can say about it is that its healing per second and range are smaller, meaning it won't do as much for or against rush/dive compositions. But it's still meta af to at least put it in your reserve to punish ANY team that plays any slower than that.

And no, H+ Infuser isn't fine, either. I do not think the highest DPS class in the game should also be responsible for healing teammates faster than most weapons can deal damage... Actually, I don't think any class should do that.

[muted condor]

They just need to make the ball not recharge while active and not heal through barricades

And I don’t think that was even intentional

[normal ice]

If they just made its own HP deplete with healing done, that would be fine with me

They can keep the recharging the way it is if they do that

[blazing flume]

The H+ infuser takes like 3 seconds and you’re out of shots, plus you actually have to aim to hit the person

[muted condor]

Being able to heal through objects is definitely bullshit

Medium having the least viable heal is the biggest problem

They made a already niche ability even less viable

[vague topaz]

this doesn't make sense, then light DB needs to be nerfed cause it does 156. and light bow needs to be nerfed. All you need to do for those is click your shoot button. I think it should require the winch to be a one shot. if you miss your winch it doesnt kill you. but atleast give the opportunity

[blazing flume]

I am testing on the practice range rn, and I still don’t see a difference, can you just tell me what I should be looking for?

[muted condor]

They should make defib a class ability and the healing gun a piece of equipment imo

It would fix the triple defib bullshit and make the heal gun better

[muted condor]

Did I say I thought the DB was fine?

It’s a way over tuned weapon compared to the other shotguns

[normal ice]

Idk what you meant by "takes 3 seconds", but I stand by the output being too strong. It's just not intuitive having your target go from 20 HP to 200 in a second. Like, even Overwatch tries to limit how burst-y heals are by making most high sources of healing actually be stretched out over half a second instead of instantly applied in a tick like H+ Infuser does

[ashen hawk]

why bro constantly reacting with lollipop emojis 😭 🙏

Anyways, Guns in need of a buff

• MGL 32
• Model
• Dual Blades
• Dagger
• Sword (revert the nerf)
• Sledge (revert the nerf)

its basically just meelee lol

[muted condor]

Shield needs a rework

[potent oriole]

Chat I need an actual answer, not yalls usual “get better” bs

I’m a very experienced player, been here since the first January

Well over 1000 hours (I lost track)

How do I counter

1. the medium katana user?
   They can literally block all of my bullets and I’m honestly kinda lost

2. medium grenade launcher users (if I’m on light ie can’t use a trophy system)

[terse gorge]

1. Shoot their legs, they cant block it

[muted condor]

For duel blades hit them with explosives or another melee and just outrun them

And for the CL40 try to stay above them. It’s completely useless if the don’t have high ground

[terse gorge]

2. No idea, I‘m still figuring that one out. I guess a jumppad if u are good at shooting down

[terse gorge]

what he says plus my stuff

[muted condor]

And for the CL40 if you can’t get above them just get as into their face as possible because it has really high self damage

[terse gorge]

Approved

[muted condor]

That’s more of a last resort option tho

[terse gorge]

Works pretty well tbh. Their damage plus ur damage kills them first mostly

[muted condor]

Unless you’re playing heavy because they will blow themselves up before you die

[terse gorge]

Forgot, playing cl40 is a forbidden choice, but it works vs dual blades. But keep your distance and also dont make the same mistake as Anakin

[muted condor]

Just don’t use a sniper against them

Unless you like head shotting yourself

[normal ice]

Most weapons will out-DPS the Dual Blades when they try attacking you. Don't let them bait you into wasting bullets on their deflects and you should win the DPS race.

Try fanning out from your teammates to shoot the Dual Blades at different angles each. They can't block 360 degrees.

Flamethrower goes right through Dual Blades and Riot Shield.

[digital lynx]

Mgl needs to blow up on impact of an enemy and not HAVE to bounce once before blowing up

[normal ice]

I agree. Been wanting that since day 1.

[terse gorge]

they wanted to put it apart from cl. and tbh for hitting people in buildings its pretty nice

I think the best reincarnation of dead go boom would be a specialisation for light or medium. You activate and have five seconds to get onto the enemy to suicide bomb yourself

It has a timer so you cant spam it when u are about to die so would be pretty damaged

[slender bear]

It would be cool if light had a spec/gadget that was good for dealing damage. Something like charge n' slam (although functionally different) would be cool. Imagine if we could get a play on the Orbital Lazer event, like some kind of beacon. Even better, it could have two charges and each Lazer would destroy everything between the sky and the beacon, dealing normal orbital Lazer damage to contestants.

[muted condor]

I like the bounce but ut definitely needs a rework

[shell sonnet]

what do you mean with rework?
as in completely remove the bounce for something else?

[wheat jetty]

https://tenor.com/view/fruit-defence-banana-slip-gif-14496807

How to disarm a hawy with banana guns

[normal ice]

Embed Failure: Instant Death

[wheat jetty]

https://youtu.be/QCKUITLCar4?si=LRnKB3lSsWwghvB-

[fathom cove]

why is there a scope on it?

[muted condor]

I hope it keeps the bounce so you can still hit people behind cover but it needs a change of some kind

[shell sonnet]

imo it mostly just need qol

slightly higher damage to 3 shot M on directs
maybe damage levels to avoid low chip damage
a crit indicator when you destroyed a deployable (ziplines, mines etc.) since i often dont see them while i flush them out

outside of that, i think its just a case of high skill floor even higher ceiling
its just not something for everyone

maybe heavy just needs a 2nd grenade launcher (that will probably be broken or useless, but at least it wont mess up mgl which is passable if you like it, by trying to rebalance it into something its not)

[open harness]

have they increased the range for the gateways to stay connected?

[arctic compass]

Y’all think breach tool is a decent sub for demat?

Been wanting to play med again was hoping to try something new

[normal ice]

<@&1012034066876473384> bot

[muted condor]

It’s pretty different but not a bad substitute, super cinematic and fun tho

[lapis wigeon]

Try click with right click with TK U will attack, but with dagger it will just cancel

[placid slate]

Bloody double barrel shot went through my dual blade deflect and now I lost the game

Does deflect block individual pellets or is it all or nothing

[normal ice]

Revolver, Pike, Repeater, and Model all kill every class faster than CL-40 does. You wanna nerf them, too?

[placid slate]

Damage isn't really the issue, shits just annoying

[normal ice]

Why ask to specifically "nerf" it, then?

[placid slate]

See it less, or make it feel less annoying

It's a weird weapon, it's not good, doesn't feel good to play against either

[compact quest]

Lots of weapons are "annoying" but that's not a reason to nerf something.

[muted condor]

Have you tried not standing still in-font of it?

Does wonders

[placid slate]

There is a difference between most weapons and the CL40, something just feels different about, personally can't pin point it. Don't think it needs a nerf to it statistically, maybe visual and audio might be why it feels off

[muted condor]

I do enjoy watching people ask for a nerf on one of the easiest to counter weapons

[cerulean quartz]

cl40 need a nerf

[junior forge]

1. turn around lol, kill everyone else on his team cause that would be easier than dealing with him.
2. run into the medium - force him to shoot at his feet while you also gun him down

or you can play high ground against cl40

[normal ice]

No, boy. Its skill floor is low but it sucks compared to Medium's other weapons.

[indigo nexus]

its skill floor is low if your opponent’s skill level is low.

or, is skill level even the term to use there? Let’s instead say “willingness to alter strategies in order to win”

I suspect that when most players encounter a CL-40 they take no action to attempt to counter it.

[normal ice]

I agree. They get too scared to shoot back even though its TTKs suck compared to other Medium weapons

They're like "ooh I took 80 damage from a grenade, better walk backwards and let him continue to chip at my health around cover"

[cunning crown]

Yeah like the cl40 isn’t even good. Plus it is meant to be a weapon to kill lights and you can counter by running up to the person. It’s just a skill issue

[runic gyro]

Why is every weapon only 500 money

[proper elbow]

This unique thing makes it balanced against light. If it did like CL, it would counter light Way, WAY too much.

CL is already a pure nightmare, if heavies that have 100 hp more would have a similar shit, it wouldnt be playable for lights.
Also Im pretty sure this weapon is more inclined to destroy buildings than player.

[strong totem]

hey so I just started again after a few seasons, why is the CL (the easiest weapon in the game) still so strong? make it make sense

[weary eagle]

False since they buffed them in s4

But if you shoot the legs we will take more damage, it will be treated as a glancing shot unless crouching

[normal ice]

It's not strong. It kills every class slower than Pike, Revolver, Repeater, and Model can. It gets shut down by highground and APS.

[normal ice]

We're asking for MGL32 to either explode upon hitting two surfaces or upon hitting a player directly. This is different from CL-40 that explodes upon hitting any surface.

It's not easy landing direct hits, especially when MGL32's grenades fly slower. MGL32 also only does 83 damage, not 100.

[compact quest]

CL is garbage tier, if anyone's losing to it it's on them

[thorn siren]

Does somebody wanna tell me why a melee weapon that is widely known historically for its advantage of REACH cant hit an enemy 3 feet away from you?

[tidal urchin]

Take medium gernade launcher out of ranked

[muted condor]

Somebody want to tell me why weapons known for being extremely loud don’t make the characters deaf if you don’t have hearing protection on?

[thorn siren]

that is perhaps the most asinine attempted comeback i think ive ever witnessed in my life, what is a spear for if not for reach?

[muted condor]

It’s almost like it’s a game that doesn’t base everything off real world practice

[thorn siren]

you are being intentionally obtuse and im not going to entertain that any further

[muted condor]

You wanted someone to tell you

[oblique crypt]

I mean... They got a point.

It is a game.

I thought the spear did have a pretty good reach though

[thorn siren]

then what is the point of two melee weapons where they both fuffil the same role and one just THE BETTER option?

[muted condor]

Spear has farther range than the hammer

[normal ice]

Spear also has the AoE spin

[thorn siren]

by maybe a ballhair

[muted condor]

It has better range and crowd control at the cost of damage

I do hope it gets a buff but it doesn’t look like embark plans are making melee viable any time soon

[normal ice]

If we can't do anything radical to change its design, then the Spear buff I'd like to see is to make the spin more consistent

I wish the animation wasn't so goofy and janky and instead it was just a decisive spin in one direction for one hit each cycle

Maybe let you cancel it early, too

[muted condor]

Ether a animation cancel or make the attack just one spin

[compact quest]

Why do ppl beg for nerfs? I've never begged for a nerf in my entire life. Just buff weak stuff maybe lol

[strong totem]

I dont play with APS im not a dweeb

[proper elbow]

Play against it as a melee light. When you have 2 CL against you, you are definetly out of the game.

I don't mind some weapon countering others, but i shouldn't either end up in a draw or die, when i already manage to close the gap on any ranged weapon (outside of shotguns i guess)

[proper elbow]

Make sense, i didnt play that weapon much to be fair. I just know CL is a nightmare to deal with, so i am happy that MGL isn't a straigth up loss when i duel a heavy. It depends if he uses his weapon well, that makes it more enjoyable to play against.

[normal ice]

No offense, but that sounds less like a CL-40 issue and more like a melees being weak af at the moment issue lol.
If you're using Dagger, perhaps try hitting them with Nullfier first. Then you can close the gap without taking much chip damage.

[proper elbow]

That's the thing, I often land the first hit and still end up in a draw, cus i dont have enough swing speed.

Sword swing speed is too low, and dagger left click as more dps than sword given its higher swing speed.
Yet if i do not back stab, i am dead 100% of the cases. It's just a matter of if he self kills or not.

Because jumping and aiming a bit further end up in too little self damage, they can out dps me anytime

I cannot even try to dodge shit, because the splash damage is too big and often hit me anyway even with a dash.

The worst game i had as a melee, were the games with 2 or more Cl and glitch mines at the same time.

I could have AFK and did as much in these last rounds..

[normal ice]

Well, like I said, both of those melee weapons are just weak in general rn

[proper elbow]

To be fair, all of the melee are weak now 🙃

Even hammer is dead. Sadly.

[normal ice]

But beyond melee, don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you're not able to kill a certain team with a particular weapon or loadout, change to reserves

SH1900 is just a better melee weapon anyway 😋

[proper elbow]

Like i said, i don't mind being countered, i can live with it. That's also why i do like playing against Heavy's grenade launcher, since it require more skill to win against melee. I did lose duel, and won some.

I do play melee only, though i wish i could switch to sword against light, but well.. i cannot one shot them so it's irrelevant now since they will kill me first anyway

As a dagger player, Glitch mine and lights are my two big annoyance, and don't have ways to deal with lights

[normal ice]

Historically your answer to Light was the Stun Gun, but...

Honestly Nullifier needs a buff. No healing while nullified, at least

[sand monolith]

its literally bad, good players arent using it at all either

you can have infinite heals it doesnt matter if it heals at 5hp per second

also infuser is fine. its burst healing, makes the game infinitely more interesting to strategize around and against

[muted condor]

Just a reminder just because the high ranks don’t use something doesn’t mean it’s bad

[sand monolith]

well obviously

[proper elbow]

I find that quite strange, This and bullet blocking. They should be counted as not even there anymore..

[sand monolith]

but emitter is just bad

you get infinitely more value from any other decent heavy gadget

[magic minnow]

whats the best medium gagdets

[muted condor]

Not defib because it’s a crutch

[edgy estuary]

Does the flamethrower animation look shorter than its actual range for other people? Or am I just experiencing desync? Both when using and on the receiving end

[edgy estuary]

Jump pad never leaves me, zipline is a staple too

[normal ice]

It's more like 20 HP/s. It's enough to make the difference between life and death in a direct DPS race. It's even better when, again, you're stalling.

Also I will admit that burst healing does mean more strategization, but not all strategization is fun strategization. Nobody wants to hunt down the quickest class capable of grapple hooking/dashing, teleporting, AND going invisible just to prevent them from fullhealing someone in like 1 second...

This is why Mercy's old ultimate was reworked. They didn't want to play hide and seek through 5 other people. This is also why people are banning Mercy from competitive play a lot this season where they added hero bans. Nobody likes trying to shoot down a super agile healer.

[sand monolith]

thats not why people are banning mercy and thats not why her ult was reworked

mass res was stupid and people ban mercy because 99% of mercy players are bad and will never swap. the character is bad

[normal ice]

Yes, full rez was too strong. But it only ever worked when the Mercy hid in the back for some time. It was counterable, just very annoying to do so

I don't think Mercy performs that badly, but even if we assumed so... Why would you ban a hero that is underperforming? If you're worried about someone stubbornly staying on Mercy, what if that's your teammate and you just subjected them to doing even worse with another hero? Doesn't make sense to me.

[sand monolith]

because mercy blows and other supports are easy to play

i ban mercy every game because my winrate with a mercy is significantly lower than without

[normal ice]

I mean, if you say so lol. But I'm still standing by burst healing on Light being an awkward combo

[magic minnow]

I need 3

[sand monolith]

burst healing makes most sense for the class that cant stay in fights very long

it wouldnt make sense to give light a heal that doesnt synergize with the class

[normal ice]

They don't have to be actively fighting for non-burst healing to still have impact. It can be for the moment they and/or their teammate have cover.

Also, if we wanted to keep the same healing output, can't it just be a lingering effect over the course of a second or two instead of, again, applying all at once instantly?

[bitter surge]

This heavy weapon doesn’t receive the attention it deserves

[sand monolith]

This would be a buff in a lot of situations lol

Infuser is really just fine, maybe nerf its recharge but the effect itself has counterplay

[normal ice]

How would it be a buff? You mean prefiring it so they get healing before they take damage in a moment? Then just make it so the heal effect doesn't exceed what is currently healed. Doesn't heal if they're full HP, only heals 5 if they only had 5 HP missing, etc.

[normal ice]

I don't know what the "counterplay" is to someone basically doubling a teammates' HP pool. If you continue to shoot them, you're going to die from not having enough HP yourself. If you back up, you're letting the Infuser recharge. If you try to hunt down Light first, they're the best for running away wherever they want as their teammates whittle you down.

In my opinion, with a game like this where the meta weapons are almost always hitscan and there is little mobility to help dodge, healing should numerically be treated similar to damage output. Because all the damage you deny your enemies is more time to dump out damage for yourselves.

[sand monolith]

bait light peek, pressure light away from team, bait enemy around corner so light cant heal, force cooldown out, dome shield enemy that you want to deny healing from, glitch light, nullifier light, keep space until heal is used

Just off the top of my head

[normal ice]

Dome is kind of fair. Glitching isn't going to be that consistent, especially if you're relying on Glitch Traps in an offensive push. "Force cooldown out" and "keep space until heal is used" means that, again, they got the value of healing anyway, so you're at a disadvantage. Nullifier is fair. Any strategy that relies on "baiting" people is itself counterable

[sand monolith]

Letting them get the heal off is fine, you can mitigate the value by positioning well

You can get value easily from almost every gadget. I don’t know why it’s an issue if it’s heals

[normal ice]

Because most gadgets are avoidable or destructible traps that do like 140 damage at the most, not healing a Heavy to full in a couple seconds.

If the enemy has healing and you don't, you're forced to rush them down, as they effectively have more total damage up their sleeve than you do. This is especially an issue if you're the attacking team that takes more risk trying to push into their territory. If you have healing and the enemy doesn't, you want to play the poke game and stall until they're low HP, then rush them with your extra health.

[woeful drum]

Common finals why isn't the nes zapper in the game lol is perfect for the light weapon

[slender bear]

Light's definitely is, but heavy's is worse overall. It has a bit more utility but the healing is so much worse than heal beams that it doesn't matter much.

[normal ice]

Yes. 20 HP/s each, half of Medium's Healing Beam 40 HP/s. And it's infinite. And you don't have to stop shooting. I disagree with Braq, that stupid ball is way more impactful considering Healing Beam requires you to lose Demat

The identities are healthy so you know generally what to expect and how to counterplay. Light as a long-range, flanking glass cannon, Medium as a midrange healing/positional support, Heavy as a close-range tank (both in health pool and in space-creating tools).

Giving everyone healing tools, especially this strong, kind of messes up Medium's identity indeed. Giving Light the fucking 300 HP instaburst technique is like giving the Spy the Crusader's Crossbow...

Who knows lol

[slender bear]

It used to be able able to consistently slow down kills enough that people ran triple medium and just healed and defibbed each other constantly. It made MMM practically immortal. I still think the issue was with defib more than heal beam, but for some reason they chose to give heal beam a bunch of miscellaneous nerfs that made it feel terrible to play and left defib as one of the strongest gadgets in the game.

[true ravine]

also the pike made MMM hyper dominant for a bit

ah fun times destroying and getting destroyed

[normal ice]

I didn't like 128 damage Model with melee cancels, but 108 is comically low. They need to bring it up a smidge

[slender bear]

Fair enough, but at the time it was a strong comp that needed some nerfs. They just chose to nerf heal beam instead of defib, like how they chose to nerf sword instead of dash, or sledge instead of winch.

[normal ice]

117. Trust me bro

That would require hitting literally every single pellet... Revolver does it in 3 shots but faster.

Or you can make it 116 if you're so stubborn lol

[slender bear]

I guess they could raise the fire rate up to cerb speed, but then cerb would be outclassed. Right now it needs some kind of buff to compete with cerb without outright outperforming it.

[normal ice]

Okay, nerf the spread some then idc. It's a friggin' shotgun, it deserves more damage

Half of the reason old Model was so broken was bc of the melee cancels

[slender bear]

Maybe they could tighten spread and buff the falloff range. Lean into it's range more instead of turning it into a generic cqc shotgun.

[alpine trail]

sledge does less damage than shotguns, let that sink in

[slender bear]

So does sword now, tbf

[normal ice]

It already has tight spread. By why hit about 8 of your pellets for less than 100 damage at 20m when you can use Pike, Revolver, or Repeater?

The main utility of Model atm is having more mobility, but... Mobility doesn't mean that much if you do shit damage. Just ask Sword

If you're not going to ever up the damage, then it needs a LOT of buffs in other ways like reload speed, fire rate, max ammo capacity, pellet count...

[true ravine]

theyre taking the qm damage in consideration for balancing the damage. In that sense, sword does comparable damage to shotguns. Still painful tho

[muted condor]

There is no sink out there

[slender bear]

The problem is unless they do a complete rework, it'll never be even close to matter or cerb in either close range fights or mid ranged ones. It needs it's own identity, because right now it's just matter but worse in every way. If they buffed falloff so that it could take fights from 20m out it would be the only real mid ranged shotgun and would have an actual niche. I'm still not sure how to deal with it being overshadowed by pike or revolver though.

[normal ice]

Don't compare Medium weapons to Light weapons. It doesn't matter if Light had straight upgrades, because they have diff gadgets, HP, and specializations.

Model should stand out from Cerberus by having more uptime before reloading, tighter spread, and IMO, more damage per shot. Cerberus would still kill faster at close range and have the utility of fire.

[slender bear]

I kind of wish they would take qm damage into consideration for db too though. Even if sword's burst damage is 145 with qm now, db's is over 200 with a qm. Double barrel is just sword with more damage, more range, no movement penalties, and overall better ttk.

[normal ice]

195+40 is 235 btw

yeah it's pretty strong. SH1900 is one of the few things I want nerfed

[true ravine]

its mostly pointless to do qm damage unless youre completely tapped out and still somehow in the fight. Theres no worthwhile BP after the 1st shot that couldnt be assuredly accomplished with a second shot

[normal ice]

True, but it matters if you know M is missing 15 HP or H is half HP and want to go for a oneshot. And it's just extra insurance if 195 would oneshot anyway

but yeah usually used after the second shot, not first

[true ravine]

i think it had that kind of BP before, 2 shot + qm. THough i cant remember whether it was for heavy or medium. It was a dumpster meme gun then

at the very least sword still retains its mobility and range. imo, the mid s4 nerf made the sword far more unusable then this dmg nerf

[wheat jetty]

I simply cant find the revolver fanning emote ..it must be a specialty ..looks incredibly cool

[misty elbow]

it was fine until sledge got nerfed imo, now shotguns are just better than all melee

speaking of like. thoughts on sledge post nerf all? how tf do you make this work, ive just ran it on kyoto and i get absolutely battered and even if i get kills i immediately trade because the ttk takes so long im at one health time i kill my opponent

oh also, if people want sh1900 nerfed, what would you even want changed?? if you make it not 2 shot its not really viable anymore

[sinful dagger]

Why nerf sh1900? One of the most balanced high risk high reward guns in the game. I guess after the sword nerf people needed another weapon to complain about

[zinc obsidian]

I do not see the ARN as viable in terms of decent dps. The two other smgs put out my dmg quicker and just cause you have better recoil doesn't mean the gun is good. I see emerald playing with the xp-54 more then the ARN. It needs some kind of dmg buff because I am just putting down the poor sod using it.
is it suppose to be a body shot weapon or headshot because the headshot even then is piss poor compared to the XP-54. It needs a dmg buff

[spare mesa]

I dont think people have problems with it itself just when it’s one of the only weapons now that can quickly kill every class. Best solution is reverting nerfs of sword sledge and whatnot

So if they’re gonna nerf everything that had good ttk cqc then that should’ve been one of the first

[misty elbow]

i think its oppressive now that other weapons are so far nerfed that they cannot contest it

[sinful dagger]

Agreed, the solution shouldn't be to nerf it though, but just buff those other weapons

Should revert sledge overhead and buff sword lunge to 125 at least

[timber sparrow]

sh1900 is fine if anything other weapons should be brought up to its power

[normal ice]

@sinful dagger I don't mind burst damage, but IMO the SH1900 is too much burst damage compared to other weapons, especially when you consider it's a shotgun that you can be fully mobile with and only need to hit bodyshots with.

I'm okay with it two-shotting Heavies, but with 195 damage, it two-shots Heavy (and Medium) with way, way too much leniency, especially when you throw in a quick melee after the second shot.

I would consider either nerfing its pellet damage from 13 to 12 so it does 180 damage (same as version 1 of the game, but still better reload time). That's still more than enough to 2-shot Heavy. Alternatively, give it a wider spread.

Fix the spread pattern while we're at it. Why the hell does every shotgun have symmetrical, orderly patterns except the SH1900?

[misty elbow]

fair enough

[sinful dagger]

I'd actually be fine with this combined with the spread fix

[misty elbow]

sledges overhead wasnt the issue, the problem with the nerf is that it invalidated quick melee combos which is why sledge was viable

[sinful dagger]

I think the quick melee combo against light is unfair combined with winch

unless winch is nerfed, sledge practically has a 12 meter one shot range for lights (without nerf)

[misty elbow]

but thats js a winch issue, winch is the problem, not sledge

but tbf the quick melee combo + lc was really hard to pull of when they had dash so

[sinful dagger]

I think nerfing winch would make it bad, so its better to find something that nerfs the combo, like a longer delay between winch and sledge

[tulip grove]

Would imply having to apply such a delay on every weapon tho.

And if this is strictly a melee thing, adding that delay to Spear.

[timber sparrow]

the devs hate melee

[magic mortar]

Playing as a heavy with the mesh shield and constantly running to protect teammates just for them to run out of the mesh shield... like... fine guess you don't want some help bruv

[tulip grove]

I just think Melee is kinda poorly balanced. Dagger gameplay works in TF2 because Spy doesn't have the mobility of a Light.

And the backstab reg is quite forgiving imo.

[normal ice]

Backstabbing is definitely feast-or-famine in this game, and it's really more about janky networking than sneaking up on or baiting enemies

I'm not going to sit here and pretend Dagger is OP or needs a nerf, but I honestly disagree with its fundamental design

[tulip grove]

I personally think it needs some sort of redesign since Light already has so many options to cover distance and reach one's backside beyond being sneaky.

Negating burst damage with utility is going to powercreep gamesense tho.

Say we reduce the dagger's backstab damage by an amount that allows it to be balanced at any angle reg, then give it a utility buff.

Would the change be too drastic?

This is where an experimental gamemode would come in handy ngl.

And by that I mean like Quick Cash or Tournament-formatted game mode which features experimental balance changes.

[normal ice]

Just spitballing -- maybe not so good in practice -- but I'd be kind of interested to see the backstab angle be more generous but not insta-kill. Make it percent-based so it nearly instakills -- like, does 99% damage of max HP -- then maybe add a lockout period so there's no instant quick melee two frames after.

So with just the tiniest chip damage, it's consistent and lethal. But you need coordination from your teammates for that lethality

[tulip grove]

In a vacuum, this sounds nice, but you gotta factor where a Light can source the rest of the damage needed to kill their target.

A huff of gas is enough to kill them off if it was 99%

[gilded shard]

Chat is M11 good or are there better options?

[normal ice]

Alternatively, it could get a backstab range buff like I said, but it does its 320 backstab damage through one instance of 100 damage and then another 220 damage over the course of one second (like a bleedout)

[tulip grove]

Doesn't really change up the counterplay.

That's effectively like the burning DoT condensed into a second.

[tulip grove]

M11 is incredibly strong, even in longer ranges. Simply is outshined by XP due to how much of a beam that weapon is.

[normal ice]

The counterplay is that you may be able to trade with Dagger by shooting them after they've confirmed your death. This would particularly incentivize using it stealthily, because as the Dagger, you will be less likely to GET STYLED UPON!! after landing a backstab

[tulip grove]

Yes, but the reaction time is very disproportionate between classes. Light gets no time, Medium barely gets to react and Heavy may be able to dome a Light. Either the DoT gets nerfed to like 100 dps over 2 seconds or just don't give it bleed at all.

[normal ice]

That was intentional on my part, because it's much harder to chase down a Light than it is a Heavy. Why use Dagger to instakill a Light if you can just do it with shotguns or rifles?

[tulip grove]

That is fair enough.

[boreal laurel]

If anyone is struggling with the “disrupt opponents’ movement” contract, I just found out that jump pad counts toward it (that is, if they use your jump pad, you get points toward the contract). Hope that helps someone 🤷‍♂️

[timber sparrow]

Lockbolt on powershift

[plucky spade]

I cannot for the life of me understand your position, projectile weapons are the best thing to happen in fps games in forever.

[unique notch]

projectile weapons have huge skill gap in any game

[rain sun]

Not the grenade launchers tbh

[normal ice]

CL-40's skill floor is low, but its skill ceiling is actually fairly high. It performs worse than Medium's hitscan options above Gold, though.

MGL32's skill floor is like the highest in the fucking game

[near scroll]

some love for our launchers

[swift agate]

a weapon having a low skill floor and high skill ceiling is usually called being unbalanced

same with the mgls high cieling and low floor except in the opposite direction

[normal ice]

Nah. The skill floor required to use something in an effective manner does not matter to anyone already above that skill floor. The increased performance that the weapon has as you scale up in skill and the maximum output the weapon has at its skill ceiling is usually more important.

If you balance everything based on the skill ceiling, that's called "trickle-down balancing." This is usually what stupid esports games like to balance around. But for casuals, it's usually better to balance somewhere more towards the average skill -- but not around the skill floor.

[near scroll]

how is easy to pick up hard to master unbalanced?

[swift agate]

this is completely untrue, because the skill floor doesn't just determine the minimum ability to perform with the weapon, it affects the general level of difficulty of that weapon. a higher skill floor will mean better players, even those who are well above that floor, will not perform as well with that weapon as they would if it had a lower skill floor. a weapon being easy and effective off the bat should not have a high potential to be even more effective.

risk-reward is a delicate balancing act. low risk weapons should net low reward, and high risk weapons should net high reward. if low risk weapons net high reward, there is just no reason to risk more

[near scroll]

thing is CL has both low skill floor and value floor, as in if you perform the base minimum required, you're gonna get very little value, so i don't think rewarding accuracy with higher damage is insane

[left kraken]

hi im new anyone know a fun loadout?

[swift agate]

I completely disagree that CL has a low value floor. it is not at all a difficult weapon to get value from. you deal substantial damage so long as you hit near an enemy

[near scroll]

the splash drop off disagrees. if you hit edge of splash you'll barely do 50dmg

[normal ice]

I don't think you understand the idea.

1. Something's skill floor and skill ceiling is irrelevant to its skill scaling. Just because something has a really low skill floor and a crazy high skill ceiling doesn't mean it will actually perform that much better at its skill ceiling. And how well the weapon performs relative to others at its skill floor or ceiling can be different, too.
2. Skill floor/ceiling doesn't directly correlate with risk. If you're comfortably at the skill floor, you're not really taking a big risk using the weapon. But it's true that, like you were getting at, it's usually accepted practice to make it so riskier playstyles can yield more performance.

[swift agate]

50 damage isn't nothing at the CLs firerate. that's enough to miss all of your pills and still 3 tap a light

[proper elbow]

I do agree quite a lot.

It feels frustrating to play a high risk - High Reward weapon, and get obliterated by something that require little skill what so ever

[indigo nexus]

It’s weaker than pretty much any non-shotgun weapon outside of CQC…

[near scroll]

missing all your pills = 0dmg
also if i take 5 nades to kill a light and he hasn't melted me in the meantime it's his problem not mine

[normal ice]

CL-40 shoots so slow that you can just back up and regen your little Light healthbar if you need to

[indigo nexus]

If you hit the edge you’ll do 1.

Explosive’s minimum damage was removed in season 3 iirc?

[normal ice]

Light's melees atm are high risk, nearly no reward lol

[near scroll]

true, i should've been more specific

[proper elbow]

Have you played as a light against it ? xD on most map you're dead before you even find cover

[swift agate]

if you consider splashing to be "hitting" your shots, I can understand why CL appeals to you. 3 tapping with the cl is roughly a ttk of 1.6 seconds, which is substantially faster than most light weapons ttks against a medium

[indigo nexus]

Pretty much anything can kill an unprepared light very quickly. The point is that due to their superior positioning ability / stealth they should not be getting surprised to begin with

[proper elbow]

Melee in general tbf

[normal ice]

Oh, I've played Light against a lot worse. Pike and Repeater

[tulip grove]

Solution: Nerf shotgun damage, give it headshot multiplier

Idk that's like the one thing I have in mind to stop S1900 from being so frustrating to play against.

[proper elbow]

Not even about surprise tbf. You just cannot fight them 1 on 1 as a light if you don't have high ground. (So melee is just screwed, or shotguns)

[near scroll]

bro CL-40 appeals to me cause it's a cool and fun projectile launcher with a lot of interaction in this sandbox game
i know how to aim and could just run ARs/revolver or smth but it's not as fun
don't try and get personal and assume stuff about me just cause i like using a certain weapon

[tulip grove]

Oh wait you meant M11. M11 is perfectly fine

[indigo nexus]

That is not “substantially faster.” That’s relatively slow

[proper elbow]

and even shotguns, like DB can just one click 200hp away, so ... it's fine to duel a CL

[proper elbow]

I'd rather play against sniper even as a melee, than a CL

[swift agate]

yeah, and most of light's weapons kill far slower than you think

[indigo nexus]

Why’d that make it better? It would just become worse to use and from the victim’s perspective, more inconsistent

[normal ice]

Maybe it's less likely you'll die in 2 to 3 shots, but those kids that play Finals for 20 hours every day won't be missing much lol

[indigo nexus]

You mean sniper and to a lesser extent recurve bow? Everything else is faster…

And that’s without headshots

Light weapons are generally superior to weapons on other classes

[swift agate]

when you hit your shots. remember, we're comparing this to a weapon when it doesn't hit its shots

[proper elbow]

Reward their skill at least even though some aims feels deeply suspicious.

I've seen people doing flicks behind them and target me way to quickly and accurately. Idk if i was in his FoV but wow it was weird. it litteraly snapped onto me

[near scroll]

also, your line about TTKs is just untrue ngl, in adequate ranges without headshots, throwing knives, 93r, matter, double barrel, m11, xp-54, ARN, and LH1 all kill faster than 1.6s

[indigo nexus]

A CL-40 is very prone to being unable to effectively hit when you play positioning well against it.

[normal ice]

Yeah, game has a cheating problem. I've gotten a couple banned with reports

[tulip grove]

Heavy's hitbox at S1900's ideal ranges is about as hard to miss as an elephant in a room.

[proper elbow]

The opposite is also true. If the CL as some IQ, he'll try to be in a way that his shot WILL be effective.

[near scroll]

when CL doesn't hit shots it can't 3 tap a light bro stop coping

[proper elbow]

2 tap*

Does the weapon not deal 100dmg per shot ? light has 150 hp

[swift agate]

hey, I'm just going off of your estimate of "barely 50 damage" on edge of splash. what's 50 x 3?

[indigo nexus]

But it is not symmetrical. The opponent’s weapon cannot be weakened in this way while theirs can, the best case scenario is a neutral one.

[near scroll]

100dmg per shot on direct hit

[near scroll]

if you're at the edge of splash radius you'll do 1dmg, less than 50dmg is my estimate for "bad" shots

[proper elbow]

even if it's not on direct it, as long as it's above 75, it 2 tap a light

[near scroll]

yeah but you need to aim the fucking gun to get that damage that's my whole point 😭

[proper elbow]

Im quite amazed you defend that weapon as a melee to begin with 😂

[normal ice]

It can be more like 50 a shot if you use Light's extra running speed, dashes, grappling hook, teleporting, or just jumping over explosions lol. They good at dodging.

Also, run in their face to make them kill themselves

[swift agate]

intersting, so a light goes down in 3 bad shots, or 1 bad shot and 1 good shot. yknow how much damage I do when I have a "bad" shot?

[near scroll]

people saying CL-40 "doesn't need to aim" are severely underrating the difficulty of projectile weapons and overestimating the difficulty of hitscan 😭

[proper elbow]

it is easier than a bullet as long as you know the curvature of the pellet

[near scroll]

when you play shotguns you get about 50dmg per bad shot as well lol

[near scroll]

i defend all weapons that are cool fun and unique, ergo not auto hitscans

[proper elbow]

Yeah fair enough, I despise the CL given how badly it counters me, hard for me to be objective against this one

this and glitch mine, and i cannot do shit the whole game

[near scroll]

ok lemme put it this way :
yes getting ANY AMOUNT OF DAMAGE is easier with CL
but consistently getting big chunks out of people's healthbars is easier with hitscan i'm sorry

[tulip grove]

Tbf casual players don't implement footsies/strafing as much to their movement as they should in a game like this.

The smaller corridors can also spell a death trap to those who do, but that's where maintaining distance comes to play.

[near scroll]

you said you play light melee right? i understand your frustration

[normal ice]

I love CL-40 and have used it to to at least rank 5, but... It's just so much easier to kill people with Medium's hitscan options. Even with extremely minimal practice, Revolver feels easier to me

[proper elbow]

Mostly yeah, i do a bit of hammer now and there, when dagger makes me want to punch a hole into my monitor

[near scroll]

the only difficulty in revolver is resisting the urge to go for headshots every single shot lol

[normal ice]

Truest shit I've read all night lol

[near scroll]

otherwise that shit is super strong in CQC, it's got nasty af hipfire so you can just keep your momentum while dinking people for 148

[tulip grove]

AKM feels liberating to use compared to CL's projectiles.

[proper elbow]

Not me missing every shot with revolver as im really bad with these kind of weapons

[near scroll]

the projectile nature of it limits you in so many situations, like fighting people that have height advantage on you

[proper elbow]

I tried Deagles, and was amazed at how easy it was to perform despite missing 80% of my shots..

i did get top kill in my first time using this weapon, with atrocious aim

[near scroll]

deagles my beloved 🥰

[proper elbow]

Same goes for throwing knives..

[near scroll]

double headshotting a light feels downright dirty ngl

[proper elbow]

I mean, once you main dagger, any weapon will fill better but Shield or Spear

[proper elbow]

Yeah, and their accuraccy is surprising good af

can snipe people from super far

[stiff vine]

they should only ask for a nerf after using the weapon themselves

[proper elbow]

True 100%

[tulip grove]

Fair enough. I should try dagger.

[proper elbow]

More than a quarter of a round

don't worry, weapon is ass. first few game will feel awful.

[tulip grove]

Is quick cash viable for testing it's viablility?

[proper elbow]

The amount of time, i saw an ally or ennemy try dagger because i did good on it that game, and i see them once or twice with the weapon before switching out

[proper elbow]

Why not, but it will be hard to deal with two team at once. WT would be better

(if you don't get assaulted by two team )

Weapon shine mostly to prevent stealing, dueling with it is much harder

[tulip grove]

with the few games I've head, that checks out

I am really not a fan of dash, so the best value I got out of those games was through being a healer and grenade slinger.

Maybe I'll do Throwing Knives/Grapple instead

[proper elbow]

Yeah Dagger is highly dependent on dash because of the slow you get once you charge up your back stab.

[proper elbow]

Does the weapon require another nerf in your opinion ?

[tulip grove]

I mean, it is really annoying when the backstab reg seems to go off at weird angles

Beyond that it isn't too broken

[proper elbow]

Yeah, it is a risky weapon after all.

Of course it has a big potential given it's huge burst damage, though it require to succeed landing a backstab

[hasty ridge]

Grapple dagger is the best way to go trust

[near scroll]

it's objectively funnier

[real mulch]

I just reach back on the game and they told me to do sum on discord but im not a big user of the app can someone help

Its for a skin i think ?

[trim sky]

Not gonna lie.
Cl-40 feels easier than revolver, because i can hipfire it without thinking where the shot should land. With the revolver i need a second of thought to point it in the right place at the right time.
Meanwhile sometimes it just feels like goat. 2-tapping lights is a cool feeling.

[dusky field]

Damn CL-40 is easier then Revolver? That's crazy

[stoic garden]

(it is)

[near scroll]

cl-40 lower skill floor higher skill ceiling than revolver

[oblique crypt]

It's super fun I'll give it that

[trim sky]

And how did you not know that?)

[trim sky]

I wonder if there is some knowledge that i don't know about the revolver.
Because before some point i didn't know hipfire from it is actually not affected by movement and is always accurate. The jumping, through...

[dusky field]

Sarcasm Mr

Im ass on Revolver now bc i played too much Spear and M26 Matter so ggs

[trim sky]

And at what point you decided to write that, when I answered another person talking, that revolver for him is easier?

[dusky field]

I just read your message its not that deep

[trim sky]

It's like answering without knowing the context.

[dusky field]

I know its exactly what i did.
Its not that deep

[wild hazel]

Nerf cl-40

[near scroll]

leave my boy CL-40 alone he didn't do nothin wrong 😭

[proper elbow]

I'd rather leave it like this than having to buff it

[grizzled jacinth]

I was told the 4 barreled shotgun was good on heavy, but it felt awful using it. Am I playing it wrong or should I be using other weapons?

[indigo nexus]

It is pretty good

kills lights and mediums within one burst

[weak kernel]

the shotguns in this game ask you to be pretty accurate, the 1216 is decent if you get yourself into range. it was nerfed pretty recently on damage output. shak-50 or the LMGs might be easier

[indigo nexus]

“Damage output” in general it was buffed on (better against heavies now, and better when not right in their face)

it was just nerfed in ttk against light (at point blank)

[near scroll]

yea i think ShAK is really nice right now

doesn't hit quite as hard in those point blank ranges but it still shreds close range and has some potential mid range

[exotic skiff]

It is the best heavy weapons rn. It's just take time to rlly master it because you need to hit every perfect shoot to be effective with it

[boreal laurel]

As shotties go, it’s solid but not easy, and it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. Cerby and Matter are easier if you want to play a shotgun, and for heavy weapons I would say use ShAK or one of the LMGs (or Deagles, if your aim is good)

[compact quest]

No more nerfs on anything. Stop begging for nerfs it's bad for the game. Just buff some underperforms stuff now. Or everything is gonna have a ttk of 5 seconds in a year

[mossy ibex]

Please buff the sledgehammer's damage. If a melee weapon is weaker than firearms at close range, then it becomes completely meaningless

[near scroll]

reduce CL-40 visual and audio clutter and make it easier to tell where you're getting naded from

[gritty swallow]

I realy hope they buff the ks in some way cause the utility it has is realy nice but idk how they would buff it without making it to strong

[placid slate]

Adjusting how the cl40 feels to get hit by would also help it feel less annoying too

[arctic compass]

Sledgehammer is no more, embrace Spear supremacy

[placid slate]

Hell yea

We getting fair sledge vs spear 1v1s now

[arctic compass]

Never switched on my bb since day 1

Still feel like they need to rework left click because the spin feels clunky now that you cant slide with it anymore :/

[placid slate]

Left click wouldn't be bad if the fucking lunge bug didn't exist

[near scroll]

yeah i think if every aspect of it that's just annoying and or cluttery was tuned down people would complain about it a lot less

[merry imp]

This is what i use to carry all the horrible lights in power shift. It's hard but someone has to do it 😔

[thick holly]

I doubt anyone knows the answer but, does anyone know how much longer the flamethrower takes to kill Riot Shield when the shield is blocking?
Im a RS main and im curious if it's something worth doing to stall for my teammates

[sullen lark]

Use dematerilizer

[merry imp]

That sucks for power shift man

[thick holly]

I'm not sure how useful demat is in powershift honestly

[sullen lark]

For normal

[merry imp]

Yea of course in ranked im dematerializing

I been playing alot of power shift lately though

[thick holly]

demat is cool, it's just not my play style personally

yeah powershift is super fun

[terse gorge]

what u playing

[merry imp]

That was a quick game they couldn't get me out the kart

[thick holly]

I usually play support, so I've been playing heal beam

[terse gorge]

cause healbeam useless

[thick holly]

Heal beam has worked out super well for me

[placid slate]

Does it block the damage but still light you on fire?

[merry imp]

Its good it's just that no one gets in the kart to get healed

[thick holly]

It blocks the projectile damage of the flamethrower, just not the fire damage

[placid slate]

Just gotta find fire dps then

[thick holly]

oh yeah true

[merry imp]

If you and the flamethrower fight evenly you win so might as well just hit him since you always win that

[thick holly]

Also since I play melee, it's a great way for me to support my team at long ranges

[thick holly]

Flame thrower HARD counters riot shield

[merry imp]

Its even

[thick holly]

I've only won against flame throwers when they were less than half health, and I was left with only 20 health or less at the end

Forgot to specify, I have to be on full health and they have to be less than half

I might just have to practice it more, but I always get destroyed by flame

[merry imp]

I haven't used the riot shield in a while its 4 hits right or 4 hits with a melee? I forgot

[arctic compass]

Shield is never winning against flamethrower unless you have health advantage or the flamethrower player had no thumbs

[thick holly]

Light - 2 hits
Medium - 3 hits
Heavy - 4 hits

[merry imp]

Nah man you just run into him and hit him its so easy

[thick holly]

Exactly, that's why I'm curious if blocking is an option to stall for my teammates if I know I'm gunna die

[merry imp]

He mises because you're running into him but you dint mis because he takes up so much space you just turn your camera and swing

[arctic compass]

Although, when i used to use shield alot i ran it with smoke grenades so when i got counter swapped i could negate burn dmg

[thick holly]

Way easier said than done

Yeah having smoke is the only reliable way to have a fair fight with riot vs flame

[arctic compass]

Nah, if you have teammates to help just swing at the heavy if not you will probably die xd

[thick holly]

Yeah fair

[placid slate]

No fingers in general, they could be on pc

[thick holly]

It's probably a very big edge case where I'd have to use it

[humble ice]

Tbh I loved playing support medium in OB to S1 until all the nerfs got dumped on the healing beam. The damn thing doesn't even support in combat anymore and soured my attitude to playing any amount of support because of how underpowered it feels now

[thick holly]

Fair enough, it just works well for my playstyle

[merry imp]

Its good if you have players that are reliable but playing alone it's rough

[thick holly]

yeah if you have teammates that don't stay with you, it's extremely rough

I've had games where teammates run away from me despite me trying to heal them

[rapid ingot]

the ks23 deserves a head shot multiplier because its a single shot and a faster fire rate

[terse gorge]

then we get into the same situation with melee where people figure out combos and the they nerf it

[placid slate]

They should remove the damage drop-off it would be very funny

[terse gorge]

Approved

[arctic compass]

Shotgun buffs, in this economy?

[terse gorge]

KS is not a normal shotgun

[placid slate]

Slug shotgun, its essentially the same ad the sniper but with rounds reload

[terse gorge]

Its a queen under pawns lol

[rapid ingot]

if its ment for close range why does it suck at that range ?

[humble ice]

Because you're supposed to suffer I think

[placid slate]

It's dps is faster than the akm so it isn't the worst

Nvm mixed up the ttk

Gut the akm

[arctic compass]

Yeah i know =3= just a joke since its categorized as one ingame

[arctic compass]

Its close/mid range it also provides utility since you can makes holes in the map with 2 shots

[thick holly]

I need to try shotguns more

[arctic compass]

Rage-bait in pubs with dash/DB you will be public enemy #1

[placid slate]

Do nor use cerb, it turns the user into a lobotomite

[thick holly]

The fact you're using that term specifically is going to make me use it

But honestly I feel more comfortable at close range (which is probably why I like melee), so shotguns might work well for me

[rapid ingot]

Idk peeps i still feel the ks23 needs something its just not where it needs to be i almost never see it in world tour or quick play

[arctic compass]

Theres just easier/better weapons in the heavy category thats why its not popular, ks23/Winch is still HEAVILY underrated though :3

[quartz marlin]

😮 a fellow melee/close quarters fan!

[thick holly]

Oh yeah also speaking of winch. I had no idea Riot Shield could actually block Winch, only found that out recently

[thick holly]

Yup lol

[quartz marlin]

i’m having a hard time relearning the game rn lol

[thick holly]

I see

[quartz marlin]

words are hard

[arctic compass]

Riot can but mesh shield cannot, truly a harsh world we live in ;-;

[thick holly]

well I mean it kinda makes sense

Cuz riot shield is basically just a portable wall, and you can't walk through a wall

Or winch through a wall

[arctic compass]

But you can melee through the “wall” and do full dmg :(

[thick holly]

Yeah, they really need to work on hit registration for blocking melee

Cuz the only melee block I've seen it do is against other riot shield

I think because most other melees have lingering hitboxes, which just cancels out the riot shield block completely

[thick holly]

This is the main thing I think riot shield needs. Other than that it feels like it's in a good spot

Damage is in a really good spot

[arctic compass]

Mhm mhm its niche but has its place, I love my silly melee weapons

[thick holly]

Yeah cuz sometimes the bullet blocking can feel a little weird sometimes. But I feel it's more that the other person just has good aim/knows where to aim

[merry imp]

Its so cool to disrespectfully attach a zip line into where people are defending the cashout and zip in but my shield is up so maybe they should have been hitting the zip line instead and now I'm running around ruining all their plans n stuff

[thick holly]

But movement tech with the riot shield is SO fun

yeah it may not be completely "viable" in competitive, but it's genuinely one of the most fun weapons

[thick holly]

Lol, love to see it

[thick holly]

There's been some games where I just ran around a light for long enough that my natural health regen kicked in. If they're gunna dash away constantly then I'm gunna waste their time

[merry imp]

I like putting the aps on a can so it's already out when I see someone

[thick holly]

Lol

[cunning crown]

my god why do people want to nerf the cl so badly, its not even a good medium weapon. Plus it also deals a lot of self damage ( half a mediums health ) so you can counter it by going close to them or just using aps. I feel like meaby they could remove the visual cluter it creates but apart from that the cl is fine

i mean the main reason its picked a lot now is that the other light counters got nerfed and suck now

[thick holly]

People were talking about it earlier in chat. I think it's mainly because it's not fun to play against

[cunning crown]

no offense but it does sound like a skill issue tbh. I think the only change needed is just remove the visual cluter and thats it. I dont really see why it should be nerfed, besides it can also be hard countered by APS so

[thick holly]

Yeah it should definitely be a bit more clear, which I guess is a nerf in a way

[cunning crown]

and to make it show up less they should just buff other light counters that way people are able to choose other stuff and it is still viable

[thick holly]

It should definitely be similar to the sniper (where it has some sort of a trail behind it)

[cunning crown]

i mean there already is , i guess its hard to hit with the particles after it hits something

[thick holly]

CL40 is one of my main weapon's counters, but I don't even find it that annoying to play against

Could just be because I'm not playing against CL40 mains, but it doesn't feel that bad for me to play against

[cunning crown]

its honestly really annoying because lights just asking for nerfs to their counters when they are not needed.

[thick holly]

Yeah it is a bit annoying, but I just gotta change up how I play a bit

[cunning crown]

like if they can two tap any class its fine but if it happens to them then its a problem. Like light is meant to be a glass cannon , cmon.

Also embark should revert the sledge nerf

[acoustic hornet]

This might be a dumb question, but is it better to not let the healing beam overheat and pause just before?

[thick holly]

I'm not sure, i'll actually have to try to test that at some point

[crisp grove]

any console snipers here?

[arctic compass]

On occasion i dabble

[crisp grove]

how are you with it? im interested in dabbling in it too

[compact quest]

Light is slowly becoming the strongest class because light players are the most vocal about things they don't like

[arctic compass]

I like to think im pretty okay with it but i find it to be situational on the map. I run it in reserves with my 93r, I prefer to use it defensively to defend cashouts and teamshoot with my teammates to burst down enemies pretty quickly,

Um um um, i pair it with grapple and use frag/pyro nades to soften enemies up so it takes less shots to get an elim

[crisp grove]

oh fair ye

[arctic compass]

Goo’s are good to run with it also in case you find yourself in a bad spot and grapple is on cooldown, gives you time to regen or just break line of sight to catch them off gaurd again

Tbh you should try it yourself and find a loadout that fits your playstyle best, none of the weapons in this game are completely throw picks unless your playing at the highest elo

[thick holly]

Yeah that's one thing I like about this game. In casual, all weapons are viable

[crisp grove]

me too, i love the dagger

[final forum]

without overheat its 10 second recharge, 15 second with overheat. i think lol

[normal ice]

@whole jolt @swift drum
#👂┇game-feedback message
Stop comparing a Heavy gadget to a Medium weapon. Thanks.

[merry imp]

Its annoying

[knotty garnet]

talk

[naive glacier]

hella

insta dying to a litteral fly that you can't see coming

[dusk terrace]

Tracking dart buff when💔💔

[knotty garnet]

text

[thick holly]

Turn tracking dart into an instakill weapon

[dusk terrace]

Heck yeah

[wintry pumice]

Yo what sight should i put on my Famas?

[magic sandal]

Any grapple + dagger tips? Ik dash is the better pair but i prefer grapple just as an overall specialization

[knotty garnet]

Acog

[merry imp]

It should do 2 damage on a headshot

[thick holly]

Lol

I'm guessing it currently does 1 damage?

[blazing flume]

I’ve managed to get an elim with it once so probably higher

[thick holly]

Lol nice

Also I like your profile picture @blazing flume

[tired salmon]

Anybody have problems with dead slides? Idk if it’s my keyboard or what but I’ll be full sprint for 5 seconds, hit c/ctrl and just crouch. It happened 3 times in a row last night. Maybe I’m just washed

[digital lynx]

The grav cube should have a toggle ability that would make it actually useful\

[merry imp]

Its taking so long to level my aps up someone gimme a tip

[thick holly]

Only idea I would have is spam place and pick up lol. I would imagine they have something in place to prevent that though

[stiff vine]

hope for cl-40/mgl on enemy team then spam it on them

[merry imp]

Nah yea that's what you have to do or it gets destroyed quickly

[merry imp]

If i get 2 or 3 cl40's every gamenill be very happy it happens once in a while

[stiff vine]

you can also pick up the aps and place it back down to refill the health

[merry imp]

Yea i also carry one with me on a can so it's already out if someone tried to rocket or grenade me it gets destroyed coz I'm carrying it and if I just regularly drop it my gun comes out pretty quick instead of throwing it but I can do that too

[placid slate]

5 damage

[tender python]

I haven't played the new update yet is hammer dead or just nerfed?

[stiff vine]

murdered

[tender python]

Thought so, that's a shame

[stiff vine]

terrible, on par with spear

[placid slate]

Nerfed, not dead

Sledge players are just very dramatic

[weak python]

I'm very new to the game but don't you think all classes having all weapons would be cool? I have skins for a weapon but I don't main that weapon's class and I wish I could use it for my main lol

[placid slate]

Fucking light with a sledgehammer? Hell nah

[tender python]

Na light with Cerberus would be horrifying

[weak python]

right, okay, that's fair

I'm talking about the ranged weapons lol

[tender python]

No, the light is built around the concept of dealing high damage with low HP, so there weapons have to deal more damage. If other classes had light weapons light would not be viable.

[weak python]

hmm, right, that would require a lot of balancing and whatever (got refuted so quick lmao)

[tender python]

How is it not dead, the ttk is over halfed for most matchups is it not?

[tender python]

Your all good, it makes sense from the standpoint of wanting to use skins but not having the experience yet to confidently play all the classes yet

[stiff vine]

ttk for every class increased because quickmelee combos got zapped

[placid slate]

Ttk is not halved outside of light attacks on light

[stiff vine]

and you can no longer even kill anyone most of the time because they can just turn and run away

[placid slate]

If literally every other melee player can play the game as they are, sledge players can play the game while being at the top of them

[stiff vine]

only one you can get semi consistant is heavy

[placid slate]

Little bit of a skill issue honestly

Especially since sledge isn't really affected by the slide bug

[stiff vine]

the fact that sledge existed for so long pre nerf shows that they could buff other melees

[placid slate]

That is correct, but sledge players act like its the end of the world while still being head and shoulders above all melees still

[stiff vine]

whatever you say mr."my KD isnt bad i just use bad weapons"

[tender python]

Wait hold on can we get some numbers instead of just throwing insults, what are the actual ttk changes

[weak python]

melee is too op for tdm tho, i get killed by them real often

[stiff vine]

i think there are numbers

[stiff vine]

thats because anything can work in tdm

[restive plover]

So is the m11 just the best overall option for new to intermediate players or am I just not good with other weapons?

[blazing flume]

I wouldn’t say it’s the best

[placid slate]

Light went from left click qm to left click twice, medium is mostly the same with right click left click, heavy no longer dies to two right clicks

[stiff vine]

try the ARN or XP54 on light
AKM or FCAR on medium
M60 on heavy

those are the most player friendly for new people

[weak python]

I'm liking the Flamethrower/Minigun for Heavy, FCAR for Medium and the SMG for Light, can't remember the name of it

[stiff vine]

sledge has a longer ttk than spear for lights

[restive plover]

Gotcha. I like the ARN more than the XP-54 so far haven’t even touched heavy yet I’m just a movement frog

[stiff vine]

fair

[tender python]

I would look up some tec videos for flamethrower if you haven't already, it can be important for getting better with the weapon

[stiff vine]

when you learn flame sliding and goo locking you will feel so cool

[weak python]

tec videos?

[placid slate]

Right click would kill faster than 3 spear stabs or 2 spins

The only thing that held back spear from pre nerf sledge was 5 damage

[stiff vine]

2 stabs 1 qm

[tender python]

Look up flamethrower tech the finals on YouTube

[stiff vine]

and rightclick is super easy to dodge for lights

[weak python]

thanks, I'll do that!

[placid slate]

So is spear left clicks since the slide bug stops you from chasing

[stiff vine]

if you want i can also teach you some because i also love flamethrower

[tender python]

What is slide bug?

[placid slate]

Attacking while sliding cancels the slide and kills your momentum and stops sprints, the frequency scales with lunge distance, which spear has the highest value

[weak python]

I can't find anything lol, are they from a person called yogiro or?

[weak python]

sure, I'd appreciate some tips

[tender python]

Can you get him a good vid on it?

[stiff vine]

i can make a couple of clips

[tender python]

Do you know any tutorials? (I also have wanted to learn flamethrower for a bit tbh)

[stiff vine]

i dont know any solid yt tutorials but i can make up some

[crisp grove]

why

[tender python]

Ok thx

[crisp grove]

ig so, just have better awareness tho

[stiff vine]

here made a short clip of how you can use goo while fighting with flamethrower

[crisp grove]

oh hell no 😅

[stiff vine]

?

[crisp grove]

i just imagine being on the recieving end of that

[tender python]

Oh na that's devious, I love it

[crisp grove]

yeah same

i just hope IM not the recipient but tbh if i got hit with that I'd say kudos to the creativity

[tender python]

What is flame sliding?

[restive plover]

That’s incredibly devious

[stiff vine]

you can see quite a few tactics with flame.

1. every once in a while i slide mid fire by stopping my flame for a moment in order to confuse the enemy.
2. the first flame particle deals more damage over time than the following ones so sometimes its better to just tag them then move or goo.
3. im shooting goo at the head so that the enemy cant hit me and are also stuck

this shows #2 a bit better and is how a lot of high level players play with flamethrower

[tender python]

Can't you do that in a much simpler way with shield?