💣┇weapons-gadgets

[shell sonnet]

it shouldnt be a "failed attempt at 100 things" gadget
(not saying it would necessarily be bad, i just dont think it works)

i would just increase its duration a little more

[muted halo]

now the question becomes should it go trough shields? l think no

[distant verge]

I think the thermal vision would still be cool though

[shell sonnet]

yeah not really
also a small buff towards having glitch

[muted halo]

glitch on hit would be way too strong

[shell sonnet]

i wonder

would LLM with double taser and cl-40 be viable with this rework?

just open up, let em crack lightning and thunder to follow

[muted halo]

l think the thermal vision would make it straight up outclass the thermal vision gadget so no too

[distant verge]

What if it pierced through walls? Like you throw a sonar grenade in a building, it gives you an idea of all their positions, then you mark them making it so the tracking lasts way longer than it would have, or you could just use it to check if someone is behind a wall, either way I think it would be pretty cool.

[muted halo]

hard to say. but l feel players would use it more with range options, although CL-40 interaction would be funny, no ideia how strong

[muted halo]

what l was refering with this isnt the taser shot itself, but the effect radius

[shell sonnet]

in which case the light is away from their team and risks dying alone, might be balanced

[shell sonnet]

i kinda assumed that, still agree

[muted halo]

since its a gun l would expect line of sight to add counterplay to it, piercing walls would be against that no?

[distant verge]

Maybe, but relinquishing it of a weakness every gun has could be a way to make it a good gadget, plus it probably wouldn't be able to peirce none destructive surfaces and to combat it maybe it can't see shoot through goo

You have to remember this is a hard tool to make broken

[muted halo]

if those values were overtuned it would be effective to team comps that normally don't clamp up as much as those

[distant verge]

Plus sonar grenade literally lets you see through walls anyways,

[muted halo]

l know, the thing is sonar nade stays in a area and can be broken by shooting, the dart is stuck to someone once hit and they are the wall hack source that can move, but requires line of sight and is only to one player

[distant verge]

I'm open to suggestions, the point is that the way it is currently isn't viable, even if you increase it's duration it still isn't worth it, even if it had infinite ammo it still wouldn't be worth holding over any weapon, and no one would be satisfied with it if it just did a lot more damage.

[muted halo]

it was overtuned at some point in my opinion, look at those prior patches states. when it had more duration and ammo and ammo regen you could perma wallhack someone in line of sight crossmap

[muted halo]

reverting one of those would be a change to improve it without making it annoying/ as powerful prior to season 4

[distant verge]

Thanks for the info

[hybrid heath]

I miss OG RPG

[glossy helm]

Is the proximity sensor any good?

[muted halo]

its still good

[distant verge]

Yeah

[obsidian nexus]

and then they call this "skill expression" also macro'ing gadget swapping xD sword-dash needs to stop

[final geyser]

Day 5 of asking for a Spear buff:
Among many of the Spear’s problems, one of the most noticeable when using it is it's shockingly low DPS. Here is a list of guns that can out TTK the spear in Melee range while also being able to do damage from range.

Spear:
Light - Medium - Heavy
1.80s - 2.50s- 3.20s

Heavy v Heavy:
.50 Akimbos: 1.83 > 3.2
Lewis Gun: 1.6 > 3.2
M60: 1.6 > 3.2
KS-23: 2.47 > 3.2
SA1216: .80 > 3.2
SHAK-50: 1.57 > 3.2
MGL32: 2.67 > 3.2

Medium v Heavy:
AKM: 1.7 > 2.5
CL-40: 2.3 > 2.5
FCAR: 1.4 > 2.5
Model 1887: 1.6 > 2.5
R .357: 1.6 > 2.5
Pike-556: 2.1 > 2.5
Cerberus-12: 1.8 > 2.5

Light v Heavy:
93R: 1.64 > 1.8
V9S: 1.33 > 1.8
M11: 1.26 > 1.8
XP-54: 1.48 > 1.8
LH1: 1.5 > 1.8
SH1900: .75 > 1.8
M26 Matter: 1.41 > 1.8

Note: These damage numbers come from patch 1.5.5 and takes into account only body shot numbers. The spear numbers come from its M1 standard attack, not the spin. I just wanted to illuminate that even when Spear has the first shot on another player, how often they lose. Thank yall embark for continuing to do an amazing job on my favorite game and please consider buffing the spear in any capacity!

[hardy dust]

Spear def needs a buff but the point of melee is to combo, so the numbers are a bit skewed

The secondary attack really needs some love

[shell mirage]

Guys are anyone’s sonar grenades not working? Some games they work but others the ping goes off but I look around everywhere and I can’t see who it’s highlighting

[royal thicket]

Embark can you please fix the insane amount of riot shield bugs? It's been like this since S1 and it actually has gotten worse over time so please just do your god damn job and fix it

[distant verge]

It could be a couple of things, sonar works on people above and below you and thus even if you look around you can still miss it, also it could be because sonar doesn't ping through smoke bombs, and the effect is hardly noticeable when you're face to face with them, so it could be bugged but there are alternatives.

[peak monolith]

Could we get rid of the second sonar nade?

[placid slate]

What if the dart when it hits someone is off by default, but can be turned on later when they try to run away? Weird ass idea but I think it would make it more useful

[placid slate]

I think the secondary should do 1 spin per input instead of 3, would make it way more enjoyable to use since you can use the secondary attack along with the primary and quick melees to do combos and stuff, which would be more entertaining than just sitting there spinning or spamming spin cancels

You could still spam 3 spins obviously but I think this would be a more comfortable solution than just a official spin cancel

[peak monolith]

You could make the single nade pulse a fourth time and possibly at a slower rate, so its better at the concentrated area denial instead of how it's used now where both just get spammed out to recon an entire 1/5 of the map.

[misty elk]

How can I counter Lockbolt as Light?

[placid slate]

It can be destroyed if shot enough

[peak monolith]

Pray for God's mercy

[misty elk]

Not practical. At least not with bow or sniper.

[distant verge]

It is if you are at range

[misty elk]

Best way I know right now is teleport but you need to have it ready prior.

[distant verge]

Goo grenade I guess, instant barrier between yourself and the enemy so you can break the lockbolt before they eliminate you, doesn't really work when dealing with melee enemies or if they are above you, it's situational but if you are having trouble with lockbolt specifically than teleport or goo grenade are the way to go.

[waxen fiber]

isn't still good, it is just good, because previously it was insanely overpowered and broken, basically “WIN” button

[tough prairie]

Best way to counter a bunch of Heavy players' things is the Medium's Data Reshaper. Too bad it got nerfed to having two charges instead of three. But hey, the power to instantly erase a lockbolt is useful. That and barricades.

[strange kelp]

What are the best items for each class? I haven't played in a while

[chilly jewel]

Experiment

[tranquil rose]

You know, some food for though, what about futuristic weapons in the next season?
Like lasers and stuff, cuz right now I can't think of any 'unique' weapons they could've add that wouldn't be like...a medium SMG for example.

Like a Tommy gun

Or more like out-of-box type guns, like a shooting gautlet, fire ball staff etc etc

[icy sparrow]

@formal schooner the gun in fragpunk has full auto,if we could switch between the two then it be better but the burst window is too short

[formal schooner]

the actual 93R only comes with burst or single-fire as far as I'm aware (I'm sure with enough modifications anything is possible) but, I do think it would be interesting to give light a machine pistol of some kind.

the shot spacing on the 93R is definitely kind of fucky though, that would also be a nice change

[icy sparrow]

Let’s not get stuck on realism on a this game,not a tarkov server u know

[icy sparrow]

Exactly

[formal schooner]

that's why I said "with enough modifications anything is possible", I've never seen it in full-auto but it wouldn't surprise me to find that someone has done it.

[icy sparrow]

Plz make the proper comment on suggestion thread and edit ur response to mine

[junior plaza]

I find sonars will only go through one wall in every horizontal direction (unless there’s a hole or doorway) but will go through as many barriers vertically. You can see this on Vegas or sys the best but there’s some other parts to I also only got this information form me playing so it might not be right

[icy sparrow]

I am not sure if u too my word for it but the fragpunk varient feels perfect so does the butterfly knife animation

[formal schooner]

no, I believe you. I just haven't played Fragpunk yet, it looks like a ton of fun though. I also think a butterfly knife skin for the dagger would be dope.

[icy sparrow]

YouTube exists
I haven’t played fragpunk either

Also plz edit ur response to me in suggestion thread

As in what modifications would be better instead of cod comparison

[formal schooner]

I did, I talked about two separate changes that I think would help the weapon and then added a little fun fact at the end. I was a huge fan of the Renetti in MW2019 and I think that voicing that comparison gives a good idea of what I'm after when I say I want a 93R buff, especially considering that they both use the same real-life firearm as a baseline. I gave suggestions, AND a comparison.

it's not just for you, it's also for anyone who happens across it a little tidbit for some flavor, if you will.

[icy sparrow]

It’s plain not fun to use a damage buff isn’t it but a longer burst window with less time between burst sound better

[icy sparrow]

For accuracy v9s is a better choice but 93r is just weird with the abrupt stops in between burst

[formal schooner]

sometimes the best changes are the easiest to implement. I think either a buff to the damage or shortening the time between bursts would help the feel of the gun immensely.

[icy sparrow]

Exactly the in between time of burst is too much

[formal schooner]

I'm not sure which because I don't have access to the tools to test that but I do agree that the time between bursts is too long for a game with such a short ttk.

[royal pier]

The Torpedo is showing promise.

[royal pier]

Wasn't a direct hit, gotta set it up with goo to where they have to stand in one spot to steal.

o

[weak kernel]

i understand that getting killed quickly with weapons with lower aim requirements is annoying but all I can think when I see clips like this is "yeah that was enough time to kill the light"

between cerb and that .40 headshot TTK on a target comin right at you

[errant pawn]

are dual blades good?

[royal pier]

Except Light has Vanish Bomb and Gateway to get the drop on people far easier than, say, Heavy with Spear.

[weak kernel]

yeah but at that point that's just like, the point of light

[royal pier]

Except Dagger can't multi-hit and has to hit the back to do big damage. Sword has far fewer limitations.

Dagger also punished misses far more. Sword you can jiggle around to compensate for a miss.

[weak kernel]

and dagger's a bad weapon and sword is generally considered "annoying," not "meta"

[royal pier]

Doesn't make it not a problem.

Gonna have to test this in a real match @weak imp .

[strong lagoon]

dud

[stiff drum]

I'm just starting to use my heavy. What's a good first weapon purchase?

[coral root]

shAk-50 or deagles

[stiff drum]

Thank you

[magic prairie]

Minigun

Its not the best but damn is it fun

[stiff drum]

Ohh... I do like to suppress my enemies.

[gaunt terrace]

Air element idea

https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/4OLA8KgsaW

[opal cedar]

Lewis is good too

[restive plover]

What is the worst gun in the game right now

[boreal laurel]

Probably spear, MGL, or dual blades

[young pewter]

Ah yes, the spear, my favorite gun 🔥🔥

[near scroll]

if you think about it the spear thrusts are like pointy metal bits flying at you... close enough lol

[true ravine]

@nova surge oh i misunderstood your statement. I thought you meant 1 lunge to kill a medium currently (which is true). My solution aims to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I dont see the sword itself as a problem since only skilled players can make it work without some kind of movement advantage added on top. What i see to be a bigger problem is how dash is used across the board. Its insanely annoying to track and typically has enough charges for a light to both get in and out of the fight with a kill even with mistakes. I dont think its combat capability should be that high.

I correct myself on the solution being simpler (it is almost the same as changing numbers to me from a programming perspective) but i do believe its better for the server since threading for such actions will ultimately lower. its likely a minor or even miniscule improvement ngl but it might also have a benefit of more accurately reflecting player actions

For skill ceiling, I was extrapolating from your comment about the 3x lunge against heavy. Stating that its essentially ok to nerf the damage bp for heavies because a majority of players 3x lunge still ultimately boils down to reducing skill expression and hence the skill ceiling

I think when it comes down to rez consequences and whether its unfair to be OHK, i do think its unfortunate that if you compare the results of the sword with other weapons that have similar engagement styles like shotguns, youll see that mediums basically have no hope of living through it if the enemy team isnt thoroughly displaced or is in range of the fight. Sure you might not be OHK but your hp would be below qm range which will typically mean death in a team fight. The multihit is a problem imo for the sword. I think it should be at the very least capped to 2 people instead of potentially infinite number of targets as long as theyre within range

just to add on a bit to qm. It could be that ive played melee since CB1. But landing a qm on mediums and heavies in a combo is extremely easy

you can even land the qm in nearly the same tick as the lunge hit

basically making it impossible to avoid

[icy sparrow]

@indigo nexus actually the ks23 already breaks small holes

[indigo nexus]

It’s no different to anything else… those holes are big enough for a heavy to go through.

Terrain can only be destroyed in discrete chunks, which are decently sized

if you want to prevent the breach charges breaking more than one chunk at a time, ok, but that does make them visually unintuitive as the destroyed area will not line up well with the location of the charge

[heavy pier]

Anyone help me rn, which pike skin should I buy? NOW. 😭😭

[obsidian nexus]

orf

[gentle frigate]

I just got repeatedly one-shot by a light with a dagger as heavy. 4 times. Only one hit with dagger and immediately melee. What am I meant to do in terms of counterplay to that when the light still being visible on my screen somehow still counted as a backstab??? Full hp, no other interference from anyone else. Just one light dagger with immediate quick melee after

[royal thicket]

Sorry but sword doesn’t need skill to work. Sword has one of the most forgiving hitregs I’ve ever seen and is a bad joke compared to the riot shield (different topic but fix the bugs Embark). Sword has high dps and a low skill ceiling, making it unfun to play against. Dash allows for quick movement and the biggest flaws of dash you already pointed out. My idea for a sword nerf is locking the direction the player is looking at while doing the lunge. You‘re not supposed to make a 90 degree turn when performing that and this part of sword is by far the most annoying one so by locking the players looking direction you increase the skill ceiling while still having the same amount of dps

[small panther]

I thought the Moolah weapon/gadget charm would actually Moo in game, now im a bit disappointed

[near scroll]

it does when you get an elim iirc

[small panther]

oh, I put it on my defib and explosive mine

[near scroll]

oh lol, u could technically hear it tho

[small panther]

I thought the Moo sound would play when I just switched to that weapon/gadget, im gonna try to put it on my weapon now

[royal thicket]

@smoky jackal you AI slop user if you think my take is so bad come here and tell my why

[smoky jackal]

i got that from an album cover. thanks though, boy.

[royal thicket]

Damn art was that bad before AI? Humans fell of ngl Embark buff them

[smoky jackal]

the finals has a decent amount of AI in it, lad

[near scroll]

sadly

[royal thicket]

Anyway, why you think my take‘s so dogsh*t?

[mossy flax]

Wtf are you even talking about dude

[royal thicket]

Bro just reacted with a clown emoji and didn’t elaborate why he thinks my idea for a sword nerf deserved that. So I want that man to tell me why. Who knows, maybe my take is bad after all, I just wanna know

Although he seems to be an edgy sword main so I don‘t expect logical thinking nor an actual response from him

[weak kernel]

the sword debate just feels like an extension of the light debate in general where people don't want to deal with an evasive pick class that aim checks you

[royal thicket]

People don‘t actually hate light, they hate dash. There‘s a post on reddit explaining everything in detail (great post, check it out) and although I don‘t agree with everything the guy says it‘s 99% of it
Post: https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/sFwFOqJ6dV

[smoky jackal]

i put 1 emote and you came at me all angry but im the edgy one? bruh?

[royal thicket]

Tell my why my take is so bad, then you can trashtalk

[modest ice]

Kinda new but I dont get why people think dash is so good ngl if you know the enemy has it and have seen them use it before you should be able to predict it or if you have played some boss fighting games where ai enemies can do that you can kinda predict the path the dasher is going to take idk take my opinion with a grain of salt tho im only level 50 and only like 4 days played so maybe I just dont see how its so good

[smoky jackal]

the hit reg on sword isnt as forgiving as you stated. it has a lot variation depending on the surface you are fighting on. any bit of a sloped surface can cause no regs. sword takes the highest amount of positioning the game has outside of dagger atm. yeah the aim isnt needed 99% of the time but you need to know how to engage/disengage while knowing the map layout to have any consistency w/ the weapon. your change would make the skill ceiling actually lower because all the variation that comes with lunge now will just be a predictable straight lunge

[icy sparrow]

Oh yeah I see ur point,make it not be a damage dealer but have it be throw quicker for escape or blow wall from below enemies quickly

See if u like this idea #👂┇game-feedback message

[royal thicket]

I‘m sorry but this is just wrong.
First up, if you think the sword doesn’t have forgiving hitreg, go play riot shield for one world tour match and you will know what an unforgiving hitreg is.
Second, know the map is not something related to sword but every weapon in general and, again riot shield, takes much more positioning than sword.
Third, disengaging is just pressing a button and you fly with mach 3 out the window. And knowing the map layout is not required to perform with sword. Yes, for good consistency, but a weapon needs to be beyond broken to not need that.
Fourth, locking the players direction will not lower the skill ceiling as you wouldn’t be able to adjust for mistakes you made when lunging, making it less forgiving.

[smoky jackal]

ive played riot shield and found it to have better registration than sword but ok

[royal thicket]

Longer than 10 minutes?

[smoky jackal]

all you are doing is being condescending and not even considering other points. not worth the time

[sand monolith]

Sword is literally fine but evasive dash needs a rework

[royal thicket]

It was an actual question, I wasn’t trying to be mean

But saying you found riot shield to be more forgiving just doesn’t make sense cause it literally has one less hitreg scan than the other melee weapons

This message you can‘t react to anymore, a human has only 2 thumbs! Checkmate!

But seriously, just stopping to say something after hearing actual arguments is a bit sad ngl. You didn’t even try to argue, you just gave up…

[final geyser]

Day 5 of asking for a Spear buff:
Among many of the Spear’s problems, one of the most noticeable when using it is it's shockingly low DPS. Here is a list of guns that can out TTK the spear in Melee range while also being able to do damage from range.

Spear:
Light - Medium - Heavy
1.80s - 2.50s- 3.20s

Heavy v Heavy:
.50 Akimbos: 1.83 > 3.2
Lewis Gun: 1.6 > 3.2
M60: 1.6 > 3.2
KS-23: 2.47 > 3.2
SA1216: .80 > 3.2
SHAK-50: 1.57 > 3.2
MGL32: 2.67 > 3.2

Medium v Heavy:
AKM: 1.7 > 2.5
CL-40: 2.3 > 2.5
FCAR: 1.4 > 2.5
Model 1887: 1.6 > 2.5
R .357: 1.6 > 2.5
Pike-556: 2.1 > 2.5
Cerberus-12: 1.8 > 2.5

Light v Heavy:
93R: 1.64 > 1.8
V9S: 1.33 > 1.8
M11: 1.26 > 1.8
XP-54: 1.48 > 1.8
LH1: 1.5 > 1.8
SH1900: .75 > 1.8
M26 Matter: 1.41 > 1.8

Note: These damage numbers come from patch 1.5.5 and takes into account only body shot numbers. The spear numbers come from its M1 standard attack, not the spin. I just wanted to illuminate that even when Spear has the first shot on another player, how often they lose. Thank yall embark for continuing to do an amazing job on my favorite game and please consider buffing the spear in any capacity!

[ornate scaffold]

And reacting with a clown emoji isn't condescending?

[smoky jackal]

nope

[royal thicket]

What other points? Your only point was one observation and that‘s it! I brought logical and actual arguments to the table, you just say „well no“
Give me points man!

[smoky jackal]

your argument was saying it takes no skill in different variants lol thats not points to the table, lad.

[royal thicket]

Then tell my where I‘m wrong? What point is wrong? Tell me, I really wanna hear it

[smoky jackal]

how? I made arguments for you and all you said was they were base part of the game. you are obviously biased and want sword gone no matter what so no matter what i say is gonna change your point of view. not worth my time

[obsidian nexus]

heres a few of the most glaring issues.
these DONT include gadget swapping, Essentially cutting endlag for moves in HALF, this is being put on macro's by multiple people atleast
Also phantom striking being in the game still

[royal thicket]

First up, you are right in one point. I am biased, I main shield and shield can‘t block other melees (confirmed bug) so I am biased in seeing it more annoying than it is to the average player.
Second, I don‘t want sword gone no matter what, I think it‘s a good melee weapon and others should be balanced around it. And if I see arguments that contradict my viewpoint, I consider changing my opinion based on feedback. So I think I am, in fact, worth your time.
Returning to your original arguments, I fail to see how locking the face direction would lower the skill ceiling because it would make it impossible to adjust to mistakes made previously, making the sword need more precision

[royal thicket]

He will never answer both of our texts, won‘t he?

[obsidian nexus]

i also tried having a conversation with him, he dumbed me down to; u just dont want to improve and u are just bad.
so its not worth ur time man.

Also hearing from comp players such as Graduating that sword is also REALLY hard to deal with for him and his team gives me all the confirmation i need on the sword-dash issue. These players are the most sweaty players, best players in the world. Some random Sword dash defender kid isnt gonna know the game as well as the top of the top

[royal thicket]

They‘re just skillless kids who defend their crutch, aren‘t they?

[obsidian nexus]

im not gonna argue with them, they are not worth my time. i tried having a civil conversation with him last time, and he severly offended me and i now know how his reasoning works and with what views he makes arguments. also how he views other people with different view. so yea.

u can do what u want, but ur essentially talking to a brick wall. just take a look here once in a while and see how he interacts with other people.

[obsidian nexus]

im not saying its skill-less, it definitely takes skill. But yea they are defending the thing they are using and find alot of fun.

[royal thicket]

I don‘t know if I‘m biased when it comes to the term skill because of my long riot shield experience, but I wouldn’t call sword taking skill. It needs some required brain functions but that‘s pretty much it

[obsidian nexus]

i dont need to know anything else than;
everyone i come in contact with, my irl friends, my online friends that i play with, viewers in stream chats that i have conversations with, Streamers; competitive and casual alike. Comp players that i had the pleasure of having a small conversation with.
all these people say that sword is a problem. I dont need to convince some random rage baiting CLEARLY biased sword-dash defender on the discord

[obsidian nexus]

being able to see where to engage and how to, is already skill. being able to m2 and quick melee optimally is also skill.
no its not super smash bros melee fox combo's types of skill. but it is skill definitely.

Also, riot shields right now are just having the short end of the stick, ESPECIALLY with sword-dash and gadgetswapping macro's,

[royal thicket]

We don‘t get the short end of the stick, we get the long end shoved up our a**

[obsidian nexus]

if sword dash is hard to deal with for top players, than its unbeatable for casuals, that in and of itself is a problem APART from all the jank right now; being able to helicopter. the lingering hitbox and the cleave and the 18m dash

[obsidian nexus]

yes, i watch alot of RiotToDiamond, a riotshield main that has its own melee community. and he also talked alot about how riot is bugged and in a really bad state right now

[fossil elk]

All melee except for sword and hammer is a joke agree or disagree

[obsidian nexus]

riot can be valuable, dual blades is just Ehhh, if ur insane with dagger it can be valuable. spear is also Ehhh but KyubiTheEye can get alot of value with it

[royal thicket]

Somewhat agree, spear is fine but not good, dagger is hard to balance so it‘s kinda bad, dual blades are swim noodles in disguise and riot shield has more bugs that one square kilometer in Australia

[obsidian nexus]

anyway, i have other stuff to do, i hope the future is gonna be a bit better for u Riot mains.

[fossil elk]

How can riot be viable when if you have enough skill, you can shoot through the visor, hit their arm and their leg
Also, you can just shoot at a dual blade users feet and they don’t deflect back

[royal thicket]

Thanks, I think this image sums it up the best

[fossil elk]

I think I know exactly how to balance melee

[royal thicket]

Fix every riot shield bug, then melee can never be overpowered cause riot shield would be able to block
(melees going through it is a bug and confirmed since S5)

[fossil elk]

Melee Weapons

All secondary abilities are now activated by holding down left click or right trigger
And all melee weapons can now block they cannot block bullets They take 80% less damage from each other (Excluding dagger this weapon cannot block)

Perry it allows you to stun your enemy and take no damage it lasts for 0.5 Seconds it is activated by attacking while blocking you cannot spam Perry if you block there’s a cooldown for Perrying for 0.6 seconds if you are perryed you can still move You just can’t attack for 0.5 seconds Perry takes 0.3 seconds
If you don’t perry anything you can’t block for 1 Second (Riot shield cannot parry)(you can also use it to shove people which will stop them from attacking for 0.3 seconds and will push them back 0.5m)

Reload is now dodge dodging makes it so you cannot take any melee damage and take 50% less ranged damage after you dodge you cannot attack for 0.6 seconds you can only dodge every 0.3 seconds dodging makes you move 1m with a side step

You can headshot with melee weapons for 1.5x damage this is to encourage players to aim up so you can crouch to dodge

Delete aim assist for Melee

You cannot animation cancel with anything

Cannot use specializations during attacks

Cannot quick melee during attacks

You cannot skip the recovery animation after the damage happens Including dagger which means you cannot instantly quick melee

Dual blades
Increase the range and accuracy of which it can deflect make it so you can hit a headshot
the final slash is now activated by holding down mouse one or right trigger and does however much damage you’ve built up converts 50% damage deflected into Melee damage
you also gain an extra 1m of lunge every 50 damage deflected
once you use the attack you cannot attack again until you deflect once you use the attack you lose all the damage and lunge range for this attack
main damage decreased to 10
increase main damage by 10 for every consecutive hit but if you miss the boost for the main damage is gone (and you also fall over for 1 second)(you need to hit both swords to get a boost)

Riot shield
You can now sprint while blocking and you can block all damage even fire the hit box is increased by 10% in all directions (while blocking melee you take 0% damage)
you can only shoot their feet while they are sprinting or looking up
Main damage decreased to 49
(You cannot Perry instead you can shield bash while blocking which deals 50 damage shield bash cannot headshot)(you cannot dodge)
When you get hit through the visor, you take 10% damage and can’t get head shot
(While blocking turning speed is not decreased)(headshot multiplayer 3)(when you use the baton the shield and your body moves far less)(you can crouch while blocking)

Sword
Cannot dash during attack are use any other specialization
(You must jump at the right time to get more distance up to 12m if you jump too early or too late you lose speed)
(You can deflect range attacks by blocking you start with 10% ranged damage resistance and chance to deflect but you can get up to 100% every 1 damage is equal to -1% Resistance but if you deflect it and hit you gain back however much you lost for it)
(you can hit head shots)(the way you get to 100% damage resistance and chance to deflect is by getting head shots)

Dagger
Make it so you have to be standing right behind them (0.5 m) and looking at their back and it automatically charges it and you can’t hold it while it’s charging it disable cloaking and it takes 0.19-0.22 seconds to charge but immediately discharges as soon as you look away from their back while charging and stabbing you cannot use any specializations
if you backstab anywhere before or after 0.19-0.22 seconds it only deals 80% of their HP (before you call BS have you heard of the SH 1900)(headshot multiplier 2)(you can headshot backstab but only when you get perfect timing)

Hammer
(Secondary Can only headshot when your crosshair is on their head)

[royal thicket]

Wall of text jumpscare

[fossil elk]

The solution it is the elder scroll of melee fixes

[royal thicket]

This would fundamentally change how melees work in this game and for my part I like how they work. I‘m not saying it wouldn’t work, just that I don‘t like it. Melees can be fixed without changing their basic concept

[fossil elk]

You can use them the same way I just added blocking preying dodging and head shots

[royal thicket]

Yeah, that changes melee combat. Of course you can play them the same way as before, after adding 3 new meta shaking abilities

[fossil elk]

There should be a meta for everything nothing should be left in the dust

[fossil elk]

Most of what I added only affects melee versus melee

[fossil elk]

Do you wanna see some new melee ideas

[near scroll]

is there one that's a bat for medium and you can throw the baseball with the bat on a cooldown for a hybrid ranged/melee?

[fossil elk]

Light already has a bat skin but I do have another weapon that sounds like that

[fossil elk]

New melees

Heavy

Knuckledusters
108 damage
180 swings per minute
Secondary
Tactical sprint this would allow the heavy to run at the same speed of medium, but holsters the weapon meaning there’s a slight delay between stopping running and attacking
(Has no lunge)
Block only reduces damage by 75%

Flail
100-130
130-160
160-190 damage
110 swings per minute
(perfectly timed hits will deal extra damage
You can also charge up an attack Which takes 0.25 seconds you can charge up 3 tears of attacks)
(blocking makes you spin your flail like a windmill if anyone walks into it, it deals 80 damage and blocks 50% ranged damage and also knocks back opponents 1m
The block spans 0.5m in all directions)

Medium

fire axe
109 damage
120 swings per minute
Secondary
Axe throw throws weapon dealing 200 damage which takes 1 second to throw
Once you throw it you must pick it up
While disarmed you’re given fists 44 damage
240 swings per minute
Blocking only reduces damage by 50% while disarmed but you cannot be blocked
(when it is blocked it gets deflected wherever you were aiming no matter what the weapon is) (secondary damage is 2x head shot damage and can go through multiple people)(main attack has 0.2 m less range because you’re using 2 hands)

claymore
90 damage
110 swings per minute
Secondary
(When you get an elimination you regenerate 100 HP)
When you use your secondary it drains your HP and gives it to all players within a 2m radius
Your HP drains at constant rate of 100 DPS
(heals all teammates and enemies 80 HPS and you cannot move during the secondary and takes 1 second to cancel)(if you get a quick melee elimination it does not give you any boosts)
Also gain 10% damage resistance per elimination for a maximum of 80%
(also get 5% extra damage resistance while blocking per elimination for a maximum of 100%)(you lose all boosts on death)

(before you call BS the dual blades protects you from 75% of all range damage in front of you which means you effectively have over 1000 HP for free and you also deflect it back at them and it’s still bad)

Light

Chainsaw
304 DPS
90 swings per minute
Reload speed 5
It’s a gas powered chainsaw You need to put gas in and rev up once it’s reved up you only have 20 seconds to attack before having to automatically reload once you swing you need to keep your camera and weapon on the opponent otherwise you will be stunned for 0.2 seconds
(Works like gas tick rate 4 ticks a second 76 damage per tick)

[near scroll]

haha my man! i was interested in a hybrid melee/ranged weapon and my 2 best ideas are the one i just mentioned (melee centric with a ranged ability on cooldown) and a hand crossbow + dagger or smth (ranged centric with situational melee applications to compensate for a lackluster ranged combat tool)

what kinda psycopath are you to be giving lights a chainsaw wtf

[fossil elk]

It’s for M11 players that don’t like range

[near scroll]

honestly just thinking about any new melee + dash gives me headaches

but grapple chainsaw? heck yea brother

[fossil elk]

Look at my other big post above it I made it so when you’re attacking, you cannot dash

[near scroll]

and here i was thinking i'm done studying for THE FINALS

[fossil elk]

What do you mean?

[near scroll]

y'know, the april 1st gag they did on this server

[fossil elk]

Oh

[near scroll]

where everyone was studying for THE FINALS

[fossil elk]

What do you think about my first big post? And the new weapons that I suggested

[near scroll]

i might make a more detailed response at some point but in short :
i think the new mechanics you wanna add are a bit much, though i like the idea of using the reload button for potential 3rd attacks/moves on melees

i agree that dual blades deflect should be buffed, but just in terms of the reflect's effectiveness, actually reflecting bullets back at someone is very inconsistent right now
i agree shield could use some love, and having the sprint animation be different is for sure a possibility but im not sure myself whats best

sword just needs lungedashing (the super dash where u let go of lunge and dash spec right after) removed, otherwise its fine
dagger is the one i'd like to see changed the most personally, not because it's bad or w.e just because i think it suffers from dash dependence even more than sword, maybe make it so u can charge backstab while still sprinting but can't sprint or dash anymore when u have a fully charged backstab? idk

i don't see a problem in giving hammmer overhead multi hits back, otherwise it's imo the most balanced melee right now
and spear needs a small rework. my take is make left click throw spears and keep the spin on right click, however let the spin be cancelled upon pressing right click again

as for the new weapon ideas, a lot of your ideas in gameplay are too quite removed from the current the finals experience, but i cant always comment on what weapon u chose for who, and the idea you're going for
fist based melee weapon for heavy is hella cool i agree. it being the fastest melee for heavy fits thematically as well
flail could be very cool, never thought about it much
as for the axe, i'm not sure it'd fit medium very well + i'd rather see throwing axes be a heavy equivalent of throwing knives personally lol
greatsword/claymore is thematically cool but maybe a bit boring? though it could be the melee weapon that counters other melees? idk
and yea chainsaw is cool af but idk what to do with it : heavy has minigun now lol

[fossil elk]

I didn’t get rid of sword super lunge it just works differently need to read it again

I put the fire axe on medium because I think he needs something more than just damage reduction melee

And also the fire axe on medium because it’s kind of supportive because you’re doing a lot of damage without it being constant

[near scroll]

yea i know i was saying personally i think all that needs to be done to sword is removing the superlunge

also i agree, medium having something more agressive would be nice but a fire axe just doesn't fit, like it's such a bulky weapon i reckon it'd make more sense visually to be carried by heavy

i think a longsword would be ideal for medium, different enough from the lighter more nimble one handed sword light has, while not being overly big and heavy to the point seeing a medium carry one looks wrong

[fossil elk]

Also, I’m not trying to be mean, but how is the Claymore boring when you can be almost invincible sounds pretty fun
but that’s just me

[near scroll]

i didn't want to get into the specifics of your concepts cuz its a lot to take in and think about but yea after rereading it that greatsword idea would be busted af what the hell

did u base it on tf2 eyelander btw?

[fossil elk]

Yes, and how is it OP
You get 10% damage resistance on elimination, which means you have to get eight eliminations in a row to get 80%

[fossil elk]

Dual blades you can just block and get it for free plus you’re deflecting 100% back

[near scroll]

what sounds scarier to u, dual blades or a sledge heavy with even just 500hp?

dual blades can't do literally anything else while blocking, they suffer from severe opportunity cost

also any snowball mechanic in this game is dangerous as cashouts become more valuable with each pair, so even if you don't get early cashboxes, if you stacked even 30-40% dmg rez u're gonna be unstoppable for those very important objectives

would lead to strange strategies where this one medium is babysat for 3/4ths of the game, and if none of the teams manage to stop them (which they don't have an incentive to do rn cause chasing for kills means you're loosing time that could be spent contesting obj), they then get to just absolutely dominate on the last, most important cashouts of the game

i also just don't like artificial snowball mechanics in games like these. just getting a wipe and steal gives you time to setup for next fight, which is already advantageous enough imo

[fossil elk]

Sword my new dual blades and axe throw would be a counter

But also you could just be a light and dash

You can also just shield bash with the new riot shield

[royal pier]

Still can't grasp the logic that has the balance team saying "yeah, let's buff the MP5's range in the same update we add the now objectively worse ARN."

[royal pier]

Oh, they buffed the MP5's damage, too.

[fossil elk]

What is the new damage?

[royal pier]

Buffed to 17 from 16.

[fossil elk]

Why would they make it do the same damage as the ARN
it’s an assault rifle❌

[royal pier]

Same damage with less recoil.

[fossil elk]

Faster fire rate

[royal pier]

Idgaf about realism, but the whole point of SMGs in video games is close range. Yet they basically made the MP5 an AR.

[fossil elk]

By the way did you just come in here to vent about the XP 54

[royal pier]

Not just it. I dislike most of the hitscan full autos. High damage with little difficulty shouldn't be a thing.

[near scroll]

yeah they really shot themselves in the foot with that one.
shoulda made it an fcar equivalent with two 20 round mags and more dmg/lower rof

[summer skiff]

Hey guys, just wanted to ask a quick question what is in your guys's opinion the worst specialization & weapon for light. Thanks in advance

[fossil elk]

Cloak and dagger

[royal pier]

I think the tournament is dumb, but it's going to be really dumb because it's going to be mostly mirror match-ups with the same handful of weapons.

[fossil elk]

That’s how it’s been since season 1

[fossil elk]

The meta is strong with this one

[royal pier]

Hate it.

Don't advertise weapons like the sledgehammer, MGL32, Flamethrower, etc. if when players actually try the game they'll barely see them.

[fossil elk]

I also hate it

I hope you don’t mind I’m just gonna put a quick little Segway

You should totally read my melee ideas

[near scroll]

my problem with autos is that they should lose to semi autos in poke wars cause of the semis' better ability to play cover, but with such fast ttks it rarely makes a difference

and also they should be just good cuz they have the fewest significant weaknesses, but rn they're veeeery strong

[fossil elk]

I think for the most part Full autos and semi should have the sameTTK because then the semi has an advantage when using cover, but it’s harder to flick

[royal pier]

I'll be honest, way too complicated imo.

I'd rather hitscans got more difficult first, then reevaluate melee.

Though for Spear I do have specific ideas:

1. All hits in the combo do 70 damage.

2. Add the ability to get a "headstab," which does 95 damage.

3. Make the spin only the first two spins. Still let it combo into itself, but there's less commitment, but still requires proper timing.

It's so dumb that the Spear, a weapon based around reach, requires quick melee hits to minimize ttk on Medium and Light.

[fossil elk]

I think melee is held back because it’s easy It needs to be buffed but harder to use

And also most of the changes are just melee vs melee

[royal pier]

Melee isn't easy, though?

[fossil elk]

It is you just smack people

[royal pier]

If they let you get in range.

I'm taking sword out of the convo because that's a whole different situation.

Closing the gap is the challenge.

[fossil elk]

Typically, you’re just gonna sit in the building

[royal pier]

...what if the station is outside?

[fossil elk]

And what about all the tools that heavy has?

[royal pier]

They require landing them.

[fossil elk]

One hit not that hard

[royal pier]

Miss a few bullets? Not an immediate death sentence.

Miss Lockbolt/Winch/Goo? Probably dead if they aren't terrible.

[fossil elk]

Well, if you miss then you’re probably in a bad lobby

[royal pier]

Hitting the Lockbolt and Winch are inherently harder than just using a gun.

[fossil elk]

True but it’s incredibly quick TTK

[royal pier]

In the time it takes a Heavy to use those things, they could have just shot them with the ShAK-50/M60.

[royal pier]

Not once you factor in animations and stow time for things like the Lockbolt.

Melee's strength is mobility in combat and lack of ammo.

[fossil elk]

Like I said, most of the hard things are just melee vs melee

[royal pier]

Spear also gets AoE.

But everything else is a weakness.

[fossil elk]

If you winch somebody, you’re probably just going to get a headshot

[royal pier]

If this was true, we'd see more melee.

But we only see Sword with any frequency.

[fossil elk]

I was talking about my new melee

[royal pier]

I don't even see sledgehammer very often now.

[royal pier]

Which I said was too complicated.

[fossil elk]

It’s not you can just block and dodge it’s not that complicated

[royal pier]

And now they have to account for that on every weapon in regards to chip damage.

They still don't have it right for Dual Blades.

[fossil elk]

Did you read it?
You can’t block bullets

[royal pier]

So this helps them how?

[fossil elk]

melee vs melee

[fossil elk]

You can also headshot

And Dodge

[royal pier]

The only issues there are Riot not blocking sword lunge.

Spear spin makes sense, you're hitting around the shield.

[fossil elk]

Riot shield is horrible You can shoot through their visor at their hand at the side of the shield and at their feet

[royal pier]

It's a freebie for Spear most of the time, but Spear can't block bullets.

[royal pier]

The alternative is it being only vulnerable to Spear, fire, and explosions.

[fossil elk]

What are you talking about?

[royal pier]

If you can't shoot the riot in some way from the front, you're fucked.

Once it's in range, it can be a monster.

[fossil elk]

It’s a team based game

[royal pier]

And?

[fossil elk]

You can shoot them from behind

Plus, you can still shoot through the visor at 10% damage

[royal pier]

That's called situational awareness and positioning.

Also gl shooting the visor on a Riot Shield user that knows how to sprint and block.

[fossil elk]

Get good

[royal pier]

It doesn't really line up with the head when sprinting.

[fossil elk]

Yes, it does

[royal pier]

I literally play with a Riot Shield fanatic.

[fossil elk]

Great good for you

[sand monolith]

The best counter to riot shield is literally just ignoring it and killing the rest of their team

Or if you have a hard counter like charge

[royal pier]

Never heard them complain about getting headshot while running. It's almost only hit hitreg complaints.

Which is a general melee issue.

(And game issue)

[royal pier]

It probably should be able to block some of Charge's damage.

[fossil elk]

It should block all of it

[royal pier]

Nah.

We don't need a situation like when Ubi overbuffed shields in Siege.

[sand monolith]

I think they should fix all the bugs and inconsistencies with it before balancing it

[fossil elk]

But that is balancing it

[royal pier]

They fixed Pyro nades sticking to it at least.

Also, Riot Shield can block flashes.

[sand monolith]

Kinda yeah. But they should see how it plays when it actually functions as intended before changing how it plays. Because the bugs should be fixed eventually regardless

[royal pier]

They need to adjust the swing so it whiffs less.

[sand monolith]

Yeah it coded as a solid surface that breaks LOS. It can stop steals and revives too. Even friendly ones

[fossil elk]

No

[royal pier]

Yes, it has the same issue they gave the sledgehammer main swing where you see it pass through, and nothing happens.

[sand monolith]

Yeah riot shield hitreg is pretty awful

[royal pier]

Although I used sledgehammer recently and it felt better now so idk.

[fossil elk]

That’s hit registration

[royal pier]

Still had a couple of no-reason whiffs tho.

[royal pier]

No it seems to also be the actual hitbox being fucky.

It was more obvious after the sledgehammer nerf.

Wish we had the option to toggle on hitboxes in the range.

That was a nice feature Chivalry 1 had.

[fossil elk]

Just give it a 20 m lunge and there you go

[fossil elk]

So you like chivalry but you think my
melee system is too complicated

[royal pier]

I wish the lunge mechanic wasn't a thing and they just didn't slow the player while swinging and adjusted the range of swings as needed.

Like the sledgehammer would need a tiny bit more so that you can't instantly sprint away.

[royal pier]

Cause that's a game that's literally a melee combat game.

Also they sorta simplified it in Chiv 2 because the complexity was so exploitable in 1.

I only mentioned the game cause you could toggle on hitboxes.

[fossil elk]

The finals is its own niche Why can’t it be a good gun game and a good melee game?

[royal pier]

It would be a good melee game if they didn't make the hitscans easy to use and have high damage.

Melee vs melee isn't holding melee weapons back.

[fossil elk]

But it’s more fun you wanna have fun?

[royal pier]

Melee can be very effective, but it's risky compared to hitscans.

[royal pier]

I have fun in melee v melee already.

[fossil elk]

with riot shield, I doubt it

[royal pier]

Except Sword. Even if I win I leave the fight annoyed.

[royal pier]

I mean I use Spear so...

[waxen fiber]

show me the sledge heavy that lost to shield medium, I want to rip he's H pass

[fossil elk]

Everyone should have equal opportunity to fight

[royal pier]

No.

Riot has an advantage over spear when facing firearms.

You can't just balance for melee vs melee.

[fossil elk]

It’s not just for that you have to read it again I feel like you’re not even reading the entire thing

[waxen fiber]

both shield and spear are disgustingly weak mele options

[royal pier]

All weapons should have pros and cons. The problem atm is weapons like the ARs/LMGs/SMGs that have basically no cons by comparison.

[waxen fiber]

no?

[fossil elk]

Yes

[royal pier]

Did you just contradict yourself?

[fossil elk]

Their cons are they can’t shoot people

[royal pier]

Riots pro is that it has a block. Spear can't.

[fossil elk]

Every melee has their own ability

[fossil elk]

It has AOE damage

[royal pier]

Let Riot block other melee and now it's just the best melee.

[waxen fiber]

This is a question that is awaiting confirmation or denial.

[fossil elk]

No, it’s not I feel like you don’t get it
You don’t have to fight their shield and these new mechanics help you fight them

[royal pier]

They require more effort to get value, but they both have situations where they thrive.

[royal pier]

You eventually have to fight the shield wut?

[fossil elk]

You have fighting mechanics and it’s a team game

[royal pier]

And it's fine for natural counters to exist.

[fossil elk]

No, it’s not there should be no hard counters

[royal pier]

The spin whips the spear around the block.

[waxen fiber]

in my opinion sledge always and in every situations better than spear(except maybe power shift)

and medium mele just weak and outclassed by mele of two other classes

[royal pier]

Riot completely blocking Charge isn't a hard counter?

[fossil elk]

Did you see what I did to its damage?

[royal pier]

Sledgehammer has worse AoE and reach.

[royal pier]

What does that have to do with it completely blocking Charge in your version of the game?

That's a literal hard counter.

[fossil elk]

It’s easy to fight and just shoot through their visor and focus their team first

[waxen fiber]

he compensates for this with a massive difference in damage, so significant that all the advantages of the spear pale against this background.

[royal pier]

You're ignoring your inconsistency.

[fossil elk]

If their team is dead, they’re dead

[royal pier]

You can actually win that DPS race with Spear if you get your first stab while they're out of range. Then you just spin.

[royal pier]

Still a hard counter.

[fossil elk]

They’re basically just tickling you while you kill their team

[royal pier]

Also, what about nade launchers vs Riot?

[waxen fiber]

I really doubt it, I have never had situation when spear outdamages me

[royal pier]

How many spears you fighting?

[fossil elk]

Shoot behind them

[waxen fiber]

even when I was injured

[waxen fiber]

I agree, not very much, about one in three days.

[royal pier]

Helps if you have Winch and interrupt a swing, too. But I've won it straight-up hit for hit fights.

[waxen fiber]

If you want to get to the bottom of the truth, we can create a custom round.

[royal pier]

They gotta be close, and that means in spin range.

[royal pier]

Do they do one stab then spin? Or only stab? Cause that'd be their issue.

[royal pier]

Not home atm.

[waxen fiber]

I didn't pay attention when playing for heavy with a sledgehammer, I didn't perceive the spear as a threat and just did the usual anti-heavy combo.

[fossil elk]

Did I break your will about the riot shield? @royal pier

[royal pier]

Then they probably didn't spin lol.

[waxen fiber]

RMB LMB quick mele

[royal pier]

No I just don't see a point when you contradict yourself.

[waxen fiber]

OK then, I am ready when you are

[fossil elk]

How am I contradicting myself?

[royal pier]

I have a clip of me killing two sledge users simultaneously. That involved more than just trading hits tho.

[waxen fiber]

... well.. isn't the spin attack does less damage than LMB?

[royal pier]

"There should be no hard counters."

"Riot should block 100% of Charge."

[royal pier]

No. Spin does 105 a hit.

[fossil elk]

Don’t charge a shield

[royal pier]

And 3 hits in a swing.

[fossil elk]

Dual blades can block charge and slam

[royal pier]

So actually you could do the spin and QM, but that's riskier than just stabbing them before they do their first swing.

[fossil elk]

Charge and slam naturally hard counters shield

[royal pier]

Reduced damage, not no dmg.

[fossil elk]

10% then

[south plinth]

Charge and slam can’t 250 to zero a shield player at full health tho

[royal pier]

And I said it could take reduced damage, making it less oppressive.

[south plinth]

And once you’re done charging you’re within melee range for the shield

[fossil elk]

Have you heard of Melee for heavy?

[south plinth]

Fair enough I don’t play melee heavy a ton

[royal pier]

Cept when the game randomly hits them for like 5 tics of dmg instantly, but that's an issue with how they made charge in general.

Coulda made the dmg nerf less if they added in multi-hit protection.

I actually did have a double blades user just face tank post-nerf charge and they killed me before it ended lol.

[fossil elk]

You could also push them off the map

[south plinth]

Now that I think about it the dual blades and riot shield kinda fill the same role I never really realized that

[royal pier]

Honestly what DB needs as an easy little improvement is just to remove the third attack in the combo.

It's more efficient to just quick melee after the second and reset the combo.

[royal pier]

Yeah cause there's always a convenient hole nearby lol.

[fossil elk]

Duel blades is skill-based riot shield

[south plinth]

What about if blade users could sprint while blocking or got a passive speed boost while they were out

[royal pier]

They both need block because they don't have things like Winch, Lockbolt, Dash, or Light's natural speed.

[fossil elk]

I think that’s obvious

[waxen fiber]

ok

[royal pier]

Oh Goo Gun, which I'm back-and-forth on. It either works amazingly, or it phases through them and you die.

[royal pier]

I'd rather they make the deflect better, but don't make it infinite use. Some sort of charge mechanic that gets deleted with use.

[fossil elk]

So you wanna play overwatch

[royal pier]

Cause it's obviously supposed to be like Genji's reflect

But with no cooldown, they can't make it that good.

[south plinth]

Like just a stamina bar

[royal pier]

If it was a resource you had to manage, it could be made better.

[fossil elk]

Stamina for melee

[royal pier]

Yeah basically. More damage reduction but less time.

[south plinth]

That sounds good no more infinite deflection would be nice

[royal pier]

Cause I'm for some more mechanics being added, but it doesn't need to become chivalry.

[fossil elk]

Why not it’s a very good game

[royal pier]

The goal is for there to be more melee players, but if you make them require too much, it becomes more appealing to just shoot a gun.

[fossil elk]

But if you make it actually good

[ivory rapids]

MP5 NERF WTF IS THIS

[royal pier]

There's no guns in it.

[fossil elk]

Imagine that someone sees a streamer going crazy with melee doing all these tricks I think that brings in all of the players to the yard

[royal pier]

Bows in Chiv aren't such a huge part that they dictate balance.

But guns in this game are the majority of available options.

[royal pier]

Your suggestion leads to weird ass situations where if it ends up 1v1 melee at the end the fight drags on.

Time is the most important thing in this game. People will just choose to not play melee because of that potential time loss.

[fossil elk]

You want more options?

Heavy

Knuckledusters
108 damage
180 swings per minute
Secondary
Tactical sprint this would allow the heavy to run at the same speed of medium, but holsters the weapon meaning there’s a slight delay between stopping running and attacking
(Has no lunge)
Block only reduces damage by 75%

Flail
100-130
130-160
160-190 damage
110 swings per minute
(perfectly timed hits will deal extra damage
You can also charge up an attack Which takes 0.25 seconds you can charge up 3 tears of attacks)
(blocking makes you spin your flail like a windmill if anyone walks into it, it deals 80 damage and blocks 50% ranged damage and also knocks back opponents 1m
The block spans 0.5m in all directions)

Medium

fire axe
109 damage
120 swings per minute
Secondary
Axe throw throws weapon dealing 200 damage which takes 1 second to throw
Once you throw it you must pick it up
While disarmed you’re given fists 44 damage
240 swings per minute
Blocking only reduces damage by 50% while disarmed but you cannot be blocked
(when it is blocked it gets deflected wherever you were aiming no matter what the weapon is) (secondary damage is 2x head shot damage and can go through multiple people)(main attack has 0.2 m less range because you’re using 2 hands)

claymore
90 damage
110 swings per minute
Secondary
(When you get an elimination you regenerate 100 HP)
When you use your secondary it drains your HP and gives it to all players within a 2m radius
Your HP drains at constant rate of 100 DPS
(heals all teammates and enemies 80 HPS and you cannot move during the secondary and takes 1 second to cancel)(if you get a quick melee elimination it does not give you any boosts)
Also gain 10% damage resistance per elimination for a maximum of 80%
(also get 5% extra damage resistance while blocking per elimination for a maximum of 100%)(you lose all boosts on death)

(before you call BS the dual blades protects you from 75% of all range damage in front of you which means you effectively have over 1000 HP for free and you also deflect it back at them and it’s still bad)

Light

Chainsaw
304 DPS
90 swings per minute
Reload speed 5
It’s a gas powered chainsaw You need to put gas in and rev up once it’s reved up you only have 20 seconds to attack before having to automatically reload once you swing you need to keep your camera and weapon on the opponent otherwise you will be stunned for 0.2 seconds
(Works like gas tick rate 4 ticks a second 76 damage per tick)

[royal pier]

Why have a potentially long duel when you can shoot a fucker?

[fossil elk]

The best one wins you can just shove them with the Perry and 2 shot them

[royal pier]

How tf you parrying and shooting?

You mean 2 hit?

[fossil elk]

With a melee weapon

[royal pier]

Also Chiv 1 devolved into people doing stupid looking movements to circumvent parries.

Hence the changes made in 2.

[fossil elk]

It’s more of a shove

[worn smelt]

why do so many people hate the xp5. its a hit your shots check weapon (a lot like the fcar). xp5 being good is definitely healthy for the game. but it does get annoying when most lights you go up against are using the same few weapons.

they should probably buff more of the less used light weapons

[royal pier]

You want the game to be Chivalry/Mordhau, but those games are melee first. The Finals is trying to have several different combat styles including guns, melee, GLs, and stuff like Flamethrower.

Having fights between just melee be basically a different game would feel bizarre and just encourage using guns.

[south plinth]

It’s cause it outperforms basically every other light auto at all ranges

[fossil elk]

Do you think it’s more fun to just have one attack or to be able to outclass your opponent?

[royal pier]

They buffed its range and damage in the same update they added an objectively worse AR.

Why is the SMG better at range than the AR?

[royal pier]

All the melee already have two primary functions.

[fossil elk]

It’s not enough

[worn smelt]

nah after they buffed the arn damage it feels strong at range

[royal pier]

MP5 can be the low recoil SMG to the higher recoil/DPS M11, but it should suck at mid range and beyond.

[worn smelt]

it should have released with 17 damage from the start. what were they thinging 15 dmg

[worn smelt]

yeah the range buff was not necessary. they just have to revert that but keep the 17 dmg imo

[royal pier]

Still worse than the MP5, which deals the same damage, has lower recoil, and a faster rate of fire.

[south plinth]

MP5 should range somewhere between M11 and ARN imo

LH1/ARN should be for mid long range

[royal pier]

It probably would have been if they had just left it as it was.

[south plinth]

True

[ivory rapids]

i definitely do not think in its current state that its a hit your shots check it is a VERY forgiving gun to use a very high ammo count with the damage to back it up you can miss alot of the mag and still kill at least a medium

[worn smelt]

they should bring up the damage of the arn to 18 and lower the mag size. bc rn they are too similar

[royal pier]

To you, maybe.

I'm a big advocate for having the meta not just be ARs and SMGs, but your suggestion means it'll absolutely stay that way.

[south plinth]

Also what’s with the 34 round mag just make it 30

[worn smelt]

yeah but at the same time i dont want db and melee to be meta

[royal pier]

"Should I use these weapons that require learning an entirely different system, or do I shoot someone? "

[fossil elk]

Unless you’re crazy just remember I added head shots

[worn smelt]

that would suck

[ivory rapids]

imo they should at least debuff the sword it chunks too hard with dash and makes playing against it very hard in tighter situations

[south plinth]

The M26 deserves a slight buff imo I almost never see anyone running it nowadays

[worn smelt]

not really what i mean. just having all the light meta weapons be db and dagger just 1 shotting everyone it would be toxic

[royal pier]

And that's fine for Spear.

The cool thing about the possibility melee introduces is that some of them are not complex and don't require typical "hit the head" gameplay.

The spear being the marksman of melee is fine, but it doesn't have to be all of them.

[worn smelt]

true. that gun needs something to get people to play it. tbh its pretty boring and doesn't fit the light playstyle well

[royal pier]

We're talking about Impersonator's suggestion to add an entirely new parry system for melee vs melee.

[ivory rapids]

it really doesnt

[royal pier]

It's one of Light's best weapons.

It just requires a playstyle most Light players aren't interested in.

[worn smelt]

definitely not a direct buff just something to make it more interesting

[ivory rapids]

im sorry i meant it doest fit the light playstyle for shotguns\

[worn smelt]

that would be interesting

[royal pier]

It's basically the 1887 on Light. It has less DPS than the DB, but more shots to switch from target to target.

[royal pier]

Not when it drives people to just pick the gun option.

Adding a way to draw out melee fights just means the potential to lose because it takes longer than just shooting someone.

[worn smelt]

i dont think any of the melee weapons in the game rn are really good enough or interesting enough to ever be meta

[royal pier]

Oh there goes the sledge and DB having a parry fight with 10 seconds left.

[south plinth]

B-b-but the sword!!!

[worn smelt]

its honestly not broken itself it really is just the desync

[royal pier]

Because they committed the cardinal balancing sin of making the easy to use hitscan weapons also deal good damage.

Low risk high reward vs most melee being high risk high reward.

[worn smelt]

if they improve servers/tickrate and make the lunge easier to telegraph it should be fair

[south plinth]

Yeah It’s the jank that makes it so unfun to fight against

[royal pier]

Like I'm pretty good with sledgehammer and Spear, but it's obviously a bigger risk than just using a gun.

[worn smelt]

they have to make melee more versatile. thats the only way more people will bother playing it

[royal pier]

But if the hitscans were harder to use or did less damage comparable to their ease of use, melee seems more appealing due to the potentially faster ttk once you close the gap.

[south plinth]

This shit is stupid

[worn smelt]

i saw this, this is disgusting

[ivory rapids]

holy shit thats busted

[royal pier]

But also I don't want other melee to be Sword, obviously.

[south plinth]

The range I’m kinda ok with but the way he can hit the two dummy’s a meter above him Is nuts

[royal pier]

Most suggested melee changes I read either don't change anything, or power creep them to the point where now the game is a matter of who hits who first.

[ivory rapids]

just the fact that all you have to do is spazz out with your mouse is insane i dont like that he is basically just holding it out and is doing damage

[worn smelt]

they otta add more specializations and gadgets that enable melee

[royal pier]

Sword fixes seem pretty obvious:

Drastically reduced the amount you can move during the lunge.

Each hit after the first target does substantially less damage.

[south plinth]

Yeah I know it’s a different game but Warzone had a similar balancing issue where obviously a melee weapon should excel in close ranges but that make melees really unfun to fight when it feels like there’s no counterplay

[royal pier]

This game having specs and gadgets should in theory help with that.

[fossil elk]

The finals is a casual and competitive game You don’t have to try hard You could play it like normal, but you could also go crazy

[royal pier]

If you add parry and headshots to all melee than you have to learn it when using melee cause otherwise you just lose vs someone else using said mechanics.

[fossil elk]

That’s if you’re in a lobby with someone much better than you in which you’re already losing

[royal pier]

Weapons like Sledgehammer are about making use of destruction, specs, and gadgets instead of raw aim.

That's the beauty of it. Easy to learn, hard to master.

You want it to be hard to master and add a new barrier to learn.

[royal pier]

No? Someone can be in your skill bracket but if they are making use of intended mechanics and you aren't because you choose not to, you lose.

[fossil elk]

You can say the same thing about revolver

[royal pier]

They don't have to be good at it, just using them.

Like, just play Chiv 2 it still has a playerbase.

[worn smelt]

sledge is the best designed melee in the game. more melee weapons need to take a note from sledge's book and not just be a damage stick

[placid slate]

I mean the only ones that fall under damage stick are the 2 light melees and spear, even then spear has a bunch of niche things you can do with the spin outside of killing people

[worn smelt]

spear is definitely the biggest missed opportunity. the right click should have been a javalin throw

[royal pier]

I was saying earlier how I wanted Spear to be the "marksman" of the melee options by making it so that does 70 dmg a swing (which keeps most breakpoints as-is), but add "headstabs" that deal 95 damage (which lowers the hits needed to kill, but requires better aim).

[placid slate]

You just said you didn't want a damage stick, now you're going on about making the spear a damage stick

[worn smelt]

but at the same time thats half the weapons in the game

[royal pier]

Spin is fine except the time commitment is too high. Make it just 2 spins. Atm the third one is weirdly slow anyway.

[placid slate]

So the damage stick analogy is flawed in of itself. And besides, the spear isn't built for throwing since its more of a pike than javelin

[royal pier]

I'm convinced Spear used to be called Glaive or something similar due to the spin.

[worn smelt]

nah it would be different enough since it adds range to the weapon imo

[placid slate]

I'll do you one better: 1 spin per input, let's you use the spin as a viable option to make combos, making it much more fun and practical to use

[worn smelt]

still at the end of the day being able to throw spear would be sick as hell

[royal pier]

If we get a hybrid range/melee weapon, I want an axe not the spear.

Spear's niche is AoE.

[placid slate]

Thank you for being the first person to finally understand that spear is an aoe weapon

[worn smelt]

that sucks tho sword and sledge are way better at crowd control

[royal pier]

That'd be a bit much with my other suggestion.

It should be a risk, but it doesn't have to be such a big one.

[royal pier]

No? Spear spin hits 360 degrees. They nerfed sledgehammer's sweep a while ago.

[worn smelt]

sorry i just find spear being an aeo weapon boring

[placid slate]

I mean you're still locked into an animation, it's just your choice whether or not you wanna keep spining, or call it quits

[placid slate]

Maybes it's just not for you then

[worn smelt]

but spear spin is still inconsistent as hell (sledge swing still does multi hit right?)

[royal pier]

I do not.

[worn smelt]

yeah im just projecting. when spear dropped my first thought was "i wanna throw it"

[royal pier]

They've made the spin like 95% consistent. Sometimes it'll no reg but it's fairly rare.

[placid slate]

We could just go for a middle ground and add a new weapon that's throwing javelins

[worn smelt]

i would eat that up

[placid slate]

Only no regs I've had was with a shit ton of goo nearby

[royal pier]

Yeah goo seems to be the main cause.

[placid slate]

It seems to eat up the 3rd attack consistently

[royal pier]

I haven't been winched mid spin this season yet. I'm not sure if they fixed the bug where getting winched while spinning makes you unable to do anything until the time the spin would have already ended.

But I think they squashed that one.

[worn smelt]

yeah i don't think any heavy would want to winch in a spinning spear

[placid slate]

Nah, spin cancel still causes fatigue so I doubt they fixed it

[royal pier]

You can still cancel the spin by just using "Hello," "Hype," etc.

I don't do that cause fuck abusing exploits.

[royal pier]

It cancels it.

[worn smelt]

i didnt even know that. thats crazy

[placid slate]

Mfs were pump cancelling for the longest time on shotguns, why shouldn't we use spin cancel?

[royal pier]

Most spear users are the honorable sort /s

All 10 of us.

[worn smelt]

lmao

[royal pier]

I do sometimes make use of the super winch yeet.

[placid slate]

Bro I throw sledge heavies off cliffs for fun, I'm not honourable in the slightest

[worn smelt]

youre nuts for that

[royal pier]

I've been having good success with spear as of late.

Or at least funny moments.

[worn smelt]

pinata moment

[placid slate]

Spear is the ultimate cyber bullying weapon because of all its jank

Throw people off cliffs, kill them through walls, smack revive trophies into a corner and cover them up

Probably does more emotional damage than physical

[royal pier]

(Insert Art of War quote here)

The ttks are typically fine for Light and Medium people just don't use the spin.

[placid slate]

"Kill an enemy, they respawn. Make the enemy smash their keyboard, they can't play"

[royal pier]

I need to try to make use of the Quick Melee into triple spin after winch vs Heavy.

I'm used to having to do a regular stab.

[placid slate]

I'd said m1 would be more effective since the heavy is gonna try back up

Only would really work if they are hugging you or within slide distance

Especially since gadget cancel got patched

[royal pier]

Well the QM is near-instant and you can keep in range with jumps like you see for a moment in the one clip.

This is specifically after landing Winch.

[placid slate]

Yea that makes more sense

[royal pier]

With Goo Gun you might as well go Goo-stab-goo-spin if they aren't running.

[placid slate]

Haven't used goo gun on spear ever since the no regs denied me a team wipe

[royal pier]

A big part of me wanting to add headstabs is that 95 dmg makes Heavy much cleaner to fight.

[placid slate]

They'd probably have to rework lunge so it doesn't lock onto center of mass if headshots were added

[royal pier]

I just kinda want lunge gone. Just have attacks always carry you forward a little if you're moving forward all the time.

Remove the wonky-ass enemy detection system.

Consistency is key, and this game lacks it on many fronts.

[upbeat loom]

wow

[sand monolith]

@spice oxide

[shell sonnet]

i love ambushing a team and smacking all of them
gives speer some interesting depth

ive been thinking of skins
and duh, a medieval poleaxe would go hard

but something else ive been thinking about is maybe something similar to the storm spear from terraria (at least based on vibes)
the speer tip being something twisted, woven into itself like a plant, with branches going out to the side (overall made out of metals, with maybe a gem in there)
and while over the top, a slight electric effect to the m2 aoe attack would and sparks around the tip could be really cool

[still geyser]

Nerf Shotgun Range. In no world does it make sense for a shotgun to 1-2 shot you at medium range

[sand monolith]

Which shotgun

[still geyser]

Heavy SA12 and Cerberus

[sand monolith]

Cerberus I agree but sa12 just got nerfed pretty bad

[still geyser]

srr KS 23 i meant

[shell sonnet]

which update was that again?

[sand monolith]

Oh that’s a slug shotgun it’s meant to have better range. But it only shoots one big projectile

[shell sonnet]

not specifically, just roughly how far back

[sand monolith]

6.0

[shell sonnet]

oh yeah, mustve missed it, mb, ty

[sand monolith]

All good

[light moss]

Buff Minigun.

[sand monolith]

@dapper marten

[dapper marten]

Buff Minigun

[junior plaza]

Why

[junior plaza]

Why

The Minigun does what it was disegined to do, shred anything close and shuck at long range. Than have a long reload to balance and slow movement speed so you don’t run and gun it. Over all the mini guns pretty balanced even with it’s subpar damage being made up with high fire rate

[royal pier]

Even post buff KS-23 damage fall off rarely changes shots to kill.

[dapper marten]

Buff Minigun

[shell sonnet]

yknow, the more i think about it
my gut feeling tells me to leave minigun unchanged

but back when taser disallowed ads, being forced into rng spread was one of my main arguments for a nerf
since minigun is always forced into spread, it might be better if it got its spread buffed (and and its other values adjusted around it)...

[junior plaza]

I say it’s perfectectly over powered being balanced

[sand monolith]

It’s not bad it just needs to be more consistent up to like 10m

Minigun sometimes just doesn’t hit the target even if you’re dead center up close

[junior plaza]

I could agree with that

[royal pier]

One small, easy, improvement that could be done for minigun is have the pre-spooling last longer. This would mean you can be a little bit more mobile and not have so long before you can start firing again, but still have the mechanic matter.

[sand monolith]

[dapper marten]

That statement makes absolutely no sense.

And also you actively agree with the buff i want so yknow

[royal pier]

Like 4 seconds before it completely comes back to a standstill.

[junior plaza]

It’s overpowers with potential close range damage but bad while moving and long range the only change I would make is better close range that is what I mean

[royal pier]

Being able to spool up, sprint into the fight, and fire after like a half second delay instead of the current, like, 2 seconds (idk the actual numbers) spool up.

Still requires engaging with the core mechanic, but it's far less demanding.

I'd still prefer it not have bloom, have slow moving projectiles, and less harsh damage drop-off.

It being a mostly close range spray cannon with heavy RNG due to bloom feels lame. I'd rather have to lead shots and be accurate.

[distant verge]

Than don't use a minigun, it's a gimmick weapon meant to be used differently from other firearms. Try the lmg, you'll have more fun that way.

[royal pier]

It's not that different than other options, though.

My suggestion would make it significantly different.

There are no full auto projectile based weapons atm.

Current minigun feels like a hipfire LMG with higher RPM and a larger mag.

[distant verge]

Than suggest a new weapon with your specific tailored requests, it has a good spot where it is.

[royal pier]

Heavy also has plenty of close range options. I'm fine with that, but I don't see an issue with Heavy having something solid at mid range if it requires leading shots.

[royal pier]

My suggestion is way closer to the actual "fantasy" of the minigun than what's in the game.

When I think minigun, I don't think exclusively close range.

[distant verge]

How slow are you suggesting to make the projectiles?

[royal pier]

Probably a bit slower or matching the KS-23. Whichever feels more balanced.

Can't know without hands on what would feel the best.

With the capacity and RoF, they could probably go pretty slow and it would still be usable.

I wouldn't mind getting mowed down at mid range if I knew the user read my movements like a book.

Being more mid range also better fits how slow it makes you. Being slow up close just gives the enemy free headshots.

Every time I've faced a minigun with the M60 or ShAK-50 it's a pretty easy win because I'm more mobile and their head is an easy target.

[distant verge]

Oh thank fuk. I thought you wanted to make it basically as slow as the throwing knives or even worse the nade launcher.

Yeah that doesn't seem so bad

I still think the bullet spread should stay about the same though, I like it where it is at, but I understand the idea that it should kill from further away, I think than that it probably just shouldn't have any damage fall off.

[royal pier]

Just slow, not slooooooooow lol.

Although I find TK easier to lead because it requires a fairly significant gap.

KS-23 at like 5-10m is a weird case of only having to leads a tiiiiinnnny bit.

I doubt they're willing to do that, though.

I'd settle for the spooling taking longer to slow down and a little faster destruction.

[distant verge]

Faster destruction for sure, as it stands without already being wound up it takes over double the time of the KS and after winding up it takes 75% more time.

[acoustic swallow]

Anyone got the medium build meta for TDM?

[distant verge]

No clue bud, only meta I'm aware of is sword light, as for medium not sure, maybe ask⚡┇the-finals-chat since more people talk there specifically you will likely get a better answer than if you ask here.

[acoustic swallow]

Appreciate you ^^

[final geyser]

PLEASE BUFF SPEAR ITS JUST WORSE SLEDGE IN EVERY WAY

[slow linden]

Rework it,buffing it would make it less unique,make it throwable,remove the spin,keep the basic attack combo but fix the hit reg

[placid slate]

Can sledge throw a man off a cliff? No

[placid slate]

Bro you said buffing it would make it less unique then you literally want to turn it into another version of throwing knives

And besides, there is zero reason you need to remove the spin to add a throw, there are plenty of unmapped buttons on melee weapons

[slow linden]

It wouldn't be like the throwing knives,you'd get one throw and either need to retrieve it or endure a cooldown

[placid slate]

So make the weapon worse?

Straight up can't attack if it lodges into a person

[slow linden]

Is 140 to the body 300 to the head worse?

[placid slate]

Yes, because you'd have no weapon

[slow linden]

It'd be like 5 seconds

[placid slate]

What is the average ttk for most guns?

Like less than 2 seconds on heavy

[slow linden]

I'm aware

[placid slate]

Also, the throw could also just be added to a different button rather than straight up removing a core feature of the weapon

[slow linden]

You're not supposed to just spam alt attacks,spear in its current state may not be good but it's annoying for other melees to fight

[tulip basin]

does anyone know if the sights have different zoom levels

[slow linden]

And it's useless against ranged

[placid slate]

Should we nerf guns because melee users find them annoying?

[placid slate]

That's literally every melee minus the dual blades by pure technicality

[slow linden]

No,making it throwable would be a buff,maybe no cooldown,more of a charge,kind of like the bow

[placid slate]

The spear is designed as an aoe weapon and you want to remove the aoe from it

Just make a new weapon if you want another throwable object weapon

There is literally no harm in making it a separate weapon

[slow linden]

The spin doesn't fit,doesn't feel right to use

[placid slate]

That's literally just personal preference bro

Besides if you don't want people to spam it, just make it 1 spin per input

[slow linden]

Spears aren't meant to be spun,flails are

[placid slate]

It's actively better to do 1 or two that to do all 3

[placid slate]

Sir the spear is a pike, its not meant to be thrown either

[slow linden]

It'd be better thrown than spun

[radiant orbit]

I hate the spin

[placid slate]

It's too long bro, shits like 8 feet tall

Minor correct: around 7 feet 6 inches

[slow linden]

Spears are tools of precision,not area damage

You want a spin weapon give heavy a chain to spin around or something

[placid slate]

Bro just make a new weapon if you want to throw shit at people bro

[slow linden]

Give light a whip

[placid slate]

That would be funny actually

[slow linden]

I want to throw spears and spear in it's current state would be horrible to fight if they straight up buffed it

[placid slate]

Then make a new weapon, like javelins or some shit

Also what buffs do you think would make the spear cancer btw?

[slow linden]

Spear literally has a javelin skin

[placid slate]

I think they cant really fo damage buffs without causing some issues since all the breakpoints leave like 5vhp

[slow linden]

If you just flat up it's damage it would be really aids

[placid slate]

Could just do an official spin cancel and call it a day

[slow linden]

Spin is the problem of the weapon,when used correctly it's downright oppressive and it really doesn't take much thought to use effectively

It completely counters most other melees too

[placid slate]

I mean a bunch of things do as well but I don't see them copping any nerfs because of it. They should try fix the riot shield hitbox do they can bishop the spin, dual blades cab deflect it although they should improve the hit detection for that too. Sledge has a pretty even ttk with spear so it kinda comes down to who outsmarts who

[slow linden]

I think duel blades should deflect all projectiles and bullets

[placid slate]

Bullets already do, projectiles yea, returning a cl40 shot would be the funniest shit

[slow linden]

Grenades,arrows,their only counter should be other melees(which they don't even struggle against their combo feels so nice) and flamethrower,I think flamethrower shooting through block and deflect is fine

I do however want them to rework the flamethrower to actually shoot napalm that leaves fire on surfaces and if they were to do that I'd see no need for it to go through riot shield

[placid slate]

I think the 3rd attack on the dual blades should be removed, would make it feel more fluid

[slow linden]

Not removed,just make it cancelable

[placid slate]

Why would you ever willingly do the 3rd attack

[slow linden]

Because it's great and I actually like combos

[obsidian nexus]

How long do u want to want with the sword rework, like cmon

[placid slate]

Combos are cool but I think its better when the user gets to make the combo rather than the game forcing it

Could go for a 3rd option and make it occur when you hold down left click?

More control, let's you create actual combos

[slow linden]

Make the third hit be the first hit when chained from the deflect

[placid slate]

Holding left click could actually be used on alot of melees if they every wanted to add more attacks to them actually

[slow linden]

Dagger was perfect they just need to unnerf it

As a heavy main the nerfs to dagger and cloak have crippled a dynamic heavy and light once had

[robust bolt]

Let’s talk about the fact that the stun gun is still unavailable

[slow linden]

It should stay that way and so should winch tbh

As a heavy main winch is annoying

[robust bolt]

Nah tbh it was fun using it

[slow linden]

It was boring and easy kills,I know this because I used it,it took all strategy out of the class and not running it was basically throwing

Defib should go too tbh after the nerf it doesn't really help unless they're running heal beam because they'll revive you mid fight and get you farmed 90% of the time

[cunning wyvern]

WHERE IS THE UPDATE THAT LETS YOU THROW THE SPEAR ITS ALMOST BEEN TWO YEARS

[slow linden]

YES

Make one of these like that minigun guy did (I'm terrible at remembering names I'm sorry if you're watching)

[cunning wyvern]

👌

[unkempt pilot]

EMBARK

BUFF THE MINIGUN AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

IM WILLING TO TRADE MY SOUL TO MAKE IT SPIN FASTER PLS

RAAAAAH

[eager wren]

ADD AN AIRSTRIKE

[unkempt pilot]

YEAAAAAH

AND ADD A HAMMER OF DAWN FOR HEAVY

[royal flicker]

I wonder how long till we see a just fists weapon... Probably just some boxing gloves

[unkempt pilot]

didnt think of something like that but now i need it

so back to yapping

EMBAAAAAARK, ADD BOXING GLOVES AS A WEAPON

ADD AN ELECTRIC BATON FOR MEDIUM THAT GLITCH ENEMIES

ALSO ADD A THROWING AXE FOR HEAVY OR LIGHT

AND MY SOUL IS YOURSS

[timid saffron]

Just add a bastard sword and I'm chilling

[slow linden]

Give heavy the Euclid C finder

[drowsy trout]

Give heavy a kiss on the forehead he’s trying his best

[rustic plaza]

What's the best anti light, medium loadout?

[tranquil rose]

Glitch mine basically nulifiess both lights specs, so if they're problem is good to take them

And good aim, you will be good to go lol

[rustic plaza]

Mine not nade? I want to attack dem

[tranquil rose]

Medium doesnt have glitch nade, only glitch mine :c

[rustic plaza]

dont remind me 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

[tranquil rose]

You will win most trades if they try to attack you directly, as long as you land your shots

[polar cedar]

specialization tierlist

[tawdry breach]

this is wrong grapple is better than dash 100%

the vertical movement and the fact it can basicly replace dash when used right is crazy

[polar cedar]

true, I think dash is better but I'll bump it up to low A tier

[robust bolt]

Goo gun F

But if your good with it C

[polar cedar]

weapon tierlist (yes I put sword and repeater above the cerberus)

[calm wasp]

is the shak12 that good?

[frank wren]

the repeater is pretty good against lights and mediums, but imo it falls off against heavies

i think they should buff the repeater damage to 88 so it can 4sk heavies, but make it projectile instead of hitscan, since 45/70 isnt particularly known for its velocity

[mystic nimbus]

[fleet imp]

https://tenor.com/view/pig-beat-up-pig-getting-beat-up-gif-525832833467795373

[mystic nimbus]

like at least do it right and put the weapons in their right place

[dapper bear]

https://tenor.com/view/aneurysm-hhhhomeboyyyy-kings-dark-tidings-saga-by-kel-kade-reaperleviathan-head-explode-gif-21578105

[mystic nimbus]

nvm i didn't know that the 3rd one means what it means

[dapper bear]

3rd what?

[mystic nimbus]

3rd category

[dapper bear]

from the top or bottem

[mystic nimbus]

top

[dapper bear]

The KKK?

[mystic nimbus]

@plush harbor 💀

[dapper bear]

bro did you not know the actual name of the band?

[mystic nimbus]

the band 😭

[mystic nimbus]

but ye i didn't know it's an abbreviation i thought they're called that

[dapper bear]

you know classic songs like run 🥷 run

[mystic nimbus]

[dapper bear]

what would you change hmm?

[mystic nimbus]

swap 2nd category with 3rd

[dapper bear]

nah

[sage citrus]

It's actually the .30-30 repeater
Not the .45/70 sadly

[frank wren]

whatt

[sage citrus]

The shak .50 is very good.

[frank wren]

if its .30-30 it would hardly be any more powerful than a 7.62x39

[twin rain]

Nzi bum

[sage citrus]

Yea i found it weird too cause I thought it was the .45/70 version but no it's the .30-30 version.

[rustic plaza]

what is the absolute chillest loadout that still slaps a bit, light gets too stressful for me.

[sage citrus]

Yea it's the .30-30
Cause it has 8 rounds

If it was chambered in .45/70 it would have less rounds

Bigger the bullet
The less rounds you have

[rustic plaza]

I still haven't tried that I dont ever see heavies use that to be honest but I think it has high damage

[rustic plaza]

I have such a hard time hitting with the XP54

[sage citrus]

Yea body shots do a lot of damage and the gun kills lights quick.

[rustic plaza]

then i need to try it

[sage citrus]

Try going for chest or headshots you'll be good at melting healthbars

The skins on it are good.
But could be better.

[scenic marsh]

I like the gunplay

[abstract kestrel]

Same order, but only A and S tiers, there's really no B tier spec

[rustic plaza]

will have to do more later but omg that was fun blasting lights, and more relaxed
Mesh + shak + barricade + rpg + lockbolt

[sage citrus]

Charge + Slam is pretty good with the Shak .50

[rustic plaza]

I'll have to test it out, mesh saves me a lot but I can never get away from anything cuz heavy speed

[foggy snow]

copy-pasting my thoughts on the minigun from #heavy-build-main

[near scroll]

goo gun best spec in the game

[weary pagoda]

Just get the scope that looks like a curl and it's only connected to the gun by the left of it

[karmic nacelle]

calling that a scope hurts my head

[slate stream]

Hey yolks
Soo, does anybody know how to handle M1887 to make it shoot faster?

[near scroll]

what? model's fire rate is capped, and they removed anim cancels so there's no way to make it shoot faster as far as i know

[deep mason]

Yea most people just like to solo all players with minigun and whine and complain,it's cause they r not communicating with team mates

[mystic nimbus]

@median olive

https://tenor.com/view/choose-choice-woke-up-chose-gif-24134590

[dapper bear]

Brue it's a joke

[mystic nimbus]

goodbye

[median olive]

Not a good one

[dapper bear]

Okay

[mystic nimbus]

enjoy the 30days timeout now

[bitter surge]

How come light has a better destructive gadgets than the heavy ?

[solemn light]

If we ever get a medieval season, can we give heavy a big matchstick gun for a gadget, like an RPG alternative

No idea what it would do, but I think it'll be cool

Similar to this, but not exactly. Maybe more like ye olde broomstick

You only realise how big these are when you see them in person lol

[near scroll]

because embark insists on giving heavy's destructive gadgets good damage too. if C4 didnt do up to 100+dmg or however much it does getting 2 charges could be talked about

[wide wave]

i am the grand wizard man🗣️

btw any tips on how to master the recoil on the akm/fcar?

[gusty rock]

ARN-220 is 🤮

[tawdry breach]

Why isn’t sword meta if so many people complain about it

Like someone said they see one in every 4 games and it’s so annoying but why don’t more people play it then making more counters or something

[lilac solstice]

welcome to the finals discord where people will whine about anything and everything

[near scroll]

people think it's op but it's not, just annoying
and that explains why so many people complain about sword yet it is underplayed and often underperforming at higher levels

[tawdry breach]

Wait do you actually play grapple sword

I do and no one else does from what I’ve seen

Also yeah just play it or stop complaining people

[near scroll]

i don't play it much in ranked cuz it doesn't fit the teamcomp we run but yea in WT and QC its probs my most played this season lol

[tawdry breach]

Nice I’ve kinda just mained it for the speed and verticality for a lot of maps it kinda falls of in Mexico but it’s good on Monaco and Kyoto

[near scroll]

it's quite interesting imo cuz dash sword turns the user into a 1v3 machine where mechanical outplays are your bread and butter whereas grapple sword makes it much more of a thinking man's loadout where setting up advantageous engages is your main goal

[tawdry breach]

I agree dash is better for 1v3 or outnumbered odds but if your team can stay alive long enough for you to get all the way to the right position grapple works better

I also feel like I can hit more targets with grapple because it can be used as a really long dash

[half lotus]

Chat, best scope for Repeater?

[summer basin]

whats the best gadgets for model 1887

[distant verge]

Damages an area in front of them and creates a small smokescreen, it has a small spark of fire though so it blows up gas and puts out fire.

[obsidian nexus]

as a CL40 player, my 3rd most used gun in this game. it might just be a little too oppresive rn. 60cm max dmg range is criminal.

[analog nimbus]

Whatever works

[ashen hawk]

gimme my terminid invasion event.

[near scroll]

make spear spin only 2 hits pwetty please

well actually by itself idk how much it'd fix lol but at least its a start

[tight socket]

@ebon path they have specific times where they buff and nerf weapons all in one go and thats coming up soon

[ebon path]

@tight socket cool maybe theyll release another version of Vegas or any other map that doesnt need fixing expect Kyoto I'm glad youre content waiting 90 days for the same map that played fine anyways

[tight socket]

me personally idgaf about the maps

[trim cloud]

wats the best wepon for light??

[tight socket]

whats ur playstyle

[trim cloud]

run arraound

[tight socket]

better off with the xp or the arn but if u wanna go close range m11

[trim cloud]

okkk ty man

[ebon path]

@tight socket also everything I mentioned in my post originates from season 3 if things from then haven't been fixed by now I really don't know how long its gonna take presumably never thats why it would be nice for them to actually let us know what theyre working on

[solemn light]

YES

[final geyser]

Day of asking for a Spear buff:
Among many of the Spear’s problems, one of the most noticeable when using it is it's shockingly low DPS. Here is a list of guns that can out TTK the spear in Melee range while also being able to do damage from range.

Spear:
Light - Medium - Heavy
1.80s - 2.50s- 3.20s

Heavy v Heavy:
.50 Akimbos: 1.83 > 3.2
Lewis Gun: 1.6 > 3.2
M60: 1.6 > 3.2
KS-23: 2.47 > 3.2
SA1216: .80 > 3.2
SHAK-50: 1.57 > 3.2
MGL32: 2.67 > 3.2

Medium v Heavy:
AKM: 1.7 > 2.5
CL-40: 2.3 > 2.5
FCAR: 1.4 > 2.5
Model 1887: 1.6 > 2.5
R .357: 1.6 > 2.5
Pike-556: 2.1 > 2.5
Cerberus-12: 1.8 > 2.5

Light v Heavy:
93R: 1.64 > 1.8
V9S: 1.33 > 1.8
M11: 1.26 > 1.8
XP-54: 1.48 > 1.8
LH1: 1.5 > 1.8
SH1900: .75 > 1.8
M26 Matter: 1.41 > 1.8

Note: These damage numbers come from patch 1.5.5 and takes into account only body shot numbers. The spear numbers come from its M1 standard attack, not the spin. I just wanted to illuminate that even when Spear has the first shot on another player, how often they lose. Thank yall embark for continuing to do an amazing job on my favorite game and please consider buffing the spear in any capacity!

[distant verge]

So the finals has 4 main element based interactions;
Goo [Fortafies]
Fire [Destroys goo and gas]
Gas [Damages over large area]
Smoke [Puts out fire and lowers visibility]
For Goo we have; Goo gun, Goo grenade
For Fire; Flamethrower, Pyro nade, Pyro mine, Thermal bore
For Gas; Gas nade, Gas mine
For smoke; Gas nade
(+arena grabables)
Anyone have any interesting ideas for more or is everyone fine leaving it how it is for the games life?

[lilac fiber]

the official finals Discord complain pipe line is:
1 get on the game
2 play a match
3 get killed by whatever annoying playstyle/gadet
4 after match get onto the discord and complain
5 optional: repeat

[verbal vale]

Buff arn

[near scroll]

what would you like sir, my dad works at embark

[void harbor]

My dad owns Roblox ahh

[wet flume]

Oh yeah well mine owns epic games

[dreamy sage]

A gasbore gadget, borrows into wall and injects a big gas cloud into the other side of said wall. Would be sweet for busting open fortified rooms imo.

[ashen isle]

that sounds really cool but wouldnt it just make thermal bore completely useless?

[distant verge]

Not even close

[dreamy sage]

It would still keep the wall intact unlike the thermal bore. Meaning it can also be used defensively, extra layer of defence on the outside of your turtle nest.

[distant verge]

Thermal bore has arena destruction and blows up gas getting rid of it, if anything it would make the thermal bore even more useful since it could remove the gas made by the bore, also it would probably be a medium gadget not a light gadget.

Light gadget, gas mask, turn it on and off like thermal vision, makes you immune to poison for a small time.

Actually never mind, that's kinda dumb. Makes more sense to just have Pyro nades

[dreamy sage]

I was about to say, any immunity to one if the main damage types can become very iffy to balance. But I like where you where going with it!

[visual geyser]

What are the pros and cons of the akm and fcar?

[edgy granite]

I’m having trouble getting used to the cb repeater any tips

[shut bane]

Akm has more ammo but more recoil, fcar has less ammo but little recoil and a much easier pattern for control, fcar also does a bit more damage if you can beam well enough

[dapper marten]

Im less offended you forgot my name.

More offended you used such an outdated version.

[slow linden]

Jesus I've been trying to catch up my bad

[dapper marten]

We have officially hit the terminal point chat. The middle is getting hard to read

[distant verge]

Just some ideas of my own and others that I think are good ideas.
Light;
Syringe [Gadget] instant heal for 75 health, can be used on others, while it's used you can't sprint, meant for outside combat.
Drone [specialization] small gun good for getting rid of mines proximity sensors and such, easily destroyed.
Ice picks [weapon] alt fire climbs walls about 25-35% faster than ladders and a little slower than zipline, jumping launches you off the wall, standard attack deals about the same as dagger with slightly faster attack speed.
Medium;
Bayonet rifle [Weapon]
Drone [Specialization] More of a moving platform with a gun, hold the Specialization button to deploy and retrieve it, tapping the button commands the Drone to move where you were looking, if you command it to go to an enemy it will move closer then shoot. You can place small items like mines and turrets on it, it does take friendly fire though. Up to 3 people can fit on top of it but they would have to stand right next to each other.
Healing platform [Gadget] takes a while to place but quick to pick up. Heals slowly in small area, heals other teams if they stand on it. Good for platform defense (power shift), fortifying locations, and for stealing through poison.
Gas bore [Gadget] borrows into wall and injects a gas cloud into the other side of said wall.
Heavy;
Mesh barricade [gadget] deploys a small mine shaped object that makes a mesh shield above it, blocks enemy bullets but you can shoot through it. Easy to walk through, the mesh shield can break but will regen unless the projector is broken good for bullets, bad for melee or explosions.
Shout [Specialization] high knock back in area around, deals enough damage to set off mines.
Health Drink [Specialization] can't sprint while using and heals about as fast as the heal gun.
Matchstick gun [Gadget] Damages an area in front of them and creates a small smokescreen, it has a small spark of fire though so it blows up gas and puts out fire.

Ran into word limit but with the ice picks if you alt fire on an enemy it launches you up about half as much as medium launch pad.

I was expecting some kind of response, there are like what... 500,000 people in this server?

[autumn night]

What is this? Holy cow that's wild to look at!

[distant verge]

A compilation of a bunch of minigun critiques.

[dapper marten]

With any luck, worth the three weeks ive spent on it.

[autumn night]

Very unique. props to ya my guy!

[muted halo]

its good but famas is better right now

[slow linden]

I fuck with it

[calm wasp]

shak 50 still best heavy weapon?

[slow linden]

3 people at any given time are in weapons-gadgets and all of them are sleeping

[royal pier]

Spear's spin can be canceled by simply opening the radial wheel. I don't use it, though, because with my luck that'll get me banned instead of all the sword exploiters.

[distant verge]

That's actually super helpful, thanks for the info.

[brittle yoke]

isnt that like a fake cancel though, you’re still slow and cant attack during what would be the animation

[royal pier]

Not slow for that long tho. Can use gadgets/spec too.

[slow linden]

Replace spin with a throw

[royal pier]

No

[slow linden]

It's bad and unfitting

[royal pier]

I like it, I'd just rather only have the two spins for less commitment. Also the third spin is a little slow.

[slow linden]

I have the same complaint about the third hit on the duel blade combo

[royal pier]

Yeah it's basically worthless. Better to just quick melee and reset the combo.

[slow linden]

The spin is inherently flawed however

Also the hit reg on the spears basic is kinda ass

[royal pier]

It's only buggy in certain situations now, mostly involving goo.

I'd say it's reliable like 95% of the time now on the spin.

[slow linden]

They need to fix the goo guns hit reg too I shoot through people half the time

[royal pier]

Yeah it sucks. Making the hitbox bigger would help maybe.

[slow linden]

That's why flamethrower is so good with it,don't need to hit them,just around them or where they will be

The hit reg is atrocious

[royal pier]

Would make it annoying in other situations possibly. Still seems worthwhile.

[royal pier]

I find it often has a lingering hitbox that blocks the fire.

[slow linden]

It's better for trapping,only works aggressively in cramped spaces or as a counter to other flamethrower users

[covert totem]

Was glitch mine changed during the update

[slow linden]

Nah it's just as good as ever,should stay that way tbh

[covert totem]

I was wondering because the detection radius on glitch mine and proximity alarm feel smaller

[slow linden]

I dunno maybe? Apparently it randomly doubles

[covert totem]

I found out what was wrong when I quick start the game my traps distance gets cut in half it’s that or when I fresh start the game it doubles

[slow linden]

Yeah it's kinda weird

[late pagoda]

I feel like there should be two glitch mines, what do ya'll think?

or medium should get glitch nade

to counter lockbolt and sword lights and stuff like that

[slow linden]

I agree

[late pagoda]

w

[slow linden]

Glitch nades not so much

[late pagoda]

thats fair

It was a backup option

[slow linden]

Glitch mines are just better,and you can demat them down to teams before a push

[late pagoda]

I love my glitches, just hate that I have to wait to place the second

[slow linden]

As a heavy main Glitch mines help me a lot

[summer basin]

what do you think the best heavy gadgets for 50. Akimbo are?

[slow linden]

Spec you're gonna want goo gun or cns and you're gonna want rpg,barricade and dome shield

[royal pier]

The fact that Riot Shield can block and not get flashed is super slept on.

[sand monolith]

hopefully never

[opaque wolf]

no more ARs, p90 for medium though 👀

[sand monolith]

gl ever balancing an smg for medium

[slow linden]

Oh it's great it's only shortcoming is the awful hit reg melee has

[bitter surge]

Today we’re probably gonna get some balance changes, If we get.. what do you think ?

[mystic nimbus]

sword nerf before cb01 and cerb nerf gonna be wild

[polar trout]

Yeah they're historically really slow at balancing med

[coral root]

Re-buff grapple speed and jump pad height or nerf dash

[slender bear]

I know effectively one shooting lights isn't fair, but sword doesn't have long ranged options and it feels like a toss up as to whether you can even beat ranged weapons. I'm all for a sword nerf, but I feel like they should at least make sure the SH1900 doesn't one shot light either

[calm wasp]

is the shak 50 completely reliant on low ping?

feels like it

[shut bane]

Lights absolutely have long ranged weapons wdym

[twin rain]

Buff the akm man

[slender bear]

But how far can the sword reach?

[shut bane]

Pretty far, not really meant to be that far but a decent lunge is what makes it unique

[slender bear]

That's fair. I just get salty whenever a shotgun one taps me while on sword. If you're even in range to hit a sh1900 player with sword, they can one tap. At least sword has wind up, still broken, but SH1900 is the hardest light melee counter I can think of

[opaque wolf]

its really fun

[rustic plaza]

I'm kind of loving tanking the heavy, The shack fifty I feel like I have to aim or I don't get any hits

[frank wren]

ngl i kinda want the akm to get nerfed, its so boring to use right now. make it 30rds and increase the recoil so it actually feels like 7.62x39

[rustic plaza]

NO

[frank wren]

yes

[rustic plaza]

dont make me leave you on read

[frank wren]

the ars and smgs in this game take no skill to use, they're boring. i want to use the akm and have fun

[opaque wolf]

you want it to be fun by making it worse and harder to use?

[sacred scroll]

How do you even define "fun to use" on a basic automatic rifle

[frank wren]

it has hardly any recoil, its a point and click adventure

[sacred scroll]

Does every automatic weapon need to have high recoil to be "fun to use"?

And how do you define "high recoil"? Is your recoil control just way above the average player? Or is the integrated recoil damping in the game too strong?

[ornate scaffold]

As a console stick player I say the recoil in this game is probably why it isn't doing great in number of players. Basically no full auto weapon feels good to use past 5-10m.

[placid slate]

None of the medium ars really have any actual recoil, even the fcar only had some amount for 2 bullets

[ornate scaffold]

Eehh

[ornate scaffold]

Post a clip of you beaming the dolls from range with them on controller and show your settings.

[placid slate]

Busy

[ornate scaffold]

I've played console shooters for 15 years. And I'm certain the unfriendlyness of the full auto weapons is holding this game back from what it could've been when it comes to console players.

[sly girder]

Even on MnK, it still feels weird trying to control the recoil while shooting moving targets

[ornate scaffold]

Kinda miss the days when everyone was using the same hardware. Then we always knew all the factors. Now it's all over the place.

Anyway, hoping for some balance changes today unlike last week. So sth happens at least. Game already starting to feel boring this season.

[sacred scroll]

The old Halo games had it down by making everyone move very slow and making engaging range really close

[weary pagoda]

Hear me out, nunchucks

[untold current]

LOL give heavy some nunchucks

[weary pagoda]

Nah its more of a medium thing I recon

[kindred hemlock]

its a different game

halo infinite is also free to play

medium getting a BAR or tommy would be cool

[opaque wolf]

i just want a high ammo suppression gun for medium, which is why the p90 would be perfect

[surreal zodiac]

some smg would also be cool,
light class got an ar so if medium could get something like a high dmg close range smg then very nice

or another projectile weapon

[kindred hemlock]

medium glock with a switch

[surreal zodiac]

im dreaming of every fps game having titanfall's EPG1 in it, sorry

[opaque wolf]

medium 1911 or five seven would be sick

[surreal zodiac]

oh yusss

[opaque wolf]

would love a semi auto pistol for medium

[surreal zodiac]

1911 is one of my favourite handguns because it looks so iconic and cool

[kindred hemlock]

medium draco with a drum

[opaque wolf]

just whatever they do no more marksmen rifles for medium

[near scroll]

BAR for heavy no? that way M60 & ShAK for close range, Lewis and BAR for mid-long range

[surreal zodiac]

yeah, sniping is boooooring!!! imagine sitting at the other side of the map ur entire life! thats some powershift player stuff

[surreal zodiac]

could be for medium also

[kindred hemlock]

heavy already has two lmgs so medium could have one. it would give medium a weapon with suppressive fire capability

[opaque wolf]

unless they made a single shot, projectile based 50 cal sniper for heavy.

[surreal zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/bfg50-phantom-forces-roblox-stylis-studios-pf-gif-20364903

funny to imagine a tank of the team sitting far away behind cover and sniping

buuuut the finals is all about playing the game however you want with ur own build and playstyle so i guess it could work :3

ooo i got an idea

this for the medium class

would be sick no?

hit me up embark dms open

[sage citrus]

HK416 or G36 would be Perfect for Medium

[sage citrus]

Give medium 2 of these and it'd be PEAK

[opaque wolf]

g36 would be interesting, hell if they wanted to do a weird gun they could do a g11 lol

[surreal zodiac]

oh i see
whats better than 2 barrels?
4??!!

might be an overkill tho

[sage citrus]

Or better yet why not just give medium dual 1911s? Cause heavy has 2 desert eagles why can't medium have 2 1911s?

Or hell why not give him him a Mosin? That'd be interesting

[near scroll]

yea but BAR only has 20 round mags right? and it has a very low rate of fire so it'd be like an FCAR for heavy kinda, but slower and more cumbersome of course

[pure plume]

Claim your ALFA ACTA "FINAL WARNING" Charm and 150 Multibucks to kick off the new season with a BANG!

Sign in to Embark ID and input the code below:

de0f5b0f-38ac-4c1a-b6c7-72d9de7f500f

[near scroll]

mosin for heavy now that medium has peter

[sage citrus]

Give heavy a Barrett M82A1 sniper rifle

[near scroll]

i feel like heavy would be the one class to not have any magnified scopes on their weapons which is why i'd rather give them an old bolt action with irons like mosin

[royal pier]

Witness "The Torpedo."

[surreal zodiac]

fire tornado

[tender bluff]

That’s literally great 😂

[shell sonnet]

Im wondering how we could expand on this tho

Only other idea i have for it, is to be used as remote trigger for medium gas mines if you dont want to run cl-40

How do we take this to the extreme?
Whats some jank we could pull

We need more gadgets, i want to create more jank interactions

Reminds me, has anyone found a way to consistently create loose goo blobs?

I might have an idea for it but so far i can only create them with gateway

[bitter surge]

Never mind xdd

[sacred cypress]

Give heavy a rail gun

[grim pasture]

heavy gets a guts sword. medium a whip. light should get a nerf

[shell sonnet]

ok, something to test

sometimes a steal can be interrupted when something like a building falls on the stealers head
does the same apply if goo falls on them?

potentially hard to test due to inconsistencies, but would be interesting to know

[grim pasture]

it interrupts if it blocks line of sight, if not it just bounces off and disintegrates

[shell sonnet]

no, its not just l.o.s.
ive had steals denied because something landed on my head without even visually getting close to the cashout
but it is really inconsistent sometimes

[grim pasture]

interesting. i think LOS is calculated from the head instead of the hand after the recent visual gun optic update. maybe the inconsistencies arise from this